5. The Amidah | Avot 4

Welcome to the Wellness Scoop. You're weekly dose of health and wellness inspiration, and as always we're both here as your host, I'm Ella Mills. And I'm Rianna Lambert and after a decade in the wellness industry, we know how overwhelming and confusing health advice can be, and that's why we're both here with this podcast to cut through the noise and make healthier living simple fun and personal. So welcome guys, just a nice way to start. I'm running as an it-re, we have got so much to talk about. I was working last week on the script on this one, and it was what's happening, reading, like, oh my gosh, this is so funny. It's so many. I felt like exploding off the page, and I was trying to be like, "I want to talk about this, but we just know where we can fit it in." So let's see how we go. At the moment, this is what we're planning to have coming up in today's show, Rianna? Yes, so it is jam-packed, but we will see how much we can get through. So we have got, "Why Britain's Health is Flashing Warning Signs?" The school lunch gap that nobody's talking about. A smoke-free generation, I mean, is it really? Finally, vaping has just got a lot more expensive, and there's so much we can discuss on that. Social media bands for teens, or not really again, how effective is that actually going to be? And the truth behind the new cortisol craze. Yes, this whole cortisol face, cortisol belly. You know, it's been a huge amounts of time on social media, but when I do, that is targeting me. There's no tomorrow. I think it's wild what targets us, like different people, because I remember seeing it a long time ago, cortisol belly, but cortisol face, this is all new. I don't know if it's off the back of a Zempic face, but we'll go there. Or the clip start with, you're not fat. It's just cortisol. Oh my god. Sorry, I shouldn't laugh, because it is probably something that actually really impacts people, but it is just crazy what comes up at the moment online. It's wild. It is wild. How are you, though? We just had a long weekend in the UK. We get Monday off, which is pretty fun, although it makes Tuesday morning a little rough. How are you? How was there? Has your week been? What have you been doing? I bet you've always got so much to tell us. There is always a lot going on. I feel like the children are never in school. You feel like there's Easter holiday and then suddenly a bank holiday. Then you know there's May half term. So it is definitely a case of work by night for me again. I fell I kind back to my early graph days and play with children by day. I mean, that's the routine. Although I had my first ever Mexican brunch at a friend's house. Yeah, what did you eat? Absolutely delicious. So Laura, my friend is Colombian and she did this delicious spread and everything was brightly coloured. You know, she's got the most beautiful vibrant plates and she did lovely homemade salsa, black beans. We had avocado, we had eggs, we had wraps. It was just all the fresh herbs. And it was honestly so delicious and it reminded me why don't I do Mexican brunch ever? Like it's just something that I just do not do enough in my life. It was really 10 out of 10. I loved it. And then I finished writing a huge chunk, Ella, for a big project. A lot of writing this weekend. And David Attenborough turned a hundred Ella this weekend. I know my kids' school have been like, they're doing like a party for him. I love them. I mean, not for him, he's not coming. Just no, he's going to the girls. So long to go into their living room. No, but like they've been, since he went back to school after Easter, they've been there in the reception in the year once. I was super early, but they had this, especially by daughter reception, this whole focus on her and she's come home and she's like, we can never use plastic ever again. This plastic in the sea is killing the turtles. She's very. Love hero, that's what we call them. Oh my gosh, she's most empathetic past my web man. And she gets really, really upset. The idea of anything hurting animals. And so she was like, devastated. She couldn't believe what was going on. Which is so cute. And then they were making things out of recycled stuff. So she had to take in an empty milk cart in this morning. These are the things that you're like, you set alarms on my phone, why is it not going off? Oh yeah, did you take an empty milk cart and to make an elephant, obviously? Yeah, you know, like you do. I think it's really cool. So yeah, have you heard of David Asimbrough? Happy birthday, David. Attenborough, because I think what a legend. And how much he's done. Wow, I'm getting a conservation and the planet. I mean, raising awareness. Just the same as Jane Goodall, we sadly she passed this year and she was another incredible lady. So we've got these amazing voices inspiring us. And I've also started home workouts, Ella. Just like 20 minutes, once a week alongside the gym when I can't go and I haven't done that in several years. So maybe the sunny weather that we had just helped pick up my mood and inspired me a little bit. I love that. I told myself I'm going to do a home workout when we finish recording because we're remote today. So, she's all braided up for it. She's got her hair a little pigtail. She's ready to go. I'm so not ready to go. How was your weekend, Ella, aside from milk cartons? Do you know what? It's been a really odd week or two. Felt very kind of topsy-turvy, all sorts of like moving parts. But then we had such a nice weekend with friends. And it's that thing sometimes she's need that distraction. Anyway, my sister and her boyfriend stayed a weekend and we had different friends come with their babies and it was so sweet and lovely and very idealic being an extreme. So, we're kind of medium. Oh, that's good. How nice though, because usually Ella and I were like, "Oh, we had to do this. It's a matter. It can be quite manic." And actually, it's really lovely. And I really appreciate those times when there's nothing too dramatic. I know behind the scenes, we obviously will have a lot going on, but no drama. I've had lots of drama. Yeah, Ella, Ella's had a bit, but on a base level, we're doing okay. So, that is good. Ella, shall we move on to the health headlines that matter today? So, we have got one pickup before we go into our many, many, many headlines. And this is something that we found, which I actually, I knew about some of it. You know about all of it and it's really interesting. Obviously last week, we were talking about school food guidelines and I think our kind of honest assessment was great