The Basement: Luigi Vendittelli | S4: The Man Who Reconstructed Area 51's Secret Hangar

Today I'm talking with Luigi Vendetelli, former National Director of Moof on Canada, and the filmmaker behind S4, the Bob Lazar story, now streaming on Amazon Prime Video. Luigi spent five years building the most detailed 3D recreation of Bob Lazar's S4 facility ever put on film, and it started with a cold call to Lazar himself. - And he hits it? - Yep. - He's Bob still taking calls, 'cause I got a great business idea for him to enjoy. - No, no you don't. - Yeah, it's a fitness app, CrossFit 51. Every workout is you running from a black helicopter. - Oh, what, what, what, what? - And you can't even be inside a replica UFO, sleek, modern, and in the bedroom, an optional probe. - That's enough. What Bob found inside the UFO is the part that stays with you. There's a detail about how light behaves in the craft, that Bob couldn't have known, not unless he was actually there. Today, we also get into his friendship with an aerial school witness, his two years training under Dr. David Jacobs, and his grandfather's 1965 sighting that started all of it. This one goes places you don't expect. Let's go down to the basement. Hey, you can watch the Y-Files on Spotify. New video episodes every Monday and Friday, and premium subscribers get fewer ads, which means fewer interruptions when things start getting weird. Luigi Vendetelli, welcome to the basement. - It's such a pleasure. - Thank you for having me. - You're welcome. I'm going to try not to nerd out too much on the 3D stuff, because you know we do that here. - That's great. Let's do it. - So I have to watch a lot of documentaries for what I do, and so they're mostly terrible. So when I got your screener, I didn't know much about you. I certainly knew Bob's story. I threw it on for a couple of minutes to see like what am I in for? And the first thing that grabbed me is the music is unbelievable. It's so good. - A big shout out to James Gray. Who's the composer who did all that? - Real it, yeah. - It has like a Blade Runner Van Gellis vibe, and I loved it. I thought maybe is it just going to be the credits, but it goes through the whole thing. It's so admiss. It's really well done. - He reached out to us from Scotland, and James is a BAFTA award-winning composer, and said, I want to work with you guys. I'm going to do all this for free for now, and we'll figure something out. 'Cause I didn't have a, when he reached out, we were kind of starting to run low on budgets, and I'm like, this is going to cost a lot of money. And he says, no, I have a passion for this. I want to help you. And he said, he sits down with me. I grew up with my father being a big opera and classical music fan, and I wanted the film to have a memorable music to it. And I said, my father made me grow up with Giuseppe Verdi music, and he says, Giuseppe Verdi, perfect, and he knew everything about it. And I said, but I also have, I asked to have like an '80s ominous to it. He says, done. Let me send you some stuff when I come up with it, and he did, and we went, okay, we're working with you. - It's perfect. I mean, when you release the soundtrack, I download it immediately. So that's rolling in my car. - That's great. - That's great. - Let's start with your grandfather's story. He's out in the balcony, what happened? - So in 1965, my mother's father, my grandfather, who was basically like my second father. I spent a lot of time with him when I was in Italy as a kid and Montreal and as a kid. Like we always were together all the time. He would take me around Rome. I know Rome because of him. He was one of the most important people in my life, and he was such an honest, dedicated grandfather. Like, I was like his son, basically. - Parla Vitaleano a casa. - Parla, we always talk about Vitaleano. - Perfecto, perfect. - So, and he was a very big reason why I spoke Italian. He's very strict, actually, when it came to that. He says, you have to learn it perfectly. So I was able to learn Italian and speak it like the people in Rome did. That was important. We stayed in Rome anyway. And so, in 1965, five years after he moved to Montreal with my grandmother, my mom, and her sister, he was outside on a balcony with a friend of him, a friend of his, who was visiting from Italy. His friend's name is Corrado Zenga, who was a famous soccer player in Italy, by the way. And they were outside on the balcony, smoking a cigarette, as most people did in the 1960s. And in front of the apartment building, it was a field. It was like an open field at the time they hadn't built yet. And he's looking out at the horizon and sees this orange light coming in really fast. He says, really, really fast. And so he caught his attention and he, you know, motion to his friend, look at that. And so his friends turned around and they said, the time it took them to kind of stabilize themselves to, you know, look at this thing, it was above them. That's how fast from the horizon. So that's a fast object. And he said, it was a flying saucer, flying disc, yeah. Okay, it was silver, it was a perfect circle. It was metallic, metallic, silver metallic, perfect circle. And it had flames coming out of it. And he was like, what is that? And he says completely silent and flew very fast over them. So they ran inside the apartment. My mom remembers this. She was inside the apartment playing with her sister and remembers both my grandfather and Colorado walking in going, like screaming and they run to the other side and they're getting scared. Like what's going on? And they went to the other window and it was already on the other horizon. And my grandmother was there and she was like, yeah, you know, he and Colorado ran in freaking out that they saw, we didn't see anything 'cause it was gone. But I think what happened was she believed it to a certain degree. And so did my mom because she was there. Not believed the flying saucer but something flew over the house. - 'Cause your grandfather wasn't someone to make up stories. - Oh God. My grandfather, my grandfather, first extremely old school Catholic Italian, like old school, very strict in terms of how he brought me up, raised me, always sit properly at the table, always wash your hands, always wear good shoes, always be nice to people, like go to school, study, like very old school. And he was not the type at all to invent some story like that. And he was also, I should say, back during the Second World War, he was a prisoner in a concentration camp in Hanover, Germany. He spent two years in a concentration camp and almost died. - Why was he in a camp? - He was an Italian military. And the SS came into the village, grab, I actually got caught at a train station. So he and other soldiers were taken at a train station, put in a train, and he said, there was no seats, and he says, I was standing all the way to Germany. And we were not allowed to sit down. So that was a horrible thing, apparently. But he stayed in Hanover in a concentration camp. And he eventually got all this paperwork and was also later on the German government sent a lot of money to my grandfather because of that. He was able to prove that he was a prisoner and the German government actually had a compensation plan for prisoners that were sent concentration camps. So he got a bunch of money back in the early 2000s because of that. - So the historians who are screaming right now, Italy and Germany were, they were allies for a while. - Yeah, until they weren't. - Until they weren't. - Absolutely, and when they turned on the Italians, they turned on the Italians viciously, not a little bit. I mean, my grandmother used to say all the time, she would talk about the horrors of the Holocaust and all that stuff, but she would always say, we were also victims. - Yes. - So it's something that a lot of people sometimes wonder if really the Italians, yeah, yeah. It was a lot of people died and that was a horrible time. But anyway, being in the military, he said, I knew what aircrafts were even remembered when he was saved in Hanover. He remembered saying, I could see the planes with the black star on them and it was the Americans. So he always said the planes with the black stars saved us, which is a cool thing because it's the American military who came save them and I get choked up because I remember the stories really, really well. And anyway, he knew about this stuff and he's not a guy who used to lie to me or lie to anybody for that matter. So I took him very seriously and I'm like, he saw flying saucer and he would say this occasionally in the house when people come over, some my grandmother would be like, you know, say that story and then he would say the story and everybody be laughing. It was like, ah, ah, ah, ah, that's ridiculous, you know, and he was never laughing. He was always the one guy in the room who wasn't giggling, wasn't laughing. And I always used to like look at him and go, why is everybody laughing? It didn't make sense to me. - Did he get annoyed? - No, he was sad. I saw him, I think he was sad. It wasn't, he wasn't annoyed. - What about Corrado? Did he ever mention the story again? - I don't, I'm sure he did, but he was living in Italy. Kodado was living, was visiting my grandfather and my grandmother in Montreal. They went back to Italy, so I'm sure he had, but back then, how are people keeping track through a letter? You're not going to start getting, it's not like today where you could text and talk all the time. So there was big distances in communication back then, so that's how it was. But he would always be very, very perplexed, I would see him like kind of disappointed. There's the right word. He was disappointed that it was always a joke to him, so I took it very seriously. I remember it sparked something in me, and I said, he doesn't lie. What did he see? Why are we pretending that didn't happen? And obviously, as a kid, I read about flying saucers on whatever I would find, so I'm like, is that stuff real? I wasn't sure, but I was like, he certainly saw something. So it sparked a whole journey in my life, let me tell you, and it changed everything for me. I think that was, without a doubt, the moment that it got me on the trajectory, and I never stopped, you know. And how old were you when you made that decision? Nine. Nine. Yeah. So take us from age nine to Mufon. Well, when I first started looking, well, I wanted to get information on it, and I was a real geek when I was a kid, I was, I guess I was really in, you got to remember the 80s, right? It's not popular to be a geek in the 80s, I don't know if you remember that. Tell me, girl. Yeah, okay. It was bad. So I was like, I would use my summers to really dive deep on science stuff, because actually, there was nothing on flying saucers that I could find, especially Montreal. So I had to just, I thought, if I buy astronomy books, I'm going to learn about flying saucers. That's my, you know, I'm a kid, I'm very naive. So I still have all my astronomy books from when I was a kid. I used to get a small allowance, put money aside. I would help my grandparents at the market. My father's parents were at the fruit market. I would help them get money, put it aside and buy astronomy books. And my mom was always like, you're spending all your money on books about space. She was really like, why don't you go out and play, you know, it was, I was a real geek. So anyway, and I got really, obviously, I got really educated on astronomy, because I'm reading them. But there was never anything about flying saucers. At the end of the books, there was always like a few pages, potentiality of life in the universe. And I'm like, okay, you know, like, but this is not giving me anything. And eventually we weren't, we went to Plattsburg, New York. And that's just about 45 minutes from Montreal Drive. My mom and my grandmother would go there shopping all the time, because the stores in America were much better than the stores in Montreal at that time. Even a small place, place like Plattsburg had way better stuff than Montreal. Really? Oh yeah, yeah. It was so much, so much cool stuff. So we would go there almost like every second or third weekend. So my sister and I in the backseat, and I remember playing Michael Jackson in my, in my Walkman and going to Plattsburg. And actually every time I listen to Michael Jackson, I remember those trips going to Plattsburg. And basically in a bookstore, I see something of Mewfund. I see a Mewfund. I think it was like a pamphlet they had, and I'm like, oh my god, you know, it's like something about UFOs. And you could become a member and I'm like, I couldn't wait to fill it up and send it out. So I sent it. And they said, what's your specialty? And I'm, I don't know. I was like 12 years old or something, and I said, I don't know, astronomy because I had read so much. So my original first card ever got said specialty astronomy. That was crazy. But I received a letter from them when I applied for it. And it was Walt Andress, who was the direct, not executive director or, you know, a big director of Mewfund. And he said, you are officially the youngest member of Mewfund in the world. And that actually intimidated me. I got scared. I remember going, oh, maybe I, like, now what do I have to do? Right. Am I too young? Am I too young? Like, do I have responsibilities now? I was like, maybe I bid off too much here. You know, like, I don't want to, I felt like maybe I should call them and tell them I'm not an astronomer. You know, that's what I thought was like, you know, anyway, I started up. I obviously subscribed to the Mewfund Journal. I started reading about all that stuff. That was really interesting to me because finally, I was getting traction on the stories about UFOs and all that. Obviously, they were called UFOs back then, not UAP. And I still call them that. I'm not with that narrative. Yeah. I'm a UFO guy. Exactly. And so basically that propelled me into the more I read about it, the more I wanted to read about it. And I had to do it in kind of in hiding. I remember my friends would come over. I had a lot of people that made fun of me because I was into UFOs. I was younger and it's like the 80s. It was not cool. It wasn't cool. It wasn't cool. Okay. It was not cool. It was not something that people would always make fun of me because I was into UFOs. What are they saying? What do they say to you? Oh, it was just like, you believe in that stupid stuff. You know, like, basically, why do you believe that's crazy? Luigi's a freak, you know, and it's like, why, you know, why am I a freak? But the, I think it was like a stigma. It was like 100% a public perception of UFOs. I'll say it even now and it kind of feels good to say it on a big platform like yours. When I went to my prom, I'll never forget there must be a video of this somewhere. Somebody from my prom missed a videotape this back then. And I graduated in 1989 when Bob was our, when public and the director of the school was up on stage and he was handing up handing the diplomas at, at prom. And when you get your diplomas at prom? Yeah, they gave it to us at prom. I remember that. Okay. And basically, he said, and now Luigi Vendetta, the guy who believes in aliens and everybody was laughing. And I had to go pick up my diploma while everyone's like, ah, you know, it teaches roasting you. Yeah. And I'll never forget it. I'm talking about it now, right? And I was like, wow. And so that kind of killed my interest to go too, because I was getting to the age where I wanted to start dating girls and go out and have friends and, you know, it's, it's like, I don't want to be a geek all the time. So I was doing it in hiding most of the time. What were you doing anywhere from your farm? Were you investigating? The only thing I did, actually, yes, one thing I did was there was one case. You probably remember it. The Gulf breeze Florida case, right? And I found that to be interesting, because there's so many pictures and there was a guy called Ed Walters who had taken those pictures. And I took it upon myself to write him. I just found his address. I don't remember where I wrote him and I said, you know, I'm this guy Montreal. I'm interested. Is there any more stuff that you could send? And I have an original letter, obviously, from it. I have a videotape he sent me that I still have. And it was made for me and it was Ed Walters talking to me about what had happened and included his home videos of what he saw at the craft. Right? Wow. Was that the acorn shape? Yeah, it kind of, it was. It was not an acorn, but yeah, it was like a, yeah, like a fat, yes, let's call it a fat flying saucer. It wasn't a disk. It wasn't a disk. It was weird. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot of controversy. There's a lot of things apparently saying, oh, it's not real. It's not true. I don't know. At the time, it wasn't determined to be fake yet. And so I was in communication with him and at, and so the local Mufon chapter found out I must have sent a letter to some, and by the way, everything was letters back then. It's just, there was no email, right? So I had sent a letter to somebody saying, I'm in, I was super excited, I'm in communication with this guy. So they invited me to a Mufon event in Quebec, Montreal. And I, I tell my dad, could you drive me to this place? Wait, how old are you now? I was 13. Okay. Okay. And my dad's like, okay, what's going on? And I said, oh, I have to do a presentation to my dad's like, what is that? So we go into this place. I'll never forget. He came there because he was really concerned. And he walks in the room and there's all these people with white hair. And he says, what are you doing here? And I said, dad, you'll see, you know, and they, oh, yeah, why are you, you know, they, were kind of very nice to me because I was a kid. Obviously, they're like super happy that somebody of my age group was there. Obviously, the only young guy there. And I, and I talked, I didn't present it. It was more talk about, oh, you know, I've communicated as the video. They played the video and, and it, it was the very first time I participated in something. And I got in the car and my dad said, every time you talk to these people, let me know. Because for him, it was just like, what are you doing with all these adults? Right. Right? And I said, well, I go, they, they told me to come here, you know, and you're taking it seriously, right? Oh, absolutely. Right. It was very, one of the things that I'll, I'll never forget is my dad's no longer with us, but he was always supportive, always. He was the most supportive dad in the world and what I was doing. He was also conservative Catholic, old school, but 100% supportive in what I was doing. He supported me every time he would hear somebody make fun of me because I was into UFOs. He would back me up at a hundred. percent. So that was something that was amazing. My mom too, and she's she's still with us and she's freaking out that her son made a movie. But you know, and for me, it was at least my parents are not against this because a lot of people also had that happen to them where their parents or their families were not supportive of the looking into this topic. So that's the first thing I'd done. And that essentially then got me really, I mean, I I'm as the red, I don't know, 40, 50 books when I was in my teens about it. I found a picture recently. I should send it to you. I sent it to Chris Ramsey who's a friend of mine. I said, dude, check this out. And it's a picture of my bedroom back then with all my books. And you see all my UFO books. And it's an old picture in my, you know, and he was like, oh my god, it's like, yeah, you see, I was a freaking geek, you