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216. The CIA’s Secret Meeting in Moscow - What’s Trump Hiding?

36m 21s

216. The CIA’s Secret Meeting in Moscow - What’s Trump Hiding?

Why is Trump downplaying CIA Director John Ratcliffe’s visit to Russia? Is Trump going to withdraw US troops from Europe? And, what can America learn from Dolly Parton? Join Katty Kay and Anthony Scaramucci as they answer all these questions and more. Summer sale is here: get an annual membership for a third off with code SUMMER26. That's ad-free listening, every bonus episode, and full access to our exclusive members' series. Sale ends August 31st, so grab it before summer's over. This episode is sponsored by eToro. As with all investing, your capital is at risk. Visit http://www.etoro.com/A131776_TClick.aspx Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/POLITICS ⁠Buy your tickets for our North America tour here⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up to our free newsletter here⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RestPoliticsUS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RestPoliticsUS⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Email: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Editor: Kieron Leslie Social Producer: Charlie Johnson Assistant Producer: Alfie Rowe Producers: Fiona Douglas, India Dunkley Executive Producer: Tom Whiter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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6134 Words, 33013 Characters

Something strange is happening in Moscow. CIA director John Ratcliffe has made a secret trip to Russia, allegedly to warn against an attack on NATO. But I've been told by a senator today that there could be a bigger threat coming. The real question is why is Trump stamping on his own CIA director and denying that this was about a red line? I think there's something going on here, Cadi, but we'll get into that. And after the death of an American icon, Dali Parton, we ask, "What can her legacy teach us?" Can the most beloved woman in America show a divided country had a heal? This episode is brought to you by Etoro. A tariff of spending plan, a regulatory change, it can all start just as the first line of a speech. But it sets in motion things that can reach far beyond Washington and unfold for years to come. That's right, Cadi. Mark has moved on expectations, not just events, investors are constantly weighing. What a decision could mean for companies, sectors, and the wider economy. So Etoro is an investing platform where you can access a wide range of markets and explore how political and economic developments could affect them. You could also learn from the global community of investors and see how people around the world are interpreting the same news. As with all investing, your capital is at risk, see Etoro.com/trippus for full terms. Welcome to the rest is politics, US, I'm Cadi Kay. And I'm Anthony Scaramucci. Before we get to Russia, have you spent the last day singing Dali Parton songs because I suddenly have? Well, I mean, they've been ringing through the house. Listen, my wife is a country music fan and they've been ringing through the house. I will say this, Dali Parton has been with me my whole life. You know, I saw her on the Ed Sullivan show when I was a kid with my grandmother and we've watched their whole career and she is an iconic figure. You said to me when she passed, wow, you know, the democratic socialist and the mega people, they both love Dali Parton, imagine that, right? It must be about the only one. Anyway, I think she's a rosetta stone of American culture. Let me see something there. Okay. Let's get into Russia. We've had John Ratcliffe, the director of the CIA, make a surprise trip to Moscow this week. It was his first publicly known visit to Russia. It only came to light on Tuesday when a US Air Force jet was spotted arriving at Moscow Airport footage of the motorcade moving through the city, emerged on social media, and having to say for spy chief who wants to keep a mission secret, I'm thinking you don't fly in on a military jet and then have your motorcade driving around the streets of Moscow. What's your reckon? Was this the secret visit that was never meant to be secret because actually Ratcliffe wanted the whole world to know about it? So there's three or four different scenarios, Kat, and again, you would go in on an unmarked golf stream and you'd have a tail number and no one would know who was in the plane. He's a spy. They know how to do this. It was a be a non-descript way to get in there. But he's trying to send a message, I think, to NATO. I think he's trying to send a message to NATO of support. I don't think the president was 100% behind it, by the way, which is why he ditched it. Remember, he is Vladimir Putin's buddy. Because Ratcliffe is more of a Russia hawk when it comes to the