The Charming, Amusing, Surprisingly Low-Confidence Matthew Rhys

From The New York Times, this is the interview, I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. The actor Matthew Reese is on a tear. He starred in this year's surprise breakout hit Widow's Bay as a small-time mayor trying desperately to bring tourism to his sleepy island despite locals warning that the place is haunted. And he's also starred in The Beast in Me as Nal Jarvis, a New York real estate developer rumored to have murdered his wife. Both of those parts won him Emmy nominations this year, yes, he's nominated twice. But as I found out when we spoke, it doesn't mean he's feeling secure in his career. We got into that and talked about some of his other memorable roles, and about his life with his partner, Carrie Russell, who he fell in love with on the set of the Americans. Here's my conversation with Matthew Reese. But first, a quick message, if you're not a subscriber, we have some news for you. You can now explore the times for free without paywalls during your first month in The New York Times app. Just download the app and we hope you enjoy it. Okay, on to the interview. Matthew Reese, thank you so much for being here. Thank you very much. So the best description of you that I've seen is actually your own. Oh, God. Yes. There we go. Yeah. Immediately panicked. All right. You said once that you are, quote, eternally seeking to channel the spirit of David Niven. And that, of course, is referring to the great leading man who has Welsh roots. I discovered his autobiography, The Moon is a balloon is one of my absolute favorite books in the world. Agreed. Can you tell me what you meant by that? Yes. I feel my life or how I am in the world, I'm always really like a nervous Nelly and I'm always like, Oh my God, I said the wrong thing. I did the wrong thing. And then I look at Niven and he's always so quietly self assured and calm and seemingly said the right thing even when a naked person ran behind him with the Oscars. And I just wish I could be that person and say the right thing or and be gracious and effortless and always think of others and everything, every time you read of an actor who worked with David Niven, they always say he was just so gracious to everyone and thought of others all the time and said the right thing when it was calm and I was like, God, I wish I could be that person. Yeah. It's interesting the way that you view him because he is witty and charming and always said the right thing. But also maybe a bit frivolous, maybe a bit frivolous in what sense or with what? Well, I mean, you know, he was the perfect party guest. Yes. And in terms of his acting, he was a good actor. I wouldn't say a great actor. I had a great. And when I think of your work, I think more of sort of the great Welsh actors, you know, Richard Burton and Anthony Hopkins and the OG Ray Meland, you know, who were sort of brooding dark characters. And so I guess what you're saying is David Niven in life and perhaps others in work. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. And I would say that I would say Richard Burton is on par with Niven in that sense as to who I would aspire to be because Burton seemingly, he was the first to kind of be very, very unwelched to me, which was arresting and inspiring. What is unwelsh? I think we're a small country who have suffered for being England's neighbour. A small kind of cousin who's always ignored and put into the corner and kind of told what to do by England. And therefore, I think there's a great kind of subservience and insecurity to a degree nationally. And he was one of the first to kind of really with this great confidence and hubris going, "I'm not going to be that. I'll take Hollywood by storm. I will challenge Onassis for the diamond. And he was very unwelched in his--Brovato. Yes. Yeah. And to me, I was like, "Wow. We're allowed. We're allowed to be that." I want to go just back to the David Niven thing because you described being a nervous Nelly. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit like, what do you mean? Well, I think that just stems from the early days of kind of growing up in a school that was heavily into sports and being the only one who wanted to do acting. And then you go to drama college in London and then being the kind of the young Welsh person. I've always--and now I'm just, you know, another fish out of water in America. I've always felt slightly not fitting it. I know. And it's the boring actors cliché, right? No. I've never fitted in. And I don't say it's a cross I've had to bear. I'm just saying there's a slight feeling of it. And I've never just--you know, all the stuff that me and my mob always moan about. I've never felt that kind of confidence, self-assuredness that I always wished I had, which is maybe why we always pretend to be other people. You fake it pretty well. In so many ways, not just the acting, yeah. I'm interested in this period that you had where you had early success. You were in a stage play of the graduate on London's West End. And then you had this period of not being able to find work. In your early parts of your career, did you ever turn anything down because you wanted to have a certain kind of career? Were you being choosy or were you just not finding the kinds of roles that you wanted? Oh, no, no. It was never choosy. Especially throughout my entire 20s, it was never a choice I