The 30 Biggest Observations in 30 Days of the 30th Season With Nekias Duncan

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i thought it would be really fun to have nikai is on to go through we're gonna play we're we are going to give you guys our 30 biggest observations on the 30th day of the wnba season in its 30th season and when we've got a lot of different you know we when it's one of those episodes where you're gonna jump from thought to thought and try to put together a show that's going to be a lot of fun and i'm sure you're going to have a lot of fun and i'm sure you're going to have a lot of fun and i'm sure you're going to some scattered you know little intuitions into some sort of i don't know grand unified theory i just feel like what better guest to have on than nikai is how was the preparation for this one for you uh it's always well first thanks for having me again it's always a pleasure oh beyond that it's always funny to me because like i'm always watching stuff or looking up stuff or whatever and so to have a podcast where it's like hey just get 30 thoughts together get 30 thoughts together 15 thoughts together it's like simultaneously very much up my alley but also the most terrifying prompt that i could possibly get because it's like okay do i get my most important thoughts do i get my most interesting thoughts is it a mix if it is a mix what do i want to kind of focus in on then like trying to guess what you're going to tap into so there's an overlap it's a whole thing and so i i think we are very aligned in the fun of this concept i'm very fascinated to see like how we put this together me too me too i just thought about you and i was like this guy just has to have the most epic notebook dumps that nobody ever gets to see in the history of of wnba podcasting so it just it just felt like a perfect fit and i am very excited i'm really i i'm i'm curious about what you've made of you know the early part of what has already been like a pretty i think i if i know your instinct and what my instinct has been um so far this season it's probably going to be to zoom in a little bit more on the on-court aspect of it like of course the wnba's 30th season is historically important in ways that like we will tap into throughout the course of the season but i think just 30 days in as some of the small sample sizes become medium sample sizes especially with like the new emphasis on the freedom of movement um this sort of golden generation of guards that we have in the league i kind of figured that you'd be tapping into some trends that you're noticing on the court especially with the expansion teams and just um you know all the new coaching influences that we're seeing in the league as well is it am i right to guess that oh yeah very much went with the on-court focus i do have like one singular gripe among my 15 that i want to tap into and i've been trying to figure out if i want to get to that first and get it out the way or if i want to save it to like the bottom and get to like the actual fun on-court stuff first but yeah for the most part how are you feeling about it right now do you want to just get it off your chest you know yeah because i actually want to dig into some of these teams and players i'm excited about so okay yeah let's get off very early on i have just been very mildly annoyed with the officiating this season and it has been odd to watch teams in real time trying to figure out how physical they can be and i think the teams that have done the best in adjusting particularly off the ball with their physicality those have generally been the best defenses in basketball this year so that part is fascinating to me but yeah like i turn on a game and i just never know when this is going to be a defensive slowdown or the first quarter just took 37 minutes because everyone's fouling and there are a bunch of whistles so like i haven't loved that part and tied to that is like a long-term peeve i've had with the w as much as i love the league what is a legal screen can you tell me what a legal screen is someone tell alana smith someone please tell alana smith she is suffering as as much as i love this league even before is suffering alia boston is suffering it fries me i'm just like someone sometimes these players are just sturdy and you just have to get into the weight room sometimes sometimes your teammate needs to call out that a screen is being set every time you hit the deck because you ran to someone's shoulder is not an offensive foul and i don't like that and the fact that we got the you know the freedom of movement and stuff like that on top of that this year i feel like it's made it worse and so there we go i do think wnba refereeing is overly reactive there's a lot of wait to see if the shot falls and then we're gonna there's a lot of how bad did that player get taken out and then we're going to blow the whistle i almost feel like they're not actually watching the defensive player as much as they are watching like the the fallout of the action and that is definitely very frustrating i agree with you who are who do you think is benefiting and who do you think is hurting the most so far oh benefiting my mind immediately goes to golden state and atlanta at least looking at the defensive because i think both of those teams have done such a good job of just setting the tone defensively the valkyries are always going to help all over the place so you're not going to have fun trying to puncture the paint in any capacity but even as you try to get into off ball stuff against them they're just so handsy and physical and it's very much the they can't call everything mantra i feel like and i feel like oklahoma city yeah it's just like well they're not going to call all of it and like i felt similarly to the fever last year funny enough as they made their massive leap defensively a lot of times they're not going to call all of it and like i felt similarly to the fever last year a lot of that was you're not going to have fun running any kind of pin down stagger or whatever you want to call it off the ball because we're just going to put our paws on you and so those are probably the two that i say in terms of who it's hurt i kind of want to go phoenix at least defensively while i'm here because i think a lot of their early season wonkiness and thank goodness they're starting to make some positive strides as of late we'll get there but i think a lot of that was their defense was elite last year and i think last year they were a high pickup point team we're going to full court pressure you we're also going to be physical off the ball and we'll switch a bunch and you're just not going to have a good time that's headlined by monica koa makani at the point of attack alyssa thomas on the back end get to erase everything and i feel like some of the foul stuff in addition to some players were just missing the start of the year they never really got to establish themselves defensively this year like you didn't really feel them and so i think them having to adjust to their own roster and also the rules just kind of had them on the back foot in a way that they were not going to be able to deal with and i think they're finally starting to turn that around now but that's the first team that comes to mind at the very least here's the other thing that i think is right one thing i'll say about the refs is i think that the call the the intent of refereeing has changed and i do welcome a lot of that however i think that the quality of refereeing has not changed and there's still a systemic pipeline issue with which referees get promoted which ones don't um the entire referee white-blinding in general in women's sports, is really really broken because on the NCAA level there's so much nepotism there's been a lot of good stories about this I think the athletic has done some really good reporting on it too where um if you want well and the other thing that makes it worse too is that um not only is the NCAA pipeline broken but if you do want to be like jump from the NCAA to the WNBA you have to spend a bunch of time in the G League just to learn the rules and sometimes the rules are different in the WNBA also the the players are completely different we're talking men versus women um just doesn't really make sense like the entire pipeline is broken and until that gets fixed I do think that the the the frustrations that fans have with refereeing will persist um on the Phoenix note this will actually this is one one of my observations is that I think I think one of the biggest changes that I've seen or one of the biggest impacts that we've seen from the new emphasis on uh freedom of movement has been like the level of rim pressure that teams are putting on on other teams on offense um the sort of mid-post area has become increasingly a little bit less relevant um efficiency numbers at the at the rim haven't changed however teams are getting to the rim more than ever and they are kind of abandoned that three to ten foot area as well and I think that's two things I think a rim protectors really want to make sure that they can stay out of foul trouble um b I think players guards especially are trying to draw more fouls than ever and you and a third thing also is like just as as the analytics uh become more of a heavy part of how how you know teams play they are abandoning the more of a threes and layups league. And I think a team like Phoenix in particular, because they just don't have that like seven foot rim protect or like that, you know, that six foot four rim protector. They are really struggling with that. On top of the fact that before Monique O'Connor, Connie came back, like they just, I know bro. Sean's been out for a little while. You know, no, good. Just good. As she's been like on offense, it's just a turnstile on the defensive end. And then caught just kind of having a bit of a down year. As well. They just don't have the point of attack defense that we're used to them having. Well, I think that's fair. I think just quickly to your general rim pressure point, this is something I want to talk about a little bit as well. I was looking at some of the drive numbers from second spectrum earlier today, as I was prepping for this. And so going back to 2024 league average for drives per 100 possessions, it was a little over 36 in 2024, around 39 in 2025. It's jumped up to 42.3 so far this year. And so you're starting, you're seeing that steady increase, but on top of, you know, you're getting more whistles at this point. And I think as certain teams have kind of dialed down some of the pressure, like often get to dictate terms a little bit more. I think that's where you're starting to see, like, why would we not just put our heads down? We may be able to get these whistles. We may be able to just be able to set a tone, get defenses on the back foot. And that just serves us better as we get later into game. So I'm curious to see like how that portion kind of normalizes as the year goes on. Exactly. Exactly. All right. One of my, one of my other observations, Kelsey Plum is the biggest, the biggest beneficiary from this bump. Okay. Leads the league. Like, I mean, like we can just start with, she's awesome, right? Like I don't want to take anything away from Kelsey Plum. And I think the player that she has been and has like developed herself into is really serving where the league is going right now. She's always been a really crafty player. And I think last year she was going through a bit of the growing pains of being the number one option. And this year you're seeing all of that sort of like come to fruition where she is so incredibly efficient. Like I, I don't even want to pull out stats because I would just do the whole dump. Like, but there is not a single area right now that she is not sizzling in like isolation, pick and roll. And I think the thing that's helping her a lot is that she's always been one of the strongest guards in the league. Like she can withstand bumps. If you don't, if you can't hold her and grab her and hand check her, she is going to get to the rim. And she's always had that aggressive, like this is a dog factor with her too, as well. Like she's going to try to get to the rim. She led the league in drives for a good portion of last year too. And now she's taking 21% of her shots at the rim. That's the highest since her rookie season. And again, like not and to the detriment of that three to 10 area, like a lot of those floaters have kind of gone away. She's drawing a career high 8.6 free throws per game. And I think the thing too with her is like, she's so good at creating like micro space. Like she will one hand the ball and just drive down the lane and like, give you a little bump with the other, with, with, with the other shoulder without making it an offensive foul and just get enough space to get her shot up. Like there are so many times this season that I've seen her get an and one just from like bumping a defender and getting them off tilt just a little bit. And I think that those types of that type of content contact would have also been considered a little bit more incidental last year. And it's not this year. And I think like, I like, there are a lot, a lot of beneficiaries, but Kelsey just like, I think like she's leading the league and score. Maybe Asia's leading the league in scoring now, but she's either one or two in the league and scoring. And like, I think she's shooting like 50. She's also sizzling, like just from three as well. Like that, that, that stuff will come down, but she's like plus 50% from the three point line. Like she's hitting all of her guarded shots. She's just on an absolute heater to start the season. I think like, if not her for her ankle injury, if not for the sparks being off to a tough start, but I also like it, she would be an MVP, like in the sort of fake, non-Asia MVP conversation that we can have. She would be in that. And I mean, I, and I think like just how much worse the sparks are without her kind of bears it out too. Yeah, I think. So she is slightly second behind Asia after Asia just had a near triple double last night. And we will absolutely talk about it. Don't you worry. I'm right there with you. A Kelsey plum. Like she has been such an electric offensive player this year. She's converting 69, percent of her twos to start the season. Like that's not how any of that is supposed to work. I think 69% on twos, 44% on threes get into the line a lot. As you've mentioned already 1.26 points per possession on any trip featuring a Kelsey plum drive this year, which is patently absurd. That's not how that's supposed to work either. And I think to your point about like how she wins, like there is still the burst. She's able to kind of play through camp contact. As you mentioned, the footwork is also not how that's supposed to work. Like the amount of drives where it is to your point, let's get the shoulder to get you off kilter as the defender is trying to recover that second step. She's holding it for what feels like 10 minutes before she actually goes up with the shot. He's like hops where she goes into slow motion. She kind of waits you out and it's like not a travel. Cause she hasn't put the foot down