The After Show: Swipe Right on the Devil

Hello, everybody. It's Jeopardy Roberts here with some news to share. The first episode of the screen murder, a new podcast from 2020, is out right now. But if you wanted to get this early, all you got to do is subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple. Our subscribers already listened to that episode weeks ago. Add free. And this week, they're going to be able to listen to episodes one through five. As always, our subscribers have access to hundreds of 2020 episodes going back years. Completely, add free. So if you're interested, subscribe to 2020 True Crime Plus on Apple now. The next chapter is here, the Hulu original series. The secret lives of Mormon wives. Orange County is coming to Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus on November 12th. We've all been shaped by Mormonism in one way or another, but there are moral divides that are pushing everyone to opposite directions. I am here to be a good example of the church. I think it's a cool. We're going to have a problem. Watch the Hulu original series, a secret lives of Mormon wives. Orange County, November 12th. Streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for above the subscribers. Turns apply. Hi everybody and welcome to 2020 The Aftershow. I'm JeopardyRoppers and as always, it's good to have you with us. And today, let me tell you, we have got a fascinating and dare I say jaw dropping episode for you. It's a bit of a turn from our usual offering, but I have no doubt that you are going to be so intrigued by this program because we certainly are. We're taking a closer look at a new Hulu docu series. It's grabbing a lot of attention, swipe right on the devil. And you can imagine what this is all about. It's a frightening play on the online dating world, but really a story of manipulation, of murder, and alleged witchcraft. Pretty bizarre stuff. The story centers around the disappearance and murder of Sydney Lufa, 24-year-old woman from Lincoln, Nebraska. Sydney disappeared after going on a date with a woman that she met on a dating app. It began as a missing person investigation and ultimately would expose a disturbing underworld that involved young women being recruited by a couple who claimed to be witches. And the only way they could unlock their supernatural powers was through murder. Yeah, as I said, it's pretty bizarre stuff. It sounds like something straight out of a Hollywood script, right? Well, it certainly caught the attention of Academy Award-winning director and producer Ron Howard and Brian Grazer who worked on the project. And also another talented director. Today, we're going to get a look at this story because it's a three-part docu series and some of the creative minds behind it are going to talk to us about it. And we're going to begin with director Brian Beagle, who is here with us now. Hey, Brian. Hey, Deborah. Hey, welcome. Thank you. Wow. This is this is some straight stuff. You've directed all kinds of genres from history to sports, but this is a whole different level, isn't it? It is. It's a story that it's almost hard to put into words. Like without experiencing it firsthand and dealing with the characters for over a year and getting to know them, it's almost impossible for for me to wrap my head around how bizarre the story is. And we say characters. I mean, we're talking real life people. I mean, this is true crime. And I'm just curious how you learned about this story because we obviously hear a lot of strange stories here on 2020 and sadly involving murder and, you know, women often who are entrapped, but this is something that is just really strange when you talk about witchcraft and almost like sacrificing really with these women. How did you even hear about this story? Yeah. So technically this was in the public domain. It was an untold story. It had big splash. He headlines back in 2017. And when I came across it, I just instinctively knew that there was more there. And I wanted to dive deep into unfolding this mystery because I don't even consider this necessarily true crime. It's more of a true crime mystery, right? It's not a, it's not a who done it. It's a why done it. Yeah. And that's the thing that gets us to because it's mind-blowing stuff when you talk about like a manipulation, of course, a dating app. Many people can relate to that. Witchcraft, a so-called "coven" and young women who are vulnerable. A lot of elements here that I guess would appeal to people who appreciate true crime. But also as you said a why done it too, what did you make of it once you began to dig into it? You said you knew there was so much more there. And you know, there's a couple. There's a woman who's, as we said, swiping right, having no idea that she's about to swipe into something deadly. Yeah. So that would be Sydney Loof. And the story really centers on, for the first time, I believe the world will get to know who Sydney Loof really was and what happened to her, right? There's been coverage in the Midwest about this story. But no one really knows who she was at heart how much she loved and cared for her family and her friends and for her life to