The Bible over LGBT Relationships

You're listening all things true. I'm your host Cody B on today is the second part of the series I've done with James folks last week we talked about his life and where he was and what God pulled him out of and on this episode it's it's scripture heavy we get into the mean potatoes of what does the Bible say about LGBT about homosexuality and the homosexual lifestyle what are verses we use as Christians inappropriately what are verses we can use more appropriately What does God's word actually say in these passages? James did a lot of study for this episode this this was a fun episode to do just because I love You know, it's it's a lot of technical, you know, I I like to use the word this is how the this is how the sausages made the phrases This is what real Crinding Bible study looks like, you know, but James did a lot of work and put a lot a lot of hard effort into this So I hope you enjoyed the episode You're listening all things true. I'm your host Cody B today. We have James folks back in the studio in my office in the for my podcast and You know, we we hit a lot on that first episode I think the episode I think after was edited when an hour and 15 minutes And we didn't even get to oh, you know, we would did some text, but we didn't get to a lot of text And so I you know, I wanted to have James back in and We actually sit down and and have a moment where We get into the meat and the potatoes of what scripture says, you know scripture is our God It is God's word, you know, I tell people all the time when I when I have to talk about this in class When when Paul writes the Timothy and says that it is that it is inspired. He's using the word God breed there It is the breath and voice of God in our hands. Amen And so what what does the scripture say? What are the texts? What are the arguments against the text or the arguments that people used to explain away the text And we're going to talk about a lot about that in this in this podcast today. So a buckle up It should be good when James. I'm glad you're back. Thanks. I appreciate the invite to come back and I've really been looking forward to this one Well, very good. Um, so what passage do you want to start out with? I Want to start with Genesis. Let's go. Yeah. All right. So the scripture I found and I'm going to tell our audience why you're flipping there It's you know, there's going to be a lot of I'm using you know, I've got three books out He has a book. He has a Bible. He has notes. We have my computer up with with verses that we're looking at this is going to be You know, this is how the sausage is made, right? This is how you find things in scripture. You open the word You get out your your pad and your pen you go through it and you dissect it and ask yourself the act of questions as you go through Go ahead James. What we're we're out of Genesis. I'm in 19 It's a excuse me Genesis 19 5 through 9 Yeah, what's the context the context is that the two angels of God have come to Sodom to find a lot to bring him out. I believe this is just after Abraham and Abraham and God were walking and and and he was trying to I don't know what the word is, but Abraham was trying to Yes, you know Abraham the angel excuse me God the angels come to Abraham and Sarah It's it's the text and in chapter 17 and chapter 18 where you know God Comes and eats at Abraham's table Abraham tells Sarah and they Prayer to the mccake they sent him to tree they sent the shade of a tree He feeds them he treats them well and and God tells Abraham and Sarah that this time next year I will come again and you will have a son and Sarah laughs and God says why do I flaffing and Sarah said she didn't God said oh you laughed Um, and then he's on his way to to Sodom and Gomorrah to destroy it or to as God says in the text I'll just quote him because he is God and I'm not right um To see for himself what was taking place right and then yeah, we have the the the negotiation in chapter 18 and in chapter 19 We have the two angels arrived in Sodom a lot is at the city gate a lot brings the two angels into his house And once again, we see the hospitality that Abraham gave lot is also trying to give but in less Mm More humble items than what then what Abraham had but but go ahead. That's where we are in verse five Well actually, I'd like to start at four you go ahead Do you want me just to read? Yeah, you want to all right. So Genesis 19 4 through 9 Before they lay down the men of the city the men of Sodom surrounded the house both young and old all the people from every quarter And they called to lot and said to him where are the men who came to you tonight Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them, but lot went out to them at the doorway and shut the door behind him and said Please my brothers do not act wickedly Now be hold I have two daughters who have not had relations with man. Please let Please let me bring them out to you and due to them whatever you like only do nothing to these men And as much as they have come under the shelter of my roof But they said stand aside Furthermore, they said this one came in as an alien and already he is acting like a judge Now we will treat you worse than them So they pressed hard against a lot and came near to break the door So very good what six out oh, I was muted myself what six out to you so Your audience knows my history and now if I mean if you've listened to the previous podcast so if you have it you should go back agreed agreed I remember I just kind of wanted to say on the on the On the start here. I remember Being in the gay world and hearing these scriptures and it meaning nothing and or at me it being perceived by me as Being mean to me or or trying to oppress me or whatever But I'd like to say that now all of these scriptures that we're going to talk about today are Liberation like I genuinely feel it's the same scriptures I remember the same words and they mean something so different to me now But I have often heard this in particular this scripture in particular chapter 19 Be used to say that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of homosexuality So since we're getting into the meat in potatoes today like Cody said um I just I don't think And Cody I don't I want you to tell me what you think I don't believe that Based on the this short scripture. I don't think that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed simply because they were homosexual I think that is I think it is I gave him a look at my nerves. I was like wait, we just talked about this I was like, what are you doing to me? So I I think it's Similar to sin sickness is in my opinion similar to an addiction That it's it is the disease the sin the turning away from God the rebellion against our creator is the disease For all intents