had. I was just--there's only one job I turned down that I, to this day, bitterly regret, which was to play a hamlet. Oh. And I was 24 and I-- Turned down hamlet. No, because it felt, so it felt like a mountain I was too young to climb. And I was like, I don't have the emotional maturity to play a hamlet at 24. And now, sadly, the day has passed. But yeah, I don't feel, you know, I'll ever get that chance again. You knew that you didn't have the emotion? Yeah. I remember saying, I remember saying it to my age into the time. I was like, I can't play hamlet now. I don't--I don't have that in me. That's--it may be in five, six years, but not now. There's no way I could play now. And then Ben Wishaw did it at 21. What do you feel like you have to have inside of you in order to play a role? Like, what do you--I mean, when you were younger, did you feel like there had to be emotional material there for you to sort of be able to channel the person? Exactly. I, you know, obviously, hamlet's going through so much at the time. I just felt--I haven't worn enough shirts. I haven't lived a life yet in order to kind of-- You can't pretend, isn't that accurate? I don't need to be able to tell you your business. Oh, believe me, how right you are. Yes. And I look back and go, why didn't I just pretend? I think, I think, you know, we do--we do kind of put hamlet on a plinth and we kind of see it as this Everest that can it be summited, should be summited, because it's--it should be summited. And it was, for me, I was like, this, you know, it was a--it's just one of those roles-- Do you think it was low self-esteem? Without question. I think any number of other actors are going, of course I'm going to do it, and I'll do it well. And I was like, I can't do that. That's not in me. I can't do it. I bitterly regret that. You mentioned something. You studied at Rada, which is the World Academy of Dramatic Art at London. And that's sort of the highest echelon acting school. What would you say the sort of main differences between American acting and British acting or the acting that you--I mean, I have thoughts about this, but the acting that you kind of were brought up in, because just hearing you say that, that you kind of needed some emotional material to do it, I mean, that speaks to a philosophy of acting that I'm wondering what it is exactly. What do you think that philosophy is? Is it more American? I would say it's more American. I agree. Yes. And we were taught by a New York acting teacher at Violet Rada, called Durien Cannon. She was from the kind of royalty of New York acting schools. So like method acting? Still hardly. Yeah, she'd come through that. So she--yes, that was her ethos, and that was the way we were taught. It was this great, subversive moment in the Rada history, where Americans were brought into teaching acting, which kind of let's reinvent the wheel here. Yeah. How did it inform how you learned how to act? I loved it, because also as much as I was watching Richard Burton, the huge heroes for me were Brando and Toneiro and Puccino. So all of a sudden, I felt like I was getting an insight into their world, the way they did it. And I grew up watching their movies, so all of a sudden I was like, "Oh my God, we're getting the secrets." Yeah. So it was very exciting to me. It was getting away from this idea that it was pretence. It suddenly became very real. And in a way, I suppose, a little more--this is a self-justification of dressing up for a living, but kind of more worthy or noble, that if you do it for real, it's not facade, which is a little more humiliating. Well, there's a lot of debate now, because female actors are talked about how this is--it's male conceit to be a method actor that it's because, you know, men are much more more comfortable, you know, naval gazing and women have to use their brains in other ways. - True, true. - I mean, what do you think about that sort of debate? - I agree, I agree that the term has become this kind of pariah now for bad behavior. And what I loved about the training we had at college is that they strip the myth from it. They're like, look, it's like a switch is like a toolkit. So there's no self-indulgence. There's no kind of being rude to people. There's no pushups before a take. You know, if you're playing Macbeth, you're not gonna become the king of Scotland. So it's like, it's giving you a toolkit that you can call upon whenever you need it and when you should need it. But it also makes it a lot more clinical, a lot easier. There's no, you don't stay in character. There's no reason to stay in character between action and cut. That's it. - You don't do it? - No. - No. - No, we were taught a method, but I'm not, I suppose in the modern term, I would say is a method actor. I've never once stayed in character. - You don't go home and speak in an American accent, or? - I do sometimes to annoy the kids. And they're like, oh, stuff it. (laughing) Yeah. Or if I order food on the phone, I do an American accent. 