Talking Dateline: Slow Burn

Hi everyone, I'm Blaine Alexander and today we are talking date line I am joined by my good friend Andrea Canning to discuss her episode Slow Burn. Hi Andrea! Hey Blaine! If you guys haven't seen the episode yet, you can stream it now on peacock or listen in the date line podcast feed and then come right back here. Later on we'll have an extra clip from the victim impact statement made by Jennifer's mother, Beth Caritas and then after that we will answer some of your questions from social media. Okay Andrea let's talk date line let's do it. So before we jump into all of it Andrea can you just give us a quick recap of this episode? Yeah I mean this one started out with you know there's a fire at Keith Canningrow's house he's an entrepreneur wealthy very large home and his family is inside the house and they are dead and Keith is dead and the whole family it appears has been murdered. Then there is another fire 10 miles away so the first one's in Coltsnack the second one is in Ocean Township New Jersey and everyone's okay in that house this is now Paul Canningrow this is Keith's older brother so two fires not too far away from each other two brothers police start to quickly suspect that this could be Paul Canningrow that he is at the center of both of these fires and the four murders they wind up charging Paul with arson for his own house and arson for his brother's house and the quadruple murder of his brother's family and he was convicted of all of his crimes. So this was one of our hour long episodes and this one just hit me so hard because in the entire first act I was just on this emotional roller coaster because you show this beautiful family photo with these kids we know that they weren't in school but I'm thinking okay hopefully they were at camp or maybe they were with a friend or a family member and I just would not allow myself to believe that they had been killed too. I know that that's what made this episode for me just so much harder when you are doing this to children yeah I mean it's it just takes it to another level you know what innocent children eight and eleven this is their uncle you know he I mean Jesse took him to school for special person's day what that just gutted me when I heard that he was doing like I just I don't like it defies logic the whole thing and I think the other the other piece of this is that it just that they were stabbed I mean that is such an unbelievably upclose personal way to kill anyone right but but to kill a child I and so as I was watching your storytelling through the first act I'm thinking okay we know there's a body outside up okay it's Keith he said yeah but then as they found more I'm like oh my god like there were more there were more it was the whole thing was stunning to me I want to touch on your interview that you did with the first responders and I was so glad that you were able to speak with them because I think anytime we can talk with first responders especially as I mentioned when you have these stories of a house fire and they go in and it's like okay what are we going to find who are we going to find what does it look like I wonder if you can just tell me a little bit behind the scenes about your conversations with them because these guys were clearly so affected by what they saw when they found Jesse and Sophia what was it like sitting down with them well first of all you know we are volunteer firefighters in this country I don't think get enough applause kudos right pads on the back they do this for free and that Adelphia fire company was all volunteer so first of all it's such a selfless because I mean all fire all firefighters volunteers are not very selfless individuals and they care a lot about the community but then it's sort of like you take it up a notch when you don't even get paid right I mean you could just see it in their eyes when they when they talked about you know especially Carmelo you know when he held the Sophia in his arms when he you know we and we didn't actually show the whole thing because it was just it was extremely sad but he was just still I could just see it in his eyes how horrible that moment was for him when he realized that it was a little girl that he had picked up yeah yeah I mean I think that was when I was watching it I know that I was affected by it because I'm thinking okay maybe you know maybe it's his wife maybe it's Jennifer and then to realize oh no this entire family is gone well in the mayor JP the former mayor he would not he refused to even talk about the injuries of the family of the mom and the two kids he wouldn't even he's like I'm sorry I'm not going there I'm just I'm not even going to get into that and I don't blame him you know it's just it's so graphic it's so horrific it's still so hard for people even to this day to to talk about it yeah I want to talk about what was our reporter's name Monica Monica Monica Monica Monica guy Monica guy I thought what a fantastic interview I mean one she's a reporter right and so she's there she knows what's going on but who she knows the family she clearly knows the community I mean this is something that just her in a certain way I loved having her voice in this story and just hearing her perspective she was she she was a unique yeah because it is a small town right and then to be not only your neighbor then your reporter covering the story and she said you know in the story you heard her she said it was the worst day of my career yeah you know because like tragedy just doesn't usually strike that close to home for media right and for Monica to be able to sit down and talk about it was really like I was it was really impressive that she was able to get it out but in such a like really heartfelt way and of course she didn't want anyone thinking she's trying to get attention for this or any because she's not you know she was there to honor them and just talk about how deeply it affected the community what wonderful people they were that was Monica's you know reason for for doing the episode yeah well it was a powerful voice that really she really had a powerful voice I agree she did speaking of I was so impressed I loved hearing from the friends who knew Jesse and Sophia the the siblings because I mean gosh how I was struck by the fact that they were so young when this happened and now they've grown up there's several years now removed what six five six years but the fact that they were obviously so impacted by this and it was such a large moment especially in the life of a child I thought that hearing their voices really just kind of drove home what this did to the community I mean we like in our in our town we just we just had a young boy and my daughter's friend group die of cancer oh you know and I saw how that just hit the young community so hard yeah you know it was it was really devastating for them but that's one of those things you