The Bears Are the Best Team in the NFL and Ranking the AFC

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For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side. Nationwide investment services corporation member Finra Columbus Ohio. What's up everybody? It is the ringer NFL show late Monday night, November 2nd, Tom Pellicero here, Shield Kapati, Billy Gill along. As always, just finished watching a dominant Bears win over the Seahawks in Seattle, Jeff Simmons everywhere. It's not the best team in the NFL right now. Where do the Seahawks go from here? We'll talk about all of that. Shields also got a variety of takes from the week eight Sunday in the NFL. He's got tears of the AFC content. Some of this may be controversial. Some of it may cause people to send them nasty messages through social media. We actually encourage that. You're not going to want to miss Shields tears. We'll talk about the Vikings. Is there a quarterback issue that needs to be addressed? Does anybody want to win the NFC East all that more after this? This is the ringer NFL show presented by Fandall. Make every NFL week more rewarding with Fandall rewards club. Just bet like you normally would and earn points on eligible settled bets winner lose. Keep collecting points level up and unlock bigger rewards. So keep an eye on your rewards club progress and see what you can unlock. This is your most rewarding season ever with Fandall. 21 plus select states 18 plus DC or Wyoming gambling problem called 1-800 gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. I know sometimes we can be prisoners at the moment. It's a long season. There's ebbs and flows. We get really excited about things and then a couple weeks later it looks to the opposite. But I want to start with this. That bears team tonight looked like they could win the Super Bowl. Every aspect of it, Jeff Simmons first game as a bear gets traded a few days ago. It's on Thursday. It comes back out and plays basically the entire game and is wrecking shop from GoShield. That had a trickle down effect. It just felt like on everything else that the bears were doing defensively. They've overachieved relative to their talent. Now between Simmons and Montesweb being back from suspension. They look really good up front. Offensively they can beat you in just so many different ways from the structured to the traditional plays to the somewhat weird plays. The things that Caleb just is making up on his own. The elements of it are there. Great quarterback, dominant defensive player, really well coached on both sides of the football. That's what puts you in that position and they did it tonight on the road against the team that won the Super Bowl back in February. I would love to tell you to calm down to say this is recency bias that you're being hyperbolic. I don't feel that way. I felt like I just watched the best team in the NFL and I don't think that that's just oh my gosh, you just watched them. So you're saying that I'm with you. You laid it out beautifully there when you look at the different elements of the different, the good teams in the NFL. So many of them and we'll talk about the AFC contenders later. They have a pretty glaring weakness where it's like they're really good here. But over here they could get exposed and I watched that bear's team tonight and I see a quarterback playing at a top five level. Every time I've watched Caleb Williams this year, I've been like I'm watching the next superstar quarterback in the NFL make the leap. Ben Johnson may be the best coach in the NFL right now. And the big weakness you thought they had was defensively and it's only one game. But man, for Jeffrey Simmons to come in, like you said, days later and have that kind of impact and they're flying around and you can see how he's a force multiplier Montez sweat. Other guys up front are making plays because of the attention that Jeffrey Simmons is getting. They look like a complete team to me. They have the look. They have the vibe of a team that believes it can win the Super Bowl. And I'm right there with you. I think they're the best team in the NFL right now. I think one of the questions, especially after we saw what the Seahawks did, the Kansas City last week when we thought, oh, wow, Kansas City is like the forest to be reckoned with in the AFC. Only scored three points against the Seahawks and say, okay, wow, well, this is like a serious defensive team. Like this is in the team that's just going to push around. Today they gave up what was it? 34 points to the Bears. And I mean, some of it, yeah, was turnovers right inside the red zone. It was short scores. But it wasn't like this was necessarily close. There were some miskiss. There was the mixed extra point, the mixed feel pool by the Seahawks. But it was a dominating performance from beginning to end. I don't think there was any point where you thought, okay, the Seahawks are really going to pull away here, even when the things were tight. So I mean, Simmons comes in two tackles for a law six total tackles a sack. I'm with Shield. I'm with Utah. I don't really see where their weakness is right now, which is kind of scary. Offensively, just the way like you know, if you're watching, for instance, Luther Burton. And when he is on the field, he seems to make plays. But he's playing like half the snaps are less. If you watch all the different personal groups, they're rolling through there. We're taking a guy in Cleef Rayman, who was basically like a return specialist and a fourth receiver in Detroit. And now he looks like legitimate threat all the time. Like this is part of the magic of Ben Johnson. Mike McDonald's one of the best defensive minds and play collars in the NFL. And Ben Johnson, every time that the Seahawks to your point, Billy, like tried to, you know, got it close, got to one score like they did it late in the game there. The Bears had something and just went right back down the field like that part of it. You know, Ben Johnson's, you know, one of the highest pay that he is the highest paid first time head coach in the NFL. And he's absolutely worth it. You know, all the bumps that they had early in the season when remember, I mean, not only just Caleb being out, but you know, Collard Gordon wasn't playing at that time. They did have sweat out for a couple of games. And the thing that they missed the most was the defensive tackle. I mean, I look at this shield in the first half, at least those first few drives. You saw a lot of grace able going up one-on-one with Jeff Simmons, which was interesting, because it's like, all right, well, Jeff Simmons could be, you can move him over here and have him go against Quentin Nelson. No, we want to put him on Grace Abel who hasn't played right card since college. And he destroyed Grace Abel on a couple of those steps. In the second half, your doubling Jeff Simmons on almost every single dropback, which is then freeing up Montess wet to make plays, like that's the impact that one player can have. And again, I don't want to just be, you know, recency biased. They just played the game. We're all excited about it. But it just has that feel to me of this is a team that if they can maintain this shield and stay healthy, they can be a rocket ship in the January. They can win in so many different ways. I mean, yeah, you nailed it there with Jeffery Simmons. They didn't have a guy, I think, on their entire defense where if you're an offensive coordinator and you're like, all right, let's get the game plan ready for the bear's defense. There wasn't really that guy you would circle and say, what's our plan for blocking this guy? And Jeffery Simmons now is that guy. So great start for him. And then the point you made earlier about they can win offensively when Ben Johnson's just skimming it up. I mean, that Klee frame and screen is third and long critical point in the game. Great call, great execution. And he gets them inside the five yard line earlier in the game in the first half. Kale Williams has the play where he had like Leonard Williams grabbing him by the leg. He shakes free 20 yard completion down field. So I like that they have that mix. Like there's going to be games where you're just saying, man, Ben Johnson's skimming it up. Everything looks easy. They got 400 yards. And then there's going to be other games against great defenses, which the seeouts do have. Whereas like sometimes you just need your quarterback to make a play where the initial play is a loss. But there's always that second play with Caleb Williams where he's escaping to the right side there and finding guys open down field. So yeah, I really like this team. I really like watching this team. I mean, they are one of the most fun watches in the NFL like Caleb Williams for it feels like we've been hearing about him. Bill. If in the holidays and the personality and the nails and the crying who is mom like there's been so many narratives about this guy He was like competitive. He's on the sideline. He's fired up He's engaged with all of his teammates and when he's on the field. He was playing great So again, I think Caleb Williams is making like the superstar sometimes it's hard to recognize it when it's in front of your Eyes, so I'm really trying to hammer this home Because I feel like I'm recognizing it every time I watch in this year I'm like, no, this is like the next great quarterback in the NFL And I think we're going to really feel like this a month two months from now Until that interception laid in the game by Darnold Seattle is also playing a pre-game in terms of penalties too Like they didn't commit a penalty until late in the third quarter, fourth quarter So I mean, they took all the penalties and they lost all my years after that It ended up catching up to them, but I mean, it wasn't like they were giving away yards or giving away plays They were playing a clean game and and Chicago was just better than them Yeah, you're right. It wasn't clear. It wasn't fluky. I mean, you're like they outgained them by what over a hundred yards And it just even in the first half like they were going up and down the field You're not just going to put up you know crazy numbers on the Seahawks defense But it felt like the Bears could do what they wanted I also loved Ben Johnson early in the game. It felt like he knew we're not gonna be able to run the ball All over these guys and so let's just put the ball in Caleb Williams hands I think he threw 24 passes in the first half But that's kind of when they started to take control of the game So I love his mindset his philosophy. It's like all right What does it take to win this game hunt explosives? And he was doing that again tonight If you're a Seahawks fan or if you're in that building if you're one of the coaches the front office the concern is it's week eight and You got the running backs back tonight. That's a process, right? Gdarian prize sex sharpener who hadn't played in like 11 months like you're trying to work your way back in and kind of get rolling again But they don't look like they've got the clear identity that we saw of the