88. The 15-Minute Company Research Method That Lands You the Customer Success Job with Olivia Kot

You are listening to the customer success career coach. Most job seekers are researching companies completely wrong. You're either spending hours diving into irrelevant information. That's a huge waste of your time, or you're getting stumped by basic company questions in your interviews. Well, in this episode, our director of customer success, Olivia is going to reveal how to research any company in under 15 minutes. And she's also going to talk about how one client used G2 reviews to negotiate a higher-base salary. So stay tuned. What if the only thing standing between you and your next big career milestone is just a strategy you haven't heard yet? I'm Carly Aigar, customer success veteran, award-winning career coach, and you're go-to for getting hired and promoted in customer success. Whether you're breaking into the field or ready to level up into leadership, this podcast is your shortcut to real career growth. Every episode is packed with practical takeaways, data-backed strategies, and zero fluff advice that actually works. So you can start making moves towards your goals immediately. If you're ready to take control of your career, well then you're in the right place. Welcome to the customer success career coach podcast. Welcome back to the customer success career coach. I'm very excited to dive into today's episode with Olivia. For those that don't already know, Olivia is our director of customer success at Carly Aigar training. And truly has been with us since the beginning. She has spent thousands of hours coaching customer success job seekers, which means she's seen every possible job search challenge and knows exactly what separates the candidates who land offers from those who don't. If you already know Olivia, then you already know what treat today's episode will be. And if you don't yet know her, you're about to find out why our clients absolutely love her. Without further ado, let's learn from Olivia on how to do company research in a way that is both productive and efficient for our job searches. Olivia, you wanted to come on the podcast, specifically to talk about company research. And even more specifically, the types of company research you should be doing in your job search. Do you want to just talk about why you want to come on the podcast to talk about this specifically? So I get this question a lot, like how much company research should I be doing? And it kind of presents itself in a number of ways, which I think can be big blockers in your job search. And they're quick and easy things that you can do to make it less of a blocker. So I just want to quickly identify how you would know if you're being blocked by company research. If you're spending hours doing your company research before an interview or before you decide to apply to a job, you're probably being a little bit blocked and we can go about this in a different way. Another way to know if it's a little bit of a blocker, maybe you're not doing enough company research as if you get questions in the interview process about the company that just like drop you. Most interviewers don't expect you to be a company expert or a product expert, but they want to see that you've done a little bit of research just like you would before a QBR with a client. So that's primarily why I wanted to come on and talk about this because it's such an important topic to unblock yourself but also to position yourself as a stronger candidate. And I'm so glad you wanted to talk about this because this is also something that I talk to a lot of job seekers about when they're thinking about if they need to invest in coaching, those are oftentimes the conversations I'm having. And lots of times we end up in a rabbit hole where we're talking about like, "Okay, well, what are you spending your time on? What things are you doing? What are you not doing?" Trying to diagnose like why isn't their job search working for them? Yeah. And I would say 9.9 times out of 10, they are being really inefficient in the time leading up to the interview. So they are spending way too much time researching. So I'm excited to hear your thoughts on like how to not spend too much time researching because I think that's an easy rabbit hole to fall down. And the other thing too is interviewers want to know that you're doing your homework. So there is this fine balance between like you said, doing too much and doing too little. So you obviously spend a lot of time thinking about this, talking about it with job seekers, but you also spend a lot of time analyzing the job search and fundamentally like what is working, what is not working. So besides the obvious things like knowing what a company's mission is, why do you see company research being a critical part of the job search? The big one that sticks out to me at least is that you should be able to demonstrate your customer success skills in your job search. And so by that I mean, as a CSM, you're never going to, or I shouldn't say you're never going to, you shouldn't go into a meeting with a client completely lost, unaware of what they do, how they're performing, who their stakeholders are. And you want to demonstrate that you have that know-how and that knowledge in