2924: The Best Machine for Every Body Part (Including Some You've Never Seen)

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Why not show up by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at MindPumpStore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to MindPumpStore.com. That's it. Enjoy the rest of the show. Machines have some value when it comes to building muscle, helping you burn body fat. They're especially good for isolating body parts. Today we're going to talk about the best machines for each body part. Some of these are hard to find. Let's go. All right. Machines. Let's talk about some of these. Justin, do you know any machines? Yeah, none. Name one. You guys got a. Name one. Yeah. Hmm. Do you do. Leg press? Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Because I know we talk, him and I talk about when we travel or not feeling it, you know, maybe overreach the last workout. Do you defer to machines or do you just go to mobility work? Well, yeah. I mean, if I'm limited to just that and like the hotel, like there'll be like a pec deck or, you know, like one of those, if I have like something to do, pull up. It's like if I'm absolutely held hostage. Yeah, if I'm held hostage and this is like my only option. You make sure nobody's in the room. I'll do it. See me? I don't know. I don't mind machines. It's fun. It just feels like too easy. Yeah. For me. You're so strong. All right. So here's what we did. That's not it. So here's what happened. I made this list and I wrote, I put down some machines that are very hard to find, but these are machines that if I go into a gym and my goal is to do a normal workout for me, which typically involves a lot of free weights. If I see this machine, I'm almost always going to use it. That's what I did is I listed the ones like, man, if I see that. I'm going to get on that one. Okay, yes. Okay. So the first one, we'll go with legs. This is a machine that is now like in mythology. There's like a lore behind it now because they only made 400 of them. I looked it up. Really? Only made 400 of them. They're huge. And the reason why gyms don't have them is because they take up so much space and because people are afraid to use them. Is this that crazy one where it's like. Yeah, climb it? Yeah. Well, you have to like press like over your head. No. No, you're talking about. Lay down on your back and you press out, but you have to climb up it to get on. This is called the H-Squat by Hammer Strength, otherwise known as Legasaurus. Is that its nickname? Legasaurus is the nickname. So it's this huge machine that you literally have to go upstairs to get on the top of, and it's a lever-based squat machine. Only three people have died. It's actually the best feeling. I've never felt a leg machine as good as this one. It's just to get into it, to do it, you're almost on display. So if you're not really comfortable, I'm sure you wouldn't want to go up there. It takes up a ton of space. But till this day, bodybuilders talk about it fondly, and they're like, man, I wish I had access. It has to be one of the most ridiculous machines. It is, but it's got such a crazy feel to it. It really does feel really good. This is a terrible example, but this is like Tommy Lee, you know, like when he's in his cage, when he's playing drums and he flips upside down, and you're like, why? It's for show. Yeah. It's for show. No, this one actually feels really good. The range of motion, the thing with leg machines I don't like often is the range of motion is kind of short. Yeah. Oftentimes with leg machines. Yeah. But this one is like a real deep kind of squat type of range of motion. Yeah. Just by the way it's set up and designed. So I just love the feel. I figure you would have put like a belt squat on there. I love that. Now that's much more common. You'll find belt squats. Well, yeah. They're not crazy common, but they're more common than like, I mean, the chances that anybody listening to this podcast is going to ever see the machine that you just brought up. If you see an H-squat, take a picture of it and post it. Yeah, because that's how rare that is. Belt squat is. You're right. That is such a functional. I feel like that's a good honorable mention there. Totally. Yeah. Totally. I would say for sure that's one of my favorites. Yeah. 100%. All right. Next we get to back. Adam and I have talked about this machine many times. I got a fond. Best machine ever. connection to it. If I see it, I don't care what my back workout is scheduled to do, I'm going to hit this machine. It's an old school Nautilus pullover, and they're just hard to find. I love that. I brought this up the other day on the podcast because I said Joe DeFranco shared it, and we had. We had this conversation and. What did he say about it? He had just. So he had walked in some. I want to say it was like some old physical therapy office place or whatever, and he was showing his audience. He was videoing. He's like, check this out. These are. And he's talking about how great all these old machines are. And then he goes over to the chain Nautilus pullover, and I'm like DMing him as he's doing it. I'm like, this is. And we go back and forth for like 10 minutes just about how that's the greatest machine that was ever created. So what does this look like? You laying down? No, no, no. It's a pullover. The overhead? No, you sit. You sit in it. You sit up. It's not a cable or a strap. It's a chain, which is probably why I don't do it anymore because you catch a finger in that. You're losing a finger. Yeah, yeah. Sure, you're losing a finger. But you put your elbows on pads, and then there's a handle. You got a foot stomp here, so it brings it to where you can get locked in. Yep. And then you let go of the foot stomp, and then it'll pull you back. So you get like a stretch and a crazy squeeze at the same time. But you're sitting straight up. Yeah, you're sitting. Just like you are in your chair right now, and you have a foot stomp that will bring it back over. Remember, you've done that tricep one before, haven't you? Yeah, I did a tricep one. So it's like that. I've never done a upright seated one. Pullover. Oh, it's so good. If you have trouble getting a pump in your lats, you will 100% get a pump in your lats. It's such a good. It's awesome. You can load it good. It feels good. It's a shame that there's not. I know they got rid of the chain because of safety and stuff like that, but you would think they would have made it even a cable or a belt version of that. They are. There are cable and belt versions. I know Hammer Strength made a plate-loaded one that I would sometimes see. It's just, it's one of those things, like again, machines moved away from bodybuilders and athletes and towards the common consumer. And a pullover machine is one of those machines that the average gym goer looks at, has no idea how to use. So it's just difficult. Yeah, it makes sense. I feel like Hammer Strength was pretty good in terms of the feel and it being still performance driven. Hammer Strength did a great job because what they did is they. Nautilus did this. The original Nautilus was good at this too, but Hammer Strength tried to create. Like resistance curves with their equipment so that it was harder at one point, easier at another point, and gave it kind of a different feel. That's the way it became so popular with bodybuilders. Honorable mention for back, obviously a cable row. I think a cable row is a staple. I guess you could call it a machine, right? Yeah, but that's so standard. It is. Yeah, that can't be an honorable mention. Honorable mention has to be like somewhat unique. Okay. There's nothing unique about. No. Yeah. I would say like, you know what I like for a back that's unique? Is it like a steel row machine? You know what I like? And I think it's. I think you would agree, is the standing T-bar row. Oh, yeah. The one that has the platform. Oh, no chest support. Oh, yeah. I'm old school. I love that. You don't see those that often. You can make that at home. You just put the barbell in the corner. You can, but there's something about the platform, because the platform elevates you and you have a thing to kind of lock it and set it out. So it's just, it's comfortable for that. And when you do it between your legs with a bar, it's not as comfortable and wedge it in a corner. So when I see one where it's, I always, I always. I will always go over and use that for back. That was a. I love that. That was a staple exercise for me as a kid. So as a kid, I used to take the barbell, wedge it in the corner. And the first time I did it, I was like, this is. And it was literally one of the exercises I always did. Yeah. And maybe that's why too, when I was, when I first started lifting, that was a staple movement. And then later on, I saw, oh, wow, someone's made like a machine out of it. And I'm like, oh, that's. It's like the only use for landmines for a while there. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah. You just do like a T-bar. You know what's crazy? As we're talking about this, there's such a difference between the difference between how people. This is just a little side convo. How people do a T-bar row, non-chest supported, like you're saying, how they do it now versus how they did it in the 70s. You ever watch them do it in the 70s? Oh, yeah. Full range. They're going. They're like doing a back extension with. That's why I like it. Because. So the chest supported one, you only have a certain. So far, range of motion. It's just the row part. Yeah. And the standing one, I could take it all the way and completely like round my back and then come back. I just. Yeah, no, it's. It's one of the best machines out there. Yeah. Love it. All right. Shoulders. I put this one here because it's not an uncommon machine. You should be fired for this. But. the way this feels we're going to contest this is a higher skill shoulder exercise but it places me in a position that i can't get uh doing almost anything else and it's a smith machine upright row just because it's on a track it's bringing it to where i want and i can really feel the lateral head that's so weird you would pick that well what's yours dude i mean you got a better one anything else i mean yes no i'm serious like i've done that before and been like no like i'd rather have a barbell do you have a favorite shoulder machine i mean how about the viking press oh god oh yeah is that considered machine yeah of course it is well yeah i mean you're you got to use a landmine again and have leverage with that yeah and they make they make like they make like machines that are like viking press machines that are cool too i you know what that's not that's not bad the first time we used one it was uh was here and we saw who was it that was using it was was it ben um what's his name power lifter pokulski no oh pollock pollock was using one yeah then we ordered one we used it here and um the feel on it it's the extension yep it's that full extension squeeze at the top i love that you know the other machine i really like i know it's lateral stuff but it's still cool the standing lateral where you grab the handles that are like kind of free dang that's the one that's another great one bro i could go all day on this this is like that's like the worst one you picked that's a great one another great one is the uh the golds in um monterey has where you lay flat on your stomach and you can do rear like that oh bro i love that is that where you put your face in the hole yes yes it's like a massage table and you can get i mean there's there's your buddy while he does that yeah that one you never see yeah and there's not a lot of it nobody has used it and there's not a lot of great rear delt movements right there's only so i mean there's only so much you can do rear delt wise uh and so to have a machine that you can really target basically locks you oh yeah i so that was one of my favorites um yeah i could think of a lot of good shoulder standing uh and then you can do a lot of good shoulder standing uh and then you can do a lot of good shoulder standing uh and then you can do a lot of good shoulder standing uh and then you can do a lateral ways one was a good one that's if i see that i'm using oh yeah that's great 100 it just feels so comfortable yeah you know because it's all the the handles do you even know what that is it justin what no i don't i don't have like fond memories with you guys just like give me a barbell dumbbells which i love yeah this is the guy with the massive arms over here all right uh chest i this you see sometimes in the early 2000s you don't see it too often now do you guys know what the free motion multi uh multi-plane like chest machine is so it's like you're sitting in a chair that's got a back to it and there's cables here yeah yeah so you can do presses or flies yeah i like that oh man yeah it's the best yeah it gives you a really good range of motion it's the best for like that again not a ton of versatility probably why they got rid of it uh at gyms um but if i see so much with yeah just the free motion by itself yeah you know you can you're right yeah you can put a bench so versatile yeah it's like what's the but i like it because you could adjust you could go upper chest lower chest you could get a deep stretch squeeze yeah i can get down with that yeah i like that i'm trying to think right now there's not a lot of uh chest machines i'm a huge fan of me neither i was never a fan of i know everybody loved the hammer strength like chest press i never liked it i never felt it that much it does okay it's not it was always like a finisher like yeah yeah i've always thought you know what it is too it's like you can stack a bunch of weight on it so it's like so not impressive the decline one cables are always best though if i was gonna do any kind of flies cables yeah for range of motion absolutely all right next for biceps biceps are pretty easy to hit so um you know machines whatever but there's a seated curl machine that you'll sometimes find where your elbows are locked here and there's and there's uh cams that help you curl up and i've always liked that so i like that but if there's one that i like more that i get excited when i see because you can uh that's a little bit easier to emulate or simulate uh the one where your elbows are positioned up high you can't you're that's great that was the other one i was thinking of yeah because you can't really do that three weights you can't and it's just not you can't really make that challenging yeah exactly and you can't we're so it locks your elbow and shoulder in and you can really concentrate and it's just a position that you normally wouldn't put your i mean you can do that you can try and do that with cables it's not it doesn't feel the same um without the support uh and so you can actually kind of load it in that position so if i see that that bicep machine i'm doing that bicep machine yeah you can't really do that with cables it's not it doesn't feel the same um without the support uh and so you can actually kind of load it in that position so if i see that that bicep machine i'm doing that bicep machine i know i agree um for triceps so this is a machine that when i was a kid i didn't like and the main reason i didn't like it is i just would put too much weight on it and it just didn't feel good and it wasn't until i got older where i stopped