The Best Places to Travel This Summer and Beyond

Hi there, I'm Lalle Arikoglu, and this podcast is brought to you by Wilderness, a conservation-driven hospitality company that offers intimate wildlife encounters in extraordinary remote landscapes. Last year, I embarked on two separate solo adventures with Wilderness, one to Botswana and the other to Namibia, where the expert guides delivered a "truly" once in a lifetime experience. I promise you, whatever you watch and see before you go, won't prepare you for the thrill of a Wilderness adventure. Hello there, oh, you're already laughing at me. Hello there, I'm Lalle Arikoglu, and with me today on Women Who Travel, our two familiar voices is Megan Sparrell, Associate Articles Director at Traveller and Women Who Travel. I was going to say what are we even called for? An Artie Menon, another familiar voice, Global, Global, yes, Global Digital, I'm Ms. Wild Wide, Global Digital Director, also at Traveller. Summer is rolling along, we are already travelling all over both in the US, and internationally I've got some trips behind me and still some trips ahead, and I know that both of you do as well. This is going to be a really basic dumb question, but I want to start with it because I think sometimes in the travel space, we kind of talk a lot about how summer is overcrowded, it's over-touristed, it's, you know, it's crazy travel season for flights, it's stressful, and we kind of forget that it's summer, and I just want to know why you love summer travel. I was going to say, I never forget about summer travel, I'm waiting all year long. I just think no matter how old you get, and even if you're still in office that excitement of summer, and it's going to be hot out, and you're going to just get to have long days, somewhere warm, that never wears off. Even though my summer travel plans aren't all warm weather, I still feel like that energy is there. We'll get to, well, I want to know how you define not warm weather because I think you might be insulting to British people like me, but- It definitely is. Before we get that, Artie, what is it about summer that just gets you excited? Can I be a contrarian? Do you want to hot-tick? Do you hate summer? Oh, get out! Oh, the studio! I do, I am a summer traveler, but I try and do early summer or late summer. I'm not a peak summer girl. Well, I think it's also partly the fact that our family in India, which means my big trip is to Asia in December, so that's the big one for me, but I managed to fit a bunch of mini summer vacations into sort of like the early part of summer and then towards the tail end. So when you're thinking about bookending your summer, what are the trips that you are excited about right now? Where are you off to or where have you just been? So one thing I always do every summer is go to the UK because I've got a family there. I think- I'm also going to the UK, unsurprisingly. No surprises. No surprises. I'm also going to the UK. What? Look at us. What do you think of you going to see Oasis? In fact not. In fact not. Lucky girl. But I am seeing Oasis here in New York and maybe that's why I'm not traveling a peak summer. Okay. I'm not seeing Oasis anywhere. So. Right. Tell me about your British travels. Do you want to go first? Are you sure you're not following me around? I mean, basically. I will. I wonder how similar our tineries are. Okay. Let's talk about it. So I'm leaving tonight actually for Scotland. Stop. Okay. And then- I trained Megan how to say Adam Brook. I was going to say I was saying it wrong. I was wondering is that correct? I sensed the little hesitation. It would be so much key to me just looked at me. Panic. Well, I'm going to the place that I'm not going to dare repeat saying. But doing the beautiful Royal Scotsman train, which will go through, like, Cares Gordon's National Park, that whole little loose journey. Yes. Describe that train because I've done the night train from London to Inverness and Scotland before. And it was on just classic British rail, very affordable, accessible way to travel in the UK. And it's pretty bare bones, but it is still magical and you wake up in Scotland as the sun's coming up and the highlands are flying by and there's someone who knocks on your door and gives you a bacon sandwich. That's classic, basic British rail. Your train ride is a little bit different. Well, just to keep myself humble, I will be taking the cheapest train from London to Edinburgh to start. So I will hopefully have that bacon sandwich. And then it's one of these beautiful Belmont trains that I feel like we've covered so much here at WorkWords. I mean, no matter what train you're on, getting to sit and observe landscapes, flying pass is always a treat. But, you know, the cars on this train are very glamorous. It's kind of Titanic feeling. You know, you dress for dinner, so men have to either wear a dark suit