The Credit Card Secrets Rich People Don’t Talk About (ft. The Points Guy)

(upbeat music) - What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, aka Mrs. Dow Jones. And this is Financial Teap. - Wired has always put a microscope on the people, power, and forces shaping our world. Uncanny Valley brings that same fearless reporting straight to your feed. Is Doge finally over? Will AI actually democratize American healthcare? Each week, Wired journalists from across the newsroom are gonna unpack where politics, technology, and Silicon Valley collide. From conversations with tech leaders across Silicon Valley, internet fandom, investigations, and government crackdowns on rigged gambling, we're taking you all over the news cycle, going straight inside the priorities, pressures, and power plays, driving today's biggest decisions. Uncanny Valley tackles the questions keeping you up at night and helps make sense of the future taking shape right now. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Hi, it's Ploma Faith. My podcast, Mad Sad and Bad, is back for season four. I'm sitting down with some amazing people, including the Tisha Wright. - When I'm really fearful of something, I just run towards it. - Judy Love. - I'm Sullivan. - Out of choice. - Yeah, that could get you any day. (laughing) - Race Campbell, here we have Anita, who's a dog psychic, how eddy. - Stop barking when I'm-- - She said you're too noisy. (laughing) - I'm plenty more. - Mad Sad and Bad, with me, Paloma Faith. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. - What's up, Sippers? Welcome back to Financial T with Mrs. Dow Jones. This is the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course financial pop culture. In this episode, we're gonna be talking credit cards. Yes, plastic is back, baby. We're gonna go through the good, the bad, and the ones absolutely wrecking your financial life that you need to stay away from at all costs. Of course, I couldn't do this alone, so I brought in the big guns. Brian Kelly himself is joining us, aka the point sky. And let me tell you, the man spilled everything, including something shocking about his own finances that fingers crossed will land us in page six. Also, Loki, every person who works on this podcast, and like her the recording, signed up for his card breaks after the episode, including me, so be prepared to get super actionable after you listen to this episode, and you're gonna upgrade your wallet, too. So if you want better perks, better credit, and more free flights without ruining your net worth, this episode is for you. Let's get into it. (upbeat music) - This is monumental. - It really is. We're gonna do just a little prayer, just bring in the podcast gods. You know, we're here to help people with their credit cards. - Let's do a little manifestation. - Ask, believe, receive. - In the words of Kim Zolsek-Beerman of the Atlanta House, so she's one of my financial gurus. - She really, I be house life to me is like. - She's ahead of her time. - Yeah, they all are. They all are. They're playing chess, we're playing checkers, baby. That's really who you need to look to. I have a few questions for you before we start that we ask every guest. First of all, what are your best and worst purchases of the week? Be for real. - Ooh, my best. Oh, so my worst purchase of the week is a, I love shackets, and you gotta spend money to make money, and I believe in having nice clothes. But I didn't try it on, and it looks beautiful, but I took the tags off, and I went outside to wear it, and it's like extraordinarily woolly. It's like Brillo Pad. - Oh, no. - And I have like sensitive skin, and it was like a $2,000 really beautiful overcoat that I now cannot return. I will still wear it, but I was really annoyed, so never take your tags off until you really do a trial run. - Oh, yeah, you've gotta wear first. - Yes. - Try before you buy. - Always. Yeah, and then my best purchase of the week would have to be, I'll say, 'cause this is travel insurance, so for the year ahead, I buy a yearly travel insurance package for my whole family. - Smart. - Even though I have coverage through certain credit cards, and I have good health insurance, it's never enough, and I think for me and my kids, it was like $1,500 for the year for really good coverage, so it's always just a nice piece of mind to have that. - That's awesome. - And Aliens, I've no partnership with them, but in the travel insurance world, Aliens is the yearly plan that pretty much all the top travel bloggers, it has very good reputation. - Yeah, that's what I've always used to. - Aliens is like the gold standard. Never buy travel insurance through the airline website, hotel website. You want to get it from a travel insurance provider, 'cause the airlines and hotels often, it's not even travel insurance. It's what's called travel protection, which is more expensive and has less coverage. So fun fact, and ensuremytrip.com is where if you want an individual package for like a big trip, that's where you go and compare and contrast plans before you purchase. - Yeah, I feel like people, when they book trips, it's already so expensive, so you're always, I feel like, and that's the same with, people always skimp on insurance. Like when you buy your iPhone, you're like, oh, well, Apple cares another $2.99, so you shouldn't get it, but then the next day you drop your phone and then you have to pay to replace it. - Totally, travel insurance, I think it's like, it can be four or five percent of the total cost of the trip. It's like a rounding error, in my opinion. So definitely a believer, you know, airlines melting down this, you know, last year we saw a lot of drama with airlines, the shutdown, you name it, so travel insurance, I think it's a good 2026 