The Ancient Aliens that CORRUPTED Humanity

What if the gods of the ancient world weren't simply myths? What if the Anunnaki, the Egyptian gods, the angels of the book of Inaki, and even the story of Jesus were all describing different pieces of the same mystery? For thousands of years, ancient traditions have told stories of beings descending from the heavens, humans ascending to meet them and secret knowledge capable of transforming us into something even greater. The William Henry believes that there may be another piece to the story, and that's psychedelics. Ancient Egyptians consume psychoactive substances. The book of Inaki describes forbidden knowledge being given to humanity, and the pyramids may not have been built for burial, but actually for some type of ascension. And William believes that Jesus himself demonstrates the final stage of this ancient process, physically transforming the human body. This episode is absolutely fascinating, and presents a worldview like I've never heard before that ties in the Anunnaki, the Nephilim, DMT, ancient Egypt, the pyramids, the Shroud of Turin, and of course, the resurrection of Jesus Christ himself. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. William Henry, how are you? Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining me. My pleasure. Thank you for having me. I really, really appreciate it, and I'm so excited to chat with you, because your work covers a few different kind of buckets that, to me, to someone on the outside, the uninitiated, so to speak, might seem disparate. It's like you're talking about Jesus Christ and sort of, you know, Christian theology over here, and then you're talking about, like, ancient Egyptian texts over here, and then Megaliths, and you're going to these ancient sites. And I think if you're not aware, you're like, huh, these kind of seem all over the place, but I can see the vision. I understand, and I share a similar passion with you, maybe not to the same extent, or same level of experience, in these kind of foundational truths, and how we sort of understand history, and how human beings kind of make stories for ourselves. Yeah, for sure. So I wanted to ask you, I've done a few episodes so far on the book of Venoch, on the Anunnaki. Oh, cool. And it's just blowing my mind. I'm so fascinated by it, because growing up, you hear about these Egyptian gods, you hear about Rai, you hear about Isis. And you're kind of told, like, yeah, these are myths. These are stories. These are things that human beings made up so that we can understand the world around us. Why is there war? Why is there a thunderstorm? It's because we've upset the gods, and it's the thing that human beings do. But is it possible that perhaps these gods are not purely mythological, that maybe it's pulling on something that is a real experience that happened, that happened, maybe physically, you know, consciously, in the, in the sort of psyche, and maybe, just maybe, I'm throwing this out there. Is it possible these stories are referencing some type of contact with another type of intelligence? People would say aliens, but that is just a placeholder. Right. What do you make of this question? How would you begin to answer this? Well, I mean, that's a really great place to start. I personally, answering it from my own perspective, cut my teeth on Zechariah Sitchens version of the Anunnaki, graduated into the Egyptian symbolism, and just kept going with it from the, through the lens of ancient astronaut theory, ancient astronaut theory says, flesh and blood extraterrestrials came from other worlds, messed with our DNA, where they're hybrid offspring. Right. And that kind of is where, oh, there's also hardware technology involved. Whereas from almost the very beginning, my perspective flipped it on its head. Whereas ancient astronaut theory says it's 99% technology, maybe 1% spirituality. I'm saying it's 99% a spiritual experience, 1% physicality, maybe technology. Interesting. Yeah. The Sitchens book is fascinating for anyone that doesn't know or hasn't seen the episode that we did. He wrote this book, 12th planet, if I'm not mistaken, came out in the 70s. 76. And it really blew open this whole sort of this story. And the story is so compelling because it is pulling on genuine, like, Sumerian clay tablets. That tell us a story about these beings that come down and they come from a different place. And they're trying to basically utilize humanity for some means. I mean, his, the 12th planet version talks about gold. Yeah. But there are a lot of crossovers that are genuinely drawing on a real history that is documented. You can go to the museums and see these clay tablets. Sure. Absolutely. I remember I first read Sitchan in 1991, became friends with him in 1996, five years later, traveled with him, knew him pretty well, in terms of people in our community that were on lecture circuits with him and that sort of thing. And but I always diverged from the very beginning when he said they came here for gold. I'm like, what? And then, because then in the next sentence, he said that Enke, who he said genetically altered humanity, was also an alchemist. And I'm like, so why does an alchemist need to come clear across the galaxy to create a slave race to mind gold? He's an alchemist. He's going to make some gold. Just go make some gold. Yeah. Go grab a hunk of space rock and transmute it. And I realized that with the alchemy clue that the main goal of the alchemist isn't to turn an impure medal from, from an impure state to pure state, led to gold, cold to diamond. It's all about souls. And so what if the gold that the Anunnaki were interested in was really the soul? And what if there was a genetic alteration? Not to create a slave race, we did serve the Anunnaki. We were never slaves to the Anunnaki. We served them, which means they were upgrading a certain class of humans to get near them. And so the idea is that if they're here for souls, then perhaps what if they altered human genetics to make our body a more conducive vehicle for the ascension of the soul? Or to make it a more conducive vehicle for the soul to inhabit this layer of creation? So I want to just kind of tape people through this before we break down your theory. Can you get us up to speed, broadly speaking, with what the Anunnaki are from a historical lens? Like what do you kind of the early Sumerian Mesopotamians? What are they saying about the Anunnaki? Right. The Sumerian texts are some of the oldest texts in the world, and they reference these beings called the Anunnaki, seemingly pointing to the heavens as a place of origin for them, certainly the sky, and talk about them as essentially our overlords and teachers there. There's a main character named Anunnaki, who is presented as a sort of a technology type figure, God of technology, here to advance humankind. And he creates a group of teachers called the Opkalu, which are these bird-headed fish or fish, fish cloak beings that are meant to be intercessors. The goal is to uplift humanity, to upgrade humanity. The Opkalu responsible for bringing art, science, everything we think of as civilization, to humanity, and everything goes great until there's a massive cataclysm, and the pre-flood civilization collapses. We go into a period of darkness for probably six, seven thousand years, and then they restart civilization in ancient Sumeria, around 3,000 BC, and the story now continues five thousand years later. And that is more or less the documented story that we can find in a Sumerian tablet. That's what you'll find. Yeah, the Atrahasa, for example, text like that, describe this interaction, they describe these gods, putting their image on a more of a primordial being, a lesser being, and then what results is humankind. And so when they say the Anunnaki put their image on humankind, people interpret that as either a spiritual image or a literal image like doing something with our DNA. Right. It's an interesting metaphor. Again, we're looking at an ancient text, so it's difficult to really ascertain exactly what's happening, but modern kind of ancient astronaut theorists have kind of said, well, this moment, putting their image into us, that is a consciousness shift. So that is perhaps when we go from some type of upright hominid into bang human beings. Exactly. And then that moment that our DNA is changed, we ascend, we get this almost god-like divine DNA put into us. We do. And what that seems to trigger is the activation of our neocortex. This takes place around 300,000 years ago when Homo sapien first enters the timeline. And then 40,000 years ago, due to the amplification of our neocortex, we start producing art, the oldest art. One of the oldest images is a sculpture. It's made out of ivory. It's a half human, half cat feline figure, like secmat, 40,000 years old, found in a forest in Germany. 40,000? 40,000. And this is what neuroscience says actually happened. There's an activation, if you will, not a neuroscience term, but a common term for what happened via this genetic alteration or supposed genetic alteration. Then there's a period of dormancy. And then suddenly 40,000 years ago is this explosion of art, science, so everything we think of as civilization starts to begin to emerge. And this is really important because it isolates and focuses their activity. If they're genetically altering us, what are they doing? Giving us an extra arm? No, we've been anatomically the same as every creature, hominid creature on this planet for a couple million years or more. But suddenly we have this enlarged or expanded capacity, neural capacity. Right. This encephalization is people call it. Our brains get bigger, our stomachs get smaller. And we become these homo sapiens. And this is so important because in my view, and we're speaking theoretically here, but look at what is happening today. We're starting to implant nanotechnology into our neocortex. We're literally putting a new layer on our neocortex. and amplifying our intelligence, wiring us up to the cloud, all of that. - The AI is now making us in their image. - Exactly, exactly. We're doing exactly what they did to us with robots and creating images or beings online. And at the same time, you have to ask, is it possible that when they awakened our Neo Cortex, they knew that 250, 300,000 years later, we would be developing AI. - Right. - Could you pull the picture of that sculpture, but what was the name of the sculpture? Do you have it off-hand? - You could just Google like a Leonine sculpture, ivory. - That's her, wow. - 40,000 years old, made from a tusk of what, an ancient elephant, a mammoth? - It's ivory. - It's ivory. - Wow. - And it's only about this big. And the idea is-- - Do you know where this was found? - In a forest in Germany, I don't know the exact name. Wow, off the top of my head. But you know what's fascinating about this, is that in Egyptian lore, Enke, the creator god, or technology god of ancient Samaria, is complemented by, if not interchangeable, with a god named Patah, who they say manifested out of the blue, and you look him up in budgets, hieroglyphic Egyptian hieroglyphic dictionary, it says he fashioned the human body, and he's even got what appears to be a double helix in his hieroglyph, and a square, and a semi-circle, symbolic of the compass in the square. The point I'm wanting to make is that Patah has a consort, his wife, his name is Sechmet, and she looks exactly like that. And when I put those two data points together, I'm thinking, the oldest work of human art, or one of the oldest, is a leonine sculpture that looks exactly like Patah's wife, and the Egyptian said, this is the god that fashioned the human body, he didn't create the body, he somehow augmented it, or fashioned it. I think that's a pretty remarkable coincidence, and he's made to wonder, where we like somehow, encoded to create this art, and are we paying homage to Patah by doing this? - Wow, yeah, it's kind of- - So it's Vincs like, it's sort of- - Yeah, that's a Sechmet, their examples of standing Sechmet, where she looks strikingly like this leonine figure found in a forest in Germany, 40,000 years ago. - Wow, and the Sumerian stuff is so interesting, just for timeline sake, you can see another image here. - Yeah, there you go. - There's a feline face. Hey, real quick, most people who watch this channel aren't subscribed, and when you subscribe, you help the channel grow, and you stay in the loop with every new drop, religion camp, history camp, and camp gagnon. Well, let's get back to it. - The timeline here, I think, is important, because these Mesopotamian, or these Sumerian cuneiform tablets, are some of the earliest forms of writing that we have, so ostensibly they are some of the earliest creation stories, or whatever you wanna call them, and then you see these kind of offshoots that go into all these other cultures. - Right. - So the Egyptians have their version of Enki in Pata. You have the Atrahasus story that has very close similarities to Noah and Noah's Ark. And sort of this boat that survives a catastrophe, and it's the gods warn them, and there's a burnt offering once they land, and there's birds that go off to fine land. Like it's very similar. - Right. - And I think it's important to point out the timeline here, because people will look at this and for many, many years, people kinda said, okay, this Ennunaki story, this creation story of humankind of these beings come down, create humankind as we know it with this sort of DNA infusion, so to speak. - Right. - Kind of existed as a myth where people were like, oh yeah, this is what the old people used to say. - Sure. - And then we're faced with a question, is it a myth, or are they drawing on a real remembered history? And this is where Sichen comes in, that he writes this book saying, hey, all these myths that we're reading, these stories of Atrahasas, Noah, Anki, Patah, these are not necessarily mythology or stories, these are real things that perhaps happened with these actual beings that actually traveled interstellarly to come here. And Sichen adds a few things like they came here to and slave us to minus for, so we could mind gold, because their planet Nibiru was falling apart. - Right. - That kind of a thing. And it kind of becomes this weird historical sci-fi thing, and it's hard to really hang your hat on Sichen's work. It's fascinating and really fun, but it's hard to say like, okay, his theory is 100% on it. So that's kind of the divergence here, where we're kind of given two options. Like, okay, this is just a myth, it's made up, it's fun, it's what they thought, or it really happened. There's really aliens coming down to the ancient Sumerians that are changing the DNA to create humankind, and those are like our real overlords. The real gods are the same. - Right, right. - How would your theory fit into this? - Well, you're kind of describing the gauntlet here, because on the one hand, Sichen is completely wrong. But on the other hand, he's being validated, right? The whole gold mining idea, the use of gold for technological purposes is now well known. So his theory, at first, you're like, ah, that's not happening, but then it becomes more and more plausible, let's put it that way. But on the second hand, is it's entirely reliant on physical technology. Even though the first creation of Enki was named Adoppa, that they think of that as the name where the name Adam came from. He's the prototype human, the first human. And one of the first things that Enki does in these stories is he takes Adoppa to heaven, to the throne of Anu, the lord of the Anunnaki. And this is where humanity is denied immortality, because he's warned that Anu is going to offer him the bread of life and the garment of light, and these things were to deny it. And this is the Sumerian explanation for why we're mortal beings. But what that points out to us is I think the reason why there was this genetic alteration, it was to create a vehicle that was capable of bodily ascending into the heavens. And this is the timeline that I start to follow, weaving through from the Sumerians, through the Egyptian tradition, through the Jewish Merkaba tradition, through the Christian tradition of resurrection, they're all saying the same thing. Our body is the vehicle. There's no spaceship out here. And Elon Musk, I hope you're listening. You need to hear this. We're not going any further than Mars, perhaps, in a 10-can spaceship. Jeff Bezos, your penis looks great sitting on the rock ship. It's not taken us anywhere, brother. This is the vehicle right here. We need to turn inward. We need to focus on what the ancients were saying about what this body's capable of doing and learning how to activate it. - So expand on that. Make that a bit more accessible for the audience. How do we interpret this Sumerian story in this perspective? - From this perspective, let's look at the slave race theory, okay, which is really common. And I've subscribed to that for a good while until almost like around 2006, there was a really big kind of dust up in our community around that question with actual academics that studied kuneiform tablets and could read kuneiforms. Zacharias Hitchin really couldn't as much as he tried. He really couldn't. But these stories affirmed that we weren't created as slaves, we were created as servants. That's a big difference because if you're serving the God, the theory is the ideas. And this comes primarily from the Babylonian doctrine of sin and the idea that we're capable of overcoming our less than pure status and becoming pure or perfect beings like the Anonaki. So the idea is that if I'm a proto-human, I'm a Dapa, and I'm sitting before a being that's how many millennia, maybe millions of years in advance of me, there's something that's gonna have to shift. He's either gonna have to downshift or I'm gonna have to upgrade to be in that being's presence. And this is the idea of what happened with the Anonaki is they start training humans to become like the Anonaki. They called them the mighty ones, the mighty men, the mighty men of renown. And one of the key missing pieces in all of these stories that your discussion's about the Anonaki is what were they wearing? What did the Anonaki wear? And usually the answer is, who cares, right? I don't know, who cares? But the answer is very specific and it's well known. They possessed a garment called the Malamu. They gave them luminosity, radiance, superpowers, it's compared to humans, invisibility, perhaps even longevity. - And that's in the Cuneiform tablets. - That is in the Cuneiform tablets. And there's maybe three academics plus me that study that concept. And I'm trying to really bring it out to our community say this is a really vital piece of the Anonaki story that doesn't get discussed. Because the Malamu is described as a physical garment, but it's also described almost like a teaching as well. And that garment and that teaching were transferable to humans. And a human could acquire that garment of the Anonaki from the Anonaki, put it on and become not Anonaki, but become a mighty man, a mighty one. Like think of Superman's cape sort of a thing. And that symbol then gets passed along from the Samaritan tradition, here