Speaker 1creating joyous experiences is going to be really huge we we call it strategic joy you might have heard us say glimmers in the past micro moments of joy it's so important as a conversion tool to get consumers to spend time money energy with you in a world where there's endless choice because they want to feel something right sensorially they want to touch and feel and interact they want that human element and they want to have an escape you know from the difficulties of daily life and so the retail store becomes a social hub the retail store becomes an escapist nostalgic experience the retail hub becomes perhaps a place to forge friendships and meet people and have a coffee welcome to retail
Speaker 2gets real where we hear from retail's most fascinating leaders about the industry that impacts everyone everywhere every day i'm bill thorne from the national retail federation coming to you from nrf 2026 retail's really big show in new york city and on today's episode we're talking once again to cassandra napoli the head of marketing events and culture forecasting for wgsn we're going to talk to cassandra about the key emerging trends for the coming year and how retailers can future-proof their businesses cassandra welcome back to retail it's real
Speaker 1thank you thanks for
Speaker 2having me so this is becoming an annual event just like the big show and i can't think of any reason why we wouldn't do it again and again and again because it's very interesting i mean your background your knowledge your expertise and kind of looking forward and that's what we always need to do is look forward we can look at the now we can look at the new but we always got to look at the you know what's going to happen in the future so is there anything shocking and or surprising after we talked in 2025 that actually shook things up last year
Speaker 1i think the obvious is the tariffs oh tariffs yeah that kind of that
Speaker 2kind of shook things up
Speaker 1yeah indeed i almost felt like at the time you know when the pandemic had hit in 2020 was it shook everything up and that's not something you can necessarily plan for as a trend forecaster right you can take steps to you know future proof in times of uncertainty and that's things like scenario planning and foresight and using all these tools as insights into you know future proofing your business but tariffs felt similar on a smaller scale i totally agree cassandra i've been
Speaker 2talking about that it was like kind of we went through the pandemic yeah it was shocking we had to move and do things and pivot and plan in ways that we never have before and it's kind of a repeat of that to some degree i mean all of a sudden a core part of your business is being impacted in a very big way and so you know there were a lot of learnings from the pandemic do you think they were applied
Speaker 1this time around yeah i think people have learned to be more adaptable we call it um resilient adaptation at wjsen it's actually a key emotion we forecasted for 2027 so it's obviously hitting a bit earlier um but resilient adaptation is important because there are going to be lots of things that come up that you don't account for we live in a really volatile market geopolitically and you know every day it feels like there's something new almost and connecting in chaos and just the uncertainty and volatility of it all and i think it's a really important thing to do and i think it's a really important and i think it wasn't as large scale as the pandemic obviously you know the pandemic it changed how we work how we live how we play how we you know everything everything yeah but tariffs from a consumer lens really did change how they invest their time how they invest in brands what they can and cannot afford at the grocery store you know at every level of cost it it reoriented how they think um from a consumer lens and then obviously on the business side it it changed everything as you mentioned earlier and you know it's a really important thing to do and i think businesses had to be adaptable and figure out things along the way but i think the consumer element was what was most interesting to me because it reoriented how they prioritize their costs and and how they navigate life are they you know still willing to dine out you know going to work means maybe packing a lunch what does that do to local restaurants so all these things had knock-on effects to how we live our lives and that's really what the core of trend forecasting what i do is you know it's
Speaker 2interesting because you think so there was the pandemic obviously that changed kind of the the consumer psyche obviously well to your point it changed everything but before that it was the great recession so you had a great recession and coming out of the great recession it not only impacted the people that were paying the bills at the time but the children watching the people paying the bills and how they talked and how they acted and reacted so you kind of got this sense of a consumer that is a lot more strategic and thoughtful about their spend and that kind of went to their children
