The Battle of the Sexes

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, it's Jo Interesting, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Christa Williams. It can change you in the best way possible, dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns, the embodiment of Pisces Intuition with Capricorn Power Moves. So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart. Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast, starting on February 24th on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm Clayton Nackered in 2022. I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him. If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one night stand would end in a courtroom. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agree to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Trap on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AGO WOTA is your host for the 2026 I Heart Podcast Awards. Live at South by Southwest. Hello, is anybody there? Raised by a single mom, AGO may have a few father related issues. Are we supposed to talk about your dad? Her podcast, Thanks Dad, is full of funny heartfelt conversations with actors, including fellow SNL alums, comedians, musicians, and more about life and their wonderfully complicated relationships with their fathers. I think and hope that's a good thing. Get to know AGO. Follow Thanks Dad with AGO WOTA and start listening on the pre-I Heart Radio app today. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. It's just two of us. And that's great because I'll be playing the role of Billie Jean King and Chuck is going to play the role of male showbiz and his pig Bobby Prince. Oh man. Hey, kid Chuck. Hey, before we get going on this one, I have a quick shout out. And this is coming out a couple of days after I did this because we're cutting it so close because of our week off last week, but that makes me happy because I was asked to print a mind's son, his name is Royce. He is a student at junior at Midtown High School here in Atlanta. And he has a teacher, Ms. Smolko, who was a longtime stuff he should know listener. And when Royce told Ms. Smolko like, "Hey, I know that guy. We're buddies. We got a hogs games together." She kind of flipped out and was like, "Oh my God. I wonder if he'd be interested in helping us out with our podcast program." Oh cool. And they set it up via email and I spent yesterday, which was in our world Monday at Midtown High School addressing the junior class, about 200 kids. And I got to say, man, it was an incredible experience. The students were into it. They were engaged. They had great questions. They had great answers. They were, a lot of it was sharing what they're doing with this podcast project, which is based off of stuff you should know, style stuff, which was super cool. These real philosophical questions that they're digging into and taking opposite sides and debating. And they were seeking advice. And it was just, it was an incredible experience. And I just, I left like on a real high about Gen Z and like where our future is headed. And it was just awesome. Great. So the broad strokes are Gen Z got chakai yesterday. Yeah. Yeah, they got me super high. It was really cool. They were all just amazing kids and Miss Moko was wonderful. And the other teacher, I think his name was Alex. I can't remember his last name. He was super nice and they're just like hats off to these teachers. What's going on at least at Midtown High School is amazing. And I just left feeling great. That was awesome. I think Royce is getting an A. You know Royce wasn't even there. He's a does like a late arrival thing because of like work study or something. And so I was like, dude, I texted him. It's like, where were you? And he explained the whole deal like he's not even allowed in school till later. So. They were. They were just things. Okay. But everyone was super nice and it was just it was so cool to see how into it everybody was. That's awesome. Where you go, Chuck? Oh, and real quick, there were a couple of students. I won't name them. I have permission to name Royce because he's a pal. But there were two legitimate big time stuff. You should know listeners in the junior class that came up after and said hello. And they were both like really, really nice. Awesome. Shout out thing one and thing two. That's right. Way to go, Chuck. You were basically a teacher for that moment. Well, you're kind of felt that way. Maybe one day when I retire, I'll just like go and teach for real. I'll let you borrow my tweed jacket with the sweet elbow fronches. The don't be done jacket. Wow. That's a big deal. You have to overlook all the stains on it. You're right. So we are talking about the Battle of the Sexes today, which I guess, I mean, this is a tough act to follow after your story, frankly. No, this is a great fun sort of pop culture history story and sports story. There was a movie about it just a handful of years ago starring Steve Carell as Bobby Riggs and Emma Stone as Billie Jean King, where they portrayed the very famous tennis match between a male showbiz and a pig and aging over the hill, hustler, tennis star that basically came out and said, you know what, men are better at women than everything. And an old me can beat a young champion and Billie Jean King. And let's do it on national TV at the Houston Astridome in front of a ton of people. Yeah. And that's what happened the end. That's right. So this was a really big deal. I mean, it sounds like just kind of light-hearted, maybe a bit of a joke. It actually still happens today, the Battle of the Sexes tennis matches. This was the first one and it was a very big deal for everyone involved. On the one hand, you had Bobby Riggs, like you said, over the hill. He was 55 and he was trying to. Oh, cool. He was trying to figure out two weeks. He was. Oh, that's right. The eyes of March are coming up. Oh, boy. Yeah, so over the hill, I get it. Okay. Although 55 in 1973 was a little different than 55 now, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't look like Bobby Riggs. But he was over the hill, not just necessarily because of his age. He'd just been so far out of tennis for so long. He was an attention-hound and he wanted to get back in the spotlight. So for him, this was a gambit. It was a lot of work to do it, but it was something he was trying to do. On the other