The Ben Affleck Hall of Fame and ‘Animals.’ Plus: ‘Other Mommy’ Is Jump-Scary and Silly

I'm Sean Fennessy. I'm Amanda Dobbins. And this is the Big Picture, a conversation show about animals, mommies, and Big Ben. Today on the show, Amanda and I will dig into The Weeknd's Jessica Chastain-starring horror hit Other Mommy, as well as the new film Animals, which premiered on the Netflix streaming service over the weekend. Animals is the latest directorial effort from Amanda's spirit animal, Ben Affleck. Nice way of putting it. And yet we have never built a hall of fame for the actor, writer, director, former Batman, Ben Affleck. So we will do that very thing today on the show as well. But first, some movie news right after this. Coca-Cola. For the big. For the small. The short. And the tall. Peacemaker. Risk takers. For the optimist. Pessimist. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you. Okay, Amanda. I transport you back to 1985. Yeah. You are doing what? I'm learning to walk. Maybe if you're lucky. Maybe? I think at that point. Okay. 1985, this is an important year at the cinema next year because Miami Vice 85 is officially happening. We've seen some early images from this film. It's going to star Michael B. Jordan as Tubbs and Austin Butler as Crockett. How many episodes of the television show Miami Vice have you ever seen? I was going to say, who is who? Like, that's assuming that I know the names. Yes. I don't. Really? So you've not seen Miami Vice before? I have seen the Michael Mann film. Okay. And I'm sure I've seen an episode or two, you know, in the orbit of my father. But it's the same way I've like, quote unquote, seen episodes of Columbo, you know, which is just, it was on. Okay. And my dad is like, hey, what's up? And I was not really paying attention. Did you happen to see, thank you for bringing up Columbo. Yeah. Andrew Garfield on Good Hangs, Peter Falk. Incredible. What the fuck? It was so, so good. Obviously, he's the goat, but you have a Peter Falk in your bag. That was amazing. Anyhow, I love Columbo. Miami Vice, not a huge show for me, but definitely something I watched growing up a little bit as well. This new movie is not related to the Michael Mann film, although it is clearly inspired very much by the series that Michael Mann helmed, directed by Joseph Kaczynski, coming off of Top Gun Maverick and F1, written by Dan Gilroy. Yes. Tony Gilroy's brother, the writer of a number of films. You know, obviously, this is. Very interesting to Chris Ryan. I was just going to say. For you, how do you feel about this? We need to phone a friend segment. It's just like phone a CR. I'm following his lead. There's been this wave of news connected to his soul. Right? So, and he hasn't been on the show in a minute. Maybe next time he comes back, we'll get a full download from him. We tried to recruit him, but for this. Oh, for today's episode. For today, yeah. He's about to be traveling. So, will you see it? Will you see the movie? Yeah, of course. I mean, I like these guys. Michael B. Jordan, Austin Butler. Yes. Joseph Kaczynski. I've seen most of his work. Huge fan. So, like, Dan Gilroy can have fun and write a fun script. And if this is a fun time at the movies with movie stars, I, you know, I accept. Yeah, it's IP, but like soft IP. It's just kind of an excuse to put guns in these guys' hands, I think. And I'm down with that. Box office. Now, we'll get to Other Mommy momentarily. It won the weekend with $28 million, which is not terribly surprising given how well that movie was marketed. The Social Reckoning earned $5.5 million. Yeah, no bueno. That's not, that's really bad. That's really bad. That's a, that is bomb status. That's, what happened, do you think? I don't know. Everyone wrote it off. I mean, I suppose a theatrical-only sequel to The Social Network that is led by Aaron Sorkin, Mikey Madison, and Jeremy Allen White, who I wanted to call Jonathan Anderson because the initials are the same. You have one track mind these days. I do. Yeah. Um, you know, it was marketed at a certain group of people. It was not going to be a hundred million dollar opener. Nor was The Social Network. No, but the original film did well at the box office. Yeah, but then everybody who was interested in it saw a trailer, read a review, and was like, no, no, no, fool me twice. That was going to be my question was, um, you know, it's related to Digger as well, because obviously Digger pretty significantly underperformed. And despite there being this huge kind of groundswell of emotional online support for Digger, the Digger movement, um, it didn't. It didn't do better in its second week either. And so I'm kind of, I'm thinking a little bit about what is the impact of criticism and word of mouth and for movies like this. And your face being on phones saying, I did not think this worked. Uh, well, I guess I wasn't thinking so specifically about myself, but I guess I am a part of the problem in that case. You know, the, the, the social reckoning wasn't good. I mean, it didn't work. And so I wonder, was it depressed, the audience depressed because it was clear that the film wasn't working or was it just that there was no audience for a movie like this regardless? I think it's a smaller audience to start with. And that's an audience that also reads reviews and thinks about the quality of things and is not, and if a movie is bad, they're not going to check it out or they're going to wait and watch it at home like an episode of the morning show, which it is. I think that's right. I mean, the social network made $225 million back in 2010 and did very, very well, obviously, was an awards contender and helmed by a very successful commercial filmmaker and Fincher at that time. But, uh, $5.5 million. I mean, I think it just kind of puts truth to what we felt like has been happening with Sorkin too, which is his last two movies were streaming only, um, being the Ricardos being on Amazon prime and trial of Chicago seven being on Netflix. Molly's game was nine years ago and it only made $58 million back then. Right. And that was about celebrities paying, playing poker. That's right. There was a kind of built in, you know, promotional tool. And so, I mean, Sorkin is just not a box office draw and he's not really much of a filmmaker. So what do you do next? If you're Aaron Sorkin, what do you think? Make a TV show? Probably the idea. Yeah. And this would have been an interesting miniseries, which we discussed, right? That there at least would have been more, it would have been more coherent to try to tackle so many different things in one movie. And I don't, I don't want to push our filmmakers towards television, but Aaron Sorkin comes from TV. He does. And he was quite good at it. Yeah. And we. We still reference the TV that he made along with the scripts that he wrote in the 90s far more than any of his directorial work. I also feel like he was so ahead of the curve in the 30 minute dramedy zone with Sports Night, you know, that, you know, there had obviously been, you know, some TV creators like Norman Lear in the 70s who were making 30 minute dramedy style shows, but that's a hard thing to do. And they're more common now making shows like that. I would love to see him take a crack at something like that instead of 82 minute newsroom episodes. Why can't we just bring back Sports Night? I would love that. I think that'd be great. And do it in 2026. It'd be amazing. Honestly, it'd be really smart because it would mirror the careers of many of the men and women for whom that show is based on. Yeah. So the Keith Olbermanns, the Dan Patrick's, the Rich Eisen's, like all of those guys are still sportscasters in our lives. Rich Eisen is now back at ESPN after all these years. So that would be interesting. Sports Night reboot. Wow. Listen, I want, I want the best for everyone, including Josh Charles, who's now like the good doctor. The new doctor, the local doctor. What's the doctor? You guys have seen these commercials on football. This is a television show? Yes. Josh Charles is leading a network television series where he's a doctor. Best Medicine. Best Medicine. Okay. What is that? Is that an aphorism? He is Dr. Martin Best. Yeah. See, this is what I'm saying. Help the guy out. That's because his last name is Best. Aaron Sorkin, we need you. And so does Josh Charles in the television format. Okay. That's just not very creative. Well, listen, you don't watch these commercials during football? That would be like if that show was about me and it was called Fantasy Medicine. Yeah, right. Just because your last name is Best. All right. Is Best Medicine the name of his practice, do we think? No, I think like the best medicine is something is a saying. I don't, but I don't know. I don't know how to finish the sentence. Listen, this is on like CBS or some shit. Like, what do you want me to tell you? It's a Skydance project. David Ellison, CBS. I don't know. What network is it on? I shouldn't. Blaspheme. I'll have to look. Yeah. Okay. That's the medicine. That made my day. Okay. Okay. Sorkin back to TV. Got it. Yeah. Good job by you. Thank you. Heart of the Beast, Resident Evil, and Primetime. Doing pretty well. So. Yeah. I think it's, I'm kind of working my way through the social reckoning thing doing so poorly because Heart of the Beast shows that there's still like an older audience for a certain kind of a movie. Primetime is showing there's a younger audience for a certain kind of movie. It was interesting to watch those movies go up against each other. You know, Heart of the Beast cost a lot of money, but it's going to end up making like over a hundred million dollars. Probably worldwide. Primetime is going to make 75 million dollars, maybe a hundred million dollars worldwide. Those movies do really well. Resident Evil, we know that's IP done well and horror. All that stuff is explicable to us, right? Yes. But to me, the lesson is if you're not going to be like a 800 million billion dollar IP thing, then you have to find your exact audience. You have to know what it is and you also have to make a movie good enough that they'll go. Yeah. Heart of the Beast, the dog, they had the dog audience. Primetime is a great movie and has found its young people audience, I think the A24 audience of it all. They've marketed that very well. Robert Pattinson has been very involved um i think resident evil you know and the zach crager identified the up-and-coming auteur so audience and built into that social reckoning i guess knew its audience but unfortunately its audience is just watching msnbc at home i think you're right so and and once again its audience heard that it was quite poor so you know sometimes things are just not good and so they don't work i want to ask you one last thing about digger yeah so not specifically about the movie digger but since it's not doing well it obviously has a strong vocal advocacy and we've seen this i have participated in this with other movies over the years sure that have not done as well but that have been very audacious films babylon high forever obviously that's something that i will always live with um but this is now an interesting trend in cinephilia where a big film that takes a lot of chances and swings that typically has a very big budget that usually features stars but Hope doesn't perform well at the box office and then you get this enormous noisy blowback from a small but in theory powerful contingent of people i didn't think of i couldn't think of a too many other examples of it but there have been three or four over the last 10 years is this just that we like we like to get behind something that feels like the underdog even if it's the overdog well i think it's more evidence of that cinephilia and movies are back in a specific way and that people got to post about something you know that movies kind of have their own stand hive at this point specific just to movies which is great yeah and people and the industry is finding different ways to make money off of that unless you're aaron sorkin and the social reckoning but i think that it's just part of online stand culture is that then you gotta you gotta find bits you gotta find ways to post you know we have some great posters on our team the team being the the cinephile team uh we you and i do what we can absolutely post as well i've been reducing my posting but yes well i'm not posting i'm not part of digger hide right you know my answer to what i think of it is still i don't know like i've been talking a lot about it and i don't really know uh i haven't still haven't seen it a second time and i will um you know i i don't i'm not sure if i'm gonna be moved off of what my position on the movie was but i it's actually been fun to observe this not being a part of it with babylon it was kind of like you put your blinders on and you're just like this moved me sometimes it's hard to put to words why it moved me and once you start pushing someone to start explaining why something is special which is our entire jobs the themes can unravel a little bit um but i i do appreciate that people really love the movie yeah the only other thing i would say about digger you noted on our episode that the reviews were quite vicious and then it really did feel like a critical generation was just coming for you to read you yes uh and had been almost waiting for this moment and you know you and i are not historical big and rich people but it did it does feel like when a movie is not as disastrous as the reviews lead it to believe then people also jump in and are like wait well you know which is just the well actually brain of the internet applied to old school too yeah that was true 60 years ago with the bosley crowdlers of the world writing reviews of films for young people and him not getting them and then kind of rejecting the old guard of criticism yeah so it's interesting that something like that could happen now now it happening with one of the most decorated filmmakers and the biggest movie star is also complicates this in an interesting way but it just becoming this cause celeb has been fascinating to me um and i do think that in addition to obviously the fans of the movie in the world there are a lot of filmmakers and actors who really like the movie or who are at least publicly supporting the movie which i think supports my like watch the boomerang award season on this movie i do i really do because i think no one's seen it really but the people who are watching the movie are the people who are going to bat for it the only people who are not going to bat for it are critics other people are kind of going to bat for it yeah so of the people who have seen it right which is this very this movie's made less than 35 million dollars it's a it's doing really poorly at the box office i think that's the other thing which is you're right there may be more people and especially academy voters and awards voters who see it and think oh this was better than i expected and there may also be a lot of people who watch it at home on their screening site and turn it off after 25 minutes definitely like that but i think it's a really good movie and i think it's i'm quite bored definitely well or annoyed like we were discussing on the episode yeah no it's possible i'm i'm i'm fascinated to see how it all shakes out and we shall cover it on the show a couple of trailers for us over the weekend in front of other mommy we got the trailer for the movie river which i mentioned earlier on the show that premiered at the toronto film festival which adam name incited in our episode and then um was picked up it was originally going to be an ifc movie and then blumhouse bought it from ifc they were going to put it on shutter and then i guess paid a premium and now that movie's coming out january 15th 2027 uh jane levy jessica roth slasher on a river i made you watch the trailer any thoughts do we know which river is the river named no i don't know okay i'm just curious geographically i'd like to know how much they engage with the you know local geography and topography is it the nile can we get