Texas Prison Gang Leader On Being White In An All-Black Gang, Saying The N-Word

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Energy for everything. Visit TXU.com for more information. Rep number 10004. I didn't have really any love in the house, and then me and my brother didn't get along, so I found that love in the streets. I wanted to be an outlaw. I wanted to go to jail. Like, I wanted that. I had never been called a white boy. I had never heard that language. I was around bloods all the time. I grew up with bloods. All my homies are bloods. I was in a few shootouts. I wasn't afraid to pop that pistol. When I went to prison, I was like, now I'm rolling with the big boys now. This week, Tim Greisheimer returns to the podcast. In case you missed his past viral appearance, Tim G is a former blood gang member and a drug trafficker who spent a decade inside of the most brutal maximum security prisons in Texas. When he got out, he became a major meth distributor for the Sinaloa cartel and moved thousands of pounds of weed from Arizona to Ohio, where he was also attempting to break into the rap game. He ended up going back to prison, where he became a certified Muslim, took his shahada, and finally retired, from the life of crime. This is the first interview of a five-part miniseries we're doing about Tim's life, with brand new stories you haven't heard before. You can get the other episodes early and uncensored over at patreon.com slash the connect show. Ladies and gentlemen, one of the most fascinating and requested guests we've ever had on this podcast. It's the great and powerful Tim Greisheimer right here on the connect with Johnny Mitchell. Hey, everyone. I need your help. YouTube is once again suppressing my videos. So before we get this episode started today, please do me a huge favor and just quickly hit that like button. And of course, subscribe to the channel if you haven't already. It helps get the video out to so many more people. I really appreciate it. Enjoy Tim Greisheimer. Thank you. I like connecting with people and building with people and shit like that. Have you always been like that? Well, I've always been that type of person and people have always said it since I was young. Like I was somebody like when I walked into somewhere, people always like, uh, they said I attracted attention. Like, remember when I told you that I used to come to the strip club down here all the time. So like sometimes when I'd come down here, I'd hit the strip club first just to see what was going on. And then I would leave and I'd go to downtown. And I remember there was a stripper. She was, uh, I think she was Colombian or else. She was something from central South America named Coco. And, um, I remember when I got up to leave, she was like, where are you going? I was like, we're going down to sixth street real quick to go. Go check it out. And then, uh, she's like, man, I hate when you leave. And I'm like, why? And she's like, cause, uh, when you leave, it seems like you take the party with you. So I've always been the type of person, either people just don't like me for no reason, or they really want to fuck with me. So like probably like 98% of the time, people really want to fuck with me. And 2% of the time, people just don't, they just don't like me. Like they don't want to associate with me and stuff like that. But I've always been like that. I've always liked to network and connect with people. Cause I believe as humans, that's what we're supposed to do. I've always been a deep thinker, bro. I mean, my IQ is 136. Like I'm not stupid. I'm far from dumb as fuck. Like I'm, I got a lot of fucking snap, but I'm also just down to go into hell with dynamite draws on if that's what needs to be like, that's the type of, I'm a fucking, uh, God damn Billy, the kid, wild Bill Hickok type motherfucker. Like I'm, I'm, uh, if it comes to that, then I'm willing to do that type shit. Do you think that's? Do you think that's nature? Do you think that's you inherited that or that was from your childhood? Well, I think I inherited it because, um, I would say it came from my childhood, but I think, I think a lot of it is inherited because, uh, um, my bloodline is like Eastern German and, uh, I can trace my lineage all the way back to the barbarians that, uh, fought against the Roman empire. So I think that deep down warrior. I think that deep down warrior. dude at the time in the early 90s calling another black dude the n-word was they considered it like disrespect so you didn't i didn't really hear it thrown around that much i should say that's fascinating so it's not like cali no no no no it wasn't i mean they use it so predominantly now um now when i came to texas you know it was different the n-word was thrown around a lot i picked it up and started using it i still use it to this day if i get on the phone right now i call up one of my homeboys i grew up with as soon as i answer i can call him right now when he when i pick up the phone he's going to answer the phone he's gonna be like what's up and he's going to call me the n-word and then i might talk regular for a second but then after that i kind of will fall back into that that way of how we used to be and i'll say it but even when i was younger and i used to say if we were in groups i was very conscientious that certain black people don't want to hear you people that aren't black use that word so i was i tried not to let it slip did you ever have to fight over it did anybody take it the wrong way ever and try to fade with you yeah this episode is brought to you by txu energy for the first time ever texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings it's called free nights and cool summer you get free nights every night all year long plus a 25 bonus toward your daytime use all summer it's a first of its kind plan created for how texans actually use energy discover how much more you could save with free nights and cool summer txu energy energy for everything visit txu.com for more information rep number one zero zero zero four yeah a couple times a couple times uh one time in temple on the east side we were down there and uh shooting dice and stuff like that and uh people would i was just talking and i just kind of forgot where i was at because i stayed on the south side so the east side and the south side kind of beefed but we were over there because my homeboy had family over there and i let it slip talking and had to fight behind it me and uh me and uh we're actually well he's passed away now but uh me and a guy fought behind it because he was like white boy what you doing and i thought we was cool because we went to school together but we weren't and i