The Art of Wine Travel: Expert Tips from Vintage Departures' Candice Mathis

[MUSIC] Well, hello, and welcome to The Wine Access Unfiltered Podcast. It is still season four, but we are now into episode two, all about wine and travel. One of my favorite things to do, baby, my favorite thing to do actually. And I think it's probably my guest favorite things to do. And if you're listening to this podcast, it might be your favorite thing, which is essentially why we think this whole season around wine and travel. Last episode we talked about Napa Valley, and I mentioned that we will be kind of hitting on a few different wine regions, we'll go into cities. But I also mentioned just sort of general wine and travel advice, which is really what we're going to be focusing on today. So if you are thinking about looking at trips somewhere, if you are curious about how travel is different when you are a wine lover, whether that's in a city or in a wine region. If you're just like, hey, I want to listen to two gals chat about their wine and travel experiences, you have come to the right place. We will be your guides and all things wine and travel today. And if you are sick of those two words, maybe it's time to tune out because we're about to get real deep into it. I enlisted one of my favorite people in the planet, a person that I have actually experienced wine and travel with in another region who I just adore. And she's wonderful and she's fun. And she knows this space super, super well, both because of her Instagram that focus on wine and also because of her company, vintage purchase that focuses on wine and travel or she plans and plots and helps people navigate their itineraries and builds their itineraries. And she can tell you lots of the things that she does. But really, she's just such an expert in this space that I felt like, you know what, before we get any further, it's time to bring Canvas into the conversation. So please welcome to the show. Canvas, now this. How are you? Hi, thank you so much for having me. Such an honor. My favorite soup buddy. Yes, we love a soup. My other things. Among other things, we shared many experiences. You and I have had the pleasure of traveling together. On plan, we didn't know that we were going to meet on this trip, but it bonded us for life. And I'm so grateful for that experience because now you're just such a great friend. Absolutely. Same, same. Best thing about the trip, to be honest. We will talk about the trip. We will reference the trip because that trip was iconic in a lot of ways. I will not go into the specifics of where it was, but we will call it a lesson learned trip. A lot of takeaways from that trip. A lot of things that I think when you experience what we experienced, you first of all, you can never forget it. But also, it's one of those things where you learned so much from the mistakes that were made and that was invaluable, honestly. 100% learned what not to do, but a lot of great things came out out of it as well. Sometimes your trips are poorly planned and executed, but you meet great people and still have a good experience somehow. How many regions do you think you visited at this point in your life? You're very experienced. That's a good question. So, yes, I am, but I repeat myself a ton. I find something I live and I do it over and over. So I am trying to branch out a bit. I used to live in San Francisco. So, Napa was in my backyard and Sonoma is where I got married and I just spent so much time there. My husband's not a drinker, so we would take day trips, and he would eat all the food and I would have all the wine. So I really got savvy then and just realized, like, this is for me. I don't know why or how, but this is for me. So I love Napa and Sonoma, obviously, it's just right here, but travel a ton to France. And recently, I finally got to experience northern Italy during harvest. So, just, you know, I've been to Northeastern Spain, Catalonia, the UK, Sparkling Wine Regents there. Just, you know, I'm trying to branch out, but I do end up going back to to Burgundy and champagne quite a bit. I still have never done Burgundy or Champagne, so you'll be the first person that I call and that I feel like it needs to happen this year. I don't know how to not happen thus far, but you have one of the more enviable Instagrams. I love watching. Well, okay, I love watching where you go, but I also love watching how you travel with your family because you often bring your, has been and your daughter along, and that's really fun to see, and something I definitely want to touch on because I get, I don't know, you are, I get also the time, like, is this place child-friendly? And that's always kind of a weird question for me to answer, because I'm never traveling with children, so I don't really know. So I'm curious your take. No, absolutely. I mean, you know, lots of places, especially in Europe, are kid-friendly, but I think, you know, you know, you're child. My daughter is Nixon. She's been traveling to wine regions, you know, pretty much all over the world since she was born, so I think she knows how to act, and she's actually truly interested now, which is super cute to see that develop. So I think, like, yes and no, a lot of places can be. I think in Europe, there's no like hard stuff, like, no, you cannot bring children, but I think it's more of a something that's understood where you're going to be touring caves. There are going to be spiders. There's going to be a lot of walking, and it's dirty, you know, there's going to be a lot of like boring wine talk that maybe they don't want to sit there for, but she loves it. And I think it's just because we've been doing it since she was so young, and so she has a real interest in wine, to be honest. I have to watch my wine around her because I don't always trust her. Yes, Nixon. I know. She's good for a pinky, and like, okay. Yeah, we, I have, I have an easy enough, you, they haven't. Well, actually, that's Ontario Pippa has started to like be curious about the wine. And Harlan is, he's, he's curious that he really only likes to smell it, but they're very good at kind of like, stressing out the smells and yeah, you know, I find if you, if you can like get them to lock in for like two seconds or like, they're interested in the, yeah, and they retain the info. And it sticks. There's nothing clouding it. There's nothing that came before that, you know, so she is, you know, really great at telling the difference between like a cabin up in a car, which I don't know that I was able