An established academic and inventor, went on a journey to discover if telepathy and psychic powers were just a version of physics that we haven't yet figured out. He even went to the Pentagon to explain how telepathy might be used in psychological warfare. And then on New Year's Eve, 1952, inside a copper-lined laboratory on the coast of Maine, a Hindu scholar went into a trance. And when he opened his mouth, the voice that came out didn't claim to be a dead relative, or a spirit, or even god. It claimed to be nine beings, nine intelligences outside of time, supposedly guiding the evolution of humanity. This is the work of Dr. Puharic. And from there, the story somehow involves secret military experiments, psychedelic mushrooms, radio you can put inside someone's mouth, Yuri Geller, psychic children, the gods of ancient Egypt, the CIA, and eventually a bizarre connection that gets us all the way to the assassination of JFK. And there's no other person I could do this with than my good pal, Joey Avery, to help me figure out one simple question. What the heck is actually going on here? Were some of these people actually contacting some kind of non-human intelligence, were they truly talking to some entities called the Nine, were they slowly building a mythology together without realizing it? Or did Cold War science, a cultism psychedelics, UFOs, intelligence agencies, and science fiction all get mixed together until nobody could tell where one ended and where the other began? Because whether or not the Council of Nine is a real thing, the ideas that came out of those rooms that Dr. Puharic was conducting, those ideas were real, and they may have even helped create the entire genre that we now call ancient aliens. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Joey Avery, so sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, dude? Welcome back to camp, my name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent where every single week we explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from all time forever, and always that is what I do here. Every single week, I find a different rabbit hole, a worm hole, different types of holes, and I jump in them, and I try to figure out what's going on in this world, and I explain it to you. Yeah, that's the point of the show. I'm like, I consider this campsite, the sports center of conspiracy theories. I don't believe all of them, but I think they are all fast-standing, and just maybe there's a threat of truth in each one, and I want to figure out what it is. Now, before we begin, I want to say thank you to you for being a part of this. Every time you click comment, like anything like that on our show, you tell the algorithm over, "Lord, so we're actually good guys, we're doing a good job." You keep the lights on, and the tent, and you keep the fire burning here at the campsite. Now, I also want to thank my good pal, Creestos. Creestos, hooray. What's up, everybody? I'm Creestos, because we're also joined by a good pal, Joey Avery. How are you? I'm great. I had no idea you were such a big hole guy. Yeah, yeah. Black holes, white holes. Sure. I'm just interested. Yeah, whatever color holds. No, boy, do we have a hole to jump into today? Have you heard of the Council of Nine? No. Oh, this is JJ McCarthy thing. Wait, who is that? Football Joe. Only football fans will get that, the three guys out there. Yeah. Now, this is a fascinating episode that we put out pretty recently. The feedback in the comments was great. A few people pointed out a couple things that I just want to address. A lot of people were like, "Dude, literally, y-files and AJ just dropped this episode two days ago." That brought my heart, because we recorded it like two weeks before we put it out. So for everyone that's saying we stole, we didn't, but it was convenient that it happened two days before. So, yeah. I can backmark up on this every time I do an episode, I have no idea if it's coming out in like one hour or like next quarter. There were like seasons will have changed and then an episode will drop. Yeah. Sometimes there's a little bit of overlap, especially with AJ, because it shows so good. I have no idea who that is. Y-files is just amazing. Okay. So fun. But we cover a lot of the same sort of stories. Yeah. So, as a result, there is occasional overlap. And also someone else, Christina Boothknot said, "Mark, if you're reading this, please give the people at camp your perspective on Jesus." I'll put it not in your booth. Nope. We can't say that when we're talking about Jesus, dude. What should we click? There's no picture. Guys. No. We're not going to make it. We're not going to objectify Chris. Now we're having fun here. It's loose camp. I know. It's Christian. It's Christian. Okay. What did she say? Did she ask what her thoughts were about Jesus, your thoughts about Jesus? I like 'em. Yeah. I was going to say, I think Mark's pretty proud you're wearing some of his merch right now. Yeah. I mean, not his best moment. But it is kind of the signifier, you know, I mean, of our Lord and Savior. Yeah. And a great guy. There's Chris Dana. And someone else said, "Wonotomendi8913, get the F out of here." So in the end, the super civilized entity, all they want is peace and middle east, and that's the one thing they're not going to get. If you listen to the story from the outside, they're evil. The only thing they want for us is to meditate about things, and they think we're getting rid of evil. They're doing a horrible job. So people are not happy about the Council of Nine. Okay. Yeah. Now, I'm sure curious what they are. I certainly am. It's like they're maybe causing some issues in the middle east. Yes, we're going to find out. Yeah. So this is basically a story of a very legitimate doctor inventor who became obsessed with a question. What if consciousness is non-local? What if consciousness isn't just something that your brain creates? What if it's something outside of your brain that your brain can tap into, like a radio? If that is true, like can you tune the radio to catch different interferences? Can you do it to let me see? This is something I believe Michael Paulins been talking about recently. Many people have. Yes. Many people have. And we don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. Within us or is it retuning into something and when you take like shrooms and you're vibing? Do drugs enhance the signal? Maybe. Is that like when you put tinful at the edge of your antennas? Definitely taking a few things and that got a little bit. Yeah. Who knows? Is the military using it? I don't know. It doesn't feel like it. But why not? I don't know. I think shrooms a few times and I feel like shooting rockets is never really something I'm into. I don't really even like technology. But what if you're shooting shrooms into someone else's head as what I'm saying? What if you're able to shoot a sound wave into their brain and then make them think stuff? If the military was going around trying to increase people's vibes and connection to consciousness, I think I would be even, I'd support our troops even more. Flower power. Yeah. Yeah. And then more importantly, what is broadcast in the signal? If we're all tapping into this thing, where is it coming from? So on New Year's Eve, 1952, inside like a copper Faraday cage, there's a Hindu scholar that goes into a trance and then says that there are beings that are controlling this whole consciousness and not just one being nine. And 20 years later, people later claim that these nine entities in a bunch of different sort of esoteric and occult circles will claim that they are extraterrestrial intelligence that helped create humanity and are eventually coming back. And this story goes in it connects with legit the Pentagon, MK Ultra, remote viewing, Stanford, the guy that made Star Trek, Atlantis, reincarnation, and even Lee Harvey Oswald. This would be a doozy. Yeah. This would be, this would be the mother of them all. We're going to be hitting all of it. Yeah. Now, if any of this sounds familiar, it is because we did an episode on it recently. So if you want like all of the straight up details on that one, I implore you to go check out that episode. I believe it is called something, Council of Nine Aliens, something awesome that Cretace has picked. But if you want the fun version, we're, I break it down to my pal Joey. Well, welcome to the show. We're going to get a little loose with it. Yeah. Yeah. You could have it straight up or you could have it gated up. Yeah. Exactly. This is like the, this is the Scooby-Doo version. Yeah. I'm shaggy. You're Fred. Okay. And we're in our mystery machine trying to figure it out. Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We do. We haven't met girls yet. Yes. Well, if you know Scooby-Doo, Velma is always the one that actually cracks the case. Yeah. And so without our Velma, we're just like, we're flawed. There's ghosts. Yeah. Get those sweater cannons in here, Velma. Exactly. Velma is low-keyed. She was my favorite. Yeah. Oh. See, I was actually an interesting thing. I think that says a lot about you. I need to see like the Poodle-Cook compass of like Daphne versus Velma. Yeah. Because I think if you like Daphne, you're probably more of just like, kind of just straight up and down, kind of jock. Yeah. And then I think if you like Velma, I think you're kind of like, I think Velma's a more popular costume now though, because you know, she's like under cover hot, whereas like if you're a girl and you're dressing as Daphne, everyone's like, yeah, we get it. Yeah. Yeah. Happy Halloween. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But either one, but you know, whichever you are, God bless you. Yeah. Oh, wow. This is like updated. Oh, did they cover? I guess I was just remembering Daphne is sludder. Velaphne. Is this the Velaphne? Velaphne. Is this like a rule 42, Daphne, Velma, like relationship thing? They also have a movie together, Daphne and Velma. The mystery is that they're scissoring. I was gonna say they for sure hooked up a bit. Yeah. I mean, in the fanfits. Which is, yeah, which is great. Good for the God bless. This is Zoink, dude. Yeah. So this whole story starts really 1918. A couple of lesbians with the dogs solving mysteries, dude. What a good life. That's us. What a good life. Okay. Real quick. Most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed. And when you subscribe, you help the channel grow and you stay in the loop with every new drop, religion camp, history camp and camp gag on it. Now let's get back to it. So you have this guy, Henry Puharic, who's born in Chicago 1918, Croatian immigrant parents. He goes to Northwestern and gets a medical degree in 1947. He eventually holds 50 plus patents, mostly involving medical electronics and hearing technology. So he's like a proper academic. And then he starts going by the name Andrija Puharic, we'll call him poor for all intense purposes. He's a doctor, he's inventor, and he's not like some crazy UFO guy. But he does have a weird obsession where he's like, I don't think consciousness is local. I think consciousness exists outside of us. And I'll explain more in detail really what that is. But like, he's based like, dude, telepathy is probably real. But he doesn't think television is supernatural.