bet. - Okay, that's really good. So my next question is sort of in times, but I know that you have a good answer. What do you lie about when it comes to money, 'cause we all fib a little. - Ooh, what do I lie about when it comes to money? - Like with dating, like anything. - Ooh, well, first off, I would say, you know, people think I'm the points guy, and I put every single expense on credit card, and by and large, I do. I also carry around cash all the time. And this is a mistake I see a lot of people making. I am a believer in a tip, and I think tips can get you extraordinary value in favors beyond like what you're owed. And I think in the travel world, for example, if you tip, not that I tip hotel front desk agents a lot, but people, some people do. I generally, I'm not that forward, but you could do that, and then if you ever need help, like canceling the room early, like just being nice and tipping, tipping the front desk people, and then when you ask for a favor, like, hey, I get late checkout, the people like you. So I always have cash on me, although I do try to spend everything that I can on a credit card, not just for the points, and this is what people need to realize too. When you're buying anything, using a credit card gives you protections as well. So- - Yeah, that's huge. - So even when I'm renting villas abroad, and there'll be like 3% fee to use a credit card or free to bank wire or a boat rental in Miami for a day, use the 3% fee, you're gonna earn points that'll pretty much cover the fee, but even if it doesn't, you have the protection. And when that boat doesn't show up, or the quality of the boat, if you wired the money to them to save that 3%, you're out the entire cost. So that is something I've learned over the years that I will pay a fee to pay for services, so I have that extra protection as well. - So you're relying about being the points guy, 'cause actually you're paying in cash. - Yeah, I do carry cash on me. And I do like tipping in cash as well, because when you put a tip on a credit card, you're not sure, especially in other countries, the person you're trying to tip is probably not gonna get it. - Cash is king. - Cash is king, and I think it gets you karma points. So even if you're not getting your credit card points, but I do believe in the value of like, hooking up the people that make our lives easier. - My issue with carrying in cash is I feel like I've become like two, making it rain. Like I'll be seeing anyone, and I'm like, here's a little for you, here's a little for you. Like, okay. - I think, but I've come to learn that like, if you can afford it, just do it. - Oh yeah. - Right, like I remember when, like I now, luckily I have 20's on me pretty much all the time. - Yeah, so guys, if you're looking for someone two mug, two sort of like track down, maybe, you know, you are looking for some extra cash, like brines of good target. He's very tall. - And I'm also, I mean, God, I've never been mugged or like, or pick pocketed, but I'm of the mindset. Like, I mean, and I'm fortunate. - Take it. - Take it. - And if someone really, I'm not gonna stress about, you know, yeah, I know that's a very fortunate place to come from, but. - No, you have a good money mindset. Like, you believe that money is abundant and that it comes too easily. - And I do believe the more you give in life, in general, not just money, but your time and energy, it does come back. - Okay, final question. Do you feel rich today? - I do. - Yeah. - I do feel rich. I have flexibility in my life. Like, I can make decisions. I have two kids by myself, which so many people will say, you're so brave. I could never, and I am fully transparent in that. I have incredible two nannies at. - Alternate. - Alternate and work with me full time. So I kind of have. It's like having a wife, you know, full time. 24/7, you know, seven days a week was just dedicated on the kids and their thriving. So that to me is, you know, being able to have kids who are able to thrive and be happy and send them to good schools. And I think like bigger picture too, like the stock market goes ups and down. We saw, you know, craziness. But I think I hit a point a couple of years ago where I'm just like, I'm just not going to worry about that day-to-day. Not stressing about the day-to-day fluctuations of the market, and I think as I've heard you say, it's not timing the market, but that's time in the market. And just letting those lessons finally sit in over time. you get older, I think that's, you know, I do feel rich in that respect. - Okay, so we're gonna talk about credit cards today. Obviously you are the points guy, but before we jump into that, I want to know what credit cards do you actually carry? Like what heat are you packing, Ryan? Talk about 20 or eight credit cards. - Now, I also have small businesses, and I also, you know, as part of the points guy, a funny deal note that I negotiated, when I sold the company many years ago, is that I was able to put the expenses for the business on my personal credit card. - So crazy. - So that I'm the points guy, and when I sold to a big publicly traded company, I was like, my travel patterns will break whatever travel policies exist, and I don't want that tension. So I was like, let me put the company expense on my card. I need the points, they were like, no brainer. Yeah, you gotta practice what you preach. - Yeah. - That has like, that is how I get most of my points. You know, at the points guy, we spent a lot of money on internet ads, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Bing. That's what I was thinking. So I get to put a portion of those on my credit card and last year, the biggest points thing happened to me last year when Chase Sapphire, they've refreshed and they came out with their new Chase