caring so much about how much you know the weight stack was and i would just go light and try to make it work and this it feels great and it's a seated skull crusher machine nautilus made one with pads this is where your elbows are on and you lock yourself in the pads two handles and you're not going super heavy but going through a full range of motion uh if you go light on that um it's going to give you a real good feel the only reason i never liked that one that much is you you if you you have to go really light because if you go heavy it rocks your that's right rocks your shoulder and elbow back i like the one that i was referring to justin uh overhead yes oh man when you put your foot down and then it gets yeah it'll pull all the way back down and you could load you could load that really well um if there's again monterey has that uh or not monterey but uh bernal yeah i think yeah you're on to something with getting the elbow position up high for the machines i think that would be the move because like dips like how you're gonna beat dips yeah yeah otherwise there's there's a dip machine now there are dip machines you see i mean that when you push down that's pretty weak there's one that i that i rarely ever see that is plate loaded it's got long arms like this and they're just big tubes that come up and you add plates in the back it actually feels really good one of our gyms had that over here i like that one yeah it feels better but i'm with justin the overhead one is i think if you see that for triceps that's i'm going over there for sure and then for glutes you see these all over the place now hip thrust machines are actually pretty good they are they're actually really really i mean i actually would make the case for hip thrust machines over barbell so would i because barbell is really tough to get comfortable to get set up get in yes yep and the range of motion is really just the plates it digs into the bone yeah and it's and it's an isolation type of exercise anyways yeah so it's not like you're you know like you're getting tons of benefit for it being a free weight and so that's actually a machine that i would probably opt to do over free weights more often than not and speaking of which i know uh hip thrusts are really popular with especially with women who want to build their glutes but i'll tell you what if you're a guy and you want to improve well let's say athletic performance you want to get faster at sprinting uh the data on the uh on a hip thrust uh shows it's got a great carryover to sprinting and then if you're just looking to be strong this is my own personal anecdote and i'm going to show you how to do it hip thrust was is one of the few exercises that have a direct carryover to my deadlift like there's a few exercises that'll have carryover a lot of them don't have too much carryover like if my squat gets better i typically would get a better deadlift but when my when i do a hip thrust i feel it right out the gates like right away i'm stronger guy that has like no shame you know that's who's saying jay justin i'll just hump the air we'll let you have that award yeah go for it guys we'll let you be the guy it's not the worst exercise you could do you're cool you ever watch old uh old videos of bodybuilders doing donkey calf raises oh my god bro oh where they sit on each other yeah you're like riding your buddy those are close those are close yeah those are close anyway i uh i dude i read a story i'm gonna pull up the story that i read it's a true story i confirmed it one of the craziest things i've ever uh read in terms of like like this is a true story of a doctor that had to do something really crazy this happened this is a soviet um this was a soviet russian surgeon so i'll read this to you this is crazy in 1961 during the sixth soviet antarctic expedition there was a doctor there was the only doctor at this on this supply ship okay so he's a doctor for the supply ship and they're doing work the sea froze over and the team was isolated and stranded okay and they're like okay we got to wait for the winter to be over before anybody can come or we can get out of here but we got supplies we're just going to chill here in the sea until this this you know kind of like a lot on the boat on yeah because the sea froze over they couldn't go anywhere and nobody could rescue them okay is that i didn't know that like happens that can happen yeah that can happen uh so nowadays we have like ice it's rare but this was 1961 like you guys are stuck which is which is fine they're probably not going to die they're okay they got supplies but here's what gets crazy the 27 year old uh doctor started getting classic symptoms of a acute appendicitis so he was like oh no i'm the only doctor here and you got it this is definitely appendicitis do you do it on himself and if i don't like if if someone doesn't operate on me i'm dead yeah i'm gonna die so he did no way he like directed or he do it himself he had one of the one of the guys there no no one of the workers there this is not a surgeon sure this is just a on the boat who do you pick yeah real steady hands yeah the chef right yeah that's the best guy that's the best guy for the job right well dude he took one he took one of the guys and he all he did was he trained him on the equipment he's like i'm gonna tell you to bring me this give me that and then so he taught the guy what the equipment was no anesthesia oh and he gave himself a two-hour operation dude two hours two-hour operation removed his own appendix sewed himself back up and lived When you hear stuff like that, how weak do you feel? total wuss yeah dude could you operate on yourself i mean you think too that for him to know that he needed to do that like the average person probably wouldn't even know what's going on right you you just be in this pain and you wouldn't understand what's going on unless you were a doctor yeah well he so what happened if you read about this story uh pass out he first he realized oh yeah could you imagine doing being like doing the instructions and then pass out and the guy's like what next so what he said so here's what he said what next the red wire the blue wire i don't know so here's what happened here's what he said first off when he realized it was appendicitis he he went into despair because he's like i'm gonna die yeah there's pictures i'm not gonna survive this like like this is crazy then he had to have this mind shift he's like okay i'm a surgeon i have to do this i have to separate myself from this whatever yeah then he told somebody one of the guys there you need to give me these instruments you train them and then he told this other guy if i pass out your job is to wake me up because he knew that was a real possibility okay he did if i pass out smack me wake me up ahead of it so i can finish the surgery and he just yeah dude he's the gangster this is russians yeah yeah they're different they're different people did i ever tell you when i did a judo tournament against the russians that there was a russian team that came when i was a kid really ever tell you about this no no i was 13 i think and we did this big tournament and there was a russian team that had come in to also compete and they had all ages and so one of their one of their kids one of the kids was my age and he was in my group or whatever and i i don't remember what i at this point i think i was a i don't want to say i said say yellow bell and we were allowed and my age and my bell meant i can also choke so there's a certain point in judo where you can't choke unless you're this age and a four-year-old choke each other but anyway so i'm going against this kid and he i was a lot bigger and stronger than this kid okay russian kid and i'm on top of him and i'm choking him and i don't have great technique so i'm just strangling this kid basically and he's like not tapping out and his face is changing colors looks like he passed out at one point my mom's yelling at me from the stands to stop she's yelling stop you're gonna kill him in sicilian she's yelling at me and then she's literally telling me i'm in trouble like you better stop or you're in trouble oh no yelling at me from the stands oh no in sicilian you're gonna kill him you're hurting him stop it you're hurting him because i'm like on top of him trying to get this kid yeah yeah to tap out he wouldn't tap out oh my god yeah dude i won and i remember thinking like dude you're just gonna let me you can tap man that's so bad gangster no that's uh that's so great that's the russian sport hey you and your your boys getting ready to take off huh yeah yeah we're about to go on a little trip to atlanta and uh are they excited yeah they are yeah real excited okay it wasn't like you had like dad course him to go and stuff like that they were like what is this for uh so we had a caller remember the caller oh this is the the nfl the falcons yeah she's part of the the falcons and so they're in training camp right now and i was like oh this is a great opportunity because everett's like really into football but not like to the point where he's you know watching it on tv like really like knows the players like you know he just he likes playing and he's like you know he's like he's like he's like playing a lot okay you know and i'm trying to like you know stoke that a bit more so i think this will be great for him to meet the players and like are you gonna see the practice training camp yeah yeah so we're gonna do that and then there's also i guess there's like a porsche experience like right next to it so do you know the first day we're gonna do like a you know racing track and they're gonna drift with the kids with the cars and stuff so yeah it'll be cool i i just figured you know if you're gonna throw something out like that i'm gonna take advantage you know it's always cool about that i think everybody at some point i'm not a big everybody you guys tease me i'm not a big you know traditional sports guy but i do believe everybody should experience seeing a world-class athlete in person do something yeah athletic because it's wild well and also just wild thing it too like just being on the same level if you're like on the field that's what i mean yes yeah you just you see the the the size the power the speed and you're just like oh my god oh it's different in person oh it's one it's one thing to watch it on television and then you get it when you see a 300 pound uh man run faster than you've ever seen it's gonna give me ptsd probably i was like you know i got right to that point was like yeah i'm done well i remember the first time i saw a 90 plus mile an hour fastball and i was standing you know kind of next to where the batter would be and to see the ball come from the pitcher first of all i didn't know it made a sound it makes a sound yeah it like flies through the air and it like makes a sound yeah and to see the ball move and that fast oh it moves yeah it was weird place yeah it was weird it was like how did that even my buddy caught he was a catcher for you know mark uh for chico when chico uh this the years that they went and won the uh the series and he caught for a couple guys that end up being uh mlb pitchers and and even like at that level right really high level uh collegiate level that are going all the way the championship with guys that will end up going mlb there still is like a you know a difference between the the best pitcher of the league versus like good pictures and he's like oh it's like yeah he's like it's like an extra 10 miles an hour and that 10 miles an hour he goes my hands would be black and blue in the mitt yes in the mitt he goes it's just such a different feeling and then how it comes on he's like the way it gets on you like he goes you see it for a split second uh leaving his hand in your hand it's one of the only sports i can think of where you're doing it like you're killing it if you touch the ball three out of ten times to be predictive like literally you're guessing like right is it like before it even leaves his hand you already have to like know where you're going it's wild yeah i just watched a video of a three-time ncaa division one wrestler which is like incredible like you're a top wrestler in america at that level you're great yeah and he did was at an olympic trial and he was wrestling against a uh olympic gold medalist and just got looked like he just didn't know what he was doing he got crushed by somebody there's such a different the levels that you get to yep so to see that in person i think everybody should i love it it's very humbling and also like inspiring at the same time yeah yeah yeah because some things are not so easy to see like um intelligence entrepreneur uh you know entrepreneurs who are brilliant you kind of see the proof in the pudding by what they do but you don't with uh athleticism it's very clear it's very black and white yeah it's a great oh my god i can't believe someone runs that fast or how do they jump like that it's very obvious yes yeah you're it's a great that's a great analogy because it's something like with business and intelligence it's not you don't look you don't know what you don't know you have no idea you see outcome and you go like oh that oh he must be good right yeah that's like but you don't realize what level the productivity and yeah to be able to do something like that but like speed is speed power is power it's someone like you see it in with your eyes it's like it's very very obvious yeah speaking of athleticism and stuff i'm again i'm going to keep uh hammering this drum that i think the next big uh supplement for fat loss and athletic performance are probiotics oh yeah i wonder if it's already you know since we're talking about they're not advertising it as such so like they're not but i you you know what though like the data this actually would be a good question for you while you're out there okay i would not be surprised if like the nfl and like teams like that are already looking yeah already using it with athletes and things like that just for for you think because like a lot of times uh stuff like that that's outside you know lifestyle wise they're always like seeking coaches you know and like personal trainers and people like outside nutritionists but yeah it'd be interesting to find out if they have like a team protocol or not well so like so we work with seed right so if people don't know um i mean we did our homework and they're the best the best in the world when it comes to to the kind of strains that they use and how they deliver the strains to where they need to go and how they keep them alive and all that stuff they have yet to uh advertise as athletic performance supplements or fat loss supplements the data is there yeah you know it's you know what reminds me of it's like creatine creatine was gotten known for strength and muscle now we know it's this longevity supplement probiotics uh sold as gut health improves your gut health obviously but it does way more than that mood anxiety fat loss athletic performance strength endurance all the data is there it's like a very it's a good for you supplement that also helps with your fitness goals so it's obviously it's going to help with your overall like health and function and you know improve everything all your systems and digestion all that kind of stuff but what what have they attributed to like the actual performance increases