side was Billie Jean King, who took this very seriously because to her, this was symbolic of women's rights, which she was a tireless fighter for, not just before this, but after for essentially her whole life still today. Yeah. She's great. Love Billie Jean King. She's a hero. Bobby Riggs, we'll talk about him in depth. We're not going to make excuses for the guy, but I will say Billie Jean King remained very good friends with him and never came out and said like, you know, I mean, when they were going at it, she was kind of playing him up as a male showbiz in this pig, which he was. But she would end up saying like Bobby Riggs was a man of his time and sort of a victim of being a man of his time. So she kind of went easy on him. I'm not sure I'm going to go so easy on him. Well, I saw in places that there's, it's questionable whether he actually like even believed most of the stuff he was saying, but all again, all this was a gambit. He figured out a really good way to get media attention. It was just be like the most loudmouthed show in this pig just saying the most offensive stuff and becoming loadsome to women that this would just generate more buzz and more height for what he was trying to do, which I mean, just doing that is a jet move. But it's not it's not set in stone that he was someone who actually harbored these feelings personally. So get a better mind while we're telling this story. Because a lot of people start realize that like anti feminists, a lot of men don't realize it and a lot of feminists don't realize it. They took it everything he was doing very seriously. But like you said, Billie Jean King didn't, which is a huge signal right there. Yeah. And just hit this just hit my brain. If I'm going to go hard on Bobby Riggs, then I also need to do the same to Andy Kaufman and his whole wrestling stick, which I think is one of the great funny kind of comedy bits. But it was kind of the same thing, like playing a role to get women riled up to get attention. Well, really, if we learned anything from this battle of sexist tennis matches, if you're going to go hard on Bobby Riggs, you need to go hard on Billie Jean King. Right. Should we go back to the early 70s and set the stage? Yes. Right. Early 1970s was, it was a pretty volatile time. It was a big time for women to start kind of standing up for real and saying like, hey, we, we want attention. We want rights. We want the same rights as men. Roe v Wade was decided in 73. The equal rights amendment was all over the news. In the case of sports, certainly 1972 with Title IX of the Education Amendments Act, that required schools to offer girls and women the opportunities to basically get equal funding and participate equally in athletics as boys and men. So it was a, it was a big time for women's advocacy and feminism and women's rights between like 19, certainly before that, but definitely between 1970 and like 1975. Yeah. Just as an aside, we did it if I may say so. We did a good episode on the equal rights amendment in 2021 called Why is the ERA still not ratified? Yeah. Which is true. Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big time. There's a lot of momentum for women's lib for feminism. It was also a big time for tennis, which was becoming really, really popular, especially in the United States. The number of Americans who played tennis tripled from 1970 to 1974. One of the reasons why is because the tennis world started holding opens. I never knew this before, but the US Open, the Australian Open, the reason they're called opens because they're open to all players. You can be an amateur, you can be a pro, and you can compete in these tournaments, an open tournament. That was brand new. I think Wimbledon was the first one to start it, I think in 1968. So a lot of really freaky, exciting stuff going on in the world. That's right. Billy Jean King was, and we should also point out that, you know, as far as wage disparity in 1968, if you were a professional tennis player, you earned two to three times as much as a woman. And when the sport grew, that gap actually grew. It didn't get more narrow, which was pretty startling at the time. The Billy Jean King was born in 1943, and by the time this event rolled around, she was huge. She had one 10 grand slam titles by 73. She was number one ranked tennis player six different times in 1973 was the 1972 sports illustrated sports person of the year. And like you said, was a real feminist activist, kind of from the jump. I think that was a story from when she was a kid, when she was 11 or 12, a junior player, she was not allowed to be in a photo, like a tournament photo, because she wasn't wearing the tennis skirt. She was wearing shorts. And they said, you can't be in this picture. And immediately little 12 year old Billy Jean King was like, what the hell? Yeah. She was like, these are scorts. They said that doesn't count. Right. That's not a thing yet. So yeah. And one thing about Billy Jean King from a bunch of stuff I read and saw about her is that like she's, she was tireless. And still it, she's a tireless activist for women's rights. Like she didn't ever slow down. And when you kind of learn about all the side stuff she did to promote women in tennis and women's rights in general. Like on top of that, bear in mind, she's one of the top tennis players in the world by dominating in tennis. So that takes a lot of practice, a lot of dedication. And she's doing all this other stuff at the same time. So she's like basically the definition of tireless. Yeah. And she was, she was doing this in the 1960s because all those accomplishments I mentioned was by 73. But in 1966, she was the number one women's tennis player in the world. And she was making $100 a week as a playground instructor at Los Angeles State College. So the money the athletes were making was not anything like it is today. And it was way, way worse for women. I think that first open you mentioned it, Wimbledon in '68. She won that tournament and won 750 pounds. Rodlayer the men's champion won 2000 pounds. And she was like in '68. She was like, this is totally unfair. What's going on? Yeah. And money comes up a lot. It was the reason why it's an easy shorthand to basically point out women's lesser treatment compared to men. That's also something that most people can just kind of wrap their minds around like, yeah, 750 pounds is a lot less than 