The BYU Bandit: Part 2

The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a left one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-720-334-Support. Happy Date and Detectives Monday. We're back. We're back with Part Two. Part Duo. Part Duo of the BYU Bandit. Is that what it is to Part Two? Is that what it called it? Part in French. couch and I was turned facing her and she had jumped on top of me and started slamming my head against the arm of the couch by my neck. -Oh my god. -Had him down. And I never, ever, ever did anything wrong in those situations. And I knew that in the moment that I was just catching her in her lies. And it always involved this other girl. It always involved her hiding it but not well because there were so many people who were looking out for me who were like, "Hey girl, I was getting like a hakerly text pretty much every day from people being like, "Are you still with her?" Because she's acting like this. And so those things would come up and then she just get upset. And there was one night, I genuinely do not remember what the fight was about. But she chased me out of my apartment. It was nighttime. And there was a field behind my apartment and she was on top of me. And it's crazy to be in that position with somebody. Because when survivors say that they don't recognize the person anymore, like their eyes go black, I can verify that that's absolutely true. And it's a wild thing to see. Because this person that you have kissed and been physical with and very soft and vulnerable ways is turning around and doing this to you. And I almost passed out. Like, she definitely did that on a few occasions where I almost. Oh god. You know, she could have killed me in those moments quite literally. But her face would just go completely blank. And she would be so angry at me and she was just telling me to shut up. She was like, "Shut up, shut up, shut up." While she's on top of me. And I could not get her off. Like, she really didn't weigh that much. So I think I was just feeling weak. And in a, like, a freeze mode, maybe. Yeah. And so I couldn't get her off of me. But eventually she did stop. And she just starts bawling. And anytime something like that would happen to, it would end up with me comforting her. Yep. Because they say, "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm such a bad person. I'm such an awful person. You should hate me." And then, all of a sudden, you're like, "No, it's okay." Yeah. Like, I was holding her. Because in my mind, I was like, this person is so damaged. This isn't about me at all. This person is obviously very hurt and needs help. And I want to be there for them. So even then, I was still like, I need to be there for this person. Okay, so fun anecdote. When I was in college, I got a credit card. Because I was like, well, I want a credit card. And then I was like, this is fun. And I was just buying a bunch of stuff. And then the bill came. And I was like, yeah, I can't afford to pay that. That's where my money story started. And ever since then, my financial situation, I've had to learn a lot about. But Monarch has helped me write, or should I say re-write the part that finances play in my life. So now I understand more about monitoring what's coming in and out of my bank accounts. And how I can more positively impact my life with a more responsible relationship with money. 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Because she also was mentioning somebody that we kind of knew and was trying to sell them my guitar. She was like, would you sell your guitar for this much? And I was like, bitch, why are you trying to sell my stuff? What are you doing? Give me bizarre. Oh my gosh. So I come home. I see that. And then I'm like, oh my god, why would you do this to me? And I called one of my friends to come over to kind of be a buffer. And Riley comes over and I guess feels really called out by the moment. And I was like, why did you do this? Like, what is going on here? And she didn't really have an answer for me, but she tried to push me down the stairs of my apartment complex in front of my friend. Like she was using her body to push me over there. And my friend is really tall and big. And she was like, I don't think you want to do that. That's all she said. She was like, I think you want to go. Yeah. And then Riley was like, at first she tried to blame it on me. She was like, don't you see how she's antagonizing me? I'm like, my friend is not going to take your side girl. So she was basically spiraling out at that point. And she fled the scene. There were also cases where she would have my credit card. Again, I don't know how she convinced me to let her do that. But I had to cancel my credit cards multiple times because she wouldn't give them back. And there was one time I locked my door. I took my key back from her and I went to go to my friend's place to just kind of cool off for a little bit. And I had her blocked because I was trying to cut her off for good. It's really hard to weave people like that as we know. And I had her blocked. She started blowing up all of my friend's phones. Started calling all of them, texting all of them. And was like, the cops are here. If Courtney doesn't get here right now, the cops are going to, they're here. I already told them everything that I did. They're going to take me away. Like I just want to say goodbye to you. And I'm like, wait, everything that she did, like attack. That's not real. She was saying that she admitted everything to the cops because she felt so bad and so guilty and that they were going to take her away. But they were allowing her to wait for me so that we could talk to each other. No, so my friends are like, that's not happening. And so we pulled up like