a fact check on that i mean i you know death on the nile one of my favorite movies that's right yeah the version not whatever kind of friend i did the bigger the bigger headline after river is exorcist martyrs which is the will now be the fifth exorcist film the a quick follow-up to exorcist believer which i don't think you ever got a chance to see no should i put that on my list i would keep things that way okay uh that movie came out a few years ago david gordon green after rebooting halloween for blumhouse he was attempting to reboot exorcist which i was reminded recently blumhouse paid 400 million dollars for the rights to make exorcist movies they made believer and they made exorcist it bombed terribly and was awful so now they're back in the game very quickly mike flanagan is hired to make exorcist martyrs which i think will effectively pretend like believer didn't happen okay this new movie stars scarlett johansson that's also how i cope with tragedy uh by pretend deleting things from your mind yeah i know it's amazing uh scar joe plays a homicide detective who witnesses the execution of a famous serial killer played by john leguizamo in this movie but the killings are not the same as the killings of john leguizamo in this movie but the killings are not the same as the killings of john leguizamo in this movie but the killings are not continue after he dies who do you think's doing that satan could be could be could be yeah so i'm this is this is an observational spoiler from watching a trailer i'm just going to put this out there people who've paid close attention already know this yeah but if you don't want to know anything else about exorcist martyrs you could turn it off or not watch the trailer uh this seems like it's a direct sequel to exorcist 3 exorcist 3 one of the most underrated horror movies of all time occasionally chris ryan and i will discuss it uh that film star george c scott as a homicide detective i think scar joe was playing his daughter interesting what makes you say that well you can see the name kinderman on her okay uniform yeah that was the name of george c scott's character in the movie george c scott's wig as bad as hers is in this trailer he's not wearing a wig in that film okay that you know of that's true yeah but he has like white hair that is thinning so i'm not sure that that would make a ton of sense for him um i'm looking forward to this mike flanagan did this once before with doctor sleep he made a sequel to a beloved horror classic and i liked it as i mentioned last week on the show so will you see this sure okay yeah we um scarlett johansson was not at the can premiere of paper tiger because she was filming this movie so i just gotta i gotta square the circle on that one remember interesting and then they facetimed her that's right and then she didn't pick up yeah that was tough heartbreaking i thought that was a good use of ovation time what else are you supposed to do trying to call her yeah yeah it was a good bit next time i am fed it at can yes i will call you okay i promise and i just try to pick up a couple more quick things sadie sink to star in an adaptation of emma klein's the guest did you read the guest i did i haven't read the new emma klein yet but i read and liked the guest i think this is great casting i lorian skifaria is going to direct which is a great assignment is this her first feature since hustlers i think it is maybe she's done a lot of tv in the intervening time um i'm very pro seems great yeah i'm excited about that too um netflix and and eric seen france are adapting gary paulson's book hatchet which we were reminded of in 1980s this was very classic big in the elementary schools yeah and like and the scholastic book fair exactly that's what i remember funny you should say that my daughter has her book fair today today's the scholastic book fair that's really funny i got a photo already of her shopping for a book oh my that i lived for those book fairs it's so fun shopping and books it's like wow um so this is cool i obviously i love seeing france and i think it's a good idea to do that probably hard for him to get theatrical movies made you know what was his last film was not roof man roof man thank you uh which you liked i did like roof man i liked the kirsten dunst was in it okay good enough last note of news yeah the beatles films now we said this when the news was originally broken but then we got confused we've been doing bits about the beatles movies for what feels like five years but it turns out that these movies which are coming out in april 2028 will come out sequentially over consecutive weeks in the month so there will be four movies about each movie about a different member of the beatles so i guess it'll be like april 4th april 11th april 18th april 25th yeah did you do you know that those are the fridays or you just i'm just i'm just guessing yeah i'm sorry i mean we do have the technology available well i'm speaking right now so it's a little hard to google and speak but uh i think we can find the proper dates okay and we'll correct the record yeah you can you can use i mean just saying because then people will need to plan their parties and then they'll be able to do it so i'm just saying because then people need to plan their parties for like the four last big picture episodes that's right yeah well and then the x-men extravaganza right right that would be like the like the christmas special you know the x-men that's right We're going to do that episode on the Queen Mary, and then we're going to take off. We're just out to sea forever. Four movies in four weekends. This was my first thought about this. Yes. Do people have time for this? Like, we have time, obviously. I have time. But, like, do even common movie fans have 14 hours in a month to devote to going to see these films in theaters? Well, all of the loyalty programs suggest to me that people have time for a lot of tickets. The films will also stay in theaters. So, whatever film is number one. And the order has not been released. But right now, I think you've got to do Paul, George, Ringo, John. That's just where I am. Paul, George, Ringo, John. I think that's great. Thank you. I think that's brilliant. So, Paul will still be in theaters when Ringo hits. And John. John hits. So, you could, theoretically, just wait. Who gets pulled from theaters first? George, sadly. No, Ringo. Listen. Come on, George. George is the best. But George is. Listen. Ringo's going. No shot. Ringo's still alive. He's still with us. God bless him. Ringo's going out first. Okay. The Ringo movie? There's a whole movie about Ringo? I love Ringo. What are we doing? Think about it chronologically. Oh, there's more story to tell? I think Ringo is when they break up. And it's just like Ringo there being like, what's happening? Oh, he's smart. Yeah. I'm so sad. And I'm really good at drumming. No, he was a binding force during the breakups. Well, then he's trying to keep it together. Because he was the link between Paul and George. And he can't. Yeah. And that's the conflict of the movie. So, then people will want to go see it. Why aren't we producers on this? No, you're so smart. That's such a smart observation that you have to have the most incident in Ringo. Like, there has to be the most dramatic moments. And then John can be more of an existential exploration given that his life was cut so short. Here's why we're not producers on this. Because we've seen all the pictures. Of the wigs. And have said so many negative things. That we haven't really. I like can't. You've been doing it privately. I don't really do that because. My Instagram's not private. It's very public. Oh, yeah. You have been doing that publicly. I haven't been doing that publicly. Because behind the scenes photos are just not to be trusted. I just don't. That's true. I don't judge movies based on somebody taking a photo 80 feet away of a person in makeup. Like, we have post-production in films for a reason. I am concerned about the wigs. Sure. I mean, that is a problem that can be applied to almost every film that I see. But, yeah. So, that makes me nervous. Okay. But, I'm rooting for those guys. Just the actual structure of four films over four weekends. I think for any hardcore movie fan or for any hardcore Beatles fan, logical. Yeah. For regular people? I don't know. Maybe it's what gets them back. It's a gambit. It's a real gambit. Maybe they just pick one movie, you know? What do you think will be the highest grossing, John? No, Paul. The first one. Just from a basic number? From a person's perspective. This is just a delicious thing that is happening. Yeah. I just love something that is just completely new like this. Like, we've just never seen. Obviously, it's the Beatles. We're obsessed. For my brain, I'm like, this is so exciting. Key check in the booth. Do you care? I do care. Lucas? Yeah, I'm very interested. Okay. Okay, good. Do you care about the Beatles? Moderately. I do care about the Beatles. Okay. Well, you know, you guys are the future and we're proud of you. Well, speaking of the future, it's time to go to Other Mommy. All right. All right. This is the new film from Rob Savage. It's based on Incidents Around the House by Josh Mallerman. Did you read Incidents Around the House? No. Did you know that this was based on a novel? I did when I opened your outline. Okay. So you didn't. No. Did you watch the credits? No, I left. He discussed. This film stars Jessica Chastain, J.D. Ploss, Dyken Lachman, Arian Moyad, and Karen Allen. The story of Other Mommy is. Bella, an eight-year-old girl living in a home with marital problems, confronts a sinister entity that comes out of her closet. The presence, whom she calls Other Mommy, becomes increasingly threatening to her and her family. Now, I'm getting a vibe. Yeah. That maybe you were not a fan of Other Mommy. What a fucking waste. What a waste of a title, a premise, a marketing campaign, a cast, and my attention. We could have done so much more. And I would have done so much more. I was really bored and disappointed after the first 15 minutes of this film. I liked it. I know. I know. I don't know that I loved it, but I liked it. And I think this is somewhat similar to the Digger situation where I started seeing reviews because the film was not screened for critics, which is usually a terrible sign. Yeah. And there were some early reviews on Thursday morning before I had a chance to see it that were just like, woof, this is a real dog baby. What happened here? And then I actually thought it was kind of visually inventive for a horror film. I thought narratively not coherent really at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't really have a huge problem with that with horror movies if I can be a little bit swept away by it. And I was kind of a little bit swept away by it. Now, obviously, I love Jessica Chastain. She gets to do a lot in this movie. Yeah, and that's fun. Yeah. She seems to be having a little bit of fun. I do think that the movie gets kind of trapped between two conceits. One conceit is your classic, there is a demon haunting our family. It is a kind of phantasmagoric figure. And so we can create some kind of logic around why we're being haunted. Is there some historical figure in the house? Is it something related to an incident in the family? And then there's the PTSD trauma explanation in a horror film. And we've been going through this cycle over the last 10 years of trying to, being more PTSD trauma and a little bit less like, you know, you move the headstones, but you forgot to move the bodies in Poltergeist. Right. And when the movie was in the Poltergeist vein, and I thought of Poltergeist a lot, while watching this movie, because it's similarly a movie about a young girl being tormented by a demon. I was really digging it. And then it does, I pivot into a shameful conclusion of just like emotional explanation. Yeah. You know, like exposition as clarification. But also explanation that makes no sense. And brings in complications that have nothing to do with the premise. Like there is, there's a fairly tidy and interesting, conclusion to this that I still would have been lukewarm to bad on the movie because it was not visually interesting to me. I mean, you know, I think it's sort of the reverse of when you watch a bad rom-com, but it doesn't, and versus when I watch a bad rom-com and I see certain things that it does genre-wise or it hits certain notes for me, then I'm like, well, this was poorly, cheaply and poorly made and preposterous, but I enjoyed X, Y, Z. Yeah. Yeah. I think you watch this and you're like, well, this is cheaply and poorly made, but, or maybe not poorly made, but it, it hits. To me, it's the, it's kind of the inverse where like, I felt like the story didn't really work, but the visual components of it did work to me. Now, I think some people would be annoyed by it, but I've been citing the movie Smile a lot in the last few years because I think Smile is this quietly very influential movie about the way that horror movies are cut, the way that the sound design is set up, where they're very like abrasive and you get these kind of like portal flashing cuts where it is opening and when it opens a new perspective, you're seeing something totally different. This movie, the characters are almost like jumping from place to place in these really time-cutting ways, but there are two segments in particular. There's one during a party that Chastain and Duplass' characters are throwing where the eight-year-old girl has a babysitter at the party. Right. Even though it's a party in their house. In their house. Which doesn't make any sense. And then also, they're having a seventh anniversary party, which no one has a seventh anniversary party. Didn't understand that really. Please continue. In that sequence in particular. When other mommy starts making herself known, the balloon sequence I thought was incredible with like flipping to the ceiling. And some of that's, I just thought that there was some visual imagination in this movie that was really cool. I've seen some people suggest that this stuff was done with AI, but I don't think that that's true. I think it was actual production design and typical VFX. But, and then secondarily, the ball pit, which I thought worked really well. The ball pit at the, I don't know, was it a McDonald's or wherever they were, and then getting lost in the ball pit. And then the ball pit becoming this place of like terror for both a parent and for a young child. Those two sequences, I thought were great. And so maybe I'm, maybe I'm blind or something, but I thought they were very effective. I guess they were fine. I thought all the, all the CGI and the, like the demon horror gore just looked cheap and bad. A little fake. Yeah. And so that left me less willing to kind of go on the flights of fancy and also because so much. Of the rest of the film is kind of done on a shoestring. Then it made me wonder what was intentional versus what are just errors. And there's been one that's been noted in a lot of places, which is that the cake is one flavor at the party. And I remember that it was chocolate with white icing because I was really hungry and I was like, I want some cake. And then it's yellow when they get back. Now, is that supposed to be some sort of, and then, and then people. Well, shared some other things about where knives are placed and all sorts of issues that just, it doesn't really seem like the shots match continuity errors. Yes. Yes. So, but is that supposed to be sort of, is that an intentional of a, the camera's moving and you don't know where you are or are they just not paying attention? If you can't tell always, then that, that is an indication to me that for all the visual flights of fancy, this is just kind of. Being sewn together. Yeah. I mean, I think it's probably a movie that had reshoots as most movies like this. do it also is definitely has a cheaper budget it's 18 million dollars um i just you know the the middle segment is just boring ghostbusters and i didn't think it was