that we have some new guidelines in the UK, great that they're updated and they're inherently more positive. But they are guidelines. They're not requirements, which I think is really, to me, a really important point because, and I wanted to say it's just all wishful thinking, but it equally, you know, given what we're going to talk about later in the state or our collective health personally, I feel like it needs to be stricter than recommendations. But then there's been, because of all these conversations about our school meals, to in-depth reports about what other countries are doing and what they're doing well. And I think it really highlights the gap potentially. I mean, it's huge. I just feel like we can gather a lot of inspiration from other countries, because obviously nobody's perfect, but it's so interesting. You know, you get these headlines coming up, like there are four course meals in France served and dieticians in Japan that put school dinners in the UK to shame. And you know, it is true because the proposed changes that we have here, I mean, yes, they're cutting a lot of things out, which is good. Less sugar, you know, few of deep fried foods, adding, of course, more free, but we're still only spending £2.50 a meal on children. And that's interesting in itself, because the cost of living and what we know it now cost to feed people in this country and in France, school lunches are often structured in this four course meal way. So typically, they'll have vegetable starters. I mean, it makes sense to me, because you know, kids are going to eat their crudite, there's no different stuff. And then you have a main, they might have some cheese and dessert, which is more focused on fresh seasonal ingredients. People are basically given proper time. Kids have time, and I feel like we don't have enough time at schools as well at the moment, because how full the curriculum is to allow for a longer break in the afternoon for food. And I think it's treated in these other countries, I like culture, like it's part of the way they live life. They take their time over food. Here, we're lacking everything from the actual nutrition on the plate to how we associate how and why we eat and why it's important. Yeah, it's really interesting. And I'd be so curious what you guys listening think. It's definitely something that's always struck me as one of many, but kind of one of the more structural reasons behind the real challenge, because obviously the UK, along with the US, are particularly struggling with their health. And I think, you know, we can actually talk about this a little bit later, but it is important to say it's not actually the standard in every country to be going so backwards with their health, and we're doing here. We are, unfortunately, a little bit of an anomaly. And I think it's interesting that we don't have as strong a food culture as many other countries do. And we don't necessarily, and I'm not talking on an individual basis, but collectively have the same kind of respect for cooking and seasonal ingredients and something down. And I think the school lunches are interesting when you look as you said in France, where I think people would generally say, and obviously this is so generalist, there is a very strong food culture and a real respect for cooking and the produce used. And they're sitting down with this four-course meal, as though, again, you're embedding the sense that food is a key part of culture. And it's important. Exactly, in your life experience. Not just a rushed experience, which I feel like that's what children experience in canteens here, because in Japan, they're all the children nearly up for school bills. So it's like something they all just, they know that they're good. Japan is this extraordinary thing where you have a nutritionist in almost every school and then if that school doesn't have its own nutritionism. there'll be a nutritionist for that district. And the nutritionists, as far as I understand, and everything I've read and understood on there. So, over the years, these are obviously licensed professionals, but they're responsible for signing off and designing these daily meals and ensuring their balance, their fresh, and that they definitely meet the government recommendations. And I think that's so interesting, whereas what we're doing is we're like, here's some guidelines, but schools are so overstretched, really challenged, and then you want them to implement all of this. Without training support and extra money pumped into the chefs with the nutrition, because what they do in Japan is they're even, these people that Ella have mentioned, so the nutritionists or the professionals, they often teach classes about food, monitor food waste, help children actually understand what a healthy diet looks like, and across Europe, you know, we said we have £2.50 per meal, they're spending around five to eight pounds per meal. I mean, that in itself allows for better quality ingredients and when you zoom it all out, the pattern is clear, isn't it, that we are needing, I think, drastically to open our eyes. Yeah, and obviously all these things, not that you can't change your habit, but habits started young are hard to break, and so this is so important, and I think often, it's also this really interesting conversation of like, well, we can't afford to spend more in meals or we can't afford to employ these people to obviously menus, but then when you look at the economic cost of our health crisis and the billions and billions, it's costing, it's so enormous that actually these more kind of downstream early years interventions are actually interesting in terms of turning the tide and changing the trajectory, because otherwise, you know, the bills are picked up later on. Yeah, because this is preventative health and until we start looking forwards, it's not just because Ella and I have children, this is because we want to help you a nation. Yeah, because of the huge economic cost of our health crisis, you know, what children eat in schools actually ends up affecting everyone's tax that they pay, and the service they can have in the NHS, all the rest of it, when you really start putting it together. So it's very interesting, and it links on perfectly to our big juicy, oh my God, there's so much to talk about. I'd like number one. Oh no, actually, I nearly did an Instagram thing on it, and I thought, no, we're going to discuss it here on the Warnerski, where we have time for the nuance, the empathy, the kindness, but also the shock factor, because people in the UK spend few years in good health