Seahawks certainly Down the stretch and into the playoffs last season the run game was kind of up and down frankly For my been down the entire first season there and then for like three months of last season But they figured out who they are yet a first-time play caller in Brian Flurry who has had to call Games for a backup quarterback. He's had to call games where he's down with four-string running back like that's not an easy job I thought the price and Charbonne and like the limited action looked pretty good like they both ran physically They both look good but like they combine for 16 carries for 52 yards Like that's not that's not the Seahawks formula Sam Darrell dropping back 34 pass attempts takes three sacks If two-thirds of your plays are on his shoulders, and that was not just like a product of playing ketchup at the end Like that was kind of how the game flow went You have to you're gonna have to you know dial in a little bit on exactly she'll I think what you want to be like I don't see the Seahawks going and like trading for Jonathan Taylor or doing something massive in the back But I think they they believe they've got the pieces But they got to find some way to develop at a rhythm offense leaks is way too many times or Darrell to games He's dropping back over and over. He's under pressure. Now he's you know jumping He's jumping in the pocket and that's kind of been the history of Sam Darrell Which is if you can rattle him and make sure he's uncomfortable He'll start throwing the ball to you and we saw him do that tonight Even last year where he won the Super Bowl and played so well Just the splits between when he was kept clean versus when he was pressured They were pretty dramatic. I didn't think he played well in this game It felt like they were throws to be made. You're right. He felt a little rushed He felt a little panic in the pocket. I thought his accuracy wasn't very good And we're not in like week 13 or 14. It's not panic time But I mean they're 25th in offensive EPA right now They're sandwiched between the Falcons and the Titans like it's a big drop off from last year And that's not just those games when they had the backup quarterbacks playing earlier in the season So they got to find some stuff. I'm curious to see How do they feel about their wide receivers right now? Like they were hammering that home during the broadcast that it's JSN or nothing And to be fair it was kind of like it was like that last year But it didn't matter because it was just like you were getting JSN involved and even in this game He had six catches for 118 yards But I wonder is that an area they feel like they need to address is it like you said They just feel like give it time the running backs are healthier now We're going to figure this out. We got a new offensive lineman Don't panic. So I think they're still a good team. I think they're still a very good team But four and four Philly they haven't had a loss like this since 2024 I they had this streak of 30 straight games. They hadn't lost by more than four points And they lose by 17 points tonight and it wasn't fluke at all. So it's not panic mode But I do feel a little bit unsettled with with the Seahawks team right now I mean we're headed towards panic mode though, right? Like we're not there yet We're not even going to have one of the season. Yeah, but I mean You came into the season and you're looking at at you know the NFC you're saying okay Well the NFC West look at two maybe three playoffs spots out of the NFC West, right But now you're looking at the way the NFC North goes and it's like The entire NFC North may make the playoffs and all of those teams seem to start To be clicking right now where the Seahawks the RAM's a lesson example The Seahawks and the RAM seem to kind of just be floating out there And thinking like okay, well, we're eventually going to figure it out. There's plenty of time to figure it out And the time starts to get short on you if you're not figuring it out as you're nearing the halfway point in the season Where you see the bears now you know a couple weeks ago it felt like they were at the bottom of their division Now they're second in the vision their challenge They may win that division depending on what the Vikings do The Lions had a big win this week the Packers are you know week to week or sometimes figuring it out Sometimes that figured out but the Rams of the Seahawks are just sitting out there seemingly hoping that They're just going to get in on their past reputation alone while they haven't put it all together yet Seahawks remember play the Rams twice in the final three weeks of the season So you're potentially tracking toward those two teams duking it out to get into the post season I I'm not in any way in panic mode over the Seahawks They've shown over time they can figure it out and again not having two young running backs For essentially half the season and then kind of dropping them in in a game like this like it's hard Again, I thought both guys looked good physically You just got all right now. Let's like kind of recalibrate here sneaky big game She'll next Sunday Seahawks at home against the Cardinals Cardinals are one game behind the Seahawks in the Rams right now What five Minch Romania is back Uh and they and they're a pretty well coached team like I'm impressed by the Cardinals You know, they got their work cut out. We'll talk about that game against the Cowboys later on in the show But if you're the Seahawks, I hate to say must win game in week 9 But it feels like you know quick turnaround short week right six days away like you better come out and be ready Because Arizona's been putting everybody to the test that they faced this season I had no idea that the Cardinals for one game behind the Seahawks and the Rams when you step Let me check the standings. I think he's off there. We might have to cut this part out No, he's right. Yeah, they're they're three and five Seahawks and Rams are four and four Seahawks and Rams by the way. How about this both four and four with the exact same point differential Both at plus 26 it feels like we've had a lot of conversations about like are the Rams what's wrong with the Rams Are they going to be okay? Here we are after week eight and they're in the exact same spot as the Seahawks So yeah, I think Seahawks going to be okay. I think their defense is just going to keep them in every game And if you look at it and say are you got the Cardinals and the Raiders the next two week that two weeks they could easily be Six and four here, but it's just been that kind of season where you can't you know We look at the schedule during almost every part. Well, you got this team and this team And then we forget we get to Sunday and it's like oh the Titans are taking the Bengals to overtime And they're 10 and a half point underdogs. You got the Rams uh, you know losing to the Cardinals or whatever it was when they were 12 and a half point favorite So um, I think the Seahawks will be big favorites in that game. I would expect the Seahawks to win that game But yeah, there there are no gimmies right now. It feels like there's a lot of parity between the teams We think our Super Bowl contenders and the teams we thought would be picking in the top five top 10 coming into the season So what thing the Rams have going for them though is they're still waiting for Miles Carrot to be back. Which what what is he going to be coming back? I feel like it's good on that bike Yes now. She is arms Yes, but you just you they show them and you're just looking at his arms like is this a human being this is like This is outrageous. What do you think he was having a good time? He was smiling, but yeah, you're right It's uh, you know sometimes teams will be like all right Well, we didn't make a move at the trade deadlines GM's always like to say this but we're getting this guy back from injury This is a bigger move like training for Miles Gary. Yeah, which I guess is true You know what Miles Garrett goes out there and Michael Parsons you could say the same thing for the Packers So yeah, I don't I don't know when he's coming back, but you're right they they feel like a team where They should be at their healthiest Later than they have been so far Miles Garrett practicing this week first time since he underwent the knee surgery About seven weeks ago at this point You talk about that the midseason acquisition thing. How about this if Miles depending how these next few weeks go Could it be Miles Garrett back and Micah Parsons debut thanks giving Eve against each other NLA Rams Packers which which figures is a big game regardless what happens over these next few weeks That is going to be a big game um in the NFC playoff picture real real quick here before we we take a break and do shields AFC contender tiers, the NFL plus account, just put this statement. that out. So the Bears went over Seattle, their fourth double digit victory this season, most by any team so far in 2026. 17 point wins. Chicago's largest prime time road victory, very small sample size, but largest prime time road, prime time road victory over a team above 500. Since they blew up the giants in 2006 when the Rex Grossman Bears went to the Super Bowl. That was a, that was a highly that, as I read that tweet, I realized how convoluted the stat was, but I'm going with it. Big win for the Bears, that division tightening up. We'll talk about the Vikings later on in the show. There's a lot that's happening right now with them, Kyle Murray being banged up with a hamstring now. We don't know if he's going to play this week, but first shields, AFC, contender tears. It's controversial. He's got it for you after this. The ringer NFL show is brought to you by Fan Duel Thursday Night Football. Just got a little more rewarding with Fan Duel Rewards Club. With Fan Duel Rewards Club, you can unlock exclusive offers throughout the NFL season, including Thursday Night Football. We're talking profit boosts, promotions and more ways to get rewarded on the matchups you're already watching. And as you earn points on eligible settled bets, winner lose, you can level up and unlock even bigger rewards with Fan Duel Rewards Club. So before Thursday Night Football kicks off, head to the Fan Duel app and check out what's available for your level. Make this your most rewarding season ever with Fan Duel. 21 plus selects dates or 18 plus DC or Wyoming, opt in required refund and bonuses issued as non-mustral bonus bets or tokens. Restrictions apply. See terms for all offers at sportsbook.fan Duel dot com gambling problem called 1-800 gambler, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Chevrolet. Chevy drivers need a truck that shows up the same way they do. That's why Chevy Silverado is number one in manufacturer loyalty. So they can go where others won't make their own way there and always get it done. And as long as Chevy people keep showing up, we'll keep building trucks that do the same. Chevrolet, together, let's try visit Chevy dot com slash trucks to explore the lineup. It is Monday, which means time for Shield to regale us