The Beginning of REAL UFO Disclosure - Jesse Michels | DEBRIEFED ep. 77

when you've got a job to do lowes knows how to help you keep it moving my lowes pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of two thousand dollars or more plus save time with job site delivery on select purchases not a member join for free today exclusions more terms and restrictions apply can't be combined with any other discount including but not limited to contract and or special pricing loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions details at lowes.com slash terms subject to change propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes this week's guest is none other than the american alchemist himself jesse michaels now wanted to come on here just to set up the way this podcast kind of played out see at the beginning of the podcast jesse and i we talk about president trump's statements in response to former president barack obama saying that aliens are real and it kind of gets us talking about the current state of disclosure will donald trump be the president to disclose that aliens are real what's going to come from this and then somewhere around the one hour mark our friends interrupt the podcast so graciously by informing us that president trump has tweeted this call to action and the fact that he's going to be investigating and looking into ufos aliens extraterrestrials uap etc it was kind of a historic moment and we caught it on video so i thought i'd just come on here to sort of quell any confusion that you might have because we begin the podcast talking about the very thing that ends up happening a little bit later on now jesse also opens up about his relationship with harold malmgren and a really interesting story about the fact that he's going to be investigating and looking into ufos aliens extraterrestrials uap etc it was kind of a historic moment and we caught it on video so i thought i'd just come on here to sort of quell any confusion that you might have because we begin the podcast talking about the very thing that ends up happening a little bit later on now jesse also opens up about his relationship with harold malmgren and a really interesting story that he's never told before so thank you for joining me today and i hope you enjoy the podcast hey what's up um so in 2009 i worked for supported living systems in tucson arizona um i also um so i was asleep at a computer i woke up in the middle of the night the whole place vibrating i was like the night watchman and i looked at my cameras and all the um people that i took care of watched to make sure that like they didn't escape but they always did we're outside looking at the sky i went outside and the entire sky was blacked out and it was like a black box the size of like 20 football fields and the cops came and i made a report and i gave it to supported living systems the next morning it's all logged down in it i have no way of ever reporting this so this is the first time i've heard jesse michaels welcome back to the skiff oh thank you how you doing always great to see you and to be in the skit yeah good to have you man i'm so excited you know you're in town um we just had gerb on the podcast too and we're all hanging out and then we're here to do the montreal show for it's probably nothing which is super exciting can't wait it's gonna be awesome we have some very special guests yeah we can announce it because that'll probably already i'm sure be around but uh george saint pierre yep uh uap gerb and then possibly some drop-ins yeah thinking maybe amar maybe james fox maybe james fox yeah and maybe some tall ass alien looking dudes walking around in top hats but who knows that's that's speculation it is we're not going to go there we're not going to speculate today we're talking about facts only that's right no no zero speculation yeah yeah all facts um all right you know there's there's a few things that i wanted to talk to you about today but one is what's what's your initial gut check reaction to everyone saying trump's gonna disclose ufos i love whatever is going on right now i feel like we're in this like memetic warfare between democrats and republicans and presidents and ex-presidents and it's all around upping the ante vis-a-vis this alien issue and so obama let out a thing you know last week on this podcast or whatever aliens real uh they're real but i haven't seen them in a while they're real but they're real but they're haven't seen them and and and uh they're not being kept in uh what is it area 51 there's no underground uh facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy and they they hid it from the president of the united states what was the first question you wanted answered when you became president um where are the aliens and it was this aliens yeah they're real but area 51 sorry that was my so bad it wasn't horrible i'm editing this so that's great chris oh thank you that's i need to really stop doing like you know he takes himself pretty seriously yeah um he's got obamna all right that's enough there you go yeah um but uh so he obviously that felt very kind of choreographed like it was like he gave himself an out you know afterwards and he was like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do i was talking about the fermi paradox like aliens are of course are real in this very abstract sense yeah but then he also cited like cited area 51 but kind of like forgot about area forgot the name of area 51 forgot the name of area 51 then oddly specific you know denial of like aliens underground at area 51 yeah and and a denial of the fact that there are underground bases at area 51 which you know we're here with uap gerb you know it's a great you know documenter of these deep underground military bases you know yes you have the solder book about deep like that's a thing it's definitely a thing there at area 51 luigi's here as well yeah who's doing the bob movie you know i think he has a lot of amazing evidence around underground passages and the whole place being this mining you know like there being mining shafts there so that that was interesting categorically false and then and then you have his his uh uh dni and his cia director both partaking in a movie where they're implicitly or tacitly age of disclosure endorsing not only ufos being real but you know decades long you know crash retrieval programs and then hints of reverse engineering yeah and specifically clapper mentioning area 51 that's right yeah tracking area 50 ufos at area 51 yeah so you have them doing that and to me it almost felt like a we're gonna get there first obama was gonna get there first but also prompt trump like almost provoke trump and uh you think it was a it was a knowing wittingly sort of like tactic to to get trump to react could be because he wouldn't have he wouldn't have walked it back though the next day would he have well i well i don't know because i think he if you're if you're media savvy which he is right he only walked it back in the comments well you know that the comment isn't going to be as circulated as the initial thing that's true the initial thing got super circulated then the little comment retraction thing only a few people saw everybody talked about and then obama is also producing a doc a documentary on betty and barney hill the first you know very well-known abductees in the u.s in 1961 and has shown i think some long-standing interest he's also discussed the three-body problem at times if you look at his media appearances leading up to that podcast he's dropping hints left and right on colbert he talks about you oh they have full full control over us but uh is that better now it's still not you're horrible but uh james corden and i'm actually being serious here is is that uh there are uh there's footage and records of objects in the skies that we don't know exactly what they are we can't explain uh how they moved their trajectory uh they did not have an easily explainable pattern and so you know i think that we're uh people still take seriously trying to investigate and figure out what that is he says you know there are things in our skies we don't know how to classify he's dropping hints that was i think if you see that out of context oh it's a mistake if you see it in context of his last you know 10 years of comments the aliens won't let it happen you reveal all their secrets they exercise strict control over us now you know there are a lot of people that are going to examine your your facial expressions here he was building up to that and then you know that there's a lot of continuity between the clinton's kind of intelligence apparatus and obama's yeah and all those people are all over the ufo issue in fact podesta was literally uh you know obama's uh chief of staff and uh or maybe it was yeah it was obama's i think chief of staff and and then also obviously uh you know in the clinton white house and i think it was hillary's campaign manager so there's definitely connectivity there loves pizza apparently loves pizza and hot dogs but it's also been grape soda jesus christ but it's also been all over the ufo issue since the 90s and uh is in wiki leaks emails and you know emails with tom belong where yeah there's clearly a history yes for him to play dumb is an insane move it's an insane move but it's a it's also like that's where we're at with the whole political discourse is like it's all it's all it's the worldwide you know wrestling or whatever yeah it's a whole show it's a whole show yeah and the person interviewing him forgive me i don't know about him but he's got like a pretty big following um i guess he's like a political commentator is my best guess i i don't know i don't i didn't look any i didn't look into him at all i was so annoyingly frustrated with no follow-up there it was absurd oh like i mean i'm trying to understand if i'm outside of the ufo space do i even care for a follow-up and i'm like no of course i do of course anyone would care yeah i'm trying to think if it's only my ufo brain being like oh you know why didn't he ask and well if you say they're real you're also not really saying they're real based on some probabilistic drake equation for me paradox thing you're saying they're real yeah and then the natural follow-up question is sir how do you know that literally just so basic or what do you mean like it's a very natural one well i think it i mean that guy um you know he kind of looks like he sells like real estate in west hollywood or something like he's got this like slick sap and he's in this sort of machine of pre-approved questions probably like pre-approved questions for sure like where it's like it's so obvious obama knows what's coming and then he's in that sort of factory you look at his other videos and it's all stuff to kind of drum up the bass on the left wing and i'm not saying that's you know monopolized by the left wing that's a thing on the right wing too it's this machine right and i don't i think you are running a program when you're in that media complex i don't think you're thinking on the fly and i don't think you're thinking about you know ontologically you know deep questions you're not actually interviewing no yeah it's a it's a it's a it's all a staged thing yeah it's like a media train sort of yeah exactly yeah it's a performance and you even see like people like tucker carlson who come from that world who are now i think becoming a little bit more like independent and independent you still see him ask questions in a way where it's like so you're saying you know and it's like you know it's like it's okay it's all good you're not in legacy media anymore it's what are uap you know like these type of questions or like i still get frustrated when i see this on legacy media like how long are we going to beat this horse until we stop like until we move on to the next sort of uh you know layer of the onion well that that's what i find frustrating about the whole political conversation and even the whole thing about like the way that you're dealing with the political people who are into ufo quote-unquote disclosure who are tracking the political conversation in this like hyper vigilant way i understand it for people like david grush and other whistleblowers who are like i went out on a limb and my government is gaslighting me and then simultaneously you have all these people who are like fans of the ufo culture and they're tracking me too but you're tracking the the statements of these you know politicians like they're you're hanging on their every word yeah you know and it's like that's just i think we just got disclosure and it's like what do you mean like what is it the guy just literally like uttered a cryptic sentence that is clearly like meant to be retractable and like be a dog whistle and you're saying that that's disclosure yeah it goes to these other kind of question deeper questions of like even if you were to unveil a craft with like you know heavy elements with weird isotope ratios and like electro-gravitic propulsion and all these other kind of crazy features that would beget a thousand more questions let alone the cryptic high level statement right sure yeah yeah no fair and i think that you know him doing it so sort of flippantly was also very calculated yeah uh as a sort of maybe even a litmus test or some type of hey let's see what happens is it really that bad does it really go viral does it like just as a media training it's totally it's a litmus test as was uh lara trump who is you know trump's daughter-in-law she you know teasing it saying like her doing it was for the clicks i think oh i don't think so at all i think she was clearly you i don't think you say that unless you're coordinating with your family oh i think there might be some truth to it but her saying it next question what do you or the president know about ufos can you share i hear that the president has something in the queue to share with us about all of this now truth be told i'm trying to remember how long ago it was it may have been right after he left office after the first term i remember eric being like all right what like what can you tell us and he was a little uh a little hesitant to give us any real info which makes me think like he's got a lot of info out there and he's waiting for the right time to drop it and maybe this is going to be the time because i keep seeing all these stories about how he's got some like ufo speech that he's got queued up and was for the clicks is what i mean oh i think it's both yeah i think it's totally both yeah i mean i think this whatever happened today with trump you know then that was interesting i think shows that it's you know for both i think they're they're thinking about this sort of stuff what do you say something that got a lot of attention this week barack obama said that aliens are real have you seen any evidence of non-human visitors to earth well he gave class about information he's not supposed to be doing that you know so aliens are real well i don't know if they're real or not i can tell you he gave classified information he's not supposed to be doing that he made him he made a big mistake he took it out of classified information no i don't i don't