than a decade ago. Now, we had a similar headline last year that said, it's the first time that our generation are outliving their parents in some cases, which we discuss, but the Health Foundation says, Britain is going backwards compared with most other rich countries. So most of us over in the Western world, Britain's now can expect to live few years in good health, then they did a decade ago on average. We're only living healthfully until around 61 years old, which is about two years less than previously. Yeah, and that's two years that less in just a decade. So it's pretty quick in terms of the change. The think tank that produced this defined your healthy life expectancy, essentially, is that health span that people talk about, like how many years do you live in good health, so free of illness or in? Thinking, well, not being in pain. Not having chronic health conditions, et cetera. Not things that you're born with, of course. And obviously, this gives a much more complete picture of our national health and life expectancy, which I think is really important. And I think, as I said, one of the things that I feel was really important to highlight was that the UK is only one of five countries where this health span, these years of healthy life, has declined. And the rate of decline is so stark. So when this was done a decade ago, we ranked 14 out of 21 countries for healthy life expectancy, we're now 20th of 21 countries, only the US, a below us. It's just shocking, isn't it? That's just so, so shocking. And then you've got other countries like Japan, Norway, Spain. They're just seeing this steady improvement. Like their health span is getting better. Our health span is getting worse. Because whenever we try to do something good, we have nanny state arguments. And it's just, it's absolutely absurd that I get quite frustrated about it, which is why I'm glad we can talk. I honestly, rising up last week, like raging. And I think there's also two other caveats to say, A, this point that we are an anomaly. We know this is not the norm of most countries in terms of our health span getting worse. Number two, what they've shown is this is not driven by COVID, which I think people are very quick to say. And number three, our overall life expectancy has remained pretty stable. So again, it's not that this is really lifestyle factors that are changing this trajectory. And I think Kate's on point by the fact that we have this steep decline in other countries are having a positive growth of health span. Let's tell them Norway saw an increase from 70 to 71. And Japan, they're now living up to 73 in good health. They're going up, Ella, up, up, up. - Just a Japan's got a kind of solid decade on us. Now the other thing is absolutely crucial to talk about. That is so concerning. We obviously again, last week, when we were talking about school meals, we're talking about this discrepancy as well of the number of portions of vegetables or fiber. And take, for example, in affluent areas of the country versus more deprived areas. And this is so stark in this data. Now all of it isn't great. Like our health span is not going forward anywhere. But there's an almost 20 year gap in a health span between richer and poorer areas. So in the UK, which is disgusting. - In the UK. So some places like Richmond in London, which was topping the list of more affluent areas with good health span, that's looking at a health span of almost 70. And then some more deprived areas of the country are dropping down to 51. So this is so concerning as well. And the decline is, yeah, it's so significant that 90% of people in this country are suffering from illness before our state pension age, which is 68 to 2.8 million working age Britons now to ill to work. I mean, the scale is so huge. And as I said, it's like the economic impact of this is enormous. And interestingly, there was a quote from Dr Jennifer Dixon, who's the chief executive of the Health Foundation, who did this report, who said, these findings reveal a stark truth. The UK's health is going backwards. The lies on the dashboard are flashing red, we're the most obese country in Western Europe. Mental ill health has surged to unprecedented levels and more people than ever before are living with chronic health conditions. - Yet they don't pump any funds into nutrition education, getting our kids cooking, looking after us. But the way the state pension age is actually 66 and I think responding. - I'm sorry, I can't read. - No, I just want to be-- - I can't read, I can't read, sorry guys. - Don't want to add another few years to everyone listening, you know? But honestly, I think the government's already-- - No, the government's response made me even more cross. - I find it very, very, very distressing. - Yeah, so the Department of Health and Social Care said it is a disgrace that as a nation, we have become unhealthier over the last decade. Obviously, we all collectively agree with that, which is why we're committed to tackling health inequalities and building a healthier Britain. The government is already delivering radical measures. - Really? - Really? So just generational ban on smoking, yeah, that's great. And clamping down on junk food advertising targeted at kids to help parents raise the healthiest generation of children ever. - Oh, it makes me mad. - Makes me mad, Ella. - The idea, sorry, that we're gonna raise the healthiest generation ever by not letting junk food advertise on TV pre-9pm, but the brand can still show up with the specific products. Can't, I mean-- - And we remember how long it even took to get that tiny movement through. We've been pushing for years, bite back campaign for years, and they're taking credit for only a fraction of work that isn't-- - That's not gonna create the generation of healthy children. Like, it's awful. - It sort of boggles the mind. Like, the scale of the issue is so humongous. It's so alarming, exactly like the quote we just had, like the dashboard is flashing red. It's like SOS, oh my God, we have got to change. This is so crazy. - Yeah, you know what, we'll do. I've got it. We've got a generation here we are doing such a disservice to, we have a broken food culture. You go into a garage or a convenience store and the only thing you can buy is to UPFs and healthy foods getting more and more expensive. But I know what we'll just stop ads for food before I mention. That was love it. Like, what on earth? And I have worked in the food industry for almost 15 years. Like, it's not coming from there. Can tell you that now, like without regulation, it's just like