like benefit wise so here's what we have with the studies we have studies that show the end result so athletes that take probiotics versus athletes that don't they have more strength gains they have more performance gains more stamina they recover faster okay explaining the mechanisms uh is difficult because you can't really parse that out well the microbiome is super complex yeah i mean we could attribute it to improved neurotransmitter reduction reduced information better maybe you can recruit at a higher capacity better nutrient assimilation i mean i don't know but true this is probably a little bit of all of it yeah or there's could be something that works better probably or could be there could be something direct i wonder how i wonder how it like uh um compete well not competes but how it measures up uh to like the comparison to like a multivitamin like how how like how how good does it do as far as income is it do you think it's better do you think it's gonna be superior well so you think the way multivitamin is so widely accepted everybody every doctor recommends it it's if you're nutrient deficient and you take it the heart attack in the heart thing with the multivitamin is if you need a multivitamin it's life-changing yeah so yeah but the case you can make a case that everybody does because in order for everybody to get all the nutrients that they need for like your rda we've talked about this before you'd have to have two servings of liver yeah 3 500 calories like who's eating 3 500 calories from whole foods and liver every week nobody is so if you're not then there's a case for everybody should i mean i hear what you're saying the point that i'm trying to make is if you have an actual deficiency because there's like there's deficiency there's adequate and then there's optimal yeah that's fair okay so adequate you're not going to have symptoms of a deficiency now optimal you'll just feel better it's not going to be super perceptible but over time there's like a difference okay we know this but between adequate and deficient it's life-changing if you're deficient in a key nutrient like vitamin d yeah it's fair uh your body is you have symptoms of illness you know depression anxiety pain hormones which is like comparing to somebody who if you have severe gut issues and you take a probiotic and all of a sudden that makes a huge difference i mean that's life-changing it could but i it's uh yes but i don't know if you're necessarily deficient uh because probiotics have been shown to benefit everybody so like anybody who takes a probiotic um tends to derive benefit from it so it's kind of good for everybody yeah but wouldn't that fall in line with the multivitamin i mean maybe i know seed has a multivitamin you guys know that yeah you know i watch a really cool multivitamin too someone was breaking down some of the some of the best like uh supplement companies and it was like an instagram reel rant totally random no one even affiliated with seed but seed popped up as one of the top five yep and they talked about what they did such a good job of becoming the best at a probiotic first before they did like obviously the market was there for they stayed in the lane yes just like get known for the best of this and then they did all that's their hero product right so then they went on and they talked about that's what the the real was about uh understanding like a hero product for brands and they are a classic example of some a company that did that so well yeah hit it out the park with that and then they've added stuff yeah that's great hey what did you guys it's been out now a few days uh we've talked about the software but we'll bring it up on the show what what was your experience with the the trainer client event that we held was here at my home yeah different yeah it was it was very it was very we did it we were trying to talk uh about um we were guesstimating how many of those events that we've done now so what we've done in the past is we've had live events where we've invited fans and then we do like a live q a and we get to meet people and we've done trainer live events and all so i was thinking of like all of it because it's kind of was a blend of a little bit of both and so you know we've done a lot a lot of those more than 12. oh i would guess yeah 15 to 20 yeah doug yeah doug and i were like more like 15 20 of those at least okay um and it was interesting to hear uh i always like to hear katrina's perspective uh because she has a lot to do with the planning and the organizing and making sure that all follows through and so uh and you know she's pretty blunt when it comes to stuff like that and a lot of times i'm in it and so i don't i don't see from her perspective of watching it and and so she always will tell me what the event's like afterwards and i couldn't get her i i felt it was my favorite right too i was like that was my favorite by far i like them all by the way i love them all yeah this is my favorite one i i felt that the same thing and i think what what we all felt it was very similar and what i thought was interesting was she was like oh it was really good but you know you know it was different and i'm like well what do you mean by that and i kept pulling to like get what she meant for that and she would she had a hard time describing it the with probably why I think I loved it and liked it so much was in the past those those events are very much so centered around us and uh exactly and this event um was didn't feel centered even though I know we do our our live thing and a lot of the people obviously the people that are all there are clients of ours fans of the show highlighted our highlighted our team and the client success stories and it was emotional it was about them and their trainers yeah and so uh which for me and you guys which uh you know the best example or analogy I could give was like being like a proud father because your kid growing up yeah and so which which made me connect why she you know she's my wife and she's like you know as she loves the team but it's like yeah it's yeah she's team Adam Sal and Justin and you know Doug she's like excited to see that because to her that's like it's like you know the trainers like it's less where for her us it's not like their kids like like for us and so I get why it wasn't maybe her favorite because of for those reasons but I'm like that's the exact reason why it was my favorite was I met so many people so these were clients of our coaches and trainers and we've only had a training department for about two years we had a hundred people show up from all over the place we had someone drive from where they drive from uh Minnesota Minnesota yeah we flew in yeah and um meeting these people and they're all they've all been listening to show for five plus years most of them but to hear them talk about their coaches yeah every single one I met would bring up their coach and talk about their coach yeah and it was just it was incredible they talked about the coaches they talked about the culture and getting the opportunity to be in the studio and meet from top to bottom the staff and just the the feel so that I mean all of that for me was like I mean one of the things that uh we've talked a little bit on air about this uh this business has always been here I mean probably from uh year two right maybe not year one did we have a big trainer business on our hands but by year two uh we could have been training clients right whether it started with us and then eventually trainers that business was always there and we were really reluctant uh to do it for a really long time and mainly because uh we were very protective of building the brand it was we were very protective of uh our name like hey we worked really hard to create this podcast this network these people um handing it over to trainers to then go represent us that's a that's a massive overtake and it's a huge responsibility yeah huge responsibility and to see uh to see it unfold and for it to impact the people I mean I couldn't ask for a a listen better response listen we were trainers for for for I was a trainer for almost 20 years before doing this and um I know the impact that a good trainer will have on a person first of all nothing nothing touches that there is nothing that will impact a person more intimately and effectively than a good coach the same is true for a bad coach yeah a bad coach will can take their time and get them to the point where they'll never try it yeah they'll turn off fit they'll be turned off forever yeah forever forever the hardest people to to to um to adopt a healthy and fit lifestyle in the right way right in the right way the heart one of the hardest people to to take and do that with is someone that has had a bad experience with a coach when someone's had a really bad experience with a coach they're closed they're shut off they don't even try let alone uh you know trying and it takes a while to rebuild that trust and so that's a huge responsibility and if you're going to work for us first off it ain't easy yeah trying to get a job here good luck uh but if you do pass through the trials and tribulations that will put you through it's because you're special and then you're held to a very high standard like god forbid you're a trainer and you represent us in the wrong way yeah um so it's like it took us a long time to get to the point where we felt like we could do it that's why yeah it was crazy it it definitely got me a bit um just seeing how our culture has really grown and it's like a total representation of us to the point where it actually inspired me to make a few calls on my way home like i called some old clients that i hadn't talked to in like 10 years oh wow oh really yeah i was like oh hey tom what's up i miss you it was it was what yeah i just really to bring them in like now that we have like something established like this i'm like yeah this this is something that i would like put my stamp on it's like you know this is a good representation of like you know what i tried way back in the day to create but now it's at such a you know a level that um it's it's just awesome to see and i want them to be a part of it i i so every time we do these events there's always emotional moments um and this one was there's a lot of them chock full of them yeah there was this one young woman who and i won't say too much because i don't want you know reveal who she is but she's working with one of our trainers and one of our trainers asked me if i could hop on a coaching call with her and this young woman had had um had a history of eating disorders and stuff leading up to you know working with one of our coaches and the reason why she decided to hire one of our coaches was at her young age and this is a young woman her doctor told her she had osteopenia almost osteoporosis this was a result of her you know starving herself uh you know on and off over years which is just a common uh symptom of that kind of eating disorder so i got on the call uh we were talking and um you know one of the things i told her was throw your scale away and i literally told her i want you i want to see it and i want you to go throw it away right now and really scary for her and you know she and it was you know kind of was a tipping point and she's working with one of our best coaches she was here so that was probably i don't know how long it was four months ago that i had gotten that call anyway she was here i kind of forgot about the call uh i mean she's you know shaking my hand and we're talking and it starts to dawn on me who it is her fiance was there and he's like dude he goes um she went to the doctor and she had a bone scan and the bone scan showed that her bone mass is moving in the positive direction i know who you're talking about i didn't even recognize her so i'm talking to her as she's with her fiance yeah and we're she's saying hi and kind of like introducing herself she's introducing herself as if i didn't know who she was and i probably responded like i didn't know who it was and we were talking for a minute and then i saw her uh name tag and went oh my god i know i know you it was totally did not pick up on it because i didn't recognize her she looked so good so it was crazy about this first of all her bone mass is going in the right direction so she's going to be out of uh you know the danger zone here soon but the the thing that she was telling me was how shocked her doctors were yeah and how when they told her uh that she when you're told you have osteopenia or osteoporosis it's almost like they're they're telling you about a terminal or a non-reversible you for like a negative we talked about this we talked about this the other day it's like hey you got this thing yeah they talk about arthritis and bursitis the same way i felt like when they tell patients that they tell patients as if it's like a life sentence yeah it's like you caught this disease you can't reverse it it's like what well what's crazy is that us you know and this is the conversation we had and they were very grateful and we're all getting choked up but i was like you know what's crazy is that uh except for rare uh situations uh bone weakening you could it's the most it's one of the most predictable things you could reverse yep it's as predictable as getting stronger yeah like if i can get you stronger build muscle you build bone yeah we could build your bone and then nobody communicates it that way and it's weird it's wild to me totally i mean i imagine it's because of how rare it is no i think what it is adam i think there's two reasons why one uh doctors have very little coaching on exercise and nutrition they almost have no coaching on those things yeah two the way the system works is look getting someone to change their diet and exercise is not a conversation it's not like i don't just talk to someone for 15 minutes they go do it yeah yeah you got to coach them through this isn't easy doctors don't have that opportunity and i think that their experience is when i tell my clients to change a lifestyle thing nobody does it so i'm just gonna give them medication well that's my that's my point by it's rare i mean historically speaking it's a little bit different now i mean uh we're now getting to a place where people that are in their 60s and 70s uh fitness was a little more popular in their 30s and 40s but when we were 20 and those people were in their 60s and 70s like fitness lifting weights was just not a no lifting weights eating high protein and so when doctors would get somebody typically an advanced age that had these they would just i used to have they're not gonna change how many clients did you have that would would hire you in their 60s and then they tell you their doctor told them not to do any strange yeah yeah don't lift anything heavy don't do this don't do any strength training yeah and i'd be like uh can i get on the back yeah can i talk to your doctor i had so many conversations with doctors uh because you had to get you know doctor's clearance and i'd get on the phone and i would like explain to them what we're doing and i'm just taking it through range of motion it's gonna be very easy the idea is to get her a little stronger or i'm just gonna get her a little stronger and i'm just gonna get her a little well nothing over 10 pounds well you know that's relative to the person's strength we'd have this conversation