Sapphire Reserve for business. And when I was getting the information on it, I saw one thing that I, like the time stopped, and it was triple points on internet advertising. - Whoa. - Unlimited. - Stop. - So up until that point, there was Amix Business Gold, there was Chase Inc, and they all had $150,000 a year caps. - Whoa. - So imagine me sometimes I spent a million dollars a month. - Day of. - So I was have, I had multiple cards, and you know, once I would max out the 150, it was like playing credit card roulette. - Yeah. - I had to put, and the Sapphire Reserve business, now it was 3X unlimited. So for anyone out there listening, even if you have a small business doing, you know, Instagram ads or whatever, this is a game chain. - Yeah, that's pretty good. - So many people follow the points guy. Even doctors, doctors who do a lot of spend or internet ads, this is like the game changing card for me. So now, you know, my points earn because of that new card. That's the number one card I spend the most on. That's not my personal spend. Personal spend is Capital One Venture X, surprises a lot of people. That card is two miles per dollar on every dollar. - I love that card, I love that card. - When you think about it, two X on everything, 'cause that's, you know, I spend a lot of money, you know, even when you're paying tuition, you can even pay taxes on that card. 'Cause the government charges 1.89% to pay, but when you're paying on a venture X card, you're getting two valuable cap 1 miles. And then other cards just, I think for, you know, the urban dwelling, young person, Amix Gold. - Oh, Amix Gold's the best. Like people really play themselves with the platinum stuff. And I'm like, just get the gold. Like you are not traveling enough, you are eating out. That's what you do mostly. - You eat out 4X, I'm not just eating out, but also groceries. - Oh, that's like what we're spending on. - Yeah. - The gold, it's my. - Gold is like-- - That's everything. - You know, platinum is great if you get, you know, for perks, if you fly Delta, if you like Centurion, platinum has its place, but as a points earning card, so many people think the platinum is the best Amix points card. And it's not, it's a gold. - No people think that just because it's the highest level that you're gonna get the most, but you have to actually look at the fine print and think about how you are spending a good consumer. - Yeah. - Can you name all 28 of your children? Like let's see it, rapid fire. - This is a very vulnerable moment for me. I've always been asked, people just will stop it. Oh, I have 28 credit cards. Wow, that's crazy. My credit card's, you know, near perfect. - No, I need a list. - Haley, it's the first-- - Let's see. - Time line. - She has receipts. Receipts, time line. Okay, here we go. (upbeat music) - There, try it and you did it. - You got it. - 28, I think there's probably one other out there missing, but-- - Yes. - But yeah. - What was your first credit card? - Oh my God, my first credit card was a university of Pittsburgh when I was in college that gave me an umbrella. - Oh, there's always-- - MBNA and I had no money. And funny enough, I was an idiot. I went on spring break. I wasn't working. I got into credit card debt and I went home for college or holiday break and I remember going to a diner, smoking cigarettes with my friends and I drank two pots of coffee and I came home and had heart palpitations and I hadn't told my parents I was in credit card debt and I remember I was bugging out. - How about how much was it? - It was like five or six grand, but I couldn't pay anything. - And what was it from? - I mean, I was stupid with credit. I went to Ireland on spring break. I couldn't afford it. I made all of the mistakes. I sat down with my parents and they're like, you're an idiot. We're not paying for this for you. And they're like, what we will do is you're going to get a student loan to pay off your bills. And I paid off that student loan for like five years into like working in New York City. And I also-- - What was the interest rate? - It was crazy, I don't even know. I mean, the student loan was maybe 12%, but I think my card was 30. It was like this, you know, I was in quicksand. So I understand, I also made the dumb choice. I skipped out on all my bills. It was my senior year when I moved to New York. I was like, they'll never catch me in New York City. And then I actually got wage garnishing notices from creditors when I was 22, working my $45,000 a year job. So I was like-- - So you learned the system through being in the system? - Through, I mean, this is a secret. I don't know if I've ever told this, but when my parents were like, we're not helping you, you got to figure this life out in New York. Got a fifth floor walk up. I was living with roommates with cats. And like this-- - Oh God, I'm not Brian. - I know, but I was like, I'm gonna figure this financial thing out. And it took me years. And funny enough, my credit got so bad that when I got my job at Morgan Stanley as a college recruiter, they wouldn't give me the corporate amics. And I had no money to travel for-- - Damn, that A is a crazy thing about credit that people don't realize is that your employer can research it and like can know your credit. But also, I feel like it's a good example of people. One of the things that keeps people from taking control of their finances, I think is this idea that it's too late or that they're missing a chip or something to do it. But actually everyone starts from the same place. - Totally. - War and Buffett was born financially illiterate. - Totally. - The points guy did-- - I was the credit card dad. - And by the way, my secret that I don't tell often is that I actually took a payday loan when I was 23 living in New York. I