The Basement: Dave Paulides | Missing 411 and Cases the Government Won't Let You See

Today, we're talking with David Pilitis. David spent almost 20 years in law enforcement, then two rangers knocked on his door at Yosemite, Off-Duty, and told him people were vatishing in the parks, and nobody would talk about it. "Yeah, you're adorable. Everything's about the money, my sweet stomach, you know what I mean?" "I don't think it's about the money." "America's national treasure pulls a lot better than America's per me to try and go with packing." We cover a lot of fun stuff in this one. The disappearances, big-foot DNA, UFOs, vatishings in the park, all kinds of great stuff. After I'll talk, I'll come back and break down what I could confirm, and what's still up for debate, and there's quite a bit. Let's go down to the basement. So Stacey Eris is, I read that her file was 2000 pages. Do I have that right? "I wish I knew." "I wonder how we know that, because I track that down, and that's what I read that her file is that thick, which is about 10 times more pages than a typical missing person." "I would find that hard to believe." "Would you really?" "I really would. I don't know what they could be doing. If he hasn't touched it in 40 years, I don't believe that." "Well, speculate on her case. Why hold it for 40 years? Could most of the people in that file are dead?" "Oh, 100 percent. I think that there's only a few few options. They lost it, or the investigation is so sloppy, they're embarrassed, or there's a suspect in the case, and they drop the ball on it." "It's one of it's two or three. I think anything that makes them look bad is what it is. It must be." So it's not even disputed that they don't release lists of missing people in the parks. It's not known disputes that they do not and they say they don't keep track of it, which that's the lie. So tell the story. I guess a good way to get into the story would be because we were just talking about George outside. George NAP reaches out to you and says, "They didn't even use your name in the article. I saw this on your show a few days ago. I'm like, "Dave's pissed today. What's going on?" So what happened? Substack? There was an article that was written in Substack. George sent it to me. It's a day of you won't believe this. It outlines the national parks, reluctance to release information on missing people and how much they wanted to charge. Huge article. My name is Don't Wear In It. And it's all your data and research. Yeah. I didn't come out the day after your Roganerova comes out. It did? What they didn't reach out to you? No. Why do you think they kept you out of that article? I have no idea. You tell me please. I don't know. Because in the big foot stuff I would say could be controversial, at least in my mind. 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Well, right away, they refuse, and they say, "No, your books don't count." I asked George the same thing. He says, "No, that's BS." He goes, "They're just just screwing with you." And he goes, "It's probably going to get worse." He was right. And then I said, "Okay, well." Because some of your books are self-published, but some are not. Some are through publishers. So, you are a published author. Exactly. Just so people who don't understand, I might as well clear this up right now, I could have all my books published by a big publishing house if I wanted to. Oh, yes, you could. But don't do that. Don't do it. Because you will get 12 to 18% of the book. Now, I don't make a lot of money off my books, but it doesn't take a whiz kid to go through the process and understand how to make your own book, go through your own website, and take 100% of those profits, which is why I do it. And I don't have the politics involved with a publishing house. I could say whatever I want in my books. Yeah, I bet there's publishers reaching out every week in your email like, "Hey, we can get these out there." Correct. No, you don't need any of that. No. So, I decided that I'm going to file a Freedom of Information Act under using all the formalities that are right and correct and ask them for a list of missing people. For every park. Every park. Their entire system. And six months later, they come back and they say, "Well, we don't have any lists of missing people." Six months? Six months. We don't have any lists of missing people. And we've already looked and spoke to the management. And if you wanted us to go out and gather that information, we will not acknowledge your exemption. But if you wanted to pay for it, if you want to list from all of the park system, it would be $1.4 million. And if you wanted it just from your somebody national park, that would be $34,000. And that's to justify what the work involved in compiling that list that they have? Correct. So, I was on Coast to Coast. I think I was on Norris Show and I talked about this. And within a couple days, I get a special agent from the park service that calls. And he said, "Dave, they are trying to screw you." Let me explain how this works. Each one of our regional offices, this has so many special agents, right? Every special agent has a handful of missing person case files in their desk. Here's what it would take, Dave. Each one of those special agents, maybe it takes them 10 minutes to type on a computer, each one of the four or five files, name, date, location, case number. And this is out of the six districts, six districts. Each special agent does that. And then in each office, they send that list to their special agent in charge in that office. Right. They cut and paste that on an Excel spreadsheet. Right. Dave, maybe we're talking an hour and a half, two hours max. Each one of those special agents in the six jurisdictions sends that to the front office. And how long is it going to take them to cut and paste? Dave, they're absolutely screwing you. That's how I found out about this. And they have the list anyway. This is all just words. They have it anyway. Because we know for a fact they keep track of who dies in the parks. 100%. They've been doing that since 1897. They know every number, but they don't track who disappears. No, I don't buy it. Well, they have lists of how much toilet paper is in your Semite National Park on an inventory list. They have a list on their website of every movie that was made in our national park. And George Naps said one day, Dave, they are absolutely lying. They have the list. They don't want you to have it. So you compiled your own list of you, Semite? Oh yeah, that really got me mad. Yeah. So for the next year and a half, I just did nothing, but focus on your Semite. Wrote a couple of different books that included your Semite cases. Yep. And guess what happened? They released a list of missing people from your Semite. Son of a gun. And what they told me, though, and how close to that list to your list was there. They missed a couple of really old cases that they probably don't want to even acknowledge, but you had everything. Oh yeah. Yeah. But it also told me that I missed in a lot of cases from the other parks. Obviously. Of course. But yeah. Because you can't do two years per. It is you assembly. The I don't want to say dangerous. That's not the right word. But what park swallows the most number of people? Is it you somebody? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because in looking at Olympia, I think it's a Olympian National Park, right? Olympic. Olympic. I think they're up to something like 500 deaths. So a few semites bigger. A lot of people have died in that park. Oh yeah. How long was your list of missing people from you, Semite? It was longer than theirs. I think it was approaching 70 80. Are you never really speculating on what you think is happening with these people? So there was a case I wrote this is how confusing it it gets. There was a woman that disappeared in your 70. And a national park service ranger took the report. And it was obvious that she was up on a hillside or on a cliff. And her body was found in a position at the bottom. That the wording used by the park service was she was launched. Meaning she didn't fall. She was launched. Now what they thought how she was launched was never made clear. But that was in their report. And it wasn't a missing person case. That's just a death case, right? So you can get that. And when I looked at that, it was never made clear how she ended up so far from the base of the cliff. Nobody ever said anything about it. It was just suspicious. And they're not going to speculate in the case file. No. They probably wish they never wrote launched. Yes. Is that a file that the public can get to or no? Yeah. Maybe we'll link to it. Well, since your latest your latest film is amazing. I watched it a few nights ago. Washington. It was 4-1 Washington. That's what we're calling it. Missing 4-1 Washington State National Park. So good. It's Hollywood slick. I hope you're proud of it. You should be. I want to talk about a couple of cases in the movie. Some of them are really interesting. Jacob Gray is one. This is very touching. But a few cases are great. But that area, everything in your film's focused around Mount Rainier, which is a very interesting history. So maybe you or together we can go back to December 10th 1946 Marine Corps transport planes can walk us through that story. Ever notice how every nicotine option makes you choose between looking dumb, smelling bad, or carrying around some weird gadget that needs charging every four hours. There's got to be a better way. That's why people are switching to nicknacks. Myself included. 