administration, undoubtedly, than other people in the administration. Yeah, listen, he's been loyal to the president, but he comes out of that by partisan, I'm with NATO against Russia. I have seen the intelligence, and I know what Russia is trying to do to the West, to the American people, to the UK, and you have to remember, Trump is fighting something inside the United States, which is the establishment. And so people will say, "Oh, well, you know, not a lot of checks and balances hand-checking Trump. They've let him run amuck, but in certain national security issues, they have not let him do that." Because he wants to turn the keys over to Vladimir Putin. I submit to you that that war would have ended if Vice President Harris had won or Joe Biden had stayed on. Trump has it delayed the ability for the West to beat the Russians in that war, or at least for Ukraine to have a armistice, that's my opinion. And so here's Ratcliffe now going to Moscow, I think, to appease NATO allies. I think he's sending a signal, and they link that. Now, what else happened there? I don't know. I don't know why you're going to see 17, a hardened C-17 to do that. I was told by a Senator on the Foreign Relations Committee that there are obviously there have been a string of threats and attacks against NATO in the last few weeks. There was an attempted near-miss at Leipzig Airport, reportedly a GRU attempt to bring down a German cargo plane with drones, a cargo plane that was supplying Ukraine that has particularly alarmed people that have been attacks against facilities in Italy, for example, that have been in Estonia, in Bulgaria, in the Netherlands, against facilities that are all involved in trying to arm Ukraine as well. And the Senator said to me, "Look, there could be concern, the CIA, that a bigger threat is in the planning from Moscow's side." So I think that there is genuinely concern in NATO, and I feel it, I've been in Europe for the last few weeks, I felt it here, people have discussed it with me, that Moscow and Putin want to take advantage of America's disdain for NATO and of its depleted munitions because of the Iran War. So I think that is genuine, but I think it's super interesting like you point out that Trump couldn't let that stand as the story. The CIA undoubtedly let this story get out. I mean, how did the Wall Street Journal get that reporting within hours of Ratcliffe landing back in Washington because somebody in the CIA gave them that reporting? I mean, it's not, you know, it doesn't take a genius to realize that, but he goes and stamps on the reporting because he doesn't want to own an ultimatum. I think he doesn't want to be seen as weak. I mean, what happens if Ratcliffe does go, give some kind of a red line warning, Putin acts anyway, Trump doesn't want to own that, it's easy, much easier to have a denial, right? Yeah, well, I mean, you got a lot, you got a lot of issues here, guys. So number one, Bill Burns did this in 2021, you said we, we see what you guys are doing. We don't want you to invade. They ended up invading anyway. Trump has told Hexeth, I want to take 80,000 troops out of Europe. So how do you reconcile that, Katty? That's a big question. So I'm taking 80,000 troops out of Europe because I want to really bust up NATO. My name is Donald Trump, even though the American establishment doesn't want to bust up NATO. So how would I reconcile having Ratcliffe go to Putin and say, hey, don't attack NATO. Oh, but by the way, I have no munitions because I just blew out, I spent the trillion dollars on the military and only have five months worth of munitions and I'm moving 80,000 troops out of Europe. So I don't know, does that, does that square that for me, how, how does, how does that work for the Americans see? So there's something else going on, there's something else going on. He wants the pressure he ran to, by the way, Putin's my buddy, I'm sending Ratcliffe over there. We're going to use the ruse knock off, knock it off on NATO. But the real reason I'm there is I got the straighter hormones closed and I'm about to call economic D day and I got to make sure the Russians are aware of what we're doing from a sanctions perspective. I mean, that, those are the workshop ideas in my mind. And there's a lot of smoke every time the CIA does something like this. What do you make of the fact, Anthony, that when Bill Burns, who was the CIA director for Joe Biden, went there in 2021, and as we said, his visit didn't actually produce a result because the Russians then went invaded Ukraine anyway, at least Bill Burns got a meeting with Vladimir Putin. All that John Ratcliffe got was intermediaries to pass a briefing note upstairs, possibly to the president. He doesn't even get to meet Vladimir Putin, which the Russians are very happy to tell us. So is that the down great, is that what are the Russian, what's the message there that the Russians are sending to the