The 10 Best Movies of 2026 … So Far

I'm Sean Fantasy, and this is the Big Picture and Conversation Show about the best movies of the year so far. Today, on the show, we are joined by eight ringer friends who share their favorite movies of 2026 unless Rob Mahoney has stolen their pick, in which case they'll roll with their number two choices. Later in this episode, I'll be joined by John Early, who is the writer-director of Maddie Secret. One of the films picked for this episode, John is a hilarious comedian, actor, and writer, and it turns out a damn good director, too. His feature debut manages to blend Douglas, Sirc, David Wayne, and Lifetime movies into an elegant, heartbreaking quasi-camps stew. John is a great guest, a super smart guy, most definitely stick around for this conversation. But first, let's go to our favorite movies of the year so far and first up, who else? C.R. Chris Ryan. C.R. is here. I am. What's up, man? How much? Are we doing the best movies of 2026 so far now to get it in under the Odyssey Wire because you feel like that's where the movie year turns? No. He has a very complex, scheduling regimen that's, you know, he consults the holy tablets, you know, and the positions of the plan is. Yeah. And then he puts it together before we do the movie auction. It just happens that they scheduled the Odyssey for the beginning of, I guess it wouldn't be Q2. What are we calling? Q3. Q3. Sure. But what if it's just the halves? What is that in business, parlance? No. The second half of the year. Okay. I think. Well, they need to catch your jargon. Yeah. So this is our hydration break in a way. It is. We do this every year at roughly the July 1st mark, and it's interesting because July seems like it's going to be a pretty action packed. But the movies have been, have been popping, as you know, CR. Yeah. So when you chose, you chose a film that came early. Very early. Yeah. What would you pick? 28 years later, the bone temple. And he had to cost his fall up to Danny Boyle's reimagining a reboot of the 28 days later franchise. And I wanted to bounce a little theory off of you that I've been working on was 28 years later, the little kernel of an idea of where we are now with like obsession and backrooms of that like wild, breathtaking creativity. And it wasn't like a massive, huge success. It was, did well enough to get a second movie out there. But I kind of feel like the way that those movies made me feel of like feeling like this director is really taking me into their own personal world and that this is an idiosyncratic and agmatic way of telling these stories, even if there are things that we've seen before. Certainly, that's the case for these two movies for the two 28 years later movies. But I wonder if that like, we'll go back and we'll look at that as a little, a little signal that something new was coming down the line. I have no idea. I can speak to this film's specific qualities, if you want, which is need to cost it out of really, really tough assignment, which is to follow up this franchise as originators return to the franchise. And he did an amazing job. Your number one movie. 28 years later. And she just very wisely chose to do something different. It's a much more static film. It's not as kinetic. I mean, there's certainly like really incredible action sequences in it, but it's much more of a two-hander really between Ray Feinze's character and Jack O'Connell's character as like these two poles of how you would deal with such a, a tragic apocalypse and you know, what happens to the human soul when it's put in this situation. But it's also about grieving and it's also about loss, which is the first one's about to. And, you know, I just thought it was just such an electrifying way to start the movie or I thought it would be a good movie to highlight. I didn't really see, like I didn't draw any of the conclusions, the connections that you're doing around horror movies and things, maybe like a little bit of a longer period of time, but this movie is, I thought, was shockingly great. And I loved the transition, the stylistic transition from what Boyle was doing to what Nate Acosta was doing, huge look for Durand Oran, quality needle drops. Obviously, we're very Feinze forward on this show. Love his work. I think he's definitely an Oscar non-worthy performance. It would be nice if they kind of learned the lessons of Gladys and, you know, continued that. Yeah. It was a little bit of a financial let down. And so because of that, maybe it will be more of a struggle. But there was news that Boyle is coming back and is making the fourth film. Yeah. I mean, I think that if you're saying, like, Killian Murphy is going to be in another zombie movie, it's really hard to just be like, now we're good, you know, yeah. And Jack O'Connell in this movie is terrifying and funny and hard to watch and then without spoiling it and an incredible set piece of sorts at the end, very different than the Causeway and the set pieces of 28 years later, but memorable. Very memorable. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great pick. It's interesting to think about or five of the films being talked about on today's episode being horror movies, you know, in fact, that really has had centrality in the conversation this year. And, but this is like, how do you guys feel about that as, you know, keepers of the flame? Pretty happy. I mean, I think that there's probably some people out there that are like, no, it's a genre for freaks and we've always just been denigrated and kept to the back of the video store or whatever next to the porn, but I think it's where you love to be. I think it's a really exciting time to see all these different filmmakers working with some of the conventions of horror. And I don't really look at it as like elevated or not elevated or prestige or not prestige. I think it's all, it's all pretty interesting to me. I completely agree. Movies in general, very democratic medium, horror movies, one of the most democratic genres that we have. I do like, I mean, you know, DeCosta comes by, honestly, I mean, she made a candy man movie like seven years ago. It's not like she's not interested in the genre and what it does. It's interesting to see a movie like obsession happen where, like, that's a hard genre horror movie with like violent, gross stuff, like beheadings and very upsetting spells and curses and things like it is pure horror. And for that to cross overs, quite fascinating. But this one is a bit more elegant, even though it has a lot of gnarly stuff in it. I really hope that they get to make the third one just because I think it'll maybe give a little shine to the second one. I think it'll, if there is a third one with Killian coming out, I think people might be like, oh, I missed the bone trouble because it came out in January or I was waiting for it to get to Netflix. And I hope that there is a little bit of a revival. I think this movie is definitely due one or it will have one in the years to come. So I'll keep saying it as praises. Great picks here. Thanks so much. Okay, Joanna Robinson is here. Hello. Hi. So you've chosen a film. I have. Was this an easy choice or a hard choice? It was. I was really excited because usually as the narrative on this pod, Rob Mahoney takes my pick. It keeps coming up. It's literally every second. It is a theme. It is a theme. He was sitting right next to me when the message came in from Jack and I was just like, and then I was like, Oh, check your phone, Jack sent us a message, but I already replied. Did you get the sense that you were taking something from him? I don't. Just once. I would like someone to take something from Rob Mahoney. We will be drafting later today. Maybe we can. Don't know that this would have been his number one pick, but like he picked right after me. He took your number one pick. Yeah. So yeah, stuff. I'm interested to talk to you about this movie. We saw this movie together. We did. And what is it? It's Projectile Mary. Okay. So this movie, one of the biggest movies of the year, the first strike in the movies are back narrative. We are kind of living through here, right? And what usually happens to movies like this, I think, is when they come early, they start to get diminished. Yeah. A little bit like the flaws start to get elevated a little bit. We've had a more time with them. I wouldn't say it has happened in a dramatic way to this movie, but it doesn't feel as shiny and new as some of the other movies that are being picked, even on this episode. So I want to hear your strong, long defense for the film. What you love about it. Joanna, what an old-style pick you picked from just a few months ago. Do you feel, I mean, do you feel it, like the shine is off, Projectile Mary? I mean, everyone has very short attention spans, but especially people who track box office and what the new shiny thing is in movies, and especially if you have to talk about movies all the time. Absolutely. I think also maybe a little bit in terms of awards sense, because we are all Oscar nerds on this podcast, and we all saw Projectile Mary, and we're like, "Huh, so is that our big, is that our sinners for this year, is that our big block early in the year, blockbuster that turns into Oscar nomination, you know, King. And we are in the time of the year where it just gets the sinners, which happens to sinners as well." So it's just, you know, I enjoyed it. Yeah. I'm not going to ask you, I'm not going to put you on the stand, you're not going to say defend yourself. You're not going to say defend yourself. No. I'm not going to say defend yourself. No, I'm not going to say defend yourself. Like, when for sort of original sci-fi, even though it's an adaptation, it's not a not a franchise movie. Despite what murmurings you might have been hearing about a sequel, I think it's like an incredible standalone. I think it's a movie star story for Ryan Gosling, which is really important. It's a studio story for Amazon MGM. So in the big pick sense, it is like this interesting business story of the year. And then- And they canceled an artificial movie because they have a deal with it, open AI. Oh, yeah. And they- They put out human, like I'm not saying. Everything's great for Amazon MGM, but this was like a big win that they kind of needed. - So will we heard from in this episode? - Yeah. - Have you known? - Not by Sean. - Not from me. - No, family. - Yeah. - Yeah. - What a chaotic choice. And I really love the movie. And like, you know, I'm here to praise Project Hill Mary not Barry disclosure day, but I think that sort of like, a lot of people got that like Spielberg feeling from it. It was Lord and Miller's first film that they directed since 2014. This was almost a sort of like, maybe you should have let us have soloist or a story moment. So there's like a lot of narrative around it. And then I just, I really loved the movie. I loved seeing it with you and Mallory. I took my nephew and that was like huge moment. Like I got to take my nephew to the IMAX theater and he just like loved it. - How old is he? - He's 15 and he just like loved it and he loves that book. And so the book readers loved it. The people who had never heard the story loved it. I love a puppet. So like that's an awesome story that's gonna keep going. - And going so like. - Apparently, his name escapes me. The puppeteer who also- - James Ortiz. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It sounds like there's gonna be a campaign for him in supporting actor, which is fascinating. And I would love for there to, you know, we've heard about this for years and years and Andy Circus has been put up many times. And I never really cracked through. I do feel like the Academy making a bunch of these changes getting the stunt category in like all the stuff that we've kind of been winging about for 10 years. They're getting their heads around and the body's so big now. That would be just a great story. - I agree. - To get a puppeteer who's doing that kind of voice work. 'Cause it's only two performances in that movie. That's really it. Aside from Sonic the Hooler. - Yeah, who's fantastic, yeah. - Yeah, and she's wonderful too. But yeah, that's a great part of it. It's loved to hear that about your nephew. And I do think it's completely fair to compare it to disclosure day. I mean, probably just tell me it doesn't exist without ET. So that's totally a component of the story. - Yeah. - And one side is a very hopeful, optimistic, excited version of the story. And one is a little bit less so. One is really a little bit more of a like, I think a beaten down vision of what the world wants us to think is behind the shadow, you know? - But they're both trying to end on this like hope core note. And for me personally, at least, the hope core was more successful inside a projectile marry. And I think it's something that will have that, I mean, I actually don't really care if it wins Oscars. I care about the Oscars in general. But like, I care about that sporting actor narrative. But like, I do think it might have a resurgence 'cause they were so smart about the way that they marketed this from San Diego Comic Con last year, all the way through the debut. They made a ton of money. I think they really rolled it out very expertly. So I think they know they need to be like, quiet for a minute. - Yes. - And then come back and feel like a sort of, remember how much you loved projectile marry? Just get the puppet out there. Get Rocky out there, get him performing it. - Rocky on the purpose. - Yeah, like I just, it's candy and a great story. That would be fun to say. Gostling, in addition to being a performer's a producer of the movie and so he stands to be a best picture nominee, assuming the film goes all that way. So I think you're right. I think it's gonna go quiet until about September, October. They'll probably have a real release of some kind. It is a movie theater movie. That's the thing too. It's like one of the reasons why it worked so well is people going back multiple times to check it out on the big screen. What else, anything else you wanna say about it that really connected with you? I know, but you've done multiple podcasts about the film at this point. - I have, I've talked about it a lot. - I don't, do you see it as a movie that you wanna show your kids? Is this like a kind of, like, enduring classes? - I toyed with it this time around. I think it's maybe a year or two early for Alice. It's somewhat complex at times and it takes a little while to get to Rocky. - Yes. - No, I was thinking about the kind of the first 30 minutes. But the Rocky of it all, I think my son would respond to. I think both would actually. - The note that I remember us having when we came out of it was just sort of like, if it had just been a little shorter, a little tighter, it would have been an all-time sort of classic. - I still feel that way. - Yeah, I kind of felt like the more time I saw it, I think two other times in the theater and every subsequent time I saw it, I expected to feel the runtime more and I didn't actually at the end of the day. But also I just saw it with like full, excited audiences and that's just a huge part of that whole experience as well. - Totally, and that I think has been, that's been the trickle-down effect of going to the movies for the last, for the four months since it first hit, right? Guess what, movie theaters are great. Seeing movies with people is great. And like the last couple times I've, I mean, certainly last year, 'cause my pick last year was black bag. Like, I think I've been talking about films that I watched at home alone and it just feels so different to talk about a big, just so fun that we had a big blockbuster movie that be any of the year that we've gotta, we're staring down the barrel of a bunch this summer and there's even more waiting for us in the fall. And that's just very exciting to me, so. - I totally agree. Joe, you're the best. What are you gonna come back and talk on the show about? What's what are you targeting this fall? - I don't know, what are you gonna have me on for? - And last year you called your shot with Hamnet. - Yeah, and that one really well for Hamnet. (laughing) - You did great. - I started crying. (laughing) - Anything appealing to you. - And what do you do in my shot, too? - I don't know. - Why don't you anticipate it? - Oh gosh, I don't know. I mean, my mind is so stuck in sort of, the odyssey's right around the corner. Inspire man's right around the, you know, in that sort of house of our way. So I have yet to migrate to, where to the fall Oscar. - Are you hype on spider man? Where's your head at? - I'm medium hype. I think Sadie Sink is incredible and everything that I've heard from people who've seen it is that she's fantastic and they're hiding her so much in the trailer. But I'm really excited for this as a potential sort of new chapter of this world that has felt like it's running on fumes for so long. So this is potentially an expansion. How do you feel about the mutant centering the MCU? - I'm glad you clarified which mutant is she? - Probably G-Grey. - Sure and that's who Jennifer Lawrence and no. - No, no. - And then Sophie Turner? - Yes. - And Fom Good Jenner. - Okay, yeah. - So different than Blue person. - Think about the red heads, yeah. - Okay, good luck. - Sure. - I'm gonna see it. - Yeah, of course. - And then I'm gonna go on vacation. - Where are you in spider man in general? - Pro. - Yeah. - I mean, I really liked the last one when they pointed at each other and then when Andrew Garfield saves Zendaya, but you were thinking of Emma Stone and I thought that was a very beautiful listen. It's when it's a team, it's a good character, you know? Like it makes sense to me. Am I, do I know anything else? Not really. - Not really. Where are you in Clayface? - I'm extraordinarily excited. I'm in the midst of attempting to book the first ever Tim Simons Alex Ross Perry conversation for that episode. So that we can talk about Gore effects. - Right. - And also the pain of being an actor, which is what Clayface is about. How are you feeling about it? - I'm really excited for it. I'm like bizarrely very excited for it. - It is actually, it's sort of similar to Andor, where it was sort of like, you could have been doing this with superhero movies all along. We've been waiting so long for you to just be like, scale it down, tell a different kind of story. - It's something weird. - Yeah, yeah. Anyway, all right, Joanna. Thank you for being here. Prestige TV podcast. House of our. - Correct. - What else is cooking right now? - A truly big picture. - Big picture, rewatchables. - Yeah. - See you soon. (upbeat music) - Charles Holmes is here. It's been a minute. - Yeah. - I'm sorry about that. What do you, what do you've been up to? What's going on? - I've been in the trenches. The LA trenches is getting wild out there. We can barely go outside without having a breathing apparatus. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's been tough. That's been a struggle out here. You just spent nine minutes exterling the virtues of your skincare regimen to Amanda. - And fitness routine, which is germane to the film. - That's it, that's it. - My brother is still in New York. And if someone he does not work out and he helped his like 27 year old friend like move from Brooklyn to Harlem. - Yeah. - And he's like, "I can't move my body. I'm like dog." - Listen. - I'm 33 right now. I'm like, "I can feel if I do not move my body." - It's just gonna do. - We're training for life. And so when the bounce house hit yesterday, and I had to just throw children in like kettle balls, one by one, I was ready. - You were, were you ready? - No. - I did my work. - Did your daughter came over and said, "Please trust me." - That's not true. I literally did get it to her. - Are you doing back stretches? - Every day. I stretch, but I am not on a fitness retina right now, actually. For the first time, these last two years, I have stopped fully and need to figure something else out because I'm headed towards the back nine. You're not at the back nine yet. You're still hailing hearty. - Yeah. - You could be performing in the film that you chose at the stage of your life. - No, but for the film I chose, this was a late stage pick, but the furious. - Yes, so why did you choose this movie? - So it's funny, before I chose this when I was talking to Jack, I was originally gonna pick Nirvana The Band. And to me, even though one is a comedy and one is a martial arts film, both of them share a quality that like I, that makes me fall in love with movies all over again, is like this is something that only these creators could do. Where it is like, I think the furious was budgetated at something like 20 million. And I was reading interviews and the director was like, we are not Tom Cruise. Like leave jumping out of the helicopter to Tom Cruise. We are not that furious. We cannot film cars as great as they do. What do we have? And it's martial arts. It is the judo, it's the wushu. And to me, this is just, I thought I was gonna go and think like, this is such a Chad boy experience. And I'm like, I'm watching beautiful men at the height of their sportsmen, like just lives doing ballet. - Yes, truly. - It kind of reminds me, everybody's saying like the comp is the radium. Like this almost reminds me of crouching tiger almost where just the choreography is the story. - Yeah, the martial artistry is more the thing with this movie. There is a lot of, it is a fusion of those two kinds of films though, you know, because there's no gunfighting in this movie. - Yeah, this is not John Wick, this is not going through. - Yeah, it is hand-to-hand, but the choreography in the fight sequence is astonishing, I mean, it is really, really, but the thing about that is sometimes you can talk about this and I think it can be alienating where if you're not a martial arts movie expert or you don't know the history of that stuff, that sometimes it can be like a little boring or you think you're maybe thinking of feudal Japan or something, but this is a contemporary set story. And it's also kind of funny in a way that Nervana is funny too. I mean, the way that it's choreographed is you're meant to be like jumping out of your seat and like chortling to yourself and plotting. - There is the scene and it's been in the trailers where they are in a cage and there's no way in real life a fight would work like this, but our main character is quite literally like building a skyscraper of beating guys and he's like stepping one over another and instead of having like a gun, he's just killing people with like a hammer. It's just the lizard part of your brain is like mucky beats other mucky with hammer, cool. - It's like this is crazy. - It's physical comedy. Which there is, there's a line from three stages and then musical comedy and then people fighting each other, which is what can you use your body to do that is outrageous and unexpected and like not really true to life. - Not true to life, but exhilarating. - It was exhilarating and even like it should not make sense that there is at the, the greatest fight I've seen in decades happens at the end. It's a five way fight. - It's so great. - You almost stand out of your seat when they split the frame in five. - I said the same thing on the show. It's that part is just so awesome. - But to get there, you're just like, there's this big hulking mass of a guy. Well, basically wakes up and he's not a zombie, but it's like he just like runs to the fight and you're like, what is happening? - Yes. - And then you just have like five guys who all have like grudges. But the movie has also done this phenomenal thing where it's like this is not taken where the whole thing is we are going all the way to rescue the daughter. Halfway through their movie, they rescue the daughter, they rescue the captured kids and you're like, what's the rest of this movie? And they're like, oh no, they solved the problem. I don't actually give a fuck about these kids anymore. I just want to see people beating each other. - Yeah, it's a set piece machine. - It's also like, it does tip into Dada surrealist. - Yeah. - It's like, it's not even really important what's happening with what matters is the poetry of violence that is on screen and that character that Charles is describing is like a bullet-headed, gigantic man who has, is like axed to death and then comes back to life in alarming fashion and then biochemically knows which path to follow to find the fight that is happening. - I was laughing the entire time. - The police station at the end of the movie. Yeah, this is a lot of fun. I'm not super familiar with, was Jimmy Yao, the one, the silent star of the film who's the father of the little girl. - So either was I, I'm going to butcher their names so I'm not going to even, but like the other two stars, one of them is one of the greatest martial arts artists. He's been in the rate. He was in the rate as well. - Yes, when you see him in a movie, you're like, this guy is the devil and to defeat him, these characters are just going to have to. - Oh, oh, you're referring to him. He was the guy with the young man. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever you see him in a martial arts movie, you're like, oh my gosh. - There's a, there's a, this movie puts the death of Robin Hood to shame and it comes to bow and arrow battle. I will say that for sure. - I was, this movie, I was enchanted and it's also funny where a lot of times, 'cause I was like, when I left the movie, I can tell it had an impression on me where it's like, usually I'm like, all right, I'm driving home. I'm going to listen to like a podcast. I'm going to listen to an album and I drove home in silence 'cause I just want to, I was just like, what did I just watch? Like I don't want, I kind of want to just bask in this memory of being like, oh, we can still do cool shit in movies. We can still do stuff where I'm like, I'm still kind of scratching my head. I'm like, I can watch all these videos of how they did this stuff and still there is a, there is a magic of cinema of being, hey, some guys can just like dance and the dialogue is them fighting and beating the shit out of each other. And what more could you want at the age of 33? Did you see it with a full crowd? - So I, yeah, where I wanted to do a movie theater check-in for you. - So unfortunately, I watched it at one of my least favorite movie theaters, The Regal Passio. - Okay. - Tough. - Passio? - Passio, how do you say it? - I'm doing Paseo. - I'm doing Paseo. - Paseo. - I'm doing a lot, you know? - I don't know. - And they have a large Kim Crawford port when you need it. - It's, that is not my favorite 'cause I will say, I also saw what's the, what's the Catholic movie where they're all voting? - Conclave. - Conclave. - I got there with you. (laughing) Where are they all from? (laughing) Oh, he's there. - This is beautiful. - I saw the reason I could never really go to that movie theater again is I saw Conclave when Trump was elected the second time and I went into the movie not knowing what was gonna happen. And I left and I checked my phone and I was like, oh, the world is like, I walked out. - Sure, yeah, your silence. No one was talking. - Yeah. - Everybody had a negative association with that. - I have a negative association. And when I-- - And they have the new, they have like the school desk chairs now? - Yeah. - I don't really under, I feel contained. - But what I was like-- - I'm like, I'm a container seeker. - This was a Thursday at 4 p.m. And while it was not packed, I did, like I was doing a little bit of like a sociological like study 'cause it was grown men who were like in their forties there, but all of them had brought their partners. Like there was just, I was like a date night, but it was also 4 p.m. And these men were like-- - It made forties in '50s and I was like, this is a, this is on a Thursday. - On a Thursday, it never for one second crossed my mind to bring Eileen to go see the furious, not for a single second. I can't imagine a thing she'd enjoy less. - See, I will say the partners, the women, left the movie theater not seeming that in thews and all the men were just like-- - Yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - People standing and cheering in the middle of my movie theater, it was amazing. - I gelped during the five, what they split it in five dollars, like I was almost about to just like stand up and just keep standing. - So sorry that we had boy corner. - Listen, that's good, it's good when people make the highest version of their art instead of trying to do stuff in the middle that pleases nobody. - I was trying to do the drama, Rob Mahoney picked it. - I'll be too, but Mahoney gets me every time. - The drama and the furious, I will just say, ending on this would be a great double feature, love it. Like to me, these are both speaking to the same things. Just the fight of the human spirit and then the fight of hammers drilling into forehead. - That's beautiful. - That's beautiful. - Well done, thank you. - Oh yeah, thank y'all. (upbeat music) - Mallory Ruben is here. - Hello. - Hey, Mall. - Hi guys, great to be here with you. - When were you last with us? - Well, I mean, I know the answer unfortunately, 'cause I had Star Wars draft. - Yeah. - I've known many sleepless nights since. It was the Star Wars draft and when I fall asleep at night, I see the Skywalker family tree. So last thing I see before I doze off in the first thing, the posture to my brain when I wake up in the morning. - Yeah. - But in your version, the little tiny things are part of the tree, right? - The droids are on the family tree. - No, no, I know what the droids are. What are the other ones? What was the real hail of the Mediterranean's? - There we go. - Yeah. - Well, I received a lot of feedback from people in the internet saying that I was right, and you were wrong. - Can I also say that I received a lot of feedback from people who thought that you were me? And so, yeah, that has been all of the same times. - Yeah, that's sure. - That was a tale as well this time for us, yeah. - Not all women have brown hair. - 'Cause we, exactly, I was gonna say, we do both have brown hair, but we could not possibly have more different, but you did our interest in case they're so different. - Yeah. - So. - And yeah, two of our most important gals in the world to me, you know? - That's beautiful. - I mean, thank you for saying that, what an honor. - Okay. - What an honor. I miss you guys. - We miss you. - Do you want to lead with your complaints about the procedural aspects of this episode? - Yes. - Go ahead, floor of yours. I have some complaints about the procedural aspects of the draft, which we'll I think have already aired when this airs, but we'll be recording after. So I'll save some of my ammo. No, I'm kidding. I can't wait. Or am I? We'll find out. - You're always very normal in drafts. I've noticed that about you. - Yeah, I have three thoughts today. - Come thoughtful. You roll with the punches. - I'm excited for the draft. I actually do think that I've been better served in general by a more mellow approach to the draft, which is what I will be bringing today. - Oh, I'm sure. - I can fully expect to encounter that momentarily. - So for this, I saw the text. - And how did you pick it? - Sean hit up the group chat, you know? And this is a Daniel tradition. I was in Sweden when you hit up the group chat. - Were you actually in Sweden or were you on one of your 14 layovers? - That's a good question. I think I was in Sweden when the group chat came. And all of the many layovers and the many hours of travel when I was also not responding to texts came like that. And before, by the time I was able to catch up on the group chat, the exchange, the two movies that I would have really loved to pick. Project Hail Mary in 28 years later. - Yeah. - Had been selected by two of my dearest friends and colleagues and now sworn enemies. - Okay. - To add on Chris. And then I thought, okay, we got a couple weeks. Sean is such a thoughtful planner, always ahead before we record, mandible, a little feedback because we have. Feedback from a man that's surprising. Notting of the head. Shaking. Not a nodding, actually. Shaking of the head. I thought, you know what? The planner should be the title of my memoir. That would be good. Did you consider that for your newsletter? No, I'm saving that. The fact that pocketing that one for down the road. In my 70s, you know, it's going to be. Will you still be potting and author photo? I'll be on a beach. What about you? I'll be on my own island. Oh, yeah. I love the spirit of creativity. I love creating. I love sharing my thoughts with the world. I like the spirit of creativity. And I will be engaging with that by reading other people's books while I sit on a beach. Amen. I thought maybe by the time we pod, I will have seen sheep detectives, a movie that a year is wonderful, and feel sure I'll love. Didn't get a chance. And I was like, you know what? We're recording this a week, a couple days after Toy Story 5 comes out amazing. Yeah. Conflicts last week couldn't make the screenings and I was out of town. This is just a nightmare. You told me all the way up until the last minute, the last night. I texted you 10 minutes before a Toy Story showing this week out in the city I was in, which was not Los Angeles. And I was like, I might go. I was there for a dear friend's birthday celebration, so that would have been irresponsible. And I did not want you to do that. I am glad that you picked the experience of friendship rather than the movie, quote unquote, about friendship. I did actually end up sitting in the hotel room for those exact same hours doing other work. For what it's worth. But then later I came into other people and it was honestly wonderful. It was wonderful. Listen, then you got the lesson of Toy Story 5. I haven't got to see it yet. So I have chosen Disclosure Day. A movie that I thought would be worth including in the podcast and discussing. But I, and I do think it's interesting to talk about, but I can't say like, to quote Chase Serrano with my chest is actually my pick for best movie of the year so far. But I do think it is a movie that has given us something that is wonderful. Something that is one of the best things that movie fans can have, which is debate and discussion with each other and probably more crucially of all and excuse to dive back into a creator's canon. So one of the things that I just loved about the run up to Disclosure Day was not that I need the excuse to do. That's not that any of us do, but these excuse the opportunity to revisit some of my favorite movies of all time. Right. I was like, time to boot up Close Encounters, which I did. Time to boot up BT, which I did. Time to boot up War of the Worlds, not a movie I particularly enjoyed, but I still did it. I was like, dare I rewatch Crystal Skull and then I was like, you did this a couple years ago, chill, chill. But that's a great, I don't actually think that that ultimately helped my reception of Disclosure Day candidly. But it was a wonderful thing to just like engage in the discourse. Your favorite thing online discourse Amanda. I love the hair from other people. Fill us in a files about where this movie fits and stands, not only in Spielberg's Filmography Overall, but like specifically the UFO films. And the opportunity to really think about how much of that area of interest, which has spanned decades of his creative life, is like the aliens come to us here on Earth. It was just an interesting moment to reflect on his relationship to that type of storytelling. I thought the movie was very propulsive and entertaining and I also had a lot of notes on it. But it's been really fun to like, to listen to you guys talk about it, to pot about it with Joe, to see it with my husband and talk about it with him. And just to like, when I was out of town this weekend with friends, it was a big topic of conversation with people. And so that's just been kind of like a neat experience as a movie fan. And so that is my pick because I could not pick those other movies. I appreciate you picking it here. We had such an interesting experience. We saw the movie together. We did. The three of us in Joanna, and there was an unusual series of scrums of people exchanging notes after the screening that we went to, which is pretty rare. I would say at these screenings, you sometimes get like maybe one polite two minute conversation. Right. People were like, no, let's do a 15 minute, 20 minute breakdown of how we really felt about this. The podcast were happening in real time. They were. Yeah. And you could tell right away, this is going to be really divisive this movie because there were some people who walked out. I remember looking at one very prominent journalist wide into the bathroom. He was just like, nope. Correct. And that was like, am I crazy? No. Yeah. And so it has been funny that it has gone into the blender. I think as often with these things, like heavily marketed movies from huge famous filmmakers. If they don't land certain parts of the story, people get very, very reactive. And there's been a lot of really negative reaction to the movie. That's probably going to subside over time. A lot of Spielberg movies also tend to get reclaimed pretty quickly. You mentioned not loving War of the Worlds. Right. Which is a movie that I really loved at the time though I do think it also similarly has law script flaws. Also a David Kemp script. Yeah. I think a lot of times what happens with Spielberg movies and we talked about this in the 21st century conversation is, his personal kind of philosophy and perspective, plus the filmmaking chops, tends to outlive the story annoyed me. Yeah. Components of a lot of his movies, especially the second half of his film career movies. Crystal Skull is one of the precious few that I'm like, no, like I just can't get on board with this. Wild film. Yeah, very weird movie. But, um, fun to rewatch. Yeah, I don't know. I've only seen it one time though. You've seen it a second time. I've seen it twice as well. Yeah. And I mean, I confirmed my experience. And in terms of I think the filmmaking aspects of it are electrifying. And I learned more about the old alien, you know, and, and continue to think what I thought about that alien. Jim Alien. No, it's like it's alien 17, right? Jimmy in vivo 17. Yeah. Is that right? Yeah. You've really absorbed all of the canon from where you add an alien Hugo, a pro alien in general. I enjoyed your discussion with each other about whether your entire creative and professional and personal lives would halt in full if aliens were revealed to us. I believe aliens are out there. It feels impossible that they're not. Okay. Um, I enjoy the genre. You think they're here like on earth? Currently. Hmm. Good question. And what would you do? What would you do if disclosure day happened? So that was obviously, I know this is a podcast where we're supposed to pick movies that we really liked. Yeah, talk about what we like. The, you know, the conclusion of the film was like where it really lost me, honestly. The idea that like, first of all, I think the local news broadcast news element, but also the idea of the public response. I understand. No, just respect to Gordon Grace, who should. I hope they're starting that supporting actress campaign. Let's go. And, you know, that was another. I'm glad you said that because that was another reason I thought this was a worthy selection for inclusion in this podcast is because so many of the performances were really wonderful. The Emily Blunt performance in this movie is amazing. Just amazing. I hope it stands the test of time. And I think it is undeniably one of the best and most compelling performances of the year so far. So that's really fun. I liked watching Colin Firth bite down on the mouth guard. For me, that was compelling. Not sure if you had any thoughts on that. Do you prefer Colin Firth with their brown eyes or the blue eyes? I like him. You know, I'll quote Mark Darcy and say just like just the way. You know that that was actually. Do you know that that was a literal reading at my wedding? That speech. I would expect nothing less from you and Zach to of the pure. That was one of my choices. Yeah. Great stuff. I mean, Bridget Jones is a sacred text. It's a sacred text, obviously. 