and i'd win them over uh eventually uh but it was just it was wild to me that they tell them don't don't lift weights not a good idea so that's why i think it is i think it is it's just it's rare to see that that case you know speaking of stuff like that where you get where you get kind of a sentence uh you know cholesterol and lipids i gotta say this you can effectively all now and there are cases where you're not going to be able to do a lot okay but in in many cases there are things you could take that are natural that will positively affect your cholesterol and lipid numbers they're all there are natural things you could take some are very strong some not as strong dose doses product has clinical data support showing that it helps that it works and i wonder how many people know that when they get their blood test and their numbers come back not so good yeah i wonder how many how many of them know they could take uh cholesterol and lipids and they're not going to be able to take uh something over the counter that's natural healthy that's not a a medicine uh that'll actually show some my buddy lord has remember i i brought him up maybe a couple months ago he oh he started taking it yeah yeah that's right away right away took it and he was a he also made some dietary changes too so i mean i can't just be like oh this just magically did it yes yes um you know he he backed off uh the amount of red meat that he was eating and just try to switch it up for a little bit leaner cuts between that and taking that i think it was what is this clinical data yeah read that to me doug is it 95 yeah this one right here um let's see so 95 percent of participants reported a positive impact on ldl levels so that's 95 percent yeah and so it's like 90 on triglyceride levels yeah and and so and all the ingredients read those ingredients it's like fruit and like so what are all the things that are in it so they have these are healthy um compounds none of these act like a statin and i'm gonna tell you why i said that in just a second but give me the give me the ingredients there doug yeah so it's uh i'm not sure how you pronounce this amla amla fruit extract inositol pomegranate fruit organic ginger root and uh organic turmeric uh coenzyme coenzyme q10 lycopene black pepper fruit extract yeah so those are all good for you yeah they're all good for you they're all anti-inflammatory they're all going to give you health benefits uh and now the reason why i said none of those are a statin is because there is a like blockbuster big guns over-the-counter natural compound you can take that will for sure lower your cholesterol it's because it's a natural statin it's actually what red yeast rice extract yeah that's actually where they got the the um that's where they figured out how to create statin now why why why wouldn't you use that in combination or why wouldn't you add that to this so statins have their own potential uh side effects so statins have their own potential uh side effects so statin literally even a natural one yeah it's still a statin it ain't going to be as powerful as the pharmaceutical stuff yeah but it's still it's still a statin and what statins do is they essentially tell your liver to make less now that process of making cholesterol though has other there's other benefits to it that you might need so one of the one of the the potential side effects of a statin is like muscle weakening brain fog you know um because you need to produce cholesterol so that's why i leave that one for like okay you need the bigger gun you need the you can before you go to pharmaceutical you can take red yeast rice extract and see what happens there but it reliably so that's probably why they wouldn't put that in there yes oh interesting there's two more ingredients i didn't mention it's niacin and folate yeah oh it's got niacin in it huh oh niacin was the old school way of lowering cholesterol you know that i didn't know that they would give you a crap ton of niacin till you'd flush like you'd look like a lobster up your skin i'll never for the first time and then throw you in a sauna both of those yeah i've done it before you've done that oh yeah i get that niacin flush and get in the sauna i tell you man it's a good time i feel like that screams my head pounding with the head yeah yeah i feel like they use uh niacinamide which i don't know if it causes a flush no you're not gonna flush from this yeah i remember the first time i took niacin i i read some bodybuilder talk yeah i think i did the same thing too for a pump put some stack with it bro i took it i was at work i took it and i was like i just sweating really red yeah i look like just wasn't it um wasn't it uh after like two minutes was it whatever happened to you red fuel red fuel oh is this the way you rub on your skin is it rip no not rip fuel the blue the blue and red bottle that was small red line red line oh red line red line red line used to have niacin in it oh my god yeah that's what it was yeah because that one what happened to them are they still around yeah you can still buy red line i haven't seen it ain't like the old school no do the red line ready to drink that's almost back when they had a fed so the original red line was gnarly dude it was a metal can yes that's what i'm talking about and you know what got them in it had two servings in there is that what it was yeah because people would take thinking it's one serving i believe they had niacin in there too i'm almost certain they did uh the original one yeah i don't know yohimbi caffeine beta beta alanine amino acids yeah nothing beats uh old school speed stack yeah yeah hey doug can you type in you i think you'd still get a 1990s speed stack i just want to look at it i know what it was i just want to get fun how many did i have i probably a day 25 milligrams of ephedra yep yeah 25 milligrams of ephedra plus and to think that i think multiple and then you know what it said two to three a day that's what the bottle said did it say that yes well i would have at least two i remember when i was trying to like you know really push it in in the gym dude i burnt myself i'm definitely guilty of getting some of our stuff uh look at pictures you're so close you know it's you know this is okay everybody this is this was there it is right there on the right yeah that's uh i think that's the original like that oh that's the you're right yeah it's like i mean i just want people to understand this everybody this was drugs you run through a wall our gym these were gyms that we ran and these were in the uh the refrigerator for members or whoever to use did they have a big lawsuit what happened why did they have to pull oh i remember people were dying no it was you know the it was people that so kids i remember kids uh baseball player i remember he died on the field yeah i remember a baseball player died from ephedra so hydroxy cut all those brands they they all had to start pulling ephedra because ephedra is illegal you can't even buy ephedra you can't you can't like not black market though no no no because you can you can you can you can't but by itself and you have to buy it you got to go to a pharmacy and you have to get it well it's for it's not over the counter it's a bronchodilator yeah you can't you can't get it over the counter anymore uh it's kind of over the counter so you know how you go buy pseudofed and you got to go give them the ticket yeah they have that and it's straight up uh you just have to say the right things no it's just it's a bronchodilator so it's for asthma yeah i have asthma yeah and you could buy it and then you could take your own you could combine it with your own caffeine and then throw so the old stack was 200 milligrams caffeine 25 milligrams of ephedra 100 uh 100 milligrams of aspirin disclaimer doug that you don't do yeah you don't do that don't do that here's the recipe i'm gonna tell you right now if you don't have a high tolerance and you're stupid enough to try that because i'm not recommending it if you don't have a high tolerance you will feel like you're having an anxiety for like two and a half hours you need to have no thanks in order to do that no no no but we used to so we used to dude i used to have my so we would run gyms we used to do a morning production meeting morning production meeting was 9 a.m so 9 a.m there was two production meetings it was one at nine another one at four before prime time so in this this is what the times i'd hand out the speed stacks so i'd have my sales people come in and throw them at everybody curious here we go have you ever heard of uh mini thins yeah that was ephedra okay yeah yeah because like there there was guys on the football team to take it i did it one time like before a game and were you like people's good mouths were like foaming like oh no way i'm not even joking it was like we're selling these right now guys we can't i know that's why i said disclaimer so eli's got to put the disclaimer on the video to make sure it's it was it was really bad we don't we don't i'm wondering what was in it i didn't even know it was in it many fans were sold uh for truck drivers at gas stations yeah so this this was how this is what checks out this was before truck drivers would go straight i don't remember those yeah many things yeah they're just little tablets i don't know somebody on the football team was passing those around yeah i mean like i said that's oh four i'm already taking speed stacks i didn't need that yeah that's that's the that's the that's for babies for mini guys if you're mini yeah you know bodybuilders are always on the cutting edge of what will kamikazes they are what i have a buddy waters i've talked about this before on the show i just gotta bring it up again the dynamite i have a buddy who so so a long time ago in a dynamite manufacturing this is how this got discovered there was a dynamite i don't remember where it was there was a dynamite man a dynamite manufacturing facility and workers uh who were handling this stuff were just sweating and losing weight like crazy okay and so somebody's like what is going on with what they're doing anyway there's a compound in the dynamite making it's called dnp doug you know google google dnp for fat loss it's dynamite and so what it's a it's a very like cooks your insides it's a powerful you know what it is it's a powerful mitochondrial uncoupler so basically what it does is it makes your your your mitochondria extremely inefficient with energy wow so it's just burning energy goes crazy like crazy or also known as like slowly killing you from the inside so it's a highly toxic industrial chemical from the inside that it's extremely dangerous and unfit for human consumption all of which is very enticing to bodybuilders like oh really it's dangerous but it doesn't kill you right yeah doug look up the history of dnp is for fat loss so uh there was a book that was written in the night i want to say the 1990s uh by dan duquesne and he talked about it yeah he was the first one to bring it up so dan duquesne was this guy who um uh wrote about experimental stuff the craziest steroid bible guy i don't know if it was a steroid bible that he wrote but it was a book that he wrote and he wrote about dmp right so anyway i have we have a buddy we all know who this guy is i asked him i'm like did you ever try he goes oh yeah oh yeah he said he took it and he sat in his room and just cooked he sweat like crazy he said it was like like the sheets would turn yellow dude no from all the sweat yeah and he said you couldn't see the fat loss because you'd hold a little water and he goes and you'd work out and you'd have no energy because of course your mitochondrial uncoupler you have no energy left because your body's just burning it off he's like your workouts would suck yeah he goes then you'd come off of it and you would just be shredded so you might die but you'll be yeah yeah you'll be jacked on your way there and i'm like did you do you ever cool i'm like are you ever worried about dying all for all for a plastic trophy all for the coveted all for third place i hope he's listening right now yeah the idea that you're gonna you know what it is too is that i think of course it's the the trophy is is i guess somewhat but it's this idea that once you do that you can you can build this business so many so many people in the space i remember like that was the goal one go you know win and get the magazine cover yeah yeah and then you then you make all this money and it was like no you don't it doesn't work that way hey speaking of hacks i gotta share this is real fast hilarious hack that my wife did so you know we homeschool our kids or two kids or two little ones and that could be a bit difficult right getting them organized and stuff on top of it during the day she has workouts that she wants to do and it can be difficult without using the tv to get the kids to do something so she could go workout type of deal sometimes we're out there with her but that makes her workouts you know broken or whatever so she's messages me she's like dude i have the best this is like the most amazing hack i'm like what'd you do i'm like what'd you do i'm like what'd you do i'm like she goes when i give the kids an assignment i'll tell like we'll tell our our you know our five-year-old every time you complete a sentence mom has to do 10 lunges and so he's super motivated to get mom to do exercises meanwhile she gets her workout so the kids are doing their homework what next mom oh i gotta do rose that's pretty sneaky in between everything that's pretty smart they're doing their work here the whole pancake she's doing her katrina figured something out a where she got it i should ask her who she got it from uh like you know there's times when when he's off for a week or whatever and she's still at home she's got calls and stuff like that to make and same same thing doesn't want to put them on tv or stuff like that and so what works really well is and she'll know like obviously this is one of those days she's like i've got back-to-back calls for like three hours and i've got him home what do i do and so she'll plan ahead of time and that morning she'll set up like seven stations and they're timed and so it's like build a puzzle here you know cut out this thing and do this and so because it's like timed in their station organized yeah and organized there's like it's almost gamifies it a little bit and so that's brilliant it is brilliant and it works so so a timer goes off yep move to the next station yes yeah and he gets excited about it like he can't he's that's brilliant yeah he can't wait to see what the stations are and i gotta share that with jessica and you know she makes some of them fun and some of them are school related and some of them are like you know like you know like something like so it's like and she and if she sets it all up like that yeah because all that requires is you set up the stations oh that's brilliant i love that and and something about them like having a certain time doing each one and then the anticipation of the next one and all that's so cool that's so cool i don't know all right all right one more thing i gotta share with you guys i was reading some cool studies on um uh some cool data on forgiveness and how that affects uh our own health oh yeah and our own psyche uh so obviously for forgiveness is um this is a big theme uh in the christian