White House? We're not even going to meet your guy. War him met him. He met him. And they leaked out that he didn't meet him because the stuff that they're talking about, they want to throw the scent off. It's possible. It's possible. I mean, you know, these are spies. They don't always tell us exactly what they're doing, even when they do fly in on an aircraft that everybody can spot. Yeah. Listen, I'm flying in. Okay. So, Katie, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, okay? And I've read some of these intelligence briefings and I'm, but I do understand misdirection. I'm flying in Huha, C17, big motorcade, but I'm not meeting the president, but I actually did meet him. And I'm sending him a message that I don't want garbled and I don't want it. I want to face-to-face communicate with the president of Russia about what we're doing in Iran and what we want the Russians to do in terms of backing off. And oh, by the way, you know, Mr. Trump loves you, Vlad, he's got pictures of you all over the residents, you know, he just gender-flexed you every day. And he wants to really, before his term is over, he's going to relieve you of economic sanctions, but you got to help me with Tehran. And it got, and by the way, by the way, I don't know that, so it's not me sitting here saying I got that seed from somebody, but I know how the shit works, okay? And I'm telling you what they're saying happened. I don't believe for a moment. It actually happened the way they're saying it happened But just remember this okay, you know the hormones straight some ships are getting through But you're down a lot of ships and you also have to understand that the This this sanctioning campaign this economic dda announced what are you going to do with Russia China and Turkey and The UAE who are doing business with Tehran and that's something that they had to talk to the Russians about is my opinion But Kati here's something I don't like Kati and I need you to say it because you are Still not a U.S. citizen. I am a U.S. citizen, but I need you to say this Kati It's the world cheering for the Americans in this war or is the world cheering for the Iranians in this world? No, I think I don't think many people are cheering for the Iranians because there are a lot of people Worried about Iran getting a nuclear bomb, but I don't think I think there are a lot of people saying I told you so to the White House and who don't obviously think that the White House has handled this Very very well, which that's ostensibly the case they haven't handled it very well, so I don't I don't I've had occasionally Americans say to me, oh god, this is terrible, but I want Iran to win this one I remind them that Iran is not the most Salubrious regime you should want to win this one, but I think they will think that America was bonkers to go into I've just had by the way. I've just had a text from a senior UK former intelligence official who's saying that he thinks this it was about Langley and that this was a Langley initiative not a White House initiative and that Trump is trying to put distance between himself and the CIA, which is what you're suggesting to. I think there's something else that's worth talking about here, and that's the fact that the US had to ask Ukraine not to attack Moscow while Rackcliffe was there and the irony of President Trump a year ago having said that Ukraine holds none of the cards and now the White House is having to ask for a ceasefire over Moscow to get its own spy chief into Moscow is something worth thinking about too. I also think there's one other thing that's worth going on and it's perhaps not as an intriguing a political thing and when's did there was a prisoner swap between the Ukrainians and the Russians 10 people for 10 people Rackcliffe was there on Tuesday You often send a CIA direct to there to kind of figure out deals Not necessarily just to draw red lines, so I think it's possible he had that discussion too as well as the Iran discussion What do you think because I think that's been a story that was a little overlooked so I think that's part of it too And but I but I will say this and this I guess I didn't want to say this but I am going to say this I do think many people in the world despite the regime the tyrannical nature of the regime It's an underdog in this fight with the Americans and I think that people want to push back on the Americans right now because of the rhetoric Coming from Trump and because of what he's doing to the world and and and by the way I hate saying this catty, but I think he's one of the most hated figures in the world He may have 32% support from red red-headed mega people But I think he's one of the most hated people in the world and I think he has really Hurt the American standing here and I think in those middle powers in the Middle East They like the brow beating that the American military is getting from Iran By the way, it