The Art of Curation: Inside Kanopy’s Approach to Film Discovery

[MUSIC] Welcome to the No Film School podcast. This is Digi Hawkins. And today's episode is all about curation, discovery, and the evolving future of streaming for independent film, and film in general. As filmmakers, we spend a lot of time thinking about production and distribution, but not nearly enough time thinking about how audiences actually find meaningful work. In an ecosystem that's dominated by algorithms and endless content. And that's where today's guests come in. We're joined by Aaron Spears, a programmer at Canopy and Matt Lewis, who oversees marketing for the platform. Canopy has been one of the most interesting spaces in streaming, a platform built around libraries and universities that prioritizes thoughtful curation, educational value, and independent cinema alongside the classics, documentaries, and just general storytelling. Today, we're going to talk about the art of curation and the streaming age and how Canopy decides what films to champion, what their audience is actually looking for, and why human taste and context still matters in a world that's increasingly shaped by recommendation engines. I am personally excited for this conversation because my debut feature I really love my husband is coming out on Canopy on June 19th, but also because we will get into how the platform works from both an audience and filmmaker perspective, what kind of film succeed on Canopy and why libraries might quietly be one of the most important access points for cinema today. So let's get into our conversation with Aaron and Matt. Welcome Aaron and Matt to the No Film School Podcast. Thank you for joining us. Oh, thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. We are, you first heard Aaron and then you heard Matt. So for our listeners to differentiate and for our listeners who may not fully know or be familiar with the platform yet, what exactly is Canopy and how does it differ from a subscription based streamer like Netflix, for example? Well, the big headline is it's free. Yes, and also no ads. So there's that part. Free and no ads is. It feels itself, right? It sounds itself. That's all we need to know. Thanks for being here. Well, the the astrosex to that is it's through libraries and universities. So it has to be from a participating library or university. And there's different kind of tiers of Canopy. There's like, it's budget-friendly for the libraries. It's the subscription service that libraries can offer the same way. Like I read, you know, New York Times movie reviews through my local library because they offer that for me or ancestry.com. It's digital service that your library can offer. So and it's growing too. So it's not like everywhere in the United States, but you know, we're getting there. No, and we offer over 30,000 titles and I we were both fans, Aaron, I both were fans of where we started working there. Well, let's use that as a perfect segue into how did you ultimately start working there. But let's start from the early days. What was your journey ultimately landing here working with Canopy? And we can start. We'll start with you, Aaron, and then we'll go to Matt. Oh, sure. Early early days, I don't know. I was that theater nerd in high school who invited people over for double features in my parents' house. So I got into film school and grad school because I was interested in film history and film programming as well. So, you know, with the video store in college, the staff picks section or I would give it the honor to give me end caps where I was like, oh, these are all great car chase movie. You know, that sort of stuff. So that really spoke to me and then working my way through college and my master's degree, I was the campus film chair. So I was programming there as well. You know, straight away, kid from Cleveland, like I worked with other groups on campus to like open my eyes as to what other films and experiences were out there. And then the bulk of that time kind of post-graduation was managing a six-screen art house theater for about 13 years. So I'm very immersed in that world, especially during the conversion from I started off 35 millimeter projection and by the time I left, it was all digital, unfortunately. I mean, it's fortunate, but I like that 35, I like that field. It's like the vinyl thing. I collect it for a reason. And then right, community, I was a children's librarian actually for a little bit. So it feels like you're at the intersection of community curation, old and new, figuring out how to preserve stories and perspectives and bring them to various audiences. And that's fascinating. I'm totally going to steal it. That was so eloquent and it's nice to what I just said. But yes, very much. It's very much a passion. And I'm, I could pay to do it now. So it's awesome. Amazing. How about you Matt? Yeah, it's so true. I feel like Aaron, I'm going to play co-pilot here because I feel like Aaron just has like a great like podcast voice, the better than beyond that. Also has like is way better at articulating everything. I could because he went back to high school days. I was not going to go that far back, but yeah, same thing. I mean, this is a film nerd growing up. My mom was also has always worked in the library system in Cleveland also, which is we're based. And so I've known about Canopy for quite a long time just because of her. But both of my experience was working in the entertainment industry in marketing. And then when my wife and I had her first child, we decided we've back home to Cleveland to be by family. And so I had no idea that Canopy was based in Cleveland. And so it's just kind of a happy accident being able to bring my love of, you know, cinema and film, but also just like big action movies too, bringing that love mixed with being able to kind of like market movies, but doing something good with that knowledge. You know, I still love marketing movies, but it's, it feels a little bit better doing it. Of those