The Business of Being a Billionaire ft. Baiju Bhatt

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Welcome back to Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and financial pop culture. Today's guest is basically the blueprint for new money. Baiju Bhatt is the co-founder of Robinhood, and you guys, he's here. And just to be clear, Robinhood is the reason that you can take out your phone and trade stocks for free. Like, it's that investing app that democratized it for millennials who are always on their phones. And he's basically the reason that retail investor became a household name. Like, he made investing part of the culture for everyone, not just Wall Street. But Tea, Baiju has stepped away from his day-to-day life at Robinhood. Guys, he's not the company anymore. I mean, he's still on the board, but now he's on to his next chapter, which is obviously space. Like, he's trying to beam solar energy from space to Earth using lasers, which is chic and we should probably find out about, but this is some billionaire shit. And today, speaking of which, we're going to talk about the business of being a billionaire. So, like, what it's like to actually go from being a physics student at Stanford with immigrant parents to having a net worth with nine zeros. The responsibilities that come with it, who's in his inner circle when your life changes that dramatically, and how you think about money once you've already won the game. Like, why is he still working? Shouldn't he retire? But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report, Brewed Fresh Weekly, so we are up-to-date on what's even happening on Wall Street these days. Okay, guys, welcome to the Market Report. This is our Monday evening edition. It is 8 p.m. I just popped open a fresh Spindrift. We're about to get into it because there is a lot that you need to know about what's happening in finance and the economy right now. So I literally just got back from my parents' house in Miami. I ran over to the office, pressed record, and we're going to go through it. So here are the stories that you need to know. Okay, first of all, I don't know if you've heard, but the Dow did hit 50K for the first time last week. So, like, the Dow is crushing. The stock market is doing amazing. You're probably like, "Yes, Mrs. Dow Jones, let us pop champagne." And, you know, like, I'm definitely excited, but what I'm also a little worried about is the wealth discrepancy because we live in a little something called a K-shaped economy. And what that means is, like with the letter K, if you are on the top arm of that K, things are going up. You're going to the moon. If you own assets, only thing that you are doing right now is making more and more money. But the bottom leg of that K is going down, and that's everyone who doesn't own assets. And it's like, yeah, they are struggling. And the gap between those two arms is just getting wider and wider. Groceries have increased 25% in the last, like, four or five years, but wages have not kept up. So, I mean, A, this is why we always talk about investing. We're obsessed with investing. You've got to get on that upper leg of the K by owning assets. But also, I just, like, have been reading all these crazy stories about billionaires and the wealth gap, and I'm like, "Something's brewing. There's something that's going to happen." Because, you know, like, in this society, you can't, like, we need a middle class. We need a middle ground. And that's sort of disappearing. But, yeah, so, Dow hit 50K. We're excited, but we're also a little nervous because we want to make sure that we do have a middle class. We don't just have a top tier and a bottom tier, baby. Okay, the next story is, you know, of course, we're talking about the wealth gap. The wealth gap is hitting a 30-year high. So, California, a little state called California, has decided to enforce a wealth tax. Well, you know, they're voting to get it through. It's not official yet. But basically, they want to charge billionaires a 5% tax. And, yeah, you know, they've got them right where they want them. They said, "Pause up. You're going to have to pay taxes now." Because, you know, billionaires hate taxes. But here's the thing that they didn't account for is that they could just move these people. Yeah, they can actually just get new houses. And that is what they've done. They are all moving to Florida. The founders of Google just bought places in Florida. Mark Zuckerberg was just announced to be moving to Florida. Bezos is already there. There is a full-on billionaire exodus from California to Florida. And, yeah, so, you know, you can run, but you can't hide, is what I say, because I do think that we are getting to the point where there probably needs to be a little bit of tax reform around billionaires. But right now, the only thing that's really being taxed is our patience for humidity. So we have to see where we land there. But if you want to hear what happens when a billionaire chooses to share the wealth voluntarily, look no further than our girl, Mackenzie Scott, formerly Bezos, because she has just set a new record for charitable giving. Yep. She has donated, say with me now, $26 billion in the last seven years. Like, while everyone is, you know, fighting over tax brackets, moving to Miami, Mackenzie is just out here writing unrestricted checks, which is really cool and basically means she does not micromanage her giving. Like, she, you know, vets a foundation, decides she wants to donate to them, and then she gives them the money and she leaves them alone. She lets them do their work, which is freaking amazing. She gave away $7.2 billion just last year, which is more than her ex, Jeff, and Elon Musk have given away in their lifetimes combined. Yeah, let that sink in. So, um, love you, Mackenzie. You are everything to us. And if you're watching this, just know we would love to have you on the show. We would. We really would. Oh, and speaking of protecting your wealth strategically, Jessica Alba, girl, congrats! Jessica Alba's divorce went through