a block away. Shocker, there were no cops there. She was just hanging out. She lied several times about the cops being at my place as well to get me to come back home. She would just be outside or she was like going into your place. Sometimes she would be outside. Toward the end, I got brave enough to lock her out. I was always scared of the way she would react if I cut her off. If I blocked her, if I locked her out, I figured it was just easier and more simple for me to allow her to do those things so that it wouldn't cause a fight. So I was just trying to avoid contention. So then some time passes and my friends are like, we've got to get you out of this. You know, like you can't stay with this person. So this was toward the end of the summer. Taylor had come back into town and Riley said to me, Taylor's coming back into town and she's probably going to convince me to be together again. I'm going to block you, but I still want to be with you. Please wait for me. No, and how did you feel hearing that? I said, that's really crazy to ask of me. What do you mean? She's coming back into town and you can't control yourself. That's crazy. And she just goes, I know it's really wrong for me to ask that of you and I don't expect you to wait for me, but I would really love it if you did. And so I let her block me and this was like September. And Taylor and Riley were hanging out at the Queer Resource Center. I was going to take all of Riley's stuff back to the center and then I saw that they were together in there and that kind of confirmed it for me and I got really upset. So I just dropped her stuff off at the door and then me and my friends went back to their apartment. Taylor texts my old roommate, her ex, and says if Courtney has anything else she needs to leave for Riley, she can put it in my hands. So she's being kind of combative with me and thinking that I'm over here trying to break up her relationship with Riley. And so I said, okay, all right, let's go back to the center then. So I was a little hyped up because I don't think anybody would respond well to that. So I went back, I started banging on the door. They opened the door. open it, I walk in and I point it Riley and I say, you owe me an apology. And then Taylor gets in my face and she pushes me up against the wall. There's like a big window on the front of the center. This is so dramatic that it's happening at the center too. Taylor like slams her hand on the window right next to my face. And then she gets really, really up in my face and I just go, this is not between you and me. This is between me and Riley. Please let us have a conversation. And then Riley is coming over at the same time yelling at me. And then I say at one point, what about you saying you wanted me to wait for you? What about that? And she feels really attacked and she goes, I never said that you're a liar. And then both of them grabbed me because I was wearing a hoodie. They grabbed me by my hoodie and they literally dragged me out into the street. Like they were trying to push me out of the center and they ended up grabbing me and choking me with my hoodie. And they didn't like hit me or anything, but they were dragging me outside together. And then I was just bawling because I'm so confused, right? Like I don't know what's happening right now. Like where do we stand? Why would you lie? And she's calling me a liar to my face. And I'm like, I didn't lie. You told me to wait for you. You had me blocked because you said she was going to convince you to be together. And then Taylor standing there putting two and two together. And it's like, did you say that to her? And of course she's denying it, but Taylor knows how Riley is by this point. And you can tell that she's doubting it. My friends had been waiting right around the corner. So we're like yelling at each other in the street. And there are apartments above the queer center. Somebody had called the cops because they heard a scuffle. And so I take off with my friends basically, I'm like, if this were out. And one of my friends shout out to her. She goes back all by herself into the center. And she points at Riley and she goes, you ever touch her again? I'll kill you. And then she bounces. And I was like, yeah, my friends, he did hurt by that point. So the cops catch up with us somehow. I'm, yeah, very dramatic night. Riley and Taylor stay in the center. I guess the cops talked to them and then they told them that there was no issue or blamed me. He said that I came in and I was swinging and whatever story they wanted to tell. Oh, so the cops catch up with me on a corner with my friends. And they said something homophobic. Like, it's a real shame that your community is preaching love and acceptance. But clearly, your community doesn't value this that much. And I was like, okay, so you're not a safe place. I can go to about this. So nothing was reported to the cops because they just simply didn't care. They didn't see it as valid either because it was. I feel like they would. Yeah, a queer thing. And also a lot of women, it's like, oh, there's cat fight. Like, oh, they're not really exactly. It's not serious enough because it's not a man. So that was a little disheartening. But at that point, I just wanted to be done with it because I was like, okay, you've made it clear where you stand. Things did not need to reach that point. But here we are. Were you feeling like you were going through a break up to like you're in love with this person still? Like, I feel like we're getting a lot of the moments that are really tough and dramatic. But like, you obviously still had moments of closeness with this person on and off at that point. So like, how are you juggling the fact that you just had a serious altercation