2000 pounds, but they're both the champions. Well, that doesn't make any sense. So money is a big focus throughout this, but it's not just because everybody wants money, you know? Yeah, totally. So in 1970, Billie Jean King was like, we need to do something sort of official and sort of big here. So she looked to a woman named Gladys Heldman, who was the founder of World Tennis magazine. She was a very big prominent figure in the tennis world overall, obviously because of World Tennis. And also because she was at the time the mother of a very high ranked player named Julie Heldman. That was her daughter. So she was a good person to go to and they said, here's what we can do to make a splash. There's a tennis tournament coming up called the Pacific Southwest Open in LA where they're paying the prize purse for the men's champion is 12,500. The purse for the women's champion is $1,500, which I mean, looking back at the Wimbledon disparity, that wasn't too bad compared to this. Right. Yeah. And this was even after that. And they said, why don't we boycott this tournament? And Gladys Heldman said, you know what? Why don't we start our own tournament that competes with this tournament? And everyone went, ooh, this sounds exciting. Yeah. Yeah, that was a huge step beyond what they were originally thinking of. And so the US tennis association at the time they were called the US Law and Tennis Association also to, they were like, hey, go ahead and try that. But we are going to suspend you. You might ban you from tournament tournament play. We're going to erase your rankings. Like it's going to be a bad jam if you guys go off and form your own tournament. And that, it took a lot of bravery because not all women tennis players signed on for this. In fact, only nine, including Billie Jean King said, you know what? We're going to go do this anyway. And so they signed contracts with Heldman. And so they became pros on this other tour, which protected them from getting punished on the US LTA tour. And they started their own championship, which eventually was, I think, supported and sponsored by Virginia Slim cigarettes. Yeah, that's right. And we should mention that contract was for a dollar each. So they clearly were doing this to make a statement and not to make a ton of money. Right. But Philip Morris, yeah, they stepped in because there was a recent federal ban on advertising on TV and radio for cigarettes. And so they said, we got to get our name out there somewhere. So let's call this the, you know, we've got these Virginia Slims with its quasi feminist message. You've come a long way, baby. That was our ad slogan for a long time. And tennis, you know, the original nine is what they were called, those tennis players that went along or the eight that went along with Billie Jean King and said, they're like, yeah, I mean, we're athletes. It's a little weird to have a cigarette sponsor, but we need a sponsor. So we'll take it. And that tournament went over really well. And it was so successful that they said, Hey, why don't we start our own circuit? And they had the Virginia Slim circuit. There were eight more tournaments that they sponsored. And the original nine, you know, they initially did follow through with their threat to like ban them. The US LTA, yeah, the US LTA at the time. But they said, Oh, actually, they're doing so well over there. We're in trouble now. So we need to join forces and they gave up and they merged with the Virginia Slim events. Yeah. And I'm not usually one to defend tobacco producers, but I saw a PBS. I think American Masters clip that was interviewing some of the original nine. And they were like, Virginia Slim showed up like they knew how to market. They knew how to get buzz. They put a ton of money behind advertising and like, this was not like just a whatever thing to them. They were actually a really great sponsor for this. So yeah, they yes, these nine women and I think eventually more joined. They were like, if you won't include us, we're just going to go create our own thing. Like they worked at it like that and it actually paid off in in ACEs. Yeah, for sure. Um, uh, hey, you want to take a break? Hey, yeah. All right, we'll be back right after this. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty host of the on purpose podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award winning country music artist and one of the most authentic voices in music today. Luke opens up about success, self doubt, mental health and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight. I hate fame. I hate the word celebrity. I hate those words that you make me uncomfortable. But I think when you get to a certain point, the fame or the success or the influence, it just accentuates and exacerbates the inherent person that you are. The guy that says he's always going to be there and that will do anything to be there is the only guy that's not there. I'm in Australia when bow is born. My whole identity is that no matter what, I'm going to prioritize my wife and my children over my job. I dread the conversation with my son. What do you think you'd say? Listen to on purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHOT radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Joe Wintersdene, host of the Spirit.ar podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish Trafford said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian Visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius like are misunderstood. A son and Venus and Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership. He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity, and real life, this episode is a must list. Listen to the Spirit.ar podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppie. Lucy Leppie has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppie, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppie was. No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppie on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so where we left off, the original nine went off and formed their own Virginia Slim circuit. They were, you know, endangered the US LTA such that they partnered with them eventually. But money started flowing in a little bit. 1971, Billie Jean King was the first female athlete of any sport at all to make more than $100,000, a lot of money in 1971 dollars. Still a lot less