had no money. All of my-- - I'm like, I might have a rash. - I know, and funny enough, that payday loan was so predatory. I tried to pay it off. It was the never ending loan 'cause you would pay it off and it would be a $40 fee. - Yes. - Funny enough, years later I'm watching a Netflix documentary on the scoundrels that ran that paycheck that he went to jail. He was from Kansas City. - Oh my gosh. - They ran this payday. It is-- - We gotta write down. - It is criminal, and I experienced it 'cause I refused. My parents weren't giving me money. I was actually picking up odd jobs in New York City on Craigslist. I was pretending to be a sommelier. I would do, like I did an Indian dating event in the East Village for 200 bucks, pretending to be a sommelier. I broke the cork opening the bottle. - Of course. - But I am so thankful to my parents for pushing us, like, you wanna live this rich life? - Yeah. - I've always wanted to be rich. My parents were very, I'm one of four kids. My mom's one of 10, they did well, but I thought we were poor growing up. And I am so thankful. They did not give me the brand new car when I was 16. - Yeah. - I was so mad, my parents were like, you're smart. You can figure it out. - You could bear it out, and you did. - I remember being a victim of the system to gaming the system. - Which is funny. I had horrible credit, paid a loan, couldn't get a credit card and now I'm like, the world's expert on credit cards. So anyone listening out there, trust me. - They can do it. - This is a system, credit is not that complicated. You can make mistakes, but the biggest, you know, FICO lists on their website. Like, you just gotta pay your bills down. One of my very good friends, who's 40 years old, you know, lives a jet-setting life. But behind the scenes was crumbling financially. I actually work with him recently. He had huge credit card debt. You can call the credit card companies, negotiate gaming. - Negotiate, I always say that's, and I actually have free scripts for credit card and negotiation. - I wish. - Shocked, because I haven't. - No, you can call them, but everything is negotiable. You're a wireless bill negotiable. - Everything they want to figure it out. - Fuck yeah, everything is. - So take your head out of the sand, face the action. - But the good thing about it is just focus, you gotta make more money and spend less money. - Yeah, you gotta make more of it, yeah, yeah. But the beautiful thing about credit is, once you A, just make every payment every month. That's number one. Number two is, you know, your debt to credit ratio. Just paying down your bills every month. You will see your scores start to rise. It'll be small, but do not, you know, a lot of people want the easy way out. Let me just declare bankruptcy or whatever that. You know, you want to avoid it all costs. - Yeah, you don't want to do that. But sometimes to get out of debt, if you're in a lot of credit card debt, it makes sense to like do like a debt consolidation company and which will hurt your credit in the short term. But usually your credit is already not great. And you could fix your credit. Like your credit is quite fixable. - It's fixable. - You know, so mostly just figuring out what's the quickest, cheapest path to paying it off. - And then stick to it. - Yeah, you have to bring down your expenses. - So you're the point sky, so you have 28 cards. But for the regular person setting up their wallet, how many cards should we have? And like what's the mix of cards that you should have? Because I feel like that's just so confusing. - Yeah, and I don't recommend everyone getting 28 cards. By the way, you may think 28's crazy. I know people who have over 100 credit cards in this game. So there is a, you know, I'm an expert. I mean, there are people who are like have hundreds of credit cards and perfect credit scores, right? So that's the thing that, you know. - It's a full-time job. - But it's a full-time job. Not everyone is cut out for it. - The juice is not worth the squeeze unless you're the point scott. - Yeah, but I would recommend in general, I think a healthy credit card portfolio. Now, this is, we're coming from the mindset of you're going to pay your bills off every month on time. - Yeah. - If you're not financially set up to do that, if you and your gut right now think, oh no, I'm gonna spend too much, don't do this, right? But if you've got your finances down, you absolutely, I think five credit cards is a healthy place to be. You have a visa, a master card, an AMEX, and a double, you know, maybe one more visa or master card in at least an AMEX, but I like having at least one from all three of the, you know, big credit card networks 'cause sometimes, especially when traveling, they may not take one or the other, so. - That's a really good point. - But then just look at what you spend the most money on. - To choose which one, it makes, like, which type of each card needs the most sense. But like, how do you know if you should get an annual fee card? - In general, I believe strongly in annual fee cards. Most no annual fee cards are not worth it. And this is a good point. Some people say it sounds too good to be true. Like, look, the credit card companies are spending more money on you to get you as a customer. - Yeah, they want to acquire those questions. - Don't ask questions. - Yeah. - That's the banks. And trust me, look at the stock market for all the banks. They're doing well, so you'd never feel bad about taking your fair share. - But it's like a special, a specific salary that you should have that correlates to what credit cards you should have. Like, how do you know how you-- - I think it's, once we start getting into the annual fee realm, so I think any one, you know, a $95-year card that Chase Sapphire