Telling Your Story: Putting your Coercive Control Experiences in Writing

Are you being subjected to coercive control by your ex? And people have told you it's fine, it's great they're now recognizing coercive control. But you have no idea how to actually show it in your documentation. Well, today's episode is going to be great for you because we are going to be talking about how to document and how to present your pattern or your experience in affidavits or at mediation, or when you go and see a lawyer or when you go see the police. Welcome, Mum. Hello, Laura. Hi, everyone. Now, today, Mum, we've had so many people ask, thanks for all your episodes about post-separation abuse and coercive control, but they all freak out when they get to mediation or trying to explain it to a lawyer or trying to put it in an affidavit because how do you, when there's, when it can sometimes be so much that your brain's just a big pile of mosh. It's a lot, isn't it? It is a lot. And it's often a coercive control is a pattern of behavior. So you can't just really point to one incident. So it's a lot for you to go through. And they can continue to go through after separation as well. So we're going to get in today to talk about the Family Law Act and the section of the act that you need to keep your eye on if you're going through family court or dealing with in family law with other family lawyers or in mediation. And then we're going to talk about the steps that Mum suggests a way to document it and present it in a way that someone who's reading it will understand what your lived experience was or get a basic group so on it because sometimes you've only got 10 pages. But let's get to our jingle and then let's get started. Hello, I'm Laura Furio, C Divorce Mother of Three. And I'm here with my mother, Lynette Galvin, with 35 years experience in Family Law. You're listening to the Divorce Course Podcasts through our candid discussions. We hope to help you through your divorce or de facto separation. We will be answering the most commonly asked questions and covering the stages and steps that you will face on your way to freedom. And just a reminder before we get started, this is legal education only. This is not legal advice. Everybody's situation is different. You must always go and see a lawyer or a community legal service advisor to get some help as this is legal education. And we're not liable for anything that you do when it comes to your actual case. Let's get into this. Those of you who are in a different country, talking about the Family Law Act may not be as relevant to you. So feel free to skip ahead. But if you are in Australia, knowing this bit is going to help you incredibly. Why is it important, Mum, that people know about the Family Law Act when it comes to this part of it? Well, because the judges know it, they know the Family Law Act very well. And you may have people, including your ex-ass lawyer, say to you, that it doesn't matter, there's nothing in that. It's just minor. So you've got to get your point across to the police, like you said, maybe to the mediator, to the judges, and for you to hold firm, if you know it's in the Family Law Act, you know that's what the judges are going to follow. So you can be strong against people who maybe tell you it's not important, maybe even your own lawyer. Well, that's, I was just about to say, we have had some members who've said, look, I've told this to my lawyer, and they've said it doesn't really matter. So that's when someone who has a lawyer who does that can then take this part of the Family Law Act and print it out and put it on their desk and go, "But it says it does matter." So perhaps maybe pay some more attention to this. So, Mum, the Family Law Act 1975, Section 4AB, definition of Family Violence, which you think is really important to highlight here. It's the definition of Family Violence, which we're going to put a link to, we'll have it print out of us well for Patreon, people if they need it. But for the purpose of this act, Family Violence means violence, threatening, or behaviour by a person that coerces or controls a member of the family, the family member, or causes the family member to be fearful. And then it lists a whole bunch of examples. Oh, stack of examples. Yeah. And it's important, whilst this defines Family Violence, the behaviour that you are proving has an impact in children's matters, and but it also can have an impact in property matters if you can draw a connection between the violence yourself and your contributions being that much harder because of that. All right. And then part two has the examples of behaviour that may constitute as Family Violence. So they say it's include but not limited to. That means it doesn't have to be everything. Okay. And before we go through this, if you are suffering and you feel like you may be triggered, please reach out to 1-800-RESPECT or if you are feeling triggered by this, please call Lifeline so that you can get the support you need. And if you feel like you can't go through this, then maybe get a friend to watch it for you. Yeah. And also sometimes going through this list, a person may realise for the very first time that they have been the victim of Family Violence because we've had the old fashioned idea of bruises and things, but this is a very insidious form