and also your friends hate her. And you're like, but I am in love still. I'm going through a break up. So, yeah, that's that's a really good question because sometimes it's hard once you've had so much distance from that person in the situation. You forget what it was that are initially drew you in. But I really think she was just consistent enough about keeping me on the hook and breadcrumbing me that I genuinely felt like there was potential for a real relationship there still. Yeah. And I felt like I felt like I was just in the waiting room for her. Basically, like, I felt like that's a good way to start with her. Yeah. Like I was just waiting my turn, figure herself out. Yes. Because again, she was painting it as this as Taylor was literally manipulating her or doing some mind control over her when she would come back into town. So I was still blaming Taylor because I didn't want to accept that Riley just didn't want to be with me and just wanted to use me. And then when she would physically abuse you, you were able to say she's so damaged. Yeah. This is a hurt like hurt people hurt people. Yeah. So I feel for her. Yeah. Yes. It all makes sense. Yeah. All too common. I fear unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. When was the last time you and your partner spiced things up in the bedroom? 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Get Arya with a Y, get ArYA.com/datingdetectives for $10 off your first month. That's GetArya.com/datingdetectives. The next day though, I decided it was another attempt to cut off the relationship. I posted on Twitter about everything and said, this is your leader that you guys have been looking up to. This is how she acts behind closed doors. And it kind of blew up on X-Mormon Twitter in Utah and Idaho. And people started commenting their own stories that they had had with her. Like her ex was team out of nowhere. And we're reaching out to me and we're like, hey, she did the same thing to me. She was abusive to me too. She would control whether we smoked or drank. Like I was not allowed to smoke or drink. Also, Mormon coded dating her. So I got overwhelming support from everyone about that. But then I had her blocked because I was going to be done with it and wipe my hands. She started reaching out to my friends again. And I have all of the text messages of her being like, tell Courtney to meet me at the park. And I just want to talk. I'm leaving town. And she doesn't have to worry about me anymore. I just want to have a final chat. Eventually, she wore me down enough to meet up with her at the park. And she tells me that I ruined her life and she's suicidal. And that I shouldn't have posted that and that all of her exes are now going to use it as an excuse to lie about her and say that my story is their own. And this is all with the narrative controlling the narrative. Yeah. Within 24 hours, she had convinced me to write a statement reversing everything, retracting what I said. So saying like you had lied, essentially? Yeah. Because she told me that because she was the face of the queer center, because that's still going on. She's still collecting money for the queer center. It's still supposed to open in January. She told me that if I continued to ruin her reputation, that the center would never happen. And that she just wanted to make sure it opened. And then she would leave town. And she would get out of my hair, basically, if I just saved her reputation. So it would be your fault if they don't raise enough money. It would be my fault if the center didn't open. So that was the main reason. It wasn't even a motivation to want to be with her at that point. It was just I felt like I was the reason that gay people weren't getting resources. Like it's all your fault. Yeah. So I was like, well, I don't want that to happen. If all. All I need to do is follow on the sword online, then I'll do it. I'll be canceled to take it back. So I did. And then people started sending me death threats and saying that I was an all my person. - Oh my God. - Yeah, that was really disappointing too, because it was people from the queer community who were like actual real victims are out there suffering and you're over here lying for attention. And they were just really mean. So that was a big mess. And then in November of 2020, election time, my mom cut off my phone because my family is very conservative and we were getting in a lot of political arguments and we share a family plan. So my mom cut me off of the family plan and I was like, okay, well, what are we doing for Thanksgiving? And Riley, it was like, let's go visit my family. So after all of this has happened, I'm still canceled online. We go to her family in Colorado and spend Thanksgiving with them. - Your canceled online canceled from your family. - Yeah. - Probably feel like very vulnerable. - Yeah. - And her family was good to you. - True, yes. And that was another thing she would use that 'cause she knew that I had a rocky relationship with my family, but she would phrase it to her family as I was disowned by them. And that was very much not the case. It was just my mom and I were arguing, you know? We have a very complicated relationship but my family has not disowned me by any means. We just don't. - Yeah, but that's so much more interesting and dramatic. - Exactly, yeah. - Exactly. So that was the story she was telling her family the whole time and she kept saying it. And I just remember being like, "Why do you keep telling people my business?" And she was like, "Oh, Courtney's family disowned her." Is it okay if she comes home for Thanksgiving? Remember Courtney's family disowned her? Courtney's family's so crazy they disowned her. And I'm like, "Okay, chill, also around that