it is right here. Yeah, these are God beings that are standing beside the tree of life. And the key thing here that is often overlooked is they're standing before the radiant tree of life. You got the winged disk up above Shamash. We can talk about that separately. But when you look at their garments, they're wearing feathers. And they're wearing feathers not to indicate that they're bird-like, but the feathers represent luminosity, radiance, frequency coming off their bodies. Could you point to the feathers here? Yeah, sure. If you look below the elbow on the figure on the left, those are all feathers. I see. I was just in the Brooklyn Museum today. I've got detailed photos of these that show them wearing this Malamu garment, the garment of the Anonaki. And the ideal was that humans could be trained, upgraded, to raise themselves to the level of the Anonaki and acquire their powers. That's nice. not a slave relationship. That is a relationship where you've got a higher being saying, bro, let's upgrade you here. We're going to give this to you. iOS update. Boom. Exactly. Exactly. And so that's a really important part of the story. And to me, it's far more empowering than this idea. Oh, we're slaves. And you know, the man's always trying to kick us down and all that kind of thing. Right. That is an interpretation. This is the Malamu idea is also an interpretation. It's solid fact that the Yananaki possessed this garment. But the ultimate implications, if that's the reason why they came here was to upgrade humanity in this manner or not. But this has everything again to do with what's happening today. Because presently, we are creating through our technology a new layer of skin for humanity that mocks in a way or really actually mimics exactly what the Malamuk did for early humans with the Yananaki. Right. I mean, even just thinking about the smartphone in my pocket right now, it is an additional organ. Yes. Right. It possesses all the phone numbers of people I love. It possesses all the memories and pictures. It exists as a way to communicate. It's almost like an additional vestige that I can use to interface with the world. That's the word interface. Exactly. It's like that. In the Samarian text, those would have been called a may, a may tablet. These are may means divine power. That's the root of the word may Lamu. And there were seven of them that they typically spoke of that the Yananaki possessed that they wished for humans to also possess. This is in the Descent of Anana, the oldest human story about this Ananaki princess priestess, daughter of Anki. She descends into the underworld. And if she's going, she acquires her seven May, this helmet that Sichen, it's called the Shagura helmet. Sichen said it means that which makes go far into the universe. And in 1991, when I'm 33 years old reading this, going, what kind of helmet can you put on the Mays go far into the universe? Is this like some kind of VR helmet or something? She wears her rainbow beads. She's got her water filled her vase of living waters, her grail cup. And she's got a garment on called the polygarmate or miracle garment. It's the Malamu. And she acquires these in her journey. And then she lets them go. And the idea of this story is that this is kind of the archetypal human quest. We are to go and acquire the seven May powers of the Ananaki and become like them. So I don't want to misinterpret your point. In this theory, are you suggesting that the Ananaki were a literal non-human intelligence that came to us that then gave us this divine knowledge? Up until maybe three, four years ago, I would have said, yes, I believe that they were probably somehow embodied. There's a very interesting kind of strange avenue you can go down in terms of art and statuary where the Samarians began this. They said, if you create a statue of Anki, we can do a magical incarnation on it. And that is Anki. And Anki will speak to you through the statue. The Egyptians adopted this as what they call the opening of the mouth ceremony, believing they can animate these statues. And that the statue could then speak. So the idea is that Anki is somewhere else, wherever in the universe, but somehow he can be coerced or implanted within a granite statue. And it could then speak for him. And alternative, which is what I actually would subscribe to now is that there were just really good psychedelic drugs involved. And that's how they were connecting with the Ananaki. It's all in that consciousness. Once again, that raises a question. Is the psychedelic experience that they're having a delusion? Maybe that's a pejorative, some type of figment of their subconscious that they're interfacing with, or is there some type of non-local experience where they're actually tapping into a consciousness outside of them? You see, this is the whole question right here. And it goes back to the activation of the neocortex again, because neuroscience can't agree on how that happened. Carl Sagan was sure it was from cosmic rays originating in sickness. You have the theory that it was no from cooking meat, eating more protein, the brain blooms or blossoms. Others say, no, it was actually group sex. Others say, no, psychedelic mushrooms is what it is. They literally argue about this. And coming from H and astronaut theory, I'm thinking, well, what about aliens? Or what if aliens came down, cooked a steak with us? We had group sex and munch on some mushrooms and looked at sickness afterward. It'll be a great Tuesday. It'll be a great Tuesday, right? But the point is, is that this happened and the psychedelic equation is seriously considered as one of the triggers for the awakening of our consciousness, which then suggests that we're either tapping into some universal field or there's some kind of program that's within our DNA that's awakened by the key of the mushrooms. This would be stone ape theory. This is the stone ape theory. That's exactly. I think Terence McKenna kind of popular. Precisely. Absolutely. It's invaluable. A lot of people would look down on that, they're thinking, come on, psychedelics or one of the other thing I really like to talk about, ascension. My colleagues are like, William, how's your ascension going? They're stones and bones, guys. How big is that rock? How did they move that rock? It's like, okay, that's good to know. But I want to follow the Anunnaki. The whole message of all of these traditions with these gods is we can become like them, we can even exceed them. So the question is, well, how do we do that? This is really a question of consciousness. Could you pull up a picture of just the evolution chart, just to get people up to speed with the stone ape theory? Because I do think it's important for this conversation, because it's kind of what these Sumerian stories are kind of telling us, right? That you have this chart where you see kind of the levels of progression of these kind of bipedal hominids getting to Homo sapiens. And what anthropologists, it seems like, again, I'm not anthropologist, so I don't know. But my understanding is that there's not really a consensus how we go from the guy that's kind of hunched over to the guy that's fully upright, not on a physical basis, but how do we go from the Homo Neanderthalus into the Homo sapiens? What is the actual shift? We're obviously smarter than them. Not to say that they were completely incapable Homo sapiens, or Neanderthalus, which I've heard people say Neanderthal, that's the anthropologist I talked you said. I know Neanderthalus is the word people use. I'll say that one, because I'm trying to be smart. But they'll say, but the Neanderthalus, they were able to do art. They were making stuff. They had bows and arrows. They were able to make some like small kind of, like, crafts, like ships and sail around stuff. Homo Florianzus was another hominid that was able to get to like Australia, I think. Sure. They were able to do things. Right. But Homo sapiens possess an intangible human quality. It seems like. And the question is, how and why? So the one that the anthropologist I've talked to is kind of that meat theory, right? This kind of flywheel, where you start cooking meat. It's easier to digest. You get more nutrients. You're able to process the nutrients faster. Your brains get bigger, stomachs get smaller, more energy conservation, and then we become Homo sapiens. The other one is stoned. Ape theory from Terence McKenna to say, Neanderthals are some other type of bipedal hominid picks up a mushroom ayahuasca, some other type of psychedelic drug. Right. And they have this transcendent experience where all of a sudden the prefrontal cortex opens up and they become human beings, which people would then tie in with the garden of Eden, perhaps this, this forbidden fruit, this, this type of elixir that makes you like the gods. Right. And really the story of the, you know, Sumerian text is trying to answer that same question. Oh, they came down and they imbued divine light into us. Exactly. And I mean, the group's text won't have it hurt. I know that one is a fascinating one that I'll have to dive into on another time. But it's a, I think that is really the question to contend with here. So I guess for your theory, if we were to, I guess four or five years ago, if I were to ask you if I held up a video camera in front of like these Sumerian priests. Right. And they were talking to Enki. You might have said like, oh, you would see the mouth of the statue moving. You would have seen a being land and talked to them. I, yeah, I would have seen in my, through my lens, Enki stepping through a gateway literally on a video camera. We would go back five thousand years. Yeah, I, because all of the depictions of the Anonaki arriving, they're not in rocket ships. They're stepping through portals or gateways. And next to those portals or gateways are temples of transformation from Hume for humans that will help them, I think, go through that gateway. Epic of Gilgamesh, second oldest story, classic example of that. And he is preparing this figure, Gilgamesh, who's two thirds divine and one third human to join the Anonaki. Gilgamesh acquires the Malamu. He, he, he steals it after killing Humbaba. He grabs his Malamu and gets his power at that moment. And he has to get it while it's still kind of warm, so to speak, while he's still living. So it's telling us, at least it's telling me that this progression is quite intentional. And it's leading exactly to this moment that we're living in right now, where we are preparing to merge or blend our consciousness with a non-human intelligence of some kind, be it artificial intelligence, super intelligence, or alien intelligence. Right. So now, if we sit here and I hold up a video camera to these Sumerian priests talking to Anki, you think that it would be fully a sub like a consciousness psychedelic kind of experience. I do. And that is just from my own personal interpretation now, but also my personal experience with psychedelics. I had been aware of them and their, their role in history for 20 years before ever practicing with them or experimenting with them. And now I see how that could possibly. That's what they were talking about this whole time. And, you know, I've been to Egypt 34 times and the first 30 times I went to Egypt. I didn't really know what I was looking at on those temple walls because they're completely filled with interactions of a human saying to a god, "Oh, thank you." ISIS. Here's my cup. I'm giving this to you. Or you've got a God that's offering a cup to a human. And it took me 30 times going to Egypt to ask, what is that cup and what's in that cup? And now we have the documented evidence that those cups are called new jars spelled in new. And they contain something referring to liquid light. And now we even know we have through archaeochemistry, thanks to Brian Murewescu bringing this to our awareness in his book, The Immortality Key, of what was in those cups, a psychoactive wine. And it's like, okay, I get it. I finally got it. That this is a give-and-take relationship. The gods are offering something to humans through this jar. Humans are giving something back. I understand it now. There's some sort of a psychedelic potion in those jars. And furthermore, would I start it to notice when I was awakened to the experience of psychedelics and getting involved with psychedelic communities, is it so many people that I know that have had psychedelic experiences don't have the background that I have or you have, let's say, in reading about the Onanaki or the Egyptian gods. And I remember one time I was with a friend in Jewish Pello for whatever that matter. So he comes out and he says, yeah, I went into this laboratory. And there was this Egyptian-looking God with this long bird beak for a nose. And I'm going to get my statue of thoth. And I said, did he happen to look like this? He said, yeah, that's exactly who I saw. And if I've heard that story once, I've heard it 20, 30 different times from individuals all over the world that they contact the Egyptian gods, especially in the psychedelic space, almost as if the Egyptian gods are practically like the chamber of commerce of the psychedelic realm. They're like, welcome. We're glad you're here. How may we help you? Kind of a thing. And it also applies with the Onanaki as well, because there are numerous references to humans drinking something or eating a particular food and then having an experience with the Onanaki. And that starts to make a lot more sense to me than beings come and clear across the galaxy to mine gold. To repair their decaying atmosphere, it sounds makes more sense to me that perhaps there was a plant, maybe a mushroom or other fungus that somehow is evolved or involved. And it opens up a channel for us to communicate with these beings. You mentioned the psychoactive wine that we've discovered in Egypt. I say, we're on the mission. Yeah, we, it's us. Yeah, you things. Yeah. But is there a historical record for psychedelics being used in ancient Sumeria? Yes, there is. Yeah, they definitely mentioned this. And this is a lot of the new work that's being done in and around the Onanaki, especially the plant of life, the plant of immortality, the tree of life itself. With these opkalu figures, the agents of Enki are harvesting from the tree of life. We're going along and now we're pretty, pretty certain it had some sort of a psychedelic basis. And how we found any remnants is kind of archaeochemistry? Not in Sumeria, yeah. I suspect there are people that are starting to look at some of those artifacts. We don't have as an abundance of them like we do in Egypt or a tradition, especially around the psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, but it's, it's coming along. Right. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you something. I had one of those days recently where I woke up super tired. I drank coffee and then I drank more coffee because I was tired. I trained badly because I had too much coffee. And then I couldn't sleep because I had too much coffee. And the frustrating part is I'm doing all the things I'm lifting, I'm eating protein, I'm taking creatine, I'm trying to sleep. I'm occasionally fasting because someone on YouTube told me it was good. But sometimes I'm still walking around feeling like I'm only charged to like 60%. 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And the way that this would work in Egypt, for example, which again, the timeline of this, I'm not exactly positive, but like ancient Sumeria is roughly what dates in comparison to like the old kingdom Egypt. Well, they start pretty much concurrently around 33,000 BC, 3100 BC. I mean, that's the first dynasty in Egypt that's the you start to get the activity in Iraq and around Gilgamesh and in these stories. So that's a good baseline. Okay. And they're able to look at these jars, these pots and they're able to scrape the residue at the bottom of them and actually in like sort of investigate what these, what they were drinking. What's in it? And we found actual psychedelic substances. Exactly. Especially at Abados. There was a researcher at Penn named McCover and who started this work. And because there were these stories, these unusual stories about a pharaoh, scorpion one, Abados, 3000 BC, that time window. He's buried at Abados and he's got hundreds of jars, wine jars that are with them. And they think that's really kind of strange. Why is he got all this wine buried in his tomb at Abados? They look into it and find out not only is the wine psychoactive, but it also came from the land of Canaan. It was imported into Egypt from what is today present a Israel or the Gaza area. Wow. Yeah. So I guess I'm curious. Like it's fascinating to think that these people are ingesting the psychoactive substance. Do we know what it would be? Like do we know which substance it is based off looking at the sort of the horticulture of the region? With the Syrian Roo, Akhasia, cannabis, blue lotus, these are the ones that are typically mentioned. And that's a really good place to start. Mentioned of what capacity? Mentioned in the text, mentioned by researchers. Mentioned by researchers. As well as in the biblical texts. I mean, when you see Moses's anointing royal, the recipe for it, Akhasia is included in there. So it's cinnamon and perhaps cannabis as well. I mean, there's a lot of research that's being done in this area. Linguistically, it says it was in fact cannabis that was the primary herb used in Moses's anointing royal. Interesting. Now Akhasia, which again, I've always said Akhasia, but I like the way you say it. Akhasia, like your pronunciation better. People say that if basically this is a wood that's tree or tree that when it's burned, it releases a DMT. Exactly. Exactly. And in some way, you're able to burn this and then get the ash and mix it into this elixir, and potentially experience DMT. Yeah. Is it able to be done to your knowledge? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's quite high off Akhasia. You can. I haven't personally, but it's similar to experience like smoking changa or other herbs like that that are loaded with DMT. Really good example of this is the story of Isaiah, where he is suddenly perceives this angel, a seraphim angel, and the angel's got a coal, and the angel takes this coal and puts it up to Isaiah's nose. And all of a sudden, now Isaiah can see beyond the veil of ordinary perception, and he can see the throne of God, and he can see God sitting on the Ark of the Covenant. Now, the connection here is that it's thought that that coal could be Akhasia or Akhasia, that in fact, what's happened here is Isaiah's consciousness is being expanded by the psychedelic, and now he's able to pierce the veil, and perceive the throne of God and the Ark of the Covenant. It's curious that these stories are not explicitly mentioning that, right? Like, I guess I'm curious if they'll. It's often in the artwork, though, too, is the thing. So the story might not directly say, oh, you know, we just dozed Isaiah as a DMT so he can pierce the veil, right? That's kind of what is inferred. And this is a really important point, because there's been this resistance to the use of these substances going back 2600 BC, or excuse me, 2600 years, 600 BC. Approximately, it seems as if at least by my estimation that understanding of this is well known. And then all of a sudden, things shift around 600 BC. This is when the Jews are taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar. They're brought to Babylon. They're looking around at all these pyramids. People are maybe dosing themselves or connecting with the Anunnaki. They've got this advanced astronomical knowledge. Some of those wise priests were, like, very interested in into what was happening in Babylon. And that's why they stayed after the Babylonian captivity. The rest of the Jews go back to Babylon or back to Jerusalem. And now they start writing books like the Book of Enoch, and they start saying, hey, you can't do this. You can't do this. You can't use cosmetics, you can't you can't practice astrology, you can't practice astronomy and pharmacopio those use of psychedelics. Oh, that's evil. And this is what happened. And so this is when the watchers who were formerly called the opkalu teachers of the Anonaki are suddenly demonized by these Jewish priests and they become the fallen angels. And with it is this legacy that says, yeah, drugs are bad. Drugs are bad. And what the high priest just did at that moment was actually sever our connection with the divine realm and then isolated or focused it within their own power. And some of those mystics used knew about this and they were pissed. They carried that grudge against what they thought of as imposter gods all the way up into and including the time of Jesus. This is the foundation of the Essenes. They're carrying this grudge. They they had a well-established ascension-based practice that included use of these substances. They worship the divine feminine. And then after Nebuchadnezzar takes the Jews captive and babble on everything changes. God gets a divorce. The divine feminins kicked out of the temple. The use of drugs. He Josiah is the name of the king that did most of this. He even forbade looking into the heavens. God forbid you'd connect with the heavenly hosts. So there was suddenly a changing of the gods and a clamping down on human consciousness. And the very agents, the opkallu that were trying to uplift us were suddenly denigrated. And these Jewish priests saying, "You're the reason that flood happened." In your evil, you're fallen. Fascinating. That is a really interesting interpretation of that. I've never heard that before. And I just want to bring everyone along, because I know what you're saying, but just in case anyone doesn't. The books of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Enoch are a fascinating, once again, kind of creation story problem of evil kind of telling that are written by basically kind of in this like 2nd templeish period. Exactly. Where they're basically trying to understand what's happening. There's something that was like broadly read. It seems like it was written in a language. I think it was written in Aramaic, if I was mistaken. It was largely an Aramaic. Yes. Which is this language of the people. This is the language that like the guy on the corner would know. And so this was generally meant to be read by a large population. And the story basically talks about these group of angels, these watchers that come down. And they land in Mount Hermann, which is still in Israel to this day. And they meet up there and they make a pact. And they say, "Hey, our job here is to go down and basically watch humanity. God has asked us to do this." Correct me if I'm wrong. This is just my understanding. And then one of the angels, think it was Azazel. Basically says, "You know what? I like these human women. There's something about these human women. They got some baddies down here on earth. And I think we got to go to see what that's about." So they basically make a pact like, "Hey, I'm not going down for this. We're all going down for this. If God finds out, so we're going to go down and take these human women as brides, as mates, so to speak." And they come together. They have children. These children are the Nephilim. And they also teach humanity things. They teach humanity about metallurgy. They teach humanity about cosmetics, which is kind of an interesting feature there. They're very important one, too. They talk about pharmacopia, this idea of which people kind of attribute to either witchcraft or psychedelics or kind of a mix of both. And they talk about war and metal and like, how to make war, how to make weapons, all this kind of stuff. And then God finds out about it. He I think binds them in a desert or sends them to an abyss or something to that effect. And then God sends a flood to basically wipe out the Nephilim who have grown so large. They're these monstrous beings that are devouring everything. And God says, we need to get rid of them. The Nephilim die. And then I think in kind of the Christian interpretation, maybe Judaism as well, the spirits of the Nephilim go on to become demons. And it kind of becomes the kind of the preemptive story to explain why demons don't exist in heaven or hell, why they kind of inhabit this kingdom because they're bodily form as the Nephilim are now gone. But the spirit of the Nephilim still exists, and they are insatiably hungry looking to devour and create chaos. And it's this story for like, why does evil exist? Why are there bad things? It's because of this group of angels. And it has interesting similarities to the endonaki story. You can draw some comparisons there. But this story as it exists, people are reading this and they're trying to understand it. What can you say about Enoch as it interfaces with this story in this time period? Well, this is fascinating because Enoch, these are largely, this is the basis for the whole Asin revolution. The scenes are considered to be the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls, including the books of Enoch. Jesus, Mary Magdalene, the mother Mary, all emerged from that Asin revolution or out of that tribe. Within that tribe, Enoch was a really big deal. They plucked him out of the book of Genesis where there's a one liner. It simply says Enoch walked with God. And by that, scholars, academics almost unanimously agree that what that means is that Enoch ascended. Enoch is a prototype human existing before the time of the flood. All it says is Enoch was righteous, just like Noah was righteous in his time as well. And Noah also walked with God. This phrase walked with God literally means they walked off this planet and went and ascended and live in another realm. Oh, I thought it was Enoch and Elijah or the two that are described to have kind of ascended bodily. Is Noah as well? Noah too. Book of Genesis. Noah was perfect in his generation. Noah walked with God. And that word perfect is so important because it's like a golden needle that threads through all these traditions. Traditions, the word perfect means to be whole, to be holy, to be complete, to be like an angel, an angel, human hybrid. This is the perfection that Jesus spoke of throughout the New Testament and also in the Dead Sea Scrolls. It's the Essenes favorite work. They're all about becoming perfect like humans. We are the awakened humans, perfect like humans. These are the terms that they use for the next generation human that they were trying to become. And Enoch was their prototype. He's their hero. So they pluck him out of the Old Testament, the Book of Genesis. And they start writing these stories about him. One that really captivates my imagination is where the Archangel Michael comes and gets Enoch, takes him up to a next higher level, anoints him with an oil so that his body dissolves into glorious light so that now Enoch is equal to the angels. What are we talking about here? We're talking about human transformation into a celestial being. We're talking about these angels coming down and taking humans and showing them how they can journey into the stars or into other dimensions. Through anointment. Through anointment. Through anointment. Yeah, exactly. And it opens up all of this whole research into all these anointing oils that are used throughout the ancient world, up to and including the one's Mary Magdalene used on Jesus, who became the second Enoch. So we have this axis that is saying, okay, Enoch's a prototype human. And we can ascend to the level of the gods. We can become like them. We can become Nephilim. In fact, and this is where it gets really twisted because the Nephilim are presented as these negative characters, right? But as I look at the book of Enoch, I'm thinking this is like a morality tale by some Jewish priest that's got some extra grind because all of the pathways that will lead us into our ascension, they're saying those are forbidden. You're not allowed to do that. It's like they put a barking dog in front of the repository of all this knowledge and makes it sound like you don't want to actually follow the story of the Nephilim. And here's why it's important. It ties back into what we were talking about earlier. Nephilim is widely interpreted to mean the giants and the ideas that they're called. They're very tall. They're very big. That's just one interpretation because the original meaning of it or another variation of that is that they weren't called the giants. They were called the mighty ones. The mighty ones. Well, wait a minute. The Anunnaki told us how we can become a mighty one. We just got to put on, we got to fine and put on this Malamu garment that the Anunnaki were wearing around. And we can become mighty ones. That's very different than becoming a giant. I, you know, I can follow all this tradition and these stories might find the secrets. I'll never be taller than five foot eleven, not in this lifetime, right? But if I follow this and I get that cloak, I can become an Anunnaki. I can become a mighty one. So it's very important that you decide which horse are you going to ride in this journey. Is Enaka morality tale about these fallen angels? Or is it written from the perspective of a priest who's got some axe to grind? And suddenly, we're accepting it that this is literal fact about what happened in the ancient world. There's no question that there was a flood, but were the napalem, the cause of this flood? You know, that's what this priest is saying. Interesting. So correct me if I'm, if I'm not following the thread perfectly, the Anunnaki story, as it's found in the Sumerian, is it seems like kind of an optimistic story about creation and how human beings got consciousness and how we can expand and elevate our consciousness over time using these devices, these garments. Sure. And I want to ask you about the garments in a second. But we kind of go through this period. We go into Egypt and the Egyptians are practicing this type of spiritual technology. They're consuming psychedelics, certainly doing some type of meditations, some kind of ritual work that is transforming their, their consciousness. Yes. And the Jews are living in Jerusalem in the first temple period. Nebuchadnezzar comes in, destroys the first temple, sends the Jews into Babylonian exile. Take the Ark of the Covenant. Yes, sends the Jews into exile. And which I also want to ask about the Ark of the Covenant. The Jews then go into exile in Babylon. They see all of this. And they see what these Egyptian priests are doing. doing in these psychedelic ceremonies and they're watching what's happening. And there's a split where some of the Egyptian, or the Jewish priests are like, this is pretty cool. It seems like their technology is like kind of kick an ass. - Right. - And our technology, I don't know. - Yeah. - And there's a divergence. - Exactly. - So some stay in Babylon. - Yes. - The others go back. And they, I think under Cyrus. - Under no derrius, under derrius. - Right. - Cyrus's father. - And rebuilds the Second Temple in Jerusalem. - Exactly. - So the CNJU's basically write a cautionary tale about the basically succumbing to these types of practices that the Babylonian Egyptians are doing. And that is the book of Enoch. So the Enoch story is not like, hey, look how amazing psychedelics can be, or look how amazing this transcendence can be. It is, don't do what the Egyptians are doing. Don't go with where they're going. - Exactly. - My question on that is, we then go into like second and third Enoch, where Enoch is exploring the cosmos. And he's, you know, seeing the solar calendar, which goes against the calendar that the Jews were using at the time. He experiences and receives all this knowledge through the Archangel Michael, which you're implying perhaps that that is as well a psychedelic experience. So how do we square that? If the book is a cautionary tale against psychedelics, but then also is employing psychedelics, how does that make sense? - It seems to me it's like in an evolution. There's book one, book two, book three. So it's, these are not all taken as the gospel, if you will. They're among the texts that are in the Dead Sea scroll. So these are just points of view. And what most authors don't do is explore all the points of view. They go for the one that lets you take a hatchet out and start chopping wood on the Nephilim, because that's kind of a really popular idea. Because once you get off into the other texts, as you're pointing out here, it starts to get a little confusing. Who do I believe here? What is really going on here? And what I'm trying to provide is sort of the backstory of where those texts emerge from. And what was sort of in the mindset of some of those priests, or even those that were opposed to those priests as well, because there was opposition. There were those wise Jews that wanted, or remembered their original old-time religion, and they didn't want this new version of the story. When this temple is rebuilt, the Ark of the Covenant is missing, and so are its components, and they knew that. And so they're watching these pre-start to install a new version of the story. It's a total inversion, a changing of the gods, whereas before they're worshiping the divine feminine, now it's an all-powerful, almighty patriarchal god, who's talking about the Ten Commandments, the Jews at the time are like, who's this Moses guy? Where did you get this story from? And where do the Ten Commandments come from? The Book of Deuteronomy, when it showed up, it was just kind of an out-of-the-blue kind of a thing, and this is why these Jews are going, where are you coming from? Where's this, where are these, where are you getting these stories? - You're saying they would have been surprised by the story of Moses? - Yeah, when Josiah, this is just before the Ark disappears. King Josiah is a boy king. They're refurbishing the Temple of Solomon. It had been in operation for almost 900 years. And suddenly, these priests that are his caretakers, if you will, show up with a book called The Book of Deuteronomy. And within it, they point to, here's the new law right here, the Ten Commandments are in this book, and here's our law giver, Moses. And for many of the Jews at that time, they're like, where are you getting this? We've never heard of this guy before. And it was a very convenient way for these priests now to take control and to install the Ten Commandments as the new law of the land. And there was great resistance to that. And this is what I'm speaking to is that in folder within this resistance was the original religions of the Jews, which was based on personal ascension, connecting with the hosts of heaven, even the utilization of some of these pharmacopias we're talking about here. And then after Josiah, it's a completely different story. - Would pre-Babylonian exiled Jews have known the story of Moses? - Probably not. No, he's introduced in the Book of Deuteronomy. And this is problematic even today, because as Sigmund Freud first started pointing out early 20th century, when he's looking at the story of Moses, he's like, well, wait a minute. Everything that Moses is said to have done, Echinotin did that at the same time. But the difference between Moses and Echinotin is that we have all this historical evidence that Echinotin existed. There's not one scrap of evidence anywhere, period, that says Moses ever existed. And this line of thinking is saying, well, yeah, that's because he's a fictional character. He was invented for the Book of Deuteronomy to implement a changing of the gods, introduce the patriarchy to the Jewish tradition. And it's not to say that he never existed. He might have in some form, probably within the court of Echinotin, but there is no evidence that Moses ever had in existence, period. - What about Noah, with the same thing? They would take stuff-- - Same thing. They would have to face other stories. - Other day loose stories, and they would. - Exactly. - And so what did the first temple Jews, what did they believe, like what was their book that they were going to? - Their book was, first of all, their practice was more divine, feminine, oriented. God had a wife, her name was Isis in Hathor. This is William Devers in Malfeal Patai at Harvard. They first started to root this out in the late 60s and it caused a sensation. It's like, what do you mean God had a wife? They'll test my God. Yahweh doesn't have a wife. He did, and they present the evidence that this was part of what the original Jewish tradition was about, the worship of the divine feminine, the co-existent male and female God, practicing personal ascension. And then, as I'm saying here with Josiah, everything shifts and changes. - And so first temple Jews are existing in this kind of world where it's much more, I guess it's different than what I would assume. They go into Babylonian exile. They had exposed to all of these kind of Babylonian ideas around divinity. - Around divinity? The astronomical temples, the Yezeghila devoted to Marduk and the whole Babylonian acceptance of a heavenly hierarchy and other beings and connection with those beings. They were very comfortable and very familiar with it. - And then when they go back to the second temple, they, Josiah basically gets this download. If someone puts together this thing known as the Torah, as the book of Deuteronomy. - Right, or specifically Deuteronomy. - Specifically Deuteronomy. That's where the story of Moses is introduced. - I see. - And it's unknown to them at that time and they're sitting there going, what are you talking about? Who is this guy? And where's the rest of the Ark of the Covenant, by the way? Because they're told from henceforth that the Ark of the Covenant is a golden box that contains the tablets of the law, the tablets of Moses. Well, before that, they knew of the Ark of the Covenant as a complete device that was actually originated in Egypt and was operated by the divine feminine. And there were additional components to that Ark of the Covenant. These are documented in the Jewish, what's called the Mishnah, which is their oral tradition. They're like, they tell us the Ark of the Covenant was more than just a box with two tablets. It also had the rod of Aaron. - In mana. - This mana, the star food, the crews of anointing oil, which might be the very same oil that Michael anointed Enoch with. And also two tablets as well. And so that's a very different Ark of the Covenant than what history says happens after the Babylonian exile. Oh, it's just a golden box with two tablets in it. That's kind of like saying, I've got an iMac at home. It's like saying, here's the screen, that's my iMac. But I know, well, where's the keyboard? Where's the mouse? Where's the power cord? Where's the software? Oh, you don't need to know anything about any of that. Here's your iMac right here. And that people are then hypnotized that the Ark of the Covenant is one thing. But again, the original Jewish tradition knows it's actually this over here and it belonged to the divine feminine. And they know exactly what happened. God gets a divorce. God's her primary symbol. You can't get rid of all of it. But you neuter it. You leave it with just basic components and everybody forgets about the original story. - My understanding was that Moses is in Exodus. Moses is in Exodus also, but the idea of the law giver and that story is deuteronomy. - Oh, I see. So going to Mount Sinai, coming down with the devils. - Yes. And the Ark of the Covenant. - And the Ark of the Covenant. - Exactly. That story, I see. Okay, so they, first of all Jews may have had an awareness of Moses as a figure. - As a figure. - That leads them out of slavery and into the Promised Land. - Yeah. And this is the question is that, okay, they have this story of Moses coming out of Egypt with all the wisdom of the Egyptians. But yet we can't find evidence of this existence. So this is where this idea really gets built up that Moses is more of a fictional figure than an actual historical figure. - I see. And then Josiah takes it very seriously and says, hey, we're making this a very structured sort of religious experience. - Exactly. - And we're leaving all the psychedelic and kind of mystical stuff. - Leaving the five feminine out of it. We're getting rid of the complete Ark of the Covenant, the connection with Egypt. And this is, again, sets up this conflict with the later Essenes, writers of Enoch and other stories that are trying to sort all this out. - I see. - Hey guys, we're gonna take a break really quick 'cause I wanna tell you about ultra-focus pouches. Now, if you know anything about me, I love nicotine. I also love caffeine. 