and like she's in her motion, but she's also so strong with the ball that she can actually afford to pull off movements like that without like being at risk of, of being stripped as much as other players too. Yeah. Sorry. Keep going. Yeah, no, you're good. No, it's just the full finishing package that she has is pretty much unparalleled in the league right now. And so the sparks four and four in the games that she's played in so far, like obviously they are better with her on the floor versus what they're off. If this is a team that ends up being like over 500 in the games that she plays, like she's absolutely going to factor into some MVP conversations or at the very least all W first team. Like she has just been, what has she been like when healthy, like a top three, top four player this year. I'll say so. Like she has been incredible, which my broader sparks takeaway is please get it together on defense. So all of this just makes sense. So we can like fully celebrate what's happening with the Kelsey plum season and others, but I'm right there with you. I've really enjoyed watching Kelsey plum this year. Absolutely. There's also an interesting sort of like, I don't know if there's like a through line building at all, as we get to the guard conversation too. I think Kelsey plum is sort of that perfect example of the type of player. That people would, what it might've said is too small to be the number one option on a team. Right. And Kelsey has fought this her, her entire career. She, you know, me, she, she does a dog class in the off season where she invites young players who are kind of in that sort of like five, six to five, eight range, like smaller guards to train up, to be ready for the WNBA. And you're seeing like some of those players thrive. Some of those players struggle. I would be so curious to ask her like, Hey, what do you think Georgia Amor? Should be doing to, to kind of be able to cement her place in the league. But plum is somebody who really struggled in her first few years. And she went like, it's, it's interesting. I always think I don't want to like, you know, I know, I know the Becky Hammond, Jalen Brunson thing. It's been like beat to death at this point, but I do think there's something very interesting psychologically on a coaching perspective that like Becky Hammond, another small guard was the first coach to fully empower Kelsey Mitchell, bring her off the bench, helped her become an all-star, but then also like, kind of saw the limits of what she was capable of doing. And perhaps in the, in the WNBA before this freedom of movement emphasis was, was changed, perhaps that was also the right way to think about it too. But I think Kelsey is a player who what she's doing this season probably doesn't happen last season. And it is sort of a representative of the shift that we're seeing in, in, in player development, but also like what is emphasized in the game that is allowing guards to exist, like on that level of efficiency that might make it, you know, worth, while for coaches to start thinking about, okay, how do we really gear actions towards helping these players thrive? I think you see that with the Sparks. It's not just Kelsey Plum run a high pick and roll for us and create. There is so much of her running around to kind of set up her touches. I think you see similar elements in Indiana with Kelsey Mitchell to where we're obviously flying her off of pin downs to make sure she can get shots. But even if we want to set up a pick and roll for her, can we get her catching the ball, pitching it back, and then flying into something to get her downhill? Because it's so difficult to keep her and Kelsey Plum just out of the paint in general. If the defense is already tilted, you're having an even tougher time. And then when you bake in how the games are being called so far this year, you're even more in peril. Because if you try to be physical to try to work your way back, you're just giving them free throws. And both of them are excellent free throw shooters. On top of what you just mentioned, they can finish through that contact too. I'm curious to see how teams try to react to this. Because the overarching theme, getting to talk, to Becky Hammond and some of the other coaches around the league, it's a pretty consistent theme of we're all still trying to adjust to this. We're going to figure it out. So I'm not super worried yet as it's early in the year. But we are still very much trying to figure out what we can do while still maintaining what our core principles are defensively. Yeah. What's your next observation? I guess since we're on the Sparks, I'll go ahead and stay here. I've already kind of alluded to it to a degree. I really feel like Ariel Atkins is having an all-defense caliber season. And it just has not mattered. Mm-hmm. Because the Sparks defense as a whole has been so bad this year. And that's also, like, selfishly part of why I want them to turn this around. Because I need people to understand what she's being asked to do, first and foremost, and what she's been doing across multiple contexts. Like, this is, we get Sparks-Mercury early in the year. Ariel Atkins, your assignment is Alyssa Thomas. In these matchups against the Las Vegas Aces, you will spend some time on Chelsea Gray. You will spend some time on Jackie Young. Mm-hmm. You may just have to switch on to Asia Wilson. Or at the very least, you are going to be primary helper if you want to send some double teams towards her. She has been an absolute monster off the ball. When I was looking at some of the player tracking data the other day, like, when she has to defend a pick and roll, it's been an elite clip, despite what the Sparks as a whole have been. When she's had to defend drives, it's an elite clip, again, despite what the Sparks as a whole have been. I just want to give Ariel Atkins her flowers. Yes. And, like, there's been, obviously, a lot of conversation around her over the past few months in light of the Rekia Jets. Which, please get well soon, Rekia. It just stinks that she had that start. And now we just have to wait until next year to see her again. But she has done her job defensively, at the very least. Everyone else just kind of needs to round into form on that front. But that concludes, I think, my Sparks thoughts. You hit on Kelsey Plum. I just want to talk about Ariel Atkins' defense because it has been very good, despite what the overall context is. Well, they did have one of their first good defensive performances against the Portland Fire. And I think Ariel Atkins was a huge part of slowing down Carla Leigh, who, segue, is one of my observations. I find, I think, I think Alex Sarama is guard-maxing in a way that nobody else in the WNBA is. Guard-maxing. He's guard-maxing in a way that nobody else in the WNBA is right now. The amount of pick and rolls that they run for her, the amount of isolation that they run from her. I find it very interesting that Portland and Minnesota, too, of, like, the more. of the more healthier offenses this season, are really just throwing away versatility and just saying, we are going to spam the same action over and over again. We're going to put the ball in the hands of a player that we don't think that you can guard one-on-one, and you guys are going to have to deal with it. And I think that's a big part of what Carla Leigh's early success has been. Like, he's just really been leaning into the recalibration of what guards are capable of in the modern WNBA that I don't think. enough coaches are. are doing right now. Mm-hmm. No, I'm right there with you. Carla Leigh has been one of my favorite guards to watch this year. Like, you watch her with Golden State last year, the drives are just going to pop off the screen for you. Like, that burst. And she's not at all afraid of contact on top of that. There's just a level of fearlessness that comes with her play style that should already pique your interest. And so now you put her in this Portland context where she's going to play a lot more minutes, she's going to have a lot more responsibility. It is nearly 75. nearly 75. on-ball picks received per 100 possessions, which is, like, pretty easily the highest mark in the league of home players that have, like, actually. they're actually getting consistent rotation minutes to your overall volume point. And she has just been up for the challenge. And then when you talk about what the actual spacing principles are in Portland and the way that they clear both of those wings, we're going to have a guard screen for her. Or if we're going to go traditional pick and roll, let's set those screens flat. You can go whatever direction you want to. Because the wings are empty, there's not going to be any immediate help coming your way, so you can just get into the teeth of the defense and make reads from there. It's been really smart on that front as well, which I guess kind of dovetails into my Portland take, in which I don't know if I would have Alex Arama as the coach of the year, at least as of June 9th. I don't know. He'd certainly be in the running for it. But he's probably had my favorite coaching season at the very least. So I just enjoy watching what the Portland Fire want to do on both ends of the floor, regardless of if it actually works or not. The concepts are. It's so strong, you can immediately feel what the logic is. And it's easy to kind of envision, ooh, what happens if free agent X is now interested in this? If the collective talent raises with these principles, what is that going to look like? And so I try not to think too far ahead, but he has just done such a good job of establishing what the principles are on both ends of the floor. And it's also just a pleasure listening to the post-practice stuff, the pregame stuff. He doesn't mind giving up what he's trying to do. And so I appreciate that as a media member and someone that just genuinely wants to learn about basketball. So quick hat tip to Al Sarama. Well, he's just a huge basketball nerd. I think he's a huge nerd in general. Do you think that there's a world in which Sabrina Ionescu is like, damn, I really signed that three-year deal, Oregon native. Now, is she looking over at what Carla Leight is doing or do you think she's happy? She's probably fine. One, I just want to see Sabrina on the court. This is true. So that would be cool. Like, please get. Put the back and things together. I don't love hearing that. But yeah, I wonder if she would have rather done like a two-year deal just to see like, hey, what does this mean? What can I do? Can this just be mine? Well, it's just been such a surprise how good they've been as well. I don't think that they were like, I think like the Temple were probably the team that people were probably looking at. And, you know, I think Portland's actual on-court execution versus their PR execution have just been on completely different levels. I will say Sabrina fits in with the demographic that it seems like Portland is like, is it going to go with. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's a good one. Did you listen to the podcast that we did with Noah Dalzell? I have not finished it yet. Did you get to the Alex Sarama portion of it? Yes. Oh, okay. I was going to put you through the test. Okay. But you've already done it. No, y'all get it. But no, this guy is like, the things that he does though with like the, with the, you know, the constraints led approach and like all the different places that he's tapping from, he's just like, so like into, you know, motor function and like the way that people, that players can find like micro ways to develop their games. It seems like their practices are really fun. They're full of novelty. He has like historically has had them, you know, kind of, he's contested shots with pool noodles. He makes players like stretch with poles and then like, like sword fight each other. Like there's just like weird stuff. They obviously there was like the practicing and stuff. Yeah. And Hey, so far it's working, right? Like the funny thing was stuff like that. I mean, they have, they have lost three straight, so we'll see what happens. But I'm, I'm, I'm still a pretty big fan. Actually, let's, let's get to the Asia Wilson portion. I think it's been long enough. I literally have in my notes. It's scary that Asia has looked like this while not being a plus Asia for most of the year. Like it's such a testament to how good she is. They're like, I've watched these aces games, particularly early on this year, where it's like, okay, well, Asia's not fully formed on defense yet. Asia's not knocking down the middies yet. Let's see how the playmaking perks up for Asia. And then you zoom out and it's 26, 10 and three, a steal in two blocks, 52% on twos, 56% on threes, 84 from the line. It's like, what do you mean? This is like the B plus version right now. It's insane. I think she is having her easiest, most seamless scoring season that she has ever had before. Career high, 77.5% of her two point field goals have been assisted this year. She's putting up career highs and efficiency and you're right. It just, it just doesn't even feel like she's come fully online yet. Had a near triple double the other night. I kind of predicted, she'd have like a more assist heavy season than she has, but she hasn't really needed to. And I do wonder if there's a level at which defenses are reacting to her playmaking ability and saying, okay, I guess, well, they're going to have to re-react because I think maybe they were saying, okay, I guess we'd rather give up the middie, but just like everybody else in the league, it seems like she is shooting less mid range jumpers and she is trying to get to the line more. Although I think she could definitely get to the line a little bit more than she has shadow Becky Hammond for that one too. Um, yeah, - And it's just, i'm really excited to see where this season ends ends up like shaping up for asia yeah i mean at this rate it's just another mvp because i think she has just been the best player in the league and like i have struggle is way too strong because it's very easy to talk about asia wilson i do not want to make any poems about that i think in terms of the evaluation i've been trying to figure out like how to convey some of the okay this part hasn't been great yet with asia without coming off as missing the greatness that we're seeing because again the fact that i could nitpick with some of the like decision making or some of the rebounding's been kind of weird for her this year i tweeted about her screening earlier this season and like that's gotten better over the past few games it's like okay here's some things in which she can actually be better this is how defenses are treating her a little bit different but like she is still the best player in the league with a little bit of a gap and like trying to rectify those two thoughts has been like a fun time for me in parts this year but i ultimately just come away just super impressed because especially with the three-point shot like it's two and a half attempts so like there's just a little bit of a volume tax here but if she is just going to be comfortable oh i'm spaced i'll just take this in the flow i think in