or traditional clothing for dinner. So my husband will be wearing a kielts because he is sitting in a kielts. We're getting Henry and a kielts. This is incredible. Absolutely. A little nice. Perfect. A little nice socks. He's got to have a spore in. I do. Does he know what it's like? According to the place that we're going to rent it from, it all comes together. Okay. It's like a little sort of furry, furry purse. A little man purse. A little man purse. Yeah, right around the belt. Yeah, I was at a wedding once where the dog that was in the wedding jumped up and caught hold of the spore in of the green. Wrapped it off. Wrapped. Well, just sort of fun. It's a hard spore. Maybe, like, pouts, right? Yeah. I feel like Henry will be taking care of while I take care of it. I hope so. As long as we get it all, you know, wrapped up in time. The reservation on this fabulous outfit. And yeah, so the train kind of moves slowly. It does a loop from Edinburgh up. And it stops each night. And then during the day, you can get off and do hiking excursions or go to distilleries. So it stops. It stops. Oh, that's amazing. I know. And actually, at first, I didn't realize because when you see all this footage of this train, it's like, it's just the beautiful train. Yeah. Yeah. But so I'm really excited about that because I've never been to Scotland. And I think it'll help me deal with the fact that it might rain. There might be some gray skies, but it'll be so beautiful that I won't mind. And RTI have a hunch that you might be going somewhere similar. So be relieved. We're not doing exactly the same thing. I'm actually... You're not the other side of the train car. I'm not sort of... Yeah. Watching people and having me for a while. Yeah. On the other end. No. So I'm skipping Edinburgh. I'm actually going to England first to see family. And so I'll be in London. And then we go to Inverness for a mini break. Where my uncle live? Yes. I remember that. I remember you saying that. We head off into the Highlands. So we go into the wild forests of Kengoms. And... Wait, did I say that correctly? I'm always confused. I think Kengoms, right? Yes. Kengoms. Kengoms. I just said it probably the wrong way. I love how... Yeah. I love this. We're all wondering if we're saying things correctly. But we're heading into... I mean, it was an English person. I'm never going to get it right. So we're heading off into the thick forests of Kengoms to a farmhouse. It's a hotel where conservation is top of mind. There's been a lot of rewilding activity in the area. But we're just going to take... And this hotel's quite sort of boutiquey and small. And it's a couple that runs... It looks quite charming. It looks really charming. It's got the best of the Highlands and Danish huggers. So yeah, it's a lovely combination. It's corkily, handly. I've wanted to go there for many, many years. And I can't wait. And while the weather might still be a little unpredictable when you're in Scotland, and not the warmest, especially if you're in the Highlands, one of the perks is how long the days are. Because you are far north. I didn't even think of that. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you will have... It doesn't get dark. The further north you go in Scotland till super late. Like, when I was at university in Scotland would go out, we'd like get to the club. It would still be kind of like outside. And then you would come out at 3 a.m. Which was already brewed. It was already brewed. It's always so disorienting to me at first. And then you're so excited because you can make the most of your day and night. So look forward to that as well. Yeah. I think that goes... Doesn't get enough attention for the north of the UK. I mean, that was a highlight of going to Russia in the summer years ago, was actually just having it be light out forever. Okay, so keeping this moving. This is a question I get every now and then, and actually someone asked me this the other day, which is, what's it like to travel when you're in quotes, good at travel? You know, we're like so-called experts. I mean, I do... You know, we know a thing or two about seeing the world. Have you found yourself start to travel differently and plan your personal trips? The more that you've worked at Traveller or have you learned to prioritize different things just out of experience because we all get to do so many different types of trips? I think for me, I can never take the planner out of me, so... And I think my friends and family are happier for it. So I still end up doing all the planning because we have a wealth of expertise at our fingertips, right? Not just us, but our extended teams around the world and how lucky are we? So I will always do the planning. The one thing that has... Sort of like, rather than starting the website as our listeners do, we get to turn our chairs around and just ask the person next to