with all of his various takeaways. Really, you can do whatever you want as you know in this segment. What are you laying on us today? We're doing a little, you know, we haven't gone down though. Power rankings, contender, tears, avenue yet. And so I thought, you know what? It's a good time. We're not quite at the halfway point here. But let's go through the AFC. I thought that was part of the story of week eight. You had chief sprinkles. You had bills, Ravens. You had some other, you had Bengals. You had a Steelers Brown. So where are we with all these teams? So here's what I've done. I have come up with four tiers in the AFC. So you have 16 AFC teams. I came up with four tiers and I'm going to spring them on you guys. And I'm going to tell you what teams I have in each one. Maybe give a little sentence on each one. And you're going to tell me if I'm a dummy or if I should get, if someone should get moved up or if this fan base is going to be really angry with me, are you are you ready for this exercise? Can I ask a question? I have questions always. Yeah, question. Yeah. I had that plan for my seven. So is this based on what you've seen so far on what you're expecting on upcoming games on how you think it'll end? How did you put this together? Yeah, I think, well, I might change my opinion on that as we go, but I think this is where I'm at right now with the teams. This is what I think of right now. It could change as we, you know, month from now, two months from now. So this is where I'm at right now based on what I've seen in a little bit of projection on what I think we might see in the weeks ahead. Any other questions Billy? No, I love this. I made tears also just in honestly to keep to keep like focus with you and make sure I have the team so that I can compare what you're doing to what I'm doing. It was more to organize myself, but I love the process of tear making as you go. And the fans love my tears typically. I mean, I would say the most popular segment in the history of Ringer NFL show was your quarterback here. Sorry. Here are the AFC tears. We're going to start at the bottom and work our way up. Okay. So the bottom tier in the AFC, we are calling the ignorables, you know, this kind of sort of Ringer branded the ignorables. So these are teams that if you're a fan of them, of course, keep watching root forum. There's interesting stuff going on with some of these teams, but like for everybody else, unless it's fantasy or gambling or you're going to pixel or something, you can probably ignore them a little bit because these teams have no chance, I believe, of even sniffing the playoffs. Okay. Here we go. Here are the ignorables. There are six teams. You got the Tennessee Titans in the ignorables where it's not about making the playoffs. It's about what do you have in Kim Ward? I think that's the biggest thing they have to keep an eye on here. The rest of the way he had a nice game on Sunday, but they would also have the number to overall pick if the season ended today. So the Titans are in there at one in seven. No surprise. The chargers are in there at oh in seven. They somehow seem to get worse over the by week. That's not how it's supposed to work over the by week, but they got the worst offense in the NFL, worst point differential in the NFL. Just in Herbert is last in EPA amongst starting quarterbacks. They are oh in seven. The chargers are firmly in the ignorables. Now this next one, it pains me a little bit because Billy's got the hat on. But the Miami Dolphins, they're one in six. They got to be in the ignorables. They're not a horrible team. You know, they've lost some one possession games. They kind of played the Patriots tough there for a half. But yeah, the Dolphins are not getting in the playoffs. I think we can all agree on that. The Colts are in this category. Two in six might be the most hopeless team in the AFC. No quarterback, no first round pick in 2027. Honestly, Colts fans, I'm sorry, but I don't even know what you have to look forward to. It's like, I guess maybe a coaching change or something in the offseason, Billy, you got something on the Colts there? No, I was going to say. So when you said you had six teams, I counted my tier four all. So I didn't give them names because I want to give it to you. I also had six. And right now we're four for four. So I'm kind of on the edge of my seat wondering if we're going to go six for six on the ignorables. Wow. Tom is this as excited as you've been all day that, you know, we might Billy and I might be aligned here on this tier. Let's let's find out. The suspense is killing me. Okay. All right. Two more here. We have the New York Jets in this category, which what a weird Jets season. Their offense has kind of been unbelievable the last two weeks. They're going up and down the field. And it hasn't really mattered because their defense has stunk it up and Aaron Glenn. I think we probably know how this is going to end for Aaron Glenn at some point. The Jets are two and six. Now my last team here, this is where we'll see if Billy and I are aligned. I don't know if this one's going to be controversial or not. I've got the Baltimore Ravens in this category. So the record is different. You know, they're four and four. Their record's not as bad as these other teams. But with their quarterback situation, I just think we're probably going to be able to ignore the Baltimore Ravens. I think their defense is mediocre. Their point differential is bad. I would just kind of be stunned if they hung in there. And we were like, oh, Ravens are surprising. Given even with the quarterback situation, they found a way in there in the wild card race. I don't think that's going to happen. I think it's going to go in the other direction. It would be go six for six, Billy. The audience is the anticipation is killing them. No, we went five for six. I did not have the Ravens in my ignoreables, unfortunately. You want to know the team I had? Of course. I feel like this team is probably going to be in your next tier and tier three. And I don't know what tier what is tier three called just, you know, four. I'm not telling you yet. We'll get to that in a moment. Well, I think that this team is probably going to be in that tier for you. I'd be surprised as they weren't. But the team that I had in my ignoreables that you missed out on and the Ravens were in tier three for me. So just one tier above was the Houston Texans, just because I feel like maybe things have gotten a little bit away from them. And it's not that I think that they're in the category of the worst teams in the AFC. I just think they fall in the category of the teams that don't really have a chance of getting out of the situation that they're in and sneaking into the playoffs. I feel like that division's lost for them already. I know it's really still, but I feel like they're probably not going to win that division. And I don't know that they're going to make it as a wild card. That's why I had them in that tier. Okay, I would say the first five that you guys both have in there, I think are fairly hard to argue. Now they're they're interesting for a variety of reasons in terms of who's keeping their jobs, who's going to have very high drafts. I've been entertained by Tennessee the past couple of weeks. I may really seem to have found something in terms of cam organ, some momentum, Tony Pollard's putting up numbers. You know, I think that part of it is interesting. The Jets, it's just they're in every game, but they frustrate you. They don't know how to win. They don't know what intercept pass is either, but they they're in the all these games to the end and they just have no clue, you know, how to to finish it off. The Colts, it is what it is at this point. They're not mathematically out of anything, but you know, that was a real tough type of a, you know, performance against Jacksonville. You trade to your veterans. You're hoping, all right, guys, like show up and the just it just felt like there was no kind of energy and emotion there. I would not put the Ravens down in that category and I would not put the Texans down in that category. The Texans because their individual were yes, that they're, you know, ways behind Jacksonville at this point, but Dmitriko Ryan's we've seen his teams pretty much every year get better. They took a tough loss right before the buy. If they got that win also made or on a three game winning streak, we feel differently about it, but I just still get that sense. There's enough good there, especially And you know how much talent they have defensively, it just feels like a team may not be totally pretty, but they could figure it out and they could go on a run because we just saw them do that a year ago. And as for the Ravens, I mean, this is the, we're recording this section of the podcast, you know, Monday evening. Right now for a Thursday night game. All right, Jesse Mentor to spoke to the media short time ago, Lamar Jackson out, there's no update finally, but it seems like he's probably out for the season. Snoop finally not going to play on Thursday night. We'll see where that goes, but if it's turf toe injury, those can take a while to come back. Joe Fignano, the undrafted rookie third stringer also is injured. Jesse Mentor said he has a chance to play on Thursday. And they just signed a guy Austin Reed who was in camp with them. I don't know off the top of my head if Austin Reed's ever taken a regular season NFL snap. So what I'm interested to see now for Eric Acosta and Jesse Mentor in that team is what do you decide to be? Remember, they in the Jaguars by virtue of that Thursday night game, they get the head start on trade deadline weekend. They can start wheeling and dealing on Friday. I talked to a couple of GMs today who brought up the possibility. Well, now you got to look and see if the Ravens might end up selling. Do they start trading some of their parts, their older players? If it goes a certain direction on the flip side of it, you also can make the argument, they're the team that should go right now and trade for a quarterback because you've got enough other pieces here that if you can just kind of figure it out, maybe you can make a run in a division that yes, they've got a distance to make up. But I don't think anybody's sitting here insane, you know, some combination of the the Steelers, the Browns and the Bengals are invincible and they're not buried by that much in the standings. I tend to think knowing what how they feel about the roster that they will lean toward the former and go out, whether that is for Tyson Baygent, whether that's for Jacobi Preset, whether if it's for some other quarterback that's out there, try to make a trade, bring somebody in and let's just see, let's give it a shot. We're too good of a team. Or you can flip the other direction. I'll be fascinating to see how the entire thing plays out, but until we know are the Ravens going to be buyers or sellers at the trade deadline and I think it'll be one of the two, they won't just play it down the middle. I'm just not ready to write them off just yet. She'll