got my ass whooped yeah i got i got beat up i got i got beat up pretty bad but yeah i got fucked up he hit hard in the motherfucker cedric he he hit hard as a motherfucker it seems like you weren't afraid to lose fights no no no no because i always looked at it as as long as i got out there that's all that mattered like as long as i got out there that's that's that's all that mattered so i mean but i wasn't stupid when i fought like i would watch bruce lee or chuck norris or jean-claude van damme um stephen seagal the rock movies and i would always shadow box a lot in the house like i like to have friends but i also like time by myself so like i'd be in the backyard trying moves and stuff like that and then like say me and my friends would hang out because i was so down to fight we'd either go to apartments to play football and then i would try those moves out so i wanted to fight like i wanted to be known for that especially like even in ohio or like well in texas there wasn't too many white dudes hanging out with the people that i hung out with so i wanted to be known as i was i was i was about that life like i wanted to be known that i was hard um so yeah i wasn't afraid to lose because and i didn't really lose that much like watching those movies helped me like actually become a good fighter like mimicking what i could see and i was about to i was about because you have to realize i grew up in the 90s so like white dudes in black neighborhoods got jumped they got their starter jackets took they got their nice shoes took i didn't have any of that stuff really because i was poor but i did have a couple of starter jackets that i got and i wasn't getting my shit took so you know i was one of those people that if you if i even felt like you were a threat in that situation i just spurred off on you i'm gonna get the jump on you and i'm not stopping until somebody pulls me off or something like that so yeah i wasn't afraid to lose because i felt that physical violence if you knew i was about if i was down to be physical like that fear you're gonna be like that's what predators look for they they you i didn't know this till later on but that's what they look that's what they they look for weakness bro so if you're not weak then they're like i ain't gonna fuck with him like it's not gonna happen it's almost like you were preparing yourself for prison your whole childhood i was dude and i realized that later on like i idolized going to jail like i i was dude my first day in prison i wasn't even scared that's what was crazy like i was scared i guess obviously i was fearful but when i was a kid growing up everybody was going to juvenile like everybody was going to prison guys were coming home and i never made the juvie step but i always thought that that was dope and like i was like i was like i was like guys coming home from prison and then like i remember uh one day i came home from school in the 90s and uh my old stepdad he had i think it was like a time magazine or something and it had john gotty on the front of it and um then later on that night we were watching the news and we had like one of the old tvs like the tvs with like the wood box frame television or whatever and uh john gotty had would had come out of court and they were calling him like the tap tap dapper don or something and i remember i asked my stepdad i was like uh who is that what is he and he's like he's a big mobster and he's a big you know criminal figure in new york and i remember when i saw that like that just like captivated me i wanted to be an outlaw i wanted to go to jail like i wanted i wanted that so when i finally did go to jail when i was 17 i was more scared going in the county than i was going to prison because when i went to prison i was like now i'm rolling around and i'm going to jail and i'm going to jail and i'm with the big boys now this is this is like a test so i mean i know i was scared but deep down i think it was something that i wanted honestly what age did you jump off the porch you were you in ohio when you first started kind of rocking and rolling yeah yeah yeah i mean i started stealing when i was eight like we started stealing when we were eight so and then uh when i got a little bit older um there would be like dealers that would send us to go do like like little licks and stuff for them or we would hold dope for them because they would always say we wouldn't go to jail we wouldn't get any trouble so i was eight when i started stealing and i would might have been like 10 or 11 when i would like be out on the block holding drugs and stuff like that and then in texas like it was the same way like when i was 12 13 like we were already hitting licks getting guns i was shit i was packing my first gun when i was 11 10 or 11 i remember it was like the little 22 or 25 that looked like the berettas like the little berettas it had a little clip in it i think it held like five and then you could hit the button in the middle and the middle barrel popped up and you could put a bullet right there and pop it down i had one of them joints i thought i was hard to bitch now did you ever busted anybody oh yeah hell yeah yeah for sure all the time i was wild with that pistol guaranteed i got into a shootout right before i got the week i got locked up when i was 17 i had uh two pistols on me i had that uh that 38 uh snub nose i had told you about before the first interview and then i had like um i think it was one of those german pistols it was the the weird shape the old school like world war ii pistols with the skinny nose um the weird funny handle i had one of them joints and this dude was chasing after us because he robbed me for a brick of weed and uh i ran and jumped in the car he started following after us so my chick was driving and then my fall partner was in the back seat and i was like go to cut back here cut back here to this neighborhood and then when we came when we came in like dead end and then went it up and it went up this way and i was like as soon as we start coming down the hill stop the car and i'm gonna get out and i remember i stopped at when she stopped the car uh i've learned this later on i mean it probably still could have happened but i like jumped out the car and i like busted the pistol sideways like that shit was cool and i remember i hit that hoe three times boom boom boom and when i got to the third time it stopped shooting and i didn't know what was going on and then this dude just leaned out like popped his driver door and he just popped his hand over and he started thumping poof poof poof and i just dove back in her car she had a mustang and i was like i was like take off shit i think it was like a 97 