than her peers on the male side of the equation. And so she was still, you know, banging that drum. She wasn't like, all right, our work is done. And in 1973 before Wimbledon that year, she got together in London where Wimbledon is in a hotel room with 63, I guess it was probably a large meeting room. 63 other women tennis players. And they said, all right, we're doing this today. We're going to form the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association. We're going to have an actual union in place where we can, you know, do what unions do and stick up for ourselves. Yes. They threatened to boycott like pretty much immediately after they formed the WTA. They said that they were going to boycott the US open if we don't get equal prize money for women and men. And I believe that was successful. And it was, this is like things are moving along for women's equality in tennis at this time, right? So it's a huge focus of conversation with tennis. Yeah. I mean, it was all over the media everywhere you looked. It was about sort of equal pay, equal rights. And that was in the regular world and all of a sudden it was now like in the sports world in a big way. Well put. So now we can talk a little bit about our, our, I'm going to put it in scare quotes. Our villain, Mr. Bobby Riggs, who was, I tell you what, man, I mean, if you, it is very Andy Kaufman-esque. If you watch interviews with this guy, he's enough. If he's nothing, he is entertaining. For sure. He was a true great tennis player at one time shortly after World War II. I think he was the number one men's player in 1946 and 1947. And not just from like December to January, like both of those years. Right. Yeah. So he had, you know, the, the goods to back up like this. It wasn't just some, some dude who had a tennis racket. But after the late 40s, he essentially like left the tour and he started hustling and taking bets from essentially anybody who would, who would play him in tennis pool. I think you saw a 60 minutes clip where he was gambling on throwing cards into a waste basket. Like he would bet on anything. There was a quote in that 60 minutes clip where he said, he likes to play for big money. If he can't play for big money, he'll play for small money. If I can't play for small money, I won't get out of bed that day. Like that's just what that guy did. He gambled the hustle and he was known as a loud mouth too. But he also seems to be fairly loved essentially. He was like one of those people that you just kind of, you couldn't help but like even though, yeah, he was a loud mouth and trying to get you to bet him some money. Yeah. He was a troll. They've called him a pre-internet troll. And that's exactly what he was. It seemed like a bit of an act and a bit of a stick to get attention, like we said. But he would say things, you know, a woman's place is in the kitchen in the bedroom and not necessarily in that order or women play 25% as good as men. So they should get 25% of the money men get. I was reading, I think it was a, oh, was it a square or something, an article about him. And the whole idea of playing Billie Jean King was birth when I think a reporter was just talking to him about, you know, can men beat women or who could beat Billie Jean King and tennis. He said, I think any guy in the top 100 could beat Billie Jean King and he went, in fact, I think I could beat her. And that's sort of when he seemed to hatch this idea for publicity and money. Yeah. He was like, oh, but there's good action there. Yeah, totally. He, so yeah, so like he said these things actually, at least one of those quotes is from one of his autobiographies. Yeah. So like he wrote the stuff down. He wasn't, this wasn't just stuff he started saying when he decided to play Billie Jean King. And he was like, oh, he's a male showmanist. Yes, he was an attention hound. And this was, again, a way that he figured out how to do this. So he started publicly challenging Billie Jean King. He's like in his mid 50s. She's in her late 20s prime. And she's like, now that's okay. I'm too busy. And again, remember, she was genuinely tireless organizing the Virginia Slim circuit and like creating the Women's Tennis Association all the while waiting all of these championships and grand slams. So she had a legitimate excuse like I'm too busy. The thing is, there was also like a case you could make that she saw very clearly like, I don't know if I have that much to gain by playing this. And I have a lot to lose for the women's movement. I could easily set it back if I lose. So there was a, she had good reason to kind of avoid this as long as she could. Yeah. It's sort of a lose, lose proposition for her. If she beats them, everyone's like, well, of course she beat this old man. Right. And that's how he probably would have played it up as, and well, we'll see what happened. But, and if she loses, that's of course, like looks terrible to be beaten by the old man. Right. So she was wise to avoid it, I think. But there was another woman. In fact, she was the, I think she was the number one player in the world, the Women's Player in 1973, named Margaret Court and Ozzy. And she was like, she wasn't super active in the politics of women's sports. And she was like, yeah, sure, I'll play him. She stepped right up and in May of 1973, this was in San Diego or outside San Diego. They played a three set match. We're $10,000 and about 10 million people, a lot of people tuned into the first one on CBS, 3,500 people were there live. And he beat her. He beat her 6261 by playing. I want to say a certain thing, but I can't. He was playing like a punk. Oh, yeah. He was playing junk shots and like drop shots. And he wasn't playing like sort of real tennis. He was playing sort of joke tennis. And when you're playing against a player that can hit aggressive, strong shots and you're just plunking him over the net, like it's going to, you can't play tennis that way if you're a real player. And it threw her off her game. She got in his head. I think the moment was a little too big for her. I don't think she realized how much attention there was going to be. And she ended up getting beat pretty badly. Yeah, he got in her head, right? Yeah. So, yes, it's called the Mother's Day Massacre because it was held on Mother's Day. And I mean, it was really bad. But there's a point that I want you to hang on to for later. As much