us. If I ask each other, I'll get on a Zoom and ask a colleague sitting in India and Munich. The one thing that I have come to learn is a bit of a relief, is my husband Phil forces me to take my travel editor hat off when we get there. And he's very much someone who prefers to not have an itinerary, chock-full at the get-go. And so he has encouraged me to leave a lot more room for stumbling upon something or leaving something to chance or leaving openings for recommendations from locals when we get there. And I've resisted it a lot, but I'm learning to love it. And I can hear you a plan. When I'm in a group with friends and we're all going somewhere, I think it happens to all of us. Everyone looks at you to be like, "So where should we stay? What should we do?" And I'm happy to do that when I actually know the place because I feel like I've been gathering all this information for something, right? I should use it. But when it's just me or when I'm like, "I really have no one else relying on me, I just want to show up somewhere and just go with it." I'm like, "Do whatever feels good." So is it, "Am I in the mood randomly to get a drink at 130?" And even though I should probably go to the museum, I'd rather just sit in that cool bar over there. Like, sure, I'm going to sit in a lot of pubs on this trip. Great. Fine. Who cares? As you go is what I strive for, but I think it is, I do have to kind of remember that I'm not going on a work trip because you start talking to people and they're saying something interesting and there's an inclination. And I'm like, "Oh, maybe I should take some notes in case this is something later." And it's like, "No." It's just... I do ask annoying questions. Oh. If I'm on a group tour, like, you should leave. I'm in the front with the pool guide being definitely, but I'm also like, "Well, that's probably why we do this job because we're very curious people." I really relate to that because I think while I have mastered planning, I'm also not inherently a good planner. It doesn't come naturally to me. And I think when I am just traveling on my own time, I do want to leave a lot of stuff up to chance. Like, I want to know where I'm staying. That's basically it. Yeah. And then you can get there. You know, for a trip to Sicily that I have this summer, I have not booked a single restaurant. I have no idea where I'm going to eat. That's very nice. And that feels quite freeing. I'm like, "Well, probably I'm like, it's Italy, everything will be delicious. It's going to be..." That's true. It will be hard to go wrong. But I wanted to kind of free myself from the confines of being like, "I have to get this restaurant reservation." The trip will fall apart if I don't eat this place that's on this list. Which is also so free when you're like, "The trip is not about that and then if it doesn't work out, it doesn't matter." Like, the trip is about just getting there and enjoying yourself, whatever that looks like. And financially as well, no matter where you're going often, it's the getting there and the accommodations that are the most expensive part of a trip. Even if you've managed to kind of game it with miles and points and all that, for me sometimes it feels like there's never any way round really dropping the money on that. Then the other stuff, just being in the place to be walking around can be so fulfilling and exciting. But I'm interested to know, things are very expensive right now, are there certain elements of your trips that you seek to prioritise and maybe let go of other things? You know, there are those trips that I take where I, you know, obviously you set a budget, but you say, "I'm going to be a little bit more flexible with my budgets because I really want to do a certain thing or experience a certain thing." For instance, you're not going to be surprised when I mention Copenhagen, but when I go to Copenhagen I allow myself that one really spendy meal. More from Artie and Megan coming up. Right now I'm in the studio with my dear friend and colleague, Artie Menon, global digital director at Kondynast Traveller. Listeners might remember that last year I did two incredible trips to different parts of Africa. I went to Namibia and I went to Botswana with Conservation and Hospitality Company at Wilderness who are very good at getting you to some of the most remote parts of the world. Artie, you also just went on a trip with Wilderness. Where did you go? I always see the more special places are the furthest and require you to sort of make a real effort to get there and then the rewards are plentiful. I went to a property owned by Wilderness in Rwanda. This is called Bissati and I stayed at Bissati Reserve which is their sort of newer collection of luxury villas on the same property as the older collection of Bissati villas. This has been a bucket list trip every year. I've prayed to the travel gods to make happen