Speaker 1as well i think i was a child during the great the recession in 2008 in high school i noticed what was happening my sister was like core millennial so a core millennial graduated into that great recession so she inherited a terrible market no jobs that sort of thing and so i think that wired my brain as just a normal consumer like my consumer brain it wired it and it's interesting because i'm a consumer forecaster so i noticed that young people they're watching their parents during this time you know kids even people that i know that have and these kids are going to have different psyches to things like cost to volatility they're living in an uncertain time that's their that's their normal uncertainty is the is the certainty for that for young alpha today think about that what is that going to do to how they their relationships with brands their relationships with consumer other consumers how they forge friendships how they move into education will they go to college is it worth it so it has all this knock-on effects long term and i think that's what's going to be really exciting as a consumer forecaster to unpack i guess in the next 10 years or so is like what will this do to the alphys alpha psyche
Speaker 2the alphas dear lord are
Speaker 1we
Speaker 2already there
Speaker 1zero to 16 i'm not
Speaker 2ready for that all right so well let me ask you this question if it's going to
Speaker 1be alpha beta yeah so alphas are zero to 16 well 1 to 16 right now and betas have just started being born in 2025 there's this whole i mean in the presentation i gave today we have this idea of fragmented identities though so the idea is that there's no less consumer group that is 15 years spans anymore because of tech acceleration right that the pace of culture and the pace of technology are just too great to make it make sense that somebody born in 2025 and somebody born in 2040 which would technically be the betas right are going to have that much in common right at the same time we call it a trend tension at wgsn two things can be true at the same time so life stage you know it we're kind of looking at psychographics increasingly too so people that share life stage and share commonalities and interests might span multiple generations so a boomer and an alpha might have a lot in common actually based on how they view the internet and you know what their algorithm looks like or something like that so that's an interesting thing to unpack as well an element so demographics getting shorter but also demographics moving into like more important the psychographic the life stage because we call it lifestyle dipping young people dipping into lots of different things or older people too dipping into lots of different things in terms of lifestyle that might connect them to different generations that they aren't actually
Speaker 2a part of so interesting so let's set ai aside we'll get to it we always get to it but what are some emerging trends right now that retailers should be watching for
Speaker 1i think drivers more than trends are probably what retailers should be paying attention to and it's things like culture things like community we're living in a loneliness epidemic amongst young people right there's a happiness crisis young people have never been more lonely and that's really sad to think about but there's all this data that points to the fact that digital has actually made them less likely to forge in real life relationships they're not dating what yeah there's there's big big data happening around that where there's a lot of studies emerging talking about how young people just don't want to date they they don't date because there's this sort of element of they don't know how because they haven't forged actual relationships in real life
Speaker 2that is so a little sad yeah sad and it's it's proven i mean this is happening it's happening
Speaker 1it's it's not you know like trends are not monoliths right it's not happening everywhere it's not you know it's not every single person's experience there's nuance but generally um young people are dating less they're having less romantic relationships and they're generally more lonely they think that alphas will probably have more loneliness because of the reliance on technology technology is twofold it can be great it can be a little bit more lonely but it can be connect people over shared interests it can make the world seem really small at the same time it prevents in real life interaction at times and so third spaces fourth space is increasingly becoming very very important so third space is being spaces outside of work and home where we spend time to socialize coffee shops you know um hobby based places to hang out have emerged in new york quite a bit there's mahjong game spaces where you can go i i presented that today um i think it's called the green tile and i think it's called the green tile and i think it's called the green tile and club downtown and you can go and play mahjong with other people there's chess kind of groups there's run clubs there's all these sorts of things that are allowing people to come together and have something called collective effervescence which is that harmony of experience something in real life with
Speaker 2others that doesn't include bars i'm assuming
Speaker 1bars too but bars are actually so again zooming out young people are drinking less yeah so what the bars have had to evolve and adapt and so a lot of mock and in New York, we're starting to realize see the rise of daytime partying thrive quite a bit because wellness is so important that people don't want to stay up late because they want to do their skincare routines so you know the party starts at 7 instead of 11 now that is
Speaker 2fantastic well yeah there's no party in my house after after 11 that's for sure you know it is it is interesting and again you're looking to the future you're not looking at the now but what can be and what you expect it to be how can retailers kind of future-proof themselves to to you know address this new consumer or this new psyche that the consumer brings to their buying habits yeah i
