171. The Creator Economy – Who Needs a Commercial Anymore?

I mean, we probably all remember when creators became a topic. In so many people, the way they always looked at influencers is just like, okay, what are they gonna do? Just promote a product. And now you're seeing how they are really starting to have the notoriety that they deserve because nobody is activating fans and audience better than somebody that's tied in pushing a product. I mean, I don't remember the stat number, but I just saw the other day like how much money some of these people are driving doing live shopping videos. It's insane. I mean, who needs a commercial anymore? - That is Liz McLeod, founder of the Entertainment and brand licensing company, Screamy. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Create Tomorrow podcast. I'm your host Cassandra Napoli, head of consumer forecasting at WGSN. Every two weeks, I will take you on a journey to examine how trends are translated into aesthetics and product design. In this episode, Liz and I discuss what it takes to design the future of the creator economy, from putting creators at the center of licensing and immersive experiences to building authentic, cultural moments that foster meaningful engagement with creator fandoms. Hi Liz, thanks so much for being here. Welcome to the podcast. Can you please tell our listeners who you are, what you do, and a bit about your career journey so far as well, please? - Sure. So I'm Elizabeth McLeod. I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Screamy and we are taking creators offline and putting them into physical spaces with their audience and kind of creating experiences around that, showing their YouTube content in a new space and kind of building community around that. And it's been a lot of fun. We've been doing it for a short eight months already and we've already had some really great creators and the space working with us and we have a big pipeline of them coming up. And I guess what kind of got me here is I also own a branding and growth agency and some of my clients from that, I've done that for about a decade now, some of my clients from that are laid into this idea of Screamy. - Amazing. And can you tell our audience a little bit about how you do that at Screamy? So the creator economy is this massive entity, right? It's going to be worth 500 billion dollars next year in 2027, that's from Goldman Sachs. How is Screamy fit into the equation? - So I think a big part of that creator economy stuff that keeps happening is trying to figure out how can a creator leverage the audience that they've built online over a substantial period of time. Like one of the creators are working with, they've been in the space for over a decade and continually building their channel and really building that connection with their audience. The struggle is is that if you're putting all your eggs in one basket, it becomes a little challenging. And are you really going to want to be a creator doing the stunt videos? Maybe that you started out doing as a teenager when you started your channel 'cause we all evolve as humans too in our career. And so what is that next step for a creator? And so a lot of these creators are starting to turn their IP and their channels into an actual business model which is so fun to watch to where they're leveraging that creativity and the content that they're putting out and turning it into licensed products that are in retail, brand deals that are off platform and on platform, but substantially off platform and they're creating different verticals in the food and beverage category. There was a creator that's collaborating on an automotive brand right now. Like there's so many different things. And what that creator is doing, which is brilliant, is the same thing celebrities did, that were celebrities of my generation, is they just find a way to diversify. I mean, you have Ryan Reynolds that owns what Aviation Gin and the mobile company and all this stuff 'cause he's leveraging his persona to generate revenue outside of what he's known for 'cause he's just built that audience. - I was wondering if you could kind of give us an example of maybe one of the creators that you've worked with that's kind of using their persona and expanding into the brand side of things. - So the premiere that we have coming up our next one is July 22nd with Preston Place. What is being done masterfully with his channel and just their whole studio 'cause it's operated by TBR and our studios. So again, they've taken these different channels that are a part of their ecosystem and created a legit studio out of it. And then they're driving all these other things with it. So for the TBR showing, they've brought in Go Go Squeeze to be a brand partner on it. So Go Go Squeeze is integrated into a lot of different elements of the creator and then we're actually gonna integrate them into an on-site activation experience at the theaters as well. And so they're integrating in with a brand that matches their audience 'cause Preston's audience, obviously is that Go Go Squeeze kid channel demographic. And then we have 14 pallets of applesauce sitting in our warehouse here in Austin, Texas. So if anybody needs applesauce, you know we're gonna find us. - You're bringing the creator economy into the physical space. That's something that's a trend that we have been forecasting for years, right? Like this idea of IRL revival post pandemic, the idea that collective reference is so important. People want to touch physical product. They want to hang out with physical, in physical spaces, the third space is reviving, right? How important is it to bring community or creator fandoms