'Cause sometimes you're like, it's just quicker. The kids are like, why are you doing that? - Yeah. All right. I wanna talk about your Emmy nominated roles. First of all, congratulations. - Thank you very much. - The 19 Emmy nominations for Widows Bay. - Unbelievable. - It's unbelievable. - Part of what is obviously so unique about the show is this blend of horror and comedy. So first on the comedy, I saw the casting director recently said about you, that no one knew how good you were going to be in a comedy role, which made me wonder why you were cast by the way. (laughing) But, you know, this is, you'd never really done a role like that before. - No. - I mean, did you doubt yourself? Why did you want to try to do comedy? Because you're not known as a comedic actor. - No. - And I didn't. I always wanted to kind of give comedy a goal. And then the script came in and I was like, oh my god, this is amazing. And original and weird and quirky. And I was like, is this comedy always this kind of part you're gonna play for real? And then I met with Katie Dippon, here on Mariah. And hero said, look, we're not playing this as a comedy. It has to be played as a drama, otherwise you just work. It'll become self-conscious and fascical. So, you have to play it for real. And I was like, oh, great. - You know how to do that? - Yeah, the pressure was taken away. And I didn't have to think about it being a comedy. - Is that why you've steered away from comedy up until now? - No, I just think, because I've seen you in roles where you're self, right? And you're funny. - Well, thank you very much. I also think I have what they call the Celtic lid. You know, I've slightly hooded eyes like Robert Mitchim. So, you don't have a face for comedy. People think you're kind of downtrodden and serious all the time. Like, if I have a brighter eye, I might be better for comedy. But it's not something I've overtly or consciously avoided. I just think, as in, so many times with this profession, you can slightly get put into your little category and you stay there. - Right. When you had to go and play the character, did you think, all right, I have to play this for real. And by the way, other actors who do do comedy say that you have to play it straight. Like, in any comedy, you have to be completely committed to the bit because if not, it. - Yes, you're self-conscious. - Yeah, yeah. - But this is obviously like a fantastical world. - Yes, yes. - And so how do you commit to the bit when you're having to be chased by, you know, killer clowns and horny c-hags? - Almost the same. What was great was. I was gonna say, oh God, I. Well, okay, 'cause I hate talking about my process. - I like it. - Okay, so part of the method I was taught is when you project a project, your character should have a super objective. What is the one thing throughout the whole project he desperately wants? So I thought, if I give myself a very strong super objective for this, for each scene, then there's a scenic objective that feeds the super objective. So I go, okay, if my super objective is, I want my son to flourish, to bloom, to succeed on this island. Every action leading to that super objective has to be me going, I have to make this island succeed. So it gives you this kind of focused zeal when the madness is around you. And that's what helped me kind of. When there's kind of all borderline, farcical madness around you, if you have this one driving force in your mind, it tends to, for me personally, it helps me kind of keep me slightly on this path, on this keel that I can stick to. And then it makes the playing of it more real for me, if that makes sense. And it does, it's your motivation, right? - Right, so that's. - Yes, I said the M-wood. Yes, so that's what I, okay, thank you. That's what I try and do. - So on the horror front. - Yes. - I want to start with just like a big premise, which is, you know, film and our cultural touchstones say something about us and the moment that we're living in. And I think, you know, when superhero movies are really having their moment, we wanted things to be black and white, we wanted to be saved, we wanted someone to come and sort of make everything okay. And I think what this moment might be telling us is that things aren't what they seem. That there's things happening behind the scenes that are beyond our control and aren't particularly nice either. I mean, why do you think horror is having such a moment? Have you thought about it? - To a degree, but I haven't come up with anything as erudite as that, but I would. - Do we just like to be scared? I mean, maybe I'm just giving too much of a thing. - No, no, because I think it's interesting as to why, why there's this, why there's this kind of wealth of horror that's doing well. So it's seemingly, it's kind of more, slightly more societal than anything else. - Right. - And I would agree because I would have thought in these times of kind of such turbulence, you would almost want the superheroes more because you just need to believe in that kind of universal sense of justice that something or someone ultimately will do the right thing or overcome the bad thing. But it is, it's this, we're in this strange time of kind of constantly being, oh my God, this is terrible. - Shocks to the system. - Yes, the things we're seeing are horrific, but yet seemingly nothing changes or stops. So it makes perfect sense that we find it in our fictional entertainment. - Do you think about the cultural moment when you're playing a role like this, like what it's feeding into? How it might be received in the world? - Well, the big conversations about Widows Bay was like, how are they gonna take this? Is like, there was a, we were always going, why are we gonna get this? What is this tone of, when my agent said, this is horror comedy, I was like, whoa, what? No, and then I