be taken away as such a young age as tragic. And the viewers will get to know her through her own diary entries through exchanges with Bailey Boswell, who trapped her in through her snapchats, through her first person interviews from her friends and most importantly from her family. Well, tell us a little bit about who she was because she lived in Nebraska, fairly small town, but she wound up moving because she was lesbian and she wanted to try to meet other people, a fairly lonely woman. You reveal that in the show and that she's looking to find love. And so she goes on on this site and finds somebody she even posted something ready for my date. So she was somebody who was sort of excited to step out into life, wasn't she? Young woman. Yeah. She was. She came from a really small town, nearly in Nebraska. And she wanted to expand her horizons. She wanted to explore her sexuality. And so she moved to Lincoln, where it's a little more realistic to meet somebody of the same gender. And she was also quite vulnerable and a bit lonely. And so she went on Tinder looking for that connectivity and that love and you know belonging, like most of us want and need in life. And so that that's her essence. Like she was a beautiful soul looking for a connection. And unfortunately, what happened to her is the worst possible thing that could happen to anyone going on and he's dating up. Right. Well, she had one date with this person that she meets online. Somebody named Audrey. And then she's supposed to have another date. And then she disappears her family doesn't hear from her. And suddenly everybody knows something is up. And then there's this investigation and her friend Brooklyn is really quick thinking. And she knows about the date. What leads her to try to flesh this out? Yeah. So I like to I like to say that it was a task force of friends and family and investigators who all sort of piece this together, which happens a lot, by the way, in these true crime stories that we report on 2020. Yeah. But Brooklyn was really instrumental in she literally opened up a fake Tinder account. And she kept swiping and swiping until she saw Audrey's face or a posting of hers. And then so she connected with her on Tinder. And she got her actual phone number. And it's pretty clever. Yeah. She was like doing her own investigation behind the scenes. And then she told the Louvre family like she has the phone number of who Sydney was last with. And she handed it over to the Lincoln Police Department and off they went. That's really pretty amazing. And as I said, on a lot of her in a lot of our 2020 reporting family members, friends, sometimes just sort of take charge. And she really didn't she was crucial in breaking this case. Wasn't she? She was. I mean, even the detectives would say she was the first big break that they got. You know, they had been scratching their heads like where would this girl go? The crime scene didn't look like she was kidnapped. Like she just vanished after a date. And if not for the hard work of her friends specifically, Brooklyn, they were just coming up against dead leads. Well, what we learn in the reporting that you do is so much more about how this woman fell into this trap. So stay put because we want to talk about this Audrey when she swiped and found Audrey. Who was this person? Well, when we come back, executive producer Christopher St. John is going to join us to talk more about that discovery and what the two of you learned while the cameras weren't rolling. So stay with us. Don't go anywhere. This episode is sponsored by the podcast The First 48. For homicide detectives, the clock starts the moment the body is found. If they can't get a lead in the first 48 hours, the chance of solving the case is cut in half. The first 48 has been telling those stories on ANE for two decades. Now it's a weekly podcast and you can follow it right now wherever you get your podcasts. Each week, the first 48 takes you inside the critical first two days of a homicide investigation. The interrogations, the dead ends, the breakthroughs that crack a case wide open. Every hour matters. Every lead either holds up or falls apart. Real detectives, real cases, real stakes. Listen to and follow the first 48 on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts. That's the first 48. ♪ The NBA on ESPN is happening now ♪ ♪ And we're here from all of it ♪ ♪ From the superstar moves to the next gym revolution ♪ ♪ Let's get who we are, boys ♪ ♪ Me and another trade, hey ♪ ♪ We don't just live it, we love it ♪ ♪ Because the NBA is a world of its own ♪ ♪ It's coming now ♪ ♪ So from the biggest names to the biggest moments ♪ ♪ ESPN's where you call home ♪ ♪ If I really can't stop now ♪ (upbeat music) - Welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I'm sitting here with Brian Beagle, who directed the Hulu docuseries Swipe Right on the Devil. And also joining us now is Executive Producer Christopher St. John, who worked on this project as well. Chris, I'm gonna grab my headphones here since you are joining me remotely and check in with you, how are you? - I'm well, how are you, Deborah? - Good, good, so let's start off first of all by talking about the fact that you worked at 2020 many years ago, somehow we never worked together, but I guess we crossed paths through the hallway maybe. Many years ago. I think we did. I was just a lowly production associate at that time. So I was the beginning of my production career, but yeah, 2020 launched me into documentary. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. And back then we were doing all kinds of stories, rarely did true crime. And of course we do a lot of that now. Let's talk about what brought you to this project because you've covered, as I said to Brian, you both have worked on all kinds of other projects, but this one is, I have to say particularly chilling and bizarre and evil and nature. What sort of attracted you to it? Brian said he knew there was more to this than we saw at the surface, what about yourself? - Yeah, well I work with Ron Howard and Brian at Imagine Documentaries and we make all sorts of docs and true crime as well. But we actually don't do a lot of true crime because the story needs to hit a high bar. Like when Brian came in with the accents he had behind the scenes and the story, the twists and turns and just the kind of like unbelievable background of this particular story. We immediately jumped on it. And I think for us, aside from the headline of which craft cult, there was a lot of characters involved that were just, it's like a really rich, character driven story, which is something we're always looking for. - And the mystery of it all too. - So let's talk about this Audrey. It turns out it wasn't Audrey. It wasn't a real, that wasn't her real name. Her name was Bailey Boswell. She was a 31 year old woman who was living with her boyfriend whose name was Aubrey Trail. He was a 51 year old, yeah a little confusing. Tell us a little bit about these two and what you discovered about them. - Yeah, so Aubrey Trail was a 51 year old man with a long history, criminal history and his girlfriend Bailey had less of one, but also had a record. And the two of them had been using Tinder to find sexual partners for the two of them, not individually. And that had, as we pulled on, as the frankly the investigation and then us subsequently making the show, pulled on these threads, we discovered that they'd been luring women into what amounted to a bit of a sex cult. And they used Bailey as bait for lonely, young women in Nebraska and they would arrive at the door and be introduced to Aubrey who they were not expecting and kind of were seduced as maybe the wrong word, but coerced into these relationships where that got frankly more and more twisted as time went by. - Yeah, really twisted because when you talk about them claiming to be witches and as kind of a cult, as you said, how was this supposed to work? So they meet these women. It wasn't going to be, you know, they all just sort of move in happily ever after. It seems so and what we discovered is that it wasn't that these women would show up and they were immediately recruited into some sort of witchcraft cult. They would show up and they would be told that they wanted to hear that they were attractive and beautiful and likable and they actually started a relationship and it was a bit of a slow burn where Aubrey's involvement was introduced slowly and then ultimately at some point when things had gotten a little more serious, Aubrey started to introduce these somewhat strange beliefs about a cult and black magic and the fact that he could read minds or see people where they weren't, when they weren't in the room and that was all tied into other rules of the household, like these young women weren't allowed to wear clothes in the house, they had to call Aubrey daddy. They were all sorts of rules that ultimately like degraded the women but kept them feeling trapped. And yeah, it got to the point where they would, the screw was turned and Aubrey and Bailey ultimately started suggesting sacrificing people in order to bring these women into a world that they said existed but as you watch the show, may or may not have. Yeah, really pretty bizarre stuff. And Brian, we started off talking about Sydney and getting a chance to know her but she wasn't the only woman that is revealed in this series. There are other women too that you both sit down and I want to get your take on them. Just getting them to sit down and talk number one. Brian, let me ask you first and then Chris, you chime in if you would about how hard it must have been to try to get them to recall something so difficult. Yeah, so it was Katie Anna and Ashley. And when we approached them, they were apprehensive. They had lived through a very traumatic experience. They were introduced to Aubrey's beliefs in witchcraft. They were promised that they would have superpowers and so they were struggling with whether they should speak on camera or not and so it was through building relationships and trust with them that allowed them to open up to us and reveal what is just shockingly amazingly crazy. What went on inside Aubrey's house in Wilbur, Nebraska. And the girls believed as much as they wanted to and some of them thought about implementing Aubrey's dark magic