they're tricky because it's a first year head coach. So there's culture stuff. There's what kind of team do we want to be all that where if you're just selling, which I don't think would be the biggest deal if it's players or you don't think are going to have a future there where you do that, you let you get some evaluations on younger players. But when your quarterback situation is so dire that it's hard to even evaluate the rest of the rosters, but you know, on offense, the other players are just getting frustrated and feel hopeless. That's a tough place to be. We still have a lot of football left here. It's not like we're in week 13 when this is happening. So that'll be an interesting one of those quarterbacks you mentioned. I can't imagine it's going to take a crazy amount of draft capital to get one of those guys. So maybe they look for someone, hey, this person can kind of just establish a floor. I mean, percent, just as you mentioned that, I'm like, what kind of makes sense? He's going to operate the offense. It's Declan Doyle's first year. Let's go ahead, plug him in there. Even if we don't make the playoffs, at least we feel better about this season than we have in the past. And who knows for the future? I mean, if you get someone like percent with the March accent sort of injury history, maybe that would make sense as a veteran backup for years to come. All right. So I still have the, I don't think it's going to happen for the Raven. So I'm comfortable. I'm not moving on. Tom says he would bump the Ravens up. Tom and I are aligned on the Texans. Billy is saying, put the Texans down there in the basement. All right, Billy, are you ready to go ahead? But it defends the Texans. They also have the second easiest strength of schedule, the remainder of the season. So they play teams like the chargers, the Titans, the Eagles, the Colts, the commanders, injured Ravens, whatever the Browns are going to end up being. So they have a lot of winnable games. They're not out of it by any means, but, you know, they could trick us. I think we are all surprised by the position that they're in at this point in the season. No doubt, right? So I would say if they win a lot of these games, then maybe we'll be surprised by their record. And it will be an inaccurate record. But maybe it will actually be where they should be. And they've just lost some of the games that they should have been winning. And then they'll fadden up on the easier games and kind of get right back into the mean of where we thought they would be towards the end of the season. But who knows? And she'll, by the way, in your defense on the Raven situation, you did say what we know right now. So as it presently stands with seemingly no healthy quarterbacks, I think that putting them in the bottom tier is a safe bet, but we still have a week and they could make a move there. So by the way, Joe, Joe Fignano, seven years of college football pop quiz. Can either of you name one or both of these schools, Joe Fignano played college football at? Oh, yeah. Maine is one of them. I know. Right. You got the deep cut. Maine is correct. Do you remember where he transferred to from Maine? Was it Yukon? That is correct. Wow. She'll say, I was pretty good. I didn't think you'd get Maine. I did not think you had Maine in you and that was the one you had first. It was one of those things we talked about how we watch football on Sundays. And I'm like, oh, baby, you know, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen has gotten the main TV. That's getting the sound. And then one play. And I'm like, all right, I'm probably going to be switching to another game. So disappointing. Yeah. That was tough. That was very tough. All right. Here we go. Next here. This next year. Now, now that I look at it, this isn't going to be great for a graphic on social like you put that out there. But I wasn't thinking about that when I named the tear. The tear is called not to be mean, but I don't really take you seriously. I love this name. Okay. You like that one? Okay. So that's the next. There's four teams in this tier. This one, it's all about the ceiling. You know, I see no scenario where any of these teams make like the AFC championship, let alone the Super Bowl. Now, if they do, they can put me in their hype video and they can make fun of me and they can take aim at all their doubters because I am one of their doubters, I think they can be playoff teams. But again, if we're talking true contenders, I don't see it. So not to be mean, but I don't really take you seriously for teams in this tier. The first team is the one you guys just talked about the Texans. I thought about putting them in the lower tier. But then I got to where you kind of got there where I looked at the schedule. I'm like at Chargers at Browns, Colts, Ravens, the next four. Like you said, still have the commanders eagles and the Titans. I'm like, I can't fully cross them off because I think their offense has actually performed pretty well this season. And even though the defense has been a huge disappointment, they still have good players. They still have a good defensive coach. Maybe they make some noise. They might be the most dangerous team to not make the playoffs. Honestly, they could be that. Yeah, I could see them being tough down the stretch. You're right about that. All right, this next one, this is going to be the fan base that I think is going to be most upset with me for being in this tier. And that's the Pittsburgh Steelers. I there's six and two. I very much respect you Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, you're good on the lines of scrimmage offensive line, defensive line, you're physical. You can rush the pass or you sack the Sean Watson eight times. You could run the ball. I mean, this one to punch of jail and warden Rico dattle is nice. You're an old school team. But you know what? I stand with my friend Kurt Warner. I don't really know Kurt Warner. He doesn't know me. But you know what? Maybe we'd get along. Maybe we would be friends. When he said he just doesn't think their passing game is good enough or explosive enough. I agreed with him. I still agree with him. I think they're a good team. I think they very well could be a playoff team. I don't think they're going to be a dangerous playoff team. I think their ceiling is capped at the divisional round. Do either of you disagree here that I have the Pittsburgh Steelers in this tier? I disagree. Just solely based on the fact that they've got a really good defense that is rolling and they got depth. They got depth at edge rusher. They got depth at defensive tackle. They've got a bunch of dudes on that defense. And the fact that the offense is better than everybody expected. Like I caught a ton of hell for saying on Bill's podcast before the season. I thought this could be a top 10 offense. And even in my mind after I was like, maybe that was a tad strong. Look at the numbers right now. They're tied for 10th and points. They're 12th in yards. EPA is a little bit lower than that. Like they've got a very clear identity in terms of running the football. And Aaron Rogers is playing his best football in five years. You know, maybe there's an addition that they can make at the trade deadline. Maybe add one more receiver to give them that explosive piece. I know that they've been looking around for that. I just feel like again, I go back to it's not a tangible thing. There's no metric. There's no analytics for it. But Aaron Rogers like digging deep and going everything I'm doing. This is all for this. It's this is the end of the road. I'm going to get everything out of it. I'm going to get everything out of everybody around me. There's six and two for a lot of different reasons. And the fact that Aaron's playing his best football really seems to be galvanizing the troops, which hasn't always been the case, frankly, in his career. Like I just think that the whole thing is cool. How it came together. How good will they ultimately be come playoff time? That remains to be seen. They have an easy schedule. Well, sorry. What are you saying, Billy? Go ahead. No, sorry. I wasn't saying they also have kind of an easy schedule going for. They have Titans Eagles. Texans will see if they turn it on Panthers Ravens twice if they don't have a quarterback. Like they could win some games, but to your point, I don't know how dangerous they will be in the playoffs. I think of the season and today they might be playing the Bengals in the first round. So do you trust them to beat the Bengals in the first round, even if it's a home game? Well, we'll get to the Bengals maybe in a future tier here. Billy, but okay. They weren't in a previous tier. No, they weren't in a previous tier. Texans, Texans and Steelers, I have in New York. And then I have. the Browns and the Raiders as my next two teams in this tier. So the Browns are five and three. I think if you're a Browns fan, you're like, Hey, this season has kind of exceeded my expectations. But I think if you're looking at it zooming out and objectively, they have a minus 34 point differential. They have five wins by a combined 16 points. We talked about it before to Sean Watson with those game winning drives. It's that kind of a sustainable formula for the entire season. I don't think so. They haven't won a game by more than four points. So they've overachieved. They're not a bad team. You know, but there's nothing to see here in terms of being an actual contender. And then the Raiders are the other one. And the Raiders offense has been fantastic. But they've allowed 30 plus points in five straight games. So they're kind of one of those teams that I think if they're facing a peer or an inferior opponent, they're going to look really good and beat those teams. I think if they're facing a good team, we're probably going to say, all right, they're not quite there defensively. And they've got the 49ers, the Seahawks and the Broncos coming up. So there's nothing wrong with these teams. Again, they can compete. They can be frisky. Maybe they make the playoffs. But in terms of contenders, I don't have them. I don't take them seriously, Billy. What do you think? I was going to ask Tom what Tom thinks and what Tom knows the Raiders might do at the deadline because Kirk seems to be like the sexy potential quarterback that teams might want to go out and get them. And to Shield's point, like, I don't think any of us thought that the Raiders are actually going to be in playoff contention this year. So are they maybe ahead of where we thought they might be like a head of schedule and then that delays potentially making some trades? Because I mean, they got rid of Max Crosby. Then they end up getting him back and they've been a surprise. But they're not going to go on a deep run. So what do they do here? The Raiders are relevant in early November, which has not been a common occurrence here over the past couple of decades. So I wrote in the sweep on Saturday, I listed Max Crosby and Kirk Cousins as two guys that were being talked about a lot within the league. But each one comes