The Climbing Trip That Became a Hostage Crisis

Today we're starting with the story of famous climbers Tommy Caldwell and Beth Rodin. In this story, they should have been on the trip of a lifetime, but instead they ended up kidnapped at gunpoint, trapped in the middle of a war, and forced to make an impossible decision in order to survive. Then we're heading to Utah, where two women vanished in the Uinta Mountains, well that is actually until a camera was found months later beside their bodies containing photos that challenged the official story of what actually happened. Now both these stories involve photos, but if you're listening audio only, you don't need to see the photos to actually understand what's going on, so don't sweat it. So listen on if you dare, and I also dare you to hit the follow button, it really helps our standing with Spotify, and honestly I would just really appreciate it, it takes two seconds, so thank you so much, and let's do it. Shortly after this photo was taken, these climbers found themselves caught in a death trap. And, ironically, it had nothing to do with the deadly height. You see, as these climbers rested in their portal edge, suspended over a thousand feet off of the ground by the way, bullets began to pierce the rock wall all around them. They were completely helpless, and little did they know that this would mark the start of a nightmare so shocking that there's actually some people out there that refuse to believe it's true to this day. But folks, the thing is, this story is true. Every single imaginable threat that could happen to you is true. It could possibly kill a human being was about to be unleashed on these climbers. I'm talking war, starvation, freezing temperatures, I mean, you name it. And as their situation got worse and worse and worse, the climbers were forced to confront the most important decision of their lives. They either had to accept death, or they had to pay the price to survive. I feel like I say this a lot. But this is honestly probably the most unique story that I've ever covered on my channel. And frankly, it's just very morbidly fascinating. I mean, let's be honest, that's why a lot of us are here in the first place. But I do just want you to remember that these are real people, real people that experienced real horror and trauma, especially when you find out what they did at the end of the story. And so please just show these people the utmost amount of compassion and respect. And with that, I'll see you next time. That said, let's take a virtual trip right now together to the country of Kyrgyzstan. So Kyrgyzstan is home to endless beautiful mountains and a lot of climbing routes. And of course, it's for that reason that in the year 2000, four young climbers, who were all very eager to prove themselves, began a months-long expedition in the southern region of the country. The climbers were 25-year-old John Dickey, 22-year-old Jason Smith, 20-year-old Beth Rodden, and her then-boyfriend, 22-year-old Tommy Caldwell. Now, if the last two names I just said there sound familiar to you, it's probably because Beth and Tommy are both considered some of the best climbers ever, and they've been featured in tons of popular documentaries over the years, so there's a good chance that you've heard of them before. But it's important to know that all four of these climbers were rising stars in the community back in the early 2000s. In fact, this particular expedition to Kyrgyzstan was, partially sponsored by the North Face, and these climbers hoped to spend a few weeks exploring this new and remote country, maybe climbing a few routes for the very first time in history, before returning to the U.S., with bigger climbing resumes certainly, but also epic photos and just a lot of good stories. On August 11, 2000, the group of four spent their very first night on what is known as the Yellow Wall, and it was actually Tommy's 22nd birthday. And so, suspended in their portal edges, over a thousand feet from the ground, Beth sang her boyfriend happy birthday before they all settled in for the night, excited to wake up the very next morning and continue exploring. But instead of doing this, they would end up waking up to literal gunfire. Like, you heard that right, on Tommy's very first morning as a 22-year-old, himself and the rest of his group of four would wake up to a gunfire. The group were getting shot at. I mean, can you imagine this? You're hanging in this makeshift tent a thousand feet in the air, and all of a sudden there's bullets pounding the wall behind you. You're a total sitting duck, right? And the group, they peered down to the ground below, and they saw three men kind of waving at them, three armed men, telling them to come down. Now, rappelling down to three men that were shooting at you was just about the last thing that the four climbers wanted to do, obviously. But, I mean, what choice did they have? John actually volunteered to go down first. Quite courageously volunteered, I might add, with his plan being to offer these men a pack of cigarettes. I mean, maybe that would kind of break the tension. Like, what else were they really supposed to do? The group hoped that John could quickly defuse the situation. I mean, they were literally getting shot at just three seconds earlier. But, unfortunately. That was not going to happen. In fact, the group's nightmare was actually just getting started. They were now on a track that was taking them towards pretty much the most horrifying conclusion possible. So, John spends 25 painstaking minutes rappelling down to meet these armed men. And when he finally reaches them, he offers this pack of cigarettes. But, unfortunately, the men were not interested. Instead, they. Communicate through hand gestures and broken English. They basically communicate that they would like to visit the climbers' base camp, which is located about a mile's hike away. John would nervously radio back up to his fellow climbers, who were still up on the portal edge, telling them that they needed to come down. It still wasn't clear exactly what was going on, but at this point, it was crystal clear to the group that they were essentially being kidnapped. As Tommy. Seth and Jason began making their way down the wall, climbing down slowly, their heads were spinning with questions. I mean, probably many of the same questions that you're wondering about right now. Questions like, who were these men? Why were they taking the four Americans hostage? And probably most importantly, what was going to happen to the Americans next? And I don't have an answer for all those questions, but I do have an answer for the first one. It would turn out that the. The climbers had been taken captive by a group of Islamic rebels known as the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, or IMU for short. And so as these rebels led the climbers on the hike back to their base camp, the climbers were actually able to learn a little bit more about them. So the first man's name was Abdul, and he appeared to be calling the shots, like he was the leader, if you will. And then the other two men were named Obert and. Su, respectively. Now, despite the fact that these men were armed and clearly kidnapping the young climbers, they weren't, like, behaving aggressively either. I mean, let me try to explain. Like, they weren't yelling. They weren't, like, shoving their weapons in the group's faces. They weren't even laying their hands on them at all, for that matter. They had this bizarre calmness about them. And Su, in particular, even seemed kind of friendly. Their demeanor certainly added to the confusion of the situation, as did what the climbers saw when they returned to their base camp. When John, Jason, Beth, and Tommy arrived at what used to be their camp, they found it completely ransacked. And they also found a fourth man at their campsite, and this man actually looked kind of familiar. As it would turn out, this man was not a member of the IMU, but was rather. another one of their hostages. His name was Turret. I think that's how you pronounce that. I apologize if I get his name wrong. And this gentleman was actually a member of the Kyrgyz army. The climbers had met him a few days earlier when they were kind of making their trek in. And while it was nice to see a familiar face, unfortunately, Turret had nothing but bad news to share. That's actually a bit of an understatement, to be honest. He basically told the young. climbers that the rebels had killed a number of his fellow soldiers. I