what I have been with smoking. The food industry are not going to do this. This is not a charitable industry. This is a for-profit industry that one more profit, that is what drives them. You know, they can say all the right things that is not how this industry works. If we want change, we need regulation and proper regulation, not banning ads before 9 p.m. - And this is why we should be investing in cooking skills and good food because some people in this country and those lower income areas that are declining and declining in health, the only good male children will get as a school and our government can't even invest in that. I mean, I cannot. It's deeply, deeply upsetting. but it also, Jean-Nilette's use this as a reminder to well-niscute listeners too. that it's wonderful you're all here, and I think we're all in a sort of bubble, actually, because the people that need this information are probably the ones that aren't really listening here. And if we can just spread the word and try and educate and try and just emphasize that tiny changes can have big results. Honestly, the systemic change that is needed to get any meaningful action underway is magnificently huge. And while there have been commitments to move forward, which we are delighted about, we're not saying, I'm not. Well, I'm delighted there's some action, but we're not delighted that it's not enough and it is deeply upsetting. So I'm not delighted because I just think there's a moment to say, we need more. We do know. And I think up until the point of say, we're just giving recommendations and we're giving guidelines and we're saying, let's do more of this. Yes, that's fantastic. You know, it sounds so nice. And I get it on a piece of paper, like how great. But it's not working. And when something's not working to this scale, like you need drastic action. And drastic action just isn't banning ads before an IPA. I think all of that's laughable. Like, honestly, their response and that quote. And if that's what they have to say, it's absolutely laughable. We have to do something about the food system. You need quotas like you can only sell X percent of like sugary items, you know, X percent of every, like garage for core needs to have fresh food. And there has to be very strict. It's not to say like these, you know, sweets will become illegal. But it is like the proportionality is so wrong. When you work in the health and wellness industry, and I also just want to say one more thing on this before we move on, I also think this is obviously, it's this kind of separate issue, but it accepts its obviously such an adjacency. Where are our point now? Where the wellness industry is a multi trillion dollar industry. So McKinsey, value a two trillion. Other reports put it over six trillion. So these, you know, the wellness industry is enormous. And I just think that it's so ironic right there. If you look at kind of 2026 trends and what to watch, longevity is top of all these lists. And so we have this kind of complete irony of the fact that we are just getting sicker and sicker and having such a health crisis as this industry gets bigger and bigger and bigger and becomes multi trillion dollar with growth coming from longevity as our health span collectively declines. And I just look at this and I'm like, I also think we have to have, you know, as much as food manufacturers are doing the right thing and brands and all the rest of it. I don't think the wellness industry is doing the right thing, either because what they want is also to sell you stuff. Like everyone just wants to sell everyone stuff. It's like we'll talk about later with cortisol phase. It's like they just want to sell you a plant or a protocol or a gadget or something. And it's like, I know we live in a capitalist world. I know it's been a beneficiary of a capitalist world. Like I'm not trying to be a complete idealist here, but I do just think there's a moment where kind of profit comes before morality. And I think their wellness industry is tipping into that where it's kind of laughable that the trend of longevity when our health is getting worse. And when I was looking at this and like Forbes or Vogue or Financial Times, all of these, you know, huge publications talking about longevity as a trend to jaw. And yet, you know, what often they're referring to is like peptide stacks and longevity clinics, which cost thousands of pounds and biohacking. And it's like, what are we doing? But that's why we're here, everyone. So this is why the wellness scoop was created because of that huge decoctomy, because of this multi trillion, whatever value you just said, this crazy industry is worth. But when I think about nutrition, I separate it into camps because of that reason. Public health nutrition to me is not the wellness, the worried well, it's not that. Public health nutrition is the inequalities. It is getting basic victims and minerals into people that really aren't getting any. And that's why we've got a huge issue because nobody is linking between the bridge. There is no bridge or access between two into flowing areas. And equally, one is all about monetization and not health and the other is just completely and utterly flawed. So we are at a bit of a crisis point there. (birds chirping) Maybe we should move on to headline two, which is completely opposite to the overwhelmingly distressing headline we just discussed. But equally, we've got a bill banning, so people born after 2008 from buying tobacco. And that's gone through impalement. And I guess that is very positive, but it just feels so okay, because well, because to me, I just feel like this is something that we've known and needed since I was a teenager. - It's really positive, obviously, because what we can see is that it is possible to take action, but I think also it's kind of sad in a way if we step back because just looking at like some key dates in the smoking ban timeline, it was 1988, so many years ago, that the US ban smoking on domestic flights have less than two hours. It's always so crazy to me that you could have done that. They extended that to domestic flights five to six hours in 1990. 