of violence that the court talks about here. Now today we're not going to be talking about each part of these. We're just highlighting this for you so that when we talk about how to present this in your documents, you can use that to as a guide. Yep, to sort of set out your effort, David. Use the headings. Yep. Yeah. So the examples are an assault, sexual assault, stalking, repeated derogatory taunts, intentional damaging or destroying property, intentionally causing death or injury to an animal, unreasonably denying the Family Member the financial autonomy that he or she would otherwise have, unreasonably withholding financial support, needed to meet the reasonable living expenses of the Family Member, or his or her child at the time when the Family Member is entirely or predominantly dependent on the person for financial support. Next one is preventing the Family Member from making or keeping connections with his or her family or culture. The next one is unlawfully depriving the Family Member of member of the family, of his or her liberty, and then we go into things for the children. So let's just focus on those ones for the moment. Is there anything you want to say about those before we get into how to present that court? Because they're the ones they're really looking for, aren't they? They are. I think these are the things that are extra over and about what is commonly understood as Family Violence. So they've gone on to make the definitions and examples to make all of us aware that it's just more than these, because it says number one for the purposes of the Family Member of this act, it's threatening or other behaviour to a person, that coercive person, or controls a person. But some of those things you might not have thought were Family Violence. You know, it can be very subtle, and it can realise it can come up slowly as you get your distance from the situation. Yes. So it is a great idea if you're interested in exploring those other types or exploring what these are all about. We've done some great episodes that you can go and listen to. I will put the show notes, the link in the show notes, or you can always email us, comment below and we can give that to you. So you can go and listen to them where we go through examples in detail. We have had a lot of listeners say, thank you for doing that, because it did bring things up that I had wiped out of my memory or tried to forget. And it is important to put all this down because coercive control is a pattern. And one incident doesn't seem so bad, but when you put it in the context of everything it does. That's right. It's not until you see it documented, listed down that it really hits home. Yeah. So the first part, before we go into how to document it exactly, talk about making their lived experience come alive, like making it be understood. So is it all about storytelling? It is a little bit, isn't it? And however, that because it's a pattern of behaviour, it could be a very repetitive story if one was to follow it all the way through. So it is storytelling to make an example to the coach show, this is what it was like. And then it's kind of working out the frequency and the impact that it had on you and so forth, that you need to tell the court as well. So I guess if people are listening today to try and think about it as you're not writing like your life story memoir because everybody is going to not off making that impact. And it's true, they're just going to glaze over and stop reading or it's not going to, whereas if you summarise it and put it all in succinct, factual numbered times, dates, patterns, frequency, all of that we're going to talk about, it'll punch them in the face, they won't get sleepy and they'll really get it and they'll go, "Whoa, when you put it that way, that's you." And that's happened to you before, hasn't it, Mum? Were you being a court and they weren't thinking it was such a big deal and then you listed out how many times the person had done it? Yes, and that wasn't in the family court, it was in a court for family violence. And of themselves, EG Mal didn't seem too bad at each text, but when I was able to explain to the court how many had been said in a course of three months, that was the case, that's what happened. And then the court found that was definitely a pattern of behaviour and definitely. had gone beyond reasonable communications. So it's a delicate line. I don't think people fall asleep, but so much, but I do think it's easy to dismiss it because if you're doing your property settlement, for example, everyone wants to know the valuations and disclosure and what percentage you're getting, a story about what you suffered during a relationship can get lost in all the more mechanical things because this is kind of intangible. It's not a thing that you can get valued, but if you tell your story like you say, a good story, but not too long. An example, and then I think chronology or documenting about that's just in dot points, I guess. Okay. So let's talk about that. So firstly, it's really important to look at the things we've talked about from the Family Law Act and how to look at those and consider using them as headings because you're not putting it all together, you're going to separate it and go, all right, I'm going to talk about financial abuse and I'm going to talk about what's happened in that situation. Then you're going to do the next, the process that we're talking about and you're going to do it for physical assault and then you're going to do it for repeated being derogatory taunts. So you're going to do this same process for each of those types. If you've got the spates, okay, and if they apply, I mean, I have cases where financial abuse is not part of this couple's story. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, but there are other elements of abusive behaviour. Yeah. So basically, you've got a chunk at into categories, really. And to start with, Mum, you've said in the past, it's good to just kind of list it all out, get it all out and then go through and summarise and do this process. Yeah. Yeah. I reckon I would do that because it's going to kind of be stream of consciousness a little bit and you get it down. And I think that it's important isn't to remember, some people will need the detail. In some circumstances, you will need all that detail. In other circumstances, it's just going to be a summary and in other circumstances, like if you're doing an affidavit for court, a family court, you would want to put an example to give the flavour and veracity to it and then it's chronology sort of thing that goes with it. Yeah. In their chronology, say it's, I don't know, they keep damaging their property. They keep damaging the property. So what kind of, what do you mean by a chronology? Can you give us an example of what they would put down? Okay. So if you're in the affidavit, I'll do a heading of family violence and then say it's destroying a property. I'd go section 4, say, yep, and do I'd use the words of that heading. So intentionally destroying property or damaging property. And then you would say, since I don't know, maybe since separation, my car has been had following incidences or damage that I've received. For instance, when I went to my doctor's appointment when I came out, my tire was down or when I parked it, my girlfriend's place, the badge hooded badge came off my Mercedes or just odd things that you may or may not be able to prove that they did it, but on the balance of probabilities, it was them. For instance, you might say, I didn't see him or her do it, but I saw her car just up the road as I drove out or they sent me a text afterwards going, what's happened to your car, that sort of thing. So you list those are important. And that would be so you'd say about the choice and the difficulty, what at court, I had to go and get it repaired. It's cost me over $300 on each occasion. And I felt it. Let's just talk about the chronology. So done the chronology. So that includes putting in if they did it just before court or if they did it, just after you reported them to the police. And like said, you might not have the proof because we do have people saying, oh, they let my tires down, they let my tires down again, again. And you can't prove all of those things. But if you put it in and say, look, pretty sure it is this person, someone's such that they saw them or whatever. And it always happens around this time. And here's a photo of the flat tires that when we'll talk about evidence in a minute. So that from the chronology, is it then a good idea to do the frequency? So how many times it's happened and do it like this? Yeah. So how do you do that bit? Yeah, I think you would. So you once you've written your whole big blurb out just for you and you're extracting it, you might not know exact dates. So when you do your timeline, you might put in mid-albus, I had my tires repaired three times. And you can prove attached is the bill for the repair of my tires. And I'm calling as a witness, the fellow who repaired my tires, as to the likelihood of tires on my car going down that often in that space at time. And I've just done something recently where that carried a little bit of weight actually. I let us say this is a bit unreasonable. Yeah. So I think that's how you would put it down. And you'd put down frequency, like it's been eight times since separation. So they put in the frequency. And I get the good part about that, you might say, oh, look, my tires have been laid down. This is just an example. We're just going to pick on tires being laid down. My tires have been laid down so many times. I can't even remember. I can't remember. That's not going to help you when doing this. So there is an app called Arc. I know it's available in Australia. And it's on your phone. You can type it in. It gives the date. You can literally take a photo and it documents it for you and you put it out and it will when, where, how then all you have to do is look it up on your app and go, okay, I can put those ones in. If you, it is really important to have the frequency and the dates and the amounts that it's happened. And you might think, oh, look, I've got, like Mum was doing that case, which you've got 300 emails or whatever and three months. How are you going to keep an eye on that? Well, put it in that app. And it will summer on for you as well. So keep that in mind if you're not documenting. And we've got a great episode called Record Keeping. And that is a really great episode. I strongly recommend you go listen to that. But let's get into the next bit, Mum. So we talk about pattern. Yes. Impact. So you were starting to talk