The Carter Young Altman Interview with Throwing Fits

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That's the realreal.com. Terms apply Our guest this week is an old soul who's forever young. He swapped the D for Big Ben Paws and moved to London so young Carter could go farther, go further, go harder. He might live in that continent, but the brand is firmly planted in his Americana roots. And as the label maturizes, every collection asks a simple question that seems to evade a lot of you MFers, what if we made wearable clothes that don't suck butt? Here to chat with us about men's fashion victims, working at Kith and Aliqs and making custom suits for the most stylish guys out there, founder and designer of the brand Carter Young. Carter Young, Albin Carter, how the hell are you? I'm pretty good. I like that intro. Thanks. That was great. Did we get any of that? Did we miss anything? No, I think the not sucking butt thing you pulled from my website. Yes, absolutely. No, I think your publics is told me to include that. How many people think your name is Carter Young? Honestly, like Mr. Young and I submit you. I mean, it is. Yeah. You're right, but your initials are "see ya." I thought about that. Your brand used to suck ass, but then you pivoted to not sucking ass. That's like, it was a conscious decision. Yeah. What if we didn't suck butt? As customers and fans are rich, we appreciate the pivot, the hard thing to make an amazing close Carter. Thank you so much for joining us. Flying all the way back to New York to talk to us for two hours. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm leaving right after. The first thing you want to do is just a quick little fit check if you want to run us through everything you wore to pod today. Okay, I'm wearing some kind of like dance shoes. I think they're from that brand Toga Verilist. They got the metal in the heel. We have the taps. Yeah, the taps. Can you tap dance them? I can try. Maybe after the pod, I'll be able to do two steps. Okay. You'll toss them move, little two step. I got some helmet-langings on. Oh. And then-- Are they from your tenure at Helmet? No, actually, I just bought them. Archive? Yeah, they're-- I got them in Portugal, so I don't know when they're from. And then-- Yeah, I think they're from the United States, though. Uniclo. No, okay. The best. Great socks, for sure. Is it Uniclo, huge and London, the way it is in New York, and obviously, other parts of the world? I mean, I think the stores are big, but people don't talk about it the same way. In my experience. Maybe they do. That's stiff upper lip. Yeah, exactly. And then-- Is Helmet your preferred denim brand besides your own, maybe? I'm actually never owned a pair of the jeans before. For someone built like you, I could see them being a top to your choice. Yeah, it's really nice. I should. Yeah, it must be nice to be a fucking gumby ass motherfucker, dude. Yeah, that's also how I describe myself. What about the fly ass belt you wore? Oh, my mom gave this to me. I have no idea what it's from, but it's got velvet flocking on the side. Oh, shit. I thought it was like a zebra print, but it's actually like hand drawn. I see slash. I think it was hand drawn, actually. Is that slash from Guns and Roses? He fucking looks like some type of cool wearing top hat. Yeah. It's a mother's clothes you can get. All right, great gift from mom. Shout out to her. Yeah, shout out mom. One of the tops. This is one of my denim shirts and then one of my blazers from last season. Nice. Hardware? This is also from my mom. Oh, wow. A brand called Tatooision. I don't know it, but she's good gift giver, dude. Yeah, I don't think she gave them as gifts. I think I just kind of took. Oh, well, fuck you then. Just from your mom. It's a great gift, dude. Okay. It's not from your mom. It's of your mom. It's tough. You're going to rob someone, rob your mom. Do you still the earrings to your mom too? No, definitely. Okay. Those are hers. Oh, they are hers. No, no. What about the panties? Oh, I prefer to keep that to myself. Oh, wait. Is it like a, you're gatekeeping? No, it's Jo Kim that I was wearing panties. Oh, wow. I think they're also from you know. Okay. And this leather jacket you came in on? Oh, yeah. It's actually from the gap. Vintage? It must be. It has to be. It's pretty distress, no. I don't know when it's from though, but it's pretty. A fashion forward for the gap. Vintage gap. I love it. Yeah. Yeah, like an asymmetrical zipper. Where are you getting most of your personal vintage from these days? What brands? Um, I think like I am shopping a lot from the gap. I think like the the mass market stuff like 30 years ago is quite interesting. Just looking at the material and what they were able to do and sell at that price point. Um, I just really like studying that more than like high end designer stuff. Sure. And then the designer stuff is interesting, but often not achievable for the prices that I want to sell things. So you're shopping vintage not just to wear in your own rotation, but also to understand and study like the construction and technique and materials. I'd say that like everything I consume hopefully will inform what I do in my professional life. Okay. In that sense. Helmet Langnockov. Jean's coming soon. Yeah. The reference pieces are on his body. So in New York right now. Yeah. Um, uh, maybe not like popular. Party wise, but definitely vintage abracrombies having the moment. Yeah. It's moment. Yeah. Um, we were just talking to Chad Senzel. It was a store over here, which you should go to by the way. Okay. Um, yeah. Like right now it's like it's abracrombie. It's two thousands and two, two thousand tens of abracrombie. What is it in London? Is it gap? Is it abacrombie? I mean, honestly, it's a lot of like vintage tailoring. Like I think tailoring is really big in London. It kind of always has been and never really died down the same way it did in the States. And like there's still a law and tradition of like the spoke menswear tailoring. So I see a lot of people buying like old suits like old ship that was like made for some Lord from Savile row. Or is it like, I do our style. I mean, it depends on your hanging out with. I think like it all exists there. Okay. Yeah. I mean, like this stuff that I know people are buying it like custom made stuff that was from someone else. Yeah. Oscar Wilde sucked dick in his code. Yeah. I mean, like if you can, if you can get like the provenance ticket on that, I'm sure it go for all the dead rich guys, especially if they're white. Yeah. Um, and you're sipping on a Poland spring. You chose to, even though you said to which he goes the best sparking water, you're like, I don't want to, I don't want to get burpee. I'm trying, yeah, I'm trying to try to be a professional. Okay. First time on Mike. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I've never really used the microphone. Oh, let's get right into it. Yeah. The brand Carter Young. Mm. So hot right now. Mm. You flying business. Sorry. Are you flying business class? Uh, no, I wish. I'm flying on the Concord, though. So there's only one class. You know, the Concord doesn't. Yeah. It's going to say, what? Do you do, uh, what do you do? I did, I did fly Virgin here, Delta partner. Okay. Love Delta. You know, it's a hub through DTW where I'm from. Do you do, do you do like, because you dress nice, right? You dress a good nice boy. Do you, do Bommi fits on the plane or do you dress up like, you know, men used to wear suits on to fly? Yeah, I usually wear like dress tails on the plane. No, I mean, I, with a cigarette holder. Yeah, with a contraption in compote, yeah. That makes trust. Um, no, you know, like it, I think a sweatshirt's cool, but I don't like sweatpants on the plane. What do you mean? I mean, sweatpants, like, there's nothing wrong with it. I just feel like I get too hot sitting in one place. Sure. And then it's uncomfortable. Yeah. And then you got swamp ass for six hours. It's not my journey. Well, if you listen to this, buy some fucking Carter Young's, this man can fly business. He serves it. Thank you guys. Fucking because it's very good. Yeah. Also that you do movies on the planer, you worker or you sleeper depends on, depends on the day. I watched this day and no day Lewis movie, the sins of the father. Mm-hmm. You got seen there? Yeah. Classic. Yeah, I like watching movies that I wouldn't ever find on my own. So if there's something that I've never heard of, I'll try that. Okay. So it's like you're digging deep into what the Delta archive is. Yeah, the Delta archive. It's basically as good as the criteria. Yeah, but it's 50,000 feet in the air. So it's cool. It's harder to get to. Can you tell us why you moved to London? Yeah. I moved to London. I mean, there's kind of a twofold reason. Like my girlfriend really wanted moved to London. Maddie went to school there before and there was an opportunity to move there and she's like, you know, I think you'd really enjoy it. I've always kind of been an anglophile or breaking up with you. No, it wasn't something I wanted to move there. And then also like I've always been an anglophile. So I've always grown up on like, you know, like a clockwork orange and tenny Burgess movies or like Shane Meadows movies or you know, all that kind of stuff. In English music, I'd joy division. But then from a business perspective, it made sense because I was trying to do the brand here in the States. But the fashion calendar means that when you present something in New York, it's after all the buyers, you know, spend their budgets in Europe. So from a wholesale perspective. Yeah, it was like, I was kind of like, I'm not really doing anything and you know, I was at the time designing for Urban Outfitters. It was a nice job, but I wanted more. Like I wanted to launch my own business. You had a head of pants, is that right? Yeah. It was the chief international pants officer. CPL. That's a good ass business guy, dude. Chief pants officer. Yeah. No, it was. I'm a pants bitch. I wore the pants at this company. It's funny. I've switched it up to saying trousers because in England, that just means underwear. Oh, sure. All pants means underwear, right? Yeah, it's a different job. It's a different skill set. Yeah. Wait, if you hadn't moved, do you think we're having this conversation? Could you like, did that have to happen? I mean, I do think it had to happen for us to grow a wholesale business and I sure We're surely like the wholesale businesses led to a lot of the notoriety that we've achieved recently because we're now in like nine countries and we're in like 22 shops and you know, people have all these different touchstones around the world to interact with the brand, whereas otherwise it would have just been something they heard about online and kind of never really had a chance to interact with. But I don't know, I like to think I would have found a way. You know, it's like, I was like a dog with my teeth and something, you know, it wasn't going to take a lot of time. Does it also make sense from a creative aspect where like you're closer to Europe where you source a lot of your materials? Yeah, I think like it's completely changed our sourcing strategy definitely. Like you used to use a ton of dead stock shardings from the US a little bit less now. I mean, we still use some of it, but just like the import structure of everything. Yeah, it's just changed the way we're looking for materials. How does working and living in London affect the creative, the creation of a brand that is still very much rooted in Americana? How do you kind of, what's the tension there? I mean, I don't actually know if it's such a tension. Like I think it's quite interesting to live outside of the thing that you're studying. You can kind of see it more objectively. Like I found myself being attracted to things that I didn't even know were specific to the American experience before I moved away from it. Like even something simple, like the way you sit in a diner and they refill your coffee, like that experience just doesn't exist where I'm living now. Top of your pun. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of a sweet interaction that you just don't get in one. What is it like? Just fucking. I'll be another seven quid mate. No, it's just like fuck off. They don't tell you to leave the table. Like they don't like bring the shit you can sit as long as you want. Oh, that's cafe culture. Yeah, but they don't like they're not going to like come over and check in. No, but then you don't have to tip so it all works out. Yeah, yes. You all don't got eye hop. No, no, you don't have eye hop. What's an example, maybe of like, I guess it's not a york a moment, but yeah, you're outside of the American echo chamber in Bumble and you're like, oh shit. That's free refills at the time. I don't know. I think it's like it's like getting a little bit more clarity on exactly what the brand's thesis is. Like, for example, being in the States, I was doing Americana where it was inspired by like the cultural candidate of American stuff like Steve McQueen and, you know, traditional ivy clothing and things like that. But I moved away. I've realized that what I'm trying to do is find a way to meet those references more contemporary. I think like it's almost a step removed from that original presentation of like American iconography. So I can see it in kind of a modern context where it's like post American iconography if that makes sense. Less of a copy and more of like a personal evolution. Yeah. Like, I've kind of rejected the word nostalgia, which used to be kind of prevalent in my work and my research and things like that because I'm not trying to recreate. I'm trying to evolve. Do you, it sounds like in the few interviews done before this, like, it sounds like do Americana is like a phrase that you don't really want. Like put on you. Is that fair to say? I think, I think new Americana is great. I think the issue is that what I think existed or what I was trying to add to the conversation was like, there was this New York thing and there was this like Southwest thing and there was this LA thing. And that's pretty much what you thought of when you thought of like Americana, right? Like the three verticals that you're allowed to dress in as a man. Oh, yeah. Like if you wear a Western shirt, people, yeah. It's Americana and that's specific to an area or like, you know, those like LA tailoring brands or like the, you know, baggy denim and that kind of stuff is like an LA thing or like amily on door and kiss and this crowd out here. And like I did think that there was a big swath of the country that was missing. So New Americana in my mind refers to like something else that's kind of in between those things. What is that? Well, I think it's like what I'm trying to do with the line. Like I think it's something that's not really informed by prep and East Coast Ivy style as much as some of the other brands that exist right now in the market. It's like barring a little bit from the Western stuff because I think, you know, Western clothing isn't specific to a region anymore. And it's certainly not like the LA thing. I think that is a very distinct look from what we're doing. So if you look at, I guess it's like a little bit akin to what we were talking about with like vintage Avrocrombie being collected. Like feels much more in the middle of the country and like the rust belt. What do most of your customers live? What's like the number one market? Is it New York? I mean, definitely the States is my biggest market in general. And then I'd probably say New York and LA are two biggest Nexus points. But then outside of that like Denmark and Japan are probably in competition for our second biggest market. Have things taken on a bit of a British flavor since moved over there? Whether I mean in a good way. Like have things taken on a British flavor? I think they always kind of had it. Like I think based on my reference points, like I was always kind of looking at British stuff. Like I did a collection inspired by David Toulis and Naked, like the film from the 90s. And it's like, yeah, that's a really British movie because it reminded me of stuff I saw growing up. Super pressing. Yes. Super. Super. Super. But like, you know, reminded me of the Midwest, not the exact bleakness of British flavor. They got it for closed food. Not so much. I mean, there's some cool food. Like what's the, what's the go to? I don't know, man, like Turkish foods really good. Oh, yeah, I meant like traditional British food. Oh, yeah, I can't. I'm not the good chef that other people brought in. He's about a Brexit British food. Yeah. I'll say, Camberwell Arms. Very good. What is that? It's just like a pub with really nice food. Yeah. Like pie. Like pie. Jelly to eels. Yeah. You know what? I'm really blessed to get some jelly to eels. It's not that easy to find. Really? Yeah. There's like a few places that do it. You gotta wake up with big jobs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's big everywhere. Okay. I'm gonna dress it. We gotta get him in some fucking made to measure. Do you have enough dead sock fabric? No, we'll find a way to have a canine. Yeah, but he does. I've been chatting with him. Okay. Fijan's a nice soldier. Like of course, I've a direct line to the general. Okay. He brought it up the flagpole with the ball. Oh, is that dream booking? I'm not an Australian when he was, um, when he was detained in Perth. I was about to fucking riot. I'm, wait, why was he detained? Uh, he, for being woke. For being, for being, uh, too boss, bro. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big John dude. It's all backwards. Truly. But then it was like, yeah, he's gonna go back and get his money. It was something with the visas. I don't know. Okay. It was really crazy. What, uh, I mean, okay. So you defined for us. Thank you very much that New York is very Omelie-Endored. Kid right now. Yeah. Okay. I'm not arguing against that. Um, what about London? What's the men's we're seeing looking like in London right now? There's a lot of great young brands like, I think that a lot of the creative industry in London has moved to Paris after Brexit. Huh. But the brands that are still left, I think there's something really incredible once like, um, specielle and nodding hill. I think they're doing incredible stuff. Um, some of our show roommates like Sage Nation, I think he's doing great stuff. Yeah. Well, I'm see too. Yeah, exactly like killing incredible and like, uh, studio Nicholson's really interesting. Um, yeah, it's kind of what I'm making. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a few different things. Shout out Felix for sure. Yeah. The Prince. Um, but is it, is it, like how do you describe the aesthetic? I've just like, forget the brands for something like, how are the people dressing? Is it still kind of soccer kits and jorts? There's definitely some of that. But I do think there's like, it's almost, it's hard, it's really hard to describe. Like, I think that the closest analog in the US to what I'm seeing, like, I'm a cooler, younger fashion people out there is like what corner it clothing to wear is doing in Philadelphia. Like with that kind of mix of vintage stuff that's some of its designer, some of its not designer, but it just looks like a cool cartoon character. A redress, you know, an avatar. Yeah, you see in real life. Yeah, he said his fortnight skins. Yeah, it's like cool vintage, uh, military stuff and tailoring all kind of jumbled together. But I wouldn't say that there's like an overarching thing except for like, I'm not seeing a ton of logos. I'm not seeing a lot of prints anymore. It's pretty like silver. So sell my Cortez. Uh, I don't know. Cortez are cool. Oh, you mean the, you mean the streetwear brand? Yeah. I thought it was Cartier. Okay. You tell us. I don't speak British. And I'll translate for you. Like they tend to enjoy logos in my, in my, no, like trap stars. You like, there are like that stuff exists. It's just like, you know, when I'm hanging out with like Hugo, for example, from my my family, he's not our trap. He dresses like he's from the midway thermal under a final. That's what it's like, that's what's cool. Right. But that's kind of what's cool everywhere. I think it's like global homogenization. You don't think that they're, but so then what would make the men's wear the, uh, the London scene like unique or specific? And that is a very hard question because it is so flat. Everything's been so flat. Yeah. I think it is like the, the, the tailoring heritage. Like I do think there is an understanding by the average person of like, how do you get something tailored to your body or like the need to have a tailored suit rather than just something off the rack? Is that because it's just so embedded in British culture? Yeah. I think it's like still super common to get suits made. Like I think there's just the same way that, you know, our market had been flooded with, um, you know, suit supplies, but no, both those types of things. I don't think it permeated in the same way there specifically in London. Like about a top man. Top man was great. A shout out top man. That was like, it's gone, right? Yeah, it's for a long time. Good. That was like my first suit for a lot of people. Yeah. Was it a, well, top was top in an urban same owner? No, no, different companies. Okay. It was top shop. You didn't even urban out for your suit. I don't think we made suits at the time. How skinny was your top man suit? Top, I don't think I could get in it now. Yeah. It was like, it was like, Indy Slees adjacent. This is like strokes ever probably. I was probably like 15 going to a school dance and I felt so cool. That's good. We're so cool. It was like way too blue though. I didn't really understand. It was like politicians. You know, like those brown shoes. You had the brown caramel shoes. Uh, I, I, I'll find a picture. I'll send you guys. Okay. Okay. What about, okay. What is a men's fashion victim look like in one? Just paint the picture for us. Uh, I mean, there's definitely like, well, my fashion victim, you mean, you know, like something tragic. like a sports page had asked. Like the way that you, if you had to just like blanket statement, blanket statement, you could explode a bit. Yeah. Blanket statement described like, I mean, you kind of did it with a New York guy and, you know, I understand why you would like describe it in that way, but if you had to do to one and what it would be. I think there's like a, still kind of like a blincy auger runoff thing happening, you know, like the really baggy mall denim and like a bomber jacket and a bad bleach hair job. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about, which is a shame. Like I'm not, I'm like, yeah, it's kind of like a two-hullis look, you know, not like one-hullis is way, but yeah, like one-hullis. One point five-hullis. Damn. Has movement of London, like what's the most British thing about you and how long you've been there for? I've been there for about two and a half years now and then actually haven't taken on like the British affictation. I don't think you don't talk like this. Yeah. Like Madonna. I can if you guys want me to. No, I think it make it bad part. I say like a few British things and I kind of guess what's it? Even like calling pants trousers, like it's just I got that locked in load. Right. It's a brosie cunt. Yeah. More or less. Brose. No, I'd say like in it, I recently stopped drinking coffee and I switched to tea. That's crazy. That's really British. Is it working? In what sense? I mean, were you drinking coffee because you enjoyed the taste or was it a caffeine thing? No, it was like I had such a bad caffeine addition that I was just getting headaches throughout the day. Seven eight. Damn. That's out of control. No, it's not. That's one Celsius. Yeah, just that one Celsius. It's more efficient, dude. Well, no, like I, I, uh, Maddie and I went to the Dominican Republic this summer and I came back with like a horrible stomach infection. I couldn't drink coffee. So it was like going through withdrawal at the same time. And I was like, I'm not going back to that sleepy boy. Yeah. I'm tired and I'm pooping. He is so tired. And I can't stop pooping. How many cups of tea you doing now? How many pots? I could, yeah, a conservative two or three. Do you do tea time at four o'clock or three o'clock? One of the fuck it is. Yeah, if you try to call me during that time, I'm eating finger sandwiches. What do you, what do you, you come, what do you do? You're doing cheese and shit. What are you doing? Yeah, yeah, all of that. Skones. Yeah, let's go. Let's go. Call it cream. Piscat. Yeah, do you do a jam or cream first? I don't know. Yeah. Neither. I'm not, we don't drink tea. Yeah, I'm not a bitch ass. We have representation when we paint taxes. Or real mirror. Okay, so what do you guys do at 4 p.m. This is a hell of a nap. We don't have to ask that. That's pretty Spanish, have you? Yeah. Is there anything that still gives you culture shock in the UK? After two and a half years? Yeah, like when I leave the doctor and I don't have to pay anything. It's like, I'm like, I get my wallet out and I know you can just leave. You're released. Your body's no good here. Is the NIH? You're still bleeding. You still have a stomach infection. But you don't have to pay us. Is the care up to stuff? I gotta say they're taking care of me. The other day though, I got a call from the doctor. It was a number I didn't recognize and she was like, "Oh, I found something concerning on your blood work. You'll come back again." Oh, your butt. I think she said your butt. No, no, my blood. Your butt work? Your butt work came back. Yeah, they do that thing there. They didn't do that in the States. But they do a full-bottled walk. A full-bottled walk. A full-bottled walk. Yeah. But she called me. She's like, "Will you come in and like get this checked out?" Turns out it was totally fine. But the fact that the doctor called me, she was worried about something and then I had her personal line. I was like, "Tight, never had that." She called me for her cell phone. I know, it was maybe a little unprofessional, but I don't know. I don't know. She fell back. He's my doctor, T.M. He honest to grab. Yeah, she sends me, like, I'm on her close friend's story. It's all just like pimple popping. Okay, so getting good treatment from medical professionals is still shocking to you. Yeah, it's crazy. Are you British citizen? No. So you can be an American and there's those take care of you? Yeah, I'm on a visa that gives me like NHS coverage. Oh, shit. Yeah, just switched on to that, like earlier this year. So before that, you were like, because I've heard from British people that, I mean, I think they're spoiled. They don't know how bad we have it over here. But a lot of British people don't fuck with like the NHS or NIH or whatever. They're just like, "Yeah." I think anyone can find a reason to complain about whatever they have. The birds do have complaining. Is there anything you. What's the thing you miss most about? America. Oh, man. I'm probably like driving places. Oh, yeah. Yeah, like road trips and stuff. Car culture. Yeah, car culture. I'm just killing the world. I hate the pedestrian walkable cities. Yeah. You're not driving over there at all? Yeah, I have my license and I've driven taking a few day trips and things like that. But there's no point in having a car. Like the bus has run on time. Gotcha. Big public transportation guy now. Huge public transportation. Unfortunately. I sit on the top of the bus and I just pretend to stop. Yeah. I'm pretending to roll a coaster wheel. Yeah. You take the tube. So I take the tube, but I haven't ridden a bike in London. First time I've ever ridden a city bike was yesterday trying to catch up with Maddie's dad and the marathon. And I got one of the boosted ones. Yeah. The motorized ones. White ghost. Incredible. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What are these barriers? They used to be faster. Really? They kept. They used to top out it like, I want to say 18 and now it's at 15. Oh, it's at 15. Yeah. But they didn't know the price. Yeah. So you take longer. But you pay the same. Do you have the tunes going and like you're doing the main character thing? No, I was like incredibly stressed trying to find him on the tracking app on the marathon. It wasn't like fun, but it was on cut gems. Wait, you don't have like, lines and shit? You don't take lines in Paris? No, it just walked everywhere. I walked like, if I can, like between 10 and 20,000 steps a day. Consciously. And you're about to be an e-bike convert. I don't know. It was cool. You know, every once in a while. You know, it's kind of like drinking like every once in a while, you know. But I'm not going to do that shit every day. Well, you could. Yeah, I could. But I'm talking more fun. I don't know if you're talking about drinking or e-biking. Yeah. Little bit of both. Do do them at the same time. Yeah, maybe that's an idea. When you're coming back or you're visiting New York for the first time, like you said, like three years, and I think you said off my foot. Yeah, it's been a while. What are you like most looking forward to do? Is it like just like walking around and drinking it in? Like what? I know you're here for like your very busy right? Yeah, yeah. But what's like what was something you were excited just like personally? Well, like both of my brothers are here, like I mentioned. So doing anything with them is a blast and they're wives and like, you know, our niece who's here now. So we it's not that often we get to like spend that much time together. I mean, even just like going out to eat or walking around is fun. Just like you say, drinking it in. But yeah, I kind of see my old haunts and like seeing the stores. We're in like here to go see Quava and. Yeah, everything's a bank now. Yeah, sorry. Everything just got turned into a bank. It really is green. There's a second rice to riches. Yeah, yeah. What is that about? Sir, another rice to riches has just been erected. What's their signs like no skinny bitches allowed or something? That's what it says. Yeah, it's just a package only. I think the one on the on Spring Street and so it says like literally no skinny bitches. It's incredible. The city's changed. Like you've noticed that like straight up. Certainly. Yeah, it's very different. I mean, it's nice to imagine we see it, but when you're in it, it's, you know, any perspective. No, it really is crazy. Like I was walking down towards Soho and like even big name stores that were there are close now. It's like no more 21 Mercer Nike, bro. Isn't there a Nike store? There's a Nike one on Broadway. Oh, no more 21 Mercer. Got it. No cool guy shit. No fortunate. Yeah, no cool guy shit. Can't make a custom bespoke pair of forced ones anymore. I feel like cool stuff has moved kind of eastward. So kind of all in this area. Yeah, you know what? Dimes square. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've heard of that. It's made its way across the pond. What are you like, are you like drinking in inspiration when you're here or you're just handling business, seeing family? I mean, it's mostly like, I just haven't been back in a long time. So it's like seeing all the people that, you know, I used to, essentially when I started the brandos here. So like, used to hang out with then like, I'm with my PR Henry Kessler. We're spending some time together and like, I'll be done from GQ. We're going to hang out later. Just gotta be. Yeah, you know, like just seeing people like you guys where it's like, when I was in New York, it was cool to run around with everyone, but not everyone makes it out to London or Paris. So that's true. Sounds like broke. I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that. Is the plants like get back here more often? Yeah, yeah, certainly. I think it's just been a while because we had spent so long setting up the business somewhere else. Like Adam moved out, my business partner Adam moved out to London. November last year, we opened a studio there in like February. So it just took a long time to get on our feet. Before I was ready to like come back and travel and do stuff that wasn't like in a media day to day task. Yeah, what if you had done if Adam did not enjoy London? Oh man, I think about this all the time. We nervous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it really does. Does he like on it? He does. Yeah, he fits in perfectly. There was no backup plan. Well, I mean, Julius, one of our other people that helped us with the business, one of our business partners, it lives out here in New York still. So like we still have some nexus out here, but like if Adam wasn't there with me, I'd business would not be what it is today. Okay. It's us together working every day in the same space that I think has really allowed us to like get ahead. What's the, how do you guys share job responsibilities? Like what do you handle? What is Adam handle? What is Julius handle? So Julius does all the production. So he's production sourcing strategy. I'm like designed technically like CEO. I'm kind of calling like the creative and kind of strategy decisions that we're going to be making. And I'm label, right? Yeah, exactly. And then Adam is like in charge of all of the operations. So he's often like he's off. He's interfacing with like pretty much any company that we work with or like people that we work with. Like everyone knows Adam. Like, no, what's your, what's your design process? I mean, usually it starts with like if I'm thinking about a new collection, we'll start with like a piece of media. So like spring 26 was, I read that short story, the swimmer by John Chiever, which I recommended to me alcohol. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another depress, you love the press, this guy can't stop swimming. Yeah, I think it's, it's guy loves water. It's too much water. Yeah, dude, I love the press stuff. You love an existential crisis clearly. I think it's like, I watch Mad Men Too Young, you know, that's how you be a creative. Depression, get drunk and shit on your wife. Yeah, so I like Chiever. Is that, is that, I'm sorry, is that like flyover, not flyover, is that like the swath, does every piece of media you consume have to do with like the swath of America that you kind of are pulling inspiration from or is it not necessarily one for one? 'Cause I think that's the one for one. It's supposed to be like Long Island or like, yeah, long Island or rest of New York. No, it's not a one to one, not even everything like takes place in America that I'm, you know, interested in or absorbing. It's like the same way as like, you know, it's too a lot of kids like Joy Division is an American band because when they're 13, they find a record and they're like, they don't know it's from England, they're just like listening to something that they find transgressive. You know, it's like, this guy killed himself, what? Yeah, what the fuck? Oh my God, like, yeah, it's like finding out him or like Elliot Smith killed themselves. It was like huge for music. So what the fuck? I love this. People do that. What the knife, place. He killed himself twice? Yeah, whoof. It's the hard way to go. Yeah, yeah. Probably should just hang yourself like Ian Curtis. All right, so Josh, he is a swimmer. Yeah. He's the source material for spring 26. Yeah. I was, yeah, I was thinking a lot about like, that type of guy, that type of era, what he would be wearing and then thinking about how those codes have kind of permeated through culture and trickled down until like what we wear today and kind of playing with that for colorway and materiality and stuff. But it really starts with like, I have like a loose idea like that and then it's all about fabric and cut and like what silhouettes I'm interested in right now. Or it's a reaction really against what I did six months before what I'm seeing people wearing in the streets. What's that? How does that reaction typically go when you look back at your past designs with little hindsight? Well, the thing is by the time it hits the store, I've been looking at it for about nine months. So it's not that I like have disdain for anything I've worked on. It's just like, I'm almost disinterested in it because I've sat with it for a while. The seasons aren't in conversation with each other. You're like moving on. Yeah, more or less. I mean, it's like there's an innovative process. Like there's always going to be denim in the line. I'm not going to look at denim and be like, "Oh, whatever." "No more jeans." "Floffish." "You can't swim in jeans." No, I can't do that. Oh, you can, but it's probably shit. I wouldn't recommend. You might drown yourself. Yeah. Yeah, I would say that like there is a conversation in the sense of like if there is a silhouette that's performing well, like there is a commercial mind to the medium that we chose. Like you've got to bring it forward. Sure, but it's often like, I don't just want to do something in another color unless I thought it was still relevant six months later. Obviously this clothing I make, the intention is to be you know, perennially relevant. I just mean in terms of like where I am in my creative impulse. Right. What does celibats for Cartagone? I think that like the thing that's been growing quickest for us is our custom tailoring offering. Like we're going to talk about that. Yeah. I mean, even just like because we offer a made to measure suit, it just you know, about $1,200 starting. You just had to do the conversion in my head. There's a lot of people that have never bought a custom suit before who are coming to us for their first time. And because Adam and I are so approachable in the studio, I think like it's way easier to understand what you're looking at when you're looking at a suit. Whereas some places are a little more Byzantine and I try and understand like what you're getting. So it's almost instead of going mass going more narrow, like literally stuff made for one person. That's like what is resonating. I think it's like incredibly special because I think what a lot of people forget is like tailoring is often in the modern context worn around like lifestyle milestones, right? Like if you have a wedding or a graduation or a work event, like you know, you're expected to kind of dress up and wear a suit. And I think like a lot of the mid market suiting retailers don't really exist anymore. Like the prices either gone too high or they've gone solo and down to like rentals or like cheaper materials. And so I think that like when people are trying to get into wearing things like we're trying to meet them where they are with like, yeah, it's not inexpensive, but it's affordable if you've never been before. That is kind of, you know, a lot of guys will like to hit us up about like, you know, to get that first big boy suit we'll say for like a better term. And if they say, oh, I got like whatever, $1,000, $1,200, you are kind of in like a dead zone. And it is cool. So you got to go lower, yeah, or save yourself or go to the base yourself. Used to be the basic suit. And then it was the blood load suit. But it's like suits, it's like suit supplies there at a thousand bucks. And it's like, do you really want that? Yeah, yeah, you know, they're kind of designs and how on trend or relevant if you kind of ebbs and flows. So I think you're doing the Lord's work as well as try to sell. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I think like it meets people where they are. It's a need that like my both my brothers got married two years ago. And it's like getting them suits for the wedding was really, we ended up just making them and made my oldest brother suit with Manuel from Camisa Smanolo. So like, we ended up just making the things we wanted because we couldn't find them. You know, so if made to measure suiting is what's really taking off. What if a card of young fucking sits and sucks and doesn't make any money for you? It's crazy because like nothing, really? No, no. Everything's ahead. Yeah, no business. No, I mean, there's things we're experimenting with like every season, we'll try to push the boundaries of like what we're able to do. And I think sometimes we get it on and it's good. And sometimes it's like, you know, kind of a slower mover for me. And honestly, a lot of times it's like the things that I don't expect to do well do really well. Like, for example, that like our t-shirts for us have done super well. Like the stripe boys. That does get nice. Thank you. The face, the ice blue. Oh, you know, you know the color way. I was just a little shopper. Some was around it. I was a little shopping. Yeah, but like, you know, it's a t-shirt from it's not inexpensive for a t-shirt and like communicating quality for $85. All right. I think it's a bit more. I think it's 95. Ooh, wow. It could be wrong. You make so bomb on it. Maybe my beautiful t-shirt. If I pound. Yeah. It's tough with the conversion. Right. Changes. But yeah, the t-shirts have done extremely well for us and also our wholesale partner. And that was surprising. Yeah, I think like our price bracket, like if you're spending that much money on a suit or you're spending that much money on a shirt, like there's so many options for t-shirts, but I guess because we tried to develop it with a really heavy weight fabric and interesting cut and, you know, details. I was surprised that people understood exactly like-- It's a ringer T, right? Yeah, exactly. That's a neck, not at the sleeves. Correct. Yeah. It's $125. Thank you. Tariffs. Yeah. The tariff fuck you up. Yeah, it wasn't great. I mean, fortunately, we shipped the bulk of the collection before the Dementimus was closed. Oh, thank God. But yeah, for individual orders, like, yeah, it's been a bit tricky, but we've-- What's your strategy? Well, still our stock is in the US. So right now, we don't have to pay tariff. Oh, but I'm saying, as it comes to next season-- Our district is here. Correct. Yeah. As it comes to next season, we're like figuring out whether we're going to do TDP or still in the process. What's the vibe with just like the other small brands in London that are like having to deal with this shit? Like, are they-- Like, literally, I've seen some people-- they're like, oh, we actually set up like US affiliates. So we can kind of loop all around that. Others are just like, yo, we're not shipping to the US right now. Or they're in the US. They can't afford to. Or they eat it. Or they pass on the price of consumer. What's the general vibrations right now? I mean, there is no overall consensus on what to do. I think a lot of people are just like whatever works for them in their clientele. If your market's big in the US, you're probably offering some sort of rebate against the tariff, because otherwise, people just aren't going to buy it. But if you're mostly distributed in Europe and Asia, maybe you just let the customers in the USA if they want to go to one of our wholesale partners. Yeah, it's really-- it's difficult, because it changes so consistently. That's the only constant in this whole new relationship between countries that it's hard to predict. The only constant is change. That's so change. Who does that, bro? Fucking bars, bro. Hot MacGondy said that. No, Phil Knight said that. I have that above my desk. Nice. Red Brother picture of the girl in the bikini with the beer. I keep the beer on the bottom shelf. And then a white Lamborghini Kuntosh. You guys bit in my office. Yeah, bro. This is kind of such as photos. No, I got a question for you. Does Essence owe you money? Yeah. What are you just not going to see it? Like what's the deal, dude? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to see it. Yeah. It's just forever gone. And maybe in a couple of years, I get a couple of $2. Is the amount that's on that list that's going around the internet like accurate? Do you have my amount for them? No. We probably could. It's public information. Yeah, but it's is it wrong? No, I just didn't read the email because I have my own like accounts receivable. So it's like, I didn't need to check the list because, as long as they don't use fucking 3 million-- All right, how long will you-- I got it, right? Let's see what it's like. $24,788.55 USD. Yeah, that's like part of their order. [LAUGHTER] We didn't ship the whole thing. Oh, yeah. You're like, boy, I can give you a ship. Yeah, like we ship part of it and that is the amount of, you know, what they all say. Damn, bro. That's pretty accurate. That was crazy. I mean, that was just some-- It's public information that was someone just put on their sub-stack like all the-- Is that just like Aaron Dirty laundry? You find that quick. I'm a professional. You're really good at this. He Googled. I agree. close it. You want to know what I googled? I googled essence money owed to carry on. That's created like the AI answer. Is that just like there's nothing you can do about it that that's just what it is. They you're losing that money. Sunk cause because they were too big were they so big that they could set the terms and kind of push you around. No, the terms are essentially that you have to pay upon delivery. But when you go into bankruptcy, Canadian bankruptcy law essentially puts all of their assets in their asset pile and all of their debts in the debt pile and there's a pecking order. Wait a little longer. You from a very Jacques moon. No, I'm a Vahua. You know, Justin Trill get your fucking shoe in order, bro. Stop get Katie Perry out of here and take care of this young man. He's a little preoccupied. He's got a fly business. No, like dude, he's fucking an astronaut. Give him some credit. That's it. No, like, you know, the people that work there, I don't blame them. I don't think it's anyone's individual fault, but it's pretty pretty lame. If we can turn back the clock a little bit, that's since first reaches out. We want to put you on the biggest brand roster on the planet. What are you like? Holy shit. I made it. Like it was cool. Yeah, but they bought us as a woman's collection for the first two years. I think um, is that surprising? That's woke. It's crazy. Like I would say a good portion of ourselves even to this day are still to woman and we still sell to some stores that only buy us as one. I mean, my background is unisex. Correct. Like my background is menswear. I'm not going to be disingenuous and say that I'm making like woman's tailor pants, bro. Yeah. But I do think that like, there's a certain shared sensibility between what I do and like what looks good on woman's stores. Like, I think it's a little bit softer menswear. Did getting stock at essence do like from exposure side of things that must have been kind of a big deal back then. Yeah. Yeah. The beginning when you get like $28,000 worth of like exposure. If you really had a break in that. No comment. It was cool. Like I think what happened around that time when I was still living in Philadelphia is like we had relaunched the brand as a direct consumer focus. So we were still doing wholesale, but obviously from the States, it was a little bit more difficult. And then our friend, Gianna Justice connected us with Chris Black and Chris wrote a story on me for air mail and that really kicked things off. And then Chris's wife at the time Alex was working at essence. And connected us with Ila Lynch who's there and they bought us as a woman's through that whole series. Nepo by. Yeah. I mean, like I think that's how they found out about us in the beginning. And that's why we were clashed into women's. But they were featured on the email publication. Sign up in box. It was crazy. Like the open rate on that. Yeah. I've never seen anything like it. Generational numbers on the open. It doesn't thank God. You can hit sample digits. Thank God you can put a spam. Yeah. Yeah. No. Thank God. So okay. So essence owes you money. Adam didn't do his job. No, Adam Adam is very good at his job. Not his fault. I mean, thank God you are able because there's got to be a lot of brands that wouldn't be able to take that type of hit. Right. So thank God, it kind of came at a time where you guys had transcended, I guess, like the startup brand. Yeah. Transcended newsletter featured in emails and shit. Was there ever a moment or decision? Maybe besides, why don't you regret selling essence? Oh, no, I don't regret it. I think like I wouldn't be in the position I was today without that exposure and that relationship and some of the people I met while working with essence are probably people that I hope will be in my career for the rest of my life. So yeah, it ended really poorly, but you know, I don't regret for least you're not Jacques Mobrot. They're owed three over three million dollars. Is that even number one? I feel like there's some other I think there's number one. What is you? Yeah. They can't take it. Well, the big ones like Balenciaga and Gucci were owed zero dollars. They were taking care of or it's almost like they were big enough where they were able to set the terms. Yeah, I think that was taking care of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay. Well besides, oh, did you ever, because even before this whole essence, yeah, Fiasco, I knew of some small brands or kind of been like the Carter Young, like, tier of like size and scope where they're like, yo, we don't fuck with essence because they do like kind of shady things that sounds like a lot of retailers do, but again, because they're so big, they were able to turn on like 50% off sale like while the US was asleep so that the Asia market could like, you know, go crazy and then like block their VPN and like the actual designers with designer couldn't see that they were on sale and things like that. I mean, thankfully, I have not experienced that level of espionage. Yeah, that is good at it. So you know, you know, frankly, I'm glad I don't know about it. What's that? I'm glad I don't know. Right. Yeah. Don't tell me. I don't want it. That's what I'm saying. Like, it's over now. It's over. It's done. It does. And we're so over. Yeah, it's just like, it's over. Yeah, don't feel S six feet in the ground. Was it ever a moment or decision like early in the brands timeline where you're like, fuck, that that almost sunk us. Yeah, all the time. Like what? Dude, everything. That's what your fuck ups. Yeah, like every in the beginning, like every sample that I made was like, if I don't sell three of this sample, like I'm out of business, right? You know, because that razor thing of a margin. I started this line when I was 21. Yeah. I didn't have any money. Yeah. I was using my savings to fund this and like, Adam started off as my fit model. And like, Maddie, my girlfriend is going to help me the whole way. And like, I've got a free creative direction work for it. Thank you. You know, like, you know, art direction and stuff the whole time. And like, I think without without that like community in the beginning, like, helping me out or like, believing in what I was doing, like, there's no way I would have been able to get to the point we are now. Like, stuff was expensive. Like it's expensive to make something, especially in the garment district. Yeah. Samples cost a lot of money, making a pattern cost a lot of money. Like, I think one thing goes wrong. What's like, I couldn't do tailoring in the beginning. So I just did not have money or the market to make it like the stuff that I'm most passionate about now. I just couldn't do. Yeah. I had to start with, I started with a denim jacket. That was like the thing I felt strongest about because, you know, it's such an archetypal Americana piece that like to be able to add something to the conversation of denim jackets felt really compelling. But if I could have done it my own way, I probably would have started with a suit. I mean, yes. So you launched while you were 20s at it in 21 like while you're Parsons. No, NYU. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you go to school for design? No. Do you think it is, do you think kids that are hoping to launch a brand should go to fashion school or design school or should just watch YouTube tutorials? I mean, it's a different world. Like, I think the problem is like now the way you monetize something isn't really from the thing itself anymore. Like a lot of it, as you guys know, is probably from like media promotion or other sales channels that come from like creating content around the thing that you're doing. So I would say that like in a traditional relationship to a fashion, you know, creative or designer, like you would study the thing, you would make the thing, you would sell the thing. But now starting a brand is so much more than just that. Like it's not just you can make really good product and it will get out there on its own merit. Like you have to play the game in the machine. If you could go back, what would you, what's something you would do differently than with that knowledge now? I mean, I don't know, like I think at the time I was like first starting to make loads, it was like 2016. I was 18, like I was just getting used to things. Yeah, I probably would have documented it better. Maybe like not put on a bit. No, it's not social media, necessarily. But like, yeah, just for my own like record and archive, because like a lot of those early days are probably the most interesting parts of the brand for a lot of people. Like how did you go from, you know, living in the midwest to like moving to New York and starting something? Like I think, well, that's what you're going podcasts. Yeah, that is true. Yeah, you have the medium and the message. Yeah, but obviously like, you know, you remember things you want to. No, true. You know what I mean? Yeah, rose colored glasses. Yeah, exactly. Do you feel okay? So besides like kind of, we want to talk about like the differential or the two sides of the same coin, where it's like the product, the clothing, and the business, and then also like the brand. Sure. Because they are so related, but kind of different. Once you have the product nailed, what is the most important thing on the brand side of things to really lock in? Oh, I think the narrative, like one of the best pieces of advice I ever got when I was like first starting to get into, you know, clothing design was I was working for Matthew Williams at a leaks. And it was like the end of my internship. And he's essentially like, what do you want to do in clothing? And I was like, I would like to start my own brand one day. He's like, I'm paraphrasing. He's like, the world doesn't need more stuff. Like if you're going to make something, you better have a reason or a narrative or something that you're adding to the conversation. Because otherwise just go design for someone else. Attentionality. Exactly. So like you can make a good product, but why not make a good product for someone else if you don't have anything new to say about it? There's actually a good advice. Yeah, there's no shame in that at all. I think it's great. Like to make a great pair of jeans, if it doesn't have your label in it, but it's only a pair of jeans, yeah, go do it for someone else. Like not everyone needs to start a brand. There's a lot of headache. He's like, are you Narciss? Yeah. Okay. Starting to shit. Do you think there's too many brands right now? Or are you in favor of, you know, or I think there's like, there's an argument to be said that there's this like thing happening where brands are getting ultra niche. Like I think the way the market works now is like, you become big for one thing. And then they want to see you repeat that. Right. You know, and people could argue it's great branding because it comes becomes a hallmark of the brand, but it's also like, I think it can be quite limiting for people. So I'd like to see a lot of younger startup brands try to expand their world view more than just repeat the same thing. But I don't I think there's always room for more because I think the market's always changing There's a lot of white spaces. I see in the market of like stuff that I would have done if I didn't have a brand now Yeah, the elite customer How often did he show his Matthew and show his cool head tattoo? I mean it's on his head. I don't know Was like was like, hey, what's up man? Yeah, just you know just right over here. What's going on? Yeah, like what you know one time I came in he was just sitting around and Share a cat doctor evil style. That's a cool head that was you could boss. Yeah, he was incredibly kind like My Maddie had had visited me in Italy when we were both out there and like He and his then wife and their kids like took us to dinner. I really took care of us. Is it a big small team big team? So when I was there it was in the slam jam headquarters. So it was like this was a mallon. Yeah, no it was in Ferrarra in like the small. Yeah, didn't you like working at church or some shit? It's not a church. No, I live near a castle. Oh, that's How do you know that you live near castle? I surf. I watch I'm filling the circle in the cab. So like I watch call me by your nose. Yeah, I started to like plow the field like he would let me you know hang out by the stove Fuck up the beach But no, it was it was um it was a team like some of the slam jam employees were there and there were about Five people that spoke English. So I remember like I got this like rash and I had to find a dermatologist And no one spoke English right a pantomime my way through. Oh, yeah, you didn't have an iPhone No, I had an iPhone, but like Translate like a cool like translator anything. I feel like in 2017 that wasn't as prevalent. Maybe hey, I'd type that Go to the fucking right for that, but okay. Yeah, well Real quick. So you talk about how like a Some it should be as simple as like study the thing make things sell the thing, but there's so much about like the brand side of it Do you ever feel pressure to play the fashion game more so than you already are like we're talking, you know present in Paris some others Dicks see product influencers get to design with the trend forecast as merchandisers or advising is gonna make the hot shit next season Or do you think that sick near guns is like what's gotten you this far and that's what you're gonna keep doing I think like a lot of what we What we have right now in abundance that maybe some other people don't you know It's like kind of a trifect of things you can have as a business like you can either have a lot of money You can have a lot of you know manpower resources or you can have a lot of like creative intention I'm just intense. I think we have like great creative intention in so much hustle with these guys Yeah, like we know a little money. We know exactly Where we want to take the brand what we want the brand to be where do you want to take it? I mean eventually it is biggest phase like we love to open a store We'd love to increase our you know made-to-measure tailoring program We would I mean eventually We you know we'd like to essentially be the place you go to when you think of just buying a nice pair of pants Like I don't want it to necessarily have to be a fashion purchase. I want it to just be Oh, that's a trusted label that I can go to to get things that I want in my word wearability Yeah, wearability real close for real people that give a shit Yes, London store New York store. Yeah Detroit store. That's it that's a debate in the office Who's winning? You know, we'll see what we can afford it sounds like it sounds like from other kind of like like my did brands It's like London is like the testing ground and like relatively cheaper before you like make the leap into New York Which is just insanely expensive. Yeah, I mean London is all wrong. It's a big There's a picture of Adam Friedland and Zoran together and Adam's white whatever. Oh really? Oh really credible Well throw that in the zoo board easy dude Fucking Adam cool picture. Yeah, cool Adam. Yeah, we need needs and then was Zoran wearing his New Yorker nowhere hat I don't remember but it's suit supply suit. He's wearing a suit. Yeah. Oh, it's funny like People say London is very expensive. It is expensive. It's a major city But on average, I would say it's like Maybe 20% cheaper than it is living here. Yeah, and I mean a lot of that has to do with like no tipping Produce is cheaper. Yeah, healthcare is cheaper like There are also it's a geography bigger say that you don't like people aren't living in fucking Yeah, you can spread out. Yeah, you can really spread out what okay, so seeing guys like Adam Friedland wearing your shirt especially his Lincoln, Zoran like that makes you feel good right when you see like Cool people or people respect wearing shit. Yeah, how does it make you feel when you see wack people wearing your shit? Yeah Because like we have this pain all the time, but we don't we don't have the perspective of a designer. Yeah, I mean What did Michael Jordan say or publicans buy sneakers too? That's a mindset. That's how I do what do you do when you get to the point where like and I don't think about this level Yeah, which is good. Yeah, I think but like at a certain point like you can't control the wearers or stuff Pan customers and it's almost like the toothpaste is out of the tube and it's like something that like you know Is that something to be embraced? I think that's a current debate that's happening right now. It's like should brands lean into a cringe customer I mean, it's I don't mean he's about the brand leaning into it. I think like if you want to buy it like it's for sale I think the difference is like When you create the the scaffolding of the world view around the product like that's where you have the opportunity to influence Who's interested in it? If you're making decisions that are true to what your brand's vision is I think the right people will come and if they don't then maybe look at what you're putting down from the top Maybe take a hard look in the mirror, but I mean It's truly two degree though because it's like you're big decisions and and Straturizing now for like further down the road correct Yeah, everything now is is laying the groundwork. I mean everything for the past couple years has been laying the groundwork for I think Any success that you might see now has been a long time with making have you ever like sacrificed a big shack or like a sure thing or lay up So for like this uh for the long term play yeah Tell him tell me right now. I can't if I said no, I can't talk about it. What? Like a like a wap made okay, whack-ass collab. It's a lot about like distribution choices, okay, you know like Making the product not making the product harder to get but making sure it's in the right doors that are really going to introduce it in the right way Sure So urban outfit is when they came in knocking you're like sorry boys. They don't are not good. Keth They don't deny to you, but all right you worked at Keth. Yeah. Yeah, we can uh please hear yourself out No kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding We respect Ronald and the empire that he's built we truly do yeah, he's collaborating with Stein and Oralee and some more favorite brands. What do you know? So is that where this debate came from? No, no, that's but it's like a kind of You know part of the ale it's like the ALD To make a big happening online right now There's one there's one screenshot from a sub-sac that one. They're gonna say where online Twitter X there's the every there's seven there's 17 people there's 17 people talking about it There's a viral tick-tock about the London ALD store and a girl talking about You know who can afford it? Yeah, and what that means for like that person a tech row in London or whatever and then it inspired a little bit Discourse that was talked about for 24 hours. I miss the this over now. It's all good. What a shame. What did he see While working a kid that surprise you and left an impression So when I was working there. I think it was 2015 or 2016. Okay, and I was working street wears Golden era. Yeah, it was sound loud era I came in the first day like I had braces and I was wearing a pair of boots joggers. Sorry. Were you wearing joggers? No, I tried to look you know really nice and uh, yeah, you know you weren't allowed to wear that You could wear supreme. No, you could have room. Do you have to wear kith? No, but you couldn't wear supreme wow, but I guess ALD wasn't really big back then. I also think Ronnie like was friends of tight. Yeah. Yeah I was yeah, no, I had braces until like senior year of high school. Damn. Were you ugly in high school? I don't think I was ugly when you get hot Oh The year I turned to pretty. What do you mean? I have a good personality which means way later. Yeah Okay, so you rolled so you rolled to kith and braces and not wearing supreme because they're not allowed to yeah And I was wearing like nice shoes and I remember Nick Nikanikone was like Do you wear those every day? What do you mean nice shoes? Yeah, was that way? I'm apparently like swayed boots like okay shoes that was I'm like I'm going to my first real like internship Sneakers or yeah, and he's like cool guy boots. Not anything from the tens. Yeah, it's probably like No, this was back when people were like the camel swayed Chelsea boot like oh the botega joints No, really? Okay, this