03: The Benefits Of Hiring An OBM (From The Client's Perspective) with Rita Goodroe

Welcome to this episode of the OBM Educator. This is a super special episode because I am having my first guest and I'm so excited because my guest today is one of my OBM clients to give a little bit of background from the beginning of conceptualizing the OBM Educator and what this podcast would look like. One of the things that I knew I wanted to have and I was so excited to share with everyone who would listen was to have conversations with business owners who have hired OBMs. Either have hired them in the past, currently have an OBM, something like that. And so I wanted to share their experiences, their challenges, their lessons learned, all of that to kind of give a sneak peek into the mind of a potential client for you, the listener. I knew I wanted to start with my own clients, my own OBM clients because one, they are amazing. And two, because I have three very different OBM clients. They all have different businesses. I do different things for them. And I function as an OBM in very different ways for them that I will be showcasing throughout this podcast. So I wanted to share all of this because I want to show that there are so many different possibilities to being an OBM. It's not limited to one industry or one niche. There really are endless possibilities out there. That's why I am super excited to have these business owners these guests come on and super excited for you to meet my client today. Welcome to the OBM Educator. I'm your host Amanda McVicker, a veteran OBM who serves six and seven figure entrepreneurs, as well as educate new OBMs with the skills and confidence they need to start and grow their own successful online business management business. Follow along as I share valuable insights behind the scene sneak peeks and proven strategies to help you build a better OBM business. Hi Rita, thank you so much for joining me. If you could introduce yourself, you know, talk a little bit about yourself and your business. So I'm Rita Goodrow. I am actually a professional speaker and MC. I speak on the topics of relationship building, connection, community building and sales. And I'm also a business strategist and a business consultant. And I work with small business owners to help them get more clients and make more money and do it all while living a life that they love to live and that they feel that they're in control of. Awesome. So I am your OBM. You are, you are the reason that I can do it. I do get more clients and make more money and do it while living a life that I love to live. It's because of you. And you believe I was doing like the math, we're coming up on four years of working together. No, we're not. Are we? Yeah. Wow. I'm flying. I know. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while. And so I wanted to have you as my first guest on the podcast. Yay. One, I have a business because of you. And I will talk about that in like later episodes, but referrals and things like that. But also, I think you're shifting into speaking. But when we first start working together, the business that you had was kind of what I described to people is like the ideal business when you're as an OBM, like looking for someone, like looking for someone who has private coaching, a mastermind, a group program, a course, a podcast. I had definitely wrote so my coaching business, which I still have guys. I want everybody out there. Yes. She still might as well. There's a lot of coaching. But yes, I had definitely reached a stage in my business where I had diversified my revenue streams at that point, which was when I also really needed the support that you give the most, right? Yeah. I didn't really need. I would say everything that you do. I would not have utilized you effectively. If I had been a little earlier and they gave it, once I reached that point, it was very obvious to me that I needed what you did. Yeah. And I let's jump right in because I was kind of like my first question of what led you to hiring an OBM. Because I think when we first talked, the job posting that you had out was actually for a VA, because you had VA's before. And you had had like long-term VA's. And so what was it that made you decide like actually OBM and OBM and VA because you would also hire a VA at that point too? It was actually really interesting. So I don't even know if you know this. So I had been looking for, I had VA's and I was looking for another VA and I was posting for VA. And then I got an opportunity to have an intensive with someone who helps you hire people. And so it was like a trial testing it out kind of thing. Did I want to be a test case to run through it? And I said, yeah. And it was during that that we started talking about the difference between like an OBM and a VA. And I still, I was like, I still don't think I need an OBM. I think I'm good with a VA. But that went so well. It was so interesting that I actually hired the same person to help me with my content strategy, like a workflow for my content strategy at the time like all the logistics. Where would it be stored? And how would it all, like how do I even come up with my top? Like my whole content strategy. I hired her. And it was through that that I realized the importance of like somebody who could help me with that strategy and the workflow behind it and then go and implement it. Because then she set up the Google folder. She liked set up the spreadsheet I needed. Did all of the pieces of everything that I needed to implement the strategy we just came up with. And she helped me brainstorm the strategy by like asking me these questions. And then she's like, by the way, that's like what an OBM does. And she wasn't working full time as an OBM. And then I said, yeah. But