and purposes and all of these sins that come out of that are symptoms of the disease And Jesus is the great physician he will heal you that's why he came to earth But sorry, I'm digressing. No, you're fine More to the point I believe their scripture that supports me in my In my theory that it is not just homosexuality that it is a loosening of sexual morals to the point To where sex is viewed as a domination thing as a punishment as What's the word breaking of guest right Being used to break guest right meaning it was a Somebody had been welcomed into your home. They were under your protection as lot says later on they're under his roof so The in verse four It says the men of Sodom surrounded the house both young and old All the people from every quarter. I'm going to repeat that last part all the people from every quarter I do not know of a civilization whether they are progressive, liberal, conservative, whatever their views on homosexuality. Or even let's go like religious. Whether they're atheists or not atheists or Christian or Muslim or whatever. Yeah, go ahead. Not every group is 100% gay. No. So clearly in the scripture when it says all the people from every quarter, it said every person, every, I believe it says every man. Yeah, the men of Sodom. So every single man in Sodom, there's no way, in my opinion, that every single man could be gay within a city. So I really think that this scripture is used to browbeat a lot of people. Yes. And it's pulled out of context. It's pulled out of context. And I am not saying it's OK to be actively homosexual, to be gay. But I'm saying I think that is a small aspect of the sin of Sodom. And their sin was greater than just one sin. It was turning away from God. They were not God fearing. Well, and I'm going to bring a little logic into this. I know we're supposed to focus on meat and potatoes, but I want to bring a little logic. And then I want to bring up what Ezekiel says about Sodom and Desmora. You know, logically, if God destroyed Sodom and Desmora because of homosexuality, the men of Sodom, if their whole goal was homosexuality and sexual pleasure, they would just sleep with each other. They're a point. And they're not. They're not. They're not abusing a guess. They're using it as a punishment. Yeah. I want to look at what Ezekiel says. And Ezekiel 16, this is Ezekiel 16 versus 49 and 50. I'll say it again, Ezekiel 16 versus 49 and 50. Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom. This is Ezekiel. This is God to Ezekiel to not really the people in Jerusalem, but also about the people in Jerusalem because Ezekiel was already in the land of Babylon at the time, this takes place. This was the sin of your sister Sodom. She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned. They did not help the poor and needy. They were hotty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. It's not about, you know, sexual pleasures. Yeah. And there are places that does talk about that. The sexual abuse was happening in Genesis 19. I don't want to say that wasn't happening. But there was more at play here. They didn't go from being godly to being that wicked overnight. I mean, a lot of sin had been occurring to lead up to this. And it was because they did not help the poor and needy. It's not only were they not helping, they were abusing them here as we see in the text. No. And just your spot on James. We use this to browbeat. We use it to scare. We use it to scare. And we do a disservice to the text and to each other. Yeah. No, that's exactly right. Because I know there are a lot of people out there that love Jesus. But they don't, they're mixed up in their theology because they've suffered at the hands of man and they blame it on the church. They blame it on God because they're saying, well, his representatives have said this to me, have done this, have treated me poorly and they've run away from the church. And that's not what we're supposed to do. Yeah. That's exactly right. We're supposed to love each other. That's absolutely right. I have a note here on this text. If your audience hasn't, if you haven't figured this out, I digress a lot. But I wrote that specifically regarding Genesis 19, that darkness is agitated by the light and the angels were from God. And lot was a godly man. So the forces of darkness are often agitated when there's light around them. They don't want to be dragged out into the light. Yeah. You say that also think about what John writes about Jesus and John one of the light shines of the darkness and darkness does not overcome it. So I never heard of him. He James making James version. Yeah. It doesn't win. No, it can't. It cannot win. The victory's already been won. Everybody. I'm glad we started there. We started in Genesis. In Genesis. Oh, very good. Where do you want to go next? I've heard this one over and over and over used to prao beat as well. You really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Chapter six. 18. Verse 22. Wait. Did I say Leviticus? You said you did. Okay, I was thinking maybe I said the wrong book. I was saying Corinthians. Oh, I was like, there's not 18 chapters in Corinthians, but no, you said Leviticus. I'm the one who needs to. I'm too excited to listen more. You and me both, brother. Go ahead, brother. All right. This is Leviticus 18 verse 22. You shall not lie with a man as one lies with a female. It is an abomination. I don't know another way to interpret that scripture. I don't like. Some people get salty over it. I mean, potato salty, but. I don't like the season. They don't like the seasoning. Oh, so, you know, what is the context? It's. It's the Moses and God is laying out. Everyone were not supposed to have sex with. Yeah. Which is everyone who's not your wife. Yeah. And then the. No sexual relations, you know, do not have relations with the man as one does with the woman that is the testable. Now, you said this is used to browbeat. Oh, yeah. It's used to browbeat, but I've honestly heard it more from the other side of the argument of. Well, in Leviticus. Okay, so these are not my views, but these used to be my views when I was going to say, what do you mean the other side? The other side. Okay, I'm sorry. I am indeed doing something I don't like right now. I am saying it's us versus them. And what I mean is believers versus non-believers. Yeah. And I'm not trying to other us and separate us. Right. I'm just trying to clarify for the sake of argument here. No, I understand. I guess what I was actually asking was, what is the view of the other side? And how did they? Oh, I see what you're saying. I thought you were asking me to define it. Anyway, so they say that, and to be fair, again, I used to say this too. I used to genuinely believe this, because it says that in the Old Testament that we have to abide. Like, if you're going to use that against me, then you better not eat shrimp. You better not work on the Sabbath. You better not. Where I'm, you can have mine. I don't care for it. You know, you better not wear clothing that's got more than two types of material in it. And, and like all of these, I call it the nitty gritty. I don't mean that in a disrespectful way, but like in the Old Testament, there are some very detailed descriptive laws. Yeah. In the law. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's kind of their argument is that if you're going to say it this, if you're going to use this against me, well, then you're a hypocrite because you're not doing everything that the Old Testament says. And then there's, of course, we're not under the Old Testament anymore. So it's, it's, I look, I look at the Old Testament. I've only got three in the Old--is that a fair argument though? You know, they say don't use this. And if you do use this. For an outsider that has not actually read the Bible, I can see where they use logic. For someone who has read the Bible and believes it and understands that the Old Law is fulfilled in the statement. Love, love your neighbor as yourself. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the--it was all fulfilled in Christ. Like we are not under the Old Law anymore. We are under the New Testament, the law of liberty that Christ's blood bought for us. So no, we're not under these nitty-gritty laws, but we also--all Scripture is good for reproof, for doctrine, and for correction. I'm, I'm, I'm sorry, I'm misquoting Scripture right now. But--I'm sorry, I lost my job. No, you're fine. I lost my job. I lost my job. Yes, I was profitable for-- Thank you, yes. For correction for instruction, the righteousness--the men of God may be adequately clipped, adequately equipped for every good work of God. So and and there is benefit to the law, but it's, do you bind the law? Do you what bind? Oh, you know, do you put that yoke on yourself? Yeah, that's, that's the question. And I think honestly, I think it is a fair argument that the other side makes because, you know, you were going to bring up chapter 19 as well. And I'm going to beat you to the punch. Is that okay? You know, you know, I'm going to beat you to the punch. You know, I'm going to beat you to the punch. I'm going to beat you to the punch. I'm reminded of the argument that some people make that homosexuality is permittable because Christ himself never mentioned it. So it's like a twisting a bit of the words of his words because no he didn't say do not do this but what he said was this is what is permissible. He said one man, one woman joined together in Holy Matrimony. That's what's permissible and that anything else he didn't have time to go through the list of sins that human beings can conceive of in their sexuality. And you know what I mean? Yeah, so I do have a passage from Jesus. I do want to get into it. I do want to look at that specifically. Oh okay. We talked about that a little bit in the last part. We talked about it. Yeah, we touched on it. And we touched on it. Deeper actually is the text. Yeah. But is there anything else in Leviticus you'd like to go over while we're still here? Just 2013. And I kind of quoted a bit of it. If there is a man who lies with a man as those who lies with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act, they shall surely be put to death. Their blood, guiltiness is upon them. I am glad we are no longer bound by that. You're right. There would be a lot of death. Yeah, there would be a lot of death. And that's what. Agreed. Maybe you'd like to add to that. Um, no, no. I'm ready to move on to the new testament. Okay. Very good. Are you? Yeah. I like talking about Jesus. Look at Matthew 19. Oh. Was there another Jesus passage you're going to bring up or? We still bring it up. It don't matter. Oh, yeah. Um, just where I wanted to start. Yeah. 19. This is the one I had. Matthew 19. Look at, uh, verses one through the, you know, the full context is verses one through 11. Okay. That's what we're going to focus on. Yeah. So yeah, we're starting verse one, verses one through 11. Okay. Um, and I'll read it for us. Uh, Matthew 19 verse one with Jesus head finished saying these things. I'm reading for the N.I.V. He left Galilee and went to a region with Judea on the other side of Jordan. Large crowds followed him and he healed them there. Some Pharisees came to test him. They asked, is it lawful for Amanda divorces wife for any, for any and every reason? Haven't you read Jesus replied at the beginning of the creator made the male and female and said for this reason, a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his wife. The two should become one flesh so they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God is doing together let no man separate. Why then they asked and Moses commanded a man to give his wife a certificate of divorce and said to her wife. Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife except for sexual immorality and marries another woman commits adultery. We talk about the arguments that you've heard that you've already talked about and we talked about in the last episode. And one of the main ones I always hear was Jesus never condemns homosexuality. outright. But what Jesus does do is establish a standard of what marriage looks like. He clearly states what is permissible. And by that implies that everything else but that is not permissible. Yes. And that's what he says here. You know, everything every other sexual relationship that's not between a married man and woman is sinful. And there was no debate among that with Jesus and the apostles or the Pharisees or the Sadducees or shoot. Let's go further. Or the Sains or the Zillocks. Every group understood who was allowed to have sex and it was a man and woman who were married and monogamous. And that's the same thing Jesus carries over here from Genesis chapter one two three into the New Testament. This is what marriage looks like. He goes further, he's asked about divorce pieces. This is the blessing that was given by God. This is what he ordained. This is what he designed. It's still from Jim's series. The divine design. This is that divine design that marriage is supposed to be and what it looks like. It predates, and I say this at weddings. It predates religion. Yeah, because it existed before culture. Yeah. It was part of the establishment of creation. Yeah. I mean, it predates sin. I hadn't thought about that, but yeah, it does. And it doesn't matter a person's belief, when a man and a woman get married, God joins them, just like he did have an eve. No other standard. I should say standard. No other practice is ordained by Jesus or God. That's like you said, it's God's grand design. It's