preferred as an excellent starter card, you know, capital-inventure, AMX screen, or AMX gold card, it's a little bit higher. It's like that in-between. But look at the, don't just look at the annual fee. Look at all the perks you get, the benefits, and do the math for yourself of will I actually get more than the annual fee. Now, if you want to get a premium card, I do believe, and look, I work with all the credit card companies. I, each one has its own. But a no-brainer for me is a capital-inventure X. So that card is $395, you get 300 a year in travel, which is easy to use. - Wow, yeah. - So that's $95 a year. But then they also give you 10,000 bonus miles a year, and those 10,000, at a minimum, were worth $100. - Wow. - So you're now making $5. And this is a card that gets you access to their beautiful lounges. - Wow. - So, and 2X on everything. - That's a great, okay, great. - Yeah, so that is a card. Some of the other cards that are $7,800, you might have to do more of the math, but the capital-inventure X card is to me, the, an easy first premium credit card, especially if you live in a city, their lounged JFK is 24/7 at Terminal 4, which is awesome. So anyway. - So the capital-one venture X, we think everyone should have-- - It's a no-brainer. - You get, 'cause you can get your $300 in travel, and then you get-- - And then you get the $100 a year minimum in that 10,000 points. - That's all your bonus. - So the $395 card, I am confident in saying, they're essentially paying you, plus this card has all these other perks, like lounge access, and the capital-on-lounge is our stunning. - 24 hours at JFK. So then you said we needed five cards. - So at $395, no-brainer, capital-inventure X, in my humble opinion. Number two, Amix Gold is $325, but comes with a lot of different perks and credits, and that 4X on dining and grocery, which everyone spends on. So that, I feel confident in that, if you're spending money, even if you're cooking or going out, you're gonna get the value back. - Oh yeah. - I think I love the Chase Ultimate Rewards ecosystem. I think a Chase Sapphire Preferred is a great entry-level card. If you're looking at getting a premium credit card, I mean, Chase points are really valuable. The Chase lounges are gorgeous. - But how do you know? Like I feel like, okay, Haley Bieber did an ad for Chase, and like we're seeing like the foster sisters, and like they're really coming through as being like, okay, like the girlies need to have. They're like almost $800 a year annual fee Chase call it. But then Amix also seems like amazing. So how do you decide which annual, which high annual fee card you should get? - So the Amix Platinum teams up with Uber, Chase Sapphire is with Lyft. So when you look at the Chase Sapphire Reserve, off the bat, you take off 300, because the Chase Sapphire Reserve $300 credit is easy. It's automatic. You don't have to opt in. You don't have to select an airline. So really Sapphire Reserve $7.95 is really $4.95. That's where you're starting off with before looking into all the other perks and benefits. They have a stub hub, they have Lyft, they have DoorDash, they have Apple. So if you're paying for Apple TV, in my opinion, they have, I think it's our team calculator, like somewhere near $2,000 in yearly perks. Even if you're not getting half of them, remember it's not a $7.95 card. It's really, in my opinion, a $4.95 card. So if you've got $2,000 in perks to choose from, you really only have to get 25% to be even. And that's just for the annual fee. And that's without factoring in your lounge access, right? So if you're a girly that travels, likes lounge access, then getting one of these premium cards, it is, you have to do the math yourself. This is like one airport water is $4.95. I value each lounge visit at at least $50. If you have the Sapphire, Amax gets you one, you just yourself in. Amax lounges are great. There's a lot of them. But they're also still overcrowded. So that's the other thing. Everyone had these cards. They are cracking down. In 2026, there's new rules with guests and everything with capital one. Chase still allows two guests. That is lit. So do I get to bring mystery? My main point to people is get yourself down. Can you make the annual fee easily? By looking at the credits and saying, yeah, I would have actually spent that money. Are you spending money on Apple TV right now? Well, you could get it for free on the Chase card. Your door dash, lift, the 300 travel. They also have hotel credits at nice hotels. Now, when you're looking at the travel credits, sometimes like the hotels with Amax or Chase, you have to book through them. The hotels might be a little bit more expensive. They might not. There's two nights stay. So those ones are a little bit harder. No one can tell you if you're going to get the value. But if you look and you say, well, I'm going to say in this many hotels this year, I'm going to this many weddings. So hotel credits, I will use. Yeah. Then you might be getting way more than the annual fee. Plus, so the lounge access is like the cherry on top. And then what I want to let people know, when you have these premium cards with the credit card companies, your service level goes up too. So what I mean by that is when you have an issue with the vendor, I'll give an example, my son, when I was going on my book tour, at these beautiful permanent markers, he drew all over a $1,500 leather, beautiful new chair that I had gotten. No. He ruined it. No. Or he made art. Yeah, it's actually art. Yeah, it's art. I actually filed a claim with capital one, because they have purchase protection. So I bought my mom a dress for Mother's Day. It's like actress dress. It was like $800. And she has a dog with Pika, which who's seen the Charlize Thoreau movie, where