like I don't know that I need an OBM like this many hours a week or what. And she said, you can have an OBM in all different kinds of ways. And I thought, ooh. And but it was that moment where I had worked with her for a strategy and then felt the the power of having someone who understood it helped me brainstorm what I didn't know and see things. I know what questions to ask me. And then take that information and then go implement the workflow and the pieces to make it work that I knew I needed an OBM. And that's when I said, let's change the position because she said, well, if you are going to hire for an OBM, you want. And then she helped me hire for you. She helped me hire for you. And then she said, you're going to want an OBM first so they can help you hire for the VA. Brilliant. Let's do that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember it was definitely like a great system of me coming on learning your business and then seeing like what was needed in the VA position. And then we kind of like work together to bring that person on. Yep, exactly. Because like, and here's why I made that. So then I knew I needed a VA to do, I hate seeing lower level on higher level, but they were different tasks. And that would be at a lower rate. And I knew I was going to need it. But I also knew that part of the OBM role was going to be to help me manage the VA and the milestones of the VA. So I thought, and then I also knew it was going to be important for you to know my business. So it just made sense to have you do both roles kind of at first while you were learning what I needed and what support I needed. So you could help me hire and then manage the VA and make sure that all the milestones were met. So then it did make sense to only have you first and then pull out pieces of what you were doing and move those down to the VA. And then you helped create training materials and all that make that really easy too. So I didn't have to do that. So yeah. So when you like decide like, okay, yes, I'm ready for OBM. Now I'm going to start like looking for people. What is it that you were. I hyperventilated. When I said it and then I was like, oh, like I like, because that hourly, let's just be on the hourly rate of a really good OBM. It's going to be high. It doesn't have to be massive. And like I always tell people, their ways, like you don't always have to have 20 hours a month that like $60 a month, you know, an hour, like you can start their different ways, but no matter what, it was going to be different than a VA. And I was also going to have a VA. So let's just get that out of the way. The first thing I did when I made that decision was hyperventilate about money and freak out and say, there was no way I was ever going to be able to afford having an OBM and have a VA and like got over that real quickly. But anyway, go ahead. Well, were you going to. Yeah. We're like the characteristic traits and things like that that you were like looking for of like, if I could find someone who like checks these boxes. Yeah. You know, I knew it was going to be somebody who had a certain way of thinking and the ability to learn more than like something implementation wise. And what I mean by that is like for a VA, I needed someone who could get a to do list and like be able to implement the to do list. So I needed somebody who if it was going to be canvas, how we created the graphics, like I didn't really need the VA to really understand how to use canva, although it was helpful. But like she didn't have to be able to think strategically about my graphic design creation or whatever my content or anything. She just needed to either know the software that we were going to use to do the thing or have the kind of mind that could learn the software very easily to do the thing. But when it came to hiring for an OBM, I didn't even know what the strategies were going to be like I knew I wanted to have a launch. But I didn't know what all the pieces of a really good launch were going to be or I knew that I wanted to to have a content strategy, like I did when I hired that first person, but I didn't know what that really entailed. I only knew the way that I knew to think about it. So I needed somebody who could learn my business and see what I couldn't see. And so the qualities were more around the values that somebody had, the way somebody thought, like the application process and the questions I asked where to get an idea of how would they think through something. And then what was their ability to learn new software, as a learn new things, like it was great, if sure you knew active campaign or whatever, but like I just needed to know you could easily go learn active campaign. And I also wanted, I needed you to know the things that I didn't even know to ask about or think about. So it was important to me that you had some exposure to understanding what different, for example, email marketing software's were or what different invoicing software's were, or so that you would pick what was good for my business after you learned about my business. I just needed to know or that you knew the pieces and could go research what would be good for me based on my business. So like you needed to have some understanding of like how my business worked so that you knew what to ask me about different things. But then I also knew that I wanted my OBM to help me with launches, help me with email marketing, help me with content strategy, and then help me with like onboarding invoicing. So like all of those workflows and systems. It's, I think I mentioned beginning you were my first OBM client and I assumed it. I did not know it. I would never to be fair. The only reason I assumed it is because of the commerce, like what you had said once or twice, but like I