read it and I was like, oh, that's, that's pretty great. I didn't think it was pretty great, that was fantastic. And I was like, I know I want to do it, but how is that gonna be received? Like that could be, we could die on our asses with this one. - Do you know, is anything about series two, what's going to happen? Anything about the real mythology that you can tell people who are under watch this and want to know. - I can tell you wholeheartedly, I know nothing. And I'll be, I'll say this much. I'm not even sure, Katie Dippold knows, 'cause they've only just gone into the room for season two. And I was like, I was technically going, what happened? She was like, I don't know. So they're gonna sit down for a long time trying to figure it out. - So this is one of my really big pet peeves as a viewer. Which is, we have to wait to know if a series is a hit before it gets picked up again. And then there's this long lag, yeah. And by that point, you know, you're kind of forgotten everything about the momentum and the thing that you liked. And you're seeing now all this reporting about viewer drop off, you know, beef running point, Netflix series, because that happens. I mean, isn't there a better way? - There has to be, because this new model is crazy. And that's what everyone says. It's like, now we have to wait over a year for the next season. I'm of the same opinion, you watch one season. And you're like, what, wait, what, how long? - Are you worried about losing momentum? - Yeah, yes. I just hope those editors who do previously have done what it was being, you know, kind of a great, just before we break season two, you're reintroducing it, but that's not the best answer. - All right. The Beast and Me was your other big hit this year. You're nominated for an Emmy for that too. You play a super rich mogul who is suspected of killing his wife. Have you thought about how much you're playing a character that's hiding something? I was obviously in advance of this interview just going through a lot of your work. In the Americans, obviously you were Soviet spy, you were talking to be an American, and many other things along the way. Beast and Me, you're a murderer, pretending to not be a murderer at Widow's Bay, you clearly know more than you let on about what's happening on the island. Why are you drawn to those particular roles? And why do you keep getting them? - Yeah, that's even more disturbing. I always think when the character has something else going on, it just gives you so much more to play than something slightly shallower or more artificial. It just kind of lays it in a way that other parts can't. You've got so much going on. It sometimes in a way takes you out of the acting, if that makes sense. You're kind of, you're playing so many things, you start, you know, of forgetting about the kind of thing. of artificiality at all. I saw a clip where you were discussing the beast and me and you said menace and rage is where I like to live. And we had a big debate as to whether you were kidding or not. Yeah. Were you? But I mean, but if you look at your career, I mean, that's not untrue. No. No. I'm sure the kids would say, that's what I do live. No, no, I was, I was, I was, I was making a joke. Because your upbringing seems to have been so happy, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. I mean, you've talked about it with stable and fun. You were out, you know, in the farm and you were out on the sea. And it just seemed like a lovely kind of time. Yes. You don't seem to have some sort of dark origin story. No. And, and so I'm wondering where the attraction to darkness comes from. Right. So like those, it's in the shadows, the interest lies. I firm believe of that. It's like, oh my God, what's that about? What must be that like? And the kind of ray, you know, the rage stuff you, you kind of go, I hate to say it, sometimes I find the rage stuff easy to fake because it's just sort of, it's sort of volume and passion. That's about it. And I think for men, it's, it's this weird little tap you can find quite easily. You know, you, you can fake that quite easily if you're just kind of passionate and loud enough. Speaking of those dark and layered roles, I want to ask you about a role you played in the HBO show Girls in 2017. Yeah. I just rewatched it. And it's an episode titled American Bitch and you played Chuck Palmer, a famous author who had been me to for taking advantage of younger women. And Hannah played by Lena Dunham goes to his apartment, just giving this an opportunity. Yeah, yeah. After writing about the allegations and what follows is this incredibly complex performance. And again, you're playing this sort of charismatic, powerful, deeply manipulative person. And you have this intellectual argument with her about the agency of women and what was really going on for you and how you have been misunderstood. And then at the end, you expose yourself to Hannah. Yeah. Physically. Yeah. Physically. Yeah. The look you give in that scene at the end is really quite something. Yeah. I mean, it was amazing watching it again. Can you tell me what you remember working on that episode and what you understood about the character then? Yes. And, you know, Lena was incredible in that she kind of, I hope I'm not speaking out of turn on her part, but she kind of explained what had happened to her. So it was drawn from truth. So she gave me the background to this, where this