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Kind of following each other up and they were going to land at an air force base outside of Seattle. And as they get nearer to the location, the weather started to get bad. Couple of the planes landed. Couple of them detoured went to other locations. One of the planes never made it and was lost. They didn't know where it was. They didn't have a clue. And from the date that it went missing until the date that they could even start searching was weeks because the weather stayed so bad. There were rumors that maybe it landed in the ocean. There were rumors that maybe it went into Idaho. They were really lost. And sometime after that, a couple months, business man's leaving Idaho. And he's flying in to do business in Washington. Ken Arnold. And as there was a reward for finding the transport. So Arnold is flying up and he says, "Hey, I'm just going to fly by a rainier because there were some rumors that maybe it crashed there." So as he's approaching rainier from Baker, he sees these three, four, five odd looking things fly by him. While Arnold is a super smart man. And he times when he sees these things going by two points, he goes by and does the math. And it's going at speeds that we have nothing in the world that goes that fast. And he described him and they don't really, they don't look like a common disk UFO. They look unusual. Almost like some planes that we have now. Yeah, they kind of look like a Delta wing. People have seen these pictures. Yeah. And he eventually lands, tells the story. And that was really the start of the modern day UFO era right there. Because Ken described it as moving like it was a saucer skipping cross water. Correct. So it was flying saucers. And that's how it was coined. Exactly. And then I'll start with rainier. He didn't find anything. But people eventually did, right? We know where that transport is now and the bodies. Correct. But you can't get to them. You hit a soft spot with me. It's okay. They walked there. Some national parks people walked in on it. And they confirmed that it had crashed there. And then we brought in some other researchers. And something odd happened there. Now, why that plane crashed on that mountain is a million dollar question. It's located very high up on a glacier. And the glacier moves. So why hasn't that plane moved over the decades further down? That's one of the questions. The other question is that one of the researchers we brought in, Dave, far from the plane, he found a propeller using Google Earth. And talking to experts, that propeller can't get there if the plane hit the glacier straight on at that location. And it's almost like there had to be a mid-air event with something for that propeller to land up so far away. Because you've got a debris field. I think there's almost three debris fields because didn't, didn't they have also find a fuselage at some point? Yes. Because you make a good point about the glacier. That's one of the fastest moving glaciers in the country. So every 50, 100 years, things are moving around. Those bodies of those servicemen are in there, they'll surface, they'll go back under. And we can't get up there to do anything about that. Well, when we were doing the film, the crew and I, we talked about what happened to no man left behind? Right. It's 32 men up there. Yeah. And if they were able to hike in, why couldn't they hike the people out? Or put them on sleds and bring them out? A lot of questions. Is this, does it feel like a mid-air collision to you? I'm not the expert on that, but from the people I heard, it sure seems like it hit something hit it in the air. You make a compelling case in the film. You know, there's a lot of stuff in there I hadn't heard before. I hadn't seen any of that footage before. I thought that plane was just gone. I didn't know that you found it. But then I started to get angry like, well, if we could see it on Google Earth, we got to go in there, or at least make an effort for those families. Because I agree, no man left behind. So my marineeer becomes the center of a lot of weird stuff. Flying saucers start there. You said you heard a little bit about the Morrie Island incident. That happened up there as well. This is a UFO, flies over, drops slag on a fisherman, and this is the first time we get the men in black appearing in Seattle. Then we've got a connection to CIA, JFK is a whole thing. But it all starts right here at Rainier. So what is it about that place? It's got all this weird stuff. Is it big food up there too? Or their orbs? So in our movie American Sasquatch Man, Mythre Monster, there's footage in there at the base of Rainier, of a woman that lives there that captured a big fight. It appears it's coming in and out of a portal. And she said tracks up there. This is right at the base of the park. I mean, probably within two miles. And there's been a series of Bigfoot sightings up there over the years. A lot of it related to orbs and other things. Her footage was good. And, you know, I'm not a big foot. I'm on the fence. I'm very skeptical of all the hoaxing, but her footage was good. And you did a great job in the film, by the way, of, and I said this to you before we went on the air, but I'll say now that there's a famous piece of footage. It was filmed in IMAX from the Canadian company or whatever. That shows it looks like a big foot behind a bunch of caribou and you guys can find this online. But Dave went and got the original print. So when it shows up on the film, I know it's hoax. And I go, oh, no, Dave, don't fall for this. But he got the original print and you can clearly see that it's, uh, whatever guy in a bike. Yeah. When you look at it under IMAX with the big frames, it's so much easier to see. You can see everything. It was, it's really stunning. Yeah. We were kind of wondering how the people were going to respond to that. How people were going to get mad. Uh, I think it's been all positive. I haven't heard anyone really come back and attack us about it. No, I mean, people are still out there saying it's real. Really? Yeah. Yeah. They email me. I don't know. I don't know how you could after watching that. It looks like a guy in a bike to me. Definitely. He's got a hat. He's got a backpack. It's totally clear. Is Mount Rainier one of the clusters that you're seeing? Oh, yeah. It is for sure. Rainier has so many. We ran out of time on that film. It's one of the longer films I've ever made. And we covered a lot of cases there, but they're near the end. We just kind of piled on and listed them. But they all kind of follow the same track. I mean, there, there's no sent trail by the dogs. There's no tracks found. Uh, there's no body. There's no backpack. There's, there's no anything. And it replicates itself time after time after time. 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Well, one morning he gets up real early, doesn't tell anybody just goes to take off and goes into the park. And he rides in. Nobody knows exactly why. But he's pretty far into the park. And he leaves his bike and disappears. Park Service is notified. His dad is a lot like me because if I had heard this, then it was my son I would have been there within a day. And his dad is there quickly. He's a warrior. Oh, yeah, he swam that river. Oh, yeah. And the park service tells his dad, oh, your son's the bike's right next door river. Oh, your your son's in the river. And he goes, what do you mean? And he goes, oh, we kind of hike the river and we saw some marks on the side of Iraq and. So Jacob's dad's thinking, hey, my son swims in 48 to 54 degree weather every day, just about in Santa Cruz. He, he lives through huge waves. He swims in ocean water. If he's in that river, he's just going to swim down a little bit and he's going to come out. Yes. And he's thinking, oh, this, these guys are lying to me. And he says, okay, I'll go in the river and I'll go, I'll follow it 10 miles down and I'll search every nook and cranny. But he, I don't believe he's in that way. River. He goes, no, he's dad. He's in the river. So the dad says, okay, gets a wetsuit. He goes in the river. And he for a couple days, he just swims it. He told me he found some dead animals and. Says, no, my son's not the river. It was he never was in that river. He goes, I don't know why they're lying to me. But Dave, I knew he wasn't in the river. Was this the case where they refused the helicopter? They refused helicopters, drones. Why? Canines. Because sometimes, I mean frequently they allow all that stuff. Why did Jacob not get the same treatment? So just a leader on in the film. I highlighted a case where a young lady disappeared. About eight air miles from Jacob on a different river. They had multiple helicopters, multiple drones, same park, same management. But for Jacob, no, for her, yes. Why? So Jacob's dad was at the premiere. And he he never knew about the squirrel. And he never knew how badly he was screwed over by the park service. And at the end, he came, gave me a big hug and goes, Dave, that was stellar. He goes, why is the park service lying like that? Why are they treating one case of a missing person one way and another 180 degrees different? And applying different rules to different cases. I don't get it. Make a long, long story short. Eventually, Jacob is found. No, not in a river. Way, way up a mountain. Up a mountain. Up a mountain. And this is what, 15, 16, 18 miles away? Oh, yeah. And a trail of clothes going to the top. And what I explained to his dad is that number one, how did he, why did his bike stay here? Why didn't he just keep riding the bike another four or five miles to the trailhead? Why did he leave it here? And then at the top of the mountain, they said that there was a trail of clothes. So if he was getting hypothermic, all he had to do was hike down the mountain because he'd get a lot warmer quick. But no, he kept going up way above treeline. Now hypothermic people sometimes take off their clothes. That's natural reaction. But they normally don't hike up a mountain 12 miles while they do that. No. And obviously your body will tell you when you start getting cold. What a really hypothermic case is there's no choice. You're confined, you're injured, you're in a valley. There's no way out. And you die that way. He had every option in the world different. So really what happened there, that's the real million dollar question. And if they would have brought in a helicopter and searched, or if they would have brought in a canine to hit that trailhead, they would have found them. Yeah. So I don't understand it at all. It was a touching part of the film. Didn't you give that bike shop owner a kindness award? So when Jacob was staying at his grandma's house, he took a ride one day and he was trying to fix up the bike for the trip across the US. And he rode into this man's cycle reshop, small shop. And he was explaining to this man what he was trying to do. And this is an older agent man. Very kind person. And he goes, Dave, I was listening to what he needed and things. And I could tell you didn't have a job. And he was kind of working off of savings. And I said, hey, I want to take the journey with you. So here you take these gloves. They fit you good. You use those. And then he put a new back tire on and he goes, no, you're going to roll on my back. tire and he goes, well, what are you? What are I owe you? No, no, no, no. This is on me. So every one of my videos I talk about kindness. And I said, you know, sometimes when you're at the store and a clerk's ringing you up, maybe she's having a really bad day or you go to the post office and you tend to take