with its own complications. With Max, he's got a big base salary that you are taking on. And it's going to be extraordinarily expensive in terms of the draft pick compensation. If there's some team that thinks this is the missing piece, this is the one guy that's going to put us over the top, I can't rule it out because he offered two first drum picks for virtually any player in the NFL. The team is going to consider it. But Max wants to be in Vegas. He's not forcing his way out. He's not in the same mindset that he was before the Ravens trade. If I had the lean, I would say Max Crosby is still a rater. And if I had the lean right now, I'd say Kirk is still a rater as well. Not because there's not going to be interest, because I believe that there will be over the next week here. But he's putting like a top 10 quarterback and you're still in the thing. Even though you're sitting there going, okay, we know intellectually Fernando is going to play eventually. We have the number one pick. We're not just going to put them on the shelf for three years. But you're like, Kirk is overcoming some things. Besides Brock Bowers, who do you look at on that offense? You go, boy, the passing game. We're really scared. Like Trey Tucker's had a nice year. Jack Besh is just getting back now. But they're another team. They don't have a true ex. They don't really have a lot of receiving options. And Kirk is out there just making plays left and right, and looking the best that he has in five years. So, you know, if you got offered enough, if you get offered, let's say a second round pick for Kirk Cousins, I think you have to think about it. All sticking into account the fact that he's got a $10 million guaranteed bonus in March. You can get out from under. I just knowing Mark Davis and like how he feels like he wants to win. When he thinks he's got a shot to get into the playoffs and be back to relevancy, it is a little bit of a hard sell unless somebody blows you away. But they're realistically, they're not going to win their division, right? I think that the three of us would agree they're not going to win their division. So, you're kind of hoping on, do we get one of those wild cards slots? Or do we like think, oh moral victory, we were the first team that didn't make it? Is there a chance that they play the 49ers this week? Well, there's a chance that's happening for sure. But is there a chance based on the outcome of the game against the 49ers? Like if they get their wheels blown off, do they then say, you know what? Maybe we're not as close as we thought we were. Now we're more inclined to make a mover. Do you think that they're kind of already have their path that they want to go down? I would say that every team is still gathering information. And that's part of the reason the later trade deadline is engendered more action since they moved it back into the Tuesday after week nine. It's by some GM still want it to be even later than that. Yeah, I think that you're continuing to be in an information gathering mode. That they've got some measuring six. I mean, listen, the first three games of the year, they played inferior opponents, they won all three. Next four, that was kind of murderous row. They lost all four. Then they go on the road and they beat the Jets in a game where they're listening. That was a fist fight. He went back and forth. And now the night is it's another game where you're like on paper. It's going to be tough, but they've only been blown out once or twice this season. I think it's as much as anything. It's not just the, all right, what you get in the playoffs is a wild card and you lose. Like what did that accomplish? She's just sold and built for the future. There's a cultural aspect of this, though. Clint Kubiak is trying to eradicate all the loser mentality out of the building. And all the guys who have been down, Max included. You know, who's an unbelievable competitor, but just worn out from the constant losing and the changes. When you're close and you decide to trade core players away, like that can have an impact on everybody. Again, there's a price on virtually everybody in the NFL. I wouldn't be shocked if Max and or Kirk ended up traded. But where we stand right now a week out, I tend to believe that they're going to keep pushing. Even if they lose their 49ers team, that I think most people would have is one of the top five teams in the NFL. So funny how I mean, they might be the most intriguing team here. Over because what Billy said, it's like, well, in my head, I'm going. It doesn't make sense organizationally. You're going to change your opinion on what you're going to do based on the outcome of one game. But now I'm looking back at last week. And it's like if they were to lost to the Jets in that game. And then they lose to the 49ers. And now it's like, all right, you're three and six. Then it might become a little bit easier if someone offers that second round pick or someone offers a big package for Max Cosby where it's like, all right, we know what we are. We can still have a good culture. We can still be competitive this year. But we have to be smart about this. If you can get draft capital and what's supposed to be a very good draft, and we have a lot of holes on our roster, specifically on the defensive side and wide receiver. And we could still upgrade our offensive line. Like we just have to do that. That's the smarter thing to do. But now that they won that, they're in sort of this middle area. And with Tom saying, like, how much is that edge in culture you get? Like, what is that worth versus a second round pick? I don't know. Those are the conversations they have to have in there. So you're very interested to see what they do here going forward. All right, I got two more tiers here. So there were six teams left. And I thought, you know what? This feels like a very clear top six to me. But I'm like, I'm not putting six teams in one tier. So this next tier is knocking on the door. And then the top tier is the favorite. So I'm like, I'm going to force myself to make some decisions. Which three teams do I feel the best about? And which three do I feel like, all right, they're good teams, but I have them one tier below. So knocking on the door, I got three teams here. These are teams that could get to the Super Bowl. But I'm a little more concerned about them and their flaws than I am the top three teams. So the three teams I have here are the Cincinnati Bengals. Five and two. My preseason Super Bowl pick, the Cincinnati Bengals. The New England Patriots. Five and three. Drake May playing just about as well as any quarterback in the NFL right now. After that rough start. And then this fan base is also going to be mad at me. To it, Billy, the Denver Broncos in this category. Which I think their fans are going to be very upset. Let me start with the Broncos here. So there's six and two. And I think they have the potential to be a Super Bowl team. However, every nerd metric that I can't take my eyes off of. And I know you're saying she'll watch the games. Don't worry about the they've been outgamed by 658 yards this season. That ranks 30 in the NFL. They are five and oh in one score games. And if you if you're someone who thinks, Hey, they're good at winning one score games. They're clutch. Okay, that's fine. I don't believe that's the case. I feel like regression always comes for that. We've seen it for the Chiefs over the years. I don't think they have some special skill that makes them win these games. So I still need their offense to get better. They've shown flashes here at the last two weeks for sure. I need to see more of that before bumping them up over the teams. I have in the top three. Billy, what do you think? I'm going to be hearing it from Broncos fans. I think with this one. Yeah, I'm surprised. And I kudos to you for, you know, one, not being blinded by the fact that you picked the Bengals to go to the Super Bowl. Earlier in the season and saying, you know what? I'm a man of integrity. I'll tell you when I'm wrong. And right now I'm wrong so far. But also, I'm surprised because I'm looking at who is left. So I know who's going to be in that last year. Oh, shit, I forgot about that. Yeah, you can kind of tell if you're paying attention. So I thought that there was another team that you have in tier one that you're going to put in tier two that's fan base. Who's going to even more upset. And that is a team that lost to a team that you just put in tier two yesterday. And granted, you could say, well, it kind of came down to a kick, right? Because that missed kick earlier in the game, then ended up making it a four point game. And you could have kicked a field goal to end up winning the game instead of going for a touchdown. But I was surprised that you have faith and confidence in the Chiefs to not have them in tier two at this moment. Based on what we've seen out of them the past couple of weeks. But I guess we'll get to them when we talk about your next tier. Well, let's hear the first tier. Do you want the first tier? And then we'll talk about all the entire separation here. Good idea. I should have thought about that. That will work better. All right. favorites. Here are my top three teams. If you're like shiel, you got you got to get this right. One of these T you have to pick the three teams that are most likely to get to the Super Bowl from the AFC. I have the Buffalo Pills six and one. I have the Jacksonville Jaguars five and two and I do have the Kansas City Chiefs five and two of the team that the Denver Broncos. Yes, I understand just being on Sunday. I still feel better about the Chiefs right now than I do the Broncos. So Tom, you tell me what direction do we go in here? Which of these teams is most interesting where I have them. Broncos also beat the Jaguars, did they not? They did that. It's another toss-up game. Jaguars outplayed them in the first that Broncos have a good resume. There's no doubt about it. They have impressive wins on their resume. It's about the trust factor. Do I trust them as much as I do? I am a super bowl last year. I would say this. The Broncos offense the last two weeks has, I think, calmed some of the concerns that I might have had about how sustainable it. Like this looks like Bo Nex again. You know, remember, he's coming off of a significant foot injury. I don't know what extent that impacted him physically or mentally, but it seems like he's cutting it loose a little bit more. It seems like he's stepping up in the pocket. He's using his legs as pushing the ball down the field. Jalen Waddle, who we talked about a few weeks ago, is maybe the most disappointing big time acquisition of the offseason. You're seeing him start to get integrated. Remember, they installed basically one offense in one language with Davis Webb. And now we're scrapping that and going back to Sean Payton, which does take some time. But you're seeing them taking incremental growth forward. They've gotten healthier on the defensive side of the balls, their hands back now. Jonathan Cooper is off the exemplest. I still think