is like the easiest tour You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, no, I know yeah, there's like Kanye APC. Yes Kanye. I actually yeah PC That's like a perfect distillation of what was going on Which now all the mood words like yo you guys remember like you don't remember this because this is ancient hits this short sleeve hoodie. Yeah Okay, that's crazy That was bad. Yeah, but when I was the $90 white tea. Yeah, that was crazy. Yeah, I was out of control with the skeletons or whatever on it Yeah, no, it was just a white tea. No, it was just it was oh, obviously there was a tall scoop tea, right? Uh, maybe a butt butt white tea I think it was like a stretch like almost boat neck Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I remember it was a crafty though, but this was a butt white tea era to be clear done it with the The baseball shirt. Oh, no, yeah, you curve them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so you're at fifth anyway With your braces and your cool menswear fit. Yeah, I was like really cool. I'm probably still way that fit Well, well, nearly made read it for the summer. You got clowns. Yeah, you're clown man on my first day What do you wear on day two? Sneakers. Yeah, yeah, but damn Presto They're fresh. What you spend a summer there? Yeah, what was like the biggest thing you left with or maybe what that's a prize you and left an impression on you there were quite a few things like Nick at the time like it was still in the back of a trim So it was spending time with like Thomas I can who is their head of special projects for years and then they shot Thomas. Yeah, really nice dudes. And like there was a designer there named Christian Frigaroa. And like he was the one who originally taught me how to use Illustrator. I was just spending time in all the departments because I was a intern. And like I spent a lot of time in the stockroom with like these guys Mac and Kadeem and like just seeing how a store ran like I didn't know anything. Right. They were telling me about what brands move. They were telling me about where they put it in the store and the positioning and Lucas at the time the store manager was like we put this here because this is where you know what draws people in and they have to walk past these merchandising merchandising exactly. And I also learned about range planning because it was when they were launching their first women's wear collection. So it was about like how you launch a new extension of a brand. Like they never done women's wear. So it was all about what does it mean for you know the Keith women's wear. Yeah, higher Emily Oberg. Yeah. Pretty Emily Oberg. Okay. I thought you okay she was the first creative director. So this was like no, yeah. I don't know for women. As I remember that. Still Ronnie was was still doing got your which is why we bring it. How did I bring the whole thing? Oh, you're good. So you learn everything from merchandising to inventory to design. Yeah, yeah. True statement without care. There's no car. I want to go. I want to go. That's okay. All right. I mean like yeah, a lot of those connections like like I mentioned with you know, Thomas and everyone like that helped me get my foot in the door. Yeah. But I think I would have still been down that pathway without okay. Did you ever use the employee discount? Ah, maybe. Yeah, I think I did. I think about what you call some Mercer pants. Yeah, you had fresh and some Mercer Trial. No, I bought there was this brand. It was called like older brother or something brother brother brother brother. Yeah, they were around back then. Yeah, for the other brother. I think they're from Detroit. No way. I think they are. That's crazy. I think they're one of these like like inspired by like American workwear, manufacturing and Michigan Detroit. Yeah, since I was born, I had the idea for Carter Yug, you know, it just it was. Came out the womb with a business with a range plan. Yeah, you're a denim focus. Right, what's your favorite kith treat? Since you're a child, you predate the treats then, no? Yeah, I remember when he was just bringing cereal in the store and I was like, what? What? Serial man was in his box, dude. Yeah, grown men buying sneakers for children. Why not give them food that's meant for kids that I had braces? Like, I fit right in. Target market. What was okay, what else was okay? Kith, a leeks urban. Yeah. Did you work anywhere else that like really formed the Carter Young man helmet laying for a little bit? And like, I've always had a love of old helmet laying like studied that stuff for a long time. And then when I was there, Alexander Polkov was still designing. That's right. Who's before New York ledge. Yeah, was before they brought in like the archive line. So I was still friends with some of the people who were working there. And when that happened, I got to like work on that a little bit, which was quite interesting. Read the reissue stuff, right? Yeah, the reissue stuff. Well, like, yeah, I would say that was pretty formative from another side of like seeing a large scale fashion business before I went to work for Matthew and Italy. Then I did a couple stints, other places, but that's pretty much like that's the resume. Yeah, I mean, everything else was just like a short you know, market. This is how it leaks urban pants. Carter Young. More or less. What a journey, dude. Yeah. What a fucking journey. I mean, there was a stint at the row and a stint at Lou Vuitton. What do you do? It's like a couple months. No. For real? Yeah. What were you doing there? I was there was this woman named Jade and I was her market assistant. So she was helping. She's your seeming close. No, it was more like photography. Oh, wow. Yeah, it was like she was photographing all of the looks every season in the showroom. And I was just her general assistant, but some of my best friends in New York, I met while working at that internship. As a young go-hard with amazing up and coming brand, what are your thoughts on like the road? Obviously, different price point, but like look at their men's stuff. A lot of basic essentials, some of the rude Americana. What are your thoughts on? I think it's beautiful. I think I think the creative direction is incredible. And I think like the product is really nice. I think it's like I wouldn't buy any of it. It's far too expensive for me. And like especially being someone that produces clothing. It's cool. I get it. Like you're paying for the brand vision. And if you can afford it, I think it's good stuff. But you're like, you're like, you're the market manager. It just doesn't connect. I was gonna say as someone that knows the cost of producing and selling. Like you look at a lot of brands. We don't have to name names once you want. And we're just like, like that shit is only cost, you know, three X, what it should because of like the brand and the tag attached to it. Besides the obvious, like high fashion houses, is that prevalent in today's world? Yeah, Maddie and Adam will tell you if I walk into a store, I can get pretty caddy. Oh, yeah. Like if I touch something and I'm like, this isn't what it should be or like, this is wrong, but I'm not gonna say that on air. Right. Like not the brands. No, no. But it is, but it is prevalent in like days, world, world. Like you are paying for the brand and the tag, not necessarily product itself. I think it's more than that. Like I think it is just about the degradation of like what consumers are willing to accept for their money. Like I think online shopping is really ruined people's abilities to judge like a nice founder or so. Not nice. Yeah, you can make anything look good online. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Most people do that. That's all they do. That's what we can't do. That's what we have. We have not figured it out yet. This is the best value. It looks like shit on it. Yeah, it looks like shit online. Great on it. So nice. I mean, honestly, like most of what it takes to win as a fashion business is how good you are figuring out your logistics and making and removing the friction between seeing something online in the purchase. Yeah, before they cancel you. Yeah. If you delivered to like delivered, delivered. I mean, no back. He's no back. Back window has expired. Like, you know, like getting your product out to people, you can have a great. The operations, the operations, like what Adam does is incredibly integral to what's made this business grow. But the art of hand feel is like lost on the generation of Gen G's. Gen G's. Gen G's. It's also fit. Like I think people look to things flat or they look at things on a model and they know one measurement on their body and they don't really think about the rest of them. And I think model is 7213 pounds and wears a size XM. Which is like very average. Like, that's the normal. Yeah, it's normal. But like for some reason, people get it wrong. Well, I do think a lot of brands designed for like the perfect fit model, not just like regular guys. Yeah, you can kind of tell like some brands have different fit models and like the average height of the average height that urban outfit or a shirt fit model was 510. Like that was the height. That's above average, right? And for actual demographics of Americans, right? I think I would say that's above average. But high fashion houses, it's usually like six one. Okay. With like, yeah, it's more a seven foot wingspan. Yeah. And it's also a waist 36 and 30 waist. You're hot. Wanting to make yourself the face of the brand? Yeah. What's yeah. Well, thank you. I've never heard that before. You've always been hot. You've always had a great person. Even with the braces. I it's not for me. Really? But like this is this. You talk about some press in the past doing this. Are you trying actively maybe as the brand grows to like get out there as more of like a guy? Not necessarily like I think, you know, I like talking to you guys and I think like you've known me for a lot of years. So I figured that when we were going to talk about something, it was going to be an interesting conversation and like, man, what do you think so far? What's your view? Let's do it. Okay. I think I mean, close the dose. Oh, shit. We forgot to hit record. Damn, we got to start. Oh, I was intentional. But I think like if this wasn't like video recorded, I probably feel comfortable. You got to pay for that. So don't worry about that. It's only a couple thousand people. What they found. Was there ever like talk between like you Adam Maddie about like, hey, like you should be. Because a lot of a lot of times out, it's the brand side of things, right? Where it's like, hey, the designer kind of has to be like the guy or the girl behind 100% and there was talk. Of course. The car to young business about and we're each like nah. Yeah. They're pretty much like, what about Adam? He's hot. Yeah. Adam is so hot. Yeah. Adam like, you know, it's our hot logistics guy. Yeah. Here's our hot hop. That's our story. Everyone. Everyone my ops are hot. Everyone who works at Carter Young is hot. Yeah. It's not a prerequisite. It's just how it works. It's just the universe. Even Julian. Julian. Yeah. He's hot. Julius. Yeah. What about Adam? No. Is it ever been? No, I'm saying that like, you know, Adam used to model for me. Right. But why do you make him like the face? I mean, the people that know he is. So what I'm saying, like people like sometimes there are buy-ers, she's stores. I work for you. It's kind of a cutie. I'll sweeten the deal. Adam eats me out. I'll pit out. I'll pit out Adam. I prefer to see it more as like, uniting houses. Oh, sure. Not so vulgar. Right. Moving from outside of the castle inside, if you're lucky. Yeah. Crossing the moat. Yeah. It's kind of like 1066, you know. I'm a student of history. Love Adam. Love Adam till your land. Yeah. But on some real shit, you have no interest in being like, I'm a guy out here. Certainly. I think that that's inevitable. It's endemic to what I chose. I named my brand after myself. Yeah, true. Yeah. There's no hiding from it. It's just like, I would rather people get interested in what I'm working on. And then if they come to find me later, that's fine. I don't want them to be interested in me. Yeah, I get it. Why sell the milk when you whatever the fucking cow for free or whatever? That's a dude. 100%. Yeah. I'm dairy free. And I'm lactose. Bitch. What's your favorite part of the job? I think that the coolest thing that we get to do is like hang out professionally. Like, you know, it's a reason to be in the room with people I find more interesting or more talented than me. And it's like, if there's something in culture that that we're interested in. We now have an avenue, like similar to you guys were. you get to be like, oh, let's intersect. Let's talk. Let's, you know, be around. So I think it's like, yeah, having a reason to be with these people is the best part. The jobs to gateway, the vessel. 