rather into a shared space? And why do you think that formula is working in today's club? - It's funny, it's making the full circle moment, right? Like experiential stuff when I started out my career, the on-site activations, also if that's where I started. And people loved it. And then it started doing that arc where, you know, fell off and everybody started. And I'm sure COVID helped with that as well. And then people just got into the habit of not going into physical spaces to work and not really going out and doing the connection like they used to and I think people are missing it. And so now they're coming back and it's amazing. And I love it 'cause I love that being in that space. And so I think bringing them in together is so important because people are craving connection, especially considering some of the channels that we're doing stuff with for creators, for example. We did one last fall and we did a post-event survey. And it was 80 some percent of the kids that came to this event had never been to a movie before. Not to a movie theater, which is crazy, right? 'Cause like for us, I mean, even you that's kind of how we grew up like going to the movies was the thing. And then there were so many kids who they kind of felt a little siloed because it seems like a lot of people when you're talking about a YouTube channel that has five, seven million followers. But the grand scheme of things you might be the only kid in your school that is following that creator because it's not saturated yet. And so some of these kids, when they met in person, they became pen pals, they became friends with other people. They thought it was so cool that they're finally in a space of somebody that's like-minded. They could share topics with, interact with, and just have a good time. And we are seeing a lot of the same kids come over and over and over because we've had creators that were doing multiple premieres for every, you know, three, six months, we're turning around and doing them again. And so they get to come back together and it's kind of like summer camp. - Yeah, that's such a good analogy because that summer camp has kind of eroded a little bit and this is sort of like a new space for young people to find that community and connection. I have to ask about social media because we've been tracking in the last couple of years the fact that a lot of these platforms are being banned in certain countries, right? In Australia, YouTube and lots of social media has been banned largely. How do you think the creator economy could evolve in a world where social media is banned on the internet for young people because it is really their form of entertainment for gen alpha in particular. - I think that's going to be an interesting shift that we see happen and it's kind of interesting to even watch about how it's rolling out and how they're going to kind of mandate that and make certain things happen. But I also think it kind of plays in to what we were just talking about how important it is for creators to come off of their platform and grab their audience so they have another way to connect with them and reach them because let's say it does become a global thing where kids under 16 can't get on social. There's still a big chunk of kids that you've already grabbed 'cause you have your channel going and if we can get them offline and you can grab their contact info, you have a way to reach them and there's something to do that way. I think it's going to be really interesting and there's all these really great companies that are popping up that are doing subscription models to where the kids can go over and be a member somewhere else off of social and then you still have your physical space. I mean, there's a few creators we work with that have millions of people in a discord group. I mean, they're creating these other spaces where they can connect with their fans, which I think is a pivot that everybody saw coming with all the different things happening and it might have been age driven either. I mean, think last year when TikTok, the whole story, are they staying in the US? Are they getting bothered? Are they even going to be around and so many creators were a little panic because it is a good revenue driver for them? But I think that's when it really started to be eye opening of when that happens or you have no control over your livelihood and everything that you've built because it's an algorithm shift or a leadership change and decision and the platform is just not what it used to be and what are you going to do? So that's why it's so important that we create these other buckets of revenue and opportunity for the creator and find a way for their fans to connect with them if there was to be a band for the kids. And I think that's also why a lot of these creators are trying to create other connection points too. Like Mark Rober and Crunch Labs, like they do a really good job of doing their kits that they send out in the subscription box models and things like that because that's another touchpoint that doesn't rely on their social media to do that. Yeah, I always give the example. one of my co-workers has like a seven-year-old. son and he's obsessed with Mr. Beast, but he's not actually allowed to watch Mr. Beast. So he knows about Mr. Beast in, you know, by going to school or having, you know, friends with older siblings or whatever it is. And he hunts these products out in store and he anytime there's a Mr. Beast, anything, you know, she says he lasers in on it because he's obsessed with him, but he's not even actually watching the content. It's just because Mr. Beast has diversified himself, you know, to the point that he has products