Testing this Legendary Punk Journalist’s Music Knowledge

How many years did you spend in this scene, like going to CBGB's? 75 to about 79. It was like my living room. Yeah. ♪ Good thing to do, good thing baby ♪ ♪ And when you're broke ♪ Paul Revere in the Raiders. You're a fan. Oh, yeah, a huge fan. Is that punk rocker precursor in some way? Well, they did kicks, come on. ♪ Kicks just keep getting harder to find ♪ ♪ And all your kicks ain't bringing you peace of life ♪ You should do yourself to this camera over here. Hi, I'm Legs McNeil. I'm the co-author of my new book, "Resident Punk." It's about starting punk magazine and hang out with the Ramones and Richard Hal and Patty Smith and William Burrows and Norman Mailer and people like that. Tell me about like your early introduction to music before you started punk magazine. Oh, okay. I listened to top 40 radio on in the car. Yeah. And it had the best music. I had Hendrix and then I had the Kinks. And then I had the Hoon and then I had early Beatles, early Stones, the Animals. It was just fantastic. And then when we all became a Vage, it became folk rock, you know? And it was horrible. And that's why we all kind of collected at CBGB's because somebody was doing something new and different. But it was almost like a return to an older form of music. But like garage rock and pop and 60-spop music. Yummy, yummy, yummy. I got love in my tummy. That's what the Ramones were trying to write. Tell me about the scene that you sort of entered into. You come to New York City from Connecticut and like music is in the air. Well, I came with Jed Dunn and John Holmes from who grew up in our same town. And John Holmes wanted to start a magazine about comic books and rock and roll, which I thought was interesting because we'd been listening to the dictators. Yeah. "Go Girl Crazy." ♪ I'm the type of guy who's in to get high ♪ ♪ On a Friday afternoon ♪ Which was one of the first punk records out there. He wanted to call it Teenage News, which I thought was a stupid name. What's the connection between comic books and rock and roll? It's pop culture. Yeah, so it's a pop culture. It's like basically a magazine. And bad TV talking about what's happening. But we wanted to write about pop culture and rock and roll, which they didn't think you know, which was kind of the soundtrack. And this was before we'd even been to CBGBs. You know, I decided to call a punk because I was in love with Mad Magazine. Yeah. And I thought we could start the new Mad Magazine, which is what I wanted to do. So that was what you were inspired by. Were you, what was your writing experience? Like as a kid in high school, were you interested in writing? Obsessed with writing? Were you interested in journalism? Were you interested in talking to people? I was extremely dyslexic. So I learned, I had to learn how to learn again, which took a process, which homes from helped me out with. He hired me when I was in high school to write some comic strips that he had this comic strip called Joe. So we'd get paid, I think, $300. And that bought a lot of beer and cigarettes. So that was my introduction to being a published writer. But I also worked for the school newspaper and got arrested for breaking it. We had a jail in our town called Cheshire Reformatory. I think it's now called Cheshire Maximum Security Prison. But I broke into it because they wouldn't give me an interview. And I took a picture and they arrested me for that. Those people are trying to break out. I know, but I was going like, wait a minute, we have this prison in our town and no one knows about it. So I want to know what's going on. So for you, it's a curiosity and trying to understand things combined with, wait, maybe I could make a little bit of money doing this. Well, I wanted to be a writer, but I didn't think I would ever be qualified. It's about having the curiosity combined with sort of the will to say, let me just figure this out, because it happens. Well, it wasn't always so clear. There was mostly a home strum who taught me how to taught me narrative structure, beginning a middle and ending. So it was basically John Holmes from, who was the editor, it was basically John Holmes from Spunk Magazine. And he, he's the one that taught me how to write. So you guys come to New York, when do you realize that there's something going on at CBGB? That you could document. He said, let's go see this band. They're playing at CBGB's on the Bowery called The Ramones. And they were black leather jackets like the dictators. And I thought, OK, well, anything, if they sound at all, it sounded like they sounded like the dictators. And we took Mary Heron, who later directed American Psycho and I shot Andy Warhol in a bunch of other movies. We took her, we went, stopped by this hippie film commune I used to work at, and Mary was one of the cooks. She made doing it, and she was Canadian, and she was really, really pale. So I thought she'd be a good writer. She looked really unhappy, you know? So I thought, oh, she'll be a perfect writer, because I couldn't write the magazine. I wasn't