funny when they go to karen allen's house yeah and listen respect to karen allen forever but i was really bored severance right i don't watch severance i didn't know who that lady was and i it was very much like where'd they find this person yeah uh so yeah yeah on tv and she's been around for a while um yeah i mean to me it was just it's just a romp like it's not it's not a deep and meaningful movie i thought it was i didn't have fun i thought it was so boring okay um and i do also think other mommy is such a good idea well here's one of the big challenges of this movie you know there's a story that came out that james wan really wanted to name the movie other mother and they didn't name the movie other mother the reason they didn't do that i presume is because the movie coralline exists and that's the premise of coralline is that there's a movie that's called other mother another mother on the other side of the portal that coralline has to engage with and it seems like she's really appealing and loving and wants to bring her into our world but she's a demon yeah and so you know this movie kind of exists already sure but this could i mean the other problem with this movie is that if this were actually a movie about jessica chastain and her character because the first 10 minutes i was like oh this is about a mom who's not like being a quote traditional like good mom and so now she's being haunted by a demon right and that's interesting but this movie isn't called mommy well but no but then there is another mommy and the idea of the other listen i encounter other mommies all the time the other mommies that like you know know how to sew halloween costumes and the other mommies that are home for lunch and meanwhile the real mommy in this movie does actually drink a negroni while facing down the demon at home so i was like oh there's something here that's useful and you should read the story i'd be curious to know and then and then it's like well you're somebody else's or something you're somebody else's or something you're somebody else's or something you're somebody no well what what is this reveal uh what is this the reveal and who cares about the dad the spoiler is that i mean that is her daughter but that she was that she was not necessarily the most willing parent um and that the father was not in the picture but jay duplass stepped up and he wanted to be the he wanted to be the not the other father he wanted to be the real daddy you know and that's going to be the sequel that i'm working on okay real daddy yeah great and it's for all the real yeah who who are home for lunch you know and who do so the halloween costumes we don't have enough movies about those people right now yeah the number of movies about those people in proportion to the number of real daddies well you know maybe more women should get out there and make more horror films okay you know that's my encouragement to you uh this is real like you see five horror movies a year and i see a hundred yes but and that's well so that's also where the the rom-com thing and and a little bit the next movie we're going to talk about as well which is like you are looking for a new movie and you're looking for a new movie and you're looking for a new movie for something different from this and also when it hits certain genre conventions for you as a fan of these things you are you respond to them right and when i see them they don't respond to the genre conventions and the other stuff makes no sense and so i'm out but i was really really bored like very bored okay good to know um america was not bored america was in another although i think it did get a d plus yeah i was gonna say like my also my theater was silent uh i guess i don't really remember what do you expect it to be you know at least screaming at the top of your lungs no or laughing at something or just being like whoa or being surprised by a jump scare or something you know like normally you hear something yeah i think um this is interesting i obsession and to a lesser extent backrooms has like distorted the market here yeah on what people think this genre is i know but this is like also it's like very annoying i would just say to all of the people who have been cinephilia like horror fans or like i liked it back when i was on vinyl and now you guys saw obsession it is kind of like if you want obsession to be the story and you want all of the attention and have it be like wow i don't care what a huge market it is then like now we go see horror movies and yeah that's that's that's your problem not my problem because i still get to enjoy the movie yeah you're the one who's watching the movie but i am just a little bit of like the this is what happens when something goes mainstream which it is a little bit and like or what great big business okay well now we're going to take it seriously and be like this is boring now but i mean with respect you're totally wrong i mean this is the story of horror forever is that it is completely misunderstood by people who don't follow it closely and so you get mainstream critics shitting on it and then you cut back to 60 years later and you look at the reviews of movies that are now considered classics because people didn't understand the genre so i hear what you're saying i'm not saying other mommy will be a classic 60 years from now but i'm not saying other mommy will be a classic 60 years from now but i'm not saying other mommy will be a i don't think horror fans are like thank god obsession was a huge hit so that our genre i mean it is funny because everyone all of the horror people were like i liked it but are we sure it's this good you could feel it as soon as obsession right right containment yeah and people who are not horror people are like oh wow i really liked this yeah yeah and everyone else like well it's like pretty standard and it has like some you know ingenious scenes and yada yada but this this sense of it breaking it going on and it's like oh my god i'm not sure what's going on with outside of your you know your little world was already like you can feel the discomfort yeah maybe i think so i mean because when i was like oh wow i really liked obsession everyone you know was like all of the horror people like yeah i guess so sure yeah i don't know i liked it i was very positive about it i think i do think that you're right that the horror crowd in general is very territorial yeah um as our most like very genre tightly focused people who are like i only really like these kinds of movies and i'm like yeah i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't movies i think it's more the other mommy thing is more like this is kind of bog standard yeah you know blumhouse original and some of them are way worse and some of them are way better but most of them are kind of in this place yeah and so it is funny that like i think part of the challenges is that this movie was so unmarketed and that that trailer was attached to the odyssey right and so that everybody knew about this movie most people don't know about any movies but when a movie makes two billion dollars everybody's like oh yeah i saw that trailer like i am actually aware of this title it is a good title and poster and like they they found something that again like breaks containment yeah and so when it breaks the genre thing this is what i'm talking about of the rom-com thing of like for the most part i think the people who read and watch all of the streaming things really liked love hypothesis and really and like verity i think the colleen hoover fans were mad because it didn't meet their you know it kind of betwixt in between but most people who consume all this stuff think very differently about it than we do like kind of jumping in so i just you know that's all and i was just like well this is kind of empirically boring i'll go with you 100 on love hypothesis verity is trash verity is not good i would just i did remember over the weekend that they have josh hartnett and the jesus and mary change shirt and that's really funny sure there's like lots of funny stuff about it yeah i don't i don't know a lot of people that are writing for verity i do understand i do understand people writing for love but i'm just like i do think that there are people who watch it and what it does in certain capacities in the genre like honestly and like how shiny dakota johnson's hair is in the t-shirt selection of josh hartnett could not give a fuck well i know but like that's why i'm like i don't give a fuck about the balloons you know like i watch it and i was like okay cool and this doesn't make any sense so i there there is a difference yeah depending on how like deep you are within the genre i get what you're fighting for i'm not fighting for anything i'm just pointing out the inconsistencies yeah okay okay if you had maybe mounted a stronger defense of verity i might have been able to roll with you on that i just like verity is fair and i think i actually should read the book that other mommy is based on because one of the challenges i think with verity was it seemed like it was extremely loyal to the material faithful to the material yeah and the material is so good and i think it's really good and i think it's really good and i think it's really bad i mean i've never seen four colleen hoover movies they're fucking bad like the the plotting is terrible in those movies so and you know what maybe this is unfair or like an imbalanced way of imagining it but horror movie plotting is kind of secondary right in a way that like in erotic thrillers for example like the plotting does kind of matter so i guess maybe that's a complete double standard i maybe i'm too close to it i think it might be and then when i think also that you're not giving one of those movies that you're not giving one of those movies that you're not giving one genre the like the credit for the filmmaking accomplishment and choices that it does make and like because i i do think like verity looks much much better than all the colleen hoover movies right it also costs twice as much money well sure that but like that also like that has like real stars in it no but that also matters that is those are that's actually part of making a movie that matters in terms of filmmaking just spending more money uh spending money on the right things yeah i guess so i to me that this is an interesting question because yeah dialectic because like verity looking good means nothing to me like it is like this deeply unengaging right and the balloon sequence in this movie means literally nothing to me i was like i do not care about this i am bored okay so i mean and that that is really just someone watching different versions of painting a visual tableau and responding to them yeah so okay i would just point it out because i do think that there is like starting to be a little bit of we respond one way to one type of filmmaking and one way to another and i think that's a really good point one way to another. - Well. - That's all. - Yeah. - And I like, frankly, don't think both are very good yeah okay just pointing it out okay I think you sometimes I'll let it sit I'll let it sit I won't I won't I won't push it because I think that there is a slight difference between something that is low and low on purpose and something that is aspiring to higher and failing I mean I think that that was aspiring to high low on purpose sure same I mean same difference yeah and in like some ways it worked and in some ways it didn't um did Verity work at all I didn't have a bad time okay okay I was I was like more engaged with Verity than I was with other sure but this that that's a genre that you don't care about I do care about the genre of Verity Verity is a Hitchcock movie I mean it's like that's what it's trying it's working in a tradition I love sort of until it's not because it's the Colin Hoover is not in any way Hitchcock related right but the tone of this story is not it isn't a rom-com where it's like okay you might say well that isn't my or a pure romance specifically that's the one genre yeah I'm not really this isn't really my thing um but a Hitchcock movie I agree with great stars agree though I think that other mommy is like it's J Duplass you know it's not it's it's not J Duplass was fine in this movie I like J Duplass listen Datto Innocent oh Datto I know oh yeah that's the other thing you know father of a daughter movie you know you gotta see that's what I'm saying okay speaking of fathers let's talk about your father yeah well let's talk about animals yeah should we have this same exact discussion all over again well I I do think that they're they're like well paired in that this is like a very poorly made movie that I was entertained by and I was way less bored in in animals than I was in other mommy and that has something to do with it has what I'm interested in as opposed to what I'm not interested in this case Ben Affleck making a movie about the concept of J Duplass I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't with Ben Affleck? Sure. We'll get into that. This movie is directed by Ben Affleck. It stars Ben Affleck. It also stars Kerry Washington, Gillian Anderson, Adriana Paz, Steven Yeun. The story of Animals, which is streaming now on Netflix, is when the son of Los Angeles mayoral candidate Mark Kimball is kidnapped. He and his wife have a few hours to come up with the ransom payment. With most of their money spent on his political campaign, normal, they have to get their hands dirty and expose a side of their lives they never intended to see the light of day. So, setting the scene here, this is in fact more or less the second remake of Akira Kurosawa's High and Low that we have received in the last 12 months. Last year, Spike Lee released one called Highest to Lowest starring Denzel Washington. This film is not a direct remake. It's not, doesn't say, this isn't an adapted screenplay. It doesn't even say inspired by in the credits. I read, I don't know if this is true, that Ben Affleck has not seen High and Low. Did he say that? That seems. I read that somewhere. If I'm misreporting that, I apologize. Ben Affleck, a real cinephile, I would encourage him to watch the film. It's definitely worth your time. Sure. So, what did you think of the movie? It's really, really not good. It's a not good movie that is fun to watch and we're, again, an episode of TV show and specifically an episode of Scandal, which also starred Kerry Washington dealing with political scandals and also personal scandals while someone, while someone dressed primarily in white comes around to try to fix things. I would have enjoyed it. I watched almost every episode of Scandal. You know, I like it. And, but the actual filmmaking is really, really quite depressing. And I, just a lot, a lot of drone shots, a lot of, you know, slick inserts to cover the fact that they don't know how to tell the story and it's, the acting besides Ben Affleck has its highs and lows, forgive me. So, I, I, it's not, it's not, it's not good. It's not, it's not very good. I didn't, but I did, like, I rewatched it this morning and I was just, anytime Ben's on screen, I'm just kind of leaning in, you know? So I'm not going to turn down Ben Affleck. Okay. And it is, the most interesting it is, is when it is about, when it is very thinly veiled text about Ben Affleck, the public persona and Ben Affleck in a marriage or Ben Affleck, he's running for mayor in this case. But the commercial that opens, the mayoral commercial that opens the movie is pretty funny and pretty knowing about Ben and about LA. We are also in the middle of a mayoral election, so good timing wise. It's sort of well-timed, yeah. Yeah. Although he represents not at all what's going on in the race right now. and they've, like, made absolutely, they want to stay as far away from that as possible. The real world components. Yeah, exactly. And that's the kind of movie it is, right? Where it's, like, allegedly about our modern times and how we, like, engage with each other and the world around us and it, it has absolutely no depth. Yeah. I