The Basement: Travis Taylor | Black Holes, UFOs & Skinwalker Ranch

Olen Shannon Maldonado, käsintehtyjä artesaanitua teita myyvän jaujialahjakaupan perustaja. Valitsin Shopify, koska alustoja testa testani totesin sen ehdottomasti yhdeksi helpokäyttöisimmistä alustoista. Minulla oli tärkeää pohtia kehittymistämme tulevaisuudessa. Kaikki myyntiin tarvittavat työkalut, kuten varaston suunnittelu ovat kätevästi dashboardissa. Aloita ilmainen kokeilu Shopify piste komsi vustolla. Today we're talking with Dr. Travis Taylor. He's written 25 science fiction novels, he holds five advanced degrees, and wrote the textbooks on rocket science, laser science and quantum field theory. He fueled a rocket with moonshine on national geographic, and spent 35 years on classified defense projects. Somehow, one guy did all that. And moonshine is the only fuel the government can't trace. That wasn't a stunt, that was trade cred. When the government needed a scientist for a real UFO task force, they picked the red net rocket scientist. Eight years later, he's still the lead scientist at Skinwalker Ranch. You've seen him on the show. Today we're covering what he pulled out of that mesa, and why a drone swarm fell out of the sky at 3,000 feet. Actually 3,271 feet. All of them. I kinda wanted to tell you why, but you need to be surprised as I was. We also talked about his paper arguing that our universe sits inside a black hole, which means our entire universe is just a tiny black hole in somebody else's sky. The math works. Oh, a tribal leader called him to say the sky people are taking him inside that mesa at Skinwalker Ranch, but he refuses to remember. And he was like, fine. Then two days later, a remote viewer told him the same thing. He goes inside the mesa and refuses to remember it. I spent 15 years trying to forget my second wife. This man has a gift. After a conversation, I'll come back and break down the talk. Let's go down to the basement. Dr. Travis Taylor, welcome to the basement. Hey, thanks man. You left out. Black belt martial artist. Did I? Yeah, scuba diver, pilot, you know, all that stuff. What system did you train it? Well, I've trained in two systems. Shin Nagari, which was American Taikwondo, and then White Tiger Kimpo. Kimpo myself. Yeah. Four different systems. Wow. Cool. Yep. That's great. Love the meaty Kimpo guys. There's not a lot of us around. In 2000, I was the Alabama State Champion fighting. No kidding. You know when fighting, yeah. Wow. That was a long time ago. Long time ago. My first black belt I got from Nick Serio, got his from Ed. Oh, nice. So it's great lineage. So I want to start with an apology. So last night, I'm talking to my wife Jen. She's like, so are you ready for tomorrow? I said, I don't know, man. I don't know if I can keep up with Dr. Taylor. He's done so much. And she said, well, he emailed you. He was a fan of the show. I said, what? And two years ago, you said, in email. And I never saw it. So I apologize for that. Some of it says it's about all the stuff that got wrong. I said, I don't know. Taylor. He's done so much. That's all the stuff that got wrong. I'm that Travis Taylor. She's sciences at the UAPTF, 35 years DOD ICANASA. I co-own a company now with Jay Stratton and Laila Zondo. I'm a long time friend, colleagues of Hal. Put off kit, green, et cetera. By the way, you say if you believe in Roman Moe viewing or not, you should add a caveat that it's been scientifically proven. And you think you understand mechanism for how it works. Love your episode on the Aviary. But folks always get how wrong. Bigelow's work at Skimwalker, that has or has been found there. Modern UIP work is misunderstood. Big ARPL fan, you were the first to analyze arts parts back in the day with art in Linda a few times. Roach you back. So we're going to get to all that today. And then this morning I get, because I, you know, I wrote you back. Thank you for all that. You only come through Vegas before going to China Lake, NTS, and somewhere else. And guess we know where that is, never stopped to smell the strippers. We can fix that tonight. Can't wait to meet you straightening out in some nonsense you've been told. Dude, I can talk about anything. Nonsense. I want to get to all that today, all the stuff I got wrong. Because you were there for all of it, man. Well, if I was there for all of it, I know the people who were firsthand. And so maybe I can help you put the pieces together. I'd like that. Everyone starts with Skimwalker with you. But I got to do this for me. I'm going to start with the universe in a black hole. Is that the paper you're working on? Yeah. So for your next PhD, you need another one of those. Well, so, you know, a lot of people ask me why so many degrees. Why I want to do all these different things. For the longest I was trying to get in the astronaut program. And, you know, if you look at story musk grade, for example, that guy's got obtained master's degrees. He jumps out of planes at, you know, 30,000 feet and all sorts of things. You know, test pilot, all that stuff. And so I thought, well, you got to compete with those guys. You really, you got to bring your A game. And also my goal when I was a kid, I was about 10 years old. My dad, who was a master tool maker. He brought me a book. I was a beat up paperback book. And he said, son, I've been reading this. I think you would really enjoy it. Once you read it, then we'll talk about it. And it was Eric Von Daniken's "Chariets of the Gods." Wow. And so I read it, absorbed it, read it again, bent pages on it, so that we could come back and talk about it. And my dad and I, since that time, for, you know, 48 years ago, we still to this day, we discuss new ideas that we've discovered, say in some religious text or theological book, or even just a poll, somewhere written in history. And we say, well, that sounds a lot like that they're describing technology, you know, not. And that's what got me into understanding the universe from the ancient aliens, sort of perspective. And Georgia, succulists, like to say, ancient astronaut theory. I keep explaining to him a theory has a much larger acceptance. This is a hypothesis. Right. It is an ancient astronaut hypothesis, but that's okay. You know, he's not a scientist. He's a researcher. And I applaud everything that the guys have done. Even if sometimes they go off in weird rabbit holes and lead you down a path that isn't the right answer, that's okay. That's how you learn, right? There's a. And the other reason. So not to skew too far. There was a. when it came out that I had been the chief scientist of the UAP task force. There was a guy who wrote an article in. I think it was the Washington Post. It said government. it says something like critics mystified or baffled by the government's choice of guy who believes in paranormal for the UAP task force chief scientist. I've never once said I believe in anything paranormal. It's something like the word paranormal. Because if it's paranormal, paranormal means not within the universe. And if it's within the universe, or if it's not within the universe, then how are we seeing it and studying it, right? It's something that's happening. It's something that's. I don't believe in the word fringe, because there's such thing as fringe science. Science is science. If it's an unknown, you got to study it. But in that article, even the guy even went so far as to say his alleged education. He didn't do his homework, man. And I'm like, you're going to take pictures of my diplomas on my wall and my study at home? Or I'm sure my mom's got pictures of graduations. Not like other folks who claim they have master's degrees from somewhere and they can't even prove they went there. Not to get into that. But my point about that is that he didn't do his homework for a reason. And that's where there's somebody, there's an active source of people, whether it's an act of general conspiracy just culturally. Or there's officially something being driven to discredit anybody who's asking questions. And for example, Michael Shermer is a smart guy. He's a really smart guy. But his answer is always the skeptical answer from the start. And that's actually a violation of the scientific method, honestly. I think he's getting his directives from somewhere. Yeah, so I think that's the point. And that's where I'm going to. And I wanted to make a point about something. That's why I brought that up. There's a billboard near Wall Street that's been counting up the national debt since 1989. 7 digits back then. 14 now. We just crossed $39 trillion. 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Do you see the free investor can explain how physical gold and silver can be added to an IRA or 401k a free portfolio review with no obligation at work hard sell and a qualifying purchases up to $25,000 in bonus silver. I'll give you a real simple example so that you can use to explain to anybody. Let's say we have the videos have come out and somebody says well we believe we can show the white wine vogue UFOs this could just be some phenomena airplane light cleaning off of it you know as as will Smith said light reflecting from Venus right and well that's fine that is a possible solution. It's not the only solution what's the square root of four right to no it's not square root of four is plus or minus two that's true think about that because minus two times minus two that's true still four there are two solutions to that question and either one are equally valid so is it light reflecting off of swamp gas from Venus or whatever you know or could it be something else if it is a solution a viable solution. It is still a possibility that has to be investigated and so that's why I wonder why there's something saying well don't look at that set of solutions it's never minus two it's always two right. That's the Collins group yeah yeah I I we call we don't call that we don't know who they are but within the task force we called them the antibodies yeah and we would run into the antibodies often. And we just for asking questions right and and the when we became the official UAP task force the National Defense Authority of authorization act India of 2019 and 2020 gave us authority to be briefed at all classifications at all all classifications. So and they didn't have to they didn't have to brief us in and say this is the technology how it works but if we ask them was this you they had to tell us by law and it said that there's a felony if they didn't and we had we had multiple star. Officers tell us that they would commit the felony before telling us of course of course they would so that to me that is. They're admitting that they're going to break the law it's it's treason yeah sorry I got us off on a tangent that's okay that's why that's why I've kind of learned everything I possibly can. Since I was 17 years old get behind that door to see these things understand these things and and and number one what if we need to be doing something we don't have an avengers initiative right that's true that's on my list is when you're 17. How you worked on SDI but black holes. Oh yeah. Archipathria said universe is a black hole in the 70s we've got public ski in the 2010s so this is not new but your paper I think says our universe could fit into like five to 10 solar masses. Yes so the paper that I it's really weird that came about I was actually working on a simulation hypothesis presentation for a conference I forget which conference it was. And I was looking at world maps of video games like say Minecraft you got this square world map or you know whatever and and how they worked. And I realize that since you couldn't go they weren't like the old Atari in asteroid or you go off this side and you come back on this side right. You know that that's actually a sphere people don't realize that but I was looking at the world map and realize you can't go outside the boundaries of that and so the video game itself has an event horizon. Okay that hit my and at the same time I pulled a picture that was made by a cosmology group you can anybody go find it it's a circle that shows sort of a logarithmic plot across time and space to the edge of our universe and it's a big circle. It shows we're somewhere near the middle and you get and then you got the giant galaxies that when they were beginning to form and all this out at the edge of time when the big bang allegedly occurred and there's nothing beyond that circle that you can see. And I looked at said this is exactly the same world map is in Minecraft there's an event horizon on our world map that we can't see beyond. And I said the only thing that I know of like that that has an event horizon that traps all the information on the inside of it is a black hole. And then I realized what was Stephen Hawking actually wrote a paper with the guy in Beckenstein that black holes actually do emit a certain amount of radiation but it's so tiny that the amount of radiation it's such a long wavelength and so low energy we can't build detectors to detect it so it'll be decades before anybody can prove or disprove Hawking's concept is hypothesis. But it matches with the math and everything. It's probably true probably it's just we can't prove it for a long time to we get better building instruments. But I realized I said well if there's energy leaking out of this black hole well then that energy is a signature of what's inside it. And so you know how you can take your radio dial in your car back in the old days when you can turn you can see all the numbers there. That's the frequency spectrum of all the transmissions your radio can do right at in time it sends a signal but across the frequencies you can see all these spots on the dial. Well I thought now what if the signal if we look at its spectrum if it tells us all the information that's inside coming from the inside of the black hole. And when I did certain types of math it let me reproduce what we see is modern cosmology running backwards from the outside looking in. So in other words we believe we have models of our universe right going this way expanding outward from the big bang. Well in a black hole if you look at it from the outside in times reversed and it would be falling inward and I thought well now that's an interesting corollary. And so I used all the the math from Hawking and everything and I ran a bunch of my I told me a lot of it's such a long Python code that it took me forever. I had to vibe go to a lot of it with the you know chat gvt because I'm not a supercomputer hacker you know. But you have to always go back and make sure the math is right because you know I will will give you fake stuff it will. But anyway so once I ran the models over and over and over and convinced myself that the code was right. It showed that any any black hole between five and ten solar masses should have similar cosmology as our our universe. Which suggests now I'm not saying it proves it but it suggests that we live in a black hole that's about somewhere between five and ten solar masses and my model. Stop somewhere about 7.2 solar masses so paplowski said that that we would inherit the characteristics and spin of our parent black hole. But what I can't square is the source child radius. Well so the source child radius is only something you see from the outside. That's the event horizon that way so as we don't we can't go past it we can't get out that well explains where shadows for the folks list yeah so. If you take a amount of mass and you squish it as small as you can make it there is a radius around it spherically. Make it makes a virtual sphere say geometric sphere around it and at that radius is is the race where light can't even escape the gravitational attraction. Even light will fall in right there so there's no way unless you maybe have a warp drive that you can escape or quantum tunneling right. You know that 3 a.m. feeling not being able to fall by to sleep because you're drowning in debt. PDS debt is here to help the issue is minimum payments only keep you in debt longer. PDS debt takes a different approach by combining bills into one lower monthly payment no more juggling. They can cut what you want in credit cards personal loans and medical bills by up to half. And the best part is there's zero credit impact no minimum credit score required and the savings start the day you complete the assessment. The more you wait the higher your credit card balance gets. The average PDS debt client saves twenty thousand one hundred twenty three dollars and thousands of people are already using this to take control of their debt. PDS debt is the top rated company in the industry with thousands of five star reviews and an a plus rating on the BBB. Look, I've dealt with debt myself lying there doing the math at 3 a.m. feeling like I'd never get ahead of it. I want you to know that there's a way out when using PDS debt. Get your free 30 second personalized assessment today at pds dbt.com slash basement. That's pds debt.com slash basement pds debt.com slash basement. And so the interesting parallel though, AJ when I was doing this was it led back to my simulation hypothesis presentation. Because like Elon Musk has said that he believed that he doesn't believe there's any chance that we're in the prime universe that we're in a nested simulation. What impilience simulation within simulation within simulation. Well, look across our cosmology, how many black holes there are. And within our universe, we see black holes everywhere, right? And if we're in a black hole, that means that there are black holes in our black hole. And those black holes probably have black holes in those black holes. And those black holes will have holes in those black holes and it's turtles all the way down and all the way up. So could our universe be a black hole in someone else's sky? Yes, that's the point. But it's turtles all the way down and all the way up. - Do you know Lee Smolens work at all? - That name sounds really familiar, I'm not sure. - Is there his cosmological natural selection where if the universe is a black hole, it's always looking for ways to just create more of them. It's almost like the anthropocrynsable but on the black hole level. - Wow, yeah, well that's, I mean, that gives it sort of a purpose and intent, like the Genesis device. - It almost sounds intentional. - Yeah. - So, if you want to talk about intent, let's do it. We'll get this skin walker. - We got time now. - We'll get it. - So I did a, this is really interesting. There are two things in one of them I won't talk about but there are two things I've got, Jet GBT to bring up a warning banner and says it won't go any further on it. And then why this one is so odd? I wanted to go through the probability that evolution could occur. - It wouldn't let you do this? - I got to the model. So I started, we started creating a model, it's called a heuristic model. Basically the probability of this and then the probability of this, the Drake equation, sure, but for evolution, right? But I kept getting it more and more complex and more and more complex and more and more complex. And till we got to the point where I said, now run the probabilities of this. And it ran the probabilities and showed that there's no way within many, like hundreds, like 100 to 100 to 100 to 100 orders of magnitude that the universe has to be that old for it to have happened. And I said, then the only way it could have happened was through engineering intent that someone changed something in the model. And then a banner come up and said, this is getting into theological discrediting or something and it said we can't discuss this any further. - Now hold on, change something in the model. Epoch transitions is a thing. - Yes. - So chat GPT doesn't know that? - Well, but see, that's not that the Epoch changes the from the radiation dominant to the matter dominant to the dark matter dominant, all that, which is actually interesting in my black hole paper. That actually is an effect. - It is? - Yes, it actually should have happened according to it so, but somebody changed something in the matrix, right? And well, chat GPT won't, doesn't want to accept, the AI doesn't want to accept, now I've tried it with GROC too and with deep seek and all, so it's not just, I'm not picking on open AI, you know. - You're trying to, you're trying to, like, - I mean, I've tried it with Clawed, I haven't, I've tried it with Clawed deep seek, GROC and chat GPT. And they all come with the same answer that it's impossible. That something, somebody had to change, had to make some change something, right, for it to go down this path because there's so many infinite bifurcations for the probability. And you know, that's, you know, it doesn't violate your religion in any way, right? I mean, anybody's religion, they said God created people, well, or whatever, the universe. Well, this had it, right? - Simulation theory and religion is the same thing. - Yeah, I tell people all the time, if I'm gonna create a universe, am I gonna go get a cauldron? And start putting in, like, you know, which is brew stuff and hope it blows up and creates the thing I want. Or am I gonna get in an environment where I can control everything, which is a computer simulation environment where I can create a physics engine and have Mario jump as high as he can jump and run his stand on one toenail at the edge of a cliff, you know, to do whatever. And I can control that. And if I don't like where it's working, I can hit the pause button and change the subroutine here or there and start it back up. - Yep. - That sounds a lot like the epochs that we just talked about. - It sure does. - I bring up all the time on the show is Philip K. Dick's talking about the mess and stuff. - Oh, that is one of the greatest, they should make every person in high school watch that speech. - Agreed. - Philip K. Dick's speech is the most powerful speech by a man who's been his life writing art, where you're making stories, science fiction stories. And, you know, people, blade runner for you, everybody knows what blade runner is, right? But Philip K. Dick, his stories, when you hear that speech, and he's telling you, they aren't stories. - It's not science fiction. - They're my memories of an alternate reality that for some reason I can still remember and everybody else has forgotten. - You see the faces in the crowd? - Oh, you, they're like, - What's great though, because it's in Paris or wherever it is, it's in French, right? - Yep. - And you hear the translator going and then you, then you hear the, - Oh, the murmur and everybody's like, - Right, that is one of the most fascinating speeches in the history of mankind, I think. - Yeah, he talks about men in the high castle. He said, "I just remembered this "that the Axis won the war." - When he talks about the lady, - The lady that comes to visit him. - Yes, that is bizarre and fantastic at the same time. - Yeah, and I believe him. - I don't think he had any reason to bring it up. - Nope. - Unless it was some kind of weird bizarre, you know, hallucinogenic trip that had been on or something, but I don't, his writing didn't portray that. - No, it didn't. - It was very matter of fact. - Absolutely was. - And for that speech, he believed, you could see, unless he's the best actor in the world, unless he's like, you know, George C. Scott or something. - Right. - That he believed every word he was saying. And I think everybody should watch that speech because it's just unbelievable and fantastic. - Totally agree. How does your black hole theory and your thoughts of simulation dovetail into your study of the Gnostic Texts? - Well, I think they're one and the same. I think the Gnostic Text and not just the Gnostic Text, but other ancient texts, the Mahabharata, Bhagavad Gita, various other Taoist texts. I think they're all telling us the same stories, but the Gnostic Texts specifically spell it out in great detail. Pac-Fonajan, the book of Philip, they talk specifically about the universe before this all loving being, and then he creates sort of a companion being who gets bored out there in the infinite and creates a shadow universe. - So that's Sophia getting bored? - Sophia. - So the wisdom getting bored. - Yeah, so Sophia is, you know, according to the Gnostic Text is, I guess we call it, we use Sophia, I guess because we think she's female or there's a female aspect to it, feminine aspect, but she's an explorer and goes through all of the heavens, which is called the Pluroma in the Gnostic Text, and gets bored, so she creates a place to go and have adventures in, I guess, but when she creates this dark realm out of the shadows, so the matter is apparently the shadow of the light beings of the Pluroma, and when she creates it, this other being appears, and it's real vague to me how the Gnostic Texts, or at least I interpreted it, did she cause this being, this dark being to occur, or did it just manifest? And it's called, the name is like Yalda Bouth, also referred to as the Demi-Eurge, and the Demi-Eurge