late nights and stuff when you're working for Canopy. It feels so definitely better. But yeah, that's how I kind of landed here two years ago now. Okay. So let's talk about what your roles are. Matt, you, you touched on this, but from the marketing side, can you talk about how you think about communicating Canopy's identity, but also the specific titles that you guys are selecting and how you get it out into the world? Yeah. I mean, for the marketing side, I honestly, when I first started, I wanted to be able to do some mini campaigns and really be able to dive into that catalog. It's so vast that like I use just like the quick social aspect of like Reels and TikTok to be able to kind of, I mean, yes, that's like what's trending now too, but also to be able to show our vast catalog. That's just like kind of like low-hing fruit that I really like to be able to do. But then also there's the aspect of the kind of like in-world marketing like GGU saw at Sundance, we did like our VHS pop-up store and like we're like, what if Canopy was a physical location? What would it look like? And so Aaron and I built the VHS pop-up store as well with a bunch of titles that premiered at Sundance. So I think the way we tackle it is looking at the catalog in sections a little bit too, where like what's popular and what's new? Where like the obviously this month is in June is Pride Month when we're recording this. And then you know, what can we look at in Pride Month, for example, to market? And ultimately making sure everybody's also represented all year long, all year long, especially like even on social pages. I think that's like really important too. So if you go to any of our pages and you just have a couple of scrolls, you should see somebody that looks or represents you as a person as well. So that's something that I'm big on as well. I love that. And it was something that I noticed that even Aaron, when you were in college, you were thinking about how do I bring different voices and perspective to the conversation and going out of your way to curate. So let's talk about what a content programing specialist actually does in the day to day. The internal world we have what is the pipeline. So acquisitions is out there acquiring all this great, you know, these great films from around the world, series from around the world, docs from around the world, everything. And then it goes to the pipeline and we pick out and then the programming team, it's all human curated. It's being three other colleagues, all with film degrees on all with library degrees. So we got the right columns on the job here for this one. And we put together a schedule, which is the most fun thing in the world because it's a weekly schedule. We publish between probably like, I would say roughly around 50 or so new titles a week, including your film coming up here too. And within that, we try to make sure like anybody that looks at just the new stuff that he can to be including new releases, but also a lot of catalog titles. There's something you're going to click play on like my mom is a, you know, retired lady in suburban Cleveland. She's not going to want to watch what I'm not. I don't want to watch this. So I want her to be able or someone like her to be able to push play. But then, you know, I watched, I watched street trash last night on canopy. My mom would never watch that movie. And I'll be sure to watch that movie. So like from the bonkers, you know, deep dive, synophiles out there to like my mom, everybody's going to be able to find something out there. And we also have a whole canopy kids section too. So as you know, that mentioned, he's got a little one already out and a little one on the way. There's content he can be sharing with his kids as well on there. And there's something about a granite. It's a streaming service, but there's something about still watching something communally that can bring people together or seeing that shared experience. I really like that. The Roger Ebert code about how film is like a great empathy machine and empathy generator. Like it can put you in someone else's experience. And I want to make sure that, you know, like, like I was saying, if you're just scrolling through the homepage any given week when you put the new stuff up there, something's either either looks like you feels like you or you're like, I want to experience that. This episode is sponsored by Sinatech. Pre-production can take a lot of time breaking down scripts, building shot lists, creating storyboards and planning your schedule. Sinatech speeds all of that up. You upload your script and it automatically generates a breakdown, create storyboard panels, build your shot lists and helps organize your schedule. You can even export a rough animatic to preview your film before production. It's a faster way to get from script to a production ready plan. You can try it for free at sinatech.ai/nofilmschool. That art of curation is something that I think is going to become more and more valued as we advance as a society. Obviously, we have seen seeing the negative outcomes of algorithms and how weirdly overwhelming it can be when something is so specific to who you are and what will cause you to take action. - Yeah. - And so I'm curious, how do you continue to implement that the philosophy of curated rather than targeted if that makes sense? And so every single choice in every single placement is determined by your team. Is that correct? - Yeah, I mean, it's literally like, click on the mouse and drag in the title to hear right there, both myself and one of my colleagues, when do you both work at video stores, tail end of that situation? I mean, I know there's still around. - Tail end of that situation. - Yeah. - Which they're not like a-- - We're bringing them back. - A little situation. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - I love the fact that it feels like you're still placing an out for someone to stumble across or to go across and to view it there. I mean, there's a lot to dive into on that one as well. Like, you know, the first point of contact you have with a movie, if you're getting the streaming world, is gonna be the poster. Like poster art is a huge passion of mine. I have many books behind me on the art of the poster art. And actually, I wanted to ask you Gigi about with your film as well. Like there's a style to poster art and there's a way to like make sure people are engaged. Like, you, so much is communicated, even in the library world, the book covers. I see a book, oh my god, that's the young adult fantasy novel right there. Like, even if you can't articulate it, there's a feel you get to it. So like getting a good poster art to be like, you know, with your, with your film, like, oh my gosh, this looks like kind of beach vibes, very vacation-y. Like, it's not a horror thriller, right? Like, it gives you a certain feeling. So, but then placing those various titles, like around each other also says something about even subconsciously the breadth of the collection. You know, this year movie is next to like, you know, I don't know, like Audity or something. Like, what's going on with this collection? What are we talking about within these? - Right. I really feel like browsing itself, this is probably the librarian in my head too. Like browsing itself should be a pleasure. - Yes. - That's interesting. I know there's decision fatigue out there, but I believe that that's the thing. I just don't experience it. Like, I can spend 40 minutes browsing some the library or online, and I'm a happy camper. I'll still find something to watch. But. - I love the idea of talking about cover art or the poster itself. Why am I calling it cover? I set a podcast here. - Well, I'm getting books too. So like, just look at the book. - Oh, yes, yes. That came in, and that was such an interesting thing from my perspective that I was learning about. And actually, we had a no film school listener, Adam Dallas Barnes, who designs posters for Sony. And he reached out and said, I basically put a call out saying, like, I'm trying to find a standing airplane set. Does anyone have anything? And he like shared a hookup that he had. And he's like, I also do posters. Like, let me do your poster. And we made, we designed the idea of the poster before we went to set. So we could then shoot on our last day, and he had sketched out some designs. And so it was very intentional. And there were a couple of other ideas we were thinking about. And I remember actually being that Sundance and showing a guy who works in distribution, a different poster, which was like something that we had used to clip, we have used to clip of it. But it's like all the three main characters, they are facing the ocean at the end of a dock. And one of them has their hands in the air. And the person was like, oh, it looks like they're together friends, morning, their friends' death. And I was like, that is so not the vibe of the movie. So it is funny how important that is in reaching your audience. Because another anecdote that I think so interesting is I went to the Cannes Marseille, which everyone assumed the movie. Everyone who's not in the industry was like, your movie got into Cannes and I'm like, no, it was at the Marseille with like 20,000 other movies. And you're seeing all these posters. And you're seeing how many films are out there and how many may never be discovered. But I looked out of wall and I saw a poster for a movie called Portal to Hell. And it's like a laundry machine with Portal to Hell. And immediately I was like, I get it. And then I ultimately ended up connecting with the director down the line. He's a buddy of mine. But it was like, oh, this makes sense. This horror brand, Raven Distributor Ravenbanner. And I'm going to mix up all this stuff. It makes sense that they would be-- they understand what that movie is. They understand how to market it. And yeah, actually, if you have any thoughts for our listeners, what should they be thinking about when it comes to their poster, for example? That's a really good question. Because there's some industry standards also we're talking about a streaming service perspective on a poster versus my personal one. If you have a star in it, you have to have the headshot. I kind of don't like those posters, but they do-- I'm going to be like, I'm picking on my mom. That lets my mom know that George Cluey's in this movie. Yeah, that's whatever. But at the same time, I kind of want more of a vibe communicated to me. I think it's also kind of a good rule for the art of the trailer as well. I don't need the whole plot laid out for me. Where you see a trailer and you're like, OK, I think I saw the movie. I'm good. Give me a vibe or a feeling. Communicate some of that to me. So I think if you could represent that with a poster, that really helps too. But there's also this color theory with that. Where you don't want to use certain colors on a poster if it's not the right genre. I don't know if you have one of the bigger ones we've had on K-Piles, a couple of years is the Taste of Things. And it features the period costumes and food. A lot of food, because it's all about the food and everything. Yeah. That's a really great one. Kind of doesn't matter who's in it to a certain degree. I mean, it does. I get it. But if you want that vibe, then this poster is telling you, this is for you. Yeah. I don't know, man. You've made a film and made a poster as well. So how do you go about that from a marketing perspective? What would you say you would catch your eye? I think the only thing you said is to me, it is the feeling that you want to convey the most. Like, Gigi, that movie you were talking about, sounds great. And I'm actually-- I'm absolutely going to go look it up as well. Later on. And so-- That came out, Sam. Yeah. That sounds great. You're the hostess in actual-- Oh, yeah. It's an insane movie. They made it for like a very tiny amount of money in Richard Kind plays the voice of Satan. Hi. I love everything you're saying. Yeah. That sounds great. Going back to what you were talking about a bit earlier, too, was just like the idea of like this hand curation stuff. I think there's a lot of talking. It can't be, which is what I like. And it's a lot of like film nerds. And I think it's something that like algorithmically can't tell you, because I feel like the things that we go and do, we then learn from, which I like a lot, too. Oh, this movie would work really well. This movie won't work really well. And then we learn in the data that it either does or doesn't. And then we learn from that experience, versus just asking the algorithm to tell us what is good and what is bad without any sort of human opinion as well. Which is, I think we're also the art form comes in, not only within film, but also within the posters. Also, I'm a big fan type, so I think a good type face. Yes, talk fonts. Yeah. Can we please? Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big, he'll have a fan. I don't care. I like it. It's great. New York subway system uses it for a reason. Yes. It's a classic. It's a classic. Aaron, you put your hands together. You were like, so excited. I did. Well, we have like the he'll have a good doc on, and can't be, I believe, which was like, like, oh, my God, a whole documentary about fonts. Yes. Please sign me up. I'm going to watch that. That's what I'm watching tonight. It's so good. It's so good. I think in my head, I am a big fan of graffiti, and there's some really great graffiti docs out there as well. And I think there's something that like, it catches your eye if, which is not a great font, I guess. If you can't quite read it, it's almost like a code. Or also, you have to decipher. But the idea that like a font has that much power within the world, like street art, that like, you can, like, oh, I know that tagger, you know, and you recognize it right but I think that could also translate over to films as well. Or if you have a certain type of font, it also equals a certain, like, you know, if there's a, there's a down-abbie movie they're not gonna use like a graffiti font. Like it just wouldn't make any sense. - It would be very. - Or just little touches. Like did you imagine? - Did you imagine them? - Scream, I think like the M was just like a little more of a dip, almost like a dagger to it. Just like those little touches that like, kind of maybe you do notice it, but subconsciously it's still do in something for you for the brain. Do you know what I think that dip in the, I think it was scream five. - Five, 80. - Oh, even better, right? Yeah. - Yeah, especially when there's meaning in the font, I mean, that is so incredibly satisfying to me. And what I do think that the design can stop you in your tracks and it's something that shouldn't be left, which is why I think one of the best things that I did was have this listener who is now a friend forced me to think about it early on. And this is why you wanna be doing that because what you could potentially be sacrificing later on and you have to be open to it is that a distributor may actually have an opinion about the poster. And of course, you want to serve up your distributor if you end up going, partnering with a distributor with all the assets that you have your fingerprints on to make it easy for them. And of course, knowing they may change it and there's a reason why because they know how to serve and market your film to an audience and how you can actually get it onto various platform services, et cetera. It's very intentional and there is a total art to it. I love that we talked about this. - There's a great documentary, Electric Bougaloo, the like the wild story of Canon films and there's a mention in that movie about how they would, well, it's the Canon style, like they would make the poster before they made the movie. - Mm-hmm. - It's like they would make the poster, and then they would sell it to, they would get people to buy in producers or investors or whatever, like, oh yeah, that's a great movie. And they're like, they'd hurry up and make the movie once they sold the idea with that money they had, which, you know, it's a bit more shlocky, but like, they're posters let you know exactly what you're gonna watch. - Yes, yes. - Like you're saying, Portland, no, like, what do you think, too? - Immediately we're on board. This actually kind of touches on this idea of communicating the type of movie you're going to watch. And what's interesting about building collections or thematic programming is what you're doing is similar to curating a festival or a Repetory series. So I'd love to hear how y'all decide on like, okay, this is a theme. Obviously, you know, it's Pride Month, makes sense to be looking at sort of the queer community and their films or things that touch upon that. But what are some of the discovery themes that have been really exciting for you guys when it comes to like choosing and finding and sourcing and also just putting together as like, this could be a viewing experience for somebody. - Matt, all I think of that one, I was gonna say, 'cause you kind of have an approach that you do with social media and how you're picking out films. - Yeah, there's kind of a two step for it. And I feel like there's like, what can it be does itself? And then I feel like Aaron and I, again, I'm marketing, Aaron's in programming. And I feel like we're kind of like, in my mind, we're like this rebellious duo. And we just recently added a third in Amwess, who was from Acquisitions. So it feels like this rebellious trio where we're kind of being able to do kind of our own thing and kind of carve our own path a little bit and like kind of get some ideas out there. Like Aaron's got these great like, sustained campaigns like modern black and white films and stuff. And so yes, there's like, I don't say more corporatey side 'cause that stuff is great too. Like we do the yearly campaigns like Noir Vembr, for example, right? - There's so much to dive into and it's so fun and it's so great. But