mean, their blood was literally still freshly displayed on his clothing. And he told them that the rebels were basically holding him hostage so that he could help guide them through the remote mountain terrain. That's pretty much the only reason he hadn't been killed as well. And so all of the hostages were then ordered to pack up what was left of their base camp, presumably to go on some sort of trek. And they had. pretty much just about finished this task when all of a sudden, something happened that changed the rebels' demeanor from calm to vicious, pretty much in the blink of an eye. A helicopter, presumably from the Kyrgyz army, roared overhead. Abdul started to scream in broken English. And though his words weren't really clear, his message certainly was. And of course, the message was, take cover right now. And if you're responsible for the helicopter, seeing us, then well, you're dead. There was good and bad news for John, Jason, Beth, and Tommy at this point. The good news was that the helicopter passed by without noticing them, and so nobody was guilty of blowing their cover. But the bad news was that this would not be the only time that a government helicopter would fly overhead. And to make matters worse, Turret informed the group that Kyrgyz army soldiers were actively hunting for the rebels in this valley, and basically that a firefight was imminent. I mean, it wasn't a matter of if bullets started flying, it was a matter of when. Which is just insane if you think about it. I mean, somehow what had started out as this once-in-a-lifetime climbing trip for a bunch of young, blissful Americans had devolved into a war. I mean, just let that sit in for a second. The rebels and their captives left the base camp behind, carrying as much equipment and food as they could, and they presumably began marching north towards the border with Uzbekistan, at least according to Turret's hunch. They dodged more helicopters and government soldiers that were patrolling, and by the afternoon, there was just a lot of tension. Pretty much everybody realized that something was about to pop off. Beth and Tommy were mortified, thinking that their lives were about to come to an end. John and Jason were basically in survival mode, thinking about how they could potentially kill their captors and escape. And then there's Turret, who was in a whole world of his own, insisting that the rebels were going to kill him as soon as a firefight broke out, and he was basically just trying his best to come to peace with his inevitable fate. Around 3pm, the rebel fighters, set off this hasty ambush on a group of Kyrgyz fighters coming up the valley, and almost immediately, the young American climbers watched in horror as multiple soldiers were killed instantly. The group of hostages quickly ducked behind a large rock, deeming it the safest possible place to wait out the action, but one of them wouldn't remain there for very long. As the gunfight intensified, Abdul, suddenly confronted the group and asked Turret to come with him. He took him away, and then pretty much everyone knew what was going to happen next. Turret was taken out of sight, brought behind a different rock, and then two quick gunshots were heard. And then, pretty soon after that, Abdul forced the rest of the hostages, the American climbers, to move behind that very same boulder in an effort to start retreating from the battle. And so now they're all crowded behind the same boulder where Turret was just shot, and his lifeless body is kind of just sitting there. And so they're trying not to look at it, of course, but I mean, it was kind of necessary to shelter themselves, and so they really had no choice but to just kind of crouch down right next to it. I mean, just brutal stuff. And so by nightfall, there was still no clear winner of this battle, and it's at this point that Abdul decided the group needed to, to move on for whatever reason. And so they lightened their loads as much as they possibly could. You know, they basically just grabbed a small amount of food and then began kind of snaking their way up the mountains, dodging the occasional gunshot. The group would trek all the way until the early morning of August 13th. I mean, they basically hiked until they couldn't walk anymore. They then spent the next 16 plus hours hiding out in a few tiny caves, kind of sandwiched in there body to body, with their captors, until finally, night set in again, and Abdul decided that it was time to get moving again. By this point, there were only two rebels guiding the climbers, if you will. Abdul, of course, the vicious leader, and then this other man, Sue, who had clearly taken kind of a liking to the Americans. The first thing that the group needed to do once they got moving again was cross this, this raging river. They wanted to kind of make their way across the river, and they had to make their way up into the hills on the other side of it. But the problem was that the river was just too wide and too, just, just raging for them to cross it on foot. And so Abdul and Sue kind of struggled to put in place like a makeshift bridge by like tossing a log across the river. But when they did this, the log only made it about halfway across, and it basically got stuck. And so Abdul and Sue are kind of like scrambling, searching for a solution, when all of a sudden, Jason just kind of sprang into action. I mean, you have to remember that the four American climbers, you know, while they were young, they were extremely comfortable and experienced in the outdoors. Crossing dangerous rivers was something that they had all done plenty of times before. And so Jason decided to utilize his skills in this moment, much to the surprise of Tommy, Beth, and John. Jason risked his life and jumped into the river, hiding the current with every step until he was finally able to kind of push that log the rest of the way across the river, completing this makeshift bridge. Even the rebels tried to stop him, telling him that it was too dangerous, but he didn't listen and he was successful. And so the group then crossed this precarious log one by one until finally it was Abdul's turn. In a very ironic twist, Abdul actually seemed more nervous about crossing this raging river than he did about the gun battle. Jason, recognizing Abdul's nervousness, actually kind of extended a hand, offering to help him as he made his way across the slippery log. Shockingly, instead of taking Jason's hand, you know, to help him balance, Abdul actually handed him his rifle. And so for a brief moment, the automatic weapon was now in the hands of the climbers. I mean, it all happened so fast that it was hard to believe that Abdul had actually handed him his rifle. I mean, it all happened so fast, right? Even too fast, you could say. Abdul quickly crossed the log. And before anyone really had time to think about it, the weapon, well, it was back in Abdul's hands. But even though the rebels were now back in control, this river crossing was really a massive turning point for the American climbers. They realized two very important things. First of all, they realized that Abdul and Sue were not as comfortable or skilled in the mountains as they were. I mean, this river crossing was really a massive turning point for the American climbers. And so they realized that was a clear example of that. And this is something that the climbers might be able to use to escape at some point. And second of all, the climbers realized that Abdul and Sue were beginning to trust them. Why else would Abdul have handed his gun over even just for a moment? I mean, that's crazy, right? And so maybe if the climbers worked to stay on the good side of their captors, maybe they might start to trust them a little bit too much, which the climbers could then exploit. They just needed to wait for the perfect opportunity to present itself. The next few days were absolute hell for everyone. Because they had ditched a lot of their food and their gear during the battle on the 12th, the entire group were starving, dehydrated, and freezing cold pretty much every single night. They would move across these cliffs and slopes of the mountain, and they would be able to get to the top of the mountain. And so they would move across these cliffs and slopes of the mountain at night, you know, as they didn't want to get detected. They would share what little food they had, which was mostly just leftover protein bars. They would share that stuff with their captors, again, in order to remain on their good side and