The Alien in Dr. Jonathan Reed's Freezer

[Music] These are the panic breaths of a man who just killed an alien. In October 1996, a man who goes by the name Dr. Jonathan Reed went on a hike with his dog Susie when to his horror. Susie encounters a strange creature. According to Reed, this creature violently tears his companion in half, front of his eyes. Blinded by rage, Reed grabs the nearest blunt object and with one swift blow, the stick connects with the being's head. Both Reed and the supposed ET being collapse. What follows is a tale that involves discovering alien technology, hiding a body, running from hitmen and according to Reed, an ongoing communication with an alien race. This is by far the most debated, contentious, and polarizing case in UFO history. Mention Reed's name to two researchers and you'll start a fight. Some claim the footage is "objective evidence" of ET contact. While others believe it was all made up for attention. I travel to Seattle to sit down with Reed for nearly three hours to find out for myself, and as you'll see, there are definitely parts of the story that don't seem to add up. The claims are just two grandiose, even his name is a pseudonym which he gave himself to allegedly protect his identity, but protected from what exactly, from the people he claims that are after him or to protect his real identity, which may or may not live up to the academic pedigree he's presented. Of course, I'm skeptical, that goes without saying. But what if even one percent of what he is alleging is true? What if he did confronts an alien in the woods? Is that not worth pursuing? And as always, I urge my viewers to simply suspend their disbelief. For the next few hours, look beyond the skeptical confines we've created for ourselves. Allow your level of conviction to "flutchy" and see if anything lands. And I'll see you on the other side. And stay tuned to the end of the video for an Area 52 exclusive. Dr. Reed shares with us for the very first time an object allegedly made from the metal found at the site. Alright, we are here with Dr. Jonathan Reed. I'm just watching the documentary "Contact in the Woods". But again, the proof was only free. The entity that I call Freddie is in constant communication with me. It has to do with things that are happening now and that are going to be happening soon. I've been following your story for quite a while. As many people on the internet have, I'm sure they've reached out or tried to reach out to you. Before we get into your story, because I do want to get into that, because there are some details that I'm curious about and I want to see if there's anything else that we can glean from that. But before we do, first of all, I want to say thank you for meeting me. Oh, it's my pleasure. It's an honor to meet you and thank you for taking the time to listen. Absolutely. And if there's something you can gain from that or share with other people with your audience, I sincerely appreciate it. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you, Jonathan. There's a lot to this story. There's a lot to unpack from not only the encounter. Obviously, that's probably the crux of all of this, but even I think there might be more to unpack with just the repercussions in the aftermath of what was caused by that encounter. Not just for you, psychologically speaking, maybe medically speaking, but also for those around you, and so many more who've tried to look into this case, which is why I guess you've been so reluctant in coming forward after initially coming out. Why now? Why come out now? What's the impetus for that? Well, let me go back a little bit and explain that in the beginning, way back in 1996 when I first came out publicly, I did that with Art Bell. I didn't know what an Art Bell was at the time, but I learned very quickly who he was and what he did, and he had a very large audience, 25 million close to. And for way back then, I guess that was pretty good number because that was previous to the internet. It was right as the internet was catching on. But I learned that he was very amicable and had a lot of, should we say, background information on others that had similar situations. And so that he could empathize, he could give me some solace to talk with him, and we actually became friends until his death, which is very unfortunate. But what I wanted to say regarding the background is the first 10 years of this from '96, you know, on, I talked to everybody. I did every podcast, in fact they didn't call them podcasts then, but I did all that kind of stuff. I would even put myself on the, what I call the circus, where you're out in the public, you go to the conferences, you know, and they poke and prod you and get you to do all these things. I knew that that needed to be done, I knew to set the stage, so to speak, but I got very tired of it because I learned early on that a lot of the people that are involved in those kind of arenas aren't there for the sincerity of the information. They're there to make a quick buck, or they're there to draw the crowd to the circus, you know, and I didn't want to be part of that circus. I just didn't really fit into that. I was a medical doctor, you know, I wasn't just standing around, you know, waiting for a place to talk. Then I got tired really quickly of that, and I went through all of the negatives that it is associated with that, and it burns you out, it tires you out. And I started to think, you know, what is this about? I mean, this event changed my life forever, but why aren't people recognizing that? Why aren't people seeing the reality to it? And there were some, there were some who actually got on board and wanted me to talk to them and helped me. For instance, Wendell Stevens, Bob Dean, Don Wear, even John Mack, all got together at one point, and with me, it was in Laugh Flint, Nevada, and said, we would like you to do a textbook case examination. And this is what we want. This is what we want to see, because the crowd is getting little bits and pieces of this, but they wanted something more solid, and that made sense to me. And so that's what we set out to do. So one of their people, Dan Mack of Way Senior from Delaware, was a long time, move on, associate, investigator, and part of the J Heineck part, and he was all involved with that. - Too fuss. - Yes. And so they said, this will be our point, man. This is who's going to, you know, ride shotgun on you and go out and talk to people, and I said, fine, that's fine. As long as we keep the dignity to the people we're talking with, because I don't want them to be abused, because that already had happened early on with other people. So he set out to do this investigation, which I figured would take, you know, a week or so. It took two years of him walking in my shoes. I mean, him hardly ever going home. I mean, literally sleeping where I slept for months. So he got to see a lot of the things that nobody does see. He got to see the coming, going of Freddie, the alien. [BLANK_AUDIO] see the use of the artifact on my arm sitting this close to each other with four other people and the two other people in the room, excuse me. Who are those people? They were appointed guardians of the device that I appointed. They were ex-military, like green beret type, Dan Backerboy is a green beret, also paratrooper, close small arms, all kinds of things, but I had to trust them with keeping this thing safe because early on where I was staying was just ransacked. People would come in and just destroy the place, like 10 minutes after I left to go eat breakfast. And at the time we were living in old buildings, old businesses that were kind of derelict. But anyway, we could go to be safe where we could rig up electricity and some telephone lines and stuff. I mean, most of it was illegal, but that was how we had to do it. And how you still kind of thought about it today? And how I still do it, right? I mean, I've got some guys who are so into technology, I mean, I can barely do an email, but these guys have been hired by the FBI and CIA to work on their intelligence stuff. And they've donated their time to me for over 20 years, and won't take any money. So I mean- You trust these people? With my life. And they've proved it. They've stood in front of bullets and cars and everything else and pushed me out of the way. How many times have you been- 14 people since I became public are dead because they protected me because they chose to be with me. And you can ask any of my team members, you know, I mean, it's true. When I wear that every day, I have to realize that these people gave their life up to me. And I can't ever, you know, get past that. I mean, that's just something that's a reality. I mean, my parents were intimidated. My elderly parents so bad that they died within a couple of months each other. And I know it was because of this. From stress. Yeah. Yeah. Even believable stress. I mean, not everything from calling on the phone night and day, 24 hours a day to burning effigies in their lawn. And these people were in their late 70s. Well, I can't stress enough. I don't even like to talk about it. How bad this had gotten in my life. I mean, I never thought anybody would do anything like this to people. I mean, I thought this just doesn't happen, you know, maybe in a movie or a book or something, but it does. And it has gone on for more than 25 years. That's not something you'd ask for. No. And I- And I've tried my best to not put myself in harm's way. To eliminate everything I could. But I'm like a mole. I mean, I live a nomadic life. I don't have a home. I don't have an address. I mean, they've gone through everything I have even saved time after time after time. And, you know, death is death. It's a real thing. It's not artificial. When people get hurt very seriously, if not dead, you know, I've been shot three separate times. I've been beat up probably eight times, taken out, thrown in a van, beat unconscious, filled full heroin, and thrown out on the road. And I asked the question, why? Why does it have to be negative? Why can't it be positive? And that's the question I've continued to ask. Why is this information have to be hidden? Why won't the government at least talk about it? Well, they are now. But I have my own views on that, which are very different. It's a drip, drip, drip situation. It's all being controlled. And you'll never have full disclosure like this. Not like this. Yeah. I think that they've, you know, I do believe that the people who are releasing this type of information, like they believe they're doing a good thing, I do believe like they have good intentions. I just think that they're being strung along by some other person and it keeps going on until you get anxious. I would agree with you. What I know is, I mean, before any of this happened, you would say, oh, Jonathan's a skeptic. He didn't believe in anything. Really? And I was. But I'll tell you, in 30 years, I've learned everything I could learn about other cases, about other situations, other people. Why this is going on? My own question is why? Because I would think in science, as I was a scientist, more or less, we would want to know new discoveries. We would want to share them and use them to benefit us. What's your best guess as to why they don't want to share that? What's your best hypothesis on that, do you have to? Well I know something that I've never talked about and I will talk about it today. There's never going to happen like you and I would like it to. And the reason is a broad amount of reasons, but the number one is control. It's all about control. You have to control the populace. If you'd lose control of the populace, you'd be lost. And the government sees it that way in every shape or form. But there's a side to this that I've learned because of my involvement with this little alien I meant that I call Freddie. I've had conversations with him about probably everything you could imagine for ongoing 30 years. He is told me things that I'm not even sure how to address, how to understand. Because a lot of it is very fragmented and I've tried to ask the questions, was that mean, how does that apply to me, to you, to our society? And it's hard to get a perfect answer on that. But if somebody said, like you have, do I have an idea? I do have an idea that I've never talked about. And what that is is that there are things that we don't understand, we humans, we do not understand because we only know what we've been able to learn in this box, the box of understanding. The way we look at science, the way we look at physics in our world is very compartmentalized. And it's not, it doesn't address the whole issue. The whole issue is so vast that we're probably looking at one percent, scientifically, when there's 99 percent that we have no idea how to deal with. Part of that issue, if you boil it down, has to do with consciousness, that our consciousness, that we have in our brain, we think it's individual. We think it's just us for me, for you. But it's a collective energy and it's broadly projected and amplified greatly away from us. It's almost like another source of energy. The other races of aliens are very interested in that, from multiple reasons, when it possibly could be used as a weapon, because there are a lot of beings that are out there that are not kind, that are only war-like and aggressive. They aren't the little gray ones that walk up to us and pat us on the head, and even some of them are dangerous. in our world. human beings races. We have multiple races of human beings. Black, white, green, yellow, red, but they're all human beings. They all basically work the same. Well, in the world of the grays, we'll call them. They're identified. These little gray creatures that have real big eyes and big heads and little bodies. There's a whole bunch of races of those. They're not all gentle. Now, Freddie is a gray. He doesn't look exactly like the typical gray, but I've never seen any photographs other than my own. And there's a reason for that. And we can deal with that. Now, first of all, Freddie can't be photographed when he's conscious. All the pictures I have, I thought he was dead. I laid him out. I took pictures, 35 millimeter. I took video. I assumed he was dead because he wasn't breathing. There was no pulse. There's nothing that I could see. And then three days later, after I put him in my freezer, he woke up and started screaming at me. And I knew he wasn't dead. After that, during the last 25 years, he's told me, "You can't photograph me because of my technology. We're not supposed to be visible to you. We're not supposed to interact with you." And people say, "Well, is that like the prime directive, you know, the Star Trek?" And more or less it is because they supposedly can't interfere with our normal progress. Now, have they? Yes, they have. We've been interfered with a lot over the centuries. This isn't just a small section at time. It's enormous. They've been coming here forever. And they have said to me, "We have tuned you up." And I said, "What does that mean?" And they explained that that's DNA enhancement. They have changed our DNA over the centuries, making us smarter, making us able to comprehend more information. But just little amounts at a little time, not all at once. What do you surmise is the sort of end goal to that? Where do they want us to be like them? What do you think about that? I believe that it's a twofold situation. And the first one I would reference is they want to continue their life. They don't want to have their race extinguished. Part of doing this is blending their DNA with ours. Like hybridization. Yes. Living here. I'm on this. Living everywhere. Now, other details that you don't know, Freddie is a hybrid. He's a hybrid. Yes. Now, I had the fortunate, or unfortunate