is the God of the shadow world, and believes he is the God, right? - Right, but he's not. But he's also a petty God, right? Because he doesn't want anyone to think that they're more powerful than him or whatever, and he creates these demons, the Archons, to basically like agents, to do jobs for him. And I find it really interesting because it sounds just like in the books of Enoch, where they all high has all these other deities, these angels, or archangels, or whatever, to do certain jobs, like one of them controls the weather, one of them controls this, one of them. That sounds just like in a video game simulation architecture, you have subroutines and agents to do all these different things, right? - Sure. - And I think the Gnostic, then the Gnostic Text, the interesting part to me is how Sophia saw these beings that the Demi-Eurge was creating out of the shadow, the matter, and they didn't have a spark of life. So she splits herself into infinite pieces, goes into this dark universe, and puts a piece of her in all the beings, basically the soul. And in Apocryphana John, the last supper is completely like different last supper than when I was taught in sunny school. - In what way? - Well, so Jesus doesn't come there and tell them that he's there to save all the sins of mankind. - Oh no. (laughs) - Well, I mean, what happens is he tells the apostles that he is from the pluroma, and to get back, you have to go through the monad, or become one with the monad. Whatever that means, right? It's a doorway, is it a, you know, your pineal gland, you know, whatever, I don't know. But he says that the only way to get there is to be true to yourself and within, you don't need to go to a church. He actually tells them. - Right, God isn't there. - God is not in that church, it's in you. - Yes, and he says, I'm here to return basically his mother, Sophia, all the sparks of her back to the pluroma. And that's completely different than what I was told in sunny school. - Yeah, they buried it for a reason. - Well, that leads me to think at that point that the stories that Paul rewrote the Bible, basically on his business purposes. - Yes. - It's probably true because he wrote it in a way that you have to come to the church. You have to sacrifice for the church. You have to be submissive to the church. in it. puts the church what? Oh, in control. In control, right? When Jesus, according to the Gnostic text, said, the church isn't in control, anything, you are in control, you have to reflect inward and be in control of yourself. And that is completely opposite to the story that most of the religions are telling us. Right. Remember when the full Bible was found in Ethiopia all those years ago? Oh. And they said, and he said, what is all this? And I said, that's the Bible. I said, there's too many books here. Book of Enoch, Philip is in there, all this stuff. No, this is the Bible. In 367, they took on it. They threw all this away. Yeah, buried it. And now this is the Bible. Well, I want to know who those people were in the 364 or 367. It was three or four years where they sat there and said, well, this book we use. This book we won't use. Why? Why? Why? Why would they say, take out, for example, Jesus telling the Apostles in the book, Apocrylonal John, how to see the the demi-airgis arcons, right? It's written down. This is really interesting. And it's actually become an interesting experiment for Skinwalker Ranch, which I know we're going to get to. We're going to get to. But he tells them that you can see the arcons through your peripheral vision. Oh. And the interesting thing about that is he actually explains it. He says, because your eyes can see different light in your peripheral vision, then straight on. He said, don't turn to look at them or you won't see them. And we now know that your peripheral vision can see further into the infrared than the center part of your eye. And how did he know that? Who ever wrote, even if it's a fictional story written 2,000 years ago, how did he know 2,000 years ago? Number one about infrared light, right? And number two, that your eyes work better for infrared light with your peripheral vision. So somebody knew something to tell this story, whether it's real or not. And that to me is at least enough evidence that somebody knew something that the rest of the world did not know. How? 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Not all law firms are the same. Hiring the wrong one and you may be beat before you even start. If you're ever injured you can check out Morgan and Morgan and their fee is free unless they win. For more information you can go to FordThePeople.com/why. So if we're if our universe is inside this veil, do you think there's other universes like ours with their own veils with their own? You ever played video games on a server? Of course. Well and you're go to the lobby. Yep. Like Roblox for example. There's 14 doors. You can go in this door and you play that Titanic game. You can go in this door in some kind of parkour game or you can play this game and it's a player versus player game. Well, you heard the story of Vishnu. From the Hindu text Vishnu as Vishnu would breathe, exhale or sweat, each little bead of moisture would become a new universe. Vishnu would then take on different avatars in these different universes and have adventures. Yep. Sounds a lot like that lobby we were just talking about. It does. But I always wondered if Vishnu is just the game console. Wow. It sounds like it. Right. So that would mean that all these universes is really all the same spark, right? Yeah. It's all the same source. Yeah. So who made it? I don't know. Who made it? Where is it? Where is it? Yeah. If there's the edge of the universe, there's got to be something else out there. But you could ask theologians and physicists and you get to look weird answers, man. Well, because it sort of violates their sense of sensibility like the ancient one told Dr. Strange in Dr. Strange. Is that if a spell upsets your senses and call it an algorithm, right? Right. We put too much emphasis on it sounds like something that offends me, right? Well, science isn't offensive. Science is just there. I mean, it's just a thing. There's one. There's no such thing as fringe science, right? There's nowhere in the scientific method is the word fringe, nowhere in nowhere. And I will get up on anybody's soapbox and beat it with a hammer, right? nowhere does it say anything about extraordinary evidence. Never in the scientific method is the word extraordinary evidence used to the Carl Sagan did a huge disservice to humanity by making that statement that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. No, extraordinary claims require you to follow the scientific method. Any evidence is evidence in the scientific method that must be analyzed. And when you do all add all the evidence together, do all the analysis, that's when you can maybe support or discredit the claim, the extraordinary claim has nothing to do with extraordinary evidence. It sounds to me like people say he had a change of hard or something at some point like they got to him. I think so. Because he was a you a full believer. And then he wasn't you read that book that he wrote with the Russian guy on I forget the name of the book, but it's it was before way before cosmos. And it was basically studying the Drake equation and about the lot possibility of life and everything. And they're all like, well, yeah, there's got to be everywhere, right? And then suddenly, oh, no, I don't think there's life out there. It's probably not and there's no UFOs. And you can watch even speeches that he did where he said UFO should be investigated. And then oh, no, there's nothing to it, right? So it does sound like a lot of the conspiracy stuff that we hear, right? That somebody got to him. Maybe us. Maybe they offered him something. Well, one way or the other, if I hear scientists use that statement, I always come on to a knee jerk reaction and say, or who taught you that? Where did that come from? That's not the scientific method. Go back and read the scientific method. And so I absolutely, yeah, I might make extraordinary claims because I'm from the south. We speak in we speak in hyperbole and euphemisms and all sorts of exaggerations, right? But I never say it as a it's the fact, right? Or it's the thing. It's a, you know, I may say holy crap. What is that? But then I might say, oh, well, it's just one of these. But then I might say, wow, it's one of those. Has your doctor committee seen your paper yet? No, the one of my advisors has. The entire committee has not. What do they? What does he think? He said it was about, he said it was above him actually. Really? I can't wait to read it. I'll send you copy of it. It's a lot of, it's a lot of you know, quantum field theory and general relativity kind of in thermodynamics thrown together. It's a lot of a graduate level math. But that's what most scientific papers are. It's, it's all math and unless you understand the math, it doesn't mean a lot to you. I always, my first PhD committee chairman, he told me he took me to before I did my final defense, took me to an elementary school and had me present my work to the third graders. And he said, if you can't explain it to a third grader, you don't understand it. That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah. And so think about this. If, if the phenomena is a strange effect in a just a weird mathematical formula, how in the hell do you explain that to a third grader? You have to really, really, really think about it and really try to understand what it really means, you know, effectively to explain it that way. And so are we in a black hole? So I'm not the first person to say it. Like I said, but I think that if you do the math, you can narrow down on what kind of black hole we live in. And what's interesting is black holes outside of that five to 10 solar masses, they got different physics in their universes. Different physics. Yes. It's a different, yes, different cosmology completely. So who, what kind of things are going on in those big black holes or smaller black holes? So every black hole isn't going to create a universe like ours, just those in that certain mass range. And so I find that really intriguing. It creates an infinite sort of possibility of types of physics and beings that could occur. It does. I don't know if you are aware of the Jade project from last year, James Webb. Oh, they found that they looked at all the like the far field galaxies and two thirds of them are spinning the same way and it shouldn't work like that. Right. Why? Yeah, that's a good question. Why? So you know, you actually, I've been thinking about that actually and you said something a few minutes ago that could possibly explain it, that the black hole, if there's black holes created within it, it should have some chirality or it will, if it has spin on the outside, then that should translate somehow to the inside. Well, what if our black hole was spinning with the certain angular momentum that's causing the majority of the galaxies in our black hole to spin in a certain way? That's why I brought it up because there's a lot of these studies that seem to point to your paper. I'm excited about it. I really think there's something to it. I mean, I'm not saying that it's Nobel Prize winning kind of stuff, but I think it's something unique and new that we can actually, if we start finding a way to peer into, we can actually get information inside of black hole now, right, and I find that intriguing. Now, I did something fun. I created a model black hole in IBM's quantum computer, the one called FES, and then I created a wormhole, and I put one end outside the black hole and one end inside the black hole. Oh, that's a lot of math. It was hard to write the code too. It did work in the computer. Not only did I actually built these, they weren't real black holes, but it was a simulation of a black hole in the quantum computer, and I could actually send entangled photons from within the black hole to the outside, and I could send information from within the black hole. And they would stay entangled. Now, now that's just, it's an interesting simulation, and two, I can figure out a way to do more with it. But you think about these things, we don't know how the universe works. We don't know how everything. So, if you say, you can't do something like, I was going to make this point earlier about when I was talking about the square root of four. Sharmer, as always said, you can't go faster at speed of light. You can't do these things. Oh, and to say that these UFOs and these videos, if they were going at the speed that we're saying they're going, they would make sonic booms and all these ripped the air part, and all this, said the air on fire, all this stuff. Well, that's one solution. But if you understand the physics of warp theory and general relativity, there was a paper written in 1999 that is called, the paper is actually called a view from the bridge, because they were trying to see if Captain Kirk could actually get information from inside the warp bubble. And what they found was that information can't penetrate the front or the back of the bubble that creates an impenetrable information barrier. And so, anything would just move around it without interacting with it. So, if there's a warp bubble moving through our atmosphere, the atmosphere is going to move out of the way. It's not going to need to make a sonic boom. It's not going to rip the air part. The air's just going back, like it's not there. Right. It's almost like a micro universe. Yeah, it's exactly it. It's a pocket universe where I call it, but yeah. And so, the question there is, the Sharmer, not no general relativity at all. I'm sure he's a smart guy, you know. So, and I know Avilob does, and they're buddies. I mean, so, why do they say things like that? Why do they say things like that just to say, well, it can't happen. If that was there, it would rip the air part into the atmosphere on fire, or what if it was a warp bubble? Right. And it was following the laws of physics as we understand them. We see it happen in water too. Yes. Oh, there was a, you know, there was a project that DARPA did back in the 80s called warp project warp theory, or warp drive, project warp drive. And it was, they basically made a submarine that looked like a narwhal. And the big nose out on the, on the submarine had a little pocket, little bubbles in, I mean, holes in it. And they would put out nitrogen gas and create bubbles, air bubbles, little bit of air bubbles that would go around, create a warp bubble of bubbles around the submarine. So it would reduce the density of the water. That's right. The cavitation project. I remember this. And so it could go faster. Yes. Then a submarine in water could go, it would go faster than the speed of sound and water, right? Potentially, which is a warp bubble, but a warp in the water in hydro dynamics, not in, you know, space-time dynamics, but, but so what? I mean, that's the, it's a neat idea. It's the same idea. It's just doing it in a different way. We don't know how to create those little bubbles yet, you know, to do a real warp drive. Why do you think they keep it from us? I don't know who they are. Yeah. Right. It always comes down to who they are. Yeah. And so I, you know, even if we put in the, I don't think it made it. I think there were some antibodies that edited out the first report that the UAP task force did back in like 21 or two, I forget the year. We had a page in there that said it's either us in a classified project that for some reason didn't reveal itself to us, right? Which we, we rated as very low probability because we had access, right? It's a, it's a near peer, you know, China or Russia, but our intelligence network hasn't given us any information that it was that. It's Mother Nature doing something new that we've never seen before, which is possible for some of them, but it's not for all of them, right? The ones that look like actual things is unlikely to be ball lightning, right? And then there's an oligarch, our group of oligarchs that are outside of, of working outside of the law or outside of any control, which would require a lot of coordination or in a lot of resources, which a lot of them have, right? Or it was something else. And we didn't even say aliens, angels, demons, we left that alone. We just said it was something else. And that whole list of things got removed from the report. And I was like, why? Why would you even, because we were just showing that we were saying there are all these possible solutions. It's like square root of four is two and minus two, right? That's all we were saying. Well, who has the authority to do that? That's the question, right? It's Pentagon. It's got it. Well, so Jay Stratton was a two-star admiral equivalent, civilian, diseled defense intelligence senior leader, right? Two-star equivalent. I was a GS-15 equivalent. And we had, so there was another, another sort of partner that was working for what is now Space Force. It wasn't Space Force then, but, and he was a one-star equivalent. So we had some muscle. Yep. And we had, you know, the senior members of the Sissy and Hipsy on board. I mean, Rubio was our biggest fan. Yeah. Those are the committees. Yeah. And so I don't understand who would have the power over them to keep us from putting certain things in the report. But there's all it, there's an answer to that. Like, who called you, Marko? Because someone made a call. We just need to trace where those calls end. But we can never get there. Well, you know, Representative Birchett just told me that. Tim is a great guy from Knoxville, Tennessee. He's a heck of a fish fan. Yeah. Yeah. He's a good guy, man. So, so funny. He invited Jay Stratton and I to go to his house and brief him on, on all this. And so we drove up to Knoxville from Huntsville, Alabama. Jay moved to Huntsville after we started hanging out together. He liked it, he liked it, didn't he? But, anyway, we drove up to see Congressman Birchett. And he comes out on the front porch and cut off blue jean shorts. Oh, no. And his days he do cowboy boots, right? He's got his firearm on his side and a Tennessee Falls golf shirt, right? And he comes out and he takes it in the house, shows us all of his World War II firearms that his dad had got it. I don't even remember what good I didn't when he was there or whatever. But anyway, and we briefed him. And he said that when you get there, you there, you think you have all these great intentions or whatever and you get there and realize that there's they they he said they will not let you do anything. And we were like, well, who is they? And he says the system. And I don't know if he actually knows if there's a day to the system. I don't think he knows. I don't think he I don't think he does. I think it's basically, he says, oh, everybody says, oh, you can't do that. You can't tell anybody. You can't do this. You can't do that. And I think they just accept it, right? Our elected officials can't even do what we've elected them to do because of whatever this they or this system is. And that's probably what, you know, we call the deep state or administrative state, all these different things that gets in the in the political realm. And I'm going to talk about politics. I'm just talking about in general humanity wanting to know what their leaders are doing for them. Humanities the problem because whether it's a person or somebody else, you get a phone call that says, do you want to know about aliens? You want to get elected? Yeah. I suspect this right. Yeah. I have a feeling that that's exactly right. I mean, I had I had pushed back when when Jay invited me to be on the UAP Task Force push back from so my boss was a one star equivalent for the army. So he would have been a one star general equivalent. Now I had done some work for the three star that was over him before, but only in a way that he didn't actually know my name. He just knew that there's somebody under him [BLANK_AUDIO] work, right? But Jay called it, I had to actually literally call my boss and say at the army and say, we need Travis for the interagency task force. It was, what'd he call you if you task force yet? And this is pre arrow. Oh, wait, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we Jay and I retired and then arrow became. Okay. All right. So we retired because we realized we couldn't get anywhere, right? And we kept getting doors shut in our face. So anyway, my boss was like, well, why do you need Travis? Well, you know, why do you need him? And he said he's, and so Jay told us funny, Jay's exact words to him was because Travis is the only guy that can understand these physics and knows how to build shit. That's exactly what he told him. Because, you know, I grew up building stuff. And I watched it on TV. And I, and our goal was to figure out if there was a heritage legacy reverse engineering program and to get into it and see why there was no progress. And, and, and, because here's the thing, I briefed all the way up to the White House. If there is a legacy program, who's doing the work? Because I know all I don't necessarily know personally all of the physicists and engineers that should be working on by I know who they are. And I know that they're not because I see what they are doing. You know that they're not. Yes. And I see what they are doing. And that's when Dave Grush kind of came along. So let me, let me, you know, I'm probably getting ahead of you, but you are, but it's, it's fun. So, so Jay, and that other person who still didn't want his name out because he just didn't want to publicity. He's retired since, but he just didn't want to get involved, right? But hit the guy that was in the space group and then Jay and myself. And there was one other CIA scientist that was kind of in the top group that would hang out, you know, together afterwards we called it, Jay called it whiskey and cigars because he'd do a virtual meeting and we'd all meet like every Friday evening and talk about what we'd done. But so the space guy, he was, he had Dave Grush on contract. Dave Grush was not a civil servant. He was a contractor, right? And he said, well, we need somebody that can go and we get him to do interviews because we don't have time to do, because we just said Jay and I just got approval from the NASA administrator that we were going to get every living astronaut in a skiff and have them debrief with us and they were to be told from the administrator to tell us anything they know, right? And then COVID hit and we didn't get to do that, but there's a whole another aspect to that. Well, who would have been alive then just buzz, right? Well, you have the Apollo of the Apollo guys, you had buzz and then you would get into the space shuttle guys. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so you still had bus, there were still several of the space shuttle, bus graves still alive, you know, I don't know if John Young, Robert Kribin are probably still alive. I don't know. I'd have to go look that up. What about Mark Kelly? Would he have been on your list? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So every living astronaut, every astronaut that was alive, we had, we had a plan, we had a schedule and we were going to get them to fly them, we had budget to fly them to the skiff in DC and we were going to meet with them for a week, have them come in and debrief with us. So at the same time, we had the space guy say, well, I got a guy on contract already doing some analysis for me. He's pretty good. I'm going to get him to start interviewing anybody that thinks they know anything about the legacy programs in a skiff. And so that's what Dave Gressard, do you start interviewing people? So he was an Air Force intelligence? No. Now, so he was active duty Air Force for some time in his career. Okay. And I think he was in Air Force intelligence in that time frame, right? But I mean, he wasn't high. I mean, he wasn't like a general or something. He was, he was just a, you know, a normal career guy, right? Well, when he, when he got out of the Air Force, he started doing contractor, he's a physics major. I mean, he knows, he's, I think he has a, he doesn't, I know he has a bachelor's, he may have a master's in physics. He's, he's a sharp guy. So anyway, and Dave was doing like signals analysis or image analysis or something for the space team. And so we put him to work doing that. And he started getting people telling him just all kinds of stuff. And so we, we, we, we gave him to tell it, debrief his own or whatever. And then he got a job offer to go to NGA as a civil servant, National Geospatial Agency. And so, but he was still also partially under control from the other leader of the UAP task force. And while I was at NGA as a civil servant, he was asking some of these people the questions. And somebody didn't like it. And they had the inspector general start investigating. And that's, that kind of brings everybody up to the date of the stories that Dave has told. But what I just wanted to, to, and I want to be clear about something. I think the people don't understand the way he tells it is that to my knowledge, he's never seen anything with his own eyes. That's, that's what I understand. And the way he has an under, you know, discussions with me and in a skiff. I've known Dave for a long time. It's, yeah, this guy told me this, right? And he's the guy that worked on it. He says, and then so then our goal is get those people to say these things under oath. But we getting them to say it under oath is the hard thing. And so that's, I think that's why Dave would at least went and said it under oath that, hey, these guys told me these things. And I want people to understand that's, that's the problem we have. We can't get anyone who's got their hands on it to come forward and say, yeah, I've got it. Here it is. You know, come help us. Because the whistleblower protection doesn't seem to have any teeth. I don't think whistleblower protection in general never has any teeth, right? I mean, look at the, I forget the guy's name. He was the CIA agent that blew the whistle on torture going on at Guantanamo. He spent like five years in prison. Yep. I don't think he got the whistleblower protection. He was lost. No. So there's a lot of that, you know, and so I think they're scared to death. But you believe that there's a legacy program. Excuse me. Yeah. You know, is there a legacy program? Because I've had a few guys in here who would know and they all say no, but I don't know. Well, I, I used to think no until I started really being a part of the community, you know, I didn't believe that Roblet. I believe that up until probably, I went to Skinwalker Ranch that Roswell was most likely a classified program that went awry. And then when I started digging into it and looking in it from internal classifications and reading all the documentation and all that. And now the fact that this fourth tranche of emails and things have been released from the government and they show clearly that twining actually said that they that they were a phenomena. Yep. You know, I'm convinced that something was going on. He said it for one day. Yeah. For one day. For one day. He said it. Well, so when I was doing the Tesla files, that's another interesting thing. We found a document through a Freedom of Information Act request. That Franklin Roosevelt had written a letter directly to Nicola Tesla in 1942 before he died, asking Nicola Tesla how his secret war effort was going. You found that document? Yes. And we released it on the test files and we had had a copy of that document from the FOIA request. How was his secret war effort going? And everybody thought he was just on top of the hotel, New Yorker, playing with pigeons. With pigeons. No. So I mean, there's that conspiracy theory that I believe is when he died 60 boxes get taken out of room 3327. Oh, it's 40 come back. It was more than that. More than that. Yeah. That's John Trump. Yeah. It was. It was Donald Trump's uncle. Yep. Right. And it's really interesting. He was in charge. So it was Trump, which is also he's one of the guys that shows up in the MJ 12 conspiracy theories. But so here's the thing. We went to the hotel, New Yorker. You went you went there? Yeah. I got to watch the show to investigate what was going on there. And I've got had this the building engineer come talk to me about the design of the building and show me all the infrastructure was built back in the so Tesla quit being public in 1927. You know when they started designing the hotel, New Yorker went 1927 go figure go figure, right? And so we we go and we look and they had three ginormous generators. The biggest that existed put in the basement of that building to power the building. I read the same thing, but I saw them with my own eyes. You did. Yes. The generators And one of the generators would have been enough to power all of New York at the time, right? And they had three of them. And then I was running the stairwell during a break just as my workout, as a 40 story building. I'm like, man, it's going to be a hell of a workout, right? And I get to the 40th floor and it keeps going. So I go up a floor and I get to a welded shut door, welded shut now. When I go back down the next morning and talk to engineers, what's the bone of the 41st floor? No, no, 41st floor. Well, there's a door up there that's welded shut. He said, show me. So we took elevator and walked over there and he's been the engineer for this building for a decade. I've never realized this door was here. And so how do we get to the other side of it? We went and found blueprints that were older and they showed there was something there and there was a corridor. And to get in there, we found there was a switchboard up there on the 41st floor that, you know, like old school where there's ladies would be there putting, plugging in the movies. You always see them plugging in wires and how to make phone calls. There was a switchboard and it was about this far from the main wall that you could barely squeeze behind and get through and you get on the other side. There was a laboratory, no shit on the 41st floor. And there was a filing cabinet in there that had blueprints from the early 1900s in it. And we found, and I got to looking around the room and there was a metal pipe about that bigger round and we went to every floor and tracing it went all the way down into the sub basement, into the earth and in the Wardencliffe tower that Tesla built. They drove still pipes into the ground deep and he called them earth grippers. And when I started looking, there was a certain height that Tesla had calculated in some of his notes, but the building was about 50 feet short of that height. And we go up on the very top of the building. There's like an overlook and there's a pole, kind of like a flagpole on top. And I said, what's there? Oh, so there used to be a ball up there, just like Wardencliffe, just like on Wardencliffe. And so, and this was, and he was there in 1942 when he died, and there was that memo that said, how is your secret war effort going from Roosevelt himself? So what was he doing at the hotel in New Yorker? I think it was a system to either collect energy or to detect energy. And it may have been a means of over the horizon communications to our Navy. We know he was working on all that stuff. Yeah. And could it have been something else, which he talked about the, he talked about that we did find that there was a number of, that we found a memo from, I forget who it was. It was one of the generals at the time of having all of the boxes from the office of foreign properties. Alien properties. Alien properties. Yes. It's been a while. Yeah. I did this. So, the office of alien properties that pertained to Tesla's death ray to be sent to right pat field. That's right. Right field at the time. But we found that memo. It says that where blue book was think spun up at that time at the right path, wasn't it? Well, that would have been a little before blue book, because that was in the 40s and blue book would have been in the late 50s. Right. So, I mean, they would have been, I had the legacy of it, certainly. Someone was there. Yeah. So, all of this stuff, we see now from investigating that we don't know what our history is. We don't know what's happened and we don't have anyone who's documented it and it's been compartmentalized in a way that nobody will ever know. So, I think the property is supposed to have a chain of custody of all that stuff. Yeah. Well, the alien just means farther. Yeah. The reason why was his next of kin was a Serbian. Mm. In his nephew. Yeah. He said, "Where's the rest of the stuff?" Yes. So, we went to Serbia. You did? Yes. To the Tesla Institute, whatever it's called. Yes. It's still there. And we had permission from the State Department had worked it for us to get to see Tesla's notes that they have in the vault there. And because I was wanting to see, I was going to try and rebuild one of his experiments of the death rate, obviously, and transmission of power. And they bring out this book. They got the white gloves on and they open up the vault and they're wearing the bunny suit and they come out and they set it down and they say, "So, this is the first page and it turned over one page." And they said, "So, you can see, these are Tesla's documents." And I could see through the paper that the drawing on the next page was the drawing I really needed to see. And I said, "Well, can you turn the page?" And the curator basically, like, the hawas of Serbia, where you know, "Oh, boy." Yeah. He comes in. No. He said, "Why not?" And he said, "You don't have a research visa. You're here on a work visa or something. I forget what our visas were." And our producer came around, "What? We have permission. The State Department worked all this out. What are you talking about?" He said, "You don't have research visa. You can't." And they literally ran us out of the museum at that point when he saw that I was wanting to look at that next document. Did you call the embassy and said, "I need a research visa." We did everything like that. And they would never, the Serbian museum there would never let us come back in to see the Tesla files. No, they wouldn't. How about that? I believe it. And so that's the kind of stuff who told him that. Why did they not want me to see, you know, a hundred-year-old document almost, right? Seventies or whatever. It's old. So why would they not want me to see that? That's so bizarre to me. And so that's that kind of crap that I've seen over and over throughout my career now. And especially since I was on the UAP Task Force. That leads me to think there is a heritage program or a legacy program, but I don't think I think it's so disjointed and disconnected. We don't know who's in charge of it. We don't know where the information is, the documents are, and it may not even be in the government. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. You know Spielberg, man, I got it partly right with how he handled it in his new movie, right? You know, there was some like Lockheed Martin type or Dr. Grumman or whatever. I'm not going to say I've heard it was one of those. I mean, we heard how, say, an age of disclosure that they would just send that stuff to the contractors because FOIA can't penetrate. Yeah. Well, so now here is the illegal part that we've, but haven't been a civil servant for 28 years and having to do a federal acquisition, regulation contracts and stuff. I'm very aware of what's legal and illegal here. I'm not a lawyer. I mean, I'm, but I'm saying I know what I would have gotten in trouble for sure. So what happens, let's just do a hypothetical that some government team recovers an alien artifact. They release a call for proposals to the people who have the right clearances because they're classified proposals, right, calls and say, okay, propose for this and they award somebody, some contractor, contractor X, a contract to work on this thing. As soon as they deliver the product, the device or whatever artifact as government furnished equipment, GFE, in the contract, they'll say that. This is GFE. Then it's in the hands, they're the curators of it, but it's still the government's property. At that point, the government cancels the contract and says, we're going to abandon in place, and this is an official legal term used in the federal acquisition regulations. The government can abandon in place anything that they've left at a contractor facility and the contractor can then do anything they want to with it. They can throw in the dumpster if they want. They can give it to their grandma. It doesn't matter. It's theirs. It says, I don't want to do this anymore. This is how it works. It's legal to abandon in place. Then suddenly, that same contractor X, bid zone, let's say, F-22 contract or a F-35 contract or a future combat systems contract and they get a $70 billion contract for 10 years. Then this guy, who is the government employee, retires, and guess what? He suddenly got a job with seven figures working from one of these contractors. That's what the whistleblower has told us. That scenario, we've seen happen without being alien stuff. We've just seen it happen. We all see it. I'm convinced that that has happened since the '40s. I'm convinced of it. I think Howard Hughes even said, basically, that that was what was happening. He did. He talked about anti-gravity ships and stuff. Man, I don't know. Is there a legacy program? I can't prove it, but I've seen so many doors slammed in my face or had so many people tell me not to look at that or talk about that or your career will be ended if people think you're nuts. Those kind of things. Why? What's driving them? What's driving them to push so hard? I mean, since I've been on that skin walker, the, the, the, some of the antibody press has really kind of like this guy talking about my alleged education, for example. You know, some people read that and probably believe that I made it up, right? And all he would have had to done was do his homework. - Yeah, that's Operation Mockingbird still in action. - That's exactly it, you got it. And so who is behind that? That is the big thing that bothers me the most. 'Cause I spent my life since I was 17 years old as a civil servant, serving the country that I believe in. And then I get to this point and I see that there's something else going on that, you know, we're not in control of what we think we're in control of. Well, let's take a quick break. We'll talk more about that later, but when we come back, I want to talk a little bit of quantum mechanics, if you don't mind. I can always talk about quantum mechanics. I'll be right back. 'Cause you worked at the US Army Space and Missile Defense Command. Principal scientists of quantum entanglement and space technologies lab. What does the Army want to do? What's the Army that's around with quantum mechanics for? - Well, many reasons. One is our other sensors that would use new methods of quantum physics that would give you more information on battle assessment, battlefield awareness, and so on. The other would be communications. If you can do quantum entanglement and cryptid communications and what I was specifically working on as my main project at the time, was to create a satellite experiment that would use quantum encrypted communications so that no one could eavesdrop or spoof or jam the comms to the battle groups on the ground. - Didn't China just do this? - Well, you're thinking of the, it spelled Misha, so I think they pronounce it something like Mosa or something like that is how to understand Chinese spelling and pronounce the pronunciations. But they're talking about that experiment where yes, they did a what's called a QKD quantum key distribution experiment where they flew a satellite in 2016, 2017 timeframe and they encrypted a video transmission with their quantum key and did it from one point on one part of the globe to another part, which was really impressive and exciting. There are a lot of people who tried to debunk it and say that they didn't really achieve it, but I was on one of the teams to look at what they did and as far as I can tell, it was functional. And it's really interesting, not tuning my own horn, but myself and one of my first mentors, Dr. Friend, Cisco, Jay Dorte, Frank Dorte. He and I wrote a paper in 2015 that laser-focused world nominated as one of the top 10 papers of the year and we showed that quantum communications would be the key for encrypted satellite communications. And then within a year the Chinese did it. And so at least we thought of it. (laughing) - But they did it. - But they went and did it. So, but my lab was a hybrid lab between University of Alabama, Huntsville and the Army, space and missile defense command, to get smart young folks in there working on it, hands on building the experiment, building the space hardware. And we'd already flown one project on the International Space Station for 28 months. And our second mission was to fly the quantum communications package. And we got the first prototype built and then politics changed within the Army. And some group said, well, where are they only group in the Army that's supposed to be doing that? So they pulled our funding and put it there. And we sort of limped along. But I also, that was about the time that I had pulled into the UAP task force. And so my focus was sort of reoriented. - Well, I understand how quantum encryption would work, but why would entangle it be necessary? - So, that way you can over large distances create your key on both ends. - Oh, that's right. - So you have your entangled photons, right? Flipping up or down. And if you measure over here, whatever it is, you know what the other one is supposed to be. And so what happens is this person gets a key and tangles it, sends it over to the other person. And then they send through a regular comms channel, I use this measurement tool to measure it. And so then they take that measurement tool and do some adjustment to it, measure, and whatever they get then, it tells them what their key was. And so if they don't have both of those, the actual entangled piece and the classical comm piece, then you can't get the key, you can't open the door. And so that's a perfect encryption. - And it's not breakable? - Well, there are some quantum hacks that have been discovered since, but it's not, I don't think it's really been done in application, right? It's theoretically possible. - In theory, you should be able to break it, I guess instantly, right? - Well, but if you do break it, the other guy knows that you broke it. - That's right. - So if anybody eavesdrops on you, you know that you've been eavesdropped on. And so that's useful as well, right? - Yeah. - And so that's what we're working on. And it was an exciting project, it was hard. I mean, it's one of those things that nobody had done yet. So I mean, other than the Chinese, but nobody had done it in this country yet. And the problem was, the problem with this country is for the research funds, you got so many people fighting and stabbing each other in the back over getting something done that were our own worst enemy in that regard. Instead of saying, oh, these guys have done great work. We should go look and see what they've done. And maybe we get funding to do something similar or whatever and say that we better kill them and get their funding. That's how it works in this country. I mean, it really does. And our scientific community, publication community, it's all a big Spanish inquisition. It's a mess. - Were you studying quantum field theory and then decided to just write the textbook yourself? - That is exactly what I did. - What was wrong with the syllabus that you had to write your own textbook as a student? - Well, so what happened was I noticed that quantum field theory was on the catalog for the University Alabama Huntsville Physics Department but it was never offered. Now, I went to the dean and said, "Why wasn't it not offered?" I've been studying. I'd want to take a official course in it. And he said, "Well, we don't have anybody "that wants to teach it." And he said, "I could, but I don't have time." And I said, "Well, say what? "Let me see if I can create a syllabus for you "and write the course." And so I started putting the coursework together. I got several other textbooks looking at him like read like stereo instructions, you know, instead of trying to explain it in a way that a student can understand it. And so to teach myself, you know, quantum field theory, I mean, I had to learn it well enough that I could teach it to somebody else, right? Explain it to the third grader, so to speak. - Right. - Which is, that's a hard one to do, by the way. - Yes, it is. Who did you study to put that together? - So there are several books, the two main sets of books that I used were a book by Cloudber and then one by Lan Kester and Blundel. There was like something like a quantum physics for gifted amateur and one student-friendly quantum field theory or something like that. And then there was the standard textbooks that people have used and I looked at what I found in my T, coursework online, and just everywhere I could find information, I'd read, I'd read everything about this particular piece of it and be like, I don't understand what they were telling me there. This one, I kinda understand, I don't, then I figure out after, you know, putting it all together a way to understand it. And so I said, well, I kind of have done all this work. It might as well be a book. And so I contacted the publisher who published my rocket science book. And they said, we would love to have a quantum field theory book. First graduate course in that? Yeah, we'd love to do that. And so I spent the next year putting that book together. Did they take your course? Well, I've taught it. The book just came out six months ago. Oh, it did? Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I just finished it not long ago. And I've already found a couple of errors in it, so I'm about to do an updated edition or something to fix it. But that's usually what happens with textbooks. You teach a class in it and the students find where you made a mistake. Sure. And so I'm hoping that somebody adopts it and they'll get notes from professors and well, there's error here, there's, you know, that's happening with my rocket science book too, so. Yeah, I get emails from fans and scientists say all the things I got wrong. I heard, I heard about that. (laughing) Were you working on decoherence when you were in the lab? So a little bit. One of the things that we were really interested in that I, me specifically, was how do we know, or how does it know to decoher? What is the thing that triggers what is called the collapse of the wave function in quantum physics? And there are a lot of people that debate it. That people still think that I want to argue with you that no, it's just statistics and never was this live and dead cat in the box, but we've done experiments that suggest that it is a superposition of two states at once, the cat's alive and dead in the box at the same time. But for how long? So you know, pinros, Roger pinros, this is what I was getting at. Has a theory called quantum gravity and it's not really tying gravity to quantum physics, it's just what he called it. That based on how much mass an object has, is how long it can stay in this superposition of unknown states, right, like the cats alive and dead. But since the cat is so heavy, it's like, you know, billions of a second or something, a nanosecond, or even less, that it could be in flux. But an electron, for example, whose mass is tiny, like 10 to the minus 31 kilograms or something, that's so small you can't even imagine, so many zeroes, you know, that it can stay in that flux for almost forever, unless something interacts with it. And so where is the middle ground where there are big things, big enough things that you can watch and see it happen. And I think there were some experiments done with the micron size, you know, a millionth of a meter sized nanotubes, like carbon filaments, like the size of a human hair, something like that, under certain field conditions. And they've been able to see it perform at both states at once, meaning that the cat is alive and dead in the box. It's just a little bity box. Sure. And a very cooperative cat. I've always said, I don't know how Shreddinger was going to get that cat in the box in the first place. Now, cat will jump into a box if you leave it there open. But you can't put it in there. Put it in there. If it cats do what they want to do. So so Techmark says that decoherence is almost instant and warm wet environment. Yeah, that's not really true. Is it though? Well, that's the warm squishy brain idea. So what you're getting at is quantum consciousness, right? And pinrows and camera hall or thinking about bird's eyes and quantum tunneling through all factory senses. Even before we get the consciousness. Well, one of the things that that led me down this path was my first child was born in 2004. And when my wife was pregnant, I remember watching all these videos about, well, at this stage, the baby grows, this happens and this happens. And I go, how the hell do they know? Why does it do that? And nobody knows why these things are happening. They just, it's just been, they've watched them so long. They say, this is what usually happens. It's just observation. It's not knowledge, right? And what's triggering these things to happen? And how does it know? And then the things happen in ways that seem faster than they should be able to happen. They still don't really know. No, they don't have any idea. No. And so now I think, well, if you get a splinter in your finger, the immune response happens immediately. And it's much faster than the ion channel to travel from your arm up to your brain and