The Best Supplements

hey everyone welcome to a gut feeling my name is jake and i'm joined here today with dave as health coaches and educators we've helped thousands of clients optimize their life by healing their gut our aim with this podcast is to provide you with some of those tools and before we get into it don't forget to check out the show notes for links to our social media profiles and if you like what we've got to say go with your gut and give this podcast a follow now let's get into today's show welcome to another episode of a gut feeling and this is a supplement episode we're going to be talking about different supplements that we particularly like and that we use and the focus of the particular supplements we want to talk about is bear with me so it's not just what are the supplements that everyone would benefit from okay we initially were like maybe we should talk about this but we actually want to go a step further because there's lots of supplements out there that arguably you could say just about anyone is going to benefit from this particular supplement right so an example might be magnesium and yes basically everyone should be taking magnesium but there's a lot of these supplements where you look at them and you're like you know what this supplement does one or two or several things particularly well but it's not like it's necessarily covering every single base and what we want to talk about is actually a short list i would say of supplements that we think cover just about any base so we're going to talk about magnesium but we're also going to talk about a lot of the supplements that we think cover just about any base and so that would be stuff like gastrointestinal health neurological health metabolic health potentially even stuff like hormonal health immune function like they're just covering every aspect of so many different aspects of health and so that is our topic today does that cover it dave i think what we're talking about here is like multi-faceted compounds yeah not multi-faceted no when i use it as an example i was like oh wait this is a bad example it's so it is multi-faceted yeah totally yeah and even like you know other you what we would call like support supplements like cod liver oil when yeah it may be you know something like a zinc l-carnicin like we're not saying those things aren't multi-faceted because obviously they are they cover a lot of bases but maybe with something like magnesium you could sort of like get into the weeds of like what type of magnesium is going to be better for a particular type of individual and maybe that's something that we're going to talk about in a bit but i think it's going to be that's a whole different conversation i guess what we're what we're trying to focus on here is maybe not the standard compounds that get talked about but also these compounds are extremely yes multi-faceted but they're extremely powerful even in their ability to even deal with certain diseases and ailments also i'll probably say these are compounds that more people should be talking about in terms of being part of like a supplement regime for someone but hardly anybody is like i think like you know we get the standard like everyone should be having like a protein powder we'd probably push back on that wouldn't we and we actually did a podcast talking about that or every single person should be taking like a you know creatine like a creatine monohydrate or every single person should be taking electrolytes and it's not us saying that electrolytes aren't going to cover a lot of bases but our thing would be does every single person yeah need to take a protein powder well even even if you think about those supplements like the classic ones like you said so protein electrolytes creatine magnesium even if we go a little bit further and say fish oil or cod liver oil those are all they all have benefit they all have a time and place and a lot of those are support supplements that we use but that would never be a protocol in its entirety if someone had a health condition or health concern those things are going to help but they're not going to be enough that's going to you know completely transform your health but it would come down to what i said yeah okay we're talking about like bang for your buck yeah that these supplements we're going to talk about here they could theoretically almost by themselves transform what that that health issue is that some people might be experiencing correct correct so we should we should probably get stuck into what those supplements are and not just leave people hanging and let's start with one i've i know i've been very vocal about this i don't think you've been quite as vocal about it but it's i mean i don't think it's going to be a surprise to anyone that we're a big fan of it and that's black cumin seed oil or nigella sativa and what we might do is we go through some of these supplements is just give a bit of a bit of an overview a bit of sort of like the highlights of some of the things that these these supplements cover because it is so much like you said and there's going to be more than what we're going to cover here but we just want to mention a few of the benefits some of these compounds have well one like let me let me kick things off with black cumin because i think you know i've actually been doing a fair bit of research around what compounds are really effective around actually helping with like certain types of epithelium in the gut lining you go obviously one of the major ones being like panaceas and the other one being like isc's or intestinal stem cells or the major progenitor cell within the gut lining and i didn't really have like black cumin on my radar to be honest and a lot of time with like panaceas i've spoken about things like lactoferrin and you know curcumin and obviously we're definitely going to come back to curcumin but i didn't really have black cumin on the radar being like you know exceptionally good for um you know severe damage to the gut lining so i actually looked at some literature around i think i spoke to you about this literature to do with like radiation and it was actually due with like radiation enteritis so that basically is where there's like inflammation in the intestines that occurs after like radiation therapy and that can cause like really severe you know symptoms like diarrhea and nausea and stomach cramps and what they've tried to do in the medical realms is try to find like medications that can actually rectify that damage but really they haven't found uh any major medications that have been effective at reducing the the occurrence or the severity of that damage so then they start to look at other compounds and one of the compounds is they start to look at tq so tq within like black cumin which is the thymo quinone uh found in the in the black seed oil now what that was actually trying to do was mitigate intestinal damage induced by the radiation exposure they did research it on mice and they actually showed that the mice that were exposed to the radiation and when that and then when when they were treated with the tq coming from the black seed oil it actually alleviated intestinal injury and actually also increased the amount of intestinal crypts so this is all to do with like structure of the gut lining and the big one that i liked is that the black seed oil was actually shown to promote panacea survival and panaceas for people who don't know they're located right at the base of the intestinal crypt and they help with amp's antimicrobial peptides they're really essential to actually help with microbiome homeostasis in the gut lining and preventing things like bacterial translocation from the gut lining to other organs in the body and it didn't stop there because not only did it promote like panacea survival but it also enhanced the survival of intestinal stem cells as well and intestinal stem cells that's tissue homeostasis that's wrapper renewal that's the regenerative capacity of the gut lining and even increased enterocyte proliferation enterocytes they actually help with the secretion of enzymes that help you to break down glucose and carbohydrate molecules and proteins and even the black seed oil modulated aspects around like dna damage and basically decrease like cell death in the small intestine now basically that means it's going to help with the crypt and the villi and the structure well there is an animal study i've seen where it increased villa's height as well so yes yes yeah yeah so the structure basically the gut lining by the inclusion of like black human basically that structure was preserved that really surprised me yeah yeah yeah so from a gut perspective so obviously like you've talked about there the structure so for anyone with any sort of permeability issues gut inflammation potentially even things like ibd conditions you would think that this would be offering a lot of benefit yeah for sure i mean like i've spoken about this before but uh ibd conditions so obviously like crohn's and ulcerative colitis colitis they are characterized by excessive epithelial cell death in a nutshell that's what they are which basically means that you have compromisation of the panaceas and you have compromisation of the ices the intestinal stem cells black humans really great around that which as i said that surprised me but uh you know pretty significant literature i mean once again people might argue they did it on mice but i get it hierarchy of research but it doesn't mean that research is not relevant yeah and then so beyond the structural benefits if we still talk about microbiome for a moment even as far as like antimicrobial benefits black human actually performs quite well hey so especially things like h pylori it's one of the more potent antimicrobials there well i