Speaker 1think co-creation is an element here that's going to be increasingly important we've seen that throughout the last five ten years where like brands will have one-off experiences where they invite the customer in you know they can design something or there's contests to kind of create the best you know the best possible product for the customer and then you know you can design something where there's contests to kind of create the best possible product for the best possible product for the customer and then you know you can design something product and then they they go with that one who wins but really co-creation really forging emotional relationships with consumers is going to be incredibly important in a world where there's just so much choice and where attention is really the ultimate commodity i think also aligning with some of the key emotions that wjsn has forecasted so creating joyous experiences is going to be really huge we we call it strategic joy you might have heard us say glimmers in the past micro moments of joy it's so important as a conversion tool to get consumers to spend time money energy with you in a world where there's endless choice because they want to feel something right sensorially they want to touch and feel and interact they want that human element right and they want to have an escape uh you know from the from the difficulties of daily life and so the retail store becomes a social hub the retail store becomes an escapist nostalgic experience the retail hub becomes perhaps a place to forge friendships and meet people and have a coffee right all of these things kind of are driven by that appetite to feel joy and to feel you know maybe a bit of rest and rejuvenation
Speaker 2as well so it's the story we've talked in the past there are retailers that have established a retail approach to address certain people that have some commonalities that others may not have so shaping a community is it being that niche or can you do you have to think more broad no
Speaker 1we're actually saying niche is the new normal so niche interests are going to continue to thrive and i think it's driven by our algorithmic society that we live in right our algorithms all look different
Speaker 2so i knew we'd get
Speaker 1there but what i find cool might not be what another person you know of the same demographic as me finds cool right so you look at the youth culture today what what is determined as cool is so fragmented and there's so many different versions of cool and there's so many different versions of cool and there's so many different versions of cool your brand has to figure out what makes sense for your core customer and then go after that niche could be train spotting right i always give that example i've talked about it multiple times today where there was a guy on tiktok during the pandemic he was a train spotter everyone loved him it's you you know if i told my mom and dad about that they'd be like what what what train spotter who is that but because i'm immersed in that world i know him i value his opinion that sort of thing that's that's the psyche of young people in terms of their parasocial relationships and their social relationships and their social relationships and with these niche communities online and so if you can have organically and naturally tap into that in a way that makes sense for your brand it's not about tapping into multiple niches or being everywhere all at once it's kind of being a bit selective and going after um and adding value to the community because it's not just about noise anymore right we don't need more noise we want ping minimalism we want less noise yeah so it's about adding true value where you can show up in that makes sense so
Speaker 2playing off of that i mean how about in influencers i mean we oh we talk a lot about influencers and i'm just curious as to whether or not that continues to grow in importance or if it's kind of like they've found their peak and now they gotta look somewhere else i
Speaker 1think it's you know my bet would be that i've covered the creator economy for the last 10 years and i think it's growing and ever more important than ever i think in recent years we've seen creators become the ultimate tastemakers their brands in their own right honestly challenging some of the big brands and i think it's kind of like a little bit of a surprise to be able to talk about some of the big brands probably here today at this conference right retail of the future probably hinges on brands that are attached to communities identity you know um people like an alex earl right she's one of the biggest creators right now online she's got very very loyal fans you know if she had a brand that could translate those fans into passive customers um an active cost not even passive customers active customers that would translate to a lot of sales right and so that's one element i think we've seen it like politically if you zoom out and look at the political landscape this year or 2025 we saw creators becoming full-fledged broadcasters in the political sphere they were invited into the white house to be a part of a conference dedicated to the creator economy during the last administration uh i'm pretty sure they enlisted a young man to be like the voice of the the youth um from a content creator perspective at the the conventions that happened and i think that's a really good point i think that's a really good lead up to the election it's being taken very very seriously from a macro lens in that regard and then i think also like we're in an in a world where like ai i know we said we would get here but ai is coming and you know ai personalities are here and i think that there's a big aversion to it amongst many young people where they version yeah where they don't want to talk to somebody that doesn't exist they don't want to follow people that i mean some do right but i think that there's this sort of like emerging backlash towards it and i think that's a really good point and the human becomes the new luxury at that point right so human elements human connection human community i think that's why someone like alex earl tends to resonate because she is quite human she shows when she has a breakout and she's very down to earth about things and young people like that and so if that can become a brand that translates to sales and that takes some market share away from established brands that are here probably today so i think the future of retail is really a part a part of that is the creator economy and translating some of those personalities into massive you know brands in their own right all