ability when I thought he was dead. I took tissue samples and blood samples and brain cell samples and bone samples of him. Because he had a hole in his head that big that I, you know, put in his head. And I took that to somebody at the University of Washington Medical Center who was the head pathologist. Somebody I knew that I had associated with, just a friend. And I said, "I've got this stuff and I want to know what it is." Well, where did you find it? I found it in the woods. And I don't know what it is. And that's all I told him. And he knew I was a straight shooter. And he said, "Okay, I'll tell you whatever I find." And in those days, DNA extraction and analysis took about a week. Because it wasn't computerized at all. It was hands-on, you know, chemistry. And so that's what he did. And he called me about a week later and said, "Johnson, I need to talk to you. Come in if you can to the office so I made my way in." And he said, "Where did you get this?" And I said, "Well, I told you I found it in the woods." And he said, "Well, I'm going to tell you what I found." And then I need to know if I can publish this. And I said, "Okay." And he said, "Well, first of all, I found four or six chromosomes, same as you and I have." Same as humans have, 46 chromosomes. But he said, "Nine pair of them were not human." They could only reference them in close proximity to dolphin and sea tortoise as the closest I could find. Nothing you'd find in the woods. And then he said, "You know, Jonathan, we humans don't have the ability to blend DNA. We don't have that ability." Now remember, this was back in 96. And only since have we recently come up with something called CRISPR and a few other things. But that still doesn't blend it. That just identifies it and lets the move some things. But it doesn't create a complete milkshake. So what happened to this scientist, this doctor that had these results? He said, "Here's all the paperwork. This is what I've done. I want to run this test again. I want to run some of the samples." And he said, "I want to run it again. But I'd like to publish this because it's a new species. It's brand new." And this guy was really accredited. I mean, he had his due diligence as a real serious professional. Did you be willing to give up his name? Yeah. But I will tell you first that three days after I met with him and he gave me this stuff, somebody came into his office and shot him in the head and killed him. And then the person killed himself. Within 10 minutes, this was coming from his secretary. A whole bunch of men came in that were like military and confiscated all his files, his paper files, all his computers, and everything and said, "You know, this is part of the investigation." Well then 15 minutes later the police arrived. These guys got there before the police. They took everything out of his home also. They just broke into his home and took his wife's computers, his computer, everything. This guy's name is Roger Hagget, H-A-G-G-E-T-M-D. You can find all of the information that's a newspaper's friend about his death, about him working at the University of Washington. I mean, he worked three floors below where I worked. So they killed him and they took everything. And then they started intimidating and/or killing other people who worked in his lab that helped to do this analysis. There's only one of them left. And he's left the country and doesn't want to be harassed at all. And I don't blame him. This is how far this has gone. This is how serious this has gone. The whole year was announced. Well it was right around 2000. So you've been holding on to the DNA for several years at that point? Frozen. Yeah. I still have some things in hiding. DNA? And just like now, just like talking to you about some of this. Yeah. Some of it needs to be known. I believe the reason disclosure is happening in a drip, drip, drip form now is because they were pushed to the brink, not because they wanted to disclose. Enforcing a hand. They're still only giving us little tiny bits and pieces. I mean, video from the front end of a jet fighter. There's a spot of white light. I mean, I believe them. I agree with them. I know what they're trying to do. But I also know the dark side of it. They're not giving us what I'm going to tell you. And what I'm going to tell you is there's an issue with giving disclosure. And it's not disclosure of photographs and videotapes of white spots. It's disclosure of information that if disclosure happens in the full. If we do give, if the government gives an opens the door to the Pandora's box, it probably never will be able to be closed again. And that will change our. total concept of human life in an instant. We will become slaves to this. And I don't know if that means actual slaves or slaves to the idea of it. Is that something you've been told? Yes. By them. By Freddie. By Freddie? Yes. And I've verified that with his superiors. Wow. Which are different than Freddie. Really? They're beings of energy. Just pulsating energy like angels. Huge. And I've stood in front of them and they've told me this and more. But what I mean is and there's no short way of saying this is if we allow them into our consciousness by creating a full disclosure, if we humans allow that and they become our conscious state, we can never close that door again. They will take over. They want really. They want our soul energy. So the government is essentially not disclosing because they know part of that to be true. It's almost for our own protection. Yes. Well, that's a twist. Not something we've heard of before. Now, I'm not the only one saying this because I've heard other people reference things about this. I'm not the only one. Okay. This isn't just about me. It's about all of us. All of us understanding that we need to evolve. We humans need to evolve. And part of that is our consciousness expanding that. Now, that doesn't mean we're all going to become angels. It probably just means we're going to become more intelligent and to be able to deal with more complicated risk in understanding about life. But it also has a dark side and the dark side is if we let them in, they'll take over because they're far worse, if they're million years more advanced than we are. Okay. We have no concept of that kind of reality. And as soon as our consciousness opens up to the idea of them being here, that creates a tunnel. That seems to be the tunnel that we would be unlocking. And then there's no stopping it. No, well, the only stopping it would be if we were able to intimidate them to rid themselves of us. But we are like cattle or sheep who have very little knowledge of what's on the other side of that fence. Yeah. I agree. And for somebody to give us a little bit of advice and say, you don't want to go there. You know, as much as we know, we just know we don't want to go there. But that sounds like somebody trying to keep you away from the truth. Well, there you go. So it's a catch 22. It's a catch 22 situation. But I know that I didn't ask for these kind of details. So this is what I was told. It took me. It took me a long time to understand what he was trying to convey. But once I did, I verified to him. And this is a communication issue. I talk with him. He tells me things. I ask him questions about what he's told me, then he verifies that. So it's an ongoing, you know, plus and minus scenario. And then I did that with his superiors too. And they assured me that it was correct. Wow. So this is a much bigger issue than just, you know, lights in the sky or clear photographs. This is a whole other concept that we've really not even begun to consider. And if there are people who have considered it, and I believe there are some, I believe that's why the government is going drip, drip, drip. And that's why they're trying to prevent you from putting that information out. I would assume that. That's another part of that. Well, that might be a good reason. Well, my end sentence would be there may be a very good reason why we can't have disclosure. I would agree with that. I think that there is definitely there are things. And this makes sense to me what you're saying. But there are things that for sure we don't have any concept of. Right. And even having a concept of it might be, you know, a deterrent might be something not good for us to have. I believe that's true. You know, like I said, it took me a couple of weeks to really digest what I was being told. And then for me to turn it around so that I could kind of begin to understand it. Because it's complex. These people are very complex. And when I say people, I'm talking about, you know, aliens. Yeah. I've known this little guy long enough, where I don't call him an alien anymore. He's kind of a friend. He's a person. It's still unnerving to see him just pop into your world and then leave. Because that's what he does. I'm not the only one that's seen him. There's a lot of other people that have witnessed him, clearly firsthand, you know, not photographs, but right in their house. And a bunch of those people have come out and talked about it. Now, now the negative people say, oh, well, we've never heard anything about that. Well, if you look at my new documentary, which everybody should say, there's a guy in the beginning that says that I told him early on. I said, you know, there's a possibility that once Freddie knows I've visited you, he may show up in your house, in your business. And he won't hurt you. He's curious and he's timid, but you'll know. And a lot of people have called me and said, you know, you're right. And all I can say is not all of them are bad. You know, there is much trying to figure out us as we try to figure out them. But they are from our extreme future. I tried to figure out if there's a concept of why that is. And all I can estimate is in some ways, they're trying to prevent some obstacles that they've seen, that we have to get over. And they don't want us to end. They don't want our civilization to end. So they're trying to, in some ways, prevent us from making some serious mistakes, which unfortunately we do from 10 to 10. That checks out with a lot of the contact e-cases as well. Okay. But that's one thing I haven't talked about with anybody. Well, I appreciate you opening up about that. But I think it's serious. I think we need to understand how that concept facilitates in our world. Yeah. And what it means because it doesn't mean just unlocking the closet and letting all the pictures out. Sure. It has a whole nother reference to our whole civilization. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things where, you know, you hear about this in the phenomenon specifically. But as soon as you start observing them, then they begin observing you almost as if you're opening that door. That's right. Yeah. That's exactly true. I mean, I didn't say this too early on. But, you know, I have a few artifacts that are tangible, that are real, like the metal cuff that I call the link artifact. I've asked them time and time again, please take this back. Please take it from me. I don't want the responsibility to have this because somebody's going to steal it because they're constantly trying to steal it. And they basically don't answer that question when I say, please take it back. And I was told once that that it's a good responsibility to have this. But you don't know where it is. Is that correct? Physically today. Yes. I do not know where it is. It's been given to someone who's taken care of it. Who's given it to somebody else or given it to somebody else. And I don't know what that combination is. But would you want to retrieve it? You'd have access to it? I would say within 24 to 48 hours, I could retrieve it. So what have I done that before? You've done that. Yes. And you have, so you have this artifact, perhaps some other artifacts, DNA, perhaps. Do you have some type of, and I'd assume yes, but do you have some type of dead man switch? And do you think that that's something that's keeping you alive today? Well, the last time they killed somebody, I made a decision with it for myself, and that I was going to try to prevent that from ever happening again, even if it meant to end of my life. So I set up what you call a dead man switch or a fail safe. And I proved to the dark government agents that harass me, that that in fact exists, that it's tangible, that I will drop one of them in the lap of the media with all the information I have, even it meant to demise of me. And I proved to them that I would do that because of something they did. And since then, they haven't pushed that far. So you have people around you that are fully aware of this and how to activate that switch, that is something happened to you. I have a group of guys who have followed me for years that I call my team. They call themselves team-read. They're all ex-patriots. They're all caring. And they will shoot somebody before they ask any questions. And they've had to do that often. They've taken people out. Yes. Yes. Wow. People that have come for you or them or people that have just-- Let me tell you a story. Sure. There was a car running after me and another guy. We were out doing some, I don't know, errands. And this car kept getting closer and closer and finally bumped the back of our car, which was a SUV. And so we knew at that point these are not good guys. So the driver and me, I was the pastor, took off, trying to escape, trying to get away from them. And they kept smashing into the back of our car. And I said, "Just stop. Just pull over and stop." And he did. They hit our car, flipped it over upside down. I got hurt. And the driver debt was debt. I didn't know at the time that they had shot us with a rifle. And they killed the driver. And my head was messed up. I figured some metal and stuff hit my head. And later it was figured out that I had been shot too. And that? Yes. There's photographs of it. There's testimonials of going to the hospital, everything. But I was so angry that I got out and I've never told this story. I got out and one of their guys was in front of their car. I got in their car and drove over him. And then backed up and drove over him again. And I was insane at the time. Because my friend was dead. They just killed my friend. I saw it. I was, you know, three feet away from him. And this stuff makes you crazy. Okay? I can only hold back so much. And let it go. And I let go a lot. But I'd had enough. I didn't care anymore. And I wanted these people dead. One guy just took off running. We never caught him. But, you know, a rage takes over. You know, adrenaline takes over. And people say, well, how are you able to do this? Or how did you do? I don't know. I was just crazy. You know, when I hit Freddie in the forest in the woods the first time, I didn't think about it. I was, I had this branch, this six-foot-long branch that I'd picked up on the trail right there to untangle my dog, Susie, from like another wild animal. That's what I thought she was involved with. But when I jumped down and I was face to face, what was going on, I saw her body being torn apart. I mean, from the jaw, her head ripped right out of her backbone. Blood everywhere. On me, everywhere. And I just went crazy. I didn't think about it. I didn't plan it. I just took this thing and hid him as hard as I could. Trying to stop the action. Even thinking, Susie, Susie, let go. And she was already gone. My mind couldn't handle it. And, and, you know, people say, oh, well, this was so courageous. It was not courageous. It was insanity. It was a rage that took over. This is what I've had to deal with. And it, and it waxes and wanes, you know, for a while there'll be nothing. Then all of a sudden, I can't go anywhere. There's people following me in a car, chasing me down, you know, and pointing their finger, you know. You need to stop. Yeah. How old was Susie? Seven years old. Golden Retriever. Great dog. So everywhere with me. I mean, the kids loved her that I, my patients dealt. I mean, she free rang in the hospital. She'd get on the elevator, go down somebody, bring her back up, you know, I mean, great dog. Absolutely smart as a whip. Smarter than me. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the forest was a different scenario because I lived in the city. And you can't really let your dog run in the city, you know, off the leash. And you shouldn't. But so we'd go to the forest. And there were a couple of places I like to go. And we'd been there a bunch of times. Wasn't new. Is old. We knew where we were. And you could let her go. And she'd run, you know, 100 yards and then she'd come back. And if I told her, like one day I, we were walking, and there was a deer with her baby walking, you know, 300 feet in front of us. And I said, Susie. And she stopped instantly and wouldn't move until I told her to come back. But she knew, she knew. And she was an orphan to me. She just ended up with my front porch when she was just a puppy, you know, I didn't teach her all this stuff. And do you think if it wasn't for Susie, you'd never run into Freddy? No. So maybe I know this. People say, well, how do you think this happened? I don't know because it's, it wasn't firsthand information. It's been second himter information from Freddy and from other people, you know, going around the world three times with this story talking to people who have had other events happen to them. I have concluded that Susie was protecting me. Something in the scenario of Freddy, Susie saw as an enemy. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And she was protecting me from that. And probably as it went on very quickly escalating, then she knew for sure it was a threat. And her whole issue of being involved the way she was. She was not an aggressive attack dog, you know, she wasn't a doberman or, you know, she was a lovely soul, I would say that loved everything. I mean, if some of the, if somebody broke into my house, she'd probably help them, you know, find this stuff, you know. But nevertheless, this is the scenario I was dealt with. I was handed. And as I jumped into that scene, she was being thrown back and forth and back and forth so fast that all I could see was this blur of her body. I, you can't imagine how fast this thing was throwing her back and forth with one hand, I can't move that fast. You know how fast a paint checker moves? You know what a paint checker is in the hardware store. And that's what you were looking at. Yes. That's what I was looking at. And then it stopped for a second, just for a second, and he turned his head and looked at me with this terrible look. And then it all started again. So that's what I jumped down to see. And then all of a sudden, Suzy on the end of his arm, I thought he had her, like by the throat, part of his suit, which was black, developed an appendage that came up over the time. top of her head and grabbed the sound of Susie and tore it apart like it was another arm. So it was the suit, the technology of the suit. Now whether Freddie had control over that, I don't know. But I know that's what eventually killed her, that action. And then her body hanging in the air stopped for a second, a hole opened up in her chest like a drain, and all of her first started to go into that hole, inside out, into that and then disappeared and then went poof, and it was a big pile, a white ash on the ground. That was it. And that all happened within a couple of seconds. I mean, people think I had time to do something, but time I jumped down and she was gone, was under 10 seconds. And that at that point when all this happened poof, she's an ash is at that point that you said. But I just screamed and crashed through and hit him. Just like that. I mean, I almost missed him because just I'm just not an athlete. You might have been in the same situation, Susie. Well, that's what was going through my mind, was that it's killing her, it'll kill me. I'm here. I got to do something, you know, tried to call her off, thinking she had grabbed his arm. But by the time I said that, she was gone. And so I know that after this happened, you were in a sort of suppressed state. It would seem almost like paralyzed. Oh, no. No, I was crippled with sickness and he fell to the ground as I hit him. And then I instantly fell to the ground, throwing up, gasping for breath, feeling like I was having a heart attack. No muscle control in my legs or my arms at all completely released. My bowels, my urine, everything was just, I was a mess. Focus. I couldn't move. I didn't know what had happened. I mean, I hit that, but I'm feeling all this pain. That didn't make any sense to me, but yet I couldn't catch my breath. I could not get enough air to calm myself down. I laid there face to face, three feet away for over 40 minutes, 40 to 45 minutes because I couldn't move. I couldn't even push away. Do you think that was due to either the technology, the suit, the being, or do you think that was your own trauma or was it a mix of both? I'll be honest with you. Do I think I had trauma? Oh, yeah. Did I have trauma from the event of Freddie and seeing him kill my dog? Yes. I had lots of trauma. Do I think I went into shock a little bit? Do I think the physical ailments of my body were caused by this shock? No. No. They were so evident and so persistent. I thought I was going to die on the ground, 40 minutes before I even could move. I thought it was like radiation poisoning. That's what everything I had ever read about somebody having this kind of crippling sickness where all of your insides just relax, just expose, just let go. That's the best analogy I could find of what this felt like. This went on, like I said, for 45 minutes till finally I was able to crawl three or four feet and then stop because I was exhausted. I couldn't breathe. It was like there was no air getting in my lungs. I know what that's like. I'm asthmatic. I dealt with that as a kid, but this is the worst scenario that you could ever imagine. You know, I spoke to Mario Woods, I don't know if you're familiar with Mario. He used to be a police security police officer in the Air Force and he guarded, he was at Ellsworth Air Force base in the mid-70s and he guarded one of the silos where they had these ICBMs and this massive what he describes like a Walmart-sized orb was there and just hanging there and him and his partner were kind of frozen locked in and he describes kind of the same symptoms. He's like the air, I couldn't breathe. I was gasping. I was frozen. I couldn't move and it was terrifying and he was just begging in his mind for air and that's when it kind of let go and it's at that moment that he turned his head and he saw the beings come towards him and then he passed out. Is there ever a smell also associated with this and what was that smell like? Could you describe it? Well, when I jumped down, you know, about six feet from where I was on the path or I couldn't see Susie to where I jumped down through the brush and there I was face to face with what was going on. I smelled this odor and the best analogy I can give you is it smelled like rotting fruit or rotting meat. Something rotting, definitely, a pungent, very putrid, but almost a little bit of a sweet smell, which is that rotting like ammonia or no, no, it's different than that. Like, yeah, okay, like because usually when things, when there is like some type of infection or something type of rot, it usually causes a sweeter sense. In my internship, you know, I had dealt with people in the emergency rooms and I had seen almost everything come in and I'd seen, you know, people who were derelict and didn't have any kind of health issue or a clean issue and, you know, I had smelled kind of that smell before or if somebody had a wound that had never been dealt with, it smells a certain way. It's very hard to express, explain. And do you think that was caused by the opening of the skull from the being? No. I think that's just how they smell. His smell, because everything ever since when he arrives to materialize in your house, you smell it. You smell it ahead of time before he materializes within a minute before and it's unmistakable what it is. I mean, it's his calling card, I call it, but as a joke, that you smell it and then it's always there. Well, how long do you smell it right before or like two minutes, within a minute? Oh my gosh. Now, let me explain again, I said, I've taken this story around the world several times, talked with hundreds and hundreds of people and people who I know are in the know. In other words, they're not bullshitting me. They'll say, oh, I know that smell and it possibly comes from, this is interesting. If you take and put your body or a human body or some kind of flesh in and out of a magnetic field, a high magnetic field, it will cause an odor to start with. And if you do it enough, it'll cause this pungent death smell really. So therefore, other people have told me, this sounds like what you were smelling. Now, meaning that when he materializes from his dimension to our dimension, this is causing his flesh to be stressed to the point where it's causing a problem and leaving this smell. Wow. That's interesting. It's a symptom of their traveling between dimensions. Right. Now, keep that thought when I've gone with him, when he's taken me from my house, which he has within without the artifact, when I return, sometimes I smell too. You're not as bad, but I've smelled my arm and I could smell it. Yeah. So it has something to do with going between dimension or going through this huge magnetic field. Wow. Okay. So you're lying there face to face with this thing. I can't even imagine-- Can't move. 45 minutes. They can ask you to feel. Realizing that I have soiled myself beyond belief. Yeah. That's one. I mean, think about that. Think how you'd feel just that happening instantly. And then not being able to breathe, feeling like somebody's standing on my back. I mean, I was faced down and I couldn't do this. I couldn't push up because my arms just had no strength to them for like 45 minutes. five minutes, and then finally I was able to push away and kind of crawl a little bit and push away as it was getting easier. Not the breathing part, but just my body. I moved away from him, and then I heard a sound coming through the forest. It was this low ebbing harmonic tone. As low as you could possibly imagine, maybe not even audible. The harmonic was so low, I could feel it in my body, I could feel it, I could feel it making my body, and I thought, in my mind I thought, it's a hiker. Somebody's got a boom box and they're walking their dog or something, and I need help. So I crawled up next to a tree, kind of crawled up, fell down, ripped my shirt. There was nobody, but the sound was there. It was coming from somewhere, and I looked around best I could, and I saw through this little grove of trees, and I say they were like six, eight feet high fern, an evergreen tree. There were probably five of them between me and this thing that was about 75 feet away, and it was a black floating, marquee diamond land on its side that was 10 to 12 feet long, 2 and a half feet high, and about 3 and a half feet wide. I stumbled, fell, stumbled, fell, going toward this thing, and it's in a valley, it was kind of in a little valley, you know, like a four foot valley of ferns. The ferns were all even, but the ground wasn't. So when I got up to it, I actually slipped and fell underneath it and put my hand on it to stop myself from falling. And I burned the entire pad off my hand, just like I was putting it on dry ice. It was so cold, it just pulled the skin right off my hand. And I got up and I stood there and I pushed it, and for a second, for a brief, brief second, I felt like I'm inside of something, I'm inside of something, a big, black, dark room, like an airplane hanger, and way off in the distance, I could see little lights. And I started to see if they're an airplane hanger or I'm outside looking across water at the other side where their lights are. I don't know, and I was back outside, I mean, just like that. Now, for years, I've talked about this and other people have said, oh, well, I know what it is. This happened to me too. He said, he said, they thought you were the alien because you were the only thing moving. And they were like taking care of them. This machine was taking care watching for movement or breathing or whatever they were looking for. You were the only thing moving around and you touched it. And they sucked you in and then they realized, wrong guy, and they threw me out. Okay. Now, that's what I was told. That's not what I remember. Sure. Okay. But it's possible. Yeah. It's possible. Yeah. The shape is really interesting to this thing as well. Like, when you see it on video, it does appear a lot smaller than like 12 feet though, but that might just be because of the brush. Okay. Let me tell you how we determined it was 12 feet. My team composed of all these ex-patriots and other people who are really smart, especially in geometry and tech stuff, said, oh, we can figure out exactly how big it is. You have pictures, beautiful pictures. He says, you stood in that alley in that exact space and they took a picture of you. Well, we'll just take the height of you and turn it sideways and put it up next to the other picture. Sure. Yeah. So it was between 10 and 12 feet long. Twice as long as you were. And two and a half feet high and three and a half feet wide. So, and, you know, that's the shape. Yeah. I had my measurements wrong. That's okay. It's all right. We'll fix it. We'll fix it in post. Yeah. Okay. But that's how I figured this stuff out. It's not because I was told by Freddie or anything. He gives me no information about his technology. You reverse engineer it based on the images that you had. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. You had, because, okay, this was, so you had your camera on you. You had your film camera. I had two cameras with me in my pack. So you had a 35 millimeter. I had a 35 millimeter Nikon camera. Great. Fast lens. Yeah. Really fast lens. What brand? What type of Nikon do you remember? Yeah. It's an EM. It's an EM. An EM. Yeah. It was the one that was the first one that they had the shutter was electrically controlled to the light condition. Right. Okay. And then you could turn that off. But yeah. Yeah. It was the first one of those kind. Very cool. Yeah. So I mean, I pretty much knew that stuff, you know. And people say, well, how could you stand? You know, when you were going crazy in the woods, how could you stand so still? I didn't. I didn't. I laid down on the ground. I put my arms on the ground with my camera like this, pushing it against my forehead. And that acted as a tripod. That stabilizes it long enough. The shutter speed was between a quarter of a second and a half a second. Every canopy was really dense. Yeah. So it was so in a lot of light. So it was blocking a lot of light. It was in the afternoon, you know. At that time, it was like three o'clock. I had a watch on mechanical watch, which stopped at two fifty three. I mean, just welded itself stopped. Do you still have that watch? Uh-huh. Is it still at two fifty three? Oh, yeah. I even took it to a jeweler and they opened the back and they said, well, it's kind of like it's melted on the inside, not on the outside on the inside, some of the gears. Where? Yeah. So at this point, you've been laying down, you, you, you, you get away. Put my shelf up. I try to crawl away, get up, fall down, get up, fall down, walk over to where this thing was making this sound. Once I touched it, the sound changed. The sound became more comforting, less low, deep resonance, because I could actually feel it inside me. It was irritating and I've never felt anything like that before, but it was bizarre. Nevertheless, I was in a bizarre mode. Got up, fell down, touched this thing, pulled the ferns out from under it with another stick that was laying there on the ground so that I could maybe take pictures of it and also, I wanted to know there's nothing to hear and it's this high off the ground. Yeah. You want to make sure that you can see it. No, my mind is, is just going, why, how, how is this happening? How is this, you know, all my paradigm was gone as far as my reality goes. As far as thinking, this must be this, this must be this. I couldn't figure it out, which is extremely disturbing. You know, you can't logically rationalize it out. And that just is a crippling thing in itself. So I'm still having a hard time breathing. I think, I got to drink some water. There's water in my pack. I had a canteen, okay, I know where my pack is. It's right six feet up from where the body was. I crawled there, tried not to look, crawled up, sat there with my pack, took my cameras out of my pack first because they were on top, got to the water, drank the water, and I'm looking at the cameras, thinking, my cameras. I know how to work those. That makes sense. That gives me some comfort because I know how to do that. So I thought, okay, I could take, I could take a picture of this, this thing, this black thing. I could do that, you know. And so that was my methodology was it felt good, it felt comforting. It wasn't like a brilliant stroke. It was just reality. Yeah, something to ground you. Exactly. Exactly. A lot of people don't understand that. Yeah, you just want, you just want to hold on to reality at some point. All right. And when I got done taking the role of film, I crawled back to where my pack was, put the camera down and picked up the little video recorder, which was also Nikon, but it was a Nikon Sony rebranded. Eight millimeter, tiny, small, had a one inch black and white viewfinder. Black and white. Not the big thing you fold out, you know, but one inch. And so I'm breathing so hard, I can't even look through that thing. So I'm holding it like waste level, running, you know, try not to fall down, try not to, you know, and it's on. And I mean, you can even hear me saying, you know, is it in there? Is it, you know, I don't know if it's there. Where is it, you know, I'm just talking to myself. Yeah, here you said like, come on, come on. Right. Because it would distort. I could hear it distort, you know, and the little viewfinder, which would bend up. So it was up like this. I could kind of look down in the top of it like a Hasselblad. And I could see it was distorting, you know, and I'm going, come on, you know, like not now. Yeah. And that was my frustration. Plus trying to breathe, trying to stabilize myself, all these things at once. And trying to say to myself, this can't go on, this can't, you know, it just can't be prolonged. I'm not going to be able, I was worried that I was going to black out because I was breathing so hard. And I didn't want to do that. I don't think I ever did. I don't think I ever actually blacked out because of that, you know, epoxy. You were getting sick as well. Oh, constantly, constantly. I threw up for a couple hours to the point where there was just blood in saliva coming out. And I knew I was dehydrated because everything had exploded. And I knew I had to get out of there. Now, some people say, well, did you still smell Freddie? Well, you know what? I smelled myself, you know, at that point. I mean, I'm covered, you know, and I thought, I'll cover this body up. I'll take the thermal blanket, which is also in my pack right here. I'll take this, I'll put it over it, and I'll lay the branch on it or I'll lay logs on it or something or rocks. So that was my thought. My thought was, you know, recognizing what I could do. I only had a pocket knife, some dog food, a couple of snack bars, water, and my cameras. That's basically all I had. I mean, I expected to be gone for two hours, you know. And hours had gone by, laying there, breathing, doing this, not being able to to calm my breathing down. And I was constantly saying that to myself. Now, you've got to calm down, you've got to make your breathing slow down. I mean, but I couldn't get enough air in. It's uncontrollable. Yeah. Oh, it was totally, you know. But I was working on it. I was thinking it through. My methodology was you've got to slow your breathing down. So I was conscious enough to know that, and to know that something had happened that made me this way. And that even my proximity to the body didn't change anything. Even when I was 100 feet away, it was still just as bad. So it whatever hit me stayed in me and made me this way. It didn't have anything to do with your proximity. Right. And the only thing about proximity that when I was using the video camera, I knew the closer that I got to the obelisk, the black thing, the more it would distort in the viewfinder. And that made me mad, of course. But then I got farther away and took some very, very clear shots of it like in this valley. And at that point, I'm 100 feet away. Did you, do you still have the negatives? I have some. You have some negatives? Yes. From a 35. Yes. And do you still have the original tape? No. Okay. That's been confiscated. Yes. Stolen. But the negatives are in a safe way. I have some of them. Yes. I have some of them. How come you have some of them? What happened to the other negatives? Because we separated all of the evidence we had and put it in different lots. And I mailed some to away to Canada. And I had in Canada early on just because we knew we're going to lose it all. Yeah. Because our houses had been torn apart. And then some other things had happened, which was really where they broke into my parents' house. But they didn't steal anything. But they left some things. They left an empty bottle of like beer right in the middle of their dining room table. Like almost. Well, we were here. That's it. You know, we were here and we didn't fuck up your house. Yeah. That they did to mine. But a lot of our evidence had been stolen. I mean, 75% of it had been so stolen over the first 10 years. Yeah. And now I've got it buried like I have the artifact away from me totally where I have no idea where it is. Maybe safe in that way. Oh, absolutely. So you have the thermal blanket. You're putting it over this body. And then you have, did you in that moment just suddenly realize I should take this with me? Like what was the thought? No, my thought was covered up and keep it from the animals. Keep it from the animals to eat it. Right. I mean bears, wild cats, mountain lions, a lot of critters. This is high up. This isn't in a park. You know, this is the wilderness. And so that was my first thought. Was your thought I'm going to come back for this? Yes. Right. I'm going to come back with somebody who can help me. With somebody who I think what went through my mind was somebody will know more than I know. Because I don't know what this is. You know, and my mind didn't want to go to alien. It didn't want to go anywhere around that. It wanted to go. This is, this is a living being. But it's not human. It's not human looking. Is it, is it a deformed human? I mean, that's where my mind was going. And from moment to moment, I never thought alien until my friend Gary said, Oh, well, I know what this is. You know, and I, I said, Oh, thank you. I said, I don't want it. No, because he was going to put a name on it. And I didn't want to get that close. I didn't want it to become. Yeah. You know, a real thing. Yeah. I don't know how to answer that because people say, Well, what do you mean you didn't want it to be real? You'd gone through all this stuff. I said, I just didn't want to identify it that way. I didn't want to be like a close friend to it, okay? Which is ironic because it's kind of become that. Yeah. It's, people say, Well, you know, now you have this little friend. I said, No, it's not a friend. It's still foreign. It's still not human. And I mean, now I know it's really not human. And it has abilities that are far beyond our capability, as far as telepathy goes. I mean, he could take things out of my head and replay them in my mind that happened when I was five years old. He could extract my whole memory and look at it and then decide what he wanted to throw back at me. When you receive those images or those projections in your mind, how do you distinguish them from your own mind creating them? What's like the distinct factor, the defining factor that makes you think, This isn't me. This is my imagination. Because they're better. They're clearer. They're clearer. The sharper I can smell the grass on the ground, laying in the grass as a little kit, you know, picking like dandelions, I can smell it. And it's so vibrant. It's like being, you know, just that's being extracted and put in my mind what that smells like. Does this happen during waking states? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just like we're here. And all of a sudden. And just boom, it's there. Really? Yeah. I had to get him to slow down of putting things in my head because it was like a fire hose. I couldn't decipher it. It was too fast, too. Yeah, just overload. And I finally said, no, slow down, slow down. And then he got it. He understood. And he started doing it really slow. So miraculous, amazing, astonishing. But as much as I didn't want to believe it, I didn't want to admit to myself, this was really happening for a couple of years. It still continued. The dissociation was an important part of keeping your sanity at that point. Right. Right. Or in sanity. Sure. Depending on how you want to look at it. And people say, oh, well, you know, where was Gary all this time? Well, Gary and I had separated. We had left gone two different places, knowing that we were being beat up and thrown out the road and, you know, harassed. And both of us decided one night towards the end, okay, I'm leaving where you go. Don't tell me where you're going. Just go. And you know how to get to me if you need to. We had a fail safe. thing. Jerry was the first person you told. Gary was the first person I told who I explained what had happened, who had seen, yeah, who had seen Freddie, right? And it blew his mind. He was there when you, well, let's not jump there. Let's get first. I want to, I want to get into where your mind is at when you're. I wish I knew. It's, I mean, you, you, you do such a great job of painting a zizid picture of this. And it really is bringing me there. And, and I kind of want to understand. So I decided to cover the body. Yeah. And, and it wasn't because, you know, I want to take it home. It was because I didn't want anything to get to it because I, I know critters in the woods. I know what they do. I've done a lot of hiking, a lot of camping, all my life. And, and I know what out, if you leave, you know, a banana out, somebody's going to eat it. And especially if something has a wound in it and there's blood everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know if the smell was attractive to other things or repundent. You know, anyway, I couldn't find anything to put on the blanket, like rocks. They were like, rocks is big. But the ones that were bigger were connected into the ground. I mean, this is right at the tree line. You know, this is 5,000 feet. So my thought was if I can't do that, the blanket isn't doing any good. So I thought, well, maybe I can put a branch, some branches on it. Well, there weren't any enough loose branches. And so I said, okay, well, I'll just cover it up. And to cover it up, instead of just laying it like a blanket, which wouldn't do anything, my large furry sin, you know, wind would blow. It'd be gone. My thought was, put it underneath the body. Just, you know, and I didn't want to touch it. I did not want to touch the body. I didn't want to get it on me. I didn't want to, you know, I knew enough not to do that. And so I put the blanket over my hands and slid it underneath this body. And as I'm doing that, it's, I mean, it's also covered up. So I'm not, you know, two inches from it. I'm moving it and I realize this thing is incredibly light. I mean, it's, you know, it's 53 inches high. And at the time I didn't know that, but later I measured. But, you know, it's this high. And it's got ahead this big. I said that it can't be this light. It cannot be. So anyway, I'm pushing it. And slide like 30 pounds. Like 30 pounds. Yeah. And the only thing in my mind, I mean, my mind is reeling from one thing to another thinking, how can this be, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I'm thinking, okay, birds have hollow bones. Most birds have hollow bones. That's one of the reasons they can fly. I am thinking, maybe this thing has hollow bones. I mean, it broke his skull when I hit him. But I didn't know how hard I'd hit him. Because I, you know, I couldn't, yeah. In the moment, you know, I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking about not dying. And because I figured it would attack me. But anyway, I roll it up inside this thermal blanket. And I mean, a lot of people say, well, what do you mean you roll it? I said, like a sleeping bag, like you roll a sleeping bag up or a burrito, you know, and that's what I did. I rolled it up. And I thought, okay, there it is. And I think, oh, my pack has straps on it. I could take those off. And I could tie it around it, you know, keeping closed, keeping it, you know, and I think my whole methodology was, I didn't want to see it. I want that was the biggest thing. I can wrap it up, tie it up. I don't have to see it. It's because it's contained. And when I did that, when I put the straps around it, I had to move it. And I moved it. And I thought, this thing is amazingly light. I can carry this. So I thought, okay, I'll carry it in one hand and carry my pack and cameras in the other. They felt almost the same. They weren't, but they, you know, it was kind of like stabilization. And I thought, I'll just walk to where I can find a place to put this, you know, behind bushes or stones or whatever. I'll find a place. Now, it had taken an hour for me walking with Susie from where I park my Jeep to where the event happened. Okay. It's pretty deep in the woods. So, well, it's, it's the for us. Yeah. I can't tell you enough. Anyway, so I figured it's going to take me an hour. And it's going to start getting dark. I knew that. That was a big thing. And so, I'm walking and all of a sudden, just like that, I'm back at my Jeep. I don't know how that happened. I have no recognition of the time. I know I looked around a little bit. I threw up a couple times and I pick it back up and I start walking farther. I don't know where that time went. I have no idea. Did you notice the missing time during the event? No, no, not until I got back to my Jeep. And then you were like, whoa, that's yeah, like, like how that happened, you know. And my Jeep was the only one in that area when we had come driven up. There were a couple other cars. Some people were getting into their car and leaving. But that was it. It was late in the season. I knew there wouldn't probably be a lot of people around. Anyway, I realized I'm back. So I unlocked the back of my Jeep, lifted it up and thought, okay, I'm just going to put this inside. And so I lifted it up, put it inside, closed the door and walked around to the driver's car, got in and just sat there breathing, trying to slow my breathing. I was still gasping for breath but less and sat there. And then I realized Susie's not here. Susie's not sitting in the passenger seat where she always was. And that