seattle what was it five three-point attempts for her it's like if we get to where she's taking four or five a game in addition to the drive and becky running her off of pin downs and some of these middle flashes that are starting to be sprinkled in more to kind of counter how teams have been sending late help against her and limiting some of the rimba tips oh boy well she's almost she's almost taking for a game right now and i think it opens up her face-up game which is incredibly difficult to double as well and it's not that she isn't posting up she's posting up just a little bit differently than than she then she has and also i think becky's done a really good job of like her in different ways against different teams um per 100 possessions she's going she's averaging 40 points a game that's insane career high yeah that's a career high it is a career high she's not she doesn't have a career high in points but it's also like it kind of speaks to how terrifying this is it's sort of like she is she's like a giant sort of start starting to awake from her slumber i just don't think you should be able to like sleep walk into like 23 and 9 you should you fully wake up you should make that illegal what is zoron mabdoni's plan to make it illegal for asia wilson to be able to just like chill and get 23 and 9 well clearly it is to have as many six four or taller players on one roster as possible i will say don malanga almost gave her fits but then like you're the foul just like she she downloads what you're she downloads what you're uh what you're trying to do to her very quickly too which makes it even more difficult i don't like i've been trying to ask her more questions uh to kind of tap into that point uh over the past couple of years i do think broadly people do not understand how smart of a basketball player she is i think it's easy to kind of get lost in her dominance without really tapping into she's dominating because she knows where things are coming like the mid-range shot is cool you're not picking up like how she's getting into how she's quick in her stance or she's changed her footwork to get into these different shot windows because she's anticipating help coming from a certain side and stuff like that like she is incredibly cerebral and she's still growing that part of her game and so i i want to make sure i highlight that as well but yeah she's she's special she's special yeah this um this brings me into one of my sort of more half-baked versions of of this of this right now but i wanted to just run through some of the things that i've learned about her and i've learned a lot about her run it by you okay i am really curious what the peaks like the the highest highs of modern wnba players are going to look like in a new era where asia wilson for example has had the privilege of not really having to play overseas in the last few years um and we're seeing so many advancements in the space of women's health in sports um and i think it's really important for us to be able to we're just seeing i mean hey the load management era is absolutely here whether you're picking up on it or not teams are load managing um we're in the health surveillance era of the wnba we're in the hour ring era and i think that it's going to it already has had an impact on a lot of players primes i think but it's going to make me very curious how a player like asia um continues to sort of hang on to that not even hang on she's still it's like is she coming into her prime is this the apex of her prime is there something more like those are the biggest questions i have when i think about asia and there's so much context that has shifted around her that can impact that that but then also it's what you're saying about she's still figuring out some of the cerebral aspects like the fact that they are in nits to pick just tells me that we're not even at the sea right now we're not even at the sea right now we're not even at the sea right and i think i guess one of the more underrated things about asia if we talk about just her holistically she's missed what five games in the last like seven or eight years or whatever it is like she has been incredibly durable throughout all of this so even as we're talking about her aging out like what is it going to be age 35 age 36 when we finally start to see her actually get load managed to a certain degree and by the time we get to the end of the season we're going to by that time is she actually taking four threes a game are we just tapping more into the high post playmaking from her knowing that she can just get to a mid-range jumper whenever she wants to contest it or not because she's already doing that like her longevity her longevity is going to be whatever she wants it to be yeah and like that is both a blessing and also terrifying for opposing teams when you think about that because like the version of asia that becomes like the fourth best player in the league that means a lot of things that are going to happen in the future so i think maybe just be eight years away and then you're still having to deal with that eight years from now that's the thing like we when like i think i think we like try to map it out um like in men in men's sports that idea has always been like at that 29 30 range where you're like you're still physically where you want to be you're fully developed as far as like your skill development goes you're mentally advanced um you've seen everything like it's just like the the combination of like mind body experience understanding of environment and that's historically been like younger for most wnba players with like the a few notable exceptions and the fact that we're starting to see more and more exceptions is quite notable to me um and with asia like when i balance all those things i'm like are we even like i don't know i don't know that we're there yet um which is crazy yeah this episode is brought to you by the home depot the home depot has everything you need to launch your holiday season in style upgrade your yard with this year's hottest holiday decor including the show-stopping towering santa oh i like that one and his impressive reindeer both 8.5 feet and both designed with incredible detail that stands out day or night when you want decor that delivers impact the home depot has it make your home santa's favorite stop with the holiday decor you want all waiting for you at the home depot are you looking for support in your weight management journey zep bound terzepetide may be able to help zep bound is a prescription 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procedures with anesthesia if you're nursing pregnant plan to be or taking birth control pills taking zep bound with a sulfonyl urea or insulin may cause low blood sugar side effects include nausea diarrhea and vomiting which can cause dehydration and worsen kidney problems talk to your doctor call 1-800-545-5979 or visit zepbounds.lily.com all right what's next for you okay uh let's go with the atlanta dream really quickly as they've had a very good season despite not having brie jones yet the offense has been kind of hit or miss overall i think in large part because brie jones hasn't been there to kind of settle them down in the half court at times this feels like the first time in like three or four years in which like ryan howard to me has just firmly been atlanta's best player and that is such a fun development for me because she has always had this potential she has always had this talent on any given night ryan can be a top five player in the league because of her ability to knock down shots from anywhere play make defend all over the place and at least defensively, it feels like she is really just putting it all together. First all-defense campaign last year, and this year, she has been an absolute hog. Like, I'll put her on your point guard. She's not going to have fun. Put her on a non-shooter so she can roam around. You're not going to have fun trying to initiate anything or run anything to her side. She's getting so many of these passing lane steals. Like, one, she's averaging over three steals a game as recording, which that's just not supposed to happen either. Yeah, six steals the other game. Like, it's so fun. Like, any time any time teams try to get into, like, Iverson action to set something up which is just a player running across two screens to the opposite side of the floor, watching Ryan Howard track those where it feels like even if she gets clipped on that first screen, she's just going to teleport. She's also, very subtle thing, but she's very good about having, like, that outside hand up when defending off the ball. And so she just gets so many of those little soft deflections that turns into steals and is going the other way. That part's been a blast. And then, what is it, 41% from three on over eight attempts? So far this year, she's still doing good work as a playmaker. I'm keeping eyes, I continue to keep eyes on her drives, but those feel like they're being, they're a little bit deeper into the paint this year. And so, like, she is just fruiting together a two-way season where, like, I feel like she's been slightly better than Alicia this year who has been an insane scorer to start the year. The best driver in basketball, at least statistically. Alicia Graham, one of the players that have logged at least 50 so far this year. But what Ryan's doing on both ends of the floor and the offense feeling bad and the offense feeling bad and the process feeling, but not perfect, but feeling better is where, like, I've been waiting to say Ryan Howard is just the best player on this team because she's always had the talent to do so and the dream want her to be that. She is their franchise player still. But, like, this is the first time I've, like, felt it consistently. And that excites me. Yeah. I'm still a little, like, the drives. I'm not going to lie. I know, and I don't know if maybe it's, like, just reductive to think like this, but I do think, like, for part of me, part of it for me is also how highly I think of her ability to put pressure on the rim. But she has been the best player. I agree with you on that. And I don't know. It's like I struggle. Like, I don't want to overly criticize the one thing that I don't like. However, at the same time, it does feel glaring at times. But on the defense, on the defensive end of it, though, I think you're absolutely right. Like, even just, like, the deflections that she gets, like, almost for, like, free, that, like, no other player in the league gets, sort of, like, the ability, like, Sonia Citron bobbles the ball a little bit and she's just, like, there. Sort of thing. Yeah, exactly. And I'm, like, I kind of wonder, like, what she would look like being a little bit more of, like, a multi-positional player as well. Like, I know Alana's not necessarily built that way, but I loved in Team USA when she was, like, playing that four as, like, the stretch four a little bit more as well. And, like, maybe that forces her to use her size a little bit more and, like, get inside the rim. And, again, I don't know. Maybe I'm being, like, reductive. Maybe I'm seeing, like, the player that I want her to be versus, like, the player that she is. But I just, I do have these nights where it's, like, if the shot's not falling, I would love for her to look for other things. No, I think that's fair and I think that has largely been the thing that's held me back with her. And, again, I feel like she's made strides. She is still not, like, a star-level driver or a star-level inside-yard creator. For me, it's, like, I love that I'm seeing progress on that front because everything else is so good. And so if that final piece clicks into place, then you're just looking at a superstar because she's already giving you star-level impact. That's the thing. It's, like, you could be an MVP. Like, you could be definitely an MVP-type player, like someone that we talk about in those conversations. Yeah. Fake MVP, of course. No, I get you because Asia's just here. But, no, in all seriousness, like, that's where I'm, like, I'm encouraged by the games in which she's putting shoulder into chest and getting deeper into the paint. Like, I want that to be more consistent because, like, even now, I think it's 41% or 42% on twos for her so far this year. Like, that's not where you want it to be. You want that efficiency to come up. And part of that is being able to, like, you know, the early pickups on some of her drives, like cutting some of those out and working deeper, knocking down some of the mid-range shots that she likes to take. That all come together. But at least process-wise, it's felt better. And while that part is being worked out, it helps that she's just bombing away from three right now and getting them across multiple contexts. Playmaking without, turning the ball over and the defense has just been all over the world. So I just want to salute Ryan for what this year has been. And, you know, similar to the Asia conversation, it's scary that there is still noticeable steps for her to take to get even better. And she's this good already. So I wanted to sprinkle that in. Yeah, I love that. Love that. Okay. I'm going to do my first hot take. Oh, okay. What we got? Olivia Miles needs to be in the non-Asia fake MVP conversation. Oh, I thought you were going to say hot. I thought you said hot. It's not a hot take. Okay, it's not. Look, so here's the thing. I tweeted her numbers in her first 10 games compared to Caitlyn and Paige in their first 10 games. You know, kind of just to make the point that this is three years in a row that you have generational point guard talents coming up. I put in their net rating and the team record as well, which got me some hell from the Paige and Caitlyn fans. And while, hey, look, here's what I'll say. When, the season turned around for Caitlyn and what you're seeing with Dallas this year, a lot of that is due to what those two players are capable of doing. That same thing stands for Olivia Miles. I love Cheryl Reeve. I love what Natasha Howard is doing on this team. Olivia Miles is the author of this, of this early season success of this number one record. We're recording this before Wings links. So we'll see what happens in that game. But they are, Minnesota is by far the best team in net rating, the best team in point differential. Their offense is amazing. They have a 25 point swing when Olivia Miles is on the court versus off the court. That's insane. She's running that offense. She's fueling the pick and roll. Like again, like they are spamming that action over and over again. And they can do that because Olivia Miles has so much variability early in what she is willing and able to do on the court. Like she can just slow down and read the game in a way that like, I just, I haven't seen from rookie. I didn't see, like you didn't see this from like early Caitlin, early page. Like how you, you could even compare Olivia Miles right now to those players. And you'd come away thinking like, oh, there's some places where I'd rather have Olivia Miles. Like just the things that she's doing is absolutely insane. Last five games, she's averaging 20.7 and a half assists, five rebounds, plus 19.4. The