faith it's a massive it's like the core theme but i looked up the science around it because i've read this before but i said let me pull up the data what does the data actually show on um unforgiveness versus unforgiveness and it's wild it's wild not forgiving people uh is essentially you're trying to kill yourself uh and through that process you think you're hurting someone else what it does to the body is it increases blood pressure heart rate it has terrible effects on uh on cognition the increased risk of illness goes chronic illness goes to the roof uh it's literally one of the most unhealthy things you could do for yourself it also is connected to other unhealthy behaviors so when you're holding a grudge inside or unforgiveness inside it leads to more substance abuse it leads to more toxic ooze more you know rage it leads to less uh a lowered ability to empathize and love the people that you want to actually love yeah and empathize and then forgiveness is so healing it's so healing for people um across the board it's wild do you believe it's a skill i believe well you want to ask you don't want to know what i really think so practice i think in a secular sense that would make his skill exactly i think in a secular sense true forgiveness for the hardest things because we could say forgive i could say oh the guy i was good i'm setting you up for that because that's the next thing is that you know how many people say they do but then still are harboring here's the deal you cut me off in traffic you stole my tennis shoes you know i could probably without i said a thing i could i could like i could in a secular way try to forgive you oh he was in a hurry oh they're having a tough time you know oh they didn't mean it you know i could do that but some things impossible well now the world of everything like reinforcing your own bias and like your own you know thought process you know in social media you don't see any forgiveness content it's well i think zero well what i was going to say is i don't know if it's possible outside of a strong uh spiritual practice i don't think so like no in the christian it's not promoted in the christian faith a big part of the faith is you realize quite strongly and the longer you do this the more you realize just how uh uh how much you don't deserve his grace and his forgiveness and the more you realize that the easier it is for you to extend it to someone else i don't see how that's possible without that honestly it's like somebody really does something bad to me or when i kids yeah without that impossible how would a physical ailment like you carry as a result of that so it's really interesting i know yeah it'd be interesting to hear i'd like to hear uh katrina's perspective because it's one of the things i admire uh with her like she just has this and and what i see from the outside perspective so again it'd be interesting to hear it from her words is uh part of that process or being i think being good at it is before you even have to forgive is actually reframing the situation that has happened to you and and looking at it from a different perspective in other words person cut you off or did a thing to you or use something more egregious did something to your family immediately looking at the uh potential positive or potential like like maybe they didn't mean for her to do that like she has this incredible gift to like defer right away to like they probably you probably under you interpreted that the wrong way i'm sure they meant it from this way like she has this and then even if it is like spiteful mean all the things yeah it has this ability to let go of it really quick it's powerful yeah i try to do as much as possible with um like traffic where you know something will happen and and uh you're like well it probably saved me from a car crash or it saved me from something else that was gonna like my entire life so i get all that and i i i understand all that but like you then you meet someone who's like this person uh sexually abused me my whole childhood yeah that's okay how do you forgive that yeah oh look at the positive no no no it would look like this like man i bet that person was really hurt and as a child i know that's what they say that's i know that's what i'm telling you what i see i watch it i watch it in real time happen the woman does it and and again so what i don't know is like i would be interesting if she classifies that as a skill or to your point that it has a higher faith power thing that it's more connected to but nonetheless because there has to be something it's it's something that she is far better at than i am and i try and emulate because it's like it's truly or at least i see it kind of like a skill it's like man it is difficult in those exact moments when it's happened to you or when you think because right away your mind goes to evil awful bad versus empathy where she goes which is man that person must have been so hurt or damaged or let it and so yeah i get that i just god like i could see how that would be so uh almost impossible i think it would be impossible for me if someone did something to one of my kids without the transcendent no way i'd be able to there's no way no way would i be i would i mean could i let go of like trying to hurt that other person maybe could i let go of like feeling uh a grudge or something like that towards them i don't think so i really don't without the transcendent now when i have you know a god in mind and i think of his grace uh then i think i can't because i know and like i said the more i follow the more i realize like i don't deserve an ounce of any of that uh but anyway it's really interesting when you look at just that even if you don't have any you know faith in any higher power whatever if you just look at the data it is one of the most poisonous things you could do well that you saw well i know where you were going with the that because i'm familiar with it which my point of bringing katrina up is like i just swear that's why she never gets sick she's so healthy she's just always like positive like it's i see front row seat of like somebody who probably the the person i know that does that better than anybody i know and her health her mindset her attitude like is a question of that i mean probably why she put up with me oh yeah that's true yeah i know you had a question it's like i don't know how have you guys ever watched uh the movie i know the answer is no but i'll just ask anyway have you guys ever watched les misrables the the movie slash musical do you guys know the story i have to admit that you guys know the story it's a classic story okay there's a scene in there it's a really good uh it's a really really good um story it's an old story okay but there's a scene in there where this man gets taken in by a priest he he needs a place to stay he's a poor man whatever the guy he's a poor man he's a poor man he's a poor man whatever the guy the priest takes him in and this man who lived on the streets sees like this gold plated or gold like cutlery and stuff and so when the priest goes to sleep who tried to help him feed him he's like i'm gonna steal some of this he takes some of it runs off gets caught by a police officer police officer was like where'd you get this he's like oh he gave it to me we'll see about that takes him back to the priest and he goes this man and of course the priest is like oh man i i housed you i fed you and now you stole from me and he goes this man he says you gave this to him is that really what happened and the priest goes yeah in fact there's more i need to give him gives him more stuff more gold sends this guy off in his way he's so transformed by this this is part of the story he's so transformed by this act of grace by this priest that he turns in he becomes this really great man that helps all these other people that's part of the story so yeah you guys should watch it yeah it's good who's the main actor is there isn't there a big actor in that okay maybe i will try to pretend i didn't see that movie honestly i didn't see it but i do know who it's a good movie i did yeah yeah i've cried play dude i know you cried i've seen more musicals than i'd like to admit i'm gonna be honest it's not it's not one of my like things i'd like to is is that why uh or are you just quietly watching on your own i get invited um i just have a client that was like you know big in the opera and so i've never been to an opera theater i've never been to an opera theater tickets to like i i don't know dude i appreciate art in general so i tell the form of it i'm like i'm in i i people i mean i think the last time i did something like that you were just like well i can't believe you did that i'm like i if you're talented in something exactly it's interesting to me especially like you're really talented in that thing like it doesn't even need to be a thing i'm really into i think watching people do their craft at a high level yeah at a very high level i can get me interested that's for sure butcher box is a great company that sends grass-fed meat heritage pork crate free chicken wild caught fish to your door if you like protein and you want it to be healthy and you like to save money go with butcher box their quality is top notch i only almost only eat my meat from butcher box because it's got a better fatty acid profile grass-fed beef has a better fatty acid profile than the conventional stuff heritage pork just tastes a lot better everything's raised humanely look you like salmon you want the omega-3s go with wild caught not farmed this is what you're going to get for butcher box and if you go through our link butcherbox.com slash mind pump check it out here's what you get free ribeyes new york strip steaks or filet mignons in every order included for free for a year plus you get twenty dollars off your first box again it's butcherbox.com slash mind pump here comes the show our first caller is kaylee arizona hi kaylee hi kaylee hello how are you guys doing good how can we help you good uh okay so i'm just gonna like everybody else i'm gonna read my question so i'm getting married november 11th and my biggest goal is to look and feel my absolute best without sacrificing my health i'm 32 and a half hashimoto's i recently started working with vita bella to optimize my thyroid and address my low vitamin d i grew up playing softball and volleyball so i've had like a fairly muscular lower body uh for the last couple of years i've been lifting five days a week three up or two lower but since listening to the podcast i started doing map symmetry so i'm on week three phase two and then i was thinking about doing maps aesthetic right now i'm about 185 190 pounds 32 body fat i own a cleaning business so i get about 10 000 to 12 000 steps a day i'm eating 21 to 2400 calories about 170 grams of protein uh so if i was your client just want to know like what do you recommend what do you what am i doing right wrong yeah anything no thanks for calling i'm glad you're working on optimizing hormones um i think uh for most people maps aesthetic is just uh it's way too much volume especially if you have a very busy job and you're already active um i do like something like muscle mommy for you after map symmetry how are you how's map symmetry working for you right now by the way uh it's good i actually don't have as much difference as i kind of thought i would um i struggled phase one and then phase two has been good awesome awesome okay and when you say you want to look your best uh be more uh descriptive what does that look like for you do you have a body fat percentage goal or um i originally had a weight goal of like 170 but really the more i listen to you guys the more realizing like weight doesn't actually matter uh so i probably i don't know 25 27 i totally doable i don't know yeah totally doable yeah yeah you you're gonna be in you'll be in the reverse diet phase right now uh and trying to build before we go into a cut what are your what are your strengths like on your lifts like the big lifts like squat deadlift what are you what are you doing i was afraid you'd ask me this um because the program that i've been doing they it didn't include uh like really squats and deadlifts uh it was a lot of like uh single leg what the heck i can't think of what they're called lunges deadlifts no toe touch the one that you step ups oh step up step ups yeah so i'm doing like a lot of single leg step ups and it was like 190 ish um and then i was doing leg press and i was like over 500 pounds um um rdl's is like 135 ish i've been afraid to you're strong to okay yeah you're really strong you're really you're really strong and if we start squatting and deadlifting uh this is going to be really good you're gonna you're in a good you're in a good place if you're averaging about 24 to 2500 calories i think if we can get you up to 29 closer to 3000 and then cut down to let's say 21 22 i think you would see a nice consistent uh body comp change okay but i'd want to reverse you before uh bringing you down yeah we got good time right now yeah you got november's wedding time um i wouldn't start the cut until literally mid to late october the last four to four to five weeks would be the cut right now would be the reverse like sal saying so up until mid october we would be on a you know slow reverse diet because during that if we do this correctly incrementally and getting stronger uh we'll probably hover around the same weight but you'll feel leaner tighter you'll probably drop a couple percent yeah you'll lean you'll lean out you'll build you'll build muscle and so you'll you'll see progress in the right direction as far as your physique changing and then the final like four weeks going into the wedding would be the cut that would be the cut okay yeah especially are you before you got on the phone with uh our partners at mp hormones were you already taking thyroid or are you not yes i was um i've been taking it for i've had hoshimotos for five years i've had hypothyroidism for 20 okay okay what are you taking synthroid so yeah uh no i've been level thyroxine okay okay and lyothenine okay good yeah no this this will be great but it's going to be reverse diet and then cut very straightforward where you will mess this up okay here's where you're going to mess this up if you mess it up is you're going to do too much yeah okay okay because if you do too much you won't get there faster you'll get there slower you'll still see some results uh your athletic background you're strong you probably have a high tolerance uh for training volume uh you haven't you're you're an athlete so you probably got good genetics for that so you'll feel like you're getting away with it like it's working but it's going to set you up for failure later and so what you sometimes see oftentimes see especially this is very common for wedding goals okay very common for wedding goals people get to a particular particular body for their wedding and then the following six months to a year they rebound and worse than they started out and so oftentimes that's because they just did a lot more too much than was necessary and it just wasn't sustainable okay okay and maps aesthetic is a great program but it is a competitive level amount of volume um and people when they hear that what they think is oh competitive level volume i'm going to get there faster no no that means that it's not appropriate for the