have an opinion on it i never talk about it a lot of people do a lot of people believe it do you believe it peter well the president can declassify anything that he wants to i may get him out of trouble by declassifying we know illegal aliens yeah illegal only illegals he said well it was he's revealing classified information yes he said that's what he said he said yeah he goes he's revealing classified okay which is amazing because and by the way like you know as much as i just critiqued like people who hang on politicians everywhere sure i'm i'm loving what's happening that he just admitted well i'm loving the ante is being upped on both sides and he did and he totally if you read that statement it's um you're saying that aliens are classified why would aliens ever be classified if they were fake and they weren't real yeah and so and then maybe you could get away with saying well he revealed the you know area 51 underground base thing but he actually said no to that he denied it so shout out to the reporter because the reporter probably knew full well that obama had retracted that statement and sort of walked it back for him not to follow up and be like hey obama said it was real he was rage baiting him yeah a hundred percent in real time and so you know you see like trump's in the back and his spokesperson just kind of like you see carolyn levitt's face she's smiling and her smile is slowly fading because she knows the mountain of you know just incoherent uh people that are going to follow up with her is going to be she's literally the white house press secretary and has to like field all the questions i can't imagine every single one's going to be about this it's gonna be hilarious yeah but you know it's also hilarious that they make it a big joke always and that like it there's something you know what there is there's something about that lends itself to a bit of a comedy scene yeah you have this you have this stage you have this small little gallery of people they're all in their own right witty there's this banter among them there's like this camaraderie because they see each other in the same fucking room every day talking to asking the same questions getting no answers and they're all a bit uh cynical yeah and they all have like this sense of humor so that whole room lends itself to like yeah any of the wisest cracks will get a chuckle from the crowd and so that must be very tempting to save face to fall back on as a crutch in a social environment if you're on stage and things get a little tense you know fall back to a joke obama was a master at that say what you want about his presidency but he was really good at controlling the room and adding levity through you know slight humor but that stage in that room where all these press briefings happen to me is like you'll never hear the word aliens without hearing a chuckle in that room just because of the way that room is and the energy in that room yeah yeah it's like it's like going to the tonight show yeah right and saying do you believe in aliens laugh track please perfectly reasonable question laugh track you know everyone's laughing and so i don't know if we'll ever get a serious conversation about aliens in that room i i want to do a podcast with i would love to talk to him about that and talk to him about his uncle who was at the mit rad lab yeah who was doing and talk to him about his uh time traveling uh seven foot tall son that's right baron the adventures of baron trump baron trump where don is like his you know guide in the time travel adventures or whatever yeah i i wonder if he's read that book that'd be interesting to find out it would he'd be an interesting guest uh the song yeah yeah baron would be cool i bet you baron's into ufos probably or like tangentially yeah i feel like you know or call of duty or call of duty yeah yeah he knows apparently he hooks trump up with like all the podcast circuit stuff oh that's why he did nelk and then logan paul right probably yeah interesting also trump loves the ufc trump loves the ufc which is a weird thing yeah he loves yeah we're gonna have a fight on the one house on the lawn they are yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah cool we're not getting ufos on the white house lawn but we're getting a bunch of dudes fighting each other so hey next best thing well we might be headed towards world war three right now which is you know and so it's like everything with like fuel in it is being sent to the middle east as we speak and so way to bring down the pod i'm sorry man yeah you were on a light mood i was just saying though like you know yeah on a more serious note where these things seem to know where these things seem to like show up and intervene is like moments of high entropy and crisis and actually remote viewers seem to be able to remote view areas of high entropy better as well and so look at where we're you just had ross colthard on and he talked about you know now being a more unstable time than during the cuban missile crisis i don't know if i agree with that per se but we are in a extremely heightened i mean i agree with his general sentiment which is like we're in a multipolar nuclear world that is crumbling as we speak and so i wonder if it's almost like funny and and makes so much sense that just ufo disclosure is happening as a a side comment by these various presidents in the form of podcasts and press conferences as the world uh as ai accelerates the world seems to blow the environment the end of time it feels like climate yeah geopolitical you know tension the epstein files you know yeah yeah which like the the i think the low resolution like dumbness take on it is like it's it's all just a smokescreen you know distraction against the epstein files show me more files which is great or the other way around let's see more files but what about the like deeper thought of like what if there's a convergence between like some of these metaphysical bizarre truths that are at times extremely dark that come around speculation of nhi okay and you know and the spooky science they're in by the way and then all the stuff coming out of the epstein revelations which you know some of these emails are just so weird oh yeah yeah i i you know what if there's just one person like this this small cabal just conjuring all this up from like some some vatican basement or something who knows maybe you know i wouldn't uh i wouldn't put it past them um yeah that's interesting do you think trump will be our disclosure president when you've got a job to do lowes knows how to help you keep it moving milo's pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of two thousand dollars or more plus save time with job site delivery on select purchases not a member join for free today exclusions more terms and restrictions apply can't be combined with any other discount including but not limited to contract and or special pricing loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions details at lowes.com subject to change propel fitness water with gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with gatorade electrolytes i think that he has more of a chance to be there's there's a higher likelihood there than a lot of past presidents i think um biden was never really in charge there was like an apparatus and and it behind him that was in charge so yeah no he's actually still fit to run yeah no they uh after that one debate do you ever see the video of joe biden walking and then the boston dynamics robot walking yeah i'm trying to get over i have they're like new conspiracy he's a skin suit and yeah it's hilarious um but like so there was like he was you know if you're just calling like the deep state like this apparatus of like you know low agency bureaucrats like he was a figurehead that sat atop that yeah trump is uh acts alone and he will do things like despite his cabinet being against him and he will he will go to venezuela and he'll say we're going to take greenland and so if there was ever a guy uh who is kind of a higher volatility but like extremely independent minded and and not kind of caught in these you know the local incentive games or whatever you know really can can rise above that in a way that can be scary but also you know exciting it's him so i think there's a chance there is a chance i'm thinking now how i'd change up my strategy if i was obama instead of being like aliens are real i would be like donald trump will never tell you about aliens yeah but you won't exactly because then he'll go we got aliens a lot of aliens a lot of aliens it'll be like it'll be not those aliens those are taking care of those aliens but you know and obama you want to come here on your spaceship you got to do it the legal way yeah no obama's move should it should be like you know my presidency we made more progress on this on the ufo issue yeah 100 you got to poke a little harder the more you dig into strange history declassified programs and intelligence documents the more aware you become of how much your own digital life is being logged somewhere and at some point i thought i do not love the idea that my internet provider can see and store all of this and that's why i use express vpn it's simple when it's on it encrypts your connection and routes your traffic through their servers so your internet provider cannot see your browsing history and nobody on the same wi-fi network can snoop on what you're doing that matters to me because i travel a lot hotels airports random coffee shops those networks are not secure it takes very little technical knowledge for someone on the same network to intercept data but with express vpn my connection is encrypted and protected and the other thing i use it for is changing my online location with one click you can switch your ip address to another country and suddenly there are documentaries and shows available that were not there before they also redesigned their app recently so everything is faster and cleaner and they now have servers in all 50 u.s states if you care about privacy if you research sensitive topics or if you just do not like the idea of your online life being tracked and logged this is something i genuinely use find out how to get up to four extra months by clicking on the link in the description below that's expressvpn.com area 52 you'll see the link and qr code on the screen right now that's expressvpn.com area 52 to get up to four extra months thanks to our sponsor expressvpn okay but i but i'm hopeful i i also think trump um he's really good at reading the room and understanding what is good for him kind of you know optically and also you know what will galvanize the country or create momentum right right and so i think i think there's a chance you know there is a chance there's definitely a chance and and uh my conviction level grows higher uh it was uh it was pretty low at one point because i was like there's no way they're letting this guy you know and i'm like this guy's not a puppet he is a they're all puppets but he's not the puppet that they're looking for i don't think he's a little too you know too much of a loose cannon uh to to fit in that role but then for me you know i look back at this spielberg thing and i can't shake it and i know it's it's my pet theory and it's a little absurd but also i don't think it's absurd i think spielberg has a history of you know being really close to some uh ufo truths yeah let's say and for all of that to be culminating at the same time uh for the people in congress who you know once this the second they established this new sort of uaptf they're tweeting out the new title of spielberg's movie with like cryptic tweets of like oh just wait you're not ready for this and i'm like ready for what the fucking spielberg movie like what are you talking about yeah and then immediately the this huge flap this flap that goes worldwide it happens in jersey with all these drones and you know who knows what was going on there but immediately after they start filming in jersey yep and i can't help but think somehow that's related to like moving something and that something's going to be in the movie yeah and that that'll be trump's pedestal that they're propping him up for and they're like here here's a here's an alley oop we got this and you're going to come out and spielberg's going to be here and people are going to have shoving their faces full of popcorn and it's going to be the american we're gonna we're gonna have uh stealth bombers fly overhead and maybe unveil the tr3b at the same time and be like we got them aliens are here you know i don't know that's that's my america but i'm canadian so you know i you know that might be right i don't think uh the spielberg camp would be coordinating with trump that would be my guess no unknowingly yeah yeah yeah trump would probably be briefed in the last like few days and then we'd probably you know go out on truth social and like spill the beans prior right that's more of his style but yeah the team working behind it all you know it's in the grand scheme of things if that happened i wouldn't be mad if it if that's how we got disclosure quote-unquote was this film features a real ufo i would i'd be like hats off you're forgiven you know you're forgiven yeah the trillions of dollars forget about it you guys just did the best coolest thing in the world and i'm not gonna lie you guys just did the best coolest thing ever freaking out the entire mainland united states that we were being invaded by you know foreign adversary and there were drones everywhere it's okay yeah but we got john krasinski acting in a ufo or whatever yeah you know is he in the movie maybe i don't know oh he might i think uh well emily blunt is and emily blunt are they oh they're a thing so maybe you might be doing it a little but maybe they're both in it how cool would that be to to find out you you were like in a ufo and you didn't know it that would be insane like that was the set there's like this crashed ufo and they have to act in it and stuff guys this was recovered in a deep sea mission like what they're pulling real bodies out of it you're like wow this is so cool yeah wild and also i mean there's this other um jerry jerry bruckheimer yeah jerry bruckheimer bruckheimer yeah his movie's coming out soon which was that you know people there are whispers that what grosh was a part of uh the consulting yep so that'll be interesting i'm sure a lot of ufo people are also going to be looking at that with a keen eye yeah i mean you've got to especially for that i mean with spielberg we're reading the tea leaves on that movie you have to think that very high fidelity stuff i ideally is going to come out because just knowing dave you know i think he has an extreme attention to detail i do think he wants to get as much of this stuff out as he can so yeah that's a good point it's also interesting to think because spielberg had some pretty heavy hitting consultants for close encounters well he had jock valet he had jalen heineck who's pretty much the go-to guy who is the go-to guy who do you think he used for this movie and sorry yeah jock valet was consultant then francois truffaut played jock yeah so for this i don't know right but