was like the first recognition of realizing Susie's gone. And I know I got sad for a minute and I looked in the rear view mirror and I could see the top of the gold silver blanket. And I knew something had happened. Something really was real. And I started the car and I drove out of that area, stopped a couple times, got out, threw up, got back in, drove further, and I remembered on this route back to the highway. There's an exit that says Ranger Station. And I thought Ranger Station, I got to go there. I got to go there. And I saw I drove there to the Ranger Station Park. I'm all excited. Went up to the door, banged on the door. Nobody was there. Nobody. Not a sound, not a sign that said we're gone. Nothing. There was nobody there. So I got back in, breathed for a while and drove home. You know, which took about 50 minutes on the highway. Now people say, well, why didn't you go to the police? Why didn't you do this? You know, because I didn't think about that. I thought about getting away from this turmoil that's going on with me. And I thought home sounds good, home sounds like salvation. And, safety. Yeah. And I just drove in the carport. I sat there for a few minutes, thinking, what am I going to do with this? Where am I going to put it? Because I could see it in the rear view mirror. And like I said, I'm in the carport right next to my garage, which is an outbuilding from my house. And I thought, I don't know. And I'm telling you exactly what happened. I got out of the car, I closed the door, went into the yard, went to my house, went to my inside my house, stood in front of the sink, drinking as much water as I could, gasping for breath. And I thought, I can't leave it in the car. I can't leave it in the car. If somebody stole it, you know, that'd be a surprise. But I can't leave it in the car. So I walked back down my stairs, you know, back out of the house, crossed the yard, opened the gate, went to the car, unlocked the back, picked it up, and said, I'm just going to put it in the garage. I put it in the garage. That's the only thoughts I had. I mean, it was like one at a time. Yeah, nothing too crazy. Right. And so I opened the inside door of the garage. not the big door, but the inside door. And soon as I opened the door right across the floor, is this old freezer that I had. So it's staring me in the face. And I thought, okay, this is meat. It's gonna decompose. So that's a good place. Out of sight, working, it was working. Old freezer, somebody given to me. Not the full eight foot one, but it was about a half size, pretty much what's in the documentary, contact in the woods. I was never interested in lights in the sky or UFOs. I mean, I remember when we went to the moon, I remember all those things and that was cool. It was interesting, but it wasn't captivating to me. I mean, it didn't make me want to become an astronaut. And I don't know why. I don't know why I wasn't more interested in some of these things, but I can't lie about it and say I was 'cause I wasn't, you know? And people say, well, you should know such and such person in their case and I said, you know what? I'm only an authority on my case, you know? If you ask me, does it compare to Mr. Smith or Mr. John? And I can't truly tell you that unless they're sitting here and we can talk about it. - Is there, that being said, is there a case that you've come across? Because I know, you know, you've befriended Heinem Son, you've had a lot of friends within this circle, but is there a case that to you stands out as one that you can deem more authentic, just even by feeling? - Well, I can mention somebody that you obviously know and Travis Walton, I came to, I met him when he was in, where was it? - Tennessee. - Oh, okay. - What's the music place in Tennessee? - Oh, yes. Nashville. - Yes, Nashville, thank you. - He was flying in to do a conference. Holly is from there. And kind of grew up and was raised in there and she knows everything about Nashville there is. But I met him on the plane when I was coming in. He was on the same plane I was coming in 'cause he had come from, I don't know, Arizona, I think. And he started, he introduced himself to me. I didn't even see him. He was walking through the plane and he says, "Oh, John's in, you know, and I look up and I think who knows me on this plane, you know?" And then I realized his face, you know, and I had seen him in things. And we talked there on the plane for about 15 minutes before it flew in, he asked if he could take a picture of me, which I thought was amazing. Why would anybody want a picture of me? But he did, we took one together, I have one of him. And then we got in and we were gonna go to almost the same place. And he was being picked up by another guy, that's kind of famous, that has my last name, Tom Reed. I don't know if you've ever heard of his case, but it's big, it's amazing. There's a lot of detail, very similar in some ways to mind. Happened to him when he was a kid. But he has some evidence, he has some, you know, so I met him, got to talk to him. Tom Reed had a limousine that he owns. And so he was driving that. And so we all rode in, you know, and all good old friends, good old buddies. And in fact, Holly was there too. And so that's how I first met Travis Weld. Well, I knew of his case a long time ago because it was in the media. - Yeah, it was a big case. And I remember, I can't give you the year, but I remember seeing that he was gonna be on with Oprah Winn free on TV, and I remember seeing that, but I didn't see the show. I just saw the ad for it. And, but it was way long time. I mean way back in the, 'cause his case happened in '75. - '75. - And I think it was probably 90 when I saw this ad for this. And then he became a little bit more, his case was highlighted because they made a movie around it. - Fire in the sky. - Fire in the sky, which I've seen a few times. - That came out in '92 or '93. - I think so. And then, and talking with him years since, he's told me how poorly they did the job of his story. They basically took full artistic license and changed it around. And, you know, I said, hey, but you got a picture from it, you know, and he agreed, you know. And anyway, that's how I met him. I met him not because of the case, but just in passing as a guy. He's very friendly. He's very personable. Probably a lot more than I am. He was comforting to me and said, you know, I know he'd been through hell, I know what that's like. And don't, you know, don't let these guys beat you up. And he was talking about humans, you know. And, you know, just let it roll, just let it roll. That was his way. And I thought, that's cool, that's really nice, you know. - He's a nice guy. - And so I've stayed in touch with him. I mean, I get a Christmas notice from him that says, Merry Christmas, hope you're doing well, you know. Or a birthday, something, you know. And I do the same to him. And then I've talked to him since then. And then we had dinner, three days straight, where we all ate in the same place. He sat right next to me or read across from me. I talked to him in detail about my thing. He talked to me, detail about his thing. And I will tell you, there's no doubt I believe him, okay. I haven't seen anything, but the man himself is truly, I think, an honest soul. And I met a lot of people, you know, dealing with psychology and talking to people and stuff. And I just think he's very genuine, you know. - Yeah, and he's a simple guy too. He's not someone very complicated. And, you know, I recognize that. And I recognize that when he's telling his story 'cause I went and saw him, you know, lecture. He's learned how to do it. He's learned how to address the crowd, you know, how to play to the crowd. And he knows what they want and what's not necessary. And he just deals with the facts. And then after, they have questions and answers and stuff. And when he would come to a point where he didn't know, he'd say, I don't know, you know, I don't know what happened at that time. I may have passed out, I don't know. You know, and they say, well, you know, were they good to you in the ship? He says, I don't know. None of that, do I remember? All I remember is getting out of there and that one led him out the door, basically, a different one. - Yeah. - I find him very credible and honest to be a really honest guy, you know, both of us, I think, have one wish. We wish we would understand more. We wish we could understand more. And but he is one of the ones that also told me, you know, you don't have to tell anybody anything, you know, you got nothing to prove. And he said it became easier for him once he realized that, that he didn't have to prove anything. - Yeah. - So that's good advice. - After, you know, after 10 years of doing it, I basically took a step back because, again, a couple of my friends were hurt and I decided, I didn't want to have that happen. I had some, I'm gonna try to say how I feel about it. I had some internal problems with my, some team players. And there was a jealousy aspect of who would get to be the leader for that day or who would do this, you know, it just became a political personal issue. And I had to actually say, you know, I gotta let you go. You know, you need to go do your life. And he didn't like that. And then he put out some negative stuff about me, like it happens, same as Travis, you know. And you know, you just get over it. You just gotta get over it and move on. There's no fix in the fence, so to speak. - I can't do all of it. - This whole thing has been a learning process for me of just how do, how do we get along with each other? How do we tell information to somebody and not have them make a huge judgment and not take it personal? Sure. I mean, you know, I tell everybody this and I haven't said this to you today, but I have to. If I hadn't experienced all this myself, if I hadn't had my hands on it, the technology and the issues, if I hadn't had done that all myself and seen it myself, I probably wouldn't believe it either. And that's okay. That's all right. Because early on, you know, even with my friend Gary, who knew me really well, I mean, I knew him from early high school days. He was his background, by the way. Architect. Okay. He was a licensed architect. Even with him coming into my house, knowing me, seeing me as sick as I was that first day, he didn't believe me. And I knew it. I could see it. I could see it on his face. And I just like in the new documentary, I say, come to the garage. I'll show you. You know, because the proof was in the freezer. And he did. And then he went through that same process of, you know, I just saw it, but I don't believe it. I just saw it, but I don't believe it. And you almost talk yourself out of believing what you just saw. Later mine can't. And I went through the whole process for almost two years. And so anyway, I was back at my Jeep. I had the thing. I drove home. I went to the Ranger Station. Nobody there. I drove into my carport. I put him in the freezer in my garage. And I went in the house and stood in the shower, not thinking about anything, other than the water running all over me and my clothes and my shoes and everything. Because I was a mess. It was a mess. And I just peeled off the layers and stood there for a long time. And I got out of there, got out of the shower, put on some clothes, and thought, I got to call somebody. I got to call my girlfriend. And so I called her and that was in the days of the answering machines. You know, we didn't have voicemail and all that jazz. But so I left her a message because she was, no, call me. I'm home. Call me. And then the next home call was to Gary. And I said, Gary, Susie's dead. Come over. Come over to my house. You know, I'm really sick. And that's the message I left him. And, you know, he called me in about 15 minutes. He said, what's going on? I said, just come over. And he did about 10 minutes later, came over, said, oh, you're a mess. You know, sit down. Let me do this. You know, he was a very, very nice person and got me water and, you know, and I know he didn't want to think about anything other than my condition. He was worried about my condition. And I said to him, I said, I'm okay. I'm all right. I'll be okay. But you've got to listen. You've got to know what's happened. You know, and finally, I knew he wasn't listening. I knew he wasn't even, you know, because I could tell the look on his face. He wasn't, I said, come with me. You've got to come with me. We had to go to the garage. And he said, garage, why? I said, come with me. And I took him to the garage, opened the freezer, took it out, laid it on the floor and opened the thermal blanket. And at that moment, he just went white. Somebody who talked all the time didn't say a word and backed up against the garage wall. And just, he just didn't say anything. He started to say something kind of mumbled. And nothing I can repeat. And I said, okay, let's go in the house. And I rolled it up, put it back in the freezer, closed it, and went in. And we went in there and just sat there with the tequila bottle between us drinking. For I don't know how long before he finally said, you know, what the fuck is this? You know, and I said, I told you the story. I told you what happened. And I said, this is what killed Susie. And he just, you know, he wouldn't digest that. He just kept thinking this can't be. There must be something else, you know, because he said, that doesn't make sense. I said, none of it makes sense. And I said, I'll show you. I got the videotape. I played it, put it in my player and played it. And he just stared at it. It's seven minutes long, you know. And he just said, Jonathan, this isn't saying, this isn't saying, you know, and every other expletive he could imagine saying. He said, and he said, well, I know what this is. I know what it is. And I said, I don't want to hear it. I don't want to, you know, because I knew he was going to put a name to it, you know. And he says, no, you don't know, you know, and I said, you're right. I don't know. And he said, it's an alien. It's either extraterrestrial or extradimensional or something, but it's definitely an alien. And so, you know, now the cat's out of the bag. And that's all he kept saying. I mean, I couldn't shut him up, you know. And he got me more water. And then we drank the tequila and basically finished the bottle. And, and both just sat there thinking, you know, what a terrible ordeal I'm thinking. And he's thinking, I don't know what to do. You know, what should we do? What we need to call these people? You know, we could call, you know, the Air Force. We could call, you know, he was his mind was just spitting out all this stuff. And I said, you can do that. I got to calm down. I got to get out of this sickness, you know. And also by talking about it again, I had soiled myself again. So, you know, I'm still sick. I'm still really rising in this, you know, camp breathe can't calm down. And I was doing everything I could do not to go to the Osville. Because I didn't want to put myself with the people I work with. And yeah, I just didn't want to do that, you know. And I mean, I didn't even want to think about it most of the time. But that's where we were at. That's where I talked to Gary. That's where he saw the body. That's how that all came about. At what point did you film the body the next day? It was the next end. Gary was president during that filming? No, the first, the film that you've seen is I did alone. And why? Because Gary had left to go do something. I didn't have a tripod. People say, well, how did you get to shot? Because you're both your hands are in there. And I said, well, I set it on top of a box in my garage. It's right there. And it said, well, what'd you do with the other? I said, I taped my camera, duct tape my camera