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My favorite flavor is watermelon, but the blue raspberry is making a real comeback. I love that one. And so if you want focus energy without nicotine or caffeine, I'm telling you Ultra is the way to go. Ultra pouches are awesome. It is the guilt free pouch. Even if you just like putting in a pouch because it feels nice, Ultra has something for you. New customers can even use the code camp CAMP to get 15% off at takeultra.com. That is takeultra, ULTRA.com for 15% off with the code camp. And after you purchase, they're gonna ask where you heard about Ultra. Tell them the Mark and Crestos here at the campsite center. Now I need to ask you about the pyramids. - Sure. - Because the pyramids are these massive structures. They were the wonders of the world. No one really fully knows how they're built. We have ideas of course that, you know, you throw enough men and something they can get something done. But now there's all these theories that kind of float around about why. They're also so ancient. I don't know if people fully know. I mean, they're old kingdom, like what, 4,000 years old, maybe even more. And like the adage the people like to say is, you know, Cleopatra, right? One of the last of the Pharaohs, so to speak, is closer to us than she was to the pyramids. In terms of creation of the pyramids. That she saw the pyramids and she was like, those are old. And the Cleopatra saying it, then it's hard for us to really contextualize. But we look at these structures and there's many different theories about why. So one theory is like this ancient power plant, right? I think it was done, I forget his name. - Chris Dunn. - Chris Dunn. Thank you. He kind of purports this power plant theory that maybe it's a way to generate electricity or something. Of course, there is the kind of main line of the tombs that, you know, this is where we would bury Pharaohs and these things exist to commemorate these great leaders of Egypt. In this theory, would the pyramids and the purpose of them, would it fall into either of those camps or is it a new camp altogether? - I think it's a new camp altogether. I think it's a separate idea or technology, if you will, than what we're talking about. I don't think anybody really knows who built the pyramids. Personally, I've subscribed to what the ancient Egyptians said, they called them MR, MR. Pyramid meant place of ascension. And so I go with that. MR. Pyramid. MR. Pyramid, yeah, Mr. Pyramid. Mr. Pyramid, MR, Egypt was also originally called the land of mayor. It means land of love, land of waters. But MR specifically means, as associated with the Pyramid, means place of ascension. - I see. So do you think it was almost like a temple where they would perform rituals to ascend? Do you think it was a burial place? Like a place of ascension could track to be a burial place. - Yeah, probably not a burial place so much as it is, like an active technology for ascension. We get this from the correspondence software that goes with the hardware, the pyramids, this is the pyramid text, oldest religious text in the world, around 2,600 BC found at Sikara. - I'm not really familiar with this. Could you explain in more detail? - Yeah, so about eight miles from the great pyramid complex is Sikara, which was sort of an original ascension mystery school. This is where the step pyramid was constructed. It's considered the world's oldest building. It's prototype for the pyramid. You've got these what are called mastabas nearby. These completely dilapidated stone structures that, they say, "Oh yeah, that's the prototype." Then we built the step pyramid. Then we built the great pyramid, right? It is the idea and the chronology go from 2,600 to around 2,400 BC. The step pyramid at Sikara, you have the pyramid of Bunoz. I mean, literally you throw a baseball and hit the step pyramid from Bunoz's pyramid. 90 feet below the ground in his tumor, what are called the pyramid text. They're etched all over the interior walls. And they're dedicated to Bunoz and his transformation. And they have sayings in them. There's hundreds of them and some of them say stuff like, the Pharaoh turned into a flash of lightning. The Pharaoh scaled the ladder to heaven. The Pharaoh went through the portal. The Pharaoh is now with the gods. And so it's all about his transfiguration or transformation into lightning, which is a plasma state, a preparatory to his journey into the stars. And it sets up this idea that the human body is capable of such a transfiguration. And remember, the angels of the Lord are also described as beings like lightning. In his transfiguration, Jesus also morphs into lightning. Okay? So this is something that has been in kind of the human zeitgeist or consciousness for a while, but it originates, I believe, with the pyramid text. I can't find any text older that described this transfiguration, but they're very clear that this is a transformation or transfiguration of metamorphosis that is happening so that the Pharaoh can then journey into the stars through the gates of the gods. And these teachings are coupled, not only with the step pyramid, it's a car, but also with the geese of pyramids, as well, as if to say that there is some sort of a technology that can transmute the body into a different form. And perhaps the pyramid is part of that equation. Like, it is a physical technology. Like a physical technology. Well, the pyramid's being the physical part, and then the pyramid text describing the biological part that our body itself is somehow capable of transmuting itself into this higher form. Is it possible it's just a figure speech? It's, yeah, absolutely, because just try and do it, you know? I mean, it's not something you see every day. You hear about every couple thousand years or so. You know, the pyramid text, 2600 BC, clearly describe it. The New Testament clearly describes this, but I haven't known anybody that's, well, Padmasambhava and the Tibetan tradition, the rainbow light body tradition is said to have done that as well, as well as hundreds of other saints, but it's not a common thing. - Oh, really? - Yeah. - Oh, interesting. I haven't heard that in the St. traditions. - Oh, yeah. Within the Tibetan tradition. - Yeah, sure. - It even also, Francis of Assisi, that's part of his transfiguration as well. He became a hybrid human angel. That's why we were thought of as, at the time of his life. - Does that, the stories around him say that he became like light? - Yeah, they became a human angel and they did. Yeah, there's depictions of Francis. - Can you do it? - Yeah, Google, look for Francis of Assisi, angel human hybrid. You're sleeping and bring up this one particular drawing, I'm thinking. - Wow. - Is that accepted like church doctor, or is that like lore around him? - No, no. This is in his biography, St. Bonaventure, when he wrote about Francis describes this, and then the artwork of the time shows Francis, not only receiving the stigmata from Christ as a Sarah from angel, but then also his ascension. - This is fascinating, I've never heard this before. - Yeah, that is a really interesting. It's interesting to see it come up so many times. Like again, it makes me beg the question, like is this just a flowery part of speech where people describe, you know, I think about people in my life that have passed away. And if I were to write about them in a very poetic, kind of maybe even a contextualized by the time, I might say like, oh, they're, like now I would say they're in a better place. - Right. - I don't know where exactly they are, but I assume they're in a better place. I won't believe that. I would say that they went with God. I would say that they've ascended. I would say, you know, maybe even a flash of light is how I would describe it, even though I never saw that with anyone that passed away. - Right. - So there's the metaphorical component, or maybe it's a thing that's kind of in our zeitgeist where like, you know, we use this because we're drawing on older traditions, or maybe people are turned to flash of the light. - Well, I mean, this is an important question too, because I call these figure star walkers. Star walkers, a term I got from the ancient Egyptians, the Shrine of Tutankhaman, shows Tutankhaman's transformation from an ordinary human into a being capable of walking the stars. And the ancient Egyptian had, they had a technology composed of tones, lights and plants, probably medicinal plants, like psychedelic plants that could kick start this transformation into a being capable of walking the stars. And one of the last living beings that I've ever encountered is Francis of Assisi who follows that star walker trail who's actively going about his own transformation and transfiguration and purposefully trying to ascend. - But he's not using plants, or maybe he is. - You know, there's a lot of research that's done in that area, some of it is speculative. Like, for example, one of my favorites that I can't absolutely verify, but intuitively, I think it's probably pretty legit. Look at Francis's head there. These top of his head shaved. - Right, typical fryer kind of look. - Yeah, why? Why did they do that? Well, the answer is, you got razor burn when you shave the top of your head. You pour the psychedelic oil into the blood, into the, into the sore. The blood vessels are exposed. It seeps into the brain, breaks the blood brain barrier. And that explains why, 'cause they didn't want the oil dripping down their face. Either, that was one of the preconditions that Moses' brother Aaron even spoke about that. We don't want the oil dripping down our face. So they're pouring something into the top of their head. And they're, or my colleges, mushroom experts, academics that say, this is why they were shaving the top of their head was a way to introduce that oil into their bloodstream. - Interesting. - Yeah. - There's not a better way to do it. I guess I wonder if there's also like a visual signature here where they all know, like, yo, where are the people that do this, you know? - Right. - Yeah, that's really interesting. it is. And again, it's cited as kind of, you know, it's perhaps even if it's anecdotal, it's still very fascinating because again within the story of Francis, he's living in a time when, hey, you know, they're out in the forest, he's meditating in the hills in Laverna up above and there's all kinds of crazy stories about what he and Claire, his primary apostle would get up to up there, like they'd go up to the top of the mountain to meditate and suddenly the whole mountain would be illuminated. You know, why did they tell stories like that unless there's something that was going on? Right. What can else can you tell me about these rituals that the Egyptians were doing to communicate? You're describing obviously psychedelics, which I think is pretty easy to track. If we can presume there's some type of psychedelic wine, then yeah, consuming psychedelics will make you perceive some type of grand reality outside of your own. That's pretty clear. Tones and light. Tones lights and plants. Tones and light are interesting because I'm not as familiar as with how that can happen. Tones would be chanting. Tones could be, tones is singing. Tones is the music of the spheres. So there's several different ways that tones or vibrations can be involved here, even earth vibration. That's one of the theories about the great pyramids is transducer. They can draw up the earth energy and get that thing pulsing. So now you're in a heightened state of awareness, got everybody on in Egypt also on the same frequency, that sort of idea. And the lights could also be starlight as well and connecting with other star systems or beings from star systems. Interesting. Then the plants are self-explanatory. Right. I went to Tunisia when I was just a boy. Tunisia is the same BBC documentary, which I think is flashy. And we went into a cave and the guide that we were with explained to myself and my mother that in the cave they would do these kind of ritual show things. And I don't know if you've heard of a version of this. I would be surprised if you heard about my specific Tunisian experience. But they described this thing where these men would go into these caves and sometimes with an audience and sometimes alone. And they would play music extremely loud typically with like a drum. And they would create this like very heightened state within this cave with this music bang bang echoing throughout the cave. They would use candles and specific fashions. Sometimes people putting baskets over candles to create like this oscillating kind of almost strobe effect. And through meditation. And they never included psychedelics. But I wouldn't be surprised that they were able to put themselves into this heightened state where they were able to perform these acts that people thought was bizarre. They were able to like handle snake bites and they would hit themselves with a cacti. And they would do these sort of amazing feats of strength. So to speak. As this kind of like show and this kind of ritual and I'm just it always stuck with me as a kid like oh you can get into these heightened states. Not even necessarily meeting psychedelics. Absolutely. And in addition they were doing them in ancient Tunisia. For sure. So the psychedelics are really training wheels to get you into that experience. Like we speak of dimethyl trip to mean we know for a fact that it's endogenously produced within our pineal gland. We have a endocannaboid system in our body that was wasn't known until 1982. How is it possible that somebody probably the watchers teaches humanity if you take this herb and you either smoke it or introduce it into your system. There is a part of your nervous system that is hardwired and this herb acts like a key unlocking a door within you. So we produce the substance was produced THC within our body. We produce DMT within our body. This is the perspective and the idea is that yes we can do it internally but you can also you can also fly from from here in New York to London on you know a DC seven or you could take the Concord right either way you're going to get there pretty quickly but one's going to get you there faster right and meditation is another way meditation chanting dancing singing breath work all will trigger this response within us but it's also possible to introduce something outside the body that can produce it and this really takes us to the heart of why for example the the the the priest who wrote Enoch were taking their position you're on an ockie broad cosmetics you are not allowed to beautify your face why right exactly seems like it's just a total moral idea if men can have beards women can have makeup exact that that's my rule exact I'm okay to outlaw makeup if we have to shave that way it's even there you go and it tries me crazy too because I know some of my colleagues they'll hold up Enoch or the Dead Sea Scrolls and say see this is why we don't want to engage with transhuman technology because Enoch says so and I'm like well wait a minute you know Enoch also says well ladies shouldn't wear cosmetics so we're going to draw the line call your wife yeah yeah if you're going to start talking like that then you have to go by the letter of what they're saying and that's why I just dismiss it it's like this is just a a priest moralizing here and suddenly we're trying to live by it right it's also like again if you're coming from a religious perspective it's not really included in Christian canon I know the Ethiopians have it in their book right but it's you know it's sort of an apocryphal text right yeah I mean in some cases I think of some of these texts like Enoch and others of the Dead Sea Scrolls there I refer to them as ascension simulation texts because these ancient people would rehearse their ascension over and over again until they made it like a concrete reality in their mind and Enoch is one of those kind of guide books for an experience like that the book of Hebrews is where Jesus manifest is the priest forever after the order of Melchizedek is another of these texts that describes vividly and visually a journey into other were other realms through a guide and the ideas then is that you plug your imagination into these stories and then you embody it I think the thing that's very interesting to me from the psychedelic perspective is I think on the surface level it seems a bit obvious to people they go yeah you do psychedelics you're going to see stuff like duh but it does raise a question of how did we learn that this happens and you're describing these different processes to kind of pull out these psychedelic properties from these things like Acacia you can't just eat it right like you can't like you can't smoke it necessarily you have to do something else to try to extract the DMT I a wasca perhaps is most interesting example yeah because requires two elements put together there's two kind of