vast majority of people now if you've been living your life like a bodybuilder for the last four years and everything's geared towards that and this is what you do then that kind of volume might be okay uh but for you know 90 probably five percent of people it's just way too much muscle mommy is a decent amount of volume yeah uh so it's like moderate to high whereas aesthetic is high to very high um and i think muscle mommy will give you way better results okay yeah because i want like you know the delts and then yep badass and you know that we got that in yeah we got you if you don't have muscle mommy i'll send that to you no i don't okay i'll send that over to you and then if if you want to like nail it down if you want like hey i'm gonna i'm gonna just i want someone to coach me we have great coaches and so that's another option you can be like hey can you work with me up until my wedding day and then they'll just dial everything in through the whole process if you want some support like that okay cool all right all right thank you guys appreciate your help you got it thanks for calling in we'll send that to you bye-bye everybody always goes to the most extreme programs i know yeah you know it's funny you can see when she said it she knew it she's like i know you're gonna say yeah i feel like she knew she knew the cool part is she's strong and she hasn't been squatting and dead lifting yeah uh putting her on a reverse diet leaning into those big lifts uh she's gonna see great results great results yeah but i'm gonna i'm gonna say this this is like so common okay and people listening know what i'm talking about you get quote unquote in shape for your wedding and then you fall way out of shape after the wedding the following year or two or three and it's because we aim so hard for this target of this day and we're not going to be able to do it we're going to be able to do it we're going to be able to do it and we do way more than we can ever possibly sustain way more than what is effective and when we're out of it and things are settled and we're married and whatever then we quote unquote relax and we get this massive rebound and this is so common that i would see with people who try to hire me for their wedding but i would see it more often when people would hire me after their wedding and they would say to me like i got in shape for my wedding that was two years ago then i gained 30 pounds and uh and then we're working through this process our next caller is from toronto olivia how you doing olivia what's happening good how are you good how can we help you okay so i wrote it out so i stay on track so i'm just gonna read it for you guys do it so i've been consistently training for about seven years and i've worked with coaches for the last four i spent two years with one coach before switching to another who has experience coaching olympic athletes i've been very committed over the years i completed 75 hard have tracked my nutrition diligently and have followed plans at both extremes at one point i was essentially in contest prep conditions with carbs down in the double digits and 60 minutes of cardio six days a week on the other end i've also spent long periods reverse dieting and bringing up calorie calories substantially before slowly cutting again despite trying multiple approaches with experienced coaches i've never been able to achieve the level of leanness that i feel like i should be able to reach i'm currently training to become a firefighter while working full-time as a 911 dispatcher so i have a fairly stressful lifestyle and shift work to balance um my biggest issue right now that i'm facing is that i'm completely burnt out with training i used to love being in the gym and had to force myself to take rest days but now it's the complete opposite where i feel like i have to force myself to go almost every workout and i don't enjoy it anymore and i'm hoping that you can help me figure out why i seem so resistant to leaning out despite years of structured training and nutrition and how to regain my enjoyment with training without sacrificing my firefighting performance and if it's primarily a programming issue a recovery issue a stress issue or if something bigger that i'm missing olivia recovery thanks for calling in yeah uh i'm sorry you're in this place that really sucks yes sounds like it was a passion of yours and now you're like hey what's going on yeah why do you think why do you think you feel so burnt out i think i feel burnt out because i spent so long being so accurate with tracking didn't miss any workouts i would skip the gym um and i just like never got to the results that i thought i was going to get to so i feel like it just burnt me out where i felt like oh if i just don't put all this time and effort into it i look the same anyways so i just like completely turned me off from going and now i'm like in the biggest gym rut that i've ever been in like usually it passes after a few weeks but it's been like months where i'm like i don't even care to go to the gym anymore yeah i'm gonna ask you a crazy sounding question but you have to pick one okay okay okay what would you rather have a love and passion uh for fitness and nutrition that feels relaxed comfortable and one that you can sustain or the ultimate goal of how you want to look i feel like i i don't know because i've never been to the point of being like looking how i want to look so i don't know what mentality i have when it comes to that but i definitely know that i do miss the passion for the gym and being in the gym like i definitely feel the mental switch of like not being as passionate and i definitely miss that so i would say based on what i do know i would go with regaining my passion for the gym good it was a trick question the answer you just gave is going to give you what you want yeah okay so you're gonna have to break free a little bit of your old ways that old friend that you have the comfort you find beating yourself up and how you separate yourself from your peers being able to outwork them and out you know train anybody and get after it and you're really young uh but your your body is telling you it's burnt yeah if you keep doing the cycle of pushing yourself that you've done since you were a kid um you're going to get some real bad hormone issues as you get into your late 20s and your mid 30s and it's gonna be very difficult uh to repair this is actually a good sign it's a good sign that you feel burnt out because your body is is stopping you from getting to that place and by the way your body will want to hold on to body fat yeah when you're doing that it's just going to want to hold on to it do you know why your body wants to do that no because it's a protective mechanism you need it you need your fertility you need those things and so what we got to do is a totally different approach i i even want to i want to push back a little bit too on the you you said you've been from like each extreme as far as like you know you're trying to get shredded 12 1200 calories stair master like crazy and then you've been on the other extreme reverse dieting and you've been on the other extreme reverse dieting and you've been on the other extreme reverse and you've been on the other extreme reverse dieting and you've been on the other extreme reverse when you were reverse dieting what did your training look like um uh so i my best reverse i would say was when i switched coaches to the one that has like olympic clients and he completely pulled my cardio and i think like my weight just fell off so quick um so i wasn't really doing much cardio just like walks and stuff um but nothing intense and then like training was the same like maybe four days a week during my reverse is your coach mainly an exercise coach yes well like bodybuilding coach but i stopped working with him a couple months ago just because i've been in such a rut but yeah he's a bodybuilding coach okay okay um because i'd love to have you work with one of our coaches yeah and fix this problem um and they can help you with workout programming as well yeah we got to get that passion back we got to get your body back on track feeling good hormones balanced dopamine serotonin back where they need to be so that you fall back in love with this and what it'll feel like i'm just going to encourage you olivia when you do this right compared to what you've done in the past here's what it's going to feel like okay this is what you're going to say to yourself how is this working i feel i feel like i'm barely doing anything easy almost what is going on it feels like my body just wants to respond i'm not even doing anything even though you are but compared to what you've done in the past it's going to feel like that because you've taken a very hard approach in the past which was just uh ineffective and and that's why you're in this place right now because probably your tenacity and your age and you probably have good uh some good athletic genetics um at some point it just runs out and that's why you're in this place right now but with good coaching it'll probably take uh you said you've been in about a few months of feeling like this yeah it's definitely been probably like six months that i've been feeling like it's gonna probably take about six to nine months uh of changing things up to get you feeling like you're on fire again yeah okay um and that will look like some reverse dieting it'll look like uh strength training that's gonna be less volume than you're used to it's gonna look like you need to be patient what you're gonna fight olivia is when you start to feel that spark come back because the spark will start to come back sooner than six months or nine months if we do this right you'll feel that within 30 days you'll be like oh my god i feel like i want to go to the gym again fight the urge to go crazy in the gym fight the urge to do your old stuff again well this is why you have the coach i mean this is where the coach will will talk to you from doing that because if you just said we just set you on your way this this is what the pattern that happens is you start to feel that motivation and then all of a sudden you go back into a lot of the other behaviors that that got us here in the first place that's right so your coach will walk you through this and just so you know olivia because you're young you've been doing this for a while which i love one of my favorite things to do is get my hands on somebody who's your age who's been doing this for a while because it's just we can really change the trajectory in a radical way you know at 23 versus when i get someone at 43 um yeah we could really really change the trajectory and what this will look like for the rest of your life is probably 85 percent of the time you're cruising 15 percent of the time you're sprinting now what you've probably done most of your life is 85 sprinting 15 cruising because you're forced to yeah we're going to flip that on its head and that's what it's always going to look like and you'll have the best body and the best relationship with this that you could ever imagine but this is you think i was just going too hard on the guy which is why my body wasn't responding 100 for sure for sure 100 there's there's never okay uh someone your height and where you're at and your background should never see 1200 calories 75 hard is completely inappropriate 60 minutes of cardio completely inappropriate like i mean there's so many things that are just just so you know like uh you know you could go hardcore crazy training crazy cardio crazy strength training but you're doing it for like a block of like six weeks eight weeks yeah yeah this isn't where you're living yeah so what you've you've probably done is you've lived there for as long as you can until your body forces you to slow down yeah yeah and by that point you're you've dug such a deep hole that you got to really come out of it and it feels like a nightmare the beauty of this you barely want to peak like that with that kind of intensity the beauty of this on the other side of this is is the body you've always wanted doing a fraction did you see the post i just did uh yesterday of katrina yes yeah like that's that's the body you've always wanted doing a fraction did you see the post i just did that's the difference like that's she was the running 10 to 15 miles plyometric like just and having and having to keep her calories low and that always kind of meant but she never had the body she wanted she always was like i feel boxy and i don't feel like bulky and i don't like the way i look and it like weight training higher calorie like more appropriate changed changed her hormone profile changed the shape of her body and it's like a fraction of the effort and work she has to put in and then if you want to do a little sprint of eight weeks or 10 weeks you get after it and you're able to accomplish things that's right never could before that's right yeah yeah the problem is like i know that that discipline lives inside of me like i it was probably like a year that i did not go a gram off my meal plan like very very strict and i was very disciplined and i wasn't tempted to go off of it like i was enjoying what i was doing but i feel like i've gotten to the point where i'm like i don't even want to do that anymore but i know that that discipline lives inside me and i want to find it again and enjoy it there's a there's a there's a there's a line between discipline and dysfunction i want you to understand that discipline is great but it can it can definitely cross over into dysfunction when discipline becomes your identity so you do have that gear obviously you do have that discipline we need to point it in the right direction yeah and so if we point it in this direction and trust me it's gonna it's gonna challenge your discipline because i'm telling you right now 30 days in you're gonna be like oh hell yeah i'm on fire let's go and your coach is gonna tell you no don't you dare stay on this course you'll be like i have all this energy like i can do it and you're like no you're gonna stay where you're at that's gonna be you're gonna have to apply your discipline in that direction yeah yeah what what do you what do you do for a living do you work nine nine eleven yeah i'm i'm a 911 dispatcher and i'm training to get into firefighting okay good this will be great yeah this is gonna be such a good skill for you because you know this better than than than we do but in that field that the people who are successful most successful in that field do one thing very well manage stress yeah okay because firefighters emergency workers shift workers they burn out it's a very common thing burnout injury hormone dysfunction the ones who can do it manage stress and recovery very well so this is like perfect timing right before you get in there we got you yeah and then another thing i want to ask is so right now like in general my what my shift work looks like is five on five off so my night shifts are 14 hours and my day shifts are 10 hours so what i've been doing is on my working days i don't work out i just do like active like walks or like something small um and then on my off days is when i'm training yeah do you think that's a good way to you're on the right you're definitely on the right track definitely on the right track it'll be much more structured much more individualized what your coach is going to probably