about impact. So you've summarised it. You've done a little chronology. You've talked about the frequency. Then how do you talk about the impact? Yeah, it's all the eye statements that you say. As a result of this behaviour, I felt, you know, unsafe or eye was put to extra expenditure. Or it was that much harder to get the kids to soccer or wherever because of the ties. So how you felt, frustrated, it made it hard. I've been upset, you know, by these things. And then I guess was it frequency or the pattern? Yeah. So I think letting down ties, we've got a little bit on to that as an example. But patterns of behaviour, a very insidious during a relationship. So remembering that if every time you want to go and visit your family, there's some sort of price to pay. Like, you know, when you get home, there's going to be complaints from the other person about you visiting the family. And in the end, you might have thought, "I'll just go and see them when that person's not around." So the impact on you might have been that as a result, I'm not as close to my family. I missed my sister's wedding or my family turned on me. I had no one to turn to when I was being abused. Mums referring to the section of the actor, which is for a, b and number one, sorry, to I, preventing the family member from making or keeping connections with his or her family or culture. So when it comes to evidence of that mum, interdepth on all the ways that you can be cohesively controlled, go listen to those episodes, I'll put the links in the show notes. Mum, so there's a lot of different types that you can refer to in the Family Law Act. And say they've done a little chronology, a little summary, talked about the frequency, talked about the impact for each thing, or each type of coercive control or family violence. And what happens if, for example, like that person that got the 300 emails, do they put all 300 emails as evidence attached at the back? No. No? Yes. What kind of evidence can you put? I guess you just say it as you say it. So you give that example of when I, you when I, that time I drove in sure enough, he started or she started yelling at me the minute I got out of the car. And as for when it happens, how do you put that in a timeline? I think you can do it something like at Christmas time, for instance, I did this or in Easter, where when I did my birthdays were always spent alone or I was never able to go to birth at dinners or stuff like that that you could show. And also it's not, it's not really flagged much, but one of the ways that an abusive person might keep you from your family is moving somewhere, where it's a long way from your family, just to cut that nexus. So yeah, that's all things that you might have been not sure about moving. And they coerced you into it. And then. So and again, we have really gone, we didn't in that case in particular, we had it ready to tender to the court. And if you've got things, for example, if you have reported to the police frequently, different acts that have been done, the way you get that to the court is probably subpoena the police records, show that it's there. That's the way. But the court is going to keep you, excepted a trial, the court's going to keep you to your number limits, 10 pages and 10 and extra. So one of the ways to do it is put an example in your affidavit under your head and say abusive animals, my animals, put an example of what they said and then you can say and a next year too and marked with the letter, whatever it is, is a timetable of dates where this occurred. Probably the animals wasn't really a good example for multiple events. But if it's financial control, you could have that in a chronology and have an example in your affidavit. Do you just say I have proof of all of these things if the court wishes to see it? You're invited to our free webinar. Whether you're stuck at the beginning of deciding to divorce or you're struggling to find your way through the legal jargon and fear of the unknown of the legal process, we are here to empower you to take control. Join us to learn what steps you can take followed by a live Q&A where you get Lynn, my amazing mum and family lawyer accredited specialists, to answer your questions. All you have to do is go to www.thedavourscourse.com.au and click on serve my seat. We'll see you there. Hurry spaces are limited so don't miss out. Registered. And do you just say I have proof of all of these things if the court wishes to see it? That's exactly what to do. You say I have those available for the court should they wish to see it. You disclose it to the other side. They need to know whatever it is you've got and so that they're not surprised or ambushed at trial and sometimes when you show them the evidence you've got, their lawyers may say to them, "Mate, you need to set them." Now let's just reiterate again that mum is not your lawyer. This is just talking about how to write stuff down. It might not be the best approach for you. You need to go see a lawyer make sure what you're doing in your case is good and none of this is legal advice. Please get your own legal advice. Mum, how do people stop themselves from being labeled as crazy if they're after David lists all this stuff and the ex just goes, "But it's all made up she's crazy or he's crazy." So is there a risk of people taking it too