of a punk as he played, he didn't play actual serious tennis. He was playing jokey tennis to win. He took that match very seriously. He trained for months ahead of time. He was playing or training like 10 to 12 hours a day every day. He really trained. And by the time he was, by the time the game came around, he knew he was going to beat Margaret Court. So just keep that in mind. How hard he trained for that, okay? Yeah. And also, we should point out like at the very beginning of that match to open it up, he presented her with a bouquet of roses and she curtsied back to him. And Billie Jean King is watching this just like, you know, furious inside. Like she's like, he's played, and she in fact said later that she played right into his hands there and I would have grabbed him and kissed him. If he gets dirty, I can get tough too. So she hated the fact that Margaret Court went out there and sort of curtsied to him and took the roses and then lost on national TV, I guess international TV. And so she was like, all right, you know what? I'm going to do it. I'm going to step up and I'm going to play Bobby Riggs. It's my turn. Yeah. So she agreed to do this and it became immediately buzzworthy. I guess is what you would call it if you're into that kind of thing. That's right. The liver versus the lava is how they dubbed it. Yeah. So like I said, it's immediately generating buzz. Bobby Riggs starts giving television interviews to any camera that will stay in still long enough. And he's a magnet for that kind of stuff. And he's again, he's a loud mouth. He's saying horrible things about women. He's accepting like the male show venous pig, moniker, like with pride or whatever. And he's just like one of those like he would talk a mile a minute. He had so much energy. It was just a little, a little kind of squirrely guy kind of like Richard Simmons. Did you ever see Richard Simmons when he would go on Letterman? Oh, yeah. Okay. So it's great. The way that Letterman kind of regarded Richard Simmons. Yeah. And he was also like, this guy's he's moving around a lot. Yeah. He was like that, but amped up on like speed essentially. So he was a magnet for cameras and he was giving interviews all over the place. Yeah. And he was also, you know, he's adding hype for the event obviously by saying things like, you know, she's a woman. They don't have the emotional stability. She'll choke. He added more stakes. He said that he would jump from the London Bridge in Arizona or the Pasadena Bridge if he lost. And you know, he was all over the place. He was on the cover of Time Magazine that year in September. It was a caricature of him wearing a male showbizness badge and then there was a picture of a pig and a banner that said the happy hustler. So it was all working exactly as he planned. But Billie Jean King, like if he took that first match seriously, he didn't take this one as seriously. And Billie Jean King was really taking it seriously. Yeah, I'm not sure if he was just, you know, resting on his laurels because of how badly he beat Margaret Court that he just assumed that that was going to translate into playing Billie Jean King. But he did not train nearly as much as he did for Billie for Margaret Court. Essentially, he was out partying in the lead up to all of this. He was also really, really getting more and more offensive as things went on, right? Oh, you're going to leave this one for me. Yeah, one of the things he did was he showed up to practice one day with the cameras there with holes cut out in his shirt. So his nipples could show. And he said that Billie Jean King would look better in this. And she came out in public and she was like, this guy is a creep, which was, you know, about as tough as you could be in language back then. Yeah, and he was in a press conference with them together and he said, well, you should take that back. And she said, nope, creep stands. And she said later I saw in an interview, she said that like she didn't take him seriously, but she knew that there were men out there that took him seriously in that area across the line. And she needed to make sure that that was demonstrated that she was not okay with that one. Yeah, I think she kind of played it all just right. It was really pretty savvy stuff on her end. For sure. So I say we take, is this our second break? Yeah, second break. All right. So the gun is going to go off when we come back. Hey, I'm Jay Chetty, host of the on-purpose podcast. I'm joined by Luke Combs, award-winning country music artist and one of the most authentic voices in music today. Luke opens up about success, self-doubt, mental health and what it really takes to stay true to who you are when your life changes overnight. I hate fame. The guy that says he's always going to be there and that we'll do anything to be there is the only guy that's not there. I'm in Australia when Bo is born. The whole identity is that no matter what, I'm going to prioritize my life and my children. Over my job, I dread the conversation with my son. Listen to on-purpose with Jay Chetty on the IHOT Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Dollar podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. I just sat down with a mini driver. The Irish traveler said when I was 16, you're going to have a terrible time with men. Actor, storyteller and unapologetic, aquarium visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom-loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements and Aquarius are misunderstood. He really has taught me to embrace. You're sleeping in different rooms on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all. If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must listen. Listen to the Spirit Dollar podcast starting on February 24th on the IHOT Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppy. Lucy Leppy has been found guilty. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppy, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it, to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppy was. Listen to Doubt, the case of Lucy Leppy on the IHOT Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I wonder how many people are like, what is he talking about when he keeps saying the gun is going to go off whenever act three comes around? Well I would say, study your check off friend. That's right. Not your check off friend. Your check off comma friend. Right. Not the friend that you're like, I got to hang out with him and then you do real quick, you check him off for to-do list, not that guy. Yeah, we all check off friends. Yeah, I'm sure I'm a lot of people's check off friends. No, no, no, no. All right, so where are we? Are we at matchtime basically, which was turned into a complete circus, by the way? Yes, this is September 20th, 1973. Is that the Houston Astrodom? No, man. 30,000 people showed up in person to see this. I saw all over the place, including Britannica, that 90 million people watched it around the world. That's, yeah. I think Olivia had 50 million people, but I watched an interview with her with, I mean, serious journalist. It was, it was Kathy Lee and Hoda. And they said 90 million and they were just drunk on white wine at nine in the morning or whatever. So I trust them. It was a weird time, wasn't it? That was a very weird time. I did want to point out that I looked up, I was like, well, how many people see a tennis tournament at like the grandest age? And Center Court at Wimbledon is about 15,000 people. So this was double that. Wow. Yeah. Plus it was in the beautiful new Astrodom. Oh, yeah. So great. So the odds were very much in favor on Bobby Riggs. The odds were six to one that Riggs would win. And this was like the whole thing was kind of presented in the media as like the battle of the sexist thing, the man versus woman and every juvenile joke or, you know, quip or whatever, you could make out of that. That is how the whole thing was being promoted. That's how it was being played up in the media. It was not like this is a very serious thing that they set women's, women's rights back or move them forward. It was right. Right. It was in there. It was all just this almost tongue in cheek approach to it. And that's how the whole thing, if you were a viewer, that's what you were kind of shown. Yeah. For sure. And that's a good thing to point out. There was Hollywood was involved. There were a lot of actors and singers and stuff that were in a celebrity tournament beforehand. They were really milking it. When they came in, the University of Houston band performed the song Conquest, which is an anthem from the 1947 movie Captain from Castile. That's when Bobby Riggs came in. They played Helen Reddy's "I Am Woman" when Billie Jean King came in. Livia pointed out that John Wayne, Bill Cosby and O.J. Simpson were in attendance. And I had probably 13 different comments or jokes written out for that, but I'm just going to let that trio stand without comment. Stand on its own. Yeah, I think so. So ABC made a fat $1.2 million off of ads for this match. Astridome got about half that and people paying admission price. And so with the Margaret Court Mother's Day Massacre game that was played under women's rules in that there were three sets. That's how women's tennis matches are played. Three sets. Men's tennis matches are played five sets. Billie Jean King was like, "No, we're going to play five sets. Best of five, essentially." I love it. So there were five sets. Which is smart. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yes, another thing that you'll see that's happened recently is sometimes so a woman's court might be smaller than the man's court, which makes it harder for the man to land a ball in in bounds. Like in a battle of the sexist match. Yes, thank you. There was nothing like that. This was like a men's match that Billie Jean King was playing against Bobby Riggs. Oh, yeah. Well, she was like, I got this 55 year old guy. I like, he wants the three set match. So we're going to go five because I'm in great shape. Right. Riggs enters on a carriage pulled by women that are outfitted as Bobby's bosom buddies. How did Billie Jean King come in? She came in on basically a platform carried by men and togas. I also saw as Egyptians, like Egyptian servants. They were shirtless, essentially, and they were brawny dudes. So like, both of them are not her idea. No, but she was going along with it, right? Yeah, she played along. Yeah. Well, you were saying that she was taking it seriously and she was. And she was also like willing to play along with this too. Like she wasn't just some like sticking the mud, you know? Yeah, totally. So just very appropriately, Bobby Riggs was sponsored by Sugar Daddy Candy. Right. And he presented Billie Jean King with a two foot long Sugar Daddy. Remember those? They were just pulling feelings right out of your head. Totally. And so King was like, I have a gift for you too. It was a piglet that she named Bobby Riggs because he was a male show venous pig. And don't worry about the pig. She coordinated with the promoter Jerry Perenchio, very legendary promoter, that the pig would not be eaten or harmed. It would go to live on a farm afterward. And it did. That says everything you need to know about Billie Jean King. Yeah. She thought of everything. She did. She crossed her teeth and dotted her oinks. Right. So of course, it's 1973. So you want to get the best in the business at the time to do the play by play. So they got none other than Howard Cossell. Initially, they had a tennis promoter and anti feminist named Jack Kramer, who was going to do, they were going to do sort of a he versus she commentary. And he was going to be on rig side. And one of the original nine, Rosie Cassal's was going to be on Billie Jean King side. But Kramer, and this also speaks to Billie Jean King. She was one of the guys behind that original tournament that they that they protested and wouldn't play in the Pacific Southwest open where they said, oh yeah, well, we're going to ban you then. So she was like, hey, this is all fun and games and everything. But if that jerk is involved, I'm not even going to do this. So they pulled Kramer off the off the broadcast. Yeah. And they didn't have Rosie Cassal speak to. And I'm really glad they didn't do that. That's, I mean, that's a, it's a gimmick. It's understandable, but it would have made the whole thing suck. They brought in Jean Scott, who was the publisher of tennis week. And he just gave commentary like it was a regular tennis match, which is kind of what he wanted in this one. Agreed. So I mean, imagine Dennis Miller and Dennis Miller calling a tennis match. You don't want that. Yeah. I mean, think about it. Whose idea was it to put them on Monday night football on the one hand? It's brilliant. On the other, it's like, what? Yeah, that was weird. But it was elastered for years, too. It's not like it was a couple of games. Yeah. No, he, I think it was a full season, wasn't it? I think it was more than that. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the game is on essentially. That's, that's the point we've reached here. That's right. So Bobby Riggs takes the three to lead in the first set. And later on, Billie Jean King would say like, I was in trouble. I knew I was making some mistakes. I was in my head a little bit. And I knew that I could not give this first set away, basically. Like he needed to get that set for his psychological standing. And so that first set was so, so important for her. So she knew that she had to win it. She was down three to and she came back and beat him and won that first set six to four, which was a huge blow to his psyche. Yeah. She said that she could tell that that had gotten to him when they switched sides. So she also changed her playing style. Normally she would be like, she'd want to win the point as quickly and efficiently as possible. Instead she started drawing ballies out and basically put the ball in one corner and then put the ball in the other corner. So she had this old man running back and forth chasing down these balls to purposefully tire him out. I mean, that's just so cool that people are capable of doing that. You know, like I want the ball to go right here. So I'm going to make it go right there with this racket, even though the ball's coming at me at 70 miles an hour. Yeah, for sure. So she wore him out by the end. He was talking about hand cramps. The levity had kind of lessened because like you said, this 55 year old was an old, old man. Right. So remember we saw old. Right. Not 54 or 55. Oh, okay. Okay. I got a couple more weeks. Billy Jean King won and she won like convincingly 64, 636, 6363. So remember best out of five. She beat him in three straight sets. And she got her 100,000 check from no less than George Foreman who I read had hoped to use Bobby Riggs the pig to demonstrate his new type of indoor grill. That was just a point that he wasn't allowed to. Oh, no. And so this was it was just an immediate splash. Remember this is a media spectacle. Everybody knows about this 90 million people are watching. So the media just got right in on it again to let everybody know. Billy Jean King won and let's celebrate her as a pro tennis player. And that's it. That's right. I think we know Josh's coy voice by now. That's not at all how it was reported, of course. They kept reporting it sort of in the lowest common denominator way. The AP said that screaming delirious women's libers lit up more brightly than the rocket shooting Astridone scoreboard. Even my beloved New York Times said King collapsed tears in her eyes and her husband's arms adding later all of a sudden she was a champion, a woman and a little girl all at the same time. That one brings like my eyes water from that one. Yeah, that's tough. That's so much worse than the Astridone scoreboard, right? I mean, neither one are great. Yeah. And they just like they meant that they were trying to like really be poignant there. And it's just like, good God. Yeah, they missed the mark. The thing about Bobby Riggs is he wasn't like, well, she, you know, she obviously is some freak woman who beat me. That's the only woman who could beat me. He did the opposite. He he accepted the defeat with dignity and grace. Yeah. He had a thing where he hopped over the net winner lose after the end of every match. And he did. He hopped right over the net and went up to her and he said, um, confidentially to her that he underestimated her. Yeah. And then in the press conference, he went on to basically say the same thing like she beat him very clearly. Yeah. He said she was too strong for me. There have since been rumors that he threw the match as a gambler with six to one odds against that he threw the match and bet against himself. There was a report in I think 2013 ESPN dug into that and that there were like mafia figures he was working with to rig the odds. We'll never know the truth, but Bobby Riggs said he didn't throw it. Billy Jean King said that I don't think he threw it like she could tell what was going on emotionally on that court and could tell that he wanted to win and that he was losing. You know, he might not have prepared like he should have. And I guess we'll never know the truth, but my money's on cheap, cheap, beat him. Yeah, my two, but there's, there's the rumor does have legs like he did hang out with mob guys. He was a huge gambler. The idea was that this, he was indebted to the mob like a hundred grand for in gambling debts and they would wipe it clean if he threw this and that he was also betting on himself. And his son said, it's possible. I don't really think that's true, but it's possible. Well, those best friends is like, I won't even entertain that that's possible. Like he just didn't do that. But one of the things that people point to is he was making some terrible mistakes during the game. So either she got in his head and he was rattled or he was throwing it. It just seems like the general consensus is that now he, it seems pretty fringe that to genuinely believe that he threw the match. Yeah, I agree. But I saw a bit to that movie. I never saw the whole thing. The casting was incredible. Like Steve Carell and Emma Stone were kind of perfect. I don't think the movie was reviewed like super favorably, but it looked okay. It was supposedly very true to life actually. Yeah, yeah, Billie Jean King released. She told Hoda and Kathy Lee that it was pretty true to life. She said that she said they got the essence of it. She said it's a movie, of course, but they nailed the essence. Man, have you seen Bagonia? Oh, boy. Yeah. That is one of my new favorite movies. That is so good. I did not like, I can never remember his name. What is it? I'm glad you watched that. Oh, Jesse Plyments. No, no, no, the director. Oh, oh, oh, uh, Yorgas Lantamos. Thank you. Wouldn't that help me? Let me try saying it too. Yorgas Lantamos. I don't think I've ever tried it because I've always been like, I'm going to screw this up. Well, I might have screwed it up, but that's what I said. I don't think so. I think you got it. Anyway, I did not like poor things. And I was like, I don't know, because I liked