continue to build that trust. They would even, this is kind of weird, but like cuddle up with Abdul and Sue at night so that they could like all share their body heat and stay warm. Of course, none of the four climbers enjoyed this, but, at least Sue did seem a little bit thankful. The climbers did their best to just kind of like bury their resentment and to assist their captors and just build that trust in any way possible. And as each day passed by, it became more and more evident that this plan was actually working, especially with Sue. You got to know that Sue was actually a very young kid. He was only about 19 years old, which was actually a little bit younger than the climbers themselves. Abdul, the leader, was a good 10 to 15 years older, right? But Sue's this young kid just like them. And as time went on, Sue began to smile more. They would even joke around with him a little bit. There were moments where it almost seemed like Sue was actually on their side. But of course, that was an illusion. I mean, Sue was still holding them hostage via an automatic rifle all day, every day. And he was still taking orders from Abdul. And so by day six of their captivity, Jason, John, Tommy, and Beth were barely recognizable as the vibrant climbers who'd arrived in the area weeks earlier. They were malnourished. They were completely exhausted. And their bodies had begun breaking down to the point where they could hardly travel more than a few hundred yards per day. And of course, Abdul and Sue were in an even worse shape probably, because again, Again, they're not as comfortable traversing this difficult mountain terrain. And to make matters worse, the climbers still didn't really know where they were going. It almost seemed as though Abdul and Sue were kind of just marching them around, you know, and had shifted their focus from reaching a final destination to just kind of simply surviving each passing hour. But on the evening of night six, Abdul came up with a plan. The four American climbers and Sue would go up a mountain, climb nearly 3,000 feet up this like really steep slope up to a predetermined meeting point. Abdul would then go off on his own and he would go take a detour, grab some more food and some supplies, and then he would climb up the mountain by himself and meet them at their rendezvous point. And so. The. This is what happened. They parted ways with Abdul. And just like that, Sue was now the only person that was left to guard the four climbers. Jason and John had been pretty openly discussing the idea of killing their captors ever since the river incident happened a few days earlier. Tommy and Beth, however, they felt differently. And that's not to say that they were like staunchly opposed to, you know, using violence. It's just that they. They couldn't fathom the possibility of killing another human being, even even if this is someone who is doing them harm. And and even putting that aside, this was obviously extremely risky. I mean, if they tried and failed to kill the rebels, then they themselves would quickly become the ones who were getting killed. I mean, of course they would get turned on. And so all four of them were just silently pondering this possibility as they began to. Make their way up the mountain. And again, though they were tired for the American climbers, this was a pretty routine task, right? The train was challenging, but it was it was nothing compared to what they had done before. I mean, this is literally what they came to Kyrgyzstan to do in the first place. Climb. But for Sue, well, let's just say that he wasn't really much of a climber. That was crystal clear. His movements were clumsy. He struggled to keep up the pace. And he was. Even relying on Jason most of the time to kind of guide his hand movements, tell him where to put his hands while they climbed up this steep cliff. You have to understand that this is the kind of terrain where a fall would be fatal. I mean, there's just no other way of saying it. And the American climbers were in their element. Sue was not. Sue even slung his rifle over his his back so that he could, like, climb more stably, more freely. But this didn't really help. And the more that Sue struggled, the more that the climbers began to kind of toy with the idea of pushing him off the cliff. Like I said, a few minutes ago, Jason and John had been kind of waiting for this moment for a long time. But Beth and Tommy were absolutely terrified. I mean, Beth certainly wasn't going to be the one to do it. And Tommy didn't really think that he had it in him either. They're climbing up this steep cliff. But before they knew it, the end was basically in sight. I mean, they had almost reached the top of it. And so if anything was going to happen, it had to happen now. They were running out of time. And so Jason maneuvered himself kind of off to the side of Sue, hoping to get enough leverage to kind of push him straight off the cliff. But Sue unintentionally kind of outmaneuvered Jason. And again, Sue still had no idea about the intentions of the climbers that he was now relying on to make it up the mountain. And so at this point, they can literally see the end of the climb. I mean, there's. There's only a few more feet to go now. And so Jason and John begin to realize that what might have been their best and last opportunity to free themselves had been squandered. But as fate would have it, the next few hours would leave zero time for this type of reflection. Because in an instant, everyone gasped. A lot of them screamed. And then all of a sudden, time stood still. Flash forward a few hours later, and Jason, John, Tommy, and Beth were literally diving into a Kyrgyz army outpost building. They were then given fresh food for the first time in days, by the way. They were given water, warm clothing, and pretty much anything else that they could ask for. Against all odds, the climbers had escaped. Their nightmare was over, and they were now completely free. Over the next few days. The government of Kyrgyzstan, as well as the U.S. embassy, well, they kind of worked together to bring the climbers back to the United States. Cameras and a lot of media attention kind of followed them around everywhere for a while after their return. Once they arrived back home, the climbers clung to their reunion with their family and loved ones. But their nervous looks and demeanor hinted at a very dark truth. A secret that they carried. From that final, fateful night on the mountain. And eventually, the full story would come out. And when it did, it would shock pretty much everyone. Tommy, the shy, quiet young man who would never hurt anyone, who would never harbor any violence. Well, Tommy had done the unthinkable. You see, on that steep climb up the mountain with Sue, at the very top, right before they had almost finished it. Tommy glanced over at Beth. And they silently agreed that it was time to act. And so, in a split second, Tommy rushed forward. He grabbed Sue's rifle strap. And he pulled him off the cliff. And sent him on a 2,000 foot tumble down into the darkness. That was the last that the climbers ever saw of him. Tommy was immediately distracted. I mean, he had just taken a life. Like, how could he have done such a thing? But of course, his fellow climbers reassured him. I mean, Tommy's actions were obviously necessary. He had saved all of their lives. And also, for what it's worth, of course, they didn't know this at the time. But Sue actually survived the fall and would later go on to be arrested. And so, Tommy's desperate act, so unlike him, set the climbers free. After this, they climbed back down the mountain and they hiked and hiked and hiked until they reached that government army outpost, at which point they were finally rescued. And yet, despite his courageous act, and despite the fact that it basically saved him, it also opened up the door to years and years of trauma and hardship afterwards, which I think is very important for you all to know. Tommy and Beth would continue their careers and eventually both become household names in the world of climbing. John and Jason would go on to lead more private lives. I didn't really find too much about them, and so I think we need to respect their privacy here. And certainly, I encourage all of you to leave some love for all of them in the comments, and especially to Tommy, I guess I'll say, for acting so courageously and saving the lives of his friends. If you want to learn even more details about this story, as well as learn about the lives of Beth and