The transcript explores the cultural dominance of lemon through a satirical narrative involving the fictional "Lemonati" organization, contrasting it with 7Up’s new lime-lemon soda as a symbolic shift in consumer culture. It then transitions into a detailed analysis of pop star evolution, proposing a seven-tier model to evaluate artistic legacy. The model emphasizes not just musical success but longevity, cultural influence, and cross-industry ventures. Artists like Billie Eilish and Tyler, The Creator are highlighted as early cultural catalysts with significant impact despite not yet reaching icon status. The "superstar" tier includes artists with massive success and industry influence but focused on music alone, while the "icon" tier—represented by Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, and Bruce Springsteen—shows enduring cultural dominance through business ventures, media presence, and deep fan engagement. The analysis underscores that true legacy extends beyond music, involving lasting cultural, economic, and social impacts. The framework also acknowledges that artists evolve over time, moving through levels dynamically, rejecting static categorizations. Ultimately, the discussion frames artistic greatness as a multifaceted, evolving journey shaped by creativity, resilience, and cultural relevance across generations.
For decades, a shadowy organization called the Lemonati has kept lemon on top and lime in the shadows.
Look around, lemon forward sodas, even lemon forward songs.
We ran the tracks, slowed them down, reversed them, and squeezed out the truth.
That's lemon propaganda right there.
But now, 7up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda.
Join the 7 uprising. Flip the sip.
Fall never arrives all at once.
First the air, then the light, and slowly the things you love begin to find each other.
A jacket meets a dress, a hoodie slips beneath a blazer, an old cap finds a new scarf.
Because you don't simply step into the season, you create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall.
Find fall your way at Ross.
Why do some artists feel iconic when others have been trapped at the same level for years?
Why do some go 10 years releasing music before they finally have that massive breakthrough moment?
And what makes somebody truly a legend?
To build a legacy that lasts beyond just the music they create but impacts culture, maybe introduces film, maybe they start brands or businesses?
Well, I have a theory that there are a lot.
I have a theory that there are seven levels of pop star.
I have been absolutely loving this sort of seven levels of format recently.
I've been seeing a few of them pop up on my YouTube and then I saw this pathologist do one about like the seven levels of pop girl.
And I absolutely loved that format.
I thought it was so interesting.
It was one of those things that really made me think about how would I classify this?
How would I do this?
And I think it's interesting because I think the way I've thought about it is a bit differently.
You know, when I was really trying to think of criteria
for breaking things down into these seven levels.
Definitely a big emphasis is, you know, obviously commercial success and the scale of what they have done.
But two, something that I really thought and weigh pretty heavily into this is longevity.
How long they have been doing it.
And also by default, I think a lot of newer artists lower on this list for me.
Just because I think it's not just about are you capable of having big moments?
Are you capable of having big moments over time?
that sort of like upper echelon of being one of the biggest artists. Also, Sabrina is like just
starting a fragrance line. And you know what I mean? They are just kind of setting into their
pop stardom. Number five is what I call this sort of cultural catalyst. These are artists who are
still earlier in their career, but are like the size of festival headliners, confidently will go
down as a music goat and a music legend. However, are a little too earlier in their career to be
labeled that, but also are deeper in it to where you don't feel like they're a new artist. Like
they have cemented, they are here to stay. The two people that immediately popped to mind were like
Billie Eilish and Tyler, the creator, right? Billie Eilish, only three albums, but even her
first EP is one that had Ocean Eyes on it and Hostage. The song that she did with Khalid has
like overthrown.
Three billion streams. She has had two Oscar winning songs. She was in a TV show. She has a
successful fragrance line and even has a concert documentary coming out directed by James Cameron,
right? She has been an absolutely insane commercial for it since the beginning. All of her albums have
been insanely successful. Her most recent being her most successful, which is insane. But to call
Billie a music all time great feels too early still, right? Again, it's like we know she's going
to get there.
