The Addiction to Connection (ft Aidan Bissett)

Somebody asked me how I define myself and I didn't know what to say because how can someone be defined when we're always evolving? I've been so many things. I'll be so many others. Because identity is not a performance, it's an exploration. Never the same, but always myself. That's the paradox. Paradox Intense and the new Sweet Chemistry by Prada. Find more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Is it just me or does everyone's love life feel like a disaster these days? Situationships, talking stages, low effort texting, going back to your ex. It's like we'd rather stay stuck in something that we know is bad for us than risk being alone. And why? Because connection, even when it's toxic, is still connection. And we are addicted to it. The dopamine rush of attention, the illusion of intimacy, the validation of being chosen even if it's only temporary. We crave the high of a connection more than we actually want the health and consistency of that connection itself. So we go back, even when we know better. Not because we think it'll work this time, but because we're scared of what life might look like without them. So you dress it up in these aesthetics like Delulu or red flags and jokes about how you can fix him to make it feel ironic, but in the end, you're still left with that sinking feeling again. The realization that maybe you never really felt safe or loved to begin with. We don't just fear being alone. We fear being without a connection, even if that connection is making us miserable, getting caught in those same cycles over and over again. So how did we become so addicted to this connection? And how can we break that spell? What better guest to have today than Aiden Bissett, who just wrote an entire album exploring this exact topic. You may know him from songs like More Than Friends. Tripping Over Air, or Ultraviolet. But Shut Up and Love Me goes so much deeper into these feelings of heartbreak and our addiction to that connection. So with that, welcome back to Nikki and I. I'm your host, Nikki Riordan, and so honored to welcome our guest today, Aiden Bissett. Aiden Bissett: Thank you for having me. I'm stoked to be here. Thank you for having me. Big fan. Thank you. And friend of the show. Long time friend of the show, truly. Yeah, seriously. And I'm very, very interested to hear your perspective on this music. I think you've changed a lot as a person since I met you the first time. When I moved here, I was very young. I was 18. I was naive. And I think when I met you, I was also like, what was it, a couple of years ago? Yeah, like two or three years ago. Yeah, yeah. So I probably was a teenager still. And going through such a stark change of going straight from high school into a city where you're working, I kind of got thrust into the dating pool of people in their mid to late 20s. And there's a lot of pros to that. I learned a lot. Yeah. Let me tell you, breakups change you. Yeah, for sure. And at the same time, it's like you, when you, that sort of perspective, there's like, for me, you lose a bit of that innocence, you know, that like. Oh, totally. You know, that childhood of like, oh, this young love sort of thing. And, you know, with More Than Friends, it's like, it is very young and innocent and naive. In a beautiful way, though. In a beautiful way. Yeah. Which is why I love, I love that song. And like, and I still love that song because it is like a magnifying lens into what, who I was when I was 17 or 18 years old. Yeah. Pining for a young girl who, you know, I ended up falling in love with, who's actually all on the cover of that. Really? She's on the cover of that. I love that. It's the crazy story. Lore. No, the lore behind that is actually so nuts. She was like the only girl I really liked in high school. And she told me no so many times to dating. She was like, nah, we're just friends. We're just friends. We're just friends for like three months. And I was like, no, I'm gonna, we're gonna date. Six times the charm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, I feel it. And yeah, one day, I was like, I'm gonna date. And it just like happened. And, and it was the day that I like asked her to come and be a part of this cover shoot for this song. The music got her. The music got her. 100%. Yeah. You gotta work. Hey, you gotta work what you have. You know what I mean? Like, Yeah, no, I guess. I mean, like, guy with the guitar, you know, John Mayer, who cares, you know? No, literally. Yeah. Um, but no, it was literally, we had like, our first kiss was an hour before that shoot. And we like went to this house. And I'm like, I'm on top. I'm up. Big moment for you. It was big moment for me. I was so up. It was the first time I like really got the girl that I was like, you know, I really was going for and, and yeah, we're at this shoot. And I'm just like, wow, this is like, so sick, because it's real now. And we are more than friends. And we're literally shooting the cover. Yeah. Yeah, I did. And she's a wonderful girl. Wonderful, wonderful girl. And we're still very close friends. But um, Yeah, but you know, with that, and then songs like when I die and blood type at the end of the album, it's dealing with a much heavier side of relationships and love. And it's very those songs specifically are very introspective. It kind of Oh, yeah, you know, sums up the idea and, and, and conflict of what I was having with that inner monologue, with connection and being addicted to this, you know, idea of connection, right? I