then there's other aspects where like, Aaron, I just have this shared love of like rock docs. And so there's shared love of the kind of Western civilization trilogy, which is about the punk rock culture in the 70s, 80s and then 90s. And like those just kind of exploded as well within with on like on Can be social and then with on the platform itself. And so I feel like being able to represent what we love internally. And it's a lot of talking to other people that work again and see what they love. So we can also represent them and their flavors out in the world as well. Like that is what's super exciting is just to see what everyone else gets excited about for me. - There's an aspect to those collections to, especially like the more niche ones where, and I'm a letterbox addict myself. And I kind of credit that with getting, I don't necessarily like competitive watching like who can find the most niche thing or like who can post the first thing or have a hot take. Some of that bugs me a little bit, but there's like, I have a 16 year old daughter and her friends are like on letterbox down, they're getting into movies. Like this is fantastic. - Thank God. - And the water's great. But I do like kind of go and down like those niche, like really niche specific rabbit holes. Like I said, I watch Street Trash of the day that I'm finding like friends of mine or on letterbox, I was like, oh, they watched this for two. Then I'll message them. She's like, this is popular. - Can we talk about Street Trash? - No, but this is somebody. It's really crazy. It's a great poster. - Oh my gosh, that poster let you know exactly what you're in for. It is not a romcom. I like the Rock Docs example Matt, because that was one of the ones when I started the programming team that I was already watching a bunch of them on Canopy and Elter anyway, 'cause I'm a big music history fanatic. And I ended up doing like a, I thought it was gonna be a small collection called Rock Docs, 75 year, a backstage past the 75 years of rock and roll history. And so it could go back as far as I could. So it was kind of competitive. Like what's the earliest like Rock Doc I could find to add to that collection, but also like the breadth of that is crazy. I think it was like the, the doc version of Me Me The Bathroom, 'cause I like that book a lot. But it's all about like the New York kind of Indie of Rock in the early 2000s. But also like we just published a week or so ago, pretty ugly, the story of the lunatics, this great punk band that when Matt goes out on social media with some of these clips, of these, you know, these, if you get the right clip from the right doc, people are just like, oh my god, this is like, we wanna, I guess that's that shared aspect too, where like let's dig in, you know, kind of like we both, Matt, I both collect vinyl. It's like you dig into those crates of like, what's the most obscure thing or what's the most fun thing that you could find. And then as soon as you find it and you enjoy it, you really wanna share it, 'cause you're like, this is awesome. You wanna shout it out. And luckily in the jobs we're in, we've got a spot where we can shout it out now and be like, oh my god, this is amazing. Very elsey in this. - I feel like you guys have what you're doing has a lot of tangible overlap with just indie filmmakers in general, because you're curating or making something. And then Matt, you are taking what you think we'll connect with audiences and creating this discoverable or moment or moments for projects. When you're taking something that may not have a known audience or any audience because you have discovered it, what are you looking for when you wanna get a great real? - It's so funny. When anything that like makes me laugh, like it's so fun, we just gotta can't be in turn for the first time, which is great. And it's, I've been trying-- - And then it turns. - Yes, and I've been trying hiring in turns. - Pain in turn as well. - Pain in turn. - Yes. - 40 hours a week, yep, it's a legit job for the summer. It's great. But I'm trying to describe that feeling as well. It's like whatever's gonna connect with you or things that you find interesting, it's so odd. 'Cause like I don't love social media. I don't like anyone really does at this point, but what I really love is stories and editing. And so I think that is what I try to bring to the social space as well. Like I don't love trends necessarily or anything. I can't wait for my boss to turn it this into this. - I think they know that as well. The whole thing to me is about stories and what is, even it's good in and out points for when you're editing a reel. I think it's anything that you connect with can connect with other people, which is why internally we also go to other people and other departments and people have different backgrounds. Yeah, to gut check, exactly. So it's not just like, again, like Aaron said, like just me as like a straight white Clevelander guy, like that's boring, right? So, but I try to put my own personality into it, but yeah, hopefully it connects with other people. And if it doesn't, at least it will be like, maybe something interesting for them to watch. - The further you're way to say that man's instead of saying that you're boring, which I know you, you're not bored, is that like the tastes are not that unique, I guess. And it depends on what mood you're in as well. You know, like I gotta just say something besides street trash. Before that, I watched Beverly Hills trial with three of my daughter, 'cause you know, we both think that movie is hilarious. - Yes. - Live action cartoon, more or less. - Hell yeah. - So like if you like something you respond to something and chances are a large number of other people are gonna respond to that as well. They may not be like a global like Marvel type audience, you know, kind of thing, but there's gonna be people out there. And then also there's like a thrill when like you share something that you're passionate about. Like Matt mentioned, declining