Tommy, well, I encourage you. I encourage you to check out the following two books, which I have linked in the description. First is Beth's book called A Light Through the Cracks, and second is Tommy's book, which is aptly titled The Push. That was a story about what people are capable of doing when survival leaves them with no good options. But over in Utah, the mystery came afterwards, when two women disappeared into the mountains, and the only real witness left behind was a camera. Listen on, because this is a weird one. And if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe to the channel. And if you're enjoying the show, please hit the follow button and leave me a five-star review. It's the best way to support my content, and it's completely free. Thank you very much. In September of 2003, two women disappeared without a trace in the Utah wilderness. Authorities were left with zero answers for nine whole months. But then, in June of 2004, a search and rescue team accidentally found something unbelievable. They found a camera with 23 undeveloped photos inside, lying amongst the skeletal remains. This camera had survived months of rain and snow. It had waited silently as the two women passed away, decayed, and had their remains preyed upon by wild animals. But, miraculously, the film was still intact. And now, it was ready to reveal the truth about what happened to these missing women. Their names were Carol Weatherton and Kim Beverly, a mother and daughter on vacation from Atlanta, Georgia. Investigators wanted to know exactly what happened. And so, they sent the camera away to Montana, where a special lab had the ability to extract the film without damaging it further. And trust me, it was damaged. Months and months of exposure to moisture in the elements meant that there was already a pretty good chance the photos wouldn't even come out at all. But as fate would have it, the lab was successful. They developed all 23 photos with only a little bit of damage. And these photos painted a very eerie picture. And when these photos were released to the public, it became clear that the police explanation of what happened didn't really make sense. Now, because of these found photos, investigators could see clearly that the two women had died. had traveled far and wide around mount watson which is a mountain in the western part of the mountains there were photos of several major peaks and lakes in the area but four photos in particular showed carol the mother in her her final hours i don't know how else to say it it sounds horrible we're assuming that her daughter kim was the one that actually took the photos and the first of the carol photos we'll call them shows her smiling in front of some trees the second photo shows carol sitting peacefully by a lake wearing these long khaki pants a white t-shirt and a red baseball cap she's still smiling in this photo but especially with the context that you're about to get over the course of this video it feels quite sinister i don't know it's cloudy out and the dark green fir trees across the lake almost look like these statues watching her i'm probably thinking into this too much but the next photo featuring carol has her looking out across the forest from an elevated position wearing the same exact clothes with her face turned away from the camera it's just as cloudy out and from this high up the tops of the trees can be seen stabbing into the clouds there's a lonely mountaintop off in the distance and eerie green lines run across the photo caused of course by the water damage and these lines make it feel like a hazy almost forgotten memory but it turns out this was the final photo of carol and the one that seemed to tell investigators the most in this photo carol had on a blue rain jacket with the hood pulled tight around her face the weather clearly had turned for the worse and carol and kim were caught unaware right the final photo on the film roll was of a meadow on the western side of mount watson not very far from the top of the mountain and the top of the mountain was the top of the mountain far from where the two women were eventually found and of course when they took it they had no idea that it would be the last photo that they would ever take since their bodies were eventually found only feet away from what's called the middle fork trail on the western side of the mountain investigators decided the women had hiked north from a very popular landmark called long lake they ruled that the women had somehow gotten lost and froze to death in the low temperatures and occasional rain from that day and you'd think that this would be the end of the story right like i just told you everything however again when these photos were released to the public and when some local hikers got their hands on them they realized that something something was off forest ranger brenda bushell was the last person to see 58 year old mother carol weatherton and her 40 year old daughter kim beverly alive on monday september 8 2003 she met them at the crystal lake trailhead and commented that they weren't quite dressed for the weather like they needed to dress warmer right she wasn't sure if the women had heated her warning and found some warmer clothing or if they just decided to go hiking anyways and if they did go hiking underdressed then well that would be a big big mistake the temperatures were as low as 33 degrees fahrenheit on the 8th and the 9th and then even dropped to a below freezing 28 degrees on the 10th and then you add in the fact that it had already been raining regularly in the last few weeks and that's when they found out that they weren't dressed in the area on those days and well you can see why this is a recipe for disaster the women were reported missing on saturday september 13th after they missed their flight home and by 2 p.m on sunday the 14th 2003 sheriff dave edmonds launched an investigation the jeep that the women had rented was found near the crystal lake trailhead and a search of their lodging turned up evidence that indicated the women wanted to hike the nearby clyde lake loop and so the sheriff brought out a 20-person search team as well as a helicopter to look around the woods he even brought out search dogs and horses jeeps like all the things to quickly cover the rocky terrain and to hopefully find the two women alive and it's kind of like morbidly interesting to think in hindsight that the camera that carol and kim had basically charted a path right to them but of course that wasn't doing anyone any good at the moment the camera was was just as lost as they were the search team was able to find the two women and they were able to find the two women and they searched dogs led the rescue team down the clyde lake loop trail and looming over them at almost 11 000 feet was a place called the notch which is an iconic mountain in the area that exists like super high up there basically in a sub-arctic zone it's only without snow from about june to september and so if the women really were up there the clock was definitely ticking first snow could happen pretty much any day at this point and the women were likely dying from exposure with every moment that passed they searched and searched monday turned to tuesday which turned to wednesday which turned to thursday and still there was no sign of the women the searchers basically had to give up on hoping that they'd hear them calling out from some mountaintop and instead look for pale freezing incapacitated survivors barely clinging on to life and that was the best case scenario but of course that didn't happen either there was just no sign of the women the searchers were unable to find them and the searchers were unable to find any of the women they were able to find the women they were able to find but they were unable to find any of them i mean absolutely nothing about this entire story made any sense or at least i should say at the time it didn't make sense because carol and kim's camera would later show that they took a path far outside the norm for most tourists but why why would they have done that by friday the 19th jim weatherton and his stepson keith arrived to help in the search jim was obviously desperate to find his way to the rescue team and he was able to find his way to the rescue team and he was able to find his way to the rescue team and he was able to find his wife and his stepdaughter reports have wife and his stepdaughter reports have talked about how close carol and kim were and how they talked about how close carol and