felt when I was like, I was writing the projects that I was putting myself and others in position of emotional harm, to find, you know, that connection, whatever it may be, whether it's friends, relationships, what do you mean by like, emotional harm? I was, I was being very inconsiderate in a way to, to fit to find this feeling, you know, and I was putting myself in places of harm as well doing things that I knew weren't good for me, just because, you know, maybe it would lead like, like you said earlier, like it would lead to something. Even when you know, it's not good for you. And those songs just like, it is that realization, I wanted to end the album in a way that that wasn't like, Oh, no, I'm fine. Yeah, that's like, not how that works. You're not just like, become good. And you're like, Oh, whatever. I'm going to be super positive and amazing. Now. No, it's like, that moment of realization is really powerful. And it's being able to look in the mirror and say, wow, I'm a little messed up right now. And, and, and I need to figure out what I'm supposed to do. And I need to figure it out. I don't know how I'm gonna figure it out. Yeah, at least I recognize something is wrong. Oh, totally. And it's like such an interesting, something you said, like, I think it's so interesting when people write about like the ambiguity, and like the nuance of not this like, perfect, could he cookie cutter thing, it doesn't always been like randomly some like gripe I've had with the way, like, Hollywood depicts love versus the way that like music depicts love of like, it's always like, the end. They're together now, or like, they're not together, but he met someone else at the same place. And it's like, 99% of relationships end in breakup, like some sort of emotional devastation for one person. And not 99% of movies are made from that perspective. And I think that's like, what's really, like refreshing to listen to a song about like, when I die. And also it being very not like, it's like talking about this idea of love, but like, not about the other person, but like, who am I now? Yes, I think this is super interesting. And specifically, there's this one line in the song that I love, I want to ask you about is like, you say, what if the silence is something that I'll grow to love? What if the crying is there to remind me of what was I feel most alive thinking about when I die? What specifically, like that last line? Like, why do you feel so alive thinking about when you die? I think that death, in a way is an ultimatum, you know, or it can be. Okay. And depending on how you look at it, but I think in that moment, I felt like it was an ultimatum where and thinking about death in such a way that's like a harsh change. I felt like my life was so stagnant. And I was in this, I was in this, you know, this loop, this, this addiction that was just constantly repeating the cycle of repeat. And that thing that I thought, an idea was like the only thing that kind of felt like I could break out of that loop, which is really dark and sad. But it was the one thing that felt like, I didn't think I could ever do it. But it was just something that, that made me feel like, oh, it's still life. I don't know if that makes sense. But like, life is still life. And breaking out of that loop is like, it's something that I got to figure out how to do. Yeah. Or stopping it before it begins, which is arguably harder. Because there's always like the what if? And also having this, like, realization of like, delaying the inevitable is not a solution. Yeah. kind of sucks when it's very comfortable to like be in whatever thing you're in all the time. And I also think like even like going back to the line of, of, you know, like feeling alive when I think about when I die, like to me, the way I interpreted that was very much like about perspective and how much of like what is important in life. And how like, I think like most of the things that we obsess over, like if you were to write a, you know, a list of things that you like stress about the most on a daily basis and then write a list of things that make you the most happy, I think they would be completely opposite things, which is like really crazy to think about that. Like we spend some of our time and energy on things that like we know don't make us happy and don't care. Yeah. Um, and thinking about this idea of like death and legacy and you know, who will care? Like if that were to happen to you, knock on wood, who would care? Like, like, is it like an interesting thing? Like, I don't know. Like, no, for sure. And, um, I, I lost my dad a few years ago and like that, I remember that, like having that sort of moment that you're describing in this song of like, like this realization about mortality and that that feels like this one day type thing, but you never know when it's going to come and that should change the way that you engage with the relationships that you're in. Yeah. Yeah. Similar to like what you said, like with, uh, yeah, where I felt like I was stuck, you know what I mean? Like, like I felt like no one, even though I know people would care, but there was a moment of time where I was just, I felt so stuck and so stagnant and, and I didn't feel like I had people in proximity, you know, obviously I have family back home who are amazing, but people in proximity to me or immediate proximity, I felt like there was, I was asking that question, you know, would anyone care? Oh yeah. You know, um, or care in a deep enough way that that wasn't just like, I'm going to comment on