for me and also my first time in East Africa which was exciting. Okay, so the question that I've been waiting to ask which is what was it like to see the gorillas? The trek to get to a gorilla family is full of surprises because you're in fact not told how long the walk will be so you're walking and you're making way through bamboo groves and bush and bramble and it had been raining so it was muddy and we were sinking to mud. And then suddenly the trucker says they're here. And before you know it, you've arrived, you've arrived at their doorstep and the gorilla family that we were so fortunate to witness was they all have names by the way. As for this family it's called Amahoro which means peace and here they were lying peacefully. The silver back was sort of lying on his back, sunning himself as it were kind of scratching his head and then the mummies who were so attentive to their babies and then the juveniles were having a bit of a game and you know all through the walk up to that point. I had been talking to myself saying don't cry, don't cry, don't cry because you know I had been waiting to see gorillas in the wild and well ever since I was a little girl as my mum reminded me the other day and then I'd been telling myself this and I said well when you come across them you are so awestruck that in a weird way you can't cry because you are just captivated. You actually can't cry so it was the most singular privilege and an experience that will absolutely stay with me all my life. What is it to kind of reset and I guess like process what you just saw back at the camp. So Bissati Reserve and Bissati the original collection are on a crater rim, a lot of care has been taken to build it with local materials and when you go inside the villas things are made by local women's cooperatives, there's constant callouts to watch us around it by the trees and the birds and some of my favourite times were of course when I went to see the gorillas but you come back and there's just treats awaiting you by way of an incredible corner copy of birds and you could just sit on your balcony and look at birds all day long. The fires are always roaring, the staff have this magical ability to know exactly when you're coming, have the fires set up and at the right I don't know level of roaring or warmth and all your favourite treats would be in little bottles on your tree and because it's at such a high altitude you can be prone to sort of feeling a little bit light in the head and they have this amazing concoction that they keep refilling in your room and you have a sip of it and you feel fine. So the staff just go above and beyond and the level of care it's like within our one you feel like they're family because you're almost associate that level of care with close friends and family and not a standard hotel. Adi, thank you so much for sharing some of your stories from Rwanda, a place that is now on my bucket list too and if you too want to experience these wild places and do it in the most thoughtfully curated way possible you can learn more at wildernessdestadations.com/womenwhotravel. You're back with Arty and Megan on their summer travel plans. Arty has gone to Copenhagen multiple times, a bit of a scandal. So it really depends on the trip but otherwise I'm actually one of those people that is happy to let go of the spending meal and the most exciting rooftop bar where you know a world famous mixologist will serve up a $40 cocktail whatever. What is the price these days? It can be so fun when you give yourself up to it but at the same time I'm like we've all lost our minds. This is where I'm teetering on the edge of its fall. I'm also like if you're having a $40 martini which certainly exists. Yes. I want to know that it's 40, I want to enjoy that and I want to be like this is just ridiculously decadent and that's what I get for. That's the thing. If you're doing it, go with a nation, savor it. Right. But not every holiday has to be that way. Right. And when it's like you didn't do any planning and you show up somewhere and you're kind of shocked by where you've landed that can be disappointing. So food is definitely one area where I will sort of set myself a budget. And when I think of some of the most memorable meals I've had in my travels whether it's in Japan or India where I was over Christmas and New Year, it's rarely the really expensive ones. One of the best things I ate in India, RT I was telling you this the other day was a veggie samosa that I ate on a train that a man with a tray came on at a stop on the way from Udaiporta Jaipur. The Samosa. Steaming hot. Steaming hot. Just deep fried delicious I think about that Samosa every day and it was the cheapest thing I ate. That's the thing. But yeah, food, I don't know about you, but shopping is that in the area that you can sort of set? I mean, who are we kidding? I shop a lot. I shop a