think this movie is extremely unsuccessful. And I think Affleck is a very good filmmaker. So I think there's a couple reasons for it. One of them is, the general plotting is extremely noisy and there's a lot going on in this. It's trying to be a lot of different kinds of things. And I felt this way a bit about Highest to Lowest, but one of the reasons, I thought Highest to Lowest was a better film than this. I know a lot of people watched that at home and thought it sucked. I thought there was a lot to recommend about it, although it's definitely flawed. But both of those movies commit a similar problem to me, which is, in High and Low, the Toshiro Mifune character is a shoe salesman. He's kind of an anonymous, very successful rich guy. He's like a shoe magnate. In Japan. But he's not like a public person. And in both Highest to Lowest and in this movie, you've got a mayoral candidate and you've got a very, like a Diddy-esque record executive. You know, none of Diddy's horrible extracurriculars, but just like his success and notoriety. And I think that kind of misunderstands High and Low a little bit, which is that like, this is a person who has been like targeted because of his wealth, but not because of his notoriety specifically. And then the confusion that happens in the film and the story, and this happens in all three of these films, where one child is kidnapped and the kidnappers believe they have kidnapped the well-known person's child. But in fact, they've kidnapped the person who works for that well-known person, someone who's of a much lower kind of financial class in life. It tilts the balance of power and then it becomes about what are you going to do publicly? What are you going to do publicly? And then that becomes the primary interest of the movies and in Highest to Lowest and in this film, it becomes about this famous man solving the problem. And like being in the right place at the right time and getting physical with the right people and all that stuff is like, that's movie star bullshit. That's not like clever or thoughtful plotting around some of this storytelling. And then the secondary thing in this movie, which really makes it suffer, is it's really trying to be five movies at the same time. It's trying to be this complicated domestic drama about a marriage on the rocks between Affleck and Kerry Washington. It's about kind of like seemingly a failed son, like the son of a well-known guy in Los Angeles who's trying to prove to himself and to his dead father and everybody else that he can win as an independent in Los Angeles in the mayoral race. I'm not, have we ever had an independent win the mayoral race in LA? I tried to do some research on this. There's not very many independent candidates who've won mayoral races in America in the last 50 years because we don't really support third parties in this country very well. Right. And also it's expensive as we learn in the first 10 minutes of this movie. Incredibly expensive. Through some, some tough expositional dialogue that poor Steven Yeun has to deliver. Yeah. Steven Yeun, like one of our great actors, like completely misused and like, I don't, I get, I know, I know they're boys and he was in The Rip, but like, he's way too good for that part. Agree. It's also like a, it's meant to be like a political thriller a little bit about this guy who, he's like the white candidate who thinks he has more to say to the Latino class, to the white class of citizens here in Los Angeles because he speaks Spanish and the Latina candidate doesn't. And so like, there's some component of that. And then there's also this component about like a, it's like a social drama about LA families who employ people in their homes to take care of their children and some of them are here legally and some of them are here illegally and some of the contradictions and complications of that. Yeah. And then there's this hostage thriller. Yes. Where Gillian Anderson Sure. Is a fixer who comes in and she knows the right way to get money fast so you can pay Yeah. hostage takers, kidnappers. Mm-hmm. And this is all happening in like one hour and 52 minutes. It's true. And it's too much. It's way too much. It's too much. And pretty much everyone besides Ben Affleck and Gillian Anderson are misguessed. Yeah. I would say. Gillian Anderson is good but she's in a different movie. Like, I feel like she got the assignment, like she got it. Yeah. But like, it's a way pulpier, shittier, fun movie. Yeah. It's not like a serious movie about like, what if this man could be the mayor? She is playing the movie version of Kerry Washington's Olivia Pope in Scandal. That's right. And I think Kerry Washington was great on Scandal and she would have been great in that part also. Yeah. And because Gillian Anderson is there opposite her, feels the need to like do another level and slick the hair back. I mean, she's fine. She's, I have no problem with it. Yeah. Everybody's in a different movie. Yeah. You know, and so because of that it just feels really incoherent and then the other thing is just like that is a really good I mean, Gone Baby Gone and The Town, especially to me, are fucking bangers. You don't have to tell me. Those are great, great films. And this feels like it's like scaled down. It's like a little bit too much chaotic handheld. The performances are way too shouty. I agree with you about the drone shots. There's this sense of like trying to create energy maybe in a streaming movie environment where there might not be some because this is a very talky drama. You know, there's not a lot of action that actually happens. It's a lot of like four people in a room trying to figure out how to solve a problem. And that's not inherently cinematic. And so he is trying to use a lot of strategies to like pump up the energy throughout the movie that that feels like very leaden and doesn't really work. Yeah, there there is a lot going on, but you can feel it being like cover all at the same time, whether it's, you know, literal or just kind of, oh, like we filmed this dossier and are putting this. It's pretty tough. And, you know, he's obviously been many places talking about. His A.I. company and the way in which he uses A.I. in his films. And you can't tell the difference. And I would encourage everyone to listen to him explain A.I. for 20 minutes to my husband, Zach Baron, because it's astonishing. And like like open A.I. should put Sam Altman in the bunker for many reasons. But like, honestly, just hire Ben and let him sell your product because he's doing an amazing job. But he does as a spokesperson. But because he talks. He talks about how much A.I. has been used in the making of this movie, even if it's like, honestly, just really procedural stuff. You just start to feel the lack of humanness in the in the film. And I think also the pace at which it's cut, which I suspect has something to do with the number of things that's trying to do and also something to do with it being a Netflix movie. It just feels really, really, really busy and sort of shortcutty. Yeah, I haven't seen 14th yet, the new Amy DuVernay movie. But that premiered over the weekend at the New York Film Festival. And that movie also, which got some good reviews, but also came under fire for using A.I. to animate photographs, archival photographs in her film. And so this is something we've been talking about a lot over the last couple of years. We talked about it with The Brutalist. And I think at that time I was like, hey, if you have a problem with A.I. in your movies, it's going to be hard to watch movies. But it is now like really coming in. And if you if I learn tomorrow that, in fact, other mommy did use A.I., I wouldn't be stunned. And so but I think that point that you make is really smart, which is. Is that there is something about the cutting style of the movies now that feels like they're creating a little bit of chaos that looks like you're kind of swiping up on your phone and you're waiting for the next kind of tick tock edit to hit. And that that like swarming feeling that the edits give you of just like, boom, boom, boom. Like this keeps happening. We talked about this forgotten island. We talked about this with Super Mario. Like there is something happening with the pacing of movies right now. And for it to be happening in movies like this now also feels like a little bit of a change. Like this. We're very comfortable sitting in their atmosphere. That was sort of the point of the movie. But the atmosphere of this movie is so frenetic. Yeah. And and I think you're right to point out that some of it is just trying to elevate or add to the fact that it's for people sitting in a room and or talking to someone on the phone. Yeah. But you put all of those elements together and it it feels it feels really streaming. It just it feels like cheap in a different way, even though I don't think it was very cheap because it was filmed here in Los Angeles. And that costs a lot of money, as we know. And it's so fascinating because cheap can have different meanings. Again, Highest to Lowest didn't do this as much in some sequences when the cops would come over. But this movie, because there's so much time spent with those four folks, Kerry Washington, Affleck, Stephen Young and Gillian Anderson. Kind of like pushing their power around the room over time. High and low. One of the greatest things about it is the way that those scenes were filmed. People were Mifune and the police officers and the people who work for him are in one large room that kind of overlooks the city. And the way that those sequences are blocked and the way that they communicate power and where Mifune is versus where everyone else who is enthralled to him is at all times. It's like it's one of the great filmmaking achievements for a director who didn't make very many contemporary dramas like that. And this movie is in a it's in a really nice house in L.A. I guess there are they in Brentwood. One assumes. Yeah. And so there's in theory like. Money to work with. But you never really get the sense of that kind of style or intentionality. No. From this. And it's disappointing. You know, it's it's it's this this kind of bum me out this movie. To me, the only redeeming moments are. Are Ben Affleck alone without anybody else and the moments where he is acting and he. He clearly understands what he's trying to do or he has an idea of what he wants to do. But. The offhand like very natural. The scene when the photographer is directing him in the photo shoot and he's so clearly channeling so many ideas and. Insecurity is about being Ben Affleck and he's like, should we take the coat off? Do I have to do this now? I'm doing this, that and so there are like little flashes of Ben Affleck throughout it, who is one of our great subjects and certainly one of my great, you know, studies in life. So, again, some of it is just like, what do you what do you like watching, you know, because I think it's it's not successful, but there are glimmers of Ben. The campaign commercial is really, really funny. Yeah, it's it is funny that he just put himself in a movie where he could speak Spanish 30 percent of the time because he did do like some sort of study abroad where he speaks Spanish. And so, you know, normally his Spanish is just on his press tours, but now he's got all of it. Terrible accent, but he's just hanging in. Yeah. And, you know, and yelling about getting a divorce and what he's going to tell his son and all this stuff. I was like, my guy, my guy is here in a big mess of stuff. But he's right there. Yeah. So the problem, the problem with all of this is that we already have Gone Girl. That's true. We already have the magnum opus of Ben's study. Like we and it is it. Mm hmm. You know, Gillian Flynn. David Fincher understood. You don't have to tell me in the construction of that movie. And his life has changed. Affleck's and it is evolved. And he's been doing quite a bit of press for this film. My Instagram is just Ben Affleck. It's really that doesn't make it any different than any other day. Well, we just have more to work with now. But, you know, he has talked to Zach about this. He's talked to others about this, that, you know, the film was originally Damon and Jennifer Garner. And I don't think Jennifer Garner ever said. Yes, I think that was how he imagined it. OK. And I think that once Damon wasn't able to do it, he went to Jen and she was like, no, we're not going to work with you. He was like she was like, we don't want to do this, which smart lady. Shout out to Carter. I wonder if the movie. If it's relieved of some of its Ben Affleck awareness, if it takes on a different energy or if he takes on a different energy, if he doesn't have to direct himself in it. I mean, I said to you. I said to you when we saw it, like, what if Spike had directed this movie or this script or had directed. If they traded. Yeah. Or if if Spike had directed Ben Affleck in one adaptation of of High and Low. I'm not sure Ben Affleck should have directed Highest to Lowest, but maybe that would have worked. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because the best part of Highest to Lowest were I thought like the the action, the set pieces, the the trade and the Puerto Rican Day Parade. And then also Denzel and Rocky. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I would not I would not put Ben Affleck in that particular scene. In charge of that sequence? No, nor would I cast him. Nor would I replace Denzel with him in that scene. I want to watch Ben Affleck rap battle A$AP Rocky. Who doesn't want to watch that? Love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca-Cola for everyone. Yeah, this is the number one movie on Netflix. And for a minute this morning there when I opened Netflix, it did not have a top 10 signature next to it. And I was like, oh, no, you got nervous. My guy is down bad. No, no. This is yeah, but it's doing OK. It's yeah. People saw it, I guess. Or did they? We've been evolving this idea of. What the streaming movie is, what streaming movie stardom is, you know, many of Ben's last recent films have been streaming movies. And now he obviously is is very much in business with Netflix right now. Yeah. And Air was an Amazon movie. It comes for us all. Yeah. You know, it comes for us all. Myself included. OK, let's talk about Ben. Did 580 million come for you from your AI company? It did not. Nor do I have an AI company. I'll just put that on the record. What makes Ben Affleck special? Not to you. In general. Well, I think that I mean, he is a leading man figure, you know, tall, classically handsome and has always communicated. Not an underdog quality, but a. Thank you. And we don't believe in equality, like a tarnished man to to quote a clip that's been going around. And so he's you know, he's not Jimmy Stewart, but he can play the more complicated or the dirtbags that we need in films and have you still root for him, which is, I think, essential to filmmaking. Yeah, I think he's I think he feels like growing up, he was underestimated. And that comes through in all of his work, where no matter how handsome he gets, no matter how many awards he wins, no matter how many big movies he gets to star in, there is this incredible friction between matinee idol Burt Lancaster style, good looks, six, three, you know, granite jawed, but he's way too smart for his own good sometimes. And you can I feel I say this as a person with an active mind. I feel an active mind. Mm hmm. I feel a person. I feel a person who is always thinking about what is the right thing to do, say how to be right about something, how to be entertaining, how to be and that energy, that friction between the traditional handsomeness. Yeah. And this like, like race against yourself, you know? Yeah, well, and the race against yourself goes both ways, because there is also there's a real there's some sort of fatal flaw going, you know, on with Affleck. And obviously he's talked about his addiction and his battle with sobriety. And we know more about his personal life than, you know, anyone