He thinks it's just, this is science we don't understand yet. And he thinks that there's a way to figure it out. So there's two ways you can look at non-local consciousness. Or I guess, the consciousness broadly speaking, there's a ton of subcategories. Either the brain creates consciousness, that's like your brain's a record player. Yep, spin in a tin. And the machine is what generates the music. So if you destroy the record player, no more music. But the brain could also be a radio. - And antenna. And antenna that then is tapping into whatever the consciousness is that exists around us that unite the whole universe. So one person dies, the brain gets destroyed. The signal's still there. - Right. - And so that means like, are we just receivers? So if this is something that can be, so we'd be highly personal receivers though, because whatever we're tapping into is what makes us us. - Sure, right. - Because everyone is tapping into something different. - Yeah, vaguely. But there's something out there, some intelligence, perhaps. - This is like a whole deep well of like philosophy of the mind, which is like a new cutting edge version of philosophy. It really came out in like the 90s, and like the current philosophers of the day, this is like, from all my philosophy friends, this is like the underlying question that everyone's trying to answer. Like back in the day, who are like, okay, what is truth? Like what does it mean to live a good life? Now it's just like what is consciousness and no one really knows. - Right. - I like to think it's non-local. I like to think it's outside of us. - It's way more of a form of moments when you feel things that feel like that couldn't be just inside of me. - Yeah, yeah. - But if it is, dude, but if it is, then you're more powerful than you think. - Exactly, it's outside of me and inside of me. - Yeah. - And outside of me again. - Exactly. - Back inside of me. - The rope. - Don't want that. - Yeah, non-stop. - A lot. - Exactly. So he's like, how do I test this? How do I figure out if it's possible to let the remote viewing? You're familiar with remote viewing? - Uh, not really, explain it. This is the idea of like, I put a drawing in an envelope, I hold the envelope, I close it, and then you being able to use your telepathic powers are able to determine what's inside the envelope. It's sort of the underlying doctrine that inspires like stranger things and things like that. - Yeah, the problem is every time someone appears to be good at it, we realize they're just like a magician. Who's lying? - That's what you think. - That is what I think. - But then you look at like Montauk project, you look at even like Stanford research institute, they're doing remote viewing, even within a military capacity, which we're gonna get into in a little bit. Where they're having maybe not 100% accuracy, but above average chance. - Right. - So like flip a coin, I'm in a different room than you are, and you can guess to like, 85%. - But they have these freaks. - Yeah. - They have them, they're just in Palo Alto. (laughing) - Exactly. - That's so close to where I grew up, dude. You might be one. - They're just, they might be watching me. - You might have on tap. - Watching me having a crank from Stanford, that's insane. - Oh my god. - Oh my god, what is he doing? - Not again. - What the suck down. - Wow, that is, so they actually have people, subjects, at Stanford right now that can do this. - This is the claim. - The claim. - Now it's against, it's difficult to verify. - Well, there's many people we're about to talk about. 1948 Poharak establishes the Round Table Foundation at Glencove Main, and he opens an enormous seaside of state called Warrington. You can still go visit these places. And it's not just like a bunch of like, random crystal chicks that are like, trying to make this happen. He starts getting, there maybe it was a nice way to spend a weekend. Get a couple crazy gals out there, a nice full brim hat, a couple cocktails. - Clothes are so unnatural, right? - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, free the net, what are we even doing? - Let me shave that pit a little bit, for sure. - And basically, people start donating and like, funding this. And it's not just like random crazies. So you ever heard of FDR? - The president. - Well, his vice president is a guy named Henry Wallace. He's a big financier. And then you have Alice Boeverie. She's one of the erasers to the Astor family estate. And then you have Arthur Young, who's also financially supporting this whole endeavor, 'cause he's so curious about it. He's the engineer behind the development of the Bell helicopter. So these are the people involved in this. You have a legit doctor scientist that went to Northwestern that has a ton of credentials and patents. And then you have all these other very wealthy, successful, kind of aristocrats of the United States, putting their money behind it, trying to figure out whether the mind can communicate without a normal sensory input. Pretty crazy. - It's awesome. I wish our modern day rich people, like I wish our current billionaires were more focused on stuff like this. This should be more fun. - Imagine you were almost, 'cause you had a dream catcher's work. - Yeah, exactly. He's just like buying Twitter and like, Bezos is sending women to space. And everyone's doing peptides. It's like, why don't you figure out? - Sending women to space is close. - You think so? - You're like, dude, can chicks deal with space? - Can't you? (laughing) - What happens to boobs and zero gravity? - It's like not far off. - You'll find out. - Not far off. - Yeah. - So, he was engaged in some remote viewing. (laughing) - It is crazy, Katy Perry went to space before we did. - It is, it is, but she is a firework. - Yeah. - And, I mean, now she's with the-- - She's with Trudeau. - With Trudeau. - Also. - First brown guy, she's dated. (laughing) - I like that. - Thank you. - And that works on a few levels, 'cause, you know, he obviously did brown face, but also he's the son of Fidel Castro. - Also that, yeah, forgot about that. - That's a double up right there. - Yeah. - So, how do we test this, Joey? Great question. Basically, you need to create a Faraday cage. So, he taps on this guy named John Hayes Hammond Jr., who's another great inventor, and the two of them are like, okay, maybe this is working based off like electromagnetic. So, let's put one of these so-called psychics into a Faraday cage, block out all the other electromagnetic stuff, basically put them like a yonder bag, and see if they can somehow make it work. And they put a psychic inside. They start testing them and they're like, okay, maybe if we block out all the noise, we're gonna start hearing the signal. They got this first girl, Eileen Garrett. And she's an Irish ESP expert. - An Irish psychic is hilarious. - I always assume it's like a Jamaican lady. - No, but no. It's just, oh, hey, she told you to. (laughing) - I see a fatty in your picture. (laughing) - You're gonna die of lack of procedures. (laughing) - So, that's what they're thinking. And, shockingly, it kind of works. They suggest, at least from Poohark's own documentation, that she has, once again, higher than average, recall inside the Faraday cage, doing this remote viewing tactics, specifically like coin flips and like drawing things into different envelopes and guessing. Did you just hold an egon? (laughing) Dude, why would you call that out? I did such a good job. - Was this something I'm doing? - No, it's great. That's why I held it in. - Involuntary. - And it's, well, now I have to yell. - No, no, you don't. You have to hold one in. - Okay. - Does that work? It's continuously being held in? - Yeah. - Okay. Well, turns out, they're like, well, maybe it's not that, the electromagnetic is like, maybe it's not propelling, but maybe there's other noise interference coming for these psychic signals. So, we put the Faraday cage into block it. That's what they're thinking. So, then where does the nine come in? What is this council of nine? Like, they're so far, they're doing like, what seems like a pretty grounded experiment? Well, Puhar kind of discovers the nine kind of on accident, but he's not the first one to talk about it. So, theosophy, have you heard of this? Helene Blavatsky, she's like a great sort of mystic from Russia from early 1900s. And she starts developing this kind of idea that there's hidden masters around the world, like hidden wise people that have untold knowledge, secret knowledge that are slowly guiding things. And so, there's that kind of happening in the background that people are vaguely aware of. And then there's a guy named Talbot Mundi that publishes a novel about nine men in India, secretly guarding, secretly guarding dangerous ancient knowledge and then also influencing human civilization. Why they're in India? I can't say. But that's where they're at. It always ends up there. Everyone's always thinking it's mystical, you know, and maybe it is. I don't know, I've been. All the top CEOs in India. Yeah, that's maybe, yeah. To send in some of the nine. America's kind of doing that. They're like, dude, we need, we need to see your teacher. Secret ability and teacher to get over here. Yeah. And it's also sort of connected to this guy named Nicholas Rorik. Nicholas Rorik is a Russian mystic and he's also tapped in with theosophy and he has a very prominent American disciple who writes him letters all the time saying, "Dear Guru, give me guidance." That guy's name, Henry Wallace. FDR's VP. So FDR's VP during like his whole political career is like not only funding these telepathy experiments, but also going and talking to these wise Indian gurus, or Russian gurus being like, "Did people just get mad at Tulsi Gabbard for this?" Wait, what do you mean? She, they found out she's like been consulting like a cult leader on some of her, on some of her like foreign policy decisions and things like that. She's like Loki and a cult. And no longer has a job. Well, and what does she have though? A community of people that'll wanna fuck your spouse. Yeah. That have never let her down. You should, I barely know this store. I don't know 100%, but I do believe that that has been happening. American. Oh. I just think like maybe, yeah, I don't know if anyone who has a guru should be allowed office. (laughing) I think it's like political office should be a non-guru zone for this. A Hawaii based religious group founded by conservative spiritual leader, Chris Butler. It's called the Science of Identity Foundation. And uh-- By the way, by the way, but let's pause here. Chris Butler, also known as Siddha Swaro Panananda. And we think Chris Butler looks like a Siddha Swaro Pananda. Or do you think that sometimes white boys get to fetishizing India when the second they start feeling a little Nineish? It's a nickname, dude. (laughing) Siddha Swaro Pananda. It's true, man. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Siddha Swaro Spada Nanda. Yeah. My name's Chris, you can call me Siddha Swaro Spada Nanda. We get a picture of the Siddha Swaro Pananda Nanda. He's a white guy. There he is, white boy with a-- Yeah.