Instagram. Love you. Happy birthday. Yeah. Like, Oh, like sorry for your loss. No, totally. I mean, that's like also like weirdly I think about this a lot. It was like my birthday randomly. It's like, I'm like, it's just like my once a year, like I'm kind of taking inventory a hundred percent. Like it's like, it's not like good or bad or like personal, but it's like, I am really thinking about, you know, I asked everybody a month in advance to show up to this thing. And there's people who did and people who didn't. And it's like that, like you, you feel who cares and why they care and how they care. Um, but something you said earlier, you talked a lot about like being stuck. Yeah. Like go deeper. What do you mean stuck? Like stuck professionally, romantically, like where's this feeling of stickiness? Yeah. I think most of it was like a lot of it of that was romantic and like friendships. I felt for a long time, honestly, finding friends in the city, it was just like really tough for me. And I had been bouncing around a bunch of different friend groups, but it never felt like I cracked deep enough through the surface of those groups to a point where they would care about me on more than just a surface. Level. Yeah. Which is very Los Angeles. Yeah. It's very Los Angeles. Like there's a lot of these groups and they seem online. They seem, thank you, Siri. Let's go. She does. But yeah, they're like the, the, I think the most LA thing is something seems so great online. It seems so amazing. Yes. These friend groups seem so connected and so in love with each other. They're doing such cool things. Yeah. Cool things. Really traveling all that. And it's like you pull back the curtain. It's like, wow, there's like, they hate it. They kind of hate each other. It's crazy how often that happens. You're like, Oh my God, you guys like talk trash about each other behind each other's back every day. Oh yeah. It's so nice. And about like other people in the group as well. Like specifically. And that is this very like weird thing. Los Angeles specifically, I guess. Cause it's just like many people all moving for pursuit of like entertainment based careers, I guess New York very similarly. But like one, I think that element of like people feeling like they have something to gain from each other. Yeah. So they, they remain friends and air quotes with like people they don't actually like or care about. And two, I think that that is like such a coming of age experience with like moving to the city of like, you will have a terrible friend group in Los Angeles for sure. It's like right of passage, right of passage. Yeah. And you're never going to know that it's them when it's them or like why or how. Um, but it is this thing that is inevitable somehow. Yeah. But I also, again, like talking about this idea of perspective, like I think a lot of my experience, as with bad friends are what made me value the friends that I have now. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. I think that's really important to have that perspective. Yeah. Or just like you realize like what is meaningful, you know, again, like even like something stupid, like a birthday dinner or whatever is like who showed up. Like I asked you to show up to this thing. Like are, you know, are you down or not? And I think that that's like a, a very unique thing. And then especially again, talking about this, like cycles and addiction to connection. Yeah. Um, that happens with friendships when you move. Also, where did you go? Where did you move from? I grew up in Oregon, but lived in Florida for two years before I moved here. Oh, I'm from Virginia. Oh, yeah. Did you go to Disney world a lot? I did. I go, this is a crazy lore about me and I, maybe I've talked about this once before, but my family goes to Disney every, every, I love that every Christmas. I love that. That's some good, like Disney adult East coast. Yeah. Family shit. Yeah. It's crazy, but I love it. It's like my whole dad's other family. We all go together. And we are like the park people. I saw this tweet one time that was like, do you love Disney or is it just a walkable city? And I was like, Oh, they're right. That's kind of tough though. It's like, you can just like hang out with your friends and like walk to some sort of entertainment and like eat food. I was like, that's so fair. It's like the right Disney's on magic. It's just, it's just walk. It's just everywhere else in Europe. Yeah. It's like really, it's rough out here. It is rough, but going into some other songs on the album and also like some of the more upbeat songs I think is interesting. I guess like specifically I'll, I'll start with ricochet. Yeah. One sonically. I was like very like the first thing I noticed was like the guitar. I'll be so many others because identity is not a performance. It's an exploration. It's an exploration. That's the paradox. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. 