mustang a red one with the rag top so she took off and uh i looked down at the pistol and the shell was stuck in the slide so yeah yeah i got i was in a few shootouts i wasn't afraid to pop that pistol did you ever get hit no no no no i only almost got shot one time and that was in ohio in 99 uh it was funny crazy right uh some blood dudes tried to shoot me yeah it's ironic huh because i was wearing my hat the because like I told you like an Ohio cock in your hat wearing your hat like this, that still means something up there. And I stayed in a crip neighborhood. So I was wearing my hat to respect the neighborhood that I was in. And I was coming home from school, but I had moved to California from 96 to 99. So when I came to Texas, I mean, when I went back to Ohio, I had lived around a bunch of bloods in Cali. So I was rocking red Dickies or red Ben Davises with like the little monkey on them and shit like that. And Chuck Taylors, you get like two for 50 at the SWAT meet in South Central. And that's when Chucks were cheap. But as soon as I got there and my real father picked me up from the plane, he was all like, you can't wear none of that shit. And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, now where I stay at, he's like, we got to go get you new clothes. He's like, you ain't going to make it a week. So I was like, I'm going to go get you new clothes. I'm going to So I had my hat one way. And then my homeboy Mike was like, turn your hat. And as soon as I turned my hat, some blood dudes in a white Acura had pulled up at the cross street and they looked at us and they just started shaking their head like that. And I looked, I was like, who the fuck are them fools? And he's like, oh, and he was, he was a crip. So he's all slob ass motherfuckers. And his dad was a crip? No, no, no. My homeboy Mike was a crip. Yeah. Italian Mike. That's what they called him. Little white dude, super stocky, not straight knockout power. He's all slob ass motherfuckers. And, um, they pulled off. So the next day, bro, I'm walking home by myself. And when I get to that same crossroad, them dudes just so happened to pull there. And when I stopped and I looked at them, they're just shaking their head at me. And I was already making a name for myself on that, on that block and East terrorism. It's called the hilltop. The neighborhood's called the hilltop in West side, Columbus, Ohio. You can look it up. And, uh, unless they've taken it down, there's like, a train track that goes over and you go into the train track and there's words that say hilltop right there. Like kind of like what the Hollywood sign, but not big like that, but it says hilltop and it's a straight rough and rugged fucking neighborhood, bro. That the West side of Columbus, man, it's a, it's a different breed over there. So I saw him looking at me, but so I stop and I'm trying to let him pass me. And there, and there said, he looking at me like this and I'm like, man, fuck. So I started walking across the street and then they just start letting the car and as I'm walking, I'm kind of looking back like this. And I just see homeboy dip down. And as soon as he did down, I already knew what it was. I took off running and he popped up. I don't know what he had, but it was definitely some type of a assault rifle. Like, like one of those firearms. Cause he just started hitting that hole. I think it was a chopper bro. Cause that thing went through front and back windshield of the car and it skinned over. Like I actually felt it come over the back of my neck. When I cut through the car, I was like, Oh my God, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm going to die in the car. Cause in Cali, like what we got shot at in Cali. Cause I've been shot at at Cali. When we ran, we would like zigzag, like we had zigzag between cars and duck and dodge, like stuff like that. Like we wouldn't just run straight. If we did run like in Cali, when I got shot at, when I would be on the block, if they came by and did a drive by or something like that, uh, he, a lot of people wouldn't even run. They would just drop to a knee and they would always say, if you ran, that was like the worst way of getting shot. If just, just drop down, just, you got a better way. And they actually teach that. I think in the army too, like people start shooting, just drop to a knee and assess where the problems are coming from. But to answer your question, yeah, I felt that bullet or the wind of it, I guess you would say come across the top of the back of my shoulder when I was trying to cut through a car. So you were already gang banging before you came to Texas. Yeah, basically. Yeah. And so B's and C's were at, thing in Columbus in the nineties. Yeah. Yeah. I think Crips had got there, if I'm not mistaken from what I had been told before Bloods did, but it was mainly was up there was like, uh, like GD, Vice Lord, Four Corner Hustlers, like more of those like organizations, but Crips were up there when I was there. Like my block was a Crip and Folk block. So they would like lock up C's and then they would like turn the pitchforks up because they had like a truce with each other where you could say that. And did you have interest in joining? Yeah, dude, it was, this is what's crazy, right? So like I knew how to see walk and everything. So like when I wound up coming to prison here in Texas, uh, I had told you about a buddy of mine, uh, that had saved me when the, the, uh, the white dudes backdoored me, the dude named Slim. I said his cousin, ugly, but he was, he was a rolling sixties Crip here from, uh, Boston. So when we were on the chain bus on the way over here, we were handcuffed to each other. So I was telling him all these stories and then he just shook my hand playing around. Cause we're handcuffed like this. So when I went to shake his hand, we do the Crip handshake together, just me knowing it, like just kind of vibing with them type shit. So like, I, so I'm familiar with both worlds, right? Like, and I, but in, but in Texas I was around Bloods all the time. Like, so that's how that, and then in Cali, you know what I'm saying? Being around, uh, Denver Lane Bloods and shit in Pasadena. So, I mean, I, that's why I say like, I never was a gang banger. Cause I never banged on anybody like to me, well, ultimately got me fucking with the Bloods more than the Crips per se. When I went to prison was like, Bloods are always usually, you know, well-kept, well-mannered about that money, about, about getting money, things of that nature, right? Where Crips, you know what I'm saying? Not to be disrespectful, have always been, especially the ones I've been around, been about like jacking, jacking, robbing, grimy, just