these people for advantage. Just take advantage of them and don't think what they're doing for us every day. Maybe smile, hey, how's your day going? What have you been up to? And talk about that every one of my videos. Something about all the time too. Something about kindness. It does. It's not that hard. Not that hard. And what this man did for him was unbelievable. When you really think about it, he would have never known it in a million years that he was going to be standing up in front of a thousand people with me giving him this award. He was crying, of course, when a nice moment. And I don't know. It was a sad, it was a very sad, sad encounter that the way it all ended, but yeah, he deserved that. Does he get hard on you sometimes just living in this world every day? You deal with nothing but pain. Sometimes it does. Sometimes it does. Every once in a while, I run across a case like that one struck my heart and reminded me my son. And yeah, I try not to let it get to me. I try to keep it as impersonal as possible, but every once in a while, these cases just hit at my core. I don't think you should be that impersonal though. Sometimes you really help these families just by talking to them, because it's like someone's finally listening. Oh, I get a lot of hate, hate mail. Why are you doing this? You know, you're making this publicity to just push your own podcast. And I think, you know, that of all the people I've ever talked to, I've ever written about, I've never had one person get mad at me. Don't read the comments. Don't read it. Just keep doing what you're doing. It's work and fine. There's one case that's really fascinated me. I don't know if it's the same park. Gilbert Gilman. Yeah. And I don't know how we tell the story to get all the information in. But maybe I'll let you get started. And I'll just, I'll add some color. But this is a very interesting case. Gilbert Gilman. So we'll go 2005. Underbird convertible pulls into the park. As an exchange with a ranger walks out to the park with his camera. And that's it. So what about Gilbert? So Gilbert was an army intelligence. Book six languages has a broad star. Got into promoting people for political positions. And he was pushing a woman that didn't win for a congress in Washington. She was appointed by the governor to be the head of the public retirement system in Washington. He was picked by her to be the assistant director. Super smart guy. Single live in Washington. I just purchased this Thunderbird. Was real proud of it. Pulls into the park, plain as music loud, ranger comes up says, hey, and you might turn in the music down. He goes, well, do you least like it? That's what she said. And she goes, no, I like it. But could you turn it down? Yeah. He's wearing a Hawaiian shirt, Bermuda shorts and flip flops. The camera around his neck gets out, walks into Olympic National Park. Pretty busy area where he disappeared, walked up the trail. That was it. He's supposed to be at a meeting for the retirement system the following day. The director reports a missing. Big search. Huge search. Well, talk about that search because that's a big clue to me because Jacob gets nothing. Gilbert gets 5,000 hours of federal search. All kinds of air, everything, ground pounders. Yeah. That's a big response for just a pet for an assistant pension fund manager. Huge. But I think everybody knew why he was getting that is because of the political tie-ins that everyone had to this case. I don't think so. I think it's, I think it's something else. You think so? Yeah. Good. All right. I know a little bit about the intelligence community. As my audience knows, we've got 82nd Airborne, two bronze stars, expert trooper. Okay. That's a feeder into a certain system. Speaks all these languages. His posts are at embassies. So that to me sounds like he's undercover with state. Three of those languages he speaks are Arabic, Chinese and Russian. One of his posts is Mongolia. Why Mongolia? Because it's our only listening post that borders on land with Russia and China. He's in Yemen. He's an interrogator as a contractor in Iraq. He's doing all this stuff. So that response to me sounds like that's a guy who knows things that we got to find out what happened. Where'd he go? Was he picked up by agents? Was something nefarious? Did he fake his death? So in hindsight, the ranger believed that he purposely had the music loud so that he would be seen by a ranger and acknowledge that he was there. That's interesting. That wasn't in the film. No. That's a nice, that's a nice note. Yeah. And she thought Lustig was her name. She thought it was odd the way he was dressed. It wouldn't be the way that you and I would go hiking, right? But he was, he didn't wear hiking shoes, nothing. He just seemed odd. Especially for a trained ranger. Yeah. So his girlfriend who lives in East Coast flies out. His mom lives on East Coast flies out. Mom's in the 90s. Sharp as a tack. So they're out there. They're monitoring the search. Search goes on for we can have two weeks. They're not finding anything. They put divers in the water. They had helicopters in the air. That everything you can manage. They searched his house. I hope I'm to find some clue. Nothing. So who searched his house? Oh, the special agent from the park service with the parents went to the house. So as the mom's wealthy, really wealthy. She had a pen house apartment in Chicago that he stayed at occasionally and had a room there. And they lived on park Avenue in New York. That's where she lived. As they're there at the park and this is going on, she gets a call from the management team in Chicago. She says, Hey, Ms. Gilman, just to let you know a couple FBI agents were here today and they needed to get into your apartment to get some things. And we let her man and they left with some things. She's telling me this story. I says, Mrs. Gilman, they can't do that. She goes, no. I said, no, they had to have a search warrant. And number one, your management team has no rights to let them know. Oh, really? Just a just a nice innocent lady. I said, no, no. She goes, well, I said, did you figure out what they took? Yeah. Gilbert, the last time he was there, wrote on a yellow tablet in Arabic. I don't know what I wrote, but I kept it there. They took that. And then there were two books that he asked me to get form that were on his nightstand. And she goes, Dave, I always thought that that was a clue to all this. I said, clue. She goes, yeah, clue. So before I interviewed Mrs. Gilman, I interviewed the girlfriend who had seen Gilbert about a month before he disappeared. And we start talking and I said, well, did he have any ties to the CIA? Kind of goes, I don't think I could talk about that. I said, what do you mean? You can't talk about that. You're under, you're not under a non-disclosure. You're not under your secrecy. Oh, you can talk about anything. She just, she said that about a week before he disappeared, he had called her. And she said, I was in the middle of something and I just couldn't talk and I had to break away. And he goes, but, but, and she said, you know, I always thought that he was trying going to tell me something, but I had to go and I feel really bad about that. And she was, she was upset. So then I go on and I talk to Mrs. Gilman. And in the end, it's the feeling that this was probably a planned event and that he went away for some type of governmental issue. And it was all orchestrated by the government. So when I talked to others about this, I said, well, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Why was I able to feel? figure this out and the park service didn't. Why see listed as a missing person on the park service if there's something else going on, which we just exposed, why are they lying to the public? I don't get it. Now if this happened once, okay so be it, but then I ask you, Adrian, how many times has the park been used as a point to extricate someone from society and put them into service someplace else? And we don't know about it. No, but we know it happens. Yeah, there you go. Does your gut say that he's out there somewhere? He's deep, deep undercover. The question I really have is let's say the CIA needed him for some reason. What's the need to extricate him from society and make him appear as a missing person versus just take him in and use him? What's that? I don't get it. And I don't understand. I've talked to other military people and they said, this makes sense to us Dave. No, it's a weird way to do that. Yeah. Why do you think he was trying to call attention to himself to make sure that he was seen? To use the missing international park as cover. His mother was more open about his intelligence work. Apparently, they had a bit of a kind of a code, but his girlfriend, man, she wouldn't say anything. She knows something. Oh yeah. No, I was waiting for you to ask and you finally did. I don't think I can talk about that. It's like, well, I know what that means. The other point that I'll make here, and I don't care if Gilbert watched this. But at the end of the interview with his mom, I said, you know, there's a decent chance that Gilbert may see this someday. What do you want to tell him? Please come home. I miss you. Yeah. Come on. How could you do that to your mom? Yeah. How could anybody do that to their family? I couldn't. No, that's why I kind of lean away from that theory a little bit because I don't feel like he would do that. You know, when someone's pulled out like that for a mission, it's usually someone with a little bit of cleaner background, like no one left behind to ask questions. You know, a wealthy mom could be a pain if you're, you know, that could be a pain. You think he's out there? Yeah. I do. I hope you're right. And I say that just because the mom feels that he is and so does girlfriend. I think the girlfriend does. I never talk about this, but probably my best friend in my whole life was, I'll say, emergency, and in great shape, and he was working in Columbia, Bogota, Embassy, and he died of a brain aneurysm on a run when he was 25. But we, meaning we and the family, couldn't get an autopsy, couldn't see anything. The body came home in a welded stainless steel casket, no further, I was flagging my office. It's all very strange. The State Department would not cooperate with the family at all. So I continued to tell myself that Pat's out there, that all of that was just staged so we could do that work. But then again, it's, you left a lot of us hurt and yeah, but it's something that happens. Pat had called me two days earlier and he said, "If something happens to me, you have to