from Cash Warren. Yep, they are officially no longer husband and wife. Um, but it was a bit of a, you know, a tough one to figure out because they famously had no prenup, which is like, "Jessica, you know, talk to me, girl. We will make sure that never happens again." Um, but she, and she was so successful. She started The Honest Company, which is like, everyone's obsessed with The Honest Company, The Baby Wipes, my little nephew, Ernest. He's always using The Honest Company wipes. Like, they really do a lot of good work over there. Um, but I felt like the husband could have really taken her for a pretty penny. But I was shocked to see that they have settled for a $3 million payment. So he's gonna get a $3 million, split up into two payments, $1.5 million this year, $1.5 million next year, and then they're done. No spousal support, no nothing. And I sort of feel like she crushed it. I mean, she has a lot of money and a lot of assets, and she just had to do 3 mil? Go, girl. Go, Jessica. Team Jessica. That is a clean exit. A clean exit, if I've ever seen one. Um, okay, that is the Market Tea for this week. Now let's go to my conversation with Bijou Bhatt on the business of being a billionaire. You're gonna love this one. Bijou Bhatt, welcome to the Financial Tea. We're so excited that you're here. Before we kick things off, I just wanted to ask you a few quick questions. Yes. What's the coolest thing that you're wearing? Oh, it's definitely this necklace. Okay, let's see. My wife got this for me. That's sick. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. This is my 40th birthday gift. And on the back is the solar system. No. Oh, because you love space. I do, yeah. Yes, because your dad also was, like, worked at NASA. Yeah. So it's in your blood. I grew up around, like, the space industry my whole life. Yeah. My dad was a research scientist at Langley Research Center. Mm-hmm. Like, working with NASA. And actually doing stuff that's not that dissimilar from what I'm doing now, which, like. All roads lead back. Yeah. The apple doesn't fall that far from the tree. What about. Do you have any financial icks? Like, you're obviously around a lot of people, probably around a lot of, like, really successful people. And, like, when they're moving with money. Mm-hmm. Like, is there ever behaviors that just sort of give you the heebie-jeebies? I think spending, like, an exorbitant amount of money on food. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah. That, I'm just like, I don't really get it. Because you eat it, and then you poop it out, and then it's, like, it's gone. You know what I mean? Do you have an example of that? Well, I sometimes go out to these events, and people have the fanciest wine. Yeah. And I'm like, number one, there's gonna be a headache immediately. Yeah. Number two, like, what do you. You know, I guess there's a real, like, if you're into it, there's, like, a, you know, like, there's a cool factor to, like, here's a really important, expensive thing, and we're just gonna consume it. Mm-hmm. But I guess maybe I'm just saying I don't really, like, want it. mind that much. Last question. Do you feel rich today? New York always makes me feel poor. Damn. Yeah. New York always makes me, because I, when I first was an entrepreneur, like I started my first two companies in New York and I was dead broke, like dead, dead broke. I remember my co-founder and I had a two bedroom apartment that was also our office. And at the time we had like several of our college friends that were interns, but we weren't actually paying them anything. Um, some of them were, but anyways, they were living with us. And so there were like at least like three or four dudes living in a two bedroom apartment. And it was just, it was too much sweaty and miserable. And we were so broke. Um, so yeah, every time I come to New York, I sort of just like get, you like, remember it's like PTSD. It's a little bit like PTSD. What did it look like when you were broke? Like, like what were like some of your habits? Well, I just remember I used to eat like, like the halal street meat guys or like the shawarma down the street. Like that was like the go-to meal. Yeah. So you and Vlad, your co-founder of Robin hood started two companies before Robin hood. So like, you know, people always talk about finding the one in relationships, but like, did you feel like you had that with Vlad at Stanford? You like laid eyes on him and you were like, that's the one that's my co-founder. I kind of do. Yeah. I kind of do. I remember the first time I met him actually, um, we met during one of the summers. In between the years of college. And we were both in this like summer research program through the physics department. And you had so much in common. Yeah. I mean, we were both only children. We both grew up in Virginia. We both had some variation of this haircut. Yeah. It was a great haircut. Oh, thank you. And we were both studying physics. And so, and it's kind of like this thing, like for me, at least going to Stanford, having grown up kind of broke, like you go there and you're like, Oh my God, not only is this place intellectually intimidating, but the people here come from like. Nepo babies. Yeah, they come from like well-to-do families. And you just, I felt very lonely. And I found myself like looking for basically like really, really long-term friendships. I mean, I met my wife at Stanford. Yeah. Everything happens sort of early. I met my co-founder there. And so, yeah, we were kind of like, I was like, Oh, this is like the brother I never had. That's the guy. Yeah. Okay. But when you were first time founder at Stanford, how did you raise money? Because I don't want to know. What are the secrets? Because a lot of people are trying to raise for their businesses. And especially in this economic landscape, not easy. Yeah. We ate shit and burned a lot. Like we sucked at it. How many times did you get knowed? Like probably over 50. How did you even get those intros? I mean, we would just, I mean, this was kind of the, I look