1995, Australia ban smoking on domestic flights, Prussia always banned it in 1997. - I know that's shocking, I can't get over it. - China ban smoking in the cockpit in 2017. - Whoa. - Apparently, it finalized a global shift, but I think what that shows is just using that as an example, like how long it's taken from realising that smoking was bad for you to packets then going behind the tails and not being branded and advertising up into the point when now we're actually going to stop a generation of children smoking like it's taken decades and decades and decades and decades and decades to get to this point. So it sort of feels like maybe it'll be our great-grandchildren who have regulation for their food. - Yeah, I mean, looking at it that way. So I remember the school I went to, all the, there were certain kids and they'd always smoke every single day in the toilets and they'd disappear. I was very fortunate not to be born into a smoking household. Actually, the thought of, I've never had a cigarette and makes me feel sick. I'm one of those like, Prudish, like as a singer, you know, I didn't want to smoke, but honestly, the thought of sitting on a plane surrounded by cigarette smoke, I just wouldn't book the flight. But it was cool. It was seen. If you look at films that back in the, what, 50s, 60s, you've got gris, you know, with John Travolta, living in John. - That's a good film. - Such a classic film. But that honestly, when you look back, you see this generational shift, it's really remarkable. So as of the first of January in 2009, you could never legally buy tobacco in the UK. - So if you're born after the first? - Born after it. I mean, 2009, yeah, fine. There are just relations that's better to become new law imminently. So ministers were positioning it as a major step to prevent, or obviously prevent, to put disease and ease pressure on the NHS. But the scale of the issue is huge because smoking, Allah, leads to 400,000 hospital admissions and 64,000 deaths every year in England alone. And it costs the NHS, three billion annually in treating tobacco-related illnesses. And of course, that stems also to cancer and heart disease. So actually, like you've just said, the wider economic cost is even bigger because it estimates to 21.3 billion to 27.6 billion a year. - Larger driven by the lost productivity. And I think that's what we often, not forget, but I don't always put two and two together. When we look at, for example, like investing in our children's education around food, when you look at the cost, yeah. So, you know, rough data being that it costs the NHS around three billion a year for tobacco-related illnesses, but it's costing the economy over 20 billion a year in lost productivity. When you put these numbers together and it's huge, so that's money that could be going into food education for children. - The economic effect of our declining health and the increasing number of people who can't work as a result of it, it's absolutely enormous. And it's sort of, it's hard to see how it won't cripple us. And I think that's one of the reasons why to me, this feels like an emergency because even if you're really healthy and that's great, the collective impact of all of this is absolutely enormous and can't be underestimated. But this is when I look at it and I'm like, "It is possible to make change. We can see this." And I think this is fantastic. Like, our children, it will be illegal for our children to ever buy cigarettes, which is-- - Thank goodness. - Yeah, it's amazing. - I just have just assumed as well that it was already illegal. And that's how outrageous it is. You just assume that it's something children shouldn't be doing now, which is fantastic. But like I said, only when I was young, it was the cool thing for people to do. - And so the other good thing that's happened as well, because obviously vaping then has become so huge and vaping also has a big impact on health. The cost of that is going to go up massively now, which is amazing. So there's going to be a new flat rate tag. So I think the estimates is that little 10 mil vape bottle, the cost of it could go up from around like four pounds to over six pounds, which obviously that happened with smoking and it just became also quite an unaffordable habit. So that's quite interesting. So it also, I think there's more power as well to regulate the products in like controls on flavours and packaging, but it's also like, how did we phase out smoking and bring in vaping? - No, what's so interesting with vaping, I've got several chains of thought here. First of all, the first one you said, Ella, just before, you said, you know, this is an example of a prevention first policy that we could see with food, hopefully, if the government actually did something. - Well, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren. - Yeah, I think you know. - And of course today, we so positive and I'm just so happy. side I'm my heart is breaking and I try and maintain this like I was I will lose the world to keep doing the work I do I have to control something inside my head. But it's an example of a prevention first policy at scale that does work. So why can't we do this to feed like Ella said? But what you just said before is that why vaping why even bring it in and I think people genuinely believe just like a Zampic of weight loss injections on the similar thread of thought is that people believed well it's it's a lesser of two evils just like people think sweetness should are the lesser of two evils of sugar and it doesn't work like that and I think we're starting to realize that that is there's so many examples that you can cherry pick I was shown this awful children's product last week at the Eloid of Cine because I shared it. I was just so horrified that instead of sugary cereal they were then saying all this sweet and a packed cereal that's no seed or an all the pseudoscience marketing on the front is a better alternative it's just another issue we're throwing into the pile like vaping is that seems to be what happens before we get actionable change. I mean this funky mood I said at the top but I mean it's cynical frame of mind but I just look at it and I'm like I just feel like we're just over complicating everything right. Of course we are but it is and again it's the more problems we can create the more solutions we can sell you as opposed to just being like should we just eat porridge. The more collagen we can sell the more peptides the more supplements you can buy I mean the more demonization of everything's toxic honestly all you need to do is eat a healthy balanced diet walk a bit more. We just add into it it's like let's be more stressed so we need more things to manage our stress you know let's add more yeah pressure to your play and then your need you won't sleep as much then we need to sell you some product to help you with your sleep and your age fastest or we need to sell you some more stuff for that and it's like gosh it's so amazing isn't it and I just I don't know I just need to be cracking