efficiency is off the chart. It's like, I just don't know what you could ask for from a player this early into her career. But at this point, I'm comparing, comparing to the rest of, you know, the elite players in the league. And I'm just like, if I like, I don't know how I don't have her in a conversation like that when you consider the start that Minnesota is having and how integral she has been to it. No, like I don't think that's unfair. Like she has been the most electrifying offensive piece that they have. And I think Cheryl Reeve trusting Olivia to this degree this early speaks to how good she is and clearly how good she's been in practice for Cheryl Reeve to be like, actually, yes, here's the offense. Courtney Williams, could not be happier that Olivia Miles is running this offense. I can just flow off ball, run some secondary stuff and take all the mid-range shots that my heart desires. I love that for her. But no, it was like 17-5-6 for Olivia Miles so far this year. The one thing that I kind of keep an eye on with her, at least offensively, was like she had some turndowns against drop and against late switches where she didn't seem comfortable like taking jumpers off the dribble. It was like, at some point, you're going to have to show that you are willing to do that just so you don't have these record-scratch moments offensively. Not just on one game flurry that's like 8-3. You don't want to say that brings her percentages up completely. Definitely something to watch, yes. Yeah, so it was just funny for me. I tweeted that out two or three games later. It is that 8 of 11 from three games to go to see. It's like, okay, it may not be that every night, but at least it's in there that you will see it under and be like, fine, I am taking this and not even thinking twice about it. And I think as she has that paired with the drive she has already been an elite driver and loved the Statue of Liberty flail that she gets to all the time. The amount of rejects that she gets to in pick and roll, that's probably the most underrated thing for me when it comes to her because the playmaking should speak for itself if you watch five minutes of a Lynx game. There is not a pass that she can't make. There is not a pass that she isn't willing to make, which is a lot of fun for me and I'm sure it points to each other. It's so fun. The behind the backs and nutmegs, the pocket passes, everything. The post-entities, the transition, all of it. She's got the full passing bag. With both hands on top of that. That's not what that's supposed to look like. But the amount of times where the Lynx line up and they're going to go Spain pick and roll or they're going to go to double drag and Olivia's just like, actually, you're trying to cheat and navigate the screen because you know if I beat you, you're cooked. Let me just go the other way and no one is going to be fast enough to deal with me and she's even talked about very early on this year how much she loves the space that she has because of the defense of three seconds where it's like, oh, I can just get down here, get downhill more. And I don't know how you put that in a box. Now, you know, similar to earlier, I'm curious to see what happens when team mixes in more switching or more late switches just to make her think a little bit more. But she has the ball handling. She has the speed to just beat bigs off the bounce. And if you give her any sort of traditional coverage, she has the playmaking chops to get you. So I'm right there with you. Like, I think she is probably their MVP rep if you have to give the Lynx one. All due respect to what natasha howard has done so far this year yeah courtney williams for that matter but i think she's the one one if you're gonna give to it absolutely and we'll talk talk about natasha howard in a second but um i think the part of the reason that she doesn't take a lot of early pull-ups is because she is so nifty with those screens and natasha howard is so good as a re-screener as well that olivia is sort of like i think you know despite the fact that we are seeing this scoring output from her um she's thinking pass first you know i think she's thinking like okay like she almost she already has like the basketball supercomputer like she if you're gonna go under to the degree that the valkyries did like the valkyries went under more than any other team did then i think olivia probably knew that going into the game that they were doing that so she was prepped to shoot and she was like okay like this is what they're like i just i just have to prove it right and i think she's gonna have to do those prove it moments um however i don't think that that's just like the shot that she's gonna look for just because she's open like i think she's still gonna think like my biggest strength is how i can put pressure on the rim either as a passer or a driver so like okay if you go under the screen and i still have like 10 seconds and this is where minnesota is just awesome as a late clock team like i think she already has that awareness of like seven seconds eight seconds that's enough time for me to like get a re-screen it like even give me another re-screen on top of that and then we'll see where i'm at like with like four to five seconds left to go in the clock and i can i can give you like that sort of like like last second pass i can you know put you in a in a cage in that moment if i have to and the other thing is natasha howard who like let's all just get to my natasha howard observation next it's such a good slipper that even on those switches it's like i don't know good luck good luck good luck like she has a very versatile um uh pick and roll player with her but yeah my next observation they go kind of hand in hand and tasha howard i think is just having a total reinvention of her game like the ultimate late career renaissance um career high 17 points per game right now um olivia miles has assisted on over a quarter of her buckets but i think the one thing that has really stood out to me and it kind of gets to the theme that i've been thinking about where like teams that are like you know like you know like you know like you know like teams are sort of like abandoning i guess like a couple of teams i noticed are abandoned like the notion of versatility um and just sort of like spamming efficiency uh natasha howard is basically taking all of her shots at the rim this year um this is a play that we think of like a sort of like yeah she's a rim player but like you think of her as like a short roll connector that can like occasionally hit that like nine foot eight foot shot she's just not doing that this year um her shot distance is at an absolute career low do you want to guess what it is uh i'm gonna say 5.7 feet four feet okay that'll do get to the rim i like it she's up there she's just living at the rim shooting a career high 64 from the field um she's never even been like in in the 60s for an entire season before and she's still doing the passing she's still getting her assists um but i think that you know cheryl reeve kind of said prior to the season like we can kind of get her back to like doing what she's really good at and she's still doing the passing she's really good at and she never really had the opportunity to coach her in her like absolute prime that's at the time she was in seattle and i think that you know cheryl's just making up for lost time to agree right now too like um but i do think that in general like i do i really feel that these teams that are committing to a vision of how they want to play um and doing it consistently like are are benefiting um and and natasha howard is a prime example for that and then when i think about like putting her skill set through like the ringer pun intended of olivia miles and and cheryl reeve it just makes me so damn excited for when fee is back because i can't even imagine what like are we gonna see like 60 40 90 like with like forget 50 40 90 like you know like what what kind of insane efficiency numbers are we gonna see from from feet if like granted obviously um there's a health aspect of it too and you don't would like but i think like with the way they're playing it also just like gives her some freedom of like hey you don't have to rush back anytime soon either like take your time get like make sure you're completely ready to go and and when she is like it's gonna be terrifying i i guess i'll flow into my minnesota thoughts while we're here in my notes i have i feel so much vindication with the links respect natasha howard and nia coffee olivia miles mvp candidate so i'm glad that we are alive a lot of stuff here but like so we just talked a lot about natasha howard so i guess i will shift to like the overall vindication because i as respectfully as i can ask rhetorically why were people so concerned about the minnesota links heading into the season it's like we have this large sample of how they want to play the shots they want to generate their overall principles with their spacing how much they key in on screening to my earlier point my annoyance with how refs call it but like they are so good at generating advantages and defensively they are so good at shrinking space now i heading into the year like i had a pot with noah said hey i'm just not as low on the links as a lot of people are say this to steve heading into the year i i think the links are just going to be fine did i anticipate that the minnesota links were going to have the best record in the w second best offense best defense best net rating like i did not say that so i'm not here to like pat myself on the back etc but like with what they want to do on both ends of the floor it was easy for me to see how natasha howard would fit into this and she is coming off of a good fever i don't think she got enough love for what she did with indiana last year with her offensive rebounding the rent is which i don't think the minnesota links just being an elite offensive rebounding team this year is just incredibly funny for me and for anyone that's followed the links for a long time but what natasha howard did with her offensive rebounding the random duck ends just the secondary scoring that she created in indiana yeah let's ramp this up in minnesota where we're running more pick and roll and you are just the primary screening partner for this point guards this pick and roll savant and olivia miles yeah the scoring is probably going to be back up and if we're going to be activity based defensively we chew up space with our nail help when defending a pick and roll we're going to have our bigs up to the level natasha howard fits into all of that like former d-point for a reason because she could be so activity based made sense to me that she would be good did you have them oh sorry i know you feel passionate about let me do it no no let me let me space the floor for you let me space the floor for you here like mia coffee is doing for this pick and roll dear mia coffee has long been one of my favorite like under the radar role players in the w since i seriously started covering it back in 22 when it's like if you are a four that can step out and knock down threes you're willing to screen you're willing to defend multiple positions like you are just the kind of gap filler complimentary that i'm going to be in on and like anyone that's followed my nba work knows that i enjoy fours like that that can just do a look do whatever you need them to do it doesn't have to be a high volume score to do so and so for her to slide in to minnesota's content when when the signing was announced i immediately tweeted out oh that's such a stealthy signing for minnesota because she was part of like my free agency list of like players that i'm keeping tabs on i want to see where she goes i didn't think she's going to be back in atlanta and she has performed at an all defense level this year she has been their best run protector with by like a large margin in my opinion and she's also been skiing versatile when they needed her to switch but with the way that the links ramp things up if she's on the back end you're not getting clean shots at the rim against her and to as you already alluded to on the offensive end like i will just space like i'll be part of the double drag package to where she screens she pops natasha howard screens she rolls and then you kind of play out of that she's comfortable taking threes above the break it's not just corner work for her she can get busy on the offensive glass as well if you're not if you're not keeping tabs with her off the ball she's just done a really good job and i am glad that she is having the year she has because she's been doing a lot of good work and she's i think that talent has always been there we've seen stretches of that in atlanta during that run before she fell out of favor last season and so those two playing together has been if olivia miles has been the best part of the link season those two playing together playing that well in tandem has probably been like my favorite part of this links run so far they both deserve more respect one of my observations which i will just blow past because i don't think that i should try to follow you on this run because i don't think that i should try to follow you on this run because Nia Coffey is Nia Coffey's second best role player in the WNBA this season. I guess that segues naturally to most important role player with the caveat that I'll be talking about Jess Shepp later. Natasha Mack might be the most important role player in the WNBA. Middie Mack, let's go! Middie Mack, yo, the growth of that aspect of her game has just opened up so much for her. For a Phoenix team that desperately, as we talked about at the top, needs her rim protection, her general ability to eat up space on the defensive end. I think it's one of those for her to shine, it's one of those perfect marriages of need and ability. They desperately need a player who can do that, and she fills that role so well that you kind of wish that they had. Honestly, I wish they had two of her. I think they do too. To your earlier rim protection point. I wish that they had two of her at this point, man. Yeah, she is tasked with doing a lot. And like, if you saw her last year or even the year before, honestly, you already know what the skeleton of Natasha Mack is. I'm going to screen my tail off, I will finish things at the rim, I will crash the offensive glass. Defensively, I will guard whoever you ask me to guard in the front court with some occasional switches sprinkled in, and I'm going to clean the glass on that end too. And so the fact that you were getting all of that plus, oh, I'm not being guarded from 11 feet, I will just sprinkle this in. Let me move from the dunker spot to the free throw line or we're not flowing into something else. Fine, I will just turn face up and not down this shot. It's such an important counter for her just individually and to see that kind of later career growth has been a lot of fun for me, but for a Mercury team that has just been trying to find a level of flow offensively this year. They've been trying to find a lot this year if we're going to go broad strokes with the Mercury, but for a team that's been looking for more like