to do that until my late 20s, you know, I'm still struggling, honestly. Just, you know, it's pretty incredible what happens when you are starting them young. It's obviously not about the alcohol at all. That's not even something that they've considered. It's just a part of my life. So she's taken interest. And and now we're on to the caviar, which, you know, introducing them to the finer things in life. I don't know that I recommend. I hear you. I naturally. You do a whole episode on caviar. And I mentioned to Shelching Bishop, who was, she's going to read this over a caviar with Thomas Keller. And I mentioned to her that the needs and that you are very into caviar. And she was like, yeah, this has become a thing. There's lots of kids that are into caviar. And so I don't know what that means for that market at large. I know it's good for good for these kids. I do not want to caviar until much later in life. Yeah, same. I want to push into wine travel and how we're doing it differently. And so one of the reasons that we are really doing this season is because I, and I'm sure you did too, just sort of notice that like we do travel differently. People who love wine travel differently and it really doesn't matter whether you're in a wine region or whether you're in a city. Like we just tend to plan and do things a little bit differently. So I want to start with like what do you think that wine lovers need from a trip that other travelers don't? I mean, I personally am very passionate about food and wine. When I travel, I seek out, you know, not just the best, most luxurious experience, but more the culture. I want to fully experience the culture. And for me, it's through wine and food or the drink of choice in the country. So yeah, personally, I start with wine and food. And that's where my passion lies. And so that's kind of how my entire company was developed. I was starting to really get into wine and study it more formally. And then I realized that I'm probably never going to work in like the real hospitality, restaurant side of it ever again. I just don't want those hours. But the travel was just like a natural organic thing that came with the knowledge because my wine preferences and my food preferences were changing. And when I visit a place, I don't necessarily check off a list. I truly will have a few things in mind that I'd like to do or see or, you know, a wine maker that I would like to visit, those types of things. But I really just want to like go with the flow, embrace the culture, eat good food, chat with the locals. You really have to leave some space open as a person that's in, you know, the wine space because you may be invited back to like the wine makers mother's house for, you know, a nice, something that's not imported in the US. And it's just I, those experiences are everything to me. And you can't really plan for those. So leaving some time open, not having a full list of things you want to check off just, yeah, leave it in a little time for the unexpected. No, I think you're right. We actually touched on this a little bit in Napa because with our Napa episode, because it's so true, like when you go to a restaurant and you find a bottle of wine, when you're in a wine region, especially you just never know who's going to be around you. You don't know what doors are going to open. And because these wine communities are often so small and so interconnected, it often leads to these serendipitous moments that you cannot plan for. There is not a travel guide or a concierge in the world that can open some of these doors that just happen to pop open because you're there and in the right place three times. So I do think Spontaneity is key. But how much are you planning? So are you, let's say you're going to like champagne. Yes. Right? Are you, are you starting with like, I'm going to go, I really want to visit this one champagne house and that's going to be my Monday and I know where I'm going to go for dinner. Like are you literally just planning like those two things and letting everything else fly or are you how deep are you going? So I do like to leave a ton of time open, especially if I'm traveling alone or with just a close friend, adults. But I will usually visit some friends there in the wine world. So I'll always start there and then I'm like, where should we go today? And you know, it's, they probably don't have any reservations. So can you hook us up and like get us in and things like that because they know what's best. It's just like going to a restaurant where even though I know what I like, I know the wines I drink, I know what I prefer, I feel like talking to the Psalm at their restaurant is so important. It's the same thing to me, you know, this is the city they live in and they work in and you know, they're probably fifth generation. So they've been here a very long time. They may own the restaurant down the road, you know, it's important to me to leave that space open where I can ask them like, where should I go? But if I'm traveling with my family, we do tend to have more of a tidy, you know, itinerary. But again, we don't check off boxes. We're not touristy people. With my daughter, you know, there are some things that she likes to do and see or she'll tell someone she's going somewhere. So like every once in a while we'll do something like that for her. But just like having some space in the itinerary so that we can, you know, just drop in or get advice or wrecks on the ground. What about for clients? Because I know that's a really big part of what you do with vintage department is this building itineraries for clients. So how does that change for clients? And obviously not everyone's going to be the same. But I assume you're planning a bit more with them. Are you starting with like hotels and restaurants? Are you starting with wineries? Yeah. So I'm not planning trips typically for wine professionals. I feel like that's those are things we do ourselves. But my clients are interested in learning more about wine. They are interested in food. That's how they find me. That's why, you know, they come to me for these things. But it depends on the trip. If you know, you want a more tidy itinerary, you're going to go somewhere like Napa or Champagne or Bordeaux. If you're heading to a wine region, those places pretty carved out, easy to plan things. Not saying you can't have special experiences there because you definitely can. And that's part of what I do is create experiences that like you can't go online and book yourself, which is the best part of