should people. Yeah. And so we've seen him get back together with Jennifer Lopez, get married, have that end again. So there is something about for someone who is clearly as smart and has as much to prove as he clearly feels he does. Then he just he just does something else. He's just always a little bit on the edge. And there is an interesting tension to that as well, where you can't. And I kind of can't look away. Yeah. And that this usually works against stars when you know these things about them. But for him, for whatever reason, and maybe it's because he has taste or he knows how to put himself in the hands of filmmakers he likes or he knows how to generate interesting stuff for himself. But I like knowing all that stuff about him. I think it actually works really well in his case. And it doesn't work as well in the case of Brad Pitt. It doesn't work well to know things about him because Brad Pitt attempts to be mysterious and he attempts to be a very kind of quiet and powerful figure on screen. Then Affleck is like shouting throughout. Animals, you know, he's like having a nervous breakdown in the movie and he's not afraid to give performances like that. He's not afraid to. And I think you can see that like the people who first found him, Richard Linklater and Kevin Smith, they those people really understood him. They understood what was funny about him. Sure, they understood what was charming and handsome and compelling about him. But like he's a motor mouth, you know, he's like he's a smart guy and a smart ass. And then he has a long stretch of his career where he's like, I'm the strong, silent type. And everybody's like. No, that's not what you are. Don't do that. No. And we everyone we rejected it. Yeah, we didn't want it. I mean, that's the other interesting thing about him is how much like ups and downs he has had. And he's still out here asking for everybody's attention and approval. He's not giving up. Yeah. And and he has, you know, summited the mountain and gone back down several times at this point and is still going. It's pretty fascinating. It's wonderful. Yeah. I mean, it makes him a great subject here and in the world of movies in general. What do you think will be his legacy as a as a person? Because he had he was off to this kind of crazy run as a filmmaker. Yeah. He makes this very acclaimed indie that turns his career around. Yeah. Then he makes, you know, kind of like a stone cold crime classic for the 2000s. And then he wins Best Picture. Yeah. And we're like, whoa, he's Warren Beatty. Yeah. This is amazing. And then. Live by night. I mean, well. I like air. I like air. I like like air. You like. I like air. I'm like air is another one where it's like, I don't really I don't care about Nike that much. So I'm just like air is kind of the other mommy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, but it is a little bit of I would rather watch Ben Affleck walk in a room and be like, who's Ron? You know that. Yeah. That's so interesting. Well, I mean, not that I think it's better. And I think air is probably like a more successful and like better made movie. But I don't think it's better. But I the the shots of the Air Force Ones or the or the Jordans, the Jordans. Sorry. Obviously, the Jordans like just show just so. And I could see all the Nike people there being like, no, no, or she will only be presented in exactly this way. And, you know, it takes me out of it. Whereas thinking through like, so why would Kerry Washington's password be one one one one and and then she would still not be hiding these text messages or not be on signal? Like, what are we? What are we doing there? You know? Well, she was on signal, wasn't she? Although maybe they only only very special stuff goes on signal because Ray Fisher at the beginning of Animals is like, right. Or she says, like, why did this have to come through signal? Yeah. Yeah. No, because he finds the text messages from Ron. They're just right there. Right. Ron. Geez. Ron. Yeah. Anyway, you know, the director versus actor thing. He's not an acclaimed actor. I think he's a very good actor. And you can make the case that he's been doing his best work as an actor. Maybe over the last five or six years, you know, that like in stuff like The Way Back where he's giving a real performance and is not just like doing a movie star thing where he's got to be the hero holding the gun. Tenderbar. He was wonderful. Excellent in that movie. Yeah. That movie. It's another movie that's like kind of a little bit of a rickety streaming movie, but he's really, really good at that. I don't I actually I don't know. I don't know how how he'll be remembered for lack of a better phrase. Well, I do think that he will be remembered as as as Ben Affleck. As the whole story and as much the extracurricular movie star stuff as the work itself, that it's all part and parcel and that it's all speaking to each other. So I don't think Warren Beatty is like the worst cop. No, I think that's that. Yeah. In in that respect. And also, you know, you liked Rules Don't Apply. But but no one else did. That's kind of my that's my very. Yeah, that's what I like. But they made them look so beautiful. 80 year old Warren Beatty was so beautiful. So it's, you know, with Warren Beatty. There is there is a hot streak. I think Warren Beatty was probably in more movies that changed the course of, quote, unquote, Hollywood history. Yeah. Then these, which is just we all really love the town. But, you know, he's Ben Affleck is like a party to a lot of important Hollywood trends. I mean, he is Batman at one point. No doubt. No doubt. I think you can we can argue here whether or not we feel like that is the good Ben or the bad Ben popping out, you know, because as we go through his filmography and we'll start doing that right now. That signals a shift. He's in the middle of a phase and he exits a phase. He has a lot of phases. And his decision to sort of like try to surmount whatever people think he is at any given time is fascinating to me. OK, we'll start with the we'll start with his career as an actor. OK, obviously, his films as a director also apply to his Hall of Fame here. Yes. And some of those, hopefully, he's in as well. So most of them. All of them. Oh, no, he's not gone. I've been gone. Yeah. And yet, well, is that his best film? Interesting question. I don't know. OK, so he starts out in three very small, mostly uncredited parts. The beginning of his career. I noticed you don't have Voyage of the Mimi on here. I don't know what that is. That's his first job. That's that's like one on one. But more right. Voyage of the Mimi. Yeah, it's a PBS show. They always talk about it. But that was his first credit. OK, it's fine. That's not a film, though, right? No, but I just. You know, sometimes you have TV work on these. Yeah, I didn't put any of the TV work. He didn't do that thing where he jumped back and he was like, now I'm the star of an HBO series for 12 episodes. You've never seen this? Look at him. Look at that tiny Ben Affleck. 1984. I haven't seen the Voyage of the Mimi. Well, you are not. Is the Mimi a ship? Is it a spaceship? Yes, it's a it's the ship Mimi exploring the ocean. Oh, and they're taking a census of humpback whales, according to Wikipedia. You want to you want to yellow it? I just listen. It's not every day that you have a subject matter expert on the pod. But today, right. I also I also didn't add like all of the extracurricular interviews and things we could have done like you're welcome to venture venture Ben Affleck variety that happened during covid. When people send me the meme of like them being the third listening to our show. That was me with that podcast where I'm like quietly in a room like listening to them talk all excitedly. That was me listening to Zach and Ben Affleck. I was honestly a real head trip. I was like, no, no, this is too intimate. Like, why? Why? Why are you guys talking? It was really strange. Never had that with anyone else. I know. Yeah, they're buds. 1981. The Dark End of the Street. He plays Tommy. Haven't seen this. I know this is a child performance. It is not going in the Hall of Fame. I guess it's before Voyage of the Mimi. So I'm sorry. Yes, he must have been very young there. 1988, he played an extra in The Good Mother. Of course, that isn't going in. He's also uncredited in Field of Dreams. This is another part of Ben lore. Yeah. Ben and Matt together. Yes, they both appeared in Field of Dreams, though they have no speaking lines. Yeah. And then we go to 1992. Yes. Let's keep a close eye on all of Ben Affleck's character's names. The name of his character in School Ties from 1992 about a private school that vilifies a Jewish student played by Brendan Fraser. Ben plays Chesty Smith. And he's he's one of the unkind bullies. Yeah, they all they all are. He and Matt Damon and who's that other really tall, handsome guy. some guy who didn't quite take off in his career who's in that movie uh randall battencourt that's the guy yeah but chris o'donnell's also in this and he's more kind yeah yeah yeah and then cole hauser's also in it hauser oh we'll see him again soon uh deep bench school ties probably very important to you sexually um i do think that it's a good movie it's a fun there was a rewatch i was not on the rewatchables but i think mallory did stand in for our generation and say as much i mean this is a great um scouting movie right uh-huh yeah so it's not going to go in his particular hall of fame but if you wanted to do like a list the hall of fame of of who's who for the 90s yeah he had a tendency to pop up in a bunch of movies like that um in 1992 he plays an unnamed character a basketball player on buffy the vampire slayer a movie i've always really enjoyed obviously everyone knows the television series very well um starring sarah michelle geller but i was in on the christy swanson era okay luke perry did you see this movie yeah of course paul rubens yeah uh rutger hauer and ben affleck yeah basketball player number 10 yes not going in the hall of fame are basketball player numbers like associated to what position no that you play okay uh 1993 days that's a good question i'm teaching you about voyages of mimi you can teach me about basketball i learned something new here every week from you uh dazed and confused from 1993 he plays fredo banyan right another bully um a subject ultimately of ridicule in this movie hysterical performance by ben affleck really funny and also as you mentioned it's link later seeing something in ben affleck that ben affleck maybe doesn't see in himself um or maybe i think he's given interviews since then about this experience and and link later divining something in him that he didn't really want to see because he's given interviews about everything at this point um but it's sort of the who's that guy moment so we could yellow it i think we should yellow it okay great uh one of the very few movies on this list that i have not seen is 1995's glory days glory days is a comedy starring affleck and sam rockwell about i guess a bunch of guys who are on the verge of college graduation we're about to go out into the world um you know pretty interesting cast here uh i haven't seen this matthew mcconaughey meredith salinger matt damon brendan fraser and leah remini are all in small parts in this movie it's kind of a forgotten indie i guess french stewart is the third lead okay uh it made fifteen thousand dollars at the box office but i see here that it debuted at the hamptons international film festival it sure did so that must have been a nice weekend glory days is red okay do you think it's gonna be hard to get to 10 or easy easy okay 1995 mall rats chris ryan once again is not here we need that we need the phone of chris uh chris and i will one day do our kevin smith view a skew it's been on the schedule like five times we will do it um mall rats never my favorite i would say my least loved in the original trilogy of kevin smith movies the clerks mall rats chasing amy yeah um he does something funny here where he cast affleck as shannon hamilton who's sort of the bully he's sort of the obanian he's sort of the like insinuating gross creepy guy who's moving in on shannon doherty and it's also pretty funny i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know yeah this movie is i still like it i still i still like it it's not it's not very cool to like mall rats anymore it's important to like what you like you know yeah i don't love to know that about yourself i don't think that it goes in even i think if we're gonna pick a kevin smith or even two kevin smiths it's not the funny thing about this movie and this is somewhat true about chasing amy as well and we can talk about them in tandem since they come back to back is if you had said for ten thousand dollars who will be a bigger star ben affleck or jason lee i would have said jason lee a hundred times out of a hundred yeah and jason lee is effectively you know he's the second lead of mall rats he's also the second lead of chasing amy but ben affleck is the lead of chasing amy and i would say this is the first time he really gets a chance to act um he is one of the best deliverers of kevin smith dialogue yeah i think actually his like fast talking pop culture brain yeah um is very well suited to dialogue that most actors struggle with and one of the reasons why kevin smith is not at the top of the heap in filmmaking is most people can't do his dialogue you know some i think some people think this movie is not aging that well or it's sexual politics have gotten more complicated over time it was a this was a big movie for me yeah this is a really big movie for me um and i think he's great in it i think joey lauren adams is great in it and it's just kind of how we all i mean because this came out it came out before goodwill hunting right and so you know if you're if you're in the kevin smith zone you know about ben affleck but this year you're just kind of like wait this guy and then hollywood also seems to think that because they put him in every single blockbuster in the world so it's important to his career these three movies in 97 are all really important to him um i think chasing amy has to be at minimum a yellow yeah of course it is okay we can come back it is a showcase for him in a way that he's never had before um the i i've said this before on the show the commentary track for this movie is kevin smith scott mosher the producer affleck maybe one other person and affleck is so fucking funny on it so funny and it is like a real like are movie stars allowed to be this funny like are you allowed to know this much about yeah movie history like it to me it's a real falling in love with him moment just like getting interested in this is he the great bard of the director's commentary he he's the punchline machine he's like the funny guy not of this movie i mean of directors because i was gonna say like he has a famous one coming yeah exactly and that's one of like the extras that i could have like you could put that one in the hall let's talk about it when we get there okay um going all the way which is a small period piece that he starred in opposite uh is it rose mcgowan and is it joining going as well i forget who the other female lead in it is um rachel vice is in it rachel vice okay yeah and amy locaine yes so this is uh a movie about two guys who come home from korea and pick up a couple of girls and have like a crazy night out um jeremy davies is the lead affleck is like jeremy davies is like the wimpy yeah sad maybe ptsd afflicted guy and ben affleck is the super handsome no problem with girls guy uh not going in i would say no but not i remember seeing it yeah it's fine you know this was the time when you you know it is the season tickets thing of just like i'm just gonna see anything this guy does sure um including 1997's goodwill hunting yeah an absolute green truly green retainer uh co-written by ben affleck yeah um some are saying based on ben affleck now that we know we know about his scientific exploits yeah uh he's very very funny