second half of the possession connectivity, Natasha Mack being able to sprinkle those in, that kind of matters throughout the course of a game. It's not like she's taking 10 a game or anything like that. This isn't a fee mid-range run, but it feels good where, okay, that didn't feel great. We got points. We can just kind of flush that one. Let's try it again on the next position. She's been such an important connective piece in that regard, and it is to what she already does defensively, just with the general dirty work. I love this season from her. Absolutely. It's what you were able to take away from her in the playoffs last year, right? If she had that shot, it's just the ability to keep the defense honest, right? Maybe you have to actually think about defending them in a different way as well. I mean, I don't think it's to the degree that we're having a different conversation about who the final, who wins the finals, but that series definitely could have been closer. So Jess Shep is not, to me, the most important role player in the league, because Jess Shep is an all-star this year. Jess Shep is maybe the most improved player. Jess Shep and AZN Page are maybe the closest thing we have so far in the WNBA to the trio of Steph Curry and Draymond. I just love what she's doing this year. 13 points, 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 75% at the rim. Another player who's just absolutely spamming the rim, and to me, this feels like a culmination of something, or maybe an invention, an innovation for her, just some sort of mastery. It just feels like a new player prototype, almost, like what she is doing with the Dallas Wings surrounded by shooters. She is initiating offense for them. She will take the ball out of the basket on rebounds and just dribble it off the floor. She's finding Page on cuts. The dribble handoffs and the actions with AZ have been amazing. Her and AZ as a two-woman duo has just been awesome. A 4-to-1 assist-to-turnover ratio is a thing that really just, whew! She's a modern Marvel. I just think that the way the game is, and maybe she's the player that, if you're having trouble figuring out how to get away with hard screens right now in the modern WNBA, maybe she's the tape that you watch, but she is just doing all the things that you need to be the connective tissue of two great guards, one of whom is probably going to go down as one of the best pure shooters that we've ever seen. It's just been the nucleus of this thing. It's been so fun to watch, and she's such a huge part of that. In my notes for Dallas, I have, is Jessica Shepard going to ruin the Paige MVP run? Yo! And it's like. Talk about it. Oh, the win shares? Talk win shares to me, Nikias. I'm sorry to disappoint. I'm not going to talk win shares with you. I think, broadly speaking, like, one, Paige is still just the best player on this team. Let's be very clear about that. But I wonder as. But if you have an agenda. If you have an agenda. I guess if you have an agenda, and like, even just more practically, right? I don't have an awards ballot, at least as of recording. If I get one, then I'll blatantly take it. But I do kind of wonder, like. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. This is not. What? Yeah, this is. Yeah, I haven't had that. But that's okay. We work on it. We work on it. But I do kind of wonder. What are you guys doing? All right. We'll talk off air. But no, in all seriousness, I do kind of wonder if this continues to be, like, 14, 11, and 6 for Jessica's and she makes this amount of playmaking decisions, will there be some sort of splitting among the voters to where, instead of Paige just getting firmly a first-place conversation or whatever, does she kind of get internally docked because they feel like her and Jessica Shepard are kind of splitting duties on that front? I would probably disagree with that. I feel like this is very much great Jessica Shepard season. Paige is still the one that kind of sets the tone on both ends for them. But it's easy to see how one could land on that logic at the very least. And it's also just a testament to how good Jessica Shepard has been to even warrant having this conversation. Because I'm right there with you. I think her and Paige are just all-stars this year with what they've been able to do. It's funny because I think that if that were to happen, it would be, like, kind of an overthinking or overrating of value, which I don't want to even get into that conversation here because, like, I think what she does is so underrated. But we have seen sports writers especially kind of get into. that kind of habit of overthinking the little things. Like, we don't have to go full screen assist discourse with Jess Shep while still acknowledging that what she's doing is all-star worthy. But I do think, like, it probably tops out at, like, at this, right? Wow. Who's to say at this point? It does, yeah. You know, things can spin out of control very quickly. This, I guess, quickly on the Jessica Shepard front, because it's kind of made me wonder who else could do this with this kind of usage is kind of a general question that I've had. Because if you watch Jessica Shepard in Minnesota, like, my tweets are out there. I have been a Jessica Shepard fan for a very long time. Give me a big that can pass the basketball and will just bone crush you with screens and I'm just kind of in. And so, like, her having games in which she has five or six assists or eight assists doesn't surprise me. Her averaging six and her having this level of responsibility, like, it's very much, like, it's very much diet Alyssa Thomas in terms of, hey, you grab the ball, you just get to initiate a bunch. And so now I'm just kind of looking at some of these other bigs that can play make, and it's just like, okay, if your coach said you get to initiate 18 handoffs a game instead of your eight or nine, could you also average six assists? Is there going to be a coach that says actually, let's try to get as much like, if Alex Arama would have actually stuck with Haley Jones, for an example, like, does she have like a four and a half, five assist season in her? It's kind of like a general, like, thought process that I've had. I think the thing that gives Jess an advantage is that her rim pressure is just really difficult. And her ball handling and her ability to catch the ball in the post, and you can double her. She's still going to have control. She can dribble herself, like, into a better position. I think that her control under duress is just something that is a really high level skill. And I do imagine that we will see copy cats. But then we're also going to start to see that, like, not every player can do it. Yeah, right. I do have, I've won that I think she's not a big, but it is dovetails with my observation that I don't like how the Valkyries are using Gabby Williams at all. Okay. What's bothering you about it? Look, I just think that Gabby Williams is like a incredible jack-of-all-trades. Athletic player who can put a ton of pressure on the rim, and she's already playing alongside a bunch of players who are shooting threes. She's already playing alongside Veronica Burton, who is one of the best pick-and-roll pocket passers in the league. So I would say instead of getting a big to go up a position and do what Jessica Shepard is doing at the four, why don't we have Gabby Williams go down a position, have her, instead of running all of this ISO, have her cut more, have her be the pick-and-roll roller, utilize her, her athleticism. She's taking a career-low 12% of her shots at the rim. That is the opposite of how I envisioned her playing with Golden State, and maybe I was naive in that regard. I know that they take a lot of threes. I just didn't think it would be coming from everybody, right? You have to have somebody who can counterbalance that, and that's kind of what I saw with her in Golden State. That's kind of what I envisioned. Her shot distance from the rim is 16 feet, which is also a career high. It's way too far out. Now, I like that she's taking the three. I have no problem with her taking the three. But there's just so much pressure on her to be a primary creator, and that gets into some of Golden State's. Obviously, they have some personnel issues there, right? They're kind of. They're one of those teams that's sort of perfect position to say to a superstar at this free agency, like, hey, we have everything else. We just need you. But I do think that comes with. Why pigeonhole Gabby Williams into this when she can kind of be your. I'm not saying she's good. And I'm not saying you can replicate the playmaking ability that easily, but I think that you can replicate the rim pressure for a team that just honestly just doesn't get enough easy buckets. And it already has plenty of shooting. I think with the Gabby thing, because I hear the general complaints there, I think this is more a function of how teams feel about Golden State conceptually to where as good as Veronica Burton has been, yeah, we can still go under on you. We can still switch against you if necessary. And I think there's just kind of like a team, a league wide, like we can kind of switch or go under against this group. And I think with that, it kind of eliminates some of the cutting in the half court that you could potentially get to with her. It eliminates some of or at least mutes to volume on some of like the Gabby-esque screener stuff. In general, like I'm with you. Give me Veronica Burton, Gabby Williams, like an empty side or like 35 feet from the basket, let her slip, let her play make from there. but if teams are just like yeah we're fine ducking under and also switching on top of that it's just like where exactly how can you generate the consistent advantages and so like i wonder if this just a little bit of teams are just treating you this way so you can't get to the fun stuff that you may even want to get into and i think part of gabby wanting to come here is i think she did just want the ball in her hands more a little bit anyway yeah no that's valid and if that's what you need to do to like get her in the door i just think that you can put the ball in her hands and like more advantageous situations and what they're doing um and look maybe this is like something that will just grow in her game right but it's just not like what it's kind of like i don't like if you want to scale up you got to start somewhere um i guess um and even with like the pick and roll stuff i'm like well like you have a ton of shit like if you want to like you can switch those like and i guess like it's it is no you're right though like it is difficult to ask that someone who's like never been that type of player to like really master how to slip in those moments um which i think is something that like jess sheppard is absolutely a lead ad so maybe there's like a sliding scale right like you don't go full jess sheppard i just think that they could they could just get her the ball in positions that are a lot more advantageous um than what is going on right now i guess related to that can i ask you my valkyrie's question yeah that i had prep what normalizes with this group first the three-point shooting or the rim finishing i didn't three-point shooting what do you think i don't i hope it's the finishing because just as a recording as a team they're shooting over 38 from three that is the best mark in the w right now and i don't know if they are that but that is what they are right now they're converting 58.6 of their shots inside of three feet that is a virtual tie with the portland fire for the worst mark in the w and it has been such a weird bit with the valkyries this year where they drive a bunch and they just have not been able to finish shots at the rim to a high degree so far this year and again i think part of that is just like red early season randomness for one but also to the point where we are kind of okay with at least in the half court let's just keep this in front as best as we can like we don't see anyone on your roster that we want to consistently commit two players to to really open up the blender that y'all want to get into so much of their offense it feels like is based on we have to win these one-on-one matchups because that's the other that's the only way we're really going to draw if asia touches the ball she is seeing the crowd immediately right or they're trying our teams are trying to figure out a way to send that second body with caitlin the pick and roll with page there's an element of we're going to put two on you so you don't get comfortable i don't know if the valkyries have anyone on the roster right now as much as i respect bronca burton as much as i love gabby williams to where teams are like we have to commit an extra body by default and without that it's more of a playoff question than anything because obviously they've still been good this year but that is going to be the next step to them and i think to your earlier point i think that is when you finally get into i guess a little bit more creativity in terms of using the stars in particular because i think right now they haven't reached the scoring prowess or the shooting prowess to where teams feel like we have to treat you differently that's why i'm so excited for both of them really and i talked about this uh about veronica burton earlier this season the fact that they're willing to just take these threes off the bounce this year it feels like a pretty major development not because i don't know if they're willing to take these threes off the bounce this year but because i ultimately want them taking a bunch of threes off the bounce but okay let's take unders off the table if this becomes a situation to where your default pick and roll ran by veronica burton or gabby williams is we have to fight over the screen that goes a long way to forcing the rotations that you want and making the offense feel a little bit more fluid overall so i'm i'm intrigued by what happens here because i don't think they are as good of a three point shooting team as they are they're certainly willing to take them but in terms of efficiency i don't think they're first in terms of the rim finishing i don't think they're darn near last they're somewhere in the middle and i'm curious to see what happens first and what that does for how defenses treat them yeah i mean to your larger point on the personnel and like what they have and they don't have this is part of the reason like i've just been kind of wanting them to unlock janelle salon a little bit more too like she's the one player on this team that i think like can get any shot whenever she wants it and look it's the best thing about her it's the worst thing about her at the same time but like she's a very young player um who i just want to like put in more of those situations and i think that's a good thing about her and i think that's a good thing about um i'm gonna rattle through two quick ones here um one of them because like i think you know talked about it enough just as like a basketball community but i just like stewie just needs to abandon the three um three and a half attempts in the last five games 17 percent um she's doing so many other things so well but