The $3M/Month Marketing Machine: Salim Elhila’s Unfiltered Playbook

To make a good product, first you should consider it as a funnel. You should sell people constantly into the next step. You need to treat your fulfillment team as a sales team. So they need to be incentivized with customers reaching certain steps. That way it's like a massive win-win. The most important element when it comes to performance for a new hire. It's like speed off on boarding and a quality of on boarding. If you hire the right person, they will manage themselves. No, that's a myth that I had to get rid of. Everybody needs a coach. You will always need to onboard people properly. As human beings, we're biased to believe that effort is correlated with the results. In my experience of life, couldn't be further from the truth. Some people just truck things without much effort. Welcome to another podcast episode with Salim, the master of decentralized masters. Like one of the most impressive funnel architects I have seen in a while. Today we're going to talk about how he got up to 3 million a month and how he did that whole thing. So let's take a step back first. Thanks for being here. Thank you, my friend. Have it to have you here and ready to pick your brain. So I remember that you started even doing the sales culture yourself. I think you already saw somebody who dust off himself and then starts building out the teams around it. Can you share a little bit about your philosophy before we get into the whole technical part about your business? How do you approach. You have done a lot of projects, e-commerce, all these other things. How do you approach a new project in terms of mindset and your whole approach? It's a very good question because I believe people go too quickly into the needy-gritty and the details of business and they don't take a step back. So my mindset and my philosophy is what's the most important element is the vehicle. And it stems from the fact that Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett when they invest in a business, they care about the team behind it. And everybody says this, investors, the investors in the team, rather than investing in a business, which is true, but the vehicle that this team is like driving is actually more important. And by vehicle, what I mean is, yes, the business model, but moreover, the industry. You can be the best entrepreneur in the world, but if you're launching a newspaper business in today's world, you're doomed, right? You're going to basically swim against current. So, it must like you're going to fail because your industry is shrinking instead of growing. So, why decentralized masters and what philosophy got me and my co-founder-tan to co-found it is very simple. The crypto industry is growing and extremely, at an extremely rapid pace. And the education industry is also growing. I believe it's projected to hit like 340, honestly, I don't know. Yeah, so I'm like 350 billion by 2028, according to Forbes. So, yeah. I was using this number in my reviews VSL because I was selling people how to build on courses and stuff. But yeah, long story short, the intersection of two massive industries are growing at the fastest pace possible. Crypto and education. Got it. And how did you meet each other? You were already friends and then you just started thinking about it for a couple of months or what happened there? Yeah, so basically I had a course teaching people how to build like online businesses but targeting the French market. And I bought my first Bitcoin. I remember when Elon Musk tweeted. And I felt like something was going on, right? Everybody was talking about crypto. It was like the peak, not the peak, but like the bull run in 2021. And I was like, as usual, my mindset is life is like, look, you are nobody. You are not the smartest. But a lot of people have gone through a lot of shit and you can learn from them. So every time I try to learn something new, I try to gather around me the best people in the world at it. So I have a small audience in Instagram. So just posted the story. Hey guys, I'm looking for the crypto expert. And a bunch of people came back to me and one guy told me, hey, I basically know this guy is really good and we live in your building. Got downstairs, we grabbed a coffee and the person was done. I co-founder. And we met like this instant click. And yeah, started from there. The power of Dubai, I guess. Cool. And then you guys decided to go for it at some point. What was the first step that you took? Honestly, first step is like, he, we directly talked about like launching a course, teaching people crypto because we believe like there was a huge gap there. We didn't know really how to approach it though from the beginning. And I had my businesses that were working well. He had his businesses as well. So we did like any young guys did to like bond, meaning we partied together. So Miko knows for example. And yeah, honestly, like we started to be friends beforehand and before we launched businesses. And then it was obvious for us that we needed to learn something. So we were like, okay, we approached it very scientifically. We were like, okay, we want to like build in the crypto world because that's where we want to bring the most amount of value. We know like this is going to change the world. So how to approach it? You have the four C's, right? Like the four ways to create leverage. You have collaboration. You have code, right? Collaboration, meaning like you hire a lot of people. Code, you build a piece of code and it's going to work indefinitely. For you, you have content and you have capital. So first, honestly, we wanted to build a fund, right? Because time has a CFA. So it has a huge experience in terms of like investment and finances. So we wanted to launch a fund in order to leverage capital. But then we were like, maybe it's like not the best first step. And because I had this whole experience in like the education space, we were like, you know what? Let's actually leverage content and collaboration and build a huge platform. So like obviously video training, etc. I will like bring massive amount of value to high caliber people and help them enter that new industry. Why? Because by doing this, we're going to create the perfect ecosystem and the perfect environment to make it in the crypto world. And what you just mentioned, you know, the right audience. Like I think you figured