back down your brain and back to say sin stuff there, right? So could it be through a quantum connection through an interaction? And that's what led me to start studying pin rows and hammer-offs orchestrated objective reduction and the warm squishy brain thing. Right. And you know, there are people who haven't really paid attention to that. The idea is that there are these proteins in your brain. And there's more of these proteins in your brain than there are grains of sand on the beach or stars in the universe. Triptophan? No, they're called tubulins. Oh, the micro tubes. Yeah. Okay. And the protein, the tubulin protein. It's a triptophancy amino acid in those. Yeah. Okay. Go ahead. So pin rows and hammer-off hypothesize that these tubulins can trap an electron like the cat in the box, right? And so that protein becomes what's called a qubit, a quantum processor. And that's what we're building right now at Google, at IBM, you know, these quantum qubit processors. And where the programs that we've built quantum computers physically, there are tens to hundreds of qubit processors. There are like 10 to the 20 or so of them in your brain. And so doesn't matter if they deco here quickly. This is where tagmark didn't pay attention to engineering. Right. So even if they do deco here so quickly, there's 10 to the 20 something of them. That's that's a good point. And they could be deco hearing, but they could be reinforced by the next one not being deco here, yet. And so on. Triptophan does reinforce these. Well, and there's other, so here's the thought about that. Is there architecture in your brain to do error reduction? That's why you would, you know what? When you do error reduction in computing processing, you add extra processors. Right. Guess what? There are 10 to the 20 something of these processors in your brain. And so I believe that that your brain is a quantum computer, whether it was organically grown, designed by, you know, the Anunnaki or whatever you want. I don't care. But that's what's happening. And it's led me to write a book in the early 2000s called the science behind the secret. And I was watching, my wife that I were watching these, it's when the secret came out. It was all popular. No one, I don't know. There was people who were on Oprah talking about it. We all read it. Yep. We all read it. And they started talking about, well, it's, you know, it's like electromagnetic, electromagnetic magnetism. And I'm like, well, that it's not right. Like electromagnetic, because in, in magnets and electricity, like things repel each other. And you're saying like things stay. And I said, the only thing that does that, I know of is quantum physics, because in quantum, quantum wave functions will have constructive interference if the wave functions are similar. And they would be destructive if they are dissimilar. So like things would stay and unlike things would go away. And that started leading me to think, well, what they're saying in the secret isn't, they're not physicists. They're like self-help people, philosophers, whatever. They don't understand what they're saying. But they're saying it right. Right. And so I started looking at the quantum physics of the human brain and how the universe works. And it led me down this path of looking into ancient texts, even more so than just for things like from ancient astronaut hypothesis, right? More than deeper than Vandana can, you know, more of the William Henry sort of direction. Sure. And it led me into really wanting to understand quantum physics at a level of, is there an observer effect that are we influencing every experiment, everything that happens? And, and here's the thing that gets me is, how do I have dreams of people I don't know in detail? We all do. Yeah. So, and but you know them in the dream? Yes. And I know these environments in the dream that I've never been to. Is it, am I that good at making up stuff? Or is my brain in idle mode and the noise floor is brought down because all my other systems are shut down? And I'm connecting like a quantum transceiver to other quantum transmissions that are happening. And, and I'm decoding it. And I'm like playing that game. I'm part of that reality for a minute. And I, that leads me down the path that because we don't understand dreams, cause we don't understand things like DMT, because we don't understand that when people are hallucinating that their brain function actually goes into a coma like state instead of hyperactive, that leads me to think that we're doing something more on the lines of detecting quantum information because you got to, it's very sensitive to noise, right? And so if you brought the noise down, then you're seeing things that aren't usually there or detecting things that aren't usually there or having experiences you don't usually experience. It suggests to me, that sounds like quantum physics. Well, you brought up DMT. So, we've got migratubules that are loaded with a trip to fan, which turns into trip to men, add two methyl groups and now you've got DMT. And it's, you're brain is full of these amino acids. It's just can't be an accident. No, it can't be an accident. It can't, that that sounds like it's the best video game system ever created, right? Yep. I mean, it's better than neural ink. You ever do DMT? No, I don't. I've, I've, I've had a security clearance instance since I was 17. Oh yeah. And it's susceptible to drug tests and, and lie detector to poly, polygraphs for a very long time. And so the only advice that I have is, is occasional alcohol. Fair enough, I broke my clearance. But it's, it's a weird world when you go into the DMT world because it feels so real. I've had a lot of, so as you can imagine, doing this kind of thing, they're, they're a cameraman and sound guys and people who have been in the entertainment industry. And they don't have such rules and regulations. And they tell me many stories. And it's, what's really interesting to me is how the high waska and the DMT stories, they all say the same thing. Yeah, they see the same creatures. They have the same experience. Why? Right? I don't know. I've seen the mantis being really. I don't know why. And I don't think it's because you were front loaded. Nope. It didn't feel like it. It seems to me more like, like that looking from a peripheral vision to see things that you can't normally see. That's a good segue into skin walker because we have to talk about it. When you got to the ranch, you were there to debunk it, weren't you? Yeah, man. When I got there, I knew it was going to be like Scooby-Doo, man. I was, I was going to get there and as a whole man withers, you know. And then we had to get away with it. We're for these meddling kids. But do you find withers yet? No. I've been there for eight years and I've yet to find old men withers. In fact, I'm more confused today than I was before I went, you know, after eight years. What was that first experiment that first reading? Well, go wait a minute. So, I mean, I literally been there 30 minutes to an hour. That's it? Yeah. The first time to visit Brandon Fugel, the owner, Flumeon on his helicopter, we landed at the helipad, we got out and had lunch, and then walked up to the top of the mesa where they just put out a new sensor. They were going to show me the sensor, and I carried a spectrum analyzer with me as we went. And the other scientists there had one with him, Eric Bard, and we were there up on top of the mesa. We just got there. And then suddenly my spectrum analyzer pegged out in the microwaves, and I mean pegged out, like not popping popcorn on the inside, but if you were popping popcorn and held your microwave detector right by the door, that's how much microwaves I was detecting coming from everywhere. Wow. And what was the frequency? It was around 1.6 gigahertz, and that's, you know, that's right where GPS is, that's where space to keep going. Ground is 1.575, and heredium is 1.6.1. Yep. That's a busy frequency. That is a very, it's all spaced to ground, ground space kind of stuff. And it was pegged. Pegged. And it was coming out of the ground. Well, is it? I don't know. I mean, I looked for it, I was like, I was like scratching my head, running around crazy, like, you know, a chicken with his head cut off, not understanding what's going on. I was literally like a cockroach in a microwave, running around. Yeah. I was running, like trying to figure out what was going on. Well, you drilled? What's down there? Don't know. So we drilled in a spot where ground penetrating radar told us there was some big anomaly in there. And when we hit something and we put pressure against it, 8,000 pounds of pressure against it for like minutes, many minutes, and you'd think a drill bit would have got high didn't it cooled off, which is odd. The friction would have been enormous unless it were frictionless. Odd. Impossible. Right. Unless it were frictionless or something. But what we found in the spoils pile, when we pulled the drill bit out, were these pieces of metallic fragments and they were ceramic like. And when we went and had them analyzed, they had been centered and built in a blast furnace in a way that the experts in the material in the metallurgy lab said were like tiles on the space shuttle that are used for reentry or their own starship now, right? They use the same kind of tiles. It's not the exact chemical makeup, but were built or manufactured in the same way. So there was something manufactured inside this mason. This was 377 feet in and 78, 75 feet I think down. Was this an alloy? It was a mixture. It was a compound. It was a compound. So it was made. It was made. Yes. What were the metals? What were the components? Well, so it had a little bit of aluminum in it. Oh, what's really interesting is it had a mixture of 50% aluminum and 50% iron in some of the metal fragments, which we don't do that. We don't mix 50, 50 aluminum and iron. No. Why? What did that come from? And then the ceramic like fragments had all sorts of materials in it like there was some thorium. There was a there was so that's radioactive. Yeah, it was very low level. It was very, very, very low level it was a what else is in it there was of course there's a lot of carbon there. There was a little bit of aluminum. There was it was almost like aluminum cutting blades it was almost that kind of material or I originally could say that it was kind of like a break pad, you know, right? I thought somebody's buried a car down in there, right? But it wasn't exactly a break pad, right? It was more like it was hard on the outside and more fragile on the inside. And we took it and put it in an electron microscope at the University of Utah Valley University in the physics department there. And when we hit it with electron beams, it would open up and we turned the electron beams off. It would close back up. And exactly the same configuration it did at every time. Like like self healing metal. Well, that's what we thought it was. We thought we were blowing holes in it first and it was and it was healing itself. But it appeared to be more like an umbrella that it was opening and closing or a pom-pom when you put it in a static electric field or your hair will stand up and then it will go back down. It seemed more like that. But we're still to a lot more experimentation on that to figure that out. And some of the metal fragments we found were in layers that had the iron and aluminum mixture as the middle, the Oreo part. And then the cookie part was on one side was almost pure telurium. And the other side was almost pure aeropium. And that's really similar to how we build solar panels. And that's really hard also. You know, how did that get inside this Mesa, you know, 30 something at the maximum height or the closest to the surface that our holes got to was 38 feet down, but the materials we believe came out around 78 feet, 75 feet down and 370 something feet in. How big is this object according to the GPR? Well, it's like 20 meters wide and it could be as much as, you know, 50 meters like a cigar shape. It's cigar shape? Yeah. It looks, it would tell you what, it looks like they're smaller pieces all around it. It literally looks like, like an airplane crash debris field. It literally looks like something crashed into the Mesa and there's pieces spread out in there. I mean, and here's the most bizarre thing. We were looking at the material, the metal fragment and from the elemental analysis of it, the night we found it, we used an equipment we had on a ranch. And I said, well, it's not a meteor fragment and the Eric Bard said, well, the only thing it's missing to be a meteor would be to have some nickel in it. The next morning, oh no, the archaeologist pulled out of the same spot, 370 something feet in, 70 something feet down, a 1964 nickel. How can a 1964 nickel get inside the Mesa? It can't. Well, so we went, so I freaked me out, right? Our archaeologist said, well, that means there was a dig here. So what do you mean? He said, oh, it's a standard protocol, the archaeologists are trained that when you finish a dig, you drop a coin from that year in the dig, so future archaeologists will know there was a dig here. And he said, I'll bet you anything there was a dig here in 1964. So I went and got, man, man, the other guys we went and got every publicly available aerial photograph of the property all the way from 1935. And what's interesting is from 1963 to 1968, the 63 is the last one and then 69 is the next one. There are no images from 64 to 68 that are available publicly. None. Zero. I don't like it, man. None. Can't be. And so it's really bizarre that something happened there and it's been covered and we wonder there's this myth of people say bad things happen to you if you dig on skin walker ranch makes me wonder if it was more of a non disclosure agreement saying bad things will happen to you if you dig on skin walker ranch. It sounds like it. I mean, we were talking earlier. I said it when we were watching the show because I thought it was like another oak island thing and you're like, no, man, it's all real what we're doing there. But what did you find on the ranch that that compelled you to go to Washington and getting the skiff? Yeah. So, well, that first day when I started big detecting these microwaves, they were, they were at levels that would be in violation of FCC regulations, right? Well, I guess it could jam the satellites. Yes. Yes. Oh, so that. And I was like, this is somebody's doing something nefarious is what I thought. Was it Russians, is it Chinese, is it some kid doing something stupid, but somebody that will feel disruption if you could do. Oh, Lord, yeah. And none of our GPS stuff would work. Right. So, I'm thinking, oh, somebody's jamming GPS and why? No guidance or ordinance. Well, think about airplanes landing at an airport. Right. I really was kind of freaking me out. So, I went to my, I had security clearance, you know, my day job was still with the army and I went and told our security guys, they said, well, I don't know what to do with that. Let me see. So, you need to talk to and they kept handing me off up the food chain. And at the same time, one of our other guys that was there with me that day, one of the scientists on the team, he had contacted some contacts and they kept doing the same going up and trying to figure it out. And eventually, we got handed off to, well, you need to have a meeting with these people in the Pentagon. And so, all right. So, I flew up to the Pentagon and briefed them on all the data. We were going to skiff and these two guys come in and I noticed that one of them had a copy of my alien invasion book, which is a serious book. I wrote in 2003 with one of my mentors in the intelligence community, Dr. Bob Bone. We were at a three-letter organization meeting and a serious book called Alien Invasion. Yes. It's a textbook on how we would defend the planet and what we should be doing to prepare. Okay. So, yeah. We were in that. Yeah. We were in this meeting is after, you know, two years after 9/11, we're in deep-in operation and account, all that stuff's going on. And so, this is a pop secret meeting on how to come up with clever ways to understand asymmetric warfare and all this stuff, right? You know, we were on the high side, of course, the Iraqis and the Afghanis and all those were on the low side. So, we're, we're in this meeting and this three-star general makes this comment and they're - Wow, we need a, but I don't know. ourselves in our enemy shoes and walk a mile in them so we can understand how to think like them. And I laughed. And at this time, I was out loud. Yes. Yeah. At this time, I was like a GS 14 equivalent. And this was a three star. And, and, and he got her up, you know, and, and, and my boss, my mentor just, he said, he's like, oh, what, what's, I know what's coming now? But our boss was a, a one star equivalent in the three-letter organization. And, and he kind of looked at me like, I don't know if you should say anything, but you know, you have something to say. And I said, well, sir, our poor people have X boxes and two TVs and a car in the driveway. And they have $100 shoes. It's unlikely that they'll ever be able to understand these, these people that we're fighting because they have a completely different world they live in. And only way Americans would ever be on the low side of asymmetric war was if we were invaded by aliens. I was doing a typical southern thing, explaining by exaggeration. Well, the general just kind of rolled his eyes and moved on. So after the meeting or, or at a break in the meeting, we're in the, in the, in the break room, and I'm getting a soft drink or whatever. And, and, and the three-letter boss comes up to me, three-letter organization, boss comes up to me and he says, what would we do if we were invaded by aliens? That's my next question. And, and, and I said, we'd probably die. Oh, no. And he said, well, do we have a plan? And I say, well, I think you would know more about that than I, and he said, well, why don't you two look and he just talk to me in my mentor and said, why don't you two look and see what you can come up with? And so we spent the next year studying warfare, warfare models, intelligence models, technologies, and it led us to, we kind of threw together this book on all the things that we'd studied. And of course, we briefed it at other levels, but we, but we asked them, can we publish this as a, as a book, and I'm sure we don't care. You know, and so we did. And it's interesting on the cover of the book, the first version of it, the chief scientist of the, in our role, actually put on there that it was, it was fascinating. So in any way, we, so I mean, move back, move back to where we were with the Skinwalker story. So I mean, this room in the Pentagon, this guy's got a copy of my book. And it's got some posted notes in it. And after a bit, he asked everybody else to leave, but me. And he says, I'm Jay Stratton. I'm the director of the government's president, UFO program. And I was at Skinwalker Ranch in 2009, or whatever it was, 2009. And he said, I'm aware of what's going on out there. And I'd like for you to come work for us on the UAP task force. It wouldn't call that. It's called, at the time, it's called the interagency task force. And it was, that's just how we referred to it. There was no official title for it. But it was official and funded. It just didn't have an official title. I think for a purpose, right? Right. If they give it a title, then they have to worry about explaining it to somebody. Right. A tip was not an official title. No. A tip was never an official title. So what it was, OSAP was actually a contract. Right. That's Bigelow's program. Yep. And what it was, they actually released a call for proposals. And Bigelow airspace was the only company that responded to the proposal. So I mean, they awarded a contract. Sure. And then when, so the interesting thing about that and the, the original award was for 20 something million dollars. But some people in the Pentagon found out about what was going on, didn't like it and, and pulled about half of the money. And I think Bigelow, I don't, I mean, rightfully so got pissed, you know, they didn't get all the money that he was supposed to get. And so what, what you got from the end results of that was just a final report written by Eric Davis and how put off or whatever. And none of the details of the findings there by thinks Bigelow still has something hidden away. Somewhere here in Vegas at his facility, you know, I, I, whether that's the case or not, I, it doesn't matter. I mean, what the government got was what they got. Right. And I don't think he's hiding anything. I don't, I don't think Bigelow's hiding anything at all. In fact, when we've talked to him, he doesn't have any desire to go back to the property. Uh, he, he thinks it, it was not beneficial to him and his family, right? And, uh, uh, and, and by the end of it, they were so perplexed as to what the hell was going on that they, I think they just kind of gave up. And while they weren't, well, he was happy to get rid of it at the same time. He's still curious. I think he, I think him and, well, I know him and Jay still talk a lot. And I think him and Brandon talk occasionally as well, Brandon Fugel, the new owner of the property. Well, I think Bob wants to know what's going on. He just doesn't want to pay for it though. I, I get the impression that, uh, he became a billionaire by not wasting his money. Of course. And when I talk to the, his team members of time, they didn't have a lot of funds and a lot of resources, right? I mean, they, they would get stuff when they needed it. But it, uh, and here's the other thing. In the 90s and early 2000s when they did this, the technology that we're using today would have cost them hundreds of thousands of dollars. And we're paying 50 bucks or 100 bucks for something that's such a really exquisite piece of equipment now. So just due to, you know, more potential, uh, the new, the research we're doing out there now is, is way better funded. It's way better documented. I mean, we've got better equipment just cause technology and improvement, right? Before we get back to the ranch, can you tell me what's an alien invasion? What's our strategy? What are our tactics? So, um, I created a model. First is to be prepared. That was our first thing was basically the Boy Scout model. Be prepared, right? And we're not. No, we're not whether we don't, we, when we talked to people within the services and the agencies, they all said, we treat it like any other invasion and, and do reconnaissance and then decide on a tactical plan. They had no strategic plan, right? For this is all going to be, we'll treat it just like any other warfare. But it's not going to be like any other warfare. If they can travel from here to there, they're, they're going to have levels of technologies that, uh, we look like magic and we're going to think about that. And we actually came up with scenarios that were religious invasions, uh, political invasions, uh, you know, magic, the, you know, things like that that we wouldn't really, our time invasions, uh, one of the things that time invasions, yeah, think about, think about like this, uh, I use Independence Day as a perfect example. They, people don't think about what was going on in, in Independence Day. They say, well, that ship crashed here in the 50s or whatever. And we were, we had reversed the engine here and much on it. Well, did it crash here in the 50s for the aliens? If that mother ship was approaching it and slowing down from near the speed of light and they sent this gout ship out there, uh, it could have been five minutes on board the ship. Right. Right. And, uh, and they could have been, they, they could have known that and been done something to prepare us in a way that would embed weaknesses into our systems, right? Uh, and so we're not thinking about any strategic, uh, plans like that. And so I created from what's called Lanchester's laws. It's where every video game engine, every, every combat model, everything is based on and they were created in 1917 and, and Rico Fermi should have known better when he, when he did his stupid Fermi's paradox thing. Yeah. We could talk about that, but that it's just stupid. Um, anyway, these paradoxes stupid. Like, where are the aliens? Yeah. That's the dumbest thing because he based it on, uh, exponential growth model. Yeah. And there was no known species period in history that's ever grown that way. And with, especially with no competition, et cetera. And, uh, and the way predator prey species work was known very well. And it was created a set of laws called Lanchester's laws in 1917. And that's, like I said, uh, Lanchester was given money by the war department to study predator and prey, uh, models to create models for warfare. And it worked very well. Otherwise, Call of Duty wouldn't work the way it does, right? Fortnite wouldn't work the way it does. All these things wouldn't work the