The Brutal Truth About Corporate Fertility Benefits (Freeze Your Eggs Is Barbaric!) - Good Morning Harley Street

Deirdre O'Neill: Hertility's Mission and Personal Origin Story Deirdre, who are you and what is your mission right now? Speaker 2 Big question. I am Co founder, Chief Commercial and Legal Officer at Fertility. I am a dual qualified lawyer. So I did a master's in medical law and then I specialised in venture capital and M&A before starting the vampire that is Fertility. And our mission is essentially to provide accurate, personalised, preventative diagnostic healthcare for all women in their homes, to make it as accessible and affordable as possible, but never compromise on Clinical Excellence, so to give women answers in days, not years. Speaker 1 And why did you start it initially? Was the you know one thing that kind of showed you that this was a huge problem that you need to fix. Speaker 2 There wasn't one thing and I can't claim that I started the concept. So my I have an identical twin sister, my roommate and she is a world leading expert in prenatal genetics and foetal medicine. And so she's a tenured professor at University College London. She lectured master's in medical students in reproductive medicine, reproductive health. And one of the things that was the constant in her work was the clinical discovery, the discovery in the lab for ways to reduce diagnosis times, but more in particular because she is a geneticist ways to find the find cures for the rarest of genetic conditions. You know, and yet there we were both in our 30s with this huge glaring question about our own fertility and about our about sort of the things that she was lecturing on, which is age-related fertility decline and the things that might impact someone's reproductive health. And the questions kind of arose about, OK, fine, you could be solving for the most rare of genetic conditions, but what about the most common of female conditions? What about the one in three women that has a gynaecological condition? What about the one in 10 with has PCOS, one in 10 endometriosis, one in six couples that are in fertile. The bigger question was why aren't we solving for the 50% of the planet and the most common conditions that impact them? And I think that the the kind of experience I had at the time, I was working in Cooley, which is a US international law firm, helping other companies to raise money. And I couldn't help but think that I, my own twin sister, had 100 times the intellect and ability of all of the founders that I was helping to raise money for, for silly ideas, which is to me, they seemed silly. So we really wanted to bring the clinical acumen out of the lab and into the hands of women everywhere. And so it began as a personal problem to begin with, where we both recognised that this was a question to say, OK, if you have access. If, if, if Helen had access to every expert in endocrinology, gynaecology, fertility and reproductive medicine, but she didn't have answers to any of the questions she had about her own body. It was just why don't you just try and have a baby, then you'll figure out if you're infertile. Or why don't you just not worry about it? You know, you're so young, you don't need to worry about this stuff, even though we know that all of the statistics and data suggests otherwise. And I think that for her and not having the those answers, it just, it has asked the question, OK, how is it that if I have asked, sorry, if I have access to all of these experts, but no access to just finding out, then there's clearly a gap. Why 'Just Freeze Your Eggs' Is a Barbaric Band-Aid Approach And then from my perspective, I have access to every insurance policy, every benefit within the workplace. And yes, no answers about my own health. So no way to check in the solution, growing solution being, you know, just freeze your eggs, we'll pay for you to have IVF. And I really have always thought that that's quite a bar barbaric approach. I think that to say we should be paying to help you avoid needing IVF, not we should be paying to you for you to have IVF as if it's some bandage. So I think the the growing awareness of the gaps that existed in the healthcare profession, but equally on the national healthcare system, you know, the answer was you have to be actively trying for two years to conceive before you'll be sent for routine tests or you have to have had four miscarriages or in as we've seen with our days of the 72% of people aren't even eligible for NHS funded treatment and yet they will wait on wait lists. So the solutions on the National Health system were so negligence to let women wait and then often times wait into their absolute demise, wait until there's no more hope left. It just didn't seem viable. So we want, we really wanted to together with Doctor Gutroy, our our Co founder, who's an ovarian biologist, rapidly reduce this sort of time from from symptom to solution. Doctor Gutroy is an ovarian biologist, so she specialised in ways to preserve women's fertility prior to cancer preservation or cancer cancer treatment. So again, from her perspective, the question was about how, why is it that we are not looking to preserve women's fertility irrespective of of cancer? Speaker 1 And So what would you say is, because I think that's a really common thing that you mentioned there that a lot of women weren't kind of go for help or even know that they need to seek help until you're there and you're at the precipice and then you're finding out that something's wrong with your fertility. What is the, what is kind of the journey, the woman's health journey that you see that actually needs to be occurring? That's not happening right now. The Economic Burden of Delayed Diagnosis and Hormonal Health I think women universally need to recognise that your hormones are not just for your fertility. I think the medical profession also needs to recognise that fact. Your hormones seem to be taken seriously when you've been trying to conceive for a certain amount of time. But what the failing in the medical profession is, I'll get a shock for saying that is not recognising that earlier preventative solutions can mean the difference between longer term implications health wise. And but what I mean by that is that your hormones have an impact on your immune function, on your metabolic function, on your cardiovascular health, on your bone density, on your muscle mass. Your hormones impact so much more than just your fertility that it should be recognised that checking in on your hormones is vital, not just because you want to have a child, not simply because you are curious about your fertility. And I think that that's one of the things that we've built with fertility is something that is much more clinically robust. That is an assessment not just to say I'm going to check in on my egg reserve. That's a key indicator of your fertility. But it's not the only one is to say, how can I assess all of the vital parameters of my hormones that are going to impact me like your thyroid health, like your all of the different facets of your overall health that might be implicating your fertility. So there's the the story and the journey for us always became a bigger question than just am I fertile? And that's what people should recognise and that's what women need to to start thinking about this in a way. Speaker 1 And So what, what are the biggest reproductive or even just general Women's Health issues that you're seeing? Because we're not going through that testing and checkups and all these things. Speaker 2 There's a huge economic burden caused by delayed diagnosis. If you look at the fact that 20% of the population have a thyroid issue, one in 10 have endometriosis, which is can literally fuse your internal organs. And yet the average time for diagnosis for endometriosis is 9 years. One of the groundbreaking things, nine, that's the average time. So, and most of we talk to like, oh, it took 15 years to get an endometriosis diagnosis. And it's because it's sort of, you know, down in your uterus is, is, you know, smushed in with all of your bowels and your other organs that can be then attributed to the pain. So it's all you've got IBS or you've got some sort of inflammatory condition and it's always attributed to something else. Up until now, endometriosis could only be diagnosed through open or laparoscopic surgery and it takes on average nine years. We can diagnose endometriosis with 99% diagnostic accuracy within one week, non invasively. So that is a huge breakthrough in terms of a solution for an individual who'll spend years trying to gain a diagnosis or gain an understanding of what is happening with their body. Speaker 1 And what does for, you know, for the person sat at home who has, you know, individual systems and is going through this process and it's taking all these years, what is the impact of knowing and getting that diagnosis, you know, within weeks versus within years? Speaker 2 I think it's much more than just one condition. So we can diagnose over 18 conditions within one week with 99% accuracy. That for so many people is a huge weight off their mind, but also it allows you to be able to conduct yourself in a way that future proofs yourself. So with the, with the knowledge that you will have about your potential condition, you know, you know then about some of the risk factors that might implicate you them some of the things that might implicate your health from a metabolic perspective, many of these conditions are metabolic conditions. So they are heavily impacted and influenced by what you eat. So I think getting an earlier diagnosis is huge. I think I went to an event once and a woman came up to me and she gave me a big hug and said she hugs and she was like, I'm so happy I got a PCOS diagnosis through her attility. We were like, sorry. And she's like, no, you don't understand how amazing this is for me to know it's not my fault. I'm, I'm constantly told I just need to lose weight or I just need to do this other thing. And in actual fact, I now know that it is a metabolic condition that is responsible for the way I feel, the way I look for