lot. Especially, you know, you want a piece of something to take back home with you and you know, you wake up in the morning and you see that, I don't know, that cushion that's sitting on your couch and you think of, you know, an autism that's made it or whatever. But also to that point, like I've tried to allow myself to shop, I've been like, okay, I need new cloth napkins. I'm going to hold out till my trip to Wahaka at the end of the month and I'm going to buy them there because then I get the fun of shopping there and, you know, depending on the local textile tradition or a craft. Yeah. And there's something nice about when you're kind of buying like a craft or something that's from like a beautiful, just like local, small independently-owned shop, is that you also know that you're putting your money back into the place that you've visited, which has already kind of given you so much as a tourist and it's a way of paying back a little bit. And knowing where your money is going. Exactly. And then it's a little less like, I'm just buying something because I'm here. I'm like, I've thought about this. This is something I need at home. I feel great about it. And knowing where your money is gone and it stays local. Megan, what are some of the ways that you're pinching your pennies? That doesn't sound very glamorous, but also I know it's you're spending money on a 40-dollar martini. Not always. Maybe with me. Maybe with me. I'm just saying. We are definitely victim to the overpriced martini, but I think, God, I can see this. For me, I love a beautiful hotel, but I also think they can just gobble up such a big part of your budget. So, you know, if you're going on a special trip or there's somewhere you really want to stay, obviously that's a very meaningful way to enjoy your time somewhere. But when you're trying to save money, if you make a downgrade on the place you're staying or just look for something a little smaller, a little further out from the center, you can save a lot of money in one go, which I find has less of an impact on the trip as opposed to every time I eat out being like, should I get the glass of wine, should I get the starter? Like I try to just in life in general make those bigger budget cuts or just go somewhere closer where I already don't have the cost of the flight hanging over my head so that I can then on a day-to-day basis just feel like money everywhere, do whatever I want, say yes to everything. More is more. You serve that to me on a platter because I want to bring things slightly closer for a little bit and talk about traveling in the US, which isn't without its cost, but you aren't doing an international flight at the very least, Megan earlier in the late spring, early summer we talked about national parks, which we could dedicate another episode to, but there are plenty of outdoor experiences that take place all over the US that are outside of the national parks, there's state parks, there's islands, there's other green spaces, there's the beach, I'd say, our Friday office every summer, what have you got your sights set on right now? Where in the US are you kind of craving for that summer hit or even looking ahead to autumn because so many places in the US are gorgeous come fall? Definitely. I mean, not right in the US, but I am planning a trip just driving across the border into Canada, which I'm excited about because I've never done that in New York. It means I'll get to drive through upstate New York and kind of, just the fact that I can be in Montreal in like eight hours, I think is really empowering because I could spend that time on a long haul flight, but I'm going to see so much along the way. I always wanted to do that drive. It looks beautiful and I think just realizing there's so much in driving distance, but you mentioned state parks and that's another thing for me, like wherever I'm going. If I'm going to go home to see my mom in LA or if I'm going to be visiting a friend in Austin, maybe at some point this summer, I love to look at state parks around because they're usually places that are close to urban centers where you can get to, not always, but there's always something attainable and you don't have the national park crowds, but there's state parks for a reason. There's something beautiful there, so. And they often teaming with wildlife as well. It all depends on a scale, it's a lot of budding, but I'm a big fan of the state pot network in the US. And the state beaches, the wildlife reserves are like a ton of different things that fall under the national park services umbrella that aren't the national parks, which is such a grand term and sometimes overshadows, so we've got to look for the underdogs in there. Love the underdog. I'm surprised, I'm going to Canada as well. It's you two just, I'm so happy that we didn't plan this most, which is across the office between the two of you. I mean, it