time." Riley and Taylor into their relationship. So she tells me that they are toxic together and that they are never going to work and that she's been doing this back and forth and that's unfair to me. And so at that time around Thanksgiving, she's telling me that I am the one that she is choosing and that she has completely cut Taylor out of her life and that Taylor has moved on with other people and she's not concerned about what Taylor is doing anymore. And that her bringing me home is kind of proof that she's choosing me instead of Taylor. - So during that time, I'm still working remotely. So I am working in the basement of her parent's house and she tells me that she's gonna go to a doctor's appointment that day with her mom. - Well, you haven't heard dying. - I forgot about that. - Yeah, well, that's great that you bring that up. So they probably just went shopping that day to be honest, but she told me that they went to a doctor's appointment. She comes back downstairs, gives me a little kiss and she goes, you know, the doctor said that they actually misdiagnosed me. I just have a strained vocal cord. What, that's not a stop, terrible lie. I said, so you're not dying? And she was like, no, I'm fine. She just had asthma, like I knew she had asthma, but I guess she wanted to embellish that a little bit. - Had this not come up, like with her family or Taylor, anyone the disease, she told Taylor that she had two years to live in COPD. And she told Taylor that while Taylor was dating my roommate. So that was kind of used as a way to get Taylor back. - I totally forgot. - This whole time I've forgotten that she was like, terminally ill, which does add a layer if you really think that that's-- - Oh, it definitely does. - Yeah. - So apparently she's not dying anymore, but her family didn't say anything about it and that wasn't weird, because her family didn't really talk that much. They weren't very open about things. I don't wanna say that they were cold, like they were welcoming to me, but they didn't talk about things in that way. It was just very surface level. - But how do you determine you only have a year or whatever to live? And it's not even the, it's not, oh, it's just a vocal cord, like what? I was genuinely, I didn't know what to do with that. I said, how do they misdiagnose a chronic lung condition that could kill you with a vocal cord injury? And she was like, the doctors say that it's common, it happens all the time. And I was like, okay, I guess. - I guess. - But I had already known this girl for maybe a year and a half at this point and it felt like 10. So she had already put in her work on me. And at that point, it was basically primed to just believe anything that she said. - Also, the bed of nails theory of, if she had just done one thing, then you might notice it. But there's so many things going on that, like if you sit on one nail, it hurts. If you sit on a bed of nails, it just doesn't really. - Right, yeah, yeah. - So you're just like, oh, okay, another chaotic thing. (upbeat music) - So there's an organic bedding brand called Koyuchi. - I love my Koyuchi sheets. - How fun is that name, first of all? - Second of all, I love my Koyuchi sheets. Koyuchi, it only uses premium natural fibers. So the rarest 100% organic cotton or 100% organic linen, natural materials that are made to deliver your best sleep ever and only get softer with time. - And they really do. - They are so comfy, I'm obsessed with them. - It's very breathable, but it also very soft. You know, a scratchy sheet is the worst thing ever, but I feel like mine are not only soft, but they really keep me cool. Sometimes I'm a little bit of a hot sleeper and these are great. And I also just feel good 'cause they're free of toxic chemicals. - Yeah, and also it's like everyday luxury, you can feel good about bringing into your home. 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Taylor comes back into town in December when the new semester is starting. I'm moving to a new house still in town. And Riley helped me find it. She helped me move in and she started breadcrumbing me again. And this time, she tried to convince me that something was wrong with my SIM card on my phone because my text messages were not going through. They were going through as text messages or saying like, not able to be delivered or whatever. And it turns out that she was blocking me every time that she was going to Taylor's house. But she had convinced me that there was something wrong with my phone. So I'm in contact with T-Mobile trying to get a new SIM card stat 'cause I'm like, "Well, if people need a contact, "me, I need to have a good phone." - Oh no. - The whole time, she's just the issue. And that same friend who had sent me her post when she had me blocked on Instagram that started that big fight, that same friend became random roommates, randomly assigned with Taylor. So, Taylor and this ex-best friend of Riley's, are roommates. I'm still in contact with that friend and I am still thinking, fresh off of my Thanksgiving trip with Riley that we are going to be together. This friend informs me that Taylor and Riley have actually never broken up. They have been saying, "I love you." They've been FaceTiming every night and they are very much still together. Oh, my God. And at that point, I am like, okay, I'm talking to Taylor because Taylor and I had never had a direct conversation except that night at the center. So, we met on campus and we were both very wary of each other because of the work that Riley had put into pit us against one another. We did not like each other. And I felt, I never felt like less of a girl's girl than when I was with Riley, ironically, with all of us being women, because she really just used our