And now he's shaving the hair. - He's North Indian. - Yeah, it's probably from Jabbi. - Yeah, North of India. - England. (laughing) - Oh, I love it. That's gonna be my second act. If comedy doesn't work out, just so you guys know, I'm gonna be a fucking citizen of Swara Patronon. - Have you seen the documentary "Kamade?" - No. - It's an Indian dude who's like, "How hard is it to credit cult?" And he basically creates a whole philosophy, documents, it gets all these leaders, or gets all these followers, and then kind of forms a comment. - Yeah. - And the whole time he's like doing cutaways, being like, "It's working." - It's so, I think it's so easy because people are missing something, and if you tell them you have it, they will be excited no matter what, because no one wants to accept that there's potential randomness. - Yeah. - And the top end of the cult pitch is pretty strong. - Well, there's a lot of good things in there. Like if you've been living, if you've been dirty, you've been a dirty guy, you've been fucking drinking, doing math, dude. Who knows? And then all of a sudden, someone's like, what if, you know, a few things I could teach you, eat healthy, try and be a good person. - Unity. - Purpose. - Meet a partner, treat them well, and like, you do these things. - Sounds great. - And you're like, "Poly shit, I've found the way." - What's the catch? - I'm fucking your wife. - Ah! - You got to do it. - You got to let sit us for a part. - Prunan is up, and I push, you know. - It is. - I knew nothing's free. - I know. - Yeah. - It is a tricky thing because you're like, "Oh, I can't get it." - Yeah. - So it's free zone maybe, maybe the office. But we'll see, but how did Henry Wallace deal with it? - Well, he has his own sort of history of this. It seems like it wasn't really that public for a really long time. It only came out a little bit later. - Yeah. - But he's not the only person that's interested in what Puharic has got going on here. 'Cause eventually the military gets involved. So again, this comes from Puharic's own testimony. So it's difficult to fully fact check every single independent detail here. But he claimed involvement in early Navy psychic research effort called Project Penguin, like that. - The actual name. - Yeah, that's good. - You could maybe call it Club Penguin, if you want. - Sure. - And that's its own thing. Now, there's an entire catalog of ESP research in the military. So you got like MK Ultra, Stargate, Bluebeam, all these different like grill flame. Like all these different things where they're trying, they kind of the consensus from like modern academic scholars. They're like, they're in the Cold War. People are doing crazy stuff. They thought the Soviets were cooking up a spy program of psychics. So we were like, we have to. - We got to do it. So it became a psychic arms race. - Yeah. - And they're like, they put in what is objectively a lot of money, but percentage wise of our defense budget, not that much, maybe a couple of five mill, maybe a little 10 mill. And we hear that and we're like, that's crazy. But then in terms of the total budget, they're like, that's a rounding error. It's not a big deal. So you throw a couple of mill at this thing. It's a low cost, high impact kind of study. And then you see if you get anything from it. Now according to all the official sources, they're like, eh, it didn't really work. - Right. - But that's not what some believe. - Is there anything we wouldn't do if we thought our enemies were doing it? - Nope. - Yeah, I don't think there's any. And that brings up a whole nother round of conspiracies, which is like, well, what if there are people who just want to do this, who just say, you know, China's gonna fucking do this. - Well, we have to do it all the time. That's how we exist. - We hear a journalist falls out of a window in Russia and we're like, yeah, you know, that's Russia. Of course, that's gonna happen. - Yeah. - And then a journalist goes missing an American. They're like, what happened? - Yeah. - It's like, what? It's the same world. The government's the same. We knew that we should, but the thing is that, but I don't like this argument because it allows people to be the same. And there is some bullshit that we tell ourselves that we shouldn't be the American exceptionalism, but like I think it's actually good to hold those things as ideals even when they're not true. - Yeah. - That's why I don't love it when people are like, oh, it's exactly the same. We do it too. Like, well, let's not. - Yes. - That is the correct answer. - Let us define ourselves as different. - But I'm saying we shouldn't pull the wall over us. Anytime something happens to like an American journalist and we're like, maybe he just fell asleep. - Yeah. - It's like, no, we do dasterly things as well. - Well, in fact, have you heard about the lawyer who just got killed in Ecuador who was investigating the boat that the Trump administration blew up? - I did vaguely hear about this. - Yeah. - And how a lot of the people from this boat came back with the same story of specific torture that might be at the hands of US or US mercenaries and then that Ecuadorian prosecutor is no more. - But we wouldn't do that. - But if Russia did it, they obviously did it. - Yeah. - And China did it. - They obviously did it. - But we definitely did. - Yeah, so my thing on this is I think we should not blow up random fishing boats and then kill prosecutors in other countries who are investigating. - What if your guru tells you to do it? If my guru though, if Siddhu Swara Parunanda told me to do it, then I would do it. - Maybe you hear him? - And let him fuck my wife. (laughing) - Look, I'll blow up this fishing boat, but yeah, you gotta do me to solid and bang my wife. - So, yeah, exactly, yeah, it's a different day. - Exactly. And it all smells like fish. - Get moving on to club penguin. So, the military gets interested allegedly in Polhark around like the 1950s. So, summer of 1952, Lieutenant Colonel John Stanley from the Army Psychological Warfare Unit visits Polhark's operation. And then Polhark eventually sends his findings to the military contacts. And then in November of 1952, Polhark goes to the Pentagon to present to them. Basically, this guy, Lieutenant Stanley, was like, "Hey, this is pretty wild. "You gotta go talk to the boys over at the shape." And he goes in there with a paper that says, "This is the title of the paper." An evaluation of the possible usefulness of extra-sensory perception in psychological warfare, which is pretty solid title. - Yeah, that's the Pentagon, that will get the boys going. - Interesting working title, right? If you hear that, you're like, "I'm interested in who's on the project." - I'm sure I'm sure of this seminar. - Who's the EP on this? Like, how do I get involved? - Yeah. - And the logic here is like, look, even if 99% of psychic powers are BS, what if the Soviets are investigating the 1%, we have to get involved too. And if remote viewing works once, then we're in massive trouble. 'Cause what if they're able to get one hit and they're actually able to see one of our missile silos or one of our, you know, nuclear weapon placements around the globe, that could be disastrous. And all of a sudden, that one view is worth billions of dollars. So that's kind of where they're going. So he does the presentation in November, and then New Year's Eve, 1952. The story here explodes. He becomes close to the guy named Dr. DG Vinod. Dr. Vinod is a Hindu scholar from India. And Paharic claims that when they first met, Vinod goes up to him, and they're kind of chitchat. And he's like, so you're a psychic. And again, Paharic is like still a scientist, but open. He's a sort of a skeptical believer, you could say. And according to Paharic, Vinod grabs his ring finger and then describes extremely detailed, intimate and personal details of Paharic's life. And at this party, he grabs his hand, and he goes, your mom's name is this, and she had this type of illness that she never told anyone about. He only found out after she died than you never told anyone. And then da da da da da da, you're fell in love with this girl, but then you never saw her again, you're heartbroken about it. And Paharic kind of came away from it, being like, holy shit. This is the real deal. So then he calls a Vinod and goes, hey, get your ass up to main, buddy. So then December 31, 1952, Vinod goes into this Faraday chamber and starts entering into a trance and starts speaking. And from Paharic's perspective, he starts speaking as this other entity, as like another consciousness basically receives the signal of his receiver brain and then starts transmitting a message. And the message is kind of these principles that there is an eternal collective intelligence that exists beyond ordinary human existence, working beneath the creator, sort of like the monad, like universal consciousness, and it's helping guide the evolution of all civilizations and all humans, and they're not like ghosts. They are like the admins of the universe. Crazy, yeah, that's the, that's for, that's what his story is. He's like, dude, this guy came in, started just explaining the secrets of the universe. I don't know what to do with this. Now, the Y-Files went deeper and they said there was another say on it's in June of 1953, where Paharic supposedly gathered nine people at the main estate and they had one person that was supposed to correspond with each of these nine entities. Now, eight are described as like wealthy, connected, interesting, open sort of mystics, and then Paharic is the ninth, and Vinod acts as the channel. And so during the say-ons, each one basically grabs a different thread that is reminiscent of like Hindu initiation ceremonies of like the Brahmin sort of priests when they become a part of like the spiritual tribe. And the nine participants are then supposedly like, they pick up the thing and they receive different messages about transforming civilization. And this is the part of the Y-Files kind of connection. So I've been like verified that independently. But this is a part of apparently Paharic's additional sort of research and to try to figure out what's really going on. So it goes even further. - Yeah, these nine are not the nine. - But it happens to be nine. - There is the nine. - Nine intelligences that are going through. - They said he gathered nine people. - He gathered nine human beings to basically then communicate with each of the nine entities. That was his thought. - And were they Rip and Iawaska or they just vibing? - The word is for most of these. Maybe later there's like some drug use that we'll talk about. But generally it was sober. - But they're just able to lock in. - Do in meditation. - Do in meditation. - I don't know, breath work. I don't know how it works. I've never experienced this. - Yeah. - But 1953 Paharic then joins the Army Medical Corps and gets assigned to Edgewood Arsenal, which later becomes infamous for US military experiments involving thousands of soldiers and substance.