is funny because usually I feel like we're heading in opposite directions. We're heading in very different directions. I'm off to India, she's off to Peru, I'm off to, I don't know, the UK. She's off to France, whatever it is, but I'm going to Canada as well. Very different from Montreal. Very different and not within, decidedly not within driving distance. So I'm going back to a little island off the northwest coast of Newfoundland, Canada. Not driving distance, it in fact takes two flights, two car rides in a ferry to get there. Practically a whole day. The island is called Fogo Island. Oh, duh. Megan's like, I knew you'd call that. Which is famous for a hotel on the island. The Fogo Island. Absolutely. A bucketless property. It was a singular privilege to stay in this hotel last year. Oh, but I wouldn't name Zeta Cobb. Zeta Cobb, who we had on our power list, very deservedly so. And so I went last year and I was so fortunate to stay there on, you know, on work. And I fell in love with the island and it's 11 communities, no more than 2200 people living on that tiny island. They joke they call it a rock off a rock because it's off the coast of Newfoundland, which is off the coast of Canada. And I just fell in love with the people who have a very, very distinct history. Settler history dates back to 300 years, mostly from UK and Ireland. Some of them still have these little thing Irish accents, it's wonderfully charming. So I'm going back there. Have you read The Shipping News by Annie Prue? I have not. Because I have almost finished it and it's set in Newfoundland. Newfoundland. Newfoundland. Newfoundland. It took me a while to start pronouncing that correctly. Newfoundland. Newfoundland. Newfoundland. And it is just what you described. It is set in a small community on one of the islands there and it's just filled with characters and sort of lore and stories and ships and you just get immersed in this world and it's made me desperate to visit. Oh, you must go back. So I'm going back this year with a girlfriend and we're taking loads of books with us where I've signed up for some hand-built pottery lessons and we're going to go on long hikes. I say I love the characters that I've met at Fogo, but I'm also looking forward to meeting another character again, which is the Gus of Wind that sweeps through this island. It's definitely got me in character energy and maybe there'll still be a few icebergs floating around. It's the start of whale watching season. So there's going to be... I picture myself sitting at a window looking out sort of for hours on end. I bet none of the books get read. There will be minds. There will be minds. There will be minds recommendation. Well, you're watching the icebergs and we'll carry a few bottles on and yeah, it'll be lovely. This is right up your alley of the cold weather destinations. See? I know. I'm going to call weather destination when it's summer. Yeah, and I'm like, I want to swim. Where to go for some memorable fall experiences after the break. You're back with women who travel. We've been talking a lot about Canada, but I also want to turn our attention to the other border, the other end of the U.S., which is Mexico, a beautiful country that I have gone to many times now and I feel very lucky to buy virtue of living in the U.S. that it was not a place that I got to explore and learn about until I moved here. And I think that's a really special thing about living here. Megan, you know Mexico very well. Yeah. I mean, the day of the dead is a beautiful time to be in Mexico. You know, Mexico City is, it's so famous for having the Bond movie set during the day of the dead there. You know, I was there the first time when they were having the premiere for that. Oh, really? And I ended up seeing Sam Smith in "Contra Mar the Restaurant" and he did the soundtrack. Well, that is a fabulous entry point. But it did. The dead was actually not a big celebration in Mexico City before the movie. I think there's kind of a bit of that. That is what I had also learned on that trip. I was like, none of it's happening here. It's Old and Mojaca. Yeah. It's in Mojaca. It's in some other more rural communities. But I mean, there are celebrations throughout the country. So there's, I mean, there's something I've always wanted to go to in Michoacán where there's this beautiful lake. And at the first night of it, they have these kind of boat sail across that have candles on them for all the people who have passed away. Looks beautiful. But I think, you know, if you're interested in the day of the dead, you can go well beyond Mexico. So you can also go to Guatemala. Huge celebrations there, moving further south, I think, Bolivia has a really unique, much more Andean traditions, obviously, that just seem like a complete contrast. So I think day of the dead is a great time to basically start looking south and know that it