for our good that he designed our, I mean, I don't mean the craft, but he designed our bodies that way. I just realized that I took a sip on your drink earlier. I don't think so. Okay, good. It's yours now if you did. I was looking for my thorn, I said there was over there. Anyhow, sorry. I got distracted. No, you gave me a look and I was like, what did I just say something weird? Like, no, you did. Now, I was looking at your coat thinking, I thought my coat was there, but what? I think it's the way he's designed our bodies and our minds and our hearts is because, I mean, sex is a bonding activity. I mean, that's, I don't mean to go to degrade it or whatever, but that's, you know, it is meant to, in my understanding of it, it's meant to build a bond between two people and they become one flesh. What could be more intimate than that? And that's the way he designed us and sin broke that. I mean, eventually it became, it becomes what, honestly, what it's become today and it's kind of a, well, I don't want to be down on peace. So, so go back to my first season. I, you know, I did that episode, you know, sex education in the church and the very next episode is what does the Bible say about sex? I had Josh put a part in L on and, you know, that's something me and him talked about specifically as we went through the song of Sullivan and other passages was that, you know, there is no such thing as sex without emotional connection. Which if there is it, it's because we have none ourselves. Yeah. Because we have abused it too much. That's, that's, that's another aspect of the point I made about, I don't, I think it was in our last podcast about when you're, when you're promiscuous and when you're, especially if you're gay and promiscuous, it becomes just another way of meeting, getting to the end of, of the union rather than bonding emotionally with that person. No, and, and shella to Jim Gardner, you know, he did a, a Bible class as he's been going through David this. I think this might have been back in June where he talked about the conscience and, and how we know more conscience by continually to ignore it through our sinful practice. Yes. Yeah. Which, which is what, you know, which is how we, people eventually are able to have sex without emotional attachment. Yeah. Is there another passage in the Gospels you're like to look at? Um, no. Okay. No, I'm sure there are more, but I don't know. I, I'm sure there's another one. That's just the one I always go to. That's my, I always bring this one up when I do wedding. Yeah. Because it's been so, Jesus is so specific. Yeah. And he does one of the things I notice and I mean, it's just, it's part of the way I try to, it's part of the way I try to get to know him better. He's, he's sorry. He turns his head and he talks and he gets away from the microphone. Yeah. I got, I got, I got, this is why I used to do lapels. Oh, yeah. Sometimes I prefer little pales, but I think the quality overall sounds better with this, but go ahead. I'm sorry. Um, I lost my turn. I thought no. Dad got it. You got to catch me in the moment. I got to go ahead. What was I saying? I don't know. I don't remember either. I was focused on you looking down and not having your face in the microphone. Sorry, guys. I'm sure it was really great. Maybe we'll come back. Maybe it will. Yeah. Uh, we'll pass it to like, would you like to go to next? I want to go to Romans 1, 26 and 27, which deals with, it deals with something that frankly used to terrify me when I, when I became a Christian. I am now no longer afraid of it, but, um, all right. Do you want me to read it? Yeah. All right. Romans 1, 26 and 27. For this reason, God gave them over to degrading passions. For their women exchanged the natural function for that, which is unnatural. And in the same way, also, the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another. Men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons, the due penalty of their error. Why did that terrify you? Oh, um, because 26 is the verse. I, I don't remember where I heard it exactly, but someone was talking about a reprobate mind that basically are to my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, Cody, um, that a reprobate mind means a completely seared conscience. You no longer, you no longer see a difference between doing what's right and doing what's wrong. And if you do, you do not care. And I don't know, it's, it's, it's kind of like the unforgivable sin. Like if you're worried about it, if you're genuinely concerned, you likely didn't, you know, you likely don't have a reprobate mind, or you likely didn't commit the unforgivable sin. Um, I want to talk about the seared conscience real quick. Yeah. Can you, you may want to put a finger that are a bookmark? Okay. Um, first simply for this is where this, this comes from. And I, it looks like I'm going to be in the, unfortunately, the new Key Times version, just because that's what popped up on my screen. I've got an ASB. Do you have it open? Yeah, go ahead. For what? Oh, chapter four verses one and two. But the spirit explicitly says that in later times, some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons. By means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron. Yeah, you're, you're a nurse. Do you know what? When you burn your skin, you know what it does? Yeah. It causes a lot of damage. It, it can also cause scarring, which will last forever. Um, causes a lot of pain. Yeah. And it can, I mean, depending on the, the heat, the length of exposure, a lot of different factors, it can, it can be superficial or it can go, it can go far. It can go far. It also done the dead nerves. It can. Yeah. See, and that's what I always think of when I see the, when I think of this passage, um, having their own conscience here with a hot eye and I think of, you know, our conscience because nerves, our conscience, deadens, like nerves, deadens when we're burned. Um, and that's essentially what's a different way of phrasing what's taking place in Romans chapter one. God, God gave them over. That, that, that also terrifies me what you just said. Yeah. That, cause it, God in his infinite wisdom and his, I don't know if infinite patience is the correct term, but yeah, but long standing, long suffering. He said these people have gone too far. I will now give them exactly what they're wanting, which is their own fleshly pleasure. And that terrifies me. There is no scarier thing that I can imagine than my God telling me, I no longer am going to be here for you. I just, I just, as a believer, I cannot imagine anything scary. So I, I guess the question becomes how does someone repent when they're in that moment? In, with the seared conscience. Yeah. Seared conscience being given over by God. I don't, I, I, my understanding, again, clearly