everything leading up to that, but not this. And then I saw this. I'm like, he's back. Yeah. It's a great movie. Yeah, I told you I texted you to see kinds of kindness, do you see that one? I still have not. No, I've been watching just tons of riff tracks. Yeah. It's hard to get out of the cycle. What you get in sure. All right. So back to this after the back to the battle of the sexes, after this, he wanted to kind of keep the media spotlight on him. So he tried to jump off the London Bridge in Arizona, but the sheriff there. So like, he can't do that. So he had his picture taken on the lake, blow it in a raft. Billie Jean King went on to just keep being Billie Jean King in 1974. She found the Women's Sports Foundation, which is a nonprofit for women's and girls and athletics. And she would end up sort of very publicly coming out of the closet after being married for a long time to guide not the Larry King, but her Larry King. Right. In 1981, her longtime manager and assistant, Marilyn Barnett, it was very sad what happened. She filed a lawsuit against her, which revealed their affair that she had from, they had from 72 to 79 because she had fallen from a balcony of Billie Jean King's house in Malibu and lost the use of her legs and said that, Hey, Billie Jean King promised to give me that house and support me financially. So she took her to court and it got really messy. Yeah. So the fall from the house in Malibu, I saw it was an attempted suicide and that she had black, Marilyn Barnett had black male Larry King and Billie Jean King before the lawsuit basically said, Hey, if you don't want this to come out, let's settle before I actually go public with it. They didn't. She went public with it. And then to her great credit after being outed in 1980, what? 1981. 1981. Billie Jean King said, You know what? We never promised her the Malibu house, but yes, I'm gay. Larry and I have an open marriage and we're actually going to stay together for the time being and they stayed together until 1987. And they divorced because Billie Jean King fell for Elana Claus, a fellow tennis player and they ended up getting married in 2018. So this is enormous. She was outed. She hadn't outed herself. She had her choice to do so was removed, but she stood behind it. She didn't deny it. She didn't deny who she was. She said it. Yep. I'm gay. Yeah. It was pretty great. As far as equality and pay and pro sports, this obviously still a thing. It was 2007 when all the grand slams agreed to pay women equally in tennis and they still don't and some of some of the other big events. I think just a couple of years ago, the 2024 Canadian open, there was a $5.9 million pool for the men and $2.5 million pool for women. And if you come back with an argument of like, yeah, well, the men's events are, they get more viewers and more advertising because they're in those better time slots, then you kind of just set it yourself. It's a lot of it has to do with the fact that they're in those better time slots and they tend to schedule the women's events in lesser time slots. And so they don't get as much advertising. They don't have a great maternity leave and professional tennis for women. So it's, you know, there's still battles to be fought, but Billie Jean King is still out there fighting them. One last little thing, Chuck, that always struck me before he died in 1995. I think like the night before he died, Billie Jean King visited Bobby Riggs to say goodbye. Yeah. It was pretty great. They had a lifelong, you know, tie and friendship. So that's it. That's the battle of the sexist. It was, it was great. How about that? Yeah. I feel like, I feel like Tim Robbins and anchor man. Remember the Pete, he's like, you know, we at PBS are really done with women's lip. Yeah. Also Steve Perot was in that. Yeah. He loves lamp. He loves lamp. Uh, since Chuck said he loves lamp, I tricked him into it. He just unlocked listener mail. Yeah. This is listener mail where I'm going to apologize to EFA from Ireland because apparently we have here and there, um, dabbled in Irish erasure in our show, which is something that is a total accident and something that I'm going to be more aware of moving forward. And here's the email. Okay. Hi guys, long time listener here. I'm so sad to hear two Irish erasure moments in one episode. In the third band syndrome episode, you use the example of the endurance expedition to show how it works. You called Ernest Shackleton, British. And if I'm not wrong, also Tom Creen, but both men were reborn in Irish. Shackleton was born in Kilky County, Kilder. Did I say that right? I think I did. You said Kilky. Yeah, Kilky County, Kilder, just under an hour from Dublin City. And Creen was born in Anna Skull County, Carrie. This is a sore spot for Irish people as we are often, so often called British. We don't take it so well. Example, look up Kilian Murphy also being called British. But we will forgive you, however. And that is from IFA. And IFA, that is me being an ignorant person. And I certainly know there's a difference. And I have a hard time keeping track sometimes, but I need to do better with that. So apologies. Nice work Chuck. I'm sure I've done that before too. So I want to apologize too. Great. Two apologies. In one. Yes. And who is that from? That was from IFA spelled A-O-I-F-E. Beautiful. Thanks a lot, IFA. And if you want to be like IFA and call us out on something, we stand for that. You can send it in an email to [email protected]. Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, it's Joe Interstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend, Crystal Williams. It can change you in the best way possible, dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns, the embodiment of Pisces Intuition, with Capricorn Power Moves. I'm going to send to the Spirit Daughter podcast, starting on February 24th, on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm Clayton Nekkerd, in 2022. But here's the thing, Bachelor fans hated him. The media is here, this case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. I'm Stephanie Young. Listen to Love Traped on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Raced by a single mom, Ego may have a few father related issues. I think it helped that's a good thing. Get to know Ego. Follow Thanks Dad with Ego Woda and start listening on the pre-I Heart Radio app today. Guaranteed Human.