emotions to pit us against each other and loved it. Like, she loved triangulating. - She was getting off on that. - Yeah. - Yes. And obviously, Taylor and I had many long conversations about the situation in Riley. We unpacked a lot together and part of that was acknowledging the ways in which we were manipulated into hating one another. So, we were able to see at the same time. time that we were both fooled. And Taylor and I on all of our Google photos, everything that we had, we laid it out. And we were comparing screenshots of text messages times when we had caught her cheating on us with each other. The specific lies she was saying about the chronic illness when she would go visit home, everything. The thing that we discovered when we got together, this one was one of my favorites. Honestly, I have some highlights of things she's done. There was one time she told me that Taylor was going to hack into her Instagram account and try to contact her. She goes, I can just feel it. Taylor's going to try to reach out to me. And she's going to try to get into my main account. And I was like, okay. And she goes, Taylor's going to try to reach out to you. And I want to intercept it. So can I get your login information for your Instagram? Somehow she convinced me to say, yes, she logs in immediately changes the password to my Instagram account. And luckily Instagram sends an email to you and says, this is suspicious. Do you want to get back into your account? And I said, well, yes, I do. So please, Riley had left to go back to wherever she was staying. She was staying with a friend toward the end of her journey in Resburg. And she was at that apartment, logged into my account, changed the password. I'm at home looking at my email. I log into my account and I see messages going from my account that I'm not sending to her main account. And I'm thinking that Taylor isn't her account. Mind you, I'm thinking Taylor is Riley. Riley is me. And my account is saying I want to be with you. I miss you. The universe is telling me that we need to be together. And her account is saying to me, I am with Taylor now, I don't love you. I don't want to be with you. That's the gist of the conversation. It's basically she's looking like. And then she can go to show Taylor exactly. And I had no idea it was going on at the time. I go back. The messages are all deweated. And I don't say anything about it for the whole day. And then Riley contacts me later, like FaceTime's means like, how was your day? And I was like, I was good. Why'd you lie? And that was one of the first times that I had actually confronted her. And the wheels are starting to come off. You know, like, I think she knew that she was starting to lose me and needed to get new, a new person in the next. So she was like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, it was just really funny. I was in my account. And I saw these messages that were not coming from me, but they were coming from my account. And she goes, Taylor broke into my apartment while I was there because I had my laptop open. And I had my phone. And I was logged into both accounts. And then Taylor said some really hurtful mean things to me and then threatened me. And I had to stand in the corner. And I don't know what she did on the laptop. So that was probably her. So when Taylor and I get together months later, we discovered she had just sent a screen recording of that conversation to Taylor to prove that I wanted her back. And she was turning me down. So sitting there with someone who has been sent this lie about me was crazy. I was like, I never said any of that. That was not me. But how do you prove it? Because it came from your own account, you know, right? Yeah. Yeah. So I reached out to Riley and sent her a long text message. I was mad enough at that point to finally put my foot down and say, I deserve so much better than this. You lied about everything. And I wish you nothing but the worst. Just pretty much. Everything that I had never said, I kind of let loose at that moment because I was always scared of losing contact with her. Even after her treating me the way that she did, I was still so scared of that because there was fear on the other side of not knowing life after her. She set it up that way. And when I finally let go of a little bit of that fear, that's when I was able to express my feelings, maybe not in the most concise way. But that was kind of the final break up for me. And then Taylor the same day called Riley. And she goes, you still love me, right? Like it's just me. And Riley's like, yeah, of course, it's just you. I just love you. And then she goes, but not Courtney. And she goes, you know, what? Okay. First of all, how dare you? Should you be so lucky? Right. And not really hurt my feelings at the time because yeah, I just went through all of this shit with you. Like I almost lost all of my friends because they were losing respect for me. I lost respect for myself. You were physically abusive. You mentally drained me. You emotionally drained me. You used me financially. And then you're just going to be like, you know, I don't want to be with you. So she was just saying whatever she needed to say to whoever was in front of her. Yes. And we also got in contact with her other exes. So there were four of us total. I was very fortunate that those exes were very, very kind and open to both me and Taylor when we finally came together. And we all decided to post on TikTok because of just our sheer numbers. We were like, there's no way that we can let this person get away with us. And being with somebody like that who makes you feel like you don't have a voice even in your own journal or in the privacy of your own phone, it's really important to you. And it was