qualified enough, you know? So we went to CBGB's, and that was the night we met Lou Reed and interviewed Lou Reed. And he called me an asshole. Why did Lou Reed call you an asshole? Probably because he wouldn't let me have a bite of his cheeseburger. I had an experience with Lou Reed, where he didn't call me an asshole, but he'd call my friend an asshole when we were in high school. He just had a restaurant down here. And I went into the bathroom, and he was there taking a leak. And I was next to him, and I was like, oh, my God, it's Lou Reed. I didn't say anything to him. I left and told my friend Lou Reed's in the bathroom. And he went into the bathroom, he said, "Lou Reed." And he's like, "Get out of here, you asshole." It was you, wasn't your friend. I was just trying to make this up. I swear to God, I was too, I was afraid. I was afraid to stop him and talk to him. Now, maybe a different story, rest in peace, Lou Reed. Okay, I'm gonna play another song for you. ♪ Don't worry, baby, that's where I live ♪ ♪ Don't worry, I just hope you've got a kill ♪ ♪ Don't worry, baby, that's where I live ♪ - Great album. Tell me about the dead boys. - They were fun. - Yeah. - Stiff was always fun. - Yeah. - Yeah. - That song, and here, like, do you remember hearing them? - Well, I remember when they pulled up in a mill truck from Ohio. They had met the Ramones before, so I was with Joey and Arturo. We loaded their equipment into Arturo's loft. Basically, how they met the Ramones was. They opened for them. They asked the dead boys to show them the way to the highway, to the entrance to the highway, and Stiff climbed out naked onto the roof of the, no, onto the hood of the car. He was always doing shit like that, you know? That's, so that's where the times were like. - Yeah, I was gonna say, can you describe the sort of atmosphere and the scene? I mean, this is an earlier book. When is this from? - This book is now 30 years old this year. It was published in 1996 and Hardback, and the paperback came out in 1997. So this is 30 years old this year. - The scene, the world that's described just in that book, of that much of it takes place right around this neighborhood. It's very different from how this neighborhood looks and feels now. - Yeah, well, can you describe a little bit what the scene and what the atmosphere was like, and how that connected to the approach that you guys took with Punk Magazine? - New York City was like a war zone. - Yeah. - No one wanted to live here. It was the end of white flight. It was only minorities and misfits like us that wanted to be here. And there was, I mean, the streets were, I mean, taking the cab over the street are filled with kids, you know? It wasn't then. The streets were empty at night, especially on the bowry except for the bombs, you know? - So CBGB is in the middle of the bowry, which at the time was a place where there were lots of homeless and drug addicts and alcohol exempts. - Literally, that's like, yeah. - Didn't you sing the bowry on the bowry, the bowry? They say such things and they do such things on the bowry, the bowry. I'll never go there anymore. - It was known as a drunk place. - Yeah. - It was known where alcohol extended us. - And do you think it's connected? The fact, I guess the bar, the rent was cheap, so it was an easy place. And because the rent was cheap, - No, no, no, no, no. - Did it take chances? - Hell, he did a very smart thing. He only allowed bands to play that wrote original music. And there were no places except for Max's Kansas City that you could play where you wrote your own material. Everything else was a cover band. So it was that. - But Max's is like near Union Square. It was a lot nicer there. - Yeah, you had to have a little bit of money for those to go to. - Closer to Grammar C Park for his being on the bowry. It's a big cultural sort of difference. Even though you can go back and forth in a 10 minute walk. - Or a five minute cab. - Yeah, you could go back and forth all night. - But so how did that danger or that feeling of like, do you feel dangerous to me at all? - Yeah, I just loved it. It felt like a giant movie set where all the adults had left. and then the asylum was being run by the lunatics. - Yeah. - So Valkyrie. - So I guess what I'm getting at is that must've informed the work that you were doing with Punk Magazine. It's like you look around and there's just so much interesting unique culture that's happening around you that isn't happening anywhere else. 