she pays the woman with Pika, where you can't stop eating anything inanimate objects. So the stock is eating couches. She's eating mango pits. She eats rags like whatever she'll eat it. So obviously they left the dress out. The dog was like, yum, dinner. Eighth the dress, MX replaced. I got the messed up dress fixed. Now, mom and I are matching. Thank you, MX. Truly, and so have you ever ordered something online? It didn't fit. They won't take it back. So capital one and a lot of them have return or extended warranty. So this is where, so on the points level alone, with the annual or with the signup bonus, you're getting thousands in value. So that's your first couple years of annual fee. Plus the perks and fees, plus the service, and then plus all these other perks, like protections. A lot of these top premium cards chase out fire reserve. If you're delayed six hours or more, they're paying $500 for you and everyone on your to get gorgeous hotels. Don't sit there and beg for a motel six. Yeah. From the airline, if you've got a sapphire reserve, you're booking yourself at the-- There are two cats, baby. Yeah, and they're reimbursing you. So that's the aha moment I want people to have. Don't just look at the annual fee. Obviously, we love rules. Point sky, Ms. Dow Jones, we like to get people rules. But I would say the core of our work is also to look at things personally. Finance is personal, personal finance, but also credit card choice, personal. I'm so passionate about this. Once you-- and I love the aha moments people have, once you, you know, if you're listening to this right now, you want to travel this year, you have all these weddings, you can't make it work financially. Credit cards can help you do that if you play the game right. That's what I love about it. And your credit score will go up. Observe the North American dad, 50s, great polo collection. He enters his vehicle information on Carvana and offers appears in minutes. Remarkable. He squints, reads it again, smiles and says, dang. That's a good offer. The highest form of approval, no haggling, no hassle, no one called him boss. He's still on the couch, astonishing. Sell your car today on Carvana.com. Pick up these may apply. Hello, Dan Jones here. If you're listening to this, then I'm sorry to tell you that I'm dead. This tree seems like a very odd choice of death. I'm just being real here. Where there's a will, there's a wake, is a comedy podcast hosted by Mel Gedroich. So if you've ever wished I was dead, this is the show for you. We remember Dan as a talkative man, a man of words, now at long last, maybe we can all get a word in edgewise. Watch and listen to my episode with Mel, wherever you get to your podcasts. You have 28 cards, just sort of back to that. When you make a purchase, how are you figuring out what is the right card for each moment? Yeah. So it depends on just not how much you're earning, but also what currencies you need. And as you start using points, certain currencies work better for your needs. So I would tell people, you know, for all the major categories that you can, but there's just, there's not cards out there [BLANK_AUDIO] dental 5X, right? Like there's only a certain amount. That's why my baseline card that almost everything else, my online shopping, goes on my Capital One Venture X 2X on everything. So the goal in my eyes is just to earn more than one point per dollar in every purchase. That's good. And beyond credit cards, this is an aha moment I want everyone to have is online shopping portals. So for shopping online, there's Rakuten, there's a website called Cashback Monitor where you can type in whatever retailer you want to shop at. And it'll tell you what cashback you can get or you can get airline miles, amics, all the credit card companies have their own shopping portals where you can earn extra points. So never click directly to a retailer, always shop through portals because you're going to earn the points for paying for the purchase on your points credit card plus the portal points. Say those two portals one more time. So Rakuten. And then if you go to cashbackmonitor.com, you can type in any retailer and it'll show you all the different portals, American Airlines, Hilton, whatever. So if you want to get more American miles, you could, you know, shop through the I shop through American Airlines shopping because the American miles you earn for your online shopping count your elite status. That's one of the only airlines that'll do that. And American Airlines miles are actually among the most valuable. No, we love American Airlines. But the other thing about online shopping too is always price check that doesn't have to do with points. Absolutely. And I love all your tips on and also don't buy the hype on Amazon, etc. Even if you go to, like if you're in a store about to buy something, look at it online first, like that's happened to me twice. And now it will never happen again, where I bought something that then I was able to find online for cheaper. I'll end with credit cards or your sapphires. We're talking mostly about like the bank cards, which in my opinion are the most valuable. I do think there's room to have a co-brand card. So if you fly American a lot or Delta, the co-brand cards, while they're not the most valuable points because you're only earning in like an airline or hotel, whereas the credit card points you can transfer to a lot, having airline hotel cards will give you perks that are valuable, like check bags, priority boarding, etc. So I do leave space in your wallet for the airline you fly the most because $95 a year, but you're getting $100 per trip and free check bags. That's a no-brainer. That's amazing. But don't spend everything you have on an airline card because the credit card points