like wild with it. Where Bloods were more professional, I should say. And that's what attracted me was the professionalism, the way that they carry themselves, always being clean, cut and groomed, clothes always ironed. You would go to school and like the Crip Fools would be maybe more wrinkled up and not dirtied up. Where like here in Texas, creasing your jeans were super, like a big deal. So we didn't get that fucking, that starch, the called Stay Flow. I think they still sell it. We wouldn't even cut it with Stay Flow. We would shine, our pants would be so shiny. I'm talking about, we'd have our pants standing up in the corner. So shiny, clean tennis shoes, clean shoelaces, white, you know, hair, haircut all the time. Like we weren't grimy. Like we were, it was, it was more. So that attracted me that even though I was familiar with both and being around both and I knew history of both, I could have went either way with it, but just that professionalism and the way that they carry themselves was always like on point. And that's what attracted me that way. Today's episode is sponsored by HIMS. I've talked about HIMS at Nauseam and I will continue to do so because it is my favorite company and my favorite product on Earth. Here's the deal boys. ED, erectile dysfunction is way more common than you think. Millions, probably billions of guys at this point deal with it. And that's exactly why HIMS offers a straightforward way to handle it. 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So like Temple, like gangbanging, is it like, like gangbanging, like what you would see maybe in like Cali or like, like, you know, it's not really more so about initiation. Like you can get jumped in or something, but like the Bloods that like, I grew up around, like me just being with them, the way we hit licks together, we did dirt together, we sold drugs together, we ate together. They could come to my mom's house. Like I could call my mom right now and put her on the phone and I can be like, Hey, you remember Trey? Well, she'd be like, how are they? Like they came and slept at our house. I slept at their house. Like my mom considered them their kids. If we had Thanksgiving dinner because everybody broke she'd be like hey tell your friends to come over here and let's eat we didn't have much you know i'm saying like you know but so i was already in we already locked up with each other like now we didn't go and try to find crips and ride on them so in that aspect yeah i was already a part of them now i think deep down my whole goal was to be as wild as possible and then when i turned 18 i wanted to join the military and try to be like a navy seal or some shit and learn how to be like a professional killer that was in my mind that was my whole fucking goal like i wanted to go to the the army or in or the marines and and and go to combat like that's that was my whole ideology was prop was either like you know that that's just what it was man i i deep down i thought when i turned 18 i'm gonna get in all this trouble when i turn 18 i'm gonna join the marines or join the army i wanted to be a navy seal that was for sure and i wanted to go overseas and kill people that was that was what i wanted to do honestly to tell you the truth i don't know if i would have succeeded at that but that's what i wanted to do so your identity that you had built for yourself by the time you were a teenager was like a soldier yeah yeah i was very militant i'm still militant to this day like i i like i don't like dysfunction i like to be on time i like to be i was here on time last time i got caught in traffic but you know that was my fault but i'm i'm like one of those people like i say 15 i'll say 15 minutes i'll get there 15 minutes early but to me that's being on time okay so how old were you when you moved from ohio to texas pro football is back and so are the predictions trade yours on cal sheet america's number one prediction market platform this sunday it's denver versus los angeles with denver currently trading at 46 percent to win trade 100 and you could get 209 if they win download cal sheet use code win 26 to get 25 when you trade 25 a k l s h i cal sheet trade what's next 18 years plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors cal sheet products are not available in all jurisdictions prices values and available markets may differ from those mentioned for more information see cal sheet.com slash regulatory well because we i moved here when i was young but we were going back and forth because of that abusive relationship that my mom was in with my uh he's passed away now dude named donnie straight piece of shit motherfucker we met him in prison so my mom used to take us to church every sunday and through her church group which i didn't even know this until later on that's how she met this dude donnie and we went to go visit him in prison it was like a that prison looked like an old castle and i remember he whooped my ass the first day i met him in prison because i sat under the table because he just looked evil man like he just he looked fucking like he just looked fucked up dude and i'm one of those people like i can just sense when somebody's not a good person bro like i can feel it like i'm very good at seeing very far down the field like i can pick plays like i can just tell somebody hey man this is that i'm telling you this is gonna happen and usually i'm i'm like spot on and uh i guess he didn't like me because like my brother immediately when he came home was like calling him dad because my brother's real dad didn't uh fuck with him like he signed his rights away and i he was like you're gonna call me dad and i was like i'm not calling you dad so like say like i'd be in the bedroom like playing with my gi joes and shit right like i'd set up little forts and shit or i'd be outside doing it this motherfucker would just come in and just start strangling me like start strangling the fuck out of me and this fool was a uh a brick mason he laid concrete bro his fucking hands were so fucking tough he didn't need a belt that dude didn't need no belt when he hit you that dude didn't need no belt like he was in prison for beating a cab driver you remember with the old police nightsticks the long ones like the 90s they used to hang in their belts he beat a cab driver damn near killed him with one of those nightsticks and he was like i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you like and he was a cocaine junkie i didn't know this but uh yeah dude he used to just fucking choke me for no reason my mom didn't believe me like it was it was uh it was a regular abuse by that dude fucking like like i'm talking about pick