guess it's more well known around helicobacter and h pylori and we want to reiterate that h pylori is not the devil so not trying to wipe it out you're just trying to realign the ratios i mean in some cases you could argue elimination may be worthwhile you know there's yeah yeah interesting literature like during pregnancy or people with parkinson's disease stuff like that but yeah obviously it's there's a bit of nuance so yeah it's interesting literature like during pregnancy or people with parkinson's disease stuff like that but yeah obviously it's there's a bit of nuance so yeah it's it's very i mean you can find plenty of literature around the effectiveness of like black cumin black seed oil nigella sativa around uh h pylori helicobacter i'm trying to think if it has been well documented around other bacterial complications there is some around e coli i've definitely seen some there i thought antifungal i believe there's i mean people can check this but i'm pretty sure there's research around candida and other yeast but definitely e coli i've seen that and a lot of time like these natural antibodies and these natural antimicrobials, they do tend to be quite multifaceted. when it comes to their their antimicrobial benefits i guess why we might not focus on something like a black cumin or black seed oil when it comes to like fungal because it's not us saying that it's not effective but there will be other compounds that might be more significant so that's just that i think that's really important to to understand uh where we would say something that black cumin is going to be quite significant against or effective against would be h pylori or helicobacter yeah so yes it has got those benefits and you know when you when you deal with like natural antibiotics and natural antimicrobials you also do want to check you know maybe some of the collateral damage that can occur you know from my understanding uh black cumin is not going to have that collateral damage and what i mean by the collateral damage is like wiping out like your beneficial flora if anything you would say that based on what i was talking about with the panaceas and the panaceas and those antimicrobial peptides play a key role in microbiome homeostasis well ultimately the black cumin is probably going to help with the microbiome homeostasis yeah like you said you wouldn't necessarily use it by itself as an antimicrobial compound but that doesn't mean it doesn't enhance the efficacy of other compounds you know there's studies where they use it alongside antibiotics for example and it's more effective against antibiotic resistant bacteria i believe it's got some antibiofilm properties as well obviously we've talked about using it topically for skin and part of the benefit topically is the antimicrobial antibiofilm properties so definitely adding it in even potentially with some of the other compounds we're going to talk about today would enhance that efficacy well that's really important to mention as well because like some of these compounds we're going to talk about not only can you take it orally but also you can take these things topically or in the instance of what we're going to talk about with curcumin you could take that intranasal and you get a huge amount of benefits as well so i think it's just that's another example of the multi-faceted you know benefits and we've already talked about like you know topical creams but you know with black seed oil you can find stuff around psoriasis and you know acne vulgaris um you know these types of you know even burn wounds and all that type of stuff so skin pigmentation complications so then you even reducing like acne severity so you're getting like even you can turn it into like a what they call like a hydrogel topical hydrogel and then you're getting all these other benefits from it so beyond the antimicrobial benefits let's talk about maybe a bit of immune function type benefits as well i guess that's a little bit linked so obviously we'll talk about i guess like autoimmunity and things in a moment but from an immune standpoint things like viral infections obviously very effective as well hey yeah i mean the one thing even if we talk so this would be related to the immune system as well but you can actually find some stuff around like black human being effective against you know certain types of cancers as well even like cancers like the blood system i think we were talking about this the other day but i was talking about some stuff like you know prostate and even the potential around like prostate cancer but even things like lung cancer and kidney cancer and liver cancer and breast and cervix and so that's pretty impressive yeah do you do like with the with the viral do you know what particular viruses well in particular i was thinking covid i mean obviously there's there's a bit of research around that um i wasn't sure if you wanted to name it but i guess enough time's passed so we can we can say it now maybe hopefully safely i haven't particularly looked at other other viruses i wouldn't be surprised but it's not something i've particularly looked into do you do because i'm not sure to do with things like you know influenza type a and all that type of stuff i'm not sure with like black human but you would think if it's got benefits around covert that's probably going to have some benefits you would assume so yeah again it's not something i've particularly looked into so so people listening along with the interest that they can jump on pubmed and have a look i would assume there would be stuff that would come up i mean definitely like upper respiratory infections like i know that i'm sure i have seen some data there but again i can't exactly quote it but then like like obviously there's just all these other benefits that you get from like black human as well i mean we should mention the thyroid well let's talk about autoimmunity because that would come under it i think just i'm trying to recall what i was thinking of with um upper respiratory i think there's stuff here on asthma does that sound i'm pretty sure i've seen some some decent stuff with black human and asthma actually i mean definitely allergies there's plenty of stuff around allergies but uh i think it might be around high sonophil i mean i guess our big point around like these compounds that we're mentioning you can really find literature to do with a lot of conditions and what you can honestly what i tend to do is if there's a condition i'm thinking about or in a particular health issue often my starting point is i'll look at some of these compounds and i'll be like hey i wonder if if i'm not familiar with any research on it i'll have a look at the ears and nine times out of ten you know whatever the condition is i'm going to look at it and i'm like hey i wonder if if i'm not familiar with any research on it i'll have a look if it is and nine times out of ten you know whatever the condition is i'll look at some of these compounds and i'll be like hey i wonder if if i'm not familiar with any research on it i'll have a look if it is and nine times is whatever the issue is i'll look up you know is anything around nigella sativa and whatever and nine times out of ten there'll be studies on it showing its efficacy and then that and that's the big thing with the with the compounds that we're going to talk about you you might be researching as i was researching around like you know okay what things are going to be great around like penicillin and intestinal stem cells you know there's a certain compounds that you that obviously you know are very good around that and then i go well okay black human tends to be pretty good for like most things i wonder if it's actually good for that and then you actually end up finding that literature exactly so you mentioned but you mentioned thyroid thyroid well obviously you can find stuff around like black human helping with like thyroid antibodies like lowering the thyroid antibodies like tpi b and thyroid globulin i don't know if there is any stuff around like tbg like thyroid binding globulin i've only seen around tpo i mean tpo obviously is the one that's that's talked about a little bit more and it's it's you know arguably the one that i guess we would pay a little bit more attention to but certainly tpo around things like pregnancy is quite interesting and so the fact that black human has that benefit around tpo it's yeah it's it's quite um you know even around fertility i guess that's that's quite interesting well even if the tsh is extremely high because i'm pretty sure like black human black seed or it's pretty good at lowering like tsh if you're trying to get that down that was extremely elevated which is thyroid stimulating hormone yeah it's pretty good around like bringing down some of their elevations in those uh the thyroid antibodies and the tsh so you're getting those benefits and there's also stuff around like black human uh if someone's got a massive elevation like prolactin bear in mind i think they did that research on rabbits don't fully quote me on that but like obviously there's if there's a massive elevation in prolactin obviously prolactin serves a purpose it actually does help with like hydration uh within the brain but also lactation all that type of stuff but it obviously has that inverse relationship with dopamine so if the prolactin is really high again the dopamine can be really low obviously the vice versa is true as well where prolactin can be really low and the dopamine can be very high so you could say that potentially you know black human by actually helping to regulate and modulate and lower the the prolactin actually might have these uh these these benefits around dopamine as well especially if someone's got extremely low dopamine and we do know i mean i guess