would have never known it. And what I tell people or teach people is like you don't have to have all this experience to like get a client because obviously we all have to start somewhere. But I had spent my time in like the in the lead up or like when I was marketing myself to educate myself on launches and different platforms and onboarding systems and things like that. So it's like I knew all of the different things and then I could bring it to your business. So I knew how to carry the conversation, like you knew how to lead the sales call and the conversation. You knew how to connect and like what was important to me for a good fit because again, software is can be learned and certain skills can be acquired. But personality, character based treats, values like that. No, like that needs to mesh. So like right away when I was asking questions like your answer showed we have the same like kind of core values. We have the same work ethic. We have the same personality. We have the same like overall feelings of that. And you knew how to show me that you knew about my business and what I wanted to achieve in it. And that you knew about the pieces of my business and kind of like online coaching and that industry. And so that was the next piece. And then it was more like, okay, and you're asking me questions about things that I wouldn't even know like to whatever. And so you must really know what you're doing. But I just want people to see like the good fit came from someone who had the same work ethic values character that would mesh with me so we could have the conversations we needed to have. And then the second piece of that is you understood my business, how it overall works and what could help me grow. And then the software is things like that. That was extra or that I knew you had the ability to learn it. That was like the last piece of things for me not the first. Yeah. I like that. I remember doing a lot of research ahead of our sales call to learn about your business and learn about your different programs and things like that. So if you're listening and you're like wondering, how can I have a good sales call? Do research. I will say this too. Because there was a little bit of like, Kismit or whatever you want to call it that had me hire you. What I mean is I knew I wanted to move into speaking more and you had a background in conference planning and event planning and speaking. So like that was important to me that like somebody had that background or that connection or that awareness or not. It wasn't going to be why I hired somebody, but it's what made you jump out ahead of other people. So also to tell people like the more that you might have skills or whatever from other areas could really help you pinpoint your market a little more in terms of who you might stand out to and be different from like you had that in conference and event planning. I was moving into events and speaking. That made you differentiate yourself from other people that also knew all of the other things. And so like all of that together, it was a clear yet like there was no other option. I in fact, I had other interviews and I canceled them. I was like, nope. I think I did hire you on the call. I was like, let's do it. And we're ready. I don't even want to talk to other people and you were my first interview, but that's so important. I think a piece to note is what are your other background strength skills that can help you stand out to a certain industry, even if that's not your forever industry to start, you know, and that is a piece of what had me hire you. Yeah. I definitely tell people like bring in your background. You never know where it can help you. Exactly. Yeah. You understand them holistically, right? And that's what you did. You let me know you knew my business. You knew my goal. And you even asked about like, what are your goals for growing your business and where it's so that you could then connect the dots on how you could help me get there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. How would you kind of describe the working relationship between us and how was it kind of evolved over the four years? It's definitely way less formal than it was at the beginning because I know you now, but also like, it's so hands off. It's so hands off. Like it used to be, I think we were having weekly meetings and then they turned to monthly meetings. Now maybe we have a meeting every now and then like we just tap into have one right before this interview because I hadn't seen your face and talked you know what? But that's because like, you've learned my business so well that I can just tell you things with bullet points and phrases and like, you know, messages and you know exactly what I mean. And then also you just kind of know before I know that I'm going to need something like you'll be able to look at my calendar and say, so like I think there's a lot of trust. That's what I would really wrap it up in and that I don't think you're just going to start grabbing work and doing work for the sake of billing me using the hours and then saying, I've hit the max and I need to like bill more and like doing things that I probably didn't really need you to do and like didn't like I, I just trust that you're going to know if I need something and you're going to anticipate that need and you're going to take care of it. And if you do something, it's because you knew that it needed to be done or that you knew I was going to ask you anyway because I would go to do it and be like, I don't know how to do this. You just know me well enough and my business well enough that you can kind of anticipate tasks and it's quicker and easier for us to work together because you do kind of, and you can say, hey, Rita, like I noticed that I don't know. I