what I do. But if you want that tidy experience and you do have a list of things you want to check off because there are places like if I have a client coming from the middle of the country and they you know, they want to they've been drinking this wine for 10 years and they want to visit, you know, it's usually a very popular place. And so we do that. Absolutely. It's important to see that. But, you know, if they want off the bean path, things my job gets harder. But it also for me is what I love, you know, we'll go to Burgundy. We'll, you know, have to pull some resources and figure out some things. But we can do both. I plan both. And usually they're not, you know, people in the wine space. They're really just they want to be or they are very interested in learning more, you know, what's out there. There's so much to be learned. And I think that's a huge part of what I want to talk about in this episode is what is your intention for this trip? And I think maybe starting exactly like starting with that. I think when people start planning trips, they're like, oh, I want to go to Wardow, I want to go to Champagne, I want to go to Germany. But if you don't take a step back to figure out exactly what you want out of this trip, whether that's like relaxation or education or to learn about new producers, like you can't have elements of all of those things, I think it's just really important to know what you want the outcome of that trip to be. And that kind of brings me to some of the lessons learned with our trip together. Sure. Which made it problematic. There was just sort of a lack of trying to figure out what we were trying to gain from this trip. And I think because of that, we were trying to do so many different things. We were doing educational things. We were doing kind of like rough and tumble. There was kind of like an outdoor-resie thing. Like we were trying to do a lot of different things that seemed like it was giving you like a really broad overview of this region that we were in. But nothing was comprehensive. Nothing was cohesive. Nothing was working. And it made it feel very just jointed. And it was like, it was a good learning lesson for me to be like, hey, when you're traveling somewhere, it should be pretty clear from get go what it is you want. So, you know, whether that's staying at Nyso Tels, whether that's going to Nys restaurants, eating great food, like those were things that were my takeaways. What were some of your learning lessons? So, you know, I feel like when I plan an itinerary, wine regions are sprawling. They are huge, you know, massive even Napa for instance. There are points of Napa that especially during busy season can take you over an hour to get from A to B. So, I think that's why it's so important for someone like me who knows the area to plan a trip not only geographically, but also understands the seasons where there are certain times of the year you cannot make a left turn in Napa to get to your next destination. It's such a good, that's such a great. And it's so true. And so understanding the seasons, understanding traffic, understanding, you know, just geography for me, that was the biggest issue with that trip that we were on was for one, I just felt like it was pretty thrown together. They did not have a goal, which is unfortunate because I feel like the wine region itself deserved a lot of attention. There were a lot of great things about it and a lot of great things came out out of it. You know, wine people are my people like meeting you, was so awesome. We laughed, we cried, it was great. We did, yeah, we did. And it was, you know, I don't think of it as like this awful thing. I kind of just laugh at it now, but it does just show you what not to do. And I think you're right, it's just that starting point of, okay, how are we going to organize this? What's our goal with it? Who's coming? What do they want out of it? What do we want them to show the world? You know, what are they doing here? And I think, you know, outside of travel, we are, well, at that point, every sense of the word, content creators, and there was just like no time for that, especially at the level that we create content. And a lot of these trips to our, you know, planned through partnerships. So when you rush something and you're just trying to fit partners in and you just, things just were so chaotic and it got so crazy and, you know, you have to consider whether if you're going to plan out, do or see things, there's a lot that goes into planning a trip to a line region. And I do think whether is a bigger factor in a wide region than maybe any other style of trip. Like, you know, this, it was a rainier season. And so that, you know, it makes you feel colder, right? You don't necessarily want to be outside experiencing the elements. You might want to be more indoor. You might want to be doing like a cooking class. And so I do think that understanding whether weather patterns ever wind regionally, having maybe an expert to help you. The other thing is just like look at a map. I mean, like, it's just, yeah, so even absolutely. I mean, just start there. And you know, obviously maps are going to show you traffic and things like that. Oh, really? Seasonal change and traffic, things like that. But, you know, some wineries are best and they're, they're amazing during the summer because they have this amazing yard. But then in the winter, they have a small little dark dim room that you don't want to visit. So like, just knowing those things, you know, you can go online and read reviews all day. But you may not ever understand that the reason this is so amazing is because it has this beautiful outdoor area that probably sucks in November or whatever, you know, there's a lot of planning that goes into it because of those reasons. And, you know, wind regions, they are seasonal. So a lot of the weather can be predicted. You can kind of guess what maybe it's going to look like. Yeah, I mean, there's, there's very few exceptions in wind regions where like the weather isn't going to be what it usually is, you know, like every now and then you've got weird, fluky things that happen in Burgundy. You've got weird fluky things that happen in Champagne. But like, Napa Valley, Northern California is fairly consistent. Like, you know that the rain is going to be there in the winter months kind of sporadically. It doesn't mean that it's not nice. It's really lovely to be there even when it's raining. But then you know that come spring, it's going to be fairly dry and lovely and you