'Cause it is sort of like a fun house. - Things were happening, yeah, yeah, yeah. Things were happening that were interesting. CBGB was especially interesting because everybody there was smart. - Yeah, and the conversations on CBGBs were brilliant. You know, you talked about books and music, you talked about great B-sides and great books that you should be reading. You know, have you read Ubertselvy, Jr.'s last exit to Brooklyn? And, you know, it was a wonderful meeting place for all these people who wanted to be in bands and be artists to drink and pick each other up. (upbeat rock music) - Such a great song. Suicide. - Not bad. - There were great. - The reason that I played Suicide is you were making the connection sort of between art and music, people who were artists and intellectuals and the outlet became music. And that was sort of, feels like it was kind of the case with Suicide, not necessarily trained musicians. - Yeah, Alan Allen had been a sculptor before him. - And played the trumpet before he decided. I think he took acid and saw Iggy and that really changes whole world, seeing Iggy Pop, you know. - What do you think it was about rock and roll that became like the de facto form of art that was so attractive to this group of people? - Well, I think we all grew up with great rock and roll on the top 40 radio and when we became a Vage, there wasn't any great rock and roll. It was all journey and, you know, these horrible bands, Boston, you know, bands that you never want to listen to. And people still don't want to listen to. And shouldn't listen to. And people were finally playing 60's garage music and we just happened to call punk. But none of the bands sounded alike. You know, it was just everybody had the same attitude which was kind of like, fuck you. You know, I'm going to do what I want. That was why it was called punk. It wasn't because they all sounded alike. You know, they all sounded as different as night and day. - Talking heads. - Talking heads. - It's different from dead boys. - And from the mans and from the heartbreakers. - And they're artists. - Yeah. - They come from art school and decide to sort of enter the same world. - There was a school of visual arts, where Christine and John Holmes from both went. And there were just people who wanted to come to New York and live, you know, kind of like in Batman, in Gotham City, you know, which it was very much like Gotham City and that, you know, silhouettes of alleyways and silhouettes and these gorgeous buildings and everything kind of film noir. It was very film noir. The railroad tracks on 10th Avenue and 30th Street that went over the top, which is now the Highline. And now it's the tourist thing, you know, they made everything into a tourist thing. But back in the '70s, it looked very, very much like film noir and it was very black and white. - Yeah. - And it was gorgeous. - Yeah. - It was how you imagined. - There was another band that exploded, that sort of claimed a lot of the punk movement to themselves, but they were from somewhere else. ♪ My life, my life, no more ♪ - The Sex Pistols. - Sex Pistols. - I was at the last Sex Pistols show. I was with the Ramones and Holmstrom and Roberta, Roberta Bailey, who was our photographer at punk magazine, also collected the money at the door at CBGB, who you recently interviewed. - Did she do this picture? - Yeah, of course she did. Yeah, yeah. - Okay. - Yeah. - And Roberta and John were on the whole tour. And they kept calling me and saying, "Meet us in San Francisco. There's a hotel waiting for you." And I didn't want to go. 'Cause I-- - Why did they want you to come? 'Cause they just thought it was an interesting cultural phenomenon. - They thought I would love Sid Vicious. - Yeah. - And he said, "You love Sid Vicious, he's just like you." And I said, "The guy's a fucking idiot." What do you mean? He's just like you. - And he had carved into his-- - He had carved, he had done everything, you know? And he had tried to shoot up heroin with a fish hook. I mean, he was, you know, Sid was a night pair. - Yeah. - And he was dumb too, you know? - Yeah, he wasn't well read or, you know? - But as a sort of documentarian of this scene in the times, they wanted me to see it in his interviews. - They wanted me to interview Sid. - Yeah, interview him. - Which I never did thank God. But I was there and the show was horrible. It was horrible. It didn't sound good, sounded like sloppy and they weren't happy. - No, they weren't happy. They could tell they weren't there. The gnome was talking to each other and Sid had picked up, had gotten the roadies to grab four girls out of the audience. They were all standing around him, giggling, going, "Oh, Sid." And he was sitting there with a shirt off and, you know, the carves on and he goes, "Who's gonna fuck me tonight?" - It was gross. - It was disgusting. - Yeah. - The girls goes, "Don't I get a kiss first?" And I thought, "Oh, this is heartbreaking." You know, and it was the end. So the reason that I'm interested in asking you about this exercise is because I loaded up my black leather jacket with a six pack of Heineken's 'cause they had Heineken's and garbage bags with ice. - Yeah. - You know, I'm the big green. - So you got something out of it. - I got a six pack of Heineken's and I grabbed a can opener. - Yeah, of course I didn't. - But the reason that it's interesting for me to ask you about this exercise is they feel almost like a reflection of the scene that was happening. - No, they felt like they didn't have a grasp of America that America overwhelmed them and they didn't have a clue of what was going on. - Which they didn't have a clue because Sid and Johnny were