that segues us into the neurological aspect of it we do know that the studies using in humans using black human seed oil and seeing an improvement in things like mood seeing a reduction in things like cortisol seeing improvements in like a lot of sleep parameters there was one study i think there was like a 17 minute reduction in sleep latency so the time it takes to fall asleep uh in the amount of sleep people were getting that went up when people were taken by cumin seed and not even high doses so you know and subjective well-being during the day as well and i think focus or cognitive function or something as well so you would think based on what you're talking about there is potentially modulating neurotransmitters that would make sense with some of the mood improvements we're seeing as well well also you know uh black human is is really amazing for remyelination within the brain which i think we actually talked about that in when we're actually going down the rabbit hole of talking about sleep we know that like a primary deficit in myelin is actually being linked to circadian rhythm disorders and sleep disorders and and we also know chronic sleep loss actually compromises myelin now conditions that would be linked to uh you know demyelination or demyelinating diseases would be things like ms like multiple sclerosis but also if you've got something like parkinson's you generally have damage to myelin as well and i always say this to people like it's not like you just like wake up one day and just go oh i've got ms you generally had all the all the signs that you were damaged in the myelin because a lot of people a lot of time if you've got myelin sheath behind the optic nerves and the retina you can get like blurred vision but also neurological problems and cognitive issues and then you can have like because obviously you've got myelin sheath in the in the spinal cord as well but then you can have gait issues and spatial awareness issues and all that type of stuff so you can have compromisation of myelin before it actually gets to the point where you've got like a demyelinating disease and so there's certain compounds that help with remyelination and one of those compounds is black cumin and you mentioned that in the context of parkinson's i mean you know if we look at parkinson's for the moment so obviously you've mentioned that potentially could have benefits around dopamine obviously that's very important in parkinson's then you've talked about the myelination and then you know i mentioned um h pylori before because h pylori actually interferes with parkinson's medication and then obviously nigella's the table black human is you know very effective against h pylori so it's like it's just covering so many different aspects in one go and if you want to go down the the path of like saying like maybe indirectly how it's going to help as well because if we talked about the dopamine thing you know ailments that have actually linked to dopamine problems could be things like yes parkinson's again it's the obvious one but obviously things like adhd addiction uh tourette's schizophrenia mental health disorders once again i'm not saying that there's a direct link there but then you know there's potential that it's going to have a knock-on effect to actually helping with uh those types of conditions as well the thing is that you know this is probably a bit of a segue into you something that's not going to be great for the brain anyway if you're getting a lack of sleep or you've got sleep deprivation that's not going to be great remember i said that you know that chronic sleep loss actually will compromise myelin myelin sheath well go look at the stuff around like black human maybe the benefits are actually coming from the remyelination in the brain but if you actually look at the documentation around like black human with sleep well you look at rem sleep which is the one that everybody talks about you know what does it increase rem sleep there's some documentation and research increasing it by about 29 some of the sleep stuff is out of control like such big improvements and then you've got non-rem sleep which is the one that a lot of people don't talk about but that's slow wave sleep which is actually one of the most important forms of sleep that increases it by 82.9 i think it was it's just unbelievable yeah some of the numbers it's like how is this even possible that it's doing this i mean honestly that's for me when i started looking at this sleep literature on black human that's when i started taking it because i was like this is just i can't ignore this this is out of control how effective it seems to be it's actually it's actually i would agree with you on that it's a major reason because you know that i i take it as well that's the major reason i started to take it because it was really also to do with the the myelin aspect like i really like that especially if you're like you're if you're using your brain a lot having the support of like myelin sheath is going to be pretty pretty vital uh and so that's another reason that i i thought yeah this makes sense it showed an increase in melatonin as well didn't it i don't think you've mentioned that yet i'm not i'm not as around uh you know literature around that with like increasing like i believe it was in that study where they looked at sleep latency i think they i think it was that study they also tested cortisol and melatonin levels and there's reduction in cortisol and increase in melatonin but i know there's another very good sleep study and it may have been because it was one that was only done over like a seven day period i think it was that one where they saw that um so it didn't take long at all for it to actually have that positive impact i'm fairly sure that was a study on melatonin but i couldn't say how much it increased it by but i mean even be you mentioned adhd there is some not a lot but there is some research again i think it's animal studies around adhd and black human having benefit but as an extension of some of these neurological conditions um because it's such a potent antioxidant there's a lot of stuff around anxiety depression um even was it there was a particular depression study where they a scale that they use i forget what the scale is called where they're they're assessing um you know major depressive symptoms but there was a significant reduction in that and there's in that same study i believe they actually talk about uh increasing in bdnf levels have you seen that i think i have seen that one i can't i can't remember the actual the percentage okay in terms of the increase in the brain-derived neurotrophic factor but that would not surprise me at all so it's it's hard to think of it's hard to think of neurological issues or symptoms or concerns where it wouldn't be beneficial like almost across the board if i get a client coming to me he's got depression anxiety poor sleep mood issues neurotransmitters basically anything those along those lines one of the first supplements i'm thinking of will be black human yeah and then is it going to cover bases around like just you know just reducing inflammation as well i mean obviously that's that's i mean that's probably the one people think about most commonly would be like gas i mean either that or immune support well and then we you know we talked about this okay like even like in a taking a topical form has the ability to even like reduce even things like tnf alpha inhibiting the expression like tnf alpha and even i mean what were some of the other topical things like it improved like bladder incontinence because of the antioxidant properties it improved uh period pain and i'm sure you can find like plenty of stuff around just like just mitigating oxide stress in general yeah yeah yeah absolutely absolutely one we do need to talk about is its metabolic effects because it's that's also one of the things that's probably most well known for and there was a meta-analysis just released not long ago where they looked at um it was either like type 2 diabetes or insulin resistance and they're looking at what herbal supplements or what herbs had the the most benefit so herbs and spices i think they're looking at and there was a few that i listed and in fact most of the ones i listed we're going to talk about today but nigella sativa was one of those who certainly had benefits around blood sugar management and insulin sensitivity but because of that it's one of those things that we're going to talk about today but i think it's probably one of the best compounds you could use on fatty liver in terms of improvement in liver enzymes ast alt it's i think it's probably one of my go to like it would be the first supplement i'd reach for fatty couldn't you even say like isn't there some documentation if someone had like a significant raise in like billy rubin like isn't it black cumin like pretty good i believe it is yeah um i can't remember specifically but i was i do remember looking a bit into um billy rubin not long ago i can't remember the the actual like you know research paper but i thought there was some stuff around like black cumin helping to lower total billy rubin now i'm not saying whether that's more around like direct or indirect but just i think that might have been just in relation to total billy rubin so does that mean you're getting some you know benefits around the gallbladder and the biliary ducts and all that type of stuff so yeah is it also covering that base i'm trying i'm i feel like i'm getting mixed up with berberine so i don't want to say because i know there was one study where they had it was mice with with hype what do they call it hyperbola what do they call that when it says high billy rubin um and one of those two compounds significantly reduced the high billy