down on it rather than creating these half interim solutions that still aren't great in the marketing and selling them that that's the real crux isn't it is happening everywhere. And obviously you know look nothing's about to kind of change at scale but so I think the question is like how do you have a kind of community change because that feels like today the most impactful way to start making a shift is in in your community and the people around us and like widening that circle as you go because I think a national intervention so off the cards at the moment but it is a question of like how how do we do that and I I don't mean this in like a fear mongering or a scary way because it's not really our style either of us but equally it's like I do read some of these headlines and think you know well maybe we should be shocked into action like maybe we should be shocked into needing to change our lives but then it's so hard to change your life because the way the world's currently set up means you're consistently going against the status quo. And the small voices like I would actually consider what we're saying Ella we're small voices actually because the main narrative and the people that get the clickbait the traction any kind of word in about health are extremists there are ones that are pedal pushing incorrect narratives look at what's happened in America when we look at the food guidance they have and you know the beeftallow conversation that we've had before I actually had an example of why I don't normally speak out unless it's on the wireless keep about things over the weekend that I'm sure you'd have seen Ella cannot wait Min Ella I have a lunch day booked in I'm very excited about it. It's three first day next Monday and the day this comes out so have a day read. Thanks Fable we're going to put the worlds to write. Oh wait we've got so much to discuss but I tend to make a habit of trying underneath interviews where I see pseudoscientific information being pedal pushed on mainstream TV I try and always say I wouldn't it be great if a health professional could get on to discuss this rather than an influencer if it's related you know to nutrition and diet and I had another health professional who's a man obviously wouldn't be of well actually maybe it would have been a worm come at me and say yeah but your friends would joe wicks I was saying what an out yeah instead of um supporting me and saying yeah health professional should be on the show by the way I had nothing to do with Joe they just obviously plucked Joe's name out of thin air because I'm an acquaintance I don't even have Joe's phone on my phone I actually feel for Joe because I feel like he's just been tarnished with this brush but instead of supporting one another even in my industry they're all in it for clickbait there's so many people that sadly just want traction and views online and it's amazing to see I'm not the sort of person that would publicly share this individual's name you know um I actually sent them a private message to say do you think what you just did was kind or helpful or remotely helpful to anybody and they just didn't reply why were you such a capacitor no but I'm not the things I should have more courage maybe I should be like those um social media accounts that bash everybody you know it's not fun is it like you know ultimately and you know I'm get you guys listening will feel this like your life is so full you've got such a busy day ahead of you there'll be all sorts of blips and things that come up and you know hopefully it's your best day of the week but you know life is a lot and so I think we want to feel empowered and we want to feel inspired and we want to feel inherently positive we need that influence life it's difficult enough you know especially you then open the news and like it is tough isn't it but but then which is why I'm always like I really want to be positive but then I read these kind of headlines and I'm like we also have to be honest you know we can kind of be positive we can be positive we can be positive we can be empowering we're like yes guys let's do this up into a point where you're like god this is not good no the things that make it on to TV are not good at the moment and actually moving on to headline three there are elements of positivity within this headline two let's pluck it out somehow under 16s face social media restrictions after government climb down so this is one where the headlines look better than the reality again but the reality does kind of mean next to nothing as it stands however I'm still hopeful that it means it's going to change yeah the headlines felt so positive the reality is is anything but I know okay well basically obviously there's been this huge conversation this is a global conversation it's happening in so many different countries about social media use particularly with children and often these legislation discussions are talking about under 16s obviously Australia has done a full ban other places in the world like to follow suit there has been huge pressure on our government to do something quite similar particularly looking about concerns of the kind of obviously huge mental health the addictive design the exposure time for content now this bill not to get super technical about the whole thing but the bill has been going back and forth between House of Commons and House of Lords and what happened was a deadlock essentially now peers in the House of Lords have been repeatedly pushing for much stronger action including a full ban and they want that to take shape within the next 12 months this bill has gone back and forth four times and you also got big celebrity voices now getting behind this bill so I saw Simon Cowell and his wife speaking about on social media super nanny Joe Frost and the House of Lords have been pushing this through the deadlock came in the House of Commons so from yeah our kind of MPs and the current government basically after four rounds back and forth the bill was at risk of running out of time and so the government had to kind of back down essentially so what's been agreed to is although the headlines are making it look like there's a ban there's not a ban it's a pretty vague situation where essentially the government have now we are legally binding commitment to introduce some form of age or functionality restrictions for under 16s it is not a ban it could have things like daily time limits it could have restriction on features like infinite scroll but that then has to go through all the various different platforms like matter and ticktock auto plays