to the side of my little ladder that I had pointed it. And, you know, that's how I did it. Not special. Just I'd used what was available. Was it at that point that you realized that there was like a chunk out of its head? Yes, that was the first time I realized because once I opened it, I could see it. I turned his head and I could see it hang in there. And it was it was about that big. And it was bone, scalp, where we would have scalp. He didn't have any hair on him. Inner cranial material, the inner cranial sac was attached to that, which had ripped open, which had bled out. And, you know, it's a water more than blood. But he had bled a great deal. I figured, you know, just from the amount he bled in the forest, I figured he was dead. So, I mean, we're talking quartz, not just a drip. Yeah. And I cleaned it up. I cleaned him up a little bit and put it kind of put it back in place. And then when I folded the blanket back up around him, it kind of stayed there, you know. But as soon as I'd opened it up again, it would fall out. But it was attached. It was it was attached to the skin and the scalp. So finally, I ended up, I know this sounds terrible. But finally I put it in place, took a piece of duct tape and taped it to his head, just because I didn't want it fluffing around. Yeah. And then the duct tape was right there, in the garage. The link. Now, when you would retrieve that initially, you said you thought it was like some type of Pepsi can or some type of-- If you take a normal size can of juice or Pepsi or Coke, Coke is my favorite, not Pepsi. It's a joke because people say you've said the word Coke so many times as Coke paying you to say that. Anyway, if you bend that can, if you crush it in the middle, so both ends kind of go like this and it's bent like that. And you throw that underneath the ferns. That's what I saw was a silvery li-- looking object. And I thought it was, oh, it's a Coca-Cola can that's crushed. And then I moved the ferns, and then I realized, no, it's not. And it's got some of these etchings on it that are pretty predominant. They're pretty big. And it's done the one edge of it. And so I picked it up. I really didn't think about it. Probably because I didn't want to think about anything. And I set it in with the body as I wrapped it up. So that's how I first was, you know, visible of this thing. I got home. I opened the body up because at that point, I thought my dog was wrapped up. I had told my mind, it's got to be Susie. You brought Susie's body home. There's no logic to it. It's just maybe more comforting, knowing what your dog is versus this body that I didn't know what it was. I opened it. I looked there was that it was because it was sitting right by his shoulder, the artifact. I took it out, set it on the floor, wrapped his body up. Then I picked it up and set it on the shelf inside the garage, not wrapped up just sitting there. It was just a place to put it. And I was wanting to get away from this. So I went in the house. Later on, and there is some information that's out of sequence, not to you, but to other people because they tend to want to condense everything. I left Seattle running away. I borrowed a car, somebody's used a car. I had like $200 and I drove to Canada. I drove to Vancouver. I was familiar with Vancouver because my father worked there occasionally. We'd go up on maybe once or twice every couple of months and we'd stay there in a hotel. I'd go to Stanley Park with my mom. It was a neat place. It was very similar to Seattle in that it's kind of a small downtown. Anyway, I knew that place. I knew it like a second home. I had some friends there that I knew. But I wasn't going to go to them because that would just bring this whole basket of trouble to them. But I knew I could go there and I could probably find a way to just survive because all the shit that was going on at home, I wanted to put it into. Breaking into everybody's houses, you know, following me around, ransack and everything. It was just a nightmare. So I wanted that to end. Gary went one way. I went the other. We both decided we'd get in touch with each other on a certain time, a certain day, a certain place through somebody else. So that's why I left town and I went there and I parked my car in a place where it, you know, probably would have been left alone. I started walking and I just ended up in Stanley Park and knew the park pretty well, not totally. But I met some guys that were younger than me who were staying in the park. They said, Oh, well, we're from so until we're standing, we're camping, you know, you can't camp in Stanley Park, but they were doing it. You know, and I said, OK, well, that's cool. You know, and he said, come with me. You know, come with us. We'll be cool. And that's how I stayed. I stayed with some of these guys who were also homeless. I met some other people that were homeless, a couple older guys and they taught me some things about living on your own, living off the grid. And I'd never done that in my life. I'd never thought about doing it, but they were very cool people. They were very earthy people. Where did you, so when you left, did you leave the artifact behind? No. You took it with you. I took it and put it inside of a Folger's coffee can, wrapped up in a piece of cloth. And with the lid put on, I never opened it. I buried it in Stanley Park. I was alone. I buried it next to a big tree. No doubt I could find it again. And I buried it about, I don't know, two or three feet down and just covered it back up, stopped on it and never touched it. Touched that can until ten months later. So I was homeless for ten months and lived there, lived in some other places that were kind of like a burned out apartment building. And a lot of things had been happening. And I had stayed in touch with somebody from my area who knew my parents, knew the house, knew me for a long time. And so I was getting updates on what was going on at the homestead. And it wasn't really good. It really was kind of bad. They were still harassing my parents and where to go. Tell us where he is. And I was at a breaking point where I had lived a really good life. I had established myself as a really credible physician. I was making it the time back then. There was a lot of money, about $350,000 a year just as a salary. Did you end up letting people know that you're not coming in? How did you stop work? You ready? On the second day of bringing the body home. I knew I was going to be able to go to work because I felt so crappy. I mean, you know, I couldn't even sit up longer than an hour and I felt terrible. He felt ill still. Yeah, very. So I called. No, I didn't call. He called me my assistant who I worked with at the hospital University Medical Center, seventh floor, psychiatric. He called me and somebody I had known for years, I would say he was like my partner. And he said, Jonathan, I called you for a reason. He was, I said, what? I said, I was just going to call you. Tell you I'm not coming in. He says, are you moving? Because there's guys here taking all the filing cabinets and all the computers and stuff off your desk. And they said, you're moving. And he says, you didn't tell me anything about that. And I said, I'm not moving. He said, these guys got paperwork from the administration, from the hospital saying that they're authorized to take this stuff. And I said, well, first well, I never authorized it. I don't know anything about this. And he says, well, I'm telling you, they're done. They're done taking everything. They've already, you know, and I said, well, if you can stop them, stop them. If you can call administration or security, stop them. Anyway, it's too late. I said, okay, I'm not coming in. I'm still sick. I'll get back to you. He said, okay, I called at that moment, I called the administration department and said, I got to speak with Dr. Jonathan Reid because I have to make some appointments that we had set up. And I have to change those. And they said, oh, just a minute. And it was somebody, a woman's voice, and put me on hold. And somebody came back that was a guy and said, who are you looking for? And I said, Dr. Jonathan Reid, he says, we have no one working at this facility under that name. Who are you? And I said, okay, thanks, hung up. Okay. I called another number who is administrator that I knew. And she wasn't in, but her secretary said, Jonathan, I don't know what's going on, but there's all these people here saying that we can't talk about you and that you've become a felon and you're involved in something that's illegal. And if we involve ourselves, we could possibly be fired. And I said, okay, they convinced me that it had happened and it was true. And I knew enough had gone on. And so at that moment, I knew they had gone that far to, you know, basically fuck with my life. And then I thought, well, what else, you know, I got to get my money. out of the bank because I have some money. So I called my bank, a banker I knew. They said the same thing. They said, "We don't know what's going on, but everything's gone of yours. All accounts have been sealed. All the money that you had in those accounts has been extracted and it's a government, federal government thing." And we had to sign for it and that you are a felon and that nobody else can mention your name or talk about this. The banker, do you have his name? I have her name. Her name? She got fired for talking about me. I sued the bank and I ended up getting about 20% of my money back because I did that. They never rehired her. They basically let her go. What was her name? I have all that information, but we're not going there. We're not going to give it up. I've done it. She's been on tape. She did an interview with Jaime. Wow. Way back then. Yeah. I think that's one of those things that people are going to like, "Well, we need to know that." If that's out there, I mean-- We also at the same time interviewed a nurse that worked for me in my department and she gave out all that information and then was harassed for years, for years. And now I have no idea where she is. Do you think that's why the so the directors and producers of contact in the woods, the documentary that featured your story? They were threatened. Yes. As soon as it became known that they were going to do some kind of film project with me, they were threatened. I don't know that they will ever tell you that, but I know it's true. I heard from both of them. They wanted to remain anonymous. Yes. And I told them it's probably a good idea. Look, this threat thing is real. I mean, it's absolute. I mean, it's happened to everybody who's been around me and even those just one step removed from me. So people say, "Well, why haven't you done this? Why haven't you told all this?" I said, "Well, I did for 10 years. I told the whole thing. I dumped it out. I went to people like Stephen Greer and said, "Take this from me. Take my case. You talk about it. You're the one doing this." He said, "Well, no. You don't have any credentials anymore." Because they had erased everything I had ever done. My three colleges, three universities that I went to that I graduated from. None of that information exists anymore. None of it. And people were gone. People went to those universities and said, "You will not talk about this person. Otherwise, you'll lose your job and you could lose your life." And these people are tremendously intimidating. I even know somebody that killed their dog that was on their front porch. I mean, it's insane. Okay. I want to, I definitely want to get into anything you want. The relationship with Robert Rafe, but also your trick to Toronto when filming the demonstration of using the link. But before we get there, I do want to ask you, do you think you have been given an implant through this interaction by them, by the aliens? I've had CAT scans and MRIs since then, with people who I knew. In other words, they knew me. Sure. They couldn't find anything. Okay. Do I think I have been imprinted, implanted something in my head? Yes. Like a download, do you mean? Yes. Right. I don't know what you call it. Download or upload, you know. But yes. And the reason is, is when I was sitting across the table, like this, with Robert Rafe, who was my author, co-author, this was years after I had initially met pretty. Okay. Robert was somebody who I was told to contact who could help me write this down in some kind of form. He was a writer. I wasn't a writer. And my mind was, you know, so messed up. But he said, you know, here's three names. Call one of these. They're all writers. You make a decision to talk to them and, you know, somebody actually gave me that advice. A bunch of guys that I call the Alliance. That's not their real name, but that's what I call. And they're the guys who rescued me from Canada. You want me to tell you how that happened? Sure. Okay. I was, this is when you're in Vancouver. Yes. I was sitting in the basement of a burned out apartment building. I was staying there, because it was wintertime and it was cold and wet out there. Vancouver. I didn't really want to stay in the woods anymore at that moment. And I'll tell you, I was at the lowest point, one of the lowest points that I have ever been in my life. I had found a gun, a pistol. I knew it worked, had a couple bullets in it. And I was basically thinking, I don't want to live like this anymore. I don't want to survive. I just, you know, it was terrible. I didn't want to go on. And I basically decided that I was going to kill myself. And as I sat there with the gun in one hand, I had my wallet that had, you know, some ID, some real ID. And what do you mean, some real ID? Well, I had also acquired some fake ID. I see. But I was actually thinking, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to lay my real ID out here, because somebody's going to eventually find my body. And I want them to know who I am, who, you know, so they can get back to my parents. And, you know, so I was taken the fake ID out and leaving the real ID there on this little table and had the gun. And as I was going through my wallet, I found this piece of paper that I was given to 10 months ago before I left Seattle, somebody in a store, as I was running away from some bad guys who were in a car, somebody in a store ran up to me. I mean, literally, they got in front of me. I thought they were more bad guys. And he said, Jonathan, Jonathan, I'm here to help you. I'm here. I'm not the bad guys. Take this paper. It's got a phone number on it. Call it when you need help. Okay, well, I didn't believe them. I didn't, you know, I just grabbed it, put it in my coat pocket and ran out of there, trying to get away from these other guys. But I kept it. I kept that. I don't know why, but I kept it. It was in my wallet. And I pulled it out and I thought, there's this phone number. I remember what this guy said that someday you may need to talk to somebody. And I thought, well, I can do this anytime, but maybe I should do this first. So I went to a pay phone. I called that number. And the second somebody answered, they said, Jonathan, what can we do to help you? And I hung up. I thought, this is going to be the bad guys. It's got to be, you know, hung up. Anyway, a few hours later, I went and called again. And the person on the other end of the phone knew who I was. They knew who the call was. And I thought, well, that's really weird. How can that pay, you know? But he said, Jonathan, don't hang up. We're here to help you. We're not part of the bad guys. You know, I mean, he really just threw out all this information. So I knew they knew who I was. I knew they knew the kind of situation I was in. And he said at that time, what can we do to help you? Can we get you a place to stay? Do you need medical attention? Do you need money? Do you