Speaker 2right let's talk about artificial intelligence since we keep kind of winding our way back to artificial intelligence how in a futuristic or in a you know looking at the future and in retail how is ai going to change how we do business well
Speaker 1in many ways it's already starting i think what's interesting is that ai is kind of as unintelligent as it ever will be it will get more intelligent i gave the example earlier today when i was talking um where it's like you ever call a call center and you have an ai bot on there and they're talking to you and you're just like representative representative yeah zero zero zero zero and then it's like you are being recorded and it's like please let me speak to somebody and it's probably a bit more colorful than that right because you're just so angry at that moment that is just such a hiccup in the experience journey right if i order something and it doesn't show up or it's wrong and i want to talk to a human and i can't and the ai is not understanding me that is such a hiccup to my experience i don't want to be a part of that experience right i don't want to shop there anymore and so when we're in this sort of era where there are a lot of hiccups still it is not perfect i think in a world where you know ai comes into play and it aids our experience and it aids convenience and it becomes embedded for efficiency i think that's where it adds value i think we're in this sort of era where we're experimenting a lot of retailers and brands whether that's marketing or at retail and i think what's interesting at wgsn we we talk about the harmony of convergence meaning human intelligence and artificial intelligence have to be in the same you know experience otherwise it doesn't work and it's about using ai to aids you know efficiency and to make things easier you know on your teams for the consumer whatever it is but it's about still doubling down on the things that humans are really great at which is emotional resonance which is empathy which is creativity and i don't think that you will ever replicate any of that with a machine no i think going forward that harmony is going to be crucial for scale and survival all
Speaker 2right so ai it's the disruptor it's going to be around but there are other things i mean so if you look at 2026 what is the most fascinating thing or the disruption that you think is going to be you know at our
Speaker 1doorstep actually it's no tech at all so yeah i think a lot of young people have pioneered a movement offline um the great offline is what we called it really they are adopting dumb phones they are purposely opting out of the internet again not everyone this is not like all of gen z feels this way but it was a fringe movement a couple years ago and it's growing in prominence a lot of alphas recognize the threats that the internet is doing to them a lot of parents have influenced you know millennials are now aware of what growing up online means so they're trying to help their kids not have that same experience so it's i think as betas are born too so in the next couple of years they'll have perhaps screen free uh childhoods perhaps um because it is seen as a wellness tool you know to help mental wellness again combating that loneliness circling back to the beginning at the same time we're seeing more technology roll out where you know we're seeing more technology roll out where you know we're seeing more technology we're talking about screen fluid futures at wgsn where streaming becomes social media and social media creators become broadcast that are akin to streaming sites, you know, so we are moving into a world where two things exist at the same time. But my interest really is in the offline movement because it does feel really fresh. It feels exciting to me as a trend forecaster because it does feel like perhaps this is a larger shift where things might move in a different direction in the coming years. Not for everyone, not every day, perhaps. Maybe this is like, you know, detoxing once in a while. We're starting to see like it emerge in travel where there's resorts that don't allow cell phones. Take perhaps inspired by White Lotus. I don't know if you saw that, but like they take your phone there. That is a real thing that's happening. There's phone-free islands. I think it's off of Finland. There's like an island that doesn't allow your phone to exist. I need to live there. Yeah. So this is really interesting. It will have lifestyle impacts across lots of different industries. That is exciting.
Speaker 2The problem is that if, you know, I'm a boomer, I admit it, I'm a boomer, but I get so frustrated with when you're in a meeting and everybody's got a phone. I get very frustrated when I get sucked into that rabbit hole of, you know, watching reels or whatever and then trying to determine is that real or is it not real? I mean, and so the idea, it's kind of like alcohol-free January. I mean, we should just have like no electronics, you know, February. I mean, that would be absolutely glorious.