way they do. And, um, so, um, anyway, if Fermi would have known that, he would have realized his question was using math that didn't fit the, the, the model, right? It was, he said, well, I'm going to apply this math that we know doesn't fit any known species and say, well, then all the species in the universe have already overrun us by now. Well, but that's not the same model. It's, it's, it's, it's really bad science. It's really bad science. And for a Nobel Prize winning Manhattan Project physicist to have done that, I call that the, uh, famous scientist phenomenon. Sure. Just because he was famous, everybody believes it, right? And I, I, I refer to it as Fermi's blunder. I don't refer to it as Fermi's paradox. Right. There's no such thing as elephants. Why not? I've never seen one. That's right. I've never seen one. Hey, people think that reindeer can't fly. Have you ever seen them not? I mean, have you ever, I've just caused you haven't seen them. They don't mean they can't. They just choose not to when you're there, right? So, uh, that's that, that's that square root of four thing. Yeah. Right. So, uh, uh, where were we going with that? Lance. Lance. Oh, yeah. So, so I created a model, uh, in detail on a modern invasion scenario, a counter for everything, mobile forces, ground forces, air forces, artillery, uh, blue on blue, which is, you know, self, uh, inflexion. And, uh, everything I, I could think of in, in bedded in the model and then started running scenarios of invasions. And I would give the invading force, force multipliers. Like for example, it would take 10 hits of five, six, five round, you know, before it would penetrate and they have armor or force field or whatever. Is the Call of Duty bullet sponge pretty much? Yeah. Yeah. And I would give them speed. Maybe their mobile forces were three times faster. I tried all sorts of different scenarios and basically in no scenario, did we win and I did something like a hundred to two hundred different scenarios. And the only one that we that I did find a solution where we would win. It was really interesting. I said, well, let's try and depend this day. All of them at once. They come here and they invade us and let's say that they can get reinforcements back from their home world, say every 20 years and to some amount of reinforcements. I gave them numbers. Right. If they started with some number, say they had a hundred to start with and they could get 10 every 10 whatever was. And the invasion starts. They pretty much wipe out 90% of the population in the first, you know, day. But now here's the scenario. Every human being of the age 14 or older, which is I just guess it's age old enough to carry a weapon. Was carrying a weapon or in some form or fashion supporting the war effort. Every female of fertile age was pregnant with triplets. Okay. And at that point, the population starts in cycles increasing to a point where we had a resistance basically an asymmetric situation. And after about 40 years, it became too expensive for the aliens and they would either completely be a treated or give up and leave. And when I got to look at the model, I realized I just recreated the Soviet Afghan war. Yes. In the 70s, yes. And that's exactly what happened. Right. Now the only thing different is the Afghans did have a symmetric organization feeding technologies to them. They did. We gave them anti-aircraft weapons and stuff, but our anti helicopter mostly. But that it was the only scenario where we as if we create a resistance movement, we repopulate as fast as possible. And so I was thinking, you know, fertility drugs, whatever. Was it America only or the whole world? The whole world. Yeah. So that has to happen too. Yeah. Everybody's got to get in line. Yeah. Well, so the onslaught at the beginning would just remove, you know, government lines. That's true. Yeah. It's disto. It's, it's terminator at that point. Yeah. Yeah. I got to read this kind of dark. It's, yeah, it's, it's, uh, it reads very, it was, it was written like a textbook. It was dry. But it, but it, it is to say, all right, somebody needs to look at this and realize we're not doing it. You know, one of the things that, um, that Jay and I had had planned to do. And I, it's one of my plans. I, I've written about, I've talked about that the first thing you have to do to create a real team is they have to have a common nomenclature. And so for the first month, two months, I would have the entire team watching every science fiction movie, reading every comic book, watching every cartoon, because I'll give you a perfect example. Uh, John Ringo, best son, military science fiction writer, and I co authored a book called von Neumann's War. Uh, is a science fiction, uh, basically of von Neumann probes came here, and we started defending against them. Well, I had one of the, they, they did this in the book. They had a team where they, they got together and they spent like two weeks cramming on every sci-fi thing they could. And somebody realized that in the second season of Justice League Unlimited, there was an episode called dark heart. And dark heart was a von Neumann probe generating device crashed on earth and started creating von Neumann probes, replicators, it's going everywhere. And they were eating everything and reproducing themselves. And the entire Justice League couldn't defeat these things. It was Superman and all of them, you know. And, uh, it took the, the atom, Ray Park, Dr. Park, to, uh, uh, uh, realize he had to go down in nanoscale and find their, their main processor chip that had the program to replicate and turn it off. But, uh, this polar, I guess, uh, but I had the nomenclature to be able to tell you, tell people, hey, what if it's the dark heart scenario, and we need to figure out if there's something like what they, how they did that. You know, or, or what if, and not to, you know, throw rocks at a Steven Spielberg movie, but if you ever saw the, uh, the miniseries he did that made Dakota fanning famous, uh, taken. Yes. And if you watch disclosure day, they're the same plot. Yes. Did you notice that? Of course. That was the same plot. Uh, everything. I didn't love that movie. Yeah. I was, I was hoping for, it was, it was not bad. It was a movie. It's a Spielberg movie. Yeah. Uh, uh, you know, it was, but, but my, my point was I just used a previous nomenclature to tell you what this scenario was. And now I don't have to go and figure out way to explain it to everybody. We have a common language that we can speak. I could say, oh, you remember that episode of Stargate S.D.1, right where they did this or that? Are you remember the, we had a conversation earlier, where I brought up Star Trek next generation, that episode of the three. Right. I get it now. Yeah. And so that's, that's our common nomenclature. And I wonder if we've been doing that by accident on purpose. That's interesting. Yeah. I hope so. I hope so too. Speaking of your books, your first book, I think was about a physicist who does something that gets like the government angry or the cabal or something like that. Was that warp drive? So warp speed, warp speed. Well, it was a little, it's a little. So it was about the first group of scientists that that build a warp drive demonstrator. And they, they go to, it's a space shuttle era. So this was written in 2000. And they go up to do the experiment on the shuttle and unbeknownst to them. Of course, there are some bad guys who realize that a warp drive would be much better than a nuclear weapon. Sure. If you slammed it into the, slammed an object into the planet at, you know, speeder, the speed of light, you know, you'd crack the planet half. Yeah. Whatever. You know, I don't know why people would want a weapon that would do that unless you're planning on fighting a whole planet. But. And so there was a lot of mayhem that ensued with that. And it turned out the sequel to that. Actually, I went more into what that cabal was. And it didn't have anything to do with great aliens from Zeta Reticula. Well, you eventually, you spent a lot of time in the intelligence community. So what did that author get right? What did I get right in that? And you get right. And over your career, like, well, shit. I wrote about that 10 years ago. Yeah. So, you know, I had to, before I could release those, the first ones, I was heavy into the IC stuff. And they had to pre-read it and and do adopters, what they call it now, you know. Yeah. You say it's a, you can release it to the public. And then after I started being more prolific, I wrote about four or five science fiction novels all at once. It comes, it comes and goes in surges, right? And so the review team was like, and we're not going to keep doing these. You know if it's classified or not, don't put it in there. If you do, you'll get in trouble, right? I mean, that's basically it. And so they said, we're not reviewing your science fiction stuff anymore. It's science fiction. And so, but I've always done my best to make it hard science. It's true to possible as it could be with as few magic ones as possible. Of course, there has to be a magic one that, you know, we haven't invented yet. Or, or it's not as much fun. I mean, would Raiders of the Lost Ark be as awesome if the Ark didn't do what it did at the end? No, you need the faces to melt. Yeah, you have to. Right. So, that's kind of the way they are. But I, I, I got, I did things like with security clearances. And, and oh, you couldn't carry a cell phone. Like, that's one of the things that kills me about Stargate SG1. Is they get a lot of it right. But you'll see them in the, in the facility with their cell phones. Yeah. And I'm like, there's a lock box right outside the door that you know there's no cell phones in there. Unless they had some kind of alien technology that allowed them to have super secret cell phones that, that could do that. But there, there, there are a lot of little things like that to get on my nerves when I see that. How close is your warp drive to like the Albuquerra drive? So it was basically in Alcubiary. Was it? Yeah. So explain how that works. Yeah. So, in 1994, Miguel Alcubiary wrote a paper called something like a hyper fast travel within general relativity. And the, the paper showed that if you created a, basically a, a dip in space in front of you and a bump in space behind you that, that space time itself would push your spacecraft. Not, you wouldn't need a propulsion, you know, exhaust or anything. It would just, space time would move it. It would just fall. Yeah. And keep falling. And you can make it fall as fast as you want to arbitrarily fast speeds, he said. But the problem with his paper is he showed that it took basically all the matter in the universe energy wise to create that. But immediately, but so but that's okay. He showed that it was doable within the the theory of physics as we understand it our standard model. And then that says okay, then if he can do it this way, are there other ways to do it that makes it, you know, actually engineeringable, uh, engineerable, I guess. Uh, anyway, so immediately before he'd wrote it 94 before 2000 area were, I'm going to say 100 papers written where they kept incrementally getting his theory better, the idea better that okay, we can and got down to say, oh, the mass of a star. Uh, then oh wait, the, the mass of a planet. Now, and you know, I recently had a paper published about a year ago in journal, British and planetary, uh, society, uh, that showed that. If you made layers of material, uh, and you had the warp field in the material, that you could get to almost no, uh, exotic, uh, matter requirement and, and it's not the matter, the mass of a star or the mass of a galaxy, you can get down to you actual numbers that we could actually engineer. I think I read this paper is this about the electromagnetic field through the, through the waveguides of the, of the metal. It's similar. That was one of the papers. There's a paper like that I use as a reference, okay, but uh, I'll send you a copy of it. Uh, it actually shows that, uh, the idea is you can modify Einstein's equations in the material, right? So it's like, you don't change the speed of light in the air, you change the speed of light in the material that is the whole of your spaceship. Which really, I got the idea from some of the whistleblower, uh, statements on how they, number one, also from the original arts parts, you can't talk about the stuff without talking about art, Bell, uh, he's on, he's on my list. Yeah. So, uh, back in the 90s, I was a master's degree student in physics at the time working for the Army in a, in a directed energy weapons laboratory. And I heard Linda how talking about the parts that she had received, or that art had received, and that she was investigating, uh, that allegedly came from the Roswell crash. And so I emailed Linda how and said, I'm a scientist with the Army. I have a laboratory. My boss says, okay, I could use the lab at, you know, after work hours. Well, hang on. If we're going to talk about this, let's send it up. So someone calls our balances. I've got this stuff. And he says, if it's real send it to me, and they did, and then art sends it to you. Yes. After I emailed, I said, I'm a scientist for the Army. I'd love to. Right. He said, so art and Linda how I said, okay, we're going to send it to you and you do what you can do. And so they sent me all the information in the lead, a copy of the letter that the guide sent to Art Bell. And so I got the parts, and I started investigating them. They were really interesting. They were layers of, uh, of a magnesium zinc alloy. Uh, between, and between those, there's like one Oreo cookie on top of another, and the, and the double stuff was pure bismuth. And, uh, and it was really thin. Like, uh, I think it was right four microns or something like that. Really, really thin. And they were stacked together and there were tens of layers. And they weren't delaminating. They weren't peeling apart. And, uh, every attempt that I did, and not anybody that I know, and I even know that some folks at the Skunk Works tried to reproduce them, and they could never reproduce the material without them pulling apart. And I know that even if the Skunk Works, they destroyed a million dollar piece of equipment trying to reproduce the parts. And, and so since we never could reproduce the parts, and one tells me somebody spent a lot of money or got really lucky if it was a hoax trying to do it. And then my other thought was okay, it was for something. Well, in the letter it says, if you get it in a million volt static electric field and expose it to certain frequencies that it'll do things. So I built a million volt, uh, static field generator. And, uh, then I, uh, put the materials in there. And, and I found that when I hit it with a particular frequency, I can't remember exactly. Exactly. When I was around 30 to 40 megahertz. I know that's interesting. That number comes up. It is around 30 to 40 megahertz that every single time once it was charged up to a million volts, and I would hit it with that the object would either move directly towards the antenna or directly away from the antenna. And I, and it was repeatable. And is there video of this? There was that I, I, I videoed it all sent to Linda. She's got it. I think it's on her website, actually. Okay. Um, this was in the 90s, man. I would think the military would want to talk to you about this. Well, they never did. Okay. And then, uh, when I got on the UAP task force, I realized that the parts that Tom to long had, uh, were the same parts. The same exact parts, the same exact parts that I sent back to Linda. How when I was done with Tom got arts parts. Yeah. Wow. And, uh, and so his team were looking at it. And there was a guy that was working, uh, so somehow they were, you know, Tom and Jay knew each other through circles. And so Jay was very aware of the research had me connect with them. And I told him what I had seen. And they tried it. And they said they had seen. I think the similar things. And nobody had still been able to reproduce them. And this is 20 years later. Right. So in 20 something years. And see, I never had any funding to look at it. I mean, I just did it on my own spare time after hours in the lab. And, uh, and so Jay and I were going to do more with it at this point. We were supposed to get funding for the UAP task force to look into these things. So my point about arts parts is. I'm not saying they're alien. I don't know what they are. But whoever made them had some purpose for them. Sure. And if it was a hoax, it was a dang expensive or our clever hoax because we haven't been able to reproduce those same materials. In the same way and keep them from following the part. You can't organize bismuth at the micron level. Well, so they were the way we reproduce them was vacuum vapor deposition. But it peeled it peeled off every time. Uh, and so I don't know how this was put together. And it's really interesting to me. There's, uh, there's a sort of a random jaggedness to the interface between the bismuth and the metal part. And, uh, how put off and Eric Davis, uh, they suggested that it was some sort of fractal pattern that enabled it. And, uh, so I got to look into it. And if it is a fractal pattern, then perhaps what it's doing is creating. Uh, points where cohesion can actually have where it can stick stickiness, right? Like bander walls between the points that are close to each other. And maybe that's what's helping hold it together. But that's just a hypothesis. And again, there's not been any money really spent to reproduce these things or reverse engineer them. Uh, the same problem happened with the cone of blue thing, right? Uh, that, you know, that's where, uh, how was supposed to get some parts to work on. And, uh, and got right up to the end. And then some people had it crushed and didn't let didn't give them the parts. That's right. Cone of blue with the cave. You guys want to look that up. How close was that that sandwich technique to what you found in the ranch? So when I first saw the metal flakes that had the aluminum iron coated with the Tolerium and Eropium, you said code it. Well, so it's like, uh, the center substrate is a, it's maybe a tenth of a millimeter of aluminum iron alloy. And then on the top, on one side, well, top or bottom, I don't know what's up, but on one side, uh, it was almost pure Tolerium. And on the other side is almost pure Eropium, which is clearly manufactured. But why I don't know. Um, and so that just because it was layered like that is, is the one thing that I thought was interesting, uh, that was similar. It looked like visibly it looked very similar to the arts parts material. With that stuff conduct electricity. Oh, oh, yeah, the aluminum iron mixture. Are you talking about arts parts stuff? No, the stuff you found. Yeah, we conduct. Yeah, uh, and I tell you what the ceramic that we found, it was really interesting because it was, uh, it was paramagnetic, if not superconducting at room temperature. At room temperature. Yeah, we could hold it over a magnet and it would jump away from the magnet. And this is a ceramic like material. And we put it in a night liquid nitrogen bath and it would never cool down. So, and I mean, it continually boiled off at a high rate, the, the night liquid nitrogen. So it's energetic ceramics, uh, it's doing something that's not letting itself cool down. That's all I know. We let it sit for an hour in the liquid nitrogen and had to continually refuel. And the liquid nitrogen was boiling off at a rate faster than standard liquid nitrogen. Well, I don't know what you guys just stand around like, I don't know. I don't know what it's exactly what we're doing. I don't know what the hell's going on. And I've never seen anything like this. Now, now the really weird thing we need to reproduce this many times before I'll really stand up down and say there's something to it. But I took, uh, we called him Dulley's on rocket city red next because they wouldn't let's say Sharpie on TV. But I took, but I took a Dulley and I put a dot on one side of the ceramic material. And then I put it in a mittler balance and I held a magnet above the thing. And I tested it many times to make sure I was found the range where I wasn't affected in the balance. And, uh, I held a magnet over it and got to wait. Then I just flipped over the material and repeated the experiment. One side was always heavier than the other. - Wow, and then we did that like 20 times, that day we had the materials in the lab, and it was the average over the 20 times was always the one side, was always heavier than the other, and it was the same side, it was always heavier than the other. - I don't know if this is the right term, have you ever heard of flux pinning? - Yes, in fact, that came up. - It did? - That came up in, yes. - You have to explain that. That's crazy, this came up, flux, okay. - So that's basically the Meisner effect, right? - So if you take a superconductor, and you put it, whenever it becomes superconducting, and you typically see this in the videos, they'll pour the liquid nitrogen over them with a little ceramic block, and then it'll start floating. Well, so as soon as it becomes superconducting, it sets itself up interior-wise, that it is mapping out the magnetic field it's exposed to, currently. Now, if you change that magnetic field, the superconductor had already pinned that flux inside the superconductor in a way that it will always oppose any changes so that the magnetic field stays the same inside the superconductor. So that's why if you touch it, it'll spin itself back to the orientation where the magnetic field was. That's why you can thump 'em there and sit there and spin forever 'cause it's trying to get itself back to where the magnetic field was when it first became a superconductor. - Yep. - And so we thought about this, well, is it possible that this is room temperature Meisner effect that we're seeing happen? And, but we were hoping that we would see other superconducting properties, and we haven't seen, but what we do see is something that it's paramagnetic like, which is light, superconducting like, it's like there's almost superconducting and it's kind of what we call paramagnetic. And so this is one of the most baffling that, so this is another one of the things we can't explain is going to ask you and walk a range. - Let's say quick break, when we come back, I wanna know what can shut off a drone at 3,000 feet. - Oh, yeah, absolutely. - So seven years of instruments have sketched out something on that property where GPS doesn't work and what is going on with the drones? What can shut off a drone at exactly the same height? - That's really bizarre and how? Because the drone comms are encrypted. And so if you're talking about the experiment that we actually just showed this past week, I think. - Yes, it's 3271. - Yeah, so we got up to just over 3,000 feet. We, it's really interesting, over the years, we've flown weather balloons, helicopters, rockets, drones, all sorts of things. Drones can't go higher than four feet without special permit, but we've flown all the way up to 10,000 feet above sea level, a little bit higher, maybe 11,000, because we've measured anomalies there with instruments and the weather balloon, we launched there, went up to 70,000 feet. And we measured stuff all the way up through to about 20,000 feet. There were high electromagnetic fields that were surging on a perfectly clear day, and the instruments acted like they had gone through an electrical storm. - And it's happening up in the atmosphere? - All the way from the surface upwards in that one spot over the property. And what's really weird is we've launched balloons before and air currents will take them and they'll go miles and miles and miles, but we had one day where we launched the balloon there and it went straight up and came straight down and landed on the property. - That shouldn't happen. - No, it shouldn't happen. That can't happen, are you kidding? I've done a lot of how to balloon launches with instruments on them, and I find them in the next state, you know, I don't find, if you find them at all, right? - Yeah. - And so we flew one that had a tracker on it, and when it got to 5,000 feet, it vanished. The tracker quit working, the balloon went on, but we literally said they're watching it, and then none of us could see it anymore. It had ever show up, nobody ever found it. Nobody ever found it. And we never found the, and it had a tracker on it, a tracker just went away. And so we hit a few years back, we had it anomaly where rockets kept messing up around 30 feet above the launch pad in this one spot, 30 feet, around 30 feet. And in fact, we had a big one, we spent a lot of money on building it, had a lot of instruments in it, and at 31 feet it exploded. And so we were doing an experiment with a high-speed camera and a rocket in the same spot, and there was a flash of light, and then the rocket exploded at 31 feet, and then in the high-speed infrared camera, there was an appearance of an object overhead that was tens of meters across it. When it looked like Galactus's helmet in the video, I mean, it has like a bike, it had a thing like this, but then we found it in another camera that was 90 degrees off, so it was orthogonal, and it looked exactly the same. So it suggests geometric symmetry, like a sombrero. Yeah, right. That's kind of what I'm thinking, it's like a sombrero. So it wasn't exactly opposed, it was an angle, so it had to be. It had to be symmetric, or if you look at something that's in another dimension, it always will look the same. Right, it's a hypercute. Yeah, so that was the Tessaract, right? Our Tessaract. So it was one of those things that made, you know, I said for fun, but what we have, the data, what we have, was when we hit this thing at 31 feet, the rocket exploded, there was a flash of light, and the object that we captured, whatever it was, we couldn't see with the naked eye, but in the infrared, it was setting there over our heads at 31 feet. We referred to it as the blob, because it looks kind of like a blob. It's like, "Hey, this is weird, we found a Navajo sand painting that looks just like what we saw in the infrared." Which I find really odd, right? Yeah. What a coincidence. But anyway, so we've continually seen anomalies, large energetic anomalies in this location, and so we put a terrestrial laser scanner, LiDAR system there, to map out and see if we can see anything in there, and what came back, and has been repeated 20, 30 different times now, with multiple instruments, that there is some sort of bubble that's 2,000 feet in radius that is expanded over the property. It shows up every time in these terrestrial laser scans, and we've used more than one instrument, and more than one brand of instrument. And it shows up. And we've measured, now with the drones flying through this area where the bubble is, their five gigahertz communication signal is completely cut off while they're in 120 foot thickness region where we estimate the bubble is, according to the LiDAR. So we were like, well, let's go up to the top of it, the 2,000 foot spot. This is what we're trying to get to. And also when the balloon had gone up, and we got measurements, there was a big hit on electromagnetic energy at 3,200 feet. So we were like, well, maybe there's something at 3,200 feet, and then there was another one at 5,000. Same frequency. Well, with the balloon, it was broad spectrum instrument. It was a bucket. So it was the drones that could told us the five gigahertz thing. Because they have two calm frequencies that are encrypted, ones around 5 gigahertz, 5.7 gigahertz, and ones at like 2.45 or something. Right. And it's interesting. But it's strange that we've got interference at all these frequencies that we use. Yes, I know. It sounds sort of the design, doesn't it? It does. So we were hoping to get the drones up to 5,000 feet, because a lot of people think we're just doing a drone light show because these guys are like super light show guys, the sky elements, they did the Wolverine and Deadpool thing at Comic Con, you know? I think they're in Guinness. Yes, the most drones at one time. Yeah, right. Well, but what people don't understand to do those shows, they have the most precise navigation systems on those drones in sequence than any other system on the planet, right? I don't know how they do it. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah. And there's something like 61 or something like that instruments on each one of these little drones. They're measuring everything from magnetic fields to electric fields to inertia changes to gravitational, they're measuring everything. So they actually are exquisite scientific instruments. The lights is just a benefit, right? And you can see it visually and track them with cameras as well. So we designed an experiment, we were going to take a bunch of them, like a hundred of them, all whipped 5,000 feet and nobody had ever flown a swarm that high. They had to get special FCC and FAA waivers to do it. And so they were doing the test flights first with just four of them. And they got four of them up to, and it's really interesting because while this experiment was going on, I had COVID and so I had to stay in my, in my Jeep with instruments and stay a long way away and just watch it from a distance and just kind of be a spotter, right? And I felt like crap, but so as the drones were going up, everything looked normal and they were chasing them with one of those drones they race with. They called them a FPV, first person viewer drone. And so it was going around like 50 mile an hour or zipping around them as it going up. And it gets to a point where something just literally pushed the FPV drone away. And the guy said, I've never seen anything like that. And we've got that captured on what you see it here. And then suddenly boom, it's just like something reached out and grabbed it and just slung it. And it's like, you know, superhero kind of looking stuff. Yeah. And then the drones go a few more feet up and you see the lights start blinking. And then they do a quick jump to the southwest and then something just turned them off and they fell straight down. And they fell from 3,200, I think it was 3,217 or something like that. 3,200 feet give or take and they fall all the way down straight crash straight down. And I mean, I'm in the field, you know, just outside. inside the bubble of 2,000 feet away, you know, guys, take cover. They're like, oh, Ronald, what the hell is going on? Is everybody okay? Somebody say something. And I know they're ducking under cars and stuff. They're having time talking to me on radio. But, and so they look through the software. And something encoded into the drones while they were flying a subroutine that was a kill command. - No way. - And this wasn't like interference. - No, something literally told them to turn themselves off. But, but here's the thing, it didn't tell them to turn them off. It was a kill command. It literally said the subroutine was literally the guys said, we've never seen it. We didn't code this. We don't know what it is. It's a kill command. I said, what do you mean kill command? It says, it means to kill it, it says it's going to crash itself into the ground as fast as it can from 3,000 feet. And so they repeated with the new set of drones. And when they got to that, the exact same thing happened again. Subroutine. - Yep. And so this is where they said, okay, we're not doing this again tonight. - We're not doing this expensive. - Yeah. - Well those drones are like, they told us, 'cause three years before we had what we called a drone to get in. And so they were going to fly 1,000 drones. 600 of them at the triangle and 400 in the east field. So one's inside the bubble, one's outside the bubble. We didn't know about the bubble yet. But we had an anomaly out there and an anomaly in here. And we wanted to see if they were connected. And so the idea was, we thought the anomalies were localized. We were going to create a cylinder on each end and surround the cylinder, to surround the spot where the anomaly is with the cylinder of them. And then fire a rocket up through the middle. So if someone's going to get out of the way, you'll see the drones move. That's a great idea. That was our experiment plan. And we were doing that simultaneously on each end. Well, the drones, they practiced off property and they were accurate to within a microsecond, okay? They bring them on property. And they could only get of the 600 that was launched fine the day before or somewhere else. They could only get 400 of them to go up. And when the 400 got up, they launched seven seconds later than they were supposed to, then Ires went up. Ires got up and on my end, they created the cylinder and started going around the anomaly. And then on the other end is theirs get up to, they got to about 30 something feet. And then they started going crazy and they jumped to 70 something feet and started falling out of sky. But they weren't just falling. They were physically chasing people. What? One of the guys literally took his leather jacket off and was beating them off of camera guys. And on my end, we hear over the radio, it's raining drones down here. Have I get in your F and cars? Let's get in your cars. And on my end, our cylinder formed. But when they got there in the cylinders, 300 feet tall. Now these drones are like a five pound brick, okay? So they're battery. Like all battery, right? So you imagine dropping a five pound battery from 300 feet. If it hits you in the head, you know, you're not walking away from that, no? And so we're out there, the cylinder's up and there's the action camera guy at me and another guy dragging. We're there about to launch the rocket. And suddenly here's third and we turn and look and the camera guy puts his camera light down on the ground and there's one of the drones between us. And we look up and there's another one coming right there. We're like, oh, we crap, everybody. Which scatter, you know? And we get up there and the drones are just, they start chasing us, the cylinders following us. And they even had a fence. So we had a safety procedure. There's something goes wrong. We were to run to the Southwest 'cause the drones were geofenceed off with the GPS. It could not go there. Well, they didn't care about that geofence. They kept chasing us and dropping drones at us like bombs. And that continued for a good five, ten minutes, something like that for all the drones. Finally got on the ground and they lost, we added up, they lost something like a million dollars in that experiment. And the company was like, they do, you know, one every day, somewhere in the world. And they're making so much money. I think it was, to them, they just kind of smiled. And said, well, we learned something. And we're like, yeah, you learned you lost a million dollars from the drones. But so they ruggedized them for the next year and so on. And they keep bringing them back better ones. But something still keeps affecting them. And this was, you know, three generations from Drone and getting, and these drones still, when they got to this spot, at 4,000 feet, something managed to get inside them, change the code and force them to kill themselves. Could they do another iteration to prevent the code change? Well, I'll have to say stay tuned on that. Something tells me it doesn't matter what they do. I, you know, it's so funny to me that there were, of course, the skeptics and things in the toxic verse out there started saying, well, you guys could just program the drones to do all that. And like, yeah, for a million dollars, if you seen what a documentary series budget actually is, it's not that. No, it's not for one episode. That's basically our entire engineering budget for a whole season. So it sounds like there's something there that is sentient? That doesn't want, I mean. Well, so the big low guys left us with a narrative. In fact, I think it was Colonel Alexander that actually made up the words, or it could have been a killer, but I've heard Alexander say it of a pre-cognitive sentient intelligence. Yeah, that's his right. And that's what they said they think the ranch is. I don't know, but pre-cognitive, that means it can, it knows what we're gonna do ahead of time. Well, I asked him, does that mean that the future is written and I can see it, or does it kind of detect your intent? And he's like, we don't know. We believe, and this is purely from belief with our personal experiences. Anytime we've done something on the fly, we've surprised whatever it is. That's interesting. Because we found the blob of that first rocket night where we hit whatever it was over the triangle and we saw it in the cameras, we were supposed to do a different experiment and something fell through at the last minute and we didn't have anything to do, but we had to crew and we're like, well, we gotta do something. And I said, well, we should go to the, we got this high speed camera guy. Let's just take it out to the triangle and shoot a bunch of rockets and just see if anything happens. And we did and something happened. And that was like literally we thought of it in like 10 minutes when set up and start doing it. And we've seemed to maybe sneak up on whatever it is when we do things like that. And so we believe when we add an intent to something we're about to do, that's when we get a response from the property. It either hides itself or makes itself visible for us to notice. If it wants us to do something, don't it? I know it sounds stupid, crazy, whatever. I remember laughing at the guys the first day I met them when they said the ranch will respond to me. They said it responds to different people in different ways. And I laughed and said it's just a piece of property. It's dirt, how's it going to respond? - Every skeptic comes back with the same story. Like, something's going on, man, I don't know what it is. - I was as skeptic as they could be when I went out there, man. And I've been out there, this would be my eighth year and I still, I know there's, I'm not to, people say you are a unique experience or whatever they say, no, I'm not an experienceder. I'm a knower. I know that whatever is there is something. I just don't know what the hell it is. - Is there other properties like this around the world? - So, I believe there are. We did a brief foray into some other places to cause we're planning some, maybe some future experiments. Maybe in Dulce, into Mexico. - Oh boy. - That at Secret Mountain. - Yep. - Out at Mount Shasta. - Yep. - These are all the places. - Mount Wilson, perhaps, you know. There are some, there's a place in upstate New York too. And I don't remember exactly what it's called, but we've had a lot of people reporting phenomena back to us from there somewhere it's at wilderness, you know, in upstate New York. - All the native tribes have stories about these places. - Yeah. Well, you know, upstate New York would have been like what the Mojican's probably. - Sure. - Yeah. - So, any of that, but that's an interesting point you bring that up because the aboriginal species of the locale seem to somehow be more entuned or connected to whatever is going on. The Navajo and the Ute really, really are connected. Like, the Navajo don't even like to talk about the place. You know, they'll, even, they'll turn away and look away from it if they, you know, get close to it sometimes. - Yeah, Mount Shasta. The tribes don't go above the tree line because that's the dwelling of the sky people. You don't go there. So, you know, that's, what, how do you, what do you do with stories like that? You know, I had a, I was at work one day. This is before I, this is before I started just working from home as a consultant. I was working for a company called Radiance right after I quit the government. And I got a phone call. And this lady says, this Dr. Taylor said, yeah. And she said, I'm the eldest female of such and such tribe. And I don't want to say what it is 'cause I don't want to get anybody in trouble or whatever. I don't know if you get them in trouble. You know, they didn't give me permission to talk about them. - Fair enough. - So, but she said, and we've been debating on talking to you for a couple of years now and we finally took a vote and decided that we needed to reach out. I said, yeah, you and about a million other people, lady. And she said, no, I really am who I, who I say I'm sorry. This is my name. Go on the internet and look me up and find a phone number to contact me. And then you'll know, that's fair enough. So she hung up and I look up this tribe and I see the elders and there's this lady's name and a phone number for the tribal center or whatever. So I called there and said, hey, this is very sound weird but this lady says, oh, Dr. Taylor's, yeah. She said, hang on, and they transferred me and the lady picked up the phone. It was literally, it was her. And I said, okay, so you got my tension now. - Yep. - And she said, so, they told me, told us that they bring you inside the Mesa all the time, but you refuse to remember it. Oh, it just gave me chills. And I said, what? What is she talking about? And I said, who is they? She said, you know who they are. I said, no. I don't know. I don't have any idea what you're talking about, lady. And she said, they told us that they are bringing you in to show you what's going on at the property at Skinwalker Ranch and that you refuse to remember it. And I said, what? You said, I can't remember it. She said, no. They said you refused to remember it. And we wanted you to know. We felt like you needed to know this. And I was like, OK, who are they? She said, the sky people. No. And so then I like, OK, thank you, ma'am. Thanks. I'll keep that under advisement. What do you do with something like that? I don't know. Well, so this is all, this is linked to something that we just talked about. So while I was working at this same place within days of this phone call, Jay and I had hooked up with some people who had a private black ops kind of group that if we found something that was down somewhere, they were going to try to get to it before somebody else could. And so they had hired this remote viewer that she's supposed to be like the remote viewer presently. And you know, Paul Smith verified it. So I'm like, OK, Paul says she's real. She's real. And so she called me and she said, Dr. Taylor, are you? Do you realize that they've taken you and you don't know it? Now, I'm not getting into this abduction stuff again. And she's after the call with the yeah, OK, and she said, and I said, what are you talking about? She said, oh, it was years ago. She said, I can see it. They're showing me now. I'm like, Oh, you're talking to them now. And she said, yes. And you know, this is one of those things, but remote viewing is real. And I understand the physics, the science of that that we've measured it. We know it's real from statistical variation and stuff, but the story I want you to explain how that works. But when you take it this far, you know, you're saying it works, but you don't want any part of it? No, no, no, no, no. When you take it to the point where I'm physically telepathically talking to aliens right now, that's where I'm like, well, how do you prove that? And I can't, you know, it comes down to campfire stores. And that's one of the things I always try to avoid. Physicists don't like unfalsifiable. Yeah, yeah. It's not proper falsifiable. So what do you do? And she says, yeah, they said you were young. I'm going to guess 15, 16 is what I'm seeing in the images. And you were in the desert. And they took you and you didn't remember it. I said, lady, I live in Alabama, everything's green as far as I can see. And so I didn't think anything else further about it. And then we sent a team to a place in Arizona called Secret Mountain. And there's some natives there kept saying that they had seen UFO's flying into the mountain pretty much like it's skin walker ranch. And Shasta. And they go there and they, and I'm looking at what some of the footage that they're showing in some of the film or a video and I'm saying, that looks familiar to me. Where is this? Where did you guys stay? And they say, we stayed in a little town. There's one little town there. It's called Holbrook, Arizona. And I went Holbrook, Arizona. When I was 16, no way, my brother was in the Air Force and was stationed in Holbrook, Arizona. And I went and stayed two weeks in Arizona with my brother and his apartment. He stayed at, if you won't call it, that was like a little quadplex that four town homes of one that were all Air Force guys living in, up on top of a big sand dune effectively. And the base was two trailers and two radars and a chain link fence. And there was like, I think a high school and that was it. There may have been a 7-Eleven or something there. And I stayed there for two weeks. And all I did was either go and play when they did PT. They played softball every day. I would go play softball with them, hang out with my brother, otherwise I'd sit and watch TV during the day or read books. And I see only time I'd ever been to a desert before I went to Utah. But I was 16 when I went there, just like she said. Just like the lady said. And the fact that those stories came to me at almost within a week of each other, that close. Yes. And all of this was, it was, it's one of those things that shakes you. And you're like, I don't believe it. But at the same time, I'm like, what, how did she guess that? Yeah. How would she guess that? That's the thing. And because I hadn't thought about that and you had to just wipe it out of my mind, but I didn't even really thought about it much. And you don't remember anything. I don't remember. Of course not. I don't remember anything. And at the ranch, now weird crap happens all the time, but I have crazy, I had night terrors for the first three years I was there. Never slept at all. At the ranch? Yeah. At the ranch. It was terrible. So I'd wake up screaming. And it was, it was wild. But I think my brain got numb to it after three or four years. And I still have them occasionally when there, but mostly I've gotten to where I can kind of sleep there. So it's unusual. I think it has to do with the microwaves that we keep measuring. I think it's messing up my rimsleep. But you said that you hooked up EEG's to some folks that saw some weird activity in the brain, right? Yes. We've done that many times. And in fact, we've seen what is typical fight or flight response is happening. That's obvious when you see it. But we've seen other types of influences on the brain waves that you would be like in a sensory deprivation tank instead when you're not. And so I find that really interesting. And I wonder about that because we've had people as close as you and I, where somebody's pointing at something. And so it's right there. Don't you see it? And others are like, man, we're not seeing it. Or we've had somebody, I was literally sitting at a table about just a little bigger than this. There's about six or eight of us around the table and a guy sitting between me and one of the other guys just collapsed in the seizures. And we took the emergency room and he had looked like it. They said looked like it had been exposed to microwaves. And he didn't, his memory was basically wiped of about four hours of the day. And he had like his eye, he swelled up and was like bloodshot. We've had to happen to cows. What happened to your finger? Yeah. So that happened right after, that's funny, I'd always told the guys the first few weeks I was out there that I thought they were all batshit crazy. And we were at home's dead too. And we were looking around, we got a ground pin, we got a guy pushing one of those lawnmower looking, ground pin, and trading radars around. And the one scientist is over there with him. And I'm over behind home's dead too. There's this sister behind us, basically a water tank that they used to make in the houses. So I'm like, well, there could be radon gas or something down in there. I want to check it. I'm going to pull this lid back and hold my gamma rate detector down there. And so I pulled on things pretty heavy and the camera guy was standing right over me looking down as I was holding my gamma rate detector over the hole. And I was sitting in such a way, like one knee on the ground and one hand on one knee. And suddenly my gamma rate detector goes off. Nobody, there's people around me, but as soon as my gamma rate detector went off, all the cameras and all the sound equipment and all the cell phones turned themselves off. Now one Android phone was of all the crew was working and the director of photography was sharp enough. He grabbed it, started filming with that and told everybody else to be working on the day in cameras. So they went down and wouldn't come back up? They would not come back up, like something fried them. They would burn out all the batteries and immediately went dead. And so they're changing batteries, swapping out units, the little doohickeys that have the transmitters on there. They're changing all those things out and in frantic, you know, trying to get the cameras up and running. And while the director of photography is filming with the one Android that was working. And so I'm sitting here looking at my gamma rate detector and the dose rate is pretty high. And I'm doing numbers in my head. And I'm thinking, it's like that scene in Fat Man Little Boy where John Q's X characters calculating that he's about to die. That's what I'm doing in my head. And one of the other physicists coming over says, he looks at it and says, that's a pretty big dose, man. That's a big dose. And I'm like, God, that's a bigger dose than an angle kill me, but it ain't a good dose. So I need to, then they got about this time. So how about how many X-rays worth of, well, I'll get to that. Okay. Okay. So we're sitting here on the, they've