he said it's funny he'll answer things like colbert asked him about aliens and he said what if they're not from a distant planet what if they're us from the future coming back to monitor our own civilization wouldn't that make more sense he's been watching the podcasts yeah either that or like the dude has some really good sources et like locking on with like what jake barber experienced that sort of like synchronization of like you know entities or what like you know jordan josek talks about or all these sky watcher psionic assets talk about lock on you know and there's sort of this like harmonization consciousness mind meld phenomena yeah or close encounters of the third kind you know um there is a time travel element where the soldiers walk outside you know or the the two crates with i think let's say trw and skunk works wild so yeah he's he's got to know some stuff back to the future to back to the future producer he's definitely he definitely knows some stuff i mean there there has to be because you you watch i watched you ever see that interview with james cameron and was it uh george romero guillermo del toro i think it was guillermo i think i have where guillermo toro talks about his ufo experience yeah dude and it's it's clear as day you're like oh he experienced something and you can see cameron's it too is kind of interesting because cameron is famously known for making the abyss which you know in the inner circles of the ic apparently that is one of the movies that is closest to the truth other than you know perhaps close encounters yep um which is interesting because it happens also in like the bermuda area you know and that the craft are actually the beings the beings are the craft type deal and like very interesting concepts but yeah hollywood's got their finger on that pulse and probably i mean i i'd have to imagine in some way directed to give us some type of softening yeah for sure on a very small scale even that that can happen also in this distributed loose way by just planting these guys there's a guy named chase brandon who wrote an amazing book i love called cryptos conundrum chase it's a student yeah i bought it because you suggested i haven't read it yet it's really interesting and he said it's i think he quotes francis bacon at the beginning of the book and he says you know um some truths are so strange you have to hide them in fiction and then he goes on to tell this story of this mj12 like majestic 12 like committee essentially forming where beings non-human beings show up to each of them knowing details of their lives that they've never told anybody and coordinating them and then there's this sacred object that's given to them that involves it involves literally like reading timelines and i brought that up in the context of my interview with harold malmgren because the main character in that book is a guy named chalmers who's this mathematical whiz and that committee comes out of the um osa which is an oss offshoot which is pre-cia from 1942 to 1945 in world war ii and chalmers to me reminds me a lot of malmgren because so malmgren was this uh you know jfk lbj nixon and ford advisor who was just this prodigy who was you know one of mcnamara's whiz kids uh so to speak he was one of the you know um kind of earliest uh strategists uh who was kind of plucked and like youngest too he was 27 years old when he was like when he defused the uh curtis lemay bombs away during the cuban missile during the missile crisis pretty wild and helped talk him down so yeah that book is really interesting but that's all to get back to chase brandon who is this hollywood liaison who was clearly kind of seeding stuff and holly and i think he had a project with stanton friedman in hollywood and a lot of other people who were in hollywood who were in hollywood who were in hollywood and a lot of that stuff even jamie chandera was doing stuff and i think there's been a long history of of i think that connectivity if you're one of these agencies you're obviously you know one of your jobs is not only to report on things that are being put out there but it's to control the things that are being put out there that's kind of what they're doing they're not just doing um info collection it's counterintelligence they're you know they have whole departments and so do you ever feel like you're in a situation where you're in a situation where you're in a like during your career as a interviewer and a content creator podcaster or whatever you want to call it um have you ever felt a subtle presence in maybe the guests or maybe the guests that are being suggested to you has that ever obviously it's crossed your mind i know it's crossed mine and anyone who's in this space it's crossed their minds too yeah but have you ever felt a gentle nudge and sometimes it's like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know but sometimes you go oh that might have been them like have you ever felt that i think i've felt it a bunch and it's it's often not gentle it's like more overt and then you have to have kind of like an allergic reaction to that where you're like like what's an example without without giving detail like somebody would tell you something really crazy and then like as like sort of passage material stuff yeah like i was telling you i had um you know i did this interview and the spooky guy showed up to my studio with right in front of these other people and starts talking to telling me he goes you want to know that you know where they capture you know uh experiencers it's a it's a program called star trap and they go to mufon organizations and that's where the it's the honey trap for you know and he's telling me these things like like just like you know right out of the gates and i'm like dude like i don't i don't know you like what take me out to dinner first yeah before you fuck me yeah it's like what is so weird yeah it's so weird uh so certain things like that you're like what's going on and and i think you can do it back is the funny thing where you can say oh i wonder if i can bump up against the contours of what this person actually represents as far as truth seeking and like trigger a thing you know where you send a thing about some you know say they're like trying to steer you away from the science you send something about like you know the towns of brown and anti-gravity stuff and if they're like extremely dogmatically opposed or try to like steer you clear you're like i'm gonna clock that we're getting warmer register that yeah yeah so you gotta do it back to them that's a good point and it's only for your own you know edification to like be able to navigate this fucking spooky hall of mirrors world that we're in yeah i mean i suppose the same could be said for like the biggest debunkers you could just look at what they debunk the the most furiously and be like oh yeah yeah that's probably real totally or something there is very sensitive that's right you know and so yeah or or the debunk is uh it's a mystery it's too easy of a debunk too easy so it's like a layup yeah yeah but then that you know that always points me back to bob lazar because the most respected quote-unquote people who have a voice and who have something to say about this topic deny bob and yet he's said some of the most like credible stuff like in terms of like his you know he's predicted things i'm not talking about element 115 like everybody thinks it's not that but he's you know the smaller details time and time again you go oh bob was right bob was right bob was right and for for people to just flat out deny him i mean for me that's one of those topics that's one of those litmus tests that you go how do you feel about bob and if they go you know i don't got to read on him he sounds truthful then i'm like okay but if they go no he's a bullshit or he's a conner artist i go oh that's a red flag for me it's a total red flag well it's also a red flag if you because if they if they bring up the kind of um you know basic you know objections i think that's actually reasonable sure yeah but then if you come back at them with rebuttals good rebuttals and then they're not even processing that you're like okay what's the undetectable dark matter that is sort of motivating them but i think after luigi's amazing movie s4 uh it's gonna be to me it's gonna be very very hard to argue that he was not an employee at area 51 at s4 yeah you can then debate you know the science of the craft and what the craft was and was he seeing what that i think is more reasonable yeah the the other stuff like just just saying that he wasn't there i think is actually insane like you all after this movie i think well i think saying that he's lying is insane that's my take oh i agree too i agree he's not yeah i flat i don't think he's lying in fact i would i would say he's not lying yeah but you you were also saying that from the vantage point of you've met him sure yep and i do think that gives you kind of and yes you know but to to call him a liar for lying sake is is an insane claim um to question the tech is fine he questions it too like there's there's no debunk there either when you're like oh you know you're explaining it wrong it's like i don't know shit doesn't exist what do you want how do you want me to explain he's not even convinced it's gravity like he's he's like clearly open-minded to whatever whatever it is and very curious about it yeah and i i i had the uh you know surreal experience of meeting him recently at our show in austin and brought up a couple of those things where you know it's kind of what i described where it's like i want to poke at the edges and he definitely satisfied me as far also the soft signals of being nonchalant not having anything to prove i felt dan sherman who went on my podcast was very similar yes where he was just like like i would bring up stuff that other people corroborated around his story like this guy noah roddick who did a lot of stuff like that and i would bring up stuff that other people did this foyer request around project preserved destiny which was only a program associated with his book above black which he sent to the air force and they forwarded it to the nsa implying that it's a real program under the purview of the nsa who cited national security afterwards and you know said we can neither confirm nor deny or whatever and i brought this up to to sherman he was like oh yeah cool like he didn't he didn't go you know if i think if you were lying you'd be like see you would extend it uh that's that's another thing that i think is really interesting another great tell too is that when someone's uh telling the truth they they won't extrapolate they won't extend anything uh they'll give you very short answers and bob he's a man a few words yeah you talk to him and you're like hey what about have you ever thought of that he goes i don't know i never thought that's like the extent of what you're going to get out of him like you have to like you got to pull information out of him right but he's he's not one to go on a riff and that and he's not speculating he doesn't care to he hates it he doesn't like being put in a position that he has to speculate he makes him uncomfortable it's like all of these soft tells like you said are are really help you convince convince you that you're like oh nice he's telling the truth whatever that truth is i don't i don't know that to be the truth of the universe yeah but i know that what he was shown that's what he's telling me i wonder if you were to pull you know how long it's almost been 40 years since he came out i wonder if you were to pull all of the private interactions that he's like all the people who've had private interactions with him since then and you were like because i'm sure they all bring it up right that's what he's known for he's like this walking advertisement for this reverse engineering program so you if you were to pull them and be like what do you think about his like authenticity i'm sure it would be like 99 yeah like he was just a dude you know it was amazing you know yeah my buddy who reads body language yeah yeah um there's two things he will not do on camera is uh the movement moon landing um press conference and bob lazar i so many questions there well i guess why both so the moon landing yeah because he it's so blatantly obvious that something's up thank you it's so obvious so he won't do it because it's a sacred cow of like american history or whatever no he's he's canadian um so then what he doesn't want to have to deal with the fallout yeah of his audit because he's he's a like big skeptic of everything he's a mentalist friend of mine he's he's skeptical on most things like 99 of things and he's finally coming around to ufos because he uh you know he read grush's body language i think i saw this blue yeah exactly he's done he's done a few of them and he's really good at it yep um but he won't do bob yep and he told me uh he did actually do bob on patreon we have a little half episode i was like you're gonna do it on the patreon and i had him do it so we have this head tilt with a with an eyebrow flash is it just a one-sided mouth that does this like a quick this look man this is what i'm telling you like this is what does that mean okay so so the the contempt looks like that contempt looks one side of your mouth going like this so contempt is uh when you're looking down on something or judging something so but that's not it doesn't make sense in this it doesn't make sense uh very okay there's something there it's called an exclusion qualifier everybody i've run into was very positive so there might have been some negative there might have been some negative he's aware of but exclusion qualifiers is like when you ask me a question and i focus in on part of the answer so by saying something like basically or uh essentially or uh or literally like he just did to say everybody i've run into was very positive so that's listen that's as close as i could come to being like there's something that's being concealed okay so if the people you ran into were positive who is it but the whole time he was like yeah i with bob it's interesting because he says his his facial expression doesn't match what he's saying and it's inconsistent and that usually is the tell of someone who has like uh maybe some type of like autism or like not full-fledged but like um just a little more sort of i guess left-brained or yeah um and and just analytical and sort of analyzing things in a different way so he's not really uh using any emotion when he speaks and so as you can't really read him and that coupled with the fact that he doesn't think he's lying and you know and he just goes like yeah but he also he did read travis walton and he's like whatever this guy's saying uh put him in a hollywood movie if he's lying whoa yeah wild he's like definitely definitely traumatic experience for this guy yeah yeah yeah but yeah i won't do bob because he's like hey you know and he's he's a big skeptic but he just won't do him but he also basically believes the story but then he also says that he's lying and he's like yeah i'm not lying i'm not lying i'm not lying i'm not i don't think i don't think he's comfortable i don't