25 years this year. That's a film. Is that possibly true? They film, I think it's 2001. Yeah, books earlier. Yeah. We are fucking old. We're old. I would like to think that aliens that it would be pleasant. I like ET. I loved projectile Mary, my actual fear of the year so far. Rocky, the goat. But you know, Joe and I talked about this in the pod. It's like we covered, you know, not. Not so long ago. Three-body problem. The Netflix adaptation of a really hallowed. That's about. Fantasy trilogy. Spoiler it is. And the thesis on which those books exist is a much darker. Or read on the inevitability of a certain type of conflict. If extraterrestrial life not only existed, but we were capable. If species and races from different areas of the universe were capable of interacting with each other. So part of what I love about the genre in general is the fact that there are so many different ways of engaging with what an interaction encounter like this must might look like. I thought that especially because so much of the disclosure day run up was really like secretive and guarded that there would be maybe a different. Degree of like the thesis of what this might mean other than the aliens are here. And maybe it's okay and the problem is actually the people which I think has been present in the text before. But you know, it's an entertaining two and a half hours in the theater. I saw it with the Jen pop the second time around. The theater was loving every second of it. People were whooping. They stood and clapped at the end. Did you see the fable mints? I did. Oh yeah, absolutely. At home. Not in the theater. But I watched it at home. Yeah, the one thing that I have been, because I've seen obviously all the discourse that disclosed your day as well. Naturally, in fact, it's come directly in my direction a few times. But you know, the movie is certainly marketed as a movie about aliens and what aliens came to earth. That's not really what the movie is about. Right. The movie is very obviously about what happens to you when you're a little kid and why do you become the way that you are? And how it haunts you and then maybe solves you or helps you find a clearer path to your life. Yeah, that's a very heady concept. That's not a very one. It's not marketable at all too. It's the kind of thing that you say to somebody who hates a movie and they're like fuck off, which I understand. It's a little bit about aliens though. Yeah, it is, sort of. And they roll one out on a modified wheelchair at the end. It is certainly about aliens. It's about like our culture's interest in the idea of aliens, you know, we don't spend a lot of time with those aliens in this film, we don't really, it's not like ET, ET is about an alien. 15 minutes of footage of them, just being like, and here's another thing about aliens. And they upload it to the Dixon in the footage, you know, they're they're looking at stuff. Yeah. Next one. Uh, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that. No, no. No, I'm not. Um, are you a next and guy, big next and guy? No. No, not a fan of his policies or the way that he, uh, ran his administration. Okay. I seem like kind of a mean-spirited guy, a little hateful at times, really resentful. Um, I thought it may be a bigot, yeah, seemed like based on some of the secret recordings. One thing I don't understand, recording yourself, I've never understood this. I mean, this is also a note I have for basically every single, like, spy or CIA plot when they're like, well, here's the file that shows all of this. Why are, well, if you're a nefarious government entity, don't keep files. Yeah. Just, just don't. Yeah, just burn them. Yeah. Or write it down. Or write it down. There we go. This is always one of the things like what if they recorded and committed to the record that someone can find, but also what did they name their shadowy organization, you know, putting the villainous intention right there in the name. This is another recurring note for the X. Yeah. What does it stand for? Uh, I give you $100 right now. If you can do it, I don't have $100 on me, but I can buy my own. Weaved is the first word. Yeah. I just be clear, I'm not going to give you $100, but do you carry around $100 bills? No. And he doesn't anymore. No. And he stopped carrying cash. Let's see how much money I have right now. This is how we're going to write this. But I do, I do feel like cut this for social. He could introduce like a throwing money down on the table. It would be good element to that. That could be interesting. Let's count it right now. You don't need real money. You could use like imperial credits, like a Star Wars. I, for a while, until Juliet learned his name, that's a lot of cash. This is, I thought you said you were done with this 40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 140, 160, 180. Oh, there we go. There we go. See? What is that for? Are you like tipping the valet with a crisp punch? This is a long island. Not of that. Of many interests. Do you carry that around because you're like future proofing you believe the apocalypse will come? You never know when you're going to get in a jam. Venmo won't work. You'll need cold hard cash. Well, how often are you going to the ATM? Not often. Okay. Because I'm not often in a jam. Okay. I'm trying to live a jam-free life. Okay. But everyone's in a while. You have not been lowered into a Hansel and Gretel fairy tale-esque cottage in the woods. I would never. And looked into the eyes of a CGI, deer, fox, cardinal, raccoon. Hasn't happened to you. Wouldn't happen to you. And yet I feel such a kinship with those characters who were lured in that way. Part of the reason why I liked this movie. You do often feel kinship with the chosen ones. So, yeah. Mal, any closing thoughts here? This was a deranged segment of this episode. You know, I'm looking forward to catching up on more movies. Let me say that. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of good cinema this year that I haven't seen. Do you think that if I had seen sheep detectives or Toy Story 5, I would have picked one of those? I do. Yeah. They're both very much in your zone. Yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing those movies. Let's just almost pretend I have seen and picked one of those. Okay. But I enjoyed discussing disclosure day with you. And I look forward to the continuing discourse on this podcast. You know, I mentioned this to you. But one of my favorite experiences recently was looking back in the big pick archives because Joanna and I have been doing a Christopher Nolan rewatch, heading into the Odyssey. We are. We're doing tenet. Obviously a movie that you two are engaging with in the present timeline as well. But as I told Sean, I looked back into the archives and you guys podcasted it about it five times in the year 2020. Yeah. Well, there was not a lot going on. And we were stuck in our houses and we're in the car where we watched it in San Diego. It was wonderful. Yes. Wonderful to remember those times. How many times do you think you'll podcast about disclosure day before it's all said and done? Well, this is three. Something to think about. So it will be done for a while. Yeah. Okay. We will be podcasting about tenet once more in the great city of Toronto in July. And we will be seeing the movie on a big screen for the first time, I believe. Oh. A group of people. Well, since the drive-through. The drive-through was, it was a large screen. It was a big screen, but it wasn't a movie theater experience, I guess, as the way to put it. Anyhow, Malar Rubin, thank you for the best. Van Lathen is here. What's up? What's up, friends? How are you? I'm fantastic. How are you guys doing? Very good. Always. So I know what you chose. Yeah. It's a film that Amanda hasn't seen. That's true. Yeah. Especially. What movie do you pick? Masters of the Universe. Is this truly deeply madly your favorite movie of 2026? No. Okay. Okay. How did you happen to wind up on this podcast talking about Masters of the Universe then? Rob chose the drama. Yeah. Is that you also want to pick the drama? I would pick the drama. Me too. Yeah. And this is no shot to Masters of the Universe. Literally five people have said I wanted to pick the drama. That's so funny. So just watching the drama at the grove with a full audience was phenomenal. This is going to sound so stupid to so many people. But when in-game came out, everybody in theater was ooing and on and all of that stuff. The drama had nobody flying around, no capes, no powers, and people were just like that. People were just like that. Their buzzing. This amazing communal experience. A lot of people had a lot of political things to say about the movie and some of the subject matter that I dealt with, I at no point wrestled at anything. I fell into the story. It was awesome. It was by far my favorite movie of the year. But if I couldn't have it, this next one is right there. It was great for me to sit down and not only relive my childhood, but kudos to the filmmakers of Maslow Universe for attempting, attempting to inject some contemporary storytelling into this thing that I watched when I was a kid. They tried to take care of it. They did not do a perfect job. A lot of people saw the movie didn't like it. I actually really enjoyed it. And at the end, it gets to the point to where Adam becomes he-man, and I was captivated by that. We've been talking a lot about toys today. You know, just in our lives or our kids lives, he-man toys were important to you. He-man. Well, because there's only one he-man. There's only one he-man. But then the other masters of the universe were also- Are they all masters? They don't really explain it. I think they're the masters of the universe. I think that he-man. What universe? Well, this is complicated, you know? This was a toy line that was refashioned out of the spare parts of a lot of different kinds of stories. Yes. I listened to Criff and Newman explain that. Barbarian stories, sword and sandal stuff, a lot of high fantasy plus high tech. That eventually became an animated series that I assume you watched with as much religion and fervor as I did. And there's not a lot of lore-explication on that animated series. That stuff came with later iterations of it. Like I think when we were looking at it, it was like even when Shira came along, it was like, oh, you know, Skeletor used to be a member of the Horde and like, oh, he's not in the Horde anymore. He left. Shira was kidnapped. And I'm like, oh, there's more. There's more story. It was like a bigger thing. A bigger world. A bigger world. But- It's also in multiple comic books telling different strands of the story that don't agree with each other. Like it's kind of a mess. But it's primarily a toy company's idea of a story instead of a creative single person, like Jack Kirby and Stanley being like, this is- They did it backwards. This character. Yes. They started with the toys. Exactly. But also, they did it backwards, but they were also doing it and undoing it because the toys came with a comic line like he's talking about, like a mini comic, right? But that mini comic was sometimes a little bit too straightforward and violent for what worked for the cartoon. So like sometimes they would be like, okay, well, this is on the mini comic with the toys, but the cartoon they were using to sell the toys, well, we can't do that on there. Like Skeletor as first was this like really mean evil guy and then midway through the first season they go, this is better than if he's a little bit funny. He's kind of funny. He's kind of like a Paul Lind, like fabulous, you know, goof. Yeah. So you're eight, ten younger for me, but you're like four, I'm like four, so you're not aware of any of this. You're just taking what you're doing on a TV and you're just like a loser brain, like that also, man looks cool. Okay. Right. It's like on TV and it's in Toys Or Us. Rest in peace to my life. Yeah. To the same for me. Excuse me. Where do you think I got my time? I don't know. Okay. I don't know what's going on. So it's there and it's there. And then that's it. All the other stuff, like, I wasn't aware of it. I'm like, the movie like kind of does, it does scratch that boyhood feeling. I felt, I mean, I think the movie is very flawed and like kind of a mess at times. But it's weirdly takes chances with a property as stupid as he, man, right. And makes does a couple of fun things and when he lifts the sword, yeah, as I have the power, you're moved. It got me, man. I know it got you. We saw you right after the screening. Yeah. It does. That's a large part of it that has to do with chocolate. But honestly, it's also something that's so earnest you can like mess it up, like watching him access this ancient power and his whole thing changes now that he's the champion. He has powers to go back out and stamp out all of these people that are trying to take over his kingdom, but it's not enough. It's not enough because he led a contemporary life where Mike doesn't make right. So he's got to do it a different way. They tried to do that in the movie. They got there enough for me. But once again, you guys hear it from me all the time on here. I get if you didn't like it. It's not fuck you. You got to stop reading the Reddit page. No, I love them. No, fuck that. No. No. You live in your truth, which is that this meant something to you. And I haven't seen it and we're here together sharing our feelings and they don't matter. I'm going to cap for the Reddit page. You guys have the best Reddit page because at least on your Reddit page, there is some discussion about movies. If you go to the higher learning Reddit page, it's like, man, it's getting fat. No, I'm losing weight. But at least on you guys's Reddit page, there's some discussion of the movies. Not no Reddit page is like without its toxicity. I get it. But what I'm saying is, I don't want people. I want people to understand whatever I even want on the midnight boys. I want people to know that I go to these movies to enjoy them and celebrate the stuff. Sometimes the movies are so bad that you can't do that, but that's rare for me. And also, the higher you aim, the further you have to fall. So there are some films I go to that are supposed to be really important movies. And I'm like, that's a high degree of difficulty like I just don't get it, right? But if we kickin' shit and flyin', you should be able to make that be good. With this movie, he man works. Adam doesn't work as well as he man does. Skeletor, unfortunately guys, really works. And Jared, that was finest performance. It was like, it's unfortunately Skeletor. What was that movie he was in with Denzel? It was The Little Things. He played a serial killer movie. He was unable to capture. It was a very bad film. He was nominated for Golden Globe First Performance. Yeah. So that's why when the people still thought he was kind of like a serious actor that every performance had to be like, taking note of- Orbredding. Yeah. But in this, if Skeletor tour works, the movie will probably work. But I get why people didn't fuck with it. If The Drama is not my favorite movie of the year, this is my favorite movie of the year. And there's a lot that's going on. I have been like, evangelizing the movie, like, retweeting stuff. Go see he, man. Nobody went. But- Yeah. It'd break incredibly hard. Oh, it's a break. Yeah. It's a break. Number one, the reason why this movie breaks to me is, this is a movie that like- This is for people in their 40s. That's what it is. Right. And it probably should have been made in like 2015 or 2010- 2012. 2012. Yeah. They were going to do it. Early in the superhero, we're dredging up this old IP stuff. Right. So this should have been- When we were in our 30s, we could have been excited about- Yeah. Maybe. But like, now these kids don't give a fuck anymore. Stay with us. I watch this movie. I was like, yo, I'm 40 fucking three. I'm 43. I'm looking at this shit. I'm like, yo, this shit was- This- This is 40 years ago. I fell in love with this character. My mom goes to see the movie and my mom calls me. She's like, I know you saw he, man. Remember? I know you love he, man. You see he, man? They did all this stuff. He did. He had the sword. He did the whole thing. Remember that? He, man. He loved it because it reminded her of me watching it, you know? So that plus the fact that it made me appreciate Barbie a little bit more. Obviously, Barbie had this- Yeah, man. Generational kind of hold over a culture, but Barbie is a well-made incursion. It is totally a credit to Barbie, the movie, and how hard it is to do what credit did with that movie. Yes. And like a master filmmaker taking that property and making it this- Treat us on like who you are, what you are, what it means to be that. And that was though. He meant to not do that. But I said this on our episode, but I mean, the way that Barbie is very much about femininity and being a woman and contemporary times, this movie is trying to be the same thing for being a man. It's trying to explore masculinity, toxic masculinity, sort of like the role of polytests in culture and what is safe and what is not safe to say. And like it's a cool idea and it never really works. Right. I will say I could- there are parts of the movie. Like there's one stretch in the film where Skeletor comes into He-Man's world. And it is kooky, kind of scary, hilarious, and incredibly effective. And you could see in places where you can see the seams of the movie a little bit. You could see a couple of the movies, right? What it could have been if the film would have let itself be that. Because like that part legitimately is the thing that made you go, "Oh my God." I had the same feeling. Like we're like we're having fun like this movie is actually fun and then it ends on a high and you're good. But I had a lot of fun in He-Man. We're doing this now. The fun is still around the corner, which is interesting. So why are we doing it now? Because- Because this is in the scriptures of the big picture, it is written that at the end of June, really right around the July 4th holiday, the middle of the year we do the first half. It's mathematical. Yeah. Oh, I see. Yeah. And it's not because we're trying to get something in before the Odyssey or Spider-Man or anything like that. It's just this is the midway point. We do it at the midway point. We'll do it again at the end of the year. Um, and by the way, not just, I should say, not just the drama was taken. Like some other movies that I saw were taken as well. Go ahead, speak on it. They obsession. Yep. I took that. I don't like movies like that. I normally do not say that was fucking brilliant, man. I agree. And that's why I picked it. And that's what I'm going to, what I want to talk about is just like how it has broken containment. Yes. Yeah. And like an open a genre to people who are very hardcore, not a part of that genre. So the lady from the movie is from superman in Louis. She is. And so I see her and I'm like, I watched her watch religiously. Superman and Louis is actually a really underrated superman story. It's like, actually, there's a lot of cool things. Superman and Louis moved back to a small veil and they're raising kids. It's really interesting the way they go about it. But you know, see her in it. She's blowing up. She's amazing in the movie. And by the way, I didn't know that the movie had a supernatural, uh, uh, pull to it before I saw it. I didn't know that there was actually a whole wishing thing kind of reminds you of, um, close to Stephen King joint, where the guy a sinner, yeah, where he, where he also a monkey is Paul tail. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So like the man wishes or he was cursed with thinness, cursed with thinness, um, and at first it's like, oh my god, I'm losing weight. And then after a while, I'm losing weight. But like, I thought that movie was phenomenal, totally perfect moves at an incredible speed and like for, I don't know as much about the director as everyone else. Like awesome Jordan Peele type, like level, when I'm battling, but when I first saw get out, everyone talked about the script and the script was phenomenal. I was like, as a director though, did you see how amazing he could craft tension and obsession does the same thing? I feel very similarly about, um, well, we, we'll talk about it when we talk about obsession, but we're going to jump off of that point because we're going to talk about obsession. Next fan, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for repping for him in. Yeah. We got the power. We're not over yet. He, he man, she, or go, attorney, we all coming back, bitch, they got every time you order, every time you order something from Amazon Prime, you make it the next he man movie. We not stopping. Thank you, man. Okay, the mean pod author, Adam name it is here. The author of a forthcoming new book, Adam, before we hear about your favorite film of 2026 so far, you want to, you want to plug the news? Yeah, it's a book about cinematic history and relationships of fathers and daughters. The title, which I've read is not going to be great for SEO because it is a misspelling. It's fine. It's dead. It's dead. It's dead. You know, do true theory. I figure a book about fathers and daughters and films should be titled with a dad joke. Who knows if the book will, you know, end up with that title. Who knows all the movies that will be in it because they will keep making movies for the next year or so. But certainly, you know, movies like After Sun or Trap or Tony Erdman or even one battle after another, you know, these are relevant contemporary films on this, on this title. And I'm really trying to deal satirically and a little critically with that idea of the girl dad, mostly because I hate how easy it is to perform that and I try it as a father of daughters. I hate these as a father of daughters thing because I recognize where it comes from. So this will be a, this will be a fun book starring, you know, a long history of movie, movie, movie girl dead. Some of whom are sociopaths. Yeah. A lot of whom are sociopaths, in fact. It's true. Congratulations to you on the news. And I'm excited about the sequel, boy, mom, you'll be working on how's that going? I would say there are three movies in the in the canon. Let's see. We've got Dune. Yeah. Dune part two. Anyone? - That goes for, oh yeah. - Big. He has a mom, I mean, I sure has a mom, sure, but I don't really remember her. He has two mommies when you consider Elizabeth Perkins. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, it's exciting for all of us. Okay, Adam, let's talk about your favorite film of the year this four. A film we have not yet discussed on the show. But we will, the guest of this episode will actually be talking about their film as well. So what did you choose? - Yeah, so it's a three-hour Latvian film shot from the point of view of a pigeon with rapies. No, you know, it's a, it's a Maddie's, Maddie's secret by John Early, which I think is the film, it's the film I wanted to talk about the most and not 'cause it was left over. You know, I'm low on the pecking order. So the email and they're like, well, these seven films are being discussed already. And that's fine. That's not a number one. Yeah, it's okay. You know, I think I'm seventh chair. You know, there's the third chair debate with the Great American Playwright Tracy Letz, a great playwright. And the Great American Non-Playwright Chris Ryan, you know, I'm just, I'm resigned to like seventh chair, but this would have been my first pick, which is a John Early's Maddie's secret. - What is it? - Why did you choose it? Why did this movie move you? - 'Cause it's very funny. And you know, noted for, noted for my own, you know, you know, sense of humor. No, it's a beautiful film. And it's a movie that's created to an interesting discourse recently. I say this respectfully around the idea whether it's a parody, right? Because I think parody and satire and pastiche are often interchangeable, which is, you know, a function of discourse. And camp is a, camp is a hard thing to talk about. You know, can camp be intentional? Is there such a thing as intentional camp does camp kind of have to be hapless or helpless? And John is such a smart filmmaker. I mean, I don't know if people, I'm sure people on the pot are familiar with John or at least work. He's in that Taylor Swift video. You know, I think that he was seen for the most. But, you know, a stalwart sketch comedian with his comedy life partner, Cape Verland, really good actor, he's on Search Party. And as it turns out, a pretty brilliant filmmaker, this is the only movie I've ever seen to crossbreed Todd Haines and David Wayne together. I think it was for Ringer. I said something last fall at TIFF, like Wet Hot May, December, which I think is like the most succinct way of describing what he's doing here. It's great. But it's a, but it's a movie that spiritually resides kind of in like the after school specials, or not even after school specials, like lifetime movies or TV movies of the '80s. There's a very particular film, which I still haven't seen called Kate Secret, which is a kind of, you know, diary of a bulimic housewife or an anorexic housewife film. And the real balancing act to this movie, which well, it's funny. I find quite serious Maddie Secret is, how do you conjure up that kind of movie, that kind of like social problem movie, or that sort of psychological problem movie, talk about how it tends to sensationalize and flatten these issues, show that you kind of love that sort of movie, and that for John early at least it's quite formative, and sort of just make it, like make it pretty straight ahead, while kind of making fun of it at the same time. That's very tricky. And on top of that, John plays the lead part in a drag performance, which he says is inspired by actors like Devine, who acted for John Waters. I think that John Waters is part of this movie's DNA, certainly because John really has said it so many times and movie like Showgirls is part of this movie's DNA. So I'm just automatically inclined to be like, "Oh, this movie is inspired by Showgirls and Paul Verhoeven." You know, it's obviously good, but it's one thing to be inspired by those people or put filmmakers like that in their letter box for, you know, lots of Verhoeven showing up in people's letter box for these days. But like to understand what they do is harder. And I think that this movie on top of being funny and silly and having a like, who's who of alt comedy people in it? Connor O'Malley is in this movie for like about five minutes and every fucking syllable is gold. And he's so funny as well. - He retains funniest man on our title through this film. - Funny's man on earth, I believe at one point he's, he's playing the like, not the CEO, but like he's in charge at this food influencer comedy. And I remember at TIFF, the scene where he just looks everybody goes, "Let's make some content." I'm like, "This is screen grab." Gold, you know, when this is what I do as well. - Yeah, let's make some content, you know. But the idea of this, this would be foodie, she's working in the trenches kind of as a dishwasher at this social media food influencer company. And overnight she kind of becomes, Maddie becomes this great chef 'cause she's really talented. And he has an ear for dialogue in this movie where they're not jokes, but everything is funny. Like at one point, Maddie says to her husband, like, I was just trying to make my husband dinner and now I'm in post production, you know, 'cause her stuff's being uploaded to Instagram. And, you know, I don't know what you guys thought of it. I think you both liked it, but the trick that he pulls here of making something that is sincere and in quotes in the same time, starting with his performance and extending to almost every element of the way the movie looks, how music is used, how references are deployed, I adore it. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of year left, but this will end up on the year end list for me. I just think it's wonderful. I like the two. I think it's gonna be a little bit of a what's it for your common movie goer because it is such a blend of so many different things that John obviously has a lot of adoration for, but I think it plays pretty well as a pure social media food company satire. I think that that stuff, which has played very broadly, but very funny is effective, but it is really much more of an emotional crisis character piece, you know, and maybe in a way that you won't see coming about halfway through the movie. - Yes, which is played if not for laughs, but at least in a knowing way, which to Adam's point is both parody, but also very emotionally affecting. I thought this was a movie that understands the world of women very well. And also understands watching it. And knowing that everything is absurd and you would rather not be a part of all of it and you get slurped into it at the exact same time and you can't escape. So, you know, incredibly well observed. I am also a huge generally fan, very funny, but I loved it. And I do think it is very specific. You know, it has the content jokes and the CEO jokes and it is also about eating disorders. And there's a wonderful girl interrupted, send up in the middle of it. So, you know, it has references that you might not understand on like a very specific level, but I think it plays pretty smoothly. 'Cause, you know, it's not impenetrable. - No, I agree. And I think all those different sources that you're talking about, Adam, he treats all of them fairly and with respect. Like he treats Kate Seeker, which I have seen starring Meredith Baxter. - Yeah. - With a lot of respect, he's not, he's actually not par, he, the only thing he's parodying is the culture around some of those things, but the actual films, he's paying as much homage to Douglas Cirque as he is to the Lifetime movie and not saying like, this is something stupid you should make fun of, which is a really difficult balancing act, I think, and he pulls it off. - Well, and like, you know, I bow to nobody in my love for David Wayne, for instance, who I think has a similar satirical project sometime in a movie like They Came Together, which is one of the funniest movies I've ever seen, where the link between, you know, contempt and affection and knowledge and engagement is very thin, but the difference is, and this isn't a knock on David Wayne, like his movies are not what you would call visually beautiful. You know, a movie like Roll Models or Wanderlust kind of looks like a glossy mainstream comedy and wet hot looks cheap because it was. Maddie Secret is beautiful. Like, color-coded cinematography. You mentioned Douglas Cirque. I mean, that's not just a throwaway. I mean, Douglas Cirque, Todd Haines, you know, "I'll Motive Our Even Verhoeven." These are like incredibly technically proficient filmmakers and the fact that it's that good looking and expressive visually on a basically homemade movie budget or what I understand. And the fact that there was so little oversight on the movie is I imagine how they got away with as Amanda was saying, such a specific tone. Like, this is not a movie where you get notes, you know? Like, there's no notes on Maddie Secret. Like, you're either in on making this movie, you know, or you're not. And I will say, I mean, Kate Perlant, who's worked with him a lot and she's another stuff too. I loved her for like about two seconds in the moment this year. I got so excited when Kate Perlant showed up in that film. In this movie, I just find the actor for like walking into rooms and sitting down and just like being on screen helplessly funny. I think like every, I think like every time she breathes in this movie, it's funny. And it's not a lead performance, but she's kind of on screen the second most, I think. And she's demented and great. She's the best friend. She also, and which leads to the best friend dancing sequences, which are just absolutely essential. Right about that. Just sublime. I also really loved Claudio Diardi, who I hadn't seen in something in a really long time, but she put sort of the rival influencer, but she was on that Netflix series, Love. And it was so, so funny on that show. I'm playing basically the exact opposite character. She was the warmest, sunniest, funniest person on that show. And she is quite, quite demonic. And an interesting representation of a certain kind of person who is rising to power in the media right now. Well, Adam, this is a great recommendation, man. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not the only one. It's been very well reviewed. And I'm interested to see how it does. Thanks for joining us and thanks for caring for your millions and millions of daughters. We appreciate you Adam. Yeah, they asked, they're like, what my older one is like, am I going to be in the book? And I'm like, do I have permission? Sort of, you know, she thinks that this is going to be an excuse Leah to watch other movies. She's not allowed to watch because part of what I want to write about is this idea that screen time isn't something that I want to keep separate. Like when you watch movies for living, you guys both know about this, you know, Sean, how much of your life if you sent just, you know, sitting and staring in front of a screen in a basement, I want to pass that on or else, what was the point? Oh, yeah, so she's excited now because she's, she's excited now. She's like, you know, we're going to get to watch stuff to together. And yet, they're not father, daughter, film, she asked if this meant we could watch Texas chance at a massacre. Oh, and I, how old is she? I said, no, nine and a half. But she listens and she's or getting close, right? Isn't, what do we think is 11? I think 11 kind of like fuck 11 is just the fuck zone? Because she's going to find a way to see it without your, your consent by 11. I mean, that's what I was doing when I was 10, 11 was just seeing things and not asking my parents if I could. Yeah. In fact, with access to things like a plex and various streaming things, it is only scrupulous honesty that has kept her from doing this. Already, I live in both fear and hope of the moment where she's like, guess what I watched? Because that's what I was doing when I was, when I was 10 with the, with the VHS shelf. But you know, you know, that, that, that, that hasn't happened yet. I can't wait for a formal thing. It's going to be this book is going to make Adam which is more lovable. It's really, it's going to make him one of the most beloved figures in the film, film watching community. As long as the like small percentage of the big picture listeners who just for some reason seem to hate my guts, you know, don't, don't, you know, don't, don't, don't like it, then I'll be happy. Welcome to the club. I'll never make yeah, you should never make to their home at home. Don't worry. You should never, never, never make all the people happy all, all, all the time. You know, I love, I love big picture listeners very much except for the ones who just seem, you know, hopeless. Yeah, spoken like a trooper. Hovin, I thank you, Adam Neiman. Thank you guys. See you later. Yassie Salik is here. Hi. Hi, how are you doing? Oh, luteal is how you're ready to party. How are you guys? Just Andy, Nick's in five. Yes, I heard about that. Yeah. Did you watch any of it? No, okay, we don't have to speak about that here. We can speak out to other things. Maybe that was the good luck charm is that I didn't want to. Yeah. I don't think that's how that works. But I appreciate your care and attention to the New York Knicks. I'm, I'm very pleased with the film that you've chosen. Thank you. And I'm looking forward to discussing it with you because it was it was slandered as trauma core by our co-host here and artists have done it. First of all, I never used the T word ever as you know. No, I didn't say it. I said that I, whatever. This is Yassie's time. And then we can discuss. Yassie, what film did you choose? Are we able to pull back the curtain on the how the sausage is made here? You would be the fourth consecutive guest. Yeah. Yeah. This is really something we're in a four hour long podcast recording when this question was asked. Okay. And I'm not saying that I don't deeply love and respect backgrounds because I actually really do. But my first was a drama, but that's so fine. It was everybody's for sure. And that's again, Rob Money, fucks everyone over. Absolutely villain. Obviously. Yeah. And what a what a dichotomy in that person of like the nicest kind of. Orin. Yeah. And who's actually so sinister and do you know, it's for the jugular always. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, great rep for him. And also I had a secret second choice. But you were so unkind about people who loved the movie on the big picture podcast that I was like, no one shouldn't talk about that. Now I'm trying to think super Mario Galaxy. It's the sheep detectives, which I loved with my whole heart. And that's okay. We were unkind. I think we were just not in. I did. But I didn't hold myself accountable. I did say that people are losing the plot a little about that movie. I think that was the direct quote, because it was made into a meme. And I'm sorry. It's okay. I love sheep and detectives and feel good movies. You could have chosen it. But I want a ship to sheep. Um, the sounds like like not. Well, right, this is kind of why I'm, you know, feeling feeling imagining a no effects album cover real heads will know. Um, listen, I love it. I love when an animal talks and there's I love when I'm reminded of the beauty of humanity. But I'm also segue. I also love when I'm reminded of the absolute, um, hellscape that we live in in modern times, which I filled back rooms did a great job of capturing, even though it's set in the past. You are the first person I know who saw the film. Um, you went to the premiere and you rubbed into my face. You said, I'm going not going to your face. Um, but you you said, I'm so sad. I wasn't invited. But I'm it would have been nice to see with you because I had a great deal of enthusiasm for the movie. And you loved it. You did that night, I think, even you were like, OMG. I love this movie. I feel really lucky. Well, of course, I was invited. Thank you so much. A 24. Um, but I, I really love to see films with no chatter, like with no, nothing guiding my perception before I go in. And I, I did kind of, to be honest, go in being like this. I don't care about this. Like, I'm going because I was invited and my friend was invited and we're like, we'll make a fun night of it. Did you go to R&D Kitchen? We went to, um, what is the Houston's West call? R&D Kitchen? No, no, the other one. Oh, Hillstone, sure. R&D doesn't take reservations and I'm not a waiter. Okay. Either way. I'm not a waiter. I don't like to wait. Let's just put the context around this, the arrow theater. Santa Monica, Los Angeles is where the premiere took place. We're the Angelina across the street is R&D Kitchen, which is an outpost of the Hillstone Restaurant group. It's the R&D Kitchen is mostly focused on sandwiches and, uh, and drinks. It's more chic for sure. And it's closer to the arrow. But I need to have a, I need to have a reservation. We walked from, from Hillstone. I like to get my steps in. Good. Um, but anyways, all that to say. Sobbing very valuable. I went in with no preconceived notions. And to be honest, kind of like a maybe a, I don't, and you, you guys know, or maybe the listeners don't, I'm not a huge horror movie per cent. Um, but I walked out being like, this was fantastic. So what, what specifically connected with you about it? Um, I love, I felt like it was like a raw shock test. I love when a film is kind of that, you know, where it presents you with almost like the thinnest of plot and concept. But through that, you're able to like have your thoughts provoked. Kind of endlessly. My kink is having my thoughts provoked. Do you know what I mean? I do. And I like, I love psychology. I'm a psychology nerd. Yes. Might one say some of the psychological metaphor was lightly heavy-handed. Sure. But okay, here's the thing. Can Parsons 20, right? Back rooms, we all know because we've talked about on this show, but comes from a 4chan meme. I think I'm so interested in how we're increasingly post-language. In the world, and especially with young people, like memes are borderline post-language. The way Jen Alpha uses words like niche and aesthetic, it's post-language, you know. And I felt this film was in many ways like the first piece of art. I've seen that captures that post-language kind of landscape. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I think when you are raised in a screen-centric environment, what dominates his images, that's the thing that you are consuming and kind of defining yourself through, as opposed to experiences or conversation. And so I think that's a reasonable leap to make generationally, that that's how younger people than us are thinking about how to make art. It's just we're partling towards that. That's a very positive, I think thoughtful, but very positive, read on it. And I think that they're, you know, the criticisms that we had for the movie, which I would really like to see again, were that every time it tried to be more of a traditional film, it kind of got a little bit lost. And I thought making kind of obvious and kind of dull choices. But when it was following that path that Yassie was talking about. To Yassie's point, the more it relied on actual words. And the more it was trying to explain what was happening, instead of creating the vibe and the emotions through the visuals, the production design. And the performance is like, you know, I thought to tell EGF4 and we're not, we're not irons, but we're good and we're did a lot with, you know, not that much material. And I agree with you that I, the less you know about something, the better. And this did as kind of a standalone experience work in enjoyable ways. My problem was when I went back and watched the YouTube stuff. And the more lore and the more it become, we did down. I didn't do that on purpose. Yeah, the less, the less I understood it because I am old and I still use language. But I don't even, it's like, I feel, I feel sometimes the way, and it's film to film. But I feel the way sometimes about films that I do about music and songs, which is like, I don't really care what the filmmaker's intention was that it was about. I care what I thought it was about. Like, I don't care what Stephen Malcolmis wrote summer babe about. That's about me and my high school boyfriend. And I thought back rooms really provided that for me. And I was able to like, kind of have this like journey of the psyche around it. And also, it just like, it captured a thing for me that I think about a lot in, like I said, post-language, extremely online world, which is that like, everything is sort of this like existential crisis all the time. And everything does feel like a liminal space. I feel like I'm constantly in a liminal space. I've been trying to break my phone. You guys break your phone? - No. - You'll be up on the bricking. - Well, I know what it is. - I'm familiar with it. - Yeah, it's not something I do, yeah. - Yeah, you don't need to. You're not mentally ill like myself who needs a physical device to be mentally ill, yeah. - Put myself in a straight jacket and I'll go on to the social media. - It's kind of a defining character if you think anybody who comes in this show is your kind of mentally ill, yeah. But I've been doing it. And like after like two or three days, I was like, okay, so it's interesting because that's the real world. This world I live in is fake. And that's really how I was feeling. I was like, my day-to-day lives life is not a real space. It's a liminal space and that's the real world. And I was like, oh no, what happened? Like, how did I flip like this? But I think a lot of people feel that way. - Well, it's funny to frame it this way too as a first-time viewer of this kind of story because a lot of what you hear, I've heard this from a lot of friends who are parents of older kids than our kids is that the conversations that are happening after the movie amongst teenagers are based in a lot of what you looked at afterwards. Where they're sort of like that lore, which is so exciting and intoxicating when you're a preteen or a teenager that contributed, amplified the movie going experience. But as a bunch of old people, we look at this as this like fresh raw new thing where not as entrenched in that lore. And we can understand it in the same way that, you know, I think the lynchian comparisons are totally out, you know? I think it's unreasonable to compare a 20-year-old's movie to a racer head, but David Lynch was 20 when he started working on a racer head, you know? So it's like-- - So many people are like, what was that man on about? And then started to like have conjecture about what he was on about. And it probably has little to do with what he was on about. And that's why it's awesome. - Yes. - And I do I think we've criticized it for the, like that the quote-unquote "movingness" of it, like doesn't work in a traditional script or arc sense. But I think what you just said identifies that it does actually work in a movie on its own because as a standalone product, a bunch of old people who don't understand backrooms or lore were pretty impacted by it. And then the young people seem to just be like, be really into, you know, whatever's hidden in there. And so that it can operate both ways as an achievement. - It could have dialed back. I agree with you though I was listening again to you guys' episode about it. And I do think they could have dialed it back a little because what you said about like breaking the form is really interesting to me. And I think, I don't know 'cause I'm doing conjecture, but I think if Kane Parsons had his way, probably wouldn't have included. - There's been so much ham-fisted-- - There's been so much ham-fisted. - Like the parts that were a bit ham-fisted. Like I think there's a scene where you tell a Geo4's character which says like out loud what the, how the backrooms are, his mind or whatever or something. And then like, but I just like, I'm such a nerd. I'm like, I love that his shadow was a monster, you know? Like, and I know that that's like quite obvious, but maybe it's not if you're 20, you know? Like I've had 13 years of Jungian therapy. Like for me it was titillating, but I think it's an interesting thing to put in. And I love that 20-year-olds love this. That makes me hopeful and happier or 15-year-old. I could not agree more. I think the lack of self-consciousness in so much of the filmmaking is part of what makes it really special or it's like, it comes from a very raw and primal place that is informed by a lot of other stuff that came before it. Obviously, Cain is consuming a lot of stuff and kind of iterating on that, which is what a lot of great young filmmakers do where they take their favorite stuff, they kind of smash it all together and make their thing. - Yeah, that, I mean, that's just the history of film and also all art or something. - Oh, yeah, yeah. - But memes are art. Like I would down that, like memes are absolutely art. Memes are a reflection of a societal illness or happiness, whatever, I ain't reading all that. But-- - No, they're doing making them too, for sure. - They're both, they're capturing. And I think I heard you ask this question of maybe Amanda about like, what do you, how do you feel that these are all horror movies? And I was saying to a friend, I was like, I kind of feel like it's a bit of a red flag moment of her society that horror movies are so popular because we're all living in horror all the time. So of course capturing it is what's gonna be the most reflective of what we're experiencing right now. - I know I have a slightly like inverted perspective on that though, which is that I think that so, people are so ennured to a lot of like bad news in the real world that they almost have to go to have a sensory experience on a big screen and why it to be confronted with something that makes them uncomfortable as opposed to scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. Oh, Iran, oh, this terrible shooting. Oh, you know. - Outside horror. - I'm not even like the horror of being alive. The horror of trying to navigate a world in which we're so isolated from each other. We lack community. - So you have a mix of five, four, okay over here now. - Okay, Nixon, I did see a free. - A big up rush of community around that. We saw some people. - We did, people came together. - People who weren't there, as long as they were not from there. - What do you mean you're the bandwagon? - You're not at the LA bandwagon? - No, I think LA and New Yorker were in it together. - Were there a lot of LA people jumping on the New York bandwagon? - That's not very forgivable, I don't think. I don't think you can jump on that. - I didn't pay too much attention. - Okay, you're LA forever. - Well, I'm from here, I think you should probably be honest about you. - But you also don't watch basketball, so. - I used to watch the Lakers quite heavily, like like six full years. Like that was my like meta-world piece, that's my guy. - So I know a bit about basketball. I just, you have to choose at some points what you do with your wild and freshest free time and I have to make 600-page Google Docs. - Okay, we should talk about meta-world piece off here. - Okay, I have some stories. Any closing thoughts on Backroom? It's a great choice. - I really liked it. I think I like, I mean again, like did I think the sheep detectives was maybe a more perfectly executed film, but that's not really what I'm looking for when I go to the movies. I loved that, but what I'm looking for when I go to the movies is to walk out and think about it for weeks and the sound design was out of this world. Like I don't usually notice that kind of stuff, but I walked out being like the sound design and then when they hit you with the fucking boards of Canada at the end, I was like, I'm sorry, okay. Good job, Cane Parsons. - Thanks, Yassie. - Thank you. (upbeat music) - Okay, Rob Mahoney, the villain of this episode has arrived. - I don't know where this came from. - Little did you know, your name has been uttered many, many a time thus far. - Okay. - Because you swooped in and as is your custom, not just from Amanda, but from, I would say, at least three other people. - Yeah, you have been cited every time. We've gotten a lot of feedback on the process by which the movies are selected. - Yeah, what are the notes? - Everyone is mad at Sean because they didn't get to pick before you. - I was like the third person to respond. - That is true. - So I don't really see how this is my fault. - I don't think it is either. And I think our system is profound. - I also would just like to say that on this particular episode, I was letting the guests choose first. - You did. - So, you are welcome. But this would have been my pick as well. So I rubber stamp your selection. What is it? - My pick is the drama. The movie I would say I have, by far, thought about the most. - I had the most conversations about of anything that I've seen this year. It's just one of those moments where, for weeks after its release, everyone I knew, even if they had seen the movie or not, wanted to have the intellectual exercise about it. So, who am I to turn my nose up at something? That prevalent, that profound, and just honestly that hilarious talk. - Let's have the exercise, very briefly. - Okay. - What did this movie make you think and feel? We are broken as a country. Very American movie, but also-- - Not made by an American, notably. - Right, I mean, quite perceptive. - Made by a man who maybe does not have the fondest view of American culture. - And does have the line, isn't this an American thing? At some point, said by its non-American star, Robert Pattinson. - It's very fairly gestured. But also just like the question of, what are we willing to forgive, specifically in our partners or perspective partners? I think everyone's line varies. Thinking thought crime is a particularly fertile area for this one, and I have to say, I'm probably more forgiving of thought crime than most, but I have never been in this exact situation before yet. - Yeah, the movie that's seen from one angle is obviously a really absurd satire. Seen from another angle, kind of an interesting, realistic portrayal of the way that terrible people communicate with one another or don't, and the way that people who feel like they can't be themselves because of some of the ideas that they've had, close down, and then other people who feel very comfortable with their awfulness kind of enacted on a daily basis. I don't know that I'm not sure if this movie got me thinking that much. I think it kind of like landed pretty clearly for me, and I quite like the movie. - Yeah. - And I do know why there's a robust debate about it, but I'm not sure if I was kind of pulling anything apart of my head. How did you think about it? - I felt the same way, and I think the movie does the deft thing, and it is because of the choice it makes to make the Zendaya character have this confession. She did not go through the school shooting, but she says school shooters. She says, I planned a school shooting, which as an American is, you know, the third, fourth, eighth, like the worst rail. And it's a smart choice because you instinctively as an American viewer, and probably as any human being, but I can only speak as an American viewer. It's like tense up and are horrified, and don't know what to do, and don't know how to react to it. And so then how everyone else reacts to it is plausible. And you thus spend the rest of the film figuring, arguing with what everyone else is doing, as well as what she's doing, and arguing with, and through that and through watching the movie kind of getting to a place where maybe you know what, or I don't know what you would do because, again, there is this fantastical quality to it. The other thing I like about this movie is that it is, in addition to that thought exercise, it's just a great movie about the total terror and impossibility of commitment and the unknowability of the other person. And it's a wonderful movie about how terrible weddings are, just like, just the pits and incredibly well observed about the wedding industry. The wedding photographer, dialogue alone, is just straight out of the most heinous documentary ever made. Just truly horrifying stuff. The choreographer. And then who, I just. Who's that? Is that a heroin addict? No, that's the DJ. That's the DJ, yeah. Sure, you know. But like, never forget. But those are twins, right? That these people are set up to do this thing that is being portrayed in just like an absolutely nightmarish light. And they're also facing their worst fears about the other person and the realization that you, like, you kind of can't. You can't know. And you can't totally know what to do. No. And which is why I think the ending lands as perfectly as it does. Like, this to me is a romantic comedy, straight up. I agree with you. And it's like, it's kind of beautiful in the end that there is something in the construction they have made for their meet-cute and then their reunion at the end of the diner. There's something kind of undeniable about that display of, I don't know, forgiveness is the right word, but the grace of acceptance. Right. Right. Let's start over in a way. Yeah. Sure. But you could also read it as two terrible people making peace with their fucked-up faith. It does every judge. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we screwed this up. And it's nice that it can be read both ways. I think that's the difference for me between this and, you know, we were just talking about Blue Valentine for unrelated reasons. Blue Valentine's and movie were like, I do not want these people to reconcile. They're so clearly toxic for each other. I kind of wanted these two to reconcile. Like I kind of wanted them to find their way back, even if they are messed up, even if they are at odds, even if everyone around them is so convinced that what they have is broken or flotters in day as character particular is. I kind of just wanted to see it work and that's, I mean, that's a magic act within this movie. Yeah. I think the primary attention of the movie is Pattinson's character trying to reconcile what he thinks he's supposed to be feeling versus what he actually feels and trying to make sense of in polite society is this okay? Is it okay for me to be married to someone who has thought about this versus do I actually just still love this person on their own terms, but what has this doubt that has been cast inside of me pushed me to do, which is kind of emotionally lash out in an unfaithful way. And that's really, I don't know, brave is not the right word, but it's an unfamiliar kind of revelation about human behavior that like I think was fairly common in movies in the 70s, 80s and 90s and that we just do not see that much of and this does, it doesn't feel like a 70s movie at all, but it does feel kind of fearless in making you uncomfortable and making you not really, definitely not love your, the hero that Robert Pattinson is playing. I mean, he's, he's a real dipshit in the movie. And you know, she's a flawed person who has thought about some terrible things, but the reasons that she's thought about them are not overexplained, but you can have empathy for them if you step back from your outrage, which is something that a lot of Hines characters not able to do. Obviously, and she's like also one of the great villains who did the movies this year like that character that she places. I think it's terrible. Somehow transcended even just her normal, famous personality. Yeah. Like the, the, the memes that propagated from her sideline at the Knicks game along these character lines is frankly amazing for someone of her like social footprint. That's great. I don't know any, and what other thoughts do we have about the drama? I think Brave is kind of the right word for me with a lot of this movie, like the idea that you can turn someone making like the school shooter confession tape into like, I need to update my firmware or whatever, DAG, just, just the gall with which it makes you and makes you want to laugh at every time Zentea does finger guns or makes a comment along these lines and rewards kind of the repeat like viewing and visiting of this movie. I don't know what to call that, if not brave, like I don't know a lot of movies that are operating with that kind of goal. It's, I mean, a goal. It's a little edge already, too, but just enough that I was intrigued by it and I think their performances and the set dressing, I mean, literally, I guess, but everything else around it really does back it up so that when the script is needling you, it's just far enough. Yeah. How are we feeling about their apartment? They're flat. Incredible production design. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really, really good stuff. There's no relationship to the city of Boston that I know of and also I did do some math on their salaries and how that's connecting to what's going on there. But I mean, listen, you know, just like maybe there's an insinuation that he's of some privilege. Well, sure. He, you know, he's a museum curator, of course, but I've never seen a back splash that stylish in a movie ever. I think it's exiled. It's beautiful. I don't know what that is. Yeah. It sounds good. You're on the drama. It's, you know, it's I really liked it. It's a wonderful movie. What was the song? Ultimately, because when you and I podcasted about it, you said that the cut you saw had a different song. So when I saw the film, which was quite early, the song that played at the end of the movie was Frank Sinatra's, they can't take that away from me, which is an amazing song, which is one of the, and it's an, it's an ode to a person who has a lot of eccentricities. And, you know, the lyrics of the song, like for example, let me see if I can clock some of this. There are many crazy things that will keep me loving you. And with your permission, may I list a few, the way you wear your hat, the way you sip your tea, the memory of all that, no, no, they can't take that away from me. It is a song of acceptance that plays beautifully over that final scene. But I don't think that that's the song that played at the end of the movie when it opened in movie theaters. What was the song that played at the end? Not even sure what it was. I'm, I am googling it now because it's the same one that she puts on to make him dance, right? Is it forget about by civil bear? This is what the internet is telling me. I think it's forget about and not this Sinatra song, which not maybe not stunning that the Sinatra state would not want to be associated with this film in some way. Probably possible. Maybe it's just too expensive or whatever, but I went out of the movie in this like little pocket state of glee when I heard that song, which is such a perfect little end note. And I think forget about, is it more of a more sincere maybe? Yeah, maybe. So again, that can be played ironically at the end. That's true. You don't think the Sinatra song is sincere enough in terms of what is gesturing at? I just think Sinatra's vocal tone has a really like insinuating elbow in your chest quality to it that fits very nicely with this, but all right. Well, Rob Bohoney. Great stuff. Thanks for having me. Thanks for stealing this from Amanda in my pleasure, genuinely. Okay, joining us now, producer, Jack Sanders, throwing on his punditry hat to talk about the best movie of 2026. I miss Mousy hat. That's right. So who is Miss Mousy and what is your choice? I'm choosing Blue Heron, a really beautiful film by Sophie Romvari, you know, usually to pull back the curtain. I am left with the last of the scraps, right? And I look at my letter box list, my best of 2026, and I'm like, okay, my ninth favorite movie is available. And this time it just so worked out that I actually got my favorite movie of the year. Wow. That's beautiful. I watched it last night, and I'm really glad that I did because I don't want to undersell like, this is a really special movie. Like a really genuinely amazing accomplishment. Like honestly, Borderline feels like a miracle to me. You know, Romvari first time feature filmmaker obviously has been making shorts before. This is a real step above, I would say, and also she takes like a really, really big risk not to spoil anything, and I think it asks a lot of the audience, but I think the filmmaking and the storytelling is so good that she has built so much good will for you to like go on the adventure with her to like, I trust you, I trust this filmmaker. And yeah, I mean, it's just, it's an amazing movie. It's a great accomplishment. So I did talk to Sophie on the show, and we talked about it a little bit, but you know, I've been opening kind of around the country and around the world sort of slowly over the last couple of months. Can you put a little bit of context around the story, and kind of how to understand, because it's a bit of an unusual structure? Sure. I mean, it basically follows this small family in Vancouver Island, I believe. And there is a mother and a father, and there are four children, but one of these children, his name is Jeremy, is from just the mother side, and he is a troublemaker. He is a very troubled person. He's a very difficult person. I know one of the reasons I connect this film, I think you said this was Sophie, it's like everybody kind of has a Jeremy in their life. And the first half of the movie is really just examining their dynamics, how this young boy plays a role into potentially fracturing, like these parents' marriage, how it affects his other young siblings, the dynamic between the parents and their children, not just between themselves. And it's just a really, really thorough examination of how do you navigate a relationship with a person who like poses a question that you just simply don't have an answer to, right? like a person who is. incurable, unknowable. And I think that Rumbari makes a really smart choice that is effective to me, which is like Jeremy needs to be a mystery to the audience as much as he is to the actual family. Right. Right. Like you cannot really get into his head because that's what it's like having a person in your life like this. So I don't know was that enough context? No, I think so. I mean, obviously the film in the second half takes kind of a structural turn after I think very kind of gently, and sometimes obliquely framing the crisis of this family. It's not always so overt. Yes and no. I mean, you know, it is experimental or non-traditional storytelling as well. But to Jack's point, the first half of the film is about a kid who's having a hard time, as we would say, in Montessori, parlance. That's right. And the film very definitely positions the younger sister as the, the stand-in for the audience and the observer. And so you're focused enough on this younger character and you're, you're supposed to, you do understand as you're watching it, that you're watching it through her eyes. You're, you're trying to figure it out in that mystery that Jack talked about it from her eyes, that when it pivots to her perspective in an older way, it is, it's a change. It's not quote-unquote traditional, traditional film structure. But you're completely equipped to understand what's going on. And you have been positioned in her, in her perspective so deeply that I find it is both unexpected and also plays really naturally from an emotional review. Yeah. I think there was a really clever moment that I remember rewatching the film last night, because you know, like as much as this is a movie about like childhood trauma and navigating these relationships, it's also just like formally about memory. Like how do we remember things? And there's this scene where Sasha is learning to peel potatoes for the first time with her mother and she is basically explaining to her, to my estimation, how do other people outside of their family perceive Jeremy? Right? Like how do people think of him, their family and talk about him and like, as a young person, that's a very difficult idea to conceptualize and understand. And it's this very long shot that's just on sticks and it's of Sasha's mother peeling the potatoes and her hands are just covered in potatoes. And the dialogue between them is it's a long conversation of them going back and forth and explaining and it just stays on her hands with the potatoes, which I thought was so clever because it's like that is how you remember things, right? Like you attach certain experiences to other ideas and stories and she probably remembers that moment because of that experience she shared with her mother. So there's plenty of like clever filmmaking tricks that she uses in the film that just like stack on top of on top of each other that I found really successful. Yeah, one of the ones that really clicked for me that I cited when I talked to Sophie was the sound design of the movie is so amazing. The idea of just like hearing the box of cereal sliding across the kitchen table in the morning and creates like a real sense of unease and the whole, you know, the Jeremy character creates a sense of unease in this household. But there's also just the kind of common work of day, this is the noisiness of a family full of children and they're just just managing a family full of children is a lot of work. Even if you're not dealing with some emotional struggles and there's another scene that I haven't seen a movie in a few months now. But one that jumped out to me too is this long conversation between the mother and father after the mother has had a conversation with one of the therapists and she has been suggesting a certain sort of like clarification or classification for what Jeremy is struggling with and the mother is just like, this is not it. This is they're wrong about my son, which is such a familiar thing. I remember having plenty of experiences like that growing up where my parents were just like trying to reject a professional's perspective on their life and their family and there's something so kind of maddening about that when only you understand something. But that's also shielding yourself from something maybe you even don't understand about your own offspring or your own relatives or something very sensitive movie. Great choice. Very excited to see what Sophie does next. Anything else you want to add about Blue Herne? I mean, just on a personal note, it was like I walked out of the theater and genuinely felt inspired. Like, remembered why I went to film school and like to say that it, you know, there are amazing movies that come out to say that this feels more attainable is absolutely silly and foolish and I don't actually believe that but that's like the closest way I can articulate it where I see like a first-time feature filmmaker collaborating with people they've worked with in the past on shorts and it's in a genre I really respect and it feels within touching distance. The movie that also reminded me of was After Son and I always remember After Son not to bring up that debate. But I remember seeing it and I was like, I'm so curious to see what Charlotte Wells does next. You know, like a super, super personal story. How do they broaden out what's their next project? We still haven't seen anything. I still would be super curious to see what she does next but I feel the same exactly with Rumbari where whatever is next season tickets I'm very excited and curious to see what she does. Great pick. Thanks, Jack. Thanks guys. Okay, Amanda, it's your turn. Yes. How are you feeling? You feel like all your picks have been taken away from you? No, I feel good. I jumped in. I did try to let people take first pick and Rob Mahoney did his thing but obsession was on the table long enough that I was like, no, no, I would like to talk about this and to talk about the phenomenon as well as the movie since it just kind of keeps trucking. Well, over $300 million. Which is just amazing and fantastic and we talked with Van about how this is not a movie that I normally see. This is a horror movie and you, even at some point, were saying this is like a very gnarly traditional horror movie which I historically am not into. And usually don't go see but because this was such a phenomenon, I went. And so I loved it. And I thought that it worked in ways that had nothing to do with it being like a very gnarly horror movie even though it was, I guess, though for me personally is someone who thinks I'm afraid and I don't like gross outs and I don't like creepy things and I don't want to do whatever like that horror thing is. It was a good education in, oh, I'm wrong and like maybe I can handle it and maybe that's not what's turning me off the genre or maybe that's not, you know, that I just kind of have like a misunderstanding of what's waiting for me. And that has sort of been an education over the last few years, especially I know that elevated horror is like a bad word or a bad phrase in the community. But the Jordan Peele's and the Ari Astors of the world and it becoming a little more art house and a little less slasher I guess is has made me realize that the genre can be broader and that there is more to it than just really like really awesome kills. And I do feel like the conversation among like the true horror heads is often at some point just about like the technical aspects of the kills, which is its own art form. But he has a brand of that conversation for sure. Right. And so I think and I think that those of us who are outside the genre often think that that's just really all that it is and that all that can be taken seriously. And so for me, it's been learning, oh, that there can, you know, there can be more to it and that there can be as there is art in creating the tension and the sense of unease and the psychological thriller aspect of it. And that also that there are ways to do jump scares and grow stuff that don't interest me and ways that compel me. And I honestly like the thing about obsession that was so revelatory is that I thought it was very funny. And every time it got me, one of the horror tropes got me, I started laughing as a reaction. And not because I was like nervous laughter, I just thought it was a very clever and funny. And I was like, oh, you did it. And you engineered this whole sort of thing. This is exactly what I do in many horror movies. Yes. But but you do understand when you were like when everyone's like talking about like saw seven and blah, blah, blah, and the and even this slasher movies, even like the movies that scream parodies communicate just something different in terms of what, you know, what the goals are or what a quote unquote horror fan is going into a movie to see. That's why again, scream is sort of like inter, you know, an intermediating it and explaining it to people who don't get it and adding comedy. I guess I part of it is just that I also really like comedy and horror movies. Yeah, I think I think a little bit of what you're responding to. I could be wrong about this, but my impression of it is because of how old we are. The 80s and the 90s are really the domain of Friday the 13th. Yeah. And I'm Iron Elm Street, you know, that, that brand of teen sleep way camp slasher movie defined the genre for about 10 to 15 years. And so if you're a young person coming of age and you're looking at Friday the 13th, the new beginning and you're like, I don't want to see that. That's just a guy in a hockey mask stabbing new bile 19 year old girls. And that I can see why that would be unappealing as a young person when you're getting involved in the genre. The genre is very wide and it encompasses a lot of different styles, most of which are not very popular to the mainstream, you know, movie going audience on a regular basis. But this kind of tension filled nightmarish romantic movie. Yes. Like it's like fatal attraction as well, you know, which is a kind of different kind of horror film and doesn't feature a one-wish willow and a more supernatural element, but it has that same fear of the opposite sex and the relationships and sex and all these things. - When we did the '87 draft, I tried to do fatal attraction in horror and I made the case that the scene with the roller coaster and the baby is like venturing into it. Certainly like lifetime horror. - Yeah. - But I understand that it's more thriller. I don't know though, the jump scare and obsession when a spoiler alert for obsession. The friend is in the car and they're about to, you know, confess their love to each other and then the indennaver ready character shows up. And so I was genuinely startled and then the smashing the head so many times into the steering wheel that it's not gross anymore. It's just extra. - It's a really good shout because I think that sequence for people who don't watch a lot of horror movies is incredibly effective. If you've seen a lot of horror movies, the mid they got in the car, I was like, she's dead. Like I just knew because I've just seen a million movies like that. So like there's a grammar to those movies and I don't, I say that not to criticize that at all. I think that's one of the great things. - You weren't startled when she showed up. - There's something that just got like that. - The way that it's shot, yeah. And the way that the sound is edited, like it gets you to jump. But there was never a moment where I thought Sam was gonna make it through that scene. - Right, right, right. But also the extension of the death is intentional and it says something about the attitude of the movie and the way that it's crafted that I thought was funny. And - I agree with you. - I felt a little more in on the joke with this movie than I do with many horror movies. I felt more like included, I guess. - Yeah, I think Curry Barker's training, making TikToks and YouTube videos and trying to pursue engagement on social media taught him a lot about what our primal instincts are as viewers and what are the things that we respond to and he's just got a real knack for it. I'm really glad you picked it. I'm really glad you went out and saw it. I didn't like assign it to you. You just want to check it out on your own 'cause you wanted to know what it was all about. But I'm not surprised that you liked it. It has some, we've compared it like, it's financial success to stuff like the sixth sense, but it does have that like a new person has arrived. - Totally. - There are a really strong voice. They have a real handle on how to get audiences excited. And, you know, Indy Navarady is just giving this Titanic performance, this like career announcing performance in the movie that I suspect we'll be talking about for the rest of the year. So great pick, I love it. Love the movies, if you hadn't picked this, I probably would have found a way to pick it as well. I picked Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie, which has pretty much been my movie the year all year. And it's a movie that I've seen in theaters three times. And I saw it last year at a fan event, and I was strongly encouraged to check it out. As a fan, I was a fan of the web series, but I wouldn't say I was a super fan. I'd seen it, but I didn't, it was not encyclopedic with it, but I'm a super fan of Matt Johnson's. I think he's just one of the most interesting creative, dynamic, weird people working in the movies today. And everything that he does has just turned the dial one degree past where you normally expect this movie, which is ostensibly about two guys and an aspiring band trying to get booked to the show at the Rivaly, which is a modestly sized pub Toronto. - That's just sorry, I just remembered jokes for a minute, instead of laughing. - It's a very great, many good jokes. You just had the opportunity to recommend it to Van Leath, and I can't wait to hear what he thinks about it. It's an absurdist comedy that is filmed in a very grounded way. Titt Barrow's liberally from back to the future. It is a movie of regret in a movie of teamwork, a movie of pop stardom, a movie of extraordinary memes. Also very much a movie about looking back at yourself and who you used to be and who you are now. And I found some of that stuff quite poignant, especially the second and third time I watched it, the 2008 versions of Jay and Matt, and interacting with their former selves and all the wonderful, if you haven't seen this movie, you gotta check it out, I think it's streaming now. But I think it is, like a lot of the best picks on this episode, simultaneously very silly and very deep, you know, like a furious disclosure day, masters of the universe, back rooms, the drama, obsession. You know, these are pretty goofy movies. - Yes. - In a lot of their scripting and their premises, but they're really making sense to your efforts to communicate something at the bottom of people's guts about how they feel about the world or how they feel the world is treating them. And even