it's just completely dragging down her efficiency um and just with the way that you can use her um and the fact that you know new york's half court offense is already so good like it's just such an unnecessary appendage to what is kind of like an incredible season so far so um that i can just kind of do with less of i guess um and then what was the other one i wanted to go through quick i forget what's your what's your next hey listen uh i guess while we're on the liberty like one the brianna stewart three-point thing does just make me sad and like this is now four straight years in which the three-point percentage is going to be like it's going to be like it's going to be she's under 20 on the year at this point and i don't know like i've kind of had the straight thought it's more again more of a playoff question can teams afford to put their fives on stewie in the half court is a question that's starting to creep further from the back of my brain to like the middle of it uh because she's so good at everything like i don't think that's something you want to do with like high volume just because she can create her own shot get flowing to a bunch of stuff but if the three-point shot is going to be what it is does she just become more of a so that part is interesting the the actual liberty thought that i wanted to get into that is also kind of like a general league thing i guess it's like a two-parter one i love this liberty zone i love the way that they run zone not just that they do it but the way that they press into it some of the triggers uh within it it is a blast to watch and obviously very difficult for offenses to deal with and then my broader league question is like why are they the only team running zone right now like it makes sort of a bad zone it's like it makes sense in a general like truncated off season free agency period was weird like teams are still very much trying to get into like their basic installs and trying to establish their base so like it makes sense that zone volume is down across the league overall it is just incredibly funny that the liberty as they also had some major roster changes have a new head coach in tow they've dealt with a whole bunch of injuries and absences to start the year on top of that this being the team willing to do it it's kind of funny to me like i thought if this was going to be a year that where maybe one or two teams run zone early before everyone else feels comfortable doing it i would have felt like it would have been the aces because becky has just been running different variations of zone since she's been there and like the links because cheryl reeve just has that kind of know-how etc can i give you a stat on this on the front yes please uh per second spectrum the new york liberty have logged 108 possessions of zone so far as a recording the rest of the league combined has 31 wow that is not that is staggering that's start to be and so that that is just odd now 0.87 0.78 points for possession on those trips for the new york liberty again offenses not having a good time at all when the liberty go to the phoenix mercury in particular did not have a good time dealing with the zone and also hey we're just going to ramp up our full court pressure and our full court traps and let's see if you can get the ball across half court that first mercury matchup was just incredibly rude but no shout out to krista marco in that zone when you have that many six three six two to six four players on the roster it makes sense like let's just wrap this up chew up space and also guard areas like that part's been fun so i want to sprinkle that in for the new york liberty who just on a win streak right now by the way a little bit of early season angst for them seems to be turning it around well i think i i do think like like yes chris marco is somebody who's brought in for his his tactical know-how but i also think that there is like sort of a question of like why are is it so easy to target our stars when we have all of this great defensive personnel on the team so i imagine that this is something that he's probably been thinking about for a while and not to get to nba here i think that he's coming from a golden state warriors offense that has tried to figure out the question of how how do we best protect steph curry for the last 10 years now and i think the liberty have a lot of the same questions and as much as you know sabrina unesco is somebody who's absolutely improved so yeah defense she's uh she's she's one of those players and right now they also have like they kind of have a very interesting stand-in even as a as they wait to see like what this sabrina injury situation is and pauline asked sta who is somebody who you absolutely want to keep on the court on the offensive end but certainly needs a lot of help on the defensive end to stay on so it's like it's it's and i wish more teams did that like i almost feel like i can get like this this can tell to my uh next observation um just on like the indiana fever like i just i just feel like they need a they need a tactical exorcism at this point like i think on the offensive end they need to decide who they are because when caitlin's in the game they're like this pick and roll heavy team and caitlin is strangely also like caitlin is also running a ton of pick and roll this year i know there's a lot of like run more pick and roll with her she is running more pick and roll than anybody in the league not named olivia miles carla late or courtney williams um she's struggling and pick and roll as a scorer this year and i think there's a level to which step white is actually right that it's become a little bit more of a predictable action um however i don't really feel like they bake enough into it and just thinking about what steph sophie cunningham was saying about how they had to pull back on a lot of their coverages i almost just wonder if as a team they're just generally trying to do a little bit too much like i think that it's like they play through caitlyn and then they play through kelsey and and she does a lot of pick and roll stuff too but she does it in a different way um and then they kind of just turn into like a a team that plays through their bigs whenever um it's not going to be one of them featured and neither of those things have really like fully coalesced this season and maybe look we get to like 30 games into the season and they're one of the only teams that has like a fully versatile attack um that can withstand a lot of different defensive coverages so i could be wrong about this but right now it just feels like they just don't really have a lot of coverages and they just don't have a lot of coverages and they just don't have a lot of coverages and they just don't have a lot of coverages have an identity as far as like what they want to do um on the offensive end um and then on the defensive end it's sort of just like i like i want i want to see some of that similar sort of creativity as far as like how do we stop our best player from being targeted perpetually um and kind of like just that being like the like like multiple games with like four fouls um dealing with the foul trouble overall like the way that that impacted the the finish of that liberty game like it was just so stark the difference between i know caitlin complained about the foul aspect but i think that there was like a scheme aspect of it too it was so different like the level at which new york which is like kind of simplified their offense and become sort of like a we're just gonna find the advantage and beat you um versus like the fact that like the the fever who i think have similar offensive talent across the board just weren't able to do that on the other end ulcerative colitis and crohn's disease symptoms don't pause for the moments that matter that's why understanding your treatment options matters discover what's possible with trimphia guselka map trimphia is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis serious allergic reactions increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them and liver problems may occur before treatment get checked for infections and tuberculosis tell your doctor if you have an infection flu-like symptoms or need a vaccine talk to your doctor and explore what's possible or call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more about trimphia and visit trimphiaradio.com oh boy we have reached the indiana fever portion of the program uh in my notes on the fever i have and i quote i'm so exhausted by how this team has talked about incidents and so you didn't do anything wrong to be completely clear but i'm glad we got here this fever team is very obviously trying to work through some things and re-implement caitlin clark into the flow after they were a game away from making the w finals and i think when you factor in some of the maintenance that's happening with caitlin if you want to dub that as strategic as a strategic plan whatever you want to do with all of all of that all of the whole deer but whatever you want to dub it there's obviously a has not been healthy for pretty much any of this season which i think is a very underrated part of some of the identity crisis on both ends of the floor because if you look at what the fever did last year talk a little bit about their off-office killed physicality early in the pod but structurally they were a team that wanted to have their bigs at the level they have dialed that back quite a bit this year they have ramped up the switching and i think part of that is well we don't want right now until she feels 100 right some of that is we want to bake in more scheme versatility so by the time we get to the playoffs we can press different buttons depending on who our opponent is i think that's what you should spend the early portion of the season doing and to your point like it has felt like it's been in flux i think the switching was fine until it wasn't we got to the end of that second valkyries matchup and we got to the portland fire game and both of those teams okay well fine we're just going to go at caitlin in a way that she has not been targeted pretty much her entire w weird to this point with that volume anyway and then the fever adjusts you get to the dream games like all right well then fine caitlin we want you to duck under whether it's alia boston my shines alan whoever the big is going to be we actually want you to show and recover now okay this is fine until it wasn't because you are inherently putting two on the ball and so for me it has just been interesting watching the fever press different buttons and get more comfortable with counters that they feel like they're going to need the conversation has felt more like malpractice is happening and i'm just like that feels very aggressive like there are basketball reasons for all of this stuff even going to the offensive end now toss it to you even to the offensive end like ideally we want to be a team that can get good pick and roll stuff out of caitlin they can get good hub work out of alia boston they can get good off ball work from kelsey mitchell blend those three together in certain actions and we flow from there because caitlin's been in the game for a long time and she's been in the game for a long time and she's been in and out alia boston has also been in and out the same chemistry hasn't been built up and so they're trying to work through that caitlin is still running plenty pick and roll i don't think stephanie white and company want this to be caitlin runs 50 60 i don't think they want her to have the olivia miles diet or the carla late diet where you you are just running pick and roll this is what it's going to do it will be fruitful in the regular season but i don't think they want to run into the postseason where teams are like okay this is what they want to do this is how we oh snap now we have to go to counters we don't feel comfortable doing anything else they are using the regular season to build more counters so we can ramp up the caitlin pick and roll stuff when we feel we need to we can ramp up the alia boston stuff when we feel we need to we can ramp we can ramp up kelsey mitchell when we feel we need to and i just need people to collectively kind of calm down about them working through some of these growing pains i think conceptually that is that's what you want it to be you are a game away from the finals you should not be building a system this should be about establishing your counters that's a great point that's a great point um i will say yes so the the general sense of like everything around caitlin just being a discourse hurricane has become difficult it doesn't have to be that no it doesn't it doesn't and i agree that these are basketball problems i think that they've become very clear about that to the point where they are actually starting to um push back against the narrative in a way that i just haven't seen from caitlin before because i think she is also starting to get annoyed by this um step white is clearly annoyed by it by it as well um i think that they do have i i think they have some interesting challenges right i think that um like with caitlin right like she hit the game winner some mystics and she's at a point this season and i think that maybe this shifts when like as she step white alluded to you know this is great for her to get her confidence back right now the version of caitlin that we have and that we've largely had through the course of you know her wnba career is that like if you tell me the types of shots that she got i can tell you like what her percentages were you know like it's just really predictable at this point like she's an amazing catch and she's shooting 25 this season she is shooting 70 on transition threes she is taking more assisted shots this season um she's taking more threes off of pick and rolls than any player in the league and she's shooting 17 from three on pick and rolls which given how important that has been to her diet and sort of starting to see um like her not go to the rim as much i kind of have you know it's something that you got to kind of see and i think that's a good thing about caitlin kind of wonder about like how much can they rely on and and and to a degree that means like it kind of gets what you're saying like you don't want to rely on pick and roll with her when she's still sort of like working herself back into her full form especially when alia boston is doing some of the same thing as well and i also wonder if some of like the i don't want to spam pick and roll stuff is actually coming from her because of the wear and tear that has on your body right like she's playing longer shifts now and sometimes at the end of those shifts she's kind of like yeah you got it you know like she she wants kelsey mitchell um to take some of those shots so i do think that some of that stuff yeah you're absolutely right um there is a lay in wait like there is a sort of like we don't need to ring the alarm bells um at the same time like i just i find myself struggling i think they overcomplicate things i think you can bake encounters and do it in a way that is less complicated when you have the talent on the team that you have um i think that also i think