know that there's going to be those diagonal shifts and you know from, totally, from day to night. And so just kind of like planning accordingly is so important. I'm curious because I know you're kind of a hotel early like me. How important do you think hotel choices when you're visiting a wine region specifically? It's important, yes. I think when I travel with my husband, we travel very differently because he has a different list of priorities. I think kind of juggling that luxury with, you don't want a generic experience, you want to also feel like you're embraced in the culture and not missing out on things because it's just too cut and paste. I do love a good four seasons. Don't get me wrong. I like, I don't like to guess what how I'm going to be sleeping and what type of service I'm going to be getting. I do love that. But I also love a good B&B. There's a favorite one that I always stay at in Burgundy that is truly just a little gem of a place. And it is luxurious in every sense of the word. The prices do not match the experience in my point of view. But it's not a place for my husband because he wants a certain type of travel. So it's important to me, but as long as it's clean and has good service, then coffee. Good coffee is important. A coffee experience. I don't think I realized how important hotel choice is. And I'm not even talking about four seasons. I'm just talking even down to the difference between lamping and a wine region versus a B&B versus a Marriott. They're all really different. And I think it goes back to really trying to figure out what is the intent. If you want time at your hotel because you want relaxation and trip and you want like a massage experience and you want something that feels very predictable in the best way, you should prioritize a four seasons. That's probably for you, right? Absolutely. Yeah, it depends on your goal for the trip. If you're spending a ton of time in the room, you're going to want something comfy. I tend to travel-- I said, travel very differently than my husband. But I can definitely appreciate just not having unexpected situations. I don't like to go somewhere that's haunted. Oh, yes. You can get in those two. We've been there. I just-- Right. If they've written stories about it being haunted, it's not for me. And usually those places are charming and cute and amazing. But it does freak me out. Some people love that. They go there just for that. So it's like knowing your client and I have all sorts of clients. However, I will say traveling to Europe and older places, wine regions. If you're doing the BMB thing, you're probably staying in an older building. So you have to consider those things. It's spooky sometimes. You never know, yeah. I've heard some stories. Sometimes there's not enough wine and shartries to get you through the night, you know? No, there's too much. Despite those intentions. I think Napavelli has now some of the best hotels in wine regions. But I'm curious where you think the best hotels in wine regions are. Yeah, I mean, Napa is definitely-- if we're going for the hotel experience-- Yes. --two that my husband love, who we have established, what type of hotel-- Has great news. --a great-- --love. And I hate to say this because we-- it's probably going to get super busy on your podcast. But the Royal Champagne, which is no secret, would exist. And I'm sure you've been there. The Royal Champagne. The Royal Champagne and Champagne. Oh, that's great. --his favorite hotel to date. OK. The four seasons in Napa, we loved. We stayed there a couple of years ago. It was brand new, so working out some kinks. But four seasons experience all the way. I love the old bears there. I love Carneros, where I stayed when I got married. It's-- there are just some beautiful, luxurious properties there that are hard to beat. Yeah. I do think Napa is one of those places that you can really lean into luxury. And you can do-- you don't have to pack your day full of things like you can pack your day with two or three wineries and still really enjoy the hotels. But I have never stayed at the four seasons in Kelsoga. But I have stayed at Meadowwood. I've stayed at Aliewa. I stayed at-- and they're all really nice. Like I've had great experiences there. I will say that like it's a very different vibe and they don't have the luxury that Napa does. But like the hotel scene in Paso has gotten a lot better. I don't know the last time you were there. But-- I haven't been. I haven't. You haven't? It's on the list. I know. That's so crazy. I know. Paso is so great. Shy. I love-- I love visiting there. I've gone-- it's one of the few rinogens that I will just keep going back to because I think-- they just-- they do-- like, it's not really California Central California. But they do, like, what feels like Northern California really well. And it just feels like very whimsical and easy. And the hotels are like pretty budget-friendly for the most part. Yeah. It's easy to get around. Like, it's not a huge region. And then they also have like all of these other experiences outside of just wine tasting, which to me is kind of like where Napa fails a little bit. There's not a ton to do. Like, there's things to do. You can do the hot air balloons. You can do a handful of classes here and there. But I think Paso really crushes Napa in that they have like, sensorio. And there's tons of things to do beyond wine tasting. When you're booking for people, are you booking things that are not just wine tasting? Are you looking for those other experiences? Rarely. Yeah. It's very rare. It's all about the wine tasting in Napa for the most part. And again, Paso has been on my radar for years. And I think I almost planned a trip last year. And it didn't sort out in the line with my schedule. But definitely have to get there. I hear it is pretty cool. Where have you been that has kind of surprised you? Alba. Alba. OK. So Alba and Pimanin in the way? Yes. Yes. It was just shockingly-- I mean, obviously, the food's going to be good. You know that already. The wine's going to be good. It was harvest. Our hotel. We were shocked. And I'm blanking on the name. I'll have to get back to you. We'll put it in the description. It's nice. Yes. But looking at Maun. And we were inexpensive. And a Maun that's like reasonably priced, that is-- Yeah. We had so many plans. We were just so excited. We just wanted to eat and eat meat. And we were like, we don't want to leave our hotel. Alba and Harvest, which I guess you were there in September October. Yes. So trouble season