back on what was useful about going to Stanford and doing this because I studied physics and math. That was not super relevant for creating Robinhood. What was really relevant was when we were in our early, early twenties trying to start a company, we had a, like a, you know, like basically a badge that we were smart. We went to Stanford. We studied math. And so there was a certain point where like people just took us somewhat seriously, which took on different forms and different ways. So it was worth getting the degree. Yeah, it was. Absolutely. So I think that's like one of the biggest things that came from it. But going through all those meetings and like hearing no's from investors, there was a bunch of really interesting stuff that came of it. And I think this will actually be used for people that are listening to this, but there was a version of those early pitches where we had this like very detailed plan of what we thought we were going to do, right? It's like, we're going to build this and then this and then this, and we would go and we would pitch it to investors. And it was not like, like that wasn't actually what would play out, right? Like the, the plan was like very detailed in specific ways and people would pick it apart and be like, it's not going to work. And we'd be like, well, that's just what we think we're going to try to do, but we're going to ideally figure it out over time. And then the light bulb kind of went off, I think probably after like a year or two of not really succeeding at fundraising, that fundamentally when people invest in companies at an early stage, before you've got a product, before you've got like substantive stuff to show for it, is they're betting on the people. 100%. They're betting on like whether they think you are a good entrepreneur. The idea could be completely wrong, but are you the kind of person that's going to see it through? And so then I remember early on, like when we were trying to raise the first million dollars to get the thing started, we started doing it differently where we would go in and we'd be like, we'll send you the materials afterwards. But the first meeting, we just want to talk to you about what the idea is. That's sort of punk rock. Yeah. And it sort of flipped it on their, on their head and said, you know, we're actually, we're going to drive this ship. What people actually cared about. And this, you know, there are still plenty of people that said no, but they were fundamentally interested in whether we were the guys that we're going to see it through, even if the idea was totally wrong. With Robinhood though, what's so crazy is that three years after launching it, so you're going from, okay, you're in New York, you guys are broke, you have your two startups, then you move back to California, you start Robinhood. Three years later, it gets a valuation for a billion dollars. Did that give you financial whiplash? Like, what did that feel like? How did that change your every day? I didn't change it that much in the very beginning. I mean, I kind of told myself the moment I made some money, I was going to buy a Porsche 911. Yeah. Yeah. I did that. That was like one of the first things that I did. Yeah. What color? A black one. Chic. Okay. Do you still have it? I do actually. Yeah. You can never get rid of it. No. That's your baby. She's iconic. Yeah. But what did change in those early days? I think being able to exhale a little bit, right, was a big part of it. I think also being able to like earnestly focus on the company building. Because if you're, there's a threshold of being broke where it's very distracting. Yeah. Totally. And expensive. Like if you have overdraft fees, things like that, where it's like, you just feel like you're on this hedonic treadmill. And interestingly, to that point, like through the history of building Robinhood, one of the things that I, that I did very regularly is I would go and interview customers. Like I would go travel around to middle America and just sort of pretend I was a software engineer, something like that. So people weren't like, oh, that's the guy. Yeah. That's, you know, that's the guy that started it in the corner. And just listen to the stories of people and their money. And you realize exactly like this, where overdraft fees and stuff like this, like that's like a big deal for people in their lives, right? It's a huge deal. And it's a whole industry. Like that's like what propels so many financial services companies. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, okay. So nothing really changed, but like, did how people treat you change? Like, did you have any like weird moments and also how with your actual bank account, like when you, when your net worth is tied up in a company that is highly valued, that's not liquidity. So like, you know what I mean? So you're like, I know about liquidity, but like, so how does it actually like, you know, affect you? Or is it something that you're like, I don't know, how does it actually like, you know, affect you. So I, you know, I stole, I sold a little bit of stock in the early days of the company, which I think as an entrepreneur, if you get that chance to do it, especially if you're the first time around is I think, uh, it's a, it helps you kind of think a little bit more long-term because if you have the situation where on paper you've got like a zillion dollars, but in your bank account, you've got like nothing, that's not gonna, that's not how you want to be approaching your day to day. Like you want to, you want to have a little bit of calm again, kind of in service of this idea of like focusing on the thing you're trying to accomplish. Right. Because at the end of the day, that, that decade or so of my life was about building that product and making it useful for people. Right. But you did. Yeah, it worked. And so like everything else is noise. Like it's the product and serving the customers that is the alpha and the omega of every day. And that's kind of how I approached it. Right. So like if you're, and this is kind