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It's, you know, like Arctic monkeys and strokes and coin and the 1975 even. Um, and now it's like, we're back to eighties, I guess. Yeah. Which is really interesting. It is really interesting. I think the, yeah, specifically like, like true eighties is having a massive resurgence right now, which is really fun. Like, like McGee and Dijon, like they're really, you know, doing their big one right now with that. And, and it's, you know, the Justin Bieber album just came out and it's eighties inspired. Yeah. Like all throughout it. Um, I'm a big, big, big fan of any kind of like rock, like eighties rock, seventies rock. Um, like that's always just been a huge inspiration for me. I grew up listening to that. I grew up listening to that stuff. Yeah. And I agree. I think it's taken on many forms. Um, but I do feel like this resurgence is like the truest or the closest it's been to like that sound, like the, the, the eighties sound like it, you, it feels like those guitar sounds like bringing back the VGA, like the synth, the Junos, like that sounds like eighties, which is like, cool. And I, I've always had a lot of that. I feel like throughout my music. And when I started writing, I started writing this one like two years ago, this album. And, um, a big proponent of it was like eighties bands and like, you know, the blue Nile and you know, all that sort of stuff is like really been a really big part of my journey. And it's just, for me, it's just really cool to see like people pulling that inspiration. Now that being said, I feel a hot take coming. There is a hot take. I love it. No, I've been thinking about this hot take for a while and I have not said it yet. So this is going to be, this is going to be a first hot take for me. And I love hot takes. They're like the best thing. So I love McGee. I love Dijon. I think they're so cool. I can't do any more of the dudes on the internet who just copy the sound and then claim it as like not copying Dijon or McGee. Like I get what you're saying. It's so insane. Like it's to a point they've like created offspring, which is natural. Like that's so sick. And I'm, and I'm so down for that. I think where, and I was like, I was having this conversation with someone the other day. think inspiration is obviously the greatest thing ever and and it there all music is derivative right and if you're going as i said if you're gonna like kind of rip off a song that's okay just make sure the song that you make is still good yeah you know what i mean if the song is a rip-off and it's bad i'm just like you shouldn't have done that like like there's just for me i'm just like there has to be some level of like oh totally of your own heart and your own authenticity within the music and i feel like there's a lot of that happening right now with this 80s stuff specifically yeah where i'm like it doesn't i don't believe the words coming out of your mouth it just feels like you're trying to fall in line with whatever the sound is yeah it's cool yeah i mean and there is like some sort of like authenticity to taste i think oh my god yeah people put on this facade yeah they're just like i'm cool because i listen to these artists and i make music like these artists that doesn't make you cool what makes you what makes those artists cool is their conviction not only their conviction their decisiveness and the way that they want to make music that's what makes them cool and part of that conviction is doing it when it's not cool exactly like that's a really big again like i the artist i always think about this is lana del rey yeah right like lana del rey is so cool now what was interesting about lana del rey is like she was clowned on for like five years so until one day like everybody decided to wake up and like got a tumblr account and was like wait she's a poet yeah and you know like i remember like when her um snl performance happened and like that type of thing and like nobody took her seriously and then speaking about these like when they have awesome music and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god like when they have offspring you know like you see the addisons and the nessa barretts and madison beers and ethel kane and you're like oh like i know you listen to lana girl yeah you know what i mean um but i think like something interesting about it is self-awareness yes too you know like um like a song like diet pepsi is like so blatantly lana del rey but like in a way that's not trying to hide it exactly which i think makes it fine well and not only is she not trying to hide it i think that like like i said if you're gonna like take inspiration just make sure you're the song you're making is still good that's a great song that's awesome that's incredible i mean that whole album for me is like top down is one of the one of the best albums this year and yeah you can tell she pulled inspiration from a lot of that stuff and but but it still feels very authentic to what she's doing i believe the words coming out of her mouth right i mean right which i think is the important difference yeah and i think that also um you know like with a lot of the conversation going around like i remember this like when like harry styles used to get a lot of of hate um especially like when he started being like a solo artist yeah and i think something interesting about like the phenomena that you're describing is like um sometimes it has to be earned oh for sure like sometimes you have to stick to one thing for six years yeah and then people are like okay i believe this is who you are yeah you know what i mean and i think that was like something very uh like with harry that like really like people latched on to you know in the beginning there was like a lot of discussion and stuff about like what he was wearing yeah and he didn't care you know like it was like well this is who i am and like i can talk about it and i can explain it but there's people who are not going to listen and i'm just gonna keep doing it and over time like you have to like respect kind of you know what i mean like you have to be like well like he must mean it if it's been six years or