know, like all the books were about UFOs. So I was, I, all I did was read about it for the longest time. Definitely send us that picture. We'll throw it. I will. I will. And it's like, there's my telescope in the picture and stuff. And there's like legit geek. So it sounds very familiar to me, Luigi. You're, you're home here. Good. Well, I mean, now it's cool. Right. And now we're having a conversation about this. And I find it's so such a breath of fresh air. And I love all these new people getting involved in it. And it's there's traction. There's people listening, you know, but and so all that time I investigated, obviously was doing not investigations. I guess just researching and information like a lot of people do and eventually got, you know, really involved and became national director over the years. But what were we doing in between? What kind of investigation? Kind of work. Well, the most of the biggest investigations I personally participated in were always in Quebec. Okay. That's the ones I really put a lot of effort on. I used to manage some of the investigations that were happening outside of the Quebec province. But I wasn't the investigator. I was just basically managing the investigations. The ones I personally participated in were a lot to do with the black triangular crafts that were out there. I participated in investigating the one there's a big event. I have a 1990 Montreal, Montreal downtown where they saw something in the air in the clouds. And there was like a lot of witnesses. It's called the plasbon avancer UFO event. And a very good friend of mine, Marc Saint-Germain wrote a book about it. And basically looked into a lot of local stuff that I could be active in because I wasn't traveling as I also that it's important to note that was not my full-time job. That's not what that didn't pay the bills by the way. Okay. So it's important to make that little caveat on the side is that's not how you make monies. You didn't make money then. And you're not really making money now in this field. And a lot of people who, you know, call us grifters or something like that. It's like I, I would really like to know where that money is because a lot of times it's, it's an investment out and no return. And the only return is information. That's it, right? So I had, I started a company in many years ago, spent years in China going back and forth in China. You were doing merchandise? I'm a merchandiser. I'm a product developer, brand developer, specifically through merchandise. So I basically have been behind the scenes for many, many years producing merchandise for people who have brands, right? So it's like when I see your, your cups, you know, basement and anything that's merch, I would be the guy behind the scenes developing stuff for people. I also own a license in Montreal. I own the public transit commission license. So we do, it's like, it's like when you go to New York and you see the MTA subway stuff, I have the Montreal license for all of that and I've been producing stuff for the NHL and a whole a whole bunch of museums, some of the biggest museums in the world. I produce stuff for them. So that's what paid the bills, right? So I was doing that and that at the same time. And as I was, you know, eventually seeing that it was finally gaining traction. And I, and I say this even a long time ago, it was like a real difference, even 10, 15 years ago, it was still super, super, not good, but not as bad as the 80s and the early 90s. Well, before you bring us up to date, what does an investigation even look like if you're, if you're inside Mufon? So the first thing that happens at Mufon is there's a CMS database. They call it, okay? And just what customer management? Yeah, it's kind of like a customer management, you know, it's like a, uh, uh, an internal, uh, you, you, you plug in all the data of an investigation. Call comes in. Call comes in somebody who's a field investigation. So they could call, they could call Mufon. They, they'll say, all right, we're going to refer you to the local field investigator of your area. So if it's, you know, Nebraska or something, they'll reach somebody out there. That person then contacts the witness, goes through a, uh, an initial call and kind of basically assessing, is this even worth plugging in? Because most are it, right? I would say 98% aren't, okay? So, and a lot of people get upset when I say that, but that's the truth. I mean, the reality is a lot of people did think they saw something, but it wasn't, it wasn't ET, okay? It was, it was a, a tremendous amount of misidentifications or very, you know, to, like, the moon is very bright, but if it's behind a cloud, it could have, somebody who's not wearing their glasses, they could see something else and there's so many aspects to it. So the, there's an initial, you know, screening process and a lot of times through the screening process, nothing happens. But then if there is something that happens and there's a lot of cases, by the way, I mean, there's a lot of people that call in and those things then get entered in CMS. So then the, if the investigator deems it to be worthy of, either they go meet with the witness, if it's in proximity to them or if they could do it, because a lot of them are doing this on their, on their free time. Again, nobody's getting paid to do this or they could do it over the phone. And now the beauty of Zoom or video calls, that's probably, because I'm not in it anymore, but it's probably gotten even easier because you could do a video call and kind of save yourself a trip. You, let's say you go see the, the witness, you meet with them. You know, that also is a big, the terminator of whether you're dealing with somebody who is on it. I don't want to call them dishonest. Are they, are they honestly assessing it properly for themselves? That's the, that's the right way of saying. It's not, they're not dishonest. But are they just overly excited? Right. Because there's a lot of that. Of course. If you, if you go out looking for something, sometimes you get to find it, especially if you want it to be right. You know, like I, I saw it. I saw that. What did you see? You know, it's like a light. Okay. What did it do? It was just moving near the trees. That, that could have been a plane. You know what I mean? Right. No, I never see planes there. Well, it doesn't mean the plane didn't go there. So it's, so, sometimes it's a frustrating thing. And I became, I was very, I was very strict, by the way. I think the years of experience was making me very strict. So I was also not getting along with some of the investigators who also they wanted it to be that so that they could be an investigator on a case. There's a lot of hate for this going to come at me from saying this, but that's the reality of it. Well, the people know that Mufon's kind of infamous for infighting and the politics inside between the believers. And I don't want to call you a skeptic, but it's more like a tight funnel. That's right. You have a tight funnel than what comes out is really important. That's very, that was crucial because otherwise we're wasting resources. Yes. Period. The reality is, regardless of how, and you know, in terms of evidence, obviously everybody says you have a picture, you have a video, you have something, you have, you know, tracks, you have a landing, you know, if they landed, you see something, you have radiation, you have a detector that you went there, anything. So those are obviously the ones that are of most interest because now you have something, you have a tangible piece of something that you could work with other than I was outside of a smoking cigarette. I saw light in sky. Okay. And I say that thinking Mike, that's what happened to my granddad. And that's what made me go. So I'm not disputing that that's not possible. Oh, we have to be careful and not immediately saying that's a flying saucer UFO or whatever, but when they have a picture or video, and it is interesting, then yeah, that information could get put into CMS. There's a whole list of questions you have to ask the person. And then there's also as a director, I had access to all investigations. So I had access to seeing if there was a pattern in that area within a certain time. So if somebody said, I saw this, you know, long black object in the sky, and they're in Winnipeg. Okay, well, do we have anything around Winnipeg that's saying that, you know, if you hear another one, oh, that's definitely of interest versus no, I don't hear. So it could be interesting, but okay, what do we do with it? I still have people reach out to me almost on a daily basis, even the fact that I did this film, they think that I'm actively investigating. So they'll be like, check this. Just out, I have a picture and it's like 8,000 feet away and it's a little dot. I'm like, okay. I mean, what can I do with that? What can I do with that? It's not helping. I appreciate it. I understand the need to share it, but we're not going to get anywhere with it. Even if I could zoom in and see that it doesn't have wings, okay. You know, this is not going to make the cut. It's not going to make the cut, right? So there was a lot of discarding of stuff and there was. Did you come across anything that passed all your tests? Oh, absolutely. You did. Oh, absolutely. 100 favorite. Again, black triangular crafts are the ones I really put a lot of effort in. There was, you saw the object, we're talking lights in a shape. Oh, object. Absolutely. Absolutely. Clearly undeniable black triangular craft. Not a TR3B or anything. No. You know, everybody says TR3B. I don't, I don't think it's a, from what I heard from witnesses and from the time frames that they'd come in, which I'll say this, as I was investigating and we're talking, you know, a good eight, eight, nine years of, very, very active investigating, you would, I would meet people who would be like, hold on, my wife will talk to you. You know, they had something happen and the wife comes out and says, I saw it in 1996. Right. And I never went public because I didn't, and my kids saw it. None of the kids are grown up. I had a case. In fact, the witness saw the black triangular craft. I meet with the witness and then his wife says she had seen it. She had seen it with her kids like they were remarried or something and the kids weren't at home. And I said, could I speak to them? They're adults now. They were outside playing in 1996 and they said there was a black triangular craft right on top of the trees with all these colorful lights. They said, come and not don't know it because in French, like a Christmas tree. And it's like, oh, so and and I spoke to these adults and they say, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was there. Now, this is something that wasn't current. This was in 1996. They never reported it because they didn't report it. But because now somebody was in contact with me reporting it out, let me go get her and then boom, boom, boom. And you're finding out, oh, really a black triangular craft was around here in 1996. What it did is it made me start questioning, is this really a government thing? Like is it, if it was the government, and it's always possible, by the way, I don't, I don't ever omit the possibility that it's terrestrial, by the way. That's a very important thing. You can't assume ET is driving this thing. If it's terrestrial, well, that means that something was already in play in 96, that long time ago, right? And if that's the case, why would they be flying at low altitude or hovering if you want to call that no sound in the Laurentians north of Montreal where there's nothing. There's no reason for being out there. There's no air, there's an airport, but it was, it's a FedEx lens there, UPS, it's a cargo airport. There's nothing that would be like, yeah, the government is testing secret aircrafts and they're flying over people's cabin, like the Laurentians are known for ski resorts and all that. Like, why would you fly there? Yeah, the sound is always interesting because we're here in Vegas, so we see test flights all the time. Yeah. They're so loud, they'll set off every car alarm in the city. So when you say it made no sound, that's that is a big deal. And there was one incident that I, the most credible, I would say the one that really, really struck me happened in 2013, the gentleman reached out to me in 2014 because he found that I existed because he didn't know who to call in 2013 and I finally reached out to him. He was in Southwestern Ontario and he said, this is a normal every day. You know, blue collar guy driving a pickup truck, putting a baseball cap, plays baseball, cool dude, but not a UFO guy. He's coming home to in the morning. He was with his friends driving in the middle of Southwestern Ontario, turns and there's a small town that you blink and you miss it in Ontario. He says, he sees what looked to him like fire in the sky and it was coming down and he thought it was a helicopter on fire. So he's just like, oh, you know, like, let me go help these guys and it went to the right. So he turned to the right and he's driving, you know, trying to see where it's going down. He eventually stops his truck because there's a, there's a church and the triangular craft. It was a black triangular craft. He saw it. He could clearly see it had had lights on each end and in the middle of it had a plasma. It looked like plasma. He said, it looked like lava moving this description before. And it was right above the church tower where the cross is and he was like, you know, he stops the truck. He stops the truck right on the road and puts it in park, opens the door and puts one foot out and one foot in truck and he's looking up at this thing and he's like, what the hell is that? And he says in an instant and he says it was so fast that it was at, I don't say a hundred meters away, a hundred yards away. It went right in front of him at 20 feet below the traffic of the street light below the street light. Okay. How big was this thing? He says it was around 20 feet. Yeah. In in in length, if you want to call it. He said, it looked like it was a shiny black diamond. It looked like shiny black diamond, little bricks, he drew it for me like these little bricks. And he said the top of it wasn't flat. It had like a, it was like flat and then came up a little bit at a point, but he couldn't see it very well from this angle. And he's looking at this and he's like, what was this? And he said there was not, it was first of all, he said it didn't make any sound, but it also took all the sound away. I couldn't hear anything. That's interesting. Yeah. He says it was complete. It's like you're in a, in a sound room, where you don't hear anything. He said that's what it felt like. It was complete silence. That's going to track what some of the physics was Bob's story and others, I believe so. And so now what made it really interesting when he's describing this to me and he said something that made me kind of believe him really quickly. He says, I thought that they had a projector somewhere and that they were going to come out with balloons and I was going to be on candid camera or something because he's like, what am I looking at? He's like, there has to be a projection for it to move so quickly. That's what he's, he's not thinking it's a real thing. He's like, where's the cameras, you know? I think that's why there's so few photographs or video of things like that. My brother had a sighting similar. You're so out of your element, you're not, you're not thinking. You're not thinking. You're just like, what is this? And he said it to me. He said, Luigi, if I took out my camera, my phone and snapped a picture, I would have had the best picture in the world of one of these things, but it didn't even occur to me. He said, I was going, what am I looking at? It's happening, you know, live, so you're just focused. He says it tilted a little bit. There was a tiny little cemetery right to his right, a really small cemetery. And it just went like that and moved so quickly over the cemetery ground and he's, you know, he's scared because now it moved again. So he's just like, what's it going to do? And it's, and it had a red, a laser, if you want to call it a laser. And he said, it was like a sewing machine, doing this on the cemetery ground. Like a, it was scanning it, but like the laser was going to do, like really fast, like a sewing machine. Did you ever, did you ever hear about the devil's den siding? No. This is the exact same story, same craft, same laser beam, pen turtion and wales similar, but devil's den is this exact story, the craft, the thing in the middle and what really set me off is this laser description. They said they saw the same thing, this repeating laser and it looked like it was scanning their campsite. Exact same story. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. I didn't know the story. So this is exactly what he see. When he saw that, he said, that's when I got scared. Yep. He says at that moment, I got scared because he's like, is that a weapon? Mm-hmm. Because he doesn't know. He's just like, what is that thing? Why is it doing that? You know, so he, he kind of stepped into the truck a little bit looking at it through the cabin window on the other side. And he said, it basically just tilted and slowly flew away. He says, if flew away behind the trees and that was good, it was it. Now when he met with me, he was so worried that I was going to make fun of him. He was super worried and he kept saying, I'm, dude, I'm, I, I really saw this and I'm like, okay, I believe you. He's like, I don't want you to think I'm crazy, man. I'm like, no, I don't think you're crazy, but he was so concerned. I was so not his thing that he thought, I can't even believe I'm talking about this because I didn't think this could ever happen to me. And I was like, I, I believe you. So I even investigated him. I said, to make sure I want a second opinion, there's a man who I'm very thankful for knowing his name as Professor Don Donderry from McGill University in Montreal. He's written books on this. He's a friend of mine. He's getting older now, but still doing well. At the time, I called Don. He's a PhD in perceptive psychology. He's done a lot of work for the government and all that. He's very well respected. And I said, I would like for you to meet the witness, just to assess the person. I want to have a second opinion. And I introduced it. So Don came out. We went to Ontario together and met with him. And when we walked out of there and got in the car, Don said, he's completely sane. He's a he's a he's saying the truth. Well, he says what felt like he was being 100% honest. And he the sky kept saying, I don't want this to go public. I don't I don't need the you know, the attention or anything. So why would he do that? Why would this guy not want any attention? Very credible. You know, for Don to kind of validate that for me, because I'm if I get to a point where I'm okay, I really believe this. I need somebody else to like validate that I'm not missing something here, right? Yeah. And so it was interesting. And then for that to be validated, that got me really intrigued in what these cases were happening in with the black triangular crafts. So I started mapping them out. I can share this with you so you can show it on the screen. Yes. After we're done. But I have an image of that map of all the sightings of black triangular crafts at that time, all around that area, all the way to around Lake Ontario to Toronto, north of Toronto, and believe it or not, in the Laurentians in Quebec. What do you think they were doing there? I have no idea. There's no pattern to the sightings. I have no idea. No, just people seeing it. Yep. So between 2013 and 2017, there's 200 catalog cases in that area. That's a lot of people. Yep. Why would all these people claim to have seen a black triangular craft? If even if we went, which is unlikely, but if we discarded half of them, that's still a lot of people. And for every one of those, there's 10 that didn't report it. Oh, for sure. I mean, that's actually, it's a really good point that you raised because I had by me doing this, I met with people who didn't want to report it. But they said, yeah, I saw something, but I don't want to talk about it. Do you guys check with law enforcement? Oh, I absolutely. I worked with the, because I was director, I had a contact in all the different police. Sure. So I also worked with RCMP, which is federal police. They would, I had a contact with them. I had a contact with MUC police. I had, of course, you have to with the certainty to Quebec, which is the provincial police there. There was a shortage Quebec police officer who saw it. But he didn't, his wife, his wife talked to us with her name, but he didn't want to. Yeah, he was like, no, no, no, no, I don't want to. So we have his testimony. He saw it, but he wouldn't talk about it. So in this is frustrating. And if frustrates a lot of people, absolutely agree that it's frustrating because they say, well, if it's evidence, why don't they want to talk it? Why wouldn't they, why wouldn't they put it out? Well, think about it. They have families. They have friends. Forget us. Forget, forget, forget the audience who wants this. Their lives are affected. If they suddenly say, I saw something anomalous in the air. It's their problem story for you. Exactly. They don't want that. They don't want that in their life. They don't need it. And I respect that because they have, they have their own personal reasons for that. So it's an important thing to all, to, to bring up when you're talking about investigating this stuff, because there's a human component to all of it. Of course. So I consider that to be some of the most compelling stuff that I ever worked on. And I eventually started working alongside one of the aerial school witnesses. I was just going to ask you about your interest in aerial school, maybe just a quick sum up of the, this audience knows the story, but a quick sum up of Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a case in 1994. In the middle of a recess at 10, 15 in the morning, at a small elementary school in rural Zimbabwe in Rua, Zimbabwe. Kids were playing outside. Over 60 kids were playing outside. And the teachers were inside having a teacher's meeting. And suddenly they see three objects in the sky, three craft, three flying saucers, if you want to call them, silver discs. One of them landed at about a hundred meters under yards from the, from the school, from the, they had a place where they could play. And they had these logs, these wood logs that were all around. And they called them the, the, the log barrier. So the kids couldn't go beyond, beyond it. So they play, sometimes they would jump around the long log barrier. And the kids are playing there. And this thing landed outside the log barrier landed. And they're all, obviously, what is that? What is that? They heard a high pitch sound. And it then it went away. And then they're seeing these, these, they, they didn't know what it was. But they saw people running, right, from a distance. And my friend who passed away, Emily Trim, who was one of the witnesses there, was next to Lisa Field, who was interviewed by John Mack and some of these interviews. They were, and they, and these beings came close to the kids. And they were not human. And they were not, the kids initially thought they were animals of some type because they, I mean, these are kids between seven years old, 12 years old. And so they were all looking at this. And there was these two beings that were apparently dressed in black jumpsuits, standing, obviously, and big black eyes. And they started communicating to the kids. The kids started seeing images in their minds. And some of those images were very terrible images, very negative, very, very traumatic images. Like what? People dying, no air, people suffocating images of the earth and, and war and, and things that we, I guess, something that had to do with what's happening or what could happen. And they, they all saw an explosion at the end. And it was like a big giant fiery explosion. This is not something that kids are used to, especially in Rural's and Bobway in 1994. So it, it became a big story at, at that time, obviously, and these beings commuting. And then they disappeared. They just vanished. And the school reset the bell rang. This, everything disappeared. Kids ran in the school screaming, you know, what they saw. Teachers didn't believe them. Nobody believed them. They think they, you know, got to go back to class. Let's go back, you know, got to go study. And the kids are like, they're freaking out. So they eventually got to a point where they realized the kids saw something because they were freaking out. I mean, there's no way you can calm 60-some kids that saw this. They're not going to just go back to class and learn about math. There's, we got to talk about this. And so they brought in Cynthia Hind, which was a Mew Fund investigator in South Africa at the time. She came in, what a guy called Gunter, who brought a, to check radiation. I've got your counter. Thank you. And so he, they went on, on the school grounds. And, and I have the pictures from Gunter. And you could see where it landed. I've seen those. You can see it. You could see it. Where it landed. There was no radiation detected on the ground. So. But something crushed. Something crushed. All that, right. And the kids were visibly affected. And event, it got to, it got to Tim Leach, which was a BBC reporter who ran it as a big story on the BBC. He was covering some of the atrocities that were happening in Botswana and Zaire at the time was a lot of bad things happening in Africa. And he said, this was, this is a big deal. Like these kids, he met with them. He goes, they're not, they're not lying. Everybody's saying the same thing. And it got to the ears of Professor John Mack from Harvard. He was in great, he was in London at that moment and decided to take a plane and fly down and interviewed a lot of the kids and determined that they're saying something that they saw. And we can see all those interviews. Oh, yeah. And they're, they're compelling. I mean, you could see in the eyes of those kids, they saw something. Now, you know, a lot of, a lot of stuff related to that. And I, I, I became very close friends with Emily Trim. She was there and had seen this and it affected her a lot. Her brother dedicated your movie to her. Yes, I did. Well, did you and Emily work together? I spent 10 years with Emily, not, not, people thought I was dating Emily. I never dated Emily. She was a, she became a very close friend of mine and had a lot of trouble dealing with the trauma of what had happened at Ariel and something else that had happened to her when she was 21 again, related to all this. By the way, for anybody listening, this was not the end of that with these kids or the people that were there. There was things that happened after. And that's not been reported. So there have been a lot of people who've had things that happened to them after which were very traumatizing. Does this connect to your work with David Jacobs? Yes, absolutely. Can you explain who he is and what? David Jacobs, so this brought me to really look into these contact events or these encounters if you want to call them. And I started reading more about I already knew a lot of I had read a lot of the books in the past by Hopkins and all that, but I want to kind of refresh It's kind of like a different section of the research. You have to really separate yourself from that and start looking into the encounter stuff and I I asked I remember reading a couple of David's books and I caught and I called Don Nonderry was a friend and I said I'd really like to talk to him and he says I can arrange that. I'm close with David. So you arrange that and we had some exchanges. Any eventually invited me to go out to his house and I spent You know some lots of lots of time with David and That relationship became very important to me because he saw how incredibly Interested I was in learning this but learning this on a professional level. Not just a superficial booklet Like you could read a lot about this stuff, but it's also Written in a way so it's digestible for people. Oh, who is David and what did he do David? Yeah, my book my bad David Jacobs is was One of the most respected Researchers in abductions in the world. He was one of the reasons why John Mack also got involved in this Maybe it was a psychologist. No, actually, no, no, he's a PhD in history. He's a history PhD But he's not a psychologist, but known for regression therapy. Absolutely. He he started he when I met him He had already been involved in this for 40 years so he had an a lot of Experience in it and when I when I went to his house for anybody who knows The abduction expert back then and was like bud hopkins was one of those David had all of bud hopkins work in his basement all of it Wow, and so that's a lot of work Oh, yeah, and I went down he took me downstairs in his basement in his basement I'll never forget and it was Filled almost to the to where the windows work because it like I'm talking stacks of files filing cabinets and cassette tapes, you know the cassette tapes. I mean thousands of them And he said this is all of bud's work. I hope that's digitized somewhere. So I was myself and Randall Nickerson knew that that was at David's house Randall actually helped move it there because he was close to bud hopkins and David said I don't know what I'm gonna be doing with this, but I I need this to never be lost, you know And I said let me know whatever how how I can help He eventually found a way to get it to the I believe it's the Philadelphia Museum or some educational museum Has all this work in their possession somebody could go there and I could find out exactly I can't remember the name now, but you could go there and access all it's all Stored in the archives there. So it's not lost, right Which is good very very good and I spent two years Train being trained by David Jacobs trained. Yeah, he would do we would do at the time. There was no zoom. There was a Skype, right? So I had I can't I don't remember how many we would do Skype calls because he's in he was in Philadelphia I'm Montreal and we would do them at night 8 pm to 11 pm. So we do three hours every night or every second night And basically telling me the ins and outs of this phenomenon What to watch out for what could be perceived as evidence and it's not what could potentially be Not a real memory, you know, so there was a lot of stuff that I learned in that time including some Very it's not confidential. It's kind of like it's like when you when you work in something Like this. It would you have to be careful how you Word it to the person that you're Either regressing interrogating speaking to whatever you have to be very cautious. What words you use? This is a criticism of john's word of john macro. It was kind of leading exactly. You have to be very careful about that because you could exactly lead them or build some alternate memory It's a very tricky thing. So you have to be very cautious also with Regressive diagnosis because it could you could have lies in that sure, okay? Or or if not intentional Unintentional you could create a memory you could create a memory absolutely. So there was a lot of that You know, I'm absorbing this obviously because I'm very interested in in in the topic And so that was in a very Very rich period of my life because I was learning a lot of this reading a lot of this and every time and I was also wild that is happening. I'm Very close to Emily and and she Had not want to open up about her or experiences and had decided to open up to me But in in small steps And I respected that you know because there was so much emotion us attached to it and David's Training to me was always very important because I he always said he all in fact he's he's unfortunately Not that well with his health. So he doesn't he's not he's not active anymore, but um He would always say whenever you meet somebody who's had an experience and wants to be regressed Convince them not to do it very interesting. He always said that says always do your best To convince them not to do it even if they beg you to do it Pay attention to how they are make sure that they're not Already experiencing something traumatic in their life like are they having marital issues? Are they having health issues? Do they have problems with their job or whatever because this will Under percent bring up some bad things whether they like it or not and it could further damage Whatever is already happening in their life They don't need this and we don't need this we don't need any would say don't be Selfish in wanting to know what their trauma is. This is another tight funnel guy absolutely You have to be careful about that what did um you learn from Emily that You don't have to be try confidence. I know she's passed recently. She's passed Emily was extremely like we were i mean i can't even begin to tell you how extremely close we had become and she was so generous with information She was she really was and she was suffering a lot. I mean the the The amount of people that wanted stuff from Emily um was really that was really a lot and she would always close up and and not want to to share I had to it that whole part of my life was I think I'll say it I felt like I graduated okay, so all those years With all the investigations and all that I felt like that was like I had become like really top of my game I was like in last year high school and the the oldest guy in in the school And now I graduated and i'm going to college and i'm the youngest guy and i'm learning something completely new really Yeah, that's how I felt because when you when i went into The communication contact and all that that was not just uh It's not nuts and bolts It becomes emotional and emotional is a difficult thing You don't you're no longer i'm no longer talking to you about something that is logical I'm talking about an emotional response and that is not the same No, and it's trauma it's trauma emotion exactly so i became very conscious of the fact that i don't want to spark Any trauma on somebody because i'm inquisitive you know what i mean or i'm interested where i'm curious about this That to be that to learn all over again to be like okay because if i can ask you you know Is the flying saucer that i had tripods that did not have tripod okay, you know that i have legs no legs whatever That's like nuts and bolts but when you were crying were you crying because you were scared or were you crying because you were traumatized It's a completely different interaction right so you have to be very and and again I always say I can't i used to say i can't believe i'm the guy doing this Because i shouldn't be there should be absolute experts in psychology that are not Sitting down with these people assessing them or let's say trying to judge to see what's their problem Right see what i mean that's a good distinction Yeah, it's like let's not look at them as there's a problem Let's find out what happened right there's a huge difference there And that's kind of where i used to be like man do we really have a lot to learn here as people Because here we want to know what is this what is this what is all this What what's it all about? Well, we don't know We know that something is happening and these people are experiencing things and this was where i was at where i'm seeing them reliving trauma cry a lot of crying a lot of emotional stuff and We have to look at that no longer as investigators But also as humans as a human being basically It became a thing where it's like, if I do believe this is really happening to you because I guess you have to have a certain degree of credibility as well in the story. So yes, I have to kind of assess it to go, you're not a nut job because there are some, by the way. But once you've passed that, I wanna be a safe place for you when I'm talking to you. I don't want you to think that I'm trying to get information from you and I'll walk away with it. You give it to me? Good, you don't give it to me, even the better. I'm here to help. I'm here to make you know that you're not alone in this, that clearly something seems like it happened to you. I feel bad that you have to suffer from all this because it's a lot of, what I learned a lot about this is, they would open up to me and would say, "My husband doesn't even know this happened to me." - Really? - Yeah. And I'm like, "Are you kidding?" Yeah, I can't talk to this about my husband. I know one person, I'm not gonna name her name. Her husband divorced her because she ended up being in a documentary about what happened. - Oh my goodness. - Any divorced her. That's terrible. So, because it's impossible and I can assure you, she was there, there's other witnesses that were there with her. So, if she was making it up, they all had to make it up. Everybody was making it up, right? So, it was a really different thing and I was very fortunate to have worked with David to got all that information. David would also provide me information that was never to be divulged publicly about small things that could happen in an event that would indicate that this is a true event. Things that they do. - For example? - Well, I can't get into that because he would say, if you mention these things to the witnesses or to the people that have gone through the encounters, other people will hear you say that and they'll say they had that happen to them. - They will. - They see what I mean. - Mm-hmm. - So, you have to keep a certain, a few things. One of the things, the only thing I can tell you is, there is one thing in particular, which stuck with me. There's one thing they do to us, not all of them, but in a large percentage of the cases that they do to us on our back. - Did that happen to Emily or the kids at Ariel? - No. - No, not at all. That was a separate, the kids at Ariel, the event, is really a unique event. And I consider it to be possibly one of the most important events because they landed and communicated with so many children and all those witnesses. I can say this now, some of those kids that committed suicide after happened. - I could believe that. - Okay. - And all those people lived with that for many, many years. And I talk to them now and they're all sticking to that story. If it didn't happen, because a lot of people say they just imagined it, it's mass hallucination or whatever. They're all in their 30s and their 40s. They would keep doing this. You're telling me all these people are all in on it still today. Would you be in on it? - No. - Like would you still keep a lie that you kept with your friends when you were nine? That's ridiculous. So there's something that happened. These creatures, whoever they were, they were creatures. They were real, I asked them a lot of people say, do you think they were AI robots or something? You know, people are talking about, so I asked, I keep referring to them as the kids, but they're not kids anymore. So kind of, I'll say kids just because they were kids when it happened, but I asked the kids, I said, do you think they were robots? And they, no, not at all. They were real living. You know, but don't you think it's possible? And all of them are like, no, no, no, no. These were, they were alive because of the