is including LSD, mescaline nerve agents, and other psychoactive compounds. So now he's joining the legit like military site where they're doing a lot of like the medical mind control sessions. And this is where it's like, this is like on the record where it's like, yeah, he was actually a part of this as a scientist doing like consciousness as like a weapon. For like, it's crazy. Now, this is where things go even further, more into like the drug lane. In 1954, Pujarik hears about this Dutch sculptor named Harry Stone. Harry Stone has a crazy story for a sculptor. Crazy, right? There's like, there's no way this is real fire. Harry Stone. Yeah, that's sick. Oh, this stone's a bit airy. That one's a bit airy. Maybe we'll clean it up a little bit. Yeah. Not a Dutch accent. But I imagine he's right. Right. You know, study, hit us. A place in London certainly, right? Sure. Yeah. My Dutch accent's much worse also. Yeah. How do you do that? It's kind of like, no, I just want to go like Hansen for Hansen. Yeah. Dyncan Dorken. Yeah. It's a little tough. But I can say a couple things in Dutch. Really? Yphep McDoerst. Is that your good name? No. That means I'm thirsty. Damn. I spoke Dutch for the first three years of my life. That's not true. Mm-hmm. Who speaks Dutch? My babysitter, caretaker neighbor who lived next door and watched my brother and I taught us how to speak Dutch to like airplane, flytach, what, hot phadama. I'd never news. Well, yeah, then I went to school and then I just, you know, wiped and now I can't really speak it anymore. But I still like chocolate and ice skating. And ovens? Yeah. Yeah. And ovens. You got scared there for a second? Yeah. I was like, oh, where are we going with that? Oh, Dutch ovens. Yeah. My favorite type. Yeah. A little too. Hey guys, we're going to take a break really quick because if you know me, you know, I'm constantly trying to find the perfect level of stimulation. Yeah. I want enough energy at the beginning of the day to go to the gym, be a good dad, and then record a three hour podcast about like ancient civilizations or the night's temple or something like that. So, you know, I like a little caffeine, but if I do too much caffeine, I can start to hear my own heartbeat coming through my chest. And that is where mud water comes in. Mud water is a coffee alternative made with functional mushrooms and adaptogens with about like one-seventh the caffeine of a regular cup of coffee. So you're going to get that morning ritual, you're going to get the focused energy without feeling like you're cracked out or without the crash that you get from caffeine. Now, I've been trying the OG blend, which is like cacao, you got a little bit of chai, you know, you get some some ratio. And then, of course, you get functional mushrooms. It's warm. It's a little spicy. 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Ultra is the ultimate guilt free pouch delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine and caffeine. And I've great news. If you are listening to this program right now when you use the code camp, you will get 15% off when you go to take ultra.com. That is take ultra.com, use the code camp for 15% off. And after you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about them, tell them that Mark increased those from the campsite sent you let's get back to the show. Now, this guy apparently is handling like Egyptian artifacts because he's a sculptor. He's into these Egyptian artifacts. He's going to recreate them and like this is part of his art thing. And apparently without any other type of experience in this, he starts having like these weird sort of metaphysical experiences and like having these transes. And he goes into one of these transes. And identifies the entity taking over him as raw hotep. That is supposedly an ancient Egyptian entity. And raw hotep during one of these sessions with this guy describes consciousness as being separate from the body. And that there is a sacred plant that you can use to communicate with spirits and gods and this general consciousness that you're already technically a part of. And Puhara hears about this and determines that it is a manita muscaria. The Red Mushroom, right? The Super Mario Mushroom. Yeah. And one that Christmas is supposedly based off of that's what they said. Yeah. And it's the classic Red Mushroom white does you probably seen a picture of it. And eventually experiments with this like learned that there were altered states that you could get into using this medicine. And Puhara is like, I think it has a connection to psychic function. And then that contributes to the book, The Sacred Mushroom in 1959, which is like a super famous book. And at the same time, CIA is also digging into mushrooms. So roughly the same time that Puhara is learning about all this, this guy Gordon Wasson. That's the best job to get at the CIA. There's so many like horrible CIA jobs. They're like, you gotta go fucking, you know, do whatever. What killed this guy. Yeah, ruined this wetting. Do whatever. Do whatever. Whatever. All this shit. Go to some place you didn't want to go. And then it's like you, you get to be a trippy fun guy. Yeah. Let's go to some fish shows. Literally a trippy fun guy. Yeah. Look at you. Yeah. That's kind of fire, right? Yeah. This guy's a JP Morgan executive who becomes obsessed with mushroom use in 1955. A lot of those days. He needs these days. Yeah, he's the OG. He participates in a traditional Aztec mushroom ceremony with a healer named Maria Sabina. This woman is like kind of an ancient shaman living in Central America that kind of preserves the entire ritual when a lot of the sort of mushroom ceremonies were like suppressed. She's like one of the few people that preserved it. Part of the reason we know anything about mushroom ceremonies or even like how to do mushrooms is because of her. Shout out. And this guy went down there and like figured it out. And then around the same time, because of him, a CIA researcher named James Moore gets involved. And he gets funding for a mushroom expedition to go down there and start collecting all these mushroom samples and analyzing them. And it's underneath the thing called the guest sticker fund. And that is a subcategory of MK Ultra sub project 58. So MK Ultra is a legit project underneath that is this guest sticker fund. And that fund is legit doing mushroom expeditions going to Central America trying to figure out can psychedelics change our consciousness? Yes. Crazy. Yeah. Which, I mean, in my personal experience, they kind of can. Yeah. Yeah. First hand. I've done the research. It can get buck out there. Yeah. I was recently in Josh, which I communed directly with the desert spirits. It was crazy. Okay. I didn't even take that money. I took a little bit. And I just slumped under a rock out there and I was like, oh, yeah, we're with the desert spirits now. And what did you hear about it? It was a lot about how beautiful and connected the entire universe is and to really not worry about life and death because you're part of something bigger. But then also because I was in the desert, I would get these like almost like spidery like visuals and like, I was like, oh, damn, these are the desert spirits. I didn't know about them. Whoa. It just fell like some Josh, which we shit. Sick. You know? Yeah. It was pretty suck. It was tight. Yeah. We're all just waves in an ocean, you know? Yeah, dude. You see us for a moment. Are we not part of the ocean still? Yeah. You can identify the individual waves, but we come when we crash. Yeah. We had a good time. Pretty sick. Yeah. We should do it again. We should. And we might. Forshadowing. Now, there is a crazy detail here that if you are slightly skeptical, this is going to be the biggest source of skepticism, the whole thing that is a very fun irony. Puharic is working on a technology at the same time again. He's a patent guy inventor, yada yada. He develops the technology capable of transmitting sounds through dental bone conduction mechanisms and literally gets the patch in 1965. So the public use is like, hey, this is a hearing technology. If you can put like a transceiver in your teeth, you can kind of use like job bone technology to then hear through your mullers. Well, cool thing. Yeah. He makes it possible. Now, that's the public facing thing. Can you guess what the. - Military use of this. - I'm putting shit in your teeth. - Secret communication. - Yeah. And not only see your communication on you, but on someone else. So like, hey, we're gonna send a spy somewhere we need to communicate with them over distance. We're gonna send a radio wave into their molars to then talk to them. - That's fucking insane. - Pat into technology. Now, what if you're able to flip a dentist for some dictator in the Middle East? You get him on your side. - Yeah. - He does some dental work. So, hey, we got a root canal, puts in a little receiver, and all of a sudden that guy starts hearing voices. - Oh shit, going crazy. - It is a real technology that was patented freaking seven years ago. - Oh. - Where is it at now? - Who knows? - It could have been dictators of random countries who's hearing like, "You should suck FDR's." (laughing) Literally, same whatever. Like basically-- - They came weak in the knees. - OG and practical jokers. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Ask her, she's pregnant. - Yeah. And he's like, "I want to do it. "I don't want to say it." - Damn. - Yeah. - Crazy, right? - They were doing the actual jokers vibes on scientists. - And then in the last episode we did on this, we brought up Lucille Ball. - Oh. - I love Lucille. - Yeah. - And she has a famous story where she's talking on the dick habit show. Don't say it. - I'm not. - And she talks dick and ball hanging out. (laughing) - Come on, that's good. (laughing) - He's like the Jordan Venus jokes. It's truly unbelievable. I mean, he's like, "He's a hump man." - She's 10 for 10, dude. - It's crazy. - And she basically says that she accidentally discovered an underground Japanese spy network by driving over a spot and curing Morse code in her gold molars. - What? - 'Cause she had feelings and she was like, "Yeah, I heard this. "I reported to someone. "They investigated it." Turns out it was a secret Japanese bunker where they were sending Morse code. - Jesus. - Crazy. - So you literally had dental feelings that actually has a crystal radio to pick up audio broadcasts and transmit them via bone conduction. - What the fuck? - So not only is the patent real, but there's also anecdotal kind of independent. - Yeah, this isn't even about using that technology. It's just about what your molars can do. - Accidentally, if you have some feelings, all of a sudden you pick up a signal. - Damn. - Now, we're gonna introduce another character of the story. 