far with putting everything in and coming across hyper-focused on these things? Are there any pitfalls people need to be aware of? I guess there are. They need to prove that pattern of behaviour or you need to fit it under one of the categories for affidavits for family violence. If it's property, you need to be able to show relevance to how hard it was for you to contribute. Family wise or how hard it was for you to parent and also you need to show if a person is violent, why that would be bad for the children. So I guess what I'm saying is the document you do for yourself has all of those things in it. And then when you creating your affidavit, depending on the circumstances, you choose which of those to put in. I don't think there's as much calling people crazy now, although we have heard of their own lawyers saying it. Like you said, it doesn't matter much. It's time for us to educate, I think those people. But I think you need to stand up for yourself but don't lose side of the other goal. And that is you're in court to finish property proceedings, you're in court to finish children's matters. So you're not in court to have the family court accuse them of something or it's not a it's an element, but it's not the only element in property and children. So basically what you're saying is the the place for that is usually the DV courts. That's where it's getting them to say, yes, this was DV, whereas in the family court for property, your aim is to show these things have caused me issues. Yes. Therefore, I need more percentage of the property or with kid, these things have caused issues. Therefore, the children should see that person less or there should be different ways of dealing with that person for children. So everything's safe. So you've got to look through the lens of why you're presenting this information. I think you actually just hit on something really great moment. That is you create your own document and have it there. Because if you are going through the family court system or you haven't even got there yet and you're at mediation or you're just seeing a lawyer for the first time or you're negotiating, you need to get all this out of your head and into a document. Yes. And if you get away with just writing it all down once and then you just copy and paste it to different things for different reasons, but you're going to be way less stressed. Whenever time you come up to, oh, I have to put all this detail into this document. Oh, I've got to explain it again to this lawyer. Oh, I've got to take mediation. You can create this document for yourself, doesn't matter where you are in your situation and have it there as a reference material. It's going to save you hours of time and hours of agony. Yep. And also too. Sometimes if someone says to you, this was an important, you might start to doubt yourself and think, oh, did I imagine that you'll be able to go back to that list and go, no, that's exactly what happened. Now, it's not wasted work, Laura, because you've got it all down there. Then David Corts, as you say, may need some of that information. The family, court, property and children's matters may need some of that information or some of that information. But if you end up in a final hearing, you need to brief your barrister properly about what has gone on. And so you can give that entire word document to your lawyers to send to the barrister and they can hear and read your story. And then that will help with cross examination. So it's a big document, make it in word and just send it whenever you need to. Cherry, pick if you're doing your own documents. But be, it's helpful because the barrister will have your whole story at the end. And they will make the choices. Remembering if you are a victim of family violence, that section 102, capital N, capital A of the family law act in Australia means that you should be able to ask the court and the court should give you a barrister and a solicitor for the final hearing. Yeah. And that's really good to know that you're not alone. For the mediation mum, that what I was having this kind of documented pattern of coercive control, how do you present that in mediation? Be helpful in negotiations because holding it back in case you go to court, it seems like a waste. Like it would be like, without a table and go, this is my case. How do you present that kind of thing? Well, I always believe firmly believe in any family violence. You name it and shame it right from the start. The first piece of correspondence you write, you put in that you were the victim of family violence and don't just like you say, keep it in your back pocket and produce it at the last minute because you will look like a bit disingenuous. So winding it back, you're going into mediation. We all know the mediator is not a determinator. They're not going to choose one or the other. They, if they're good, they will be completely impartial. But the value of having this document or a summary of the document or documents of the document, maybe you can like condense and condense it use chat, dpt or whatever that will help that the mediator explain your case to the other side and why perhaps you're not accepting a lower offer and it might not be your ex who hears that from the mediator, but it may be the lawyers talk to the mediators on their own and the mediator