communication. They could feel it. - The way they felt, they feel it. The way they moved, they said these were 100% living creatures. Now, were they just really, really good robots? I doubt it, but if I can't, I can't say, I don't know the, I don't know, I can't confirm that. But something happened on that day, and something was communicated to these kids, and they all saw it. - Do you think it was intentional that landing? Or, 'cause some of the stories are, was it repair? - I don't know, and I hurt, of course I heard that. You know, and some people saying the craft was not flat on the ground, it was on an angle like that. Look, it's very possible that it was not intentional, very, very possible. But we don't know, okay, yeah, it's possible. I'll say that because even, believe it or not, even they, even the kids go, yeah, I don't know. They'll say, we don't know what, what it was. We were just playing, and it's like, and that happened. You know, so it was, there was a, there was one of them, I won't say who, it really struck me. Very, very, cat, oh, she's Catholic or Christian, whatever it is, but she says, I don't believe in aliens. I don't believe in flying saucers. But I can't explain what I saw that day. I mean, that says a lot. - There's some of the videos I'm calling them now at the kind of heartbreaking. Before we go to a quick break and get to S4, let's just finish off with Emily. Let's give her a send off, what would she want people to know? - Wow, she was an incredibly wonderful person, very sensitive, went through a lot when she was a kid because of it, put it behind, like buried it, like with her brother who buried it. Her brother was there recently had a really nice time to get to know him more. She was, she would always say to me, I'll say what she said to me at the very end, but I'll say something she said to me a couple of years before she passed. She says, we're all lying to each other. She says, the world is lying to each other, Luigi, she would say that to me all the time. Everything is a lie. It's not that we're doing this purposely, but we're constantly lying to each other because the whole goal for all of us is to become something in this society. So we're lying to each other and we're all on the wrong path. She kept repeating that to me. We're always lying to each other. That struck a big chord to me because she would say it with such, like with tears in her eyes, she says, I don't know how to explain it, but we're not being honest with one another. And it's like humans are not saying the truth to each other. We're always, there's always a guard. We're always keeping certain things and we're always saying it in a way where we, it's like we're always in an interview. And we're not saying everything, but it's true. We do lie to each other. I guess we're not lying like, hey, I have like three yachts. I'm not, that's not the type of lies that I think she's talking about. There's a social performance. Exactly. So she wants us to what? Just I think she, I think she felt that we were losing, we were losing track of ourselves, she had a butterfly. So this is important. When this happened, after it happened, she had multiple other encounters. She wasn't the only one, by the way. And those were things that really affected her. For some reason, there was a communication with these beings that communicated something to her about butterflies. She called it the butterfly story. And she called it, where did all the butterflies go? And she says, it was something they told her and she wrote it down. She goes, I wrote it as I was receiving it. And she said it in 2015, we were in Arizona and she said it on stage. I have a video of it. And it was the most touching thing. Everybody in the crowd was crying. The whole crowd was crying. It was, she called it, where did all the butterflies go? And she said, the butterflies represented them, them. And that they said, and that she was representing us in the conversation with the butterflies. And she said, why are you leaving? Why are you all going away? And they said, we're going away because you're doing things that don't allow us to be there with you. You're not taking care of your environment. You're not taking care of your world, essentially. But don't go away. She kept saying don't go away. But they said, we can come back. But it's up to you to make that happen. So she would say this. She said this in a beautiful monologue that she did on stage. It was very nice. And she said, it felt like they're trying to communicate to us, to be better. but not, not technologically. logically better, just better as people. And when I last saw her the very last time than I saw her, she stood, she was sitting in front of me. She didn't look like her anymore. She had changed. But her eyes were her eyes. And she said they came down from the sky and landed in front of us and talked to us so that we could tell the world and nobody cared. And she died a few days later. I'll never forget that. I hope you don't. That's an important message, nobody cared. Yeah, because you know, I felt, I could see it from her, you know, and I say, and I question, why did this happen to her, you know, because she was such a good person. She was important. Yeah, it's a good person. And I consider that, if I consider that to be one of the most important events and we should listen, we should just listen to it. I mean, forget judging this. You know, everybody goes in with this judgmental, we shouldn't, we shouldn't look at it like that. It's wrong. It happened. Why did it happen? Well, you know, somebody could say the thing wasn't operating properly. It landed. They communicated, well, even if it was that. Still a message. It's still a message. The message is important. And let's not also forget the message that they had in them to convey to us, that's another thing. Because now the message has been conveyed to these kids. And they showed us what happens if we don't listen. Exactly. And then it also shows how judgmental we are if they open up about it. They open up about it. All right, we'll come back in a minute, give me a chance to use a tissue and we'll talk about S4. Yeah, great. So it all started with a model. Yes, it did. It all started with a potential collector quality die cast model. You were just trying to make a, make a product? I just wanted to make a product because I'm a merchandiser. Right. And I thought, let me make a really good flying saucer for everybody to have a home. And I got, I got as a, I got Bob's attention. And he was impressed. He basically asked me, I finally got to talk to Bob Lazar. And, you know, how did you get through to Bob? That's not easy to do. No, that was actually, I, it was really a shot in the dark. I thought, I could do this without Bob Lazar. I, I spent months researching the whole story and all the, as much of information I could find online about the sport model flying saucer. And there was a lot of information that was really unclear. I couldn't understand if which part was real, which part, some telephone game over the years, people changing stuff. So I said, let me, let me try reaching out to him and at least see if he's willing to guide me in correcting just a few things and put his stamp of approval. And that would make it so much more interesting. And I reached out to United Nuclear Scientific, which is his company. I sent, I didn't send any email, I called. I just, goal called him. And Zach answered the phone. And I said, I'm, I'm so and so. I'm in a guy from Montreal. You guys don't know who I am. Here's my website. Here's some of the stuff I've done. I'm a merchandiser. I promise I'm not some crackpot. I, I know what I'm doing. I want to make this cool quality flying saucer. The only guy I know who's been in one who can give me some details about it as opposed to somebody who's been in one and frightened, you know, because, you know, so I said, I wonder, you know, I don't expect this to go any further than this, but I gave it a shot. So he says, look, I don't know if Bob's going to talk to you. I'll ask him. And so I got a call back two days later. And Zach goes, yeah, he'll talk to you. Wow. How did that feel? I was like, okay. I mean, for me, it was just like, I remember, I was at the office. I saw United Nuclear on my phone. I said, I don't know. But it's called, you know, answer the phone. They got transferred to me. And I was like, well, during those two days, you're like, easy. There's no way I was like, there's no way he's going to talk to me. I'm like, who am I? You know, plus I'm in Montreal, I'm far away. Anyway, he says, yeah, he'll talk to you. He saw some of the stuff you, like he'll talk to you. I said, oh, okay. So I said, when you want to do that, he said, tomorrow, give me a time. I can't, for me, it was 6 p.m. For him, it was 3 p.m. 'cause the three-hour difference, and got on the phone, Bob Lazar. For me, it was surreal. And I'm like, Bob, first of all, thank you for, you know, being on the call. It's a pleasure to talk to you. And he was very nice. And so immediately, he says, what exactly do you want to do? Explain, I want to do a die-cast model. I've made a lot of stuff in my life. So I know what I'm doing. And immediately, he says, okay, well, if you would do it, how would you do it? What did he mean by that? He says, he's told me this at a later time. He says, you have no idea how many people have reached out to me with all these projects. And when I would ask them, how would you do it? I could tell they'd never done that before. Right. You know? Right. So he's just going to bullshit it. Exactly. So he says, he said, how would you do it? You know, and I said, well, how do you want me to explain it to you? Well, what kind of materials would you say? I started, I gave him a run. I mean, I spent those 15 years back in Portland, China. I learned how to do stuff. So I gave him a real technical answer. And he was like, oh, and I said, and as far as the waveguide is concerned, inside the craft, I knew something about the waveguide. I said, I would make that in two different materials for the model. One of them would be the metal. The other one would be a silicone, because we could mimic the movement. He goes, okay, okay, stop. He goes, I could see you know what you're doing. Come and see me. Wow. And I bought the plane ticket. I'll never forget. He emailed me that night. And he says, these are the dates I'd be available. 'Cause I work, yeah, I have other stuff to do. I said, great. I bought a plane ticket, sent it to him. He says, perfect. I flew out to Oregon. And as I'm at, I think I was in Denver. I was like a stop before getting to Oregon. He wrote me, he says, tonight don't, he goes, come straight to my house tonight. We're gonna have dinner with my wife and stuff. And I said, oh my god. Wow. That's great. So first time I met Bob Lazar was at his house. And we had dinner. And Zach brought me there. Did you know that you were dining with a unicorn? I was like, I couldn't believe it. I could not believe this had happened. And I'll tell you a funny story. I gave him a gift. I brought him a gift. So back in the, in the late 80s when I would go to Italy all the time. In my father's village, there was a lot of, if you, if you dug into the ground, you can actually find old world, world, world, world. World two shells, like artillery shells that were still on, they used ones. But they're underground. They could find them. So I collected many of them over the years. And I keep them in a, in a nice display in my house. But those are rare. Those are really rare. They're anti-aircraft American shells that were used against the Germans. So I took a shell. I said, let me bring him one of these. Because this is something from my family, you know, from where I'm from. And I get to the airport. And in the security, they stopped it. I was going to ask you how that went. And it's an empty shell. And I read about it. And you're a lot to do it. But you're not. You're a lot to do it on paper. But apparently you're not allowed to do it at the airport. So they said, no, you can't go. You're going to have to, we're going to have to throw it out. I said, no, no, no, no. You're not throwing that out. So they said, well, you're going to have to go and give it to somebody and come back through security. So I went back out. I'm going to get in trouble for saying this. But I bought a cheap backpack that was at a stand. I put it in there. I took some stuff out of my carry on, put it in the backpack. And I went and checked the backpack. And I said, I have another check bag. I checked it. It passed. It got to work. Nice. So I gave him the, the, the, the shell. And anyway, we started talking. And he said, do you really want to do this? You really think people are going to want to buy a flying saucer? I said, if it's done right, absolutely. And he says, wow, you didn't even hesitate. I said, no, I'm not hesitating. Hey, nobody's ever done that. Where are we going to sell these like direct consumer? I think it was going to go direct to consumer. It's still going to happen, by the way, it hasn't happened yet. But we're not talking about like some plastic model here. We're talking about like some really high quality stuff. Where if you think about it, there's a lot of, there's a lot of die cast collectors out there. Or a lot of people collect models. There is not one good quality commercial grade, not, not artistic artists could do one of one. You know, I'm talking commercial industrial made flying saucer. It doesn't exist. No, it looks so sexy in here. Right. So I'm like, I want a real flying saucer that somebody's going to want to put in their house. And so that, that's a cool piece, right? So that's what I want to do. And so that was the whole beginning of the project. And so it's going to happen. It's just not, that's the way worked out didn't happen that way. But that was the beginning of the, the whole, the whole way I approach bubbles are. He was, he's been absolutely incredible in. In the initial stages, I sat with him, spent two days with him, we went over everything. And he was extremely generous with this time. He corrected, there was so many corrections. I would say, this is what's on this website and he said, that's not it, he goes, it's like this. And I had brought with me, there was a model made in 1994 by the testers corporation. It's a plastic model made in the USA. It's available on eBay right now for about two, three hundred bucks. It's a really cheap model, but it's slightly accurate. Okay. It's pretty accurate. There's a lot of things that are not, but it's accurate. So I had brought one with me and he goes, oh, yeah, I remember this, you know, John Andrews and came and see me, but immediately he saw some things in the model. He goes, actually, that's not accurate and that's not accurate and the seat shape is not accurate. So that's the whole point. Let's make it accurate. Let's get it right. Right. Let's get it right. And so that turned out to be the biggest project I've ever done in my life. So what were you doing? Just iterating with Bob with 3D designs? We went. Yeah. So I came back to Montreal. I had a lot of information that I had taken down. I went back to Montreal, I sat down with my team and I said, all right, let's start doing this. And we have a, we built, we made a 200 page book out of this of all the info because we were going to build it. So I needed to have like a, everything I said, it has to be perfect. So what's in the book? Oh, I could show it to you. Show it. That should be another product. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. It will be. It will be. It catches a million things and it addresses the parts, the components, how they looked inside and how we would have to build it if we had to create because, by the way, because he had been inside, my reasoning at the very beginning was if I have a 13 to 14 inch diameter craft and you want to see the inside, we're going to have to take it apart. Right. Well, that was part of how do I have consumers take it apart? That was it, you know, how's it going to come together easily and not, you know, so there was a lot that went into that to create something that was beautiful as a product and what kind of materials we would use and, and so on. And that was happening in a 3D software. So I started building the craft, obviously. And in the, in the software, we started building it in real size. We weren't building it in a 13 inch or 14 inch diameter. It was 52 and 52.9 feet in diameter, which was real size. And that was the beginning of a complete shift in my life where the way I was seeing it on screen, we started off in Blender with just a craft, Blender and open source 3D program. Absolutely. And then we said, why don't we, why don't we make the box look like the interior of the hanger? You know, if there's going to be this flying saucer, we're going to put it in a collector box, make it look like the hanger. Of course. This is a great product idea. Right. So I'm like, let's make that happen. And so we had to build a hanger. And that was start, and then another part of my team started doing that in Unreal Engine or at the time. Ooh. 4.7. Exactly. That, the Blender file was the craft, the Unreal Engine file was the hanger. And then we started expanding on the hanger. Bob was like, OK, well, I'll tell you how that is. So it looks real. And we started asking a billion questions. And as we got further and further into this, we would constantly, all of us at the team in my team, we have questions for Bob. You know, so we had a booklet and we would write, it's a question for Bob. Go write it. And you got to ask him, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, we need to know this. So I had 178 questions for Bob. So I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to do this on Zoom. I called him. I said, Bob, why don't I just come out there? We knocked this out of the park in a day, worst case, two days. You can answer everything. And in person, it's always better in person because you can have something in your hands and go like, you know, what are the questions like on that list? Well, I could send it to you. No, I mean, for people listening, just examples. Well, for instance, okay, so inside the craft, there's an archway superstructure. It's a, there's inside, it looks like archways, right? Well, the thickness of the archway, oh, that's pretty specific. Yeah. So how thick do you think the archway is? And I remember, the reason why I bring it up is I said, look, that archway superstructure, you know, how thick do you think it was? I remember him saying it's about two inches. And what's really important, he said, it was hollow. Yeah. Not mentioned that. No. It was hollow. It was hollow. And I found that to be extremely important. Yeah. Because I thought, oh, I wrote that down. I go, it was hollow. He goes, oh, yeah. It was hollow. I touched it on the exit because when he was, when he crawled into the craft, the archway is all around. So you have them right next to you, or the, let's say the surface of them. So I mean, like I would have done, I would have, you know, of course, we're going to do that. Of course. You're sending me inside of flying saucer. I am. I might lick the thing. You know, right. I guess I want to understand what am I, what am I touching here? So, so basically, he said they were hollow. I found that to be very interesting. Another one was, where was the flag? Was it the reverse flag? Was it on the right or on the left? Because we had determined there was a sticker on the craft that was a flag. An American flag on the craft. And I, I don't remember him saying right or left at that, right, right or left, were we putting it, right? So it was on the left. Okay. There was a, there was a million, there was a whole bunch of questions like that. And you would, you'd be surprised. I mean, you could go through all the details and still have, you know, a million question, which by the way, those were only the first 178 questions, there's a lot more that followed that. There's a lot of OCD in your personality. Yes. You're a bit of maniac. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. And that's actually what Bob said. Bob literally, I was putting everything away and he goes, you know, I have never met anybody so detailed like you are. And I looked at him and I said, well, I hope that's a compliment because I'm trying to make sure, I'm trying to make sure I don't miss anything here. He goes, no, no, no, he goes, it's, it's very good. He goes, I'm just impressed with how detailed you are. And I said, I'm going to be, if, if this is true, I, I said, this is true. I'm about to build an ET object. I got to make sure I do it right. Otherwise, what am I doing? So it got to do it right. And so that was my, that's the way I look at things. And so that got us into, you know, really perfecting it mold, molding the seats into it or what we thought were the seats, the amplifiers, even the cut out amplifier. He said it had been cut with a plasma cutter. I couldn't remember the details. I had to ask him. And he says, it looked jagged. It looked like a, they didn't do that. They didn't do a clean job, which also I find amazing because I'm like, who the hell does that? You know, but, but that's how it was. And the interior of the emitters, in fact, the emitters were something that I was very upset with myself for not having understood. He kept explaining them to me and I completely messed up the way I wrote down all my notes. So I built something completely wrong. And when he saw them, he goes, what are those? I said, the emitters. He goes, that's completely wrong. I said, really? And he goes, yeah, what the hell? So we had to rebuild the emitters because that was not, I, I, I was my fault. Those are the big two, the big two, yeah, the big, yeah, the, the, the, what did you build instead? They're, they're hollow on the inside. Yes. I didn't think they were hollow. Oh, I thought they were full. Okay. Okay. They're solid copper with these plates on them. And he's like, what is that? I said, he goes, no, he goes, they're just plates on the, on the pyramid, like on the, on, on the surface, but it's hollow inside and that there's, you don't see it in the film. But imagine a four, two, two foot diameter, four foot trash can. There's a pipe. It's the one of the waveguides that goes into it because it allows it to swivel and all that. But what I found really interesting is, and he had even mentioned it in the past. And I, and I, I remember he said that waveguide goes into the emitter and protrudes about, I don't know, about a foot into the emitter. And I remember thinking, why, why would it do that? And it makes perfect sense. Why? Because when the, I don't have anything that's cylindrical here, but if, imagine a cylinder, this is suspended by a pipe on the, on the ceiling of the bottom level. And the cylinder can swivel at a 90 degree, the top of the craft, the top of the ceiling. And this is here, and there's like a pipe holding it. As soon as it swivels, the pipe's not long enough for it to swivel at 90 degrees, it's going to hit the top, right? It needs to extend down and swivel. And that piece inside is designed for it to do that. That's an important detail. detail, but he never said it did that. He said, that's what I saw. Right. You had to work out to make that. And that made sense to us. And we went, oh my God. Look at that. It makes sense. Because you need that extra to do that movement. Did he pre plan, you know, some people like he's still, you're still fraud. Did he pre plan that? Is that like some, is that an Easter egg you put in there for us to figure out? Like I never felt like that. In any times I spoke to him, this was really something that caught my attention to. I was like, yeah, that, that, that, that's not, that's not him making that up. He saw that. And that's how I built it. I think that even supports the story more because you're doing the structural engineering exactly those dots. Exactly. And then he, he sees that and goes, yeah, that's how it works. Yeah, because it would, it would do that. It makes perfect sense. Of course. You know, so I was like, okay, that's another, that's something that I thought was really interesting. Anyway. And so built, got to a point where the craft was built and now the entrance to the craft, the hatch, you see it in the film, right? You see, there's a, it lips to the bottom. Yes. It's like a note, right? Okay. That was a feat. Why? Because we didn't understand it. Like we weren't getting it perfectly for a while in the geometry of the craft. And it took, it took a few tries until he said that's it. So this is a three level craft. There's a bottom level. And that's the main level. Yeah, three minutes underneath. Correct. Then the three chairs. And then there's an upper level that he never saw that he never saw. Did he, could he speculate? What do you think was up there? He, well, he speculates, and it's in the film that he says, that's the part where you see these black, what look like, he says they look like port holes. Right. But they're not, but they're not. They're clearly not something for navigation. Yeah. He says they, they were a Vanta black. He called them Vanta black. I don't know if you're familiar with Vanta black. Vanta black is the blackest of blacks. Oh, yes. I've heard of that. Okay. It's so black. It's actually weird to look at. Exactly. He says they, they were, they look like Vanta black. They didn't look like they were a surface. They look like they were an infinity hole. Okay. So we had to make that in, in blender, you can, because you just remove all specular, you know, you remove all that, and you could do that. But it looks fake. If you do that in blender, it looks fake, which is one of the things that I'm kind of not happy with with my craft in blender is, yeah, it's not reflecting anything, but I'm not appreciating it as much as I, I'm crazy when it comes to detail. I'm like, I don't think the real thing looks like that, but that's as far as we could do it. And he said, he thinks it's perfect and I'm like, it could be better. But anyway. So, in regards to that, he says, they believed that it had something to do with the navigation or some type of sensor that lets the craft or whoever in the craft know where it is. So it's, it's basically reading and there's six of them. And it's reading where it's at. That's what he thought it was. They, they talked about it with Barry, his, his lab partner, but he says, I, I don't know. I, I never accessed it. I don't know what was up there. So he's very, very cautious to not speculate too much. That's what I love about Bob and his story. And I'm asked all the time who I think the most credible whistleblower is and it's always Bob Lazar because he's not afraid to say, I don't know. I didn't worry about it. I didn't, I don't know. And he, and a lot of times he would say, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's so many questions we had and he goes, I don't know, even, even the metal. He's like, you know, that's material science. I don't absolutely. It felt to look like this, but I don't know. We had a lot of, we spoke about the metal a lot and it had a lot of properties that were clearly giving us the impression that it's metal. But he said, again, Luigi, he says, it could have been ceramic. He goes, I don't know, but it felt metallic to me. Now, the part where the archway superstructure is hollow. Yeah. That's a tough one to do in ceramic because ceramic is a very strong material. You don't feel hollow on ceramic. That's right. So that to me gives me more, you know, credibility, belief that it's metal or a metal type of material. But it, it's also intelligent in my opinion, the craft, the material, the material is intelligent because we didn't, we're going to be doing. So in our film, we had to abbreviate things quite a bit to make it digestable for the audience. There's a lot of information that never made it in the film. And we are going to be releasing probably an hour and 20 or an hour, 30 minute documentary, mini Dock of ours, only on the craft. That's going to be successful as well because we, there are a lot of us that want to know about, was it layered? Were there waveguides? We have a lot of data that didn't make it in the film on the sport model. And I might, one of my things I want to do is make that Dock. It's going to be a, we're going to call it a mini Dock, if you will, but it's just about the craft. Yes. And it allows us also creatively to show it, however we want and not from the perspective of the story of Bob Lazar. So if I have to talk to you about the material of the craft, I'm now creative. I have liberty to show it to you. However, I want outside indoors outdoors. So that gives me the opportunity to really explain what it is that we worked on for, for, for that long. But in the center of the floor, first of all, the reactor sits in the middle of the, of the floor of the craft. There's an indentation. It fits perfectly there. There's this waveguide pipe that is three inches in diameter. It's not very, it's not very thick. And it, it tapers, you know, kind of opens up like that because it applies perfectly on top of the reactor. It's so low tech looking. It really is. But it looks like, it looks like a trumpet. Like exactly, exactly. It looks like a trumpet. And you pull it down. Now, what's really interesting. And this is part of the stuff that we talked about with Bob is when they, because it goes up and down. Okay, you can remove it off the reactor and you can apply it on the reactor. And the reactor is a power source. So this thing is basically channeling whatever the power source throughout the, the craft, which I believe the craft being a gigantic cavity, hollow superstructure. And it, it propagates this power gravity field or whatever other field it is within the, the, the craft and creates this bubble if you want to call tracks with a lot of, a lot of witnesses. In fact, Bob is in agreement with me. I was talking to him the other day while we were driving the car. I said, I'm convinced at 100% that the archway superstructure was also down in the lower level. It's not something he saw, but he says, I don't remember it because it was so dark. Right. I didn't see it. He goes, I wasn't paying attention to it because I was trying to figure out what those emitters were. He says, but I must agree it makes no sense that the craft superstructure is only on one side and not connected like this to the other side on the bottom. That's my personal opinion. I built the thing. So it always feels to me like, it had to have had it on the bottom. You're probably right. It's just logical sense to me. So, but he says, I agree. I just don't remember seeing it. And his job was to what try to replicate the propulsion technology of those emitters replicated with earth materials. And second, the first directive was to, excuse me, to replicate the propulsion system with earth materials. And the second directive was to disable it. How to disable it from a distance. Right. That's important too. That's important. Okay. So they had to, that was, those are primary directives. And essentially, you know, when, when you think about this, also this material, as they pulls up the wave guide, it's not telescopic like a normal antenna that we do. We go like this and it goes in it, you know, the, the, the base part is thicker and the, you know, it gets inside. It goes inside. It goes inside. It's not like that at all. He goes, you pull it up and it doesn't make any sound. It's not like you hear, it's completely silent. You pull it up and it just becomes shorter. It, it blends into the ceiling. It doesn't go through the roof right now. No, no, there's no hole where you see it go in. It's just blended into the ceiling of the main floor. So, you know, the, the bottom is tapered, so it goes on top of the reactor. The, the upper, I remember asking him, I go, do I have, do I leave a hole? He goes, no, no, no, it was blended. It was, it was all one piece. No seam. No seam. So he goes, we would pull it up and we didn't know where it was going. That can't work. That's exactly, that's exactly why that's an important feature. Yeah. Because now, and I want, I wanted to put it in the film, but I thought, if I do that, I'm going to need a very long segment here to explain this. Yes. And it's a kind of a, for, for the layman for people watching this for, to digest. That's a lot of technical stuff that I would have to get into. I'll cover that in, in the sport model version of the dock, because I want to cover it. But clearly, what is that? Right. What's happening there? He says, even when you pull it down, where's the material coming from? Because it is getting longer, but I can't tell where it's coming from. So he says, and, and I asked him, if you were to bring it down and not apply it on the reactor and push you know. Torcott thought he said oh it wouldn't move it wouldn't move it wouldn't move now think about that You know if we have something that is only three inches in diameter and hollow And I pull that down. I don't know four feet and I and I can't get it to move that's something really strong even if it's titanium You're gonna get a little bit of gonna get some yes then move I Find that really interesting. Yes, you know what I mean So those are little technical aspects of things that I found to be very Interest I have to build them obviously. You're not I have to build them You're not feeling the the physics of that But it's something that I I took into consideration as I was building this thing the only thing I I Don't I don't have is the upper level. I mean I the outside I have but I don't have the interiors Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how that works. Yeah So you're at Bob's Going through all your 187 questions Yeah, and then what happens from there? Oh, you're you're designing the box the hanger So we got so we finally get the box the hanger I actually just for fun what I had this was up It was just an idea I had on a weekend. I said, okay, here's the box I go people are gonna want to have more I go what I cannot what I could include in the box is a cardboard fold out That is the the hallway of the base. I could I could just do that for people who are a little bit more fanatical I could do this. So let me make the hallway so that that that talk about scope creep All right, right wow, so I Essentially said all right, Bob How about we build the whole thing the whole S for the whole that as I guess that the whole one day I just said, okay, that's it like why don't we do it in in it was gonna start in unreal ended and He says are you sure you want to do that? He goes, what are you gonna do with it? I said, I don't know yet. I don't know yet But I know I want to do it and he goes that's gonna cost I know I know I said I know I I I knew but I I had to do it because I'm like, you know historically or let's say in this timeline of our lives Bob Lazar is getting older. Yeah, and he's already in process of helping us design the interior of the hanger and like If I don't do this now What is this even gonna happen? It would never happen. You'll never have happened now So I said and Bob said well sure you want to do that said yeah if I invest because my money I said I'll do it if you but but on one condition You you stamp give it a stamp of approval. You have to help he says oh, I'll do it He goes you guys are doing great job. I'll do it. I said great We're doing it. So I called everybody had a meeting. It's okay guys. We're building the whole thing and so it was like They were like what you know, and I said yeah, yeah, so went back to see Bob Got a lot more information. I went my my went That co-director Christopher Matto got so much information He's really talented. He's very talented. He's he's not just talented. I think he's like a Michael Jordan of this this guy is Very good. Did he help you with the shot selection at photography? Oh, yeah I mean he and I were your films gorgeous. Thank you appreciate that and that's and a lot of that is also due to Chris Matto, I mean Christopher Matto is without a doubt He and I were almost attached to the hip for about a year in front of a computer We both gained weight at the same time staring at screens because that's exactly what it was and you know running to computers building Computers to render and all that's that I mean those insane sleeping at the studio making sure it wouldn't crash if they crashed You know getting it back to you know, where did it crash? What frame? What messed up? Why did it do that? You know, I feel this paid Yeah, you understand yeah, so anyway long story is we we started we we got to the unreal part But then we immediately dropped unreal engine because unreal for folks is a 3d at game engine game engine Yep, absolutely. It look it's great for video games. Mm-hmm. It's not made for what we were doing No, it's just not made for a word. No, it's just it cannot do what it's being Advertised certainly not at 4.7. Oh, it's no even at five even at five and with Nanite couldn't even at five. Oh, even Oh even with now Nanite was giving us so many errors. Yeah, I know so many That we were going bananas going. Okay, this is just a waste of I spent a lot I lost a lot of money because of unreal engine look they're great. They do great video games Good for them, but blender was definitely the way to go and when we transferred Everything over to blender Things first of all started looking better much faster quality went through the roof and And blender was evolving. Yes, it always is yeah, and so There's a lot of stuff we did our our our version of blender at our studio is it's like when you meet a guy who has like a Toyota Supra, but he has a one version. He has one of one He modified it his way our blender is fully modified to do what we wanted to do It must be as as a 3D artist myself. There are some shots where I went. How do he build a set for oh he this is VFX This looks very real. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely and that For for you that so because you understand this It's not just what it looks like. It's what you can render. That's right, right? Yeah Because you can make anything look beautiful, but now render it, right that make that happen all the different lights You needed okay. Yeah, there's a lot of computing power and so there's a lot of Under the hood technical stuff that has to happen in order for the render first of all to happen and not crash and Secondly in a timely manner where you can actually get your render out Because you have a hundred other renders to you know, and you you have X amount of computers Do you need this to happen? You can't just go like oh, yeah, it'll take four days. Well hold on For how many seconds? You know what I mean, so it the the technical aspect of What was accomplished internally for us to make it happen That will forever be what I'll I'll never forget that ever. I mean I we were we were Not sleeping to make that happen. I believe it's while we're talking technical. There's something that came up about which Light that wouldn't bounce so you spend a year trying to replicate the way light behaves on the craft inside the craft right but When you are designing the asset you you create the material absolutely Specularity, right normal math everything absolutely So did you I mean why was the light not working if you can control it was working it was working Oh, it's it's the light is working. Yes. It's it's not it wasn't a Defected nothing was defective. It was the way the interior of the craft is made So now you're in the main floor and always remember It's very low gets you know, it's a disc right so it's got this You can only stand kind of in the in a small section in the middle and then after that you got to start crouching down and and walking or Crawling whatever if you if you're in the actual space which we went with VR eventually but which is very cool And I can't wait for the world to see that but the way the materials may we used this Unpa- let to make it that you know Fast to explain unpolished stainless steel. There's a little bit of grit to it a little bit of dust to it because it gives it you know that that real look and all that You put any light in there because you know you could put any lights. Yeah blender You can do a billion versions of lights. Okay. Yeah, we could put any lights. Oh, it's beautiful. It's great. All right. Okay, it's lit Okay, but that's not how it was you know because it's it's it's you're inside the craft That's not how they were lighting it you could light it you could put fake lights in there and you light the thing I can make it super beautifully lit, but that's not how he saw it and Bob saying that cuz you're what he said There were a couple of industrial lights in there the only thing they had in there was a big industrial tripod lights two of them one behind the amplifier that's behind the middle seat and One on the left of the amplifier to the left of the middle seat Both of them are there they're they're they're they're they're they're rod is low because they're the it's not a high ceiling Right, so they're lower. They're not like pushed up. You know you could there's a telescoping thing and they're the the light Heads are pointed up and there's four halogen lights when you can replicate that right down to the ball That but the light wasn't matching so you you get that down to the bulb to the luminosity to all all that stuff, right? Mm-hmm turn them on and it gives you you you match them you go online you look at these halogen lights You match the the setting in blender. You could do that. Sure. So you put them on turn them on. They're on They're a hundred percent both of them are on. So you have eight lights. Yep, right? You can't see anything It's like you could see it Reflecting brightly where it's at, right, but it's not transmitting light. It's not lighting the room And I'm like it's and you know you have to consider 52 and a half feet. It's kind of big anyway But you would think it should be thrown light everywhere. It doesn't and Bob says no it was dark darker than that He kept saying it was very dark in there and I And I kept saying okay, but what what could she do was he always repeated is very dark in there is it is hired to see and I'm like but there's two in industrial life. Like how is this not bright? So when they're on, I'll never forget. We had our camera in there. We used blackmagic 6K cameras to film most of the time. So we brought the camera in with the settings on how we would put our settings. And I would tell Chris, are we in the camera? Yeah. Turn on lights. They're on. I can't see shit. And he's like, I know, the lights are on. I'm like, okay, well, there's no way. So the amount of times that we were like, there's got to be a toggle that we didn't like, we're missing something. Something's not happening here. So we would turn off those lights, bring in other lights. Okay, we could see everything. Okay, that's weird. We would, what we did, and this actually, we did this for a while. I never explained this. I can explain this 'cause you can appreciate it. We took out the halogen and we put other lights in there. Like you could put box lights. So we took four little box lights, place them there, wind them up, blasted them. Even those weren't powerful enough. And I'm like, what the hell is up with this thing? But if you take the lights, go in a different angle and blast them. Well, it'll light the scene. So there are shots in our film where we did obviously create cinematic lighting shots. You don't know it. We know it, but it wasn't the natural light. But you cannot see properly in that craft if you only have the eight halogen lights pointed up, which is exactly what Bob Lazar said. It was very dark in there. And if we think of that, and we're gonna think of, here's a man who's gonna try to, let's say, let's assume he's lying. Okay, he's making it up. Okay, he's making it this up, fine. He's telling us that there are two industrial tripods with four bright halogen lights in there. Why would his brain as a liar think that's not enough? Think about that logically. It's a weird detail. It's too strange that he knew that it would be dark in there, because you have to build the thing to don't. Right. That's it. Is that material just drinking in the light? It really is. I will gladly send you the craft. Okay. If you want it. Okay, don't share it, but I'll send you the file. Play around with it. I'll do it yourself, because when you said that, I'm like, no, man, that's not how materials work. Yeah, but play around with it yourself. I believe it. Go in there, turn them on. And you'll be like, oh shit, it's dark in there. And you're gonna go like, it's, bring a camera in there, try to film something. We're gonna do it. So now in the store, you're starting to build all of us for us. It's still a product at this point. Oh yeah, so yeah. So at a certain point, we were like, it would be so cool if Bob narrated this or Bob narrated that. If what if Bob narrated, you know, and we're like, I'd narrate a product. Well, that's, again, I didn't know where this was going. I kind of, I literally thought, I'm, I am spending a fortune here building this thing. I don't really know what I'm gonna do with it. What about your team? They were just excited, they were just excited that I was giving them a green light. Let's do it. They were just like, this is cool. Like a work, because I was just giving them full go with the best we could do. And they're like, okay, right? And eventually Bob was our start seeing some stuff. I did, he would always wanted to see final scenes. I never showed him anything that was really, but I would give him snippets. And he was like, oh my god. Why did you withhold that? Because I wanted it to be finished in some cases. I wanted it, I wanted certain things to be complete for him to see them. There was a lot of times that they weren't complete. Like, for instance, the ceiling of the hallway was not complete. And it would, it would not look good. I'm kind of like, I was like, I was showing things that were, I needed him to correct me on. But I knew that the ceiling was not complete properly. And I'm like, I don't want to show him with this crappy ceiling. I got to finish that. I had to put pipes in there. So there was certain things that I, he was like, show me. I'm like, not yet. I want to show it to you when it's done. When things were getting, let's say, 85% done, that's when I started showing. Did you go back to your David Jacobs training at all and think, were you worried about implanting details? Absolutely, because this is a great way to do it. Absolutely, I, what was, what was really important though is that he corrected himself in a couple of things when we brought him in initially in the hanger and in the lab. The only places where he said, oh yeah, there was that was in the hanger in the lab. He was there a lot. In, in the lab, he had forgotten to mention that there was a door that led right into that, excuse me, that read, that led right into the hanger. Ah, okay. It was never mentioned. I put a cabinet there and he goes, there was no cabinet there. And I said, well, okay, I'll just move the cabinet. And he goes, no, there was a door there. And I said, what do you mean there was a door there? He goes, isn't that going right into the hanger? And I said, yeah, he goes, yeah, there was a door there. That's really interesting because when you're setting up the 3D environment, it starts to fall in place. Exactly, exactly. So even the desks, at a certain point, yet he and Barry have two desks pointed at each other. I put them in the wrong place. First thing he did is the desks are, no, the desks are over there. But he immediately pointed, the desks were not there, they were over there. Like, he pointed it right away. And I'm like, oh, okay, and then made more sense. Sure. Okay, he goes, yeah. And the electrical panel was on the left there. Oh, okay, you know, immediately when I'm like, boom. I put, at a certain point, I had a sink in there. He looked at it, he goes, okay, you could leave that one. I said, why? He goes, it wasn't exactly like that, but it's fine. You know, kind of, right. And I'm like, well, what did it look like? Right, you know? He's like, no, some stuff he didn't even want to tell me 'cause he knew I'm insane. So he's like, you're gonna waste another three weeks on just the same, it's not important. So I'm like, okay. So we basically got him to correct us on that door. And in the hanger, the large adjacent doors that separate the hangers have normal sized doors in them. 'Cause when the big adjacent doors are closed, you can go in the adjacent hanger just through a normal door in the big door. And there was a time, I mentioned this recently, Bob Lazar was on stage with Georgian app in Arizona, and Bob had drawn on a white board, these little doors, and people were saying, he's full of shit. There's no way he could have seen and the other hangers without those doors. And I remember going like, they're kind of right. There's no way to have seen all the way down just through these little doors. True. They were right, that was a good point. I didn't have an answer for it. So I'm like, I wonder what that's all about. Anyway, as soon as he saw the door, he goes, no, there's little doors in those doors. The door, he goes, but there's a door there. There's a door in the door. And we validated it. We actually also, by the way, had consultants that helped us that actually worked at Area 51 in hangers. By the way, oh yeah. Oh yeah. So there were people that consulted with us and said, oh, you got it, that's how it was. They even showed us how the X beams were in the hangers, and they said, that's exactly it. Were these special projects guys, or only one was not that useful? Not UFO stuff, but aerospace engineers. Sure. That worked out there. Make planes there too. Absolutely. Then they confirmed, yeah, they helped us with the floor grill where the water goes in. We have a lot of experts that, because Bob, by the way, when it came to, Bob, where was the grill on the ground? He goes, I don't know. He goes, I wasn't looking for that. Right. I mean, that makes sense too. So I needed a consultant to help me, you know, 'cause I asked him. I said, do you think the beams were like that? He goes, probably, he goes, I wasn't paying attention to the beams. Absolutely. Now, S4 is built inside of a hill, are you? Are you building the landscape as well? Oh, we built the whole landscape. Absolutely. When we have, we have so-- That's what a project. Oh my God. It's huge, it's a huge project. Is this a film yet? Or you're still just building stuff? Oh no, we were a film. We were half a film, not even a half a film. We were a quarter of a film when we completed the Papus Lake geometry, but we hadn't done the Papus mountain range. So-- But you decided we were gonna make a movie? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had decided at that point. Well, that's when I spoke to Bob Lazar, and I said, Bob, how about we turn this into a documentary about what happened to you at S4? What would make you think of that? Because when we would bring the cameras inside the scene, it was just too perfect. It looks too good. And I thought, my God, I think I could bring people back here. You know, it started to really dawn on me like, this is really good. And I'm like, but it wouldn't be of any use to people if I explain it. That's what I kept saying, you know, who's gonna want to listen to me? Oh, you know, I made it like this. Nobody cares about me. I said, if Bob explains this story, I think that's gonna go a long way. In fact, I said, this is no longer, in my opinion, created for entertainment. This is almost created as a historical document, because if I have the guy who saw it, and he's correcting me, and we have a visual historical document, that's actually interesting, because it's a place we can't go to. What happens if one day, Bob Lazar gets debunked? What does that mean for your historical document? - I find that to be, many times we said that to each other, what if all this turns out not to be true? And we're looking at each other, and we go, it'll be one hell of a sci-fi thing, though. 'Cause we basically laugh and say, I don't think it's gonna get debunked, but if ever it does, which I doubt, it's still a cool project that was built from somebody's memory or story and made sense, 100%, right? I don't think it is. I really don't, and Bob says it all the time. He goes, you know what? He goes, whether people believe my story or not, your film is so beautiful. He says that to me. He says, it's so beautiful to watch that it's a fun thing to look at. It really is. So I said, at least I've accomplished that part of the task. I clearly don't want it to just be that. I want it to, you know, people to get a, I wanted part of my hope was, if there are so many people out there who really don't believe this story and have a lot of arguments, which I understand. I read all of them. I read all of them. In fact, after my film came out, boy that I read a lot of them, okay? But I will say a lot of them forget the accusations of Bob Lizard having married a woman that before he even went to Los Alamos, they're talking about stuff that happened to him a decade before he even worked at Los Alamos. It's like, okay, whatever. You should look into my life. I was a real not job when I was younger. So it's like, okay, so, but if we're gonna look at this story, we need to have, it's like a historical piece of what happened to him, okay? This is an opportunity to look at the data and say, instead of attacking points that are wrong, that your starting point is wrong. You're actually starting, your starting point is wrong. Start, this is at least accurate. You don't believe it, fine, but start from here. Start here, totally agree. Big shout out to Veronica, who's my sister, who has been a godsend because she handled everything while we were making this film. So she's like the invisible force behind us that's handling everything, making sure everybody's paid and things are happening, okay? And when Jean sent us the map and we found all that, she just quietly said, no, there's gotta be more to this. There's no way they hit a road and that there's no other evidence to it. So she found that map and that is in my opinion, the 1941 map is undeniably evidence that there's something there. - Yes. - It's from the government. It's not from a picture, it's from the government. So it's there. - It's there. - She also found the edteller video as well. - Vanessa did. - Oh, Vanessa did. So Vanessa on my team, she was handling the vetting the archival footage that we use is that we allowed, is it copyrighted, there's a lot of stuff that we never even put in the film that we spent months in vetting and all that stuff. And there was suddenly, she contacted the University of California, and I can remember which one anyway. And they had the edteller tape from 1982 when he was at Los Alamos. And she contacted them saying is that the actual tape and they contacted sent a picture of the tape and a picture of a file folder that was on the same shelf, on this metal shelf in the archives, and they said it's a pneumatic tape and it has not played since that day. It's been sitting there since 1982, June 28th, July 28th, I think, or June 28th. I can't remember now, 1982. We're like, you're kidding. And we said, are we allowed to, they said we could digitize it for you, there's a cost to doing that, it's a couple of hundred dollars. I immediately said, send them the money. - Yes. - Yeah, like I go, go. - Yes. - And so she says, okay. And she goes, if you pay an extra hundred dollars, they'll do it faster. Pay an extra hundred dollars, like just go. And I said, ask them if we could use it, right? And they came back and they said, good news. It's public domain. You're allowed to use it, you know, just credit us. And I said, absolutely. I couldn't wait to see it. So they digitized it, sent it to us. And they digitized pictures of the file folder and it's Edward Teller's personal notes and personal agenda of those days. And I have all that. And it's like him going to Los Alamos National Labs, then he was flying to somewhere else to have another conference and it's at Teller. I watch the whole thing. I mean, it's a lot about the weapons and bombs and all that but it's extremely interesting. - I bet. - It's available. It's gonna be available on our, we are not alone channel. We are not alone.com channel. And there's the whole thing is gonna be put out there because it's cool, it's just, and in that crowd, they never had a camera pointed at the crowd. The camera was from behind. So you're only seeing a portion of the crowd and that Teller on the, there's actually two cameras. There wasn't a third camera, pointed the other way because if it would have been, we would have seen bottles are. - Yeah, which is a really cool thing. - For sure he was there. You mentioned something, almost in passing, I don't think I'd ever follow it up on it. You received legal threats during this process. What, from who? - From my bank. - From your bank. I had problem, we had a lot of problems over time. Things that were very weird. I'm not gonna get in all of them because, you know, they're gonna, I'm still, we put a lot of our money into it. I put a lot of money in seven figures to make this thing happen. - Why anyone banks in Canada is beyond me. - I can tell you that it's a very toxic and very, I would almost say, abusive system in Canada. And the way that we were attacked by our bank was extremely aggressive and unwarranted. - How did they? - They made it look like they had no idea we were making a film on Bob Lazar. And when they were absolutely aware that we were making a film on Bob Lazar because in Quebec, in the province of Quebec, where we live and where our studio is, if you produce a VR experience, which we did simultaneously produce, 'cause the environment is to explore with a VR anyway. - And you're making that publicly available. - It's gonna be available later this year. Absolutely, it's gonna be a different product and you're gonna be able to go and visit S4. If you do that, you are eligible to receive text credits for the work that you're, the people that you have and all that, which is a great perk in Quebec, by the way, and that's why a lot of video game companies are based in Quebec because of the fiscal perks. So, I didn't even know that and I thought, this is great, but I had to get accredited first by the government. And in order for me to get accredited, I need to get audited. - Oh, so I got audited and I passed. - Okay. - And I was like, this is great. I had nothing to hide. And they said, you've got it. You have your attest est, the only ones they say, which is a click of document that says, you are now accredited by the government to receive if you're eligible for credits, then you can get them. The bank helped, so the bank got involved. They were so impressed with what we were doing that they brought a committee to the office, the VP of the bank was