that the Broncos are a really tough team. They're really well coached team. You know, how good is Bo Nex trying to do the other quarterbacks that are up in that tier? I mean, if you're comparing them to Josh Allen, I think most people would say, I'll take Josh Allen. If I got to pick one of those two, you know, where is Trevor Lawrence fit into that mix as well? You know, with the Jaguars, you know that they're really good at what they do. But there have been, you know, some games this year where it just seems like it's harder than it needs to be. I mean, the Eagles should have beaten them in London. They should have lost that game. They did lose in, you know, in the game against Denver. They beat up on a Colts team yesterday that kind of, you know, frankly, showed up there and decided to sleepwalk through the game. I'm not saying that Jaguars aren't a really good team. I know what the statistics are under Liam Cohen. I'm just saying I have more hesitancy there just because we haven't seen them do it in the playoffs before. We haven't seen the bills get over the top and get into a Super Bowl. But we know how dangerous they can be how good Josh Allen is, including in those big games. They have the same issue that they've had for years, which is can the defense get a stop? Is the bills defense going to stop somebody after Josh Allen puts up 30 or 35 or 40 points? Can they actually, you know, make the play? I think that the other teams are fair where you have them, Shield. I do think the chiefs, I would be the chiefs of the tricky one because the last two weeks, I think you've seen certain things exposed. If you can stop the running game, they're still trying to figure out what they are and where the ball is going in the passing game where she being back is important. I anticipate they're going to trade for a receiver over the next eight days here. And we'll see where that leaves them. You know, they're going to compete on defense. I just, you'd like it to be better when you have maybe the greatest quarterback of all time in Patrick Mahomes. I just like it to look a little bit easier when you have to throw the ball than it does right now. Yeah, they're really scheming it up. And I thought I didn't love any reads game management in that game, but I thought just thematically they were doing a lot of nice things against the Broncos. They seem to be able to find a way even in that game. You know, the running game was a little up and down, but just kind of these short passes that get guys open and all of a sudden they're running and yards after the catch. Like they were doing that. I thought to a good degree there in that football game. So I'm with you. I feel like trade for one wide receiver. And I'm going to feel pretty good about them. I like that they can win in different ways. I think defensively they're still pretty good. I mean, that game flipped so quickly. It was wild for three quarters. It's like, man, the Chiefs are clearly the better team. And then you had the Troutman catch and run. And then you had the Chiefs like a short yardage fail and a bad field goal. And then the Broncos come right down the field again with the big little dump off pass there to Jonah Coleman. I just think that the that goal line sequence is the perfect example of why it still just makes me nervous because the best teams. You know, you know, if you're a fan sitting there, you're like, okay, throw the ball to Justin Jefferson. Like that's clearly where the balls got to go. If you're the 49ers, it's probably, you know, George killer Mike Evans, if Evans is out there, like get the ball there. Who do you want that ball to go to if you're a Chiefs fan? When you got the game on the line and you got to get one yard, they get the ball on one running play down there. But they threw the ball three time or tried to throw the ball three times. There was an incompletion that doesn't even say who it was to. I don't even know who that was Paul was throwing to. Yeah, Kenneth Walker with two runs. They had the fall start to back some up. And then there's no one open. Like where's the ball supposed to go? You're not going to throw it to his savior. Were these not big enough? Were she rice? I guess he hasn't played a whole lot. It was Travis Kelsey for a very long time. But this is not the same Travis Kelsey. That's where if you can get, you know, a Brian Thomas Jr. who's available for reasons that are pretty obvious. He struggled to catch the football. He's been benched. He's got a smaller role. Now every time he catches a ball, it happens to be a touchdown. So maybe Jacksonville decides not to trade him away. But like you need that type of a receiver like somebody that's like, all right, we got to draw something up. Let's draw it up for this guy. Kenneth Walker's that guy, but he's a running back. You need to throw it. I just don't know that they have that player. So I'm going to get a bucket. Yeah, it's like they don't have that guy who's going to get a bucket on third down or in the red zone. I'm with you. I want to see what that looks like after the trade deadline. I still think they're a very good team. The Jaguars, I think are kind of similar to the Chiefs and that I feel like they can win in a variety of different ways their offense has been pretty consistent. And their defense kind of just thrives on creating chaos. You know, they're they're ways to get at them defensively. But I think most weeks, it looks pretty good. They're plus 85th point differential tops in the NFL. They're 18 and six in the regular season. Under Liam Cohen, I have some concerns about their offensive line, but I think that team can absolutely get to the Super Bowl. And then the bills were the final team there in my top tier were to your point. Defense still don't know about, but man, their offense, you know, they're a threat to score 30 points every single week. It doesn't matter who the opponent is. They've done it five times this year. They're producing explosive plays at the highest rate in the NFL. This bill's offense is outperforming all the previous versions with Josh Allen through eight weeks. If you look at the advanced numbers there, so I just like teams where I'm like, all right, things don't go their way. Can they still score in a hurry? I think the bills fit that bill. I think the bangles obviously fit that bill with the way they can score. So Billy, to me, the bangles are like they can beat anyone and they can lose to anyone. I think you saw that this week. It's just like they can hang 40 points on you and it doesn't even feel like they're playing that well. And then they just leap walk through entire halves where you're like, are we sure this is even a playoff team? So yeah, I'm a little concerned about them, but I do still like them. I wish I could just feel a little bit better about what they do defensively. It almost honestly makes me wonder like Joe Perro just want to make things harder for himself just to see what he can get out of like does he want like I mean for three receptions of the same guy, but then also I have five passing touchdowns and I'm going to rush for a touchdown and overtime to win the game. Like, it seems like he makes things more difficult than they have to be for him. She'll of these tears are you saying am I reading too much into what you're saying? Do you have the bills even though you have three teams in that first year? Do you have the bills above the other teams or you'd have three of them on equal footing? See, this is the thing about tears. You don't have to rank. This is why everyone has moved to the tears because you're not putting a number next to it, but I'm not a coward. Yes, I think if you're like, Sheila, you got to pick you get to pick one team right now. Who's it going to be? I would still probably say I'm going to bet on Josh Allen, even though that has not worked well in previous years, but I'm like best offense, best player, maybe their defense can be good enough. I think I probably feel as good about them as any other team. Best record in the NFC still belongs to the Vikings, but no longer among the ranks of the unbeaten pop those corksdolphins. Just talking about the Vikings, their quarterback situation, also giving them to the cowboys blowing that lead and a lot more after this. Ulcerative colitis and Crohn's disease symptoms don't pause for the moments that matter. That's why understanding your treatment options matters. Discover what's possible with Trampaya. Guselcomap. Trampaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur. Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine. Talk to your doctor and explore what's possible, or call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more about Trampaya and visit trampayaradio.com. This episode is brought to you by Core Power Protein Shakes. In football, staying ready isn't just about what you do on game day. Good recovery is just as important to be prepared for your next matchup. Core Power Protein Shakes help you keep going after your workout with high quality protein to build muscle and electrolytes to help hydrate. This shake has all your recovery needs in one bottle, available in 26g and 42g protein options. Visit CorePower.com to learn more. Lions beat the Vikings on Sunday in a game that there's a bunch of different storylines. First and foremost, Jack Campbell going down. That was one of the more frightening scenes that I can remember on a field. We kind of get numb to players being strapped to backboards being taken off when you see Aiden Hutchinson with tears rolling down his face and like the emotional reaction. The tone of how they've talked about it, nerging everyone to pray for Jack Campbell. It's a serious situation and I can only imagine what it's like to go out there and try to play football after watching, you know, your friend be taken off the field. To the Lions credit, they did it and they finished off the Vikings team that I think you saw, you know, maybe a few holes poked that we hadn't seen on either side of the ball to this point. I mean, defensively they ran for I think 230 yards in that game on the number one defense in the NFL from Minnesota and a Lions defense that had struggled so bad this season. I don't even want to say that they made life difficult on the Vikings because there were a bunch of times where Kyler Murray uncorks pastoral wide open Justin Jefferson and the ball goes 10 feet over his head. Kyler made some big throws too. I mean, the post to Addison, the Seamball to Hawkinson, like he did some good things but when Justin Jefferson is showing emotion on the sideline, not talking to reporters, Barkin at a fan, a viral internet video shield. Like I have known Justin is entire career. Like he is very frustrated with what's going on right now. Kyler's also dealing with a hamstring, so we'll see if he's even available to play Monday night against the bills. If not, it'll be Carson Wentz. Once again we're talking about a Vikings team that's pretty good and have a lot of QB questions that they have to confront her moving forward. That was one where you felt like against that Lions