come get me." I wish I still had that tape. What else was happening in Washington, that I didn't realize that the D.B. Cooper landed out there as well. Yeah. What's this about granite? So when you really get into the minutiae about granite, it's an interesting mineral. And it has a lot of properties that don't exist in other rocks and minerals. And just to get to the core of it, where is the most granite in our world, Yosemite. And when I say that granite's involved in a lot of the disappearances and water is, well, what goes through the middle of that big, huge granite field in Yosemite, Merced River. What are some of the properties of granite that are interesting? It's conductivity. It creates electricity. Yeah. These are electricity. Yeah. Especially with the river. Yeah. Magnetic field. A lot of weird stuff. A lot. And I didn't know that. When I first started, I had people what's smarter than me, right to me and say, "Hey, Dave, you're on something here and pay attention to this." And not just Yosemite, but when you get up higher in altitude above treeline in a lot of these places where people disappear, there's a lot of granite boulders. So when you hear, I've heard about this more than once, that orbs are seen in Yosemite a lot, and where the orbs tend to go right into the rock, so that's a hard thing to wrap your head around, if there's something inside that orb going into that rock, how does that happen? They see it at Renier. They see it at Chasta. It goes right into the side of the rock. 100%. Like, the rock doesn't open. No. It just goes. How does that happen? I think you capture orbs in your film during one of the shots, unless you pull that footage. But there was stuff in the sky during one of those shots. Maybe it was during the fleer test. Hmm. Maybe. I don't know if you remember that from the film, but your fleer expert is amazing. And as you're shooting, there's stuff moving in the sky moving all around. I don't know if you remember that. Oh, yeah. No. So that individual is used right now at Skinwalker Ranch on their series doing that research. And he called me. He lives in Seattle. Called me goes, Dave, I want to help you if you can have, if I could ever use you. He has a fleer device that he developed himself that shows about 10 times more than a normal fleer would show. And we set up on Rainier and six hours. I can't count how many things we saw flying in and out of there. And it's hard to, it's hard to wrap your mind around how busy it can be that, and we're not even seeing it. And we can't see it with the naked eye, right? That's one of those claims that kind of connects the big foot for me is when skeptics say, how does it, how does it disappear? Well, if something can somehow shift into ultraviolet or infrared, you wouldn't see it. But it's still there, you just can't see it. Now there was research done in Pennsylvania where big foot has been seen there so many times. And one of the times a big foot was seen holding an orb in its hand. What? Yes. And this was in the proximity of where a UFO was seen hovering above other big foot. So that association between orb's big foot and UFOs is almost like a weekly occurrence out there in parts of Pennsylvania. Sounds like that story from earlier where the orb comes down and the creatures come out. Exactly. If you go back to the native legends, because you like with the hoopa, are the orbs part of those stories too? Yes. Because if you really think about that story on the California organ border, that glowing moon could be an orb. Just by the definition, we just don't know. Yeah, the tribe around Shasta, they are forbidden to go above the tree line because that's the home of the sky people. Have you ever seen vanished? Yes. So that's owned by the history channel. You can watch it right now on Amazon for a couple bucks. So they hired me to do an hour and a half special about missing people. We went up on to Shasta and about to missing people and it's absolutely where that person went. There's no crevices. There's no place to go. And well, hold on now, you're now you're getting me excited. Do you remember any of those cases from Shasta? No, because I have questions. So the man that disappeared on Shasta, he was up there with a pilot from American Airlines and another man that owned an import export business. from San Francisco and they had camped. His name was Carl. And they had camped on the side of Shasta. He didn't feel good that night and they were putting the camp together and they said, "Hey, Carl, you take off ahead of us and we'll follow you up." This is the Carl Landers case. Carl Landers, yes. And he's going up and they said, "Yeah, we saw him climbing up and then you hit a position where a ranger checks you in before you go up." Well, the ranger wasn't there that day and they don't know. There was some thinking that somebody saw him making that final jump to the summit. Others said they hadn't seen him. So long story short, the head of search and rescue for the state of California took over that search up in that area and they put a cobra helicopter at the summit over 14,000 feet and dropped searchers and had him come down like a spider web on the mountain. They did that three times. And that search official said, "Dave, he's not on it. He may be in it but he's not on it. He's either up there or he's in there but he's not on it." And he goes, "I guarantee he's not on it. There's no place to go." I mean, the Landers disappeared basically in plain sight with good visibility in front of two companions. 100 percent. And he was trained hiker. 100 percent. Good shape. Good shape. 69 years old. Yeah. Yeah. Still nothing on him. Very, very few options on that. Very few options about what could have happened. And the searcher, he said, "Dave, I'm baffled. I have no idea." Did you ever pull his report, his case? Well, there's the voyeur. So I got unlimited access to the head searcher and he was just transparent as you could be. So he would have been the one right and so that would have been a state issue not federal. State isn't covered by voyeur. Only feds. Right. So I never even tried. But any time I wanted to contact him I could have. So that was a long time ago but just last year, I don't know if you looked into the Lesnar Cardenas case. Lesnar Cardenas. He's driving. He flips his car, calls for help. Police respond. He's not there. Apparently, hitches to ride home, get grabs his hiking gear, close to a trailhead in Shasta and just as that's it. And that's the last we've heard of Cardenas. I didn't heard that. There is another case on Shasta within the last year involving a younger man like in his 20s, disparate on the mountain too. I did a video about it. And just nothing. Nothing. When a case comes across your desk, what makes it a 401 case and what makes it not fit in those profile points. Tracking dogs can't find a sin. Professional trackers can't find tracks. Point of separation. You and I are hiking together. Hey, you go that way. I'll go this way and something happens to one of us happens all the time. A weather event. Either when the person disappears or one search and rescue starts. Granted, if the person is found, nine times out of 10, they have memory loss and they don't remember how they got got lost or disappeared. Those cases are wild because that's what was that one case where the guy heard the bagpipes. Do you remember that one? Oh, yeah, that was an Olympic case. Olympic National Park. You want to tell that one real fact? He disappeared twice, didn't he? So he gets dropped off by a girlfriend and he's going to hike Olympic. And it spends a few days. He gets lost and he's just camping out, wakes up one day and he's looking for, I think, something to drink or something to eat and he hears bagpipes and he kept walking towards those bagpipes. So there's a search and rescue team on the mountain looking for somebody else. Those bagpipes drug that man and let him right into the middle of that search party's camp. Didn't they say he was like dirty and crazy and thirsty? Correct. How crazy is that? And then what happens to him? He just wanders off again. So I forgot who it was, but while he was missing, it was like a father-in-law or stepfather or that wasn't his direct father, but one of those people died. And there was, there was some theory by some that maybe those bagpipes had something to do with a father or father-in-law that died that led him to safety. Yeah, that's a nice touch. Yeah. Got to admit it's pretty odd. Yes. But I mean, if you're dying a thirst, you're all kinds of crazy things you're going to see in here. Oh, and no doubt, but to lead you to the middle of the search camp. That's pretty remarkable. That's a great case. All right, we'll take quick break. Come back. We'll talk some more 401. We'll get into some big foot. Perfect. So I've been asked to ask you about one Shasta case. And if you don't remember, you don't, that's fine. Do you remember the grandma capy case? Oh, yeah. You do? I'll thank goodness. Such a weird story. Very weird story. Little boy gets lost and he tells a story that he gets taken down underground and there's this woman. She may be been a robotic type woman because she admitted some kind of sparks and things and the thing that was very odd about it is that he he was taken underground and for a little kid to come up with this story is just bizarre. And the way he described this woman was bizarre. I would have ignored it and not given it two cents except that for a little boy to come up with that story. I don't know if it's possible. The way he was found was weird. Yeah. For you guys don't know, this little boy is hanging out with this grandma of the grandma capy and says, I like you better than the other grandma capy. And mom says, what? And he tells this story of being underground with someone who looks like his grandmother, makes him defecate on paper or something like that. It's too weird to make up. Then search arrest. You can't find him. They search the whole area and then he just appears out of the brush and he's fine. And he's found in a location that was previously searched. Yes. Which is one of our profile points. And I wish I could have interviewed the child one on one but we didn't get that option. So we have to just kind of listen to what his grandmother said. It's one of a kind. I've never heard of anything similar to that. No, it's a really weird one. And I think his grandmother was camping their wants and woke up with like punctured woohooons. I don't know if you remember that part of the story, which was corroborated by a friend of hers. And they thought it was spider bites