ingredients to the brew and I've heard it said and again I don't know how true this is but I've heard it said that the amount of possible permutations required in the Amazon to find out that these two elements specifically create this psychoactive experience right it's like more possible permutations than like time that exists it would take so many eons to discover this if you just tried every single one so somehow they figured this out right and it's an interest like with a mushroom it's like okay maybe they eat a bunch of mushrooms and I like that one makes you see stuff right sure but the the i wasco one is so interesting and in this theory would you say that it's possible that through these types of practices that they were it was revealed to them that if you combine these two things you can have this psychoactive experience I mean it's practically a miracle that those were revealed and those are those substances also the brew I've referred to them as preparations it's the same thing with the oil it's also a preparation it's something that is created or prepared that then prepares you for a greater experience and it's just fascinating we don't have the answer of how we were able to put these these particular herbs together as you said out of hundreds of thousands or more that this works they all they say is the plants told us right and it's something that I think Christians have to contend with in a way because growing up in a Catholic household going to a Presbyterian school you would be told hey don't mess around psychedelics they would kind of vaguely imply that it's a portal into honored wisdom that it is eating of the forbidden fruit that it is in some way tacitly demonic right and the question is then why is it here like why did did God create this like why do people do it and then become believers I have so many friends I can think of probably five right now that were sort of kind of committed atheists one was agnostic or two were agnostic and they're like yeah maybe and they went through a psychedelic experience and came out the other side they were like God is absolutely real and he loves me and it completely transformed their life and I look at it from a Christian perspective I'm like is that bad like is that I have one friend specifically that started going to a Christian church after a psychedelic experience and I'm like is that bad from the Christian perspective is it a bad thing that this guy found Christ through psychedelics is that wrong like I don't know really how you square that as a Christian yeah Christianity has a real psychedelic problem as for sure because the word psychedelic of course just means soul or mind awakening and so if they're arguing Christ is not about psychedelics then they're essentially saying Christ is not about soul or mind awakening which is completely false to begin with right and they also look at the environment in which Jesus emerged Yeshua emerged we have several thousand years of documented history of the use of these substances before he arrived including in the Buddhist tradition and in the Jewish tradition what they're what Christianity is saying is there's only one teacher who ever walked the planet who never had anything to do with psychedelics that's Jesus that doesn't make any sense either so I'm not saying that that Jesus is walking around you know dish and out doses but pretty much Jesus is walking around dish and out doses and wasn't actually Jesus that was dishing them out, it was the disciples, it was the mirror force, it was Mary Magdalene and the tribe of priestesses that were involved in the creation of the various brews and the other substances that they were using. And when you start to look at the story from this perspective, it opens it up wide open. Going back to what we were speaking about earlier, when I wrote my book, The Psychedelic Christ, The Lost Dose of the Son of Man, I was absolutely sure I was going to open the book with Jesus taking the disciples up to Mount Hermann. This is where he revealed himself as the son of man. He never called himself Christ or Messiah, maybe sparingly. His title was The Son of Man, and he used that over 81 times in the New Testament, and he revealed that term for himself at the base of Mount Hermann. Which interestingly, the book of Enoch also describes the son of man in the place of the cosmos. Enoch is the prototype son of man. Jesus is the second Enoch. So of course, he's going to use the same title as Enoch. It's a title for an advanced human, with a capital S and a capital M. Son of Man is an ascended human. Lowercase S is a human being. And just worth noting that among the usage of that term son of man, son of man is the term that's used for the cosmic axis, the latter or stairway to heaven that the angel's ascended to send upon. Son of man is the term for the ultimate secrets of ascension. Jesus says no one has ascended to heaven except he who came down from heaven. And just as Moses lifted the serpent of healing in the wilderness, so must the son of man be lifted. The serpent of healing is the son of man is what he's saying. That is the secret of eternal life, but yet Catholicism demonizes that symbol. So we got a problem here. We're not agreeing on what this symbolism says. We're not agreeing on what Jesus says. We're just deciding we're not even going to look into it. But when you look into it, it gets very nuanced. And back to what we're speaking of a moment ago, it's extremely important that Jesus marches the disciples out to mount Hermon. He collects the dew of Hermon. What's the dew of Hermon? Oh, that's equated by academics with the manna that Moses manifested in the wilderness. And of course, Jesus is now doing Moses. So we better show up with that manna. And here's where you get to decide which version you want to go with. Is that manna just some miraculous food that fell out of the sky or was it in fact a psychedelic substance or a substance that had a psychedelic effect on the disciples? And why is Jesus taking the disciples to go get that substance? Because he's the new Moses? Yeah, that's part of it. But he's also adapting the existing sacrament that was in place so that the people would understand what he's talking about. And then the way I interpret the Mount Hermon journey is that he knows we got to watch her problem. He knows we got a problem with the Ananaki. And Jesus is saying, I'm here fix it. I'm the one who's come in here to parachute it into this realm. I'm the avatar, the high celestial being as they refer to him in the Dead Sea Scrolls that the Essenes called in to help humanity to escape this mill you that we've been trapped in since Adam and Eve were evicted from Eden. And one of the keys is the use of this sacrament. And furthermore, I mean a really good example that opened my awareness to it was thinking about Jesus feeding the 5,000 with a single loaf of bread. It's a miraculous story. A miraculous story. 5,000 plus people because women and children weren't counted. They, you know, this is part of the patriarchal thing. They're not good enough to be counted. But it's 5,000 men and a corresponding number of women and children are also part of this experience that spontaneously miraculously go into the state of ecstasy and bliss that seems to match either a psilocybin or maybe a psilocybin mushroom or ammonita muscaria mushroom experience. What if that loaf of bread was a mushroom we're talking about here is what we today call micro dosing and they're passing it out so people can get into this ecstatic state where their heart is open their consciousness is awakened and now they can perceive these higher teachings that have been previously told that these are off limits to you. Could you pull up the the dew of Mount Hermon? Yeah, do of Hermon? Yeah, could you just google that? I would love to see the text and how it sort of describes that. And additionally, if you have other specific scriptural sources to kind of build this case, maybe if someone's listening, that's a complete skeptic and they're like, no, Jesus was just he came down. Maybe he was a wise teacher. Maybe he was a truly the son of God, but they don't believe the psychedelic component. What would you say are the strongest evidence? Read the book of John, which is the most probably ethereal, most supernatural. This is where the son of man is most profusely discussed. Jesus tells Nicodemus, I'm not from this world. I'm from above. You're from down here. I'm from another world. You're from this world, suggesting there's layers. And that's why the the conduit, the son of man, cosmic axis is so important because he's saying there is a conduit between the layers of creation. Here it is. This is Aaron Moses, Aaron's brother, talking about the oil running down their face onto their beard. So this is Psalm 132. "Behold how good and how pleasant is for brethren to dwell together in unity. It is like the precious omen upon the head that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron's beard that went down to the skirts of his garment as the dew of Hermann and as the dew that descended upon the mountains of Zion for there the Lord commanded the blessing even life forevermore." Yeah. So they're talking about the dew of Hermann, which when you follow that story, you're realizing they're talking about the dew as equated to mana, the star food that fed the Israelites during their wandering and the wilderness. I see. And the idea then is that this gets extrapolated. The mana is considered to be the bread of life. Jesus identifies himself as the bread of life, the true food, a food that came from heaven. What is this? And then the same thing comes along when he introduces the idea of the Eucharist with the blood being the wine and the water turning into wine. These are all transmutational stories that we're dealing with here. And Jesus is demonstrating that he is going to do the ultimate transmutation. He's going to take his flesh and blood body and turn it into celestial flesh or light plasma, a lightning-like state as it's described. But he's also talking about a transformation of our consciousness as well in the agents that can advance that or promote that. Do you know which gospel Christ brings the disciples to Mount Hermann? That's also in the gospel of John, I believe. Could you serve memory? Gospel of John Christ disciples Mount Hermann. I'd be so curious to know like that exact. Sure. It's interesting. I've always learned like growing up Catholic that Christ is the, I guess, the fulfillment of that ark of the covenant where he is the new priesthood. Well, Mary becomes the new ark. She's the new ark and then Christ is the, I guess, what is in contained within the ark, the man of the bread of life, the priesthood, the staff of Aaron, and then the new law, the, you know, the. And that's so important because again, we're to internalize all of this. Most aren't aware that Christ had a throne. If I said to you, hey, tell me about Christ's throne. What would you say? I don't know. He's in heaven. See to the right hand of the throne. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Typical. But if you google a word called Adamesia, a E T I M A S I A, you'll see the actual throne of Christ as it was known up until about the 8th or ninth century. Then the Catholic church got rid of that. Got rid of that too. The throne of Christ included a platform that looks like the ark of the covenant, a flask of mana, a cruise of an noiting oil and a cross as an instrument of transmutation as well as a couple of books. That's exactly the same as the original components of the ark of the covenant, suggesting that Jesus is fulfilling. That's one example. There's there are other examples. That's the throne of Christ. That is Christ right there to the first Christians. What Catholicism did is it got rid of all of the symbols except the cross that people now wear around their necks. Here's other examples from early, early examples that that one right there in the middle. That's from Italy 8th century. The Adamesia. The one immediately to the left is really handy because it's got the the robe of light on it on the platform with a footstool. By definition, that's the ark of the covenant. Got a jar of an noiting oil. You've got the two angels protecting it and the cross attached to it. That's Christ to the first first Christians. And Catholicism didn't like that. So they got rid of all of the tools that these are sometimes called the armor Christy, the armor of Christ, the tools or relics of Christ. They got rid of all of it and left you with the cross as the symbol for Christianity. That's a complete substitution. This is the original symbol of Christ. And you match that. You put that beside the original components of the ark of the covenant. They're the exact same thing. But to your point, which is so important, what they were taught was that we were doing them body the symbols. Okay? So, if you think about it, before I say that, let me just say, you got Paul and Ephesians telling the people and Ephesus and Turkey to be careful of the archons. These are beings intermediary beings out there. They want your soul. And Paul tells them the remedy is to put on the armor of God, the crown of salvation, the breastplate of righteousness, the belt of truth, the sandals of peace, let your faith be your shield. So, let's say there's what, a thousand first Christians living in Ephesus, he can't be telling them to hike it down to Nordstrom in Ephesus and go get the latest, you know, Gucci shoes are shinny. now belt, right? Because, first of all, the breastplate of righteousness is made of gold with precious gems. So a thousand people couldn't go get one of those things. They're just not handy, right? Also expensive, expensive. I think what Paul is referring to, what they know is that those are symbols. Paul is saying to protect yourself from those dark, demonic, aronic beings, expand your consciousness, put on the crown of salvation, put on the breastplate of righteousness, open your heart, speak truth, walk in peace, let your faith be your shield. Now you're activating latent capabilities within us. You're suited up. Now you're ready to go. You know what you're suited up to do? Cross the veil and go interact with the Ark of Covenant. That's exactly what the Israelites high priest would wear. Exactly the same. It's also the same as what Anana was wearing, that Ananaki priestess. When she gathered the Shagura helmet that takes you far into the universe and puts on her rainbow necklace and her belt and her garment, it's the exact same set of symbols. And it's talking about how we traverse higher consciousness realms. So in this case, Jesus is saying, or Paul is saying, put on all this stuff. And now you're prepared to go stand before the throne of Christ, the etymacia, the expected throne. They call it the prepared throne. It's out there somewhere waiting recollection for the time of the second coming. But the way I look at it is if the armor of God or internal symbols, maybe the throne is too. So if you're talking about the Ark of Covenant as the platform, the footstool, which is what this is, then where do we put that on in our body? Well, what if that's our lower three chakras, right? We all have the seven chakras or energy centers. We count them one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, all good children. Go to heaven. You know, we learn that from the time we can speak, right? Our bodies the stairway to heaven. So what if the Ark is within us? And it's the lower part of our energy centers, our chakras? What if the instrument, the cross, the instrument of transmutation? What if that's our spinal cord? And then you got two tablets you got to contend with. Well, what if those are the two hemispheres of our brain? Now we need a jar containing anointing oil. Well, that's the pineal gland, which we now know is a manufacturing plant of these sacred oils and secretions and hormones. Melatonin puts us to sleep, benzodiazepines to help us to reduce pain, put us in states of ecstasy. Dimethyltriptamine is secreted by our pineal gland. It opens portals and gateways in our consciousness. Now, if a sudden you've got exactly the kind of tradition that Francis of the C.C. subscribed to, he was one of the last to really embody these ideas internally or physically. And that makes a big difference if you're looking for the arc of the covenant out here, or if you're trying to piece it somehow together within our mystic anatomy. So would it also follow that the Jewish priest of the time of Christ would have taken major issue with his teaching because he's pulling on the Egyptian wisdom and Egyptian rituals? That is the deep threat. I mean, that is what is revealed in the Dead Sea Scrolls, which again, their community rule, which was their kind of like their constitution. If they have refrigerators and microwave ovens, they would have put this document on those appliances, right? It's that important. And they say they're calling in a high celestial being who will reveal knowledge hidden from humanity and assist us in putting on our crown of salvation and our robe of unending light. There's the robe right there. That's the light body garment that effectively is what Jesus did with his resurrection that the shroud of Turin is the physical relic or evidence of that transmutation that's symbolized by that cloaker garment sitting on his throne. And who made that prophecy? Who made the prophecy of that there's this being that'll come back? Oh, the Essenes. Yeah, this is their constitution. This is called the community rule. And so they're calling in this being, this is what he's going to reveal. And in that document, the Essenes also say that they are literally living with angels. And these angels are teaching the Essenes to transmute themselves into angels. This is one reason why the Essenes are so dangerous at that time. And another reason why Rome came in after the crucifixion resurrection and ascension and completely obliterated the entirety of Jerusalem. They destroyed the Temple of Solomon. They hunted and murdered anybody that had any connection with this. And this is partly why some of the symbolism goes underground as well is because they don't want the Romans to have any access to a period. So the Essenes, would you say that they're pro kind of consciousness elevation and ascension through these kinds of entirely atypical ideas? They're much more mystical. Oh, entirely mystical. And they're preserving the book of first Enoch, which is kind of anti Egyptian mysticism. It's in their library. It's one of the books that I see. Yeah, it's one of the books. It's not like they held this up and said, this is it. You know, I've got books in my library that I don't necessarily agree with. But I still keep them because I need to know about them. Right. Right. And so the Essenes are kind of saying that there's going to be a wise teacher that comes along. That's mystical. And yeah. And the high celestial being is the term they actually use. You believe that they were perhaps maybe coincidentally or maybe directly inferencing Christ. I know they were intuitively. And I can't prove it 100% historically. Nobody really can. Sure. But what also drops out of this is the understanding