me up in the air and choke me until i'm about to pass out let me go and then do it again you know just like wild shit come in just starts just hitting me all over my body with like his open hands and i'm like i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you uh i remember he would take me or my brother or sometimes me and my brother on jobs with him one thing i can say good about that motherfucker is he taught me how to fish so so i still remember that to this day i know how to fish i know how to skin a fish i know how to peel the skin off a cat fish so i'll i'll give him that he did give me a trade but he taught us how to make um a fishing pole out of like some some wood that was there and i'm like i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you i'm gonna kill you at one of the sites and he used to do like rich people's homes and i remember one day he fucking broke one of those uh those sticks over my back he said i back talked to him i couldn't remember if i did or didn't but i might have but like yeah that's what it was it was very uh physical abuse they met in prison you said yeah she met him some church group the church that we went to they somehow made that introduction so they they were like pen pals yeah damn and he gamed her up he gamed her up bro gamed her up and it was like fuck five six years of fucking hell and did he abuse her yeah man he fucked my mom up all the time beat her up uh broke her neck fucking and yeah he dude he he we tried to leave one day and my mom had the suitcases back packed and i don't even know if they still make suitcases like this anymore because i don't ever see him when i go to the store but it was like the big square suitcases that you've seen everybody have like in the 80s and 90s and he picked one of those up and he fucking hit her that's how he uh cracked her spine and um yeah that dude was that dude was vicious he never hit my brother though that was crazy because me and my brother talked about it just recently and he told me that he had never hit him my brother never endured any type of abuse from him but it was just me and my mom did you think about trying to kill him hell yeah bro uh i don't know if you remember that but i don't know if you remember that but i don't know if you remember this but back in the game i think they still have them they had these pellet guns that were black and they were long they kind of looked like the 45 but you would hit a button on the side and you had to pull the hammer back and then push it but in the middle like towards that well where the the site is at the end came up and you could either put like a little dart in it or a bb or a pellet i can't remember so he went to jail and then he got out and i remember my mom she had like a toyota like one of the little small single cap hiccups and i remember her me and my brother we were riding down it and we were living in springfield at the time and this motherfucker always wore like flannel t-shirts and jeans and then like construction boots and um we were driving and i knew by his hair that uh he had like that billy ray cyrus fucking haircut like his hair would be like slicked and it was naturally curly like kind of like a mullet style deal and i knew by his walk that it was him and i was like is that donnie and my mom's like i ain't letting him in the house and i was like i'm not letting him in the house so he tried to come in the house and i remember i she let him in the house and i had that that that fucking pellet gun behind my back and then i remember i like pulled the pellet gun out on him and i told him like that i would kill him if he ever touched my mom again and then his eyes were bloodshot red so his ass must have been high and then there was another time he was gone all weekend he was out my dad said he was smoking crack so we used to live in these projects called green higher greenbrier house and projects in ohio and i'm sure you can look this up they called it uh oozy alley machine gun alley like it went down in that motherfucker it was like an old military base uh barracks like it was that fucking place was a rowdy dude and uh my dad caught him in there smoking crack because my dad lived there and he like threatened my dad and my dad was scared of him because my dad's like not like he's not somebody who tries to be violent like he's not that type of guy he tries to walk away from violence he told me the story later on so it was that weekend though and uh he came back to the house and i remember i had a fucking fillet knife of the fish fillet knife that he had that he filleted fish with that shit was razor sharp and i remember he's sitting on the couch apologizing and my brother was like leaned up on the wall crying and shit like a bitch and i had that fucking fillet knife behind me and he tried to stand up to come over and he's like let me give you guys a hug and i pulled that motherfucker out and i tried to get him to come over and he was like let me give you a hug and i cut him with it and he he was so quick with it bro when i when i pulled it out and tried to come across like this way he fucking caught my arm i remember he caught my arm and fucking grabbed me by my throat started fucking choking me and i started crying i remember i told him i was all like when you go to sleep tonight i can barely get the words out but i was like when you go to sleep tonight i was like you're dead motherfucker and i was in first grade i remember i was eight years old you know i was like you're dead he left the house he didn't come back for some days and i was like i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and i'm gonna go to bed and he i remember he told me later on uh he said i knew he said i I know you'll kill me if I stay here. Yeah. Yeah, you wouldn't have done any time either. Dude, when I went to Ohio, when I got sent to Ohio, bro. Oh. In 99, when I got sent to Ohio, I was with my buddy, Italian Mike. Yeah. I thought I saw him at Voo. I remember I had a Glock 17 on me. And we were in Mike's dad's Astro van. He laid carpet. And there's a grocery store up there called Kroger. It's a grocery store called Big Bear. We were in Big Bear. I don't know if it's still there, but they used to have a grocery store up there called Big Bear. And there was a movie that Julia Roberts played in, I think, in the 90s called Sleeping with the Enemy. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. That actor that. That psychopath motherfucker in that movie. That's what Donnie looked like. Fucking spitting image of that motherfucker. And I remember when we were in the Big Bear, my buddy Mike said my name. He's like, look out, Tim. And that dude looked at me. And I looked at him. And we just locked in. And I was like, this is that motherfucker. I was like, this is him. So we get in the car. I told Mike. I was all like, hey, bro. And I fucking had two bandanas on me. And I tied one around the top of my head, but pulled it down. And I tied the other one up. So only this part of my face was showing. And he's like, what you doing, fool? I said, you remember that fucking white boy in the liquor aisle? And he's like, yeah. Because we had went and got this fifth. I don't even know if they still make this shit. It's called Aftershock. I think it's called Aftershock. And you know what I'm talking about? I remember that shit, yeah. Yeah, so we had got that in some OJ. Because in Ohio. The grocery stores, they sell liquor and shit. Or they used to. So we had that in some OJ. And I was like, you remember that white boy? He's like, yeah. I was like, I'm about to smoke this motherfucker. And he's like, what? I said, that's the motherfucker that used to beat my mom. And we just kept circling the parking lot. I don't know where, if we missed him or what. But he never came out. But if I would have saw him that day, if he would have came out, that store, I don't know what happened. His ass was grass, dog. I was going to murder that fool. Like, I still get angry. When I think about that dude, like, like a deep seated anger. Do you have any resentment towards your mom for, for staying with him? For getting into that relationship in the first place? I think that I did for a long time, but I dealt with that. Like, I think she was just, women are weak like that, man. Like, you got a, you're a single mom, two kids. Like. You know, she's trying her best. She grew up in an abusive household. Her, her, her dad, my grandfather was a drunk and was abusive. He used to like, whoop them with bull whips. He knew in Kentucky, he knew how to hit them. He knew how to whoop my mom and her brothers with bull whips to where he could not split their skin open. So he could whoop them where it would just pop them and whelp them really good. That's how beast this fool was with the bull whip. And, uh, he was a crazy mother fucker too. Fred. Yeah. He was a mean son of a bitch. So I think my, and he used to beat her mom all the time. My grandmother who I never met cause she died of cancer. Uh, so I think when you grow up like that, if you don't deal with it, you don't know how to pass it down. Maybe. I don't know. Cause me growing up like that, bro, being abused, even my mom, my mom used to abuse me too mentally and she would hit me sometimes. She's blocked it out. Like we've talked about it. She doesn't even remember it, but I know she called my brother and she asked him, she said, your brother said that I did this and did that. And, uh, my brother got quiet and she said, please tell me he's lying. And my brother said that he told her, you want to know the truth? Or do you want to say, you want me to tell you he's lying? And he said that she hung up the phone on him. So she has like totally blocked that out, but for me growing up abused like that. Now that I have two kids, like even without my two kids, bro, I've never wanted to hurt children. Like any time I've ever been around children, like children and old people, dog, like that's not something, but did I hold it against her? I think I did for a long time. But as I matured mentally, I think that she was just a weak lady, a weak lady, and probably trying to do the best that she could for two kids. You know? That's what I think. Yeah. And so that's, why did she come to Texas? Why was she coming to Texas? Because her, her dad was here. Her dad was here and her brother was here and she came here, but we went back and forth. And then she sent us to California as kids to live with my aunt out there for a little while. And then we came back. So it was a lot of moving around, dude, like a lot of unstableness for sure. Yeah. So you got to Temple, Texas. About 45 minutes outside of Austin when you're a teenager, roughly. Yeah. And that was where you kind of became a man. Yeah. What was the starkest difference when you got to Texas versus Ohio in terms of the racial element and the gang banging in the streets? Well, we're in Ohio. If I went outside and I was new in the neighborhood. Around like same, like some black kids, it can be black and white. Like they might treat you different because you're just new until they figure out who you are. Whereas in, but you eventually know they're probably going to play with you and hang out with you. Right. But where we now came to Texas, there wasn't really that many white people where I was at. There was, but it was more like they more were maybe like say the Calio blocks where I lived at right on the South side. There was white people in that area, but they more so might've hung out, hung out over here. And the blacks were all over here and they ran this area. They still run that area to this day. So like me, because like, I grew up around white people that were like, I guess, fly like me. So like when I saw like the regular white dudes, I didn't really attract to that because I attracted to the, the, the, the black dudes, like how they were. So like, I try to like make friends with them, but they were like, who the fuck is this white boy? Don't be bringing this little white boy over there. Like they'd be out there selling crack. And I go over there, like my, my buddy that brought me around and Ray and his name is Ray and they were like, man, you got that white boy over here. I'm gonna be bringing that white boy over here. I had never heard that shit before. Like I had never been called a white boy. Like I had never heard that language. So like the racial demographics were definitely like, you're not being accepted. You're not being accepted. You're not being accepted here. And that took me like, even, uh, I had said that story before to you, like when I was in Ray and his house and his mom came home, she saw me sitting on the couch and she just like, looked at me like I was shit. And she went in the bedroom. I remember she called him back. She's like, "Raydren, come here." And he's like, "Bob, what's up, mama?" She's like, "Who's that white boy sitting on my couch?" I just got up and walked out and went and sat on the stairs. And then he wound up coming out. He's like, "Why'd you leave?" And I was like, "Man, your mama called me a white boy." He's like, "Oh man, this is Texas." "Bro, it's different down here." Like you hang out, you trying to hang out with us, but it's not like that down here. Like we don't, you know, white people and black people, it's just different. We don't like mix like that here. And Temple was still kind of segregated