or something. Yeah. But I think it sounds like DNA extraction for their androids that are under there. That's a great story. It is. It's a wild one. All right. Let's talk some Bigfoot. So you know, I don't like Bigfoot. I don't like it. Well, then why are we talking about it? Because if I don't, I'll get in trouble. When I say I don't like it, that's not what I mean. I want all these stories to be real. I approach them with as a hopeful skeptic like Bigfoot. I want it to be real. But there's so much noise. I don't know what to believe. So in my mini doc, I debunked pretty much everything except Patterson given them I couldn't debunk it. And the the Freeman video, I couldn't debunk that. Is there any other video? So when I go to a conference, I'm going to give you a list of things to think about. And this is what this is how I started. And I start off talking about a man named Ron Morehead who had the Sierra camp. And it was a camp with hunters that went to it for decades. And they had these encounters at the camp with what probably was a Bigfoot. And he actually brought a recorder up and recorded the sounds that this thing made in camp. He then turned the recordings over to a university Wyoming professor. And Rodney Curlin, university Wyoming. And he said that these were not digitalized. They were not pre-recorded. They were a lower frequency than what humans could produce. And they're very unsettling. They're creepy. They're creepy. Then they were turned over to a man named Scott Nelson 25 years navy We equipped a linguist specialist three time Navy Postgraduate School. He identified it as perfect language. We just don't know what they were saying, but he said that is language. Now there's a show called Expedition Bigfoot season four, episode five. They hung microphones out there and they recorded some things. They turned that over to a professor of linguistics, Dr. Ron Cosper. He stated those sounded like hominid, meaning they were articulated in the mouth. Asked by a producer if he thought Bigfoot produced language, Dr. Cosper said yes. And he said, "Cosper stated that there's reports of yetis using language." Season three, episode nine, interviewed with Hank Bernard and Native Elder. He stated that they are a tribe of people. They can bend light around them. Mariah Mayer, a good friend of mine, by the way, she and I did a cruise together. She said something ran right by me, but I couldn't see it. We didn't walk through any of this. It's like she walked through a portal, didn't recognize anything. Something runs right by her. She says she doesn't see it. Dr. Rob Alley wrote a book called Raincoz Sasquatch, one of the best books out there about Bigfoot. And he had multiple, multiple reports of Bigfoot swimming amongst the inner islands, swimming amongst the inner islands in Alaska. This was a common occurrence in Alaska. Now, Apes and Gorillas don't like to swim. Bigfoot likes to swim. And Apes and Gorillas can't make language, they don't. Obviously not. They don't have the anatomy. No. So I'm going to get to that. Okay. Don't jump ahead. What? So, in our movie American Sasquatch, Colin Keller, the chief investigator at SkinWalker Ranch, where they allure, where they saw this biped come out of what it looked like a portal, six foot tall 400 pounds. NASA website 2015 said, "Portals are real." Jonathan Dover. What did NASA said? And he says, "Portals are real?" Portals are real. It's on their website. Okay. Okay. Jonathan Dover. Do you ever heard of him? Mm-hmm. Another guy you would really like. He's a former Navajo ranger. He's 30 years in law enforcement, graduated from the federal law enforcement school. Super smart man. He's Navajo. As a ranger, they were like the fishing game for the Navajo tribe. He gets called into his chief's office one day, after 20 years. And he and his partner get called in and said, "Hey, you're my new bigfoot and UFO expert. We've had too many of these. You're going to go investigate and you're going to be the expert." He goes, "Hey, I don't have any interest in this, because I don't care. You're going to go do it." Jonathan went out and for 10 years did nothing but investigate bigfoot and UFOs. He said, "Dave, I can't tell you the number of times I walked and followed a path of tracks that ended in the middle of nowhere." Just suddenly stopped. DNA studies. When I was working for the technology people, one of the things they wanted was DNA. So I went on coast to coast. We went on DNA. The people that paid me to go out and do the research. Oh, they wanted you to collect DNA. Yeah, not yours. Yeah. They're not getting mine. Mine either. 23 and me. No, thank you. So we went on coast to coast and we got 14 states, different specimens to Canadian provinces. When the people set in hair, we need the follicle for the DNA. So when they set in the hair, at first we sent it to a hair and fiber expert. Now, a lot of people don't understand this, but there's people in the FBI and people on the outside that look at hair and fiber every day and use it for criminal prosecutions. These hair looks different, I mean, human, to ape, to gorilla, to deer, to elk. Everyone is different. Bigfoot hair doesn't look like anything else in the planet. How do you know it's bigfoot hair? If I see, if I'm a witness and I see the bigfoot walk over to, and this is exactly how it happened, they walk over to a shed on the property. This is in Hupa and they lean over this shed and they're going through the big plastic bags in the shed. They pick out two bags, they pull back over the shed. At the point where they're pulling back over, right at the corner, it pulled out hair. It pulled out hair, okay. One of our guys went out there, accumulated the hair. The hair was sent to a hair and fiber expert. It's nothing that's ever been identified on the planet. This is replicated time after time, but when you look at it under a microscope, it looks like it has scales on the hair. It's very unique looking. I could teach you AJ in 10 minutes how to be a hair and fiber expert and identify bigfoot hair. Looks like nothing else. These 100 plus samples that we had of just hair, they all look just like that, but they're like nothing else on the planet. It can't be mistaken. So you have the follicle, you can get the DNA, but you can only get mitochondrial DNA, meaning from the maternal side from hair. But we also, in our specimen analysis and collection, we got blood, saliva tissue. Let me help them understand. It's hard to collect fraternal DNA because that only occurs in nucleoscentage, it degrades very, very quickly. It might accommodate DNA. It's all over the cells, there's 2,000 in every cell and it's very hardy, so easy to collect the maternal side, fraternal, almost impossible. So we did get saliva, blood, fingernail, and tissue. I didn't know you had all of that because I'm very aware of the psychs DNA study in Oxford all of that stuff. And I leaned toward psychs, I didn't know you had blood and saliva and tissue. So on psychs, from these 115 samples from all over North America. So on psychs, do you know the Dr. Meldrum sent psychs, Bigfoot hair? I didn't know he did. He did. I think he just passed, didn't he? He did. That's his shame. So Dr. Meldrum and I did two different cruises together, and were the speakers on the cruise. I asked him that. I said, did you send psychs? And he goes, yeah, and he goes, what did psychs do with it? He told me, Dave, that it was bare. That's what's in the study. It's American black bear. So I'm going to tell you, flat out. It's a lie. That's what Meldrum said? Meldrum, so first of all, Dr. Meldrum, smart guy, he's a 10-year professor. I could teach you in 10 minutes to identify Bigfoot hair. He doesn't mean to tell me that you're trying to tell me that Meldrum sent and mistook black bare hair for Bigfoot impossible. You can't do that. I don't believe it. Psychs took all of the DNA samples and never vetted them through a hair and fiber expert. Just went straight to DNA. So he's a geneticist, that's what he does. But wait a minute, that's idiotic. You know how much that one sample probably cost him to do at that point? 10's of thousands of dollars. Why would you do that? That makes no sense. That's why I don't believe anything he did. Fair enough. I wanted your reaction. Okay, so let's go on. So we have non-human hair, yielding human mitochondrial DNA, non-human hair, yielding mitochondrial human DNA. Now that on the maternal side comes back to 12,000 years into the Middle East. Now we got nuclear DNA. But when we passed it through GenBank, the world receptacle for DNA, 352 billion base pairs when we did it, it had never been categorized in GenBank. It didn't exist. Now when the movie came out and we interviewed other experts and other arenas, there were experts doing DNA studies on the elongated skulls. Do you know that they couldn't get nuclear DNA on those skulls, either? But they can get mitochondrial DNA. Yes. But if you take a contaminated sample and run it through a test like Powerplex, you're going to get mitochondrial DNA perfectly and you're going to get fraternal DNA that doesn't match anything because it's called an amplification error. So that's what you would actually expect. So that's exactly what the press tried to push on the public. But we used, there's only like ten of these in the world at the time, the Louisiana crime lab completely automated system, extracts, analyzes, computes, does everything. And that came back and said it gave us what was called a Q30 score. That's like a score about how accurate their measurements are. It was in the stratosphere for accuracy. Then the press came back and said, well, the reason it says human, they're sterile thinking it's ape and gorilla, right? The reason it's human is because it's contaminated. So they never said this in front of me, but I'll say it in front of you. If my DNA contaminated did those things? It's going to show I'm Greek and Russian. It's not going to show Middle East, and on the male site, it's going to show Greek. It's not going to show nothing nuclear. So, that's impossible for one of us humans to contaminate it. And the problem was, is that there was nobody educated to counter these ludicrous things that were being said. Now, let's keep going, here. This is important. There's only one country in the world, AJ, that committed their funds to studying the topic. Do you know who it is? Russians. The Russians spent millions. They got their best scientists in the world to study it. You know what the conclusion they came to? What? Human. One of their researchers came here to a conference in Colorado, and I was invited