my own understanding. I'm not saying this is the absolute truth. My understanding is once your conscience, once God has turned you over, you're on your own. That's my understanding. Now, if I don't know though, because I mean, I know our, our God is very gracious and quick to forgive if you come to him with your heart and say, this is what I've done wrong and I'm sorry. And you repent and you turn away from that as in, I'm, I'm, I'm basing my perception of it on that if you are, if your conscience is so seared and you do not have the tug of God, God tugging at your heart. That's what I mean. Because he's turned you over to to this debased passion, this worldly desire, if you don't have that, your song. Like, why would you worry about repentance if you don't think you're doing anything wrong? If you've told the creator so many times, I'm right near wrong God. If you've said that over and over and over until you start to believe it, I don't know that there is a coming back from that. Am I being too harsh with my perception? No, I think that's a very not only good, too harsh. When you pull out of the text and you look at texts, it's, that is a conclusion a lot of people come to. I've got to believe though, and this is just me. This isn't the text. This is Cody Bradford, okay? And I could be wrong here, James. I got to believe that there is a rock bottom, people have to hit to turn back. And they eventually hit that rock bottom and sometimes they don't and sometimes they do. But I've seen too many times where I'll see, and I'll tell you what it comes from. It comes from my works with addictions and my work with people who are addicts who they hit that rock bottom and you see them and you're like, there's no hope for them, there's no way they'll change. And then they do. You'll see them years later and they're fine. Or they just wake up one day and God snaps them back in place out of nowhere or they finally open their eyes. And they realize this is not okay. I'm not okay. I've got to get out of here. But they chase God whatever they may have. That is entirely possible. I mean, I mean, the world is filled with stories like that. But in James, maybe that's just me having. - I hope I'm wrong. - Why? I hope? I hope I'm wrong on my perception. I want. - I'm not at least. - I'm not at least scripture back that up. That's just me open. I mean, mine. - Let's just be wanting to believe. - Wow. - Because I don't know what can I just be honest? - Please, always. - Based on the story you told us last time and from the experiences you and I have talked about outside of the podcast, I would have assumed if I had known you back then that you're someone that God had just given up. That God had turned over. And here you are chasing God with everything you have. - Like I said, I hope I'm wrong. - Yeah. - I do. Because. - And if that was a rude assessment, I'm sorry. - No, no, it's just like I said, that's me. - The truth is not a thing to me. - Looking at the picture you had painted, 'cause you know, it's me, if you've. - We've been talking about it for years. We've been talking about it for a long time. And looking at the painting you have painted for me, the picture you have painted for me, I'll get it out eventually and coming to that conclusion. But then, you know, I also think of that when I did gravy, you know, I did that series, me, Jim, I went to that series in January of 2024. And I, you know, if you're familiar with the change movement on social media on Facebook, I would encourage you to look them up, but they're full of stories of people who were lesbian, who were gay, who were bisexual, who were transgender, who transitioned completely to the opposite sex and then transitioned back. - I've heard a lot of stories like that, yeah. - And there are individuals who I would have assumed if I had met them, you know, these are people that God has given over. - I don't know what to say to that. - I mean, I mean, I don't know where the line is. - Yeah. - I'll put it like that. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't know. And frankly, I'm glad I don't have to make that choice. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? I just know I'm grateful. I'm so grateful that God did not see fit to do that with me, that he saw fit to lean on my heart until I was ready to open it to him. Thank you, God. I mean, I don't know anything else to say about that. - You know, and I'll say one more thing, while this is true, what takes place here in Romans 126 and 27, it's also true that God knows all about us and He loves us anyway. And as I used to have on my background, on my computer, there's nothing we can do that'll change is my. - Right. Well, I think God loves all of us. I think even the ones whom He turned over to a reprobate mind, I think He still loves them. And that's just the God we serve. I mean, not just, but you know what I mean? That's simply put, that's the God we serve. He loves us even when we have turned our back on Him. - I do want to get to a little bit deeper with this text. In verse 26, you know, we've looked at the God that's turned them over, but I want to look at the last part of the verse where it says, even their women exchange natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. It's painting a picture of lesbianism. - Of lesbianism. - That the sexual relations and the sexual abuse and the, I guess it should say sexual morality that is talked about in scripture applies to both man and women. - Yes. - That man should not sleep with man and women should not sleep with women. But no, it, it, it paints that picture here. - And really, and really let's, let's throw back to Matthew 19. Really, a man should only sleep with his wife and a woman should only sleep with her husband. - That's right. - Everything else is outside of the biblical pattern. - That is the biblical pattern. That's how it works best. - That's right. - I mean, if you, if you, any time you introduce sex into any relationship, regardless of the gender of people, if you are not a man and woman in a committed monogamous marriage, every single time the sex will cause problems. - That's right. - Every single time you may not see it up front, but looking at it from the outside, you can always see there will be problems. - It's very good. - Because it's outside of his design. - It's very good. - But it's also okay not to get married. - It's right. - I'd like to point that out. - And Paul goes in detail about that in first grade seven. - I, I couldn't remember the quite the scripture for it. - Yeah, but. - No, that, that was one, you know, when I first graduated from college, I was a single youth minute. I was one of the youth minister and I was single and a lot of churches didn't want to hire me because I was single. - And so that was the first I had to lean on for, to keep from being discouraged. - Yeah. - Um, you know, and that's what I tell myself, Paul was single. James is single. It's okay, or about James, but Jesus was single and it's okay. It's okay. Singleness is a part of God's plan. - Yeah. - Just as much as a man and woman being married is. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I think it's, I mean, if I remember right that scripture, you're referencing about Paul, he talks about if you get married and again, there's nothing wrong with getting married. It is part of how God designed us for some of us. But if you get married, then you're naturally going to be devoting time, energy, love, passion to your spouse. Whereas, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. But people who are single, we don't have that. So all of that should be going to God. All of that love and passion and desire and, sorry, well, just to be clear, I just mean desire to be closer to. - Yeah. - Not anything weird, sorry. - And I want to point out, since we're talking about singleness, - Yeah. - Jesus also talks about that in Matthew 19 and verses 10, 11 and 12. The disciples hear what he said about marriage and how it is meant to be for life. And the only reason it divorces for sexual morality, the disciples say to him in verse 10 of Matthew 19, if this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry. And then Jesus says, not everyone can accept this word. - Not everyone can. And there's also a part, speaking about, not everyone can, or him that has ears letting me hear, I believe, where Jesus talks about unix. - Yeah. - Which is also in Matthew, I don't recall exactly. - That's Matthew 19. - 19. - No, for there are unix or born that way. - Oh, that's right. - There are unix and made used by others and there are those who choose to live like unix. - Yeah. - For the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can't accept this should accept it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Did you just say that and I missed it? - We end. - About, verse 12. - Did you know, I said it after you said you said you- - Oh, okay, cool. - I went into verse 12. - Sorry. - No, you're fine. - Full disclosure, I was looking at my notes to see if there was anything else in that scripture. [BLANK_AUDIO] I was like, did I like drift off and not hear what he was saying? But I was, I was like, I was listening to you. No, you're fine. One thing I noticed in 27. Robins were back in Robins 1, 27. Yes. Oh, sorry. Yeah. No, it's fine. We just, it's really easy when you're going to verse, verse, verse, verse, verse, for someone to get, you know, for a listener to get confused. Fair point. Fair point. They don't live inside my head or yours. So. Right. Take care. No. I'm a little scared to think about it. Um, uh, in verse seven, it says, and burned in their desire toward one another. To me, that's, that's more than just the act. That's more than just the act of homosexuality. That is if you're burning in your desire for one another, to me, that implies that you're taking up a lot of your time thinking about it. Obsession. You're obsessing over it. Yeah. The N.A.V. says that more in flame with their lust for each other. Oh, yeah. That's a. Yeah. Translation to. Um, no, it's, it's obsession. Yeah. It is. It's a, it's a form of addiction. I think. Now, where would you like to go to next? I don't know. I've been picking you pick me. Well, if, if we're going to go to next, I want to go to the next, the next two I have are the first Timothy one passage and the first Corinthians six. Okay. And I kind of want to look at those simultaneously because they use the same required. Okay. But did you want to say those for last? Do you have some words to go? No, those are, those are the other two that I have. Okay. So let's go to. First Timothy one. And I'm going to read. Is it first Timothy one? Yeah. First Timothy one eight through 10. Yeah. I'll read, I'll read eight through 10. And then I'll go to first Corinthians six. And then I'll spend, I'll spend the bulk of my focus on first Corinthians six. And that's all right with you. But I'll start this is first Timothy one versus eight through 10. We know the laws good if one uses it properly. We also know the laws made not for the righteous, but for the law, breakers and rebels, the ingodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious. For those who kill their fathers and mothers for murderers for the sexual immoral, immoral for those practicing homosexuality for slave traders and liars and purgers. And for whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine. That resonates with me, whatever is contrary to sound doctrine. Was it resonate with you? I think it goes, I think it goes deep into the psyche because we at our core are made to worship and adore God. And when you don't, you know it. Even even if you don't understand it, even if you're not consciously thinking of it, if you're not living as God intended you to live, you cannot be whole, you cannot be complete. And so sound doctrine, that's just such a strong phrasing. And it's a very accurate and apt phrasing that sound doctrine like do what God says, you're supposed to do. Listen to what he says because he's going to tell you the truth. Yeah. And that's, you know, it's important to define sound doctrine and the way I like to define it is I take people to Titus chapter two, more or Paul tells Titus to teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine in verse one, chapter two. And then he says in verse two, teach the older men to be temperate self-control, the respect sound in faith and love teach the women to be reverent and in verse, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not slanderers or dicks with much wine. He said verse, you know, verse four, they teach the younger women to love their husbands and children to be self-control peer to be busy at home. Likewise, in verse six, encourage the young men to be self-controlled, you know, verse nine teach servants to be subject to their masters. And it's sound doctrine is a way of life, not just beliefs, not just teachings, but yeah, no, it's, I look at it as, because I've had to have this talk with myself before. It's not about not doing wrong. It's just about living right. If that makes sense, it's not about avoiding doing something wrong. Because it's bad. It's about living what's right because it brings you closer to God. Yeah. And that's what he paint. That's the picture he paints here in verse 10 of 1 Timothy 1. It's practicing homosexuality is contrary to sound doctrine. It is. It is. I mean, even looking at it from a, well, all right, I'm going to tread lightly, but even looking at it from a physiological aspect, it doesn't make sense. There's, he designed our bodies in a very specific way for a man and a woman to fit together. And I'm not going to go into graphic detail here, but, but two men were not designed to fit together and two women were not designed in that way. I mean, it's, it's clear that there is a specific way. Anything else from 1 Timothy 1? I actually, I'd also like to point out that in my note, I had written, clearly, the homosexual lifestyle is considered contrary to sound teaching. Sound doctrine. And yeah, no, that's fine because the only other note I, I had on this one was the Greek word for homosexual that word. I like looking at first, first, fifth, and sixth for that one, because that's the one it's all over TikTok. Well, because, because people say, oh, the word homosexual wasn't in the original Bible. All that to James and Dr. Zabipa, Danes. Yeah. But do you want to read 1 Corinthians 6 and the passage we're referring to? Sure. All right. So I got 1 Corinthians 6, um, 9 through 11. Wait, 9 through 10 and 9 through 11, 9 through 10. Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor homosexuals, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. Now, you had a feminine, well, was the other word you had in the Newark Ascended? Affeminate, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals. Yeah, nor homosexuals. So I actually looked at both effeminate and homosexuals. Oh, yeah. And strong concordant. Yeah, I did. You want to share? Oh, sure. Yeah, I'm sorry. All right. So the word, the first one, effeminate is, I believe it's malacos. Yeah. It is literally means soft, but it is used figuratively as more of a person in general, as more of a person in general who are guilty of addiction to sins of the flesh. I've also heard this word translated into English as catamite, which is the receptive partner in a male homosexual relationship. And then the other word is arsonocoites. The translated now as homosexuals. I believe originally in the King James, I believe it calls them sodamites. Maybe I'd have to look at the King James. I believe sodamite is the word that was used before homosexual was put in there, because homosexual is a clinical word that was only in the early 1900s. I believe like 1800s early 1900s. Oh, that part is true. Yeah. So yeah, it is a modern word, but sodamite is not a word that we use really anymore. But anyway, so the King James, and this is the one that goes back to 1800s, not the original 1611, it doesn't use the word nor affimini, and then it uses nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Oh, that's how trans-tenzaites are in coitai. And it's important to understand, and that's the thing a lot of people will use to argue with, is King James never brings up the term homosexual. Right. Oftentimes it doesn't like to use the word sodamite. It's because King James was bisexual. No. Yeah, really? Yeah. Like openly so? I don't know if it was openly so, but it's pretty understood. And so they were, the translation were worried if they had translated as sodamite, the term back then was buggery. It's what they used. Right. And they had used buggery than they would have been beheaded. Oh, wow. Yeah, remember King James was not a good guy. Yeah, no, I knew that. I mean, I didn't know that aspect of his life. But that's right. Well, just another reason I'd like to point out that it's good not to get stuck on one single translation. No, yeah. Because I've met people that are KJV only. Yeah. And I'm like, well, there's like all translations have good and bad points. So something, uh, When people bring up homosexuality was not a term used originally, was not a term in the Bible, and was not using the King James, I often bring up the fact that, although homosexuality is a newer term and it is a more clinical term, there were other terms people used for homosexuals in the 1500, 1600, 1700s and beyond. I want to bring up what's called the Geneva Bible. Are you familiar with the Geneva Bible? I've heard of it. Yes. Let's see. Let me make sure I can get to the right spot here. The Geneva Bible uses the terms, verse 9, no, you not, the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God, do not be deceived me, the four-nircators, nor the dollars, nor the adulterers, these are the word wontons, which I'm not familiar with, and it uses the word more buggerers. This is from 1599, which predates, you know, Q. James by a few years. Wait, is it WA and T.O.N.? Yeah. That's like, um, if I remember right, if you're wonton, then it's like you're trying, you're trying to be a luring, if I remember correct. Okay. So it's like, it sounds like they're using it in a trying to lure people to be sexual. Yeah. That's, that's my interpretation. I could be wrong. And that's, you know, a few minutes, which use an affinement to a new-break-in-standard Bible. And, you know, the N.O.V. takes the term for Malacos and our singe-cloetai, which is the passive partner and the active partner in sexual relations and it combines it in the one word, which is homosexual. Right. Instead of two, which is accurate, you know, it's just, I mean, and also at the time, there was, I mean, it's, let's be real, homosexuality has been existent in every single culture. Yeah. From all time. Sin is sin is sin. Just like all sin. There's always been fevery. There's always been lying. There's always been gossip. But I will point out that in the Greek culture at, I believe at the time of the Bible, if not before, that it was an established practice for a fully adult married man to take a younger boy. Yes. And I'm using that word intentionally, a younger boy as a lover, which is, there is no other word for it. That's pedophilia. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's true. That was, that was common in Greek practices. So, yeah, there's a book I want to recommend to everyone. It's written by Rubu Shelley. It's called Man and Female God created them. It's a biblical review of the LGBTQ plus claims. And this is something that he goes into thoroughly. He dyes sex, Roman culture. He dyes sex, you know, Greek culture. And he talks about the common sexual relations and sexual practices that were common for the times at the first century. And before, you know, a couple centuries before as well. Because, and this is what Paul is writing about in first Corinthians, you know, first, a church of Corinth, they were dealing with the Temple of Aphrodite. You know, they were, they were dealing with open temple prostitutes. It's part of the reason why the church of Corinth had so many sexually immoral issues in the culture in, in their city and in the church. And, and while homosexual, homosexual was not a term used in the Bible before, I think there's a movie about it in, in like the 1946 or 1942 or something. There were other terms that were used in the 1500s and the 1600s. That were