got cameras on tailgate of the truck, they're trying to figure them out and they get one working and camera guys got one up finally. And so the director starts asking me questions, he's like, what's going on? What's happening? He said, well, here's what we're going to do. I want you to get everybody here and get them back to the command center. I'm going to go, I'm going to take all my clothes off outside of my trailer. And then I'm going to take the shower. And while I'm doing that, I want you to get someone and go to the beer store and come back with a case of beer. And they start laughing. And I said, no, I'm serious. I got to start urinating as soon as possible. This is standard. My buddy, mine was a sub dude, actually, his handle is sub dude, and we've talked about, I've written a bunch of science fiction stories where people get exposed or whatever. And I've walked through what the protocol is that the Navy uses on the subs. Yep. And that's the first thing they have them do is sit down and start drinking diuretics. Right? And I'm like, well, you know, they could go the pharmacy and get a diuretic. What fun is that? Right. Of course, light. Yeah. That's it. And I said, so I'm gonna set out and then I'm gonna start drinking that because I've got to start, you know, peeing as soon as possible. And he said, well, what about iodine? So it was too late for that. I already been exposed, right? I needed that beforehand. And so, and they're like, now you're being serious now. I said, yes, I'm being serious. And so we go back and the guy, one of the other physicists that was there that year, he also had a medical physics degree. And he ran chemotherapy and radiation therapy treatments at a hospital. And he and I were sitting there and doing numbers. And I've got my doctor, my general practitioner on my phone texting him. And he's texting it on collegeist. And we're all doing math in there over the phone, in our heads and everything. And he says, dude, you just had your lifetime of cat scans in about 30 seconds. And, and it wasn't, and it was really weird. Is everybody around me? None of them, there, no dose rate, no gamma rate detectors went off just mine. And they were as close, one guy was as close as me and you are now from the whole, don't know where, don't know where it came from. But, but going back out that we had a Navy team come in the next day contractor coming next day and checking there was nothing anywhere. And so after overnight, I drink all the beer. I get up next morning. And when I yearnate, it's the color of this laptop right here. It's like, it's like, it's like black coffee. Oh, no, and I text my, my GP again. And he says, uh, that's probably dead sales that you're, that you're passing. You didn't tell your wife any of that. Oh, no. And then, uh, so then I start getting flu-like symptoms, which is all class exemptions, right? And that lasted for a good 36 hours. And I was like, well, I'm going to go home. It's been the weekend at home and try to recuperate and see how I feel. And I get to Salt Lake City airport. And I'm sitting there in an order of a beer and chicken wings at, uh, at whatever restaurant it was. And the waiter looks at me, says, did you get a fight? Or said, and I said, what are you talking about? And he said, well, what's that on your head? I'm like, what's on my head? And, and I noted, and I got a thing about, I'd been scratching my knee and my top of my foot was burning. And then I looked at my hand and there was a burn mark on my hand right here. And so I get my phone. I turn around and look and I had a big burn mark right here. And so the way I was sitting looking over that you could draw straight line through my head, through my hand, through my knee, and through my foot to where those burn marks were. And, and when I drew the line upwards, it would have gone right through the camera guy that was looking over my shoulder. This is like a death ray. That's that don't exist. That does not exist. So I got better, you know, everything was fine. And I had various tests done to make sure there's not any like leukemia markers or anything, you know, was it a radiation bird? Well, according to two different doctors, it appeared to be effects of radiation exposure. One of the doctors said he didn't know what the hell it was. And then when my finger started hurting, it's group started expanding like this, growing outward. And I'm like, what in the crap is that? I'm too old for author. I mean, too young for arthritis. And I don't know what's going on. And so I called kit green and he said, yep, that sounds like classical radiation exposure. Here's what I want you to do. He hooked me up with an orthopedist surgeon. They went in and x-rayed it and everything. They set me up for surgery. And so they opened that up and and and there was there were two osteophytes. There's like basically bone growth growing out. And from the x-ray, I could calculate their sizes. And they were the exact right size to be microwave antennas. Is that not crazy? It's crazy. That is crazy. Well, they shaved them off and then sewed me back up and they sent out the pieces off for analysis. There was no trace of any pathogen. At all, no pathogen. And so kit said that's typical of radiation exposure. So that that that that's not a virus or arthritis or anything else that could cause that no bacterial infection. And if it's and it comes back pathogen clear, then it's most likely that it was radiation exposure. And so that was that fun adventure. And and what it was, who knows, I don't know, but but so when I came out of the way to going back to when I walk back out of the from behind there and was sitting on that tailgate, my friend dragon and the other guys come down and they look at me, see what's going on, dude? And I looked at and said, well, guess I'm finally batshit crazy. And that's why I really that day I really started understanding that this was not made up stuff. It's something to this property. And but you keep going back. Well, so there's a reason I keep going back. I hope to someday dig out of the ranch, a green lantern ring. But seriously, what if there's something there? What if you know, I firmly believe that fortune favors the bold and and the fortune might be to learn something that we don't know. And I've already learned a lot of things made myself get so much better at physics and engineering just from being out there. Sure. But what if we pull something out of the mesa that is, you know, not of this world or or maybe it's an ancient artifact from an ancient civilization or who knows what, but what if there's something there? What if it's even some new mother nature phenomena that we've never seen before. Either way, it would be worth it. It's it's worth uncovering whatever that is. I'm glad you're out there. I wouldn't go. You and Jay are in a band called Hitchhiker. Oh, yeah. Hitchhiker effect. Have you experienced this hacker effect? Yes, I have and I have have documentation of it. Jay Jay has experienced it a lot, but his is not worse than mine, but what happened. I'll let him talk about that. I mean, for me, so the really weird thing is pretty grow. It's funny. I had some debunkers try to I don't know. This is part I think why they think I believe in paranormal, but I'm not saying nothing. Anything's paranormal. So we have laying hands, chickens at my house. I've got, you know, 17 acres in Alabama. It's a middle of wilderness. It's, you know, green Alabama. The beautiful, right? And so at the time I had a coop that I had rigged an automatic door with a computer to run it and it had a sensor on it that 30 minutes after sun up, it would open and 30 minutes after sun down, it would close to keep, you know, records and foxes out of the, now the in house. And it ran on basically like a little Arduino board. I'm sure there's people out the makers out there know what exactly I'm talking about. And it had an actuator that would just open and close the list just a little metal aluminum plate door. And it had an electrical eye that went across the door. So if there was a chicken standing in it, it would shut it off. Right. And the door actually went, right, it literally takes a minute for the thing to close. Right. Right. So there's no way someone's going to stand there and you'll get caught in it. So I'm at work and my wife calls me and says, hey, there's a hen that's caught in the door. Could you come home and say she didn't want to deal with it. You know, so I went home and there's basically a teened this poor chicken. And I'm like, why the hell could that happen? She was dead. It was, it was cutting half. Yeah. I, it's just so weird of a nitpick. I said, I said something like this at a con. It's cutting half one of the idiot. You know, Twitter versus people, you know, so well, he's lying about that because it didn't, you can look at the clearly look at the picture and his head still there. Well, the guillotine is close, the doors closed and the head's hanging on this side and the other part of the body is on the other side. I mean, that's how toxic though the people are out there about this stuff. Right. But people are warriors. We don't know. Right. Keep board wore exactly. Right. They got Cheeto stains on their fingers. Yeah. So anyway, um, did that motor have enough torque to do that. Yeah. It had enough torque. Oh, it could. It could. It could. It could. But the chicken would have to stay there. Right. It's not going to stay there. So, um, so I get the board and I look at it and it's got all the data recorded and it happened at exactly. It was, it was two. It was one, thirty, three Alabama time. Right. And if I remember the time, right. It could, it could, could be remember, but it was around that, right. And, um, and so I look at what happened and it looked like something overloaded. The battery, it got supercharged and then the, the eye was triggered for safety and it didn't shut off the thing and it burned out the main computer drive. And so it's like something EMP, the chicken house. And, and, and convinced the chicken at one, uh, 33 in the morning, would it supposed to be closed? Well, would it supposed to be closed, right? So it opened it then closed it. Yeah. But again, if you ever, if you've ever had chickens, once they get on a roost, they don't move. That could be a snake killing them. Right. They're going to set there until the sun comes up. Mm-hmm. So something made this chicken get up in the middle of the night and go, let the door open, go stand in the doorway and then let the doorway kill it. Don't eat that chicken. Yeah. Well, I don't, well, yeah, I didn't, but, uh, so I'm like, I, so I called the Eric Bard. The principal investigator at the ranch. And I said, Eric, did anything happen last night at the ranch said, I don't know, man, I was, I was off with a, on a date with my wife. And I was driving back from Varnell, which is like 40 minute 30 minute drive or something to the ranch I was driving back in that damn Jeep that we have out there It just air everything on the dashboard lit up and every instrument in it blew up and I was stranded on side of the road What time and that's exactly what the next question was and he said and he said it was a 12 30 something Oh, no and they're in their own mountain time, which is exactly the same time So there were simultaneous events that happened that fry electromagnetic MP type effect that fried his Jeep and Fried my chicken coop and I noticed that the Wi-Fi in the house it also reset itself at that time. It did? Yeah, when I went back and looked through the logs. So there was an EMP. So that's type of fact That's two and five megahertz. Yeah, that's right And so and powerful enough that it blew out my Arduino board, right and and cause yeah and messed with a chicken What did they do to the chicken? I don't understand that one at all So that is one of the strangest weirdest things that happened. I can't explain it I'd had chickens for before that and after that never never seen anything like that I've had other events very similar like that that things just keep blowing up Like that likely to be in fried or whatever. So I've safeguarded everything. I hope not who would now I've said it to probably happen since I get home when you know it happened But that kind of stuff happens a lot Do you think that it doesn't want you there or is it just mischief? You know the The previous owners of the property the farmers that live there said they believe it was some kind of trickster. Yeah, right To what end? Yeah You know, but I've always said that we may never understand alien motivations because it's just that alien Mm-hmm, and we may never would we might be invaded and never know why right and Whatever's going on here could have some motivation that doesn't make any sense to us. That's true It could be AI motivation. We may never understand what AI's motivation is right Hey, I've got a teenager. I don't know what his motivations are, right? So it's it's one of those things that What but why right and that's one of the reasons that I keep going back is I do fear that could I be bringing it back with me a Lot of people have had some detrimental things that have been there and they'll never get anywhere near the place again Well, Colonel Alexander said his wife was not pleased. Yeah, they're we well we had one guy like I said that He told us flat out and he was actually one of the Nimmitz group guys that we had it to visit us Yeah, and he came out and he was affected so much that he told us he would never ever come back again Did he say what happened to him? We watch it. We we got it. He started having seizures on the ground. Oh my god We went and put him in a fair day cage and it helped a little bit But we eventually evacuated him and seemed to emergency room It's not funny. No, it's not it's just that whoa. It's it's it's not funny how high it's funny, right? Yes It's it's unbelievable. It's what it is. That's why I tell you That's why I think people I can understand people think we're making it up because it's bizarre I haven't watched the show because I thought y'all are making it up. Yeah, so we're not there's not a single thing We're making everything is as we're seeing it now like I said we may get some things wrong and we always come back Oh, well, we thought this was something but it was just a bug or it was a you know snow goose or whatever but We we always are honest about those things and and that's the the thing that I won't you know make clear is If we find something this is disclosure man unless somebody comes and shuts us down in a way that we can't get it out it's getting out How far back to the weird stuff go? Well the one So every owner that's been there said something about it, you know They're and like I said there's a petroglyph on the property that's a thousand years old Yeah, that's a warning that evil is it beyond this thing and they even show a portal in the sky. They do. Yeah That's where your balloon went. Maybe that's yeah. Well exactly where they draw it So there's a drawing of the mesa and then there's the star patterns and exactly where this little spot is is right where the balloon disappeared Oh, man, that's interesting that you bring that up. That's a good good analysis. Where did the There remote fewer did she give you any more details when you're 16 where you went what you saw what happened? She said that they just just took me and tried to show me something, but I didn't I wouldn't remember it and You still won't and I still want apparently because I don't what did you believe her? No, okay, I I don't know what to think about me. Why would why would Why is whatever it is that she can do trigger her her brain to to See something fantastic or you know that like that's that like that, right? um I mean, I would understand if if it was just someone that was trying to get like publicity like uh spoon bending a huckster or something yeah, um, and I don't mean it's all spoon benders or hucksters I just mean like some uh, uh, uh, you know a rain a rain con man, you know a rainmaker Just double by the snake snake old salesman, right? Yeah But she's not that because she's not getting paid for that. She she finds like Kidnap children and things like that and works with police. She's also seeing through time. Yeah, and that's she's she's seeing that That she's saying that they were showing her this and uh, and that and that they were telling her where to go to get to send the team to get a UFO and all these kinds of things uh We thought we had one at one point but they kept giving us oh well the rebels there won't let us in the property or that They need a million dollars before they'll do the other whatever and we're like yeah, that sounds right Uh, they sent us video and it looked like uh They'd built some kind of prop, you know, yeah, it was one of those things So we've I've never had anything like that pan out, right? Uh, but Now the remote viewing part. Yeah, you said you could explain the mechanism. Well, I have a hypothesis the uh Think about it like uh Well, for those who aren't familiar with remote viewing it's been used officially since the 70s in the Stargate program How put off Russell targ and those guys did a detailed Scientific evaluation of it and showed that it was statistically better than guessing Pat Price was a miracle Pat Price was apparently the bit him and uh Uh, Joby Monagal were and Engos one were the they were the best right and and McMonagal still Says stuff to Jay Jay talks to him, you know um but But how would something like that work? Well, if you look at how they Do it so we had Paul Smith we've had remote viewers come out to the property and do and they've told us some fantastic amazing things And we've discovered we found exactly what they said right where they said it was gonna be or whatever like what uh, well So Let me give you one example since it can't spoil it okay Uh, and but the thing about us about to say though is that the network doesn't believe that the public believes it So they won't let us they don't want us to air it why they don't believe in remote viewing the network for some reason doesn't Doesn't like remote viewing. I don't think Okay, but to me it's yeah, I didn't mind it. It's what I thought that's what I keep telling them they said well And then they also don't I don't think they I don't think they grasp it or get it or something You know and I've tried to explain it, but it is a card concept for a lot of people to accept because it seems like magic Well the way it works so We thought we're gonna trip Paul Smith up We took the date that I was exposed to radiation And wrote it down and put it in an envelope put a serial number on that envelope Put the envelope in a drawer and then told Paul the serial number Then he took that serial number and gave it through a friend without telling him where it came from to two of his students That he said where his prized students Different different states, you know when I think was New York and when was out midwest somewhere and they both came back with drawings and Paul did a drawing himself And in when the drawing that they drew was a Feynman diagram For pair production of an electron positron collision What kid you not all right, so you say well, what does that mean? Well, so after I was exposed to radiation We had this Navy contractor team come out and they put a Radiation spectrum analyzer in that exact spot where I was exposed to radiation. They found a spectrum Of the radiation I was exposed to and there was a peak That occurred over a week The most number of hits they got was at 511 kev 511 kev is the Gamma ray that's created when an electron anti electron or positron collide with each other and they create 511 kev gamma rays. That's what they found. That's the annihilation That's the annihilation number that's that's what they found there behind That why where do they where do they squirted the positron electron come from right and where did why have we got a pair Paranalylation Gamma rays, you know, it's what I'm talking about here is you know how in Star Trek they use the matter any matter chamber to create the war Energy well, we got a matter any matter collision happening on the property at skin walker inch for no dang reason well But these remote viewers drew the date that we told them and the in the GPS coordinates and all they saw was a serial number They didn't know anything where it came from and know anybody But they drew the Feynman diagram for electron positron collision and the gamma rays. There's no way they do about it Doesn't matter. - No way. - No, well, one of my asking, one of them was an art major. - Right. - And one of them was like a data processor or something. But they were taking remote viewing school from Paul. - When you saw that diagram, did you know what it was? - As soon as I saw it, I looked at it, I said, that's a Feynman diagram. And then the other thing I said, he turned it around, you're right, that is a Feynman diagram. And we're like, what the hell? And when I saw that, I was like, you're not gonna convince me anymore that remote viewing is made up to this magic or whatever, it's a real phenomenon. Now, what is it and how's it work? Well, what did he do? He took a piece of data and we gave it an address. And it stored away on the memory stack somewhere. And then we gave the memory stack location to these people. And all they did was they know how to look at the memory stack and read what's stored there. - That's a great way to describe it. And that is another piece of simulation hypothesis or some sort of mechanism that the universe has created through software or a matrix-like environment that would suggest that these people have understood, they now understand how to read certain locations in the memory stack. - I hadn't considered that, but that makes a lot of sense. They can see the code. - Yeah. - They can access the memory. - And you know where, and I also, that also explains quantum entanglement. Quantum entanglement is nothing more than the inventory. So think about Minecraft Steve, right? He mines a diamond over here at position XYZ and T, time one. He picks the diamond up, he plops it into his inventory. It's up there in some location and you can pick up the inventory's in this block right here, right? Then he walks around the world map and goes to some other position and time and he reaches up into his inventory and magically plops it down and there it is. Where was it all that time? You say what was in his inventory? What is an inventory? It's the memory. - It's the memory. What I just explained to you is how quantum teleportation works. Quantum teleportation, if you draw a diagram for how Minecraft Steve moves items with his inventory, it looks exactly like quantum teleportation moving information from point A to point B. - Doesn't it move it instantly? - It moves it non-locally. - Non-locally. - You still have to send a classical signal to tell them how to make the measurements and things. And where is the non, that's the big thing. There's nobody understands where the non-local place is. - No. - It's the memory stack. - Right. It's everywhere. - It's everywhere. It's the cost of your record. - That's right. - Where is that stored? - It's everywhere. - Yeah. - It's like the morphic field, morphic resonance. - Right. - So whatever the holographic universe that we are living is, that information universe, whatever it is, that information is stored everywhere, somewhere, somehow. And so these people that have, they didn't find a back door, they just understood how to read what's there. - Doesn't that make the secret work as well? - Absolutely. I think it's all the same thing. I think they're all manifestations of the same concept. - Monroe Institute. - Yep. - All of it. - All of it. - Makes sense to me too. Let's talk about Jay Stratton for a second. He's got a book coming out. - Yeah. - And he recently said that about disclosure, like it's already happened, but there's a lot more coming. Do you know what he means? - Well, Jay and I talk all the time. I mean, we're in a band together, right? - Is he a good guitar player? - Yeah, he's a good guitar player. Jay's pretty. Jay is awesome, and he's an amazing person. - And you sing? - Yeah. I play on some of the songs. I write some of the songs, but I'm the lead vocalist. - All right, so that's Hitchhiker on Spotify this week, right? - Yeah, yeah, man. Spotify, it's Hitchhiker effect. - Hitchhiker effect, okay. So, yeah, Jay was, so for people who don't know who Jay Stratton is, Jay Stratton was the director of the UAP Task Force, but before that, he and Jim Likatsky, Dr. Likatsky, were the two people working for DIA, the Defense Intelligence Agency, at the time. And they had noticed a bunch of people reporting weird things, pilots and so on, and they thought, somebody should be looking into this. And no, I don't think anybody is. And so, they started investigating. And they came up with the idea to create the creates offset, which is like advanced weapons, something systems program. I