your job search. So when you go to an interview, you can speak to the company a little bit more effectively and instill that confidence that you would do the same with a customer. So really demonstrating that CS skill set of just company research. That's a big one, but there's also more self-serving reasons that company research is really impactful. So ensuring good fit is probably the biggest one. You don't want to get to an organization that you maybe did 15 minutes of research on before your interview and then you get to your first day and realize, "I hate this." You save yourself from the time in the long run. So ensuring good fit, making sure there's mission and vision alignment, making sure that the actual role is what you would like it to be because customer success looks different in every company. So part of company research is learning what their customer success philosophy is. Helps you avoid a future job search because if you're unhappy or maybe there's not performing super well or they've got a warn notice out, maybe there's a playoff in the future. More or less it just helps you avoid surprises, reduce the learning curve, and one of my favorite things a company research can tell you is a little bit more about the variable comp and what your overall compensation is going to look like too. And there are some little tips and tricks for that too, but nobody works for free. And so you want to make sure you want that insight. Yeah, those are all really good reasons. I feel like we could end the podcast here and that would be valuable enough. I just had this light bulb moment as you were going through this. So we talked about the problem for a lot of people in the job search. Is there either spending way too much time researching companies to an extent where it's no longer serving them? It's just you've done too much. This is now hurting you. Yeah. Or they're not doing enough. And you know, we could argue that the reasons why that is is like maybe they've never learned how to do research properly, which I'm sure is a big part of this. But I think at the core of that problem is really like oftentimes we sit down as job seekers to research a company and we don't have an intention behind it. We don't have a plan. It's not like, oh, I'm doing this research for these specific reasons. So you just gave us be able to demonstrate your CS skills and be able to assess whether or not this is going to be a good fit for you. And boom, you're done. That's enough. Exactly. I think so often I find folks going in without that intention and they'll end up spending hours going through like the admin academy videos for a SaaS product, which is just not serving it for an interview or they spend hours and hours going through the product announcements from 2023 to 2024. And it's just not the information that you need. You want to focus on the information that you need. Yeah. Okay. So if someone has, let's say, 15 minutes to research a company before an interview. And I know some people are probably hearing 15 minutes right now going, oh my god, I'm panicking. There's no way that's enough time. If you're talking to a client and for some reason they only have those 15 minutes, what are you telling them they should look for? So that's a nuanced question because I'm encouraging them to make a list of what's important to them and order that. So if employee experience is the most important to you and you maybe had a really bad experience at a previous organization or you didn't like the culture somewhere that you interviewed, you're probably going to want to go to somewhere like Glassdoor or indeed company pages to learn more about the employee experience. If let's say financial performance is most important to you, maybe you were at a really struggling company and you never got your variable comp where you were impacted by a layoff, you probably want to go to their SEC filings or to Crunchbase or Yahoo Finance, something like that. So I'd encourage you as a job seeker, and I encourage our job seekers to do this too, but to make a list, maybe if the five most important aspects to them about a company, order them like rank them and then start at the top, like go to Glassdoor if that's most important, then head quickly to their website. All that said, my one over arching piece of advice for anybody doing any company research going into an interview is that you should know what the value proposition is. So it's not enough to know their mission or their values or to be able to state verbatim from their website. say what their product does, you need to be able to tell the interviewer what problem that company is solving. So, there's a lot that you just said that I want to expand on, but start with value prop for me because that is a term that is thrown around a lot and I think could be a term that gets away from some people when you say know the value prop, what do you mean by that? I'm sure that could be interpreted differently for everybody, so I'll give you what I think of for value prop, but when I think of value proposition, you should be able to know why customers buy that service or that product, what they're getting from it, what problem it solves, and how ROI is measured. So we'll go to like an employee experience platform because we were talking about