saddens me to say all that, but I think we have to be objective. Yeah, no I think that's true for many countries, particularly in the global South. I was just referring to Western allies Right. Well, no, I know Western allies see this as a death in the family This is like a hate man my my great uncle who was a patriarch and a benevolent Charitable person has died and he's been placed replaced by my ignorance cousin who's Tanning himself with orange bronzer. I mean I don't I don't I think that that's how the West feels about this But but catty just remember this Putin gains nothing By confirming that he met with Radcliffe. He gained something by confirming he met with burns right because he was Ratcheting up to the war and he needed to flex out everybody right was before the Munich security conference all that other stuff This is different. He doesn't need to tell people that he met with him if he actually did meet with him We're not getting the the whole story But I'm I'm sure there's a trade that the Americans want Between what's going on with Putin and Ukraine and what's going on with the Americans and Iran And I think that was on the table and I bet you that Putin met with them. That would be my bet if someone put us Hey, you think Putin met with him. I say. Yeah, I think Putin met with him Because I think I think there was a message that would they were trying to deliver from Trump that they didn't want in a Communicate that was encrypted that could be uncrypted. So then that that that's me But I mean listen, we won't we won't know that But this is not semi-routine And of course Trump and of course Trump lying about it big deal at this point because he's lying about everything So when Trump talks now people are like okay, whatever we don't know What he's saying could be true or not true. It's ridiculous, you know my tendencies to believe Rackcliffe And what the CIA is putting out more than it is at this point to believe what Donald Trump tells Fox News Okay, so you think it was just hey, you're encouraging on That was part of it. I think that was part of it. Okay I don't think that was not part of it because I know that NATO countries are worried and there have been these attacks And the likes are almost attacks scared everybody So I think that is part of it I think you're quite right Iran is part of it. I think probably this prisoner swap may have been part of it So we're not getting the full story. I still think it's interesting that you've got this politically you've got The CIA putting out something and the White House stamping on it the next day Disowning the idea that they've said any kind of red line Which is exactly what people that I've been talking to in the national security space Wanted Rackcliffe to go and deliver with some kind of a red line and Trump's now just said to everybody oops No red line guys. That was not what this was about because he doesn't want to own that if it goes wrong Yeah, right one more question. Okay, we'll Trump punish Europe For Iran. So I go into Iran unilaterally. I'm blowing everything up and oh by the way I want you guys now to enter the fight with me even though I unilaterally start at the fight with the Israelis Is Trump gonna punish them for not coming into the fight with them? Yes He will try and revisit the trade agreements make them harder for Europeans Bluster about pulling American bases out of Europe But that seems to me unlikely or bluster about pulling them out of the American the European bases We feels where the countries haven't been supportive enough and perhaps then moving them to central Europe Well, actually that wouldn't be a bad idea But he'll try to punish them. And then the question is you know, that's why everybody's looking at Mark Karni As we said last earlier this week will Europeans stand up to him? Well, they carry Well, they stand up to him No, because they don't have one concerted voice It's much harder for the Europeans to stand up to him and I think actually at the beginning of this week Mark Karni Looks like he's the superhero and he may well prove to be but by the end of this week I don't see the voices coming out publicly From the 27 members of the European Union or the United Kingdom saying that's the way to go We need to be following the Mark Karni model. He looks pretty lonely at the moment Well, of course because there are people are saying you have no upside to doing that and uh, let's not piss Trump off right now But I think Karni has done something that people are going to study And I think Karni has said You know what this is going to cause my nation economic damage But like a war because it is a war it's a trade war But like a war it's going to galvanize my nation Okay, and this is actually an attack on my homeland And I think he's read it right inside of Canada and so he's got He's closing it on 70% approval rate imagine that For a politician and this type of