it out like from the get go, right? You see, yeah. You spend life and you started booking crazy amount of calls for a good price. How was the then to start taking sales calls and like closing these people and like working on this new offer? So to be honest, that wasn't new for me. I started taking sales calls probably like four years before that. When I like, my first ever consulting business was like teaching people how to build e-commerce businesses. So I remember being like in my smaller apartment in Paris. In coal. Like a maniac, you know, and I remember like when friend of mine was like staying at mine and I was just like working, working, I was like, well, who are you talking to, you know? And so I got over this like a period where you feel like a little bit like a robot. You feel like like you don't really know if you're what you're doing is right. Like I remember my first ever sales calls. I was feeling like a scammer. Whereas like I was giving tremendous amount of value to people, you know, but I think we call that imposter syndrome. So yeah, honestly like for this business specifically, it wasn't really hard to like take sales calls. I think I believe the first really like limiting beliefs I had were like were two brown guys. We're in Dubai. I have tattoos. And we're speaking to like 50 plus years old Americans. Yeah. Like honestly, if I would be them, I wouldn't even like talk to me, you know, like I would just be like, okay, maybe what he's saying is like logic, but he's a fucking like he has a terry space. Beard, you know, like why would I give my money to him? But honestly like it worked, you know, like I took a few sales calls, tend to way more. I was working night, I was working during the day, you know. Yeah, it was late night call for you guys with the US time. But I took a few and honestly like I was always surprised. Like I was like damn, like this work. Honestly, like people don't care. Maybe it actually helps, you know, because I believe in marketing and like, seduction instead of being polarizing and being a better interrupt helps a lot. Like if you're standing out from the crowd, people will either like you or hate you. Yeah. And in the middle, I believe it doesn't really converge well. Yeah, yeah. And also your ads were pretty amazing. I think that definitely helped. Like, there's like kind of like a documentary, right? Where I was not like this random guy. I mean, you also did that later, but like sitting on, you know, with a camera, full face, like, hey, do you want to tell it or there, right? There's like a whole documentary thing. Like, how did you come up with that? Like, what inspired you to do? And you're still doing that a lot, I think, right? Yeah, look, honestly, I mean, inspiration comes from like watching a bunch of like ads and like, V.S.Ls and like movies and stuff like this. And like, I remember just like being, interviewing a bunch of like video editors. Yeah. And like having them come up with ideas. And a few started to go that route and it sounded right, you know, because crypto and like decentralized finance is something back in the days that was extremely underground. Like, a few people were using it, still very few people use it, but not people are a little bit more aware of it. So going into like the Netflix documentary about something a little bit like borderline under the radar, we believe that's what the audience would be intrigued. And also one thing is you probably read scientific advertising. Yes, so, so, Claude Hopkins, he says, the curiosity is the greatest human incentive. Yeah. I've always like, life has always proved me this. Like, with curiosity, you can make people do shit they wouldn't do just because they want to know. Yeah. So like that branding and these visual effects that we like put into the ads are really there to trigger massive curiosity. Yeah, I feel like as a, I mean, I also count you as a European. You grew up most of your time in France, right? Yeah, in Paris. Paris, I feel like that the branding aspect is not, like Americans don't do it as often. Like if you look at the really big companies, right, masterclass and all these people would like on a smaller scale, like they don't then do that much. And then you went over the top cinematic, like, that's interesting. Honestly, I never witnessed it. I mean, for me, like Apple and stuff, they're, yeah, yeah, I mean, their companies. But yeah, like maybe you write like a, I mean, you started at an Apple level. Like your first ad, I mean, I don't know if you can compare it to Apple, but it was like on sale. So, let's see, shout out to Jagan, bro. Jagan is our first video editor and now he's creative director. Cool. This guy is a genius. Honestly, like he, and I know obviously we have a whole video team with like amazingly talented people. Yeah. It was the first one. And we were calling that verbatim, this is Jagan, in terms of like the visual effects and stuff. Yeah, I mean, that stuff was amazing. He launched your first ads, then also the first challenges. Or else, right? Challenges. Challenges in terms of like add accounts, like kind of stuff. I thought you were talking about the fun old challenges. No, no, no, no, we can talk about it later if you want, but never launch that. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, challenges, man, like crazy. I think in one week, we got our add accounts, band, Facebook YouTube. We got all our customers refunded. Like, oh, I mean, it wasn't a lot at the time, but it was extremely frustrating. It was like probably 20, 25. And we sell them very high tickets, right? Yeah. What happened also? Oh, yeah. Banks accounts. Frozen. How did that happen? I didn't know that. Pioneer, bro. Like, okay. Yeah. And the crazy thing is I had like a very good contact there, you know, back in the come days, you need like solid bank accounts as well to like send to the supplier, receive like huge wires and stuff. And yeah, like I was so surprised. So look, what they say is like, first crypto, I mean, any new concept. It's like, consider it as dangerous. So they write you. Now, first, it's ridiculous. And they laugh at you. Second, it's dangerous. They fight you. And then is the truth and they welcome you. And here, I believe we're like in the moment when they were fighting crypto. They were like, crypto is a scam. Crypto is what scammer is dangerous. So yeah, anything that was related to crypto, they shut