saw this meeting on your calendar. Is this something that like, so it can be proactive and you just know the way I think. So it's just that knowledge and that trust that allows us to work together more efficiently and effectively. And now it's like so hands off that things are moving and I might not even know how to time that they're moving, but I trust that whatever you choose to do is what needs to get done. Do you know what I mean? And I mean, that definitely is something like it's evolved over the years. So what would you say? Like maybe like the first year. Yeah. I'll actually get so from the person who helped me hire people, right? She gave me tips on onboarding and things like that. And so I did this with you and it helped a lot. A lot of people hired OBM for help with content. So first I want to talk about content specifically, which will show how I thought about onboarding you and working with you in other ways and how we were able to grow to where we grew. So contents a good way to kind of give that example, which is at first, I just had you posting my content, very VA level stuff, right? And that was because you could learn then what is my content? What do I talk about? Where do I post it? That house rights, you could start thinking if there were more efficient ways, effective ways. If from your point of view, there were things that I wasn't doing. But really it was just so you could learn, right? Like this is how you get familiar with me. Just copy and pasting my content and like putting it out there, right? But then it was okay. Cool. After you had done that enough, then it was like, could you repurpose some content for me? Because now you knew my content enough and my topics enough. We had organized it a little bit and you knew where to find things and all of that that I felt like, okay, I don't know if you can write in my voice yet. We haven't been working together that long. But like you could easily probably go rep-- and I wanted to see how you did it, right? And you repurpose stuff and that went well. And then it was like, hey, like now after a while, have you copying and pasting my stuff, then repurposing my stuff, then the next level was, hey, could you write this promo post for me? Or could you just write a post about X like more promo-y, right? And it was like, yeah, I could do that. I can promo that master class right those. And then when that was really working like a well-oiled machine, it didn't take long because you already knew my voice from the other things we'd done, then I could say, hey, I'm not sick. Could you just write a post about say you can go pull from anything we've ever done before, but create a whole new post or add in your own thoughts or whatever. But could you do that and get that done for me? And I knew I could trust it to sound like me. And I share that example to say, don't be frustrated. Well, first of you're the business owner out there wondering if you should hire an OBM, phasing in your OBM. Don't expect them to be able to just immediately write in your voice. It's like, but also if you're the OBM, don't be frustrated if you're doing lower level tasks and you want to do it at the beginning because that's how we can easily learn and feel comfortable and get you to the point where not only are you going to be able to do that, be able to do it, but you're going to do it really well. And like I can tell you by the time Amanda and I got into the point where she could write content for me if I wanted her to, she was completely indispensable to me at that point. I would never be able to get rid of her. But it's kind of like, so from the OBM side, like you might feel like, but I want to do all these other things and all this to be ace, but like that's going to be the thing that allows us to like outsource the things you don't want to do. And me feel 100% comfortable in you do it and you're doing it well. And then from the business owner standpoint, don't just expect everything all at once. Like really have the system of onboarding and bringing them on. Think of it as a long term hire. And that means I need to really, I have the time. I really need to get them acclimated and do it in a way that I will be able to walk away from my business and know that it's all covered. Mm hmm. I think something else that was helpful was if you gave like a task or project or something like that, it wasn't just here. Can you do XYZ? But it was like here. Can you do XYZ because it gave me kind of a sneak peek in your reign of like why we could do these things or why we do. Yeah. Also like where when you know the why, it shows you what my ultimate goal is. And that's where you could go. Okay. I see that. But did you know that there's like a better more effective way to get to the end result? But also like you just realized where you fit into the scheme of things. I think that's all we were talking about this. I just spoke at Volvo construction equipment the other day. And I was talking to some other speakers at a dinner than I before and we were talking about the employee corporate world. And how a lot of people feel frustrated with their job because they don't know the overall purpose. They feel like there are paper pressure in the middle of things and they don't really understand because no leader will take the time to show them like where that piece fits into the overall thing. So interesting was touring the Volvo plant. Each person is only doing like maybe they're only making one little I don't know widget or something of this big machine. But like overall it creates the end result. And so when the full machine is fixed they start playing this music across the whole plant so that everybody can celebrate in the end result because they were all part of the end result. Right. Like and then everybody