the extra hair that is grown for the extra weight in around the middle. It's it's the solution for many ways for this, for your mental state to know that it is attributable to something else. Speaker 1 I'm going to take you away from the conversation just for a second because I know that a lot of healthcare professionals and clinicians listen in on these shows. Free Personal Branding Masterclass for Clinicians And one thing I hear time and time again from clinicians and even from consultants with those 10 years of experience is that they're finding it increasingly harder to be seen as an industry leader in their space. They see clinicians with a lot less experience getting the press mentions, getting the speaking opportunities, the advisory roles, and building other income streams. And a lot of them will tell us that they can't figure out why they're the ones that are being passed over and not chosen. Speaker 3 And the reason for this is because social media has completely changed again for how patients and organisations now find and perceive who is an authority. It used to be that Clinical Excellence and publications automatically elevate your career. Tenure, seniority and titles carried authority. But today, the advisory roles, speaking opportunities and queues of private patients are all going to the top 1% of healthcare professionals who understand visibility. Speaker 1 Being excellent clinically is no longer enough. You also need to be visible. But the problem is that medical training does not teach you how to build a personal brand. You don't know which platform to focus on, what content works, or how to do this without looking unprofessional or burning out. And so a lot of clinicians will stay invisible while opportunities keep going to people who aren't necessarily better doctors. They're just more visible. And that's why we created a free online workshop specifically designed for healthcare professionals, where we'll teach you the exact system for building a credible person brand that tracks opportunities and how to even monetize your online presence without spending hours per day on social media or compromising your professional reputation. Speaker 3 And this isn't theory. It's the exact playbook we'd used to help dozens of healthcare professionals transform from invisible to influential in their fields. Speaker 1 During the workshop with a link in the description of this episode. Thank you and enjoy the rest of the show. When to Start Caring: Proactive Reproductive Health & Egg Reserve And I think this woman, we're quite, we're quite used to sort of if you're experiencing pain or if anything is happening, you're quite used to just putting that at the back burner and not actually going out and seeking help. So who are the what stage is, is it an age? And what stage are you actually meant to start caring about these things? And what stage are you meant to start seeking help, seeking, you know, diagnosis, figuring out what is going on with your fertility? Because as you say, majority of people wait until they're trying to, they're trying to have a baby and then something happens and you you find out. Speaker 2 I think if you're armed with the knowledge that 88% of your egg reserve is gone by the age of 30, that one in three has a tiny condition, the thyroid function impacts 20%, that all of these different things can implicate your overall health, then it should be that you are proactive to Wellness, not reactive to illness. And that's the mantra that we should have. It's all very fine wearing wearables and tracking your steps, but our key mantra is you should be tracking your ovaries over your calories because they're going to be a much greater determinant of your overall well-being than the your macros and micros. And I think that fortunately, we're seeing an era of women who demand more. They expect more information about their bodies. But part of the problem is, is that now women are looking and seeking out more information, and that information from verified, credible people is not getting to them because of shadow banning, because of algorithmic suppression. But I think that if more people knew that they are not an outlier, they could be the one in six that's infertile, they could be the ones that have it, have some reproductive condition. It is so much better to check in and be able to do something about it than to wait and hope and then leave yourself to a point where there is nothing that can be done about it. Speaker 1 And then out of curiosity, for, you know, some of these starts here saying, like, one in six women are infertile. Speaker 2 Couple is very fertile. Speaker 1 And what have you seen in the data? Do you have any understanding of why that is? Is that is that a result of all lifestyle or is that actually just a natural? Speaker 2 There are many different causes of infertility and one of the biggest factors that we are seeing is age-related fertility. So obviously there are huge factors that implicate like reproductive health conditions, endocrine disrupting chemicals, our environment, but our age is 1 of the biggest determinants and the and women are simply leaving it much later to have children than they ever were before. So, and if you look again at that 88% of your egg reserve has gone by the age of 30, then it's, it's no reason, no wonder why because at 30, everyone's now saying Yolo, this is, you know, I'm living my best life. And before 30 was the age to settle down by. Speaker 1 Yeah. Understanding Hormonal Health and Workplace Reproductive Benefits And what would you say? What do you think that good hormonal health actually looks like? Speaker 2 Having hormones within, within range. So at least 72% of people who test with utility have a hormone out of range. That might not sound like much, but if you look at your hormone system or endocrine system as being like an orchestra, if there are 100 instruments playing and there's one bomb note, you're going to hear the bomb note. So similarly with your endocrine system, if there is one hormone out of range, you'll notice it with a symptom. So oftentimes the symptoms that we see are are very insidious and they're very easy to attribute to something else. So fatigue, I stayed up too late, doom scrolling, weight gain. I shouldn't have eaten Mackies on the weekend. Or, you know, the different things anxiety, you know, works just Dorking me out. Like there's so many different things that can be related to a hormone out of balance, but that we can also relate to something else. So that again to that thing which you've said about you can easily fab it off and you can self blame or self attribute A cause for. And equally, we're all conditions to expect that pain is meant to be pain is meant to be normal and that we're meant to expect that. Speaker 1 I mean, we speak to quite a few Women's Health GPS and things, and they kind of say a similar thing that in in the medical space as well. A lot of the time if you come in and you're a woman with fatigue or something like this, it's immediately outsourced. It's like, Oh well, how's work going? All these external things are probably causing your issue. Yeah, but. Speaker 2 They may be compounding, they may be adding to it, but I think a thorough investigation is really important, which is why we ask a very detailed analysis. So in our health assessment alone, we've coded over 54,000 clinical scenarios so that we're taking into consideration menstrual patterns, lifestyle factors, nutrition, all the things that might be implicating your your health overall. Speaker 1 And then you, you also mentioned that you want to change the attitude towards reproductive health, health, hormonal health in the workplace. Yeah. So what does that mean? Speaker 2 So I witnessed first hand that my albeit I have no reproductive health condition, I don't suffer with infertility. I have an ostensibly healthy reproductive system and working 16-17 hour days in a law firm. My reproductive system shut down and said no when I wanted to try and have a baby. It said now this is you eat your breakfast at 4:00 PM, you are incapable of nurturing yourself, let alone nurturing life. And so for me, the realisation is that it's not just me going through it. It is every single woman questioning and wondering if I can have a baby, should I have a baby? Do I even want to have a baby? And if so, and if, if yes to any of those, then when and how do I fit it in? I've worked really hard on my career trajectory. How do I now park that and make that sacrifice? Because the workplace is as long as there's this narrative that, you know, you just have to keep working through your fertile years, people will never feel like it is OK or safe to then just go and have a family. And that's, that's one of the reasons why I object to this narrative that just says, just freeze your eggs or just have IVF because it doesn't say, Hey, don't worry if you have family, we'll support you with that. We'll support you with the career break. We'll support you with the time you need off. We'll support you with childcare. It's just keep working and, and put it off as long as you can. And I think that has devastated consequences. Speaker 1 And what do you think is the actual change that can occur? Because you mentioned they're kind of like being more supportive around the space. But at the same time, I find I find it so difficult to imagine that companies will actually support that and create that change. And yet so, so many of, you know, my friends, like they don't, they don't want to have children. They don't. They're putting that off. And that's why we get this later, you know, people having kids later in their 30s and then the fertility issues come up and it seems like a self fulfilling cycle. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 So how I approach it within the workplace is that we've, we've been sort of having conversations with workplaces for five years, I will say maybe, maybe 4, where we're trying to let them know the cost of not managing reproductive health. So the cost of instead of one company saying we'll pay £30,000 for one person to have IVF, why don't you pay £30,000 for your whole organisation to be screened so that no one needs IVF hopefully. And I think that for me, the narrative about the needs for earlier preventative diagnostic care, you know, clinical care afterwards, this, this, this hormonal lifespan of support that you would need at every life stage, that's really important. But getting on workplaces to understand that that isn't a cost is, is really difficult. So what we did, we built a reproductive health impact calculator because if empathy doesn't get you, economics will. And the reality is there's nobody cares about anything other than their bottom line. And they can say, wow, it's fascinating. You can diagnose so many conditions. That's amazing. Really love what you're doing. Your mission is amazing. Ultimately the bottom line is impact, it's going to cost it too much. And actually it was only when we brought this impact calculator to show the cost of not dealing with this is costing your organisation more than dealing with this. Then people started to wake up and say, OK, well, maybe we need to start taking this into, into bigger hands and we need to start implementing this as a benefit. So we've we've rolled out as a benefit with a load of different corporates with one insurer and. And it's really important, it's really amazing to see the impact in the workplace. It's really great to see that sort of when a workplace supports people to say, I can check in the, it impacts absenteeism, presenteeism, turnover. People feel grateful. People get the help they need sooner. Even within our own workplace, we all, we provide all of the benefits. So we provide our, our benefits are diagnostic testing, clinical consultations with gynaecologists or fertility advisors or menopause experts or nutrition experts, plus a pelvic ultrasound. So there's a, and there's a full suite of clinical services that we provide for. But within our own workforce, we saw, we've seen first hand, there was someone who had a, discovered no symptoms by the way, but discovered that she had a 13 centimetre cyst on her ovary, which if left undetected would have had devastating consequences for her health, let alone her reproductive health. And there's been a few examples of people in their 20s who've discovered that they're in primary ovarian insufficiency, which basically means they're in menopause in their 20s. They had their egg reserve is is very low. So we've been able to sort of intervene, go through an egg freezing route where typically if they had worked anywhere else, they would have left it till their 30s and then by then it would have been too late. The Individual and Economic Cost of Delayed Diagnosis I see you mentioned quite a few conditions then I haven't even heard of some of these. Are these Are these all common conditions? Speaker 2 I think The thing is, I think primary ovarian insufficiency, correct me, it may be wrong here, but I think it's one in 100. And so that's not common. It's not insignificant. And if I thought that there's a 1% chance that I might be infertile in my 20s? Speaker 1 I'd want to know I'd. Speaker 2 Want to know and the reality is that even if it isn't completed it it you're at a varying different stages. There's so many examples of women that we've that have discovered this. Were it not for her, they would have waited as everyone does this wait and see model I I can't understand how in a world where we have data and AI and technology at our fingertips, but the solution for our health is just like just wait and see. Yeah. Speaker 1 And and we get actually quite a lot of business owners and kind of founders CEOs listening to this show. So you mentioned there the economic kind of effect of not having the utility as part or doing the diagnostics. Do you have an example or for example, if you have a woman in who's one of your employees in the workplace, if she doesn't get that diagnosis and later than line something happens, how much does that actually cost in real terms? Speaker 2 So there's, I mean the calculator allows you to input the number of employees that are in the organisation, how many are female, what is the likely percentage of them who will have a reproductive condition breaking down into the conditions like PCOS or endometriosis and and looking at the example of infertility, for example. So supposing someone doesn't check in early and therefore they don't know that they have a lower ovarian reserve and therefore they leave it later and therefore they need to go through multiple rounds of IVF, potentially unsuccessfully. The impact on that individual in terms of their absenteeism. So they're, they're at work, but they're not paying attention to anything other than the fact that they, all they're desperate to do is try to conceive and that they have to go through multiple injections and they have to go through this, you know, egg simulation process and this whole medical intervention that is distracting both them and their partner. And they have to go through that process because there wasn't an earlier intervention that might have meant an earlier success metrics. There's, there's a, the distraction of, of something like a condition like pain that impacts you that could be prevented if you had an earlier diagnosis. So even if you look at endometriosis, you could prevent someone having multiple exploratory surgeries. So the cost of to an organisation and to that person's well-being of missing work, of miss of having to go to hospital, of having to go to hundreds of appointments, having to be bounced here, there and everywhere. Even down to the economics of the, the test that we provide that you can do in your home, it's three appointments in one. If you wanted to typically go to get these tests on, on the National Health system, they won't do them. They won't do the breath of testing in any respect in a private fertility clinic. You would have to go to the clinic. You then go somewhere else for your bloods at a different date. You go back for your results to be interpreted to you. You don't actually get a full, full suite of this this clinical interpretation given to you because you're never really given that autonomy to know that you actually should not be able to understand. You should be fertility fluent. And I think that the time saving of our test being three appointments in one, you haven't left your home and you've gotten, if we've tested up to 10 different hormones as opposed to at a clinic, they might test 1, if not 2 hormones, that's it. But they will charge you 10 times as much. So thousands of pounds for those two and you've had three different appointments. So even again in the, the cost to the individual, the cost of time, time is our greatest commodity. And then if you're here, there and everywhere traipsing, because they have to be timed on the right day, you have to do the tests on the third day of your cycle. So there's a cost implication, there's a time implication and that impacts you from a personal perspective, but it impacts A workplace, it impacts economies through delayed diagnosis and, and the impact of all this, this hospital time and care and mismanagement of patients. Why Women Must Advocate for Early Hormonal Testing And how, how early in, you know, how early in your life do you kind of advocate for women to start checking in, let hormones are actually doing these tests? Speaker 2 I think that firstly, your intuition is so strong. So when we ask in the health assessment, have you ever been diagnosed with something? Yes, no, I've never been diagnosed, but I think something's up 9 times out of 10, spot on. There is something, there's a hormone out of range. There's a diagnosis that that's there that we've been able to provide. And it just goes to show that gut instinct that women, they know what their own bodies, they know when something's up. And I think that that's one of the greatest callings to suggest that you should check in if you feel like something's up, if, if you have painful periods, heavy periods, irregular periods, your, your periods are your 6th vital sign. You know, the World Health Organisation stated through periods, your 6th vital sign along with your pulse and your, your heart rate and your breathing, all of all of these different facets. Your period health is a really key indicator. So I think, but the earlier it will be is dependent on the symptoms you might notice. But I am a huge believer that we should all be tracking our egg reserve decline because our rate of individual egg reserve decline is dependent on our genetics, on our background, on our ethnicity, on our exposures. And so I think annual testing is really key from at least I would, I would go as early as sort of like 20s, early 20s and then the cadence of testing could be maybe twice a year after 35. Speaker 1 And then so you mentioned a stat and I want to get this right. So you said that closing the health gap would result in 137,000,000 women re entering employment by 2040? Speaker 2 Is that my stash? Speaker 1 I think I I think I saw something in the LinkedIn. Speaker 2 Post that's yeah, that's come from something you can't remember where. Speaker 1 So. So why is this the case? Why would why would so many women be re entering employment? Speaker 2 OK. So if you think about the fact that fertility is a huge issue, fertility and, and that the cost and the time of and the, the impact of going through a fertility journey, something like IVF is incredibly invasive physiologically, psychologically, biologically, financially, and it's on the person as well as everyone who is around them. If you can close the gender health gap by getting people earlier diagnostics, earlier healthcare, more streamlined provision of care, then you can allow people to live their lives normally. You're allowing them to say one of the examples is, is endometriosis or or PCOS where people are impacted so much in the workplace that often don't find times they feel like they aren't supported in the workplace. They feel like they need to leave because they have much time off work because if they have something that isn't diagnosed or something that isn't being treated for. But equally menopause