you down. Now you got like custom payment gateways or what did you do there? No, we found like partners who realize like we're not doing anything illegal. Yeah. And honestly, like also for any crypto company that like is trying to use add platforms and stuff like this, it's better to like use different wardings. Right. So instead of crypto, you can say, like I remember we use so many different wardings. Like, you know, our first ad, we were like the burgeoning electronic economy, like stuff like this. Yeah. People get it, you know, they understand like what you're talking about. So yeah, it's better maybe to not choose the word crypto. Yeah. And now you're kind of like steady in terms of policy wise. You kind of figured out how to run it. Still tied right? Yeah. Honestly, still running into like troubles sometimes. Yeah. We've got the bank like recently. And it was like the third time probably. Running into problems in terms of like add accounts as well. But we have solid partners who will help us. But yeah, it's getting better. Yeah. That's for sure. Got it. Yeah, I mean, that's and it's always the challenge with crypto. But you are quite creative with that. I think you you are like scripting everything yourself, right? When you were starting out like how did that go? Yeah, yeah. You know, writing the ads, writing everything. When did you start like hiring script writers from what point? Which revenue level, slash ads, band level? I think we were around like 400k, 500k per month. Yeah. We hired someone from nothing held back actually. Jamie. Good guy. I think you could guy. He wrote it. It was really good at understanding all these like financial publishing space. And yeah, we started from there. And he got it immediately. That's what I wanted to ask you like how did you find the right copyrights? Because you have quite a few. No, so yeah, like I mean obviously we have a specific voice. Exactly. A specific way of doing things. With any copyrighter we hired always had like had to really make them understand like what's the playbook to either text for us. And obviously like that's a myth that I had to get rid of which is if you hire the right person they will manage themselves. No, like everybody needs a coach. You have like even the greatest athletes of all time they had a coach. Yeah. And they still had a coach at their top. So everybody needs a coach and you will always need to unbore people properly in your company. It's like the most important element when it comes to performance for a new hire. It's like speed off unbording and a quality of unbording. And so now you have kind of like a whole onboarding process for copyrighters. Yeah, it's like where they get a bunch of videos. I mean for copyrighters specifically, yeah, it's more like department wise and then you like adopted to like specific positions. Yeah, honestly, we don't need more copyrighters now like we have two like two people in our marketing team that are like extremely competent to writing ads. Yeah, they can produce like massive amounts. Yeah, what are we talking about? That was my full-alcohol question. Like how many scripts are you pumping out nowadays per week or per month? Scripts and variations, I guess because you always do scripts and variations. Honestly, scripts, it depends what you call scripts because we are writing ads, right? And for each ad, the most important element is the hook. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we are writing let's say three to five hooks per ad. Yeah, shame me. And honestly, at this time, we're trying to launch at least five batches of ads per week. Yeah, so like five batches, but five batches means there's multiple scripts, multiple hooks in it. Yeah. So you're probably launching it. So one batch is like one or two bodies. Yeah. And multiple hooks. Yeah. But usually in an angle that's like similar. Yeah. So yeah, that's the speed at which we're testing now because we realize like speed of testing is the name of the game. Yeah. And then these are written scripts that you test first or immediately record them and then you also test the videos or what's the workflow there? So our process has always been to test with AI first. So any, like an MVP, right? You're going to launch a product. If you launch a product that's like finished, you're going to lose so much time into testing and iterating. Same for ads. Like we test first with the minimal amount of production. And then if it works, we send to production. But obviously, that's in theory what we want to do. The reality is more complex because right now, Tan and I were like 100% focused on marketing. And I am 100% exaggeration, but let's say 70-80% of our time is on marketing. He's more into the day-to-day operation, like making sure everybody is producing at full speed. He's a really, really good project manager and really, really good at making sure deadlines are met. I'm more like the creative, writing the VSL, writing the big pieces, reviewing the content, reviewing everything. And yeah, so in reality, it's more like because we're present in the day-to-day. Sometimes we believe so much in an idea. We're going to like every send they usually put cast session. We get to record this and usually it works. Honestly. Yeah. I mean, also like if you have the time, right then. And you just record it and you edit it. That might still be out of the A.I. Like with A.I. you're like doing A.I. voiceover and then you just put like bureau over it. Or like using A.I. Evertars or like you're doing pretty much everything at this point. Yeah. Like honestly, that's the crazy thing is I think as human beings we're biased to believe that effort is correlated with the results. Which in my experience of life, couldn't be further from the truth. Like I've met people who like struggle so much in their lives and they're giving their best. And nothing is happening. I think it's happening to them. Some people just attract things without much effort. And the same is true with like ads and marketing. Like it's not because you've put so much effort and energy and emotion into producing a piece of content that is going to work. So sometimes even like simple text on the screen outperforms the most beautifully produced ads. So it's very intriguing. Yeah, it's crazy. It's weird. But you know like sometimes even like notes like this outperform the best like the most beautifully produced ads. Like crazy. Yeah, I mean, but