takes ownership of it. So not only can you see efficiency and effectiveness opportunities by knowing like, Hey, could you do this because I'm trying to do this? And you're like, Hey, actually, this isn't really going to help you do that thing or this thing can help you do it better. But also because you're going to know that it's not just this like one off task. You're going to see how it fits into the overall like purpose or vision and you're going to have more ownership over that and not just think like you're disconnected from the end result, which I think is important to. Yeah. Definitely. I love that example. I did not know that they did that. It was so cool. I didn't hear it. She's like, why is no music playing the tour guide? Why is that? Yeah. Then all of a sudden it was like music. And they're like, and the whole like kind of plant was like, yeah, like they all felt it all over that like the welding of the one widget on the thing like just ended up in like a big end result that they were all celebrating. And I think that that was so cool. I love that. Yeah. Talking on like the tasks side of things, I will be the first to admit that I have made mistakes and that things happen and stuff. And so I think that for a lot of aspiring OBMs, especially working at like that high level mistakes are like they fear that. Well, I mean, I think you really want to make sure that as a business owner, guys, that you're giving people the ability to make a mistake and the buffer to be able to make mistakes and like the grace to be able to make mistakes so that people want to like continue to have a relationship with you because people have to be able to be authentic and sometimes people make mistakes. But as the OBM as well, you just need to make sure that that you're transparent about things, right? And I will say one thing that helped me hire you. I'll give you an interview question that also helped me hire you actually a ruled out most people. When I said, what are your policies around your turnaround time and around like your communication with me and you had them, you said, well, if it's something substantive and you really need me to like make slides or like do this, like there's a 48 hour minimum turnaround. If it's like communication, there's a 24 hour turnaround. The answer that ruled most people out for me was like, oh, I'm just like available whenever like whenever you need that. Like I get that it sounds really helpful, right? Like I'm just available anytime. Like you could just message me and I can turn things around and like I'll try to get to this quickly. That all sounds great. But in my mind, I like to think of as you're not organized and I'm hiring you to help me be organized. And so I need you to have rules. Like you're helping me run a business. I need to know you run a business and I need to know that you understand like I need to be more organized. I need to be more proactive. The reason I'm hiring you is I'm not I'm doing things last minute. I'm doing things like I'm not getting it done. I'm not meeting the goals that I want. Like you need to help me get there. And so if I have to get something if I need slides and I know that I have to like get that to you with at least 48 hours for you to turn around with it. There is buffer in there for mistakes or is buffer in there for that. And at the same time, OBMs out there, you don't want to hold too hard to those either because if you are in a co-ownership situation, the business with somebody, their success is your success too. So like I just had to tell them and to the other day, here's a reality of what's happening and like I'm probably going to have to dump these slides on you really lot. But I gave her notice of that and I asked her in your ability there for you to do these like outside of the normal turn around time and do them quickly. And she's like, I'm going to prepare my schedule to be able to do that for you. And sometimes if I can't give her heads up and that she knows it's really important, she'll she'll move things around if she's able to. But if she says she can't and don't fault her for that because I've always had the beginning know in the turn around time. But I say all of that to say having those rules, having those boundaries, having those buffers is number one, not just good for you. But number two, it makes you look professional. And number three, it helps create a buffer for both parties to make mistakes. And I think that that's really important. Yeah. Boundaries, I know is said when we first started working together and I was like still trying to learn them and you were my only client, I'm like, yeah, I can't do things really quick. Like sure. Here you go. And it's never an expectation because you had from the interview set those rules or those boundaries and said, of course, if I'm able, I will try to make it like I can't guarantee it. And because of that, I always just knew that if you did it, I could never just make that the new rule that it just happened to work out. And I was always like very grateful for it. But also you set the expectation rate so that the expectation was there from the start that this is the exception, not the rule, right? And I, but again, I don't think people understand how professional that makes you sound in an interview and the opposite of like, I don't know, I don't really have days or hours that I work for people and I can just kind of do things at any time. And I can, it sounds great in theory for me to be a bet like at the end of the day, it doesn't make me have confidence in you. And so setting those boundaries on, you feel like it might turn people away, but I swear it will help draw the right kinds of businesses to you. And I have always been appreciative with you as my client and that you've always