and affecting as chuck yes i mean he gets the the best part of my day speech at the end he does really brings it all together said a lot about goodwill hunting over the years it's still one of the classics 30 years next year 30 years we are old we are old yeah uh 1998 phantoms i watched the film for the first time last night you know tell you who's in this movie okay ben affleck mm-hmm leah schreiber mm-hmm rose mcgown yeah joanna going okay and peter o'toole wow okay peter o'toole plays a journalist working for uh what i believe is called the worldwide news which is a kind of weekly world news national inquire style place and he's been writing about the ancient entity oh okay for a long time which is a some sort of lovecraftian evil okay but it's separate from the entity in mission impossible this is not ai dead reckoning part one this is something completely different we know that it's not ai well what if what if ai is really the ancient entity come back to i think that would mean that phantoms from 1998 has an extraordinary uh foresight into our culture um this is just like a somewhat silly horror movie with some cool practical effects from its time kind of the other mommy of its day okay um probably best known for the uh j joke affleck was the bomb and phantoms yo that would come in later yeah clerks view a skew universe film yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah sure uh phantoms isn't good so it's not going yeah it's not bad ben plays a sheriff listen he's a sheriff who is a former fbi agent and how old is he a great question 26 that's just rapid career advancement you know i completely agree you understand why gen z is mad at us look at these people it's true they've had a lot of experience and then he encountered the ancient entity yeah so he had a life experience okay um i will just say quickly about it peter o'toole he cooked he's pretty good he's really good it's like why are you in this how good was this check maybe peter o'toole just wants to have fun i guess so but at one point he goes into one of those um one of those suits yeah so that he's not infected by the entity oh okay but so peter o'toole is like walking around like he's like a scientific figure in a suit you know what my mom often says about retirement she's like it's great except i'm not around young people anymore oh and it's like so i feel like i'm like i don't have young people keeping me sharp keeping me thank god for me thank god for you guys anyway maybe peter o'toole just wanted to be around young people that honestly makes sense yeah that would be great i wish he did more junky movies like that candidly um 1998 1998 armageddon well this is absolutely agreed this is one of the most important movies of my childhood absolutely he sings leaving on a jet plane to live tyler yeah and this is also when he does possibly the most important director's commentary in physical media history uh and you know completely uh dissects and undermines the entire premise of the film why can't you just uh blow up what is it well i one they go to blow up the asteroid right they have to train to be astronauts so why can't you just train astronauts to be uh oil uh oil rig operators drillers yeah yeah i mean it's a good it's a good question yeah armageddon is great it's very sappy i will never forget how much i cried the first time i saw it because i was what i would have been 14 maybe maybe i saw i saw it at home i remember the tv setup i was in my mom's room okay summer because i couldn't drive yet and there was no school and my mom had to work and i was like i don't want to go to like a camp or whatever so i was just like what you know millions of americans across the country so excited for camp to spend time with their friends to make new friends did you were you a camp person i didn't go to sleepover camp but i went to camp yeah every day for what are you talking about so did i when i needed a babysitter and then i wasn't like a listen but i didn't go to sleep over camp i didn't go to sleep over camp i didn't go to sleep over camp you know i didn't want to be at tennis camp anymore it was hot in atlanta going out with your friends well they didn't have driver's licenses either okay so we couldn't get anywhere during the day while our parents were at work there's hitchhike to your friend's house um i didn't do that instead i stayed home and i watched armageddon and i cried for like 20 minutes by myself just like weeping and i think the only thing that made me stop crying was the backstreet boys i wanted that way video on the box is that is that correct time wise i wanted that way what year was i wanted that way no it's 99 okay so but if armageddon came out in 98 and then i saw it at home in 99 that's correct okay listen what a time to have been alive your mind is a marvel thank you ben affleck and michael bay 1998 shakespeare in love he's quite good in this sure and it's not going in um i mean he's playing a supporting part he's pretty funny yeah he's very funny they had one best picture yeah you're mad that's a deeply unfortunate thing that happened yeah should not have happened uh this is also where he meets gwyneth i believe so they were together for some time that's right he's riding high on the miramax train here so yes and that also gives us one of the great memes which is gwyneth patro just looking disgusted while he tries to kiss her at some point because she's pissed at him at a party thank you to everyone involved 1989 200 cigarettes he plays bartender no not the last time he'll play a bartender this is not going in this is an ensemble comedy uh set on new year's eve in new york city in 1979 that's correct um 1999 forces of nature the harper's bazaar magazine cover yeah cover from that era sits behind us that's true co-starring sandra bullock two leos sandra bullock has your exact birthday just so you know is that true yeah i discovered that the last time i googled to confirm that they were both leos you know who else has that birthday tell me stanley kubrick okay well that's you know when i when i think of people just like you i think of stanley kubrick and sandra bullock three people who know what they want yeah uh forces of nature haven't seen it since 1999 saw it in the movie theater of course don't recall being a big fan no but i'm sure that i had a good time this it's probably i'm i bet it was better than verity well sure but also well but bronwen hughes that's the director of this film oh woman yeah wow then we're oh buddy oh she's also the director of harriet the spy that's a classic have you guys done harriet the spy yet no we have the book we have not read it yet yeah yeah we got a great great movie also bronwen hughes what happened bronwen hughes was the director of 2003's stander which was a bank robber movie starring thomas jane she was also the music supervisor on that film wow okay listen bronwen hughes we love for you to learn and grow every single day all right forces of nature not going in dogma it's sean's time um kevin smith was on the show to talk about this movie when it came out in 4k this is some of ben affleck's best acting ever yeah and the movie is like simultaneously very deep and very silly there's parts of it that are very stupid there are parts of it that are not as cinematically impressive as you'd like them to be but there are a couple of scenes between affleck and damon that are as affleck and damon as stuff that is in good hunting um i don't know that this needs to go in do you want to yellow it i will just yellow it as an acknowledgement of a movie that i enjoy also a movie that as a you know person exiting an era of faith i thought it was very cool that there was a mainstream comedy yes attempting to joust with some of these very ideas this was the most important movie in 1999 for people who had seen all of ben affleck's other movies that's absolutely correct yeah um the same could be said for boiler room absolutely which came out in 2000 uh ben affleck has a well just i'm going to do a couple of quick character names i've overlooked a few so i'm going to do a couple of quick character names i've overlooked a few so we've been going through in going all the way he plays gunner castleman in uh armageddon his character's name is aj frost yeah in dogma he is named bartleby he's an angel yeah and in boiler room he plays jim young a boring name for an intoxicating character only appears twice in the film delivers one of the great speeches in dumb movies in the 2000s to a room full of long island morons who think they're going to be stock market geniuses it's kind of like the philip seymour hoffman and charlie wilson's war type one scene that has kind of the the movie has its own charms it does on its own of a time period but that these are the scenes that that elevate it i don't remember if we put the charlie wilson's war monologue in the philip seymour hoffman hall of fame we may have i i don't even think i was on the show at that point advocating for this going in well i just think we should yellow it you know very interesting idea and i think you're right okay thank you so much because it's such a memorable speech it's nice when we can you know come together and agree on things we come together every okay other day to record a podcast 2000 yeah boiler room can be yellow 2000 reindeer games i just popped in the old 4k reindeer games this morning to check it i haven't seen in a while forgot about the premise of this movie do you know the premise of this movie uh no i've watched recently but i've no ben affleck's in prison he's in prison with his best friend his best friend nick his best friend nick's been having a correspondence with a woman who's not in prison who can't wait to get out of prison yeah she's been sending him photographs they've been telling each other about each other's lives then there's a fight in the prison nick in an effort to save rudy's life is killed in prison two days later rudy gets out of prison ben affleck yeah who's waiting for him this woman who's been corresponding with his dead best friend she's played by charlie's theron this i remember charlie why is charlie's theron corresponding with the man in prison she's never met never seen ben affleck yeah says i'm not rudy i'm nick now even though nick's dead and i'm gonna shack up with charlie's theron but as soon as he takes on nick's identity he gets entrenched in some sort of crazy crime drama that part i do remember what a weird movie this is john frankenheimer's last movie he died after this movie was made not good it's not going in bad film uh boiler room is is red guys or excuse me reindeer games is red joseph king of dreams this is an animated film a very rare occurrence where ben affleck lent his voice to an animated film he plays joseph in joseph king of dreams okay so this is like post prince of egypt correct yeah that's red all right 2001 bounce also with gwyneth paltrow i believe yeah not going in but obviously i was there opening day crying weeping so this is this the movie about a two a couple whose partners die on a plane yeah right am i getting that right yeah and is it don ruse it is don ruse uh i gotta say i remember vividly seeing this movie in movie theaters and thinking like wow what a bracing piece of material this is a really adult it's a really adult drama we were teenagers and they were both really really hot so and they wanted to have sex with each other so that's really yeah i this is this is missing from the culture right now okay i'm not sure if this is a good movie i'm not saying that it is but this kind of work yeah i'm open to it what if they just remade it the two of them right now i'd be fine with that yeah you know who shot this movie robert elswit wow heard of them who shot there will be blood pretty good okay love to see it uh you know what robert elswit also shot pearl harbor no animals okay it's a long journey bounce is red pearl harbor is red yeah really quite bad yeah i was very much on the michael bay train at this point in time as were you coming off of armageddon he brings ben back yeah also josh hartnett you know not ideal yeah um this is a dramatization of the events of december 7 1941 a day that will live in infamy a movie that will live in infamy very very bad i cried so much in the theaters did you yeah again i was what i was 17 okay listen i could drive myself to the movie theater then so i saw it opening up in the theaters and i was like oh my god i'm going to go to the movie theater yeah and i was like oh my god i'm going to go to the movie theater impressive thank you uh also in 2001 he made daddy in them a movie i've never seen before this is the third film directed by billy bob thornton stars billy bob and laura dern as uh i don't know some kind of couple who are having some kind of trouble in the american south crazy cast in this movie Brenda Blethen Laura Dern Andy Griffith Diane Ladd Kelly Preston Jamie Lee Curtis and Ben Affleck as a lawyer yeah believable as a lawyer sure not going in edited by the great Sally Menke though 2001 Jane Silent Bob Strike Back this is the movie where they do Good Will Hunting 2 yeah which is one of the great bits he also plays Holden McNeil his character from Chasing Amy in this movie please remember that his character in Chasing Amy was named Holden McNeil as in Holden Caulfield yeah Kevin Smith you want to yellow this one I don't I love it but it's a cameo part well sometimes cameos are important we got a lot of work to do we gotta keep going 2002 Changing Lanes is this a movie about you driving as well could be right I'm a good driver I'm fine Changing Lanes is the showdown we've all been waiting for between Samuel L. Jackson and Ben Affleck they have a car accident on the way to work I believe in New York and it sets off a chain reaction their lives are tremendously impacted yeah Roger Michelle directed this movie do you know what else he directed Notting Hill that's right yeah come on very I think this is his follow up to Notting Hill well he only wants to work with the best you know yeah he passed away a few years ago Roger Michelle very strange directing career how did Ben choose parts you know what else Roger Michelle directed what else Morning Glory oh yeah I didn't know that so that's your guy yeah Changing Lanes very similar to Bouncer I was like we need this we need to start a dialogue it wasn't bad it wasn't bad it was fine it was fine and then you got to go to the movies and see Ben Affleck and Samuel L. Jackson you know have a chain of events that's right this movie was really blotted out by like Pearl Harbor being a nightmare and everybody was like Ben Affleck I don't know about this and this is also is the Jenny from the block video this year could be but this is like peak yeah it is it's 2002 he's gotten so famous yeah and they're on the front page of every tabloid Jenny from the block video could also be on the extracurricular sure some tremendous work in that film that's important stuff he plays Gavin Bannock in Changing Lanes and then in that same year he appears in another film with a very memorable titular character The Sum of All Fears yeah he stars as Jack Ryan he does he's the third Jack Ryan yeah he's only Jack Ryan once just once yeah he's not that good at it Morgan Freeman is the president one might argue this is not where are you at on Shadow Recruit which one is that the Chris Pine one yeah I think Chris Pine is a better Jack Ryan I agree I don't know that it's totally Ben Affleck's fault and also spoiler alert doesn't he become the secretary of defense or something at the end of this yes right there is there's like a designated survivor yeah secretary of war thing yeah this is Phil Alden Robinson who directed this movie who made Field of Dreams and Sneakers yeah but it's not very good no he doesn't have a handle on international espionage okay Some of All Fears is red yeah the third wheel I've never seen this this is an indie again one of only a handful of movies there's a few movies on here that are kind of fascinating like little what's-its in his career right so this one is going to be red as well