something yeah i agree yeah what does that old saying like respect is not earned or no respect is not given it's earned you know what i mean yeah yeah i completely believe that if you stick to it and you're like make it you yeah for sure you just have to stick to it there's who like pull out and they're like ah you know yeah and then that's why i think it looks worse yeah and then you're like oh well then that obviously wasn't it's like well you were lying this time or you're lying now exactly yeah exactly like which one is it yeah exactly um and yeah that's like again like this this like authenticity to taste i think is like a really um interesting thing like you you can tell what they like yeah and if it's clear that they actually like that it's cool and fine i guess i don't know it's like one of those weird music things where like i but it's it's very much something like i've noticed and like the way like fan behavior yeah works i think there's a lot of like there's a lot of pretentious taste out there and people like hold that as like a value system and i'm like that's so dumb like music is music and if you like the music you like own that just own it you know what i mean no totally and one of the guests had this quote that i love it's like his hot take was like there's no such thing as bad music there's just music that's not for you sure like there is music that is written by somebody like it's about her breakup when she's a 16 year old girl and you're a 35 year old man it doesn't mean that the song is bad it means that the song is not written for you you know what i mean and like there's a 16 year old girl out there who is you know checking some guy's snapchat score and like that means something to her yeah and that uh like so much of music is based off that yeah and also i think weirdly like um like i think the people that don't do well aren't people who make bad music it's people who i don't understand who the music is for yeah and i think a lot of that has to come down to your artistry to be honest with you is like music a song is a song you know but again at the end of the day it has to come from a place of authenticity and like and you have to build a world yeah that's your artistry yeah um why why are you doing this yeah and like a very fascinating thing about i think the era of music we're in is like you could make the argument i'm not saying i believe this you could make the argument that music actually really doesn't matter that much like like there are a lot of artists that are successful like because they are interesting as a person of course or they have really compelling visuals or um they are really great at doing like press and stuff like there's like this idea of like an artist being just a song is like i think died with the radio because so much of the way we discover music now is visual like most of the time you hear a song for the first time you are scrolling on tiktok watching a music video seeing some sort of podcast or something like like the majority of music discovery is a visual medium yeah um and i think like a lot of the artists who like really figured it out especially last year i think it was like when everybody really finally woke up to this were people who figured out how to like build a world really effectively um like the example i always use whenever i talk about this is sabrina carpenter yeah i think she's like such an interesting one because one hasn't been using for a long time and it like wasn't as successful then she has like you know like the nonsense outros and it's like the little sexual thing blah blah blah and then you know like does espresso and then like does an entire album of like i'm just gonna lean into this like funny gimmick that i did on tour and it just like overnight she becomes literally a top 10 artist in the world yeah it's like the quality of the music didn't really change that much like really the only thing that changed was like this adherence to some sort of character yeah and this adherence to some sort of uh like ethos or like what you stand for or why people like you know i mean like if you if you find this type of humor funny if you find sexual funny you like spring carpenter's music right like it's direct like line i'm like i get who it's for it's not super deep it doesn't like espresso is not profound it's just fun yeah it's fun like it's just fun yeah um and so much of music is that right like i also another hot take don't think you have to have a reason for liking or disliking a song like i think you can just oh i completely agree with that vibes i will stand by that there's some songs i'm just like i hate this i hate it i can't tell you sometimes in a week i'll do um like reaction videos and stuff yeah because i'm like i sometimes i just hate stuff like i don't know and i'm not trying to like i'm with you like or sometimes i've had many experiences where i hate something on first listen and then either like sit with it longer or really have like a specific memory or moment that i then like start to identify with the song that then like opens me up to it yeah do you know what i'm saying yeah yeah for sure which is also interesting again and like talking about the the idea of like visuals and building the world is like i think artists who are ones who are good at giving that moment for them yeah you know what i mean like that was like charlie right it was like big one you're gonna see me i'm gonna bring 30 people on stage of the grammys i'm gonna shut down times square and i'm gonna do this thing in you know upstate new york