though Nirvana is probably the silliest of them all. - I guess. - No, maybe not sillier than masters of the universe. - Yeah, maybe not sillier. And also, you know, Nirvana is very, very specific and it's jokes, as is Mattie's secret in its own way. - That's true, Mattie's secret also very silly. - Right, but with real depth. - Yeah, so it's been a good year. I feel like. - I mean, these are all interesting movies. None of them actively bad, except for maybe masters of the universe. - And I'll have to defend it. I won't fully defend it. But like, and they're from all different places, right? - Yeah. - Some big studio movies, some big IP movies, some from hallowed filmmakers, some from first-time filmmakers, some very independent-minded, some out of nowhere successes. Yeah, to say I'm feeling great about the year, the year of movie so far. - It's wonderful. I spent this weekend just fielding text messages from friends and civilians with random opinions on some of the movies on this list, some movies not on this list, some, you know. - What's the most brutal cut that we've had here? - Well, I realized about halfway through the Devil Wars part of two is not on this list, but I think that's correct. I had a nice time, how's it going at coach? And, you know, your beloved toy story five, not here. - No, you know, let's do a little check-in on where I think I'm at with my top five right now. - Okay. - Right now, I've got Blue Heron and Nirvana at the top of the pile. And now I've got 28 years later, the Bone Temple, my war number three, the Christian Petzold film, is at number four, and Sam Raimi's send help. Which I think is maybe the biggest omission from this episode for me. - Sure, yes, that's a good one. - A movie I love, Toy Story Five would be up there. - These are just movies that have- - Just closure day. - Have been released. - 90 Secret, yep, these are all movies. - Yeah, so not movies we saw it can. - Yeah, this is only just, yes. That's how I usually how I do it. I like Mother Mary quite a bit. I like Project Tell Mary quite a bit. Tuner was a film I loved from this year. But yeah, stuff like Fjord and Josephine from Sundance, which that'll be an interesting episode for us. That was more of that discussion. Not sure if you're gonna enjoy that one. Paper Tiger, you know, all of a sudden club kid, those, once upon a time in Harlem, a lot of good stuff coming for the second. We haven't even seen the Odyssey. We haven't seen Spider-Man. We haven't seen the live-action Moana. I know you're really saving space for that. - Non-live-action Moana. I have not seen it, but I will with my son before Moana, I'm gonna do it. I was not of the age where I needed to see Moana, but can I tell you what I told you, but I'll tell everyone else this weekend we did Ponyo and Totoro with both kids and Si, the baby now says cat bus, whenever you say to Toro, which is- - It was like conic scenes in movie history. - He just loves the cat bus and Knox was wrapped and I was also wrapped, loved it. So I'm like, we're getting there. Just you can, you know, Moana will have its time in the side. - Consider the coconut. - I've heard about that. - Consider its leaves. - Yeah. - The island gives us what we need. - That's beautiful. - And no one leaves. - Okay. - That's poetry. That's Lin-Manuel Miranda's poetry. That's all waiting for you. You're very lucky to be able to see that film for the first time. Okay, let's go to my conversation now with John Early. Very happy to be here with John Early. Hi, John. I didn't know that you were such a cinephile and such a aspirant movie director. I've been a fan of your work as an actor and comedy for a while. - Thank you. - But I had one clue. And so when I saw the movie, it clicked. And I haven't heard you talk about this yet, but when Vityet's on the East Side opened a few years ago, I hosted a screening of a new leaf Elaine Hayes movie. - I was there. - And I saw you in Kate there. - Yes. - And I didn't say anything. I didn't want to be weird. But I was like, oh, that's so nice. But they're here. And I love that movie and I love Elaine May. - I've never seen it. Okay. - You were responsible for my first viewing. - Well, that's nice. But I thought even of Elaine May. And I want to ask you about all the myriad influences that you have on this film. And you've been very eloquent about them in the press run for Maddie Secret. But something clicked with me where I was like, John's the kind of person who would check out a new leaf on a Tuesday at 7 p.m. I mean, it's the only activity I ever have in mind is just to check, you know, RevivalHubLA.com or a New York screen slate. And just see what's playing. I don't know. That's what I like to do. - Did you always want to make films? Was that always something that was a goal of yours? - Yes, yes. And I just want to be, I want to put correct the record. My xenophilia is so narrow. It's so limited. And I've put all of those, like, my favorite movies are all in Maddie Secret. So like, there's nothing left. If I make a new movie, I'm gonna. have to develop an entirely new personality. - Well, it's deep and maybe not wide, but it's very deep. - Yes, it is deep, it is deep. And I feel like you've been talking about it how you were literally looking at the movies that connected with you in a very primal way and tried to transfigure that into your own work. Like, what's the first movie that you saw that made you shiver quake just in my life? - Yeah, I've talked about this a lot, so I really apologize to anyone who's, this is, you know, anyone who's heard me talking about this before, but Clockwatchers, the Jill Sprecker movie, it just did actually have a very profound effect on me, like a real time effect, not like a retro active, like, oh, that did change my life. I actually felt a kind of existential shift as I was watching it as like an 11 year old. It has, it's a very bleak movie, and I felt like there was no turning back after it. Like I knew, like I learned a little too much about the future of my life and of the world, and I was like, oh, no, but I was, I was just, it really rocked me, I don't know. - What led to you seeing that movie at 11? - Well, I loved going to Blockbuster. You know, the classic routine was like, my mom would drop me off of Blockbuster, as she shopped for groceries. And it was, and I would, and I would always go to the special intersection, obviously, because that's where the game will be for. (laughs) But that's also where the little Sundance recommends. - Right. - The section was. (laughs) And kind of a neat little like row of movies that are all inside of your movie, right? Sort of like '90s indie Sundance plus queer cinema. - Yes. - All in the one, the smallest section. - The one last shot. - Yeah. And you know, and I would have to pretend like I wasn't looking at that stuff. I would kind of like do a little drive by the way, and soon starting to pick, you know, 'cause you couldn't stay for too long or everyone would know. But Clock Watchers was there, and I was very drawn to the Sikudro, and still am. I mean, I was totally bewitched by her as a kid. And she's on the cover of that movie. And it's seen in Parker Posey was too. And I didn't, I know Lana U-Bock, who was in the Brady much movie, which is also a huge influence for Maddie's TV. - Great movie, yeah. - It's such a good movie. And I didn't know Tony Gillette shockingly. Well, not shockingly for an 11-year-old in like 1988, you know. But anyway, but I just rented it expecting some sort of, kind of Romeo Michel, kind of variation on Romeo Michel. And it just, I don't know, I found it. It totally, it was so haunting. I don't know, I, and then I fell in love with Tony Gillette and the rest is herstery. - Do you remember seeing that movie and movies like that at that time thinking about how a movie was made or like what were you beyond the experience of the performers you really liked or were clicking with at that time? Did you have a brain for who directed this? How did they do it? What does a camera look like and how does it operate? - Well, it's funny because it's before the internet was what it is now where like there wasn't even an option of just like immediately googling something, you know. - I remember having that same feeling. - Where do I go to figure out what happened here? - Yeah, like get the microfiche out. Like I was trying, there was kind of nothing to be done. So that the desire to like know about, that is something that's kind of sad to me about this moment is that like movies don't even have time to just exist as their own kind of magical object. They're, they're immediately ripped apart. But before they even, they're ripped apart before they come out. I mean, I had to like email the crew. I felt like such a crank. But I was like when they announced that we got into Toronto International Film Festival opening night discovery program. - The light goes off. By the way, I'm like directing camera turns the light off. It's like you, I'm not allowed to mug that hard. But anyway, no bits here. Yeah, this is a serious film conversation. Hold it together. But when we went to Tiff, they like, when people started putting out these pictures and it's so sweet because they're just, they're proud of the movie they worked on there. And, but I immediately felt this thing. Like we're just like hemorrhaging the mystery of this. The, you know, and to me, this movie particularly has a lot of, it has like a, we were trying to make a magical kind of quality. It's like, to me, Maddie is like a magic trick. She's like an illusion that we all worked so hard on. And, and so I felt sad about seeing me with like a cold brew in the sides and be like, you know, like in the, like I just, you mean like on-set stuff, that was sick, yeah. But anyway, but I, I just think things get like unpacked so quickly that your references, you get kind of surveilled before the movies even come out about all your references. And it does feel like surveillance. It's very bizarre. - It's a, it's maybe like a two meta tributary, but there is something really interesting about that though, because the film is so almost overloaded with this collision of ideas of stuff that we've seen before. And like some of it is stuff that will be recognizable to your mainstream audience. Some of it is very synophilia. Some of it is very like, if you're between the ages of 32 and 50, and you've got a chance to watch television movies in the 1990s. And like, so I'm curious as somebody who like was coming up with the ideas for the film and then actively making it, like do you want it to still have that scavenger hunt feeling even though you do want to maintain the spell? 'Cause as soon as you start picking apart the influences, the spell also gets a little broken, I think. - Yes, I agree. I mean, I, the references were really helpful to me, you know, in just building it. And I am, unfortunately, I am a kind of like many gay men but for me, I'm a very devotional person and artist. And so I could talk about the references forever. That's what sucks is that I can't stop. Like, and this is the way the media ecosystem of like promoting a film right now. It's just like, it's actually secretly perversely a thrill for me to like talk about the references. - And it's a thrill for me to hear people like you talk about it so invariably what you get is this conversation. - Well, I love Todd Haynes and I also love this lifetime movie and I love this and I think we all really enjoy that and we feel like maybe we can unlock even more of your artistry, but then the slippery slope is, I think Maddie's secret is very singular. - Thank you. - There's not, I've never seen a movie like it. - Thank you. - Even though it's like a lot of other movies, which is an unusual thing to do. So like, at the risk of a vague question, how do you do that then? How do you metastasize all of this stuff that you love and then try to make something unique? - Well, I can't really tell you. I mean, I, 'cause it's copyrighted. I'm kidding. We're really excited. No, I, it's just mysterious. I don't, the truth is I think looking back on what I did on what just happened over the past two years. Actually, this isn't even a retro, this isn't me. This is something I actually knew quite consciously. I think that the, the, the, the kind of supermarket sweep style of grabbing at all these references was a way to hide. I mean, it was, I thought I was protecting myself. Like, I was writing something before this movie that I found almost too adult and intimate and like, and I didn't feel smart enough. I might, I might never be smart enough to, to write it, but I was, it was like kind of freaking me out and I was like, I don't know if I'm ready to do this. And I was like, I just want to do something fun first. Let me do something like outrageous and fun and like cheap and in, in my mind, at that time, kind of experimental. In other words, I was like, let me make something that I was like, no one's ever gonna see. So like, I can make, like, make something so, like with my friends, so low budget that like, it probably will just never have a life. And now, and I felt kind of protected by that. I wanted to make something kind of in private. And, and I started just really making it brazenly, like very pasty. It just was like, it was like, it's, it's reference in this. And there's dance man, you know, like, and this friends in it. This really, you know, and, and I, I think I thought that, I very naively thought that if I, if I constructed this crazy patchwork quilt, this like Frankenstein of references, that I could somehow avoid, you know, doing them more, like the, the, the kind of personal project that I was working on. And then it ended up actually being hugely personal. Like it just, it just felt suddenly as I was writing it. I was like, this is so interesting. This is like, I'm tapping it. I'm like, I'm like, completely just doing this like movie by numbers. I'm like following the rules of this genre. I'm, you know, I, this shouldn't be personal. And yet, That's, it's just such a funny thing about being an artist. It's like, you, and about being a human being is you just reveal. You cannot help but reveal. It is especially when you try not to. - Yeah. - You end up leaking out all over the place and I really was trying to just make something fun. And then I was like, uh-oh. - My experience watching it was 45 minutes in. I was like, oh, I got it. Like I got, I get the idea. I get the fusion, I'm seeing the references, at least some of the references. And then by the end of it, I was like, I feel it. I feel that this was, and this is a very sincere movie. - Yeah. - And not at all. You know, I know you've talked about David Wayne and there's certainly some of his progenitors in sort of like, I guess, satire or parody or something like that. - Yeah. - But then I feel like the movie never really commits to that. I feel like you can feel the inspiration but it's a pretty deep movie about a person in crisis. - Yeah. - And not winking at you at all. And I'm curious like, was it, you have to like, write through to get to that place where you're deciding that that is the kind of movie that you're making. And also how much are you communicating that about like raising money? And 'cause it's probably hard to get a movie that is this kind of odd duck of influences, financed and trying to make sure that like, convincing people like, I'm gonna make sure that this is all balanced and it's all gonna play. - Well, I think I had to convince people that it's kind of sincerity because of the subject matter, people, the financiers, I think would have been terrified had I been like, no, we're just having a ball. We're, you know, it's a free for all. Like, I, I knew that there needed to be this like spine of commitment. And that was just what I wanted artistically. But I knew I had to kind of really reassure people that that was the case. And it was like shockingly, I mean, 'cause again, we were working at very low budget levels. So, but it's, it was still given the subject matter and given the kind of central conceit of me playing Maddie. It was amazing though how quickly people jumped on board. And I think that's because I really, for all of its, oddness, strangeness, I did try to write something traditionally entertaining. Like that was, that was a goal of mine. I wanted to make something that was like, that pulled you through, it was propulsive. It was like, like a dream or like a fairy tale, you know? And so it was, and I really, really wanted to make something very blunt and direct and something that was like, like the emotions and the filmmaking were very blunt and directing clear and not viby or cool. - Why? - You know, I was that important to you. - Well, I think a lot of, I have a lot of rage about this, I guess, but I think a lot of art across the board, music, film, TV, those are the only three forms of art, as you know? - Yes, on the only one's the knowledge on the show. - Yeah. - They are, you know, I feel like there's just been a, you know, look, you see it most clearly in songs. Songs very rarely these days actually follow a kind of chorus. I mean, I mean, verse pre-chorus, chorus, like, bridge. - Chorus. - You know, like there's like a, I always say like the smear. Like you can see it in films that have like digital effects. - Yes. - And this sort of like, there's like a haze around a certain kind of pop music. - Yes. - I know what you mean. - Yes. - There's an ambient quality to so much of, yeah. And then when you hear like an Abba song, you're like, oh, right, right. And I don't know. I, I, I, I forgot what the question was. - You were trying to do something direct, which I appreciate. - Yes, yes. - And I just, I also think there's like such pressure in the culture for a while now because of social media. And like take culture, like hot takes. There's just been, there's been, there's such a pressure to be smart and to, to know exactly what you're doing and for every, and then, and then also with all this like reference letter box criterion, like shit, it's like, it's like, there's such pressure for everything to be so researched and studied. And for you to have a perfectly, you know, to articulate your vision purposely. And like, I just really was like, I think there's possibly something very, it was exciting to me to not be concerned about those things. And also, look, these are all, this is like a high mind away of talking about it to me. It was like the character. Like Maddie is very sincere. She's a dork, you know, in some ways, she's not a cool girl. She's a tri-herd. - She sees herself as does Emily, as a tri-herd Suzy O'Maker. An example of mine, incredibly nuanced writing. But like, you know, I don't know. I just, I'm so, I think we live in a very blunted moment. You know, everyone, there's like a kind of way that people talk here and at least favorite thing. - Yeah, yeah. - And, and I don't know. Everyone seems so fucking depressed and I just, I wanted to make something that was like kind of cutting through the ambience and, yeah. I talked to Olivia Wilde yesterday in a new movie and I was asking her about directing herself and how unusual that must be. - Yes, for God. Can you talk about your experience, especially given the performance that you were giving? - Yeah, oh, it was very odd. I mean, I've done it a lot in a way. You know, I've made my own work for a very long time. And so I'm quite accustomed to just kind of like, is this so annoying, this bracelet? - No, it looks great. - Your fans aren't mad. - I mean, they're always mad. Not at you, though, so don't worry. But I'm very accustomed to like kind of just like getting what I need for myself, you know? And like, and giving a lot of options, I'm very accustomed like editing myself and I don't get to, you know, cut up and how horrible. - 'Cause the movie is kind of about this. This is why I ask, and this like transition that Maddie is making to a kind of forward-facing role in our wonderful content society of which you were currently participating in. And so I was wondering if maybe like some of your life as somebody who makes stuff and is maybe directing yourself in a very overt way and has to look at yourself all the time. And then having a character who is deciding to do that choice and like, on the one hand seems very like made for it. - Yes, yes. - Right, like before it, and on the other hand, it creates like a sort of crisis in her and sends her down a very dark path in her life. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, I. Did I get that right? - No, you were totally yourself entirely right now. (laughing) - I have a very similar reluctance, you know. I have like, I feel like very unhyp in many ways. And I maybe value, or maybe. I'm maybe desperately trying to hold on to something that you can't even grip on to anymore. It's like a kind of privacy integrity, I don't know. I really relate to, Maddie is very much an extension of me in that way. And. I mean, I don't know, I think I'm stronger than, I mean, I think Maddie is stronger than me, period. But maybe in this way, this particular way, I'm quite used, I'm very accustomed to just like, putting myself on camera and watching myself and not getting too freaked out. By the way, I look and, you know, I certainly don't often don't love the way I look on camera, but also I'm a funny person. Like, I'm always like, let's get uglier. Come on, like, let's, you know. - Different standards. - Yes, yes. - So, yeah, I don't remember. - Would you like level set with people on set? Would you say like, am I doing this right? You know, do you need like someone to kind of backstab you, you know? 'Cause when you're the director, you're the answer of all the questions, right? - Well, I had some very important people on set with me. I had the cinematographer, Max Lackner, who was such a huge part of all this, obviously. But, you know, he really, really understood everything quite deeply. He's also literally training to be a psychoanalyst. So there was always a kind of, I don't know. It was, I felt, he brought an extra layer of kind of like compassion and psychological nuance to all of our discussions. And he really was, I think, a protector of the, he just totally understood the kind of like, bounciness of the movie, you know, the kind of buoyancy of like the tone and so he did a great job of like making sure that, I was keeping it up. And then my ex-boyfriend, Gordon Landonberger, who we had been not in a relationship for years at this point, but he's the production designer. And me and Max and Gordon were all friends, and we worked very informally on this movie without getting paid before pre-production started. We're living together for a couple weeks, even before pre-production. And Gordon and I know each other very intimately, and he knows certainly understands certain kind of performance and securities I have. And so he was actually, he was incredible kind of emotional support, which is absolutely something that a director has to do, whether they tyrannically avoid doing it or not. But like, anyway, so it was, but all in all, it was incredibly lonely. It was psychological torture. I couldn't believe I was doing it to myself. I was shocked. And when I was editing the movie and I was watching footage of myself, I mean, I had a day in editing where I was like, I had to leave and go home and I was like burst into tears. I was watching myself direct myself in a very important dramatic scene where I like basically crumble to the floor and weep. And I was watching myself do like six or seven takes in a row where I'm like, crying on the floor and then going like, cut and then standing up and then being like, waiting for someone to go. And it was like, and you could see me realizing real time that like, that's me. That's my job. No one's coming for you. No one's coming. Yeah. No one's going to come rub my back or like, and everyone was so sweet. No one was being cold. They just didn't know what I needed that, you know, that's a very intimate thing between the director and actor. And I felt very exposed and I felt like I was doing this totally crazy thing. I felt kind of insane that I'm like, playing this girl in this treatment center and it's like getting this heavy and, you know, I just like, I don't know, but I, but watching myself, watching that one person dynamic in the editing room was like very confronting for me. And it also made me feel very close to Maddie. And I was like, because you know, Maddie is so self-made. She was like, not to give anything away, but like, you know, she did not have a great childhood. And she's like, kind of built herself up. She was such strength, you know, and, and I, I don't know. I just really was like, I, I, it was like very profound. It was like, it was like a moment deep into poster. I was like, oh, this movie is like, again, it's like in some ways started from this like, really kind of goofy, these goofy instincts and then became totally, totally shockingly personal. And the process had this meta quality, absorbing the movie and real and, and the movie was absorbing real life. And it was just, it was, I don't know, I want to ask you a little bit about that and sort of like that the specific tone that you're trying to strike and, and meet that feeling. So there's an amazing sequence in the film or Kristen Johnson who plays her mother comes in for a kind of like a psychotherapy conversation. And that scene, I feel like it kind of brings all of the things together simultaneously. It is like John Waters and Tennessee Williams and Lifetime, right, like all at the same moment. Yeah. It's precious. Absolutely. It's Tennessee Williams. Yes. Oh, you already said it. Suddenly last summer, Marney. Right. Yeah, Marney. Right. Here I go. Here I go with my references. Um, but it is a scene that I think a lot of people myself include a kind of struggle to describe where like it's not camp, but it's not hypersincere and it is funny, but it is emotionally powerful. And there is this like nether zone. Yeah. Of tone. Yeah. Totally. And I don't really, I've maybe never known how to talk about it. Yeah. And maybe, and you conjured it. Right. You made a movie that has it. Yeah. So how do you, how did you do that? That's another thing where that, that scene, it's kind of is profunded to your word. It is. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, you, you're not describing yourself as profound. No. No. No. No. No. Um, I can do it if you want. If you want me to say the word, I can say the word. No. This is just the cool thing about making anything is like again, like the, the, the, just, the power of the unconscious mind. It's really crazy. Like, but I was, you know, because again, I was just going for this kind of like, uh, hysterical in the Freudian sense, um, something last summer, big, final, like explosion of the trauma that, you know, and I, that's a trope that I actually, like, typically, like, I hate it. I, I find it totally cheap and like, um, and it's a part in movie, TV movies plays. Where I just get a little bored where I go, right, the puzzle piece of this is what explains the previous behavior, you know, and, and, and that, the kind of bluntness of that, I think is what I find inherently funny about it too. I don't know. Um, it's also kind of interesting to me that we clearly have been in a, for many, many years now in a, a, a moment where there's actually a much more like kind of cool version of that. I mean like, but it's, but it's, it's, it's passing itself off as like smarter and more of all. Therapy is trauma core. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. And, um, and there was something kind of naughty and really fun to me about like exposing what that. Contemporary thing is it's like, it's like, you're not doing anything new, honey. Like I love doing this years ago. And guess what he was doing. It was so much more flair. And guess what? A fucking sense of humor. He, there's no way Tennessee Williams doesn't think suddenly last summer is funny. There's no way, there's no way, it's, it's so absurd, the, the big privilege anyway. That being so, so I found myself making this thing with like, which, where the climax was this like trope that I like actively don't like to watch. Which is another thing we're like, what are you doing, John, turn the car around. But you know, I don't know. Then I just kind of gave over to it and I found it all incredibly moving. And like, I, and I found making the connections between Maddie's behavior in her past. Like very deep and, and straight forward, it's, it's an easy thing to track. I liked the easiness of it. But when I was editing it, I was like, I just was like, oh my god, these two shots of me and Kristen Johnston sitting there, like, I was like, it's me divided into, it's like, you have Maddie, who is like the gooey center of me, the like the aching, longing, yearning sincere child. And then you have Kristen, who is the, the kind of, I don't know, the, the, this counteracting force that's like always trying to kind of burst the bubble and laugh and be naughty and, and try to ex, like, expose, I don't know, like hollow piety or hurt or, you know, like harsh truths. Yeah. Yeah. And, and to have a good time, you know, and like, and I was like, that's, I was like, it's me. It's just me. It's, it's, it's the two sides of me and then, and the why that was interesting to me was because I was like, and that's the movie itself is like, the movie is always putting those two things next to each other and making them try to get along. It's like YouTube behave. You know, like you, like you're going to figure it out, like you guys, you have to like negotiate and figure something out. And that's what I think the movie really is at the end of the day. It's like, it's a negotiation between these two sides of myself and, and, and there are certain scenes where one side of me wins over the other, certain moments, it, it, it changes from moment to moment from scene to scene, I think. And then I actually, I think the, what was like really beautiful to me about this is I, I do think, and this is not for me to decide, okay? But I do think that, um, their moments were, they're really synthesized and where it doesn't matter who's winning, you know, um, which side of me is winning, like, yeah, no, it's really interesting. I was thinking about how you're saying you were trying to write something before this. It was more personal or more dark, um, and then where you brought yourself to, I don't, I don't know if you're familiar with the rapper's first album, Conundrum, you know, the sort of like, you've been waiting 25 years to tell your story, you put it all on your first album and then you get to the rapper's second album and you're like, this person has nothing left to say. And so like, is there any part of you when you're making something where you're like, maybe don't put all of it in? Yeah. Like, what can I, cause you, it seems like maybe you ended up putting a lot of it in. Yes. Cause I was trying not to put all of it in, like I was like, oh, I was like, oh, I'll just do something fun. Like let's just do something fun and then, and then yeah, I don't know if it feels, it, to me, like, but this is what making anything by the end of it, you're like, it contains the universe. Yeah. Everything's in this. Do you, is this, um, I asked Olivia this yesterday, too, now, is this your job now? because it is. film director, the thing that, 'cause you know, I feel it, from afar, it seemed like you were doing great as an actor, as a comedian, like-- - Really? - Yeah. - I feel like I got a-- - A thriving career. - I can't trust it. - They know that camera doesn't want you. That camera doesn't want you. Stay in the two shot. This is a conversation. Please stay in the two shot, John. I know you need your close up. - Mother, please. Yes, I mean, yes. It's certainly not gonna pay me anything. - Yeah, yeah, I was gonna ask you about that too. - Yeah, well, you never know. I mean, that's a tricky thing with this, right? Like, regardless of how this film does, it's people stumble into commercial success, following their passions all the time, so you can't count against that, right? - Yeah. Well, you know, Wallace Sean, someone who I've worked with, I just spent two years working on his play, and he's a hero of mine for so many reasons, but I really, I realized with this, I mean, I realized having put some of my own money in this movie, I, you know, and then working on it off probably for two years, I was like, oh, I understand the young children thing. Like, I'm understanding the way he's built his life. He has done these, he would did seven seasons of young children. - Yeah. - And take some time, see. - And Murphy Brown and the Cosby Show, like he did a million things like that, and it has allowed him to fund his avant-garde theater that's often been totally maligned and ignored and misunderstood. And, you know, and so, I, but to me, this is, it is the answer question, which I've somehow managed to avoid for three to four minutes now. Some might say 35 minutes. (laughing) I, yes. Like, this is, this is really what I like to do, and I really like, you know, the beautiful thing is you end up, you not only give yourself something to do for two or three years, you give your friends something to do for two or three years, you know, and like, my friends were like, it's not that this wasn't without its conflicts and its struggles, but like, my friends seemed so happy that we all had a little job for a little while. And we got to work together and like, that was so nice. But I really did feel work on this when he was like, this is a dignified life. I would like to keep doing this. I really like to keep doing this. And I've always wanted to. Do you think you'll circle back to the thing you're working on before? Yes, I am. I'm already doing it. 'Cause I really did. I really feel capable. I've proved something to myself working on this on my secret. And I, you know, Maddie's secret was an ex, I mean, it's in the title, Maddie's secret. Like, it's an exercise in like, bluntness, you know? And I worked through that and I want to keep going. I would love to make like eight Maddie movies. Seriously, I would love for her to be like a worker. Yeah, it's my dream, honestly. But I also, I got something out of my system a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Maddie's something happening right now. But I, one joke on set, 'cause we were honestly having so much fun. I think this is Claudia Adoradi's joke. She was like, you should do Emily's secret. Like, you should just spend the rest of your life taking each character in the movie. And like, Dina's secret, Beverly's secret and just do their secret. I gotta tell you, I love Claudia. And I feel like I did not see her enough. Like, I fell in love with her in love. And I think she's the funniest person in the universe. And letting her be like a bitch was just such a great idea. She's so wonderful. Well, she's a very like, Claudia is, people are very intimidated by Claudia, actually. Like, you know, she's played a lot of like bright-cherpy girls. And she's just like, she's the funniest. She's the coolest, she's the funniest. And I was excited to let her tap into the more withering. You know, part of her. You did good. Okay, so you're making another movie. What a-- - It's less blunt. - What less blunt? - I hope. - But will you also be like taking a young sheldon? Like, is that the plan? - There's no offer. - Okay. - I mean, it literally has to come along. The other thing that I have, which is really nice, is I was gonna come up with a joke. I couldn't think of anything. But I actually do have-- (laughs) - I was gonna come up with a joke. (laughs) - We acknowledge your efforts. (laughs) - Thank you. - Yeah. - No, I have touring. I mean, I literally have to stand up. Like, touring is also, I love doing it, actually. It's like totally depleting. But I really, really love performing life. And I have that to make money. - I hope this isn't an invasive question, but is that something that you're cool doing as you get older? 'Cause like, I certainly find traveling for work now. - Oh yeah. - Much different than 10 years ago. - No, no, and I don't do, I, this is like the Maddie and me. I have this like, then this is very much the movie. Like, I have this, the movie both on a like story level, but also on a formal level. It's like overstuffed. It's like, it's doing so much. It's exhausting itself. Maddie's exhausting herself. She's doing the dance class. And similarly, it's like in order to achieve the dance class, we had to learn choreography on our final weekend when we were all so exhausted. It's like, you know, I have a habit. And like, and my live shows are like, they're two hours, they're not an hour. They're two hours long. I'm doing song covers, you know, we're doing, I'm doing, I have a character where I have to change. Come if there's like, you know, whatever. It's like, I, I like to like sweat on stage. And so I, I, it's with each passing year, I just get more and more like, whoa, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm like, I feel my age in a crazy way. OK. Well, we end every conversation here by asking filmmakers what's the last great thing they've seen. You are a filmmaker. Thank you. I need to cheer that. What's the last great thing I've seen? Don't say the wrong thing. I know I can't solve. I know they'll come for me. Um, I, I'm sure because you know, it's, it's such a clear feeling when you're like, oh, I loved this. I love this. And I know I had it recently. Do you feel like you're still a, a massive consumer of movies? Uh, I've slowed down on consuming really anything. I haven't watched TV in so long. I was like, Matty, but I haven't, I also was like so inundated and watching movies to get ready for this movie that I like, I feel like I can't really watch anything anymore. I hear this all the time from directors too. Yeah. So there's a little like you hit a wall. I think when you make, when you make a movie hit the wall. And I, and I'm like, for this next thing I'm writing, I would like for the wall to break down again. And so is there something that is an inspiration point for the new thing? Hey, you would share. Um, you can be a real treasure cat about this if you want. (laughs) Can I smoke in here? (laughs) It's fine, right? Um, I, okay. (laughs) Let me think, let me think, what can I say? I mean, let's just say, okay, I'll be, this is really, I'll tell you off the mic, but my hint was this, there's an Amazon documentary, there's a documentary on Amazon. Not about Amazon, on Amazon. Okay, that has been very helpful for me. Wow, and that's all you'll give. Honestly, that's great. That's a first. Someone who won't name a thing, but will reference anything, but you will come back by Amazon. On the next movie. Yes. He had 62 years. Yes. Yes, I'll be, you know, fully paralyzed from various back surgeries. I, okay, what have I seen that I love recently? No, no, let's do what you just did. I like that, that you, you can, you can claim ownership of the first time ever referencing, but on and on seeing, yeah, that was special. John Early, thank you for being here. Congratulations on that, you see great. Thank you, I really appreciate it. (upbeat music) Thanks to John Early, thanks to Chris, Joanna, Charles, Mallory, Van, Adam, Yassie, and Rob, thanks to our producer, Jack Sanders, for his work on today's episode and his selection. Thanks to Lucas Kavanaugh for his production support. Later this week, Amanda, the movie auction returns. Yes. You're excited? You ready? Yeah, I mean, we've just spent an entire episode hearing people complain about how they didn't get what they wanted in the first half. So, you know, maybe I can channel that energy forward. Let's make it a whole theme week. We'll see you then. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)