important to me for many years after it happened to speak and to say something because I felt like if I didn't get it out of me, it was going to eat me alive. So I reposted my story and said, I'm going to clear my name. This is the full account of what happened. And then all of the other exes posted their full account with her. And then friends of those exes, my friends, people from the gay community that were like, I knew something was off about her because in the past, she had collected money for t-shirts for the queer group and nobody ever saw those t-shirts. She used that money to take another girl that we don't even need to talk about on a vacation to California on a road trip. She's never been in a relationship that she has not cheated in. She hasn't been single technically in over a decade now because these exes go back to 2015-16. There's always people on the on the hook. And I also learned that in high school, she lied about having cancer. Oh my god, of course you did. And and stalked this one girl because she had a crush on her. Like the girl reached out to me and said, thank you so much for posting because I thought I was crazy and she needs to be locked up. Like I cannot believe she's still doing this so many years later. Having other people from over a decade ago, message me and tell me these things makes me feel very validated and very secure in my decision to post about this person and my experiences with this person. So I've had a lot of people from her past come forward and tell me some wild things about her stealing money from her job. Oh my god. And she's the one out of the money for the center. Exactly. Yes. So some of the mothers from those groups started an investigation with go fund me. But it came back to me because it was connected to my card at first. So she got off because I sent them screenshots of me sending her all of that money and they never investigated it further. And there were also some drag queens who had raised $5,000 for us and left the check at marshes. And when she skipped town, like when she knew I had gotten together with her exes and she was going to be in trouble, she took that check. So she stole at least $15,000 from that is so much money there. And just didn't communicate with anybody about it. Like the center never opened. It was really sad. Oh, that's the least it was in her name. Like what did she do about the location? This is messed up. I honestly have no idea how she got out of that. I'm glad it wasn't in your name. I'm glad she did. Yeah. She tried. She wanted me to put my name down on it and I said no, I'm not doing it. That was the one time I put my foot down because she was like, if you're not going to put your credit card down for this center, then you don't really believe in it. I was like, what? Okay. Now. So she definitely made it. She used the center as a way to make me do a lot of things. Yeah. Oh my god. This is crazy. And then in whenever we caught her, me and the other exes, she had already started dating someone else. She moved to Utah and started dating this girl that she ended up marrying and is now divorced from because she had an affair on that girl for an entire year with her friend of six years. She's Louise. And she's now with that girl. So she clearly has not changed her pattern, which is why I'm sharing this story so many years later because she's so many from that girl too. And the good thing about the ex-wife is that Riley's parents are paying the ex-wife back for the money that she has taken from her. So that ex-wife is getting paid back, but her family is doing that. And apparently her family knows that she lies and they're, I don't want to say they're complicit, but the response was just, we know that she lies. We don't believe anything she says. Yeah, I just say it is what it is. And different about it. So she's just going to continue on her path, I guess, but she has done the same exact thing to all of us. So I tried to warn the current girl and I know how that goes because one of the exes early on did try to warn me and because it was just one voice. Yeah, they didn't go into detail about their experience with her, but they said be careful because she can be physical and because she was one person and because Riley had already annihilated their character, had already said they were crazy, they were diagnosed with borderline, Riley would use that against her exes a lot to say that they were actually crazy and she also had friends that she had convinced all of her exes were actually crazy, so they were telling people in town that we were lying, even after we came out of their story. It was insane and those friends have come to me since then and thoroughly apologize and I don't blame them for anything because I understand how manipulative she could be obviously. So everybody's kind of had a chance since years have passed to come back and be like, hey, I'm really sorry, I was being fed nothing but lies by her and I totally believed you were a bad person. So it was nice to kind of have those people come back and form a weird community in a way that's like a survival experience. Also, if they're smart, normal people, you can think, oh, maybe I'm not an idiot, she was able to manipulate all of these other people too. Exactly. Yeah, and the whole time she also, when she got with a new girl, she really had it out for me because I had named her online and got her canceled. So she was making, I had other friends that were on her Finsta and her Instagram who were sending me her posts after all of that happened. And she was just making up lies about me and saying that I was trying to contact her family, saying that I was emailing her nonstop, that I was harassing her and that she was going to have to take out a