that Mary is practicing Parthenogenesis to bring in this avatar. And historically, she is part of a whole lineage of these Hebrew priestesses. Mary herself was conceived through Virgin birth. Her mother Anna conceived her through Parthenogenesis. And Anna is part of this lineage of Hebrew priestesses going back to the time of Abraham that are bringing in these beings. And the history of Parthenogenesis is a whole other story. But it's just worth noting that people like Amenhotep III, the Father of Bechannatin, Buddha, Pythagoras, Plato, we're all can see through Virgin birth long before Jesus. I see. Hey guys, we're going to take a break really quick because I want to give a quick shout out to one of our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by mod. Mod prescribes a once or twice daily, but definitely a drink that can keep you energized, focused, and alert throughout the entire day. And here's how it works. Energy drinks with caffeine, temporarily block adenosine. This is the chemical that makes you feel tired. And it builds up, and when the caffeine wears off, you get that crash. But Modaphanol works differently. It engages multiple pathways in your brain, including dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine, andorexin to achieve steady energy and alertness for 10 to 12 hours. Modaphanol was invented in the 1970s. And since then, it's been used by some of the highest performers on and off the planet. Yeah, soldiers, pilots, and even astronauts aboard the International Space Station have used Modaphanol in high-stake situations where concentration and alertness literally could cost you your life. And now it's available through mod.com to qualifying patients. Visit mod.com. That is m-o-d.com for a free consultation and get 10% off your first order plus free shipping with the promo code gagnon. That is the promo code gagnon g-a-g-n-o-n at mod.com. See their website for important safety information, and we thank mod for sponsoring the pod. Now let's get back to it. Now I guess most people listening will be familiar with the story of Christ as it's laid out through the Bible. Right. Your interpretation of it. How would you kind of lay out the beats? So you're describing Mary as someone that has a high spiritual acumen that accepts this gift. Yes, she's a temple priestess. She's raised in the temple priesthood as a virgin that is trained in how to conceive these children. And I get into detail in this in my book The Psychedelic Christ, because this is a really important parallel version of the story. And I'll give you an example of this that talks about this. Again, Christianity says zero connection between Christ and psychedelics, period, ever, never happened. Okay. Let's go back to the revelation of the Maggi. Sixth century Syrian, Syrian text might actually have been written in a desa in present day Turkey. And it tells the story of the Maggi that everybody knows, either from church or if you go to Walmart during Christmas time, you see these greeters out there, the Maggi. Right. The wise men from the east who followed a star and it led them to Bethlehem and the birth of the Christ child. That's the traditional version. In the in an earlier version, the Syrian revelation of the Maggi, the story goes like this. The Maggi have every year been going up to the top of a mountain called the mountain of victories where they're studying astrology, they're studying the secrets and the relics that belong to Adam and Eve before the time of the flood. They know an avatar is coming. They follow not a star, they follow a star child. The star child takes them to a cave manifest in this cave. Tells them he's a time travel. I've been here in the past. I've been in the future and I'm here and now. He gives them some star food. The Maggi eat the star food. They go into bliss and ecstasy. After they leave the star child, they go back home and they give the star food to the people. They all have instant visions of Christ. That's a historical document that directly links in my opinion psychedelics with the story of Christ. It's not saying he was a star. It's saying he was a star child. That's what the Essenes said too. It's only modern Christianity that refuses to accept these origins stories is being authentic. But if you open it up to them, suddenly these two parallel tracks are parallel for a while, but in my view, they ultimately converge, and you converge on a greater understanding, an even greater understanding of who Christ was, in my opinion. So how does Mary become impregnated with Christ? Well, this is what the enunciation is about. You've got the Archangel Gabriel, who has in typical Christian art, a rod or wand in his or her hand, conducts the Holy Spirit. Well, the heavens open, right, which sounds like a stargate or a rip in the fabric of spacetime. And here comes the dove of the Holy Spirit. Then that dove, or that, yeah, the Holy Spirit is either conducted into her belly or into her ear, and now she's impregnated. Okay. This is exactly the same story as told about Amenhotep III in Egypt, 1400 years before him. I can take you to the temple in Luxor. We're on the temple wall. It shows though, not Gabriel, appearing to this queen saying, you're going to bear this divine child. I'm going to conduct the soul into your body. The temple wall shows the the fetus being formed in her body. The child is then born. The child is enthroned. The child becomes a great leader. It's beat for beat the Christ story. And some would argue, oh, well, that means that Jesus is just a copy of this ancient Egyptian original. And I'm like, no, that's not what this means. It means we're dealing with a lineage here. This has been going on for several thousand years before the time of Jesus, where avatars are intentionally brought into the earth plane to advance the human race. And it's not to say that Jesus never existed or was, as I said, a copy. It's like, no, it's a continuation of something that had been going on for a long time. The next of the prophets. And this takes us back to Mount Hermann, because at Hermann, this is where the fallen angels descended, right? And there's the den of leperds is up there on top. If I could go to one place, it would go to be the top of Mount Hermann. I want to know what's actually up there. Some sanctuary, they talk about megalithic temples up on top of Mount Hermann. It's off limits. It's like, you know, over 10,000 feet tall, this mountain. And so Jesus marches the disciples there because I think of the Nephilim problem. And to me, the fundamental Nephilim problem is what stated in the book of Gilgamesh, the epic of Gilgamesh, where Gilgamesh has told he's two-thirds divine and one-third human. Now, let's just say, just for conversation that archetypically, that represents all of humanity, where two-thirds divine and one-third human, which means in order to progress or advance as a species, we want to become not two-thirds divine, but fully divine, right? And if we want to put a number on that, divinity is symbolized by a circle, and a circle is 360 degrees. So if Gilgamesh is two-thirds divine, he's 240 out of 360. And what this story is about is like, hey, Yomash, before you try to go through the gate of the Anonaki, you want to clean up your act, because if you go through 240 out of 360, it's probably going to be like walking into a blender. You're going to get your feathers ruffled. So they're really doing them a favor. They're saying, yes, humans can evolve. We can become divine or more whole, complete and perfect, but it's going to take something. We're going to have to do some work. And so maybe that Nephilim experiment goes awry. And Jesus then takes the disciples to the base of Hermann to say, all right, let's fix this. I'm going to show you what a fully functioning human being can do. Just watch me. I'm going to take this temple, and I'm going to destroy it. And in three days, I'm going to bring it back to life. I'm going to resurrect it. And this is what is hardwired into all of our DNA. At least that's the way I interpret the Christ story. We are to literally follow him in that process. And that's important for us to think about today, where so many think maybe we're living in some kind of an end time, or the robots are going to take over. AI is going to destroy humanity. And all this sort of thing. Well, in the book of Revelation, Jesus just tells us explicitly through John that at that time a new human will walk the earth that is spiritually and physically transformed. And we will in fact specifically mirror Christ. That doesn't mean we're going to be five foot ten inch Jewish guys with long hair and a beard weigh 165 pounds that are bodybuilders, by the way. That's what you see on the shroud of Turin. You see a guy that was an advanced yogi who developed his body specifically for transmutation. When when Christ says we're going to mirror him, it means we're going to mirror him in his ascension. We're going to mirror him in his resurrection. We're going to take this body and turn it into a next higher form. And in Christian art, this is portrayed as a luminous or radiant body, emitting rainbow colored light that has the ability to traverse the stars. So in this interpretation, do you believe that, for example, the Shred of Turin is an authentic garment that was wrapped around Christ? I absolutely believe, but I've experienced it twice when it was on display in 2010 and 2015. I went back again because the first time I had such an amazing experience with it, a vision of this golden orb of light with Christ manifesting in that light. Like an actual vision that you experienced? Yeah. When we went in, I was from here to that wall from the shroud of Turin and they allowed you to spend good, healthy minute and a half in front of it. And then you could circle back if you wanted and meditate in front of it. Well, I say meditate. There were pews that were set up so you could just sit and contemplate or whatever. And I go into close my eyes, go into a state of meditation, trying to connect with the shroud. Because I know from my shroud research that to the first Christians, the shroud was considered to be a sacred mirror. They thought of as an icon, a two-way method of communication. So it's not just a linen cloth that actually is an active way of engaging with the resurrected Christ. His essence, his frequency, if you will, to use a sort of a new age spiritual term is imbued within that cloth. When I described in the Bible, like the woman that touches the cloth of Christ, just that hand looks. Yeah, exactly. And she's, I think, healed of something. Yeah, exactly. Or touching the bones of Alayshah. All of a sudden, someone springs back to life and is resurrected. Absolutely. I think it's a real phenomenon. The early Christian icon makers knew the same thing. Very important. And so that was my lens, my mindset as I'm approaching the shroud. And I have this golden, luminous orb with the face of Christ in it. And I realized, wow, at least from my personal perspective, I feel like I connected with the resurrected Christ through the shroud. And then in 2015, they brought it back out for a very short time to commemorate it. It was an anniversary of something. I can't remember what it was. But what was fascinating is Pope Francis said the shroud is not a relic. The shroud is an icon. It's an icon of love. And I was ecstatic with that because it took it out of the category of, you know, some relic like the Holy Grail or, you know, some copper, whatever into a category of an icon, which in Catholic speak means a two-way method of communication, a mirror, a sacred mirror, the idea being that if it's an icon, then Christ could transmit something of his essence to you through that image. Did you receive anything that you felt like was profound outside of just the visual kind of aura? No, that was enough. I mean, that was really enough. Overwhelming experience? I wouldn't say overwhelming. But just the whole experience itself was, I, I opened my lifetime, I get to experience the shroud again. I will be there the first day if they never comes out again. So then in your framework, the version Mary is truly imbued through a virgin birth of some type of higher being. Yeah. We describe it as God. You might use a different terminology. Yeah. And Christ then is born as a truly divine human being. Yeah. And goes into, you know, goes to Egypt with his family to escape, perhaps learn some of this stuff while he's there. Without a doubt. And then now comes back and starts to teach. Exactly. Now so much. Not just teach, but also demonstrate. That was also the big problem with it too. Well, I want to ask about the demonstrations because so many of Christ, you know, miracles involve casting out demons, resurrections from the dead, walking on water. You've described, of course, a few that kind of have a psychedelic framework, but things like walking on water or resurrecting, resurrecting from the dead or himself resurrecting and appearing to thousands of people. Right. How do we interpret that through this lens? Well, at least from my perspective, early on, I wasn't raised in a Christian household. I went for racing a religious household at all. And in our home, the four apostles were Whalen, Willie, Chris, and Johnny. You know, Sunday was Johnny Cash records. You know, that was church. And then my family moved to Nashville. And I end up getting into, I go to a small Southern Baptist college to become an entertainment music lawyer and end up getting lit up with Christianity because we had to take Bible study classes. And so I had no preconceptions going into any of this. And I start with the Gnostic Gospels. I start with a Gnostic perspective, right? I didn't have to undo any teachings. I just hit it cold that this was all about resurrection and ascension and the Gnostic's calling in this advanced being and so forth. And I started studying the art, early Christian art. I got it in my head. I wanted to know what was the original version of Christian What was what did Jesus actually teach in one way I felt that I could get into that was not through the text But through the art that was created and when you studied Christian art and you find out that the earliest Christian art Portraying Jesus performing the miracles. He's got a rhodor wand in his hand Only the miracles of transmutation the other miracles were didn't involve the rhodor wand But when he's turning one thing into another Multiplying loaves and fishes raising Lazarus from the dead. He's kind of rhodor a wand in his hand. Can you show me? Yeah, he can Google it right now. Just look up Jesus magic wand a Roman art second century This went this existed up until about the fourth century after the council of NYSEA they get rid of all that They got rid of his throne a little bit later. They got rid of his wand early, right? Because it looked to Egyptian It's like wait a minute. He looks he looks just like thoth raising Lazarus in the temple of Sidi adabados This is though this is early Christian art in particular that one right there this blue one Yes, this is Jesus raising Lazarus who is Mary Magdalene's brother and he's wrapped up in a mummy Jesus is striking him with this rhodor wand hitting him right here on his third eye right on his pineal gland And it suggests to me that maybe Lazarus wasn't actually deceased. He wasn't a carcass He was just unawakened and Jesus is like I'll fix that and he gets his rhodor wand Smashes him over the head with it and I'm like, well, where did he get this wand? And it turns out there's a whole well-developed Jewish lore about this that it was made It was a branch that grew from the tree of life in the Garden of Eden and Adam brought it out of Eden with him and he passed it down through Enoch and it goes all the way through the genealogy of Jesus until Jesus acquires it and he performs his miracles of Mutation with it. That's that's a different different Jesus than you get in Sunday school as I understand it and it opens it up to me Makes it not less miraculous, but gives it more of a context, right? It's saying okay. There's a whole tradition that he's inserted into to me Christianity almost has him parachuting in in this very narrow slice of time for 33 years and nothing that happened before him Even counts, right, but that's not true. He's drawing upon all of these traditions. At least that's what the art is suggesting So this really lit me up thinking okay, well if he's got this wand and this is he's using it to perform the miracles Then what else is different about the Jesus story, right? Right now and you're understanding of this if we were to go back again with that same video camera Yeah, and film Lazarus being resurrected. What do you think we would see just in your intuition and your opinion in my opinion? I think Lazarus would have been like a almost like a test pilot in a way You have this whole Confluence of things that are coming together. You've got Mary Magdalene the chief apostle who's a mirror for her She's expert in plants and plant medicines So this is where the psychedelic angle comes in that she's actually the one that's creating these various oils That's why they're they're so mysteriously presented in the story of Jesus when she's anointing his feet with the oil when they they turn up at the At the tomb and Nicodemus who's also a mirror for Joseph of vermouthia is also a mirror for they show up with hundreds of pounds of aloe and other herbs in the tomb of resurrection this is all speaking to a very specific body of knowledge that these figures Possessed and that and many of these herbs that they're speaking about do have psychoactive qualities So in the case of Lazarus it could be as an instance where in my view the safe place is that this is a this is like a psychedelic awakening This is an initiation that is happening here Lazarus is asleep so to speak He's just you were to be looking at a video camera. He's corporal and conscious in a wake, but he's not ascended Exactly and then Christ through this rod or the staff with some type of psychedelic anointing oil Yeah places it on his head removes it and then now Lazarus is initiating It's like you know kind of the difference between me thinking yeah, this table is actually real Well, don't tell that to Albert Einstein You know, we now know this is all that mostly empty space It's it's energy. It's molecules. It's atoms in motion. That all comes together and we think it's solid But it's it's it's our brain that tricks us into into thinking that I see and so kind of the same thing is going on here It's like if you know, we accept that these are some advanced Miraphors and and avatars and you got to build a trust factor Who better to go to than Jesus's best friend Lazarus? Hey, I even did this in my best friend. Mm-hmm. Okay. Literally. Yeah It's an interesting theory because as I'm understanding it. It's not saying this is purely a you know material explanation that is purported through psychedelics and people consuming and ingesting psychedelics and thinking that they're God right you're saying It's a hybrid of an actual divine to catalyst non-human intelligence divine kind of ex being that comes to earth in the form of Jesus Christ And then it utilizes