was underway. Everything. Yeah, trouble season. Lots of picking happening, wine making happening. We visited. We really didn't visit very many wineries. So we went to Borgono. And I had the Dirtona. I can't. I love the Dirtona. From its birthplace, which was cool. But yeah, we shockingly loved our hotel so much. We didn't do much. So we actually canceled a lot of plans and just ate there, and went to the pool. And it was great. I will for sure be finding out what this hotel is. And then I will decide whether or not I'm going to share this with them. I know. Yeah, I know. I know. That's a great tip. I have never done "Piedmont." I've gotten super close. In fact, I was just because of the Olympics drooling over being back in Maun, which I was going to pretty regularly. And I think it's maybe a good question for you. Because I like doing this. Maybe you disagree. I like landing in a-- because normally, you're not flying directly into the winery gym. Sure. For the most part, mostly you're flying in the city. And then you have to get out into it. But I love flying into a city, spending a few days, and then getting out into the winery gym. Do you have opinions on doing a combo trip? Or are you like, I just like to lean into one? Yeah, no. We love a bit of city life. We like to shop and experience food in the city. It's fun. It's energetic. And also, once we land, we're ready to settle for a bit, usually. But landing in Maun and going out to Alba, the flight's much longer. But in some ways, it feels easier than going to Napa and Listerflying into Santa Rosa. Because if you land at SFO, the drive whenever you land, can be a day. Can be a whole day, not literally. But it's just a lot. Landing in Alba, you can take a train out there for the most part, or we rented a car, and it was less than an hour. And I just was-- we stayed two nights in the city. We actually went to Formula One. And yeah, it was awesome. We loved Maun. It was our first time in Maun. We had a few more days here. But then we drove out to the countryside. And we're like, OK, this is actually so nice. So we got a little bit of both. I like a good combo of city and little countryside. I do, too. And I think it helps to-- especially because the cities are so informed by their surrounding regions, that if you were-- I think it always a great example of this. if you're trying to get a sense of that. culture and the identity of the region, starting in the city where everything's just kind of like together and you can kind of get a nice little sampler pack before you get out. And start to dig in is a great way to go. I know it can feel maybe a little daunting for people to travel to Italy. I know some people really like, you know, being on tour, lead trips, some people go to the cruise route. I love hearing that you did your own driving. I think trains are amazing in Italy and all over Europe and one of the things that you should definitely take advantage of because they're so easy just watch your belongings. But as someone who's driven through Italy, how do you find that as a tourist? So I didn't drive. My husband did. That's okay. I'm asking your princess and have a cooling. I'm always passing to Princess because again, he doesn't drink, which is shocking to most people. But yeah, so we take the train all over Europe. I think it's important. My daughter does travel pretty luxurious and I feel like it's one way that kind of builds a little grit. It's hard sometimes. It doesn't always work out. It's not easy. It's, you know, it's watching your things like you were saying. It's like being aware of your surroundings, getting on there, making sure you're on the right train. We've taken the wrong train before and got really lucky. It was going to the same destination. I just feel like it's good to do that. And once you do it often, you do figure it out. And then it's just the best thing in the world because you can get to so many places, much quicker than a car. Safer, in my opinion, in a lot of ways. But we really wanted to run a car in Alba because exploring that part of Italy was a bit trickier. There aren't a lot of regional trains running to the places we wanted to go because he doesn't drink. It just felt like we could explore the countryside a bit easier. And then we returned it at the train station and we went to like Garda on a train. So we didn't drive really through Italy. We just took that like one hour detour down to Alba. But, you know, it's not for the faint of heart. You do have to figure out some things. I would say steady up on it a bit. He did a good job. My husband did it through Umbria. We were we rented a car. And I will say like it's it is nice to like have your own vehicle and be able to you know go to places on your own volition. But it does add a layer of stress. And I think for those of you who are thinking about like especially if it's your first time to Italy, I do think that like getting a guide or using the train or like hiring someone to take you around. I do think that's the better route initially. You know, a lot of these roads are marked super well. They're likely in a language that you may or may not speak or read, which is challenging. And then, you know, I just I don't know about you, but we always for some reason we're always fighting with the rental car companies in Europe about like weird scratches and dents. And I just cannot be bothered. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've heard that for sure. We were a little bit concerned. Thank Philly. We didn't really deal with any of that. It was pretty seamless in our experience, but I've heard that that can happen more often times than not to be honest. And I think it's because they maybe take advantage of it of Americans. It definitely feels that way. And not like I don't know. No, absolutely. You know, talk about a whole region of that way or whole country. But like it has been our experience that it can have lately. Yeah, I'm going to get out of there. Take all the photos. I take full photos, videos, all the things. I mean, I feel like that goes without saying in most places to rent a car, but like, yeah, just know that it's yeah, it's likely going to happen. And this is especially during like peak tourist season. I want to talk because you are my most fashionable friend. And I know that this is something that you do for your clients upon request is you will like you'll style them. You'll help them like, you know, plan what to pack. How does traveling to wine regions or cities change your wardrobe choices? Well, it depends