exists so differently in every country and even every city that even if you've been to the Mojaca's day of the dead, which has huge street festivals, you know, are parades throughout the street and beautiful events and cemeteries in Guatemala. I think in Acastiningo, there's like a huge kite festival. And so it really varies depending on where you are. And sort of nice ways to start planning, because sometimes I think the, the sheer wealth of where you can go when you start to say to yourself, I am going to take an international trip. And then it's kind of like, well, that could be anywhere. So finding festivals or events that get excited about, it's kind of a nice way to like, anchor yourself to a place that will agree on a trip, so agree. One last thing for you is because you travel to Peru a lot. I'm getting to go to Peru in a couple of days time and we'll be in the Andes. You like the Andes in the spring. And you also mentioned to me earlier that there's a food festival in Lima that you're excited about. Yeah, I think, I mean, I see you were talking a bit about shoulder season. And I feel like we all here agreed that even though I love the deliciousness of like summer and being at the beach surrounded by everyone, and you know, I love that energy being in the shoulder season is a great time to get the good weather, have fewer of the crowds, maybe get a discount. And so in the Andes, especially if you're looking at places like Machu Picchu, you know, the season really peaks June, July, August, but going in September or October, if you can go before the rainy season fully starts, you can do a lot of great trekking outdoors adventures. But it's, you're kind of hitting that sweet spot. And then in Lima, so, you know, I'll be in Lima in September for a family event. But I am hoping to time it right around the Meistura Food Festival, which is, Meistura has like, it's on the beach in Lima. They bring all these chefs and restaurants from all over the country and you're just like eat and eat and eat and in a place like Peru where the food is fantastic as it is to have it all in one place. It's pretty exciting. What are some of the dishes in Peru that you love to get? Because I, from my travels, I have discovered that it's one of my favorite food countries, destinations. Lima, extraordinary. Fantastic. So the food is so different throughout the country, which is why the festival is cool because in Lima, of course, you know, you have ceviche, you have tiraditos, like, almost like a sashimi with a sauce on it. It reflects the impact of Japanese immigrants in Peru. So you have the Lime Nio food, but then you also are going to have at the festival dishes from Atikipo, which they do at Tupi Kamarone, which is like this creamy, crawfish soup. It's, yeah, with like a spicy red pepper, amazing. You can have Amazonian food, which is also so flavorful, so spicy, they do this salad called Jonta, which is like a frayed palm frond inner that is like, limey and delicate. And so where else do you find that, you know? So the food festival, if you are getting excited by all these words, like, I am some place, yeah. I'm very excited for my trip. Yeah. Arti, earlier we were talking about the kind of joy of long midnight sun and summer days, which I think is so associated with Scandinavia, a place that you love. But for the fall for autumn, is it worth visiting then? How should you tackle it? Because we did a wonderful episode years ago about cold swimming in Denmark and there seems to be a whole other side to that part of the world. Cold swimming combined with hot saunas, one of the quintessential experiences and best enjoyed in winter and post which you can sit by a fire and enjoy a glass of snaps and we know you love cold weather travel. And I do love cold weather travel, even in the summer it would appear. So yes, so I've actually been to Copenhagen and one of the few people that has been in spring, summer, fall and winter, even though I was warned off of winter travel to Scandinavia. The reason why I love off-season travel is there are a few reasons. One is, I really think no matter where you go in the off-season, whatever the off-season is, the air is crisper, it's sort of cleaner, the days are longer. And you know, if you provide it, you allow yourself to lean into whatever the natural rhythms of life in that destination are. So a lot of the Danes, for instance, will go a lot more inward, so they spend more time indoors. There's a lot of coziness and like I said, sitting by the fire, drinking a glass of snaps, but equally sort of like finding time for well-being, so cold water swimming and saunas, etc. I think the trick is always to just sort of lean into that sort of new rhythm, the seasonal rhythms of destinations. So Copenhagen's obviously beautiful in the summer. The thing that I've been looking at for this year, for fall, is that they have a new