if you're doing all that stuff right, you have a script and you do notes, you do text on screen, you do you know, be rolling screen. Then you're producing like 100 content pieces plus per week, right? Probably, probably. If you count like even an image is 100. Yeah, 100 is probably like a little stretched, but yeah, like in terms of like if you count all the pieces of content for the whole business, organic platform, it's stuff, it's probably more for ads. I would say 50 to 100. Gotcha. Now you mentioned organic. You start with ads only pretty much like almost nothing. Now you guys got a bunch of publications and also start doing organic content that you feel different when you started like getting those publications in and organic content. So right now the organic side of things is mainly to show people like our customers that we are real. That we are human beings that we have so you know that scammers. So it helps a lot with conversion like our membership directors, people who basically interview customers and make sure they're like good people to enroll. Yeah. They it's very useful to them because when a new piece of content is produced they can send it you know give value very easily and I create stress and creates a like this atmosphere which is helping people and role. So yes, we've seen a difference but mainly in that regard in terms of reach right now. Honestly, we've not yet cracked the code because we don't believe it's like the most important element. We're honestly like so good at using paid ads that it was entirely the priority, but now we're confident we're going to smash it this year. Gotcha. Gotcha. I mean, yeah, it's just what you said like if it's already good enough to nurture them and at least something happens there. Are you guys considering like opening an office in the US or anything or like expanding in terms of that, but if the sales process is not an issue you don't really have to look honestly like I don't see the point. So for now we like we really cracked the code in terms of like creating a good culture for remote company and the answer without hopstep. They what without the screen trekking and hopstep. Yeah, and like what is interesting is that people believe you need an office to create a culture but not really because at the end of the day now everything is happening online. You just need obviously to understand like the game like remote company is how it works and you can create a massive culture like. Honestly, everybody who worked in our company. I'm pretty sure they will be able to tell that it's not one of the best if not the best company they've worked for. Yeah, I mean everything looks pretty professional if you look at it and also I was checking it before this podcast you guys have I mean I would say flawless trust pilot. Thank you. Trust pilot in few. So you guys must be doing something well. So that's also the next step like a lot of people like you're really good at marketing right now how did you use that creativity and art also in delivering a great product. Yeah, so look the fulfillment side of things obviously the video production is like subpar. How would you say in English like anyway like I know, you know, I think subpar is like it's worth it. Yeah, yeah, like it's extremely good like people when they enroll they watch the videos and they're like wow this is like actually amazing like they're not joking. Now I think the main mindset element to really achieve an amazing product is really like okay I'm gonna give you the analogy. I assume you probably have a lot of like marriages that like go south and don't end well because the couple was like perfect for the whole addiction process and then when they get married the guy becomes fat the girl as well stops like wearing makeup stop getting pretty blah blah blah whatever they go south. Yeah, I believe is the same for many businesses like they put so much fucking effort in like building the best funnel by having everything like perfect clean. And when people enroll like they give them money then like they don't care anymore. Yeah, and I believe your product should have as much marketing psychology than your funnel because your product is a funnel. When you think about it you really have to make sure as many customers go through your product from beginning to the end successfully. Yeah, why? Because first of all you want all that customer satisfaction to sleep well at night but also because nothing is easier than selling again to a customer who is happy about your product. And as I mean probably many marketers were watching this podcast and you know the game is about the person who is able to spend the most amount of money on the front end like that person will win how to spend the most amount of money on the front end. It's by selling the most expensive product on the front end but also reselling to these same people. Yeah, so to make a good product first you should consider it as a funnel. What they are going to learn, what are they going to get by doing this. They need to be willing to use your product and that uses the exact same principles as your photo, curiosity, scarcity, urgency, etc. So that's the first step. Second step and I'll see this is thanks to the genius of my co-founder. What I mean by that they need to be structured as a performance team. The performance of your customers is the performance of your fulfillment team. So they need to be incentivized with customers reaching certain steps in your customer journey. So they need to be like for example we have five steps in our product and then usually they get to renew or not or they get to upsell. Well they are incentivizing to having them move through step three then step five. And they get also incentivized if someone is like so happy is renewing or upselling. That way it's like a massive win-win right because basically your fulfillment team is literally incentivizing with the success of the customers. It's like a massive support spiral. Yeah, it's funny it's always like if your YouTube videos look better than your course, it's probably an issue. Yeah, I'm excited and put in the effort. But I mean you have always been really high production with everything so I assume that was not a problem. Did you guys also like kind of play around that test with that where like where you are like oh first we teach them this and then we teach them the second step or was that something that kind of came