of, again, kind of the way I approach it, like, you know, again, kind of coming back to love of cars, like that's one thing I kind of used to say is I could kind of like booby trap my life with fun stuff. Cause I, no matter what I'm doing during the day, I still have to like go back and forth from work. And so if I can make that little part of my day a little bit more joyful, because I love cars, like it, it helps kind of focus on the main thing, which is building products that people want and making them useful for people. Sunscreen, snacks, a stapler. Shop, pay, manage your account and earn rewards all in one place. See paypal.com slash protection terms. Build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work. Use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Okay, so life changed really, fast, but then you were in it for a while. But you know, yeah, so you you but you met your wife in college. Yeah. So how long into Robin Hood did you guys like get married we got to so we we dated for a few years before we broke up for a little while do you think it's important to break up like in any relationship i think it was important for us yeah i feel like that always works though it's like then you come back together yeah we were also like we were kids when we first met right we were like we're like college sweethearts it's like the notebook vibes yeah and we got back together and when we did it was like we're like okay if we're gonna do this like we're definitely we're in that we're gonna get married we're gonna have family yeah the whole nine yards do you have people like i feel like something that is not really talked about but that's so important is like as your life gets bigger as you get more successful as you accumulate more wealth you also have to accumulate like a team around you to support that yeah i think that's important yeah so like what does what did that look like to set that up because obviously you set up many companies but like now you are a company too your home is your home yeah so like what does what did that look like to set that up because obviously you set up many companies but like now you are a company too your home is your home yeah so like what does what did that look like to set that up because obviously you set up many own life as a company yeah yeah okay so i'm gonna give a shout out to my trainer who i got kind of recently okay cool his name is giles and he is ripped okay he is a very very handsome dude okay so i work out with him um right now four times a week i think but i want to go up a little bit okay so he's one i have my estate manager who has been kind of by my side for a really long time he's awesome what does he do he does all the different things in my life so he spends a lot with like the car collection because he's also a car guy that's like one of the things that he's spending a lot of time on he also helps kind of with the day-to-day of things right so he travels with me pretty often he's an old special forces guy oh that's really cool so he's like a walking swiss army knife i love that and he's he's very like you know he he won't if you ask him it's like well what was that like when you were in the armed services he'd be like he'll never tell you like oh shit yeah he's seen some things he's seen relaxing he's like oh my this is retirement for me i'm just yeah with some cars um another person that we have that joined us recently is the car mechanic oh so i have a full-time guy whose job it is to fix and work on cars that's major and he's really good and i love having him in the mix okay so we've got trainer estate we have some nannies we have some nanny how many nannies do you guys have because you've got three kids you got another on the way three kids my wife is pregnant so yeah we have i think three nannies three nannies and then when and then obviously when the baby comes you'll have you know night nurse all that stuff yeah yeah that's important four four boys is a lot of boys that's a lot of boys that's a lot of boys yeah how do you handle generational wealth with them and like talking about money and like your success i don't really know to be totally honest i think the there's a version of this that you can do where it's like you want to try to recreate the childhood i like if i were to try to recreate the childhood i had like force these difficult circumstances on them yeah you're like you have to you know yeah it's like you can't actually have this yeah yeah yeah i don't i don't think that's the right thing to do to be totally honest yeah i think the most important thing you can do is just sort of phony yeah it is sort of phony it's like why would you manufacture that i think the the bigger thing for them and again if they're listening someday it's like just try to like be super successful at whatever you want to do and use the fact that you've had you know the resources in life to like make that happen right because i mean if i had had the resources that i have now when i was a kid to to to pursue the life like yeah i would have made the most of it right but and so they should do the same basically um and it's kind of interesting right because it's like what are they going to do like in this world of ai and the way the world is changing like what kind of jobs are they going to have and i think the through line that's like the most important is whatever you do just work super duper hard and you're going to be able to do whatever you hard and try to be the best so like the business of being a billionaire it's a lot of work but you're making do where we have our nice structure do you feel like a lot of societal or do you feel a lot of pressure from yourself to like have impact with your money like explain that a little bit because i'm there's so many people who are like there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire and you know who are sort of uh have feelings about it yeah i'm a capitalist so like i believe that like it's amazing to be able to make a lot of money and i think it's amazing to be able to make a lot of money um