like that. Like in the rich neighborhoods, it was predominantly white. You might see a few Hispanics and you see a few blacks, but what I can say that I remember a lot of the times when we, cause we did make friends with people who lived in those neighborhoods like Canyon Creek, Northwestern Hills and shit like that. Like a lot of those at that time when I was a kid, those blacks or Hispanics that lived in those neighborhoods, like their dads were either cops like Temple PD or they worked at the hospital. So they were educated, like, you know, they were school people. They were different. They weren't the same as us. So there was definitely, definitely racial borders where if you would go to a rich neighborhood, neighborhood in Ohio, you would see rich white and black people. Like it would be, you don't understand what I'm saying. Like it was nothing to see a rich black person in Dublin, Ohio, like in Dublin, in Columbus, like you didn't, it didn't think you didn't think any different, right? So like in Temple, you could definitely see the difference. And like, I even told you, I went to the corner store and there was a country white dude in there. He's like, he's like, what'd he say something, what you doing boy? And I'm like, boy. So I looked at him like the fuck, like to me, like calling somebody a boy, like that was, that was, uh, that was, that was racial. That was disrespect. That was, that was, you know, you know, that was, that was disrespectful to call somebody that. So. So it sounds like you were almost stuck in the middle when you came to Texas, you experienced racism from black people, right? Prejudice. Yeah. Otherness. And then you experienced discrimination from white Texans that looked at you. you as like probably a wigger, a white kid up to no good that's trying to be black yes sir which one hurt you more maybe like looking back at it now because how like i eventually evolved i think the white hurt me more but at that time it was the black that hurt me more like it was the black that hurt me more like for some reason i wanted to be accepted by them i don't know why i could i could guesstimate why so at that time i think it was at that time thinking at that time initial thought wise was it was the black the blacks not accepting me that's why i drove to get their acceptance but as i grew older i believe that it was probably really the whites because as i got older when i was out selling dope and i hung out with people that didn't sell drugs like even a good friend of mine today uh my whole boy black dude played football for me and i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like for umhb he's a life coach bodybuilder you know uh he had a lot of like educated well-groomed white friends and he'd bring me around them but you could tell they really didn't trust me and it hurt it hurt it hurt me that not one of my own as far as like a caucasian person didn't and i think that's when i started gaining like racial awareness so i believe back then it was white but on the surface i was like oh my god i'm gonna be like oh my god i'm gonna be like being a young kid it was black and that's why i wanted to gain their acceptance right and when you went to prison for the first time same story you were trying to gain their acceptance i was trying to gain their acceptance yeah i went down for burglaries for uh six six burglaries that they got me for and uh yeah i went with shit went to prison and then i think because i burglarized that sheriff i think that's why i went to a terror unit which is now called polonsky where death row is and bro like so back then so commissary now like you can do a 95 what it's a 95 spend so you can spend up to 95 dollars every two weeks but back then when i went it was a 75 so they had this thing called fight fuck or bust a 75 so bro i remember when i got picked up to go to to go to prison we drove by temple high school and i'm on the bus and then i'm up first all talking yeah whoa whatever like it ain't shit and i'm sitting in there in a too small fucking jumpsuit that's high waters all up my ass and shit and i'm sitting there handcuffed to this other motherfucker and i remember we were driving by temple temple high school and i'm looking at the high school and kids are getting off and going to high school and i'm 17 that's where i'm supposed to be at and for some reason that song uh lean on me came into my mind and i just like it was just playing in my head and i'm just looking at the window and i just kind of resting my head on the window and i was like fuck what i do to myself like it was kind of like that that awareness of like man i'm i'm going like i can i can see the dynamics between the two lives right like they're going to school they don't even know i'm on a prison bus driving past them my friends are there and i'm on a fucking prison bus going to prison so by the time we get to the prison i had never heard of this prison before and then like uh i like he was asking everybody where are you going man where are you going so i tell him i'm going to the tetero unit he's all like uh man you better get you a knife so i was on this transfer unit called gore read and it's only two stories and it it used to be like there was women on the other side i don't know if it's still like that but they have to roll the bars and let you out and all that old type of shit so i remember when i was coming down the stairs on one road there was a black dude he was fucking blue black he would always stare at me big motherfucker and i was just like i would always think man when i go when i get to the the real joint i'm gonna fucking have to fight some motherfucker like that like i remember when that white dude asked me that and i started walking he was like walking behind me man it sucks just going to terro unit oh shit and everybody's like where you going bro asking their own voice so that black dude he was leaned with his hands out the bars really not by about this much of his arms because his arms are so fucking massive he's like look out wood and i turned and i looked at him i was like well somebody's like come here so i walked like just far enough like close enough and he's all like where you going i was like terro unit and he just dropped his head like that this episode is brought to you by txu energy for the first time ever texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings it's called free nights and cool summer you get free nights every night all year long plus a 25 bonus toward your daytime use all summer it's a first of its kind plan created for how texans action use energy discover how much more you could save with free nights and cool summer txu energy energy for everything