rubin but i think maybe it is berberine but there's probably research on black cumin as well i mean obviously you know from a liver perspective it's it's absolutely amazing beyond and even lipids as well i mean we didn't mention lipids but there's the with like lipid skewing so hgl lel levels has been shown to improve that as well and then other markers that are generally associated with metabolic dysfunction and you know fatty liver stuff like crp obviously it's got benefits around crp i mean more inflammation more generally but it's um i mean yeah from a metabolic standpoint it just covers all those bases but we don't want to turn into a podcast just about black human yeah yeah we certainly could i mean i don't know if you just want to mention briefly about black cumin i mean i don't know if you just want to mention briefly about specifically just around like dose i mean obviously dose changes a little bit depending on what we're using it for i mean some of the sleep benefits you don't need much at all some of them were found with very very low dosing and then the the metabolic stuff that tends to be where it needs a higher dose i imagine some of the the stuff around remyelination you probably want a higher dose as well yeah yeah i can't remember the exact dose that you require but i mean obviously if you are taking a liquid form okay you know sometimes once again it just totally depends on what type of issues you're dealing with but some people can go as high as like you know one teaspoon twice a day yeah and obviously getting like you know 5.69 grams in a teaspoon and obviously you can get like different potencies as well and sometimes people can go for like a stronger potency but that like for me it would look maybe if it was just for the sleep scenario you know the sleep scenario and helping with the rem sleep and non-rem sleep you might not need to go such a a real high dose but maybe if you're if you're requiring it for maybe some of the aspects around oxidative stress and helicobacter and h pylori like maybe that dosage is going to have to come up a little bit more similar to the dose you mentioned before some of the antioxidant benefits so you don't need much at all i mean when you look at topically a lot of the topical studies it's unbelievable how little they use i'll use like two drops like it's nothing like two drops twice a day so and that seems to have significant benefit and then like you said with the the sleep benefits you don't need much at all so if you're using a liquid you'd probably suggest somewhere between half a teaspoon to two teaspoons a day depending on what you're trying to get out of it um i just want to mention i've actually had it up on my computer that bilirubin study i was talking about it actually was nigella sativa and it was showing like i was yeah yeah it was a 2016 study um and it's reduced elevated levels of bilirubin so even i mean you'd think then based on based on that potentially even stuff like gilbert's disease you could have benefit yeah so it really is covering like a huge amount of bases yeah once again we might have pushback on what compounds like people think they should be actually having you know more regularly so we should move on to another one so let's go to do we go to curcumin curcumin yeah okay cool yeah do you think curcumin can somewhat be sort of like you know persecuted a little bit totally yeah like you know more to do obviously with uh you know the iron scenario yeah absolutely i actually posted about that today um yeah i mean do you want to just mention that quickly i don't know if i want to go too far down that rabbit hole no i think we can cover in like 30 seconds so basically in functional medicine you'll often hear people say don't take curcumin if you've got low iron or if you're prone to low iron or anemia or anything like that don't take it and they say that a chelate sign which does and that it's going to cause you to become anemic but it bothers me that entire way thinking i mean firstly it's mechanistic which is okay like yes you know everything that has an outcome is based on mechanism but sometimes that mechanism doesn't always play out in humans right exactly and it's okay to have a hypothesis of how it should work but then we've obviously got to try and back that up in the literature and then when we do get literature that doesn't show it it might not work like that exactly when the literature then shows that's not what's happening then we don't know what's going to happen so that's kind of my issue here is i think people aren't listening to that so what we do have the we have at some animal studies that show in like anemic animals curcumin isn't beneficial like it can actually inhibit iron absorption in anemic animals most research in animals is in iron overload and it has benefit around iron overload but that's you know that's different to saying it's going to cause someone to become anemic there's one documented case study of a elderly male post-cancer treatment post-hormonal treatment and he was taking very high dose turmeric. What's interesting actually in that, documented case study is he actually had low hemoglobin before any of this started and what's what i find interesting is they say he had normal hemoglobin but his hemoglobin levels was 140 which for a male is relatively low so he actually started off with low hemoglobin even though they neglected to mention that then he did i think it was prostate cancer treatment i don't fully recall um some kind of hormonal treatment and then he started self-medicating with very high doses of turmeric which again we're not even recommending turmeric and he experienced anemia and that is the only documented case in the literature of curcumin or some derivative of curcumin doing this but we have studies in 150 people where they gave them curcumin alongside iron supplements and measured iron absorption and it didn't change iron absorption and in fact we've got studies where they use curcumin with iron supplements and they show that it enhances the immune system and it enhances the immune system and it enhances the immune system and efficacy of the iron supplement because it reduces the inflammation and the side effects of the iron supplement so in in that research actually said curcumin should be should be added to people who are supplementing with iron there you go so that was more than 30 seconds but so i mean i think we can sort of like you know clear that one up because that would be always the pushback that that actually i would generally say that's one of the major pushbacks that people would have around like curcumin yeah but let's say we can maybe put that one to rest and look if you want to play it safe and don't use super mega high doses with someone who's an enemy go for gold because what we're going to talk about here is you actually get a huge amount of these benefits from relatively low doses a lot of the even yeah even i mean yeah there might be certain instances where to see the benefits you not might need to put up you know push up the dosage look yeah maybe if there's like ibd conditions and obviously we'll talk about the benefits that curcumin you know definitely has when it comes to the gut lining like maybe for ibd conditions you might push up in the realms of like you know 2003 or something like that but you don't have to push up the dosage of like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know like you know but also there's like documentation of people you know for things like cancers and so forth like pushing up even just like cardiovascular issues pushing up the dosage as high as like 8 000 milligrams and that's not me telling people to go out and have like eight days 8 000 milligrams but people have actually pushed up the dosage you know that high but likewise there's also studies using like 500 milligrams and it has a really significant impact around gi symptoms cebo symptoms even around the brain they were using like uh you know like you know like you know like you know like you know as low as like 200 milligrams but then bear in mind sometimes they pushed up the dosage even higher like to 1820 milligrams like over 8 to 12 weeks and even the low dose was actually shown to significantly increase we already talked about this with black human like bdnf brain derived neurotrophic factor which obviously repairs neurons in the brain helps the formation of new neurons as well so even like the lower doses they were actually seeing some of those benefits as well so um so yes it can be relatively low dose where you're going to see some significant improvements yeah so should we get into like do we start with gut do we start with gut or do we keep going with neurological because you've just sort of touched on some of those yeah well okay let's let's keep on going with the neurological so i talked about like you know you can see these benefits with uh brain derived neurotrophic factor like also curcumin is pretty good around like neurodegenerative diseases yeah so curcumin has been trying to have like sort of protective effects against like some neurodegenerative diseases i'm not going to say like all of them but i'm going to say that curcumin is pretty good for all of them it's definitely going to have you know huge benefits around the brain the other thing is that what what is obviously going to be you know real problematic around the brain it's going to be high amounts of information especially when it comes like you know one thing that's really bad around like myelin we're talking about myelin is going to be high amounts of like pro-inflammatory proteins and pro-inflammatory cytokines and so forth and so forth well taking like a like taking curcumin is actually really good around like anti-inflammatory uh also it's got high amounts of antioxidant