1971, Poharic goes to Israel. To meet a 24 year old mystic. - A guy named Yuri Geller. - You ever heard of Yuri Geller? - No. - Super famous in the Paris psychology world. - Not my beat. - He claims that he can bend spoons, he can stopwatch his readers. - They always, it's always the spoon. - He's the guy that loved to bend the spoon. - He pioneered this. - He's the spoon guy. - He's like, if you've heard of spoons, you've heard of Yuri Geller. - I've heard of spoons. - And basically, Poharic kind of regresses him. And you have to keep in mind for basically 15 years, Poharic was doing this stuff and the psychics that wasn't really working and he kind of stopped a lot of the research. She was like, it's not giving me the signals. Like some of the psychics were working, but he loses contact with the node, this other Irish mystic, she's not coming back. And how he's like, all right, the case is kind of gone cold. But then he hears about Yuri Geller, brings Yuri in, and then the voice starts to turn. - Start picking up change from across the room. (laughing) - I can hear, I can hear money. (laughing) - I can sense an opportunity. (laughing) - That's just a fun Jewish joke with friends on it now. - It's such a low level stereotype, but you know, whatever we're doing. - God bless the tribe, God bless everybody. We love everybody here. - It's just too funny, right? - Just funny. - So basically, the voice is returned and Yuri Geller starts going through this process with Poharic at a young age. While he's also proving his psychic abilities on like a global stage, he goes on, you know, Johnny Carson and allegedly is able to bend the spoon with Johnny Carson, stuff like that. And also he starts talking to this entity, the spirit again, and starts communicating more stuff about this intelligence that Poharic did not know before. One of these things is that there is, apparently a whole civilization of this intelligence that exists beyond our reality. And Geller is the chosen representative at this time, because they claim that his abilities are basically implanted from childhood in that he's there to be the receiver of this information. So, Yuri Geller now comes United States, goes to the Stanford Research Institute and researchers how put off Russell Targ, and then the Apollo astronaut Edgar Mitchell help do research on him. And he undergoes experiments using hidden images like remote viewing, sealed targets, like remote viewing, and then possible psychokinetic effects like bending spoons and stuff like that. And eventually Targ and put off publish their results, which are like, hey, there's a above statistically random accuracy that this guy has that seems very strange. They publish it in nature in 1974. This is a massive science publication. And it is, you know, it's not like in some random alien pamphlet. It's like in a proper thing. And it becomes like massive news. Everyone's reading about it. Everyone's like, holy shit, this is crazy. An actual scientific publication research that came out of Stanford is now saying that like remote viewing is confirmed. That's crazy. And then apparently skeptics all come out. And then one of the main things that people are pulling at is they're like, did anyone check your Gellar's teeth? Because they're like, okay, Puharic and Gellar are working together. Puharic also has a patent on the-- - Because he's feeding him the information. - So now people are like putting in all sorts of skepticism around this. Puharic is like, no, I'm just a developer. I do this on the side. There's no connection. And as a result, Gellar starts becoming super famous but also distancing himself from Puharic and creating a little bit of distance. Because he's like, well, I don't want to be associated with this guy if he's bad for my brand. - Right. And so then that's another ripple to this whole thing. And then it goes even further. Because then there's this guy, John Whitmore. He's a British aristocrat. And then there's this woman, Phyllis Schlimmer. She's a transmedium that's able to do transes. And she eventually starts to begin like, channeling an entity known as Aetum. Aetum says that he is the Egyptian creator God and that says that there are nine other gods. So there's Aetum, Shu, Tefnut, Geb, Osiris, Isis, Set, Nefthesis, and Nutt. These are the gods. - Yeah. - And they call themselves the Enniad, which is literally like Greek like NEA, which is nine. - It is not, it's NUT. - NUT, okay. - That is the Egyptian God that controls our life. - Yeah, well, that's true. - Yeah. - You ever been controlled by a nut before? - Yeah, I know. I get that. - You've done some dastroly things. And so through this channeling that Puharic is involved with, there's a bunch of revelations that come out. They claim connections to ancient Egypt and the Sphinx and that there's secret burials underneath the Sphinx paw and like extraterrestrial experience with all these ancient civilizations and all this crazy stuff, basically like ancient aliens vibes. And then somehow that story gets even better because there's a guy that is at all of these channeling sessions, Whitmore brings him into this circle to like watch this woman like basically be the receiver for these entities. And his idea is like, oh, this is pretty cool. I've already worked on some film projects. I'm going to make a movie about this council. So he sits in and he takes notes and he starts questioning the channelers and he's like talking to the intelligences and the entity is like claiming to be an advanced intelligence associated with like ancient civilization like all humans. And that guy's named Gene Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek. Oh. So pretty crazy little term of events. Now he started Star Trek in 1969 and then Star Trek was kind of like, you know, struggling. And then he ostensibly is involved in this sort of like medium process and then uses that as inspiration. So Star Trek gets better after he commutes with the mediums. People dispute this. Right. Like, for example, Ajif and the White File says that apparently Roddenberry is a little bit skeptical and kind of unimpressed with this whole like trans thing. He's like, it doesn't really believe it. But then he ends up naming one of the characters in deep space nine in a, like one of the characters from one of his worlds and he names him Vinod. Based off of the very first Hindu scholar that was involved in this whole thing. Yeah. So some people are like, oh, it's just like fun trivia. Other people are like-- Yeah, and sometimes you're just pulling from, I heard this and I don't know if it's true, but it's a fun story. It's a good illusion, you know. So basically from this later sessions produced an entire cosmology where they're like, there's God. God is not a guy with a beard. He's a unified infinite consciousness. And there's now like an organization chart where like the nine basically oversees 24 civilizations. So God was like, we gotta build this org out. Yeah, of course. We're gonna need an org chart. We're gonna need some structure. It's just a business. Exactly. Exactly. It's a consultant. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I kind of just kind of wants to retire a little bit. He wants to spend time with his son who just got back. Exactly, he's looking for an exit. Yeah. He's got to spend time with the family. Yeah, he's got to sell it to a different guy. Exactly. You got to-- Who can find it? Everything is in acquisition. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think consciousness could be an IPO. If you understand M and A law, you understand-- You understand everything. Truly. That's what it is. And so there's a bunch of civilizations. There's Altia. That's apparently connected with Atlantis. There's Ashon, which is connected with non-human intelligence. There's Huba, which is supposedly deeply connected to Earth's development. And they include a bunch of claims about like the ancient Israelites in Jesus and like early human seeding. And this is all coming through in these transes apparently. Right. and the the according to this world you are a lot of the
Earth is one of the few places with genuine free will. Other civilizations have to operate with a universal order, but humans are like, no. Which is why humans and the Earth is so important, because we have ego and fear and violence and greed that all these other civilizations don't have to deal with. So according to, again, Puharks worked with this medium, is that the aliens are waiting. And this is the cosmic revelation. And their advice is just like, hey, we should all meditate. We all need to take responsibility for our actions. We have to protect the planet. We have to generate love, promote peace. We have to pay attention to geopolitical conflicts, specifically the Middle East. And we need to raise our universal consciousness. And then that is when, ultimately, the nine will come back into full communication with us. Crazy. It's always a comeback. Yeah. Now, the WIFIles makes a connection here that I think is a little bit of a road, but it gets to JFK. Ah, so this is kind of like a bonus rabbit hole, all right? Well, JFK loved a road, but he died doing what he loves. So there's this guy that named Arthur Young. He's the Bell helicopter engineer. He supported Puharks and like funded to his initial thing up in Maine. Arthur Young is married to Ruth Forbes' pain young. And her son is Michael Payne. Michael worked at Bell helicopter with his dad and the whole thing. And then Michael's separated wife was Ruth Payne. Now, this is a different Ruth. But Ruth Payne's best friend is Marina Oswald, the wife of Lee Harvey Oswald. So Marina eventually moved into Ruth Payne's house in Irving, Texas. The Oswald rifle was stored in that garage. And so Ruth Payne also helped Oswald hear about the job at the Texas School Book Depository. So this whole chain here is like, you have like a council of nine circle. Ruth Forbes' pain young, her son Michael Payne, his wife Ruth Payne, best friends with Marina Oswald, Lee Harvey Oswald, and then kills JFK. God damn. So maybe the aliens wanted JFK dead. I don't know. Yeah, kind of a run here, but that's-- Yeah, yeah, it's hard to connect any of it, right? I mean, it's like there's all there's many, many stories of people saying, hey, I finally figured out how the world works and the line between your allunatic who lives on the street or you're part of a conspiracy or you're literally regarded as a profit is very thin. Yeah, yeah, that is fair. Yeah. Now, back to Baharic, he then gets a New York operation where he's like, I need more people to help channel more information about this cosmic consciousness. He's like, at this point, full of work. He's like a single question. Yeah. He's just giving single energy. Can we get a fact check on that? I bet she's got a wife. You think so? Maybe it's a lab in America. At some point, the wife would be like enough. Yeah. How about you communicate with me? Yeah. How about that? Yeah. How about we take a trip to Amalfi? Yeah. How about we experience Italy, for example? It is hard. Yeah. You can't really decode all the secrets of the universe if you're just getting pummeled off spritzes in the Amalfi coast. Yeah. It's definitely going to affect your pineal gland. Oh, he's married to Rebecca Alben. Yeah. And his friend. And maybe other people. And who worth the. Okay. Oh, bros. Oh, spouses. Let's go to spouses. Yeah. Okay. So, Virginia Jackson, Rebecca Alben Hofberger, and then Beth Hermanns. Virginia, I assume, died. Is that what the red text means? I don't know. I don't know. Other amazing people. Look at Peter Page. Jeannie Jackson. But maybe she. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. What's looks like he only got divorced from one of them. Yeah. So maybe she passed away. Well, it got blessed. Yeah. Shout out to her. Hopefully he found her in the afters. Apartment after the homies. Yeah. Jeannie. That's. How cool would that be? If reality and consciousness just had one big after. I. I think that's what Heaven is supposed to be. Just an after. The ultimate. The ultimate after. The ultimate afters. Everyone's vibe and everyone's there, but you never get sick of being there. That's the worst part about the afters. It's like six o'clock. And you're like, "I got to go home." Yeah. It's to do yelling at you about something. And you're like, "I want to. " You just reached to like, "What am I doing?" But the sun starts coming up. And you're like, "I might as well stay here." Then you're thinking about like, "Should I get food right now?" Yeah. And this guy's just talking about like, "You're a Geller and Aliens." And you're like, "Mahad." Yeah. You'd be a menace if the afters. Oh, yeah. That's why I don't get it. I'd be like, "We just play a game." You're like, "No, dude." Secretities. The most viewed. So, Pooharks, like, I need to come up with a way to get more mediums. So he develops Lab 9. And then he's like, "Wait a second. As we get older, our ability to sense sort of extra-sensary abilities. Our ability to actually channel these things gets calcified." And so there's a big sort of theory amongst a lot of these people that like, "Kids have a natural sense." So he gets like roughly 20 kids and teenagers that become involved, and he names them the space kids. And I don't know if I let my kid do that. Sometimes he calls them the "Gellerlings." Okay. And the kids, according to Pooharks, they remote view the Kremlin. They remote view the White House. They receive advanced information. They communicate with extra trust rules, materialized objects, and some of which allegedly teleport. He even claims that several kids physically arrived at his property through teleportation, which the only evidence we have here is Pooharks own testimony for the record. Yeah. This guy's a little too locked in to trust his personal testimony. It's also a little tough to explain that in a court of law. Yeah. Like, look, these kids teleported to my house. I had nothing to do. Yeah. Judges like, uh, straight back to the record. Yeah. That's, uh, that's a little sus. I don't know anyone across anyone. He's a little too deep in the weeds, but it is interesting. I do understand this concept of I do think that as you're like, what is it? Your frontal cortex develops you, and you become like so hyper logical. You lose touch with certain things. Like, I think a lot of people's most mystical experiences happen younger. People even are better at making music when they're younger because they're more tapped into emotional things. Yeah. I mean, if you look at like famous musicians, almost very few of them put out their seminal works when they're old. Now, that could be us not liking old people, but it could also be not being tapped into the yellow hoosie watsit, even though you're more technically sound. Yeah. But people talk about this all the time. We're like, little kids will, you know, talk about like past lives, who like, you're my mom, but I miss my other mommy. I'm like, what do you mean your other mommy? They're like, oh, the mom I had before you. And apparently like kids will say this like, not infrequently, and they'll just like make a little comments like that. And it's like, did you see that from a T-shirt? What's your wife going to do if your child says that? I'd be so stoked. You'd be stoked. Fight a psychic kid. Yeah. You'd be like, come be on the pod. Yeah. I'd be like, immediately, okay? Get an emoji over his face the whole time and let him do the pod. Exactly. Get a phone book. Sit down and start. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Tell me about the aliens. What would your wife be pressed by that? Um, I don't think she would be like, she wouldn't be too upset. I don't think she'd be pissed, but I don't think she's going to be like, great. I don't think she's going to send him to a fucking beat that your old mom's ass at parenting. How about that? I don't think she's going to send him to Paharic's Space Camp. But kids also say shit that makes no sense. Also true. You know? That's reasonable. Yeah. They'll be like, I'm a fire truck. And we're not like, holy shit. But maybe in his past life. Children's wisdom is beautiful. Maybe in his past life. Yeah. For protesters in Selma. Maybe. It's possible. Maybe. We never know. You can't say. So then tragedy strikes 1978 at Paharic's property in Austin, New York. That pronounced that right. Austin. Yeah. Not in the original episode. A lot of people called you out on it. I'm sorry. Basically, everything burns down. And the police report concludes arson. So like the lab, the notes, the recordings, all the research material becomes. Destroyed. And Paharic is convinced the CIA destroyed this. Now, according to the WIFILES and the research that AJ did, he states that Paharic was away, the children were in the house and they escaped, but the family dog died in the fire. And also Paharic already published major parts of his story before the fire. So like not all the CIA evidence was destroyed. Right. Or not all the evidence was destroyed by the CIA. And yeah, this is like just a piece of the whole kind of puzzle. No, he goes to Mexico for a period of time and then goes to Europe for a little and then eventually goes back to North Carolina and passes away. God bless. Yeah. He hangs out in Mexico City. He's like, there's some probably mystical things going on here. That's probably awesome. Yeah. Yeah. But once again, these channeling mediums don't stop. So we did an entire episode on the raw tapes. All right. Not R&W. I was going to say, I've seen them. And that creates a whole thing of like the law of one where there's another transmedium that interprets like an entire like full on philosophy over like 158 recorded sessions from this entity claiming to be raw. And there's a whole thing. They eventually ask raw about the council of nine because they hear about Paharic's research and raw during a totally different transcession that Paharic's not involved with says the council exists. There's nine members. Their guardian function is involving Earth and they are associated with Saturn and they operate beyond ordinary time. They're associated with Saturn. Perhaps it's where they live. That's for their connection. That's their symbol. Who knows? So we think they're physical beings just posted up on. I think we can see Saturn pretty well. Yeah. You know? Maybe they're on the rings. I don't know. It's possible. They might be out there. It's possible. It could also none of it could be true. Yeah. That's possible to as well. 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[email protected]. And after you purchase, they're going to ask how you heard about them. Make sure you tell them that Mark increased us from the campsite, sent you. So let's go through some theories, okay? Like, the heart's full life. Yes. As well as the raw tapes and all that stuff. Possible theory A, something you actually contact them. Consciously maybe is non-local. There's a higher intelligence out there. Humans are interpreting those intelligences through like culture, so like Egyptians are like gods. And then Christians are like angels. And then the modern person is like, interdimensional beings that we're communicating with that's like an ancient consciousness. That's one. Another one is that the human mind is collaboratively building a mythology. So maybe no one is like consciously lying, but like one medium says something and other person kind of interprets it and a researcher writes it down. Someone reads a book, another medium channels, like another similar thing that she or he thinks. And then obviously the repetition feels like confirmation, but no one is remembering where this original idea comes from. Kind of like a meme. There's also like psychological experimentation, right? Like there's powerful institutions that really did investigate like hypnosis and remote viewing and like psychological warfare. So the question is not like, did the government really do this because they did? The bigger part is like how much of this is, how much of this mythology is overlapping with those projects? And like is it possible that like we're tying in a bunch of different threads here to kind of like form one cohesive theory? Yeah. I think it could be any of this. It could be any. Well, I'm, where are you at? Generally, I'm gonna say, I think I don't think consciousness is just in her brains. I think it's gotta be out there somewhere. Like you take mushrooms and you're like dude, we're all connected. This is crazy. So that's a thread, right? I also like believe in God. Well, I'm like, okay, well, there's something else out there. There's something going on. So we're not, we're not the only things, you know, thinking in the universe. So then it's like, is it possible like fully receive information from outside our consciousness, like remote viewing? I'm like, I'm gonna give like a 51% likelihood. Where I'm like, I think low key one person maybe could have. But I can't just tell if I wanna believe that, but I also look at some of these research docs where like the US government, I'm like, there's something going on. Yeah, it's very, there's very clearly something that we don't understand. And I think that in our attempts to grasp something that is beyond us, sometimes we report through, it could be, you know, years of storytelling or whatever. We report things with full certitude. Like, hey, I figured it out. And none of those end up being reliable. Yeah. But they're all trying to describe the same thing. Like the one feeling I've got every time I've, and sometimes I just take streams and like vibe. But like the times that I've done it and like felt like, oh, I'm like experiencing some sort of other realm. It's always this thing of like everyone is trying to describe something, but there is no way to fully describe it. And so whenever I come back and start describing it, even that is imperfect. Right. But if you're trusting that whoever went over there to experience something is reporting back the exact thing and then you get dogmatic about those exact words and lessons and whatever, then you end up getting into territory where like, no, some of it was probably true. And some of it's probably false and then scientifically none of it adds up. Yeah, exactly. But it's all, but like experience is also a hard thing to try to, like all I can land out is like, no, there's something. How do you describe like the experience of love or like any other type of like subjective experience? It's like, I can't begin your brain. You can't be in my brain, right? So it's like, how do you even, like you can't even really know that? I remember thinking about this like since I was like five years old, or like my brother liked orange juice and I didn't. And I was just like, what if it just tastes completely opposite to this? Yeah. And we're having the same thing, but our experience of it is so different. And even as I grow, get older and like it, it could be, who knows if it's totally different? Yeah. There's no actual way to guarantee it. And so trying to like put a scientific process, which I get the need for scientific methodology. But on like, it is important because otherwise, you can't take any of this shit to the bank. No, but even still there's limitations to the process where you're trying to describe this subjective psychedelic experience. Right. And science has been very wrong in the past about certain things as well. About some things, right? But it's, you know. So it's, it becomes like hazardous in that way. But then the fact like the military is interested, the governments are interested. Other people are like using this kind of stuff. Like the Nazis were using the Pendulum Institute, trying to like find, you know, American ships out into Atlantic to our World War II, pulling psychics out of concentration, can't be like, figure out where the boats are. Again, did it work? No, the Nazis lost. But there's something in there where I'm like, I can't imagine all these people are doing this for no reason. Right. But I've never experienced this, so I don't know. But I'm like, there's something going on. Now as far as this specific case, like is it possible to park? Was like straight up channeling something? It's hard for me to believe what I haven't seen, you know? Yeah, like without actually being there, it's like hard for me to be like, this is going on. Now I did talk to a friend of mine just recently, grew up in a cult. And in the cult that he grew up in, there was one of these transmediums. And that was like the leader of the cult. And he would go to these trans sessions, like once a week, and the medium would receive messages from a four long sort of like human. That was like a nobleman, like a doctor back in the day. And was also tapping into like, basically this universal consciousness and like sharing truths about the universe. And I asked him straight up, he's a very smart guy, very nice dude, and like a very like generally, like analytical, reasonable human being. Like if you met him, you'd be like, oh, this is like the most normal guy. Yeah. And he was like, sometimes it was true for me, and sometimes it wasn't. So he's like, do I know for a fact that like this whole thing is BS? No. But do I know for a fact that it was 100% true? Like also no. So even someone that went there, he was like, I don't know what to make of it. Yeah, but you know, if you're tapped into the infinite truths of a being who knows the full reality of the universe, you should be batting 1,000. You would think, right? You kind of have to be. Yeah. You can't be batting 500. Yeah. You know. But then I'm like, and then it's like the, it's imperfect, maybe some of it is good information and you're tapped into something and then sometimes it, you know, muddles up. And then there's a puzzle at the medium is like, yeah, exactly. There's a puzzle at the medium is like getting messages sometimes and then sometimes not. And it's like, oh man, I kind of go, yeah, it's got a deadline. Yeah, I kind of got like, I had no choice. I was up late. I didn't have time to receive transmissions. Yeah. So now I got to kind of phone it in. Yeah. Then you had the telepathy tapes on top of that. You should listen to that part. Yeah. Where it's like these kids with autism that apparently have telepathic powers. And you're like, there's no way. Then you start like hearing the studies are doing. You're like, what is it going on? Yeah, I heard there was some thing. I haven't viewed the source material, but I heard there was some story about like a detective who partnered with, who was very skeptical. I didn't believe any of this shit, but he was working on these cold cases. And then he partnered with the psychic and like immediately solve the bunch of them that he would have never been able to find in the other way. So what's going on? But then it's also like, I'm driving on the highway and there's like a fucking shack that's like, I'm a psychic and I'm like, okay, well, you're probably not. (laughing) We're 20.