society that we're living in with 38 million people So you know the only other person with great approval ratings like that One dolly partner and we're going to talk about her after the break. All right. Sounds good. We'll be right back This episode is brought to you by Zipra Cruder It's easy to tell when somebody is passionate about what they do look at our world the whole political world You can tell the ones who are in it because they love it and who are in it because they've been there too long and they've got a little stale I've been hiring people for 21 years in my company And that's a number one thing that we look forward to looking for passion and enthusiasm It's very hard in an interview and so you need people like Zipra Cruder to help you figure out the wheat from the chaff Catty and you can find passion to people for your role for free at zipra Cruder.com/politics Zipra Cruder's newest feature helps you meet the most interested qualified candidates first They can even tell you why in their own words find candidates who really want your job on Zipra Cruder Four out of five employers who post on Zipra Cruder get a quality candidate within the first day Try it for free at zipracruder.com/politics That's zipracruder.com/politics Meet your match on Zipra Cruder Welcome back to the rest is politics US This segment is brought to you in politics partnership with EToro. This is market watch. Each month with EToro, we look at what's been happening in the markets and what individual investors have actually been doing in response, because the two often don't tell the same story. SpaceX is back in focus. Some early investors and employees can now start selling shares they previously had told onto. And when the company went public in June, ordinary investors got far more access than they normally would in a major IPO. And because, of course, EToro is a social investing platform, it can see how millions of investors responded to the IPO launch in aggregate. Did ordinary investors see SpaceX the same way? I guess that's the big question. - They're very exciting story, very interesting time for everybody. And I need to fully disclose everybody. I've been a SpaceX investor for quite some time. And I was also an XAI investor. And some people may remember this, those two entities merged prior to the IPO. - How did Wall Street see the SpaceX IPO? - And there's something called capital recycling. You know, Wall Street's interpretation of this is its institutions were reducing their positions in smaller companies and raising cash, getting prepared for the SpaceX IPO. That did happen, I think, on the margin. My own personal view, looking at it from the window of my seated skybridge. To me, it was more of a ground swell of what I would call retail investors and high net worth individuals. - I always thought was interesting about this story when it happened, Anthony and about what, you know, Etoro's investors actually did around the SpaceX launch, was the kind of why there was so much excitement. So on launch day, Etoro users worldwide invested more than twice as much in SpaceX as in Nvidia, Tesla, Microsoft, Amazon, Apple, Google, Meta and Bitcoin combined. Was it because this was a rare opportunity for ordinary investors to get access to an IPO on the scale of a kind of SpaceX IPO itself? Or was it because they were taking an informed decision about the future of that sector? - It's such a good question. I'm gonna say that it's a little bit of both, but just remember in the United States, a company like SpaceX would have gone public probably 10 years ago, but because of the regulation in the US, you know, these guys have waited, Uber waited, SpaceX waited. So I think that's where there was a lot of pent up retail as a man or SpaceX, but one of the things I love about Etoro is that Etoro examined the retail investor profile in the overall book of business. It said, you know what, maybe the institutions did that capital recycling that I was referring to or they sold some of the smaller companies in preparation for SpaceX, but the retail investor did not do that. The retail investor said, okay, I'm gonna own this stuff, but you know what, I'm gonna create cash somewhere to get myself into the SpaceX IPO. I thought that was interesting, 'cause then we saw the wider space sector. 