need clothes? Do you need, what do you, you know, and all I said was, okay, I need money. And I didn't believe him. But I said, okay, put money in the envelope and tape it under the, under the park bench that's out in such and such park. The third bench. The guy said, okay, when, when do you want it? You know, I said tomorrow, you know, I'll pick it up at noon, but I don't want to see anybody around. Nobody near that area. I said, because if they are, I said, "I'll shoot you." and he said, okay, we'll do it, it'll be there. And we'll put another phone number with it if you want, so you can know that it's from us. And I said, okay, so again, I didn't believe him, but I went and sat from about 6 a.m. to about, about one o'clock and watched the whole park, watched the area, watched people come and go and people sit on that bench and never saw anything. Never saw anybody put anything under it, you know, but I finally walked over to that bench, sat on it and reached underneath it and taped underneath that bench was an envelope with 300 US dollars in it. So I knew they were at least trying, you know, I just still didn't believe him, but at that point I'm thinking, you know, it's a bad guys, I'm sick of this whole thing. I just, it's got to end and I figured even if it's a bad guys, just let them get you, I don't care. And, but it wasn't. It was these really nice people who identified themselves as a group and I put the name Alliance on it for when I wrote about them in the book. They sat me down finally and, you know, told me, where do you want us to meet you? And I said, such and such hotel, little little hotel on Vancouver and they said, okay, we'll do it. We'll be there whatever time you want. And they did everything exactly like they said. And they were nice. They set me down. They talked to me. They didn't ask me, you know, about the incident. They didn't ask me about Freddie. They didn't ask me. They said, just kept saying, well, can we do to help you? We know your circumstances. If you want to talk about it, we'll talk about it. If you don't, it's fine. But, you know, we're here to help you. And I said, well, I need it. I said it would be nice to be able to have a warm place to stay that had a bathroom. And they said, is this place okay? You know, I said sure. And again, I constantly thought, okay, in or gonna rush in with all the bad guys, they're gonna beat me up and, you know, time me up and drag me out of here. But they never did. These were the nice guys. And they proved everything they ever said was true. - Where are they from? What is their affiliation? - Well, all I know is they had their mind and their ideas on everything that I had done, that I had been through. They knew pretty much the whole case. Okay, they didn't know all the details of what I had to do and, you know, after I left town, but they had heard about it. And I said, well, where did you hear about it? It says, well, everything from the police, your neighbors calling about somebody breaking into your house. And then, you know, we know, we know. And he said, don't trouble yourself with that. Trouble yourself with getting better, getting stronger. Because what you've learned is important. Other people need to know this has happened to you. - Do you think these individuals were some sort of like non-human? - No. - They were definitely human. - They were human. And I asked them a question and I said, why should I trust you? I don't know who you are. And he says, do you know anybody that you trust, that you really, really trust? I said, yeah, I got a handful of people. He said, name any of them and I'll bring them here for you to talk to. And I said, okay, I'll give you the name of two people. And I gave them two people. One of them was a Seattle police officer that I knew personally from when I was a kid who had grown up basically in the area. - Is he still around? - No. And another one was a senator, Senator Gorton of Washington State and who I knew personally through some other family issues. And they brought both of them and they came and talked to me for hours, an hours, eight with me in my room. And they said, this is real, this is real, Jonathan. You've got to find a way to come back to deal with this. And they were basically trying to convince me not to kill yourself, you know? There's people who care about you, you know, my family was still around in those days. And so they convinced me to come back, to bring this back. They're convinced me to write about it in a journal. They said, just write it in a journal. So you know kind of what happened chronologically. And someday you might want to share that with somebody. And then a few months later, months, okay? They had said, here's some names of some people who are basically writers. Some had authored books, some had been ghost writers, some were magazine type people. And you don't know any of them, but you're willing to call them and talk to them. And if you'd pick anyone you want and, you know, see what you can do, see if it works. So I had called one and didn't like the way she, I just didn't like the feeling of this one person. And so I called another one of the names and it was Robert, it was Robert Ray's. And he lived in California and Sacramento area and had been from California all this life. And he had written some different articles on atomic energy and some other trade type magazine things. And then he helped somebody else as a ghost writer on their book, but nothing to do with this subject. And I called him and I said, hey, I want you to know what happened. This is how I got your name. I didn't give him all the details, but I just said, your name was given to me as somebody that might be interested. And he said, well, yeah, yeah, I could do that. He said, I've never done anything with that subject matter, but you know, we configured out 'cause I told him I had written this journal, you know. And it was 1,500 paid journal, so I had done a lot, but it was good for me to write it, to get it down. - Sure, they're beautiful. - And it was what I would have told a patient. - Right, yeah, right there. - You know, so I knew that that was, you know, the thing to do, right? So anyway, he said, well, he says, I'm in Sacramento, I'll fly up there and talk to you, you know, and I said, well, I'm kinda not in the area right at the moment, but I said, I'll make arrangements, you know, to come to Seattle, you know. And he said, okay, he says, I have a friend who has an apartment there and they're out of town, but we can use it, and it happens to be not far from where you grew up, you know. And I'm thinking, okay, well, I'm starting to think, you know, is this a bad thing, you know. But anyway, I met him, had my gun, and he turned out to be a really nice guy, and really, not only nice, but he was very personable, and understood that I was going through some hell with my body, my physical body, and he was concerned about, you know, whether or not I should be traveling, or, you know. And he said, well, here's what, you know, and I should showed him the pictures and a lot of the evidence and stuff, not the link, but I had showed him. And he said, well, this is what we need to do. And he gave me like a detailed list of how he says, I need to be able to work with you and have access to your story and your mind and everything, not just your journal, I wanna hear it from you. And I said, well, okay, I don't have a place to do this unless you wanna go to Canada. And he said, no, he says, I'll rent an apartment. And, you know, in my name, nothing to do with you. And he said, I'll just stay here and you can come and live there or come and go from there, whatever, landed up living there. And he took care of me. He nursed me back to health. I mean, I gained 25 pounds, being around him, and he liked to eat. And it was in a good area. It was close to some restaurants, take out and stuff. And so that's how it happened. That's how it met him. And we became, I mean, he was my best, best friend other than Gary. And I hadn't seen Gary, you know, in over a year. I tried to contact him, couldn't contact him. Just exactly how we had set it up to do. And I assumed that Gary was gone, period, gone forever. Well, he wasn't. Eventually, I got to Gary. And he was, he had been found by some relatives in another state. I went to, because they called me. through some other people. I called them back, they told me what was going on and they said he's in the hospital. He's probably not going to make it. Somebody beat him up with a pipe in his head and he's got some brain damage. He can't really walk or do anything and they don't think he's going to make it. So I immediately left drove with some other people to where he was and saw him and they were right. He was on his last moments. And I used the link, I put it on and I grabbed hold of him and we both went to wherever the superiors are and they looked at him and they said we'll take care of him, we'll take care of him. The link folks on one hand we have some of the most compelling evidence I've ever seen of alien contact or of a UFO. I mean, if you look close enough, it even looks like the aliens blinking at one point which is super creepy. But on the other hand, we have this, well, not exactly this. This is a prop made by Lawrence Kelletow, a friend of the show. He reached out to see if he can help us out and he came through. Now he built this in just a few days, mind you, and it's pretty good. But the one that Dr. Reed presents looks pristine. So if it is fake, did he have a professional prop builder make it? Is there a factory somewhere that's coming up with these things? Because this isn't easy to make. And the only reason I question its authenticity, I mean, when you alleged that the wearer can just teleport wherever he likes, we demand a little bit of proof for evidence and that's kind of what Dr. Reed tried to provide. He allegedly goes to this Canadian production studio in front of a live studio audience, 200 people in attendance, which by the way isn't a small studio. That would be something akin to perhaps like the price is right. Anyways, on TV, he puts on the bracelet, goes into some type of painful trance it seems, and turns into an orb, flies away, and after a few glitches, flies back and comes back. The footage is questionable. At best. It's this part of the story for me and for many others where my conviction level lowers dramatically. Why would he just make that up if he had real alien footage to begin with? Is he just looking for attention? Is he trying to sell a book? I don't know. But when you speak to him, you can tell how passionate he is about this piece of technology and he alleges that it's hidden in a safe place and he doesn't even know where it is because that would be a danger to his own safety. Let me know what you guys make of this because this is a part of the story where you start to lose me a little bit. Even on top of that, he's also providing us with yet another artifact, which we'll get to in a second. And this one is interesting because apparently was made with some residue metal that was found at the site. I'm not completely out. I am still suspending my disbelief, no matter what the real answers here are. It is interesting. But I knew when I was a first time you put it on or no, you'd put it on before. I had put it on before and it just popped off. I was sitting with Robert one day and explaining to him what this thing was. Took it out of the can, set it on the table. He looked at it. He held it. He set it back down. And I just reached for it, picked it up, put it on my arm and it closed tight. And when it closes, you can't get it off. I mean, it's unremovable. And it hurts. It's got big needles in the end of it to penetrate your skin and into your nerves. And the second that goes in your nerve, boy, you know it. I mean, I don't know if you've ever had anything like a hypodermic needle showed in your arm, but you know, it hurts ten times more than that. And then all of a sudden, it gets freezing cold. That pain is no longer there, but then something else starts. You have a kind of a thrombosis in your center of your body, in your heart. Your vibration. Well, it's, thrombosis is a different thing. It's a feeling of like your heart is starting to beat really hard or really unevenly. And that's what you feel. And you feel like that that's being extremely exaggerated throughout your limbs and your legs and your body when you're, when this first happens. And then you just start shaking a little bit like this, everything shakes. You can't prevent it. And then you get tunnel vision. Your vision starts to close down and it starts to get dark and dark and dark. And then all of a sudden, before you lose sight, it becomes completely white. And I mean, you're like you're looking at a white wall. But then it starts to become clearer and then you're not looking at a white wall anymore. You're looking at a new surrounding. And then that pain stops and you're somewhere else. So you, because there was a point where you, you contacted this man in Toronto who had. Okay, no. Let me tell you of this story in the right way. Right. I had met this man who was at a convention, you know, kind of a UFO thing. And I had met him and it was in Los Angeles. And he was him and his wife were just walking around, you know, probably part of a ticket and came and listened to somebody. And I didn't realize that he knew who I was. And he said, "Yeah, I heard you, you know, you did this interview on the radio and I had heard that and then I heard you were going to be here, but we can't stay any longer if you're going to do your talk." And I said, "Well, it's okay, you know, good nice to meet you. They were nice people younger than me." And he said, "Well, if you ever get to Toronto," he said, "That's where I live." And he says, "I do a little, you know, I'm a co-producer of an afternoon talk show." And he says, "I don't know how long it's going to run, but he said, "That's what I'm doing right now. Come, give me a call and, you know, maybe we can do something." Anyway, he called me, this is years later, he called me and said, "Hey, this is Sonny, remember me?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, how are you doing, you know?" And he said, "I had a guy back out of doing a lecture on the show that I'm doing," which is an afternoon talk show, just a local. But he said, he backed out, he said, "If you could get here, I could get you on the show. Don't see a dress." He gave me a dress. He said, "Okay, well, if you're there, you're there, you know, we'll see, you know." And I said, "What was this guy's doing?" "Can't get it." "Somebody killed his wife, after this happened. They'd never ever had any kind of negative in their life. Somebody just went out and stabbed her in her house. So, I got on the airplane, flew with four of my guys, we all went up there. This is outside of Toronto, it's not really in Toronto. It was a little studio, and I'd been in tellers and studios before, you know, I mean, back in my other life before 96. And I kind of knew what they looked like, you know, and this head seating for, you know, 150, 200 people, and they said, "Well, it's a live show. This is what's going to happen. You know, it's in an hour and a half, you know, what do you want?" And I said, "Well, what do you want to show?" You know, and he says, "Well, you're going to use that thing, that device, saying you were talking about?" And I said, "Well, maybe, yeah, maybe." He said, "Okay, how do you want it done? What do you want? Do you want me to bring you in? Do you want me to put you on the panel?" And I said, "No," I said, "How about one camera, one guy on me, non-stop, don't cut away, so that you can see the whole thing." You know, he said, "Oh, okay, that makes sense." You know, he said, "Okay, I'm going to be over here doing this," you know, so it just happened. It just all came together. The crowd came in. They sat down. He did a pre-show thing. Now, he wasn't the main producer. He was like a co-producer. How many people in the audience wrote that? About 200. Between a hundred and fifteen to two hundred. Right. Well, you know, after doing a talk show, I figured, that's quite a few people. But, you know, local guys can, you know, drum up business, you know, and they had done some stuff with somebody cooking something and, you know, so it was that kind of a thing. And he all of a sudden, he says, "Well, the main guy on camera says, "Well, we got a surprise. We got a surprise." this guy, you know, and he named my name, and he says, he's got something to show you that is going to really be amazing to you. That's when he told the crowd, the audience. And then they said, okay, we'll introduce him, you know, they cut back over, the light went on, and I said, I, how are you, you know, thank you for, you know, and he's talking to me a little bit. And he says, just take your way, John, do your thing. And so I just kind of briefly told the story, real brief. I found this thing up in the woods. This is what it does. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, you know, and you put it on the arm like this and it closes down and it closes down right then. And I thought, oh, it's going to work. It's going to, and I, so I'm talking. I said, okay, sometimes you get this pain, the needles, they tell the whole story. And I'm doing it. And then all of a sudden flash. That's all I saw was whiteness. And I went through the process of what you go through when this happens. And it's like being inside of a bubble of energy. It's like sparkler almost like everywhere. And I can't see anything else. And then get, I get this tunnel vision thing. And then it gets white. And I was somewhere else. Okay. I was with the superior to us. They're almost always there when I arrive when this happens. And I felt, I felt bad because I felt I did this selfishly. I did this on camera. This was not to help somebody, you know. And I felt bad. They automatically knew everything I was thinking. I mean, just sucked it right out of my head like they're inside of me. And they said, it's okay. It's okay. We'll send you back. But this is, you know, you have to realize this is basically what they were trying to say. And I can't tell you the exact words, but they were saying, this isn't a toy. This isn't to be abused. This is an honor to be able to have you hold this and be with this. Be with this item. You know, it's important, more important than maybe you realize. And I, I know I felt like I was going to cry because I felt terrible for a done having used it like for a personal thing. And they just said, it's okay. It's okay. We'll, we'll send you back, you know. And then they did. And there I was back in the studio. Yeah. What happened to that footage? How did they decide not to air it today? Well, let me tell you, it was live. It was live. This is a live. It's a live video. But somebody, and I can't tell you who, because I honestly don't know, I never found out, but somebody had recorded it off of the front of a TV screen. Okay. In other words, right off the screen, not taking it. Okay. And I got it. I got a copy of it. But I played it, looked at it. And it was the exact thing that I did. It's the first time I had ever seen what happens. And, and it, it's pretty amazing, you know. Yeah, there's like this white orb. Yeah. And then people tried to reverse it. People said, oh, it's just going one way. And then they turned on reversed and put it back. Well, it isn't. It's a totally different reversal thing. So it's two different things, which is interesting. I find it's not, you know, it's not the exact path, both directions. But it is what I remember. I mean, I did it. I sit there and I was talking and I put it on and it closed. And you can see me grimace when it starts to activate. And, um, it's pretty amazing. I had never seen it. Hmm. Anyway. So I talked to the producer guy, the guy I knew, the number I had. He then informed me that his wife was murdered. And he said, I don't want to be a part of this. And he said, I'm sorry. I ever met you. I'm sorry. And I, you know, I totally understood what he felt like because how would you feel? You know, how would you feel? It's just happened to you. You know, you'd go down all those avenues saying, okay, I'm going to call the police. I'm going to turn you in. I'm going to do a nice thing because that's what I need to do. I said, do what you got to do. But, you know, what do you do when this stuff keeps happening? You know, you end up feeling guilty. It's your fault. If you, those people weren't involved with you, none of this would have happened. Do you, do harbor that guilt for? Absolutely. I do. I feel terrible. You know, and I've tried to reach out to those people and most of them won't even talk to me, you know, once they know it's me. And I don't blame them. I understand. But, you know, I'm a human being too. And I've got to try my best to wade through this. You know, what's next for you? What's the next step for you? I'm here. This is it. One step at a time. You have to understand. And I apologize for this. I don't know you. I don't know of your background other than what people have told me. Okay. They told me that you were really admirable, that you were an honest guy, you were a straight shooter, and that you wouldn't try to attack me. And I'm sure you've heard this. You know, any more, if people try to attack me, I just leave. I just walk away. Because there's no come, you know, there's nothing you can do. No. Everybody has the right to think whatever they want. And like I said, if it was me, if I hadn't witnessed all this stuff and been through this myself, I wouldn't believe it either. And I tell everybody that. And they said, they say, well, you know, I don't know if I can believe that it's okay. Don't, don't put yourself through it. You know, live your life, you know? And then there's people like you who come forward and say, I want, I want to know. I want to know what happened. Okay. I'll tell you what happened, but I can't tell you it's a wonderful ride. No. It's not Disneyland. It's a nightmare. It's an ongoing nightmare. And, and I, any, I have gone to the point where I tell people, if you have an experience, just keep it to yourself, keep it to your family. Don't, don't pass it out. Don't try to, it's not going to get better. I can guarantee you it won't get better. I mean, I did things wrong. Chris, I didn't do this thing. If I had it all over to do again, I'd do things different. I would have drove driven straight back to probably the FBI, carried the body in and thrown it on their desk and say, you know, here I am, take me away, you know, because who knows if they're the bad guys? I had a guy from the FBI that I went and talked to in Seattle after this had been going on a few years because I wanted some help. I wanted somebody to help my parents and what was going on. And he sat me down in his desk in his office and said, John, I was in here. It's my card. He says, I do know what's going on. Thank you for your book. I didn't bring them a book. So, he said, where did you get it? He said, I got it. But he says, there's nothing I can do to help you. It's a totally different department. Yeah, over his head. He says, I can tell you just stay out of the way. So, and that was before a lot of the, yeah, I mean, before I went away for 10 months. But there's a lot of people who know this is true. Okay. They've either seen the body when I initially brought at home the first three days. I mean, because I took a lot of people into my garage and said, this is what happened. This is my dog, you know, and most of those people have been silenced, not necessarily dead, but talked to. Like I said, we did, we did an interview that Jaime used. And Jaime has all this tape. Okay. So, if you want to get that source, he's got it. I don't have it because what I had is gone stolen. The witnesses, the banker and the nurse that worked in my department, both of them tell the full story, how they knew me, how my money disappeared, how my department was torn apart, you know, in one day. And they They were all told not to talk about me. I mean, that's all on film. It's both in Spanish translation and English, okay? One of those people I still know has become a good friend of mine, the banker, woman. But she's changed her whole life. She recalibrated, got into a different industry and excelled in that. So lucky for her and for me, we've stayed friends hard to believe. Before we started this conversation today, you would show me something. Yes. An artifact, we can say. Yes. An item. Yes. That I won't get too much into detail because I'm not sure how comfortable you are with me talking about it, but you did say that I can mention the item. Yes. You can. I've never talked about it before in public. It's a piece of something that I found when I picked up the artifact that was laying on the ground and it looked like a puddle of gold metal foil. And I took it and I kept it for years and I melted it down and I made this out of it. I know the full consistency of it. I know that it's exactly one ounce. I melted it. I polished it and put it in position of being a ring. And it's a 24-karat gold and 1% platinum and the jeweler who helped me do it was a friend of a friend and he actually said if he could have a little piece of it and I gave him a little piece when we were making it. He's the one that analyzed it. He said, "You can't get gold this pure anywhere, anywhere." It's very heavy and it weighs out to one ounce. What's interesting about it is it changes in temperature. If I'm wearing it and Freddy is coming, I know 10 minutes before he's there. He gets warmer. It's really hot. It's hot. Really hot. All right. Notice it's rough on the inside. Yeah. I kept it that way because you ever see the exhibit of King Tut? No. He had a ring that he wore that was very similar to that shape. And on the flat end of it, he had his insignia or whatever, his signature and he'd dip it in blood and then stamp documents with that flat end. Like a sigil. So I thought that was really a neat design. I had seen that and I thought, "Okay, why could just make it look like that?" And that's what we did. That's pretty cool. I mean, this is. It's rough on the inside so that it doesn't slide around when it's on your finger. I wouldn't say me, "I got big fingers." This is amazing. Can we get some footage of this after? Sure. This is amazing, Jonathan. This is the first time he's ever. It's the first time I've ever really talked about it in public. Does it make you nervous to talk about it? Yeah. But again, I am who I am. I've been through hell. I've been through this nightmare long enough. I've tried to tell the story. I've tried to tell this to benefit other people who have either had experiences or might have them in the future saying, "Be very careful what you do once you've had this experience." Because it's not going to turn out happy. At this point in my life, I just want people to understand. I'm just trying to do my best to be a good person. I appreciate your time that you've given me today and that you've given everyone listening. This is one of the wildest stories I think anyone will ever come across. There's so much here. There's so much to absorb and to contemplate. What else do you want to talk about? First of all, keep cold is interesting because it would go down to zero, but it wouldn't go any lower than that. It was an old freezer. Well, the one thing I wanted to ask you about actually was on the Art Bell show, you played the recording of the screen. So I took my camera and I took the recorder and I turned it on and I again opened the freezer and that's when I recorded this sound. Would you play the sound for us once again? Yes. I will. Hold on. Okay. Here it comes. What you then had analyzed by some Japanese people. I went to Japan. They signaled it out to be like this is a fight. Oh, you took it with you as well. And had it analyzed by some metallurgists who were part of the University of Osaka. Yeah. School. Sure. Okay. And they took some samples of it. I don't know how they did it, but they took like x-rays of that. Yeah. They like singled out there. And we're able to see all the layers. There were like 15 layers of this thing. Some of them were like living plant fiber, like the inside of a leaf laying on the whole surface of the thing in one layer, okay? And some of the layers were less than the thickness of a hair, a human hair, 10 microns. And all like a circuit board, all connected both mechanically with a circuit, type board, but also with this living leaf. And they were actually able to sample the leaf. And there was no idea what it was from. There was no. It couldn't tell you what leaf it was. Were these tests ever put out there? Were they ever like made public? I had it all written down into English and stuff and all that's gone. It's all gone. I'm stolen. Have you tried to contact the people in Osaka to like. Oh yeah. Just no longer. They won't talk to me. They won't get back to you. No. They were told not to. And whatever was done was final. How frustrating. You bet. Yeah. And that's the hope that I have is that people throughout this story and. And they've been to realize that there's more to it than just somebody finding something in the woods. Yeah. You know, even though contact in the woods is an important documentary, okay, because it will show you a side of me that I wish I'd never exposed to anybody. This has been overwhelming to me and almost a disaster in every aspect of my life. I survived by the grace of God and by my team who keep me going, who prop me up and kick me in the butt when I need it. It's an ongoing process. But you know, people say, well, you know, why do you keep talking about that? What else do I have, okay? What else do I have to talk about and that it's an important thing? It's a learning thing that I've had to learn and other people should learn, okay? It's not just what you've been given. It's what you do with it. And I don't mean to be preaching, but, you know. It's good advice. Well, whether it's good or not, it's me, you know. And I salute you for taking the time. Well, cheers. And thank you so much. Thank you. And anybody who listens, thank you. Please consider all aspects. All right, Jonathan. Thank you so much. Thank you. Well, there you have it, folks. Murders, cover-ups, alien tech, and televised teleportation. Just a few of the claims that are hard to believe. My personal level of conviction on the subject matter is always pretty low to begin with, and that is no exception here. However, like many cases of alleged age, I think, I don't know. The alleged alien contact, it could be argued that the initial counter was real. And that perhaps the later experiences might be made up or confabulated or built upon. In fact, all those still low, my conviction of the documented video is slightly higher than it was before this interview, only because of his ability to succinctly answer very specific questions in a timely manner, in his body language and recall, seem to be that of someone who believes at least what they're saying. But when it comes to ongoing alien contact, the gadget, the teleportation, or even the ring made from an alleged alien material, my conviction level remains, well, pretty low. But being said, I do appreciate his time and I would encourage anyone interested in this case, to check out the documentary that I've linked below. And now the question that I will leave with you is, "Do you throw everything out the window? Where is there something in this case that strikes you? It's true."