restraining order on me whole time. She's bouncing back and forth between Colorado and Utah to be with her new girl who became her life. Great. What? She just really wanted people to not like me and not bully me. Yeah, that's so much going on at one time. Like, oh, Laura. Yeah, girl. This is such drama. It's such drama. Well, I've not been single for four years. Thank God. I just need to think I am so happy to be single. How do you feel being single now? Like, are you like, this is fine. I'm single and it's fine. I'm so grateful for the experiences that I had with her and that things got so bad because I have made a promise to myself that it will never, ever, ever get that bad again. Like, maybe it's turned me into a bit of an avoidant. I'd like to think not. I still think that I approach things with an open heart. But it definitely, yes, yes. I'm much more cautious now. I'm much more picky now too. So if you're not adding anything to my life, if you're coming into my life needing things and like needing me to save you or you're lacking things within yourself, like you don't have everything you need in here. Yeah, we're good. You need to keep your distance because I've got that going on. And I don't want to provide that for you. So boundaries have been created. So that's what we've been saying also. Like you're confident in yourself with it. And I think that's cool because so many people are like, no, I want to get into a relationship right away. Yeah, especially after the religion you grew up in, because that pushes you into wanting security and relationship. I realized that being in the church primed me to be in a relationship like that, because it was controlling every aspect of my life. And so to step into a relationship with someone on an individual level that's controlling my emotions in a way that I'm used to, it felt familiar in a way because that religion is such a trap. Like I know that other people feel differently about it. And I definitely respect people's personal opinions with their own faith. But my experience with it, yeah, my experience with it is that for women, it's not a safe place. In many moments, you were sat down with a grown man and they're asking you about your sexual experiences. Like one time I was asked how many fingers were used in me. Yes, I don't know if that's appropriate to say, but no, it's appropriate. It's appropriate to say here things like that you experience and are told are normal. You're probably not going to run when someone toxic approaches you who's acting the same way, who's exploiting you in that way. So I've seen a lot of parallels. I've had a lot of time to take a look at everything retrospectively and understand it better because I'm not in the middle of it anymore. But I only left the church five years ago. That was still 20 plus years of my life that I spent dedicating myself to this thing that I wasn't really meant to fit in to begin with. But I think the biggest takeaway too is just I have obviously listened to y'all's episodes and I really appreciate everything that you guys do because it made me feel a lot better even years later, knowing that you can never be too smart, too pretty, to whatever, to not fall into something like this. Absolutely. Everyone can be a victim at some point. And the minute, what do you say, Hannah? The minute you think it doesn't, it can't happen to you is when you're the most vulnerable. Exactly. It's true. It's true. And I'm sad that you had to go through it in order to feel as confident as you do now, but it's so nice to hear how good you're how what how how yeah, how good you're doing. You sound confident. It's hell now. And that kind of I feel I'm like, she's a bastard. She's like in her own. Yeah. I think the biggest thing too is to have a lot of grace and patience for yourself. If you've gone through something like that because it's really easy to shame yourself and be like, I should have done this or I could I should have done that better. But the truth is, you're always just doing the best that you can with what you have. Yeah. So this is a lot a little messy. It's a little messy for sure. Yeah, I feel like, well, first of all, the social media exposure, I think that a lot of people go to that to because if you're exposing someone on social media, like you are ready to let the world know what they have done. It played quite a role in this entire experience because it seems like Riley was big on social media and using it even back at the beginning when she was dating Courtney, but then making videos with her ex that were weird. Like, I don't know why everything was so public. It's not my style. Even you, I mean, you're a public person on social all the time, but you still aren't posting like the there's some things that can be private. Yeah, they're not. It's like something else is going on here. No, once it gets to the point where all of this is going down, I love that she posted about this person because they were a public and they were doing this to a lot of people and look at all the people that came forward. Yeah. And that's that just well, first of all, it goes to show the power of your voice. Use your voice as a weapon for sure. The part with the physical abuse when she attacks her was so scary. And I think I'm glad she pointed out how police were very dismissive of it, like a cat fight between the great agree. Yeah, rather than taking it seriously. And I'm sure a lot of people have experienced that, which is unfortunate. And I also wanted to talk about the kind of messiness of being friends with your exes, which comes up in queer friend groups a lot. Not just queer friend groups, obviously. Why is that more so in queer groups, you think? So I think there's a definite reason one smaller