want to speak for him but i don't think he's comfortable in believing okay interesting i think it rubs up you know that rubs a skeptic around well he should he should do the the neil armstrong press conference i don't know why he won't do that yeah that's i mean at this point everything's unraveling because it's so obvious yes the mainstream narrative of everything is like you have pizza gators being vindicated so just yeah but do it i think the moon landing stuff is touchy because it's sort of one dimension sort of removed from flat earth is moon landing deniers and it gets it gets murky there because it's not exactly denying the moon landing it's denying perhaps uh aspects of the moon landing that were presented to us yeah do you know what i mean and questioning that during a time where heightened tensions with russia and there was a race and all these things so there is grounds to question a phone call from a lander who's like i don't know what to do with this i don't know what to do with this there's a lot there's a lot of interesting stuff absolutely but i do think there's an interesting midpoint too that is not we fake the moon landing but you know it's also not that the prima facie story is is only real and it involves ufos right and if we now have beatrice vioreal who's a stockholm university phd in physics or in astrophysics rather and she has done this amazing study of these plates that are in the moon landing and she's done this amazing study of these plates that are in the moon landing and she's done this amazing study of these plates that are in the palomar observatory which was one of the most prominent in use observatories in the 40s and 50s from 1949 to 1957 sputnik was not a thing until 1957 no satellites up in space and she has 10 to 15 000 a year roughly trans of these transients these light reflecting objects which are mirror-like metallic metallic and by the way seem to uh seem to be flat seem to be flat and um are also camping out uh you know predominantly the the transients where the sun is facing the earth so there's a drop off in the earth's shadow which you would expect if it were a real object and not a chemical defect or a stain or some issue with the plates which is what a lot of the detractors might say exactly because you'll see that same reflection in the darkness yeah you have intelligent plate defects that are playing favor it makes literally no sense if the uap ufo whatever they were those craft those transients were to stay in the shadows we wouldn't be having this conversation we wouldn't be having this conversation which is so wild yes like you know you wonder if maybe they knew that but you also wondered then if you are traveling out of space so these are roughly in geo i think it's like 35 000 kilometers plus in in space but still in earth's orbit and if you're traveling into deep space you might encounter some of these objects if they're really showing up that many times that's a pretty remarkable yeah you know number not to mention going back to harold malmgren he literally talks about bluegill triple prime which occurred actually i believe it was uh it was october of 1963 i think it was around the cuban missile crisis and um it was uh johnston atoll in the high altitude nuclear tests was to rip a hole in the Van Allen belt, which is essentially the Earth's magnetosphere, which guards us from neutron bombardment and solar radiation. And so what happens when you poke a hole in the magnetosphere of the Earth? What comes out? UFOs that Harold Malmgren held in his hands. Lawrence Preston Geis, who's Jeff Bezos' maternal grandfather, crazy fact, who was head of the Atomic Energy Commission, Albuquerque branch, literally hands to Malmgren and he holds the UFO in his hand. So if that's what's coming out, and you have other, by the way, people coming out around the Starfish Prime series saying that they've seen stuff. There's this guy, David Noble White Crow, who saw something. In fact, Bob Jacobs, who has a famous story in 1964 when he stationed at Vandenberg Air Force Base, was also stationed at the Marshall Islands during those tests. And there was all- I didn't know that. Yes. And I have them on video saying that there was a rumor that things were, were being shot out of the sky. And he said that UFOs were being used as a cover for something else at the time. But then you kind of quiz him on those things and he's like, I have no idea. I don't know. So it's like, so even like the water cooler talk was that UFOs were like appearing around this stuff. Not to mention there is a FOIA request to the NNSA, the National Nuclear Security Administration, saying, I want all of the records around UAPs, UAVs, UFOs, literally every acronym related to UFO around the Starfish Prime series. And he said, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. And they say, we cannot, UFOB is exact. They say, we cannot get into this. The responsive records have been sent to the relevant subject matter expert, which is not a normal, neither confirm nor deny. It's saying there are responsive records. When you've got a job to do, Lowe's knows how to help you keep it moving. Milo's Pro Rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2,000. Plus, save time with job site delivery on select purchases. Not a member? Join for free today. Exclusions, more terms, and restrictions apply. Can't be combined with any other discount, including but not limited to contract and or special pricing. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. Details at lowes.com slash terms. Subject to change. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What? Propel's you. Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. But they're going to someone specifically. With those acronyms on them. So you get into these trippy going back to the moon landing thing. Then you have, you know, possible audio that's a little weird. You have the Gemini missions where some stuff might have occurred, an electromagnetic outage. And so. A lot of audio, actually. There's a lot of audio of like astronauts throughout the years. And astronauts coming back from space and being like, I saw a giant snake or like whatever. Totally. You know, there's a lot of Gordon Cooper, you know, take that for whatever that's for. But that guy drones on and on about UFOs. And he was the first guy to spend a lot of time in Earth's orbit. He didn't go to the moon, but he spent, you know, in his Mercury missions. Yeah. Yeah. He talks about Mars, talks about, yeah. So the point is you have this really interesting fact pattern. And then you have this, you know, debrief press conference of these three guys that look like they're in a hostage video. And it looks like if you do the before and after this, like these studly American heroes and like these then turned out to be alcoholics and like depressed alcoholics who make all sorts of weird cryptic statements constantly. I mean, Buzz Aldrin is just like he was hit. Every one of his interviews is gold. Little, little girl asked him, did we go to the movie? Well, we didn't lie to her. It's either that or him getting triggered and punching Bart Cybrell in the face. It's one or the other. It's like I'm sure I blame him for that. I'm sure your body language guy, if he went through his whole fact pattern, if he looked through the entire fact pattern, he'd be like, that guy's hiding something. And then, by the way, apparently he was a pilot in World War Two, Buzz Aldrin. And I think he saw a UFO. According to his sister, he saw a UFO, I think, you know, around Japan. And James Fox chased him around the world for a year and almost interviewed him in Monte Carlo in Monaco. And Buzz Aldrin about UFOs, obviously, because James Fox and Buzz Aldrin goes, what would my testimony do? Which is to me, it's like, obviously, you know something about UFOs. And then all these astronauts sign NDAs. You have Tim Taylor's NASA mission controller who talks about, you know, astronauts seeing stuff in space. You have Dr. E.O. Whiteley, who is the goddaughter of Leonov, who is one of the fathers of the Russian rocketry program. And she says she's like, you know, a psychologist for a lot of these high performing astronauts and they all see stuff. So it's again, it's like so much smoke. There's no fire, but so much smoke. And, you know, in a few weeks after the, you know, the Epstein revelations, also so much smoke. But, you know, we've been gaslit for so long. That's true. Yeah. Everybody is getting their conspiracy. Conspiracy theory. You know, all the conspiracy theories are turning out to be true, except for Flat Earth. Flat Earthers got it really rough this time around. There's like everyone, every single one. Like, where's our files? What about the dome? Really? It's not real. Yeah. Like, sorry. Yeah. All of them. Every single one. Chupacabra, all of them, you know, but not that. Sorry. Yeah. Poor them. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. You're really, you're really like bullish on the moon stuff. I'm bullish on there being more to the story and there being some optical management around it. I'm not bullish on like us definitely not having gone to the moon. All right. Trillion dollar budget. What one test would you do to sort of get more information from the moon? It's such an interesting question. I mean. Within our capability. Hmm. I'd put it into going back to the moon because look at what SpaceX is spending currently. Do you know, like, so Starship is there, you know, it's like 150, 200 ton payload capacity rocket and it's twice the size of the Saturn rockets and what it has to do to go to the moon. And there's even a Wernher von Braun speech about this from the fifties being like, we need two stages to get to the moon. Yeah. And so what we have to do with Starship. That was one of Bert's like big sort of claims. Which is why we never went. Bart's debunks have issues too. And like, so again, I don't want to like conclusively say that we haven't gone to the moon, but it seems awfully hard for something that we handily did. And then there's neutron. But, you know, once you, once you get outside of the Van Allen radiation belt, you're completely bombarded with neutrons. Like it's, it's, you know, the cosmic radiation is extremely high and hard to withstand. So I guess the, the easy, the kind of dumb, you know, answer to your question is like, I would try to recreate it. Like with current rocket technology and, and then, and then again, I think that the midpoint maybe, maybe more realistic conspiracy is okay. Maybe you do end up going to the moon, but maybe you see some really interesting shit along the way. Yeah, that's probably, that's probably true. Probably. Yeah. You probably don't even have to leave the planet to like start seeing some trippy stuff. I think as soon as you get to like a threshold, you're probably experiencing some stuff. And not only are you seeing, you know, probably like plasma beings. And all sorts of other like wild and trippy, you know, entities, you're probably going through this crazy ontological shift that so many astronauts have had having this perspective from earth being, you know, what is it called? The perspective effect, the overview effect. Yeah. Interesting about space and its effect on consciousness. If you take some of the parapsychology stuff at face value and the idea that we're not just, you know, in this kind of, you know, floating through Cartesian space, there's some sort of like interaction between mind and matter. Of course. And, and, and the weightlessness is probably plays a big factor into, you know, some of that too. You, you feel this as well when you're doing like sound deprivation tanks. Um, you're feeling this feeling of weightlessness and, and that feeling. Feeling is actually, uh, something that anchors you to reality being full of weight, like feeling your weight on a bed, feeling your weight while you're walking. These things anchor you here. And so the less senses you have that anchors you here, I think probably the easier it is to like have these out of body astral projection experiences. John Lilly, you know, CIA guy who writes about human programming and metaprogramming literally invented the isolation tank to essentially mimic weightlessness and ends up speaking to this solid. State entity SSI. And it says, you know, it needs more compute or something or Silicon to like manifest itself. And then you have to ask if he's sort of summoning AI and early version. Yeah. You shouldn't have done the oxygen deprivation tank. Uh, yeah, that's right. He was doing ketamine and all this crazy shit, but, but, but, um, you have Werner von Braun literally on record telling Edgar Mitchell, uh, or I don't want to say on record apocryphal story, but apocryphal story that seems somewhat corroborated. But he's encouraging Edgar Mitchell to do like the kind of J.B. Ryan parapsychology pick the card experiment in space, implying that not only is the overview effect merely a shift in perspective. but that it actually probably you know going into space might affect you somehow mentally on some more fundamental level also physiologically like there are there are proven changes if i'm not mistaken to the body once you go up into space like yeah these weird things that they can't account for and i might be you know sort of speaking out of my ass here but uh there were things that they measured that that didn't really line up with leaving space and it's as if your body knew yep you were in space yes and and you literally need to take a human resonance machine up with you in space or else your body starts to kind of malfunction yeah and that that goes to like anchoring yourself it does yeah but it also goes toward it's probably deeper than that like if you think about biological morphology just you know humans and animals like if you put someone in a faraday chamber and they grow up they're not going to grow normally like you put it you can literally do an experiment where you put a frog embryo in a faraday chamber and it's not going to grow normally put it next to a wi-fi router or like near chernobyl and it's going to be you know it's too much radiation so there is a sweet spot of ultraviolet radiation that peaks through the magnetosphere and then the schumann resonance of the earth which allows for this anthropic principle driven it's perfect perfect petri dish that we're in right now and so you have to ask is that going on on a level beyond biology that's obviously going on on the biological level with the schumann resonance thing but then is there something actually extremely ontologically shocking literally about going into space also you know going back to this sort of these people look like they've experienced trauma buzz aldrin neil armstrong they're coming back to me it looks like they saw some shit they probably saw like to me that's the face of like you get to the moon and there's like already people there and they're like all right you made it now turn the fuck around and these people don't look like us and they're like 10 feet tall and they have saucers and they're all wearing suits and you're like okay and you go back and then that's the face i would have if i saw that i just interviewed