said like, hey, like could you do this thing? It's okay if you can't, right? Like I know it's like a last minute thing. It's okay if not. And if it's something super urgent, I kind of just now at this point, our relationship trusts at you. You're appealing. All right. You look at your husband, honey. I need to take the kid really, really means that she's probably going to cry on stage in like five minutes. I've got to get this to her. It's not working. I need to do it. And like I do appreciate when like there's an 11 o'clock at night thing and you're like, oh my, not that that's common. It might be before speaking again. I'm like, oh my god, I was just running through the slide that's not working. And I go on stage at night and yeah, I'm right. And you're going to be like, I will get it done or I know you will be like, I will find someone and tell them how to get it done for you. And then I'm just, okay. So you have also cultivated a good network of other people that I feel like if you really couldn't, you could turn to someone and say, hey, I'm going to tell you how to do this. Could you go do this for my client for me? You know, you will help me get it done. And then only if it really, there was an, and then at that point, it's like, it was my, on me because it was last minute. I didn't check something ahead of time. I didn't put enough buffer in it. And I'm like, at the end of the day, besides speaking stuff, like slides, and even then if I can't get done, there's a work around with an audience. Very little in the coaching world or my world. It's not like I'm a lawyer anymore that is so urgent that like there is a dire situation. If there's a mistake or something can't get done, right? Let's just be honest. It's like, I do not do life and death stuff here, right? So yeah. I think for me, like with all of my clients having like kind of the mindset of everything is fixable that, you know, if I do make a mistake or a family on something like I can drop what I'm doing and do it right then, or I can send out an email like air link or something like that and, you know, send out a new one. Yeah. I hope at OBMs too listening or people who want to be a bit like, we're talking about what I did to interview to find you Amanda. But like I think it's also important that you would be interviewing me to make sure I'm a good fit for you. And that would be a very important thing to find out like not that anyone's going to say I'm going to be a tyrant and yell at you when you mean, but like just like little questions around like how would you handle a situation where X or you know, like how would you feel if blah blah blah or it just kind of like notice their facial expressions and their tone or like how they answer to make sure that that's if that's important that you need somebody to like not like jump down your throat because there's a mistake or because you need the like whatever you just have to ask those questions right. So I think gets a two way street, the interview is a two way street. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely tell people like you are interviewing them as much as they are interviewing you and that as the business owner, I was just telling someone this this morning, as the business owner, you get to choose who you work with. Like, yeah, we do want clients, but we want the right clients. I guarantee, I mean, don't, don't give me, if you're new, you're going to take the wrong client. That's part of your journey. But at the same time, like, if it's coming from a, I need the money, I need the like, what's going to happen is you're going to end up in a worse position than you were because number one, your energy is going to be so drained. You're going to miss out on other clients and number two, you're always going to do two to three times the work. Then you're getting paid for for the kind of client that's not a good, fit client plus than the loss of energy and your personal title. Like, there's just so much, so much liability from hiring the wrong fit. You really want to interview and make sure that they're a good fit for you. And that's how it's going to be a four year relationship is it's got a mutual benefit. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So you've had some changes in your business lately, like going into some more speaking and you have been, I feel like every other week you're traveling, you've been killing it in like the speaking realm of things. That's a whole new thing for us to try to figure out navigate, right? Because like speaking does have a little more of like, oh my gosh, like, I have to or like if you're a good speaker, you're going to want to insert a couple of slides about something based on what just happened the night before. So it's really personalized. And like, so there is a little, and we haven't talked about that yet. That's something that we'll talk about, you know, eventually like that does change a little bit about turnaround times or how does that work or what, what are expectations there? But yeah, like my business model has changed, but also not all of it is. True. Like yeah. And the reason I could change guys and add in this new revenue stream in this big way is because Amanda is there running my base business for me to free up my time to grow a new revenue stream. I'm not doing all the social media and the content and this and that and coaching my clients and trying to get speaking and doing the scheduling and doing that. It's I can show up and coach my clients and then with everything else in Amanda is doing it free up the time to try to grow a new revenue arm for my business. That's where the joy of an OBM is is that you free up your time to then go grow your business and only the way you can. And then as I'm doing that, Amanda and I are