there. Wait, I got goose bumps, company Montreal doing this. Area 51, this is incredible. Whatever gonna help you out. So, they helped us through and got us a consulting firm to help us facilitate the credits, which was great. I said, I don't have time to do it anyway. And the bank was going to fund the credits because when you get approved and the government says, okay, we'll send you $250, $300,000, whatever it is, they don't send you right away. It's 18 months, right? So, it's not like, oh great, I'm gonna get the money right away. The bank knows this and it's an opportunity for them. Because the bank say, we'll front you the money and we'll charge you interest. And when you get it, it's guaranteed money to us. You pay us the money. So, I thought, all right, I'll go ahead. Why not? I mean, it's a lot of my, I was eligible for a couple hundred thousand dollars. I'm like, go ahead, send it to me. The last day that we had, it was constant communication. I mean, this was the correspondence where these guys was constant. All of a sudden, they sent me up. An email, you got to send this last document. I did, sent it, done, beautiful. And they kept saying, come on, Luigi, hurry up. We want to release the fun. I said great. Send them the thing, radio silence. Now, I've never had a problem in my life with banks. This all of a sudden happens. They call and they say, "I'm not getting any answers." So all of a sudden I go, "Let me call, put the girl on speaker." So everybody, by the way, our studio is all open. We don't have separate rooms, so everybody hears everything. So I've decided it's been years. I'm like, "Our business is completely transparent." This is how it works. You'll know what's going on here. I make more money than you. I tell everybody. That's just the way it is. Anyway, she answers the call and she's stuttering. I can't help you anymore. I'm sorry. Bye. This is someone you had a relationship with. We were on the phone almost every day. So anyway, long story short, I got a call that they were going to allocate two new people to our account. They allocate two new people to our account. We're going to ask you and your mom to come on a Zoom call. My mother's owner of the company with me. It's family business. So she has absolutely no idea what we do. She's just mom. She's been with me and my sister. She's helped out all the time. But if my sister and I ask her to come in the office and help out, she's going to go like, "I already want me to do file. I can file stuff for you." But other than that, you know, I know a lot of Italian businesses with the silent part. I get it. So it's mom. So I said, "Okay, my mom, we're fine. We get it on this call." And it's two attorneys for the bank. Oh, no. And they say, "Tell us about your project with these UFOs." And I said, "Well, you guys know about it. What do you want me to tell you?" Well, tell us about that. And I said, "You guys know about it. What do you want me to tell you?" It's a long story. We've been talking to you guys for over a year. What part do you want me to tell you? That's a pretty broad question. I thought we were getting into specifics. So we had utilized a portion of our line of credit, which was not even that much, to keep operating because we're about to launch the film. Because you're using all your own money. All our own money. It's depleting. Of course. Exactly. So, yeah, by the way, to those of you who call me a grifter, that's a really bad way of grifting. Right. It's going broke. Yeah, it's going broke. That's a bad grifting move. So I was in a position. I said, "You guys know we're using. " I said, "We've been using the line of credit because of this." But they knew they kept telling us we want to give you more. That's why with these credits from the government, we can give you more. Great. She says, "Well, I'm letting you know that I'm not going to name the bank, but they were royal paying in the asses." Yeah. Okay. I got it. That bank said, "We are no longer supporting you, and unless you pass back what you always were going to shut you down." So the line of credit done? Oh, yeah. Pay back. And then I got a paper, a court order from them. We had to get the polls in court. A whole thing about what is this UFO project? It kept calling it the project of the UFO project, which I found to be very suspicious because I'm like, "I have other clients." It was very specific to this. I have a ideal with the Montreal Transit Commission. I have other clients. Government clients. Well, one of them is a government. Right. Absolutely. It's government. And your business is 30 years old? 50, close 15. Okay. I've been 25 years, but this company is close 15. Right. I've been here. Okay. And I mean, I'm completely clean. I got audited. Right. So they say, a side note, by the way, when this happened, this is a little side note. I'm going to get back to what happened on the court document. I call my lawyer, and I'm like, "Dude, I'm in trouble here. I don't know what the fuck is going on." And he, I, a kid, you know, he said, "What did you do?" And I said, "What do you mean, what did I do?" I didn't do anything. What are you talking about? He says, "Louigi, you know, you're Italian." Oh, come on. I swear to you. I swear to you. He, I, he says, "You know, did you send money to somebody?" I said, "Dude, if you say that again, we don't have a relationship." No. I said, "That is such a, I said that really sucks that you said that." Because why? Because I'm Italian. I'm, what? I'm part of some criminal activity or something? I mean, my family has a history. I don't know. But I mean, that's not a, that's not, we're not, we're not criminals. It's just like, what are you talking about? No. So I actually had to, he says, because they usually would never do that unless you did something really bad. And I said, "I didn't." So that was a big deal. Yes. Finally, he says, "All right, fine, send me whatever." They sent me a quarter. In the court request, it's in French. I'll show it to you later. One of the main things they wanted from us is all communications between Motivo, my company, and Bob Lazar. No, no. Yeah. And that's when he, that's when he said, "All right, now I'm starting to suspect." Now, he goes, "I find this suspicious." He says, "Because they did not request anything related to your other clients. You're the projects that are going on with Motivo. You guys have other big, we make money with a lot of other people. Why only Bob Lazar?" Now, to all the naysayers out there, this actually happened. Okay? Why would this happen? And the reality is, I didn't want to bring it up. I'm bringing it up lightly, but the reality is, they were part of it for the longest time, really getting all my information because they want to help me. You, oh, do you think that maybe that was just-- I don't know. But they certainly made a good show out of it. Yeah. Because they sent a committee to my office. My team freaked out, by the way. Everybody was like, "What the fuck is going on?" There's nothing controversial about your film. I don't know. Bob has been telling his story for 30-30 years. Absolutely. Why is this an attack-- Now, you know, this caused problems even internally with my team at a certain point because it's like, "What did you do?" Obviously, I'm like looking at them, "Guys, I swear, I didn't do anything wrong." Because they're like, "Why are we getting attacked like this?" I said, "I do not know." It was until everybody saw they all went like, "Yeah, this is really weird." Because obviously, they're worried about their jobs or whatever, because I have to pay everybody. I mean, I have a response to it. A lot of the reasons why, you know, this was a stress thing for me, is I care about the people that work with course. I really do. And it hurts me that I hurt them. I put my sister-- my sister works with me. She was like, "What's going on?" You know, like, "She's got a little girl. She's got a little niece." And everybody's relying on us being successful. So that was a huge thing that I was feeling because I'm like, "Why is this happening?" I never had that happen to me in my life. Did you give them the correspondence? Let's just say that I made sure that I told-- I made sure to tell them that, yes, the walls in the lab were off-white and not white. The tiles were probably purchased in a commercial store and not made in some foreign land that the equipment looked new and not old. Things that were completely useless. Because what the hell-- what the hell are you talking about? That's all Bob and I talked about is building S4. Right. So what the fuck? What do you want? You know, what is that? What is that going to change in the whole-- So I told them, "Yeah, here's what we talked about." I sent them our email correspondence together because 99% of my correspondence with Bob Lazar was, "Hey, Bob, look at this. Was it on the right or on the left?" We put these on the right or on the left. Is it big enough? Is it too small? What colors are the doors wood? Are they metal? What else do you want me to talk about? Did they give you your line of credit back? Did they lay off? No. They did not. So you lost our line of credit? You cooperated. So I've sent a lot of money to my lawyer. So we owe them some money. I sent a lot of money to my lawyer. He has an interest. They know that our film was going to be launching soon. This was a huge risk for me financially because if I didn't make it, I really wouldn't have made it. The fact that the film began to sell really well was such a relief for everybody on my team and me. The first thing, one of my best friends, Julie, said to me, she says, "You saved your house." Did you? I did. I mean, day one, 4.9 out of five on Amazon. It's a hit. It's going to be huge. Did this save your business? Yes. We were number one most sold film in America on Amazon for four days. We end up being number two for two days. Number three for two days. And are still now number four in America. That's a big thing to say. When did you find out it was a hit? It was your first hit. It was Amazon who contacted my distributor and they contacted me. They said, "You guys are killing it. You beat Avatar and the housemaids numbers." It's a better film than those. Who's the first one you called? To tell? Yeah. This is a triumph. Who I called for? Yes. I was with Bob when I found out. You were? I was with him. And he was just like so relieved. He's been stressed for me for a long time. Oh my god, I can't, I hope you make your money back. I hope you make your money back. That's all he cared about by the way, he kept, I don't want anything. Him and Joy were like, we just want you to be okay. And I called my sister and she made me cry because she said, you fucking did it. You know, like she goes, I'm so glad. She goes, I'm so glad. I stayed there with you throughout the whole thing. When you said you were concerned that you put your sister at risk, what did you mean by that? - Financially, it's her job, you know what I mean? I didn't want to be responsible for that. I remember, I remember I was like, why is this happening to us? Like this not supposed to happen. And remember that we had money, but we had to operate. We had to get to the finish line. - Right. - So I could have paid the bank back, but I wouldn't have been able to finish what we were doing. And that was a big stress because I'm like, we're already in deep seven figures and a lot. So I'm like, we gotta finish this. So for a lot of people who were also wondering why we were delayed, there was some financial times that the finances were delaying us because we were getting attacked. And I had to protect ourself, I had to protect the company. I had people on, I have to say Christopher Matto and Veronica are fucking warriors. Christopher looked at me and he says, fuck them. He goes, we're gonna finish this. And he would sleep at the studio to make sure this would happen. Veronica said, I got, don't worry about me. Don't worry about the company, don't worry about anything. Don't even look at your emails, finish the film. And that's what we did. - How do you keep them motivated and comfortable for years and years without this going on? - Well, it was only the last year. So it was only a year the problems became big. They became real. And it's still a big risk. - You hold time. - It's a gigantic risk. It's probably the biggest risk I've ever taken. And it's affected me. I went through a lot during making the film. I had personal problems with the past relationship of mine, I had to treat a precancerous thing on my face that apparently I was getting face cap. Skin cancer, I lost my friend Emily, and then this thing with the bank happened. So there was a lot of things that happened. And Bob Lazar had five heart attacks in the process of us making this film. - Yeah, I saw that on Jesse's show. - And I was, and he said, I am worried about all this because of all these things happening to you. It was worrying him that it's just have something to do with me because he didn't want this to happen. So I was like, I don't want you to get sick over this, you know? But it was possibly the most incredibly stressful time of my life because I wanted to make sure that I remember saying this, I said to Bob, I went to see, this is one time, we were in the, we were still in, we were in, we were in trouble. And I looked at him and he says, what are you going to do? I said, imagine a thruster in the cockpit of an airplane. I said, I swear to God, I will break the fucking plane, but it's not going, I'm not going to stop. I'm going to bend this fucking thing until it breaks, but I'm not stopping. And he goes, that's dangerous. I said, well, I'm too much into this right now. So I'm not going to stop. - So you were surprised when the attacks came? - I was surprised at the, I was very surprised with the bank. That was the one that surprised me the most because it was impossible for us to have predicted that could happen. It was like constant communication with them like everything was fine. It's not like I was doing something behind the bank's back. They were part of our daily process to get the tax credits. It was like, how is this even possible? So there's no way that was normal. - No, I don't think tax credits are worth giving up privacy like this. - You understand? So I was like, what the fuck is this? You guys, I remember even getting upset at the lawyer going like, but there's, I have a year's correspondence with you guys. She says that doesn't even, that doesn't matter anymore. What matters is right now, that's what she said to me. - Do you think they wanted to shut you down or just get information? - No, they told me they wanted to shut us down. They sent a bailiff with a 10 day order that if we didn't pay it back, they were taking over the company. - Oh no. - I had to get lawyer, I had to lawyer up. And there's a, the amount of fucking problems that caused because we didn't know what was going on. So the reality is, we did everything we were supposed to do. We're 100%, we got, again, I can't repeat it enough. We got audited, okay. And I'm not the Italian guy running some, I don't know what, I'm not, anybody could check that. - You're not a cash business up there. - I'm not a cash, we can't even accept cash anymore. It's like Canada, cash is useless now. But it's like, everything is clear, it's transparent. I mean, we are 100%, we have to be so transparent to not only the auditors, but to the consulting firm, getting us the credits from the government, they had to know what we were up to. So we're like, we're completely transparent here. You're not doing the next film in Canada, are you? I am not doing it this the way I am never using bank's money again. - You're here. - Okay, ever. - Good for you. - Anybody listening, working for a bank, fuck you, I'm not taking your money. - Yeah. - Good for you. - Sorry, I had to say that. - No, no, no, I don't apologize. - So, you know, going through your history, you've got this drone imaging company, merchandise. - Oh yeah, yeah. - All this other stuff. - You've found a lot of stuff on me. - I did, what's the unifying theory with how you build things? - You're a builder, you make stuff. - I went from, I still love to make tangible things, okay? So now that I'm in the intangible world because making a film, making this, for a guy who spent my whole career making tangible products and my biggest feat, my biggest project in my life is an intangible product at 51 years old. That was a challenge, okay? And to learn, as I went, hire the right people but regardless of hiring the right people, I need to know what's going on. Like, I need to understand what we're doing. So, even Christopher Matto goes, dude, you learned blender, fucking really fast. Like, it's not easy. - No, and here I am working on making intangible environments and tangible assets, filming, which is an intangible thing because it's film, right? It taught, I learned so much in the last four and a half years doing this that I'm very grateful that I've gotten to where I've gotten with all this. I'm so grateful to the people that I've worked with. I can't thank them enough. Amazing people who all stood by me and the team. I'm super grateful to Bob Lazar for letting me do this and everybody along George Nab, Gene Huff, Mario Santa Cruz, Joy Lazar, all amazing people. I will continue making tangible things but I will certainly make more intangible things. - I hope you do. I want to shift gears for just a couple of minutes before we close it out. - Did I read correctly that you were with Bob during one of the congressional hearings? - Yeah, I was with him on the first congressional hearing. - David Grush? - David Grush, yeah. - What did he think? - Was it Dave Grush? - Yeah, it was Dave Grush. Yeah, yeah, it was Dave Grush. Wait a second, trying to remember. Yes, yes, yes, it was, absolutely. Bob was actually invited so this is crazy. I said it a while ago. We had him plan to come to Montreal 'cause we had the green screen set up with a lot of green screen to do, okay? So he knew that. I said we have to interview you and I absolutely need you on the green screen. I can't do it without you being a Montreal. And this was in 2023 and he said I will, okay, fine. I'm gonna come and left his wife at home to take care of all the animals and all that. Ain't Montreal and we were set up and gets to my house. I have a big place downstairs. I have like a, it's almost like a private apartment. So whenever I have guests, they stay in my house and they have their own kitchen, everything. And I said, thank you so much for coming. I said, you know that's gonna be the congressional hearing and he goes, I know, I was invited to go. It's supposed to go. And I said, what do you mean? He goes, I already planned to come here with you to see you. So he skipped it. I said, you didn't do the congressional hearing so you can come and film with us. He goes, I already booked that with you. I wasn't gonna change that. I'm like, oh, Oh my God. - I'm kinda glad he did because I don't think he belongs with those stats. - He doesn't want to. He doesn't belong. And so-- - I don't trust that narrative. - Me neither, me neither by the way. So I'm standing there with him in my, or I have this counter at the kitchen and we're talking, having coffee or something. And I said, I can't believe you did that. He goes, Luigi, I wanna be part of this. This is my story. This is what, you're bringing my story to life. I thought, oh my God, Bob, this is so cool. So we went to the office the next day and he's, everybody's talking. And that was the day of. 