Speaker 1I think about going offline all the time, but my job is so intrinsically linked. Like culture is everything online. And so that's a big challenge. But yeah, I think actually we call that minor stones, like no drinking. What is it? Dry January. You know, that is like a sort of micro holiday almost that's emerged because people aren't hitting those typical life markers, millennials in particular. They're not getting married. They're not having kids at the same rates as their predecessors. So they need other things to celebrate. That's where dry January comes in. That's where running a half marathon comes in. That's where a divorce party comes into play, right? Like all these sorts of small, small little micro celebrations that are perhaps different from the mainstream. And I think, you know, celebrating a month offline would be a perfect opportunity to kind of challenge people. So as a boomer,
Speaker 2you would know that I'm primarily used the Facebook, I guess. But I did. I give myself a little pat on the back that I decided there was so much acrimony. There was so much going on during a period of time last fall. I was like, I can't take this anymore. I can't. So anyway, I went off for 35 days, 35. No, no Facebook took it off the phone, took it off the iPad. I just, I, and I told everybody, I said, I'm so sorry. I've just got to step away for a while. And having done that, I really don't, check Facebook that much anymore. I mean, it's, it's kind of like I've moved to a more elevated experience. You're
Speaker 1better than the rest of us now, but it kind of from a macro trend, it aligns with this appetite for wellness, self-care, slowing down, you know, rejuvenation, wellness being the ultimate driver. Every single brand seems to be hopping into the longevity and wellness space, helping to cope, helping consumers cope with, you know, disaster at all angles. Right. And so wellness becomes the new driver of, you know, what retailers need to latch onto. And I think going offline is a part of that. I think it, it aligns with the sort of respite and escapism into a physical space. It goes back to the hobbies. You know, I talked about, um, there's like hobby centers all over New York popping up and across the country too, but you know, Mahjong clubs and, uh, you know, third spaces and things of that nature, it all is intrinsically linked. And that's the point of trend forecasting. Everything we've talked about really does intertwine. Right. Intertwine with each other. And it is, it's all connected.
Speaker 2Um, biggest trend that nobody's talking about. Well, I'm going to say the biggest trend that nobody's talking about because I've never heard of it before, but I'm incredibly excited about it is the, you know, getting offline. That's, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1Yeah. I think, um, I think that's what's probably the biggest trend, but I will say some stuff that I think is exciting for this year, maybe since we've kind of already answered that is, I think the cultural calendar is so, is being paid attention to more, um, than ever before, because of those lifestyle dipping niche interests that are thriving. Right. So paying attention to the big moments, I think sports is going to have an absolute massive year, you know, the FIFA world cup, all of these things, um, you know, even looking ahead to, uh, the Olympics in 2028, which are going to be held in the U S it's going to be an opportunity for a lot of, you know, um, heritage brands to really thrive a lot of Patriot patriotic messaging to thrive looking at this year. alone, the semi-quincentennial, which is my favorite word to say that again. I was going
Speaker 2to say you did that. So incredible. It is rolled right up.
Speaker 1I say that word every single day at work.
Speaker 2I think the semi-quincentennial semi-quincentennial wow. 250th birthday of
Speaker 1America. I wasn't around for the 200th birthday in 76. I heard, you know, from all of my research, I hear it was a big time of celebration, a lot of patriotism, a lot of heritage brands are probably going to be rolling out a lot of like nostalgic, um, references to their past. A lot of archive mining will be taking place. Most likely. That's, that's interesting to kind of watch unfold set against a really, um, delicate and volatile geopolitical landscape and, you know, both happening at the same time. I think looking at some of the shows and the sort of franchises that are arising is really interesting. So GTA six, Grand Theft Auto is coming in. Finally in November, it said, you know, it was pushed back from June to June or May to November. Um, that's going to have a huge impact. So I think it's going to have a huge impact at retail and marketing culture, you know, music, all of these things, fashion in particular. And looking at some of the shows, you know, Netflix shows have really loyal followings attached to them. Look at the Emily in Paris saga, right? It's continuing on into a sixth season I hear now. So it's just sort of never ending and brands are still finding so much value in integrating into the show and extending the storyline outside of the show's parameters through their own brand messaging. I think, um, my favorite example is Emily in Paris with Fendi, the luxury brand. Um, the plot of the show took place in Rome and then Fendi created a whole collection because the show, the show featured one of their baguette bags, extending it into a space where perhaps they wouldn't have shown up, um, you know, before with an Emily in Paris collection, it makes sense. It was in the show, the premises in Rome, they're a Roman brand. So just kind of storytelling beyond the confines of when the show ends, I think is really exciting
Speaker 2to me. Yeah. The streaming, um, I, do you watch a lot of TV? I do. Yeah. And is it mostly streaming or is it.
Speaker 1Streaming. I don't own cable. I don't have an access to cable, so.
Speaker 2Very good. Yeah. I don't either. Yeah. So see.
Speaker 1Yeah. See it's two generations. Yeah. Two generations coming together.
Speaker 2Cut the cable. Yeah. I, I, it's interesting to me because it used, and maybe it still is. So you're the futurist, you're watching this. They used to basically dictate a lot of times, you know, what was happening culturally, what, what was interesting in store, what, what, how people dressed, how they acted still.