to it. I walked into the back room at the conference, and they're holding my two books. And he said, Dave, you're the only one that's told the truth. Everyone else is lying. We know what the truth is, because we've done it in Russia. Now, you're finally telling the truth here. Did the Russians get the nuclear DNA? No, they got exactly what I had found. But you see, they believed that it actually bred with a human. And they were trying to, at that time, extract the DNA from bones that were buried like 50, 70 years ago, and they were having a difficult time with it. But they said, we know you're right, Dave. That's coming from the country that did it. Yeah. So that's pretty powerful. Yeah, Russian, best, and all that stuff. They do. So in 1924, I was doing a review on articles about missing people. In 1924, I found an article in the Oregonian newspaper. I almost thought on my chair thinking, I've gone to a hundred conferences on Bigfoot. I've never seen anyone present this. The title of the article on the front page of the Oregonian was big, hairy Indians back of the apetail. I said, what? They called it the seletic tribe. They said that they're covered with hair. I know the tribe. Bare and bird language they have, they imitate anything in the woods. They have supernatural powers. They can kill game with hypnotism. Other tribes, the Clamam, Lumi, and the Quenalt have traded with them. I heard this, that they traded with them. They would, they had relationship with the, correct. I've heard it. Yeah. And I want to be there, man. They said that they're another tribe of us. By the way, the articles in there, the book, articles in that book. I see a very famous giant skeletons article right on the back of the book. I watched one of your videos, it might been just a few days ago, where you were covering some of the sort of connect, the first time I saw anyone connect the giant's legend to possibly being Bigfoot. Well, and you were very cautious, because you didn't attack the Smithsonian like I do. Oh, I have. I have. Good. But I thought it was an interesting theory because we've got all these stories, articles in press, bones being found, being shipped to Smithsonian, giant, all these native legends. Here are the bones you've got that we've got the woman from the Lovelock tribe wearing the orange hair. Yeah. I mean, the hair is there. Well, I wonder if we can test that. So the truth is, is that every time that those giant bones have been found, it goes to an institution, mainly the Smithsonian, and bingo, it's gone. Why is it gone? Now, I'm not saying that all of those giant bones were Bigfoot, but I find it suspicious that all those specimens are gone. How could that be? Now, they will argue that that it's sensationalism and all of that, and that's fine. I will give you, I'll give you 95% of it, but we have records from the Smithsonian acknowledging receipt of large bones inside a large coffin as well, so like a giant oswery. We have their receipt. So what do you mean you don't have it? Well, what doesn't make sense to me is when they said, well, you know, we're trying to hype this or something. No, no, the articles were written at the time, the bones were found, hype. It was in just a normal newspaper, trying to show the trail of where it went. And there's so many articles. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so that 1924 article, subsequent to that, I found several others that also talked about similar occurrences with that tribe, the sylotex. Then we bring in a Harvey Pratt, brings witnesses, draws much more human looking face than anything related to an ape or gorilla. Now, here's the part you won't hear at other conferences, apes and gorillas. Namely, gigantic pithicus. Let's talk about that. They don't have large breasts all year all the time. Only humans have that. No wild ape or gorilla hair has ever been found in the wilds of North America. So, all these specimens that have been found, we know what gigantic pithicus DNA looks like, pranthropus DNA. We know what their hair would look like. We also know they didn't walk up, right? Absolutely. They're not walkers. That's right. So that DNA has never been found here. Nope. Apes and gorillas do not like water to swim in. There's not one shred of evidence, gigantic pithicus or pranthropus has ever been in North America. No hair, no bones, no sightings. No evidence, just like you said, that they walked upright. Giant pithicus went extinct two million years ago, and they say it was here just because of a piece of a jawbone and a few teeth, and that's it. So when people say, well, Bigfoot is giant pithicus, pranthropus, ape, gorilla, there's not one shred of evidence to prove that. Think about that. And I'm not saying that with no facts or evidence, that's 100% fact. Yet we do have hair that doesn't match anything else in the world that was seen by people, a Bigfoot going from A to B, we recover, we do the DNA the evidence is there. You still have samples sitting around? Samples of hair tissue that could be tested with more supervision. I know you don't like the psychs test, that's fair. He was very specific. So when I first got the samples and was looking for the DNA, you know what I went first? You see Davis. I lived in California. Sure. I mean, one of the best scientific centers in the world. You know what they told me? They said, hey, we don't want anything to do with Bigfoot. Why not? I don't know. I got that from universities time after time after time. It was something that they didn't want to touch. So you know what BFRO is? I do. Okay. So the Bigfoot Research Organization? Yeah. Biggest Bigfoot Research Organization in the world. Great database. So there was a man named Wally Hirschem. Wally was the main benefactor to BFRO and then gave them hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars, over the years, with one edict. Get DNA. If you ask them, they never got any DNA. Again, AJ, I'm going to say, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I was able to get DNA. Scott Carpenter and I got DNA from Great Smokey Mountain National Park. And then we got DNA when we went on coast to coast. Why didn't they do that? So Wally, when he heard we've got it, he joined our study. He actually helped finance some of the DNA work. Once that DNA was done, he said, you guys did an excellent job. I know what you did is 100 percent accurate. You've answered all my questions in the Bigfoot world. I'm done. And he dropped out. He died not too long ago. He was a really good guy. And he was trying to just get to the fact of what it was. He says, I know no. He knows. He knows. Wonder what happens to Meldram's work and all of his, everything he has? It went to Cliff Brackman. Oh, it did? Yeah. Is it safe there? Oh, yeah. Cliff's a good guy. I think that field is going to miss Jeffrey Meldram. I mean, they sure had to have him untannured and it didn't take. He was one of the nice, did you ever get to meet him? No. One of the nicest people you will ever meet. I mean, we didn't agree on anything in the Bigfoot world, but we could sit around and talk. He seemed very sincere. What did you disagree with him on? Oh, he thought - I thought it was an ape gorilla based, panthropus, gigantic epithesis. - I didn't know that he felt that way. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, he was very valuable to the field because he's so credible. - He broke down so many doors and he had people listen that wouldn't normally listen. - Yeah. - I would think there'd be more public support for the research. - There's a lot of people out there that do it as a hobby. I personally believe that there have been organizations within the last three years that have done DNA studies. That believe it was an ape gorilla that did the study, found out what it was and never talked about it again. - You're that from the Smithsonian. Over your research going back 15 years, I feel like you've moved from or closer toward the interdimensional, quantum orbs side of this story, have you? - Oh, definitely. - So what do you think is going on there? 'Cause I think all UFO people in the community researchers, I'll say we were moving toward some type of spiritual manifestation, orbs are more frequent now. - So I've been a move on investigator for 17 years. - I didn't know that. - Yeah. I don't actively do any work. I'm too busy doing my own things. But I do have access to all their literature and research. And did you know that many of abductees have seen a big-foot creature on a craft? - I've heard that. - Yeah, so what do you make of that? - Yeah, I'll be missing time, all that. Now what is the quantum argument? 'Cause I like quantum physics. You know like you like hockey? - Oh yeah. - I like quantum physics. - Yeah. - How does big-foot connect to quantum mechanics? - So how something can be in two places at the same time? - Entangled. - Right. So one of the things that has happened to the researchers at Skinwalker Ranch, they don't talk about it a lot, but they have gone public with it. The hitchhiker effect? - Yeah. - Have you heard about this? - The phenomenon follows you. - It follows you. And it can go home with you. And nine times out of ten, it never bothers the researcher, but it will go after the family, friends. And it's almost, it's almost as though it wants to scare them or surprise them at some level. - Not a poltergeist reports like this? - Yeah, exactly. And I mean we're talking about world class physicists that have had this happen to them. So it's real, but that happens at the ranch when they're dealing with UFO issues. It's happened fairly regularly to Bigfoot researchers. - Hitchhiker effect? - Oh yes, no kidding. - Oh yes. When you get down to the bare basics with these guys, everyone in the movie would admit it. That was in my movie. It's all happened to them. It's happened to me twice. - What happened to you? - So I was doing the research in California, moved to Colorado, and I was living in the foothills outside of Morrison, Colorado. Kind of in a rural area. Came out to my car one day, and there in kind of the muddy soil right at my car was about a 16 inch track, perfect. Just one. And it was at a place I couldn't miss it. It was right, I stopped everything. I searched for like 300 yards in every direction. Not another track, just one. - Did you take a picture? - No. - I'm pretty sure it was, but I didn't. - Nobody ever takes it. - No, takes a picture. - Glad. So I moved to Montana, and at the time I was living with another lady, and I have a forest all around me. And she went for a hike, and she texted me, she says, you need to come out here right