are way more valuable. Obviously like you're a sexy, gorgeous man, you're on the market, and you've been in a lot of relationships. So what's the deal with people that you're dating and like their credit cards? Do you ever give them a credit card? What's like a credit card red flag for you? You know, a debit card's a red flag. Oh, that's happened. No, I don't like to judge people. I mean, I have been in bad financial streets before. I think for me personally, I would, you know, I love when people take control over their finances. No, you know, so I don't want to, you don't need to be a points person, you know, that, but you know, if you have your financial house together, that's important for me. I have kids. I want someone who has their, you know, financial life together. But more important than financially, just like I want someone who's fun and is a good traveler. I've dated people who have, have your flying and that's just doesn't work, unfortunately. What should you add your girlfriend or boyfriend to your card? There are pluses and minuses to this. The plus side is if you have good credit, you can help your partner get credit, but you also are responsible for everything they do. So if you add someone for good credit, what I recommend is you can give them a line on yours, but then put their spending down to one dollar so they can't spend on your card, but just note, if they start getting horrible credit, it could impact you. Most of the time, the credit card companies, they don't take, they only give the good credit, but if you see your score going down, you can always take them off. But in general, you know, that's a, I will just say, once you get married, go to two player mode where don't have the same credit card as your partner, get different ones. You guys are maximizing different currencies, sign up bonuses, don't be an additional user because you're really limiting the amount of points you could bring in instead of having two players each having their own strategy. That's a really good, really good tip. And you have kids too, like a lot of people put their kids on their card super young so that they will, when they're 18, have this long credit history, have you done that? So I haven't done it yet. I think some credit cards won't let you do it till they're 16. I think, you know, when the day comes, I would do that, but I think what's more important than credit cards is starting to invest for your kids very early. So that's where I would say focus most, you know, your kids, if you have good credit yourself, just teach your kids good credit habits. My parents are amazing. We didn't really talk about finance as much. I'm not blaming my idiotic actions and college on my parents, but I do wish there was a lot more, you know, we didn't have podcasts at all when I was, when I was a little kid. So I'm not worried about my kids understanding finances because my favorite thing my parents ever did for me was made me hustle and I know my kids are growing up in a much more, you know, privileged lifestyle than I have, but I'm going to assuredly make sure that they have those same values because if you go through life, I feel like you're like shock. You're like, my money is my money. You have to figure out your own money. Oh no, we're spending my money. I joke with my kids. They don't really understand what I'm saying. I was like, do you want to go to Antarctica or do you want to trust fun and and they're really like, "Artica!" You got consent. But I'm not living my life to squirrel away money for my kids to spend. No, like the joy of my life has been figuring it out from payday loans to becoming a credit card expert and selling businesses and investing in them, like that to me is now may not be the same for my kids, but like they for sure will have a work ethic. Love that. What does the perfect wallet look like? So like a capsule wallet, if you will. So give us your everyday card, your travel card, your eating out card, maybe a cash back card, and they're not beginner cards, so if you have no credit, then you can then like earn your credit. Build our perfect card. So if you're starting from scratch, bad credit, get a secured card, six months of spending, paying it off on time, you'll be shocked at how much your score will go up. It's crazy. From that point on, you will get an intro, no annual fee card. I love the freedom unlimited. You start with the freedom unlimited, because that opens you up into the chase ecosystem, and then once your score keeps going up and you have a good relationship with Chase, you get the sapphire preferred, or you maybe even just goes directly to a reserve card, which I personally love. I do think AMX is an excellent company. You want to have an AMX card. AMX Gold is a no brainer. You're eating out. Yeah, eating out is your AMX and groceries. AMX Gold, no brainer. Capital one venture for your everyday two miles on everything. That's $95. I do recommend just going to the venture X at $3.95. I think we're all getting not as your everyday. But let's just say an airline card. I'm going to go with like getting a, you know, an American Airlines, because those miles are really valuable. Also Alaska Airlines is valuable. But Alaska is so good. Alaska is an amazing royalty program. It's one world, so it teams up with a lot. And then, you know, stay away from Virgin. Virgin, you know, it's a fun airline, but the program is bad. And their website never works. Yeah. Okay. Oh, and then let's just say, so you don't even want to travel. You want to focus on your financial health in 2026, a city double cash card. It's 2% back when you pay it in full every month. Great. 