defense, you really wanted to see them perform better. It's like this has been a bottom three defense all season long. Kyler's got some reps under his belt. You've got Justin Jefferson in this game. Let's go out there and make a state bed that we're not going to be a top five offense, but yeah, we can score enough points to beat this Lions team and they just didn't do it. And I just left that game thinking, man, it's fair to question if what they're sealing is, if this is what their offense is going to look like. And you know, I looked at the box score afterwards and like Kyler Murray statline wasn't bad. And I'm like, I don't think he played well in that game to your point. I mean, Brady was calling it out, you know, in that game that it's just like that's a throw. He has to make. He's, you know, his first read is open here and he's not letting go of the football 15 first downs, 266 yards in that game. They can't really run the ball. So statistically, there are bottom three, bottom five offense by pretty much any metric you look at. And I know Billy asked you about Kurt Cousins earlier, is that just a fair question to ask or not a fair question to ask that because this just feels like from, from outsiders, it just feels like the most you're just like, should they just trade for Kurt Cousins? And it's like Kurt Cousins, this system, he knows it, Justin Jefferson, this Deepa, just go for it this year. It's not like it's costing you three first round picks or anything. If that's something even worth discussing, or are you like everybody should just kind of forget that idea right now? When you're playing historically, great defense yesterday, now was standing. You have to look at what's causing you to not be as productive on the air side of the ball. I think that's natural. This game, unlike some others, there have been times this year where clearly, Kyler's being told, okay, just be conservative, you know, throw the ball out of bounds if it's not there. Take the check down. Yesterday, there's just, there's turn down throws where, you know, it might be the backside option on a run plate of the right and he's got Justin Jefferson wide open on a slant and it's probably going to be a touchdown. Kyler not being a big quarterback, there's times where as he concerned, the ball's going to get battered. Is it he doesn't have the vision? There's other times where, like I said, guys are open and he's just missing. He's throwing off his back foot. Again, I don't know if that's because he's just learned to play quarterback that way because he is smaller and you have to get it over the offensive lineman. But it just looks like as much as he seems to be functioning and seeing it at a decent clip, like the ball's not going where it's supposed to go. If I'm a coach, I can work with that. I can work with, hey, we just, you know, throw the ball better. That's where I really a coaching point. It's like, okay, just, you know, kind of call yourself down and make the throws. But the question that you bring up about Kirk Cousins, Sheila, I think is a valid one because Kirk is playing at that level. Again, I don't know, ultimately what it would take to get him probably more than the Vikings would be willing to give up right now. For any other quarterback, you have to ask, are they that much of an upgrade? Not over Kyle Murray, but over Carson Wentz. Let's say Wentz has to play for a bit here. Well, Murray's out with a hamstring and he plays well. I don't know that it's his shoe and that they just go back to Kyler. They're, they're trying to find a hot hand and get things rolling. You know, if you trade for I know Daniel Jones, that's been another one that everybody's brought up. It's like, Daniel Jones threw like 56 yards against the Vikings a couple of weeks ago. It's not like you're, oh, man, this is so much better. And I like Daniel. And he was with Kevin O'Connell. Like it, it makes some intellectual sense. But is the Daniel Jones are getting right now coming off the Achilles? Better than what you would get for Carson Wentz out there. Like that's the stuff you have to weigh out, Billy, especially when you're talking about potential trades because it's not just okay. Let's go get somebody. It's like, how much better are they than what you have? Like how far above, you know, replacement are they? And then what are we giving up? How does that impact our cap and everything else? It's, it's complicated. But clearly, they've got to get better offensively. And there's only one position where you can really change everything about what you do. Well, I think part of his frustration too probably is you need a quarterback that's just competent enough, right? Like he's just good enough because the defense is so good that you need someone that's just better than what they have right now. And they committed to Kyler, you know, by trading away JJ McCarthy. And some people thought, okay, well, they've kind of just given up on JJ. Maybe JJ's not good out. And granted, it's only been one or two weeks, but he's, he's looked decent in New York, right? So now you're looking at you're like, well, maybe we committed to Kyler a little bit too soon. And then you add that to the frustration of, well, they let Sam Darnold walk. And then he goes and he wins a Super Bowl. And is he the greatest quarterback out there? Like, no, he's not, but he's good enough to help the Seahawks win the Super Bowl. And your defense is better than the Seahawks defense. So could he have not been good enough to help you win a Super Bowl? Had you committed to him? So I feel like with Justin, it's not just a one week thing. It's a, they've been so close to getting over the edge and getting to the next level. And it seemed like on paper, wow, look at them. They're undefeated. They're great. They play the lions. Their offense didn't look as good to what you guys are saying as it should have against one of the worst defenses in the league. And that is something that can kind of set off the panic alarms, where it's like, if we can't do it against one of the worst defenses in the league, how are we going to do it when we get to the playoffs who are facing far better defenses? And we can't beat the bad teams or the bad defenses. And for Justin Jefferson too, like his goals always, you know, it starts with a gold jacket like he wants to be a Hall of Famer. He takes, you know, his ability to get 1,000 yards every season very seriously. They give him more targets yesterday. But when when the ball's not going anywhere, he can't make a play on it. I mean, Justin Jefferson's got one of the biggest catch radiuses in the entire NFL. When balls are going, he's not even like bothering jumping because they're so far over his head. That's where the stuff, you know, starts to come home to Bruce. Like the formula for the Vikings in my mind is it's the Legion of Boomerah Seahawks, which is you play really good defense. You run the heck out of the ball for three quarters. And then if you find yourself down by seven points in the fourth quarter, like there were, yes, it's, all right, Russell Wilson, like we need you to go take some moon balls. Tyler actually hit some of those. Again, like that ball to Addison, that's a really good throw to it with tight coverage. But if you're missing the layups over and over again, you don't get there. That's what rusted so well on all those Seahawks teams was don't turn the ball over and don't miss the easy throws. I know that got frustrated for us over time because he thought, I'm, you know, I'm never getting an MVP vote. I want to cut it loose. Let me throw the ball more. They did that for like half a season. Then he started turning it over and then Pete Carroll told Brian shot and I'm a stop throw in the ball so much. But like that, that's what you're trying to get Kyler to be. Now he's got a hamstring though. That raises an entire issue because like the difference he had kind of like Russ was the ability to get out and move around and extend plays. If he's not himself, he's not a hundred percent. I have to think she'll that they're going to lean on the car she went here just because Akali Murray without the run threat totally changes how defense is going to play. It's it's a tough stitch. I mean I was because I was thinking back to the preseason conversations we had about the Vikings and I thought they were going to make the playoffs and it wasn't like, oh, the Vikings are going to have an amazing offense. But man, it's got to be better than last year. Look at all the quarterbacks they cycled through last year. If you look at it statistically, Vikings fans who might want to cover your ears, they're worse offensively this year by EPA success, whatever you want to look at, then they were last year. Which that to me seemed unlikely when they got Kyler Murray and I wasn't like Kyler Murray's amazing, but I'm like, come on, he's going to be able to be like the 23rd best quarterback in the NFL and be competent enough. And it's it's not I understand it's not all him, but I think they're behind where you thought they were going to be. And it's just a matter of how many you know seasons can you get this type of defensive performance with Brian Flores where they look this good and it feels like it's wide open in the NFC and do you want to waste it? So yeah, whether it's when's whether it's cousins, cousins would be the most fun for content for me personally, as someone who is on a podcast three times a week. If Kurt cousins went back to Minnesota, I'm taking that team a lot more seriously. Tommy, you weren't lying earlier when you said he's given the Raider's top 10 quarterback play. That's I test film statistically. And it's not like he's got a loaded supporting cast in Vegas. I mean, he would have an upgraded supporting cast if he went to Minnesota and he's played with those guys before. So that would be the most fun for me. But yeah, to your point, I don't know that there will be a price that both sides agree to, but it If there was, that would be a nice solution for the Viking side. Well, how high could that price be because if you're looking at seeing kind of how things are playing out, they can win the NFC this year, right? Like they're good enough with that defense to win the Super Bowl, but how many chances are they going to get and how many are they going to let slip by because they don't want to pay a price that's too high? Like right now, the biggest issue is quarterback for them. And if they can find someone that they think will take them to the next step, is there a price that's too high because what if next year, the window starts closing, you know, Justin Jefferson not getting any younger, the defense isn't getting any younger and healthier. So at what point is the price worth paying? Well, that's also part of the problem, though, too, is, you know, Kirk. It's really a rental because he's got like a two year $80 million option. I think that's been picked up in March, so that's probably a non-starter. He's not going to have that picked up, although the way he's playing, who knows, but it would become harder for you to be able