kind of piece of fictional writing came from, in a very, very detailed way, which helped enormously. And then, which I've never done before, we rehearsed it like almost like a play. We went to the location and rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed. Which is utterly luxurious in television where you just, there is no time. So I just remember thinking, wow, we have all this time to get this right because it definitely needs to be got right. Especially at that moment, right? It was the subject of a huge discussion. Yes. Yeah. Did, in that discussion with her, were you trying to honor her memory or were you trying to be, you know, interpret the character in your own way? No. Exactly that. Trying to honor exactly what she'd written and kind of place it in a very real way. But also, she was interested in the real discussion of it, that he couldn't just be villainized off the bat. There had to be some kind of true discussion or discourse within this event that leads to it. I kind of push and pull of both sides for it to land in a very real place that ultimately then would hopefully pay off the ending a lot more. Yeah. I mean, it did. Obviously. But what was that look? Because what strikes me seeing it now is that, you know, it was this moment in time where we were just starting to have the conversation about consent and power and abuse. And Lena and the show's creators talked about it, you know, in the after episode discussion and talked about how they wanted the role to be nuanced. But watching it now for me is just a straight up bad guy. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, that's what the look is at the end because it doesn't matter what we've discussed. Ultimately, this is all I want to do. That all that kind of quote unquote discussion and, you know, it kind of back and forth is meaningless because once that happens, because ultimately, that's all he wants. Yeah. You also got to choose a prosthetic penis in that role. I actually didn't. I didn't. I was given the choice. Right. And I thought, I can't choose my own because I don't know. I just like somebody else to choose it, because then I, then I can't be judged about my choice. Is that the strangest problem that you've had without question, with I've never encountered a tray of prosthetic penises before and the prop master going, do you want to, do you want to, and I was like, no, you do some just something that I like spoke to the rich of the director. And you pick, pick what you think will help aid the shot at the end. After the break, recent I speak about starting to date his longtime partner, Kerry Russell, while co-starring on the Americans. Sometimes when we would argue, I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like, what is going on? And you're meant to be getting on really well. And I was like, um, I'm vice versa, you know? So she's far more chill than me. Okay, we're going to do a weird pivot because I don't know how to, um, get out of prosthetic penises. Yes, no, it's tricky. Yes. I saw a clip of you, uh, saying in Welsh, it's all downhill from here, speaking about your Emmy nominations. And I was wondering, you know, give me the context. I mean, the Welsh very pessimistic. Oh my God, you can't just be like, no, I'm amazing. And this is wonderful. Oh my God. No, no. I would attribute this to the, to all the Celtic countries. It's almost like an Olympic sport to, to take someone down once they think they're above their station. And you know, my parents going, what are you, you know, he thinks, you know, what's my dad always say, uh, God, if he was chocolate, he'd eat himself, you know, or he goes, he says that about you. You know, just about anyone who kind of slightly thinks they might be better than everyone else. Um, I just think, and I do, I really find it like at this real Celtic, um, characteristic that all the Celts have, like that, that anyone who thinks they're slightly better than the rest, it needs to be lopped at the, at the knees. Yeah. And, and I do also think that, especially for the Welsh, we, we do have a wildly strong sense of pessimism coursing through our veins. Hmm. I mean, it seems to be very at odds with the American idea of always be selling and, and in particular self, I mean, do you struggle with your own success? Yeah. I mean, yes and no, because I think, I think what, I, I have this on go, I have this, I have the parrot keeps saying, it's all going to fail, right? You know, it's all going to go downhill. Um, so I have that all the time, and, and this sounds a perverse name drop, but I, Tom Hanks's motto is like, this two shall pass, and he says that about everything. You've been out of work for a long time. This two shall pass. I mean, two Oscars, this two shall pass, and what I, all I remember is after doing the graduate with Catherine Turner, thinking I was just on an ascent, I was like, this is it. And then I was out of work for a long time. And I've realized the entire, the entire journey is the roller coaster. You're just up and then you're done and you're up and so at this point, I know this sounds stupid, but I kind of go, this is just, it's a, it's a moment. It's a fantastic moment, but it's a moment. After the graduate, I mean, you were going to join the military. I tried. I tried to join them. And they rejected you. Yeah. Because they didn't believe me. Which is really sad for an actor. You couldn't even convince the