like it was this everywhere she went was a party therefore she is the party girl therefore when you go to party you listen to this album yes um interestingly though i don't feel like we have a lot of men doing this yes i kind of agree with you in that sense it's like you know i think world i agree with you is probably the most important part of your artistry yeah um whether that's visually sonically uh down to like merch and and what you're selling like there's so much that goes into that that i think builds you out that that again stems back to your why and why you're doing something in your artistry um and i agree i don't think there's a lot of men outside of like harry yeah who is doing it and justin justin yeah yeah but even still like love justin and now i think the album sounds really cool there wasn't a lot of world built around the album outside of him having to crash out online yeah you know what i mean so like there wasn't a lot of context to what the music was and where we were going to be as a listener and as a fan um but that doesn't take away from the music music's great it's also like the luxury of being an established artist that's what i was gonna say like you're just like yeah i can't drop something and i the 200 million instagram followers exactly like they'll figure it out you know what i mean like the same thing with like billy you know what i mean yeah it was my favorite album of last year but like she didn't market it literally did not do any singles didn't do anything like yeah even down and i'm a huge huge huge billy for that album specifically i love so much but even down the videos like they weren't really connected there wasn't like a lot of like intense world building that went no on in the sense of like even compared to her last projects you know there was there was very especially her first yeah yeah yeah like i remember when she was the girl crying ink yeah of course yeah and even like the like old hollywood vibe of the other one i was just like yeah there was very much a specific thing and there's a lot There's definitely a luxury once you reach like peak status, you're just like yeah i am that good at making music yeah and i can just like i'm just gonna put it out which is awesome but in the developmental stage i think a lot of artists have reached this weird battle with social media where you know we're being told that you know social media is very very very important i was gonna ask you about that yeah yeah it's it's like it is the driver it's the money maker it's what yeah you know dictates streams you know so this spotlight has been put on you know short form content and and quick quick gratification um which i think has taken away from this idea of world building totally um for for all developing artists not just men but all developing artists and it's really sad to see to honestly because i i think the world building is it's it's so not only is it fun but it's just like it separates you it's what makes you right an artist and i think a lot of people are struggling because i think there's two sides of this i think a lot of people are struggling because they're being told short form is the way to go okay and that you need to be making x amount of videos because that's what's gonna get you x amount of streams yeah i think there's a flip side of this which is a darker side of it because there is essentially no barrier for entry in music anymore yeah anyone can do it right anyone can start yeah speaking from experience yeah i've downloaded a software i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god on my computer and just like started one day yeah um and you can post online i do think there is a side of music now that this is a real hot take that people are trying to access because they want to become famous and it's the easiest and quickest way to become famous for sure yeah i think this is true of all many many aspects music being a big one yeah where um their primary motivator is not to have an artistic statement it's to get famous and it's to get people to miss yep um i've had a lot of conversations with artists about this um and it's like interesting too like you know what i mean i'll even ask them like and i don't think they like directly state it most of the time but i'll ask them like oh like what are you you know most excited about what there's projects and they're like oh i can't wait to be on stage and i'm like is that the you know what i mean and it's like in some ways i'm like okay is that because you like are really excited to feel people like in in enjoying your music and like that physical connection like means something to you or like yeah do you want to be in a room with a bunch of people who are screaming your name yeah um and that i i think you're 100 right i think that's super super real i am very interested in like your relationship and perspective with this idea of like um being a internet homegrown artist essentially right like i you started you made a song you put on the internet it did well that got you attention that got you a record deal yeah um because from the outsider perspective don't make music can't sing you wouldn't want to hear me sing it is i think the there's never been a better or easier time to be an artist 100 it there is more tools at your disposal the gatekeepers of the industry have the least amount of power that they've ever had um and all the time here these random stories people like you they make a song and it does well like that was literally impossible even 20 years ago right like you have a label they