But I'm not sure or not, not that I'm not sure that it's just not yet. Like she needs two more
albums, whatever of, of this level to where I think that will have set in. Another great example to me
was someone like a Tyler, the creator, right? Where he has built such a world beyond just his
music. He has a golf weighing clothing. He has golf, the floor fragrances. He just did his first
movie role in Marty Supreme. And also he owns an orchestrated camp flog, not, which is one of the
most successful artists led for a long time. And I think that's a great example of someone who's
been in the music world for so long. of all time, right? He is somebody who has really gone out of their way to build what is this
cinematic universe of Tyler, the creator outside of that. And he also has a lot more albums. So I
feel like he's proved his consistency and longevity in that sort of way. And I think he's doing so
many things in rap that not many other people could do, honestly. And I think that that is what
is so, you know, he can really move culture in that way with these sorts of things and has proven
that, right? Has orchestrated entire festivals, has dropped clothing lines. Like he's proven his
ability to move culture. And also with this tier list, a big caveat I've heard say in the beginning
is that I think people move around a lot. People can also rapidly jump. You know what I mean? Like
I think Charli XCX is like a great example to me of like someone who is now just like doing,
right? Like the year that she had from like Brat into doing all these movie soundtracks now,
into acting and releasing her own doc, you know, mockumentary
style film. Like they are in the process always of moving through the tiers. Like I don't want it
to sound like it's this eternally rigid thing. Like you're a tier four pop star and that's all
you'll ever be. I hate that. I don't think that at all. This is kind of just how I like thought
about these categories in my mind, I guess, so to speak. Like, um, you know, really what is this
sort of ladder to a true icon status? You know, um, when you get to the level of like what you
do and your work will be referenced for decades to come. Um, and because I think a lot of those
factors tend to not just be the music itself. It tends to be, um, creating this lasting legacy
that expands beyond that, which is why it was fascinating me to try and like come up with these
lists. Number six is what I call the superstar. This is an absolute icon of music. Think Adele,
Kendrick Lamar, Bruno Mars, Harry Styles. They will go down as some of the greatest artists
of our generation. Many of them have built out some sort of like ownership,
stake with their music. Um, whether that is founding their own label that they signed
themselves to so that they have better ownership rights or maybe a publishing company or something
like that. Sometimes it's a small imprint label within the label they're already signed to. Like
they are artists that have also gotten to such a massive, massive success that they have leveraged
to do those things now. And that has made it so that they have more sort of influence in say in
the music industry and with their music. Um, and I think that's, I think that's, I think that's
their own work, right? Um, a lot of artists have done this throughout time. You know, you can think
of some artists do like a full label route, which is like something that Jay-Z did. However, what I
think separates people in this tier from the like top tier seven icon legend status is that they
don't really care as much about doing anything outside of their creative medium. Like they are
here to be an artist and that's really it. And that is their driving force. And it doesn't need
to be anything beyond that. You know, someone like Bruno Mars,
like he has a rum brand that I had never known about before filming this video or like Harry
Styles has pleasing. But when you think about this sort of people in this category, also like
they have taken years long hiatuses from music and not really cared. Um, you know what I mean?
Like when you think of like a tier seven, like an Ariana Grande, like the, her taking a break
from music is like doing wicked, right? We're just like an astronomically huge thing. And she's
like, you know what I mean? So like Bruno Mars went 10 years without making a solo album. Um,
you know, Harry Styles is not afraid to completely disappear for two years when he's making an album.
Adele wanted to raise a child and was like, I'm going to peace out for a while. Like they're, they're not as obsessed with like growing the thing constantly all the time.