naturally. In terms of like making them let's say finish the whole education. Was there anything that you guys did that was like that changed the game or was it just like little things. I'm not sure I understood. So to do make sure that the completion rate is as high as possible. Yeah. It was there anything big that you guys found that was like that you changed that really like made the completion rate a lot higher. Was just really tweaking a lot of little things and like making sure that the. So honestly the thing is like one element is like crucial is having them have like get the first win very quickly. Because human beings are conditioned to like seek dopamine right. So if they get that dopamine shot very early in the journey they will assume it will just grow bigger and bigger. So having them succeed very quickly at like something small but that really create satisfaction is massive for them because first impressions are your last impression in anything. So by getting this first win boom they're like hooked they want more. So that was a very good element and also you need to have like a very logic customer experience like they really need when they enter your product to understand. What is going to happen was the journey ahead. Yeah. Why they're like fulfilling each step and the concrete benefits they will get. As long as they're like they're convinced of this everything will be alright. Gotcha. And you guys also helped them later on like implementing it on platforms and all that kind of stuff for you guys really teach like the. The fundamentals like how does that look like so obviously like you can understand where your customer is yeah our customers are like beginners they really understand the thing about they have heard about crypto but they don't know much. Honestly we also get a lot of experts because our advanced content is like yeah quite advanced and we have a huge like analyst team and stuff so even like experts now they start to reach out to us and they want to enroll. But the bulk of our members. They are like very new. So you have to take that into account and because of this obviously we have to start with like fundamentals. Cool thing is in life you the fundamentals are like what what's most important like if any businessman mastered the fundamentals of business he will be one of the greatest businessmen of all time. And like I don't know who said this maybe Bruce Lee like I fear the guy who master the one punch a thousand times rather than the guy who master thousand punch once. Yeah so fundamentals obviously but then gets more and more advanced. Yeah until they have the 80 20 that allows them to create wealth. Got it and then you also have an upsell is that I'm like a more one wanting or like more reports more in depth training what's the upsell. They can upsell and they can get like a higher level of access to the team to us, Tana and I and yeah basically it's the more the higher cheer they get the more white glove service they will have. Gotcha and you just mentioned that you have like a whole team like doing. Analyzing data or what are we talking about what's the so back and there yeah we have a I think we're like 80 plus in the company right now we have a huge team of like analysts which is one of the main value component of our product because they're constantly. Looking at the market looking what's happening and it's such a wide industry and so new that there is no like there is nobody that can claim that he's an expert at everything concerning crypto like I wouldn't believe him. So by having experts at like all different narratives we call them all different like sub pockets of the industry. That allows us to have like a 360 degrees view on like what's happening and that also allows like basically they're crawling through the mud for our members to give them the right data the right information. Yeah is that something that you guys still want to turn into a fun one day or yeah definitely you guys are working on it already or what's the yeah so obviously at some point like our members started to be like look this is amazing. I'm making a good amount of money. How can I give you my money so you can manage it you know we're not in like we're in a position to do that right now but it's going to happen in the future for sure you guys are working on it or what what do you mean with that yeah it's a pain in the set up right. We're not at this stage yet right we're building a software first yeah okay the next step is the fun I mean I guess that's the next question and what's up what are you building right now so yeah so look the cool thing is by building an education business you create massive reciprocity because all these people that we helped they're so grateful because teaching a man how to use crypto decentralized finance today and maybe I'm biased because I'm in this industry but I deeply believe that it's teaching a man how to fish yeah so when you teach a man how to fish his whole life when you will be fishing to feed his family you will think about you and we'll fill a grateful about you and that's exactly that so we teach all these people like how to really leverage that new industry and they're super grateful that gratefulness creates massive reciprocity like they they all love us they all want to help us all the time and we're in a great position right now because we have an amazing relationship with all of them I believe 3500 right now and they're a very high quality audience like they all are successful they have a substantial network most of them like they basically they all need to have at least $100 between vests just one of the prerequisite to enter the community so because of that like they they are like great they are sophisticated members right they have an indicated opinion on anything so we talk regularly to them like hey what do you need what do you think is like a great thing that people in the community have because we're here to help you guys so one of the great problems that they talked about was that hey now I have all this crypto have all this like these digital assets at my disposal so do I like if something happens to me who gets it and you know like I heard that and I was like this is actually true even for me like if something happens to me I want my parents to have access to my crypto but they don't know how to use crypto and they don't know how to get my crypto so we built a solution for this