common practice. Yeah. And we're part of everyday language that we no longer use. We no longer use, yeah. Because language changes. Yeah. Language changes. While we're here in this, is it okay if I point out it? Please do. I moved away from the, from the microphone again. I'd like to point out something that sticks out to me towards the end of chapter six. And it's verse 18, "Fleet immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sends against his own body." So, so many times in scripture we are told to stand our ground, to stand where we are and fight. But this says, "Fleet immorality." I think our flesh is so weak that Paul knew that we often can't stand against the temptation. So he, he's set like it is the importance that he's giving it by saying flee from it. Do not stand around it. flee from it. Don't avoid it. flee from it. Like turn and run. Because in my, in my interpretation of the rest of the verse, it sounds like, correct me if I'm wrong, Cody, it sounds like sexual immorality. You sin against two. It's not, you're not just sinning against God. You are sinning against God. Don't get me wrong. But you are also sinning against your own body, because it is again going outside of the natural design that God put into our body. So that verse has stuck out to me for a long time actually about flee immorality. Like that's a very strong language. flee from it. Run away from it. I do want to go back to the Greek word. Okay. That's good with you. That's our Zen Koi Thai. Because when I was on TikTok, this was the biggest argument I saw. And this is, this, I don't know why. I know why. You know, because the text literally says, "If you do these things, you will not enter the kingdom of God." Right. Right. And so there was such a push on TikTok to separate. But and this is, you know, this goes back to LGBT affirming Christians and LGBT affirming churches and LGBT affirming pastors were on TikTok pushing themselves and pushing, pushing homosexuals out of this verse or trying to explain it away. And there's something else, you know, I want to get to the actual Greek word of what it means. You know, the word is arson koi Thai. It comes from two words. One of them is the word arson or arcane or arcose. It means man. And the other word is the, you know, the word koi Thai. See, 2845. It means bed or couch up. Please be lying down. Yeah. Um, so I want to read it specifically out of my key word Bible that has a Greek and Hebrew dictionary in the back, okay? I'm just going to read the definition koi Thai, a couch by extension cohabitation by implication, the bell sperm bed bed chamber or conceive. Do you say mail sperm? Yeah. It's where we get the term koi. That's, yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. That's, that's what, this book I have my office, uh, how it translates like koi Thai. Yeah. And so the Paul text to two words brings it together and it literally means man sex or manbed. And there's an argument that, well, Paul just made up a word and he put it in there. He was attacking. He was a homophobe. But that was common in Greek practice. It's common in Greek language in ancient Greek language. Like compound words. Yes. It's common in the German language today. Yeah. You just make up new words. It's, you know, it's not rare for people to do that. You know, and when he wrote that, everyone knew what he was talking about. There was no doubt. There was no doubt. It's the active and passive partner. And what we would call today in the, in the 21st century homosexual. Yeah. One more verse I want to point out in six. Chapter six is that's okay. Yeah. Let me get out of the Geneva Bible. You go right. Okay. You go right ahead. And, and I think I think we definitely, no, I know we definitely touched on this in the last one in our last episode. But I do want to bring it back up because I feel it bears repeating. First Corinthians six verse 11. Now we just talked about, you know, the list of these sinners will not inherit the kingdom of God in nine and ten. And then the very next verse in 11 says, and such were some of you, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God. That is, Paul does this so well. He lays all this stuff out and then he brings it back with just a couple of verses. He, this verse gives me such hope, not just from, from my own past, but even from, when I sin now, and whatever sin I'm happy, you know, whatever sin I'm dealing with in that moment, that when you, when you repent, when you give that over to Christ and you repent and you, he, he will wash you, he will sanctify you, he will justify you, he will lead you home to him. That's right. He will not leave you in your sin if you don't want to be there, if you come to him earnestly and honestly and repent and and ask for forgiveness, he is quick to forgive you. I think, based on the character of God that I understand, I think it tickles him. I think it delights him to no end when his children come to him and say, "I'm sorry, please forgive me." I think he casts the sin away. And it's forgiven, he does not bring it up again. I believe there is scripture for that. - Remember is it no more? - He remembers it no more. Isn't there scripture that says it tosses him behind him, where is that a literal? - I don't know, I don't have to-- - I'm not sure. - Sorry, for all the preparation we both did, I think. (laughing) But that's-- - Oh, that's beautiful. - There's just such an open watch. - There is. - Yeah, like, I, I'm not sure if I talked about this. Did I talk about in the last episode? - I don't know what you're about to say. - You're not inside my head? Again, we've talked about this. - Thank you. - Okay, so this is my own experience. This is my own testimony having come to Jesus Christ from the homosexual actively gay lifestyle. I feel cleaner. And I don't know a better word. I feel different now than I did five years ago when I was active. Yeah, I feel lighter. My body feels cleaner. And I don't know, like I said, I wish I had a better word for it. But I guess pure maybe because I'm, I feel like I really understand what he says when he says you have been washed because I don't feel dirty. I feel clean. And the only reason, the sole reason that I am clean is because of the blood of Christ. The sacrifice he made for us. Nothing I did saved me. Everything he did saved me. - And on that note, I would like to end 'cause I think that's a beautiful place to end for anything else you would like to add. - No, I think we've said a lot. - Thank you so much for listening. If you have any questions, you can email them to see [email protected] that see [email protected]. Once again, thank you so much for listening at James. Thanks for coming back on the show. - Thanks for having me again. And remember, all things were made through here. (upbeat music)