visit txu.com for more information rep number one zero zero zero four and he is like man when you get there don't listen to none of these motherfuckers don't hit the first person you see he's like well bro you need to get you a knife he's like because they're doing nothing but killing over there he's like it ain't like the red bricks where it's a bunch of fighting they're doing nothing but killing over there which they were doing nothing but killing over there when i got there there wasn't a lot of fights it was different than the red brick units because when i caught chain and i went over there there was a bunch of dudes on the chain bus from like beato and stuff like that and they thought that they were going to come to tarot unit and like start running the show because they come from these rock and darrens ends and they fight all the time but at that time over there it wasn't a bunch of fighting like you couldn't just go and start fucking thumping on somebody it was there was a whole different level of respect there and i was like man when you get there don't listen to none of them like a fight could turn into a fucking riot real fucking quick like it was different over there it was more professional i should say like so when we pull up and i'll get into that so when we pull up uh i'm handcuffed to that dude slim so you hear a dude's talking oh here it goes man here it goes woo and i'm thinking we're gonna like gonna pull up to a red brick unit but it's not like that and so as soon as we pull around to the back of the unit right when you pull in to the back you got 12 building right here which is death row and seg and then you got 11 building across from you which is a phd and then like the infirmary and law libraries right here so you're on what's called b-side i remember they had all these laws waiting for us and uh like the riot suits or whatever you know what i'm saying with the fucking like the umpire fucking shin guards with the knee pads and shit i was like with the little baton i'm like why are these motherfuckers in riot gear and they come and get on the bus but i didn't know because all those dudes that were coming from them other units they were like troublemakers like there was a riot here or there and that's why they were sending them there so that's why they were like that so i remember the fucking the one of the laws ran up on the bus he's like hey shut the fuck up he's like welcome to tarot unit fight fucker and i'm like okay what the fuck does that mean like i can't ask the dude next to me because he don't know it's his first time in prison so i'm just like fight fucker buster 75 well i guess i'm fighting because i ain't fucking and uh 75 i ain't even got that on my book so i don't know what this is about we get off and everybody's talking and talking and talking and talking in the multi-purpose room in 12 buildings so the it's what was actually indoor rec and and we're all sitting around everybody's just eyeballing everybody and i'm just sitting there and i'm like fuck dog like here we are and um some of the black dudes are coming up for me and i'm like fuck dog like here we are and uh some of the black dudes are coming up to me what you bang homie what you bang and i was like i was like no i don't bang i don't i don't bang because i was told in the county to hang out with white dudes but the thing about texas is it's not like other prisons you hear in other states where white dudes are accepting where they come when you come in and they're like hey homeboy what's up or bro and they try to put you on like in texas white dudes will leave you out to hang by yourself especially when the families were running the show because they only wanted the stiffest motherfuckers with them they only wanted the the heart of the heart in the abt the ac the the white knight especially the abt like that's the top dudes at that time right so like they don't come to be your friend they don't come to befriend you so none of the white dudes are talking to me so i'm like okay so i'm just wondering what is going on and then i wind up getting taken down to my pod so fast forward and then you know start hanging out with the white dudes and stuff like that but they're trying to like uh saying things about black people saying things about this they're trying to give me um literature on on a racial stuff this is when a lot of books could get in now all these books can't get in like you can't even get in uh robert green's books like 48 laws of power and all that shit none of that shit's allowed in texas prisons anymore so they were like there was there's a famous clan dude named uh well he like was in congress or something in louisiana he used to be named david duke so he had a book called like my awakening so like they give me this book and this is over like a few weeks like this happening they get me on the bodybuilders team i'm lifting weights there's creatine in the system but my celly you know is half white half black and uh he's from houston stupid cool motherfucker stupid cool and um he could tell that i'm different and he's like man what'd you do in the world what who you're brand within the world. So I got a couple of pictures that my mom sent in and I'm with all my homeboys throwing up gang signs and shit like that he started laughing so I'm just I kind of like open up to him not kind of I do because I could tell he's stupid cool I'm just like I'm like bro what am I supposed to do man I'm told I'm supposed to hang out with the white dudes and but I was like I don't roll like that and I'm not trying to be getting caught up in nothing and uh he was like just hang out with your people bro and uh he's just do what you gotta do to get home because this ain't that type of place Tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at BJ's Wholesale Club saving up to 25% off grocery store prices beef jerky microwave meals laundry pods even they can't I met my kids and with BJ's gas she gets there for less they call me the road warrior this is your home road warrior mom home of the save join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months open soon limited time offer new members only BJ's home of the save this episode is brought to you by TXU energy for the first time ever Texans have an all year with daytime summer savings it's called free nights and cool summer you get free nights every night all year long plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer it's a first of its kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy discover how much more you could save with free nights and cool summer TXU energy energy for everything visit txu.com for more information rep number one zero zero zero four