dollars, you're a psychic, I don't think so. - Yeah. - I forget the name of that specific case, the woman that did that. - Yeah. But it's another crazy one. We're like, it is also the same thing. - It's just we have something is sometimes true and you wanna have a rigorous scientific mind about things. Because the problem is if you're too easy to believe then you can get led astray. And more often than not, people who are claiming this ability end up being full of shit. - Yeah. - But that does, and so being skeptical feels good because you realize you're not a mark or whatever. - No fence. - What is that? - No fence. But over skepticism I think can end up reading to me just as dogmatic. - Yeah. - Like I have friends who are like very confident atheists and I'm just like, I'm not religious but it's like, someone who's like, I'm pretty sure there's no God. I've checked and I know for a fact. And then someone who's like super religious and's like, I'm pretty sure my God's the only one. And like, you're like, why? - I'm like, yeah. I'm like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm right. - Yeah. (laughing) Pretty sure how I've been thinking about everything is right all along. - Yeah, I'm a little-- - Just do your best. - I'm a little versed to like certainty. Right, I'm like, there's too much like weird stuff for me to believe like what we can see is the only thing that there is. But I'm also-- - A lot of the smartest people in your life have no problem saying, so I don't know about that. - Yeah. - But then also-- - Yeah, you could because they're being rigorous with themselves and saying like, yeah, I can't say for sure. I don't know. - But also a hyper-dogmatic believer that's like, dude, God's real. And actually I've seen him. I'm like-- - So intoxicating. - But I'm like, maybe. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, I hold it. I've reserved a little bit of-- - And it's easier to trick the weakest people when you have the strongest statement. - Yeah, it is pretty compelling. Especially if you need something, you're like, hey, I talked to God and he actually only talks to me. So if you want to talk to God-- - Right. - On the path. - We don't have to make this political, it just happens in politics, too. People will fucking promise you the world and be like, this is how it is. And it's just, finally, someone's just saying it. - Yeah. - And then they're just full of shit. - Yeah. I don't know. - If you could do Removian, would you try it? - Absolutely. - Would you try past life regression? - Oh, like checking back on my past life? - Yeah. - The first day I got it, I'd probably just be in the creep. (laughing) Removian, you can see anything? - Yeah, Removian past life regression is different. - Wait, wait. Removian, what? - Removian is different than past life regression. - Past life regression. So you can see your previous life. - Exactly. - This is under the superstition that reincarnation is real. - Yeah, let's say it, I don't know if I'm a reincarnation guy. I have no idea, but like, I don't know that. It seems like it, this is like the biggest cop out, but part of me is like, that'd be a little, it might be too intense. (laughing) - What if you look back at a past life? You're like, whoa! - Hey, stop doing that to him. He's a good kid. - I was a hitler. - Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's tough, that's tough. And then all of a sudden, you're like bringing that up on a first date, get a few too many drinks. And you're like, how was your week? You're like, I found out I used to be hitler. - I'm not anymore. - I'm not, I love everyone, but I'm used to be. - The girls are like, I am undownloading hinge immediately. - I don't want to do this at all. - Yeah, I liked him. I liked him, he has a good job, he has a good family. Very attractive. - Crazy, what a used to be hitler, and he's not six feet tall. Red flag. - So those two were deal break. - Literally red flag. - The red is flag, you're gonna be hit. - The literal red flag. (laughing) - Yeah, that is a little tough. - I don't know, I feel this way. I have a friend, really good family friend, super close, lover to death. And sometimes we would like get together, we do like a family Christmas party every year. And she's mystical, and she would do like a card reading. You know, and I don't really believe in any of this shit, like I love her. So I'm like, okay, she wants to do the card reading, we'll do the card reading. And we did it like a couple years in a row, and like it was like kind of intense, and like ended up being kind of spot on. And so it just got to the point where we were kind of like, she's like, "Should we do cards?" And we're like, "No!" - She's doing shots. - Twist her. - Twist her. - Twist her. - She's good. But I don't know, I don't know if I believe cards, or if I'm like, does she just know us? And she just know. But a lot of, she just hit on a lot of shit. And some of it is, some of that stuff I think is built around. There is some sort of narrative storytelling built into all this stuff that I think kind of like tricks the human brain, and especially when you're hearing about yourself, it's kind of exciting. And it's like-- - Yeah, and you feel they're gonna have a big year, but there's gonna be personal stuff too. And you're like, "No shit." - Yeah. - That's most years. But I don't know, it was enough that I was like, I don't know, you know, maybe let's just keep it chill. - It doesn't, I feel, where I'm like, okay, part of me is like just me filling in the gaps here. - Yeah. - But then I talked to a guy one time, like this is a very high earning CEO guy that I know. And he went to a business intruder. That's her job. - Yeah. - She's like, "I'm not a psychic, I'm not a medium, I'm an intruder." And he was like, "Okay, so we get some random zoom call "with this girl." And describes intimate details about his life to such a degree that he's like, I don't know how you know this. - She did? - Yeah. - And she like gets deep into his life and starts giving him advice about stuff that he never asked for and was like, and again, this is like a academic Ivy League educated, like wealth manager that manages like hundreds of million of dollars. And he walked away from being like, "I don't really believe in any of this stuff, "but it was a very strange afternoon." - But like so does like Nardwar. - Like the trip. - Maybe he was just good at doing research. - Maybe the witch? - Maybe Nardwar is the witch. Or like Oz. Like people think Oz, you know, he has like some tricks, but people think some of it is also just like finding people in your life and doing deep research also possible. And if I was doing it for CEOs and the value of that client was high enough, I might engage in some like private investigation and stuff like that, right? She might just be, she could just be a hacker. - Yeah. - Well, it gets into his phone. - I had another friend that was like, you know how some comedians are super good at crowd work where they can just like know things? Like they just are like, "Oh, you have this name, "so you're probably from this place." - Yeah. - And you're probably of this religion. And you're probably dating a guy and your parents don't like it. And like they're able to like, deduce things with extreme certainty. - Yeah. - I was talking to a friend and I was like, "What do you think is going on with this?" And he was like, "I wonder if these people are kind of like that." Or they're like, "Oh, you're a high-powered CEO. "You're probably stressed." And also your marriage isn't perfect. And also you miss your kids 'cause you don't spend a ton of time with them. - The dirty little secret of crowd work too is those people picked the clips where they look like a genius. Also that. - They're not showing you the clip where they're like, "Ah, okay, you're from Wales, huh?" And they're like, "Nope." And they're like, "Next." (laughs) - Yeah, moving on. - The next guy. - Moving on. - Forget this ever happened. - And someone who posts a lot of crowd work. I know. You know, he just posts the shit that hits. - What's your obviously, I'm the best at it, but. - Yeah, of course. - What's your start son? - What do you think it is? This is the other thing is everyone who has ever told me they know all this shit about horoscopes. And like I could be, I'm on stage talking for an hour. They've known me for years. I ask, they never know. - They're never right. - They're curious. - No. - That's a random guess. I don't know anything about horoscopes. - I'd need a capricorn. - Well, do you wanna know your daily reading? - I would love to. I will also tell you this. I, the funniest thing about capricorn too is, I'll be like, "I don't believe any of that shit. What do you think I am?" And they'll like guess three things. And then finally, I'll be like, "I'm a capricorn." They're like, "Of course, you don't believe in that." - Of course, yeah. - Capricorn is never believed. - You can't do that. - Yeah, that's. - Well, capricorn, you can see where a loved one has been going wrong, but they are still blind to the realities of the situation. So they will have to learn from their own mistakes while all you can do is be ready to help pick up the pieces. - Yeah. - That's probably true for everyone right now, though. - Well, what's yours, Chris? - I told you the last episode, do you remember? - Virgo. - Leo. - Dang it. - Last day of Leo, so you're kind of close. - All right, ready? - Yep. - Here's yours. It's good to listen to advice, but sometimes the best advice comes from within and what your inner voice tells you over the next 24 hours will personally provide the answer you've been looking for for a personal problem. It could also be pure gold financially. - Sounds like I'm pretty awesome. - Yeah, there's also also a great advice for everybody. It's just good advice to take. - Does that connect with you? - Over the next 24 hours, a little urgent, but. - Your body is rich, dude. - That's also the Virgo horoscope, so that's not Leo. - I read it. - By a day. - Oh, so you're close. - This is all just good advice. It should be on a day calendar. - Yeah, listen to yourself, believe in yourself. Like these aren't, this is great. And so that's where I'm like, and this is where it goes a lot of this shit that's non-scientific, but like probably helpful. - Yeah. - What's yours, Mark? - You ready? - Yeah. - You're a big fucking bitch. - Yeah. (laughing) - Why all caps gay? - You will push yourself too hard and you can strain yourself physically and have to sit out the fun and games over the weekend. Ignore what others say. Ignore what others say you should be doing and embrace the lazy Libra tag, which is actually far from true. - I would not be surprised if he made that up 'cause he doesn't wanna have fun this weekend. (laughing) - I think I don't even know if that's true, or if he saw the text for miles before I came in, it was like, anybody eating or drinking tonight? And Mark was like, hold up. Let me just mix this in an hour and a half into the pod and be like, I gotta lay low this weekend, guys. - Look dude, the scales of the sky said I gotta take it easy. What can I say? What can I say? All right, well one other thing for you, what about hypnosis? - Ah yeah, also skeptical. - Really? - Yeah. - That's one that I'm like, I don't know if you-- - It is weird, like I have seen like at shows. - Mm-hmm.
Hypnotists go up and do shit that like it works. Yeah, so like I don't there's there's something to it Um, I know there's like hypnotherapy But like I don't know I did crowd work with a hypnotherapist some my Instagram Joey every but um You know, I he was full shit. You did hypnotherapy. No, he was a hypnotherapist and he was explaining how it's like helpful And then I was like do you do it? And he's like, yeah, sometimes it's a little expensive Well, well, this is the thing that I don't get though because like I read a book about this reality is plastic Mm-hmm It's an interesting book about the philosophy of hypnosis where it's like I think there's one tier Which is basically like fake hypnosis where like a guy goes on stage and he's like you're at chicken and the person that Pretends to be a chicken is kind of doing like improv. Yeah, and then there's another level where it's like I talked to a guy that got hypnotized during a stage show and I was like what happened and he was like it felt like I was kind of in a dream where like I knew where I was but for some reason what he was saying like made sense But it it doesn't obviously want to look at the video, but like in the dream it made sense You know how things happen even dreams we were like Like we had to do this thing and like I don't know why, but it was super urgent in the dream Oh, dude I met gnomes in my dream the other night and what they talked about well First of all, it's like these gnomes can't possibly be real, you know the skeptics then I fucking dapped one up and it was crispy I was like yo dude now I'm dapin up these gnomes So I was hanging out with these gnomes, but like we were waiting for my mom to get home from this camping trip And it was taking forever and so the next thing I knew I was on like a daytime talk show with the gnomes And it was just kind of like TV with the gnomes What was the thing? I don't remember what I was kind of that was kind of it and then the next dream I was just ice skating. You want a viral clip? That's your viral clip. That's my clip right there So what do you do for work? Yeah, you make cookies in a dream? Interesting Interesting job the gnomes. Yeah, it was cool. Most of my dreams are usually just about like baseball, but this one was fun You have baseball dreams. Yeah, because it the worst is that Because I played baseball and in high school and I thought I was gonna play in college and that didn't work out And so I wonder if that's what the symbolism is because there's so many times where I'm like playing baseball I'm so excited because I get to go up and hit and then I'll wake up right before I get to hit Whoa, and I'm so fucking pissed because baseball's such a long game