do like if i was working with you i have a good idea of how i'd start you but then i'd monitor you and adjust uh uh on the fly yeah but you're on the right track definitely like more of you'll be you'll be able to apply more exercise stress on your days off far less on the days where you work yeah and so you're totally on the right track okay okay that's good to know yeah olivia let me have somebody call you okay sounds good and then uh if i got your permission i'd like to hop on some of these calls and say hi to you yeah yeah of course let's go sounds good all right all right olivia thank you guys appreciate it you got it i i love when i hear uh a young 20 something year old be like i've been doing this for years i want to learn how to do it right when you get your hands on somebody this age yeah you know the changes you can make that just change the trajectory of their life is phenomenal and i've had a few clients like this it's great yeah probably like a map 15 protocol is more appropriate for her right now yeah i mean with that type of a schedule that she you know which will be a such a hard thing for a huge shift oh yeah oh yeah go do two or two it'd be really beneficial though for recovery by the way with her mentality of course she wants to do it yeah of course thankfully she's super resilient right now so our next caller is alana from new jersey hi alana how you doing alana hi guys oh this is this is surreal how can we help you welcome uh i'm gonna do what everybody else does i'm gonna say first thank you for all the information you guys are fantastic i'm so happy i found you and i'm just gonna read directly from the question to the same time let's go let's get it so um i'd like some advice on how to move forward and some tips on how to move forward and some tips on how to move forward and some explanation after disheartening dexa i'm going to give you as much info as possible I'm 38, 5'4", 113 pounds. I have a history of eating disorders in my 20s where I was eating like 1,000 calories a day. And then aside from that very restrictive eating, about 1,500 calories a day since I was 14. So two years ago, I started working with a coach to go through my first bulk and cut cycle, went really well, had my first DEXA after that, and it was 24% body fat, even though I was four pounds heavier than when I started. So that was a win. And then after my year with my coach, I stayed at maintenance and then tried another cut and got down to 20.1% body fat. And then I wanted to do a traditional bulk and cut cycle on my own. So I bumped up my calories from 2,150 maintenance to 2,200. So it wasn't enough really to be considered a bulk, but I was scared to kind of do it on my own. But I did, you know, like 30 minutes a day, five days a week split. Um, made a ton of rep and weight PRS, uh, 10 K steps a day, strength definitely increased. Uh, and all of a sudden I could do unassisted pull-ups and I have a home gym. So I, you know, I chest press like a hundred pounds because I have no one to spot me, but like, I felt good about that. Um, so things looked like they were going in the right direction. And then, um, I did a 10 week cut at 17 to 1800 calories. Um, and I hate cuts. It's because of the history of the eating disorders. They can be kind of triggering, but you know, I, I did it. I kept my lip, my lifts, they were all maintained. I bumped up the steps like two or 13, uh, uh, two or 3000 steps more. Um, and I thought it looked great. Like, like all of a sudden I had all this muscle definition. My shoulders are bigger, you know, compared to pictures, everything looked like it was in the right direction. And then I got another DEXA scan and it showed me that I had increased my body fat 1%. And that I'd only gained 0.3 pounds of muscle mass. And I thought like, how the heck could that be possible? And I know there, you know, there's a margin for error and all that, but, um, you know, and everything was, you know, protein was kept high, uh, sleep is seven and a half hours on average. Um, and my goal was like 18 to 19% body fat. So, um, I guess I'm just asking a couple of questions, right? Um, what happened with the DEXA? Um, how can I be more, I guess, competent in reverse dieting to know when I've hit my maintenance, when I've hit a true bulk? Um, and also what MAPS program would you suggest? Cause I don't have any of them. Yeah. Good question. Thanks for calling in. Alana, what do your steps look like on a regular basis? What's your activity level? Um, it's about 12 to 13,000 steps. Okay. That's what I would guess. And that's the only cardio I do. So let me, let's go back. You mind if I ask you some more questions? We'll go back. A little bit. Yeah. When you worked with the coach and you did your first, you know, when you said you, you were able to bump your calories, body fat at 24%, that process, that whole process, what was that experience like for you? It was awesome. It was especially the reverse diet that she put me on initially. Cause I was eating 1500 calories a day and you know, she was bumping me up a hundred calories every week or so. And I was actually watching the scale go down. It was like my metabolism wasn't, you know, so suppressed anymore. And it was, it was really cool. What were the scary parts of it? Um, it was, it was the weight gain, you know, I, I had never been at a point in my life where I was purposefully trying to gain weight. So, but so that's why I was so happy to have her because she, she would talk me down from the ledge of like, no, no, this is normal. This is what we want. You need to, you know, gain mass and that's going to mean the scale is going to go up. Yeah, for sure. Now. And logically, uh, you know all that, but let's say you tried that on your own without the coach. Do you think you would have stopped at some point? Yeah. I guess so. I guess so. Because when I did try to do the bulk on my own, I went from like 2150 to 2250, it was like a hundred calorie increase me thinking, oh, that's, that's enough. That's going to do. And I know now, thanks to you guys, that was not, that was not enough. Totally. Totally. And then when you did that and you felt good, you're like, man, I'm strong. I got energy. What was the, what, what convinced you to try to cut the calories again to 1700? You know, it was, it was the fact that I wanted to get down. To that, you know, 18 to 19% body fat, it really was kind of like, uh, a vanity metric, you know? So I thought, oh, like, you know, I have, I have good muscle. Let me just, let me just do another quick cut to get it down, but it did not pan out the way I thought. Yeah, no, it totally makes sense. And I totally get how you feel through this process. There's a disconnect, uh, that happens with this, with people who struggle with, um, you know, either a fear of gaining or fear of losing. That was me. Uh. There's a disconnect between your mind, which is what you know what's right, and also your heart, which is what you feel. So it's like, I know this is the right thing, but oh my God, this is scary and it doesn't feel right type of deal. First off, I'm going to encourage you the, it was, it's well within the margin of error. Uh, your DEXA scan was well within the margin of error. Okay. So what you probably did is you cut your calories and still maintained. So nothing happened. The only thing that happened is you ate less. Now I'm going to tell you what, what could have happened, what could have happened is you continue to reverse diet and you would have got better and better results. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what I'm doing now. But it's scary. Yeah. Yeah. It's a scary process. Um, so I'll, I'll tell you what you, I think you need to do, but I'll, and then I'll tell you what I think will work best for you. What you need to do is you need to stop focusing on cutting for a while. And I want you to think, build, build, build, build. I'm going to build my body. I'm not going to cut my body. I'm going to build my body and it's actually going to give you what you're looking for. Yeah. Your calories are, you know, five, four with as much as you exercise and as consistent as you are, you probably don't ever miss a workout. Uh, you're, you, you're going to get your calories up in the high two thousands, maybe even three right now. I'm at, I, so since the initial email, I've, I've gone from at the beginning of June 2150 to right now I'm at 2,400 and I've only gained like a pound, a pound and a half. Yeah. It's a process. You're going to need to stop weighing yourself. Now I don't, there's nothing wrong with weighing yourself because what you're, what you're weighing, a pound could be whatever, could be muscle, probably could be water. Uh, but, uh, building into the body you want at your height and weight is probably going to look like a heavier weight, but you're leaner, you're leaner, you're stronger and you look better, but you're going to be heavier on the scale. The scale probably messes you up. Uh, and I would imagine you probably weigh yourself daily. Yeah. How many times a day do you weigh yourself? Be honest. I'm just one in the morning. Just one. Yeah. Okay. So every single day you weigh yourself and that number is going to mess you up on this process. 24 is still low. I could see you getting up to like 28, 29, maybe even 3000, maybe higher. Uh, and you'll be, yeah. And you'll be really surprised, uh, at how you feel and how you look with that. Uh, but it's going to be a bit of a process. The one thing that the coach did with you that I think was that you mentioned that was really valuable. And I'd love your opinion on this is the talking you off the ledge through the process. Yeah. Yeah. So if we're going to do this right, you're going to probably need to work with a coach again, probably for the next six months or so to be able to do this properly because through this process, you're going to want to stop, you're going to get up to 25, maybe 25, 50, maybe 26, like, okay, this is high enough to cut. Let me get back on a cut type of deal and you're going to totally thwart, uh, the potential progress. So you're, you're going to be moving up for a long, for a while without a single cut. Meanwhile, accomplishing body comp change through that process. So what would you suggest like six months? It's it's, we're probably looking at six to nine months of just strength and building without a single cut. Okay. And you think, you think upwards of 28, 29, how do you know, how do you know when, when the upper limit is? I mean, I don't know for sure, but based on my experience. I've been working with people like you, your height, your size, uh, I, and you, like I said, you're consistent with your workouts. You take a lot of steps every single day. That's typically where we fall typically. So but I don't know, could be higher. I mean, there are some, some young women we've worked with, uh, who built muscle very well doing this, who got them and we got them in the low to mid three thousands and they were smaller than you are. That's I love, I love it. That's the thing. Like I wanted to come on here and almost, I hate to say it, but like get the permission that that was not too high. It's not, it's not, let me tell you what's going to be different. This is a so close to home for me cause this is a, your numbers are almost right in line with Karen when we first started. The hard part is going to be this. When I, when I bump you 200 calories or 300 calories one week, uh, you're going through your cycle. Uh, you see the scale, you decide to get on there after I told you not. To, and you see four pounds go up and on top of that you feel fluffy or you see water weight and you feel for sure we're putting body fat on and we're totally fine. And I know we're totally fine. That's going to be the hard part and that's going to happen through this process. And so preparing yourself mentally for those weeks that you'll have, um, is important. This is where the coach will come in really, really handy is, and this is where she leans on me a lot is like you. You have a. distorted vision of yourself just like she does like she sees herself differently like she'll tell me oh my god i feel this way i'm like you're crazy i'm looking at you and you look great and we're doing great and we're fine you're holding a little bit of water we're on our period right now relax you know i'm saying that's the water's going to come right out in about four days and you're going to all of a sudden feel way better so relax we're doing good stay the course and so that that's the difficult part of of what but what sal's saying easily um we could get up to 27 20 easily 27 200 maybe more than that and that'll actually drop the body fat percentage so what it'll probably look like is five six more pounds on the scale and a lower body fat percentage and higher calories and you'll love the way you you will love the way you look but it'll take some time because again you we and we're all guilty of this by the way too i know we're sitting here talking to you but i'm guilty of this by the way too i know we're sitting here guilty of this like we all pick our own bodies apart and when you look in the mirror you can't help but look right at your flaw right away first you don't look at the positive things that's happening and so it helps just to have a second pair of eyes that's reminding you like no you look great you're doing great that's normal and just stay the course but yeah it's a it's a few months down the road but it's definitely a higher calorie place a lot more muscle and a lot easier too yeah do you just to give you a even more of an extreme example alana what's your so your body weight right now what are you weighing right now 113 okay so you're 113 body fat percentage is sitting right around low to mid 20s yeah it's probably 2021 her stats are almost identical so let's say you're 21 body fat right now okay and let's say you gained 10 pounds on the scale so now you're 123 and your body fat percentage is still 21 i'm going to tell you what happened okay you gained muscle and you also gained some body fat of 120 of 123 is more pounds of body fat than 21 of 113 does that make sense yes so you still gained body fat but your body fat percentage remained the same but here's the difference you're heavier on the scale you might even feel bigger in your clothes you look great and you've got a much faster metabolism and this is tough for a lot of people because they see the scale they feel their genes and they're like uh i know my body fat percentage is right around the same but i'm heavier i feel bigger and i'm not as fat as i used to be and i'm not as fat as i used to be and they freak out but you're crushing you're kicking butt so your mentality's got to go more towards strength and muscle you're going to really make that switch and that's what'll make this work and it's going to set you up what's going to set you up for good hormones good energy great libido great motivation i can eat more i'm flexible uh with my diet i mean i can eat at 3 000 calories which means i can go out on the weekend and enjoy a few things and it doesn't bother me i don't have to like keep my hands on the steering wheel so tight that's what it's going to feel like but you and understand that the scale might look different yeah yeah i think i think that was the thing that bothered me is like i i felt all of the right things but then it said i i