is 1,000,000 people leave the workplace every year because of menopause. And I'll guarantee it's higher because for the most part, people are leaving because they can't cope with symptoms or they're not supported with those symptoms. And that could be permanent pose as well where it's, it's impacting you much earlier. And I think that the, if, if you're in the prime of your, you're in the prime of your mental and professional acumen, you are a subject matter expert, but you're being forced out of the workplace simply because you're unsupported or you can't cope with the work conditions around you. That has a very big cost significance to a workplace and trying to replace that level of those level of connections, that level of intellect, that level of prowess within with a professional context. So there's that turnover aspect, there's the aspect absentee absenteeism aspect and the presenteeism aspect where someone is at work and they're typing, but they're really not, they're not really doing anything. And so the combined forces of absenteeism, presenteeism and turnover really mean that if you're supporting this and diagnosing things or treating things much earlier and finding a solution for people much earlier, the re entry into the workplace is much greater. Speaker 1 Yeah. And I think there's a, there's maybe a bit of a thought process, which is that there's, there's no solution, you know that there's that you just have to leave, You're dealing with these issues that there's no way that, you know, we can support women or the company can support women. Educating Workplaces and Addressing the Gender Health Gap What is like the solution there? How do you support women through these changes? Speaker 2 The thing that is really important and what we do within workplaces is educate. So we run CBD accredited educational seminars because part of the whole issue is the lack of awareness and the lack of understanding. And it is not from, not just from the male counterpart perspective or managerial perspective, it is from the personal perspective of, of so many people. It's always amazes me how intelligent so many women are and yet they are completely blinded to their own reproductive Physiology and anatomy and the basic functions of their body. So we do, we do really intensive education seminars, which are very well received. And I think that it's the men in the workforce are oftentimes the ones who who learn the most. But that's a really key feature to to understand how to recognise symptoms, how to cope with them, how to manage them from the top, from top down. But equally that sort of having a streamlined solution. If someone has a condition and is bound, bandied around by a healthcare system that doesn't prioritise their health or doesn't have the adequate solutions or clinical care to prioritise their health, then someone taking nine years to get a diagnosis or or 4 to 4 to 8 years for BCOS, that's a huge burden on the individual, That's a huge burden on the workplace. So I think that streamlined clinical care, giving someone answers in days, not years, makes a huge difference to the workplace. And also then providing the next steps. Because it's all very fine giving someone a diagnosis, but you need to be able to give them the next steps. You need to be able to say well now what do you do with the diagnosis? What do you do with that information? And that's why we've worked so hard to put together the full suite of clinical services, the full suite of solutions irrespective of of someone's outcome, whether someone is has hormonal acne or someone has had multiple baby loss, that solution sort of for next care and next steps is it has to be there. Speaker 1 And then on the front of kind of education and going back to the basics, so I've mentioned the gender health gap, you've mentioned it. What is the gender health gap? Speaker 2 So the gender health gap is the fundamental and systemic differences between healthcare solutions and outcomes and diagnosis times between men and women. It is when a woman presents at hospital and a man presents at hospital what their solutions and options provided to them are going to be. Will they be taken seriously? Will they be turned away? Will they be told it's anxiety or sleep deprivation? More often than not, a woman will be told that it is anxiety or, or it is or the OR sleep deprivation, then it is something serious or more sinister. And part of the reason for that is that it's for years the data that has been aggra aggregated in respect of diagnostics and information to to gain a solution or gain a diagnosis for someone has been taken on a Caucasian male. And so it doesn't take into consideration the differentials of body dimensions of of ethnicities, of genetics. It is very much this is the cookie cutter, the textbook definition of a condition is this plus this plus this, even though for a woman it could be completely different. And so the gender gap relates to the fact that there are over 700 diseases and conditions diagnosed later for women than men. Speaker 1 Yeah. And then bringing that really back down to a kind of base level. So what does that mean, for example, for, you know, a woman, Sally, late 20s, what does that mean for her? So she's going through, you know, the healthcare system, Maybe she's going to go, something's wrong. She's going to go get a diagnosis. What does that mean? Speaker 2 I think the big, the greatest examples that we see and the things that we hear the most often is that women feel gasless. They're told the pain is in their head, the pain is normal, they are too emotional, too hormonal that they are, that it's meant to be part of their Physiology as a woman. And I think that the comparison then for a a male counterpart will be that they are taken more seriously, that they are not questioned with the with their authority is not questioned. If they say that they have something, they're generally believed. Whereas women are told that they need to speak to someone, that they need psychiatric help, that they need to that they basically are are overreacting. And I if it's one of the reasons why we have this phrase, you're not overreacting because you're our symptoms are real, our pain is valid, are we deserve to be listened to? Hertility's Comprehensive Scope and Deirdre's Entrepreneurial Journey And it shouldn't be that the clinical default is to say you're probably fine. Speaker 1 And so then moving on to Hotility, So what is the full scope of everything that Hotility does because we mentioned fertility, reproductive health, kind of menopause, hormonal health? Speaker 2 Fertility was built out of a need for personalised preventative healthcare across a woman's hormonal lifespan. So serving women at every stage of their hormonal journey. And that changes as we as we grow older, from gynaecological conditions to period health, to pre pregnancy and fertility, Pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, that's your whole life. And so instead of viewing our health in single life stages, fertility and menopause, we wanted to be able to bridge the gap to say women deserve accessible personalised healthcare across every life stage, irrespective of what their life goals are, irrespective of family planning goals. Our hormonal health is something that should be taken seriously. And so her tility was built to be able to provide diagnostic solutions with real clinical acumen for individual women, personalising it to them, taking listening to them, listening to their needs, listening to their desires, listening to their medical history and being able to then diagnose them for over 18 different conditions within one week with with 99% accuracy. But then also provide a full suite of clinical services, online consultations, nutritionists, menopause experts, you name it, we've got we've got a gynaecologist or an endocrine specialist to be able to serve that woman irrespective of her life journey. Speaker 1 And then for you personally, so you came from a legal background. So when you first started her, says he how was that journey and did you did you always know that you wanted to end up in healthcare? How did you end up coming into the entrepreneurship world going directly from? Speaker 2 I did a master's in medical law because I thought if I'm not going to be a doctor, I'm going to defend doctors. I have a, you know, family of doctors and parents of doctors. And I think that that there's always been an interest of mine. Clinical negligence is quite dark though. I did that for a good few years and then realised that it's just not where I want to be because it's not really effectively helping people. So I, I think I always wanted to have always wanted to be in healthcare in some capacity. I didn't think that I would be in it in this capacity. I, I never sought to start my own company. I, I would never put myself in this position. I always thought I would be a lawyer and, and down to the end. And I, and I still AM. And I think it's probably the greatest attribute you can have as a founder is also having that sort of legal background. It's incredibly helpful. Speaker 1 And what has been the most beneficial thing, like what have been the skills from your legal background they've carried through that have helped the most with utility? Speaker 2 Venture capital is complex, corporate law is complex, commercial law is complex, and I think that having an subject matter expertise in each of those facets is really helpful when it comes to scaling, raising money, and knowing what's right for the company. Speaker 1 Yeah. And then what? What would you say with the Did you find it challenging nonetheless, going from corporate law to suddenly being in the world of kind of entrepreneurship and. Speaker 2 No, I actually think that that sort of almost military like training to work 16-17 hour days, work weekends work no matter what, that is the best possible preparation you could have for a start up. Because I think when people say I'm going to, I think I'm going to go out in my own have a start up. I'm I'm always like, you sure, you sure you want to do that? You do love it because unless you absolutely