stronger age verification could have digital curfews so when I say I mean sex and nothing it's not because I'm actually just so cynical today it's because basically it is not a ban the House of Commons did not vote for the ban the government stopped that why do you think that is can I just say it's immensely frustrating when the public are asking clearly asking for something and I guess it's because they just hadn't figured out how that plays out right I don't know I think is very odd I think everyone's scared of being called nanny stay this is just it once again we don't seem to be able to follow through with a single thing got I'm joining you I'm on the cynical fence but yeah I think that's an important one to show and I think again to me it comes back to the huge frustration if there is such an enormous health issue at play here and clearly social media for children is inherently negative just like smoking is inherently negative for children and why we can't protect a generation and this whole idea that they're creating the healthiest generation and you look at what they're exposed to on TV you look at what they're exposed to on the internet you look at their diets and their kind of consumption in general in life I don't mean just food consumption their total consumption we are doing anything but raising the healthiest generation of children and it's just a country and the impact in decades to come will be absolute enormous so but guys I've got a fun headline for us because I couldn't leave you that needed something else even though we were full and I'm telling you what it's official if you eat chips or someone else's plate they taste better oh my goodness so it says chip stolen from someone else's plate do taste better in a study french fries were rated as crispy as salty and more delicious when taking from another person portion. There were 120 participants given the exact same prize of four occasions and the only difference seller was how they got them. Yeah, exactly. And in two of the times they were taken from someone else's plate. And then people in the study had to rate the chips or fries from one to nine. And the stolen ones consistently scored higher for being yeah, a crispy and more delicious. 40% more enjoyable, which is so good. And also the more daring it felt to take the chips from someone else's plate, the better they tasted. Psychology you'd add its best, Ella. Isn't that so fun? Anyway, I was like after all of this. And also the funny because sometimes when we're doing briefs, I'm like, all we've got to get a thing more positive in here. Let's move this headline to next week. But these are all kind of search like time-sensitive headlines. You know, they're not really relevant in like three weeks time the same way that I was like, we got to put more then but let's just all acknowledge that someone else's chips taste better. Because do you know when you always take I always take peep things or people's twice a thing to people's say, I mean like my husband, my kids, my mom, like as people always do that thing that like does it taste better? And you're like, I swear to you it does. Well, it's a thing. If you taste better when I don't have to cook it, I still believe that honestly when someone does cook you a delicious meal, I feel like it's the psychological release of everything involved, perhaps any slight tension in preparation. So yes, that was interesting. Well, let's move on to what's trending in wellness. There's so much trending in wellness and maybe so much to chat about. But this one is something you guys have asked about a little bit. I'm seeing everywhere lots of headlines around it as well. I'm not actually on TikTok or I don't use TikTok, but I went in a head quite a lot of fun watching this at all these videos. And basically the trend is on TikTok. Because I think you've like trend of Sergio Granny, you have like trending sounds on TikTok and this is how they all start. They go, you're not fat. You've just got quarter saw face. Oh god. So it's everywhere right now. Influences, all of a sudden, focus on cortisol. Without really, I'm probably assuming understanding what cortisol actually is. But here they've coined particularly cortisol face and cortisol belly as being explanations of potential weight gain and puffiness. And we thought, you know, as kind of a headline, it kind of sums up perfectly while social media is obsessed with cortisol or headline because it's true. Ella's algorithms full of it. I haven't actually had it yet, Ella. But it says nothing's more stressful than this cortisol craze. That's a piece that ran in the observer. And they added quote in there, which I think was so good. It was, if you're reading this and thinking, I am an adult living in 2026. I have a stressful job and sometimes I forget to text back. Donald Trump keeps bombing Iran. I wake up at 2am because I can't remember if I turn the strain is off. It still can't perfect this firefly post. Of course, I'm stressed. And I just thought it was a good summary of like, of course, most of us are stressed. Like you can't fall petrol right now. The food is astronomically expensive. Everything's a bit rubbish. Wake up to more headlines about bombing. I mean, like, it's really, it's a pretty stressful world. You're not weird to be stressed. Anyway, so I think this is this interesting thing. I'm talking about something quite normal, something going on a lot. And then kind of pathologizing it so that we can tell you stuff. We obviously have talked about cortisol before. It's an essential hormone released by adrenal glands. It's normal. It will sort of wakes you up in the morning. It regulates and supports metabolism. And it's used in all sorts of things like we need it. cortisol, not the villain. Obviously, now if you have chronic stress, your cortisol levels can get higher. That can become a bit challenging. That's linked to poor health. If you have chronic stress, there are the outcomes and studies that link to the things we don't want to really go there with today. But in short, you know, can you have a portable face? No, it isn't a recognised medical term. The idea of it is kind of absolutely insane. It's just like Ella says with the little toe thing where we discuss that quite a lot. You know, cortisol doesn't just manifest and pile the hormone in one particular area. And you've just realized I was going to discuss this on the extra scoop. I bought a gadget. My first ever influenced gadget. Unaware that it's probably linked to this trend. It was just because on Thursday. Yeah, I mean, okay, we'll discuss this on Thursday. We