it's a software right now it's only open to members of our community actually the highest tier members of our community and slowly we'll probably either going to roll out this to like the whole public or we'll just keep it within decentralized masters but yeah so first step was this and the beautiful thing again is like because we have this relationship with our customers we have a bunch of ideas on like what they need and we'll just build God and so this software will help you let's say if you pass away helps your family to still access your crypto yeah so basically you set up beneficiaries right yeah so wallets of people you want to fund if something happens to you yeah and yeah if you like die For example, boom. Got it. Then you need to upload the certificate. And then the family can also get a paid out and like normal currency for it. You have different mechanisms to do it. I'm going to say too much obviously. But yeah, you have different mechanisms and depending on what you want, you have many ways to like send money to your beneficiaries. Got it. Yeah, I mean, that also has a bunch of tax implications. At some point that you might have to help them with. So it gets quite complicated. Yeah. Yeah. Is that something you see a lot in your community that people are like, you know, not sure about their taxes and just worried about like-- Definitely. --the different country. --complicated topic when it comes to crypto. We teach that. We've mastered it. One of the main principles is to avoid as many tax evidences you can. And you have a bunch of strategies to do this. Yeah. You mean avoid tax evidences? Taxation evidences. I think. Basically, when you, for example, trade crypto and you sell it, it's a taxation event. I'm not an expert right now. I mean, Dubai, fortunately. No taxes. But yeah, like a bunch of strategies to solve this. Nice. Sounds good. And what's next? After the software, then you have the fund. There's anything else. Do you have-- I guess a bunch of other software's or components you want to build out? What does it want to do in an upcoming five years? So it's funny because when you're an entrepreneur, like you want-- I mean, I'm like this. I'm huge at HD, naturally. Have this in the control a little bit, you know? But I always want to learn so many things. I always want to do so many-- put in place so many ideas and stuff. But the thing is-- I'm the choice, the path to success, to launch as many things as you can. Now we have this amazing funnel with decentralized masters that allow us to acquire people and members extremely profitably and give them tremendous amount of value. We funneled that to the software. And honestly, we'll see. Like, probably by focusing on the software, because there is so many things to implement. It can go really, really far. Ease our attention worth being diverted into other directions. A fund, maybe, because at the end of the day, I believe very easily we can give massive amount of value of people to people in that regard. More things might be a lot of elements in our play. Like, yes, Elon Musk has like, I don't know, four or five very big companies. Are we Elon Musk? I don't know. He won't go to me. Maybe we'll see. Gotcha. All right, that makes sense. So for you, it's kind of like just focus on what you're doing the software and the marketing then. Like, how far do you think you can push the marketing, right? Because there have been people in the industry selling to an audience that wants to invest, hitting four or five million a month. I'm pretty sure that you guys will also be able to hit that. At some point, if the market is right and everything is down in, but what do you think in your estimate, which I've seen now is the cap for you guys? So look, the might sound pretentious and arrogant and then people might think I'm a prick after dropping that sentence, but I believe we can reach 10 million a month. I mean, I don't think that's crazy. I deeply believe it. And why is because we've been a one trick pony for like three years now. Like we've only been doing ads, BSL, Bucacole, that's it. And we've overlooked so many components of the funnel. Like we've basically sold to 95% of the people, even less, 97%. Sorry, we've sold to 3% of the people we're attracting. 97% of the people we're attracting, we were just throwing away. And all these people, we can give them massive amount of values as well with like lower cheer products, low ticket. And we have so many ways to like give value to people, which we weren't really leveraging. Just organic, for example. Honestly, we're like not as good as I believe we can be. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure I don't think that sounds pretentious. I'm pretty sure that 10 million is possible for you guys. Like just the question is when, right? Yeah, and you know, like, honestly, it's the four-minute miles, like when people realize like when the first person reached one mile in four minutes, everybody started to like do it. And we know actors in the industry who are like doing more than 10 million months. So we're like, why not us? As educators? Is that all or not? Yeah, that's interesting. Oh, I ask you off camera who those guys are. Because you probably don't want to share it. That's how you're everything. Yeah, I mean, I mean, 10 million is-- I mean, our goal is also doing much more than our business. Yeah, but they're doing it with like multiple-- Different low-ticket. Yeah, multiple offers, low-ticket, mid-ticket. It's a different model. I'm just saying the money is in the market. Yeah. It's just where you can collect it or not. Yeah, that's cool. I will see. Hopefully in two, three years, you know, it will be the 10 million a month podcast. That will be cool. So we talked a little bit about where you want to go. But let's also take a little step back. Because you grew up in Paris. Let's start with your origin story a little bit. Like how did you get into the whole online marketing stuff? Oh, man. I remember something of what is a Jurassic Park egg? Do you know what? Did you sold some e-commerce stuff? I was like, a Jurassic Park egg? No, it was a commerce. When I sold some-- So basically, I was an engineer, right? I was supposed to do my career in artificial intelligence engineering. That's useful now, by the way, that you know that. It is. It is. To understand the ins and outs. Very useful. But yeah, I just realized very quickly that corporate