now. Uh oh, grab my gun. Go run him back there. She goes, look, Dave. And there on the side of the trail is a 15, 16 inch track, perfect. Just like my house in Colorado, perfect. And she goes, what do you make of that? I says, well, let's, let's look. So we spent an hour looking, couldn't find any other track. So then we turn around, start walking back home. And I have to go over to this little knoll on the trail. And I swear to you on my, anyone's life, as we go up over the trail, laying right in the middle of the trail, is a deer leg. - Wow. - Perfect, right in the middle of the trail. - But no deer, just the leg. - Just the leg. It was placed there, so we wouldn't miss it. And she goes, oh, they're here, Dave. I go, yeah, there. - That's your bowling ball in the creek moment. - Yeah, there you go. - Let's go home. - Yeah. So things like that have happened to us before we were in Colorado when I was living there. I mean, there was a trail we always like to hike up in northern Colorado. And it snowed like six inches that morning. And we were gonna take the hike anyhow. And we were out about a mile and a half and in fresh, perfect snow. Starting on the hillside to our left, crossing the trail in front of us and stopping like five feet on this side. Perfect, perfect set of tracks, stops. Starts right there where you can see and stops right there where you can see. But that happens all the time. Now the reason I'm leading you on this is that these aren't these creatures there leaving one track. There's something else going on. And I think it has to do with being in multi places at the same time and being able to leverage that to send us messages. Messages, I don't know what it means. Other than, hey, we're here, we're keeping tracks to you. I don't know. - This is like part of the trickster legend where they leave you just enough to let you know that we're here, but not enough to prove it. - So I don't believe that because I think that they cooperated with Scott and I and purposely left their DNA for us. - Left their hair. Left their tracks. - How intelligent do you get the sense they are? - Way smarter than us. - Really? - Way smarter, yes. - And why dig through garbage for food? Why don't you open a Denys? A big fit, a big fit Denys would be a good idea. - Those are the parts I can't square. You know, if they're hyper intelligent, why, why pluck a chicken? - What's not intelligent about that? - I guess that's how-- - We're gonna eat it. - It's how we do it. - Yeah, we're gonna eat it. - Yeah, so there's just parts of the story. I can't square, but there are parts that I can't just prove. - So one of the things I've talked about in my channel before, is I was at a conference and somebody asked me to go to lunch and they were super smart. So I said, "Okay, I'll go." They said, "Dave, I got a theory for you." You know, this one really made me think. Dave, you've heard of that theory that we're in a simulation. Now, put your guard down for a second and think we really are in a simulation. - I think we are. - And whoever's playing this game with us, they aren't a certain amount of points. And once they get enough points, they can put a big foot down and see how you humans down there will react to it. - I love this theory. 'Cause that's what you do. If you're playing Sim City or whatever, if you earn the big foot bonus, let's drop a track. - What it is? - Wouldn't you? - Yeah. - Send Godzilla, whatever. - Yeah. And then he said, "And then on that other side, we have this ant farm next to us." And Earth is the ant farm. And every once in a while, the home body, 20 planets away, need some fresh DNA and they pluck some out. I've heard that before. - Yeah. - I, what can you say? - It's unfalseifiable, it's a great theory. - Yeah. - I lean towards simulation theory. Speaking of science and physics, you brought in a couple of, are these missing scientists, right? - Yeah. - Which is in, they're in the news. And we've got four men here. They're all German scientists, right? - Yes, sir. - What happened to these guys? - So here's the intriguing part behind this. First of all, I came up with this on my own, about four or five years ago. Three out of the four are from Germany. young man on the far left. He got a special scholarship because of his brilliance, Fulbright Scholar, to come to the states and study graduate level physics. He disappeared in Olympic National Park January 20th, 1992. He was a genius. LA off-crossed, the second man was here for a physics conference in Los Angeles at Lake, and he went to Lake Arrowhead for the conference. He was a university professor of physics in Germany, 62 years old, went on a hike with some people sponsored by the conference. As they go on the hike, there's like 20 people. He starts to feel ill. This is something I talk about missing person's cases. If you and I are out together, sometimes one of us will get sick and say, hey, you go on, I'm going to wait here at that point of separation. He sits down, there's a guy at the front of the pack, a guy at the back, the guy at the, the guy at the back also doesn't feel good. So he and Cross both sit down. Crossed as I feel better, and he takes off, and the other guy says, while I meet up, Cross took off and never was found again. He can go gone. Rich Reiner at Kirchner, he worked for a company called GSI Corporation. He's a physicist. He was studying heavy ion research. They had an accelerator where they bring in physicists from all over the world. He was here on vacation. He landed in Vancouver, rented a cab over camper, drove down to the little Colorado River Gorge, and went for a hike. He had been there the year before, he was by himself, disappeared, never found again. Karl Disch, this missing May 65 at the bird ice station in Antarctica. He was an ionospheric physicist, originally from Wisconsin working for Boulder Labs, the National Bureau of Standards. He was walking between buildings there. Antarctica. And Antarctica. During a storm, and they have ropes that you hold on to. He had been there for a long time. He knew the gig. Somehow or another, he got off the rope and he disappeared. Now, the interesting part about that is that there were rumors, and you could look this up, that there were lights in the sky scene. And supposedly, he called into the ice station years later, and says, "I'm alive, I'm someplace else," or something. Really? Now, that's not the only one. Kirchner, when he disappeared, disappeared really in the middle of nowhere in the desert out there, in the little Colorado River Gorge. There were some sheep herders that when he disappeared, they saw lights in the sky above his cab over camper, and when the Arizona State Police took over that case. In the report, because I have it, it says they saw lights in the skies and thought he was abducted by aliens. I've never seen anything like that. Wow! In a police report ever in my life. It's in the report. So, for what it is? Now, we talk about linkage. This is the only time I've ever seen confirmed linkage. All of them were physicists. All of them were German. What makes it not a coincidence? Because they're so spread apart. How about this? I can't find another physicist in the world that's missing other than those four. That's a good answer. What do you make of the scientist controversy now? Is it overhyped? Well, first of all, not all of them were scientists. Several of them, one of them was a program manager McCraslan, and a couple of others were just peripheral support people. I think the press is trying to find linkage when there is none. Really? Really, I think so. I think a couple of them are real, couple of them are suicides. I'm with you on most of that. I tend to think the press is a tool of the state, but I think it's overhyped a little bit. I don't talk much about it because I think a couple of those scientists would like to be left alone at the moment. So I'm doing that. It's very honorable of you. Well, because I've covered so many of these cases of people working on advanced research that just they get suicidal, they home in basins, mugged in front of their house, you know, a broad daylight. Over and over and over again. So getting back to the German scientists here, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but on my YouTube channel, can I am missing like Canadian American, can I am missing project is mine? Yeah, plug it. Half a million followers. Follow what's going up. Oh, yeah, we're going up. So we talk about Germans disappeared and they disappear at more of a frequency than normal people. Now, why is that? I get a lot of people that talk about that and some people say, oh, there's something about the German blood, there's something about Germans going back centuries that it's different. I have no idea if any of that's true, but I'll throw it out there. Well, they're they're the most common ethnic group in America or German sentence. Could just be that 30% or so. Yeah. But how do you account for only German physicists? I can't. I can't. And you know, with with Carl Dish, when you handed me this earlier, I saw the date and I was like, oh, this is a Nazi scientist. And you said, no, he's the only American on there. Yeah, that's right. What German heritage? So no trace of Steve, so Bissert, he was out of Washington. Here's in the movie. That case is in the movie. That's right. I remember him. So no trace. No trace. And you got it, you know, I mean, that's 34, 35 years ago. And still nothing's been found of his, which is odd. So let's just let's just think about that. What's the consistency? They were by themselves. They were in a very, very remote area when they disappeared. How odd is that that those guys would be in that space at that time and disappear? Considering who they are. I mean, none of them made a living being in that remote space. The two guys in the middle want a professor in Germany, want a physicist at a big corporation in Germany. And they're here and it happens here. Yeah, it's weird. You know, with a lot of your cases, they're experienced hikers, but there's so many cases where it's like these men have never go out for a hike. And suddenly you're you do. So Kirchner was, it had been said that he was a hiker and that he had gone to this little Colorado River Gorge before. Now, when he disappeared, there were some US fish and wildlife people actually down in the water in the Gorge doing some studies. Said they never saw anybody come down there. So if he didn't go down in the Gorge, where did he go? Have you tried to get these cases yet? I do have Kirchner's case. I do. Dishes case, I don't even know if there is a case because