and really you're just trying to hit That's all life is that's all life is to kill by a nut shout out to nut Shout out to nut one of the nine dude, and if I don't nut I might as well join ice Very different gods very very different entities is this is big no nut November That was kind of their whole thing and then nut. I mean kind of self-explanatory. Yeah, so yeah, I guess with hypnosis like I Don't know if I feel like it's connected to some deeper thing But I do for sure understand that like people can put people into like sleepy suggestive states Well, there's also these cases that happen all the time of sexual assault during hypnosis That's not nice at all crazy, but that to me indicates like Something's going on. Yeah, where like these people are truly not They're not that this yeah, I mean, oh your job is that you control people's bodies. Yeah, that is damn But like there is a specific case of a woman that was leaving a hypnotist comedy show with Bill Cosby There was a woman that was leaving him you're getting Sleepy, I can't tell like Borat Sleepy Yeah, if you don't start with putting pop. It's hard to stay. Yeah He is a doctor. He is Dr. Huxble. Yeah, who was a kind of college fucks double. Oh my god. He was a gynecologist. Is that true? That is absolutely true And do you know where his office was in his basement? That's not good. That's not good Yeah, he was a OBGYN and he ran a medical practice out of the office on the ground floor of his family's Brooklyn Brownstone No, that's not great. There's scenes of him in the Cosby show walking upstairs with gloves on being like what what you're doing kids And like throwing the gloves down and like eating a sandwich Dude, what you had this lunch for a little wash? It's a little sketch. It's like yeah, you don't want to you don't want to shit where you sleep Yeah But there's all these cases of like women that claimed to go in for hypnotherapy trying to like quit smoking They come out of these sessions and they're like my broth feels weird What the hell and then they go into the secret camera and they discover they're getting assaulted and then the guy goes to jail forever And there's like I'm glad the guy goes to jail. Yeah, I mean most of the time some of the time he starts hitting the ties and dudes in jail and blasting them Yeah exactly Crazy, but there's all these cases. There's a guy in Michigan 2024 73-year-old hypnotherapist who was convicted of first degree sexual misconduct and A jury found him guilty of a sexually assaulting woman while they were under hypnotherapy 26 a self-tapped hypnotherapist went to trial for assaulting 14 women and Investigators discovered that rather than relying pure on a trans state. He was sleeping slipping pills into their mind Just the date rape hypnotist. Yeah, that is insane. It's crazy like what like how eff up is that these people are evil It is horrible and then on top of that this one is a crazy one I've never heard this one before lawsuit settles for $600,000 for families of three teens who died after being hypnotized by school principal What so principal Kenny was not a licensed hypnotherapist is coming from the demore law groups. I'm saying he is insane and he had been warned against hypnotizing students and He had hypnotized many of the before he hypnotized them. He had been told that he had to stop practicing hypnosis and This should have disqualified him from being principal You think hey, this is we're gonna give you three warnings Yeah, you gotta hey first of all you can be principal of the school if you stop hypnotizing We heard you're still hypnotizing and we would sternly like to say cut it out What if he's hypnotizing a bad kid for not doing bad thing? Right did it ever work, but wait, so kids died under hypnosis That's what did he have them do? That's what I'm trying to figure out three students Kenny was his last name Yes, I thought they were just calling him principal Gatty 2011 three students at Northport high school in Florida died within weeks of each other If you're being hypnotized by their principal So this 16 year old student died by self-harm a day after the hypnosis session A another student died in a car crash after being reportedly self-hypnotized a technique that he learned from Kenny And then a 17 year old student died by self-harm after receiving hypnosis for testing anxiety So what's going on with that could be a coincidence that like hey These are some some kids with some troubles and I'm gonna help them. He self hypnotized while he was driving Which I it's probably not a good one not a good idea But who knows maybe there's something with like disassociating someone's brain while you're hypnotizing them. I just a day after a hypnosis Not great Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, not great now But I'm like there's something with hypnosis the next two years. I think it's a little real Something with hypnosis. We get a picture of Kenny here. Hmm. That's a good question George Kenny There he is Down Jesus that guy down scrolled him. Dr. George Kenny. There he is There he is just fucking hitting the thighs and kids crazy now. What if he had an Indian name? I would fall if he had an Indian name. I would go with him till the end of the year Think if he was a principal sugar water none then I Then people would be like look he It's not his fault. Yeah, he's just trying to show him the light. Yeah All right, so let me ask you a couple questions just to button this thing up show. Yeah As far as non-local consciousness then maybe there's some type of consciousness outside of us. Do you give it like Not that weird or still pretty weird? I would say not that weird. I think I Ever the fence sitter. I think that consciousness might be Both I don't think that we're maybe just an antenna only receiving consciousness from outside I think that there's very clearly some level of it that is you know Exist within natively within the brain. Mm-hmm, but I do think it it is probably possible to Connect to something else and I think that us not knowing what that is is What leads to a lot of our differences of opinion on religion Matters of the extra terrestrial what happens after people die these sorts of things. Yeah Because it's unclear, but I think that we all feel like there's something We just don't know how to describe it remote viewing one person being able to find a target Hundreds of miles away and being able to see it weird or probably solved It's weird. I this one. I have a harder time with I'm not as read into it as you are, but I Find difficulty Imagining that that's been repeated in a scientifically provable space. You're a killer. Benic suspense Weird or you think we got done. I don't know about Yuri I don't know about Yuri or Dr. Poo. Yeah, what about Pooharic channeling these nine entities and Basically performing say ounce to communicate with the gods that control civilization Again, I know I I would say no on that one I'm not saying that the nine isn't real, but I think that the nine have a lot of other Experiences that people have claimed that contend with them and it's like maybe you clocked in with these nine But you know the Greeks were clocked in with 10
different gods. People have different gods for things. I don't know. Maybe they're all the same none though. Maybe. Maybe. And I don't know if the names are right. Yeah. I mean, do you follow? I don't know about nut. Yeah. Yeah. But what do you, where do you fall on it? I just don't know anything, dude. I'm trying to figure out the secret teachings of the universe. Every single time I come to this 10 to think I'm going to crack the case and I'm just so far off. I'm like, remote viewing. I think maybe someone did it where it was like pretty, pretty good. Yeah. I bet you someone. Maybe a couple people did it. Maybe Ingoswan. Maybe even Yuri Galera times. And they did something where they were like, we don't know how this is possible. And I think maybe a couple. It's rare. Yeah. As far as like hypnosis, I think there's some versions of hypnosis where people are truly outside of their brain and they're not really the lights are on a known time. As far as puaric channeling nine entities that are actually controlling the world and one of them is raw or something like that. Or like a tomb is like hanging with a council and they're guiding all civilization. I'm going to say probably not. Yeah. I believe that he believes it. Yeah. I don't think he's lying. I think that that's an experience. And I think the altered states of consciousness, whether you're achieving them through psychedelics or extreme meditation, which can get you there. Yeah. It will make you feel like you're communing with some real outside entity. But then I think people have this need to come back and be like, I figured it out. That's a good way to met the entity. I have met the God. And now that I have figured this out, we can take what I'm saying is fact and build truth surrounding it. I think that's where we get into trouble. Yeah. Like I do believe that they experienced that. But again, it could be the, it could be the, you know, creative depths of our own mind. It could be that you're communicating with something else, but there's no way to prove it. So, directionally, it feels true. But if we're going to take claims this extreme as fact, it's kind of tough. It's kind of tough. Because if we're really saying we know this for a fact, it would need to change how we're conducting all of our business. You just even, I think, put it better than I did. I think it's a great way to look at it. I view like some of it does like a trans-medium ship or like communicates with an entity. The same way as I look at someone telling me a crazy mushroom story. Yeah. Where I'm like, I don't doubt that you saw something. Yeah. And I don't doubt that it was transformative for you or maybe even gave you like inside as to like your own consciousness or maybe universe, the universe at large. But I'm just going to kind of take it as like an interesting story, file it away in the anecdote cabinet and be like, that's pretty interesting. Yeah. But I can't draw a conclusion. Yeah. I can't live my life around this. And if we knew these things were true, then you should. Yeah. Exactly right. You know, Joe, we're going to get people to find you. The good people can find me. Joey Avery on every social media. JoeyAvery.com is where my tour is at. I have a ton of tour dates through the end of the year. Very fun new hour. And there are no repeat jokes from my old hour, which you can watch for free on YouTube right now. Joey Avery live in San Francisco or my podcast, The Joey Show. I heard from someone that went to the show that this new hour is better than last hour. It is better than last year. Yeah. It's it's very fun. Yeah. I'm pumped on it. Well, I'm excited for you. I'm curious. What do you guys think? Drop a comment below. If you experienced some type of a crazy trip with psychedelics or maybe you did breathwork and experience some type of entity you're being, I want to know from you, dude. What's what's what's your what's your take? What did Puhari actually? What's the secret to the universe? Just tell me. Put it in the comments on YouTube or Spotify. I read all of them. Even if I don't get back to you, someone will and will be productive for the conversation. Just be nice about it. Okay. We have a nice little on-clave on the internet. We're not that many people know about us. And it's it's a nice community. So let's keep it safe. All right. Creasers, do you have a question? We also had a bunch of comments where they were like, I have this crazy story, but I don't want to say it here in the comments. You could send it to Christos at Camp Gagnon or a team at Camp Gagnon. Ooh, that would be fun to read those and be nice about them. If you even want to get deeper into the into the camp world, we have a secret society. It's the intercom unit. It is the sanctum where we all meet and gather. It is the campfire where we tell stories. And you're basically going to get every single episode of this show completely ad-free. So not only this, but religion, camp, history, camp, etc. You're also going to get monthly zooms with me and the rest of the mystery machine. And on top of that, you're going to get episodes that never even go out to the public that are just for the internal members of our secret society. And that's all for you at patreon.com/camp. You can find it all there. And it will cost you. Nothing is free. This is there's a sacrifice you'll have to make probably like a cup of coffee every single month. It's about five bucks and all that can be yours. And you can also see me on the road, Mark Gagnon live. I would love to see you guys there. It's going to be an awesome time. And one little thing that Joey kind of alluded to before, whatever, whoever's out so out there, this you guy, or girl, this listening, the whole team is going to be going to Joshua Tree in October at some point. And if you're interested in coming and hanging out with me and the rest of the camp squad, you can go to patreon. This is going to be just open to patrons only. It's a very small sort of inner group. You're going to have to, you know, make your own way there. But if you can figure it out, you're more than welcome to come join us. If you want to go to patreon.com, drop a comment, and we can get you some of the pertinent information as to when we'll be there and where. So just let me know. God bless you all. Joey, thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. Creestos. I'm wonderful to hear from you as always. You did kind of interrupt a little bit, but I appreciate you being here. Love you guys. God bless. And I'll see you next time. Peace. Hey guys, if you love conspiracies and hypothetical history, well, I want to invite you to check out signal 33. This is a companion pod to our podcast here at camp. It's made and edited by the same team that runs all of our shows. And I choose the topics every single week. So check it out, subscribe, and start the dialogue in the comment section.
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