love it, you're not going to survive. I met a founder who was like, I've been trying to raise money for nine months. I'm so over it. And I was like, honey, you're in the wrong game. Already over it. Navigating Regulations, Team Building, and Funding Challenges So then when when you were starting off, what, what were kind of the most challenging things that you did go through? Speaker 2 Think navigating all of the regulations that are required, navigating them not just once for what was then Europe, which included the UK, but then having to navigate them then through Brexit. So we are the most regulated company in this space. It's almost like we wear it as our badge of honour that we, we've gone PhD level on our, on our startup that we, there was one thing that I'd never wanted to be any question around, which was our regulatory background. That we had always had the upper echelon of every form of regulatory and compliance and quality control that was, that could be existing within, within a company alongside clinical acumen. So for, for us navigating the regulatory world, then making sure that it is constantly up to date, making sure data is secure. It's a, it's a minefield and it's quite scary, but you cannot mess it up. You cannot ever risk having any issue with your regulatory capacity or your regulatory acumen or your data protection. It has to be bulletproof. And so that from the beginning has been a real core mission and objective of ours is to make sure that that is bulletproof. Speaker 1 And how did you create the team? Because it's so you have two other Co founders. How did you know that they they were the right two people for you to work with? Speaker 2 I didn't exactly pick my twin sister. We kind of found each other. Speaker 1 We picked her as a Co founder. Speaker 2 I think she picked me actually. We I'm quite bullish and I really I felt like I pushed her into this in lots of ways and lots of times. And and same with Natalie. Natalie is kind of one of these people who is really good at the parts that we are not good at. You know, the things like setting up to begin with, setting up bank accounts, dealing with labs and logistics. And you know, all of those parts are really important. So it works really well when your twin sister is your Co founder, you have each other's back no matter what. And we also have such separate as skill lanes that we cross into each other's lanes. We don't bought heads. I know that she is the very best at what she does and she knows the same about me in terms of and that level of trust that we have and that level of ability to just let someone run in their own lane is really powerful. And I think Natalie is a real mediator. She works really well with both of us and which is quite rare if you're going to have identical twin sisters. Everyone thinks that it'd be really hard to be the other guy. And actually she sides with one of one or other of us and we've kind of a three out of or a one or two out of three rule where kind of we veto. Speaker 1 And then, I mean, you've nearly had seven years of running her to Lizzie. How what do you think that what do you know now that you would have kind of wanted to have known, you know, those seven years ago? Speaker 2 I would, I suppose because of my venture capital background, I thought the be all and end all was getting institutional investment. If I could go back, I would have avoided that for as long as possible. I would have just gotten grants, grant funding and I would have applied for as many as possible. I think that that's one of the things that I look back on and say that that would have been a really a much more beneficial route. I think the other things are just trusting the understanding of things like tech and products. There's just worlds you couldn't possibly understand if you've never dealt with them. And I, I think I was quite naive with them to begin with and in some things feeling like we didn't need certain facets of the business, probably because I just didn't understand them and and I was wrong with that. Speaker 1 And why do you say, why do you say the point about the grants? Speaker 2 Because grant money is free money, it's non dilutive and I think that it comes with not only a non dilutive energy element, but it also comes with a level of kudos because it's it's quite difficult. Now we've applied for grants and we've gotten many grants, but there were so many more kind of out there for the taking instead of constantly feasting on a punitive money, which is venture money. Speaker 1 And then how did you know, because I, so you, you would have seen the, you know, the huge market gap with the woman's health and all these things going wrong. The Driving Force: Why Hertility's Mission Transcends Business But how did you know this was a right, the right business idea? Because I think it sounds like you kind of pushed your sister into this and this was very much initiated with yourself. Speaker 2 I have never had any question in my mind ever about how needed this is. I've never doubted about whether or not we should do it. I've never wavered for even a minute. I've said, my God, this is tough. I've cried my eyes out, I've screamed and shouted and been angry. But I've never once questioned whether it was a good idea. I never once thought, are we doing the right thing because it is so fundamentally needed that more often people say, surely this is already exists. Then people say, should this even exist? So I think that that that for me is the the one sort of North Star I have is that people need this. Wherever we go, we hear from women to say how grateful they are or how thankful they are or how happy they are that we existed or how much they wished we existed when they were have trying to have children or when they were going through multiple rounds of IVF or when they were struggling to conceive. So yeah, it's it's, it's just needed. Speaker 1 And then you mentioned the doubts that what were the scariest moments of the the doubts that you did have? What were the kind of most challenging, maybe personal moments that over the past nearly seven years? Speaker 2 So I have a four year old and a five year old. Well, I never had the luxury of maternity leave because and and same with with Helen who's, who's got two children as well. We, when you have your own company, you can't stop And when you're trying to get to the moon as quickly as you can, you can't stop and fill up the petrol tank. You know, and I think that that's part of the, part of the reason why I always say that fertility is, is like woven into my inner fabric and that if someone pulls a thread, it unravels me. It isn't just, oh, this is a company, this is, this is my other baby. This is something that when you, you know, at the time I have, I remember you saying, like, I have a one year old, a 2 year old and a three-year old company. And it's really hard. It's really exhausting to be able to to try and work through regulations, to work through fundraising through, to work through growing a company, growing a team, but also growing a human being and then feeding that baby and through the night and doing every work feed. And one of those things that people always say when you have a baby is like nap when they nap. And I would I every time I would think, I wish I could now I wish I could do, but instead it would be when they slept, I worked and it was this constant, you know, almost a symbiotic relationship that that, you know, you have to be able to keep them with you and, and, and that you want that so much, but you're also so embedded in this need to help people to do the thing you've just done. You know, that that makes it more real. That's me. I said, no one should ever miss out on this. No one should ever miss the opportunity to do this. If they want to. And so that's the kind of one of the hardest challenges is that divide of personal care, non existent baby care and then company care. It's it's really hard to balance it out. And you know, oftentimes I remember a friend of mine saying to me, DD, how close to burnout are you? And I was like, dust ashes, but you, but you can't set fire to ashes. So that was the kind of my mantra is like, you know, with no one's glorifying burnout these days, but it exists and it's unavoidable in startup culture. It's unavoidable. Speaker 1 So what's the, what's the mindset? What's the background that I need to understand about you to see how you got to this stage where you, because this is something like I, I thought a lot of times my, I love my business so much. And I thought a lot of times I can't have children until like, this gets to a point where it's self-sufficient and everything's going on but you. Speaker 2 Can, and that's the biggest misconception, is that it's either or and that's not to say you can have both and it will be easy No, we have to choose your heart and I think one of the things that I even realised with having my second very close to my first, there's only 16 months between them, is that having a baby, two babies, 2 under 2 is hard. Going through infertility is harder. Choose your heart and choosing the heart is one of the biggest things that women need to recognise is that it isn't going to be easy and pick one and then it'll be easy or pick one and then you'll be successful. Both are going to be hard, one may be harder and I think choosing your heart is the biggest thing you need to recognise. You have a business, you want to run it, but you also want to have a family. And it shouldn't come that you get to your point in your mid 40s and you say, God, I wish I'd just taken a break. I wish I'd just had a baby. I wish I'd just taken a step away and said, I can do both. Not at 110% because something will something will impact you, you know, but oftentimes I say that we've built fertility to the to the stage that it's at because of having children, not in not in spite of them. Sure, we might be doing different things, but our happiness levels would be completely different, our objectives would be completely different. It's it's that prioritisation of what is really important in life. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's such an interesting point because I think we hear, I hear the narrative really, really often. I'll focus on your career and then once your career is good and you've got this to like a certain point, that's when you go and you can have the children. Then you take the time fully off and it doesn't. Was that ever a thought process for you or were you always set like this? The. Speaker 2 Biggest misconception is that you can just wait. And I think that that's part of the biggest key in emancipating women to check in. It kind of gives you an at least an idea to say, well, I know where my egg reserve is. I know where I stand from a reproductive health standpoint. I know how much time I ostensibly may have roughly. And that I think is one of the biggest key things is check in so that you know, you know, don't leave it to guesswork. Don't assume that you're not one in six. Don't assume that you're not going to be implicated somehow. Speaker 1 And then you mentioned burnout and kind of this keeping the motivation going and all these things. What do you think because and maybe I, I can tell what you answer people, what do you think is your, has been your motivation? How have you maintained such a strong kind of grip on carrying on and being able to manage so many things? Speaker 2 I think that what we're doing transcends so much. Women have been neglected for generations. They have been denied access to information about their bodies. They have been told certain things about their body that simply do not exist. And I think the importance of educating women, the importance for of helping women, the importance of giving them real information that is this really driving force. But ultimately for me and I, I know so many women don't want to have children. For me, having two children is the greatest gift I was ever given. No amount of career success will ever match the joy that I get from those little arms going around my neck or the little hand on my face in the night. There's nothing that could surpass that. And oftentimes I think that this is growing narrative to say, I don't want to have children. That's fine. That that applies to so many people. They they may not want children, but for some people, I think that it's like saying I never want to listen to music again. But then you hear this song and you want to dance, and that music is the thing that takes over your whole body. That is for me, what it is like to say I don't want to have children. But you've never heard the song, you've never heard the music, and you don't know how it's going to make you dance or sing. And so for to deny that possibility to people by a system that neglects them is something that I want to see overcome. I I don't want anyone to not dance when they could dance. And there's a choice You can, you can choose to not listen to music. That's perfect. But I think that if you have the ability to help your own health and provide solutions for generations to come, then that is something I will work until I am dust. Uncovering the Lack of Hormonal Health Awareness & Disruptors And how has the business, has the business change your perspective on, I guess, life, home life? I mean, what's the biggest perspective shift that you've had since founding utility? Speaker 2 I think because I come from a very educated background, a very medical background, my assumption levels on people's knowledge or their innate knowledge about themselves is is is flawed. People actually have very little understanding about their own biology, about their own systems. And I think for me that since starting fertility, I think the growing awareness, like we did a an assessment with Google and they told us the number one search term in relation to fertility isn't what is adenomyosis, It isn't what is this endometriosis, It is what is fertility. That will tell you that's the number one search term that people have is what is fertility. And so for me, the recognization of the lack of awareness is a huge part, but equally the prevalence of conditions, the things that are impacting us, the things that impact our hormones, the, you know, the endocrine disrupting chemicals, it's the, the acrylic nails or the candles or the cosmetics. It's all of that that surround us that impacts our, our hormonal system. And I think that it's had a very big impact in how I live my life, the food I eat, the things I sort of put my, in my home, the things I wash my clothes with, the clothes that I wear and the fabrics, All of it has an impact on your endocrine system. And so I suppose since starting, I've gained my own awareness. Helen is the greatest teacher. She, you know, she's a, she's a tenured professor. And so having that your own twin sister be a professor is, is amazing because she has taught me so much. You know, we do lots of education seminars and, and webinars. And I listen to her webinars as if I'm a student. I listen and I learn something new every time. So, you know, I encourage people to go and listen to those because if I've been listening to her since in usual then and I'm learning things still, then then people that people have a lot to learn. Speaker 1 So the, the acrylic nails, the that's a really shocking 1. So things like this will have an impact on your on your hormones, in your fertility. Yeah, acrylic nails making fertile. Speaker 2 No, no, no. They have an impact on your endocrine system. So there are what's called endocrine disrupting chemicals, which are your creams, your cosmetics, your candles. And this is, this is something I've learned from Helen is and, and those are the things that are going to impact your, your endocrine system, your hormones. Speaker 1 I've never. Speaker 2 There's been a latest paper based on on acrylic nails so that don't do it. The Dystopian Reality: Censorship of Women's Health Content Online So how so? How are you getting this information out to more people? Like how are you spreading that awareness? Speaker 2 It's a real frustration that we have because we try and educate people through where they are. People are don't doom scrolling. We try and get to people's feeds, we try and do educational seminars, we put educational content on line, we go to businesses and workplaces and give seminars and and education sessions. And we also have a full blog. So we have knowledge centre that we filled and we've got a full old female research team. So we're constantly talking the talk to educate people and, and getting people to to become fertility fluent to get that, get them to educate themselves. But we're consistently seeing blocks. So there was a recent webinar that we tried to do about PCOS and someone said that they tried to join the webinar but Sky had blocked them from watching it because they thought it was inappropriate content or adult content, even though she was a 31 year old woman that had blocked adult content. So this is a tenured professor at a leading university giving an educational webinar about polycystic ovary syndrome, which impacts one in ten women. And yet it's deemed to be sensitive or inappropriate adult content that is censored even by the sort of the channels that was put through. So there's an growing censorship and block whether it's through through any medium, but particularly through Meta and now LinkedIn and Google where Women's Health is had has had a huge shutdown into whether it's by shadow banning or overt censorship. Speaker 1 And why do you think that is? Speaker 2 I have my theories about presidential people that exist that that might be contributing somehow. I have. Speaker 1 But what would be the intention there? Speaker 2 There's something very sinister happening when we're looking to deny 50% of the planet information about their bodies when a woman's body can be viewed online only when it is sexualized, That you can view the most graphic pornographic content about a woman, but you cannot view anatomically correct information about her reproductive health or about her overall health. There's a really dark movement that is that is some sort of dystopian nightmare that is a reality that is hitting our technology systems and the things that we all rely on that is blocking information. I don't know why it's there. I don't know why it is seen to be appropriate to block this information because no one is protected by this, especially when we should be looking to protect our children online. We should be looking to protect women from being exploited online. And yet the focus is on let's look to what protect women from themselves, protect women from the education that they so vitally need. Speaker 1 Cuz this is the most confusing thing as well because you look where the money is right? And the meta. What do they gain from blocking an ad? They don't gain anything. Speaker 2 They lose revenue. Speaker 1 Exactly. Speaker 2 They lose revenue. It is honestly economically reckless to allow this level of censorship because you're blocking businesses from thriving. You're blocking women from access to information. So if there's currently 760,000 women on wait lists in the UK to see a gynaecologist, and you can guarantee there's double that who actually need to see someone but they've been turned away and told that their pain is normal or that it's not important or that it's in their head. There's be twice as many people who actually need to see healthcare professional, and yet that bottleneck in the system has downstream input impacts and implications. The healthcare system is so overstretched and overburdened that it's costing trillions just by not dealing with healthcare issues earlier in a preventative, personalised way. By not providing the solution we have, we calculated that we could save global authorities between 8:00 and 10:00 trillion simply by inputting our diagnostic solution and clinical pathways 8 to 10 trillion. And yet the McKinsey report is, oh, it's about it's about 1 trillion. No, it's 10X that because of all of the implicating factors of your overall health, not just fertility. And so by blocking these channels, I don't see what the value is. I don't see how we're protecting women. I don't see how they're protecting themselves. I