left to ride on the bus and Paul and Steve were good fly from gig to gig and stay in hotels. So they were wrong to get rid of Glenn Matlock, who wrote all the songs and was the best sex pistol besides Johnny's voice. I mean, it was Johnny's voice and Glenn Matlock's songs that made it, you know, 'cause Malcolm came over here and heard Richard L and heard blank generations. ♪ I was sayin' let me out of here before I was even born ♪ ♪ It's such a gamble when you get a thing ♪ - And he went back to England and he formed the sex pistols and he said, "Right, your own bloody version "of blank generation," and they wrote pretty vague. ♪ Where I've been taken off, I'm ready ♪ - That's how that came about. - Yeah, I guess my point is that these sex pistols feel like they're trying to be like a New York punk band. - Well, they were trying to do that. - Or Malcolm was trying to make them that. - No one was trying to be punk in New York, you know, the reminds were the politis guys in the world, you know? The talking heads were preppies from RISD, you know? The heartbreakers were junkies, you know, but Patty Smith was a poet. So no one was trying to be a punk. People just were, you know, either were you aren't, you know? - Exactly, but they knew how to behave in social situations and as most of us did, you know? - Yeah, and I think that's what's interesting is it's like, almost becomes this. - Well, what was it? - Alternate universe. - It was a joke, but was a joke started as a joke here. They took seriously in England, yeah. - Yes. - And it's almost like being hyped up on purpose, right? The tour, the tour of America is interesting as a cultural realm because they're trying to make it this big show. - Well, Malcolm, the first Sex Mistletes tour was called Anarchy in the UK and they hired the heartbreakers for punk credibility to open the show, which was Johnny Thunders from The New York Dolls and Jerry Nolan and Walter Lure and they, and I forget the bass player. I'm sorry, I forget your name, but. ♪ I'm living on a Chinese rock ♪ ♪ All my best things are in high ♪ ♪ I'm living on a Chinese rock ♪ ♪ Everything is in the watch of it ♪ - The heartbreakers. - Great song. - Great song. - That's Chinese rock, right? - Yeah. - That was written by D.D. Ramon and Richard Hell and Richard Hell would only put in one verse, which was, "It's hot as a bitch, I should have been rich." Now I'm just digging a Chinese ditch, you know? The heartbreakers went over there to London. They recorded a track, records, and they did the song. And Johnny and Jerry put their name on it that they had written it and they had not written a word of it. It's just that the Ramon's version was produced by Phil Spector, which is horrible version of Chinese rock. ♪ I'm living on a Chinese rock ♪ ♪ All my best things are in high ♪ - So it became the heartbreakers theme song, but D.D. was really pissed that they had included their names on a song he wrote with Richard Hell. - Is there a person who you enjoyed spending time with and sort of talking to or interviewing the most? Is there someone from the scene? - Well, my best friend at the time was Joey Ramon. So Joey and I hung out all the time. - And what did you guys do? What did you talk about? What was interesting? - Well, mostly talked about women, old rock and roll songs besides, and what was cool and what wasn't. - Movie? - TV shows? - Yeah, we loved watching the Marytime. Well, on Monday nights was Sardition nights, which was a horrible CBGB. So you didn't want to go see a new band. 'Cause they were always shit, you know. And so we'd stay home at our terrors, and we'd go out drinking and go, of course, and come back. There would be two half hour Marytiler moors at I think two o'clock, one or two o'clock in the morning, so you could watch two Marytiler moors. And we used to call it Ted. And Joey would always say, "You want to watch Ted?" - And I'd go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know." And so, 'cause we loved Ted Baxter, who was the outrageous newscaster or the narcissistic newscaster. And so we'd sit back and we'd watch the Marytiler moorshow. This was before we were getting girls on a regular basis. - Is that about TV? - Yeah. ♪ We Detroit for part two ♪ ♪ Maybe, baby, I could fly with you ♪ - It's a blondie. Detroit for part two. Feel out to go like Jimmy L. - I was just with Chris before, yeah. - Yeah, and he wrote the introduction to my book, Chris Stein, who was Debbie's boyfriend for the entire creative partner. - Yeah, right. - Well, they wrote their songs together, yeah. - So tell me about your relationship with Chris and with blondie and how they sort of were. And I always, blondie is a pretty fascinating group for me in this scene, 'cause they're the ones that sort of became well. - Well, it was amazing about Debbie and Chris and blondies, they sucked in the beginning. They were the worst band at CBGBs. And you'd get, and they would play every two weeks to opening for the Ramones, and you saw them get better and better and better. And then suddenly CBGBs got this new sound system. And you could