kim were and how they were used to traveling together and kim was were used to traveling together and kim was actually a nurse and so in theory at least she actually a nurse and so in theory at least she would know how to keep herself and her mother would know how to keep herself and her mother patched up if they needed like first aid and so patched up if they needed like first aid and so the family held out some hope however the sheriff's the family held out some hope however the sheriff's department wanted to keep their department wanted to keep their expectations in check right they knew that the most likely expectations in check right they knew that the most likely explanation was that the women explanation was that the women had gotten lost and now were either dead or dying from had gotten lost and now were either dead or dying from exposure once again and if you go off trail exposure once again and if you go off trail in this terrain i mean i've hiked in the uintas a in this terrain i mean i've hiked in the uintas a little bit it's very rocky there's tons of these little bit it's very rocky there's tons of these steep cliffs and boulder fields that require you steep cliffs and boulder fields that require you to like wind your way around especially if you go to like wind your way around especially if you go off trail i mean you can think you're going in a off trail i mean you can think you're going in a straight line only to scramble over some boulders straight line only to scramble over some boulders then look up and realize you have no idea which then look up and realize you have no idea which which mountain is in front of you in which which mountain is in front of you in which direction is even north right and i don't direction is even north right and i don't know why this is but for some reason search and rescue know why this is but for some reason search and rescue felt compelled to like get jim to realize felt compelled to like get jim to realize this and so they actually took him as well as keith just a this and so they actually took him as well as keith just a little ways off of the trail and then left little ways off of the trail and then left them alone for a second to find their own way back and them alone for a second to find their own way back and the men apparently thought this would be easy the men apparently thought this would be easy but within minutes predictably they were lost and so but within minutes predictably they were lost and so after this they truly understood the gravity of after this they truly understood the gravity of carol and kim obviously could have could have carol and kim obviously could have could have gotten lost in the exact same way now obviously gotten lost in the exact same way now obviously very quickly search and rescue came back to jim very quickly search and rescue came back to jim and keith and led them to safety and pretty soon and keith and led them to safety and pretty soon after the search wound down the police placed after the search wound down the police placed missing person posters at all the trailheads missing person posters at all the trailheads and they encouraged hikers and hunters in the and they encouraged hikers and hunters in the area to keep an eye out but there's no way to say it area to keep an eye out but there's no way to say it the search was basically coming to an end and by the search was basically coming to an end and by late september sheriff dave edmonds consulted his late september sheriff dave edmonds consulted his record books trying to figure out just how many record books trying to figure out just how many people had gone missing like this in the uintas people had gone missing like this in the uintas without ever being found right the number that he without ever being found right the number that he discovered was kind of surprising but not for the discovered was kind of surprising but not for the reason that i would have suspected so sheriff dave reason that i would have suspected so sheriff dave edmonds found that a few dozen people went missing edmonds found that a few dozen people went missing in the uintas every year but they were almost in the uintas every year but they were almost always found either dead or alive through his always found either dead or alive through his research he discovered that only three people had research he discovered that only three people had ever gone missing and never been found ever gone missing and never been found in the uinta mountains and so it certainly seemed that in the uinta mountains and so it certainly seemed that carol and kim would be added to that number carol and kim would be added to that number it wasn't until june of 2004 that the snow melted it wasn't until june of 2004 that the snow melted enough to where search and rescue could resume enough to where search and rescue could resume activities in the mountains on saturday june 26th activities in the mountains on saturday june 26th at 11 30 a.m in the morning a search and rescue at 11 30 a.m in the morning a search and rescue team was conducting training exercises 2.5 miles team was conducting training exercises 2.5 miles from the crystal lake trailhead and they hadn't from the crystal lake trailhead and they hadn't even been training for an hour before they came even been training for an hour before they came across a sheer slope covered in rocks across a sheer slope covered in rocks and there in the center was this strange little alcove made and there in the center was this strange little alcove made of two large boulders pine branches of two large boulders pine branches were sticking out of it along with a piece of white blanket were sticking out of it along with a piece of white blanket like that's not good and so they like that's not good and so they went to inspect this and as they got closer their eyes went wide went to inspect this and as they got closer their eyes went wide with horror first they saw strange with horror first they saw strange bright white jagged bits of something scattered around the bright white jagged bits of something scattered around the alcove and as they looked closer they alcove and as they looked closer they became painfully clear what these were they were became painfully clear what these were they were human bones picked over by wild animals human bones picked over by wild animals then they found human belongings there was a water then they found human belongings there was a water bottle with water still inside of it and in bottle with water still inside of it and in hindsight water had not been carol and kim's hindsight water had not been carol and kim's friend that day but rather their enemy some matches found friend that day but rather their enemy some matches found nearby also underscored this it seemed that nearby also underscored this it seemed that the women weren't able to light a fire even the women weren't able to light a fire even though they apparently tried searchers also though they apparently tried searchers also found a map and this was another item that seemed to have found a map and this was another item that seemed to have been useless to them somehow i mean clearly been useless to them somehow i mean clearly they hadn't been able to navigate their way back to they hadn't been able to navigate their way back to their car even though this alcove was only a their car even though this alcove was only a few miles from the trailhead there were also bits of few miles from the trailhead there were also bits of clothing clothing car keys even a first aid kit, all items that had failed them. But as searchers looked through these items, they finally found the one item that hadn't failed. It was, of course, the camera, which was somehow preserved in the middle of these remains. The bones were sent to the Utah State Medical Examiner's Office for identification, and DNA evidence showed that the bones most likely belonged to Carol and Kim. But the bones could only confirm what police obviously already assumed, that the women had passed away. But the camera, that was different. It was a true miracle that had the potential to change this whole case. It could almost speak for these women, showing how they died and maybe even bringing some closure to their family. That would have been best case scenario, I guess, and maybe it did bring the family some closure. I don't know. But what I do know, is that the photos didn't really bring the investigation any closure, but rather they revealed some flaws in the official police