properties when it comes to certain like markers that would be a reflection of high amounts of information it was actually shown to significantly reduce things like interleukin-6 which we don't want to say aisle six is all bad but even like uh crp but i'm pretty sure it's high sensitivity crp and even things like mda levels now all the things i'm talking about there they're markers of inflammation and oxidative stress and those things like when you've got high amounts of information it's not going to be great for the brain yeah you know is there something else that happens i mean there is i believe there's some research around stuff like cognitive function and like memory as well um but a lot of that's probably coming down to those antioxidant effects that you're talking about and anti-inflammatory effects and even like when you were saying that i was thinking because obviously it's got really good data around fatty liver as well and some of the symptoms of fatty liver i mean they're hard to put your finger on symptoms of fatty liver but a lot of them are actually more neurological in nature and so it makes me wonder you know like in what way is the curcumin helping like it's helping probably across the board i don't know if you've heard of curcumin but curcumin is an anti-inflammatory and anti-inflammatory drugs so curcumin helps you get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it helps you to get rid of that autoimmune reaction and it issue around that would be the delivery with curcumin because it's not water soluble and so that could be problematic and try to administer that like intranasal but obviously you can sort of like work around that i remember actually looking at some research where they looked at it was like intra cerebral hemorrhage so it's like sort of like a sub type of like stroke basically and they actually had mice that were that actually suffered like intra cerebral hemorrhage and they actually showed that the intranasal curcumin improved blood brain barrier damage and they actually say that the delivery even though it can be hard but the delivery like intranasal but the the benefits of doing like an intranasal administration is that it provides a direct route for the curcumin nanoparticles from the nasal cavity to the brain and so what they actually think that they like an intranasal curcumin might actually be better around promoting recovery from like neurological conditions and neurological function issues i'm not saying that definitively because you're still going to get the benefits taken orally yeah yeah but maybe potentially the delivery intranasal could could be better if if yeah if we're talking about directly for the blood brain barrier in the brain that's just a bit of a side note uh and then one more i want to mention before we move on to gut is uh depression and anxiety as well especially depression there's really good literature on curcumin and depression again that's probably coming down to the anti-inflammatory antioxidant benefits it's got um but again that's that's one almost across the board if i've got a client who's got you know depression anxiety symptoms black human curcumin is a combo that i would almost always use yeah i mean like probably these two out of all the compounds we're going to talk about they seem to probably be the almost the two most significant i think so i think the next one would give them a run for their money as well but i would say it's hard pressed to beat these two we're just talking about how many different realms they're covering so let's talk about gut well i mean curcumin covers a lot when it comes to the gut let me maybe make it relatable to like almost like it's a bit of a shoot-off here between the curcumin and the black human again well uh curcumin is really good around like um like penicillin now the reason it's actually really good around like penicillin is curcumin was actually shown to increase the expression of like antimicrobial peptides or amps like when they've done research around curcumin they actually showed that you know curcumin can actually help with like the so the fourth like there's all these different layers of the gut lining curcumin definitely reduces Oxa stress in the gut lining helps with the repair of GI epithelial tissue like all these benefits they say that these antimicrobial peptides are like the fourth layer of the intestinal barrier and so the and so the panaceas obviously contain high amounts of like the amps the antimicrobial peptides or curcumin helps with the expression of those antimicrobial peptides so it's almost like not only is it helping with like the different layers of the gut lining it's actually helping with like the fourth layer that no one really talks about and so it's also really good around like structures within the gut lining especially like tie junction proteins and so studies actually show that curcumin exposure increases the expression of tight junction proteins and that was actually shown in things like zonulin which is like the gatekeeper and so obviously if there's an overstimulation of zonulin that can actually lead to the traditional form of like leaky gut or intestinal permeability which is hyperpermeability which is a type of damage to the gut lining but it also actually helped with Chloridin like Chloridin one as well and so basically it can actually help to reduce like paracellular permeability or too much transcellular activity that's what they say it doesn't have benefits to the actual epithelium themselves either sure sure and so one of those benefits there is it's actually going to reduce the amount of like endotoxins like polysaccharides it's going to enter the blood from the gut and exactly for me for many reasons yeah because it's helping with the tightening but it's also helping the amps and and it's even helping I mean we haven't got to this yet but from a microbiome perspective it's helping with the number of different mechanisms it's helping reduce endotoxins and what's interesting with that is and we'll talk about it in a moment but curcumin from a liver health perspective is one of the best compounds as well and if we look at things like liver health one of the the biggest detriments of that is circulating levels of endotoxins so it's actually helping prevent that before it even becomes an issue and and like I mentioned I think I already mentioned it before but if there's a decrease in ANPs antimicrobial peptides you get more bacterial translocation from it that's like liver that's spleen that's pancreas obviously that would be your brain as well so increasing the expression of the antimicrobial peptides is going to mitigate that bacterial translocation so just from that perspective as well it's just covering so many bases I mean there's other is there other things I mean I'm talking like i don't want to cover like every single aspect yeah yeah i mean from a microbiome perspective maybe we just quickly touch on that so obviously it's been shown to help promote good bacteria i believe there's some research even around stuff like acomancia and then it's been shown to obviously have antimicrobial effects i mean even h pylori there's there's some research there similar to the black human not as potent but certainly still some research um and then even i believe hydrogen sulfide bacteria have you seen some of that i i haven't seen that documentation but it would have surprised me no but i mean i guess because it's helping with virulence factors too a so it's it's and biofilm so i guess it's one thing i forgot to mention like curcumin also has huge benefits around intestinal stem cells because i sees the major progenitor cell within the gut lining because it helps with mitophagy and so mitophagy is like an autophagy so it actually helps to protect intestinal stem cells from metabolic stress damage it's just covering that base as well do we want to talk about it from like uh an immunity perspective like that's that's probably a pretty big one well do maybe i talk about like the i'm going to go back to the intranasal yeah i was thinking you should probably segue back to that yeah the intranasal curcumin film spray was actually shown to help with uh even aspects around like avian influenza uh avian influenza a so that's actually one of the most common viruses isolated from like wild domestic birds and curcumin was actually had it like it basically has a direct effect on viral particle infectivity so this is a very common virus and it's a very common virus and it's a very common disease and so this has actually been observed in things like influenza a virus uh and even avian influenza uh a subtype so i think you can actually find documentation where it would it actually worked against eight different strains of like influenza type a it's huge now also like a curcumin uh nasal film spray was effective at preventing viral infection when it came to covid and on top of that like influenza so it basically demonstrates like anti-influenza activity so how it does that it basically abolishes what's called like a virus cell attachment so this is pretty significant huge benefits from uh from a from an antiviral perspective yeah yeah i mean even beyond that like i've seen stuff around um things like hepatitis and i think there's even research on hiv isn't there with curcumin you can definitely find research around like that i don't know how conclusive this is okay but there was research they were doing around curcumin with uh even ebola yeah now that's not me saying that curcumin is a remedy for no we're not saying it's necessarily going to treat these things per se but it's it's good but if it was having some effectiveness against ebola i mean hardly nothing really works against ebola yeah you know around covid okay i think that you can actually find uh stuff around