architecture, Biennale, oh, biennale. And it's the debut this year and it's in September, so you know, that's one reason for me to skip peak summer, Copenhagen and go then. And also a place which I know we were saying maybe cut down on the shopping, but I think you have to shop in Copenhagen. Absolutely, all rules go out the window when I go to Copenhagen. So yes, I really do feel I've been to Finland in the late summer. I think the Finnish acupelagos are obviously the most beautiful, at the most beautiful in the summer, but I think there's a certain quality to the mistyness and the cold and darkness drapes around you so differently in the winter. And you know, I think for a lot of people, we associate vacations with summer clothing with our favourite swimsuits. What is wrong with putting on a beautiful coat and trapezing through a destination in the winter? I kind of enjoy it. So I do think Scandinavia, it comes alive in the summer, but is a beautiful way for you to emotionally reset for the next year if you just allow yourself to slow down. Getting down feels like something that we could all use more of, although I suspect that all of us will keep moving very fast and planning lots of trips. Rapping things up, my brain is ping-ponging with so many types of travels that I hadn't thought about then now I want to do and try and do before years. And where are you turning your attentions to now if we had a map in this room, what would you do? You'd be thrown the dart into? For the rest of the year. Yeah. I've thrown one dart on, I've thrown a dart on Japan and Korea for October, and that really does feel like a trip that I have talked about for years and want to do and I'm finally like, I'm going, so I've only thrown the dart so far as to buy the flight and do nothing else. That's a big dot. That's a big dot. The fear of expensive flights is one thing that motivates me, but so that's kind of what I'm looking at. It's a very different part of the world than I spend most of my time in, so I also think of that newness, you know, before the end of the year is going to be exciting. Am I the only one left who hasn't been to Japan, doesn't have a plan to go to Japan? This is making me see. I mean, I was like, I almost feel like I'm going to Paris or somewhere because every time I mention it, every person I've ever met is like, I just got back from Japan. I'm like, okay, so maybe it is definitely terms of tourism is at a peak right now, partly because at least for US travelers, the exchange rate is so favorable. So, happy shopping, Megan. That is where I'm going to be buying Martinez, no matter what they cause. I'm going to be eating everything. RT, what about you? You know, talking about the off season, I know you're going to Sicily, and I'm not sure exactly when you're going, but I really want to go back to Italy in sort of late fall. I remember enjoying being in Florence in the winter so much from when I was a child. I distinctly remember those perfect sunsets from Pontivicule, the bridge in Florence. Sunsets like I've never seen, well, that's the other thing about winter travel. The sun rises and the sunsets are always the best, and also you don't have to get off as early for the sunsets. You don't have to stay out later to see the sunsets. And so I really want to plan a trip to Italy. I've never been to Sicily, there are many suns, amazing. I will be coming with all of my tips and recommendations. Maybe that's what I wait for, I wait for you to come back, and then I've been using a Sicily feature that we ran in Traveler in 2022, written by our very own Aaron Floreo as my kind of handbook to Sicily, and I've realized I have basically planned my route exactly as she did it in her story, and it's stunned me very well. I'll report back, report back, but I genuinely think all the Italian classics are equally mesmerising in early winter. If listeners want to follow along with your travels, where can they find both of you? I'm @sparely on Instagram, I'm @rdmennon on Instagram as well, and maybe you'll spot a couple of similarities between your whole piece of girl with the same, they're basically going to look the same. But different. There'll be two versions of Scotland. Two versions, exactly. Yeah, so if you're liking our content, make sure you get the others, you get the full rounded perspective. If you do request, Henry and his kill, I really got an email, I got a guy with a kill. Thank you for listening to Women Who Travel. I'm Lale Aracoglu, and you can find me on Instagram @lalehanna. Our engineer is Pran Bandi, and special thanks to Jake Lumas for engineering support. Our show is mixed by Amar Lal at Macrosound. Dude Kavanaugh is our producer, Stephanie Karyuki our executive producer, and Chris Bannon is head of Conden Asglobal Audio. Discover Earth's ultimate, untamed places with wilderness. 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