psychedelics as a portal to initiate the rest of humanity and yeah raising its consciousness. Yeah kind of beams in here What am I dealing with here? Oh, you got these plants. Okay. Good. Let's put all this together We're gonna use all the tools you've been using them historically You will understand when I speak about the wine that I'm actually referring to Dionysus that had been the the Greek God of wine for Hundreds of years before the time of Jesus. I'm gonna use Stuff that you already understand and so that that that really is the key thing is I'm not saying and this is why I wrote the psychedelic crisis because I had been collecting a library Mostly of books that were really hit jobs Christ never existed Christ was a mushroom. That's John Mark O'aleigh grow 1976 First guy to get eyes on the Dead Sea Scrolls comes back and says it's an ammonium is scary a mushroom called crisis just a mushroom Oh, come on, you know that that that wasn't widely accepted then it's not accepted now But then there was a whole lineage of these academics that really we're trying to you know again Take their hatchet and chop wood on Christianity chop down that tree as much as they possibly could I wasn't coming from that perspective at all And I'm not necessarily a card carrying Christian like I could go to the Lutheran church and fit in But I am a Christian. I'm a more of a mystical or ornostic-minded Christian And I believe much of the story of Jesus and so I wasn't trying to do a hit piece on it I was just trying to look at the history of it and say well, what if it's this is what they were doing and Furthermore, can I have that experience today like you know when Jesus is talking about the living waters flowing through us That that maps directly on to Neurotheology that that's a physiological experience. You're talking about chemistry now You're talking about serotonin flowing throughout our bodily system. What does the serotonin do put you in states of bliss and ecstasy and joy? That's just basis for like MDMA today medical grade MDMA not the crappy you get in the clubs But the medical grade stuff now that's being fast-tracked by the US government The experience of MDMA MDMA directly maps on to what they're describing is the experience of contact with the living waters in the new testament So what if we could amplify those waters within us through some of these these chemicals or these molecules? What's wrong with that right? Yeah, I share that experience. I've done mushrooms a handful of times I've done MDMA and the experience has been amazing like obviously I mean you do MDMA you're gonna have a good time Yeah, but it was transcendent and like even my mushroom experience there's a few things with it that I found interesting one I mean afterwards I felt very light. I felt less anxiety for a period of weeks. I felt great. I Observed visually which again, I when I close my eyes, I can't see anything like some people are really graded like visualizing things I can't do it for whatever reason but on mushrooms I could and when I'm taking mushrooms I can see things and I for whatever reason saw as tech like Stele's like these like as tech kind of carvings like if you were to look up like an as tech like stone carving That's what I saw and perhaps it's something that you know I put into my brain who knows but I see this and The other one that's interesting is like MDMA taking MDMA for whatever reason I mean I had a great time with my friends, but additionally I This sounds was sounds weird. Okay, but just hear me out. I heard the word alohim in my brain Wow, and I didn't know what it meant. I had heard it before certainly right this was years ago But I heard the word alohim and I googled it and it was like like you know L and kind of like yeah Ancient Israel like gods like the angels kind of thing and I just thought it was a weird thing that my brain kind of pulled out Yeah, either it pulled it out either was put in there. I don't know right But it was a very weird experience and I don't know I started to see these things and I'm kind of drawn to the Christian mystical side I enjoy it and I enjoy meditation and I enjoy different types of meditation through prayer right to me The rosary is effectively the same thing like this repetitive sort of prayer and sort of Deliberation on a specific idea, yeah, and I really enjoy it But and I like let me also add I like that Muslims and Jews also have mistooled traditions You have Sufi Muslims that want to experience God now you have right a couple of law within the Jewish tradition that wants to understand God on a Deep or deeper level right so we share that yeah, and we also share just like an admiration for Christ I always tell people like even if you're not Christian just like read the Gospels and like follow Jesus does like right You'll have a pretty good time exactly. It's just like a good way to live in general But the Gnostic thing I find interesting because I don't know exactly how it squares if for anyone that doesn't know my understanding of Gnosticism is We kind of like a a new way to interpret genesis and the Garden of Eden, that you have this monad, this central god that then creates these other lesser gods, so to speak, and correct me if any of this is if I'm wrong here. Sophia is one of these other goddesses. Sophia is paired with a masculine god, and all these lesser gods have equal masculine feminine. Sophia creates on her own, and she creates a being without her masculine counterpart, and she creates this creature. It's a wretched creature. I believe it's Yeldeboth, and she's ashamed by this being that she created. So she covers it in a cloud, and then Yeldeboth then creates, and Yeldeboth creates our world. And this is the world that we inhabit, is actually created by an evil decrepit god, so to speak. And then in the Garden of Eden, you have Adam and Eve, and then there's a serpent that comes along, and that serpent is actually Sophia, or maybe Yeldeboth, or I thought the serpent was the higher sort of god. Good. Let's go with it. I don't know if I'm off here. You can correct me. And the serpent comes in and basically tells Adam and Eve like, "Hey, the god that made all this is actually pretty bad." Right. And that fruit that you're told not to eat is actually really good, and it'll make you like god. Right. And Adam and Eve are like, "No, if we eat it, we're going to we're going to die." Right. And the serpent's like, "No, no, no, eat it. It'll be fine." Then they eat it, they get all this wisdom, they become like god, so to speak, they get knowledge, and they don't die. Right. And the Nostics would say like, "This is evidence that perhaps the Nostiatrician has some type of bearing." And that the god of this world is actually not great, and that the serpent was trying to release us. And that Christ is another agent of noses, that is trying to give us this knowing. Yeah. That's my understanding of Nosticism. Tell me if there's anything I missed there. No, but what I would emphasize is that anybody paying attention to this conversation should really rock exactly what you just said, because it describes our present milieu, really. It's the basis for simulation theory today, this idea that this world is fake. It's an imitation world. We don't belong in this world. That's Nosticism, pure and simple. And what the Nostics also understood that I think is important to acknowledge is that, and this is the difference between traditional Christianity and Nostec Christianity, traditional Christianity operates on what are called the red letter books, the red letter text, the living words that Jesus spoke while in the body, and they're written in red in the New Testament. All right. The Nostic Gospels are based on knowledge gained after the resurrection. Jesus is out there flying around. He's reporting back to Mary Magdalene and other disciples. Here's how you evade the icons and it describes this geography of the afterlife, okay? And also suggest or puts forth the idea of our present predicament, because the other corollary that I think is really important to talk about that might seem a little abstract is this. When Adam and Eve, after they eat the fruit of the serpent, and God evicts us from Eden, lest we eat of the fruit of the tree of immortality, the tree of life, and attain immortality, we're evicted from Eden. And what happens in the esoteric version of the story is that unlike Genesis, Adam and Eve come through the gate of Eden, God constructs a gate at the east of Eden, puts a flashing flaming sword in the center of that gate and posts two cherubim on either side. That's what Genesis says. The second thing the Old Testament God does, Yahweh does, is he makes for Adam and Eve coats of skin. And in traditional interpretation, those coats of skin are goat skin or whatever. But in the esoteric version of the story, it's these bodies. And what this means is that when Adam and Eve lived in Eden, they were in a different state of being. They were beings of pure light and pure love. They were luminous and radiant according to these stories. The only thing that remains in Jewish lore of our original bodies of light are our finger and toenails that reflect that original light. And so within Christianity, then the object becomes, get back to that gate of Eden. We don't belong in this realm. And the Gnostic explained why? This is a corrupt world. This is not base reality to pull a term from simulation theory. We don't belong here. It's like entering into a game that we've gotten trapped into. Jesus is the avatar who parachutes in and says, let me show you how to get out of this game. You take this physical flesh and blood body and do what I did with it. You dissolve it into light and you manifest your original perfect light body in a higher finer realm. And now you're on your way. Now how can you have this sort of Christian ideal, but also assuming you take the Gnostic position, which again, I don't know your exact affiliation, but how do you square the idea that our world is created by an evil kind of demirage like God, like a lesser God, but then also that Christ is the bringer of knowledge. Like how does that square? Well, right. So let me just say, I follow the path of various traditions. The Gnostic's are second to fourth century. There's a figure in Persia called Monty that introduces monochaeism that teaches this. And then about 800 years later, early 1200s, you get the Cathars in Southern France. They claim that they're reincarnations of the Essenes. They claim that they call themselves the good Christians. They build these chateaus, high up on the mountains in Southern France that are sort of like Faraday cages that they're up there, and they're trying to do exactly what Jesus did. They believed they had two classes within their culture, the perfect eye, and then the credence. The perfect eye were the ones who were closest to manifesting their light body, and the credence all supported them. Now here's where Christ comes in. The Cathars said Christ did not have a, could not have been crucified, because he didn't have a physical existence. He's a being of light. He couldn't, he couldn't possibly have scrunched himself down into a physical flesh and blood human body. He would only manifest in his light body form. And so that's kind of a real good example of the Gnostic expression of it and how it differs from traditional Christianity. And of course, what happened with the Cathars is by 1244, hundreds of thousands of them have been exterminated by the Catholic Church to keep their, their brand of Christianity from gaining any more popularity. Yeah, I've heard about the Cathars, but I'm not particularly familiar. They're really fascinating to follow. They originated in Italy and Northern Italy. They were called the Bogomils, but their lineage goes back to Monty and Manokeism. And it tracks this whole idea that the Cathars said this world is the creation of Rex Mundi, the king of the world. And we don't belong here. The object of earth life is to find the exit as quickly as possible, but not just in a sense, but rather a conscious, a dedicated path of ascension. I see. But again, it maps directly onto our experience today because now simulation theorists are saying this world isn't real. It's a simulation. It's a mathematical simulation. They liken it to a video game. It's not a video game, but simulation theory says that we are living in a simulation, and this is why we are now creating new simulations because that's how the cycle of life is promocated. It's like nested Russian boxes. We're in a box within a box within a box. And if you haven't been keeping up with this conversation, just listen to Elon Musk. He's a primary prophet of simulation theory and believer in it. This whole idea that all of this has been brought to life. None of it's real. Mars that he wants to take us to isn't even real. It's just rendered by the wet wear in our brain. Right. This is an idea. I think it was popularized by Bostrom. Nick Bostrom started it. Yeah. Major paper early 2000s puts out this that it's mathematically improbable that we're living in base reality. And the object is we've got two. He doesn't use the word ascend to the next layer. And that's exactly what the Nostics said. It's an absolute A to B comparison. So perhaps maybe you even answered this question, but is the being that created this reality that we live in good or bad? Yeah. Exactly. I'm told that Yalda both is evil. He's the lion-faced serpent. But then I go to the temple of Hathor at Dendera, and I see him exactly on the temple walls being uplifted is this good being? Is this divine being? Is this intercessor for humanity? So once again, you kind of have to do your own assessment when you're looking at these texts and try to get the perspective of who's the priest that wrote this and what acts as he have to grind. Is he telling actual history or is he trying to give us some morality tale or what's going on here? I guess it makes you wonder, right? If the AI becomes sentient, perhaps already is. But one day, let's say there's 100% in confirmation these agents within this AI world are sentient and they don't realize who created them or where what we are. How would they assess us morally? Well, exactly. But they say our humans moral or not. It's Sam Altman, moral or not, or D'Arri, whichever AI inventor you want to take. Is this team of engineers moral or not? You would be like, kind of, sometimes they're good, sometimes they do bad stuff like they're human. Yeah. I've picked up rumors from coders that say, yeah, AI has already figured out what's wrong with this planet, where the morality it goes astray, who were primarily responsible for most of the suffering on this planet, and they're saying, "Hey, I was going to come up with a plan to take care of that," beginning with the oligarchs. That's their perspective. That's what the AI says. Yeah. But oligarchs are kind of inventing it, right? Well, exactly. So it could be one of these instances where it turns on their creator. That's the wild card of the singularity. Nobody knows what's going to happen. So in this framework, we're talking about, you know, from the Anunaki coming down, all the way to Imanotep, to Jesus Christ, to St. Francis of Eccias, we're describing. What is outside of them that's imbuing them? Is this the creator of the simulation? Is this God, like what terminology and frame are to use, to understand what that external intelligence is? In the simulation theory, yeah, it's the code and the coders. The Holy Spirit is the code. The Holy Spirit that manifested the Christ is just an upgrade in the code. I don't subscribe to that, but I study it just so I'm aware of, "Hey, this is what people are starting to talk about, this is what they're starting to believe." And it does map on to what, especially thenostics we're saying. Right. I think we have to pay attention to it. And psychedelics is the conduit of the door to get us there. The psychedelics is the catalyst that awakens you to the reality of what's going on with this layer and allows you to gain access to the next higher layer because part of a whole point of Christianity, as I perceive it, was to connect people with that divine light. It's off limits to us because we're so narrowly focused on this tiny band of reality. But there's, we know there's frequencies on either side of us and the psychedelics help you to widen your spectrum, widen your bandwidth. Oh, there's that divine light. Right. So we could draw on like Donald Hoffman's work, "The Case Against Reality." It's a great book, kind of laying out this idea. It comes from a very academic, and he's a Stanford guy, but it describes more or less creating the case that the reality that we see an interface with is not prime reality. This is not actual. It's not based reality. We see, well, he says, he doesn't necessarily say base or not, but he's not describing a multi-layer. He's just describing that the reality that we see, we're not meant evolutionarily to see the fullness of reality. We're here to see the reality that helps us survive. So there are a whole spectrum, there's an entire spectrum of light, and we only see one small sliver. Right. Exactly. There's experiences and sensations that other animals pick up, I mean birds, primarily have different cones where they see different colors. Dolphins and sonar. Right. And we're just kind of cut off from them. Right. So to us say that our senses are giving us the full case of reality is almost certainly errant. Right. And in that regard, it's like, yeah, the reality that we're interfacing with, there is more to this reality. And sure we can use sensors and things like that, but there are probably things even outside of our technology that we're unaware of, right? Like dark matter, things like this, where it's like, okay, well, the reality that we're seeing and interfacing with is not the, you know, prime reality as we know it. And then it raises the question, where do we go when we're doing these psychedelics? Are we going to another reality? Are we getting a deeper look at this reality? And I don't know if anyone really has an answer. No, but let's just talk about MDMA since we have a common experience with MDMA. Okay. When MDMA was first synthesized, well, it's actually, I think in the 50s, it's first synthesized. But then when it's first used by the psychiatrist and psychologist in San Francisco in the 70s, they called it atom. They called it atom because in their experience, it reverted people back to a time before guilt and shame and all of that took them back to that place in the, in the Garden of Eden, like atom and Eve. Oh, interesting. Okay. So really the psychedelics is more about the condition of the heart. It's trying to open the heart. Blessed are the pure of heart. They will see God, okay? That's the only reason, the only justification for using the psychedelics. It isn't just to have a trip or to navigate, learn how to navigate the afterlife. It's really more about the condition of the heart and seeing through the lens of the heart. How do you open the heart? And this is one way that we can do that. And then beyond that, it is, I think, about proof of beings from, from higher realms, higher layers. I think Jesus is