narrative. So the best that Search and Rescue could tell, the two women had started the day at Long Lake to the south and then traveled north, where they eventually became lost. And for some local hikers, the photos told a very different story. I now need to introduce you to someone that is very, very crucial in this entire case, someone I haven't even mentioned. That would be local journalist and hiker, Dave Cawley. He's written extensively about this case, and he's actually done his best to match the photos from the camera that was found near Kim and Carol's bodies to different areas of the mountains. And I certainly can't speak for Dave, but through my research, it seems that he was kind of in the camp of people who disagreed with the police narrative. So first of all, he thought it was very odd that the women were found near the Middle Fork. Trail, which leads away from Long Lake, especially given the fact that this is more of like a horse trail and it wasn't even marked on most maps at the time. And second, materials found in Carol and Kim's lodgings and their Jeep suggest that they were interested in the Clyde Lake Loop Trail, which is like a ways east of where they were ultimately found. In fact, this was the main place that the search dogs had actually caught their scent. The police narrative tried to explain this by saying that the women had actually been hiking two different days, one day at Clyde Lake and then one day by Long Lake. But this was the third thing that didn't really make sense to Dave. Apparently the weather on that second day hadn't been very good. And so why would Carol and Kim have set out in the cold and rain only wearing light clothing to hike a trail that wasn't even marked on most maps? Like, what is that? This was a mystery that only the photos could solve. And so Dave, set out to match each photo that was found on Carol and Kim's camera to a place in the Uinta Mountains in order to try to like fully map their journey. Now, unfortunately, I wasn't able to license the photos that Dave took, but he literally went around looking at the photos from their camera and then trying to take his own photo to match it. And I can't show you his photos, but I'll describe it. So he followed the women's picture trail around the loop that they were supposedly hiking. And some of the photos could easily be matched to views of the horizon, you know, where the mountaintops and the tree lines were visible. In fact, the very first photo on the women's camera roll was a bald mountain to the east, which I've hiked before. Kind of glad I didn't know this story at the time. It would have been a little creepy. Other photos were a lot more difficult to match. For instance, the very first photo of Kim, which was only the second on the roll. It's this medium shot of her in front of a lake and some trees with no horizon. And so it's obviously not going to be easy for Dave to see. And so it's not going to be easy to match to the views of the horizon. And so, the third photo seems to be of the same lake just without Carol in the shot. And in his writings, Dave wonders if this perhaps could be the nearby ponds lake or even Lily lake, but that would throw a wrench into his plans because those lakes are earlier on the trail than the view of bald mountain from the first shot. So this would suggest that the women either backtracked or that the lab got the photos out of order, which was entirely possible. And if that was the case, that would obviously make it even harder for Dave to piece together Carol and Kim's trail. However, despite this, the rest of the photos seem to follow a fairly clear order. And by the way, we've done our best to find all of the original photos that Carol and Kim took, but I'm not sure if we're going to be able to get all of them. So just bear with us. If there's some gaps here, photos four through six and nine through 18, all matched up along the Clyde lake loop photos, seven and eight were just of some rock. On the ground that were impossible for Dave to place. And you can't help, but be a little frustrated that they, obviously they didn't waste these shots. They didn't know at the time, you know, clearly, but you know, in terms of the investigation, they're a little wasted because who knows what more information that those photos could have given us if they had been of identifiable features like more lakes or mountains. And this is important because after photo 19 is where things get a little strange. So Dave couldn't place photo 19 as quickly as some of the others, because it wasn't on the Clyde loop trail at all. Uh, just before the women were supposed to start heading south on the loop back towards the trailhead, they instead left the loop and headed west. And I know this is all kind of hard to follow. So just bear with me. Dave followed their photos and eventually found himself all the way north of Mount Watson, which is the big landmark that towers to the west of the Clyde lake loop. And this is a very thickly wooded, very rocky area. Again, as search and rescue would later show the women's loved ones, you can easily get turned around and maybe think that Mount Watson is something else entirely, maybe notch mountain or vice versa. And then suddenly you don't know which direction is which the final batch of photos 19 through 23 were by hidden lake a lake that's north of Mount Watson. Nestled in between some trees, right? Dave wondered if the women somehow knew about this lake and specifically were trying to go find it. And if that was in fact what they did, it would have been a very deadly decision. Photo 21 is where Carol is now seen wearing her rain jacket. And it seems like the weather had kind of caught up to them by this point in their detour. No, I know that most of you know this, but the weather in the mountains can be crazy. The Uintas are no exception. In some ways, the Uinta mountains are like this alien planet with some weird orbit around the sun. For instance, in September, it can literally go from summer to winter in just a day, which means rain can just as quickly turn to ice or snow. And any local would have seen this. And honestly, a lot of experienced hikers would have seen this and basically turned right around and gone back the way they came. But for some reason, Carol and Kim did not do this. And so with no pictures left to guide him, Dave had to kind of think a little bit outside the box. The remains were found to the south of the final photo on the film roll. And it's hard to tell the exact distance from a map, but it seems to have been roughly around a mile or so. And the only trail on that side of the mountain is the Middle Fork Trail that I mentioned earlier where the women were found. But as Dave and some other local hikers noted, trail guides at the time didn't even have that trail marked on them. And so by going south, the women were either just trying to circle around the mountain or they were genuinely lost and maybe saw that footpath and thought it would lead them somewhere, right? As Dave made his own journey over these jagged boulders in the area, he imagined how much harder it would have been if he was doing it in September during freezing rain, right? The women were wearing cotton, which can be deadly if it gets wet in cold weather. And the temperatures weren't, like, freezing, per se, but if the women were soaking wet, the weather was close enough to freezing that it would have been a really, really bad time, especially if there was even just a light breeze. They would have been at serious risk for hypothermia. And then on top of all of that, the rain would have definitely made the rocks very, very slippery. And so with all of this, Dave started to form a theory. He believed it was possible that one of the women had maybe slipped and hurt themselves on this treacherous terrain. And then they probably started to move very, very slowly, and eventually darkness set in. They were likely already freezing cold and were very scared by the idea of continuing to travel in the dark and the rain. And so eventually they made one final decision to camp in that alcove. Dave argues that they probably died the night of the 8th or maybe early in the morning on the 9th. And again, the police theory is that they may have gone home after doing the Clyde Lake Loop on the 8th and then gone back out and tried the Middle Fork Trail on the 9th. And that's how they ended up there. But Dave finds that very unlikely given their photo trail. He has done the most investigation into this disappearance by far. And