2% is a gold standard in terms of cash back. Awesome. However, there is, you know, if you aren't a crypto, you could be getting that there's a coin base card with like 3% back. Yeah, that's 3 are doing a big bonus. Which actually is a pretty compelling offer. So I'm not, I'm actually looking at getting that coin base 3% back. So I spend a lot, you can think about it. You can make money paying taxes because you're getting 3% back and paying 1.89 and pay them. So that's kind of cool to think about making money paying taxes. Okay. I'm getting it too. Whatever with Brian, I'm like ordering a new card. Okay. One question. People are obsessed with the Amazon visa card. Yeah. Oh, yeah. If you spend a lot on Amazon, the Amazon card can be a great deal. Okay. That's one of your biggest expenses. So bottom line, after this episode, look at what your full spend in, you know, 2025 was. Look at what you spend every major category and then you want to align a card. You know, the built cards will be coming out in February. If you're paying rent or mortgage, those could make a lot of sense. So I would hold space potentially for a built card. They will have a no annual fee. Whoa. Okay. I'm very impressed. You really are the points guy. The penultimate expert. Why not the ultimate? Oh, okay. The ultimate. The ultimate. I don't know what penultimate means. I thought it was higher. Yeah. Okay. So I thought that it was that it was the double X. No, we can just stay with ultimate. Okay. Ultimate. Okay. Number one, you know, like no, the competition does not even close. Like we've got the master. Okay. So we got the most insane question from the audience. So I need to, it's actually a voicemail. Hi there. My name's Jonah. So I'm thinking about applying for the Chase Sapphire preferred card because I have some upcoming trips. My only real concern is the sign up bonus. My travel isn't for a while and I'm not sure if I can hit that 4k spending in three months or even the 6k requirement in six months. So here's my question. Can I buy gift cards like Costco gift cards since I shop there all the time to help me reach this minimum requirement? Is that allowed or does Chase consider that something against their terms? Worst case, I would try and buy around 6k and Costco gift cards, which would easily last me the whole year of shopping there. Is this considered a bad idea or something people usually do? So this is a great idea in general. Gif cards do not show up as gift cards. They show up as the merchant. What you can't do is buy money orders or cash equivalence. That's not going to count towards a sign up bonus, but you know double check the T's and C's. But But in general, I actually recommend this, you know, if you have an Amix Gold card, which is 4x at supermarkets, you know, in almost every supermarket, you've got your big gift card wall. Yeah. So, this is a great way, because we know Amix is 4x at supermarkets. You can buy Uber gift cards and essentially get 4x on your Uber spend by using your gold card. But if you use an Amix Gold card directly with Uber, you're not going to get 4x. So, gift cards, you know, this is a more advanced portion of this space, but absolutely, you can buy gift cards to use in the future to hit a minimum spend. And Jonah, great point in making sure that you can hit the spend. We've talked a lot about these sign-up bonuses, but many of them require, and as you get higher and higher bonuses, you may have to spend 6K within three months. Yeah. So, and just to be clear, that starts from the second you're approved. A lot of people think it's the second you activate your card. So, if you apply for credit card and go on a three week trip, the clock's ticking to hit that spend. And so, if you don't do it within the rules, you will not get the bonus. So, that's heartbreaking. We want to avoid. Also, the annual fee does not count towards the minimum spend. So, do a little bit of research before you start and never bite up more than you can chew. But yes, you can prepay taxes. You can buy gift cards at most retailers, and that will count. You will earn traditional points because when you buy something from a Costco, it's just going to show us a Costco purchase. It's not going to tell they don't care what you actually bought. They're not like doing investigations. But if it's money orders, those will calculate, you know, bring up differently in the system. Okay. Well, I think that we're all going to be buying some gift cards on that sort of genius. Well, yeah. Instead of giving cash for gifts or cash tips, you can, once you become a points person, I know I kind of am contradicting myself because I like to give cash. But in my early hustle days, I never gave cash as a wedding gift or baby shower gift. No, you're going to get a bed bath and beyond where I got 4X at the grocery store for buying that. So she started getting into that point's mentality, but you know, people just be happy. They're getting a gift. You really inspired me. Like, I feel like I have good points game, but I'm like, damn, I'm 2026. I'm about to like, lock in, like catch me next year at this time with like 28 cards just like that day. Hey, watch out world. It's happening. My goals have so many that I don't remember the mall. Yeah. Just kidding. Well, just remember to pay them all. That's mine. Let's end on that good financial wisdom. I've never spent more than you can afford. Amen. Okay. Thank you, Brian. Be sure to check out the point sky website and follow the point sky on Instagram for more. Is there anything you want to promote? No, just the point sky at the point sky on social and then I'm at Brian Kelly personally. So you can see my personal journey. But yeah, I think there's still a lot of huge deals out there. And I want everyone to be excited about the points game. It is constantly changing, but you absolutely can win at it. Stay rich. This is Mrs. Dow Jones' production for Sony Music Podcasts.