into their lives. Did they talk about trying to leave ever? Yeah, so they weren't technically held against their will. Aubrey has this saying about free will. Like he wants a witch to have free will and in that free will, it helps them gain their powers by making certain, let's just call it, human sacrifices. But it wasn't exactly free will because they felt trapped. They were afraid, for sure. I think that there was a real fear and also a real connection to Bailey. These were young women who were all looking for love and they thought they had found it in Bailey. And they had to accept this secondary presence who was scary. And I think that, as Brian said, a lot of them, I find them incredibly brave because they both spoke at a trial which I think we're going to get to. But they also spoke to us because they found it important to let people know this story. And they're still struggling with some of the decisions they made. They don't fully understand why they did what they did. And I think that that's something that we, as the producers of this show, were struggled with as well. It was like, what is the power that Aubrey had? I mean, I don't think he's a witch. But I do think that he has some kind of a superpower. Some persuasive powers. He knows how to let people hear what they want to hear. He has some persuasive superpower, yeah. One thing that was kind of striking is that Anna spoke about herself in the third person. Was that kind of her way of distancing herself from what had happened? Yes. Anna, as much as anyone, was really traumatized by her experience. She was only 18 years old when she met Aubrey and Bailey. And through self-help and through a lot of therapy, she can't even refer to herself as Anna. So she took on a new name, Jaya, which she now calls herself because she doesn't want to go back in her mind to those days when she was sort of under the spell, if you will, of Aubrey and Bailey. How do you think they were able to survive this ordeal? I mean, because we're going to get back to Sydney here, who obviously did not. How were they able to survive? - I think it's like Chris said, these were incredibly brave women. I mean, underneath their vulnerabilities and their longing for love and companionship and just a sense of belonging, they were also truly brave. And their actions dictate that as you'll see in the show when they take the stand and they testify. - I would also just say that I think they got very lucky. I think that there was a lot of luck involved, the timing, I think that for some of them that the spell did actually break and they got away as far as they could. But I think that they were really fortunate 'cause they were in a potentially extremely dangerous situation. - Well, clearly because Sydney was eventually found, her remains were found and pretty gruesome stuff. I mean, in multiple trash bags, I mean, she had been dismembered. She had had a tattoo at one point that read everything will be wonderful someday. Kind of a sad irony there because that was the way investigators were able to identify her, right Chris? - That's right. It was the lyric, a song lyric of something the song that she loved and it was a way for her to remind herself during times when she was feeling a little bit down that this too shall pass, things will get better. And of course, in this case, tragically, it didn't. - It did not. Well, we're gonna take another break and we need to talk about the rest of these two because ultimately Boswell and Trail were arrested and after we come back, we're gonna talk about not only that but the shocking moments that would happen inside the courtroom. So you two stay put and don't you go anywhere, we'll be right back. (upbeat music) - Hey everyone, listen to the All's Fair official podcast, I'm your host, Evan Ross Katz. We'll sit down with the cast and unravel all of the irresistible drama of season two. - People don't know the half of what goes on. - We wanted to die. - Okay guys, let's give it to them. - Watch and listen to the All's Fair official podcast premiering November 4th on Hulu, Hulu on Disney Plus and wherever you get your podcasts. Don't miss All's Fair season two, also streaming November 4th with Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers, Terms Apply. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to 2020 The After Show. I am here with director Brian Beagle and executive producer Christopher St. John who are giving us a look, a behind-the-scenes look and an in-depth look at the Hulu's docu-series, swipe right on the devil. Christopher Aubrey wound up giving a confession on video. So these two were arrested in the death of Sydney Loofe and Aubrey was playing pretty coy for a while and the FBI sort of played a little bit of a game, they wouldn't speak with him, but then he started talking and his confession kind of happened in a bizarre way. Tell us about that. - Yeah, Aubrey, as we mentioned earlier, will tell anybody anything he thinks they want to hear. And he is constantly trying to manipulate and pull strings and he's constantly trying to figure out the best way for it for himself. Ultimately, he confessed to the crime because investigators