like part of it is mo billings and natasha howard are just completely different players and i think that we just haven't talked about that enough when we talk about they miss her quite a bit well they miss her a lot they they miss her a lot um but i just i i feel like the you should be able to find a little bit more cohesion in your actions when. caitlin clark and kelsey mitchell are both great pick and roll players and alia boston is a great pick and roll ball handler i think that you can run more handoffs as well i think that there are just ways to get them are collectively more involved and i think the problem for me is kelsey mitchell and caitlin clark sometimes when they're on the court together feel like they're playing a different game and i don't think that they used to have that problem and maybe it is just them repping it out and like getting you know finding that cohesion again um but it's almost like they're trying to have this like get caitlin off the ball offense which i think you have to just given like what the types of shots that she is good at versus like her struggles as an off the dribble shooter in the wnba while at the same time like you have a bunch of players who are really you know i think i think as i talk through it like it is it is just that i think like it's what you said like it's them trying to figure out how to integrate her because kelsey mitchell got very used to having to figure having to go out and get it on her own uh mo billings is has never really been part of an offense like this like i think that um there have been many different plays like you see it from sophie sometimes too where um caitlin or kelsey they're getting denied very heavily and like after that first ball denial whoever has the ball sort of like gives up on trying to find them whereas like if you look at a team like dallas for example they do not give up on trying to find page or az like they'll just run that action back olivia miles will just like kind of like oh there's still five seconds left on the shot clock i think that they have some players that like five six seven seven uh seconds left on the shot clock they start to panic and they and they start to want to like just figure out how to get a shot up and maybe and and these are all like very repable problems i almost look at it as like a i wonder how you feel about this but they kind of remind me a little bit of like the indiana pacers the year that they went to the finals and like the sort of way that rick carlisle um started to like learn to stop worrying and let ty halliburton do his thing and sort of like it changed the way that he even thinks about basketball um in a way where uh ty also had to give back some too and realize that like defense was like a big part of how they were going to get there i think i'm trying to think of what the nba comp to this would be for me i don't i get the pacer parallel and it would certainly make a lot more sense just to keep it indiana basketball but like it's kind of felt this gives me kind of seeds of like the dame integration in milwaukee when he first got there hate that like and i say that only through the lens of we are trying to add this big piece back and like it is working but it's not fluid yet but we feel like it'll ultimately get there like i have more faith in the the fever version to be very clear but like that it's kind of seeds of that like the talent is clear the usage makes sense you understand why they're trying to blend in a certain way but it feels kind of wonky and you understand the cries of like well why don't you just do this run action since we've seen them do it before it's like yes but also we kind of need more behind that or teams are just going to scheme that out in the playoffs you don't want to have that problem perk up and so like i that's where like i've watched the fever and like i think it is fair to like criticize some of the scheme decisions things like that for me it's just like i don't i haven't gotten to malpractice level because like all of these oh no absolutely no i'm not like that's just not the world yeah not even yeah not including you in this to be clear but it's just more like at least understand the the echo the sentiments of the great steve jones jr at least understand what the attempt is like you don't have to like it but understand what the logic is behind it because you understand the logic behind it even if you don't like it you have a smarter way of talking about why you don't like it versus huh pick and roll is down they must hate caitlyn like well no yeah and it's by the way it's not it's also just not down she's not really killing it as a pick and roll creator this year i will say quickly on the caitlyn pick and roll front because i was pulling up some of the second spectrum stuff this is the highest rate of drop coverage that she's seen in her young career seeing two on the ball or getting blitz on nearly 11 of her pick and rolls so far this year is at 1.8 i i feel like that is the part that probably needs to be discussed more about they're taking away the pass it's it's like well fine we don't need to put two on the ball if you're going to score like this and so like that's a interesting you know chicken or the egg to kind of follow with this season our team's treating her different like does she have to make more of these threes to bring two on the table to unlock the short roll of leah boston stuff that unlocks overall flow or does she need to just cut that shot and try to find other avenues to generate advantages in pick and roll and not cut it out completely to be clear but like lower the volume on the off the dribble three because like you've cited the percentages early on i don't think she is that but like that number is untenable to be clear and so like i wonder what happens first does the volume cut down and we see more of the deeper drives we see more of the pocket passes or just more of the corner skips or does she start making those shots those big start creeping back up and now we're back in the flow again and i think in light of where she is right now as an off the dribble shooter and how teams have kind of dialed back to pressure one this isn't new because i wrote about this last season as caleb's deal with all these injuries because the switch rate doubled in pick and roll against her last year and so now the next evolution has been well the switching is down but the blitzing has dropped even more dramatically you are just kind of seeing traditional coverage right now she is good enough to beat it but conceptually it makes sense for stephanie white to kind of see that see where caitlyn is right now trying to manage her through his regular season like okay it probably makes sense for us to find other avenues to get her shots get her looks and to make this offense flow because ideally if we have that we can put pressure on defenses and then when caitlyn is more of herself as an off the dribble shooter we have everything at our disposal at that point and so i'm curious to see like how that part works out i wonder i'm wondering if you're going to i'm wondering i'm wondering also if the lack of blitzing is also just a level of we don't want to let alia boston play four on three against us we know that's a losing battle every single time yeah um i think a lot of it is shot selection honestly like i imagine teams are probably going to drop because they're like we would rather you take one of these like multi-dribble early clock threes because you have the confidence to think that you can make it while you're at a point right now where you're not making that shot versus actually you running like caitlyn's much more dangerous as a passer than she is as anything else so wanting to sort of take that away and sort of like just get her to take a low efficiency shot um that makes a lot of sense from a defensive standpoint she probably wants to try to get continue to get to the rim at the rate that she was way earlier in the season as well like that probably helps out a ton and opens up that pass a little bit more as well but to your point yes all of this is very much um in flux and they're you know like they're kind of they're a difficult team to judge right now like caitlyn just hit that game winner maybe that just activates her and like we just never even need to have this conversation again but um i think they're gonna be fine oh they're gonna be fine yeah i think i think so too i've kind of like it's i here's my thing i think that they're like they're gonna be fine in the sense that like i don't think this is a catastrophic season by any way but i think they're gonna be fine in the sense that like i don't think this is a catastrophic season by any means i also still have like major like issues with their front court but they're like their depth beyond alia boston i think the the yeah we'll see what happens with like what with mo i'm gonna give her time because it does kind of take time for like bigs to figure out the indiana system but um kk every shift is a different story dantas honestly looks pretty cooked like i think like they have even even if they maxed out the indiana system i think they're gonna be fine in the sense that i just still will have like questions about about them uh but let's move on let's uh let's we've i'm honestly like really over indexed on fever talk in general um at this point it's part of the reason it was like you know we hit an hour before we brought it up but um what's what's next on your list uh let's move to connecticut very quickly i have been in a headlock with this diamond miller season very nikai is coded so i apologize and i like i hit it on i hit it at this a little bit on the dunker spot but like one it is kind of stumped from her perspective that she just has not been healthy early on in her career and that she has bounced around already and there is this baseline level of athleticism and force that can be weaponized to both ends of the floor but like the actual court processing and the processing speed hasn't quite got there and like from an point i've been trying to figure out how much of that is inherent to her and how much of this is she just hasn't gotten to play a bunch because she's been hurt and so like i was mildly excited for her going to connecticut because i felt like she was just going to have time to just play and get those live reps and now i can get up and for me i can get a firmer answer on like where she is in terms of processing things and so offensively it has been an adventure to say the least like she has not been efficient at all but like then you see some of these drives and it's just like well it's there and you see some of the random screens and some of the dives off of them it's like okay some of this is there can this be reformed and can this be fine maybe not this year but just moving forward i'm intrigued i flipped to the defensive end and rashid mezzion has had her defending point guards a lot this year honestly one of the more underrated scheme things from connecticut like they are going to put length on your point guard diamond miller you have a turn nell and gloma you have a turn kennedy burke you have a turn like they have not been a good defense this year but i like some of the concepts and some of the attempts they made on that end but like i watched diamond defensively and like she's bothered some point guards at times this year and again she does just have this athletic profile of someone that can be a multi-positional defender but then i watch her off the ball sometimes it's like well i kind of need you to execute your responsibilities more consistently and so it's just i'm just in a weird spot because i kind of i want her to figure it out yeah and like it's not like this connecticut context is an easy one for her to figure it out within because of all the flux and just in general talent level on top of that so that part has been weird i don't know i'm just just kind of intrigued by the diamond miller season because like i want her to find a niche in the league i agree um i almost like i just i want her to just like flush out a bunch of reps with connecticut i think that there has been a like i think with a player like her you know you go through a couple consistent years of like just not getting to play um that there is a level of catching up that you have to do and there's also just a level of like i think a lot of connecticut players actually have this issue and this is like as much as i like i respect that rashid mezzion has like a very specific way that he's going to hold players accountable and if you don't um defend you're not going to play i think everybody on that team is sort of like is is almost treating this season like an audition and like every shot i take might be my last shot as well so like some of what he wants him to do um the way that he's approaching it is kind of like a little bit more of a like a little bit more of a like a little bit more of a like antithetical to actually getting them to do it a lot of it is just sort of like pressuring them to like play what how he wants them to play um and i think that she's kind of in her head honestly and that i don't think you get out of that without to your point they just getting the consistent reps i'm just very much in a holding pattern with her so i guess we'll see i guess on the screening point like it's been more popping than rolling honestly but like i think she does have the potential to kind of duck in against some of the smaller guards that she's facing yeah like we've seen that at times out even outside the genetic context just in general she has that to get a random duck in so i don't like there are seeds there but i'm intrigued uh other than that very glad my little con is back yes this has been a very fun anisa morrow season i hope britney grinder is okay like i she's just been on the injury report for like 90 of the year and i haven't loved that it's like what is going on with the rib that part's been weird like they have very much needed her to kind of be like she's just been on the injury report for like 90 of the year and i the security blanket within their half court offense so you don't have point sanaya and charlize lego walker trying to figure things out and diamond trying to figure things out and anisa having to create off the bounce all the time and everyone's just a little bit out of place there this is why we said we need you and boy did that absolutely absolutely i mean i feel like i feel like she's gonna help reorder a lot of what is happening there i think she already has but yeah i agree they're a very difficult team to evaluate like individual players on like it's been very confusing even like trying to think about the anisa morrow season as well like it's like sort of like you look at the defensive numbers but then you think about the things that she's been asked to do on on defense and like the personnel that she's been asked to pick up and you're like i don't know how much i can really judge you for any of that like with sanaya it's sort of the same thing it's like okay the efficiency is down but we're asking you to play point guard and like you're kind of you're not really getting to cut and like you're not really and and