and that that's a that's part of the american dream it is well let's zoom out a little bit and then zoom back in okay the zooming out thing is actually related to the idea of robin hood and also related to a lot of like my story as a human being my family came to the u.s from india because my dad wanted to pursue higher education he wanted to study physics and it was like very very it was never ever lost on me that my parents left a life that they had and a family they had behind to pursue this dream so it was like this constant thought that like my parents made sacrifices to be a part of american society and it was like this is the place of upward economic mobility which you can look at it as narrowly as like this is a place that you can start businesses and make money but if you look at it more broadly and kind of think about it where we are as a moment in time like it is a place where you have the the ability to pursue your own self-betterment love that and that manifests in like life liberty in the pursuit of happiness right like these very basic ideas this doesn't exist other places in the world yeah no that you literally went from baroque in like new york city a million people years ago yes and then in three years you were at the helm of a company worth billions of dollars like that's that doesn't happen other places that happens in america though and so i guess it's a little bit more complicated than what robin hood has done as a product it has given millions of people access to the public markets and the ability to take whatever money that they've made and put it to work and pursue their own self-betterment like these are the most important ideas of our society and it is incredibly unique this place in the world that we can that we have these freedoms so to the zoomed out version of this is capitalism is not a bad thing at all i think it's actually freedom is in its purest form to be able to do what you want and to be able to create a life for yourself so i think it's super duper important and i think it's um it's sad that we live in a time where that's called into question because i think it's like fundamentally a good thing yeah i think all the alternatives to it have never worked out and they fundamentally involve like abdicating a degree of individuality right giving up some agency in life as time goes by as like my life goes on the ability to be myself the ability to do what i want and like express those ideas through my effort hard work all these things like that's what matters to me and i think these are really closely tied to the ideas of capitalism do you feel a responsibility to society to be an ethical billionaire and how does that manifest for you yeah so i think the way it manifests for me i think it's trying to put my resources time and money to things that i think are important yeah right where for a lot of people i think that's like a big big big focus on philanthropy for me the big focus is on like creating stuff and that's what i'm doing professionally right so i'm trying to create another company that hopefully has a really meaningful impact on the world as a whole yeah and like not just thinking about myself as like a person that's got money but as a person that can create things and that can use that know-how and those resources to like knock down bigger and more important problems right i talk so much about uh about obviously like money and how people build wealth and manage their money and i think that like you know most people are just on a track where they're trying to get out of the red and like feel some sort of solvency which is totally possible i do believe that um but it does really come from systems so like what sort of systems do you have to keep an eye on your on your finances because i can only imagine like that there's got to be nefarious people who try to take advantage or try to sell you on weird deals or you know what i mean like you have to have trusted advisors who help you understand how to allocate your capital yeah will you walk us through that a little bit and also like are there secret banks for billionaires like do you just have like chase i mean you use robin hood but like you know what i mean like what sort of what's their cool things do you get access to yeah so actually i did have a chase bank account for a really long time like during many of the early years and i kind of just kept my money there they're like you're a really good customer yeah that's very great customer for them well you seem like you've always been really focused like even what after robin hood you know did so well it's like you're yes you have a cool car to drive to the office but you're still driving to the office yeah every day like it's just about doing the work but like do you have financial advisors how much do you keep an eye on your what's happening because there's so many stories of people who when they don't keep an eye on things like that happened to rihanna yeah did you know the rihanna song bitch better have my money bitch better have my money you know tell me what happened to her she was like so big in she you know she was doing her ponder replay tour like i totally blown up she was with uh jay-z's record company and they gave her uh accountants they were like okay like here's the people who won't and so she blindly trusted them and just focused on the work you know was like okay, I'm going to make my music. I'm going to dance. I'm going to interact with my fans. Like they've got that. And then she had done a worldwide tour, like been working every night grinding. And she came back and was like, I want to buy a house. And she couldn't afford a house. And so she was like, what's going on with my money? And realized that they had been like taking exorbitant fees, like totally messing up her taxes, like just to completely screwed her financially. And so she obviously got rid of them, has since become a billionaire with Fenty, wrote the song Bitch Better on My Money. But I think it's such a good example of like the importance of having a money date. And so I