and he's well known beyond just his social media channel. And so it is, it's really nice to see that. And I think that confirms a lot of what we've been forecasting for years to you about diversifying the media for the creators, but also for brands like not putting all of your eggs in one basket for one social platform because that's risky in these days because we don't know what will happen, right? We saw that with TikTok last year. It's one of those interesting conversations we're having with brands too because I think it's just a mentality shift for them a little bit as well from where they've been spending their dollars to a new way to spend their dollars because, you know, billboard advertising people drive by that. Oh, you got 400,000 eyeballs on your billboard today. Okay, well, what did that convert into? Like how did I as a brand make money off of that? Yes, impressions are important, but at some point you've got to prove that they're spending some money, I would imagine. And so we're doing sponsorships and brand deals in with these events. And it's so awesome to have the brand involved doing the integration, being on site, doing an activation with the fans. And yes, they're at a smaller level because some of our premieres, it's, you know, 25 to 35,000 people we can scale up from there, but that's a really average one that we do. And so for a brand to physically connect with that many people, it's really awesome. And they're really saturated and they're really interested and engaged too. And the fans are too and they spend money and want to show up and interact with anything tied with that creator. So it's just amazing to watch. We also talk a lot about alternative ad space. So the idea that like just out of home or just, you know, online and spending your dollars in these spaces is like increasingly, there's so many brands targeting the same eyeballs that, you know, consumers are more in control than ever. They have greater power than ever. And they can choose where to spend their time. There's so much content. How do you essentially, and if they don't even like the content, they can make their own as we've seen recently do. So it's, it's really challenging for brands to kind of figure out where to show up. But I think screening is an interesting case study because you can show up in alternative spaces. So can you talk us through the licensing side of things? Because I think that's what's really interesting to some of our listeners, particularly the brands, because that does seem like it's a sort of new channel for the creator economy. We haven't seen a whole lot of that. And I'm excited to see more of that as the creators kind of diversify and move offline maybe. Yeah. So Janet Dawoskin is a just masterful in the licensing space. She's been doing it for 30 years. She did a big chunk of the licensing stuff with Live Nation when she was with them really built that program up. And some of the brand she has been behind is just so impressive and diverse and dynamic that when I was talking to her about this screening thing that I was trying to get built up and we were discussing what are some of the things you're running into with some of these licensed brands that you're trying to work with with your traditional audience and fans and how's this all working. And so as we were going through this, we just started thinking we should really find licensing deals for these creators that were already bringing in to the fold for premieres and bringing deals and stuff because it's just a beautiful ecosystem. And then the different the differentiator is when we're bringing a creator to the table for a licensing deal, we have a way to drive sales for that licensed product in the retail space or online. And we build that all together because sometimes license deals happen. And you have just done a lot of money behind it to market it and let people know that it's happening. And that's the beautiful part of us working with creators is they are the marketing channel. Nobody knows their audience better, we don't have to spend a bunch of money on Google ads or skippable ads or any of that stuff. So it's great. And we set up at the licensing expo thinking that we would promote some of the creators that we have on our roster. We have a substantial lineup and it's been really great. I think the last time we totaled it across all of our creators, we have over a billion followers across all of them that we're representing. And so it's really fun to go to these brands and go, hey, we'd like to do a licensing deal. Here is the creator. This is how many followers they have. This is what we're doing for activations over the next 12 months. Let's do something. And so Janet is really working hard to get some really great deals done coming from the licensing expo. And we made such a splash there. You know, the first time you set up at any event, especially the investment we made, we had a very large booth because who goes and shows up in a small way. Not me. And so we did a really big booth. And the whole time I was like, okay, it'll pay off. It'll be fine. You know, because as a business owner, you just got to have a little faith sometimes. And it paid off masterfully. We had so many brands come up and they were so interested in what we were doing. It probably helped we were handing out free popcorn. So everybody loves a good snack. So we walked away with a good amount of brands that we're ready to work with the creators and we're making good connections there. So it's been a lot of fun. Yeah, for our audience, for context, for the audience, for other, I have, I learned about you guys at the licensing expo. One of our editors, Aaron Reckner