um omicron as well where it was pretty effective around the omicron variant i'm pretty sure with covid because you mentioned it it sort of stopped like uh inhibited like the the cell binding didn't you is that what you said with the yeah well the virus cell attachment like yeah they say yeah but i think with covid it it inactivated the the viral particle of covid as well so there's multiple different things it's doing from a viral perspective well even uh you just sort of jog my memory you know stuff around like uh ebv like epstein-barr virus well curcumin's what is i'm trying to remember what curcumin actually does around like ebv but i mean how many people are impacted by you know ebv yeah because a lot of time it's asymptomatic isn't it well they say what is it 95 percent of like individuals worldwide impacted and it doesn't like covid actually create like a reactivation of the ebv virus so i think what curcumin might be actually able to do i should try to pick up the research paper is uh i think it can actually reduce the total amount of the ebv positive cells that's pretty big yeah like you know what epstein-barr virus can't it be linked to things like multiple sclerosis and ibd conditions and celiac and type 1 diabetes and lymph node issues and cancers and all that type of stuff so yeah curcumin's i mean even from an antiviral perspective like there's studies where they combine it even because we we mentioned you know what by itself okay maybe it won't necessarily treat these things but actually when you combine it with antiviral um medication the studies that showed it increases the efficacy of the medication as well you can you can find some stuff around curcumin with uh chemotherapeutic agents yeah like enhancing the effectiveness of the chemotherapeutic agents which flies in the face of what they initially thought yeah because they thought oh you shouldn't take curcumin because it's got like obviously like powerful antioxidants and all that type of stuff but it actually enhanced the effectiveness of the chemotherapeutic agents or just one last thing just even aspects around like respiratory i know i seem obsessed with the intranasal curcumin but i am obsessed with it because i just did so much research around it but that was actually just that even the intranasal curcumin didn't work for me so i just did so much research around it but that was actually just that even the intranasal curcumin didn't work for me so i just did so much research around it but that was actually just that even the curcumin didn't work for me so i just did so much research around it but that was actually just that even the intranasal curcumin was pretty effective at so like actually helping with like airway inflammation that means it's going to actually help with aspects around like asthma respiratory problems there's even some stuff around like allergic reactions like allergic like chronic rhinitis or those those types of complications as well and then metabolically i mentioned that meta-analysis where black cumin was listed curcumin is one of the other things that's listed there as well in terms of helping with blood sugar management was they actually gave they quantified and said this is how much of reduction there would be in in blood glucose um and you know obviously we're not talking you know miles and miles of it but it did significantly reduce blood glucose levels and that's not if someone had a blood sugar issue arguably curcumin's not the first supplement that comes to mind but it is still helping you know like that's what i find interesting in some of these compounds where it's like you know what we're using it mainly as an anti-inflammatory or for immune benefits or you know whatever it might be but it's actually helping these other things you're not even thinking about um obviously fatty liver non-alcoholic fatty liver disease insurance reduce ast and alt help with lipid markers you can find plenty of stuff around cardiovascular complications as well yeah i mean it covers so many bases yeah i think there's even some some of the like metabolic studies where there was like reduction in bmi even uh which you know again obviously we're not going to use curcumin to for fat loss but there's there's some research suggesting it could actually help and even with um like like fat tissue inflammation reducing the inflammation there so again that could potentially have the benefit too i guess they're probably the the sort of key things we'd be thinking about i mean i'm sure there's more yeah i mean like like literally in the moment moment in time of this podcast that we're just like oh we forgot to talk about that um i mean i i think you know well the message we're trying to get across is as people can start to understand oh my god i didn't realize it just covered this amount of this many bases yeah it's not it's not an exhaustive list of all of the things it does it's simply you know what about what about neurological stuff oh my god it's good there what about liver health oh my goodness it's good there what about gut oh it's good there you know like the point we're making is just at every turn curcumin's got benefits exactly do we want to mention some other ones yes yes we may not go into as much death than some of these other ones but probably the next one that would come to mind would be berberine now berberine i mean that's this has been very popular over the last couple of years because it's been referred to as i mean initially it is referred to more as nature's metformin but then now with ozone peak and glp-1 drugs it's it's being called nature's ozone peak um which you know is probably a bit of an overblown statement but certainly from a metabolic standpoint maybe we'll start there it's it's one of probably the most effective natural supplement i mean you compare it to things like metformin and there's research that shows it's as effective as metformin so type 2 diabetes do we just want to mention like obviously there's different forms like berberine yeah you know a lot of people talk about dihydroberberine obviously being like more bioavailable okay like one thing we want to say is that if you actually look at a lot of the literature that a high majority of the literature on berberine hcl yeah most of it is yeah um but you know you are getting more companies that are bringing out like you know berberine phytosome and all that type of stuff but we're not dismissing the other forms of like berberine but we're just saying that most of the literature is actually done on the berberine hcl yeah and so if we if we're talking about this literature that's most the time what we're talking about unless we probably stayed otherwise yeah but obviously you know berberine it's really good for the glute for transporter for people who don't know what i'm talking about helps to drive glucose in the cell for energy that's why they call it so it obviously glucose homeostasis and that's why they call it like nature's metformin yeah or you said that they're starting to call it nature's olympic yeah i didn't know that uh yes it definitely does have those those benefits i mean is there much more that you want to sort of elaborate on that uh from a lipid perspective i think it's really interesting i don't know if you've seen some of the research where um even like people who are on statins and they look at berberine well i've definitely seen stuff around like lowering like ldl cholesterol but even like things like ldl particles because we would say like the the better indication of like cardiovascular risk is going to be the ldl particles which i never measure i can't remember which particles because most of the time it'd be like you know ldl particle number one ldl particle number three but i think it was pretty good around the ldl particles from from memory so i have seen some of that and triglycerides i mean amazing with high triglycerides and with the statin thing what i want to mention so it increases the efficacy of statins obviously well i say obviously i mean we're not personally huge if someone this is actually something if i've got clients who are statins or more likely say they've got family members who on statins this is where i would invite them to look at the research combining berberine with statins because it makes it more effective and reduces the dose of the statin that and you know arguably i could you could say that berberine by itself is probably going to be adequate but at the very least we can point to research you can see what synergistic effect it has so from a lipid perspective amazing blood sugar perspective just you know out of this world as far as how effective it is um even things like like liver fat obviously very good there as well um i guess probably the main ones metabolically i mean even like there's studies with like reduction in bmi and helping with obesity and even anecdotally like i get a lot of clients who say that they experience um sort of easier fat loss when they're taking berberine and again i'm not giving it to clients for the goal of fat loss right like i i don't personally i don't think that there's any supplements that are really going to massively enhance fat loss but it's hard to to deny that anecdotally some people do report that yeah and even like uh you know maybe some of the benefits around that that doesn't you know people don't necessarily have to go too high with the dose of the like the berberine to actually get those benefits do they no should we move to the gut yeah let's talk about the gut okay so one thing with like berberine does actually have benefits around the actual gut lining itself we obviously know it has got antimicrobial antifungal benefits we'll touch on that but it is it's actually been shown to actually help with aspects around like the intestinal epithelial