classroom before. So, for example, if you are evaluating an employee experience platform and you're interviewing for that platform, let's say, Culture Imp, you should know going into the interview that ROI is measured probably on reduced employee turnover, increase employee engagement and enhanced employee performance. You should know how it's being measured, you should know what problems it's solving. So, disengaged employees, high turnover, things like that. So really important distinction there is it's not enough to know what the company sells. It's not enough to know it's an employee experience platform because that doesn't mean anything. Right. You need to know what is the ROI, what are the metrics that it's solving for it? Is there a particular area of a website where you can go to find that quickly? Yes, I love using the case studies and I know we're using like 15 minutes as our benchmark here or threshold. So, I wouldn't want anybody to go through and read 10 case studies, go through one or two, even pop them into chat GPT or something like that and say, can you give me a two-centred summary of this case study? That's probably how you're going to learn the value prop and get real life examples of the quickest way possible. Really good call out. I'm picturing a lot of SaaS companies case study area of the website and oftentimes if they have a good design team and a good marketing team, they'll have as soon as you open the case study, it'll have the metrics that were improved or changed or whatever. So you don't even really have to read it. You could kind of just look at those numbers. Yeah. Oftentimes case studies, like the title of them are like, how blah, blah, blah reduced, employee turnover by 10% and then you know it's right there. There you go. One of our clients did something that I thought was so smart, but she just put the link to the case studies page into Proplexity, but I'm sure you could do it with Quad or Chat GPT and said, like, can you give me the top three themes of these case studies, all of these case studies on this website and tell me what you think the three big problems this platform is solving are. And boom, that's 30 seconds and you've already done your value prop homework. Genius. Okay. So we've just filled 30 seconds of our 15 minutes and there were other things that you said. So to answer back, I asked, what would you do with the 15 minutes? You said everyone should know the company's value proposition and then from there, you should really just have a list of like the five things that are most important to you. And I love how you described that because for a lot of job seekers, we probably fall into this bad habit of just doing a ton of research because we feel like we should, but we're not thinking about ourselves and what we need to get out of it. So I love the idea of just like a list of five things. There was one thing you mentioned like looking at financial data, SEC filings, that sounds really intimidating for a lot of folks. I know that from my time as CS Enablement Manager. So could you break down what a CSM should look for in that kind of data and maybe just like some red flags that they could be looking for? Definitely. And if you're feeling like that's an intimidating thing, you're not alone. I remember with the first time somebody told me that they did that and I was like, okay, well, I have not been doing that. But yes, it does sound intimidating and I'll be honest. Like if you're looking at SEC filings and downloading things like a company's 10K, it looks intimidating. It's a really long dock with lots of charts and graphs and acronyms. It can be intimidating. I'd give yourself a little checklist. So some things to look for would be the business model. You should be able to tell if it's B2B or B2C or B2B2C. If it's a SaaS company, whatever it may be, you should do a quick keyword search. So things like retention, competition, that'll tell you what they're struggling with, what leadership is worried about. Just search for those quick keywords. It'll also highlight profitability. So are they investing back into the business? Are they cash flow positive yet? Pretty important for a lot of folks. The SEC filings will also tell you if they're investing in R&D. So if they're committed to their product roadmap, what their risk factors are. So if you see a lot of mentions of like turn risks, for example, or if they have heavy customer concentration in one area or market or segment, that could be a potential red flag and you can ask for red flags. So if they may be highlighted in those stylings, yeah, 30% of our revenue comes from two of our clients. That would make me nervous. Because if we lose those two clients, we're probably not going to be in a good spot. So customer concentration, any strategy or potential like restructurs, mergers and acquisitions, that'll all be highlighted in there. Okay. That actually does make it way less intimidating. And I think if I was a job seeker right now, I would probably replay what you just said and put that in a chat GBTC prompt. Just use that. Yeah, I hope so. The actual doc is so lengthy and it feels so overwhelming. I actually find if you are just looking at the charts that are often included, you get a really good sense just first sense what's going on. So