recruiter. No. I remember. I went in. I met, I met the sergeant and he was like, she'd come back next week and meet an officer and I was like, okay, I went back to, for the interview. And it was obviously so suspicious of me going, why do you want to join the military? And then like five days later, I got the letter saying, thank you for your interest in the British Army. And it's sort of amazing that the officer was like, there's something not right by this kid. There's like, I don't believe him. Back to that Welsh pessimism. Yeah. I mean, what do you think the biggest culture clash is between your American living self and your sort of Welsh self? I always admire, to me, the Americans have such confidence. or what I find in New York. That I do sometimes is I fake this confidence because there's this kind of some some say it's aggressive I find it like more confident Because there's like this and it's an honesty - that like you see it. It's like It's like subway justice, you know, sometimes when you get those people and it's not necessarily just men And women go like hey, you can't you can't sit there like or like, you know, give up the chair or like what I remember going Oh my god people are like this they're not just like those bit parts in in movies about New York the people are like this And I found it's liberating and I like to kids have that American confidence two degree. Yeah, it was far more so than I did as a kid of their age All right, you told the Guardian in 2014 that the most important thing to you is the survival of the Welsh language Probably was that yeah, yeah, I mean still is and I you know I grew up in the 80s when the the language itself was threatened and you know, I remember the protest marches and the kind of You know trying to get a language bill and language act and trying to you know, what are the oldest languages in Europe you couldn't It couldn't open a bank account in the Welsh language. There was it had no status. I don't think I truly understand sort of the history of how The Welsh language and Wales in particular was subsumed under sort of British culture. Yes, English. Yes. Yes They they're like if we strip a nation of its language We'll you know we can we can dominate and that's what they did They try to eradicate the language, but I think as a result of that what that what it Did was create a fire in the Welsh say you absolutely will not kill this language And they fought it for hundreds of years. There was my grandmother's generation was the generation where they used to have the where the The piece of word around their neck saying they wouldn't speak Welsh, you know, otherwise It was called the Welsh knot and and this is the English did well They would turn communities on each other So a child hearing another child speaking Welsh was allowed to put the piece of word around their neck and then that child at the end of the day would be Flogged so this is how they kind of did it. So there was a zeal to my parents going This language will not die. It will never die and we'll make sure it doesn't you've talked about One of the reasons you find doing the American accent easy, but the British act of the English accent hard Yeah, it's because of that colonial baggage Absolutely absolutely and that's when I feel the most fake when I have to do a southern English accent when I have to get and receive pronunciation RP. Yeah, that's when I feel like oh, I just feel Fake fake and also distasteful. Yes. I just sit because we used to grow we grew up in our house mimicking that language in a derogatory way going. Oh, yeah, darling do do passing cucumber sandwiches, you know, so so it the kind of the connotation of it was wildly negative Hmm You're voicing Han Solo in the first ever Welsh dub of Star Wars. Yeah, I mean amazing. Yeah, have you already done it? Yes, yeah, so please please do a scene for me Absolutely say something and Welsh for you're playing Han Solo. Oh my god. What was what was weird is obviously they'd had to translate all these Um, you know things that we'd grown up with knowing Star Wars and then I was saying it in Welsh and it was kind of like Pelladur kerchi you kind of go You know, it kind of what is that it's kind of like It's like tractor beam. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, there were words. I've never used before and I was tripping on them going. I can't even say it And at the same time it was this wildly familiar thing that I got to do a new I I mean it was so surreal the whole thing was surreal and then also you kind of go I can't voice How does it afford it's like Do you talk to me about that? No, I'm too scared but but But in in the same in the same vein, you know, I was so glad This is what I would have wanted growing up as a as a young Welsh kid is to Is to have these things that would be commonplace like yeah, we'll translate Star Wars into Welsh Um, so it buoyed me enormously to kind of go right so there's going to be a A generation of kids who watched Star Wars in Welsh. Hmm, amazing. I want to talk about um Carrey Russell. She's your partner. Thank God. You first Worked together in the Americans, which is just one of my all-time favorite shows. Hmm. What is it like to fall in up with your co-star? Kind of I remember the time going oh no because I wouldn't advise it, you know and and back in my 20s. I've done it and it Addended disastrously and usually Doesn't do the job any favors and I