hear Debbie's local, which was great, you know, and suddenly they became this fantastic band in front of your eyes. And it would, you'd never got to see that, you know? You never got to see somebody evolve into something that was so good, you know? And it was fascinating to watch, 'cause every time you saw them, they got better and better. - How many years did you spend in this scene, like going to CBGBs? - Oh, probably from about 75 to about 79. - Yeah, so in that time, blondie stands out to you as a band that really grew. And you're talking about consistently going all the time, multiple nights per week, and seeing music all the time, and seeing all the same bands over and over again. - Well, you either went to Max's or CBGBs or you went to both. - Yeah, and blondie, or sometimes you went to the power, you went to New Jersey or you went to New Haven, or you went to my father's place, you know, you went with the band. - And blondie really does stand out to you as a band that you watch them in this scene sort of a send and get better and better, and you cracked it. - And well, I also saw the Ramones get better and better. - Who else stands out to you musically in that scene, in that era, who were bands that you felt like were really special? - Oh, the velvet underground. - He had a sound. - He had a sound. - He went up in the stooges and the MC5, you know, and then Devo came in and B-52s came in. And you know, people were coming in and doing stuff, and they were doing stuff that was interesting, you know? - I mean, everybody started coming in. - Yeah. - I went back there after I got sober, when I stopped drinking in 1988 just to hang out because some friends were hanging out there. And it was like my living room, and I knew everybody. And, you know, I just drank coax, and I remember my sponsor, saying, "What are you doing at CBGB's, it's a bar." And I said, "Oh, come on, it's like my living room." You know, and he said, "Oh, okay." You know, and he realized that I wasn't there to drink. - Besides hanging out and having a couple beers or whatever, what else? - A couple. A couple, I drank all the beer. - Every single beer, but would you have an notebook? - With Joey. - Joey was so tall, he could reach over the bar and steal the beers. - That's all you're looking at. - He was like, "Joey, give me a beer." Just see, he was so, he was six foot, six, I think. You know, he was just so tall, and he could grab the beers. And he was, Joey was the best. Although we got pissed off at me for going to see the sex vessels. - Oh, legs wants to come. See how the, oh legs is hanging out. It was his new best friend, the sex vessels. - Yeah, they gave me shit for that for years, you know? Deserid, maybe? - No, I hated the sex vessels, except for Glenn Matlock. - But you had to. It was part of your job, and plus I picked up the reception as a playboy, and I brought her with me. So I had, you know, something to occupy my time when I wasn't watching the horrible sex vessels. - What, so, what would you do? - When you were, let's say you were going to CBGB for the night and having more than a couple of beers, like, did you have a notebook? Were you taking, taking, - No, you didn't have a notebook? What the fuck are you talking about? I don't want to go back to high school. I didn't graduate from high school. I didn't want to fucking do everything. - So what happens when you wake up in the morning? How does it translate into the magazine? - I probably always brought a tape recorder. - Yeah. - When I did it, what I was doing interviews. - Yeah, I always did tape. - So, so, like, the set tapes on a cassette recorder, you know, they were easy to use and they always worked and they had omnidirectional microphones and they picked up every sound. They were fantastic. - Yeah, so I wanted to dig into this a little bit more and hear more about this. Like, how would you, will your process for getting something like that? - I went and interviewed Richard Hell once at Max's and I passed out and Richard kept talking into the tape recorder and he goes, "Legs, I think you need to go back to interviewing school," you know, and he was saying stuff like that. He was being very, very funny. And then, "Well, Legs, it doesn't seem like you're gonna wake up too soon, so I'm gonna go." You know, he was saying stuff like that into the tape recorder. - So what happens the next day with the tapes? - I had, I left the tape recorder at Max's and I had to go back to Max's to get the and Mickey Ruskin was so pissed at me 'cause I'd passed out, you know, at his one of his tables, you know, and he gave me the tape recorder and yelled at me and I brought it back to the magazine and Holmes, and Roberta were laughing his statement. But I think Roberta transcribed it and she was laughing so hysterically because it was such a funny interview. - Yeah, it was a great interview. - So you would go out and you'd have these conversations and you'd record them in the next day, you'd be hanging out at the punk office. - Yeah, if I didn't leave the tape recorder behind I had to go back and pick it up. - So