I'd say give it just a glance. You don't have to read their 10k or anything like that. But look for what's concerning or would be a red flag to you as a job seeker. So going back to something I alluded to earlier, which is like you have a lot of experience in this area probably more than no, actually definitely more than most humans on the planet. You spend more time talking about job seeking and getting ready for interviews than most humans do. So I want to know, maybe just for our listeners want to hear, do you have examples of times where doing well intentioned and specific company research has actually helped a job seeker just to kind of prove the point that this isn't just fluff. And this can actually make or break whether you get the job or whether you're happy in the job, whatever that is. Yeah, definitely. And I don't have name names because that's not super nice, but I do have some examples right off the bat. One of our clients I'm thinking of, she used the consumer use platform G2, which if you're not using G2, please do with one of my favorite sites. And one of our clients went on to G2 to find consumer sentiment about a product she was interviewing for and found their star rating was pretty low and that there was some negative sentiment and that actually directly translated it into the variable comp conversation that she had because she was able to figure out that variable comp was based off of retention and expansion. And if the consumers aren't super happy, their star ratings low, they've got some negative sentiment so much so that they're sharing on a product like G2, you're probably not going to meet your retention and expansion goals. You're probably not going to get your variable comp. So she was able to negotiate a higher base salary because she knew she wasn't going to get her variable comp. Ooh, that's a really good one. Probably one of my favorites and it's just such a good way to translate data into making things work for you because most people wouldn't think to say, "Okay, unhappy customers, probably going to affect me other than I'm going to be miserable in my QBRs." It's probably going to affect how you're going to paint. Yeah. I think to like someone might hear that and go, "Oh my gosh, I'm not saying that in an interview. Like they're going to take this the wrong way. That's going to come across the wrong way." And I get that to a degree. I think you would have to be careful about how you frame it. You're not going to be like, "Hey, I know your product sucks, so pay me more." But I think to a point you made earlier, that shows really good CSM skills. Like I was able to do research, find this data point, and now I'm connecting it to this other data point, and there's a disconnect. Our clients are probably so sick of hearing me say this line. I say it 45 times a day at minimum. But one of my favorite lines to use for anything that's uncomfortable coming up in an interview or following an interview is, "I wouldn't be a very good CSM if I didn't." And so a good way to bring up maybe negative sentiment would be, "I wouldn't be a very good CSM if I didn't do my research and do a little bit of a SWOT analysis on every company that I'm working for or that would be in my book. And here's what I'm finding. Could you please shed some light?" And that's a nice way to bring attention to maybe what you're about to say is uncomfortable or maybe unconventional in an interview. Yup, but it all is. also does one of my favorite things, which is like a totally separate topic, which is self-labeling in an interview where you actually describe yourself as being good at something or describe yourself as something. So by saying like, I wouldn't be a good CSM if I didn't do this, you're basically saying I'm a good CSM. Because I do this, because I'm having this uncomfortable conversation. Yeah, exactly. Which like creates this memory in the interviewer's mind of like, oh, they're a good CSM. So just so many benefits. Have you ever had a client, I don't know if you can think of any sample of the top of your head, but where they did research and it led them to no longer pursue the company. Like, did they find anything so bad? How do you feel in senses of clients who will look for or look through the war notices like WARN. And they're basically notices that companies have to give and the legalities depend on a number of factors, namely how big the company is and how big the potential layoff is. But WARN notices are essentially notices of potential restructuring layoffs and mass layoffs. So I've had a few instances of clients that have done a quick search for a WARN notice and found that there's a WARN notice outside that company, which means there's probably a layoff company coming and they decide like, probably not a good fit for me. I don't want the uncertainty in the future. How do you find a WARN notice? You can literally just Google WARN notices. Now, oftentimes it's dependent on where the company is headquartered. They have to file in that state. So you would have to do a little bit of research about that. And I'll preface with if it's and the rules and regulations depend on the state typically. But if it's a small small layoff, like if they're getting rid of a 10 person team, that's probably not going to be a WARN notice. But if