it was at Antarctica. Yeah. Crossed, he would be the LA County Sheriff's and Bissert's case is National Park Service. Are there any agencies that that cooperate with you? Do you have any, are there any good guys out there? Yeah, I tell people that in most jurisdictions, the sheriffs are really, really good guys. And the reason for that, we elect them. Right. Police chiefs, political appointees, sheriffs, no, we got them into office. They usually respond. They're usually good, not everybody, but usually good people. The Bureau of the Interior is infamous for being litigious about its image and yet has not sued you. Yeah. I don't think they have issued a public statement about you. Have they? I mean, they know who you are. Not that I know of. It's, you know, because it's very hard for the skeptics. It's like if he's lying, they could just the OISU's people. You were working with Timberchette to try to get to Secretary of the Interior. Congressman Berchette from Tennessee. Absolutely. Salt to the Earth guy. He's actually in our movie. And he tells a big-foot story. He's a big believer. He was, he had a fighter pilot tell him a story at the park right near where he lives. A great smoky national park. Fighter pilots driving through the park and he says, "Bigfoot rock right in front of our car and front of my wife and I." And Tim goes, "Dave, this guy wouldn't even lie. Never lie." Anyhow, he's tried to help me before and trying to get through into the Department of the Interior to get to Bergham, who's the head of it. He knocked down some doors, got me to him and they wouldn't call me. So you got to Bergham? No, no, no. I got to the Department of the Interior and then they stopped returning my calls. So it doesn't matter what kind of administration's in power. It's always Stonewall, no matter who is in charge. It feels like the UFO disclosure story doesn't matter who is in charge, you get read into the program and suddenly I can't release the files. Is there a case that you still kind of think about maybe a solvable, maybe bothers you? Eris. Stacey Eris does? What is it about her case? I've never seen them put up such a fight over any case like that. Do you ever identify agent you? Oh, I know who he is. Oh, you do? Yeah. That's his real name? Yeah. Okay. I mean, it sounds agent, but he's white. Oh, that's helpful, actually. Yeah. I haven't been in touch with him since. Nope. Did you file an appeal against that FOIA denial? No. Why not? I think there's a time to fight and there's a time to just go backwards a little bit. That's not your hill to die on. No, and I'm still having success getting other case files from other areas. So rather than make a huge stink about that that maybe shuts down the whole system and let that let that dog lie for a little bit, something will come on that case in the future. That's smart. You want to pick your favors? Yeah. Well, before we get out of here, maybe it's a weird way to close this, but I think it's important. Advise for people going out in the wilderness? Great question. So, in fact, I'm going to do one in the next two weeks, every spring I do a video on what to carry in your backpack and how to get it arranged so that if the worst happened, you'd walk out of there eventually. The number one thing is carry a personal locator beacon. And they're about the size of your phone and believe it or not, most phones these days actually have that in it. But besides carrying your phone, make sure you carry a charger with it, an extra battery, solar battery, something to make sure that that thing will work in an emergency. There's a new device that just came out within the last year that is just extraordinary. It's about the size of a quartzized milk carton. And what it is is there's a canister inside. You activate the canister, you point it in the air and a balloon goes straight up 150 feet. That's great. And there's a light in the balloon. And that is your SOS. So if the personal locator beacon didn't work, that balloon is going to get seen everywhere. And I always tell people, I usually introduce a couple of different bars that I know of to carry in your backpack, water, etc. But that's a good question. Personal locator beacon should be carried by anybody, especially if you go off trail. If you go off trail and you break your leg, you're not coming out of there. I've noticed that a lot of the parks, national parks don't want you to carry your gun there, even if you're licensed to carry. Have you found that? Doesn't really matter what they think. I mean, I'm bringing mine anyway. Yeah. So the way the law is is whatever state the park is in, if you could legally carry your gun concealed in that state, then you can carry the gun concealed in the park. I didn't know that. Yes, it's a law. Oh, it's a law. So as an example, if you're a Montana resident like me, and you travel to California, and because we have CCWs in Montana that are very loose, that doesn't mean I can carry my gun concealed in California. No, in the parks. But could I do it night? Oh, yes. Could I do it in Wyoming? Yes. That's a prosody. Yeah, Washington, Oregon, California, no. But I would encourage anybody who has the wherewithal, go down to your local rifle or pistol range, get an NRA instructor, get comfortable with a weapon, and carry a weapon when you're hiking, if you can. And always, always, always carry bear spray if there's bears in that area. Good advice. Anything else you want the folks to know? Where to find you? Missing 411.com is my website for Bigfoot and Missing People, not that they're related. But I was talking about Jeff Meldrum and I doing the cruise. Yes. I've actually have a Missing 411 cruise and a Bigfoot cruise all in one, leaving in September for Alaska. Do you promise the cruise comes back? I promise. Okay. The cruise come back. It's probably, I've done this three times. It's the most beautiful place to go by boat in the world. And go through my website, Missing411.com, you can find the cruise and all the information about it. So it's you and some experts on the cruise. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And hey, we walk around, we get stopped by people all the time. I'm telling you, if you want access to the smartest, best researchers in the world, that's the place to go. Okay. You going to join us? I'm into it. I love it. And lastly, I would say my website for YouTube, our YouTube channel, half a million subscribers. I load a new video on a Missing Person every other day. Can I am like Canadian American? Can I am Missing Project? The videos are great. You're a great storyteller as well. And also very compassionate. So a lot of the stories are touching. You're doing an important work. They fly just thank for coming in. Thank you very much. Everybody. That was David Plyce, we covered Missing411, the big foot DNA skin walker ranch, and the cases without the clean ending. So let me break it down. Here's what we know. David was a cop for almost 20 years in the San Jose PD. That's true. This Daciares case is real in July of 1981. The 14 year old walk toward a lake in Yosemite, in plain view, or father, and never came back. One of the biggest searches in part history turned up a single camera lens cap. Kenneth Arnold's 1947 flying saucy sighting happened while he was searching for a crashed marine plane near Mount Rainier. That's also on the record. Now the bigger claim. David funded a big foot DNA study run by a geneticist named Melba Ketchum. She said the maternal line would back 15,000 years, and the father's DNA matched nothing on record. Well, there's some problems with that study. Her 2013 paper ran in a journal called Denolvo that had never published anything before or since. It looks like it was built to print this one study. In fact, the paper was purchased or launched, I think, nine days earlier. Other geneticists also found problems with the study. One lab traced a sample back to a black bear, and no outside lab has been able to reproduce any of these results. That David knows the study isn't widely accepted and has rebuttals, but based on my research, we can't rely on that DNA. And there are other problems with the study that you could find online if you want to link into it. But there are no simple answers to the paperwork problem. Stacey Harris vanished 45 years ago. David filed a records request for her file and got denied. Under an exemption meant to protect active criminal investigations. A missing 14-year-old girl from 1981 is somehow still an open criminal case. He asked for a list of everyone missing across the park system. They told him it would cost $1.4 million, or that no list exists. A cop asking for those files shouldn't have to fight this hard. And look, the list exists. I think the government is lying. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. David Politis isn't telling you aliens are abducting people. He never claims anything is paranormal. He lays out the cases and lets you decide. What he wants is the day the government won't release, and that's a cop's instinct, not a believer's. Whether it's something strange in the woods or a system that won't count its own missing, the real story is the same. We can't get a straight answer from the government. His books and films are at missing4111.com. The newest are on Amazon. Three are free on 2B. If you're vanishing the wild story, interest you. Watch your episode on Kenny Beach. He walked into the mahabi looking for a cave and never came out. It's a great story. Until next time, be safe, be kind, and know that you all appreciate it. I love my UFOs and paranormal bars as well as mirrors in, so I'm saying I'm a lie guy. I feel the crack at end, got stuck inside my home, with them chaos truck, I'll be in only two hours. Dude stand, look you've hit the moon landing alone, on a film set, I wear the shadow people there. The rough weather is just for the smiling man, and I'm told, and his name was Cone. I can't believe, I'm dancing with the fishy, and the fish are Thursday night, Wednesday day two. And when I have to be off to the night, all I ever wanted was to just see the truth. So the one falls on my feet all through the light. [Music] The mouth man's sight in front, the solar storm still come, to a god, the stupid city underground. Mysterious number of stations, when it's supposed to crack, it's dark gay, and where the dark watchers found. I feel a simulation, don't you worry though, with the black nights at the light, it told me so. And the fish are Thursday night, Wednesday day two. Mysterious number of stations, when it's supposed to crack, it's dark gay, and where the dark watchers found.