a guy who said he was like i think there was a story that someone overheard neil armstrong talking to someone in dc and neil armstrong said to them we went to the moon we we met beings up there and they said you know after the what was it like six missions or whatever it was like you can't come back you can't come back i heard that too i want that story to be true so bad you know i want there to be a recording was there a recording and i don't know if i'm this is like real or some hoax but wasn't there a recording about like oh my god they're here yeah but i don't know how i don't know i want that to be real so bad yeah i don't when i heard that too i was like everybody should know this or it's bogus or it's bogus yeah but man that'd be cool yeah it would be cool be interesting yeah i like that that big test they did where they bombed the moon and it rang like a bell for a few hours yeah and i was skeptical about that too and then i looked in i was like oh no they did no no that's literally a fact yeah it's literally a fact i was like whoa and the craters are all the same depth apparently they i think they they didn't bomb it i think they crashed the booster right yeah of the i think it was like uh apollo 11 was like you know just viewing that it might be sort of you know somewhat hollow right and then apollo 12 crashing the booster and then and then i put they they put seismometers there and they were like it rang like a bell and then you have i think his name is gordon mcdonald who is eisenhower's chief space advisor saying the only way in which the moon makes sense is if it's somewhat hollow and cavernous right which is trippy and then you there's so much yeah you wonder you know you wonder is the moon brought here yeah was it geo-engineered why is it tidal locked and we never see the dark side you have neil armstrong's second expedition is in 1975 to this quote-unquote teos cave where this the lore is there's this library of alien metallic artifacts and there's this cave system at the edge of the of ecuador and in the amazon and or sorry at the edge of the amazon in ecuador and neil armstrong and neil armstrong brings a bbc film crew to go look into you know this thing and it's so you have enough conviction that there could be a there there that you want to look into this why would you ever do that if you didn't have some of the information that you some conviction maybe from prior experience sure yeah and you know having somebody from the navy uh do that you're like oh it's interesting having somebody from you know the army you're like oh that's interesting having an astronaut do it you go wait a second yeah what do you know what do you know you know yeah astronauts do anything you're like why are you doing that yeah and then you gave that speech of like you know uh what is it one of if you can remove one of truth's protected layers or whatever and then you gave that speech of like you know uh what is it one of if you can remove one of truth's protected layers or whatever very ominous very ominous and feels coded you know a lot of a lot of those speeches feel coded the uh i mean what is it the the eisenhower the famous eisenhower speech also um nixon or reagan i think you would tell me was it reagan the un speech is that reagan or nixon which one um you know if we're uh oh it's reagan if we're yeah if we're facing an extraterrestrial threat yes um yeah all those speeches you put them together and you're like yeah i don't know if we're facing an extraterrestrial threat yes um yeah all those speeches you put them together and you're like yeah i don't know if we're facing an extraterrestrial threat yes um yeah all those speeches you put them together and you're like yeah i don't know if we're some plain sight what's going on no and then you have um stephen spielberg going back to him screening et in the white house and steve and and steven spielberg says in an interview reagan faced all these national security advisors in the room and said all of you know that what is on that screen is absolutely real or some of you in this room know that yeah and he just stood up and he looked around the room almost like it was doing a head count and he said i want to thank you for bringing et to the white house we really enjoyed it and i think it's going to be a really good movie and then he looked around the room he said and there are a number of people in this room who know that everything on that screen is absolutely true and he said it without smiling um um but he but but he said that and everybody laughed by the way the whole room laughed because he presented it like a joke but he wasn't smiling as he said it and it's like come on you give me a break there's gorbachev you know who obviously you know oversaw that you know his first first you know president after you know the uh soviet union fell he i think is on record i think it's an interview with charlie rose where he talks about some un event where he's sitting next to reagan and reagan literally leans over and he goes um you know uh mr president would you join forces with us in the event that there were an alien threat and he goes he's like freaked out and he goes of course mr president and then the the event just like you know starts well so you have like so many of these like apocryphal stories and i don't know i mean that's not even apocryphal that is literally gorbachev saying that and then i literally just interviewed a guy who's president of a russian republic that borders dagestan kalmykia 300 000 people shout out kalmykia kirsan ilium zinov who is also president of the world chess federation that's right and he debriefed with gorbachev and gorbachev brought kissinger and he said it seemed like kissinger knew all about this whole topic and uap gerb we've all uncovered all sorts of interesting stuff around kissinger you know being involved in this sort of topic so then you you have this like he doesn't know the research we're doing he doesn't you know kirsan ilium zinov isn't like tracking american podcast media he just happened to drop a name that was really relevant that was extremely relevant yeah it's kind of interesting oh man yep how long do you think we're gonna have to fight this fight for before we get some answers i i feel do you think do you think you'll get it before like do you obviously there's this hubbub of 2027 2034 all these different dates do you have a timeline do you think like if i don't get it by x i'm just i'm done with this or do you think a lot do you think it's imminent do you think it's i i don't like to make my interest in this stuff contingent on any revelation from any authority figure it's sort of like literally antithetical to the search itself but i mean at what point do you just go like just you know something's got to give yeah i mean look my hope is i will not have like left like a more like you know prestigious job in venture capital to like start a youtube channel on something that will remain fringe forever i would love to see this accepted in the mainstream i think that would be absolutely amazing and i would have expressed more pessimism six months ago today really today trump literally just said something about this topic and literally like it you know implicitly said that aliens are classified and obama let out classified info by talking about them and so uh do i see that like ramping up like possibly i think that's extremely interesting and then as things get kind of scarier on like a geopolitical level i do see this being like not only like is the intervention like possibly more imminent but uh you know the military industrial complex which has kind of held this so tightly a they probably need to let it out for cynical reasons because they're like this stuff we've obviously been trying to like weaponize it for so long and nobody knows what this you know we don't we don't know how we have this hasn't been as functioning of a program it's not it's not the manhattan project 2.0 anymore like the best and brightest physicists aren't on this stuff anymore so like they'll start to talk about it then yeah when you've got a job to do lowes knows how to help you keep it moving milo's pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders through a quote of $2,000 or more. Not a member? Join for free today. Subject to change. Propel hydrates better than water. To help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Okay, breaking tweet right now. Donald J. Trump. We'll be talking about true social recently. And we're just getting this now. This is live. Based on the tremendous interest shown, I will be directing the Secretary of War and other relevant departments and agencies. To begin the process of identifying and releasing government files to alien and extraterrestrial life, unidentified aerial phenomena, and unidentified flying objects, UFOs, and any and all other information connected to these highly complex, but extremely, extremely interesting and important matters. God bless America. I just got the chills. Me too. That is insane. We were just talking about this, this whole. We have. We have. We have UAP, GERB, and come say hi. UAP, GERB, and Luigi. This is breaking news, dude. I thought you guys had to go or something. It was like we're reading it and, you know. Oh my God. Dude, when did you tweet this? About 20 minutes ago. Let's fucking go. Dude, that's wild. We're literally talking about this. This is insane. We were literally just being like, we hope we're not, you know, we're not going to be marginalized forever. I literally just asked you. I was like, you know, why would like, oh, what, what last, is Trump the guy? Like, that's all we talked about pretty much other than the moon stuff. I want to cry. I'm so pumped. Dude, I'm going to read this one more time. Based on the tremendous interest shown, I will be directing the secretary of war. Pete, Pete Hagseth basically runs the DOD. Yes, he says. The secretary. Yeah. And other relevant departments in Asia. And other relevant agencies to begin the process of identifying and releasing government files related to alien and extraterrestrial life. He's being crystal clear. Let's fucking go. Unidentified aerial phenomena, UAP and unidentified flying objects, UFOs. He didn't leave anything out. No, he was extremely. And you're not going to take that back. You cannot put. There's no running that back. Holy shit, guys. Dude, do we just get some type? Do we get some type of like beginning of disclosure? This is epic. Yeah. Is this happening? This. There is no going back from this as far as the questions that are going to be asked by everyone going forward. And I think it's impossible to stop that train. The only thing that's going to snowball. They could come out with something that denies it. But I doubt that. But even if they tried to do that, that is such a. There's no denying that. That is. I mean, that is like a disclosure statement. Well, it's it's it's what's going to lead to disclosure. Thank you. He literally says, I'm directing the secretary of war and all other relevant departments and agencies to basically look into and reveal and everything we know about aliens. Oh, my God. Fuck, dude. The shit show that is happening underground somewhere in the desert is probably insane right now. Yeah. You got people throwing tarps over Tic Tacs. We got people. Yeah. This is probably. Oh, my God. This is chaotic. This is chaotic. And it's epic. Holy cow. I'm so happy. And honestly, there's a little part of you feel a little vindicated. Just all the conversations that we've just know, but just this conversation particularly. Well, this is wild. We were just talking about this crazy synchronicity. We can talk about anything. I know. And we and normally I wouldn't even get into politics that much because I'm like, OK, I don't care. I don't care. I know. Whatever. And for some reason, I felt really compelled today. I did, too. To talk about Obama, Trump. And usually I don't care like what they say. Yeah. Wild. It's wild. And I think you got to rush deliver this podcast, man. Damn. I got Ross coming out tomorrow. We'll do that. I don't know. Whenever you want. Yeah. But this is crazy. Might have to just put this out after tomorrow. I don't know, man. It's real. Live reaction to Donald Trump. Getting ready to go. Ready for disclosure. It's taking me everything not to grab my phone and scroll through Twitter right now. I know. It must be. Dude, all the all the skeptics. Oh, I mean, both of our phones must be just blown up. For sure. And Luigi and you appear like I was here and I was here. We're all the token like, you know, UFO friends of like all of our people. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Brigham just text me the White House. Dude, the White House tweeted this fucking a. This is unbelievable. Unbelievable. That's crazy. That's crazy. I I'm dude. I want to I want to scroll for 10 minutes and come back into this pod and see like I'm down. I want to see what people are saying. We can do that. All right. Let's do that. All right. When you work the way I do, you don't really log off. You edit late. You research late. And somewhere in there, you realize you haven't eaten anything real. And that used to mean random takeout or standing in the kitchen, staring at the fridge like it was going to give me answers. But now I use HelloFresh, the box shows up and ingredients are pre portioned. The recipe card walks you through it. And about 30 minutes later, dinner's done. No grocery runs, no overthinking. They've got over 100 recipes every week. Steak, seafood at no extra cost, 35 plus high protein options, Mediterranean and GLP, one friendly meals, two and the ingredients, sustainably sourced seafood, antibiotic free chicken and seasonal produce that actually tastes like something. It just removes the friction and I can focus on the work and still eat well. And today I've made myself this smoky Chipotle chicken sandwich when I was just about to default to junk food. I use this and you should too. Go to HelloFresh.com/Area5210FM to get ten free meals plus a free swilling knife. That's $144.99 value on your third box. Offer valid while supplies last. Free meals applied at discount on first box. New subscribers only and varies by plan. Again, that's HelloFresh.com/Area5210FM. It's one less mystery to solve at the end of the night. Now, if you'll excuse me. Thank you. HelloFresh. Now back to the video. Okay, pretty insane. Insane. So we had to take a break and just kind of soak in this moment. We held a Twitter spaces, which never do this. I've done it once. Jess, I don't think you've ever done it and we just want to kind of get the reaction and the gestalt of all the people sort of feeling the feelings that we're feeling right now and, you know, I'll let you I'll let you speak to it. There was there was obviously a lot of, you know, initial knee jerk. This is an Epstein cover, which is to be expected, but, you know, there were some great conversations that came with that. You want to you want to touch on that a little bit? Yeah, I think we landed on. Yes. The motives of the thing might be cynical, but the thing being true or false is completely orthogonal and separate to the motives possibly, you