wonder sort of how you make sure that you don't have those people in your life, or like who, how do you know that you can trust people? What's the system for you? Like walk us through it. I've got a family office. I manage most of my money. They're very responsible. And what is a family office? It's like a financial firm that you hire that manages your money and then kind of help with your day to day in life. So and they basically they take your money and they invest it and it's almost like its own hedge fund or something. Yeah, they invest the money. They sometimes they invest in other companies and they bring like deals and stuff forward to me. They also actually help with a lot of other stuff in life too. So they like kind of help with hiring people and like managing. We don't have a huge number of people work for us. We have a handful of people. They kind of help manage that. Like payroll, things like that. Yeah, yeah. Health insurance. We actually have, we have another company now that does payroll for them and stuff too. I also have a person that's a like chief legal officer of my family office. Smart. That's always the first hire. Yeah. This is like one thing that I've learned over the years is like having really, really, really good lawyers that you trust is like a critical thing in life, especially as a successful person. Okay. But like, because so much of what we do is just like helping people with their finances. So like, I feel like it's cool that you've created something where it is, uh, it's in the background. And I always think about that with money too, where it's like, you don't have to be someone who's obsessed with finances to have a good relationship to your money. You just have to have good systems and good people to help you. You have to be fundamentally curious about it. I think this is one thing that, so talking a little bit about this specifically, right? Like this was kind of, this was a, one of the thoughts behind creating Robin Hood. Cause we started, the idea for it came with a backdrop of occupations. Wall Street and all that stuff happened. We're again, kind of relating back to like the importance of capitalism. That was another period in time where a generation of young people looked at the financial system and they're like, this thing is broken. This doesn't work. We've got to tear it down because it's just so broken. And at that point in time, we're like, what the, like, what the heck is going on here? Right? Because again, our families both came to this country to pursue a business. And we're like, well, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do a better life. And there is a sense of like, there's another way, which is like, if more people care about their own finances and the way the financial system works, then more people will have a shared interest in the whole system succeeding. Which I think is way better than people looking at this, the sort of system and the constructs of capitalism being like, that's broken. Instead, you can be a part of it. And if you think it's, you know, really creating this much wealth inequality, like why not have more people be a part of the thing? Yeah. Because obviously we all know how you grow wealth is investing. You can't. Yeah, you have to save your money. Yeah. You can't earn your. You can't spend it all when you get it. And you can't save your way to wealth either. You have to make sure that it's in the market. It doesn't matter where you're at in your financial journey. Like that is just how it goes. I think this was like probably the, arguably the biggest breakthrough that Robinhood created is it was built for an audience of young people, right? It was built for an audience of people that for generations before had been like, wait till you're like plus or minus five to 10 years from retirement and then think about saving your money. But if you kind of think about that, what that created was a generation of young people that were apathetic about this. And like following the 2008 collapse and during that time, if you ask young people about their money, it was almost a point of pride to like not. Know what you were doing. But that nihilism still exists. So what do you come back with vengeance? And I see it a lot in my work too, where it's like, that's why I wrote future rich person because it's in the subtitle of future rich person is the new rules for building wealth. Even if you're stuck broken, that billionaire won't text you back because it's like, even if like you feel just like the system is totally out to get you and like, there's just no, why even try because you're already so far gone. What do you say to that? I think we all have the ability within ourselves to pursue the life we want and doesn't matter where you start out. Like you have, we all have agency. We all have the ability to do stuff, right? Free will, free will. I feel like I've lived that in my life, but the kind of book on this point a little bit, like the, the importance of like having curiosity about your finances of how the system works, like being genuinely knowledgeable about it and like pursuing an understanding of this, even at a young age, it's going to like make you not clueless as you go through life. Totally. But are you like, do you look at your credit card statements? Like, what does that look like for you? Like what is, how, how do you keep an eye on things? I have like, I'm at the point now where I don't have to think about it that much. And to me, that is like one of the biggest luxuries is I can kind of keep track of the thing I'm spending things I'm spending money on in my head and I've achieved a point in my life. Where I don't have to like go through line by line. Lord knows I had to do that for many, many years of my life. But I think the important thing is, is like at a pretty young age in life, you need to be financially savvy. You need to be curious about it. You need to be learning about it and like not putting it on the back burner because money compounds over time. If you're smart about it, if you approach the