kind of went I'm never doing that again And then kind of in my mid 30s the Americans have and I was like oh no, this is happening again Do you question it because it might because you know obviously you're playing a romantic partner. So you're going hang on You know, let's be very serious about this and you know Carrey had two kids and it wasn't something I was going to enter into lightly Um And then sometimes you can't fight it, you know, it's ordained it's uh It was it was and it was going to happen and it did I'm curious about this also because Just when you are on this long running series And you're working with someone and you're romantically involved with someone You know usually you're Personal worlds and our work worlds are are separate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, is there any anything tricky about having that merge Wildly tricky because you know by by the end of the Americans just pregnant with our child Um, and I was trying to direct a pregnant um, but yeah, I'm not I'm not good enough or mature enough to kind of Because sometimes when we would argue I'd bring that into the scene and the director's like what is going on? You meant to be getting on really well. I was like um, I'm vice versa. You know, uh, so she's far more mature than me is um So yeah, I found that hard. I really did. I struggled with it. Yeah. Would you work together again without quite a hundred percent I'm always saying but I want to do something like heart to heart or moon lighting something like that Um, although she probably want to be Bruce Willis Are you competitive with her? Because my husband's a journalist and I'm he's not competitive with me, but I'm very competitive with him Brilliant Brilliant um No, no and I know Hmm. I'm genuinely trying to think that through properly No, and I think we're two very different people and one we have two very different attitudes towards Acting as well. She has got I think quite a complicated um relationship with acting And that she kind of goes over like, you know, I'm not um He always goes, oh Matthew's trained. I'm like, oh this is what I it makes No difference. It's like someone having gone to Harvard and someone like you know and being successful and someone being Yeah, journey men and being equally successful. It's just either you can do it or you can't or you you know You'll succeed or you won't there's no by that point Has no bearing what makes you a great actor in your view I just believe her always like I'm always there 100% with her She can't she in a way she was as she can't fake it so you're You're 100% invested on the right then and and that to me is the kind of almost all of it For acting with me if I believe it then I'm off. I'm with you and what doesn't matter where we go Um, and I always believe her. How do you both um Organize your lives. I feel like men don't get asked this enough, which is why I'm asking you Yeah, in a sense. We always ask women how are they organizing their life and I'm just I'm wondering actually as both actors She's in the middle of the diplomat and that's, you know, an ongoing series. Yeah, uh, thank god. Yeah How do you organize parenting and acting and all that stuff for children? Oh, it's like a circus. It's like a circus We both we both have uh Moleskin planners. We don't when we don't we don't do the calendar thing. Yeah So we sit down with little nubs of pencils. Uh, that's how we that's how we do it But it's it is one of the hardest elements of you know The the circus life now I keep making the joke. I'm like we're just saving money for the kids therapy when they're older like they're never around So it's hard. It's hard. It's it's been it's played spinning Have you ever turned something down so that carry could do it or vice versa? Um But the the one rule we kind of have if if if there's a A project comes along. We're like I can't turn this down. Then we make it work Whatever whatever it is there are some there have been projects whereby um Clearly a very quite Impressive. We're made to go listen That this film is shooting is these the days this is the cast this is director. I got I don't want to read it Just turn it down. Yeah, cuz I can't I'd rather not read it and go oh my god But I know like she's in the middle of the diplomat. I can't do it. So don't send it to me. I've done that a couple of times Yeah, she's done she's done the same too, so you know, it's it's equal in that sense - Hmm, she's also nominated for the diplomat. - Yeah. - You're this real Emmy power couple this year. - Yeah, yeah. - Emmy power couple. - Emmy power couple, that's gonna be on your back. - Yeah, EPC. - EPC. - Yeah. - I mean, do you talk about it and if you've gained out the different scenarios? Because, you know, you won for the Americans, she's been nominated eight times. - I know. - I think even has not won. - I know, I know. - I mean, do you talk about like, she wins, you lose, you lose, she wins. What are our faces gonna do, you know, when they pan to us immediately? - I always make jokes. Like, I say, if you don't win this time, I'm gonna go, she's like, don't do that. - I mean, Jay-Z does it for Beyonce. - Right. - I mean, there could be a thing. - Right, I should start a thing going, "Gee, that's a big guy." Like, if she doesn't, if she doesn't win. No, we don't, we don't, we don't really talk about that. We talk about the more that the logistics of the night and which party are you gonna go to after? - Hmm, would you rather she wins than you? Like, if you're 100%, 100%. - Okay. I saw Samantha Morton say recently, she hasn't worked at all since doing the Odyssey. Yeah, and it reminded me of what we've just talked about, which is, you know, those times in your life where you've had these fallow periods where, you know, you've had to sort of take the Tom Hanks view of like, this is a moment in a two-shell pass and you have to take the long view of your career. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Has this moment right now where, you know, nominated for two Emmys really have the hot show of the summer where everyone's talking about it. You know, Emmy power couple. (laughing) - And the only PC, yeah. - Have you finally, do you think cemented your status with this, though? Do you finally feel safe? - Yes, I know, I know that's terrible answer. You've, I find myself at moments going, "Maybe I can relax," and then you kind of go, "Oh, that's the death knell if you do." Do you know what I mean? And you've, I've just been through it. I've been up and down so much. I kind of go, "I'm never quite comfortable." And in a way, I think it gives you something. It keeps you a bit, a little bit hungry. - What are you hungry for now? - Movies to me are still the kind of, the grail because we grew up watching big Hollywood movies. And I was like, "Oh, movies." You know what I mean? They still have that aloe. The Oscars still have the aloe to me 'cause you kind of go, "That's another echelon." You always think, especially with the awards, you think it'll fulfill something gaping hole that's been in your entire life. And you go, "If I just win in a awards, it'll fulfill everything." And it does nothing. The kind of drive, the whatever hole you're trying to fill is still very much at the center of your gut. - Is that why you continue to audition? I mean, you audition for a role and you didn't get, you really wanted to be in the Bob Dylan biopic. - I mean, is that what drives the need to go and kind of still do that at this stage? - Yeah, and I thought, and also, like if you want something, get after it, go and do it, get it, you know, prove to them you can do it. I still have the, I still, I was kind of relieved that I still had that hunger to go, "I'll audition." I'm not, you know, I'll go, "Yeah, of course I will." - But you didn't get it. How do you deal with rejection at the stage in your career? - It's when they say, "I was like, who got it?" They went, "Ed Norton." I was like, "Oh, okay." No, that's terrible. It was like, I'd had no audition for a little bit and I didn't get, I felt crappy 'cause it reminds you of everything you used to do, you used to make yourself vulnerable, you used to give yourself all this hope and then you'd be knocked down. It was good, I was, I got, I was kind of, in live and me again. It kind of gave me a, I remember the hunger of your 20s when you're like, "I'm gonna get that part." - All right, last question. Geography. - Exactly, yes. - Tell me about Finland. - Yeah, no. You talked about having the super objective, right, in your work and it serves your motivation no matter what you're doing and I'm wondering what your super objective is in life. - Yeah, well, I mean, we touched on it 'cause you keep thinking, if I just do this, I'll feel satisfied, if I just, if I win an award, I'll feel how superficial, I feel, it'll trust. - Validated. - Yes, and I'll fulfill something in myself, and I think ultimately it's to do a part where I can look back and I go, I'm satisfied with that. That's what keeps you moving forward is like, okay, when am I gonna do one part that I look at and go, I did it. - You're hamlet. (laughing) - Yes, my hamlet, it's 79 years of age. And is there a super objective in terms of the way you live your life? - Hacking back to you first question about David Niven, I wanna get to a place where I just feel confident and just kind of, I'm not faking that. I'm not faking the kind of, oh, I'm, you know, I'm happily confident that I genuinely feel calm and confident in myself. When will that come? - Matthew Reese, I wish it on all of us. I don't think that you're alone in that particular struggle. - True, true, yes, that is all that sail, that good ship until we find it. - Until we find it. - Thank you so much. - Thank you for this invite. - And I've greatly enjoyed it. - Likewise. - That's actor Matthew Reese. To watch this interview and many others, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/@symboltheinterviewpodcast. This conversation was produced by Wyatt Orm. It was edited by Alison Benedict, mixing by Sophia Landman, original music by Dan Powell, Alisha Beitu, and Marion Luzano. Photography by Philip Montgomery. The rest of the team is Priya Matthew, Seth Kelly, Paola Newdorf, Joe Bill Munoz, Eddie Costas, Amy Marino, Mark Zemmel, David Her, Gavi Contreras, Kathleen O'Brien, and Brooke Minchers. Next week, David talks with Conflict Resolution Expert, Priya Parker. - In so many circles, in so many churches, in so many families, we believe that conflict is close to sin, right? It's immoral. And so in families, just literally shifting the belief that all conflict is wrong, to actually saying the conversations we're not having is preventing us from deeper connection as a family. It can be a radical shift. I'm Lulu Garcia-Navarro, and this is the interview from The New York Times. (upbeat music)