know, involving distracting from other things. Absolutely. And the nature of reality is on the line. Yeah. Right. So both are extremely important. We shouldn't let up on the Epstein stuff. But I think it's actually interesting, like in that it's somewhat analogous where. As much as there are still more files to come out, they've probably been sanitized, you know, this administration promised transparency around the issue and in some ways they've been wrestled to the ground on it like it's, you know, it was this initial like we're going to get transparency on it and then it was like, you know, cash Patel making some denials and those is that and then Pam Bondi getting dragged through the mud and then, you know, a lot of redactions, but the files are coming slowly coming out due to mace. Yeah. And Massey and a lot of these people. And I think there is almost no chance after a tweet that is this declarative about inquiring into this stuff, which inquiring into it, saying even, you know, it like that you're implying that there is a there there. And it's funny to see my most like kind of rationalist skeptic friends text me being like, I wonder if they find anything. It's like, dude, I've like literally like, like based your DC, like, like, yeah, I don't know. Probably once a year for the past three or four years. I fucking hate it. I find everybody duplicitous there. But every time you like meet with people around that area, they it's an open secret, like, which is funny to see, like, you know, so I still think there's this consensus like lag where like they just haven't quite caught up. And I think this statement from Trump where there's no chance he's going to like it's a can of worms. It's a can of worms. You open up a can where you can't put the cat back in the bag. and it just increases the surface area of, you know say he retracts it immediately don't matter four or five fold and then if he doesn't and they find anything it's a hundred fold and it's like it becomes taught in in mainstream academia and it's it's it's just it's the beginning of infinity on the topic yeah yeah well said i also think that there's an interesting take here because a lot of people's skepticism isn't necessarily about the ufo topic you know luigi had mentioned something interesting too is that this is quite unique in that barack obama actually said aliens are real which gets the democrats on that side too so it it became this sort of bipartisan argument about about aliens which is quite interesting how it started um but then at the other end you have people who generally hate everything that trump says right and they have the reasons and that's totally fine but even the people who hate trump and who think that oh this is just you know this is just him you know this is just him you know this is just him you know this is right and they have the reasons and that's totally fine but even the people who hate trump and who think that oh this is just him trying to get away because they got some dirt on him about epstein which is probably you know likely it's very likely um that being said it almost acts as a sort of almost like a a small dose of ontological truth where they don't have to swallow the full pill a lot of people who've been following um trump really closely are probably i'm guessing because this is more of like it's become unfortunately more of like a republican thing especially within congress and and uh you sort of you know the arguments online and whatever but it's kind of both side a lot of the disclosure push over the last 10 years has come from i i i agree i only mean i only mean recently sure and but the people who are you know completely against anything that trump says now they have to sort of subliminally swallow this pill right that okay let's say it is all epstein stuff you're still being told the president's looking into aliens there's no hiding from that statement and so it acts as like a soft push ontologically i i think and so almost a net positive for everyone because just getting that truth from a uh a president you love and admire might be a lot right if obama had this yeah flip flip the script a little bit it's a few years ago obama comes out and says due to popular demand i'm looking into aliens and we're going to find aliens and he says it unironically and not as a joke or as a snarky comment on a on a podcast or a you know a late night show but he says it as a real like he tweets it out or whatever that might be shocking to a lot of people who follow him not so shocking if trump tweets it because he tweets a lot of wild shit but for the people who don't want to believe or don't really care for trump now they're forced to kind of have to swallow that in a way that might be a little healthier instead of just getting it all at once too so i don't know maybe an interesting take there but trump say what you will about the guy but like he acts on instinct he shoots by the hip and he is not the embodiment of the bureaucracy which a lot of other presidents seem to be like this outgrowth of these you know and then you get this like kind of you get these statements like you know you're you're actually the mayor you're not like this you know world dictator pretty like you you're really constrained as far as you know any sort of action that you can take and so yeah no i look just the the fact that a president is making this statement is saying that we are looking into extraterrestrial life and that and all the derivatives of that word and those implications like not just uap not just uap you know not not biologics you had you had statements all the way up to that level you had it from ex-presidents but you didn't have a sitting president you didn't have a sitting president saying we i have like ordered the department of war to do that and then the you know secretary of war former secretary of defense pete hegseth literally putting in retweeting it with an alien emoji alien emoji and a saluting emoji yeah um that was probably the most mind-blowing tweet i read out of like obviously everybody's tweeting it every you know you're and and the fact that they are totally fumbling on the epstein thing makes probably makes him more motivated to get to the actual truth on this yeah absolutely and might even motivate people who are against trump to go through the epstein stuff and get more of that out so a net positive on both of those fronts it's totally wow and just if you take the idea that like the the ufo stuff speaks to the nature of reality like the world we're in we're swimming in then politics is downstream of that and the epstein stuff is fucking weird yeah it poisons the well do the thing but yeah but do the things connect at some point and if you're saying that a truth here is going to actually cause a deficit in your ability to get to the truth here when this truth is really weird they are positive some they're not zero some so let's get to the truth on both this is awesome absolutely and i think i think it is a push in the right direction for everything it's it's you know we've never really hosted one of these spaces ago on twitter and it's hundreds of people and we heard from some of you know the people in the community which was really nice to sort of let them chime in because i was really curious on what the pulse am i reading this wrong is there am i reading into this too much am i getting excited for nothing there is there are those possibilities obviously that okay some people are like it's going to be a nothing burger or he's just he's doing it for the clicks or yes all true fine whatever but i wanted to hear from people and see how they felt about it and there is an obvious sense of deserved skepticism but underneath that it's nice to hear that there is a hopeful tone uh from the community from people listening yes people are skeptical and you have a right to be and i am too but in this moment in this particular moment in time you know i feel a little hopeful i feel so hopeful i think it's it's a it's a moment in history that we'll never forget and i think uh you can't put the cat back in the bag because once you once you say that you're tacitly admitting there's probably a there there it's clearly in reaction to this bomb obama stuff yeah and this thing has just been building and if you know anything about like i think the way governments kind of perform these distractions or psyop or any of this stuff it's you're usually you're not hiding something that's you're usually not like constructing something that's like wholly fabricated yeah you are you might be like say look over here but the thing over there is often true sure and so it might be expedient or whatever for them to look at aliens right now which is crazy that we're on the timeline where that is the distraction for anything because for the longest time it was like everything was the distraction for that for that yeah um but that doesn't mean that it's not true and again and then again if you just like take one more step it's like what are the implications if true on this stuff and like both you and i have like levered our lives into this stuff and kind of know it's true yeah so like and then at that point it's like this is great this is really cool and it's gonna legit like think about the fucking random kid in his bedroom seeing this who's just like you know disillusioned with like the received wisdom shitty education they're getting or whatever and they see this thing come through and you know maybe they're a fan of some like alien sci-fi movies but they don't know any of this stuff could be legit you know and maybe they've heard smattering yeah it sparks it sparks a whole new interest and you're like oh my god maybe you know if the president's saying this you know wow and then you start to look into the lore and you find a podcast or you find a movie the butterfly effect of that tweet is something that will undoubtedly have an effect on the world now i'm sure people are not going to want to admit that and they're going to want to debate me on that but it's impossible that you debate something like that because the amount of influence that this person has is great this is enormous and now that that tweet's being shared by everyone there is without a doubt a renewed interest in the topic like you said like you know reaching this little kid in his room or reaching somebody that was out of the ufo space for years or as we mentioned on this space possibly potentially even influencing and inspiring a whistleblower to now come forward and seeing this as a call of action this might be a this might be something this might be like the flare the signal flare that a lot of these people needed saying my commander-in-chief is essentially behind me if i come out yes i don't feel like i'm alone i feel like i'm not going to be laughed out of the room i feel like this is the right time to come out and if anything there's an executive mandate from the white house to gain clarity on this correct so you're being asked by the president as somebody working on these programs yes especially if you think they run in ineffective corrupt dysfunctional ways that are actually not always at the best interest of of the country or national security to go directly to the white house yeah tell them what's up yeah and then and then i think And then Trump is somebody who cares about optics and he's not somebody who I think, you know, is just going to like, you don't you don't say something like that. And then you probably probably this reaction. Yeah. And that's the thing. He's also catering to his ego right now. It is. And he's good at testing the waters, seeing how people react and then deciding whether to double down. And I can already tell you without, you know, the data, you know, hasn't, you know, come in fully, but he's going to view this as a successful test. And he's going to double down. He's going to double down. And there's going to, you know, even if we do get slow dripped into disclosure, at least when at least we know what's happening and at least we know there's like activity. Yeah. And I mean, I think there's a like a decent polemic on society today, which is like the smartest people work on the dumbest problems. So we live in this over financialized society where we're like trading derivatives on derivatives on Wall Street. And it's, you know, to make any money out of college. It's like. It's like banking, consulting, like some of these jobs that like aren't, you know, or like you're like in the unique case where you start a really successful startup. And even that's being changed tremendously by A.I. And so you have this like runaway wealth accrual. And a lot of those jobs don't even involve like value creation. They're kind of value extracting. And like, you know, it's like you're trading cards, but like with the like the underlying productive horsepower of the economy. And we're moving away. From like doing things that are real. And it involves technology and involves physics that like we don't break some modern physics and like, you know, and metal you've never seen before. And, you know, you know, lift and anti-gravitic propulsion and all this shit that like we don't have access to on the civil side. And so you have this brain drain of these, you know, best and brightest going into these like boring jobs that are like. Zero sum and extractive. And then you have like this possible like kernel of an economy being sat on by these, you know, FFRDCs, defense contractors, like all the stuff that Gerb has like mapped out in his amazing channel. And it's stuck in these like stultified little dark corners. And like, let's bring that to the light. It could really change the world. And you could say some of it has dual use implications or whatever. But like, it looks like World War Three might start in the Middle East. So let's let's maybe start to look into. And that's really cool and exciting. Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. Let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS. Oh, my gosh. They're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-CONTACTS.com today. Get to save on your first order. 1-800-CONTACTS. This week, it pays extra to be a Milo's Rewards member. Through October 14th, members get $10 Milo's money when you spend $200 or more on an eligible purchase during Milo's Money Days. Also using your Milo's Rewards credit card? Even better. That's an additional $20 Milo's money. Use it to save on your next Lowe's haul. Exclusions, restrictions, and more terms apply. See Lowes.com slash Milo's Money Days for details. Milo's money expires 30 days after issue. It's subject to change. Credit offers subject to credit approval. Oh, it absolutely is. And not something to be cynical about. Yeah, no, definitely not. It's something to be hopeful for. And there's a net positive here somewhere. You know, Luigi said something really cool, too, when we were, you know, all talking on the spaces. He was talking about sort of how this, you know, how the next steps here might end up being the conversation of offering immunity again. You know, this might. Yeah. We might start to. We might hear this a lot more now. Yeah. Because that is a very real way to get some of the people in the program to come forward. In fact, the only way I think isn't to kick down doors and to threaten them with jail time. It's to offer them immunity. And look, as long as you say everything, you know, under oath, everything without omitting anything, you're off the hook. I think we're going to start hearing talk about that. I think a lot more now. I think you I think you will hear talk about that. And then simultaneously, I think maybe some of Trump's enemies were involved in some of these UFO activities. And so you might also see selective, you know, targeting of some of those people around some malfeasance or, you know, whatever. Oh, I see. You think some assassinations are going to start happening? Oh, I don't want to say assassin. No, no, no. I just like, you know, X, Y, Z person, you know, isn't a fan of Trump. Yeah. But was implicated. And sort of, you know, these like covert UFO programs where misappropriation of funds occur. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But we're dealing with, you know, a hefty sum of money and a lot of secrets and a lot of people who would do anything to protect those secrets. And we know this already. This isn't news. You know, the whistleblowers have told us this much of, you know, the reprisals and all sorts of, you know, threats that have happened. Well, I think if if anything like that would occur, they would occur within the program to deter people from coming out. Yeah. I'm talking about like or from speaking. Yeah. Trump side being like, hey, this this person like is the left and the right are have never been more at war. And like, yeah, I guess. Yeah, we're on. We're on different. Yeah. We're on different. I'm just like my head's going straight to like all the people scrambling right now somewhere in a in a deep underground military installation. Yeah. Who are reading this tweet on their, you know, on their break after they're they grab their securized phone. From like their Faraday box. And they're looking at, you know, truth social or Twitter or whatever. And they read this tweet and you just start hearing in the halls of these cavernous installations, the murmurs of people and their excitement and their worry. And you just you're hearing the chatter and you can't help. But it's very audible because everybody's looking at each other like, holy shit, like these people. Yeah. Not people, you know. No above ground. I mean, the people who are very close to this stuff guaranteed. This tea is spilled and those people are cleaning it up right now. They're like, dude, did you just did you like you got to imagine? I can't even fathom what that must be like right now. But the atmosphere in these high stress, intense environments where stress levels are already really high due to high security and like compartmentalized, you know. Access and information. This must be just the most like wild thing. I'm sure at the individual contributor level, there's a ton of disparate pockets of a lot of excitement. And oh, my God, I'm being heard for the first time. And then I'm sure the managerial and executive level. You all shut up. Everybody here shuts up. You don't say a word. I know you're on Twitter. You shut up. No, they're probably thinking we're in Vichy, France and D-Day is about to occur. Yeah. And you know. Better cover our ass. You're with us. You're against us. Yeah. And whatever whatever the fuck happened to the Epstein files when that was telegraphed around transparency from the Trump incoming Trump admin is might be happy. I bet you a lot of documents are being burned right now. Oh, definitely. Shredded, burned, you know, places being completely leveled. I'm sure things being moved. Because Trump is, you know, he definitely. I was going to say, yeah, you want to see what's going on right now. Look at who's ordering pizza at this hour. Like for real. You know, like they had when they had the spikes of, you know, when when I think Iran was being bombed. Was it Iran or Palestine or about when Palestine was being bombed by Israel or whatever? When the strike first happened, the Pentagon had like a giant order of pizzas that night before the strike happened. Right. And so there's this strange metric. But war gaming. Exactly. Like people are like, all right, we're in for a long night and like, you know, go around the country and look at where pizza is just being flooded into these strange areas. And you're probably you're probably going to stumble on some. Yeah. Some worried people. Yeah. And Trump, you know, it's like talk softly and carry a big step stick. Trump talks big and carries a big stick. He follows up on the thing. He literally just like kidnapped the president of Venezuela. Like the guy, you can criticize him for whatever you want, but the guy takes action. Yeah. He does just move on things. And when he he says he's going to do things like he'll say stuff about tariffs vis-a-vis China and he'll do it and the stock market will tank. And he's like, well, I'm just renegotiating the world. And it's all this art of the deal stuff. Yeah. And so I don't know what the deal, you know. Well, the deal here is clear. I mean, he he starts his tweet off with due to popular demand. Right. So obviously showing your hand right away, which, again, net positive. Huge. But he's also signaling that like, oh, this is people like me now. This is I'm a hero. All right. And if people just keep doubling down on that, dude, we can appeal to his ego and gaslight this guy to give us UFOs. Like this is this is what we're doing right now. We need to like praise this guy. You're doing a great job, Donald. I mean, just keep them going. He was a. - I'm a reality TV star And he, you know, he's feed his ego a little bit. Totally. And he's, I think, uh, I don't know. I think he's probably feeling pumped. I'm sure he's getting positive feedback from the people around him. The interesting thing about the UFO thing, and this is why I think we are going to, yeah, go for it. Oh, sorry. I was going to say, I wonder if there's a way to like, do that with the Epstein files with him and just be like, you weren't there. You weren't on that Island. I think that they wouldn't have invited you. There's no way you were important enough to be on that Island and touch those kids. There's no way they would have been, but you weren't even like a big shot back then and just watch him like, just go, what do you, I was on that Island a hundred times. Yeah. I mean, I, it's my take into gaslighting Trump and everything. You could probably gaslight him into everything and just have Obama say he can't do something. And then he's just like, yeah, great friend Epstein. And I think whatever applies to him applies to the whole. We're like, it's, there are these like game theory dynamics where, you know, we're like first to draw blood on this stuff. Like, I do think you, you end up with other countries trying to like curry for like random countries being like, well, we had a few sightings back in the day and we actually have some files on it or whatever. And then they realize that it's this like crazy popularity play visa, their visa V, their bases, and then they come out and then you get this sort of like the, the, these pockets popping up and it becomes this contagion. Yeah. Or other, other countries potentially trying to vie for his affection as well. Like if you have some other, you know, country looking for America's protection, um, you know, the president of said country might also be like, we're with you. We're also looking at our files. You know, we might see this, the, the fallout of this could be a multitude of things that lead to a variant amount of disclosure. And Russia and China are thinking, oh, we're falling behind now. And like our populations are going to feel like we're, you know, not. On top of this topic. I'll be, I'll, I'll, I'll be blunt. And, and this is my prediction. The amount of sightings is going to jump tenfold. Yeah. Um, and not from actual, maybe not from actual sightings. It'll jump tenfold from people being interested in this topic. Not unlike what happened with the drone situation where a lot of people were looking up filming and all of a sudden sightings were going up. So it creates this like false reality that there are like more NHI or more. UFOs when in fact it's just more people being interested in the topic. So look for a lot of sort of wild and crazy, you know, claims, all sorts of videos hitting, uh, you know, Twitter and all the social media in even military stuff. You're going to get clear footage. This is my prediction that in the next week or so we're going to be inundated with UFO videos. I think so too, but I, I think so for that reason, because of this sort of like, you know, mass consensus shift. Yeah. And then I also think we're entering a very troubled and bizarre time and you have on your amazing swaggy, uh, merch to have invisible college, you know, established 1648. 1648 is the end of the 30 years war, you know, 16 is a treaty of Westphalia that they signed. And in that period, they were reporting like aerial stuff, like weird stuff happening in the sky. In fact, uh, Descartes, I think had a weird experience in the Prussian army. He was fought in the, in the, uh, 30 years war. Sort of this like paranormal experience. And so I think at times of like kind of sort of really crazy disruption, I think, and that also was when the Renaissance kicked off. Like they call it like the, the Rosicrucian, you know, um, the Rosicrucian enlightenment or whatever is this, um, Francis Yates, uh, book about like these Rosicrucian documents sort of spawning the enlightenment. And so I think we're living in this axial age where past meaning structures and systems, a la organized religion are being. Collapsing. Sloughed off, collapsing, and we're going to need new models to incorporate these observables, which are just breaking down the dam of the kind of establishment paradigm. Exciting time to be in. Yeah. This is an exciting timeline to be a part of. Um, I'm going to, I got some questions. We're going to call it after this cause it's getting late. Yeah, it is. And, you know, we got to get back to do scrolling. Um, give me a second. Yeah. Thanks for, uh, thanks for doing this. Yeah, of course, man. This is fun. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty historic. Yeah, no, it's so cool to do this with you on a day like this. Definitely. It's nuts. It's so wild that we were talking about literally exactly what ended up happening as it happened. It was this big, like what the fuck. Yeah. And, and contemplating what that would be like. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, we were like, uh, you know, we hope this isn't stigmatized forever. It's so crazy. Yeah. That was literally the question. Wasn't it? It's crazy. Um, man, I don't know if any of these questions are really relevant anymore. That's the thing. Why? Um, well, just cause they're like so off topic now. Like we're so, it'd be weird to like shift into something else, but I will say this is a great question. This is from, uh, Hex. So I'm going to prompt this one here. Hex is always asking good questions. He is asking good questions and his name won't be on the split flat because it couldn't fit, but 130 characters. It's a great question. If you could relive your time spent with Malgren, knowing it would be his last interview, what would you change? So many things. So many things. I thought I had multiple days with the guy and his health literally went downhill after that. First interview. So it was a four hour interview, but like on, he was, so he ended up getting sick after that and then he ended up in the hospital. I stayed for a little bit to try to help PIPA to the extent I can. His, his daughter, uh, ended up having to leave cause it was like, I think 10 days into that. And then I think a couple weeks after that or something, his health was really in bad shape and he gave me a call and this made it. It into the video. We spoke and I asked him about this time when, uh, you know, he was, he was, he is this crazy story where he's this poor painter's son, uh, right outside of Boston. And he ends up painting the house of Carl Compton, who is the president of MIT and runs the war production board at the time. And, uh, you know, probably implicated in actually literally like there are apocryphal stories of him being shown stuff at. Right. Patterson. And I think this comes from Sarbacher. So it was right. Airfield at the time. And so like probably implicated in the UFO stuff, definitely deep in like kind of nuclear world, national security world. And Malmgren starts talking to him about how photons act as an entangled system. Yeah. And this literally talk about like breaking Einstein's, like, like literally cutting edge physics, cutting edge physics. Einstein wrote in his EPR paper about entanglement. But entanglement had never been like properly like measured yet. It was really like wild. Yeah. And he's talking about how photons are attached and like is insane. Yeah. They were. Yeah. Tangled photons work as a system. And I think that was like 60s when that was like, you know, verified. And Compton was like this guy. Yeah. This was like, you know, we got to get this guy a full ride. And then he also, I think, wrote a letter to the Atomic Energy Commission, Malmgren. And we literally were going through the pages, what they wrote back. And he says, you know. It was around that time that my name got put in, you know, it's basically some like tracking list that the CIA had or whatever. Yeah. Some fast track. Yeah. Right. Because it was clearly this prodigious like genius. And they knew that. And yeah. And they knew that. And then he goes, not only the CIA, he goes, but the majestic, the ones who thought upon it, who, who, who, who, who thought it on themselves to guard the secrets of the world. Yeah. Something like that. And he says the majestic. He says the majestic. And he had throat cancer, uh, I think 11 or 12 years earlier. So it was really hard to make out exactly what he was saying in this long phone call. And so we had to actually, um, subtitle the entire video. And so we subtitle that part. I watch it back and I go, oh, fuck. He said majestic. He said he was being tracked. And you didn't catch it. I didn't even catch it on the spot. You didn't catch it on the spot. And, and then you go. You look at his life and I have to say, if there's any sort of like hermetic, okay, I'll tell you a story. I'll tell you, I'll tell you a story. I never, I don't think I've ever told this story. Okay. We were driving him to the hospital and it was me, Pippa, him and my girlfriend. And I asked him, um, have you ever, you know, is there ever, ever any connection? Do you ever feel like there's anything? Um, real about like a, like a time traveling intelligence agency, which sounds really like a weird question, but I'm down this crazy thread with the towns and brown stuff and him viewing himself as a time traveler. And then I'm, I've come up, you know, there's so much evidence that he actually made, you know, progress and gravity, gravity and time are related in general relativity. And then he, you know, there's the Tim Taylor stuff about them being part of the