had a picture song to a radio station um and there had to there was you know like you got to some level where you could have three gatekeepers that would like do all that work for you yeah i think what is interesting about the era of music we're in now is because all of those things have been removed one there's no like universal like metric of success like i think back in the day they were like if you got three songs on the radio like you made it you know what i mean like they're like you're gonna have a music career and like we we're gonna get those songs gonna play all the time for a year and like you're gonna be able to sell out a tour and in the era of the internet that's not true like we never really like know that or feel that or you even see it's like we're like those stories like creators at vidcon that have like millions of followers and like you know can't even like do a meet and greet or whatever um like this idea of the internet made it so they were more reliant on data than they ever have been but i think that like quantitative aspect exactly what you're saying made them like disregard the artistry component of like what music is yeah um and and like depth of connection you know like there's no there's no metric that can be like this is how much this person likes you you know what i mean um and is willing to pay for a concert ticket or show up or um tell your song to one of their friends you know what i mean um is this interesting thing but i don't know it's something i struggle with a lot yeah i mean i struggle with it all the time because again like everything has become a data-driven game yeah um and you're right you can't measure how much somebody is a fan of you um like you said there's people going to vidcon and they have millions of followers but nobody's showing up for me yeah you know why is that i think for like for me i think it's it has to do with culture and like you're and how you are as an artist are moving culture absolutely you know if you're you know having a bunch of videos online blow up like that's sick but followers online don't necessarily mean anything to me at least like it's it's a good place for marketing and that's great yeah but how are you as an artist moving the culture charlie is a great example of this and we can just go back to her she completely changed the face of what people thought pop music could be yeah you know what i think she changed like what an album rollout 100 it was that was the peak epitome of what world building and artistry should be every artist should look to her rollout as a guide in my opinion for sure and like the justin bieber swag cover it's like four letters four letter word one color text i'm like what's going on we know cash out with a little pink thing yeah and i love so those are one of those things where i'm like i love because i'm like oh we're feeling the impact you know but it's also one of those things where it's like we do more yes we did this you already we just did this yeah yeah when you're at that level again the music is great but when you're at that level you you have culture wrapped around your finger yeah you know what i mean he's still at a peak level so for any artist if you're wondering why you can't sell a ticket or you can't do x y and z it's like you have to like look inward and be like again back to this what is my why why am i doing this how how am i going to take the things that i want to say and how is that going to impact the people that i want to impact yeah you have to have a very specific specific vision in what you're doing you can't just put something out online and say cross your fingers and say well i hope this blows up okay why is that going to impact the people that i want to impact yeah you can't just put something out online and say okay why do you hope it blows up yeah if you're not if you don't or who is going to like it yeah if you don't know the answer to that question people they're not going to buy tickets your show because you don't know what you want and you don't know what you want as an artist so like i think that when it comes to visuals i think it's very i think you know social media tiktok instagram all that stuff youtube it is a very important piece of the puzzle and i think every artist should utilize that yeah i'm not a i'm not a fan of like people being like screws short form all together i think it's so dumb and i think that's so dumb it's like no come on like let's be realistic this is the digital age yeah i mean you have a free tool use it literally like figure out how to use it to to your own way you know yeah and i do think it's important to like have that as a piece of your puzzle should that be the main piece of your puzzle not necessarily no i think that there's like some people will argue that music videos are dead and i'll look them in the face and i think you're stupid no i actually i'm with you yeah it's never been more important i completely i mean i think music videos are what really popped addison's for sure album off for sure like that sort of world building obviously like yes big budget and they got mitch to do it and he's like unreal he's like one of the best yeah but that's also part of like doing like that's like that's i think one of addison's biggest skill sets is her ability to craft a team a hundred percent and i think people think that that's like a cop out and i'm like no that's like arguably the most important yes that's taste is understanding like oh this is a producer and like even if you're not max martin what you're doing is cool i want