so I'm trying to give him a lot of credit here. And I'm personally also inclined to believe his theory for reasons that we're never going to know. The women left the Clyde Lake Loop and went off on their own into a much more dangerous area. They eventually became hypothermic from a mix of rain, low temperatures. and poor clothing choices. And whether they were injured or not, they presumably got lost and then eventually died from exposure. Their bones were too damaged by wild animals to ever be able to determine if one of them was injured before dying. But there is one last thing that I find really interesting that I want to mention here. Dave Cawley researched cameras at the time and found that the women's camera was likely one that had a 24 picture roll, and yet there were only 23 pictures developed. And it's possible, certainly, that the women just never took that final picture. But Dave also wonders if maybe they did, and it was too private for the family to share. Maybe there's a final picture of the mother and daughter together, like right there at the end. And look, that is total speculation, but it does make you wonder. And also, what if I told you that this story wasn't the only time a trail of photos revealed the story of a missing hiker literally in the same mountains, in the Uinta Mountains? So years later, there was another camera that did the exact same thing. But this time, the scale was much, much larger. 77 photos revealing a near full trip through the Uinta Highline Trail. Eric Robinson had a very epic life as a hiker. He had hiked all over Australia, where he had immigrated to as a teen. And as an adult, he had even traveled to Nepal with his wife, Marilyn. I'm telling you guys, Eric was a very experienced hiker who could handle himself in a huge variety of terrain. And so in 2011, at the age of 63, he decided to hike the Highline Trail in the Uinta Mountains. And this is quite a long journey. It's around 100 miles long. You have to picture the Uinta Mountains as a big, like, fish skeleton when from above. They run east-west instead of north-south, which is kind of unique for a mountain range this big, especially. And the Highline Trail cuts right through all of it. And as a thru-hiker myself, I can tell you, like, the Highline Trail is no joke. I mean, I'd like to do it someday, but it's pretty intimidating, even for someone who's done the AT and the PCT and a lot of other trails. Like, it is, it is out there. So out there, in fact, that, you know, that big wilderness area that Carol and Kim were hiking in from our last story? Well, to go back to the fish example, that was literally just, like, the head of the fish, a tiny little sliver. Eric was going to start at the tail of the fish and then hike all along the spine the entire full length of the mountains. He was planning to take 10 days to do this from July 28th to August 7th. And just like Carol and Kim, Eric took a camera with him on this trip. However, this was years after Carol and Kim's story, which meant that, you know, new technology had come out, digital cameras, essentially. Eric would take a digital camera to document his entire journey. And little did he know, the photos that he took along the way would eventually map a route that Search and Rescue would spend literal years trying to piece together. Now, Eric had arranged for someone to pick him up at the very end of his hike, because, you know, this is like a point to point. You start and end in different locations. But when August 7th came and went, and Eric was supposed to be picked up, well, he didn't arrive. And at first, there was some hope that perhaps he decided to pivot for some reason and, you know, hike out to a different trailhead. Maybe he'd still show up at the airport for his flight to Vancouver. But no, he missed that, too. At this point, Eric Robinson was officially missing. The Uinta Mountains are so wide that they cross into three different counties. And in this case, the disappearance was assigned to Duchesne County Police. They ended up waiting 24 hours. And when Eric still didn't show up, they, of course, started looking. But as you can imagine, this was incredibly daunting. Like, it's hard for me to imagine just because I know the Uintas so well. To put it in perspective, it was basically impossible for police to search the small little area that Carol and Kim went missing in. But now they had to search basically the entire mountain range. This is like textbook definition of a needle in a haystack. And you might be thinking, well, at least it was early August. You know, unlike our last story, you know, we're still firmly, in summer. And like, all I can say is that, again, the Uintas are just no joke. In 2011, they had gotten so much snow in the previous winter that there was a ton still left on the Highline Trail, even by August. Right. And so Eric was therefore technically at risk for hypothermia, even in the middle of the summer, just like our last victims were. There was a lot of things going against this investigation. But the large search area did have one, like, strange positive. It meant that there were a lot of opportunities for other hikers to have seen Eric. And sure enough, shortly into the investigation, a witness came forward. On August 2nd, scout leader Russ Alston was hiking up the Yellowstone Creek Trail with members of his troop and some fellow DATs. And as they traveled north, they saw none other than Eric Robinson coming towards them. And when he told them that he was hiking the entire Highline Trail, he said, they were quite surprised. You see, they were not on the Highline Trail. The Yellowstone Creek Trail is a north-south trail five miles below the Highline Trail, almost like a rib bone coming off the main spine of our fish skeleton. So Eric was obviously off course. And he explained to them that he had to divert from the Highline Trail due to heavy snow. And so they pulled out their maps and did their best to help him find a route back to the Highline. And once that was done, Eric headed south and they continued north. They had no idea that they would be some of the last people to ever see Eric alive. And so after this, the camera that was currently resting in Eric's pack would be the last link between his life and his death. This sighting of Eric was very helpful, but ultimately it didn't lead to him being found. After two weeks of searching, the police had no choice but to end their formal investigation. Marilyn returned to the scene and said, which is just super sad. I mean, the mountains had simply swallowed up her husband. And after this, five whole years would pass before there would be any new break in the case. But then in August of 2016, a hiker named Kelvin Judd was hiking with his family in an area of the Uintas called Alsop Pass on the western side of the range. And this was quite far from where Eric had started and fairly close to where Eric had started. And so he was able to find a way to get back to his family. So as the Judd family walked along the bottom of some cliffs, they noticed a bright red backpack partially buried beneath some rocks. They walked forward and they were shocked to find, can you imagine this, to find a skeleton attached to the backpack. And so they kind of looked inside the backpack and they found a GPS, a location beacon, a bear canister, and a digital camera. And they had found Eric Robinson after all of this time. Since Eric had made it that far west, he was now actually in Summit County, which is the same jurisdiction as our first story, ultimately. And it shows you how complicated and difficult this case was, even just on a logistical level. I mean, we're talking about so much surface area, so many different organizations and jurisdictions, all that stuff. And by the time he was found, there wasn't a ton to investigate, and what I mean by that is that the elements hadn't really left much of Eric's body after five years. And so authorities seem to assume that he somehow fell and then was buried by the rubble. And Alsop is actually a fairly popular area in the Uintas, and so it's surprising that no one found him even earlier. But then again, we're talking about so much territory, it's definitely possible, even probable in my opinion, that many hikers just barely missed him over the years. Eric's remains are known to be one of the most important items in the history of the Uintas, and so we're going to talk a little bit more about that in a moment. But before we do that, I want to talk a little bit about what happened to