on the wine region. Obviously, you know, packing for a full champagne trip might be a bit different than packing to go to Napa where you're drinking camps all day. I've also heard champagne is kind of like they're a little fancier like you have to they are dressed for champagne. Just I would say just sheaker very put together in Napa. It can be a little more opulent. People like to dress up. Napa has restaurants where, you know, women are full makeup and, you know, dresses and hats and doing the whole thing. And I would say she and paint is just like put together. And you can wear a lot more neutrals there because you're not you're not there's no risk of spilling like a Napa travel over yourself. You know, it just depends on where you're going. And what time of year it is we obviously consider that if we're dressing from day to night there is the diurnal shift in most wine regions where it does get significantly cooler at night. Depends on if we're traveling through the country by train and we're packing lightly, you know, a couple layers. But for my clients personally, I do I get a good feel for their own style, but really I pack them in similar ways for Napa and champagne, which would just be you know good, basic, solid, like put together pieces and some nice layers because you want like a jacket and you know those types of things. Yeah. That is the one thing that I the one thing that I always see especially in Napa is like the shoot ladies. What are we doing? Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's funny because Napa you typically pretty much are always walking through a vineyard at some point during your tasting days. In champagne, you may not ever even see a vineyard. You may you know fly straight in and go to drink wine in a cave, you know, you just don't know, but I personally always wear a comfy shoe because I never know where I'm going to end up. I hope I end up on terrain that's rocky and scary because that means I had a special experience. I don't want to in any way like deter anyone from asking me to do that, you know, so I always dress for the experience that I want to have and yes, I want to go into the vineyard. Yes, I want to go into, you know, the chalk caves. So yeah, the special experiences often live where your heels cannot go unless you wear yes. Extract, well, we did see one instance in one region where someone was wearing heels with a vineyard, but yes, well, and I see it all the time. It looked painful. It looks like I'm just like, I'm just constantly nervous. You're going to break an ankle and that is coming from your heels. A lot. So yeah, shoe choice is key. I also feel like the, you know, I love my hats, but like your big floppy hat isn't necessarily necessary in order to get like, despite what the bloggers will tell you, you know, I yeah, I had as nice, but not necessary. I agree. I don't think you're out in the sun for too long for that to matter. So it is really just about the appearance. So if you want to keep up with it and you want to do that whole thing, do it. Yeah. But if you don't have any room for it in your luggage, you're not, you're not missing out on anything. It's fine. You can leave it at home. Yeah, I personally love a chic flat. I think it's one of my favorite things to wear in wine country, but you know, some people love their heels. So yeah, risk it all. Do what you will. Yeah, even like a like a nicer like sneaker like a leather sneaker is always yes. I great way to go. A little boot is nice. So many good options. So many good options that don't require you to break an ankle. I, it just occurred to me that I've been sipping this wine for, I don't know, the past 45 minutes and have not acknowledged its presence in this episode. First of all, cheers to you. I'm so, so happy that we're finally getting to be this. Me too. So great. So I chose this wine for our episode. For a myriad of reasons. So we're drinking a Sanser Rouge, which for those of you who are part of the wine club and you saw this wine, you're like Sanser. I love Sanser and then you open and you're like, what the heck? This is red. It is a Sanser, a red Sanser, which yes does exist. You mostly are used to seeing white Sanser, which is made from something a long grape coming from the lower valley region and France, which is one of the most beautiful wine regions in France. But they make, you know, a little bit of Puebloire and it's delicious and highly underrated and also given that we are in the, the almost there stages of February, which means I'm eating a ton of soup in this frozen tundra that I am living in right now. This is one of my favorite soup wines, which is why I chose it. It's a no. I love that. So many good soups. It's very light-bodied, but it's got like, great crunchy fruit. It's got a little like, vibrancy and acidity and so anything like I just had super lunch. So I had a beef, barley, vegetable soup that this was delightful with. I had this way of Italian wedding soup. This is also delicious like rose chicken, which is what's on the menu for tonight. So like all of these foods that I'm eating in winter are what goes with my Sanser. Are you familiar? I assume with like a little bit of red Sanser. Yes, I have had a couple of red Sansers and it's typically because I bought them by accident because if you look at the bottle, you really do have to turn it around. You can't tell that it's red. I mean, maybe it looks a little different there, but you're looking at it. You're like, "Oh, yeah, it's a white wine and a dark bottle." And then you open it and you're like, "Oh no." But it's delicious. It's so good and and, and, expecting. But it does say, Pinot noir on the very back. So if you are shocking, force on Sarah, it might be worth wild and turn it around and make sure it's, you know, Pinot noir or, you know, if you wanted a Savion Blanc then. But I haven't seen any of these locally in probably two years. Yeah. By the way, it was in the white wine section. So I bought it, brought it home and I had to call them. I'd be like, you have to get that out of the white wine section people are buying this. They can whoever stalked it didn't even know. So a little tip. Just to your point, it doesn't say even though I called it Sanser Rouge. It does not say Sanser Rouge on the front. Anywhere on this bottle it just says Sanser. Yeah. You know, that's obvious reason. Yeah. Tricky tricky. Well, I hope you like it. I love it. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So you haven't been to Paso. Where else have you not been that's on your list? I would like to spend more time in Kiyanti. I really want to explore more of Italy. I went down for like lunch one day. We were saying pretty close. So we didn't get to do very much while we were there. So I'd like to spend more time there. So that's next on my radar. I'd like to go back to Argentina. Spend more time in Mendoza. I went on a wine trip, maybe 2021. And really just focused on one winery. And so I'd like to go back and explore more. It was incredible. Very surprised. It was another place that really surprised me. It was, yeah. I don't know what I expected it to be. It felt at the time I had never visited Spain, but it felt very European and Spanish from, you know, my understanding. It was great. It was a really great time. Those are two really great places. I think if you haven't done a wine trip, like I think Kiyanti and Mendoza are two great places to start if you don't want to start in the US. Okay. Kiyanti is very cute. There's lots of little towns. You can stay in if you are a scared of haunted hotels. Definitely to your research. Yes. There's a lot. Most of the ones that I think I've stated have felt a little like, they're in as old as there. But I thought Mendoza, it was like, it was nice because you're staying for the most part in the same time zone. Like you're not shifting too hard even that's a long flight. But it's also nice because it feels very like for lack of a veteran tourist friendly. Like, yeah, they're really set up to have visitors where like Europe is, they're getting there, they're definitely better than they used to be. But like Mendoza really wants visitors, like at their libraries are happy to have you there. There's a huge Italian influencer. You can have some of the best gelato and lasagna of your life in Mendoza, which is kind of a wild experience. But you should definitely eat all the beef and empanadas when you're there. That is absolutely delicious. What do you think that people should stop doing immediately when they're building it in areas or going on my trips? Maybe not working with someone who knows the lay of the land. Like I was saying, geographies big seasons are big. If you are traveling to off the beaten path wine region, just not having the resources to go and have a good time because there's nothing you can book online yourself. Yeah, just not using a planner who knows what they're doing. I think is the biggest mistake because it's not really an expensive fee. It just truly pays off to have the experience behind something like this. It's not just the itinerary, it's the building of it. It's the spacing of experiences. It's the experiences themselves. It's knowing that this winery is better in the summer, and this one's better in the winter. Or you can't make a left turn out of here so you can't go to Opus 1 next. Just things like that. I mean, there are all these little nuances to an itinerary that make it perfect. Most people maybe get to do this once every five years. It's true. Make it worth it. Yeah. Make it look for you. I think you're right. It's the nuances where people get tripped up. I mean, you and I have been to how many different regions between the two of us. I've lost track. I can't tell you a single place that I've gone to thus far and gone like, oh, that went exactly how I thought it was going to be. Totally. It never happens. It's like for as much research as I've done, you've done all the books that I read, all the videos that I watched, all the Instagrams that I've done, very rarely have I ever been somewhere that I've been like, yep, it's exactly what anticipated. There's always a price and I think it's not that I don't think it's great to have elements of surprise. But if you're doing wine travel and you want that spontaneity, it does require a level of planning to set yourself up for success. And to your point, having someone who knows those weird nuances of making lefts or not being able to turn it certain places or certain places being closed at weird hours, those are all invaluable tips that you will be so much better off for. What are we splurging on and what are we not splurging on? I think the hotel is always worth the splurge in my opinion. The travel planners worth the splurge, you know, it's life experiences. You can't get back. It's sleeping well. It's good service. I definitely think hotels are worth the splurge, especially now in my older age. I think when I was younger, it was different. I felt different about hotels maybe because I just didn't know any better. But now I understand the value of not only a comfy bed, but also the that being the place that sets the tone for the whole trip. And when that's not good, it can really ruin a trip. And it can really leave a bad taste in your mouth, especially when the hospitality isn't up to where you want it to be. You know, when things frustrate you when you're trying to sleep and relax, you know, at the beginning or at the end of the day, that's really tough to come out of. You can have an amazing day in a wine region or in a city. What if you come back and you're like, God, this hotel smells like my grandma's basement or like these towels are itchy. And like, where I asked for a housekeeping to come. I mean, never did. All those little things that maybe wouldn't normally matter to you, but on this bucket list trip, they do. That's, I do think that you're right. Where hotels make a big difference. That doesn't mean it has to be the four seasons, but you know, yeah, absolutely. There's great hotels that are budget friendly. There's actually, I'm really excited kind of about this new, they're not new, but I'm sure you're familiar with Polly House, which is a good Southern California brand. They just started opening the Patee Polly, which are like they've taken these older motels and like hotels that are a little older and they kind of put their shabby chic vibe onto them. And they're really nice, you know, they're not, they're not the four seasons, you're not going to get the super luxury amenities that you might have, you know, not mine or risk Carlton, but yeah, they reflect the vibe of their place. And that's the other thing. Like, I don't want something that's going to be in stark contrast to where I'm staying. Like, nothing wrong with the Marriott, but it's not where I want to stay if I'm in the middle of wine country, right? I want something to feel a little bit wrong. Not generic. Yeah, exactly. Totally agree. I do love the Polly House brand. We stayed at the Polly House every time we would visit L.A. for probably 10 years. And I do