to work with you like that's taste exactly and and important in a skill that i think like artists need huge skill to be able to be decisive in the people that you like and the style that you like is a very respectable skill to have and uh yeah i think she really really nailed it with those videos and if even if you don't want to do it you know i obviously can't afford that level of stuff but like you can do things on a smaller scale you can run and gun you can go do diy to a certain extent and and create you know a visual world like like for stuff on tour like i had my videographer christian who's so talented he was creating these like basically like cinematic trailers in a way of like what the tour was and like where it was going for that yeah like you can even do stuff on like a small scale like that that still shows who you are visually it's still a piece of content you can put on short form or whatever you want to do but it's not just getting on in front of your phone and putting the lyrics on the screen and saying whatever you know what i mean yeah like there's there's there's there's ways that you can play both sides that i think is really important as an artist um yeah no it's it's very interesting like artists have this very like antagonistic relationship with the promoting their music yeah and i think like a very harsh reality is like your song doesn't matter if no one knows your song yeah your story like if you want to tell a good story you have to tell the story to people yeah like you can't just have it one or the other and um you know it's interesting that this idea of like you know the mysterious artists quote quote yeah i am like very interested to see like is that even a successful thing in five or ten years you know what i mean yeah like like the ethel kane types where i mean it's really worked for her and i'm obsessed with her but like like like to build a career where your entire thing is like to not be online is like very interesting and only works if you're Justin Bieber, apparently. And like already are like one of the biggest pop stars of all time. Yeah. But something I'd love, like final question is you were talking a lot about like, you know, an artist like having a why and like what they want to accomplish and achieve and stand for. Yeah. What is your why? Oh, that's so great. I think it's changed a lot. I think your why can change a lot over time. Um, my why I'm trying to put this into words. Um, my why is to give the same feeling that I had when I felt misunderstood to any listener who feels misunderstood or in a place of whatever, when they listen to it, if that makes sense, like standing. I remember the first time I stood in the crowd of a concert and I was, I was, I felt lost. I was, you know, I was, I was like 14 years old. I felt like I didn't have anybody. And I remember standing in the, in the crowd with this band that I loved. And I was sitting there watching. And for an hour I felt connected. It goes, all goes back to connection. I felt connected to a group of people. And I felt like I had this really strong relationship with somebody who, who spoke words that I felt like I understood, which is just, it was so powerful. So if I can do that on any scale, to any listener, that's probably my, my, my greatest why. That's beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And it's like the beautiful power of music, you know, like this collective joy. Um, and it's magic, like going to a concert. It's magic. It's, it literally is. Yeah. And, and just to know that there's other people like love that same thing or feel that same way or miss or felt misunderstood in that way. Um, it's, yeah, it's, it's the magic of music. It's beautiful. Yeah. And I think it doesn't have to be, I think at a concert, like, I think that's one of the reasons why we take so much time with videos and stuff. And, you know, we put a lot of intention behind it. Cause it could be like, you could be sitting at home, but you look, you see, you see the video on your phone. You're like, Oh, like for 30 seconds, I was like out of my brain. Yeah. And I was, I was in this world, you know? And I think that's really powerful. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Aiden. It was so, I love talking to you. And it's so interesting also to hear about like your perspective of like other artists and like world building and things like that. Yeah. Trying, you know, so actively. Um, yeah, go stream the new album, dude. What, what do you want to say to the people? Stream, shut up and love me. Um, give them three songs. Three. Ooh, ooh, ooh. Okay. Um, I would say when I die, that's my favorite song on the album. Let's go. When I die, it's like, you never done a ballad. No, that's like a real proper ballad. Incredible. Do more, please. I know. I love a good ballad. Yeah. Um, yeah. When I die, I would say weekend, um, and then I'm trying to think of ones that aren't out as single. I was reading into it. Okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Well, thank you all so much and we'll see you next week. Bye. Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays. Here's a tip. The Apple sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download, the Apple sports for free on the app store or find it on your new iPhone. Coca-Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall peacemakers risk takers for the optimist pessimists for long distance love for introverts and extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca-Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.