pool, especially in a small Mormon town. Like there are less people who are gay to date, let alone to be friends with and to feel safe with. And I do think that there is this pressure to stay in that relationship or stay in that group. So even if you break up, it's not, you know, you're all friends with each other. And then I think all of us, whether you're queer or not, have that kind of idea that it's mature. It's almost like performative maturity. Because it's actually mature to acknowledge that like, it's probably better for me to back out, you know, but we all have done it. I'm sure we've all done it. We're like, yeah, we're totally fine. Like it's totally fine. You can stay on my couch, whatever. But as far as like I do think that people probably think it's crazy on the outside to be like, oh my god, why are all of these girls friends with their exes and dating each other? And it is toxic. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but I understand why it happens. It's like a necessity, especially in a place where there's not a lot of queer people. So I feel for her wanting to stay involved in a positive way with the person who was the president of the underground organization. It's like, if she look what happened when she became the enemy of that, it was like drama and bad. So I, I totally get why she stayed in her orbit. And I think it would be a little too easy to say like, well, you should just not talk to your exes. It's like, not that easy. Not that easy. And it's not that easy. I get that too. I really do. Right. And sometimes it's great. Sometimes you can totally be friends with the next. If you tell me you're doing that, am I going to have questions? Sure. Yeah. But then it's a matter of then it's a matter of what are we consenting to as far as what we think is okay in our, you know, what are we agreeing to together? True. What are you? Oh, you mean like, yes, I agree. What are you like if you like if someone's okay with it? Like if yeah, like if someone says, oh, I'm with this guy and he's friends with X and I don't mind. Then great. Like there's no problem, right? Yeah, I think it's totally possible. I think you just have to Be very clear and communicative about it and Don't do anything that Riley did Did not do it well. Okay, dry begging we talked about Yeah, like, oh, I really wish I had a bunch of money And it's very passive-aggressive and it makes you feel obligated to volunteer and then all of a sudden it was your idea To help I don't like it and she just loved bombed her I mean she was like I love you after six days and then the whole thing about taking her home to her family Yeah, almost has a move And I felt for her when she was talking about how she and her mom got into fights so it made her almost Drawn to the family of Riley, which is yeah It was bad. What else? What else? Oh, she's not dead. She was not Il a lot about that. Hey, guess what I'm not dying just FYI. I was misdiagnosed It's like kind of insane to be misdiagnosed with a terminal illness given a year to live and then just left on your own Right, it doesn't happen. It's weird and also Everyone in your life. I feel like would be aware of that and concerned Hundred person, but remember we had that other episode a long time ago, which was also lesbians surprise Why are we good girls all faking the cancer and stuff? No, but it was the one where she said she didn't want her to tell anybody that she was Terminally ill. Yeah, because she didn't want her roommates to be nervous or freak out and then she was like texting her Doctor, which is like no The doctor's probably not texting you so I know 100% your doctor's not texting you not like that. Yeah, no I think that it's crazy to To lie about that, but yeah, if anybody is really really sick and they really want to keep it under wraps I mean, I respect your choice, but to me now I'm like Why though? Yeah, yes, why? We also want to reiterate that dogfish are not just men and I know the show often gets a lot of men submitted and that makes sense But this is just a great example that it doesn't really matter who you are What kind of relationship you're in we've even had polyamorous relationships where somebody was still lying and not Stick into the agreements like it doesn't matter It's all about just honesty and these people are just dishonest and I think it is important to remind people that it can happen to anybody Because as soon as you start thinking it can't happen to you That's been your vulnerable also Mormon religion any religion that also comes up on the show a lot and Even we just had a patreon story that was somebody in the military was cheating and I feel like military gets a similar reputation And we we're saying it when we did the patreon were definitely not against those organizations But it is just important to be aware of how they set a foundation for the potential of an abusive situation Like she talked so much about how her religious upbringing just made it so much easier for her to be susceptible And you have to identify that so you can avoid it Mike just started being weird, so We're wrapping up dogfish debrief a little sooner, but thank you all for your thoughts and if you have experience in BYU we would love to hear from you or if you want to send supportive messages to court me You can comment them on spotify or anywhere you're listening that has commenting sections Or on social media at dating detectives podcast and you can email us always we want your stories Investigate at the dating detectives podcast dot com I can see your Mike's being weird. I feel like I'm talking to myself. I miss you But you can still join me even if it's choppy for our final reminder Because we have to end every episode as always always Confirm tuition You