had been interrogating him and he had been running them around constantly basically and trying to manipulate them into a better deal and they were given the advice, stop talking to him, just step away and they did. They shut the door and they walked away and they didn't come back for weeks and it made him angry and it made him, if not desperate a little bit, he looked for a new way to regain power and he started calling local news outlets and he called a reporter out of the blue from prison and confessed to the murder of Sydney Loofe. He described an entire kind of scenario that doesn't seem to have actually happened but he did say that he had killed her. - It's pretty striking stuff, Brian and we've seen that in a lot of the other episodes that we've covered on 2020 where the suspected person and in this case, the police truly believe that they had that right person under arrest likes the attention and they wind up sort of giving themselves up because they want the attention. I mean, in this case, it seems like the same kind of psychological profile. - It is, but it also is. Like Aubrey is a very manipulative person and you have ulterior motives for confessing and you'll learn that when watching the show and I also can say I talked him on the phone for over a year in getting to know him and getting inside his mind which took his story on a very wide path and allowed us the access that we had to get inside his head. - And what did you think trying to get inside it? I mean, what did you learn about him? - I learned that he's a very twisted person, he's scary, he's manipulative and he has a belief system that most people would not really understand. - So there's some pretty creepy stuff including in the courtroom, dramatic stuff that I think will shock viewers. - Yeah, there is an event that happens in the courtroom that we don't wanna say too much about here, but ultimately, I think, is an unbelievable twist that's truly shocking and was shocking for people present in the room that day and it was all about, again, Aubrey trying to take control in a situation where he had none and it kind of sends the investigation and the trial off in a whole other direction. - Pretty shocking stuff. I think viewers will really be stunned by. Chris Bryant said something about getting to know him a little bit more and his, obviously, kind of a twisted mind, but what you also reveal is a little bit about his background and who he, I mean, maybe not necessarily portraying him sympathetically, but giving a sense of who he is. Why was that important to you? - You know, I think that we, that I personally, and that we had imagined documentaries, think it's important to show characters in there as they're full selves, as fully three-dimensional as possible, and we did that both with the victims, the young women who were pulled into the craziness of Aubrey and Bailey's household, but we tried to do that with the culprits as well. I don't think it makes them necessarily more sympathetic. It certainly doesn't excuse the awful, awful things that they did, but it gives you a fuller picture of this world that they were occupying and maybe provides some small-- - Maybe understanding, or just somehow figuring him out? - Maybe just an attempt to understand what is going on in this man's head, which I'm not sure, even now, two years later, I have any idea of what's going on in this guy's head. - How about you, Brian? - Yeah, I'm glad you asked me, because I think Chris hit on something important, which is the understanding of it all. This is the first time that viewers, or the world, basically will understand what happened to Sidney Loof. There have been so many questions and so much speculation, but the work that we did with Imagine and the help of Hulu and the collaboration, we've uncovered quite a unique story, one that is almost like to unbelievable, to believe. - Right, right, it almost feels like it had to be scripted. One other thing that was pretty strange is hearing Aubrey talk about the murder, and said something that he doesn't regret the murder, but the person he and Bailey chose to murder. What do you think he meant by that? - My understanding is that his regret for murdering Sidney Loof particularly was because that got him caught. Her family cared so much about her, her friends, as we discussed, did their own little investigation that they reported her missing within, I believe, 24 hours, and that speaks to the testament of how Sidney was loved, and that's Aubrey's regret that he chose the wrong person. He chose someone who had a family that really cared about her. - Chris, I'm curious, you know, when we cover these stories, it's always hard, especially when they're such disturbing, chilling, disgusting things that happened, and in this case, it certainly did happen. Give us a sense of how you went about trying to present this so that it was something that the audience could pay attention to, but without being so horrified. - It's an excellent question because it's the story is horrifying, the specifics are horrifying. Some of the footage we had access to was horrifying, and ultimately it's a constant one decision after another