world wasn't for me. So I quit everything. Like my parent thought I was crazy. But I read to the van and started to travel around Australia, you know? And I realized what was real free. You didn't? Just basically, I mean, yes, you have to find showers and campings and stuff like this or like restaurants. I cannot imagine you camping, for the honest. Bro, honestly, that was a very interesting experience. And you don't smell good, but it's interesting. And then you go to-- I went to Bali at some point and there's been Bali. And I met this guy, Tim Caloel, who held his little e-commerce business and his computer. And from the beach, he was making like $1,500, Australian dollar per month. And basically, it's like $1,000. And back in the days, with that, you can live anywhere in Southeast Asia. I used to live there with like 500 euros. And I was like, this sounds amazing, you know? Like a writer, be paid $1,000 US dollar and being free, like being my own boss and being able to work from anywhere in the world, rather than what I was making when I was an engineer. I was making like $3,000 per month. It was like my first job. I did it for six months. So yeah, I came back home in Casablanca, my small apartment, you know? And I asked my parents. I remember I did like a PowerPoint presentation. Hey guys, so this is e-commerce, blah, blah, blah. I need $2,000 to start, you know? And honestly, I think they believe that would fail, but I will learn. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to repay you. I found that job in Canada, blah, blah, so I will pay you every month. You're like, OK, you know what? Let's go. Honestly, I'm so grateful for my parents. When they always supported me the best they called, even though they weren't rich. And do it like for two months. I went into my room. And I read and learned everything I called about e-commerce and marketing, like a maniac. And I launched like 15, 20 shops. And yeah, one, two, cough. So it was not like a Jurassic, I don't know, where you've seen that. It was like a iPhone case. That was like a Game Boy. Like, basically you could play a game with it. So yeah, I remember I made my first 10K euros with it, 10K dollars, something like this. So it gave me a lot of run-away. Well, being in Casablanca. Yeah, then you lived in Casablanca. No, then when I made this first 20K, let's say, I started to travel again. So yeah, I went to France, et cetera. And I started to move a little bit. And I started to do the digital Nomad lifestyle that everybody started from. Flip-flop guy. In swimming pants. Which is, by the way, not like it's a myth. It's good, but I don't believe you can really build something big if you don't have like a HQ somewhere. Or at least a room with a desk and a big screen. Yeah. The helps a lot. That's interesting, but I mean, when you were living in Casablanca, it's like. 10k a month crazy there right? - The what? - 10k a month living in Castle Blanc, it's crazy there. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - In France it's already a lot, but like in Castle Blanc, that's right. - Yeah, like I'm gonna see you're like, yeah. - You're so rich there. - Tofu, yeah, yeah, yeah. (laughing) I'm not sure we can find a Bugatti there like this, but, - Almost. - Yeah, okay, so you never really lived in France, you just stayed there temporarily. - No, I did, I'm born and raised in Paris. - Okay, no one else is 15 now left. - With my parents, they moved to Morocco. I stayed two years in Morocco, then they left back to France to study, and I moved a little bit around the world while I was studying. - Got it, and I think you got out of France before things started to get tricky, right? - Tricky, what do you mean by trick? - Like exit action, all that kind of stuff. - Oh yeah, I mean, from my, from a whole way, remember it, I believe it's always been tricky. - Okay, even back in the day, because you moved to Dubai six years ago? - Yeah, six years ago, yeah. - Yeah, it was always cool. - Yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - Exactly. - Yeah. - So it was still tricky back then to move and leave France. You had to like hire a bunch of lawyers and like make sure you did that. - Yeah, I mean honestly, like when I moved here, my net worth wasn't like substantial, right? So honestly, they wouldn't give a fuck about me. But yeah, I remember it's still hiring the lawyer and like making sure. But I never really worked from France. Like I was staying a little bit in Paris the year before going to Dubai, but nothing that would put me at risk. So at the end of the day, I didn't need to do anything. - That's a good life. Yeah, I had to say before I started doing okay, I kind of left and he don't have to worry about it. - Yeah. - Yeah, I mean, what do you think about that? That Dubai's becoming so popular now here. You're still enjoying it? - Honestly, yes, like people say a lot of bad things about Dubai, which I believe is the best advantage for Dubai. - Because people come up. - Exactly, because there is an arbitrage. Like Dubai has this negative image around the world. But I honestly, by this time, I've probably lived in like more than 10 countries. And I deeply believe like if you meet the right people, anywhere we go, you will be fine. Like you will have an amazing life. It's just the quality of your life is gonna be proportional to the quality of the people you have around you. And here, what is beautiful is that because you have all this attraction, like people are very curious about Dubai. I believe in the world there is very few people who will not be curious about Dubai. Like even if they don't like it, like I've had friends who are like, really skeptical about Dubai, who will never move here. But when I told them, hey, come, like you're gonna enjoy it, you know? They were like, okay, why not? And most people, they came here and they were like, wow, like this is actually not like I thought. Like I didn't have to eat poop, you know? - Oh my God. - He says it, he says it. - They're like, yeah, like I honestly, I mean, all these crop about influencers, who are eating poop and were like, parting on notes and stuff. It's probably true. You know, honestly, I believe it's true. Like I've heard a lot of interesting things about that. But who cares, man? Like in every country there are like weird things and like stuff. And at the end of the day, what I love about this city is that you can