was there. And she had great things to say. And she's like, you need to get them on the podcast. This is a completely new way of doing things. And I'm very interested in this. I think it's super fascinating. I wanted to ask about follower count. So you just said that one of the selling points, I guess, when you're talking to these brands that have come up is we've got this creator, they've got millions of followers. How can we work with you? In a world where niche is the new norm and there's so many creators, this idea that like a creator has to have a million followers to kind of be deemed relevant. I think is increasingly going out the window, right? And it's more about how engaged their community is. Is that something you guys are looking at? Because that's something we've been tracking for a while. Absolutely. I mean, we're kind of proving it with some of the stuff that we're working on. We have a creator that we are going to be announcing here probably in the next month that we're doing a tour style premiere event with in September, I believe it is. So we're doing multiple stops. We're only doing 10 stops with him. His his follower count, I think is in the like the five to 700,000. So in the grand scheme of things, yes, five to 700,000 people standing in my living room seems like a huge amount of people. But online when you're comparing it to your point to some of these other creators that have millions, it's not that big. But his engagement and interaction is tenfold to some of those ones that have the bigger follower counts. So we don't look at follower count when we're talking about activating the audience and trying to get them into theaters and we're doing stuff with brands. We really look at engagement. Can you activate them? How are they responding? Are the responses that you're getting positive and supportive or some of them just rage bait? And so it's an interesting thing to kind of look at. And we have a system that we built our chief revenue officer is masterful at coming up with amazing little tech systems. And so we drop the content creator, the YouTube channel, any data points we have into this system. And it creates a really good heat mapping for us to let us know where the biggest concentration of their followers are because that's how we're going to pick the theater because you see some of these stories out right now, these creators, we're in 4,000 theaters or we're in, you know, 2,000 theaters. Yes, you're in them, but are they full? Our differences, we're here to create a community and do activate the community. So our role is to sell out every theater that we are in. We don't want a theater just to have a theater that has 10 people in it and the auditorium sits 100 because those 10 people aren't going to have the same experience as a theater that's packed with 100 other people or 99 rather that are just in love with that creator and what's happening and the energy and, you know, all of that experience. So we really are focused on kind of honing in a little bit and really making sure that the experience is the best it can be. So how do you decide what works and how do you, it seems like you're the bridge screenie between the brand and the creator and you're facilitating these deals and you're integrating these cultural moments into the fans, you know, entertainment ecosystem, right, whether that's in real life, whether that's through content, whether that's through tangible tactile experiences. How do you determine where the brand naturally fits and how do you leverage that, you know, as the middleman? A big chunk of my background is working on the brand side and marrying them with different audiences and so that's how all this started and so the way that I've always done it because the way I've always done it is I just talk to the the brand that we're trying to get to sponsor and I want to know what your goals are because here's what drives me nuts because I've been in this space and, you know, having an agency too will have people reach out to us for brands that we represent and they already have a cookie cutter thing that they're like here, we want to put their logo on this and this is what we want to accomplish. We don't do that because nobody knows what the brand is wanting to accomplish better than the brand. So I just want to talk to you and see what do you want to get out of it and then what I am good out and what my team is really good at is actually taking that and going, here's the idea because that's where we came up with the chef thing from is that we have this creator that we signed that that is really big in the chef's space and fitness and health space and then we have brands that are tied in with food and beverage and that'd be a great marriage. So as I'm talking to one of these food brands, what's your goal? What do you want to do? They're trying to break into a high end audience space because they've always been known as like a mid-market company and they're launching a premium line of products next year. And so they want to get into exclusive experiences really reposition themselves. So I said, okay, let's create an experience with this creator and your brand where it is like a dinner theater, higher end experience that tickets gonna be, a little higher ends, we're gonna pair a wine tasting or whiskey tasting or something like that with the food, we're gonna activate chefs in those markets and do a bunch of different stuff. So what we're really doing is taking what does that brand want to accomplish? And then we're gonna look through our roster of creators that we are doing stuff with and figure out a really creative fun way to mesh it all together so it makes sense. - Yeah, so