system as one where you may not be at the place that you want to be, but like the tools and the opportunities that are out there, you just have to like keep banging on the right doors. You have to keep trying at whatever your ideas are and you'll get somewhere. Right. And if you get to that next step, that's not completely broke. Now you have the opportunity to be slightly less broke and you can keep building and building from that. Um, and I think it's actually, I think it's like, not great that there's a lot of voices in society that sort of reinforced that nihilism that you're talking about. I don't, I don't, don't worry. You're in a safe space. I'm like, I'm like, there is so much opportunity. Like I so believe, and I, like, where does that go? No, because you don't understand. There's like the coolest, like the influencers that all the girlies love, like the ones who, you know, are at all the cool parties and whatever they will, people will, they'll do an AMA and people will be like, you know, young girls who look up to them. What do you do with your money? And they'll be like, to be honest, the world is so screwed. So I just spend the money on shoes and I literally like, you have no idea how that makes me feel. Cause it's like, what are you doing? I'm talking about, first of all, for women, it's so important for us to have financial mobility and financial independence, but also like, why is that a cool perspective? Why is that something that you would want to like own and celebrate? Like, it's so, I don't know. I'm all about growth mindset and trying to find those opportunities. Sunscreen. Snacks. A stapler? And with purchase protection on eligible items, biometric security and pass keys, you're protected at every step. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people. With the right skills, certifications and more. Need a hiring hero? So your new company, tell us about it. It's going to take the energy from space and we're sort of like solar panels, but in space. Exactly. It seems like a little. So the idea behind this was kind of zoom out and then zoom in. The zoomed out idea was like, actually, there's this new platform, which is access to space. Yeah. And in that new platform, what are the industries like the human industries that exist in space? Well, you've got earth imaging, like taking pictures of the earth. Yeah. You've got defense stuff. Yeah. Starlink. You've got internet communications. That's the best. I love my. I love me some Starlink. Starlink is amazing. I know. On a plane. Ooh, that really does the trick. It's so good. So fast. You do FaceTime. I did that yesterday, actually. Yeah. Flying in. Beige wear? No, not beige wear. Oh, not beige wear. Okay. I wish. No, it's internet connection, like defense stuff, earth imaging. Yeah. You need energy. What else we got? Yeah. Right. Like when I look at low earth orbit and kind of space as a platform, the distinct feeling is that, there's going to be other commercial industries that exist here that haven't really been developed yet. Now, why am I talking about it like this as like a platform and different verticals of the economy? There's a very similar thought to the early days of Robinhood, where mobile and using mobile is this new platform. And when we got to it, if you kind of look at the different industries that existed on mobile, it was like maps. Search. Search. Photo sharing. Chat rooms. Communications. And we kind of had this idea that finance was going to live on mobile. And that there was going to be a native financial platform that was going to be on there. The reason I think this is interesting is like I wanted to pursue something where there was a lot of white space. Where there wasn't a lot of existing commercial activity because there's an opportunity to build something next year. Yeah. That's your favorite. Yeah. And so with space, the idea was two things. Number one, we need to create more commercial opportunities in space. Because again, this idea of capitalism is pretty central to my worldview. Yeah. And if you have more. If you have more ways for people to make money in space. Yeah. The whole industry will evolve quicker. Two, that you can't have a thriving economy without energy. That's true. Like that is one of the, you know, it's like one of the building blocks of commerce. And the idea behind the company in the beginning was how do we build an energy company in space? Like a power grid in space. And there's a lot of reasons why. But like one of the very cool reasons is. If you look at the different ways to make energy on earth, solar panels are actually one of, if not the cheapest ways. Yeah. It's dirt cheap to create electricity with solar panels. The problem. And it's gotten so cheap in the last 20 years. And it's a good industry. I once dated a guy who sold solar panels. Did you? Yeah. And he would make so much money. He would just literally go like door to door and was like. He had no credit. It was like a different. It was a really weird relationship. But he had no credit. But he was making. Yeah. Well, he grew up in a. A home that like they didn't believe in. Like his parents. You know, if your parents don't understand things, then you get scared and. Can I tell you something? Yes. I didn't have a credit card for the longest time. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Similar thing. Yeah. Also because first generation, it's so hard for parents. Yeah. My parents were like no credit cards. Yeah. They were like that's sketchy. Don't do that. Cash, debit. And you probably. Yeah. I think I actually got my first credit card like over COVID. No way. Yeah. That recently? Yeah. No way. And now. How many do you have? Two. Two. Well, I've got the Robin Hood card. You gotta have the Robin Hood card. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good one. Clearly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly that's the one that I use. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, man, that's so crazy. It took you till 2020 to get a credit card. Yeah. I went. I remember I went to go get credit. So you were fully a billionaire using a debit card? Yeah. I'm dead. I remember. Who like pushed you over the edge? Well, I got. I hired some financial managers. And they were like, what are you doing? What the fuck are you doing, Beju? That's crazy. And I remember I actually went to go and apply for the credit card and they like pull up my credit score and they're like, I think it was like zero. No, because you had never built anything. Yeah. And they were like, and I was like, uh-oh. I was like, no, I promise you. You're like, I'm good for it. I'm good for it. Google me. Yes. Do you leverage a lot of debt in your personal life? Like I do a lot of stories around that because people got really scared about debt and they were like. Nope. You don't do anything. I'm still that kid. I'm still that kid. You're still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I honestly am sort of like, maybe you should follow me. Like we can learn about credit cards. I probably should. We can learn about credit cards. We can learn about leveraging debt, like by borrowing at a lower interest rate than you could earn. I'm a simple man. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a man that pursues his ideas and tries to make them. I'm doing space. I'm doing kids. I'm doing guiles. I'm doing cars. I'm doing wife. I'm good. That's it. Yes. That's it. You keep it simple. I do. Yeah. Like seriously, no credit card for the longest time. That is so crazy. And so with your kids, are you going to like teach them about like, are you going to get them credit cards? And things like that? Oh, gosh. I haven't even thought about that yet. They're still little guys. We need to tease it out a little. My eldest is six. He's still a little guy. Okay. But he must be like trying to buy things on Roblox or whatever it is that they're doing. I feel like there's so many games that they can play that they want to have the credit card for. Yeah. I actually haven't really talked to him that much about money yet. I need to. Yeah. I mean, this is like a part of being a dad where I'm like, I find myself becoming my parents. Yeah. I'm like, just don't grow up. Aww. It's like be the sweet innocent kid you are. You don't want to, you don't want to burst the bubble. No, not yet. What has been something that's actually been really hard about your success? Like, I know you talked a little bit about safety. Like, do you think that's the hardest thing? I mean, I think it's hard to keep friends. Yeah. I think the nature of friendship changes a lot. Do you feel like there's an expectation for you to be like taking care of them or paying for like what, what is hard about it? Or like they don't relate to where you're at? One of the things that I get pretty often. In, in context is like, oh, wow. Like, you know, you're like kind of a normal person still. Like, what the hell did you expect? Yeah. Right. It's like what people treat you a little differently when you've been successful or they, they imagine you're living your life in some like very, very different way. Yeah. Where I'm trying my hardest to live my life like a normal person because, and this is not some like virtue signally thing, but there was a way that I approached the world. When I was not a successful quote unquote person where I approached it with a level of humility and curiosity, right? Like I didn't think I was the best at stuff, but I did think that if I tried really hard, I could be the best at it. I love that. Does that make sense? Totally. And so I kind of am in the journey of creating something new again. And so there's a question there. Like, do you approach it like a successful person or do you approach it like the person that built the thing the last time? And I'm kind of trying to approach it like the person. The person that built the last time beginners mindset. Exactly. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's exactly what it is. Yeah. Do you feel like it's important to have like that community of people who sort of understand, like, do you rely on them for, I always call it like my financial besties or business besties too, where it's like just people who are also, you know, running businesses or in a similar financial position. It's just so nice to be able to like candidly talk to them about these things. I think in many ways you are as good in your life as the people you surround yourself with. A hundred percent. So I think actually like, this has kind of been the cool thing. There was a period of time during the COVID era where I feel like a lot of successful people collectively were like, we're done because we were all stuck at home. And you were just like, I'm getting a credit card. I'm getting a credit card. We're all stuck at home. It felt like the world was changing. There was like a real venom in society some ways towards people that were successful where I, and you know, I'm not speaking about any like sort of broad sentiment was like, I think people were a little bit less ambitious, like during and shortly after the COVID era where the, there's been a complete vibe shift in like the last two years where successful people are going for it. So now you're like, damn, all my homies are out here grinding once again, once again, we are all building from the bottom once again. And I love it. You do love it. And I think it's just such a better way to live. Your life. Like we're not, we're not dead yet. We got, we got stuff to do. So the dream was never to like, I feel like for so many people, the dream is just to get money and get off the grid. That's not the dream. Live that dream. See what that feels like. It gets real boring. Yeah. Real fast. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Paige, you for being here, for spilling your financial tea. I did. You really did. I didn't spill any coffee though. You didn't spill any coffee, but you did give us some really good insights. And I think that you're probably gonna see us going to. Me and you, we're going to go there together. Yeah. Thank you. Stay rich. Yeah. Bye.