can then understand your case and not advocate for you, but at least explain it because if there's family violence, you normally don't want to be in the same room as the other person and the mediators won't want you in the same room by and large and they and even if you're on telling link or whatever zoom or team's meetings or whatever, you don't want to be on at the same time as your abuser. So you will find the mediator is having to go between each room or the short room and hear your story and explain your situation. So yeah, the mediator won't have a month to read it if it's very detailed, but a summary is very helpful. You don't need to produce much evidence, but you might bring one or two to just to show the strength of your case. Right. Now, so we've talked about trying to show that pattern of behavior. If you're in family court or if you're dealing in the family law area, not the DV area because DV area is different in every state. It's a completely different legislation to look at there and different headings you can make. This is for family like this custody property. You make the chronology, you do frequencies. So dates, amounts, times it's happened, a pattern and the timing did it happen just before something or did it always happen this time and then did it happen before during sense and then the impact how did it make you feel and then evidence if you've got it pop that in as well. And like you said, Mum, have that as your document and then summarize it for each different things because there's documents when you're filing in court where you have to talk about family violence. You need to refer to that. You can pop that across. We'll mediate it for your intake. You can say, "Hey, I've got a summary of what I've been through. Do you want to see it?" When you're talking to your lawyer, you can provide that to them and go, "Hi, this is everything I've been through so I don't have to tell you. You can just read it." If you're willing to pay for that. And then moving forwards, affidavits, etc. You can rely on that as well. What are your best tips for presenting this kind of stuff? What are some things people can take away that you've found really helped you get your clients' cases across? Yeah. First of all, context is everything. For those situations and all the timings. The first thing we were taught to do as baristas was create a timeline that where. And I would be looking at those timelines that you've created and slotting them into the court timelines and just seeing where that causality is. But I think that the best tip for me I think is to say, "Make one situation a paragraph and make it live." Say, "Where you were, who was present." Try and remember the words that were said or what action and how you felt. Do that as an example. And then I think working to the annexes at the back. But you're always going to have the causality between the behaviors towards you, the family balance, and your property case. Or the behavior towards you and the children's case. In property, how it made your contribution so much harder. So rather than giving you extra money for your future needs, you're asking the court to give you an extra percentage or 10% or 15, whatever it is because of how hard it was for you during a relationship to just do the things that you did achieve. So the original Canon's case, the lady there from memory injured her shoulder so badly as a result of it. She didn't need her partner did. She wasn't able to continue in her job, which was as a cleaner from memory. And therefore that was the court then gave her a greater initial contribution or a greater contribution share, but they also gave her some future needs extra money. And it was a few years where the court was very strict on that. But now with the newest iteration of family violence, a new understanding of coercive control, then all you can produce that evidence. You don't have to have a physical injury. Tight back to your case and it will, the court will understand even if someone says to you, it's not that important. What do you mean? They just did that? What's that got to do with anything? And I think it's really important that you said, Mum, make sure you put it all down at the beginning. So don't feel like our later on are because I do see people feel bad for dobing their ex in for behaviors. So they want to hold back. They don't want to tell everybody because it's painful to tell people things that have happened to you. I totally understand that. So you need to sit down and really have a big thing and definitely go and listen to our episodes where we list all the types. What ones, what ones happen to you and what ones do you need to bring up with your lawyer or bring up in mediation or in court and list it all down and start from the beginning telling your truth because sometimes some lawyers are just they want to push all that back in a box because they don't have a deal with that. They just want to do property. They just want to do children. Then I want to deal with this other stuff that they think is just meant to be for the DV courts. But that's not the case anymore, isn't it? No, it's front and center now. And I think some people take a while to identify all of the forms of coercion that they were experiencing. Also, some people feel ashamed that they let it get along for so long or if