build your own world. Like you can do whatever the fuck you want. Nobody cares. People, like the government respects you. He doesn't annoy you. Like everything is so simple. And if you just wanna stay at home and like, not see anyone you can, if you wanna go to the places where like people are, I don't know, partying, you can do it. If you don't want that lifestyle, you can also not do it. People have the choice here. - Yeah, I'm always wondering like, how many people are eating poop in like other countries? But so much bad stuff is happening there that nobody talks about. - There should be an index, you know? - Yeah, the worst thing you can find about two buys, the poop thing, but like, what about other countries? Like is that percentage not secretly higher? But then there's crime and there's all that stuff. So nobody talks about it. When you think about it, here a woman can walk at night, like 3 a.m. and nobody cares. Like in which country in the world, this is possible. Like, honestly, yes, Singapore, Hong Kong, maybe a little bit, that's it. - Yeah, no, I mean, I find it also really interesting when people say like, oh, Dubai doesn't have a soul. And I'm like, I mean, you are, you don't have a soul. You don't read any books, you're like drinking beer in the pub like every week. And like, what kind of soul do you have? - Right, yeah, like this is honestly the most bullshit sentence I've heard, like Dubai doesn't have a soul. Like come here, experience what we experience. Like I don't know, like go wake surfing in front of like Jumeirah and watch the sunset while you're wake surfing with your friends. And there tell me Dubai doesn't have a soul. Like, honestly. - Yeah. And everybody's pretty open here because there's so much travel that it's so much easier to meet people and connect with people while in most countries. It's like, oh, I already have a gym, oh, I already have a friend called Tom. Like I don't need anybody else, you know? That's it. - Yeah. And but honestly like, it's amazing. It's an amazing city, especially if you're an entrepreneur, you're driven, you're ambitious. But as well, it's not a city for everybody. This I can definitely understand. You know, it's the same way like when I launched my first business I was like, I wanted everybody to become an entrepreneur. I was like, guys, guys, I found the truth. You know? And it's exactly the same about Dubai. Like at first I was like, guys, like I found the truth. You know, like just come here because it's amazing. But it's actually not a city for everybody. Like a lot of people wouldn't be happy here and I can't understand that. - Yeah, but I mean, these people probably not be happy in other places as well. - Yeah, I don't know if they, yeah, we can go philosophical about it and like say that happiness comes from the inside and stuff. But let's say it would not be the city that will improve the happiness of people. - Yes. - Have you done anything else except doing an Instagram story? Like, hey, are you into crypto semi-DM here that in terms of networking or did that just all happen to organically? - I mean, honestly, like at the very beginning when I launched my first business I was really dedicated into like meeting people and like basically going to business events, like talking and stuff. And yeah, I think at some point, you just reach a point where you know enough people, they are connected to so many people and people come to you organically. Like some good hack in terms of like how to automate networking, let's say, is identify the people who are like their lifestyle or their business makes it so they're constantly talking to new people that are interesting. And if they're good people and you can actually be friend with them, be friend with them. Or if you don't like them, just find a way to give them value, you know? And by connecting to these people that I call connectors, you have access to the world, honestly, because they have like their businesses to leverage connections. Yeah. Gotcha. All right, I mean, I think he went through your whole story. Now I have only one last final question. If you go to MikaNos, can you kind of shut off or will it just be like you'll have your little note pad and you're like, we'll be writing down things every couple of hours, like how's that gonna go? So that's funny because my business partner and I were very different in that regard. He can't shut his brain, like he will be constantly thinking about work. I think I managed to like develop the skill of like shutting off my brain sometimes. Sometimes it's hard, honestly. Like for example, when the business is not going well, there's a problem. I don't have that skill. If my business is not going well, I don't know how people can do it. I can't like have to think about it. Yeah. But if it's going well, I allow myself, like the same way you will stop training when your muscles are sore. I would stop thinking about business for like a few days to just refresh my mind. Yeah. I come back with extra creative juices and skill those ads. Yeah. And for people who really struggle with that, I mean, guys just drink like five shots of tequila and you'll be fine. (laughs) In MikaNos. That's only enough. Yeah, because tequila is healthy also, probiotics and stuff. Very good. Yeah, so if people want to find out more about what you're doing, you have your Instagram, Celine will put it below the video, then decentralized. Monsters, just to give the client profile a little bit, you need to have 100k liquid. So, first of all, what's kind of like the profile? That's to get access to the highest-tier program. All right. I think maybe we brought down the, because the results were so great, we brought down a little bit the amount of liquid money you need to have. Yeah. But apart from that, I mean, we have so many different offers for like even people who have like less capital and still want to benefit from this new ecosystem, this new industry. So, I mean, the best for them is just to like apply, right? Yeah. They go to the website. They apply and our team will review their application and see like if there's someone worth having conversation with. So I'm gonna we can bring value to Got it alright. I think that's clear for them then of course click on the subscribe button if you want to hear more interesting Guests like this that you don't see too often do it guys on the podcast and thanks for thanks man. Thank you, bro