don't know what all it stands for. And that was actually a contract, it was a proposal. And they let out a call for proposals that any contractors could bid on, that could get security clearances to bid on, to investigate what they were calling range fowlers. At the time, a range fowler would be, they had a test range or a flight doing an experiment, like top gun kind of stuff. And pilots would see something that shouldn't be there, so it's not safe. So, they needed to find out what to work. Was it enemy drones, you know, what was it? And Bigelow Airspace was the only company that bid on the proposal. Now, let me, if you've been in, if you've been in the defense intelligence industry at all, you know that any opportunity that someone in the government releases to give you money, there are 30 companies that go after it. Yep. So, why did nobody respond to this, except for Bigelow Airspace? And I was endorsed by Harry Reid at the time. Yeah, yeah, Harry. So, what happened? LeCatsky and Jay went to Harry Reid and annoy A and there was one other senator that was, he was a Republican, I can't remember his name, but there were three of them. So, somehow they briefed them and they were like, well, we could put in a plus up on the next bill to get you some seed money to get started on this and then you guys can go through the standard channels to start a program, right? And that's, there's nothing odd about the doubt I'm telling you. That's how everything works in government programs. Yep. Every time, every, I mean, it's unusual if it happens a different way. And so, they are set, they're getting going and Bigelow had an interest already in Skinwalker Ranch. He had already bought the place and it had been funding the Neds guys. Was it National Institute for Discovery Science or something like that? To go out, that was Eric Davis and Hal Putoff. To go out there and kill her. To investigate for whatever the weird stuff was. And I think Bigelow was more interested in the, what you would call paranormal things, supernatural or whatever. I think because there was a death or something in his family that he was really affected by and he was maybe trying to reach out to the afterlife or something. He's into a lot of near-death experience and after-death experience. Yeah. So, I think that was what was driving him more. Yes. But then it happened on Skinwalker Ranch that led Bigelow to tell Likatsky and Jay Stratton that if you want to see a nuts and bolts spacecraft, UFO, you need to go to Skinwalker Ranch. And Jay tells that story like, I mean, almost word for word like that, that Bigelow told them, if you want to see a UFO, you got to go to Skinwalker Ranch. And so, Jay said, okay. So, him and Likatsky packed up and went to Skinwalker Ranch. And it was, Jay said it was like the first week he was there. He saw what he calls a dart, triangular shaped craft that flew over the property, I think. But worse, they had an event happen and what we now call Jay's tree, which is, it turns out, is right, I mean, we put post out to mark where the terrestrial laser scanner said this bubble phenomenon is. And Jay's tree is right by where we put post number five. And so, they were walking and as they got closer and closer to this tree, all of them were overcome with fear and couldn't walk any further and turn around and left. And it's right at that. I mean, it's literally right where the terrestrial laser scanner tells us the edge of this bubble is. Is it a hard edger or is it kind of fade off? Well, so what the drones told us this year and an experiment was that it's potentially, at least the five gigahertz, 120 foot thick. Wow, I know, right? And you can hear it on AM if you tune your car to a station because it goes, cut right across the driveway as you come in. You can hear it as you drive the car through the radio crackle. Oh my goodness. And it could be placebo effect, but I, the distance from my trailer to the gate is, and back is a one mile run. And I'll often do a one mile run in a morning or whatever and I run right through the bubble out and then back and I swear I feel sinus pressure every time when I go through there. But it could be purely placebo, right? I'm too front loaded to believe myself on that one or to trust that measurement. So anyway, Jay and Lakatsky continued with the offset program until such time as someone in the Pentagon thought they were looking for Ogabuga stuff. So it's getting Walker Ranch and went and had the program funds killed to have the program killed. They just pulled the funds, which kills a program? Yeah, that's how you do it. And even though Harry Reed and Harry Reed couldn't fight it, apparently, you know, but And that's why I'm convinced, if Bigelow had more, I wouldn't give it to the government either because they paid him half of what they told him he was going to pay him. I'd been giving him the government the finger, basically, right? So but I don't believe that he's got something squirrel, he's got a UFO squirrel away. And when he talked, when we've talked to him, he said, no, I never, we never dug up a UFO and never saw anything like that, you know, I don't think he does. No, I'm convinced he, I'm convinced that he doesn't. And I believe that he and Jay have such a report that he would have told Jay that if he did and now they did have a lot of sightings. And we do have, he did give us that data of like dates and times and, and descriptions of the experiences and so on. And nuts in both sightings? Well, there were things in the sky and you know, nothing landed and came out and said they were to your leader. But not an orb. I think they were mostly like orb like. Yeah. It's interesting that you said a new way because remember his famous speech about there's a cabal with its own air force, its own military that answers to no law. Is that, is he talking about like the Collins group? I wonder. I've, I've thought that too that I, and so where is this air force? Where is this? Where are these people? And how are they hiding it in plain sight from us? Right. It's, to me, that's fascinating, but it sounds a lot like, like a legacy program that, that's not being brought into the open. Well, I did, Ronald Reagan talk about a space force that there's 3,000 people on crap. Remember that weird slip? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And what, what is all the stuff that's in the, I was at the Snowden leaks and the Wikileaks and all that different stuff in the, the British guy, Gary McKinnon. Yeah. Him. You know, the files he found. Yeah. Right. What is all that? Ships and manifests and all that. Yeah. And they weren't Navy ships that existed. So what were they? You know, I love this story, but it's just, how do you launch stuff without anybody knowing? How do you keep that kind of secret? It seems like impossible to me. Well, is it, if, if we launched a rocket right now out of Annenberg, yeah, what would you think about it? Us. Satellite going up. Yeah. If we launched something out of the Cape or out of, out of Texas at the new space ports out there, that's Elon doing something else. Right. No, that's not thinking about it. And for years, they were launching top secret satellites on, you know, Titans and stuff out of Annenberg and about a Kodiak and wherever else. So, you know, why, why, we never thought anything about it? Who knows what they put up? Could there be a shipyard up there? I think, I think now you couldn't hide it as easily because there's enough commercial radar and all that, just like with the whole moon thing, Elon's going whether we want him to or not. Yeah. So, he's going to know if he don't already, right? And I think that's one of the things that we'll find out very soon. I think disclosure has to happen simply because they can't keep up with the technology progression whoever they are. You know, sooner or later, regular civilians are going to be able to go and hike on the moon. Yeah, that's coming soon. That's probably in our lifetime. I think that isn't our lifetimes. So I'm really hopeful that we'll get to the bottom of some of these things, you know. And then Hegelfish will be able to go and see that Apollo 11 did actually happen. And there are remnants of us landing on the moon. And we walked on the moon in 1969 and in the early '70s. You don't like that conspiracy theory. Well, my dad was part of building the thing. That's right. And I've been part of experiments where we bounced lasers off of systems that they left there on the moon. That's true. So, I know. You can see the tracks. There's something there. I mean, do you think there's something weird on the other side? Do you believe Car Wolf's story and all that? Well, I don't know what to think about that. I've heard the airbrushed photos things. And, you know, I'm one of the guys who found one of the three lights in one of the Apollo 13 limb photos that was just released from the government. I'm the guy who found that. I didn't know that. And we don't know what that is. And I went to the limb in Huntsville and crawled all around that thing and looked at, tried to figure out if there's a way that this external camera was seeing blue lights somehow on and the official debunking is, oh, well, the actual film had holes in it. And when they scanned it, blue lights came through the holes. And I'm like, well, I looked at hundreds of canisters and if that were the case, all those films would have like holes in it like that. And this was the only one. And I had AI run it and it found three others in the photo. There are blue lights on the moon. That's a fact. Well, there was a triangle with three blue lights. It was a triangle. It was a black triangle with perfect with the apex lights typical from the stories, right? Could you get a sense of how big it was? No way. I've known how far away it was. Because it's just one camera. I'm trying to match it to what you saw over the ranch. Yeah. No way to tell. You know what it tell, right? But this is in the NASA archives. Anybody can go look for it and find it. I can even tell you what, unless they've changed the archive, I'll tell you exactly which canister it was in. And we presented this to the White House. We presented it to the appropriate committees in Congress, to NASA. NASA said, yes, this is a real IR. It is our image. It is there. We don't know what that is either. And half the people in the room immediately started trying to say, oh, maybe it's meteorites and, you know, coming in perfect, you know, trying, you know, like all this. And then the other half was like, we need to look, we don't know what that is. And so my thoughts are that if I, what I was doing wasn't looking for UFOs. I was working on a project where my, my second PhD was using craters on the moon as dishes for large, very large communications antennas. That's fascinating. Because a meteor crater is already parabolic by physics. Sure. And the lunar regolith is 11% reflective in the microwaves and, and, and RF. And so I was calculating using some of these 50 kilometer wide, you know, craters as antennas. And so I was looking for better pictures to see if I could figure out how smooth it was. So I could calculate the error that would be put into the signal. And, and while I was looking for better pictures in the Apollo and I looked at lunar connoisse orbiter, all that stuff, I found this one picture in there and I was like, what is that? That's not supposed to be there. And I called, I sent it to Jay and Jay looked at it and said, what is that? I don't know. So I started doing analysis on it. And, and I did all sorts of, to make sure number one, it wasn't an airbrushed image. It was a real image. The, the, it did say this was a scan of a photo, which is what it was. It was a 35 millimeter camera on the outside of the limb. And then since NASA has taken all the photos and, and digitize them. Was 17 Edgar Mitchell's mission? Hmm. It sounds like he was right. No, that was, that was Conrad and Schmidt. That's right. So, but who knows, there may be a, I haven't, look, I only look through handfuls. But if I found an anomaly in say 100 out of a million. The odds are there's a lot more anomalies in, in some of those. I bet there are. Yeah. Before we go, um, you wanted to set the, you wanted to set me straight about how, about some of the things I got wrong. Oh. Well, so I just wanted to set, set you straight that, um, none of these guys, uh, Jay, how, Eric Davis, uh, none of us, none of, I mean, of course, we'd be telling you this if we, all right. But, uh, the area, none of, none of the ones that you're talking about in the aviary, except for maybe Kit, because Kit often tells me stuff that he says, well, I can't tell you that. And I'm like, well, why can't you tell, he said, well, because they, well, I can't, he's still worried about, uh, whatever programs he worked on and, and when it, and it's not by nefarious reasons, it's, it's from, don't want to go to prison reasons, right? Uh, but how, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, none of, none of the guys that. Uh, from that particular group, having nefarious bone in their body, uh, most of them are, they're, they're extremely American patriotic, but, uh, they also are extremely want to get to the bottom of whatever all this is. And I don't think other than the threat of prison, right, violate some, some, some India they signed, uh, they would be giving us false information. What's your take on Richard Dodie, who worked with Howland, Benowitz, and all that. So the condor, the fountain, Richard Dodie's been caught in so many misdirections that, uh, I wouldn't trust anything he says, just because of that, because even if he was doing it under orders, right, it's still, you don't know if he's telling you something that was under orders to be alive or not. You don't. And so that, to me, is, uh, that's like trying to study randomness to find more randomness. It's very frustrating. Yeah. So I don't, I, that's just the source that I don't, I don't even consider a source because of, of that purpose, right, because of that reason, um, Lou, I don't, uh, Lou is, um, he has a different approach to the history of, of, uh, all-sap and A-tip, uh, A-tip was never a real program. A-tip was the name they used internally. And Jay often says he wish he'd never put the word thread in there because it made people I think it was an alien thread or something, but it wasn't what he meant. He meant, was it a threat to our airspace? But I've been hard on Lou. Have I been unfair? - No, yeah, I mean, everybody's, we're grownups, right? We're big boys and if you can't take it, you should go cry to your mom or something, right? Whatever it's, this is a toxic universe. - It is. - But, so what, Lou, I can tell you what Lou did, but now it's possible too that Lou was read into some program. I wasn't read into, and there's always a chance, and I don't have anything bad to say about Lou, right? But what I'll tell you that I know is, Lou was, he was doing whatever his day job was and he had a program that had a top secret SCI caveat for it, but the program wasn't active. And so there was nothing under that clearance. And Jay and Lekatsky, after all SAP, needed a place to park classified things, and they knew Lou, and they called Lou, and Lou said, and they said, hey, Lou, could we use your caveat to park our classified stuff in? We'll rewrite class guide and so it'll fit to yours, and we'll just mark it as your classification, and you'll monitor the security for it. And Lou, and they agreed to it. And to my knowledge, that happened with ATIP, right? And it wasn't like a big program, and while, there was no official director, so it gets kind of, in Nomenclature gets thrown around, and Lou was the director of this or that. Now, Lou was the owner of that top secret caveat, and I don't know, I mean, to my knowledge, there was anything other than like videos and things put in it. - Well, big problem, Lou is the Pentagon got kind of cagey and started kind of twisting the narrative a little bit, where they're like, no, he was never the director of anything, which is true. - But Lou's like, - They did the same thing with me. They said, well, he worked with, he was never the official chief scientist. And Jay said, never official, he introduced him to the council of the White House, as the chief scientist of the UAP task force. - But it wasn't on your business card. - Whoa, that's another interesting point. So, you know, Greenwald, does the black vault or whatever? - Yep, John. - So John, interestingly enough, John was a producer, writer on RxCity Rednex. - I didn't know that. - So I know John. And so I've reached out to him a few times when he's gotten things wrong or whatever, or-- - I hate him too. - Yeah, him too, right. And so try to, like, get him straight. But anyway, so John apparently did a FOIA request for any emails from me and Jay to each other. And the government's response is there are no emails between me and Jay. Me and Jay emailed each other for years, right? Which is the most bizarre thing to me. And some of them were like, "Hey, how's it going to be?" I was cold up here today. I hate Maryland, or, you know, something like that. And why would they not at least release one email to show him, just letting him back off or whatever. But instead, all it does is fuel conspiracy thought. - Right. - So they said we don't have the more did they pull that classification? - They said they looked and didn't find any. - I hope he appealed that. - He did, and they basically-- So every day he's been after it since, like, 22. And they've been responding to him constantly. And basically, game of final don't call us anymore response. And he just posted on X a few days ago. I saw it and was like, "Man, Jay, we're looking at," and said, "Well, how did that go?" We couldn't believe it. It was not that we care. I mean, there's nothing in the emails he's gonna get other than just us talking about. We're gonna meet. And, well, if we talked about anything, it was on a tan burg or in a skiff. So, I mean, there's not gonna be anything in the emails you could get. - And you don't finally clear this by saying, "Yeah, we did email." - No, no, you could say that. - Yeah, that's so weird. I don't understand. See, there are those kinds of things that make no sense. - This is why people get angry at a lot of you guys. And it's not really your fault. - It's not my fault. - I didn't tell them not to do it. I mean, I'm saying here right now, I'm telling you, I did email Jay Stratton. And there's nothing illegal about that. There's nothing to be classified about that. I mean, I've emailed you. - Mm-hmm. - It's so, I mean, that is so just bizarre. And so, who is driving that? And why? I think it's just to stir the dead gun pot. - It's just like Richard Dodie. Just to get us fighting and distract us while Lockheed and Raytheon are doing their thing or whatever's going on. - I think you might be right about that. And it might be somebody like a Richard Dodie's in there that it's their day job, just to make thing look, they're playing the trickster god part. - Yep. - Is there anything you want folks to know before we say goodbye? - Well, you know, we just finished, I think the last couple episodes, Skinwalker Ranch season seven are almost done this year. We are headed back out to do season eight. And hopefully, even more crazy stuff will happen and we'll catch it and you'll get to see it. My, I don't know, I've lost count at this time of 26th, 27th, science fiction novel, just hit the book stores. - Oh, it did? - It's called Apogee. It is the sequel to a book called Ballistic, which my publisher said was the best book ever wrote. So, we'll see. But I think you'd find interesting. There's a lot of simulation hypothesis, a lot of the Minecraft Vishnu stuff in it that we've talked about. - I'll check it out. - But. - Hitchhiker effect is on spot. - Hitchhiker's just about to say. And so J Stratton and I, along with Micah Hanks and Micah's brother Caleb Hanks, John Neighberger, Jim Kellgaard and Rob Nelson, we have a band called The Hitchhiker Effect. And we play Hard Rock, a lot of like sort of a Guns and Roses Metallica Flare, with a little bit of a Southern bit thrown in. You know, I'm, I can't, can't leave my Skinner droops, but two singles are on Spotify now. One's called The Tether and one is called A Bet They Rock and Roll. And they're available. So, hope you enjoy it and we're gonna be playing live that Phenomicon in Varnal on whenever Phenomicon is like the second week of September. - Okay, that's worth checking out. - Yeah, so come see us. But more than that, this has been a lot of fun. As always, it's great to speak with someone knowledgeable about all these things and realize that you're not, you're not an army of one and you're not by yourself. And other people have been looking into it as well. And everybody else is just as frustrated and just as interested as we are. And I, and I will tell you that we don't worry about someone coming to a podium and telling you that disclosure has happened, right? Disclosure is happening right now around us all the time. You watch Skinwalker Ranch, you'll see. We're disclosing whatever we can find so that you can see it. - Dr. Travis Taylor, this has been a joy. I hope that you come back and see us. - Any time, man. - Appreciate you. - Yep. - Everybody. - That was Dr. Travis Taylor. He spent part of this conversation angry at a reporter, who wrote the words, his alleged education. So let's start there. He's got two PhDs, three masters. He's working on his third PhD in his 50s on theoretical physics. So, that's all true. He'll also tell you the chief scientist title was never official. And that's not a thing a resume pattern would volunteer. Now, that moon photo was interesting. Travis was looking for creators smooth enough to use as a radio telescope, which is a cool idea in its own, but he found three blue lights in a triangle in a Apollo 17 frame. And the Pentagon put that frame in the UAP files that they just released in May. And they admitted nobody knows what that is. Now, what about the drilling at Skim Walker? That blew my mind as you saw. So, they're like, what did he say? 70 feet, 370, whatever it was. They're drilling into the mesa and they can't get through this metal. They get some shavings of it and it looks manufactured. It's in layers, like arts parts. And then somebody jokes that the only thing missing to make this a meteorite is nickel. But they didn't find any nickel in the metal, but they pulled out a 1964 nickel kind of the same hole. The boring explanation is the true one. Archaeologists very outdated coins for the next crew knows the site's been dug. So, Travis pulled every public aerial photo of the property. 1963 is there. 1969 is there. There's nothing in between. Now, I don't know what's in that mesa. I don't know what's in that hole. It sounds like a spaceship. I don't know, but I want it to be something. Travis's new novel is Apigee. It's equal to Ballistic. And if you're into hard sci-fi like I am, the books are really good. There's a reason they're best sellers. His band with Jay Stratton is Hitchhiker Effect. I haven't heard it yet. I can't vouch for it, but I'm not going to miss it. He says it's like guns and roses meet its Leonard Skinner. I don't know what that sounds like, but I'm down to try it. Everything I mentioned is linked below. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and other you. Harbor Shield. [MUSIC PLAYING] ♪ I love my UFOs and the paranormal bones ♪ ♪ Well, it's mirrors it ♪ ♪ So I'm saying it like I should ♪ ♪ But then another conspiracy theory becomes the truth ♪ ♪ My friends ♪ ♪ And it never ends ♪ ♪ No, it never ends ♪ I feel the crap that I got stuck inside my old home With them chaos, truck, I've been only to a whare Do you stand, look you've regained the moon landing alone On a field set, I wore the shadow people there The rest were aliens, just for the smiling man I'm told, and his name was Cole I can't believe I'm cancer with the fidget And the fish are Thursday nights with day two And when I have to read off to the night All I ever wanted was to just see the truth So the world falls on your feet all through the light The mouth, man, sightings, and the solar storms still come To a god the secret city underground Mysterious numbers, stations, planets are phoned to I can't stop it, and what the dark watchers found In a simulation, don't you worry though The black night set a light and told me so I can't believe I'm cancer with the fidget And the fish are Thursday nights with day two And when I have to read off to the night All I ever wanted was to just see the truth So the world falls on your feet all through the light And when I have to read off to the night All I ever wanted was to just see the truth So the world falls on your feet all through the light And when I have to read off to the night All I ever wanted was to just see the truth And when I have to read off to the night And when I have to read off to the night I have to read off to the night