Western civilization, fantastic documentary, he and our both big punk fans. And he posted it just 'cause he's a fan. And then there was like, oh, there's this whole like, you know, what a surprise. There's a whole punk audience out there and a doc audience out there that overlaps and it was like, that's not gonna be, I know what I'm watching tonight. So you're like, yeah. - Yeah, it's sweet. - And I mean, that like blew up. I had 28 million views. And we were like on Instagram alone and we're like, okay, well like that's obviously connecting with people. Like what else in that sphere can as well? Try not Tony Hawk documentary also does pretty well. - Yes, yes. - And this whole audience that just know him from video games, not even like as an actual-- - That he's a person. - Yeah. - Yeah. - And a cameo from the new guy. - Yes, yes. - Classic. - Yeah. - What's interesting to us seeing there are these examples. For example, there was a film that is actually, I saw in the canopy video store at Sundance called Dinner in America. And it came out at Sundance 2020. And then very soon after we all went into our homes and isolated and didn't go to theaters. And it was sort of, I don't know what happened to it, but it was a quietly released film. And then it started to, they cut it up and put parts of it on TikTok. And then it had this huge resurgence it's currently on canopy right now. But they had a huge theatrical selling out, like literally blockbusters, people around the block, trying to get into this. And it's just so exciting when a film can find an audience in an unexpected way. - And that's such a unique kind of like combination of events, where we were all like, isolated in our houses. We could not wait to get back out and share cinema together in an environment. And then you have this discovery that's made during COVID. You're like, wait, I can get out. I can watch this kick ass movie with other people. - Yes. - You know, sign me up. - Now I'd love to hear like about younger audiences in particular because you are in addition to engaging with libraries, which anyone can check out a book and now movie and so many things. I didn't know about an ancestry through the library. (laughing) Libraries are amazing, but you are tapped into universities. It sounds like young people are watching movies again. We're discovering the joy of movies and going to theaters. And I saw the most wonderful sort of like, I was just a fly on the wall going to see obsession, Matt and I last Friday and this AMC employee was so patiently talking to these middle schoolers that they cannot see the movie unless their guardian is there. And I know they bought the tickets, but they need a guardian there. And I was like, yes, kids are trying to speak into our rated movies. It's amazing. This is great for us. Almost was like, I'll be their guardian, but I was like, I can't assume responsibility of 18, eight middle schoolers. Like that would be a thing. But let's talk about the younger audiences and what your interaction is with these, the university space. - It's interesting because I could speak to everyone quick as my oldest Sunday's finishing up his first year at OSU and he had to watch some films on Canopy for a class. In my head, I'm gonna say, like we have, so there's different offerings on the EDU side versus the public library side. So there's this huge collection on the EDU side of the criterion collection. And we have some on the public library side, but it's curriculum stuff. Like it's amazing on the EDU side. So I was like, oh, it's film studies classes, it's set sort of thing, which is great. Hey, they can have access to all this stuff. We have the entire Frederick Weisman collection, RIP. That's great for a documentary class. But then my son was taking like a mythology class. And so the teacher recommended, or didn't recommend, he assigned, three or four movies on canopy that were examples of this like mythology that they were studying. We can week out or whatever. I was like, well, that's it. How does Portrait of Lady on Fire connect to any told me that I forgot? But it's, yeah, it could be a link that a professor just shares you like, hey, you got to watch this one. Or it's much more individually curated at the university level. But then otherwise, students can just go and browse. And if they have the free time, watch what their university is offering through their canopy platform. And we're trying to like, we've went to Emerson, went to Boston, went to Emerson, for example, for an event last year. And then we just went to the, we part with Neon and I love Boosters for the Booster Rily screening at K-Way Film Center in Columbus. And it's really been great to go down there and like interact with like the students as well. And like to push this kind of narrative also that like it doesn't have to be just for course work. Like I wish I knew about Canapy in college, where I could watch all this stuff. Like it just even hang out movies. Like I'd love to be able to put something on like back when I was in college, we would go to the library and check out movies, which you could still do. But it'd be so much easier, especially living where Aaron and I live in a, we get to seasons. And the winter is really harsh. So sometimes you don't wanna leave your dorm room. So I feel like being able to have access to Canapy as a college student I think would be, would be so available to me as if I was a student again. So we're trying to get the cover, get that work, like kind of get that word out there as well. - There's another element to that too that isn't necessarily specifically focused on the EDU side, but like the theatrical experience. And how like you said, kids are going out there. Also I think Gigi, maybe you had a missed opportunity there seeing a movie with a bunch of random. - It would have actually been magical. And take me back to like the days that I would movie hop and see Saw and Mean Girls and then go back and see Saw again. Yeah, I mean next time I will, I'll