100%. We always say that like, fashion as a creative medium is really tied to an economic engine. More so than like, you know, being a fine artist or being a musician where you can put on an album when you're ready for it or you can, you know, put an art show when you're ready. Like every six months, I have to deliver a new collection. Yeah. It's like, I don't know fine art, maybe. No, I mean, I just mean the essential stuff. I mean, like a regimented. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Okay. It is structured. They're the calendar. Correct. Yeah. I mean, I know what you mean, fine art, money laundering. But like, we always say that we're trying to build it somewhere. Is the is the economic engine that allows us to like support people that we find more creative and more interesting, but maybe don't have the instinct to like create something of their own. And like, that is the best part of the job. 100%. What's the worst part of the job? Taxes. Yeah. Like, is that really why you moved to the UK? No, pay tax in two countries. Oh, you fucking idiot. Move back. Yeah. No, we're going over there. I'm going somewhere else. Yeah. What are you doing? Yeah. Go design in Switzerland like Demna. I don't think that's going to be any better. I think those taxes are like insanely high. Oh, fuck you're right. Yeah, but you can. Where has no taxes? Right. Uh, uh, uh, Crony on turkeys. Yeah, came in islands. Yeah, there you go. Okay. I'm like that. Um, beachwear. Yeah. Yeah. What's more? Yeah. We talked about the main measure a little bit. How did it come about that you designed George XC X's wedding suit? So, um, I would say like about three years ago, Maddie was doing research and she noticed that the 1975 on their last tour, we're wearing a ton of like, I guess really start to really influence outfits. And she looked into the creative director. And it's this woman Patricia Villarillo who is an incredible creative director and stylist. And, and Maddie's like, you know, you should really reach out to her and see if she wants to do something because at the time I was trying to move more into tailoring. So about three, two and a half years ago, we met here in New York at the Mercer Hotel. We just kind of had like fucking Kanye and Jay Z. Yeah. Yeah. Your own walks to throne. That's pretty much what it was, but I wasn't going to say whenever you guys feel like the suit. Yeah. We kind of had like a general meeting where it's like, I'd love to work with you on something, but wasn't really sure what it was going to be. And then over the next two years, we've worked on various projects and like, you know, she gave me the opportunity to do some custom tailoring for the band and then for a night time. Yeah. We dressed them at their glass in very tiny set. And then when it came time for George's wedding, like, you know, she, she was like, do you want to make something custom? And we collaborated and worked on it for about eight months together with Patty and George. And then, um, it's like dialing the fit and the details like what it, what takes eight months. Yeah. So essentially, his touring schedule was really tough. So I fit him once. We got some fit suits made. And it was refitting those, finding the fabrics he liked. So we did a second fitting with some new samples and then a third fitting. But it just happened to be spread out with any special details to his suit besides finding the exact fabric that he wanted. Yeah. I mean, the fabric is kind of what led to the drape saying, but we did two suits. So the, the six by one double breasted that we did is actually a similar archetype to what we did for our collaboration tuxedo and then put your collaboration with Patricia. Yeah. And then the single breasted suit is based on our kind of relaxed single breasted fit. And we had the house cut. The house widening and getting invited to the wedding. Must have been lost in the royal male, you know, yeah, totally dude. Yeah. Do you think that the next morning the suit did the suit survive the night or was it like, you know, thrash covered in cigarette burns? You know, from all the pictures I see and he wore it including the jacket all night. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great. That's a good, that's a good, that's a good, so comfortable. Right. Of course. You also did, so well. You also did a custom suit for the homie Conrad K, the co-creator of industry. Yeah. Right for the baff does is that right? I believe you wore it there, but I think we just made it in generally. How did you go? Conrad was one of our first customers. Wow. That's a taste. Yeah. When I was still living in Philadelphia. And we were still designing pants for urban. No, still designing pants for urban operators. And I think when we moved to the UK, Adam was kind of like looking up our customers to see if anyone was based in London, just to let them know that we were out there. And he saw Conrad. And he's like, oh, we got money. Yeah, we're close to each other. We should hit him up. Did you know who he was? Or just like, oh, the UK customer. UK customer. Oh, wow. Yeah, he at the time. I mean, we then looked him up after and we were like, oh, she wears. Yeah. He's not for twice. Do we have time? I created the best show of the past decade. Two and a half times. Yes. We had, we had, we had, we had, we had, we had Mick and Con on twice. And then one time, Con was in New York just by himself. So we did kind of like a Friday, if you ask we call it, just like a paywall 30, 45 minute episode. Yeah. Yeah. Chill. Hang between seasons. And it was like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did an incredible friend like, it's been great to get to like know him as he's working on the last season. Like seems intense. Yeah. Great show. Can you give us spoilers? No. So we talked about how like the, the main to measure shooting is like a pretty thing you guys are dialing in on. But you also have this collaboration capsule with Patricia Villa Rillo. Is that how you say it? Yeah. Villa Rillo. You pronounce everything. We call her Patty. Patty. How is this like another kind of like revenue stream and just like long-term creative partnership when you link up with styles and image makers? Honestly, like this, this collaboration happens super organic. Like I mentioned, like Maddie was the one who originally got interested in her work and you know, tipped her off or tipped me off to like what she was working on. And then as we started working together, we found out we had all these shared references, reference points in common. And obviously from her perspective, she's dressing some of the biggest bands in the world in, you know, tailoring. And I'm also just looking for, for suits for people's, you know, occasions, references, you know, helping people, you know, get dressed. And so we're both out there looking for tuxedos and we can't find what we're looking for. Like her from brands and then me from vintage or like what's on the market on a consumer level. And that's kind of how we started talking about like we obviously dressed some of the most interesting like, you know, rock bands in the world. Like what if we made every guy feel the same way? Like these bands. So we came up with what we thought was like the perfect tuxedo and the perfect fabric and the perfect fit and it took two and a half years to dial in and then engineer the pricing so that it's a reasonable open price point. Is it around the same like 1200? Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. It's around there at 1200 pounds. Right, right. That's what it said. Clarify. And then Sterling. And then that includes the made-to-measure price. Right. And then figuring out how to do made-to-measure logistics. Like, well, it sounds more business off side of the business. Like I do think that's part of the creative partnership was like not only making the product, but then figuring out how people were going to get the product, how does it work. So essentially if you're in London, you come into the studio and you get measured. If you're in New York, we send you to a tailor that you know, we trust. And if you're anywhere else, yeah, exactly never say we do a virtual consultation, we show you how to measure yourself and talk you through what you want. It's a crazy value prop because then not to you know, prevent anyone from owning multiple tuxedos. It's really despite being closed forces. You know, that's you only need one. Yeah. If assuming, you know, your body stays relatively same. That's like you're good forever. Right. And aesthetically, which is like, so what you're offering is that's kind of crazy. Well, I think it's your losing money, bro. Yeah. I'm losing money. Come down to crazy. Crazy carters. Everything must go. I think that's like in the most like grandiose version of what I'm trying to offer. It's like a new relationship between producer and consumer where you feel that when you buy something, you're not getting ripped off. Like in modern life, I feel like I'm getting ripped off all the time. You are. It's a cruising altitude of existence. Exactly. And I'm like, I'm pretty sick of it. So as someone who's producing things like it's kind of, I guess my right to be able to say, maybe we'll cut our margins a little bit if we can make something that's actually a more fair product. I'm not saying it's too. If that's a driving philosophy of the brand, does that mean that you're you're kind of like limiting the growth? I wouldn't say I'm limiting the growth necessarily. I'm limiting like perhaps investor interest or like margin on paper. But I think actually it's inhibiting, I mean, uh, uh, uh, exacerbating growth. Like I think, have you ever had to turn on an investor bag because they were like, we need you to grow 10x quarter of a quarter. For different reasons, but yeah, I've turned something down. It was like, Saudi money. Yo, come, come be a teller to, in Riyadh, you missed my show at Riyadh. Yeah, right. You crossed it, dude. Yeah, Riyadh fashion was big. Yeah, shout out to my friend, Rod, Elton, Rill. Yeah, could get a could get front row season next Riyadh show. Yeah, we'll be there with the L's on, dude. I don't care. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, it depends. You get to do the Riyadh comedy week. Make the, uh, the rap shirts, but it'll be actual journal's blood, you know. That's crazy. All right. Okay. That's a joke. Uh, what were you talking about? Yeah, you just specified. Yeah. Just doing tuxedos. In this collaboration, we're doing the, the two piece tuxedo. So jacket and pair of trousers, a double pleated trouser. And we took one of Patty's, uh, vintage t-shirts and recreated it like perfectly, including rips at the shoulders and like the best wash. And so you're meant to wear the tuxedo with a beat up t-shirt. Oh, hi, love rock star shit. As you said, that's what I'm saying. Are you seeing like, um, these like brand and then call them style, it's called them credit directors, uh, image makers like where it feels like it's maybe a burgeoning like, like partnership because it is not, you're not working necessarily with the celebrity, but you're working with the person that like, yeah, created the celebs image. We have an incredible like network of stylists that we work with who are really talented at creating the world. Like, you know, people talk about celebrity. It's kind of the front line of like, you know, modern, you know, coffee shop culture of like talking about which is like the one piece of monoculture we have left. But it's famous folk. Yeah, you said they work with like, you know, Patricia, we work with like Michael Fisher, Felicity Kay, Rose Ford, kids Juan, like is incredible list of talents. And like they're shaping the visual culture of these celebrities' wardrobes, which in turn trickles down to like when people come in and get a suit, they're showing me pictures of their favorite celebrity. So yeah, I'd consider it like, I don't know if it's a new frontier. Like I think these relationships existed a lot more in the past as well. But I think it's an interesting one. Yeah. You like it when guys come in and like, hey, I want to look like Jacobal Ortean. You're like, I can maybe help you get there, but like, I got kind of fucking hit the gym, bro. I mean, it's like, I think when guys come in and they say that it's often not because they want to look like Jacobal Ortean's body type, but it's because they don't understand what about what he's wearing. They're interested in. So bearing that out of like figuring out, is it the lapel that you're interested in? And then like making them feel good is actually, bro, you're kind of fucking ugly. I hate to break you, but you gotta work with what God gave you. No, I can work with anything. Oh, he is God. Yeah, right? Shit. No, I think like anyone can like bring a suit if it fits right. That's so true. That is facts. But if it doesn't fit right, I mean, I can help you're gonna look even worse. You're already ugly in this scenario. You're gonna hit the way you look. I guarantee you. Yeah. Who's your dream collaborative partner? Besides Patricia, Patty. Yeah, I think, I mean, there's a lot of things I'd like to do in terms of collaborations. Like, there's things in the fashion