you are able to find a mass layoff WARN notice, something to consider. It's worth giving it a shot. Right. Because if it's there, now you know, I would say in most cases it's probably not going to be there, but wouldn't you want to know either way? Exactly. And it's just good practice for when you are managing your own book of business. It's something you should be doing for your clients to probably because you can more accurately forecast for or downsize or downsells, things like that. So it's just good practice. It's something that's worth a shot. Okay. Super helpful. Any last words of wisdom, I feel like we could talk about this probably for hours. There's just so many different ways you could think about this and angles you could approach it from. But if you had to leave any departing words of wisdom around company research, what would that be? My big thing would just say, don't overdo it. Stick to the list of what you need to know. If you find yourself down a rabbit hole where you're looking at product updates from 2021, you've probably overdone it. Create a little checklist for yourself that gets you the information that you need to know to determine if you'd like to accept this job. A good rule of thumb that I give people is like, if they were to offer you this job on the spot during your interview, would you have all the information you need to know to determine if it's a good fit. And if not, you probably could have done some more research. With that in mind, find something scalable. So maybe it's that you have a little playbook for yourself. So for every company you're interviewing for, you go to their website, you go to their Glassdoor, you go to their G2, and you hold their 10k or you look at their Crunch Face page, just a quick playbook. My favorite piece of advice is to create an AI prompt that works for yourself. So use your checklist, give the AI almost like a personality or a mindset or persona and say, you are a business consultant with 30 years of experience. I would like a rundown of all of these one, two, three from your list for this company. What can you tell me? And it'll give you some pretty solid information without you spending hours, hours, hours. Oh, I love that. I also love the idea of if you're not sure what that list of like five things should be that you should look for based on what you care about, what you value, you could also talk to chat to figure that out. Like, hey, here's the problem I'm trying to solve. I spend way too much down these rabbit holes. Like, what I want to do is just research the few things that I really care about and need to know. Can you help me figure out what those things are? Exactly. It's super helpful. I loved all of your advice. I think if I was to add one thing is just thinking about some of the conversations I have with clients to about this is it's great to be mindful about what you're researching, but also be mindful of when you're doing that research because I think a lot of us tend to do research that is necessary maybe for like a hiring manager interview or a final round interview before we even apply to the job. And I bet so many of you listening to this right now are guilty of that. Like, you don't have to know everything about the company just to apply to it. So also be mindful of like when that research is happening. I love that. It's like dating, right? You can swipe right on someone's profile without knowing everything about them. That is so true. And then you can really do the research if you plan a first date. Exactly. After the first date. And you should be doing your research. And this is now a dating podcast. But it's very similar. Okay, well that wraps up our dating advice segment. Olivia, I always appreciate you coming on. I know we have a bunch of other topics that we're excited to get you on to talk through. So you can stop gatekeeping all of your advice and expertise and start sharing it with the CS community. So lots more to come. But really appreciate you hopping on and talking to us about how to do good company research. And you this was fun. I hope this was been helpful and that everybody listening has at least one small takeaway. You don't need to like start in a whole new five step comforting research play look right now. But I hope there's at least one thing that that's been helpful. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for tuning in. The biggest takeaway I want you to remember from this conversation is that company research should serve a purpose. It should be demonstrating your CS skills and also helping you assess whether an opportunity is a good fit for you. If your research isn't doing those things intentionally, then you're probably overdoing it or just missing the mark entirely. If you love today's episode, if it helped you out at all, don't forget to follow the show wherever you listen to your podcast. That way you won't miss any future episodes. I'll catch you next time. If you love today's episode or if you want to continue the conversation, come hang out with me on LinkedIn. Connect with me, follow me or message me over there. I'm at linkedin.com/in/carly-agar. And if you haven't already, don't forget to follow the show wherever you listen to your podcast so you don't miss any future episodes. I'll catch you next time.