of how to, what to include, not to include, and we tell the full story, we're not hiding anything, but we don't need to get into some of the most grizzly details, be you understand at a certain point, right? So I think that for us, the more important question than what the details are is the why of it all. Why would something like this have happened? Why was it? Sydney, so vulnerable. Why did she get, why was she the one who was killed? And I think that this is a testament to Brian's reporting going into this really got Aubrey to tell us on camera on a Zoom from death row where he sits today, why he did it. And he hasn't said that anywhere else. He didn't say it in a trial. He didn't say it to investigators. But he said it to us. And it's in the show. And it's a chilling reason. You will learn more about what that's all about when we see it. But do you come away from this to both of you come away from this with more questions? Or do you feel like you kind of finally understand this case? I think that I understand it as best as I can. I think that we did a really good job breaking down what happened. And to a certain degree, why it happened, I think that there is a dark part of both Aubrey and Bailey that will never quite reach. And you Brian, do you feel you came away with more questions? Or do you feel that they're answered? I feel like from an investigative standpoint, we've answered all the questions that really were still out there. My remaining question would be, how do the loofs truly feel eight, ten years later about the tragedy that happened to Sidney? I can only understand what they say to me, but I'm not in their minds and in their hearts. So my only question would be like, how do they, how do they sit with this? You know, we try to really have a focus in our 2020 episodes about the victims. I mean, not just about the crime and the perpetrator, but really honoring the victims. And it seems that you both really made an effort in this case to not just talk about these grisly things that happened, but you're talking about a family. You know, you're talking about a woman. You're talking about other women who were affected by this. And it seems like that was a big focus of what you were working on for this project. Yeah, it was. And I'll just add that in a strange way, with a dark setting of a story, there were more heroes than there were villains, right? Sidney's family, her friends, the detectives, they all came together and they helped shine Sidney's light on what would otherwise be a very dark setting. And I think that comes through in the show, and ultimately it's a takeaway, and a testament of who she was. How important was that to you, Chris, to shine that light? It was absolutely fundamental. I think that like the reason we were initially drawn to the story is the headlines of witchcraft and sex cult, for sure. But ultimately, I think that this is such a universal story about the vulnerability that arrives when you long for belonging, which is something that we all feel. The Lou family, I think, felt slightly betrayed by the initial coverage of this story. They felt like their daughter, who had been murdered, was painted as a witchcraft cult member. And in truth, she was anything but she was a young woman going out on a date. And as one of our investigators says, like before she hung up the phone, she was dead like that was it. And so I think it was very, very important for us to tell that story, to describe the circumstances that allowed a situation like this to arise. And yet, onto the victims, I think that more important than talking to someone on death row is remembering the people that they touched. Well, clearly you do that in this piece. It's a fascinating, fascinating three part series. Thank you both, Brian and Chris, for being with us today. And you can catch swipe right on the devil out now on Disney Plus and Hulu. Again, thank you both for coming in and thank you listeners for choosing to spend your time with us today. And of course, you can always find 2020 on Friday nights on ABC. And you can stream episodes just like this one any time on Disney Plus and Hulu. Thanks so much and have a good day everybody. Hi, I'm Andy Richter. I might not have won the Miraball last season. That was so fun that I did win the best gig ever, hosting the Dancing with the Stars official podcast. Get ready for all the inside scoop from the cast. Alright, let's get to work behind the scenes secrets and more from every episode. That was long story. It's going to be iconic. All my dreams are coming true. Dancing with the Stars official podcast. New episodes every Thursday on Disney Plus and Hulu and wherever you get your podcasts. This war amongst us has got to end. The Hulu original phenomenon, All's Fair returns. You got one shot to make this right. I'm not saying I hate you, but I would unplug your life support to charge my phone from executive producer Ryan Murphy. I will not stop and I will win. Let's give these girls a show. This is going to be a good task. The Hulu original series All's Fair premieres November 4th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for more subscribers. Terms apply.