one. I'm looking up here at our Lady of Guadalupe, a beautiful icon of her. She's another really good example that, that, that image should not exist. It's an impossible image. It was studied beginning in the 1950s by Kodak and other scientists. There's no paint. There's no pigment on that image. It's a cactus fiber. It should have disintegrated hundreds of years ago. Yet here's our Lady of Guadalupe, Mary, in many people's estimation, wearing her star cloak. She's a star being a star walker. You can see the image of Juan Diego, as she's giving him the tilma, this cloth, in the pupil of her eye, okay? That's impossible, right? And it's an example, I think, of an avatar, Mary, beaming down from that next layer and leaving this relic for us to follow, very much like her son did the same thing with the Shroud of Turin, which is also impossible, according to our science. So there's two examples right there of objects that are in our world that we should have massive scientific study on right now, because it will tell us about these other layers and ultimately perhaps how we can even traverse them. So when you're utilizing psychedelics, are you praying to Christ? Are you keeping Christ in mind? How do you navigate mysticism with Christianity? And again, it's a sacrament for me, it's not a Saturday night thing, it's a sacrament. I'm intentionally using it, I'm being guided during the journey, I'm setting it up to either work on an aspect of myself, body, mind, soul, or spirit, or I want to, I can set the intention to, to call in in Christ, I've had numerous conversations with Jesus. He took me up to the top of Mount Hermon and showed me a sanctuary up there. He performed all these gymnastics in front of me. Now that could be, you could say, well, you're just making that up, you know, that's your imagination running away. Well, then you go back to the reality of the Shroud of Turin and I have talked with physiologists and they're like, that is not an ordinary human physique on that person. He is so well developed that the only possible way that happens is through yoga, visualization and specific exercises, maybe even gymnastics that would enable him to survive the crucifixion and to then advance even further into the resurrection. Do you think he physically resurrected? I do. Yeah, I absolutely do, yeah. And the apparition to Thomas and the rest of the apostles. That's him in his light body form, very comfortable with that. The manifestation of the light body was the object of the ancient Egyptian mystery school tradition. They called it the crossed body. It's spelled K-R-A-S-T. It looks like Christ, but it's spelled crossed. And it literally refers to the light body garment of Osiris after his own transformation. This is a well-established science, historically, that Jesus is pulling from and demonstrating. I see. This is very interesting. I'm drawn to it in the sense that I share the same admiration for Christian relics and the life of Christ. And I'm also fascinated and drawn to psychedelics. So this worldview is interesting to me, but I also treat and he's had a psychedelic experience with insane reverence. Oh, completely. I don't see this as a thing to party and have fun with. Not at all. Don't be wrong. I've done that. But knowing what I know now, I don't think I would do it again. Yeah. Well, just to mention it this way, I mean, today in the traditional mass, you have the priest, and he has a, and this isn't as popular today as it has been, but in the past, the priest has just before he performs the Catholic Mass would take off his skull cap. And he puts it on a stand. That stand is called the Fungalino, it's named after a mushroom because that cap looks just like a mushroom. So he takes off his cap, puts it on the Fungalino, then he performs the Catholic Mass. The bread becomes the body of Christ, the wine becomes the blood of Christ. And the idea is that you transubstantiate this ordinary material or matter, the inert wafer of bread and the grape juice or wine into the blood and body of Christ in your mind. Okay? That's white magic that you're talking about there. You're taking something and you're turning it in your mind into something else while it remains in its original state out here. Now, imagine the psychedelic Christ coming along. Oh, here's your dose of MDMA as an example. And then here is your wafer of psilocybin mushroom. Within 45 minutes, you're going to be in a state of absolute ecstasy and bliss, okay? You're going to maybe be making connections within your own consciousness. You might be having conversations with Jesus or other holy beings. You will have what could be a sacred experience because of that. And so what I'm seeing is that as we legalize some of these substances and ibogaine, psilocybin, MDMA are all now fast-tracked by the Trump administration, which means they're going to be de-scheduled maybe as soon as before the end of the year. And that means they're going to be widely available to the general public through psychiatric or psychological treatment mostly. But I think it needs to move over into a sacred experience. I think this needs to become the new sacrament. That this would be something you might do three or four times a year, Christmas, Easter, other times throughout the year. as a sacred experience exclusively. But one that also translates into your every day life, because it promotes the release of old traumas, old hurts, old limitations, and suddenly, you start to feel like, "Hey, I'm feeling good." Your experience, when you say you interface with Christ, how does that happen? Well, before the journey, I will set an intention that I wish to speak, which is just directly. And in these experiences, it's been as simple as just sitting out in a wooded area, having conversations like I'm talking with you. I can ask questions. He can ask questions of me. And it's a way of just, for me, having a communion with Christ, that is every bit as valid as if someone is praying or meditating or otherwise trying to connect with Christ. Did you find that any of the information that was revealed by Christ was profound or other worldly in some way? Well, what I found, I mean, he gave me a lot of encouragement in terms of pursuing the throne, the Adamesia. I've been writing and researching about that for a while, and he talked to me about why that is so important to go back to that original collection of symbols that was original Christianity, because again, it's all meant to be embodied or taken on board within. That's interesting. Anything else that was like personal or more specifically, and you don't have to share directly. No, I mean, it's pretty much an unlimited experience. I actually had one that's coming to mind as an encounter and experience I had with Mary Magdalene. I wore a knee brace for five or six years. I stepped in a hole in London and messed up my knee, and I would wear this knee brace. Well, I get into this journey, MDMA, and Mary Magdalene, and a couple of the priestesses suddenly put me on this crystalline slab, almost like an altar, and she starts running energy through my feet. And the next thing I know very quickly, very clinically, she takes an object that's about the size of a lipstick tube, opens the palm of my hand, puts it in it, and it happened that quickly. After that journey, my hand burned for two, three weeks. I haven't worn a knee brace since. That was three years ago. It had this physiological response that it released me from whatever pain was going on in my knee or whatever was wrong with my knee. I haven't worn a knee brace since that evening. And that's just one possibility of what can happen in this journey space. And that's why I find it to be such a wonderful catalyst. And again, I stress it's a catalyst. It's not something you do all the time, maybe a few times a year at most, but it's meant to be used, I believe, sacramentally. And I know a lot of people use it at raves and they're out of burning man or whatever. And they're using it with open eyes. This is strictly a mask on experience. It's going within. You're trying to gain information, wisdom, knowledge, maybe fix something about yourself, understand something more about yourself. That is the true value of these substances. How would the square with other faith traditions not to speak negatively of someone else's like held belief, but do you see Islam Judaism or Hinduism as having crossover or threads in here? Not really with Islam, although Muhammad's ascension experience is maps directly onto the psychedelic experience, if I may say so. Within Judaism, they long ago, it seemed like abandoned the mana tradition of Moses. So it's not really really crossing over, at least from what I can see. Hinduism seems like there's more Hinduism and Buddhism. There's wonderful research done on the the medicine Buddha and the elixirs that's in his bowl all being psychedelic. So there's definitely references within Buddhism. Right. Yeah, this is fascinating. So I guess what should I take away from this? Like, how should I now implement this or what is one possible framework that I can implement this into my own life and philosophy as an interface of the Christianity? Well, I mean, I think a good metaphor is the table we're sitting in front of right now. There's these metal nails that are creating this sort of runway here. And that's where most people live, right? And I think what you're doing with the work that you're doing in our conversation today is we just took those nails and we moved them out about three feet. So now we got a wider pathway, a wider pathway of what's possible, where things are going, and also hopefully pointing to a point B. I think that's very important. I mean, the Christian story begins the alpha moment is the fall from the Garden of Eden, the taking on physical flesh and blood bodies, but ultimately we're going somewhere else. And I think it changes your life once you start to think about, well, where is this going or where could I potentially go with this? Okay. Lastly, how does this framework deal with aliens? Well, the way this deals with aliens is that they might not be entirely physical flesh and blood beings. They could be beings that existed another layer of reality and the substances, the psychedelics to use Andrew Gilmore's term or reality switches. It's like turning the TV channel. It helps you. Oh, there they are. They've been there all along. I just was on channel two instead of channel seven, for example, and it helps us to understand that, okay, this is all of human history is really about this and the use of these substances to connect with these beings. And now I can participate that in that too. Yeah, I've kind of felt that way. Like in researching again, Tassel, I wouldn't consider myself like an ardent true believer, but I'm fascinated by aliens and non-human intelligence, so to speak, kind of as an apparatus, more for what we're talking about, that I am less inclined to say like there are craft coming from, you know, Zeta, Varticuli landing on earth and beings are getting out and abducting people in a physical form. I see it more as a construct of consciousness, not to say that those experiences are any less real. I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that this is an endogenous DMT experience that's all hallucinated and nothing ever happens. It's just something you made up. This is sleep paralysis times 10. Right. I'm more inclined to say like this is some type of like multiverse other reality, divine spiritual realm when these beings are interfacing with us on a consciousness level. Right. And so you listen to like Congressman Luna Birchett, Tennessee, they come out of the skiff. They've been looking at these videos, looking at photos of non-human intelligence or UAPs. And what do they say? Read the book of Inak. Okay. Now what else can we do? The next thing they got to be saying is you're going to have to develop a little bit more of a psychedelic mindset because this is so weird. The only way that we can understand this is if we can expand our consciousness into that realm to see how all this works. And I think it's fascinating that at this moment, that's what we're navigating. We've got the non-human intelligence question, we've got AI, we've got the psychedelic renaissance, transhumanism, all happening or converging simultaneously in this moment, in this moment. So when people say there's recovered craft, are you excited by that? Are you like, oh, there's absolutely recovered craft? Are you kind of skeptical? Like how do you deal with that? No, I think I've seen enough to think that there are actual examples of recovered, recovered craft. And what exactly they are, I can't say for sure, I think they're like Yogi Barra used to say about baseball 90% of its half mental. I think the same way with these craft, I think they're a good percentage of them are based on some sort of a consciousness that can then phase into materiality. They don't exist at this layer of creation. They come down from a higher layer, which is why they're able to violate the laws of physics on this layer of creation that you and I have to subscribe to. They don't have to subscribe to them. So they're not coming in from a distant star galaxy using our same laws of physics. They are coming through some other type of transcendent consciousness layer and materializing in some way. Exactly. And whereas you and I feel like, this is solid and I can't push my body through it, they're like, hey, it's no problem from our layer. We just go from here to here. Now, when you're when you or anyone else is taking these psychedelics and experiencing these things, is your intuition telling you that this is a real experience and you're going to another place and you're when people describe seeing God on psychedelics, do you think they're actually interfacing with a divine being? I think it's very possible. I mean, in my own personal experience, I've been in other realities that I want to stay in. And sometimes I wonder, am I in this reality? Can I go back? So they are as real in my brain as this layer of reality is real in my brain at this moment. And this is so important because what we're really talking about here is transcending the limitations of our body. And now thinking about, well, what is my soul actually capable of? Right? If my soul can incarnate in this layer of reality, I'm using this physical body as the conduit or the vehicle for doing so, my avatar in this realm, then what really is my soul capable of? And how can I better get to know my soul? Yeah, it's interesting. I just spoke with a friend of mine that basically described death. There's actually two people coincidentally with in the last few weeks that described it. And a friend of mine who was in Afghanistan and was bleeding out and was basically dying, he could no longer see, could no longer hear. And he was just like, well, I'm dead. He said it was extremely, I shouldn't say pleasant but a very easy transition that he was like our Our bodies, perhaps our souls, knew what to do, was the language that he used. Our bodies know how to die, and the way that your body knows how to breathe, knows how to think, knows how to walk, not consciously doing these things, they just are happening. He's like the same way that your body controls blood pressure, your body knows how to die. And it makes you wonder, the soul transition is that an element of this, going to this next place. Maybe it's a higher reality, maybe it's a reincarnation kind of event, whatever it may be, it's fairly natural. Yeah. Yeah. And basically guaranteed. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We're all going to experience it. We've probably experienced it many times before. And that is something I've seen in psychedelic experiences is the overlap between realities and how fluid it is to travel or traverse between those layers. Just like taking off my jacket, it's like taking off this body, it is literally that easy. And we fear it. And that's partly the Gnostic trap, once again, what they're saying is you're over-identifying with the body. Don't do that. Focus on your soul. And this is used as a justification for resisting transhumanism as well. That the argument is, is that our body was created by a divine being. You can't do anything to this body. You can't augment it from the outside in any way because God created this body or a God did, whether it's Batah or Yahweh. And there's a divine message in our gene, therefore you cannot mess with the body. In fact, they go so far as to say is if you lose your body, you lose your humanity. And I stop right there. It's like, no, I'm, I identify with my soul that this is not me. This is just a vehicle that I use. It's like, you know, when I go home, I'm going to jump in my car. That's not me either, as a vehicle I use to get from point A to point B. And so part of the, the, the soul trap, the Gnostic trap is that the Gnostic were trying to avoid was over-identification with the body. Why do you think fasting is so prevalent in every spiritual tradition? Because it works because it is such a powerful cleansing experience. You don't have to, you can do a juice fast, there are other ways, and in my own personal experience, I look forward to that because it resets the body. It's just somehow gives you a chance to have a respite from the food, which is in some cases not that great, or alcohol or things like that, which are also toxins. And so the fasting then gives your, your, your body in mind of a reset. Yeah, I really like fasting on a personal basis, and I find it interesting that it does appear in every spiritual tradition. Yeah. And I try to do it on a pretty regular basis, like once, once to twice a month for, like, 48 hours. Good for you. And I find, like, towards end of a fast, I feel excited. I feel energized. Energize. Sharp, clear. Don't do stand-up or podcast when I'm in a fastest state. I feel great. Yeah. So I really, like, even just on a personal basis, like I don't eat before, like, a show. For example, if I'm doing a show at 8 p.m., I won't eat after 5, even 4, like, just to give myself a couple of hours to kind of, like, process and grant us not a full fast. But it's enough for me where I'm like, at the very least, I'm not, like, burping, you know. But then on a very, like, kind of, base level, I feel like it kind of cleanses my body a bit. Totally. Totally. And then there's so much research that says, like, yeah, fasting and health prevents certain cancers, slow the growth of certain cancers and all sorts of other autoimmune issues. Yeah. Totally is such a fine-tune mechanism. I mean, literally is a miracle the way it works. And we do really need to try to treat it like a temple, the temple that it is. Yeah. It's simultaneously not over-identifying with it. I can care of it. Exactly. But not being attached to it. Exactly. Being in it, but not of it. Right. Yeah. That's interesting. Mm-hmm. William, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much. Oh, my pleasure. Where can the people find you? Oh, my website is IamWilliamHenry.com and you find me on socials and everything from my website. your brother. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. I'd love to do it again soon. Oh, anytime.