I don't remember this yeah so it's he's like the third person with Luke Wilson and Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford who's the female lead of the third wheel Denise Richards wow yeah and 2002 also so yeah yeah I'd be her wheel okay in 2002 my word 2003 Daredevil now you've studied this film what are your thoughts so I have seen this film okay because this is also this is when he and Jennifer Garner get together because she's in it right as she plays Electra yeah right and it's it's really not good well this is the beginning of a very tragic stretch yeah a very complicated stretch now Daredevil a very interesting superhero he's currently in the MCU played by a different actor this film it's made immediately after Spider-Man and they got a little ahead of themselves okay in terms of what we think people are able to accomplish Daredevil is a lawyer you know who has super sensitive and he's blind right he's blind but he has his other senses are very powerful and he's also very strong and trained in martial arts much like myself Daredevil's red Colin Farrell is bullseye though come on he's giving it his all he is and I love that they put the actual bullseye on his head so do I he looks awesome he looks great the movie is not strong yeah 2003 Gigli really really really tough I mean you I mean we can't green it it is obviously like historically significant yes a world-class bomb yeah starring a real-life couple Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck directed by the great Martin Breast who directed Beverly Hills Cop and directed what am I forgetting Midnight Run yeah and Scent of a Woman and a number of other movies and this movie sucks it's awful I re-watched it recently for one draft thinking like it would fit into a category and it could be cute I guess for the the bombs draft and then I said no this is really painful here's what's so crazy about this is you can almost feel him thinking like okay well this thing didn't work so I'm going to try to do this thing and he starts working with really good directors so Roger Michelle coming off of Notting Hill Phil Alden Robinson you've got Martin Breast here for Gigli and then you've got John Woo for Paycheck yeah you've got really good filmmakers all in a row and Paycheck is also a complete dud and just not a very cleverly named movie because it is in fact a paycheck yes this is also a time in Affleck's career and life where the outside you know is coming for him and you kind of can see it in the performances and he's he's strained he is but like this is one where on paper I'm like this makes complete sense to me John Woo I think is coming off of Mission Impossible 2 at this point it's based on a Philip K. Dick novel okay it's Affleck and Uma Thurman and Paul Giamatti like this movie should be good but it's not it's terrible terrible yeah terrible and it is it's the case where like the easiest possible joke everyone made it and he's really reeling at this point 2004 he makes Jersey Girl yeah a reunion with Kevin Smith but a much more saccharine sentimental drama a girl dad movie shout out to the girl dads that is not good and that's Red and then Surviving Christmas right comes the next year which is a silly comedy with Christina Applegate James Gandolfini that you know has its fans no it's not it's not good it's Debra Kaplan Harry Elfant who did Can't Hardly Wait but it's no Can't Hardly Wait no so that's Red he shows up in the Elektra director's cut which I know you have that on 4K yeah do you have it on 4K no I don't think it's been issued in 4K okay do you have it on DVD no I don't own Daredevil or Elektra that's on principle they're not films I need to see again okay under really under any circumstance huge for nine-year-old me Elektra Sexual Awakening no kidding yeah probably saw it on cable later like a couple years after it came out I was like oh it's going on TV right now it was pretty cool um wow well thanks for sharing that Jack of course Jennifer Garner in Alias I think did that for yeah many of us um 2006 Man About Town this movie went straight to DVD that's true that's tough Mike Binder um who had has made many studio comedies over the years he made this one with Ben Affleck and Rebecca Romijn and those studios were like we're good yeah didn't work out so that's how low he was he was in 2006 we're not even done with 2006 yet because we have more well this is we had a little bounce back here in 2006 okay so Man About Town is red yeah 2006 Clerks 2 he's just gawking guy it's just a cameo part that's red 2006 Hollywoodland oh you're gonna try it out your pro Hollywoodland take well this was kind of a comeback for him because he played a real part yes and he's actually asked to act it's not a leading man part he's a supporting character to Adrian Brody in the movie um it's not the best movie in the world it's a period piece based on a true story um set in Los Angeles he plays George Reeves who is the actor who portrayed Superman in the Superman television series he wears a prosthetic yeah in this and I don't he's pretty good in this movie he's not bad but the movie itself I mean I remember seeing this in theaters in New York I had just graduated college because once again I'm never giving up the season ticket but not many other people did it didn't it didn't really make a splash and it was like he was trying to do something different and break out of the um the the negative feedback and it wasn't a bomb but it's not like everyone was like yay Hollywoodland well Ben Affleck earned the Volpe Cup for Best Actor at the Venice Film Festival he was also nominated for a gold medal Golden Globe for his performance in this movie. So it-- - Okay. This was a little bit of a comeback. Obviously, he was not nominated for an Academy Award. And in fact, zero acting nominations. Am I correct about that? In his career? At the Oscars. Yes. Yeah. I think so. Yes, I'm fairly certain that's true. He wasn't nominated for Argo. Not for The Town. Yeah, zero. Zero. Hollywoodland, I'm just going to yellow. Okay. Because I feel like it's a movie that he really needed. He also plays, like, kind of a supporting part in Smoke and Aces, the Joe Carnahan movie. Joe Carnahan, who directed The Rip, which came out earlier this year with Ben Affleck. Which is a very Tarantino-ish, rip-off, funny crime movie that, like, has its fans. It's not bad. But 2006 is sort of, he's broken up with Jennifer Lopez. He's married Jennifer Garner. He's receded. He's been through a string of just, like, absolute bombs. And so this is him showing up. And, like, he's not. He's not the main character. It's not a huge deal, but it's not bad. But also, like, he's receded a little bit, and he's making Gone Baby gone. So this, like, it's a transitional time. It is a transitional time. And he takes a few years off from movies in this time. Is this also the time of Project Greenlight? Great question, Ben and Matt. I feel like it might be. Interesting. Project Greenlight, of course, a fascinating reality competition television series about Matt Damon. And Ben Affleck's previous production company, which was called Pearl Street, I believe, in their efforts to discover an independent filmmaker to write and direct an independent film that they get produced after a series of episodes chronicling the sort of, like, audition process of finding the right person, putting the script together. Basically, it was a reality show about making a movie. And was very much catnip to me as a movie-obsessed young person. This was season three. There was, it was 2001, 2003, 2005. Got it. For the three seasons. You know, none of the movies that came out of that show were any good. Right. But the actual show, especially seasons one and two, I thought were really, really interesting. So, Snoke and Aces is red, I think, just because it's not a huge part. 2009, he comes back with three films. Yeah. And in the interim, we should say, he's directed Gone Baby Gone. Yes. And I just. That's 2009, right? Oh, 2007. Seven, yes. So, that's why there's that big. That's what it is. Yes, thank you. Like, break. And that is rapturously received. And that is really, like, the reinvention. It's the reset. Oh, you thought this guy was the, you know, the dumb movie from Paycheck and the tabloids. And now he's made this really sensitive, wonderful movie. Gone Baby Gone, to me, is green. Yeah. Yeah, a thousand percent. So, I think that only gives us, is it three greens? Three greens, yeah. That's what I'm saying about getting a 10. Now, we're getting into a hot zone again? Yeah. So, 2009, he's just not that into you. I've never seen it. It stinks. It's part of the wave of, like, the ensemble, rom-com, Valentine's Day, New Year's. Isn't this on a book, though? Yes, which was, it was a non-fiction book. It was advice, dating advice for women. Yeah. It's a really annoying movie. I think probably Cooper's also. Do you think Cooper's also in this? A dating book? Yeah. It's, you know what it is? Here's my dating advice. You need to make sure, so, your response can't be longer than the text that was sent to you. That's it. Now we're done. That's it. That's the only one. You can just do a visual test. Wow. There you go. Good luck out there, everyone. Now, what do you think that accomplishes? The retention of power? Yeah. Yes, exactly. That's how you think about marriage and relationships. I think that that's definitely what. I don't know what marriage is, but anyway. Understood. Yeah. So, he's just not that into you. Red? Red. 2009 State of Play. I wanted to revisit this before this episode, and I did not yet have a chance, because I was too busy watching Reindeer Games. State of Play is a film adaptation of a British television series. This was, I believe, the very first British TV show miniseries that CR was like, I have illegally obtained this. Okay. Let's watch this together. He may have even come to my apartment and watched this with me. Well, yeah. And if not, he sent me a link. I was going to ask. In 2009, how is he. We used to watch TV together. No, I remember that, but he illegally obtained it on his laptop. So, then how is he. He's either going to come over with his laptop or I guess. Sent the link? I guess. The British TV series was brilliant. The film is not bad. As I recall, not great. Yeah, the British series was 2003. So, that was early on when Chris and I were friends in like 2004, probably, when he got his hands on it. That series starred David Morrissey, Kelly MacDonald, Polly Walker, Bill Nighy, early James McAvoy performance. This movie, which is about a journalist looking into the suspicious death of a congressman who was played by Affleck. Yeah. And also has a very good cast. Rachel McAdams, Helen Mirren, Jason Bateman, Robin Wright, and it's Kevin MacDonald who directed The Last King of Scotland. But it's not great. It's not great. It's not bad. And I think we would be so excited were it released today. 100%. You know? It is, again, one of these. Full episode movies. We just need all of these. We need these things back at the cinema. But this is kind of like. Yeah. We used to have this and now we have animals. I agree with you. I agree with you. State of Play is red. I feel like a lot of Affleck in State of Play is seen in flashback as well. That sounds right. Because it's about his murder. Yeah. 2009 extract, he pops up very humorously in this Mike Judge comedy where he's like the buddy, best friend. It's sort of like a glorified cameo. He's really, really funny in the movie, but it's not in that comedy. Yeah, it doesn't need to go on. Okay. 2010, The Town. Incredibly green. Writes, directs, and stars. Yeah. Co-writes? Chuck Hogan? Maybe. He plays Doug McRae, a bank robber. He sure does. A bank robber who has got a real deep wellspring of emotional trauma. That's true. He's got a wild-eyed best friend who can't be trusted. He's got a real history with some ladies from that neighborhood that aren't to be trusted. Yeah. And also meets some new ladies. Well, he kidnaps some new ladies. Well, sure. Yeah, but then falls in love and also is once again working through that trauma. The Town's a banger. I last saw it at Coolidge Corner Cinema. That's fun. In Boston. Fucking ripped. A Boston classic. I still think it should have been eligible for the baseball draft. One of the great final set pieces in a film. Really any baseball being played, but sure. Listen, when I finally went to Fenway last year, I wasn't there for the baseball. I was there for whose car we're going to take, you know? Like, I'm seeing it finally. What I recognized was not, like, the green monster. It was the insights that they're, you know, dodging police officers in. Yeah, the bowels of Fenway. Well, 2011's The Company Men. Yeah. You seen this movie? Yeah, I saw it recently. I think for some draft that we did. I think it was for the Costner. For the Costner Hall of Fame. That's right. Yeah. This is about, I think, a very well-meaning but very stupid movie. Yeah. About executives learning to be real men by working with their hands when they can no longer trade stocks. That's, I mean, in keeping. In keeping with the rest of the types of movies that Costner seeks out. Yeah, it's a post-financial collapse movie that attempts to valorize men who worked on Wall Street. Yeah. And lost their jobs. And, you know, it's not great. 2012 Argo. I think just has to go in, right? Yes. He won the Best Picture Oscar. Yeah, very entertaining movie. Never one of my movies. Really, really watchable. It is watchable. And I remember. I've seen it many times because I've watched it with every member of my family. It kind of, it hits all quadrants. Okay. We went from two to five real quick. Yeah. Because, again, he had a real, because Gone Baby Gone resets everything. He wins Argo. His Best Picture acceptance speech, Marriage is Hard, is also, you know, could go in the extracurricular category. Yes. But this is just like a very convincing, very crowd-pleasing, memorable. Good performances. You know, also a hostage movie, but one that you actually feel tension over, even though. I hadn't thought of that. He went back to the well. Exactly. The hostage well. He went, I mean, listen, animals, they're also like in masks, just like in the town. He goes back to the well with a lot of things in this movie. Yeah. Some thematic recurrences. Yes. You're noticing the motifs in the act like filmography. Yeah, I believe. Very impressive. Yeah, but he wins, he wins another Oscar. So. Okay. Okay, Argo's in. 2012, To the Wonder. Yeah, no. I like that he tried it. I mean, he worked with Terrence Malick. I know, it's cool. I think this movie's pretty good. Okay. I think it's among the most successful of the late period Malick. That's fine. I think it's better than Night of Cups. I think it's better than Song to Song, though Song to Song we should write books about. I think it's a very heartfelt movie about losing, feeling in a relationship, which feels like maybe something that Ben Affleck understands it's it's not it's not an all-time Malick classic but I think it's a very good movie and I respect him for for doing this journey but we can do red for to the wonder runner runner is an utter fiasco can't win them all shockingly bad yeah that's red gone girl is green the most green maybe of all the greens because it's a wonderful movie that is also the perfect text about Ben Affleck and runner runner he plays a man named Ivan block okay and gone girl he plays the immortal Nick Dunn yeah even that well so the opening shot of animals when he's filming the the commercial but it's it starts the camcorder and he's in camcorder frame and you just think right back to the uh the press conference and gone girl so you know he is aware of his own myth yeah as am I back to the well one too many times for sure on this one 2016 Batman versus Superman Dawn of Justice now after gone girl which is a massive hit 400 million dollar movie adaptation of a literary classic this is also a real turning point in movie history I feel that what happens 2015 is Jurassic World for example things shift pretty dramatically in