interesting. I wanted to, you made a very brief comment in the beginning where you talked about back rooms and obsession and this sort of shift in entertainment pipeline and I wanted to ask you your thoughts on the future of entertainment as a brand that's literally purchased in the center of it at the moment. I think it's really interesting to watch that fact that creators, if they don't, if something doesn't exist, especially amongst Gen Z and increasingly Gen Alpha, they're just gonna go out and create it themselves, right? And so it seems like the future of entertainment is something that I have been tracking for 10 years, but future of entertainment now really is creator led. It's the fact that the entertainment and Hollywood pipeline is shifting. It's the fact that creators are more in control. I mentioned Alex Earl. She's absolutely everywhere. Look at like a Whitney Levitt, even from the reality show The Mormon Wives that she's gone to dancing with the stars and she's kind of pivoted into Broadway and she's become this bonafide superstar. There's this idea that the creator economy really is the future of entertainment. Is that something that you agree with? And how do you think that Hollywood will evolve if we were maybe five, 10 years into the future? What do you think our entertainment experiences are going to look like? - I think that's going to be an interesting thing to watch because I don't even think the way that this is unfolding now is something that anybody ever thought or believed would happen with the way that, because I mean, we probably all remember when creators became a topic. And so many people, the way they always looked at influencers is just like, okay, what are they going to do? I mean, I don't remember the stat number but I just saw the other day like how much money some of these people are driving doing live shopping videos. It's insane. And then you think about like obviously when I was growing up, QVC was that you'd sit in front of the TV and kind of watch that live shopping thing too. And now it's just transitioned online. And so even when, even when there was chatter about what Marquis Plier was doing with Iron Long, oh, so many people didn't think it was going to work. And I'm like, so what if it doesn't? He's trying, that's amazing. Let's see what happens. And what I am learning, nobody does this better than a creator that owns and loves their own brand, the way that they do. They're gonna find a way to make it work. That's what I love about doing stuff in this space. They are just as aggressive and hungry and like, I'm gonna figure this out as an entrepreneur and somebody that's trying to hustle and start a business because they believe in it and they just have to shut the noise out because that's what's gonna happen is that you have to have a really strong identity of who you are and what you're capable of, I think, to be successful in any shift in any market because all it's gonna take is if you don't, somebody's gonna say something like, really, should you be doing that or do you really think that's gonna work? You just have to believe in yourself and be like, I'm gonna find a way to make this work. And I think that's what's interesting to watch is all these changes keep happening. Is it's only going to change if you have really strong-minded people that are wanting to be behind that and move it along and have a strong belief in what their capabilities are and then how to wrap your arms or another people and bring them along too and fit it all together. - And then just to wrap up, I always ask all of my guests who is somebody that they believe is creating a new version of tomorrow that is deeply inspiring to you. It could be a brand, it could be a person in your own life, a famous person, so who is your pick? - Some of the creators that we're working with just shock and army every time I hear of something that they're doing. I mean, like Brave Wilderness, we're doing some stuff with them. They have a fascinating channel and how they are taking what they're doing and really getting the audience to engage in a meaningful way is masterful and the way that they put their content together is amazing. The fun squad is a whole family that we do some stuff with. We're gonna be putting a premiere out for them. The interesting thing about working with all of these different folks is just seeing how they operate and I love creative people. Like I just, human behavior fascinates me. I wanna know how you came up with that idea and then how did you get from here to here? And so they are so good at taking something from ideation all the way through execution. And that inspires me and just shows me where we are headed 'cause I move at a fast pace, so I appreciate that too. Or they're like, yes, I have an idea. Let's go film it tomorrow and let's get it out on the screen next week and like they just move and there's not like 42 meetings in between there to figure out creative direction and lighting and all these things that a lot of people used to put a lot of weight into because I think again, the authentic moment is what's really starting to come back around which I love, love, love, love it. (upbeat music) Thank you to my guest, Liz McLeod, founder of the Entertainment and Brand Licensing Company Screamy. If you are a WGS and subscriber, look out for more trends at WGSN.com. If you're not a subscriber, please come and discover our services. We'll be back with our next episodes soon. In the meantime, you can catch the CEO of WGSN Carly Busashi next week on our other podcast, Lives of Tomorrow. I'm your host, Cassandra Napoli. Be sure to follow and subscribe to this podcast and see you next time.