Speaker 1So No, I think social media really has rivaled that quite a bit. I love giving this example. It's new. She's kind of found success very recently. I think her name is Courtney cook. She is a teacher somewhere in America, I think in the south and she eats, um, on the internet and she'll show her kind of weird concoctions that she puts together. She has absolutely gone viral. She has made sweet potatoes. Like sell out at grocery stores because she puts a piece of cheese in them and it becomes this really important meal for her. And everyone has commented like, this is my show. This is what I tune in for daily. And you know, these comments are touching on something that at a macro level is actually true where social media has encouraged ritualistic behavior. We tune in every day to watch what our creator, our favorite creators are doing. That is my, you know, social media is my news. Social media is my entertainment. Social media is increasingly creating micro little format shows. There's micro dramas happening in Asia and now popular in the U S as well happening within the confines of your phone, right? You can watch entire shows that are on streaming networks in Tik Tok in little, you know, three minute clips. So to me, I think the future of entertainment and the future of leisure spending, you know, leisure time that you spent normally on a couch in front of your big TV is actually probably on the couch in front of your big TV, but also on your small little screen to also scrolling simultaneously, perhaps that's where shopping comes into play, right? There's so much commerce opportunity, QR codes that can pop up, Tik Tok shop, things of that nature. And I think the next couple of years, we're going to see a lot of commerce integration in between our screen fluid futures, whether that's on the big screen or on our small screens.
Speaker 2All right. I'm going to ask you a few rapid fire questions. So this is where you just tell me the first thing that comes to mind. Okay. All right. You ready? Sure. You sure? Yeah. All right. Uh, best book you've read recently? You know, I have a hundred books.
Speaker 1I have a hard time reading books fully. Really? Yeah. I think it's the trend forecasting nature in me because Lisa White is, um, one of our, you know, top forecasters at WGSN. She said the same. I've never shared that openly with anyone. Then I told her recently, she's like, I completely agree. I can't sit through like a whole book. So like I'll, I'll, I'll dabble and then I get bored and then I never finish it.
Speaker 2You know, it's really interesting that you say that. I used to be, I love to read, absolutely love to read. And I told my parents growing up that the greatest gift that they've given to their children is a love of reading. Now, that being said, I just don't read that much anymore. Yeah. And it's, and it makes it, I just read, I did read a book and it was called, um, Theo of Golden, which was a phenomenal book. But I, I, in the old days I'd pick it up and within two days i'd be done now this book i was like it took me a month there's a lot
Speaker 1of research on how our brains are being trained for you know quick fire i you know we're watching something on tiktok and we're bored and we move on to the next and when and it that sort of rapid fire scrolling has actually trained our brains to not be able to pay attention for long periods of time and i think i'm i think just also the nature of my job i just i i can't pay attention to things for a long time and my brain is always on so i i tend to read non-fiction when i read though i prefer non-fiction to fiction yeah
Speaker 2yeah so i agree with biographies things of that nature yeah yeah all right rabbit hole favorite outdoor activity probably
Speaker 1hiking i have a rottweiler so going hiking yeah
Speaker 2nobody's gonna bug you here comes the rottweiler um the favorite ai tool that you use i don't know
Speaker 1if i should admit this chat gpt is like everything to me and it's like you know it helps you diagnose whatever you're feeling you know i have a headache what's going on you know i'm probably too too reliant on it for that and also it's like i think like i share way too much with chat gpt so i would say that
Speaker 2yeah it's a little bit scary sometimes
Speaker 1it's scary how much the chat gpt or the tools out there know about the people using them just based on prompts
Speaker 2other than retail gets real and your podcast what's your favorite podcast
Speaker 1i like a lot of the business podcasts out there i think a lot of the them do well you know create tomorrow and lives of tomorrow are the the ones that we really subscribe to at wgsn obviously because they're our own but yeah i would say genre wise it's business podcast just because i think that's what's most interesting
Speaker 2to me excellent cassandra i have enjoyed this immensely thanks it makes me look forward greatly to next year and the big show and our opportunity to talk about that this year and next year and some of the trends that we're seeing and some of the things we can expect thank you so much for being a part of retail gets real and thank you all for listening to another episode of retail gets real you can find more information about this episode at retailgetsreal.com from retail's big show in new york city i'm bill thorne this is retail gets real thanks again for listening until next time you
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