be their guardian. Next time I'll be their guardian. Or at least teach them the art of theater hopping. Although I don't know, it's hard to see. - It's so hard to decide to see. - See the front rope, yeah. - No one must sit down there anyway. - Exactly. - But never even thought about that. That is crazy. There was like a lost art to like being able to like sneak into a movie. Should pay for your movies when having said, when you go to a theater, but still there is the lost art of like being 13 and sneaking in. (laughing) - Getting up the things that your local multiplex, but yeah, there's something that we're really trying to do within the Canapy space to like celebrate in the theatrical experience and the festival experience would de-met you, Gigi, unless we were a Sundance all at the same time, which is fantastic. But like that's sort of where like obviously films are born with like the filmmakers, the artists, like yourself that are making films and putting them out there. But I mean people watch stuff on streamers all the time. They're like, oh, what was that thing I watched last night? 'Cause there isn't, you're not investing the time and the care to like, I'm gonna pick this movie, I'm gonna drive to the theater, I'm gonna buy a ticket, and maybe I'm gonna meet friends there. Maybe I'm gonna meet my family there. You're gonna watch something. Maybe talk to a stranger afterwards about the experience and you're like, I would not have thought about that 'cause that person doesn't think like I do. And now it opens up the movie before you or something. Like that's how movies can like really effectively enter the public kind of the films like Geist. And then it makes my job easier in the long run 'cause when I program, like, oh, everybody members sorry to bother you on Canapy right now. Because it made us splash and people went and they cared and they talked about it and they supported it in the theatrical running and the film festival run. It's pretty essential that that still has to be a part of it that has to be part of the film's life, which is why I love that Canapy's part of a library connection because it's the library for the rest of the life of the film. But it's kind of born in that public discovery and participation and going and watching it. And putting your phone down and sitting in the dark with strangers and watching something. - Yes. Is there an indie film that you sort of watched through that festival theatrical, but still with that indie spirit that you really were excited to help reach new audiences and you think they did a good job building that sort of zeitgeisty film feel that you're describing? - Hundreds of beavers. - Yes. - Just, I mean, you could read a whole book, I don't know if there's a book written yet, hopefully they do, but like, there's a whole book on like, how they like put it together on their own, let alone like how they marketed it, how they toured with it. It was kind of like what Boots Rally was doing with Isle of Boosters where like, it was almost like musicians out on tour. - Yes. - Presenting their movie instead of their band at the end of the night, hundreds of beavers, I mean, Boots Rally's also entertaining, but the hundreds of beavers folks, when you saw them screening here locally at the Cleveland Cinema Tech was just like, it was a comedy show afterwards. - Yes. - You know, like it was amazing. - And they have a marketing background. This is like tying back into your work, Matt. Like, these are folks who come from a marketing background and they understand how to build an audience. It's so critical. And it's, then the most bizarre part about the point where folks usually are at when they're putting, when their film is on Canopy, is usually this is like when you have almost finished everything for your movie, like you've done your PR, you've done your limited theatrical, you've done your festivals. It could be a combination or all of those are none of those. And it can still be there. And often it's like years after you picture locked. It's wild, but this is how the, the film will be experienced for the rest of your life. It's this fascinating window. How do you guys engage with filmmakers usually? Or is it kind of like outside of the sort of curated, if you will, events, in-person events where you're engaging with community? But like, is there a connection with filmmakers often? - We want to do more of it, to be honest. We just did this weekend, an in-person screening of Shelby Oaks with Chris Stuckman 'cause he's a local Ohio guy. And like, that was great. And I feel like there is this opportunity to interact with filmmakers more. I mean, we like message people 'cause we have a big following of people that are in the industry, which is great. Like, we love interacting with savrogers and Jim Cummings or like two of you will not just come to my mind, but they're like, "Marked you plus." We met at Sundance and like, we're like, "Interacting with him on social, just like through the Canopy account has been great too." But like, there is the aspect of like acquisitions then. And like, letting people know that like, we are like, are open for business. We're gonna help people like, get things on the EDU side. So like, yeah, I don't know. There's just more opportunities to do that. Sorry, here I see. I feel like you're about to jump on in with some information. - No, I just agree. I think it was where there's like, there's several things that we're working on, but I don't wanna jinx them 'cause I don't know what will pan out and what won't. But it feels like maybe one of those like secret things. Like, we'll see Canopy pop up on like, these seven things you didn't know were free or like essential things that you have or people will just come in. I'll hear like on a podcast, whereas like I've been listening to, you're like, how did this get made for ever, or whatever, Pierce Cinema podcast. And I was just like mentioned like, oh yeah, I saw that one in Canopy. I was like, oh my God, they know we