think part of the biggest reason for this blanket shutdown was that the period tracking app Flow Flow Health had a massive data breach and they sold Women's Health and period information to multiple organisations and each of these organisations then got a slap on the wrist, 56 million in fines and Matter got a big fine. And it's like Matter said, Oh, no, someone had a dirty glass, glass of water. We should shut the entire water system off. And like, they shut the water system off and people said, but we need to flush toilets, but we need to have hospitals run. And they went, no, let's lock that door. We've shut that pipe off. Without the foresight to think because one dirty company sold women's information that we should then close off the information for all Women's Health companies. You know we're paying the wrath. Of a massive fuck up by one company by flow and everyone is now implicated that's my view. My theory is that they decided they don't want to know the slap on the wrist. They don't want to be, they don't don't want to risk it. So it doesn't matter how clinically validated you are that we've done 22 clinical trials that we've done over that. We've done every kind of regulatory standpoint to protect people and protect women and protect our users. They've they've turned off the water supply and. Speaker 1 What are the types of things that are being censored? Speaker 2 Everything. The word fertility, the word endometrial, it adds. Speaker 1 So if you say facility, it's blocked, it's blocked. Speaker 2 Well, we had, we had one story of a woman who just tells about how she took 10 years to get a diagnosis that she assumed that her pain was so severe that childbirth was the same as her monthly pain. And she just thought that that was normal. It was only when she talked to her friends that she realised actually that's that's not normal that it didn't wasn't selling, it wasn't advocating for our services, it wasn't even mentioning her till it was just her storytelling. Speaker 1 It was a video of her saying this. Speaker 2 And Matt removed it and said it was too political. Speaker 1 And do you see the same censorship for Men's Health, Men's Fertility? Speaker 2 No, you can have the most crude and crass and vile advertising when it comes to men's health. Got moobs? There's an advert of a man literally circling his nipple. Can you imagine? You put a woman's nipple online and it's fine. It's got crazy. Could be your hormones but the the equivalent of of symptoms for for some reproductive health conditions for a woman is is blocked and deemed inappropriate. Similarly, all manner of adverts in relation to erectile dysfunction fly freely. You can and you can access, you know, you, you, a man can access a woman's only fans, you know it. Open up his Instagram and it's someone's legs akimbo with someone's bent over something. And that's absolutely fine. But when it comes to something like a diagnosable condition or even just awareness about something that impacts so much of the planet, especially when the falling birth rates are so severe, we're on the third year in a row with the UK's birth rates are the lowest on record. Speaker 1 And I really want to drive this drive this point in. So what are the specific? Are there any other ads or any other examples that you can give of the specific situations in which your content or ads have been blocked? Speaker 2 Our ads are always very tasteful, they're always quite witty. We try and get people to see the relatable side of their health without it being sort of something that makes them feel uncomfortable. So we say give yourself a standing ovulation or public cervix announcement and it's oftentimes armed with something that says knowledge is power. You know, you should learning about your reproductive health might impact your overall health. It is very subtle key information that encourages people to learn about their own reproductive health or learn about their hormones. All of that is blocked. We we don't even have the opportunity to to test things anymore. Anything even in terms of storytelling about trying to warn people about the 10 years that they could avoid in in misdiagnosis, that is all blocked. And then comparable examples for male health fly freely through. So it, it could be a picture of a floppy aubergine. It could be a picture of it could be something saying often times actually even in terms of testing it's relating, it's always relating to sex like your hormones, the only thing that matters with your hormones. Whereas if you can't get it up or if you're a partner has doesn't want to have sex with you, let alone the conditions that might impact your overall health, mean you die earlier, mean you have multiple surgeries. You know, there's there's a real misalignment between what is allowed versus what isn't allowed. And it seems to be if they're going to block information on healthcare, if they're going to say we don't want healthcare online, then there shouldn't be a permissive allowance for most of the non clinical healthcare content creators that exist out there spreading theories that it should be that, OK, if you want to produce content in relation to healthcare, show us your healthcare certificate, show us your regulations. So that's what we're advocating for is to say we understand that there should be some safety around the content that is delivered, but that safety should be met by the fact that you have world leading experts delivering it and that you have the regulatory capacity to showcase that you are legitimate rather than countless people who are completely illegitimate content health creators or the countless information that is unverified. Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, we, so we work with actually quite a lot of clinicians and doctors, helping them, you know, create content, build out thought leadership online. And that's exactly the problem. A lot of them are really scared because of the regulation boards and what they're allowed to say, what they're not allowed to say. And this is the craziest contradiction that we always see, because then you have some influencer who is promoting lemon water to fix all of your problems and there's zero regulation, which is insane. Speaker 2 It's there's something not working in the corporate governance, on the policy application within these organisations and I think that that's something that needs to be tackled because if you're going to say you can't provide health advice online, it needs to be a blanket approach for everyone. It cannot be that it is only in relation TO1 sex. Speaker 1 I mean, it feels quite dystopian actually, hearing how how much censorship, how much are being censored and how much you've had to go through. It's kind of feels like one of these things that in 10 years everyone's going to look back and just think this, this is insane. Speaker 2 Everyone looks at this and says it's insane now, and yet we don't seem to be able to penetrate the powers that be because you never speak to the people who make the decision. And so like even the account managers, yeah, it's out of their control. And then when you look to have information, so will point us, what are the guidelines? What are the policies? How do we fit within this, this framework that has been constructed? But no one knows what the framework even looks like. It's this very nebulous, ethereal concept that doesn't even allow you to navigate it. It's just the door is closed. Speaker 1 So have you ever received a public response or any explanation for why you're getting banned in certain other ads, for example for Men's Health or not? Speaker 2 No explanation as to why we are and they aren't. No clarity, no transparency. It is completely occluded. How Hertility Navigates and Fights Women's Health Censorship And that's the frustrating thing is because I, you know, I want to work to a solution. If there's a problem, I want to navigate it. If the door is closed, let's borrow. If the, if the windows are closed, let's find another way around. Let's get down that chimney. But it is just like the buildings on fire don't go near it. That's, that's the kind of the approach. And I think that that is so crazy to think that there are businesses literally just going out of going out of business. There are companies going out of business simply because they can't reach people. Speaker 1 Yeah. And so and so beyond even just, you know, the awareness from a business perspective that's debilitating. So how have you been able to, because you mentioned there, you know, if the windows are closed go round, how have you been able to actually go around these things and still, you know, create business, find customers, spread awareness? Speaker 2 It's really hard. It's, it's really hard to reach people now because that's where they are. They're online. So, you know, we can do, we can do webinars and seminars and we can try and do billboard campaigns, but you, you just can't be certain that they're your audience, that you're reaching the right people. So it's a constant battle for us. And I think it's something that it's only going to become harder. And it's something that I've been doing an awful lot of research, even as a lawyer in to try and figure out how do we navigate this? How do we overcome this big door being shut in our face? And I think there's a part of it that says This is why we need to be speaking out loud online, is why we need to be imploring people to speak out, people to reshare, people to talk about this, to try and say this is nonsensical. This is if you're not just doing it for yourselves, do it for your daughters, do it for your mother, your sisters, your aunts, your wife, your spouse, whoever it is in your life. It is so important that this is seen as an economic issue that impacts everyone. This isn't Women's Health issues. This isn't girls problems. This is a huge, huge economic crisis that we're facing if it isn't dealt with. Speaker 1 As if anybody listening to this who does want to help or at least in some way, you know, spread the message or get past this, what, what can I actually physically do? Speaker 2 Join the reproductive