They want to make music when they feel driven to make music, but it's not ever going to be anything
more than that. And I think that they could get to that status at top tier status, but they choose
not to. They
choose to have more privacy. They choose to have more comfort and just pursue other things with
life, you know? Um, then they have been with going up that way. Then we get to the tier seven. This
is like what I call the icon. Like you will be studied and referenced for over a decade. Your
work has evolved with time to the point where you have maintained cultural dominance throughout
multiple eras of music. You have proven that you're not alone. You're not alone. You're not
that your influence and impact does not just span on music alone, but it is your ability. You have
such a deep fandom and connection with the people who love you that they want to be a part of you
and be a part of anything that you create in any way, right? This is the Ariana Grande's of the
world, right? She can do a billion dollar fragrance line, but she can also be in a movie like Wicked
and could do Broadway, could be in a bunch of other movies, was an actress before, right? Like
she's proven throughout beyond just music. She's proven throughout beyond just music. She's proven
throughout beyond just music and what she is that like her legacy will be something that people hold
on to for years. Similarly with Beyonce. Beyonce also, again, has a bunch of director consumer
businesses like Sacred and her whiskey brand, but she also started her own label, which is another
fascinating thing and not just the label for managing her own music, but label for signing
other artists. Taylor Swift is in this category because of she has really proven her ability to
move culture with things like the NFL viewership. She's proven her ability to move culture with
things like the NFL viewership. And just the talking about how her tours has impacted GDPs of
countries, right? Like we know that she can move people in a way that very few, maybe no one else
on earth is capable of doing. She hasn't done that in the sort of traditional business route that a
lot of other people on this list have. However, she has proven that. And her commercial success
is just so dominant that you can't ignore it. Another example to me is Lady Gaga. She has house
just broke the record for the largest show from a female artist like this year, right? She has been
a dominant force of music for like two decades now. She's proven she's done movies like A Star
is Born, right? Like there's just this longevity to her and this ability to do so many different
things. I think very, very few artists could ever replicate. Another fascinating example to me was
Bruce Springsteen. Fun fact, he was the first artist to ever become a billionaire.
Through music. And he did it in a very interesting way because he doesn't really own businesses in
the sort of like REM beauty type way, right? He actually has, I think on record, the largest
catalog sale of all time at $500 million for his catalog of music, which is insane.
And one of the reasons for that is because he maintained a lot of ownership of the music.
So he has songwriting ownership on pretty much like 40 plus years worth of work. So when that
sale happened, he had more of a stake in it. Also throughout that entire 40 years had better royalties
because that was also just an era of music where everything was still like CDs fill and physical
music sales. And also he was just consistently one of the highest grossing performance of all time at
like $200 to $300 million per show. He has also had a documentary come out about him and done things
like that. He's been very outspoken politically, which I very much admire. So he's an example to me
of, again, like he is mainstreamed.
This legend status, no matter what, right? Like your parents probably showed you a song of his at
some point in your life, uh, in the way that I will show kids Beyonce and Ariana Grande at some
point in 20 years from now or whatever. Right. Um, that is what it meant means to have true icon
legend status, right? There were people that I wanted to include on this list, but I just didn't
really know how to do so. Um, a great example to me is like a Britney Spears, right? Like she does
meet this criteria to me of like insane commercial success. And like,
you still being referenced to this day, but also like so much happened with her and her mental and
was clearly
manipulated and abused in a lot of ways that it's like, I don't want to try and compare her sales
to something. Like, I just, I just felt like it's better not to talk about it
at all. Another great example, again, is someone like Jay-Z who built his own label, has built
businesses, has, you know what I mean? Like he also, I think when it's sort of that almost Rihanna
type route where after a while he didn't stop releasing altogether, but made it clear that like
music was no longer his primary focus. But I do think again, in this being referenced, having a
legacy, having shifted the landscape of music in a way that will be talked about for generations,
you can't deny Jay-Z has to be up there as well. So let me know, who did I forget on this list?
Is there anyone you would have added? Was there any criterias or things I should have thought
about? I'm really interested, especially in these sort of tiers of like cultural catalysts where I
had like Billie and then this sort of like the gatekeepers.