type junctions by sort of like reducing like prime time g cytokines i think we talked about this research where they gave you 25 milligrams up to about 50 milligrams per kilo of body weight uh they had two groups of rats and mice that both had uc i think it was ulcerative colitis obviously there was one group that actually gave the the berberine to and that minimized the amount of mucosal damage and the amount of inflammation taking place within the gut lining so it does actually have you know benefits around the gut lining itself the other reason it's going to have benefits around the gut is because it's got antibacterial antifungal it helps to decrease things like candida overgrowth and obviously we're talking about like the more virulent forms here it's really good around like hydrogen ions even hydrogen sulfide it's pretty well documented so obviously we're talking about you know sebo with sebo like there's actually some studies showing that it increases good bacteria as well so stuff like acomancia i've definitely seen documentation there i think there's i feel like i've seen documentation on lactobacillus as well i'd have to double check that one but certainly acomancia and that's interesting with acomancia because that could help not just with potentially you'd say that could help with like intestinal inflammation and sort of structure but it could even help with um with blood sugar management potentially and you were talking about some of the benefits from your own structure isn't it also research with increasing mucus like density it's animal research but it was like mucus something to do with more mucus in the small intestine which obviously would translate to better better intestinal health i mean i can't i can't remember seeing that research but uh look i'm sure i'm sure it probably does have that benefit but i just can't remember the the research or the study it i mean obviously it's got huge amounts of benefits around the gut lining i mean you would say uh when it comes to the brain it's touching on that i've actually talked about this i think i talked about this in another podcast where this was actually in relation to toxoplasma gondii which we did a podcast on that toxoplasmosis which has actually been linked to like cysts in the brain okay but it's been linked to a lot of like mental health symptoms and mental health disorders and that includes things like autism and schizophrenia and antisocial behavioral disorder and depression anxiety all that type of stuff well interesting enough berberine in recent years has been linked to a lot of benefits around the brain um and the research was actually shown to help with memory disturbances that were actually induced by the toxoplasma gondii infection so that obviously means that berberine is actually helping with the brain that's one of the most significant ones that i can think of but even you're getting like hormonal benefits with like berberine as well aren't you like berberine hasn't it been documented around uh actually helping with like you know progesterone i think there's good documentation with pcos there's certainly stuff around um like reducing elevated androgen levels in women with pcos yeah i mean obviously with pcos it's helping across the board because it's going to help with the insulin as well which you know usually is going to be effective with pcos so i mean berberine honestly it would be it would have to be one of the first supplements you'd reach for for pcos it would be for sebo i mean we didn't even particularly mention sebo much but obviously it's an antimicrobial in sebo protocols berberines i mean it's it's up there with it's probably the most well i mentioned it around the hydrogen ions and hydrogen sulfide and it is really good around that and then you know sometimes you know there could be a a conversation around the dose that you need yeah but aren't some people saying that you you might need up to you know five thousand like milligrams like yeah up to yeah and even with parasites anywhere between about three thousand to five thousand milligrams yeah with some of those things yeah going high dose like parasites you could arguably go high very high dose as well stuff like um oh help me out here not blasto not dentamoeba not not like an intamoeba or no no yeah yeah yeah guardian that's what i was thinking yeah yeah high dose with guardia like they say up to about five thousand milligrams i believe there but berberine is meant to be one of the most effective compounds there yeah well once again i will i don't think we're doing it justice because we might be skimming over a little bit i think the interesting with berberine the interesting thing there is that so like with black cumin and curcumin arguably you could say it has more diverse application and obviously berberine is still very diverse but the interesting thing with berberine is the things that it is doing it's doing the best so from like a you know when we talk about blood sugar arguably it's doing that the best when you're talking about pcos it's it's probably doing that the best when you're talking about sebo antimicrobials it's probably doing that the best like there's not many things that are going to be better than that and what's cool is again at the low dose it still has some of these benefits you mentioned low dose metabolically like they're talking 500 to 1000 milligrams of some of that and then even there's some studies now on on like things like dysbiosis and not so much around like killing off significant like things like dysbiosis and not so much around like killing off significant overgrowth but overgrowth but overgrowth but in terms of modulating microbiome and having in terms of modulating microbiome and having in terms of modulating microbiome and having some symptomatic benefit they're talking like some symptomatic benefit they're talking like some symptomatic benefit they're talking like isn't this studies using like 100 or 200 isn't this studies using like 100 or 200 isn't this studies using like 100 or 200 milligrams like really really low doses milligrams like really really low doses milligrams like really really low doses and seeing benefit and seeing benefit and seeing benefit yeah and that's it and that's it that's yeah and that's it and that's it that's yeah and that's it and that's it that's another point that we want to get across another point that we want to get across another point that we want to get across is it doesn't always mean that you need is it doesn't always mean that you need is it doesn't always mean that you need to go up to these higher to go up to these higher to go up to these higher doses yes sometimes for certain ailments doses yes sometimes for certain ailments doses yes sometimes for certain ailments and conditions you might need to go up and conditions you might need to go up and conditions you might need to go up that high but there's nothing wrong with that high but there's nothing wrong with that high but there's nothing wrong with taking a low dose of these certain taking a low dose of these certain taking a low dose of these certain compounds compounds compounds and doing that for an extended period of and doing that for an extended period of and doing that for an extended period of time just to actually help with time just to actually help with That would be more like a maintenance dose, yeah. And sometimes you could say that might be more effective. I mean, again, if you look at some of the literature on the metabolic benefits of berberine, you're not necessarily getting more out of going higher. You're getting more out of going lower and doing that for longer. So should we cover maybe one or two more? Yeah, let's do these ones a little bit quicker. Maybe you go one, I go one. Look, a one that I rate, but I'm not necessarily saying that everyone needs to take it, would be quercetin. I know there could be a bit of murkiness with that one. The only reason I want to mention it, because I do think it, like a lot of things that we've been talking about when it comes to brain, neurological, gut, inflammation, it does cover all those bases. Yeah. Yes, like as a powerful bioflavonoid, it's been shown to enhance like intestinal tight junction through the assembly and expression of like tight junction proteins. I'm just trying to maybe use an example of like, you know, each one. The other thing is, it is great around the brain. I think I've talked about this in another podcast, maybe where they looked at a study of the impact, they did like high altitude induced brain damage in rats. And after treatment with quercetin, the cerebral edema in the brain tissues was improved with the use of, with the use of quercetin. So it does have those benefits around the neurologically as well. And even like, if you're looking at the immune system, this might've been more around when they use like quercetin and curcumin together, but that actually helped with like replication in, in, in regards to like COVID. I mean, quercetin's obviously got a pretty potent antiviral. Yeah, I mean, like, even like it was actually shown to ensure like a speedy recovery after like, uh, early stages of like respiratory viruses as well. Uh, another thing with quercetin was actually shown to prevent, um, intestinal stem cell or ISC like aging. So it maintains like a, like an intestinal homeostasis and even accelerates the, um, so if there's damage to the intestines, it accelerates the, the recovery of the damage to the intestines. So it does, it does. It does really cover a lot of bases. And obviously the benefits around mast cells and, and histamine. Stabilizing mast cell activity and, you know, uh, stuff around just oxidative stress in general. It does cover a lot of bases, but we're just saying it's more like an honorable mention. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely honorable mention. One that we would both use in a lot of our protocols. I think the only reason, um, we wouldn't necessarily list this amongst the other ones is that there's probably slightly more cases where you wouldn't use it. Uh, just compared to some of those other supplements we've mentioned. And that doesn't mean that, you know, it's a dangerous supplement or anything, but there are just some times where that person might not be the right person for that. And where, so other supplements we've mentioned so far, you could almost give that to anyone and they'll get benefit. Correct. Correct. They're just certain things that you might have to be a little bit mindful of. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, one that I wanted to mention is pycnogenol, which I probably don't shut up about, but it's. And this is probably slightly different to quercetin where it's one, I think you could basically give it to anyone and get benefit out of it, but is it going to be as effective at any one thing? Probably not. It's kind of got benefits across the board that are like a little bit more minor. So if we look at neurological stuff around ADHD, um, stuff like cognitive function, it actually has quite a lot of benefit there, uh, even stuff like helping with, with jet lag, it has benefit. Then if we look at things like, um, even performance. performance, like potentially performance in the gym there's some research showing it could help especially like around endurance and help with nitric oxide and blood circulation but yeah from a performance standpoint it seems to have benefit uh even from like um i mean it's a really potent antioxidant so stuff like pain it seems to be quite beneficial there's studies in a number of different pain conditions even stuff like endometriosis um joint pain it's really good around back pain there's even studies in in pregnancy with back pain and alleviating um back pain in the third trimester so from like a an antioxidant anti-inflammatory pain perspective neurological perspective focus perspective performance perspective it's just got benefits across the board it does have some gut benefits it's got some some mild antimicrobial benefits and you know there's still going to be benefit there but is it gonna is it gonna have the same kind of effect around the gut and the gut lining something like a curcumin or black cumin probably not but arguably it's still one of those ones that you could kind of throw it in and just get you know so many different benefits from it you know one last thing is that there's probably some other compounds that we thought about putting in there you know ginger yeah that would be an honorable mention as well i think would be in a similar category as pinogenol where it does so many things you can kind of give to just about anyone you know inflammation amazing period pain amazing metabolic stuff amazing prokinetic antimicrobial antibiofilm but is it doing any one of those things the best and it exactly it just it's just probably not in the same category if we're talking about bang for your buck and more potent as a as a curcumin or black cumin but it does cover like so many bases as you said like even modulating like serotonin signaling you know supports you know gastrogempting and yeah even inhibiting the the bacteria that causes like gum inflammation so a lot of those bacterial strains they can actually make up sebo so it might even have like benefits around that yeah i think if you have a bacteria that causes you to get into some of those compounds you've mentioned i think that's where it could be really interesting you know add it to a berberine or curcumin exactly but we're saying like you know just sort of by itself yeah is it potent enough that it's gonna it's it's it's really gonna have like a a massive uh impact on you know serious health ailments but it's sort of like nature's like yeah it's it's great around nausea isn't it it's like nature's like absolutely yeah yeah and the cool thing with ginger is it's it is like one that's safe during pregnancy as well so you're getting a lot of those benefits as well yeah i think that's a really good point yeah yeah i think you've mentioned and you can actually because most things during pregnancy you can't take berberine you probably can't take quercetin um but ginger is cool because you're getting a bit of benefit across the board and you could take that during pregnancy but like you said nausea i mean it's it's unrivaled for nausea well the other one we thought about is allison you can actually take that during pregnancy as well yeah yeah true but that was just one of those ones as well it is potent but we just thought it does have you know microbial yeah you know benefits it is pretty good around things like staphylococcus and it's got antifungal sort of like benefits as well and uh stuff around h pylori but we just even though yes you're getting all these benefits like blood thinning and lipid doing yeah like ldl particles and ldl cholesterol and all that type of stuff but we just didn't know if it's one of those ones that is everybody going to get like benefit from that yeah yeah yeah exactly right i think it's it's i think it's like second tier um yeah i certainly don't use it anywhere near as often as i use those other supplements but i do still use it i've got garlic at home i do like i cycle garlic myself i do use it myself sometimes but like you said those other ones it's like man who would you not use that with and the quality like everything okay can be a big thing with like yeah you know it's only a few brands that are really doing things like the das like the dial trisulfide and you're not necessarily going to get that from all the aged garlics out there exactly exactly accessibility to to the compounds and how expensive they are and stuff sort of weighs into it a little bit too yeah so there are some other compounds that would fall into especially that sort of second tier where we think you know across the board that have so many benefits but that's you know that's maybe a conversation for another day second tier compound obligatory podcast yeah second part two podcast um but one of the points i guess we wanted to make not just beyond how good these particular supplements are what we wanted to show is that supplements out there that do more than one thing you know they do so many different things well and like we mentioned at some point that some of these supplements you could literally pull up from pub med search up just about any condition and there's probably going to be research showing that they're beneficial for that and that's kind of what we wanted to nail and take home is that you know what when there's an issue going on or there's whatever symptom or whatever you're thinking that just does that one thing and it doesn't have any other benefit like they're the supplements i don't like using when i look at a supplement i'm like it does this one thing and that's it i always ask myself what else can i use you know is there something i can use that's going to do two things or four things or ten things like black cumin seed or curcumin and that's why we wanted to illustrate that there's supplements out there that are genuinely good for just about anything you can think of well i always talk about like don't get caught up in the shiny object where you know something that's obscure but it works on that mechanism no not maybe it does it works on that mechanism extremely well yes i know a lot of times it's not sexy if you say curcumin and a black cumin it's not sexy okay but they're just covering so many bases because they're covering so many bases you're not you're not really going to get it wrong yeah and it's going to have some significant benefits it's covering bases you're not even aware of you're not even thinking about things and it's helping with that exactly and that's going to be a better approach because if you are going for something that's more direct it's working on a particular pathway is there a chance if you're not interpreting bloods properly or you're not you're misreading things there is a chance that you could get it wrong exactly exactly why not take a safer approach yeah i'm just echoing what you're saying i'm just going to shut up now but these yeah these are definitely the types of supplements we want you guys to think about it even as even as we're sort of concluding i think to myself oh my gosh i forgot to mention that and you know the the stuff you're in ginger and hay fever like it's as effective as as hay fever medication and you know black cumin and hay fever amazing and black cumin and helping with milk supply during lactation like there's so many other benefits we didn't even touch on well we're scraping the surface really exactly we just use we're using those things as an example yeah and that's all it was really yeah okay we better wrap up before we get stuck talking about more benefits that come to mind so thank you guys for listening hopefully it's i guess giving you a bit of a different perspective as to how to think about supplements and don't just think about supplement for the one thing but think what's going to have a little bit more of a multifaceted benefit here so thank you guys for listening and hopefully you'll join us for another episode thanks so much for listening guys as always we hope this podcast was helpful if you want to continue to connect with us our social media profiles are linked in the show notes and don't forget the contents of this podcast are for educational purposes only none of the information provided in a gut feeling is intended to treat diagnose or give medical advice so if you're please consult a healthcare professional before making any changes to your lifestyle