you've been conditioned in a coercive control relationship. Yes, you feel bad about dobbling your partner and you also may feel scared to. You may be afraid to. I think that one of the tests I would suggest people use is your best friend, your best pal who has been there through thick and thin may not have said much about your ex but has stuck through stuck with you throughout. Ask them if some behaviour that you're thinking might be cursed, it can't hold might not. Ask them what they think. Is that weird? And they will probably be able to set you straight because good friends as much as it hurts them will stick by you even when you're pushing them away as a result of some coercion from your spouse and they will watching and we'll know what's going on. So maybe that helps. And if you're not, I know for people like in anything, the urge to procrastinate on writing this sort of stuff down is massive because obviously any kind of big document task does seem insurmountable particularly if you're not a lawyer or if you don't write assignments every day, you don't want to sit down or computer and type but this kind of documentation sitting down and writing this and thinking about it and really putting it down. And even just if it's a stream of consciousness to start with and then getting someone to help you edit it is so valuable because I have noticed a lot of members, someone will file something or a mediation will happen or this and they then got 14 days or they've then got 28 days and they've got to then do it within a small amount of time when maybe they've still taken the kids to school and doing their job and all that whereas if you haven't got a deadline yet, get it all down in your time. Yes. You want to do it so that you're prepared. Yeah and it's the one thing I think that you can do in advance because you're looking backwards and you're talking about what's happening today even if you aren't in court, you can get that done in advance. You can if you've got a reliable dictating system maybe you can do voice detects but check it because some funny things will come in. I think having that as opposed to just saying to your ex's lawyer or but there's family violence, if you put this down as facts and you mail it to them email it to them, slam it on the desk, you do whatever, they see it. It's going to change the discussion and it's going to save money. It's going to stop crazy BS. Is that right mum? I think it will and it also. I mean that's why I want a little bit of context, a little bit of storytelling, that old advertising things, so the sizzle, not the sausage. You want the other people, you want anyone you shot to feel how it was for you and then how then you add how many times that it happened. And when you if you go to court or if the other person goes to court and often a coercively controlling person will have you in court almost before you've left, you know, left the house. Your focus and the court's focus will be valuations identifying the property pool and looking at contribution, looking at future needs and family violence is just one little part of contributions and one little part of perhaps a future needs. And no one says you've got 14 days to get your family violence stuff in. It actually isn't required anywhere. It's just a part of contributions, maybe a part of future needs and it will be very easy to just forget about it, like you're going all practical now and you have to make other people see how it was for you, how it is for you and speaking a truth. I think and I'm not a psychologist, but I've heard that it's quite therapeutic to write it down. Yeah, I've heard that too. We've got to wrap it up because we're getting close to the end. Just to remind that if you are interested in learning about Canon's case, Mum does cases explained on our Patreon account, you can go and become a member on our Patreon and you can listen to her explaining cases if that helps you feel a little better. What do you say to those people and we get these messages a lot where they lose heart, they just feel like no one's hearing them. They've been to mediation, they've been to maybe that led a negotiation's lawyers or they're even like first return dates, stuck in court, they haven't had a trial. What do you say to those people when they feel like they're not being heard? I think maybe go and if you can get a second opinion from another lawyer usually because it may be that your lawyer is telling you that this stuff doesn't matter because maybe it doesn't mean to threshold that it's going to make much difference in your property case or in your children's case. So go and get a second opinion and make sure it's not that your lawyer under values. What if it's the registrar ignoring it? What if it's they're just so focused on like you said valuations and reports and things. No one's actually paying attention to any of that other stuff. Is it fair to say the chickens come home to boost pretty much at trial and that's the only time you're going to feel better? I've heard you say that before. Yeah and that's right. That's every other sort of case in court is usually done without cross examination. So it's that final hearing when you give your barrister your big piece of records. It's been referred to in your affidavit so you can't be accused of just. thinking it up, you know, or only