this period away from films like gone girl being able to be super successful and into what I think Ben Affleck to his credit sees happening yeah which is superhero movies he's already tried it once with Daredevil and it didn't work but he's like you know what I'm a dad I want my kids to see me as a hero yeah I want to be Batman I'm going to take on the cape and cowl I'm going to be Bruce Wayne and I'm going to trust Zack Snyder that his vision will work would you be Godzilla to impress Alice of course yeah I mean it's completely relatable it's just the most understandable decision in the world also you know he's he's won an Oscar he's riding high in gone girl which makes a lot of money like there's there's an ego aspect to it of well of sure I'll be Batman I can do anything yeah yeah um and I want to be at the center of movies and this is where the center of movies is right now uh he's he's not good well this is a bad movie he's fine he's a good Bruce Wayne he's a good Bruce Wayne and I I would have loved to have seen him in a different strain of this these stories because he is actually oddly the only Bruce Wayne that we've gotten that is like this because Christian Bale is like American Psycho very slick right Michael Keaton of course is a twitchy and odd and he kind of subverted our expectations this Bruce Wayne is classical he feels right yeah the movies are just so I mean the plotting and story of Batman v Superman is so bad it's red it's so red they wear a lot of vests in this as I recall I remember seeing this at the arc light I walked down from the offices saw it I think with Sam Donsky and it's just like vests beautiful vests that they were that were like too tight so they could you know spring out of them I mean I mean this in their Bruce Wayne and uh Clark Kent lives not as Batman and Superman was this a summer film I don't really remember March yeah wow this was pre-ringer launching yeah March 2016 were we ever so young 2016 Suicide Squad yeah bad that's red red 2016 The Accountant I think possibly green I agree massive hit huge hit pretty cool movie a real performance yes different from anything he had done before I'm not against it I think it is quite possibly just purely green okay I mean I'm like my favorite Ben Affleck action movie but it's not bad it's definitely good and he does you know he has to do a lot of whiteboard writing as well which we always enjoy that yes we always enjoy that okay also I'll just say green for The Accountant live by night red tough sit really really really bad really misconceived yeah it's a real drag and this is a pivotal movie in his career because the movie's very expensive he makes for Warner Brothers it doesn't click yeah and then many years go by before he directs another movie it's a real shame 2017 Justice League that's red yep 2019 Triple Frontier blue okay it's you might not have to do that we might have to green it I mean this is also I think this is a a tough period in Affleck's life more generally I think and you can see that in the screen in Triple Frontier as well so that's always interesting yeah I think we liked it when the Metallica hits you know yeah I've always liked it all right that's great I think we should green it okay we I mean we have to honor our own principles I agree with you this is our show it's our choices Jay and Silent Bob reboot he returns as Holden McNeil Ben Affleck has played Holden McNeil three times in his career uh that's red the last thing he wanted this movie is it also a fiasco this we saw this at Sundance he did this is a movie that has been memory hold yeah D. Reese was she coming off of Pariah no she was coming off of um Mudbound Academy Award nominated Mudbound she has not directed a movie since then this movie is a real shame Ben Affleck and Anne Hathaway and Willem Dafoe in like an international kind of espionage drama and it's a Joan Didion adaptation yes we thought it was just going to be absolute wheelhouse and it just doesn't make sense no it's all about um really the CIA and Central America and a journalist and man it's it's so interesting when a movie like this comes along and just didn't this movie cost a hundred million dollars yeah nobody saw it I mean I think some of that was also COVID it was it was for sure and it didn't make sense but it was February 14th 2020 is when it came out on Netflix and it's just gone forever so the last thing he wanted is red five percent on Rotten Tomatoes five percent well I mean we knew in the room when we saw it yeah that first screening we were just like oh man because you know that's the kind of movie you and I would love to cheer for totally tough one 2020 the way back he's very good in this I think yellow for now and let's revisit because there's really strong performance you know a little bit of a predictable movie a very sad movie this was one of the very last movies I think we talked about in person on the pod yes and one of the last movies I remember seeing in person theaters yeah um Zack Snyder's Justice League we recorded a four and a half hour episode about that movie a watch along in 2021 thumbs down people can check that out it's uh red the last duel hmm he's quite good in this yeah it's very funny it introduces like another phase of of Ben Affleck you know going back to his Chucky roots and being the colorful supporting actor in like a pretty good movie I'm a fan so and letting other people do the heavy serious lifting and just being charming and Ben Affleck and he co-wrote it yeah green I think so great green I don't know how many greens it feels really nice just to be just you know yeah whatever we want I agree with you okay tender bar he's really good it's a great performance yeah this is another movie that I feel not a lot of people saw I saw this movie at a screening at the DGA oh and it was in the latter part of 2021 post vaccine and I remember thinking like hmm something cooking here for old Ben yeah could we get a best supporting actor nomination could would the academy look kindly upon this film the answer is no it didn't happen and people I thought they were going to win I thought they were going to win I thought they were going to win I thought this movie would have gone over well now you know very Long Island coded film um but this book is also big for a lot of people well yeah I mean it's it's written by J.R. Moehringer who has now become the king of ghostwriting world famous ghost writer and what was what was uh what was his last book he just did a huge book after spare the Prince Harry after spare he has one this year what is it uh it's I mean it's I'm I it's Ari Emanuel's book oh that's right yeah yeah yeah okay um anyway tender bar I like it I feel like it's yellow maybe yellow with a future blue status yeah okay uh 2022 deep water unfortunately a red that's a red Adrian line um erotic thriller didn't have a bad time no Ana de Armas Jacob Elordi and Tracy Letts with Ben Affleck this is Amanda tick-tack-toe-toe-toe right and yet it's not good but once again sometimes the movie is just showing you what you want to see and you say thank you Tracy had fun listen I had fun okay uh Jennifer Lopez remember all of the Ana de Armas Ben Affleck Instagram content from this era not really but you remember when Ben Affleck showed up to the protests with the handwritten sign no wow you just you're not paying attention it's okay I am 2022 Jennifer Lopez halftime he plays himself I don't remember him in this Jennifer Lopez documentary we will continue to discuss other halftime is red yeah 2022 clerks three he plays a man named Boston John okay good for him that's red he has appeared in almost every Kevin Smith movie I admire that friendship is very powerful it's beautiful 2023 hypnotic this is a Robert Rodriguez thriller that you and I saw in movie theaters we did it's not going in not going in not very good at all um but I couldn't even tell you the premise it's quite confusing there's a science fiction component to it it had a bracing ending as I recall which we talked about in some depth 2023 air now he directed this movie and he plays quite amusingly Phil Knight in the movie yellow red yellow red you've always been a little more down on this than i have yeah again it's a little i'm not a nike person and i do think that the speech that matt damon gives at the end is is quite good yeah uh bateman he's doing some stuff yeah but you know affleck's just kind of walking around davis she's great but affleck's just directing a nike commercial acting yeah some of the great viola davis phone if you want to yellow it but okay 2023 is the flash that's green um 2024 this is me now loves the flash is red yeah this is me now a love story okay so this is like the extended music video yeah so that is a red that did not really work for me he plays wreckstone slash biker yeah but he shows up at the end to to save her okay um because this is about their love story greatest love story never told is again a fascinating text he's amazing in it you you can feel him both he turns on as a filmmaker and he's like okay if we're gonna do this then i'm gonna be interviewing you as the documentarian like halfway through this i'm gonna be shaping this film and then he's also simultaneously like why are we doing this why am i not in this why am i in this he also has the cameras scene where he just starts explaining lenses to jennifer lopez i mean we don't have to put it in but it's just notable it's tailor-made for a blue for you yeah okay but then i can't give the accountant too the the blue did you see the accountant too jack not yet okay wow i had a busy movie watching weekend okay the account too is terrible it's really terrible but i'm so excited thank you the account is the account too it's not going in yeah i liked that he and burnthal had some fun together yeah they're a little chit chats that that stuff was amusing all in the dog yeah that's all right i whatever it's fine okay count two is red yeah 2026 the rip if this were quentin tarantino's the big picture it would be going in but it's not um i'm i'm not i i'm mixed at best on the rip i know people like it i don't really i haven't revisited it yeah triple frontier though yeah no that's a streaming movie if you've ever seen one 2026 animals is red all right so we have one two three four five six seven eight nine we have nine greens so we can choose one wow why are we not doing dogma well i would do chasing amy over dogma if you if we put dogman then i would put chasey i would i would do chasing chasing amy and i will make dogma my blue okay i'm fine with that is that so no dazed i know that i know that you people know about dazed and confused you know what i'm saying we would do days over the accountant well i know you like to honor the start of the career the last duel is not better than confused okay then take out last duel but is the is dazed and confused more important i guess it's the discovery dazed and confused and chasing amy feels like gilding the lily to me not to me okay because we wouldn't be here doing this episode if it wasn't for dazed and confused and chasing amy okay because you might be here i said okay you might be in an alternate universe with some other guy with dean genesee but you're here with sean fennessy and so when dazed and confused and chasing amy came out can i give you a piece of advice for this podcast no every you can't give me take the win i said yes conversation i don't want your advice i know exactly what i'm doing i'm in complete command right now i've never felt stronger or more sure of myself where did we land you'd like me to read this the hall of fame i think so okay wait let's let's let them finish their yeah because right now there's like a chartreuse kind of an interesting you guys are doing good work okay all right may i now read them do we have 10 would you please sure i don't know if we have 10 okay we're gonna find out are you gonna count i want you to count okay well i can't count and read at the same time let me give you a piece of advice okay dazed and confused chasing amy goodwill hunting armageddon gone baby gone the town argo gone girl the accountant and triple frontier that's 10 two blues what's your blue uh my blue is the greatest love story never told my blue is dogma yeah what a time i feel we've done reasonable work here he means a lot to me i don't know if this hall of fame represents the breadth of what he's accomplished in the in the pop cultural space but i guess it does it has gone girl and it has the greatest love story never told the armageddon director's commentary of course people should listen to that i would encourage people to track down the chasing amy director's commentary hunting you have 30 years of matt and ben that's right so there's um beautiful there's and you have artist equity and everything yeah there's the the david fincher ben affleck uh podcast interview that people should seek out there's ben affleck sitting at business conferences explaining technology to people i i genuinely am enraptured by all of them i would watch him do that with regularity he's an incredible spokesperson he is he is spilling duncan donuts everywhere well sure yeah the memes we didn't do a world most beleaguered man yeah we didn't do you know the balancing the chick-fil-a deliveries living out loud you know i respect it i i really really respect it um we didn't do the back tattoo nope yeah nope okay i wouldn't do that uh but it's pop culturally important no question he's he is singular there's never been anyone like him that's true and that's why we honor him on this day okay how do you feel great it just it feels good to know things you know despite appearances i go through life being like i don't know am i sure about this what's going on not on the subject of ben affleck let me give you a piece of advice i'm never gonna let that go also the goat for refusing to wear a yankees hat and gone girl yeah yeah yeah it's a good bit uh well you must see everything is this friday yeah you must you can see everything you can see everything you must see you can see everything that's the name of our podcast that's the name of the episode um what do we do we're gonna talk about it so we just we just we're just gonna we got it's gonna be we're just gonna talk all about it no it's gonna be spoiler zone so people are we gonna not talk about it well i just brokered a deal with eileen that on thursday yeah i have a screening in the afternoon and that screening is just before she's gonna go see the movie at 3 p.m on thursday so then i'm gonna do i'm gonna pick alice up great dad of the year i can't not see this having it all like she needs she's like doesn't want it but i'm not i'm not valorizing myself i'm just it's the point is is that she doesn't want any news coming in on the movie every conversation i've had as soon as i can i would say like you know but like drop off pick up all the parent like everyone every grown-up i talk to wants to know if i've seen it and then doesn't want to know anything about it and i'm like i'm not saying anything but you do need to go see it as soon as possible in my own home in the booth here we were we have gotten everybody to see it so we don't our team is fully has seen everything so i think that we just we have to treat everybody like adults just as the movie treats everybody like adults okay and if you listen to the podcast without having seen the film then that's on you that's that's what we'll put the disclaimers it'll be there waiting for you once you see it i think that's what we got to do i agree with you that's what we're going to do okay thanks to our producer jack sanders for his work on today's episode thanks to lucas cavanaugh for production support we are talking about you can see everything on friday we'll see you then coca-cola for the big for the small the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimists pessimists for long-distance love for introverts and extroverts the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola for everyone pick up some coca-cola for everyone pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.