'Cause the day before was the day before, the day of, we're filming on a green screen. And we take a break and everybody's got makeup on him and he's, 'cause we're trying to make us look better, you know? We got those things under our, you know those patches that you stick on your eyes to not have eye bags. I know him very well. Yeah, yeah. Bob and I were both wearing them so I could picture with that, it was funny. And I said to him, I said, did you hear what they just said? Congressional hearing and he goes, no, so we start going on the phone and Bob goes, well, I told you so and it was, I was like, I found that weird, I go, it's crazy that they're saying these things. He goes, I find that crazy too. He says, I said, what do you think? He goes, I don't want to, I don't want, he literally said, I don't want to be part of that. He goes, I don't, I don't, I'm nothing to do with that. He goes, if they want to, if they want to keep looking for this, they can, he says, but I don't believe we're going to get disclosure. I don't believe any of this stuff is going to come out. I totally agree when I'm asked about it. I say, I don't believe anyone from the intelligence community from Navy intelligence, any of that. I'm waiting for a technician to show up low level with the peace of men and as I'm saying that I realize I'm describing what Bob did in 1989. Absolutely. So disclosure is not coming. I do not think disclosure like we would want it is coming. I think we have to be very ready, we have to prepare ourselves for something that will appease a lot of people, but it will not tell us the real truth. I say it all the time, I use a very grotesque analogy. If you, if you let me, please, I always say if a guy is cheating on his wife and he has two mistresses. And she starts to suspect that he's cheating on her. And he calls his best friend and says, look, man, I'm going to tell her that you and I were at the strip club yesterday and you got to stick by the story with me. And then she goes, where were you last night? And he says, all right, fine, I smelled of that because there was a stripper dancing. And I admit it, you know, and my friend's going to vouch for me. And she'll go, she might not divorce him because it's just a strip club, but she doesn't know the real truth. That's pretty good analogy. That's a limited hangout exactly just enough. So I don't believe we're going to get the whole truth. I think we're going to get something just a piece. And I think it might not even be that good. Yeah, I forgot, maybe it was Jesse's show where you was saying, just send a helicopter over there and kick the dirt. And that's what I say. I'm saying, Luigi, they're not going to do that. I'm not going to do that. They're not going to go kick the dirt. I was even talking to Jeremy Corbyl and he's saying, you know, Congressman Burleson is apparently going to be going to all these sites. I said, look, OK, I want to see it. What are they going to show them? They're going to show them empty hangers. They're not going to go out to Papus. They're not going to go out there. All you got to do is go there. I don't even think it's a five minute helicopter ride to Papus from groom. I think it's like 12 miles or something. It's right there. You just have to go down and go. I mean, if there's something there, which I believe there is something there, because we could see it in the picture. And we have a map that shows there's something there. I kind of believed it until you showed me that map and blew my mind. There is obviously something there. It's under not. It's 100%. Show me the mind, then. Thank you. If it's just a mind, let's go in the mind. Yeah. And if you put hanger doors in the side of the hill, how would a guy who apparently everybody saying he's not a physicist, he's not a scientist, which, by the way, George Napp keeps saying he was the perfect guy for the job because he's easily discredible. They could have discredited and so easy. How would he know that? We didn't know that. The media didn't know that. The military. A lot of people in DOD didn't know that, because you have to have access to go there. In 1989, there was no Google. There was no Yahoo. There was no net scape. Let's go back old stuff, right? There was none of that stuff. We had to just analog, we had to analog our way into life and learn things with analog stuff. How could this dude know that at the most secret location in the world, at a specific hill, there's so many hills out there that there would be hanger doors hidden in that hill. And it's all made up. There's no way. There's no way. Come on. On Joe's show, he said, after 35 years, maybe I'm the one who made the mistake. Yeah. What was the context of that? What would that mean? Excuse me. It makes a good point. And I'll say this, I've had a lot of conversations about this, not only with Bob, but obviously, Bob and I have talked about this a lot. And I will say this, we have to be realistic about what we're talking about here and not overly excited about the topic as a whole. If, in fact, the United States or any government, whatever government, whatever military branch, intelligence, branch, or contractor, whatever we want to call them, whoever's in charge, if we are talking about objects that are technologically superior than our objects made by another civilization and that these objects are functional, they work. We don't know how, how, but we know they're working. And these objects allow for energy to almost-- I don't want to call it free energy. I don't like that word because it's possibly really wrong, but harness something from space and time that could be utilized as power and that they could turn out to be vehicles to travel with transportation. OK? That would completely obliterate the entire economic structure of human society in an instant, because if it comes out, the first thing is, who's going to tell us? Let's assume it's going to be a person in an authority of a position, a president, a prime minister, whoever. That person who's going to say it is going to be talking about a topic that is so fundamentally attached to our origins, because now you are talking about another civilization, it should almost in tandem be released with a religious connotation. Because if you don't have the church or the mosque or whatever associated to this type of disclosure, you're going to have a lot of people very confused in the world because a lot of human civilization has a connection to some religion. Tim Birchitz said, if we release this, a lot of people are going to be upset. So if that happens with a religious connection, now you have to have who's going to say it to us and which of the religious groups are going to be allowed to say it, because if they do, that means they validated it. It has to be validated. It's not just a politician who comes up there and says, this is what I want you to say with me on camera. No, if the Pope says it, that's different. That's different. So now there has to be validation. Validation implicates more people. More people implicate security parameters that could be breached. We have adversarial countries that are not always in line with the way we function. Clearly, something like this is happening, their spy networks are on alert. We could say whatever we want about how beautiful America and strong it is, well, we should never underestimate adversarial countries. No, they have a lot of money, a lot of resources. If suddenly we trip just for a second and they could take advantage of that, they will. They will, okay? So now you have all these people moving around, just to tell us, by the way, all this, just to tell us, there's nothing happening, just to let us know. I agree with everything you're saying. Now, once the process has been vetted and you have the Pope, let's say the Pope is involved, could be another, it could be the Pope and a rabbi whatever altogether. Let's all sink whom by eye and say it together. There's too many people involved. When they announce it to us, we as people have been so jaded with wrong information from the government and religious groups that we're not going to immediately accept it. Nope. We're going to need validation. How is that going to happen? Who will do that? How are we going to see validation be accepted by the people and without some uprising of some sort? So you are now going to have to implicate other steps with other people to validate this so that people go, okay, this is real. Regardless of the fact that you say we deserve to know that we are not alone in the universe, but you could keep the technology secret. Well, how do you do that? You can't do that. You can't do that. It's a catch 22. You have to show me or me to believe you and you also have to show me that I believe that it can be contained because I don't want China to have it. No, and they'd love to have it. You see where I'm going? Sure. Now, again, look at this is a mess. It's already a mess. In addition to that, there are people probably within the programs. I do believe they're still operating somehow. Those people, they're not, they're not, they don't come from a, they're not cloned. These are people that were born. They have families. They probably still have parents. They have kids, wives, houses, mortgages, friendships, and cousins, and things to lose. And things to lose. Now, they signed up and they're good at keeping their mouth shut, but they never signed up for somebody going, all right, it's over here. It's over here. Hey, George, come here. Like, let me show George, George, what have you been doing for the past? Because you have to do something like that for the world to believe it. Right. Because that's a, you're, that's a tall order for the people to just swallow. Oh, we're not alone in the universe and we have extraterrestrial or some type of nonhuman technology. You better show me. It's the only way they have been creating this disinformation, money, the waters campaign for a long time since 1947, it leaves. Absolutely. So now we're finally here and we're not going to believe it unless you show us all of it. Exactly. And they can't do that. They can't do that. It's a, it's a trap. It's a trap. And so, and I think the military industrial complex is just kind of cracking their knuckles and saying, we know that. It's, it's a trap. They're like, do you get it now? Yeah, exactly. And so that's where Bob said, maybe I am the asshole. Maybe this was supposed to be kept secret. Maybe I shouldn't have come forward and I, I, I didn't realize what I was doing. That's where that came from when he said that. Right. He says, maybe this should be kept secret because it could cause havoc. Who knows? He also said in an interview, those are, there's a, there's one of a, one of our fans, his name is Marcello Romano. He's probably listening and I love that kid. He's got a very, very bad thing that happened to him. A medical malpractice thing that gave him a horrible lifelong problem that is probably not going to make his life his young kid. And, and he reached out to us, says, I don't think I'm going to be here for a long time. I'd love to see the movie ahead of time, whatever. We got to meet him. Bob, Bob was so nice. This guy lives not a two hours away from Bob. Bob said, tell that kid that it's my birthday on Friday. And I'd, I'd rather be with him than with anybody else on my birthday. That kid, it was his dream to me. Bob is our. Goes out there and we have a conversation with him. And Bob opened up. It'll be on our channel. We'll eventually put that conversation out. And Bob said, there is no way to get this technology out to the world without immediately causing a major problem. He says, if they can replicate it, which is possibly not the case, by the way, they could use it. They don't know how to replicate it. So that's, that's another problem. That's a chimpanzee with a machine gun. Exactly. So what, what you're doing here is you're essentially removing all borders. If we could go anywhere anytime, however we want instantly, well, what do we care about? Border patrol and the borders, the countries and and cultures and all of a sudden, that doesn't matter. What about pandemics? If, if I go to Africa right now, and I go hang out, if I decide to go to Zimbabwe and go with some of the tribes out there and hang out with them for a month, and when I come back and the border guy in Canada goes, have you been in certain areas? Yes. Well, I'm going to get sealed off. They're going to make sure I don't have Ebola. They're going to make sure I don't have why? Well, it's because we don't have that in Canada. Right. Right. Well, all of a sudden that just goes away. I could go to Zimbabwe, hang out, get Dengue, go back home, give Dengue to a mosquito flies into this thing. We go out and everybody starts getting sick. What the hell tells us that can't happen or just show up at the Kremlin or Langley, and you could Bob said, you want to get all the gold in the world, go to Fort Knox, just take it and go away. Like what stops us from using this day? And, you know, my friend Chris Ramsey said to me, it's the best thing about the government. He says, if the government of, if the government in the United States invented a drop of water, the first thing they do is figure out how to, how to drown you in it. They'll turn it into a weapon. Yep. Absolutely. That's the reality. So if we don't, if we don't accept that and we want to, we want to pretend that's not reality and we want to live in the world where everybody says, well, I'm ready for it. No, I'm, you, you, no, you don't even know what you're talking about. We're not ready for it. I don't personally think I am because I mean, I'm, I've been so exposed to the topic for so long. Of course, I would love to know, but that's a selfish thing that I'm saying because what the hell am I really talking about? Because I don't even know what it is. Well, that's my last question is forget what Bob says. You've been doing the war for 35 years. What is really happening in the skies and the water? What do you think is going on? The right answer is I don't know. If I, if I gave you an answer, that means I haven't been doing this for 35 years. Do you have a favorite theory, time travel, alter-dimension? I don't think, I don't think that time traveling and extraterrestrials are a separate thing. Interesting. I think that there is no way to travel in a linear fashion in the universe. I don't believe that. I don't think that's, I think that's just the reality of space and time. There's nothing that travels faster than light in a linear direction. Based on that, we cannot reach Alpha Centauri for 30 years, something like that. Or is it four years at the speed of light? I can't remember. Yeah, it's 3.8, 3.9 years. Light years. Light years. So the thing is, that's not how we're going to travel. Whatever these objects can do, I call them objects because they're technological marvels. I call them that. They, they apparently have, and this is, again, not just based on what Bob Lazar says, but also some of the people that are coming out talking about these gravity generators, these having a controlling gravity, controlling some type of time warp. Gravity and time and space are interlocked. It's the same thing. It's exactly the same thing. As you were, we're essentially bending space and time. You're time traveling. In our, we're not time traveling, like Marty was time traveling in the Delorean time machine. Right. But we are, it is time travel. Because if you're manipulating gravity, if you're manipulating gravity, you are essentially manipulating time. You're not, you're not doing it to go like, let me go back and see if I can get, give myself the lottery numbers. That's, that's not what's happening. Right. So to me, it has to be extra terrestrial. I think, it has to be extra terrestrial. It's a, it's not, it's not just one species. I don't believe it's only one type that has, have been here. I do believe they have been here. I'm very high conviction they have. I can't prove it like everyone, like everyone can't prove it. But I can't prove it as much as the Pope can prove that Jesus walked on, on earth. That's fair enough. Okay. There's a lot of people in the world that believe that Jesus walked on water, multiplied bread, raised the dead, turned water into wine. And they believe it. There is absolutely nothing that supports it. But they believe it. And they'll, they'll die believing it. But yet there's up an enormous amount of evidence that there are objects in the sky that are producing, that are, they're doing things that are absolutely impossible in, with conventional aircrafts that we have, caught them on radar, caught them on multi systems. Yet we don't want to believe that that's possible, that they came from another planet. Because, because and I also spoke to some the most well-known scientists out there, because there's no way for them to come here. It's too far away. Yeah. With our type of technology. Without technology. Of course. Right. We couldn't have gone to the moon on a horse and carriage. That's true. So it's like, of course, I get it. But there's more. And we'll keep finding more. We only know five percent of physics. Exactly. So it's in there somewhere. We'll eventually, I hope we get a little bit of clarity, but my hope before we get clarity on the ETs and UFOs, going back to what my friend used to say, Emily, I hope we start paying attention more to us as a species and start becoming a better species to ourselves first. Then we'll worry about ET. That's going to be a long time coming. Luigi Vendetelli, I hope you become a full time filmmaker. It's amazing. S4 is amazing. Really. Excellent. Anything. You want to send them anywhere? Well, look, it's available, obviously, on Amazon Prime Video, under S4, the Bible is our story. And it's also available on WeAreNotAlone.com. All right. Going to be looking for the UFO and the book and all that stuff. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Hi, everybody. So that was Luigi Vendetelli, former national director of Mufan Canada, and the filmmaker behind S4, the Bob Lazar story. Bob Lazar's timeline holds up on specific checkable points. He went public through Journalist George Nap on Las Vegas TV in May 1989, describing a fuel source, element 115 that didn't exist yet. It was first synthesized in 2003, naming a then non-existent element in 1989 is a strange thing to get right if you didn't know about it. The 1941 map Luigi's team found is also real. It shows a road leading into the mountain at Papu Slake, exactly where Lazar placed S4. Maps from 1950 and 1952 don't show that road at all. And the Papu Slake map was edited eight days after Lazar went public. Luigi's light discovery that the craft's interior appeared to absorb rather than reflect halogen lighting, while ultra light absorbing materials are a real field of research. And whether this particular material behaves that way, I don't know, but it is scientifically possible. And here's what I keep coming back to. Emily Trim's last words to Luigi, they came down from the sky and landed in front of us and talked to us so that we could tell the world and nobody cared. Whatever happened at the Ariel School in Zobabwe in 1994, this is a woman who spent her life trying to communicate something shown to her as a child. She died believing no one listened and those images, the beings transmitted, war, suffering, the earth on fire, that seems to be happening all around us right now. I hope we do something about it. As for the Bobbler's Our Story is on Amazon Prime Video, I promise it's really good. Luigi's company is WeAreNotAlone.com for background on the foundational crash that started all of this, I covered Roswell front to back. The truth about Roswell, link down below. Until next time, be safe, be kind and know that you. I appreciate it. I feel the crack at it and got stuck inside my home with an K-Out truck.