Eric. So Eric went to Maryland all the way back in Australia, and consider that the last time she saw Eric, they would have said goodbye, expecting to reunite in just a few short weeks. But then after that farewell, it was just silence forever. The man that she loved was lost to the wilderness in a foreign country. For five whole years, she had to back in Australia once again, and quickly retrieved the memory card. She plugged it into her computer and then marveled at 77 photos from Eric's final trip. It was almost like her husband had finally come home in a strange way. There were photos of Eric that other hikers had taken of him at different trailheads, and so at the very least, she got to see his smiling face one last time. And now with 77 photos to trace Eric's journey, it was possible to do the same thing over and over again. And that meant that none other than Utah reporter Dave Colley entered the story, the very same reporter who had retraced Carol and Kim's steps. In 2023, David got copies of Eric's photos from Maryland and then took them out into the Uintas once again. And once again, he painstakingly compared the photos to landmarks along the Highline Trail, and found that they were all taken from the trail. And so, the story of Eric's trip to claimed. However, in general, the photos show a lot of green, open meadows with blue skies above. It seemed like a pretty safe and very beautiful trip. But as Dave kept going through the photos, he found that the latter part of the trip became a bit more difficult. The mountains in the photos became steeper and featured more and more snow. The final few photographs are of Dead Horse Pass, which is a steep mountain in the western Uintas. And based on Eric's GPS device, he deviated a bit from the Highline Trail in this location. Now, typically, Dead Horse Pass allows access to Alsop Lake. But for some reason, Eric seems to have chose a different path when he got here, maybe once again due to the snow. And it seems as though while he was looking for a detour in this area, he somehow slipped and fell. And this is just so sad because Eric had sort of lost his way in this area. And so he's trying to find a way to get out of this area. So he's trying to find a way to get out of this area. And so he's trying to So much experience. He had worked so hard in the mountains over the years. He had built up so many skills in the mountains. But as always, all it took was one wrong move to not just end his hiking career, but to end his life. The Uintas have a very dark lore around them. A lot of these disappearances are so mysterious that some locals have even come to call the area the Uinta Triangle, you know, kind of like the Bermuda Triangle. But the Bermuda Triangle doesn't, tend to leave witnesses. And at least in our first two cases today, the cameras ended up acting as those witnesses, allowing the deceased hikers' loved ones at least some form of closure. But these mountains aren't always that kind. And sometimes they leave no trace at all. Let's go back to August 20th, 2004, about a year after Carol and Kim went missing, and just about three miles east of where they were eventually found. 12-year-old Garrett Wardsley was on a fishing trip with his dad, Kevin, and some friends, and they were camped at Kubrinth Lake, one of about a thousand lakes in the Uinta Mountains. Garrett was like your classic innocent, likable 12-year-old kid. He had braces and a big gap at the front of his teeth. And on this morning, he got up with his dad right around 8am to go fishing on the lake and hopefully to catch something for their breakfast. They were sitting by this crystal clear water, and Garrett, as many boys his age do, got a little bit restless. Somehow, he got his feet wet, soaking his socks in his shoes, and temperatures were already in the 30s for the season, and so he probably wasn't very comfortable and he really wanted to go change. He wanted to go back to camp. However, his dad, Kevin, didn't want to give up on fishing just yet. The fishing is amazing in the Uinta, so I don't really blame him. And so Kevin talked to Garrett and told him that he trusted him to make his own way back to camp. And it's not like he was sending his son off on like a, you know, 12-mile journey, through the woods by himself. Camp was only about 120 paces away from the lake. And so Kevin watched Garrett walk away, keeping an eye on him as he started to deviate from the trail a little bit. Kevin even yelled at his rambunctious son to stay on the path. And Garrett did get back on track, and eventually he disappeared from view. But after about 30 minutes, his dad was very surprised that Garrett hadn't returned yet. And so he decided to walk back to camp to see what was going on. And when he got there, his heart sank. Garrett was not there, and the other boys at camp hadn't seen him either. They immediately began searching and calling out Garrett's name. Kevin, for his part, tried to keep calm. He thought that Garrett surely couldn't have gotten that far. I mean, he was probably just messing around. But then again, he had been cold in his wet shoes and wet clothing, and so things could go bad pretty quickly. They searched and searched as much as they could before finally, Kevin had to go back to camp. And so they went back to camp. And so Kevin, for his part, had to admit to himself that something was really, really wrong here. By 10.52am, he had called the police, and within hours, there was a manhunt underway with hundreds of people out there looking for Garrett. Ultimately, this would be a repeat of the early days in the Carroll and Kim case, and in all the worst ways. Days passed without any clues. Garrett was just nowhere to be seen. And as the week went on, authorities had to acknowledge that if he was found, he would likely be either near death from hypothermia, or more likely, already gone. And this is truly the most horrifying story from the Uintas. I mean, they're all bad, obviously, but you get what I'm saying. This little boy had disappeared in a space of just a few yards in what might as well have been the blink of an eye. And this time, unlike our previous two stories, there was no camera waiting for searchers to uncover. On August 25th, there was one manhunt underway with hundreds of people out there looking for Garrett. And as the week went on, the searchers found a Nike sock that likely belonged to Garrett. And the location that they found this in was a shore near the lake, like just a series of seemingly endless jagged rocks. And so if Garrett had gone this way and presumably became barefoot, his feet would have been extremely cold and, not to mention, prone to injury on this brutal terrain. And it's also strange to me that just one sock was found. Like, where is the other sock? Where are his shoes, for that matter? And as I've made clear, this terrain is just really random and wild. And the truth is that the rest of Garrett might have only been like a few feet away, buried under rocks and foliage, and everyone just barely missed him. And of course, with a case this mysterious, your mind can't help but think about maybe an animal attack or even more far-fetched would be like a kidnapping. Although I don't really know about that because they were. you know, out in the backcountry. But regardless, another massive search was organized a year later in 2005 by Garrett's parents. As many as 550 volunteers at a time combed through the woods once more, and they did recover some bones, but those were eventually found to belong to animals. Ultimately, the family would never find Garrett's body. This was a true Uinta disappearance. To this day, no one has ever found anything. No one knows what happened, but maybe someday, just like in our previous two stories, a new clue or perhaps a body will be revealed. And speaking of things being revealed, it's an incredible thing when a camera reveals a missing person's final moments. Incredible in like a weird way, you get what I'm saying. I mean, it's almost like the dead have come back to life to tell us their story before finally moving on. And I don't know, I'm probably reading into this more than I should be, but. But with these three stories, we can see how meaningful that it can be when something like a camera of discovery happens, and how painful it is when it doesn't, like in our last story with Garrett. And so on your next hike, don't forget to take some pictures, because they may just be the final thing that tells your story. But again, I think I'm reading into this too much.