exist. And it's a thing and it feels really great. But yeah, it almost feels like, wanna go from like a hidden secret sort of thing to like, no, that's all like, that celebrates some movies together. Let's, yeah, let's work together and let's get the word out. - It's one of the few things that immediately I'm like, wow, I am an American citizen who is benefiting from this thing. And we see it and it's like pure entertainment, education, enjoyment and something that we can all have access to. And that feels very much part of the ecosystem that we're working toward which is to protect movies and celebrate movies and get excited about movies. What is coming up for you guys? Like what's happening in the, this is coming out in June, 2026. But what are some of the exciting titles and themes coming to Canopy that you're excited to celebrate? - Well, one exciting title would be, I really love my husband, come to Canopy. - Yeah. - I sure know when you're listening to this is already there. This is a little bit farther off but it's something I'm already working on right now is we do a, I'm a big horror movie fan. I'm gonna end up being that guy who just talked about Street Trash a bunch on the show. - Crank it all on. - It's really called the Street Trash, a Canopy podcast. - The Aromised Group name actually, it's a good big name for us. - Just a two of you in a group chat. - Street Trash. I wanna join. But I love horror movies, worldwide, the history of them, everything else. I came to the horror game late as an adult. I didn't really watch too much through college, but every October, Canopy does something, we've branded as frightfest. So every year we do frightfest, we really show off the breadth and depth of the horror collection. And in the last couple days before Halloween, including Halloween night, we do a frightfest takeover of the homepage where it's just like, there's no week in watch all this but look at all this great stuff. I already doing some back end work getting that together this year 'cause I don't wanna just repeat what we did last year. It was like a 13 shelf, get it, takeover, top 30 shelves where all horror related. But I love this great old guy called the Psychotronic Film Guide. I have a physical copy and I've been going through it and tagging all the movies I can find on Canopy. So I can't wait to get that public and show off like, all right, you all want a wild ride? Pick one of these kind of collections. So. - I mean, right off the wave of back rooms, I'm sure people are like, let's get wild. - Let's get weird. - Yeah, horror is just having a really fantastic moment right now too. - And I love that. - And I love that. - A little separate, bigger conversation but. - And we have like Aaron said too, we don't wanna get like, like that's like Tiprah Hat because we don't know what's gonna go through or not. But like Aaron, I just pitched up like, a bunch of ideas to a lot of people and we're gonna see if they go through and we're like really excited to hopefully take Canopy to like the next level in my mind, at least at our, you know, of what we can do. And then also the movie The Napa Boys is coming July 20th. I love The Napa Boys. I think it's so good I have a couple buddies in it and it's hilarious So that's what I'm excited to and it comes out the day before my birthday So I'm gonna make my wife watch it with me It's my birthday, so we're gonna watch this Yeah, I bought it and she just refuses but we will when it's on canopy It's just like your job, man, not mine. Yeah, exactly. I've heard a lot about The Napa Boys I'm so excited to watch it. I do think that this is something we need to confirm just confirm with our Audience that it is okay to force your significant other to watch something on your birthday That's what you get because it's your birthday. I made my husband watch the secret garden from the 90s Is such a good movie Also kind of horrific. It's there's like horror elements in there. So you get there something there Well, I personally would love to have you guys to continue to come on to the no-foam school podcast to Updates and have it be a continuing conversation because the work you're doing is so special and so important and so cool And it feels very much in the ethos of what we're doing So this is the first of many for our listeners as we close out. I have two questions for you One is how and where should people be following the work of canopy and you guys to Get the most out of it PSA free and no ads Exactly. Yeah, I mean you get your library car for your student have your university ID and you can follow us across all Socials besides X like a lot of people and then just download the canopy app and get watching is the ultimate blog I feel like Aaron do you have anything to add? Just to kind of balance street trash I would say go watch jazz on a summer day. That's a great document One of the early form stocks, but also closing thought would just be like support your local art house and repertoire theaters Folks, I'm sure your audience doesn't need that reminder, but you know spread the good word Yeah, I wonder if I could just be on canopy and What my consumption would look like it'd be really hard to get off of paramount plus because I watch survivor But it's an off time the season is not on there you go. I do experiment. I know I know this would be like it could be great The last question is what advice do you have for an emerging filmmaker who may want to be in the world of curation and marketing and just passionate filmmaking? So you do production so am I advice to be very quick and easy is do your best to watch one movie a day Yeah, watch everything watch one movie a day I think just ultimately do it and also get a great group of people around you think that's the most important part as well That's like having people around you to be able to support you and do the things that you don't or can't do is the best part Awesome. Well, thank you guys and more to come. Oh, thank you so much. Our pleasure. Yeah, pretty good