revolution. I think follow following us, you know, supporting things, you know, the talking about us, bringing us into your workplace, asking, asking your HR leaders about seminars that that can be done or benefits that can we can provide. You know, if we can't get to people to to try and use our services or or educate themselves, then going into workplaces is one of the greatest ways because that's where women are. That's where they are for this for their reproductive lifespan. And I think go to their workplace, advocate for this as being a benefit within their workplace. It's one of the greatest things and supporting things on online, speaking up about it. Speaker 1 And then is this an issue that you've, I assume it's an issue that you've actually faced since day one? Speaker 2 So this has been an issue for there's articles spanning back over four years on this. It's not something that we saw a real. So it's, you know, we always wondered why we never saw morality for some of our campaigns that they were so brilliant that we just we never saw that reach which we would have expected. And now I know that that shadow banning was has been existent for for a very long time. But particularly from February 14th, we saw that there was a meta as a distinct rule change we got, we got sucked over. And that since February 14th is when we've really noticed the difference between traffic and reach and awareness because it was that kind of shutting the top off. Life-Changing Stories: Hertility's Impact on Women's Lives And so at the at the really start, how how did you how are you finding you actually your first customers curiosity? Speaker 2 I think online has always been a really big one for us through through social media. It's it's where people are. It's kind of Instagram and and LinkedIn. We've we've struggled with TikTok because the content that we have, it's not click baisy, it's not goofy or quick. It is more serious. It has integrity, it has weights and you don't quick. You don't really get that three nanoseconds of attention for someone that you would do what people seek on TikTok. Speaker 1 You know, actually, interestingly, we had, we worked with a mental specialist at one point. And this is when we kind of first also saw how big of an issue the woman's health space and lack of information was. Because we released one video of her speaking on PMDD and it hit 5 million views. And every single comment was women saying, I never even knew that this was a condition. So that completely speaks to your entire point, which is that. And they were asking where do I get help? I thought there was something wrong with me. And it's all of these things. These comments start coming through and you start thinking this is real people at the other side that I've lived with this for their entire life and have never even known. Yeah. And that is debilitating. Yeah. What are some of the kind of stories that you've had and the people that you've worked through the how much their life has been changed as a result of fertility? Speaker 2 One of my favourite is some some of the messages that we received. So one of them is fertility of the reason I'm holding my baby boy or fertility of the reason that I have my little girl. Like if they're the kind of things that make you stop in your tracks and say that there is life created as a result of some solution that we've been able to provide someone. Because that to me is the great, greatest. You know, KPI is the life metric that people can say I have AI, have an, I have another form of life because of this, this journey I took. But a lot of the stories, I think in relation to that ability to earlier diagnose a catch primary ovarian insufficiency or catch something that would have been truly devastating. Those are the ones where, you know, the they flew very close to the sun and they didn't know it. So I think the stories for me that sit home are the ones where we have heard of the dehatchling at the end of it, and the ones that someone has gotten something that we've been able to intervene, which they wouldn't have had any ability to intervene on. The Power of a Fully Female Leadership Team at Hertility And on a slightly different, SO interestingly, you so you run your business with your your Co founder is your twin sister and another person. So how have you, how have you found that? You mentioned that you actually work very well together. Did you? And you also mentioned that you actually didn't think that you'd go into entrepreneurship and things how when you first started utility, did you know that you would be good at working together? Like how was the initial first few years? Speaker 2 To begin with, because I was so busy in Cooley, my twin sister was trying to get my attention. One of the reasons why we, I, I, I realised that the need I needed to change. But she's trying to get my attention because she was trying to tell me she was pregnant. So when we started, she was, she was pregnant and I was too busy. I didn't make time for her. I was always like outside the firm being like, oh, how long is this going to take? And she didn't tell me for a very long time simply because she, I didn't give her the time and it was too big a deal to do say, saying something in passing outside, standing outside a law firm. And so we've never, we've always been in such different fields. We've never had to work together. But there is a synchronicity when you have a twin in terms of your expectations, your work ethic, your belief system that really guides and navigates us. And I think that for us, A, the kind of integrity and the reputation of ourselves as well as our company was one of the strongest things to drive for, drive forward with sort of Clinical Excellence and scientific discovery. I always knew from the beginning, if I do this, it has to be the best thing I've ever done. There's no like, let's give it a go. There's no, let's see, let's try, let's assess. I think for me, for from the very beginning, the minute I walked out the doors, doors of a law firm, I said this is, I'm giving this everything I have. There is no 100%. It is 125 all the way. And that's it. And I think that we've, we've all had different realities in terms of what what this company would look like. Yeah. But I definitely think that we've, you know, one of our things that we say is that we're, we're headed to the moon on a tampon shaped rocket. And if you get rocket ship sick, don't get in because we're going up there. And it is, it's one of the things that we are, we're really driven. And I think that that works well. You unless you have someone, unless you, if you have a mismatch of, of drive or ambition, it doesn't work. Everyone has to want to succeed. Speaker 1 And have you had times where it has been difficult? Because I think 3 Co founders as well people say like even you add 1 code parounder and the situation becomes pretty hard. Have you had times where it's been difficult to have three? Speaker 2 The three of us work really well. We just work in such a great way and I think that Natalie contributes something that is a completely different element and angle to what I contribute to what Helen contributes. And the three of us form this perfect triangle. And you know, it's always going to be hard. There's always going to be times where you know, you get sick or you, you know, have a caesarean section and you can't walk. You have things that impact you so much. Having two other Co founders who say got this at times it's, it's, it's a blessing. I often think that if someone is a single founder, it's all on them. There's no bowing out for one day. There's no, you know, I need AI, need to go to the hospital, go to the doctor, look after my children. It's, it's, it's all on you. So actually having the balance of the three of us, we always joke that the three of us are The Powerpuff Girls. So we have the three Powerpuff. We've got our WhatsApp chat of Powerpuffs and I think that is a great blessing having the three of us. Speaker 1 And you're also you're fully female leadership team. So what would you say is your what are like the main benefits or what are the main kind of superpowers that you have as a fully female I? Speaker 2 Mean who run the world girls, right. So we've actually got a primarily female team. It's one of the the only company that probably needs more men in US. Never. I think that it's for what we are building, for what we are solving for. Having a female leadership team is really important. I think that it's we are our mission encapsulated. We are the mothers of our movement. We are, we are so heavily behind this. From every personal perspective, you could imagine that being an all female leadership team. There was never any doubt. There was never any anyone who's ever come along who's come in that way in that direction anyway. There's no one was never an option to have another have a male leadership team. Thank You & How to Support Women's Health Advocacy So Deirdre, is there anything that we haven't spoken about today that you think still needs some light shed on it? Speaker 2 I don't know. What do you think? I think. Speaker 1 We've covered a lot. Speaker 2 We've covered a lot, we've covered a lot, but my voice has been a bit janky, sorry. Speaker 1 But Deirdre, thank you so much for coming on. You're such an inspiration. I didn't even know as well from the from the angle of even speaking about how you manage this business whilst you had your children and they're still growing up and you're still going so strong and spreading the message and getting through all of these censorship issues. I mean, founding a business is hard enough. And then add on top of it everything else that you're having to deal with. That's insane. And hostility, I mean, the space that hostility is at now is so, so incredible and so impressive. Thank you so much. Speaker 2 Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Speaker 3 Thank you for watching. Good morning, Harley Street. Speaker 1 If you are a clinician looking to build your thought leadership, check us out on LinkedIn, Dash, Angelova, and Martini Sue. 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