secret time travel group and, and Malmgren's like investigating all this stuff at the end of his life. And he had been talk every single day. thing, other thing I had asked him, I even remember specifically, I said, uh, I was trying to remember the name of, um, the mayor, the former mayor of Leningrad. And he goes, soup check. He like, he was sharp as a tack, even with his oxygen levels at 89 as we're driving him to the hospital. So he remembers that. And he's talking, he's telling all these stories about Nixon and, and, and Schultz and Pompidou and just these like world leaders, like, you know, all over the world. So also like to the debunkers, like, fuck you. Like, you don't understand just how sharp this guy was at an old age, clearly knowing intimate details about all of these worldly, just pattern matched to, to me. And I've met a lot of people to somebody who was like an elite statesman. And when I asked that question about the time traveling intelligence agency, he just went silent. And it was like this eerie and like Pippa noted it. And we all, we all were like, this is just, I don't know, it was straight. It was like everything else. He was like, I don't know. It was like this chatterbox, like, even as his health was not amazing. And I don't know, I don't know what that means. I have no idea what that means, but, uh, it was interesting. And, um, was that in the car ride? So yeah, it was on the, in the car. He was sitting in front. I think so. Yeah. You guys were back. No, I was driving. Oh, you were driving. He was in front with you. Yeah. And he, like you said, he was responsive to everything else you were talking to him about. Yeah. He was answering everything else. So he heard you. To me, that energy, this interview was like, and this is the reason I brought up crypto's conundrum at the end of the interview. Um, and I think shout out to Matt Pines. Cause I think he made the connection. He was like, Chalmers kind of reminds me of Malmgren. And to me, that interview wasn't interesting because you have a guy who's reporting to have held UFO pieces in his hand. Obviously that's fascinating that came out of this nuclear blast. To me, what was so interesting about that interview was the, the bizarre synchronicities throughout his life that only came together at the end of his life, looking backwards and him popping up at pivotal moments where like, it felt like the world could have ended and him always being the guy not taking credit in the kind of back of the room. And then at the end of his life, he almost feels this like hermetic. Cause this is a clearly this like company man who doesn't talk. I mean, he didn't even admit, he was probably an unofficial cover CIA guy in the interview that I did with him, but pro like for sure was. And, um, so he's like, you know, upholding every oath and, but he somehow feels this need to like talk about all this stuff. And then you have the synchronicities with Carl Compton and living in certain places at certain times and holding the material and, but also talking to you. And that's crazy too. And I felt it felt deeply meaningful to me personally as well. And I think it, it came across that way and no one, no one, I mean, this, no one would have had a better interview. Well, I appreciate you saying that. I don't know if that's true. I think, I think everyone would agree that like you were in, in Gerb and, and, uh, Luigi, they're nodding their heads. Like no one would have done a better job. That was, you were meant to interview Harold Malgren. I felt, uh, you're gonna make me cry, but I felt, uh, a deep, uh, a deep connection with him. Like, uh, he would talk about like getting called up by these people who he felt were like way above his pay grade at a young age. And, you know, and they'd like saw something in him. And I, I, I definitely felt this. I felt this like weird hermetic, like he saw something in you too. I felt there was a reason that he read you. Like, there's a reason like there's, there has to be a Jesse. You were with him when he died, you know, that's not nothing. And like you said, there's one chance he has to tell even the smallest part of his story that he wants people to ponder or to think about. And there's more about that week that I don't even feel comfortable talking about publicly that I'd want to, you know, talk to Pippa about. And I, you know, I don't even know, you know, if I don't want to speak out of turn, but it was a fucking, gnarly week. It was really, really intense. Yeah. You told me some of the details and, uh, what you went through, what people don't know is, uh, really tough, shocking, jarring, really jarring and, and made me extremely angry when people came after him. I understand because you had to take some time and step away. Yeah. Cause you were so, you were still distraught from your experience, you know, during his passing. Yeah. Um, that I, you know, I understand. And, uh, it's not easy and it's not easy to hold your composure during that when you're not really given a, like a guide on how to deal with that. Yeah. Cause it's a wild thing to have to deal with, to be forced to deal with. Um, but you did it really graciously, I think. And, and, um, and then I think even more importantly, I think you took that experience and you made a beautiful thing out of it and something that I'm sure, you know, many people, I'm sure he would be proud of. I hope so, man. I absolutely think so. I almost wish he could have seen it. And, uh, and I'm so grateful to Pippa too. And, you know, I'm, I'm really, I'm really sad. Cause I think he wanted to do more stuff after me. And I think he wanted to say more. And this question, I mean, this is a great question by Hex. It's like he had, so he was clearly by the end of the video, this is why this question is so good. It was so obvious. That he was sitting on much, much more. And so I, yeah, I just wish I had more time with the guy. And it is one of these stories in this field. You're always, it's like you're chasing ghosts and it's like right before you get the hard drive with the footage or before you, you know, meet the person that's going to tell you every day, whatever it, it always seems to kind of slip through your fingers, but you also kind of get enough to keep going. It's this weird fucking thing. And I don't know, man, I, I think what saddened me most about that whole thing was he was a guy that like, I would have loved to have like called a mentor and like spent, we could have talked for, cause he was, I love people who are at the intersection and, and Pippa's a little like this too, of trippy and legit and like, but like operating at a high level. And there aren't too many people. Usually it's like you're operating at a high level. You just want to make more money or you want more power. And then you meet somebody who's operating at that level, who's tethered to something that's kind of transcendent and you feel it with them. You feel that energy. And he had that like sharp as attack, like, you know, again, elite statesman map of a world in his head, like kind of Kissinger type in his knowledge, but then the exact opposite vibe of Kissinger. No, like, you know, he was, he was an angel surrounded by devils. He, you know, they were all bloodthirsty and he had like pure intentions and was discreet. And, uh, and, uh, I, I, we need people like that. And whenever I meet, you know, I just interviewed this guy, Rolf Mowat Larson, this, you know, DOE director of Intel. And he was a CIA guy for like decades. And whenever I meet a guy like that, I'm always like, please, if there's anything you can tell me on, um, Harold, please, please, you know, let me know because I really want to, I think that I think that guy did so much more. It just, uh, silently and in the shadows to, to help and thanklessly to help the country. And I would love to help bring that to light and to, and, you know, if anybody out there knows anything, reach out to Pippa, please first and for me and I'll send it to her. Um, but, uh, yeah, I, I don't know. Milo's pro rewards members save more with member volume discounts on eligible orders to a quote of $2,000 or more. Plus save time with job site delivery on select purchases. Not a member joined for free today. Exclusions, more terms and restrictions apply. Can't be combined with any other discount, including, but not limited to contract and or special pricing loyalty programs, subject to terms and conditions details at Lowe's.com slash terms subject to change propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins. What propels you propel with Gatorade electrolytes. That's awesome. It's awesome to hear you talk with such a, with such conviction about a man who you barely knew. And yet, you know, you hear this deep, deep respect, um, for this man. And I can't, I can't help, but also feel that through your work and, and, uh, your conviction. So thanks for sharing. It's 11, 11. Um, last question. Cool. And then we'll get going. We got a show tomorrow. It's a big question by epiph, epiphery. I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Uh, what is your end goal with what you do? At what point would you feel like you had achieved what you wanted to accomplish? Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know. I talk about this with you all the time, but all the time and like I get really tired of this topic I get tired of creating content I don't think I'm like a natural performer content creator person or whatever I just you know I tell you this all the time like I have a show because it's leveraged to meet interesting people so I can get closer to the truth myself and I just have I film it so that I could document it so it gains a bigger following so I can like get the next person on the show so I can ask them more questions and ideally get closer to some truth but I get tired of the you know kind of I don't know the public stuff is that's kind of hard and like uh I do think that the whole field can be very like divisive and in kind of a clearly manufactured way and uh I've been thinking a lot about like the science stuff is like I'm really interested in that and I like it because you can't really argue against it and so if you can put something out that's like adjacent or inspired by UFO or directly related to UFOs that is scientific and replicable and usable in like a civil side context I feel like I'd be really happy and I'd be like yeah you know what you made it yeah yeah and you know like every you know Chris you fucking bear the man you know you do this you know other people do and like you know I don't know I want out too what are you talking but like that or like uh I don't know like a think tank where I do I love I love obviously the show is so fun but this like weekly cadence of like putting out the next thing it's tough it's tough and it to me all I care about again is like the theoretical sense making of developing like a coherent worldview but then you get sort of swept away with all the other things that you might think you need and might think you want due to the pressure of creativity content that's right all that stuff and I really sometimes I'm like I just want to be in like a room with a bunch of other people I respect yeah with like you know little index cards and like you know you know a bulletin board or something and like creating a map of what's happening and really just thinking it like engaging in sort of deep thought so but you found a way to do that and make a living out of doing that for sure you know that's an awesome thing to do as well I think as far as people who are like aligned with their like daily life goes like I'm definitely in like the 90th I love what I fucking love what I do and I'm so grateful but um but if you see a way out for you and like this is it I've accomplished it it would be at the end of all of your journeys all of your seeking would be to help create or spawn some type of I guess technology or some type of um the search it would be really awesome to like help usher something in that's like objectively just a benefit to humanity cool and just this because I mean in a lot of this stuff can be dystopian and dual use but like whatever it's being used for in the legacy program is the bad use of it you know it's the bad part of the duel and so yeah if any of that can be you know I would argue you already do that with your show well thank you man well I'm well I think a lot of people would agree as well I think that you know the what you provide is you know in this sort of selfish quest to figure out you know the questions that you want answered you're taking people along and by that answering their questions as well so you are creating that service and that there is a demand for that and that does innovate change and inspire the world and so although not a physical object you can hold that's derived from a UFO I think the change that you create with what you're doing now is just as lasting and if not I think more important well I really appreciate that man but I still I want some of these scientific principles I talk about to not have the current stigma they do yeah I want them to be like oh yeah that's a thing and I want you to I want you to want that if you're making shows hey I will I will I will I will and I will for the foreseeable future and I'm I'm pumped right now but uh yeah I'd be I'd be really really excited about that that would be that'd be awesome and all right yeah well Jesse I know it's getting late man and I want to I want to thank you for doing this so late I appreciate you appreciate your friendship and I I want to say shout out to Gerb and Luigi for being you know peanut gallery here but also you know just hanging out and being here in this pretty historic moment I'm not sure when I'm going to put up this podcast I'm in my head right now wondering if I should release this prior to Ross and just throw it out there as a reaction um or the same day I don't know I'll figure it out but um appreciate you very much guys go check out American Alchemy on all platforms uh anywhere you listen to your podcast um follow everything Jesse does he's an important guy and you'll be a better person by doing so I guarantee it thanks Jesse love you man love you too close your eyes exhale feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today well I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class I got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS so I'm going to let go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this oh my gosh they're so fast and breathe oh sorry I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order oh sorry namaste visit 1-800-CONTACTS.COM today to save on your first order 1-800-CONTACTS this week it pays extra to be a Milo's rewards member through October 14th members get ten dollars Milo's money when you spend two hundred dollars or more on an eligible purchase during Milo's money days also using your Milo's rewards credit card even better that's an additional twenty dollars Milo's money use it to save on your next Lowe's hall exclusions restrictions and more terms apply see Lowe's.com slash Milo's money days for details Milo's money 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