fumbling around around like, I don't know what a good workflow is for that. I don't know, but we'll figure it out based on what happens. Yeah. I can pick up on like when you're focusing on the speaking, I can pick up on the client management and I can pick up on the admin side of things while you focus on the speaking. Like you might know, oh my God, I'm just traveled. I'm traveling again in five days and like and then it's kind of like, oh, well, that means Rita probably didn't have time to go look at client reports on this or Rita didn't have enough time to take care of this invoice or Rita didn't have enough time to like go and check with these people who haven't scheduled sessions. And forever, it's like, I need to do that for her. Like you just number one, you just know what those pieces are and you're also going to know when I don't have the capacity to do even the pieces I usually do. And you'll be able to say, I got that for you. Like don't worry about that. Right. Which is so helpful to at the same time. I know now that it's like, oh, we put a good workflow in for this thing. So for speaking, we'll be able to put a good workflow in and you just kind of know the way I think about things and so like it makes it easy to go. Okay, well Rita would like it if like this happened, right? Like because you know me and so it makes growing into a new area, really easy as well. Awesome. To close out what is some advice that you would give to an OBM who's looking to start with their first client? Don't overthink your ideal perfect client. Like I get it. You've heard all the trainings and watched all the videos about my target market is and my niche is in my ideal client. It looks like it feels like and I only want to do these five things and I only want it with this package and I only want like guys, the reason that you'll get your ideal clients at whatever package you want. Like there's a lot of clarity that comes from just having clients at the beginning. So at the beginning, just get clients because they will pay you money, but also you will get value back beyond just whatever your hourly rate is by going through it, like having the experience, like work it. Like there's so much value in working with a client that you're getting and it's kind of like if it's your first one, it's like, okay, I just need to work with a client to see what I like and what I don't like to see if I even like this worked right. Like this kind of client, right? Like and you will get more clear on who your ideal clients are by working with clients, but also you will have then the experience to be able to feel confident charging the rates that you most likely want to charge and like you'll know what your packages are. What you like to do and what you don't do. So you'll get more clarity on who you want to help, how you want to help them by having clients, right? So it's like the only way to actually get that clarity is to have a bunch of clients and figure it out. And then some people are like, but I only want to do it for 15. But then there's a lot of like imposter syndrome, you stuff and all about like charging the rate because you haven't really had the experience yet. So like just go get the experience. You can change your packages, change your market, change your prices, as you go, like, but what you can't do is just get your first client said any other time. Like just go get clients, having that will help you get the clarity and the confidence that you need to grow your business in the way you want it to grow. So don't get so hung up on what you want it to look like that you end up having no clients to be able to actually have a business. This is why I wanted you as the guest because you're also a business coach. And I feel like you have the business coach. Like I listen to some of your coaching calls sometimes. And I'm like, oh, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. Exactly. So like, yeah, don't overthink it, guys. Just start. Like, and again, if it's not exactly what you envision, that's fine. We can like get you there as you go. But like you can never just the only time to start is to start. Like there's no other time to get your first client and just start and get a client. Like, but if you keep waiting for everything to be perfect, you're never going to have a client. There's a lot of minds on stuff that'll come up. So just and you'll never really, you'll think you know, you'll spend all this time getting your website up and you know, all the detailer to this market for this thing, for these packages. And then as you start doing it, you're going to realize, oh, I don't really like that. Or I don't really like these things are, oh, this person is really great. And then you'll be like, man, I just spent $5,000 on this website and all these branding photos and all that don't even speak to the ultimate audience that I want. So like, just go get clients. Just go do the thing. Do it messy. Start messy is my friend Chris Krimit. So it's where the book called start messy. And it's good. And like, just start messy. And then you can make it better as you go along. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you. I had a great time. If you want to connect with Rita, you can visit her website at readamanemeduet.com or follow her on Instagram @redagoodro. All of her information will be shared in the show notes. I'll chat with you guys soon. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the OBM Educator. I hope what you heard today is helpful for you on your OBM journey. If you love today's episode, I would so appreciate you sharing it and leaving a review on your favorite podcast platform. Want to be a guest on the OBM Educator? Fill out the form in the show notes and I'll be in touch. Join us next time on the OBM Educator.