go away. I know. Essentially, there are some things that can happen. Some people, it's very rare have conditions like Cushing syndrome, which can cause around a puffy a face. But alongside serious health complications like blood, hyper pressure, bone loss, bone marrow density loss. And that is rare and clinical. But what most of us are experiencing every single day is definitely not. Whereas cortisol belly, I think Ella is something that has been discussed in the media for many, many years. And there are elements of truth underlying that. But cortisol face, again, there are no underlying elements of truth. It's kind of come from nowhere. Exactly. Now, obviously, if you stayed up late and you went for drinks with friends, you might wake up and be a little bit puffy. That's not cortisol face. That's just normal physiological response to life. And you can do your shower type things. And that can all work. But it's not cortisol face. It's not like, because I think then you just start getting worried. It's a bit like when people are saying, you're not fat, you have cortisol face. It's all like, you're not ugly or stressed. It's like, no, no, no. This is not right. Like, it's hard. Do you know the whole thing is very, very odd. You know, people have fillers in their face to try and create a puffy or round of faces they age. And then you've got the younger generations that don't like it and want to get rid of the extra fat pocket storage that they have. So remember cortisol is a stressful moment. It's released by adrenal glands in response to stress. It's protective. It helps us to release energy quickly in our body when we need it. But it also increases our blood sugar levels. And that's so we can respond to things quickly. We've got energy ready to burn, ready to move. And of course, chronic elevations in cortisol do influence our appetite. Some people when they're stressed, you'll find they either turn to food or they turn away from food. And a lot of that psychological, but some of it is a biological response as well. They can heighten those feelings of hunger and drive a preference for high palatable foods because the thing you want when you're stressed, the fastest source of energy isn't your broccoli. It's going to be your thing in a packet that tastes absolutely delicious. Your favorite biscuit or packet crisps, whatever it may be. But cortisol does have an interaction with dopamine signaling. So that is our feel good area where these foods do provide a temporary sense of release. And that's why we've got relationships with food and habits that come from cortisol. I just wanted to explain that because stress can lead to weight gain for that variety of reasons. And it's not that your body suddenly decides I'm going to store it around your middle or on your face in that particular way. But it's habitual overeating over time with cortisol contributing to that that can cause. It can be difficult for your body to shift the weight. But you can't choose where, guys, I'm sorry. We can't choose if it's our face or our legs or our arms. What I saw was just all these videos, yes, starting with you're not fat, you have cortisol face or whatever. That's awful. And also you're not fat. Can we get over fat-shaming people? I cannot bear it. But then it was like so common cortisol and get my six-week diet. Oh, I see. That's what they're selling. I was going to ask you, what do you sell from that? So they're obviously unqualified people giving out diet plans again or I don't know, face massage plan. It's lymphatic drainage. Just various different kind of protocols and approaches. Look, stress does impact our weight long-term and it does impact our health. But cortisol face is a trend that can definitely go away. It's not real. There's a bit more nuance in belly but it's not as simple as it was made out to be. Anyway, I just thought they were quite interesting trends, not great ones. No, they're not great ones because remember cortisol also does, we do feel it and responses and are hyper-famous as well there's areas in the brain. There's lots of different things to think about here. So it's a clear example of how wellness trends can take something real over-simplify it, twist it upside down, kind of mishmash it all and try and profit at the end of it. Yeah, and I'm just thinking like as we get to the end of our nose, like what's the positive to leave at this time? And you don't need to do it. You don't need to do it. We've had a different episode, everyone. I think it's good to mix it up. Yeah, and I think that the take-home to me is that ultimately, I think we have to be really supportive of one another. And I think we also have to be quite cynical of all of these different industries because there's a tipping point in which they do become focused more on kind of commercial success than necessarily moving the dialogue on your health. And I don't say that again to be like really, really cynical. But I, you know, cortisol faces a great example of that. Like it's not a thing. And so, yes, if you're eating really bad in, you're not really sleeping or the rest of it over time, you might see it in your face. But the simplicity of it in order to sell a protocol just like doesn't add up. And I think it is that challenge of kind of ultimately what we need is we need to base it. And the basics aren't very snappy. We just help each other with it. We do. We're here altogether. And that's what I think the space is about. So thank you for listening, everybody. And I've got my little gadget, Chervion, first. day so you know. Are you going to cook anything nice this week, Ray or do like what are your kind of foundational things you're going to do for your well-being this week? Me right now, I just need to take it day by day. I've got to be honest. This is the kind of zone that I'm surviving in right now. But I try and maximize when I'm at home a lot more. So do some meal prep. I've got some good meal prep videos coming. I'm making a lot of bars, oat bars at the moment to snack on for energy, yeah. I mean, try and spend a lot of time outside where I can. Yeah, I think that's a really good one. So yeah, thank you for listening and we cannot wait to see you all on Thursday. Do let us know how you feel today's episode was honestly. Please do give us your feedback. Do rate us on Apple. We never say that enough because we have to fight this algorithm. Pop us some five stars or likes if you like. And it's Ruth Bradley. So happy birthday. Ray. Give me a light for the birthday. Have a great day everyone. Bye. 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