just making up now to give you a better value of the property or to keep the children away. I think at that point it does come home to risk. Registrar's by and large are not making findings about contribution to property. If there's family violence and you are needing to stop it, then you need to go to your state courts and get your intervention orders, family violence orders or whatever it is to protect you if you need it. But if it's just, if not just, I'm sorry guys, but if it's about contributions and relation to property, then as long as you flagged it at the beginning and keep mentioning it all the way through, then the court may or may not take that into account and give you a greater percentage. And family violence with children is a very big part of the best interests of the children. It won't be a trial, usually. I do want to wrap it up there, but I've just, I just realized that we have a lot of people ask this question as well. What have you got too much to show? What have you got so many incidences and so many types? How do you condense it? Because if you're doing an affidavit, it's got to be 10 pages. And if you're going to throw it in the trash, you don't want to send it to, you don't want to send them a 500 page document. So what's your best way of condensing it if you've got too much? All right, so you only have those limits on interim hearings, you can go for goal pretty well for the trial. However, you risk losing the judge when they read through, if the whole, if this is a big chunk in the middle of your affidavit, they'll lose the thread of other contributions. And so you need to summarise it and you need to put that big list in a tender bundle or get some external evidence of it, give it to your barrister for sure. But do doc points, okay? And an example with those emails, for example, harassing emails, I've received 1,500 emails in the last 30 days. All 150 in the last 30 days. And they're all about this often, it'll just include the words about the kids because they're allowed to do it under a family violence order, perhaps talk to you about the children. I think it's got to be doc points, it's got to be numbers if you can think of it, or it might be something like the family violence, family violence underline of experienced family violence, too many to explain. But as an example on this date, I remember this date, he, he, she did that. And at least another 100 times, or 50 times, or five times, or as far back as I can remember over our marriage, that sort of thing. So it could, it's got to be dot headings and dot points so the court can follow it through. And also so the barristers can refer to sections as well. I know there's a lot, I know there's a lot. But if you try to keep it in the wording of the family law act as well and that definition, that will help. Okay. Wow. So anybody who's listening to this, whether you're right at the beginning, whether you're right at the pointy end, we know it's a hard, it's a hard slog. We've got a lot of members going through and we really feel for you guys because it does feel like a second job. And it is sitting in the back of your head, just trying to get it all out. So you actually will be doing yourself a favour to get it all out and get it all down on paper. And I think if we could set you all a challenge today, and that is if you're watching this today, you're now going to go and put in your calendar, a day and time blocked out when you're going to sit down and get it all out of your head and get it down on paper, or you're going to get the app to document these things. Do something actionable from this episode to help you further your case and put out your story so that you get the just outcome that you deserve. And you really should try to get a counsellor of some sort and get some therapy. And again, your big document will be perfect for that. But if you can't even start that document, then I suggest go and find someone to talk to a social worker or a psychologist to help you overcome that blockage. But yeah, we really feel for you, you will get through this, but it's just so hard. But you know what, if they didn't want you to talk about what they did to, they shouldn't have done it in the first place. It's not your shame, it's theirs. Love that one mum, love that one. Go on by yourself, a cup of tea and a block of chocolate and bribe yourself to glory. You have to. So thank you mum for your time today, everybody. If you're interested in listening to those other episodes where we delve into all the different types, go on to listen to that episode. Also if you're writing an affidavit, we've got a great episode on how to write an affidavit. But again, disclaimer, this is just education and tips. This is not legal advice for your case. Please go and get legal advice as each situation is different and we're not liable for the outcome of your case. Thank you mum for your time and we'll see you guys next week. Bye, Darls. Bye. If you found this podcast helpful, we'd love it if you could rate, review and subscribe. By doing so, you are spreading the word to help someone else just like you. Lim would like to remind you that this podcast is general advice only and you should always get legal advice in relation to your particular situation. And remember that the Australian rules may have changed since recording.