'Cause I think there'd been concern on Wall Street, right, that this could be the introduction of one massively dominant player that wipes out all of the other space sector companies, and that didn't happen at all. Their investment in the wider space sector increased amongst Etoro users alone by 24%. So does that suggest that there's some kind of halo effect from SpaceX? - Yeah, I think there's a halo effect. There's a halo effect on Elon Musk. There's also some speculation that they may even end up merging Tesla and SpaceX longer term, but I think the real question, Caddy, is why did individual investors respond so differently than Wall Street? And it's a very simple answer to that, you know, Wall Streeters like myself did have access to the private stock of SpaceX. Very few retail investors were able to get in on the pre IPO rounds of SpaceX, and so they're like, okay, finally, I get my chance to own SpaceX. - What I find interesting in Etoro's data is that we're already seeing a shift in what investors are doing. So they had this period of buying, but now it looks like it's getting a little bit more balanced. - Yeah, it became much more balanced, okay, and the real question is, does this shift towards selling mean investors have changed their view on SpaceX, Caddy? No, I don't think that they've changed their view. It's just that, you know, you've got venture capitalists, Wall Street guys maybe have a whole SpaceX for 10 years, maybe even some of the employees have held it for that long, but we were at a time. And so for diversification purposes, they might be selling at a time when retail is buying. - If you'd like to see what millions of investors are doing right now, go to etoro.com. Etoro is a multi-asset investment platform. The value of your investments may go up or down. Your capital is at risk. - The content that we've been discussing is intended for information and educational purposes only and should not be considered investment advice or investment recommendation. - Now, I want to talk about Dolly Parton. Okay, here is Dolly Parton, who has been a public figure in America, at one of America's more devices times, and she manages to have the most extraordinary approval ratings. She's got, there was a UGF poll out recently that has her net approval of 65%. Barack Obama is at 14%, Trump is at negative 19%, and Biden is at negative 18%. There was a UMass survey recently, and she is the only person in America to clear 50% approval with Democrats, Republicans, and Independents. I think she did it very deliberately, Anthony. I think she was strategic and smart, and it was not that she didn't have politics because you can tell where her politics are in many ways. She was super inclusive about LGBTQ rights, about Black Lives Matter. She is a feminist icon just in what she has done with her own career, but she made a very disciplined, and I'm not sure that it's replicable, and that's what I want to get your take on. Decision, not to get involved in politics, and she did it by being super authentic. - Well, listen, I mean, they pushed her in 2018 during the first Trump administration. They pushed her very hard, and she said, look, I'm not into politics, I'm an entertainer. She then quipped that her mother was a Democrat, her father was a Republican, and she said that makes her a hypocrite, which I thought was really funny, and she delivered it well. - It's funny. - She delivered it well. You know, her whole thing about Trump, though, is she never saying bad about Trump, and they pushed her very hard to say things bad, and she kept saying, listen, I'm an entertainer, back into the 2016 campaign. This is something I remember from the campaign. Keti Rogers said, you're the Donald Trump of country music, and she looked at him and said, that must be a joke about my hair. And so people interpreted that, she didn't like Trump, you know what I mean, but that wasn't it. She may have not liked him. I don't know, but she was very good about not telling people, which is why he's lowering the flags. And remember, she was offered by Donald Trump, the Medal of Freedom. She was offered it twice. She declined it because she said her husband was ill, and then the second time she said, I'm not going to travel because it's COVID. - Interestingly, she was offered it by twice from Trump, and then from Joe Biden, right? And she says, I can't take it from Joe Biden, because that would suggest I am political. So that's what I mean about her being very disciplined. She was prepared to turn down this incredible honor, which is the presidential Medal of Freedom, in order to preserve her political neutrality. I think it was a strategy. The strategy of very smart business person. - Yeah, if Billy Graham was the Billy Graham of religion, Valley Parton was the Billy Graham of country music and entertaining. And just hear me out, I was saying, Billy Graham figured out a way to have a relationship with every single president. It didn't matter Republican or Democrat. And I think that that's something that she did very, very well. And I think it's something that, you know, you learn from people like her and Michael Jordan. Remember, they wanted Michael Jordan to pick sides and politics. Michael Jordan said, hey, man, Republicans buy sneakers too, leave me out of this. She did it without even ever uttering a line like that. So I admire her for a number of different reasons, but the number one thing I admire her for is the anonymity of her charity. If you walk around in the areas that she