to do that like Daniel Jones. I don't know that you bring him in and you're like, this fixes our problem moving forward. You were hoping Kyler, even though he's got a no-tag clause, would kind of settle it down. At this point, to me, if you're the Vikings, the quarterback position specifically, you're worrying about 2026 and how do we get where we want to go this year? But you don't want to do that at the, you know, at the sake of all your resources to continue building the roster. No, he hasn't even run a draft, get hired in June like he hasn't had any chance to really put his stamp on this team yet. And now, I mean, what is the price for Kirk Cousins? I mean, I would think it's a second round pick at least. If you get into first round pick territory for a eight game rental, there's not many people who are willing to do that, even though financially, it's 10 million in change. It's just, it's a tough sell. But if he came back, I mean, it would be conquering hero status. How quickly could he get up to speed? He knows the offense. The run game has changed, but, you know, he more or less knows it. It's just, that's a tough balance, man. What you don't want to do, and I think this applies, Kevin O'Connell has been there. He's eaten a year or five, but for Nolan, it's year one. The most dangerous thing is you buy into work close in year one. And then you go all in on it and then it completely falls apart. I mean, look at Washington coming off that first season and they acquire more old guys and then they got old, really fast and it was a messy injuries. And they're still trying to kind of, you know, work their way back, you know, the giants right now. They're aggressive in the trademark. Like, are they really that good? Are they are running back away? Are they a, you know, a single player away? Like, I don't know that. So that's where you have to kind of, you know, try to find that balance, you know, for the, for the commanders, by the way, still live. They beat the Eagles last night. If they can win, I think they've got a Thursday night game against the giants on the other side of the game against the Rams this week. Like if they can beat the giants, they are right in it. And the NFC use this completely for grabs at this point. In part because the Cowboys shield, just time and again, I said on this show on Friday, you were making the ringer 107 picks and you had the Cowboys, correct? In the 90s. Yes. That's a win by half a point time. That's all I need. The only thing that makes me nervous is they have one of those games every year at home where they just lose and lose in baffling fashion to a team that they absolutely should beat. And I said, but they already had that game against the Bucks. So I don't think it happens here against the Cardinals and then sure enough, Gardner Minshew in the year 2026 comes off the bench in a 14 point deficit on the road and leads them back to I give Michael Flora that staff a ton of credit shield in terms of what they're doing in Arizona with not an ideal cast and Michael Wilson playing through broken ribs and everything, you know, Jeremiah love goes out early in the game again, Tyler Algier takes over. But for the Cowboys, it's just that there's been so many moments this year where you feel like, okay, they're going to find a way to finish games. They're going to find a way to get a defensive stop and it just week after week. It doesn't happen, which leaves Dallas in kind of a precarious position a week out from the deadline too. I think the best part for NF, if you're a fan of an NFC East team, you don't take joy in watching your own team. You like to just watch the rivals suck it up. Like I know Eagles fans, but that was the best part of our season so far was watching that Cowboys game. I'm sure commanders fans felt the same way. It's just like, I don't understand still how they lost that game. It took the Cardinals final six possessions with Gardner Minshew. The Cardinals weren't doing anything offensively, the game was over. It was over. Minshew comes in and they go touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, touchdown, punt field goal to end the game. Gardner Minshew, the Arizona Cardinals, a team that does not have the offensive roster that should ever be able to score four consecutive touchdowns. And it just felt like once that ball started rolling down the hill, you're like, the Cowboys can't force an incompletion. Like every pass I'm watching right now is complete for 15 yards downfield. So yeah, credit credit to the Cardinals, but that is, I think, Billy for the Cowboys. That felt like as bad of a loss as any teams had all season. Well, and they should have lost in regulation too, right? If it had, if it had this extra point, they shouldn't have even gone to the second life. Yeah. So they had a chance to come back. I mean, not to do the schedule again, but like Cowboys played tight in Siegel's Colts. They play the commanders, see how that one goes and they play the, I don't know why they would have the Rams here listed as like an easy opponent. I guess this is not updated, but they have an easier schedule if you're the Cowboys. And how much do we actually believe in the Giants? Like it's a fun story. But do we think that the Giants are really going to kind of outlast the rest of the competition for the rest of the season here? They're tough. I mean, they've had a lot of injuries, obviously, you know, dark going down and burns going down. And everybody was ready to shovel dirt on him at that point. Like John Arbol, like there's a reason that he had the longevity he did in Baltimore. She was like, he knows how to create a professional operation. He's pulled some strings, including a bench and running backs, cutting running backs through the course of the season. Um, he's done a really good job balancing it. To me, the question is just can Jay Jay McCarthy stay healthy? That's been the issue so far in his career. If he can, you've seen like the guy can play. He got that bounce. I don't know that he was ever going to play like that if they kept him in Minnesota. But the first start seemed to take the weight of the world off his shoulders. And he went out and played really good. If he stays healthy, I think they're going to have a chance because they've got, they've got some talented guys at the skill spots. It's not perfect, but they've got some talent there. And defensively, you know, they're playing really hard. They've got a couple of rushers like I don't think that I think they're a playoff caliber team, or they, you know, division champion, deserved to be hosting like the Seahawks in round one. I mean, you can certainly make the case, although there wouldn't be because the NFC South winner will probably have a worse record than whoever comes out of the East. How about that? Right now, the NFC South and NFC East combined have one team above 500. The NFC North and NFC West combined have one team under 500. That is, I can't remember seeing other standings, but like that shield before. I think the bucks are the best team at either of those two divisions. I really do. If you took the court back literally can't throw the ball, like you just can't throw it. They need to know over 300 yards. Unbelievable. They don't need to. They've completed seven passes in the last two weeks. And they're two and oh, and they've outscored their opponents 59 to 13 in those games. I really don't think for the rest of our life, we will see a stretch. I tweeted it out and someone's like, who says the stretch is over? Like, let's see, they'll do it again next week, but that is one of the most amazing stretches I remember seeing anytime in the NFL. But at least there's things they do well, you know, it's like they're good up front. They get bucky Irving. I mean, it has been fantastic this season. I love Billy. Do you see his quote about the weather? No, what do you say? He's like, I've never checked the weather for a football game. I have to play it. He's like, I'm going to have to show up and play regardless of what I checked the weather. Because I'm like, oh, I love this guy. This guy's fantastic, you know, yeah, take down all those meteorologists, but their defense has been fantastic. I know the weather was a factor in this game, but their defense has really played well this season. They can run the ball. Maybe at some point Baker may feel gets healthy, but if he doesn't, they don't even need to complete a pass and they can still win games. So I'm taking the box. They not trust Jayland Daniels, like, why if Baker's in such bad shape that he's wearing that glove with the thumb thing or whatever and he's throwing the ball through, I mean, granted, yesterday's weather was horrific and you saw what was happening when Michael Pettics was trying to pass the ball, what it disaster that was. So the weather definitely played a factor in that, but if he can't throw the ball and you're just going to have a run game, why have him out there and risk any more potential for injury? Because you trust, well, there's not, there's not a risk for more injury based on like what he's wearing on like they're not concerned about that, he gets a knee injury, he gets an ankle, whatever. Sure. It really comes down to they trust him to get him in the right play. You know, that's really it with Jayland Daniels, you know, there was, there were some things he did in structure. A lot of the place he made were kind of like, all right, he's scrambling and something's going to happen here. We don't want to know what it is. You know, the good news for the bucks is the buy, they got to buy in week 10. They have one more game before then. The bad news is it's at Chicago on Sunday night football. So they's got to hope down poor cats and dogs, just some type of a weather meltdown. Get through that one. Then you'd hope by the time they come out of the buy against the lions that they're going to be a little bit better. better shape from a health perspective. Thank you to everybody for watching and listening. This episode to this episode of the show we are back Wednesday. We had dust off model GM again, Billy with less than a week to the trade deadline. I mean, I have some suit jackets laying around. I got to use them for something. Well, we've we have a whole new frame of reference. Like I look back at like those that kind of recalibrated what the block bus. It was light. Yeah, I thought it was too much. It might have been too light. As soon as that I was like they definitely would have to be two ones at this point for Max Crossfield. Let's let's play and do that again Wednesday. Model GM cannot wait. Thanks again for all you for being here. Thanks to Chris or June of the whole team behind the scenes. A billion million dollars. I'm going to have to - 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas star casino, or 18 plus and present in DC or Wyoming, gambling problem called 1-800-Gampler, or 1-800-MyReset, call 1-888-789-777-777 or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 Hope and Y, or text Hope and Y in New York. 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