almost gained no muscle mass i was like how could that be like my shoulders are way bigger than they were like how and i i liked the way that i looked i was like i don't know how that could be yeah this is when dexa scans can be a real pain in the ass i mean it also happens it happens also too when you've been running too low of calorie for a very long time i don't know if you've listened to the episode when i reviewed it and i was like i don't know how that could be i don't know how that could be uh corinne's first dexa scan that happened to us i was so excited because she was hitting prs we were doing everything that was supposed to happen the way and she put weight on and it was all body fat zero muscle imagine me we've been doing this as long as i have coaching her i tell her to get the dexa scan because i'm excited oh man did i feel it was just too soon because i hadn't got her her body in a place that it needed to be balanced and hormonally where it needed to go she needed to put body fat percentage on before we started to put her body fat percentage on i jumped the gun and had that reading too early and so it's very possible and that what that is is your body signaling it needs more it needed more body fat it needs more calories and so you can see a lot of things like in the gym positive and you can feel like they're moving positive and then you go do the dexa scan it goes no we just put body fat on right now because we need it and here's the crazy thing we we let a number tell us how we're supposed to feel yeah even though we feel good so it's like man i feel great then you get this report card and you're like no i don't feel great and then you get this report card and you're like no i don't feel great and then you get this it's like what this means nothing i feel amazing i feel strong i look good so um so that's the that's the prescription uh i don't think it'll i think you're gonna have a tough time doing it by yourself that's fair i think i think hard i think it would be a good idea for you to work with a coach for six to nine months uh and then get used to the process and then at the end of it it won't be so hard okay okay can i have somebody call you yeah all right that'd be great all right and also what um what maps program would you suggest they're gonna customize they're gonna customize it for you yeah okay yeah that's all included and then they'll they'll they'll customize it just for you awesome all right you're gonna do good yep thank you thanks for calling in of course bye recording yeah that's that's tough she i mean so so she was if she just even if she didn't go more on a reverse life she just stayed at the 2250 oh yeah she would have done way better yeah i mean the fact that they they i'm surprised the coach uh let her cut i would have no he didn't or she didn't when she was with the coach it was reverse that this is when she did it on her own oh because i was like man she should just kept going like that totally great that's what i would have done i mean she saw scale go or she saw the scale go down while she was increasing calories she went from 2150 to 2250 yeah that was her that was her bulk it was 100 extra calories i mean this is these are these are corinne numbers yep she weighs she weighs almost the exact same on the scale similar in height uh similar in the calorie maintenance similar in the steps uh yeah very very very similar and you know i'm constantly trying to push corinne to the high 2000 calories and this is the pushback i get is like it feels like a lot you know and you go through that phase of it feels fluffy it feels uncomfortable um sometimes one of the best things to do with people like that uh is to completely take them away from body comp completely take them away from aesthetics and move them completely towards performance you're going to do a power lifting competition you're going to do a power lifting competition so you just don't even think about that the hardest thing to bring the hardest part about that though is that that's the thing that they that they want i know i'm saying so it's like that's what i mean it's like you gotta we gotta want something else for a little while yeah yeah to ask them to let go of the reason why they're wanting you to help them is to get to a certain place and then you go like we're going to completely not focus on that is a really tough thing totally yeah our next caller is joey from tennessee joey hey what's happening buddy hey guys how's it going good man good man what's up big dad good hey guys so sorry in advance i got my got my hands full today no worries beautiful family have our have our little have a little four-year-old and then we got a little seven-month-old here so uh basically my question is uh how to how to how to get started uh how to stay consistent because of you know these two and then my work schedule i try to wake up early on days that i don't work hang on baby and um it's just i'm not quite able to like i try to set my alarm for 4 30 or 5 o'clock and every day i just i can't it's it's hard i i'm not an not an early morning riser and i can't i feel that yep i can't get to the garage and get to the i've got a garage jam i can't i can't get myself up and motivated to to get up and going that early in the morning even though i my work schedule is a six to six on my days off i'm i'm ready to sleep in a little bit um so i was wondering would it be better to to get more quality sleep or would it be better to just stay up a little bit later and get a workout in at night since i have a gym in the garage yeah good question and you mind if i read through your email a little bit just for absolutely okay so um so you got what's happening right now you've been consistent before you've been consistent before you've been consistent before you've been consistent before but what you're finding now is you're it's very hard to be consistent yes you work a rotating shift yes okay and what this looks like is 30 was it 36 hours one week and 48 hours the next week and the work schedule rotates every 28 days so yes 6 a.m to 6 p.m for 28 days and then you go 6 p.m to 6 a.m for 28 days correct okay and you also got kids little ones well you got well you got two little ones do you know why it's hard for you to wake up and work out yeah yeah it's a job just exhausted yeah man first of all the schedule's rough first of all you're a good man you're doing good stuff bro you're prioritizing the right things what we need to do is we need to use exercise in a way to improve your quality of life okay so we got to look at it that way i'll tell you what it looks like and it's going to be a lot less than what you think i'll tell you what it looks like it's it's map 15 when you can and it's when you're home at six o'clock at night it's not trying to get up early and disrupt the sleep patterns that you already have disrupted it's when you have the time it's too late and what it looks like actually because you have kids and they're probably still going to be awake even when you come straight home from work is you go in the garage and you maybe even bring bring them or you bring the little one but like this is this was when max like we would set up his little table to be playing with playdoh and then i would do one or two sets and then i'd be playing with him for 10-15 minutes i have a 10-15 minute rest but between the next set that's okay right you know i'm saying it's and it's okay if you only get one exercise done and then you're back in the house for a while and you got you're taking stuff and then you go back and you do another like give yourself the permission to lift to lift like that it's okay it's actually really good it's totally okay and with a maps 15 type of protocol you're only knocking out two exercises a day and so when you we come in and out of of the workout that that those two exercises could take you two hours because you're doing which is totally okay or you do it all at once or 20 minutes yeah or sometimes the kids are totally engulfed in the play-doh and having a good time and one's maybe napping and you get the both exercises done in the 15-20 minutes you're supposed to and you're done yeah so that but give yourself the permission for it to look like that now if you're if you're really tired and you're really exhausted you skip that day and you just jump back on the next day that's right just say too within the maps 15 it has like an advanced and the regular um programming where you actually have like a trx suspension trainer i think some days too if you feel like a little less intensity would be appropriate i would do that uh plan and then you know kind of alternate and toggle between the two it basically what it looks like joey is just a little bit every day yeah that's it okay and the days you skip along that line go ahead yeah sorry uh along that line uh i've got matt maps uh prime how would you and also have i mean i've got a lot of y'all stuff um how would you incorporate or would you even worry about trying to incorporate uh maps prime and then also uh the no bs six pack form you're not going to do any you're not going to add the no bs six pack formula yeah with prime if you have any issues where you notice mobility issues you you can only throughout the day you could practice at any time of the day yeah you're at work whatever you practice moves whenever you can some of the mobility movements that are in there that's it but otherwise the mass 15 workout is just a workout yeah okay so like uh last week i went uh i set up my barbell because i got this one down for a nap and as soon as i started kind of did maybe two warm-up sets and then started my started my first working set and as soon as i did she woke up yeah of course yeah so i want to uh i ended up you know kind of settling her down 30 minutes later uh would i just go back straight that's right yeah yes right back to it it's 30 minutes yes yes totally tip so central your cnn warm-up is is designed really to to kind of make your body move the way it should so it kind of helps with what's called muscle recruitment patterns a warm-up yeah or connecting actually lasts for a few hours now the the stronger you are the less true this is so if you're out there warming up to do a 350 pound squat then you might want to do another warm-up set before you jump into it so the stronger you get the more careful you got to be with your warm-up but if you're like just trying to string some days of exercise together i wouldn't worry about it okay um also i got some blood work done last week and i've listened to y'all you know probably a year and a half or so my testosterone came back laughably like it was uh 164 okay so i was i told i told my uh primary care that i would like to get it up as as much as i can naturally but how much how much would i even expect to be able to get it up naturally if it would it be in that low just from you know lifting eating right well i'm going to tell you the biggest issue that you have with your testosterone is your is your is your is your switching your massively switching schedule yeah you're having a dramatic shift in circadian rhythm every 28 days right it's such a big circadian switch that it takes about a week and a half to two weeks to adjust and then you have a week or two before you gotta do it again every now and then i'm able to i'm able to swap with with a counterpart that's on the opposite schedule so i am able to every now and then work well joey are you are you planning the 28th i'm able to work the you know 50 joey are you planning on having more kids what was that sound are you planning on having more kids lost them uh i will we'll see so that's a that's a that's an argument for that's an argument for another day so i don't know how much you can raise your testosterone naturally because here's the deal we could double it and it would still be kind of low yeah so so what i what what you might want to do is you might want to work uh so our partners at mphormones.com either they could put you on testosterone but if you plan on having more kids i would say hold off but you could take something called enclomophene put them on hcg enclomophene will raise your testosterone we'll start with that and that'll raise your testosterone significantly yeah but even if he goes on testosterone he can run hcg and he can still get he could but they're always iffy right but you know so there's there's options and i do think that you need you would want some you would want some a little bit of medical intervention for the testosterone it'll be like it'll be like life it'll be like the lights turned on oh my god it'll be life-changing it'll be life-changing with where your levels are at and how you feel and everything you're doing it'll feel life-changing so it's you're very much so a candidate you use a lift yeah so so i i honestly i don't know if the natural route while you maintain this crazy schedule is going to do a lot yeah uh so i do think a little medical intervention would probably be a good idea while you're working this way okay don't you're you're we i we typically push people to go all natural check all the boxes for you're a good you're 36 years old you have two kids you have a crazy work schedule you're a good candidate for somebody to have intervention a medical intervention right now and that doesn't mean you can't down the road say kids are older life has changed uh come off and try and redo it naturally so it's not like you're once you choose to start taking an hrt you can never not try and boost it naturally later down the road you could also i mean i mean you could also have kids while on testosterone that's right using hcg so there's options right i think that would help you a lot with your work and life for sure yeah yes all right blink if you're okay i think that pretty much covers it all right man all right joe send you mass 15 yeah we'll see you mass 15 go to go to mphormones.com bro go to mphormones.com okay okay we will we will go to mphormones all right thanks brother all right brother thank you gentlemen appreciate it guys take it easy it's the swing schedule oh my god that was a horrible schedule bro what was this you showed the study too just on uh when when men have babies too the the their levels go down yeah yeah so already having kids yeah having two kids well you got first of all there's already stress uh of having the kids uh there's a stress of the schedule then you got you know a circadian switch that is opposite to the circadian switch that is opposite to the opposite is the hardest thing so so think about this you travel to a new country with a nine hour time i've done this it's like the other side of the world yeah when i go when i fly to italy uh which is what a nine hour difference it takes me like honestly like five days to kind of feel normal that's a nine hour difference his is a flip yeah he's going for being a 6 a.m to 6 p.m to 6 p.m he's going to live on the moon he's flipping completely you know and so that's gonna kill your hormones look if you like the show come find us on instagram mind pump media we'll see you thank you for listening to this episode of mind pump media we'll see you next time on mind pump media listening to mind pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgb super bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgb super bundle includes maps anabolic maps 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