came from and she grew up very poor and you listen to people that she grew up with, she gave back to so many different people. And so much so that the Bezos family, Lauren and Jeff Bezos, I don't know if you remember this a few years ago, they gave her $100 million. And what was it earmarked for? Any charity that Valley Parton wants, okay? And they said, okay, here's a $100 million grant into your foundation, from our foundation. Do as you see fit, that was the type of trust that people had in Valley Parton. So, you know, a unifying person for sure, but also an incredibly generous person that needs to be remembered for all of that as well. - Do you think then when you look at what she achieved in terms of being somebody who was beloved right across the country by all sectors of America, which is just so extraordinary in itself because there is no one else like that right now. Is she a proposition antennae or is it just about her person? So could this be replicated by somebody else in America? Could this be replicated by any kind of political leader in America? Or can you only do it? Can you only get Americans to agree on something if you refuse to tell them what you think? 'Cause I feel like that for me, that is the message that Dolly Parton has left us with. And I don't think that what she did can be duplicated by anybody else. - Not today. Not the image. America that we're in today, not with the tribal media, not with the segmented messaging, not with the algorithms on social media. Well, the algorithms on social media didn't destroy her, but maybe it was because she was just so disciplined. And she had this way of disarming people who asked her important political questions by being charming and sweet and smiley. Exactly. And remember, the algorithm is designed for rage. I'm going to get your eyeballs if we have a lot of rage. And one of the things we didn't talk about this week was the $18 billion settlement for the, you know, the child mental health issues that meta was faced with with this lawsuit. They settled it, the stock went up on it because people thought it was going to be a larger settlement. But, but people like Dali Parton get well received and very popular because they don't fit into that algorithm. You know, I, I, unfortunately, I fit into the algorithm because I think Trump is a maniac. And I think he's very harmful to the society. You're a lot cooler than me, Katty. You're a lot more diplomatic than me. But I think that, and so I fitted that bucket. I think that you're in some ways. You have a lot of Dali Parton diplomacy. It could be your, your upbringing and your dad's diplomatic status. But I'm probably a little less diplomatic than you. And I, I get caught in the crosshairs more. I mean, it suggests that if you have high approval ratings, you kind of can't spend your political capital or your social capital or your cultural capital that you can't, and she never used it. Overly in the favor of a cause beyond literacy. She was supportive clearly of gay rights. And she said that, but she managed not to alienate conservatives. Even when she did nine to five, the movie with Jay Fonda in 1980, who was politically radioactive amongst many people who listened to Dali Parton songs, right? Much of the country music audience is conservative. They didn't like Jane Fonda. Jane Fonda for her anti-war activism with somebody they, you know, would run a mile from. But Dali Parton did something that was extraordinary. She didn't ever alienate herself from Jane Fonda. She just said, I allow everybody to have their opinions. She was so generous and funny and charming and nice. Never underestimate in life the power of being nice. Yeah, no question. That's a super power. She was a nice, good person. It was a super power. And so it made it almost impossible for people to hate her, even though, you know, she could have friends like Jane Fonda and work with them, which very few over liberals or Democrats would be able to get away with in America today. I'm with you. I listen, I don't think any of us could say if someone said to me, what was Dali Parton's politics? I could guess at it, you know, I could guess at it. And I think she was probably very socially liberal. But at the end of the day, I don't know. And that's how smart she was at handling these situations. Somebody who the DSA and Donald Trump agree on who to thought there is somebody out there. Okay, guys, thank you so much for listening. We will be back, of course, next Monday with more for you. We'll see you next week. But don't forget to go to the rest's politics US.com by tickets for our tour. Come meet, Katty and I ask us questions hanging out with us. These tours are a lot of fun for us. We hope to see you there. Thanks, guys. Have a great weekend. Guys, you'll see you next week. Play those Dali Parton songs. You'll feel happier for it.

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