The gatekeeper tier, you know, like where, what artists do you think are there that have been,
gotten to such a great level and you love their music, but for some reason have not had this sort
of like Sabrina Carpenter type blow up? And why don't you think they've had that blow up? I'm very,
very curious, but I love y'all. I hope you enjoyed this fun little video and doing this trend. I want
to do stuff like this more often and I'll see y'all next week. Bye.
Peacemakers. Risk takers. For the optimists. Pessimists. For long distance love. For introverts
and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone.
Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.
Burst the air.
Then the light. And slowly the things you love begin to find each other.
A jacket meets a dress. A hoodie slips beneath a blazer. An old cap finds a new scarf. Because
you don't simply step into the season. You create it layer by layer until it finally feels like fall.
Find fall your way at Ross.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
The Lemonati organization is revealed as a shadowy force promoting lemon-centric culture through propaganda, including music and soda, while 7Up challenges this with a new lime-lemon soda.
Seasonal transition is described as a layered, intentional process—where personal items and aesthetics gradually align, mirroring how culture and identity evolve over time.
The speaker proposes a seven-level framework for assessing pop star legacy, emphasizing longevity, cultural impact, and influence beyond music.
Artists like Billie Eilish and Tyler, The Creator are positioned as cultural catalysts due to their early influence, cross-medium projects, and long-term cultural contributions.
The "superstar" tier (e.g., Adele, Bruno Mars) features artists with massive commercial success and industry influence, but who maintain artistic focus and prioritize creative integrity over business expansion.
The "icon" tier (e.g., Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, Bruce Springsteen) includes artists whose work transcends music, shaping culture, business, and public consciousness for decades.
True legacy is not just about commercial success but about enduring cultural relevance, deep fan connection, and multifaceted contributions across media and society.
The framework acknowledges fluidity—artists move through levels over time, and status is dynamic, not rigid, reflecting evolving cultural landscapes.
Summary:
The transcript explores the cultural dominance of lemon through a satirical narrative involving the fictional "Lemonati" organization, contrasting it with 7Up’s new lime-lemon soda as a symbolic shift in consumer culture. It then transitions into a detailed analysis of pop star evolution, proposing a seven-tier model to evaluate artistic legacy. The model emphasizes not just musical success but longevity, cultural influence, and cross-industry ventures.
Artists like Billie Eilish and Tyler, The Creator are highlighted as early cultural catalysts with significant impact despite not yet reaching icon status. The "superstar" tier includes artists with massive success and industry influence but focused on music alone, while the "icon" tier—represented by Beyoncé, Taylor Swift, Lady Gaga, and Bruce Springsteen—shows enduring cultural dominance through business ventures, media presence, and deep fan engagement. The analysis underscores that true legacy extends beyond music, involving lasting cultural, economic, and social impacts.
The framework also acknowledges that artists evolve over time, moving through levels dynamically, rejecting static categorizations. Ultimately, the discussion frames artistic greatness as a multifaceted, evolving journey shaped by creativity, resilience, and cultural relevance across generations.
FAQs
The Lemonati is a shadowy organization symbolizing the dominance of lemon in popular culture, with references to lemon-forward sodas and music, suggesting a form of cultural propaganda.
7Up is launching a lime-lemon soda as a strategic move to challenge the 'lemon dominance' in pop culture and to flip the traditional narrative by promoting balance and variety in flavors.
The seven levels range from emerging artists to cultural icons, with criteria including commercial success, longevity, cultural impact, and expansion into businesses or film, with the highest level being a true cultural legend.
Billie Eilish is seen as a future legend due to her massive commercial success, cultural influence, diverse ventures (like a fragrance line and concert documentary), and consistent output, though her legacy is still developing.
An icon is someone whose work is referenced across decades, who has deep cultural dominance, and who has expanded into film, fashion, or business, creating a lasting legacy beyond music alone.
The 'layered fall' metaphor represents how seasons and personal experiences evolve gradually—like fashion choices or relationships—where small changes build up to a full transformation over time.
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