love what they're doing. And I actually just realized that they were starting to expand that Polly Hotel brand. And so, and there's one in Napa now. Yep. So yeah, excited to check that out and hear more about it. It looks really cute. We drove in. It looks, sleep is always worth a splurge in my opinion. And maybe it is just because I'm getting older and sleep is harder. And, you know, it's just an important thing for me. So I'll tell you what is not been worth a splurge. And I hate it really, I hate saying it. I have yet to have a great spot experience in a wide region. Maybe it's me, but I don't know. I've just, I've never had the only ones have I had like an amazing spot experience in Napa Valley and in other places. They've just been like, I don't know. I feel like if I go to a major city, they're awesome. When we were in Tokyo, had great spot experiences there. But if you are traveling to a place where it's maybe not there for a day, that's maybe somewhere to just not, which is shocking. Yeah, which is shocking. I agree. But maybe it's because a lot of it's seasonal, you know, they're seasonal. So the employees are probably not working year around. And so it's harder to get the better talent. You know, I just think like when you are visiting wine regions, sometimes they do have a high season and they do not employ the employees all year. So yeah, I think it might be a little bit more difficult to keep the good talent around. I don't visit a ton of spas whenever I'm on wine trips. I honestly just like fly by the sea to my pants. I feel like I can't waste time like that. I don't know what's wrong with me. I should probably slow down. I'm like, I have, you know, I just like I'm always like a little bit anxious and a little bit just like, so I should probably slow down and go to the spa. But I don't. So I can't speak to that. But I am assuming that's probably the situation that's happening because in cities they're just year-round employees. They've probably been there 20 years, you know. My feeling is like they're wildly overpriced for what it is and that's maybe that's my issue. It's like they're not they're not bad. They've all been like good. I've never been linked to someone, but it's always like God that was a lot of money. It was so expensive. Yeah. For something that should not have cost quite that much. That makes sense. That makes sense. You had higher expectations for sure. Which makes sense. Because the food is great, the wine is great, everything else is great. I want that to match and it just it always kind of falls short, which is disappointing. We have so much ground to cover on the travel front, you and I. We've only been to one wine region together. We have been trying to get to another one. Yes. The stars have not aligned for that to happen as of yet, but I'm fingers crossed it's going to happen. Yeah. I'm sure a lot of people are listening to this episode going I would like more Candace and I would like to know how she can find our wine trip for us. But not gonna make that happen. Yes. Well, you know, plenty of ways to reach me can go through Amanda. No, I'm joking. Just send me an email. I am see as in Candace at Vintage Departures.com. And you can just send me an email and we can get started. We can chat about it. Yeah. Oh, actually, I think one thing that I didn't bring up that maybe is really important is yes, you will plan these trips, but aren't there like you're like a you're an advisor for some of these. What is it called? Like the when people book like their hotels with you, they often get like perks, right? Yes. Yes. I have a ton of partners that I work with and we can give perks similar to what you might get with like an Amix Platinum except your bookings are direct with Amix and things like the Chase card. The bookings can go through a third party, but my bookings are directly with the hotel, so we often get favored. Lots of lots of fun perks there and lots of fun experience and I don't just book to wine regions, which are my favorite and specialty, but I book all over the world and especially if you're just like, Hey, I just want some perks. Then we can just book a hotel room and forget about everything else. Yeah, I do premium flights, international flight travel and I just brought on a company where we do we charter yachts in the VVI in St. Bart. So we're kind of all over the place, but we do still have a really strong focus on wine and food because that is how we we started. So yeah, it's been really fun. It's keeping me very busy. I you know would like to get back into my social media and show you guys what we've been up to, but it's been so crazy, which I am so grateful for. But these are great problems. I know. I know. I will say this, this like, I feel like this little perk thing is something that people don't know about and it's like free breakfast. It's like resort credits. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, early check in, like check out complimentary breakfast and some hotels have, you know, perks that are unique to them. Sometimes it's a free ride to and from the airport in like a luxury car. Sometimes it's a yacht experience, you know, if you're traveling to like Garda or things like that. So lots of unique perks, but our typical ones are, you know, early check in, like check out sometimes the resort credits for yourself. 300 dollars or more. It's like, yeah, they're great. So, you know, they differ by hotel, but it's the best part about it for sure. Well, I love that. And I'm fingers crossed that we will be in some word luxurious in the next few months or so. I hope so. It would make me very happy. Yeah. But until then, I will send you on your way and I will remind everyone that if they're not part of the Wide Access and Filtered Podcast. Wine Club, where you can drink with us and chat with us, or just listen to us because I'm doing the chat. Usually you can find everything you need in the description below, as well as everything you need to contact Candace at Vintage the Parchers. We'll link a lot of the things that we mentioned in the episode down there. And if you have any questions, you're always welcome to retell to us the Instagram or DMs. We'll be happy to respond to you and get back to you then. But I know you've got lots of planning and traveling to do so. I'm let you go with your sponsor for soup. Do you have any soup on the horizon? You know what? I think that's what I'm going to make tonight. Yes. I'll let you know. Okay. Soup in spell. Okay. Cheers. Nessa, see you. Cheers. Good to see you. Thank you.