world that would be interesting. There's things in the art world. There's like literary things that'd be interested in. I think like a chiefer state. Yeah, yeah, I think exactly. I do think that those types of things would be quite interesting, but I guess like on a large scale, probably someone that could affect or get my work into the hands of a lot more people. So maybe like urban offenders. Maybe like a Levi's or a gap. Oh sure. Leo, if you're listening. Yeah. Yeah. I think like Calvin, if you're listening, eventually those are those are places that I'd really love to try my hand. Because you haven't done a lot of collapse, right? Yeah. There's the footwear. Yeah, we've done a few footwear. Right. So when you were talking about these like dream partners, is it just like James and I debate a lot about what makes a good collab? And I don't think it's like rocket science or anything, but how do you approach collaboration? I think like there are two general like ways to approach a collaboration in my mind. One is like, if you're trying to enter a new product category, you can test that product category. You're doing a collaboration. And if like you don't know the expertise operations like do footwear example, like if someone does it the best, just go to them. Sure. And the other one is like a world. Matthew Langson that. How do you mean? He's like, why design your own design the jeans for them? Yeah, crazy. I don't know. And then he went like this. I never heard that. Yeah. I don't know about it. And it's on God. So entering entering a new product category. Yeah. Entering a new product category or like a world building thing like outside of your traditional domain, trying to get a new audience. And so like, I think when I'm approaching a collaboration, it's like, all right, what am I not good at doing historically or what have I never done before? I'll seek someone out who's an expert in that field or it's like, what musician would be amazing to like work with and dress like? Carly Young Fortnite coming soon. Yeah. Incredible. That'd be a bag or well. I'd love to. I'd love to. I'd love to know. I'd like to pay more real cash in a week or four at night. Carly Young formerly former former former Prince Andrew coming soon. Yeah. Three week. I don't think I can handle that. That's great. Would you ever dress a prince? Yeah. Sure. How many how many princes are there left? There's probably a lot. Saudi Arabia. A shitload. Yeah. Damn. Well, well, well, it will qualify as a prince. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. You're a prince in my eyes. Yeah. You're a king. Don't worry about it. King Carter. Why don't you just drop some logo shits and cardio and logo shits? Just cash in though. I never thought about that. Come on. Really? That's crazy. Come on. Come on. CYA. So you. Yeah. I just like, you know, you got to like how you look at it. You know, you got to like how you win. I just don't think I like products like that. Was that another, has that ever been a conversation in the Cargong offices where it eventually got shut down, but like it was. I made a logo of sweatshirt when I was like 20. There's like three of them. Yeah. Rare. Yeah. So if you find one. Didn't the court does a quarter zip have a little had a little bread? Yeah. It did have a little burger, but it's like tasteful. I wear that. I love that. Thanks. Yeah. I think like I'm not a post of branding hits. It's just like. It's just not what I'm into right now. Maybe I'll just look at hatches and some hats. Just some Carter hats. I buy hats for sure. Thanks guys. Yeah. Good to know. That's about it. If we can collab. If we've never done hats before, but we'll collab. If I'm selling a hat, then you know, I need the money. Really? You're a hat. You're not a hat guy. You have a beautiful haircut. Thank you. I'd work on a hat. I just mean in the sense of like if I if I'm selling logo hats, you know, if I could have a reason, like we made hats last season out of a soothing fabric and I thought it was interesting. That's cool. If it's ever just like a cop out like. Do you think if you dropped logo shit, it would sell? I really don't know. Maybe that's your thing, right? It might not. Yeah. You guys have you'd buy it. So yeah, I'm sure that would help. What a, okay, besides your own business. Yeah. What do you like to spend your money on? Oh, I really love nice experiences. Like what do you talk about? I love a massage. Like in Chris. Self-care. Yeah. Or like a Maddie and I were in Budapest maybe like two years ago in the thermal baths there. I spent like all day. So it's kind of like health and wellness stuff. See me meanly. I guess, but like we all have to like. We're sick of the time apparently. Oh, I've sick all the time. I don't know. Yeah, I need more health and wellness. Yeah, I like to spend my money on like, I like cologne's too. Oh, yeah. What's the scent? Do your right now, Fritzon. I'm wearing something called Virtuous by I okay. Okay. It's brand I just found. I'll sniff you on the way out. Nice. I okay. Yeah. Is it British? I don't know. I don't know anything about it. Virtuous. It's just shop. It's okay. Yeah. Trying to find something new. How do you shop? When you are shopping, yeah, your solvages is that R&D, Oppo research. Like how do you shop? Because you said you could be a little caddy. Let's dig into that a little bit. Yeah, I love touching products. Like I think like there's a product-driven person. Like I love to just see what's out there. Like if I don't know what other people are selling, I don't know what the base level standard is. Or like I don't know what I can improve on. Like if you don't see everything out there, you're in a vacuum. Like you know, you might make something that someone else is already selling better than you. And then what are you? What's the point? What's some shit that you've seen and touched that you're like that you even as a designer like you're like, oh, that's even aspirational for like me. Where are some brands that are doing it right? They aren't ripping people off like we talked about before. I think like the best shirt in the market right now at like price point included. Like everything is Kameezas Manolo. Okay. Manuel. Like I think the fabric he chooses in the finishing like the hand is just incredible. I mean the guys at Spachiala are amazing. Cecille Tolkien's I don't know if you've touched her knitwear, but it's like a cut above. She's like phenomenal. So you'll get flowers. You're not going to be like, oh, this shit is ass, right? Like you know, there's great stuff out there. And there's great stuff from like mass market brands too. Like if I walked into Unicone, I touch a pair of denim and it's great. Like you know, it's equal opportunity. Yeah. And then it's completely merit based. And then are you like inspired to go like, yo, we got to we got to up our Nitz game or you know what? Like I got orders that like we got to retain our, you know, positioning because this is like what's working and at this price point in this up this production cost and everything. If I don't think I'm selling a good product, I'm not going to bring it back. Like if I if I had made it and liked it and then thinking I can do better that I'm going to try and do those hats made a shooting fabric or dead. No, they did pretty well. It's just yeah. Yeah. It's just I don't know. I got to the next season. I didn't I didn't think the shooting fabrics I had worked for it. Right. I just didn't want to force it. What do you have sent your virtuous? What do you have coming up for Carter Young that you're excited about? We got a product. What quite a big suite of things going into the new year. Like I do think that the Tuxedo's are the things I'm most excited about right now. I think it's an incredible product in a really novel way of buying into custom shooting. Like our tailoring suite for next year is going to be incredible. We are doing actually knitwear with Cecil Tolkien. Oh nice. So I can't beat them. Join them. Yeah. Like Matthew. I found the person that made the the best the best knits that you know I've touched and I asked her if she'd be willing to work with us. So for spring 26 we have this caught in cable knit polo and this linen like loose thermal woven v-neck and tasty both made in Italy. Incredible. And then our new ties. I think her really I feel those that's a I just think that's pretty cool really cool. It's stock. It feels like you I don't know if I'm going to say this correctly because I'm not a designer but it feels like the like you're bringing a lot of technique into skews and products that wouldn't normally have those techniques and materials featured. Is that fair to say? Sure. Yeah I guess. Like you showed us the ties and it's like oh yeah you would never expect this. This was actually meant for something else but to see it as a tie it actually makes it fucking awesome and unique. I wouldn't necessarily say it's like the goal is novelty in itself like it's everything I'm trying to do it. Engine hood. I don't I don't think I'm trying to be like transgressive. I think the point is how can I be make something interesting and unique like I don't just want to be weird for the sake of being weird. I don't want to be weird because I think it's a better you know move forward on something. Right. I mean like the denim shirt I have is like a yellow denim. Yeah. Where I'm like I was drawn I personally was drawn to that because I have whatever old wrangler denim shirts but I want this like weird sand. yellow wash, give me the piss. You get that fucking piss, baby. It's on me Carter. I think there's an official Rick Owens color. Really? Yeah, that sounds like such a rich thing for you. Yeah. Come. So I can't take you to another. Right. All right. What is the actual color way for that, your piss yellow? What do you call it? We call it the Larkin wash, which is Maddie sister's name. Okay. So I named it after her. Okay. Yeah. Big pisser. Chill. The biggest. I'm not going there. What's the dumbest purchase you made recently with your harder cash? Sterling. Oh, I make some dumb purchases. I'm like an impulse shopper. Thanks for clothes. Not really for clothing for what? More just like if there's like a new candy or something. Well, what's the latest candy? Yeah, what candy are dropping? Put us on. I just bought something at Sunrise Mart. Yeah. Yeah. And so how was it? I don't know what it was. It was like a, it's a Japanese. Yeah, but what language is on the label? It's like Pan Asian. Like you could have been in Korea. Okay. I'm not really. What was the flavor? Some sort of bean. Like it wasn't red bean or black bean. Okay. It was a new bean. Green. Something you've never. I mean, it's off a new bean. Green bean, black bean, pinto bean. What it tastes like? Piss bean. What bean did it? It was pretty mild. It wasn't amazing. A mild bean. Are you sure it was a candy and not just a bean? You know, it was like a bean. Yeah, I'm so British now. Yeah. Well, that's good. You fuck with beans for breakfast? Beans are cool. I love. They're so good. You guys like it. Like Jackie A potato with tuna and cheese and beans. Oh, the spot bros. Yeah. No, no, not tuna. That's for me. Tuna is really big. Really? Yeah. Have you got the spot bros? No. It's like a food truck, right? Or what? I just know that it goes viral. They have it everywhere. Oh, there's one here. Wait, really? I don't know if it's like a filly with these guys, but I think it's called the spot bros. Okay. No, I'm saying like in the UK, like any kind of cafe. Oh, we could just get that. What's your favorite, like kind of gross, maybe not late night, like drunken stuff, but just like I'm feeling a bit naughty. Let me get a curry. Crabob, what are you feeling? Okay. Chinese restaurants in London. Let's talk about it. Have this thing called curry sauce. Yeah. It's not Chinese. No, but it's fucking incredible. It's like the Irish fries, like the spice bag. Yeah. It's very similar. And you put on some chips. Yeah, you get chips with Chinese food. Yeah. And you get curry sauce. It's fucking incredible. There's a Chinese restaurant in Scotland that is the Chinese restaurant. It's like a restaurant in London. Oh, bro, you're missing out. I know. Twitter. You're also missing out. Okay. I was on Twitter and it made me really sad. Yeah. Yeah. But I got off the app. But it's racist. It feels violent. It feels violent. It feels violent. It feels violent. You don't want to see drones flying into Russian soldiers. And then it's just like e-girl porn. And then you scroll in and some like misinformation. You scroll in and some like misinformation. You scroll in and some like a foot-eclip. They are saying nice things. Maybe they were saying mean things and never touched it. They were saying mean things and never touched it. I didn't really understand that when I was like put a selfie and it's just me in a suit wearing a pair of sunglasses because it's kind of how I dress. Everyone in the comments like the dare if he was actually British. Everyone in the comments like the truth. Everyone in the comments like the truth.