like get out in transition in the way that like we kind of need you to to help you be productive it's it's a it's a weird it's a really weird season and in connecticut um i almost feel like rashid's kind of yoloing it too like i don't know if he thinks he's gonna be in houston so he's like i'm just gonna do this exactly however i want to do it um get with a program or not um i have a quick one um and we're recording this before um the sky game before angel reese's return um to chicago uh yes as of now the mystics would still be able to get a pick swap out of chicago that's the whole observation that's the whole shit oh dear uh chicago outside of sydney taylor has made me very happy when she's gone on like her scoring binges this year but i have some fun on isha cool volley moments too like i oh i can get i can get down with like the defensive moments there we're aligned we're aligned it just it's things that the sky have once again made offseason splashes and it's like oh well cool we you had them for a game or two you do not have them anymore and like i didn't anticipate the rakia injury of course forcing them down the road like to this degree because obviously she was tasked with a lot of scoring for them but more than that they moved her around the board it was very clear they were trying to build things out around her offensive versatility and like trying to feel that has been a challenge and i think in spurts when they're able to play out of their defense like the transition can mask a lot of it or just some of the early offense floats where you get to some of the camilla rem runs or some of the early slips for her to get downhill when they're having to play just flat out half court offense right now it's a mix of unders and switches the screening has been team-wide i have not really loved the screening and so when you're already seeing when defenses are already like we're fine going under or switching against you and then you also aren't creating advantages with your screening on or off the ball it just turns into like a lot of late clock shot creation that they just kind of have to be better about that stuff like there's some schematic tweaks that i like to see to make life a little bit easier for them but more than anything like this is just a team that has to do the little things with where they are personnel wise and if they don't do that the offense is going to look rough and so i know like a post-game pressure is making the waves uh for chicago from this week but like overall i just want to see more purpose more screening more pace they got to find some stuff and i think ultimately they just they have to re-establish their defense because that's what set the table for them early on this year being able to pressure being able to disrupt teams being able to force turnovers and i think it made it easier for them to then find the offense in pockets from there they have to solely create the defense and they have to find the defense and they have to do it against half half court defenses at this point and like they're just not equipped to consistently do so right now no they're not they have the second worst half court offense in the league right now that'll do yeah um it's interesting and this will like my second like observation on chicago um the real one is maybe skylar is everything that they need you know like maybe this is an early moment of truth and look it's obviously a very um interesting tension right like and we kind of thought that it would be as soon as um she was signed there like a front office that doesn't always do well with like constructive criticism um with a player who has no no problem giving it um but i think everything you said is right i think that this came on the game of the heels of and i want to give a little bit of credit here because like you lose for kia then like gabby goes out and azari is coming back from an injury and that doesn't set you up for defensive success around camilla cardoso who early in the season was giving a much better effort to defensively than what we're seeing right now um which is why i wonder if skylar is not exactly what they need like if if if there's a way that she can keep this team accountable while also like being like like keeping camilla like engaged at the same time like that might be exactly like this sort of recipe there to like get them back on track because there's a version of this where like you know camilla is giving full effort azari continues to just like get into like i don't want to judge anything she's doing defensive and right now like she's there's there's just like a ton of stuff there so like i'm kind of in wait and see but it's also just like as far as like the long term of it all like that's that's never felt great but i do wonder if like you know having skylar going to a press conference and just say like that everybody needs to be more mature like across the board is not the dose of medicine that like maybe this is finally the moment that like they they take it because like at this point what are what are the other options you have yeah you don't want this to become another tailspin season but like i think this is a locker room that is equipped to deal with that kind of force from skylar i don't think they bring her in and i don't think skylar agrees to come if she didn't anticipate like hey maybe i need to be the vocal leader in this yeah so like that could be what they want so it was one of the entire point yeah yeah it was one of those things that you know felt loud in the moment but zooming out like i don't see it like a red flag or anything like that like this felt like okay we have been on it is not us we need to turn we need to turn this around i'll be the one to say something come follow my lead so that's where i'm excited to see what they look like tonight whether they win or not just are is the effort going to be better is the execution is the tempo and the purpose going to be better yeah i think it will be so exactly uh do you have anything left i think i might be done uh just like some random quick hitters for me um i have loved this kiki rice season just the tempo rookies in general have just been a lot of fun for me and i oh man the kiki rice drives kiki what felt like shooting 80 from three to start the year that's obviously cooled off some but she just seems to get it in a way that a lot of rookie guards just do not and it certainly helps having britney sykes and marina mabry in tow to where okay i don't have to run everything i can just kind of fill gaps or at least get them in their spots early on and let them cook but i i've loved what she's looked like so far this year in toronto she's going to make an all-rookie team at this pace so absolutely so certainly want to sprinkle that one in trying to think is there anything else um trying to think is there a team that we haven't like hit for real actually i'll pose can i pose a mixed this question to you since you already brought like the pig situation yeah how do you kind of balance them letting their young players rock with this point guard situation that is likely making life a lot more difficult for their like top tier prospect what do you do like you i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know do you go get somebody if you can like i mean i it's like it's honestly we're at this point where like i feel like flores is kind of gonna take george's job pretty soon and maybe that's like the solution there um i don't necessarily think that they mind losing these games um it's not the most fun um i here's my thing i want to i want to turn back the dial a little bit on the notion of they don't have enough veterans and turn up the dial on maybe did they screw up the 2027 draft oh i'm intrigued go on well um and look this is a draft that i liked at the time and it's very early and it's actually i i had this on my list and i i took it off because i felt like i don't want to make these judgments too early so i'm going to say it with the caveat that i'm going to it is very early for all of these players um i do not see how shakira austin and lauren betts exist on a court together in the long or short term um i just don't know how that works and i don't know that there's like i don't see a develop like a real developmental solution coming up to that like coming up very soon i feel like lauren betts kind of just like i just want to give her a pass for the year she just won a national title the physicality of the wnba coming in as a center and like she kind of looks exhausted at times offseason the weight room yada yada yada come back here too we'll figure like let's see what it actually looks like okay um cody another player that i was like pretty optimistic about i feel like some of the processing stuff has just been like difficult um and it's probably just not a real point guard and is having to play that role uh just given like a lot of time and a lot of time and a lot of time and a lot of time the holes that they have um and look like it's ultimately one of those things where we just don't know anything about this draft yet but i think that like i was willing to give it a shot just like looking at like like just figuring out what the vision was in early season i was like okay the spacing's actually not that bad um that has changed um they amore is just really struggling and i'm kind of just wondering if they overthought it with like trying to go with a toughness route and like over indexed on we're getting punked and what you really just needed was to get some shooters in the door yeah that that was my concern with the draft and i think i said it on the pod following the draft where it felt kind of like that houston rockets draft where they i think they had like three or four first rounders or they just had a lot of players and i was like individually like i like all these prospects them in the same draft class is where i'm just kind of like what is the overall plan to get all of them to hit type b and so it would have been nice if they had some more shooting in the room to kind of mix in i'm not super concerned with the lauren betts portion of it yet especially since to your point like she has to adjust to that physicality i don't think i think she's ultimately going to get there to be clear but like that's going to take some time shakira's been very good kiki's been very good so like i don't mind kind of slow playing it in year one but with everyone else it's kind of like you need you need to be able to adjust to that physicality and i think that's going to take some time someone aside so you need someone beside you to be much better to make life easier for you and i don't know if that exists for the other right rookies and like that's where i'm just kind of like ah that's why i wanted to pose the question to you because to your point i don't think they mind being low understanding considering they can still get a high pick or whatever but you do have good young talent on your roster and you do want them to get better and i think there is a thin line between you know like sonja getting some point guard reps this year it's like okay she's not going to be that but these reps may help down the line type beat versus you have to play 37 to 40 games of a role that you are not equipped to do and you may potentially develop some bad habits or team's going to beat on you in a certain area and now you have a longer road so just kind of curious to see like how uh sydney johnson's kind of balancing that out and i just wanted to kind of get a temperature check with you on the mystics front yeah i'm still waiting you know i think i think it's something i probably wouldn't have brought up um i think it's something i would probably wouldn't have brought up but you asked a really good question so hey what can i do um but yeah it's fun league fun league it's a fun league it's a fun league it's very fun league um the guys thank you so much this was almost two hours um which is insane however it's the only pod of the week because i will be off after this so maybe if maybe fine maybe maybe maybe the time to take the shot there we go see i am glad that i could be the send-off pod guest we love that uh i will quickly say since i don't think we said anything about the seattle storm or at least not in depth i mixed feelings on the flage johnson season so far she has been like better defensively than i thought and while i've enjoyed the drives at times this year like some of the process and stuff has been kind of wonky for me but like i think this is also just a testament to the fact that i'm not going to be a defensive player but i think this is a testament to defenses kind of gearing up for what she does and how she wants to attack and how she wants to finish so i'm excited i know she's a hard worker i'm excited to see like what counter she develops yeah um i agree with you completely much better defensively than i thought she would be um i like her up and out shots some of the it's fine the processing can be an issue the process itself is something that i'm fine with that team also just doesn't have a point guard and she's as much as like we talk about the field she's like one of the only players that i feel like is like consistently finding our or tom um for like a pocket pass as well um and that just shouldn't ever be the case um i think you know seattle is just kind of a fun house right now right like you got the twin towers and um they're both like taking their cracks at asia and and you know they're living and they're learning that's that's what that's what seattle is doing right now like just keep showing up to work you know i am so excited that's like they're number two on the washington mystics list of like get a point guard um and and we'll and we'll talk shout out jade melvin and the drive shout out zaya cook who just seems much happier and much much more comfortable i should say get a pass first point guard and we'll talk because there's definitely there's some good scoring ability in there yeah a table setter would certainly be needed also just quick salute to lexi brown hope everything's okay yeah absolutely so make sure i get that in aside from that i think we hit all 15 in some capacity damn yeah i think we did i think we did even seattle was one i was just gonna wait on just to get more get more all on and don but definitely get to get a check-in um nikai is thank you so much for hopping on and doing this marathon podcast with me oh this is just a this is old school dunker spot right here we just chop it up we got some we got some three-hour pods in the archive well this is this is home for me yeah i appreciate you love that appreciate you um listen to the dunker spot you guys have been doing a great job covering the wnba as well as the nba finals so i know it's a very busy time for you so i do appreciate you um making the time um it's always fun to hear from you um i'm sure our audience will love it the guys thank you so much stefan anderson thank you for producing and i'll see you in the next one bye and we will talk to you guys next week this episode is brought to you by whole foods market follow us here and whole foods market has everything you need 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