what was the office like? - It was a used auto part store. It was horrible. It had no shower, which was good for meeting girls because you could say, "Hey, we don't have a shower "in our office, do you mind if I take a shower at your house?" And then you could just move in, you know? So that's what I did. - And what was the atmosphere like in the office? Like what was the work part of it? - The classroom was always at his drawing table. And you could go and stand behind him and see it. And you saw the first issue come together. That's when I knew it was working. When he did the Lou Reed interview, Lou Reed had talked about all the cartoonist he loved and John did it in each style of each cartoonist he was talking about, like Wallace Woodie drew it, like Wallace Wood, you know, it was fantastic. And that's when I knew it was gonna work. - And then like, what was the reaction like when he released it? - Well, like how many people? - We were at it and we were at it. - We were collating it by hand. Which means we had to put it together. And we had a printer down on and so on. The Ramones were supposedly playing with the heartbreakers at Sea of Clouds. And I folded up 10 of them and I brought 10. And people were grabbing them out of my hands when I was walking up house. And there weren't that many people on house then, you know. So it was kind of shocking, you know. There was like an interest in-- - Well, and then I brought it to Joey and Danny Fields. Mary Herron had done the center fold on the Ramones in the first issue. And Danny Fields turned to me and said, "Legs, can I get you a beer?" And at a home's room, because when the home's room said, let's start a magazine, I said, "That's a stupid idea." You know, you know, why should-- Why would he say, "Well, people will want to hang out with us." 'Cause no one want to hang out with us." He said, "And people will buy us drinks." And I thought, "Oh, okay, all right, I'll do it on that." When I brought the magazine and Danny said, "Legs, can I get you a beer?" I thought, "Oh, home's room was right." You know, people did buy us, get us beers, you know. So, I mean, I basically was a teenage alcoholic freak up who couldn't, you know, tie his own shirt. shoes, which is why I never worked high shoes. So, why this now? That's a good question. I had been writing different parts of it over the years and publishing it, and I wanted to get it into a single book, but they didn't give me enough space. You know, I would have written, you know, it's only 300 pages, I think. And so, I had to make it into kind of snapshots of different phases of my life, which is what I did. And I guess in this, this is like one of the most important music books ever, I think. One of the most, like, go love it. But there's no music in it. I hate music. Stop saying music. But, but there's no music in it, but there's not that much of you in this. It's not, you know what I mean? You didn't get to, and is it part of it? You telling me. I just have my walk-on more restart punk magazine. Yeah. Name the movement. Yeah. And that's it. But this is a chance to really tell your story a little bit more to you. Yeah. If anyone cares to read about what a fuck up I was, you know, do you think, you think that there were a lot of fuck ups. That was kind of like a bunch of the miss the land of the misfit toys or something that got together and made just a lot of great work. Yes. But I was an obvious fuck up. You know, I was sloppy and drunk and a mess, you know. And yet you still managed to keep it together enough to did I? Did I? Yeah. I guess I did. All right. Well, thanks for coming. Was it okay? Was I all right? Really good. Oh, well, it was funny. It was funny because you do this like this joke thing about all the music. It's not, but then when I play the songs, you're singing along to every word. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I do. I love that music because it reminds me of the time and hanging out with the dead boys and hanging out with Joey and hanging out with the Ramones. And I love the 60s pop. You know, that was really more my music. But I don't know music now. I don't know. I don't think I've ever heard a Taylor Swift song. You know, do you want me to play? No, no, no, please don't. No. I mean, God bless her. I hope she does, you know, does well. And the book, the book's out. It's coming out September 15th. And I'm doing a reading at the rough trade underneath Rockefeller Center on September 15th. And we're having a big party at the nine Orchard Street Hotel. And it's free. And everybody should come to the nine Orchard Street Hotel on Wednesday, the 23rd of September. Well, we'll have a great time. I think. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm great to talk to you. Thanks. Tracks, our podcast is a presentation of public opinion created by me, Jack Coyne, Kirin Coyne, and Henry Coynaros, produced by Haley Sobel, edited by Simone Warnoff, theme and original composition by Kirin Coyne, mixing by Devon Coyne. Our agent is Joanne Orland at UTA. Thanks for listening. See you next Wednesday.