can explain you know that's that happens in life people get sick right it's it's not fair and it's sad but it you know it happens it happens yeah but yeah to have to explain to your children that their best friends uncle killed them I have to explain evil you have to explain that someone is I mean someone is mean right and that's a lot harder to drive them to know how those poor parents told them the news you know it it's really hard to imagine having to tell your children that and kids grow up together right I mean that's their sense of safety is their friend friend group and the people that they're around so I'm really glad that they spoke what was it like for you talking with them how were they during that process well I know it was really hard for them they really wanted to do it that's the thing yeah there was no pressuring of these kids sure because the moms were gonna do it and that's important to say yes they wanted to do this the mom were gonna do it and the kids were gonna do it and then the moms decided they couldn't handle it you know it's just too hard so they backed out but the kids were like no we're not backing out we want to do this we want to do this for our friends they pulled it together and I tried my best to put them at ease and they were like just lovely lovely children teenagers I mean it hit me when when you know the the the boy said it was I was talking to him before we started the interview and he said I'm a senior young graduating and it hit me in that moment and I thought wow Jesse would have been graduating yeah yeah you know like with with his class this year and that just drives it home even more right yeah where he would be now when we get back we will hear some of the emotional victim impact statement made by Jennifer's mother at Paul sentencing um you know I have to say I talked about the fact that I went on an emotional rollercoaster in act one but probably the first three acts I was all over the place watching this and I think and it was funny because Jay and I were watching this together so I'm like emoting out loud he's giving his thought like my husband he's like Tony he does that just kind of where are we thinking because I always go into it pull they hadn't read any of our stuff in the file or anything and so so first when you I remember when you mentioned that he had been taken to school for favorite person's day or you know I was thinking oh my god it might be him they're spending so much time talking about Paul but then when I heard that there is a fire at his house I said no no no no no no no I was wrong it's not him someone now being targeted right yeah that was exactly what I thought and I remember thinking oh my goodness is it for their money is it people are jealous of I mean I really started and that went through me for a loop the which I'm sure was the point of him doing that that definitely threw me for a loop and that the whole thing was stunning to me we see these stories so often. And I know you've had some, I've had some where someone tries to set a fire to cover up the evidence. And in some way, it doesn't work, right? I think that when I saw that part about him going up and unplugging the security camera in the middle of the night, it's like, okay, that clearly that, you know, Blaine, it's not the first time that I've, I had a story last year where the killer, you see him walking up to the camera and disabling the camera. I'm like, what? Do you not think that these images will be telling like captured? I like, I don't understand. What do you think happens up to the point where you disconnect? You know, you see these people who think things all the way through in so many different ways. And that just seems like it's such an obvious miss. Well, and it made me think of, you know, in the case of Nancy Guthrie, which is still unsolved. And of course, you know, our hearts go out to Savannah for that. And we really, if anyone obviously has any tips, you know, call the FBI, but you know, that was such a big part of, of that story as well, you know, the final image of someone disconnecting her camera. And it seems to keep coming up in, in these date line episodes, how the camera's factor into things. It does. I think it got a lot of people thinking about their own security, their home security systems in a different way. And it does bear pausing on that too. I want to give that number one, eight hundred call FBI. That's the number that we've been putting out there. Thank you for doing Savannah and her family so much. Like it's, it's, it tears at us at all, at all times, one hundred call FBI. We just want it solved for Savannah and her family. I'm glad that we got a chance to put that out there because people are always listening, especially our date line listeners. I mean, you and I talk about how astute our date line viewers and listeners are. And so if they know anything, please, if you know anything, call FBI. Absolutely. I want to talk about the money here. It's certainly no stranger to a date line plot that there's insurance money involved that there's money. But when you set the sum, one point five million dollars, I was shocked at just how that's not a lot of money to massacre your entire family, including children, right? And I say this, I say this delicately because there's no amount of money that's worth killing anyone or your family or anything like that. But 1.5 million, I was, I was honestly expecting the number to be higher, right? If that's kind of what he stood to, to gain, but they say it was more than that. The prosecutors say it was more than that that he was jealous. He was vindictive. He was angry with his brother. And then if you looked at those, what the one section of the email section where Paul and Keith were emailing each other and yes, and you know, Paul says, I don't want to sell the pest control business right now. I want to wait. And you can see how Keith controls everything. He's like, no, we're selling now. Like, and because Keith was the one with all the money, he was what 90% it was 90% his business. So the pest control was 50 50. And then the IT company, which had been very successful in the past was 9010 for Keith. And the IT business was, did very, very well. But then, you know, it's the need for an IT business like outsourcing IT, you know, is just fading away, right? So an AI is getting involved in that. And so anyway, he realized he's like, you know what, it's, this has been a good run. It's, it's time to get out of the IT business. And I just want to sell everything at this point, you know, just just be done with the pest control. So Paul didn't like that. And so it was more like the prosecutor said, you know, greed revenge, you know, kind of a, a pulgarine of bad blood, right? On Paul's side, really. And Keith, you know, some, some said that Keith was growing tired of his brother and, you know, taking care of him. And also he had caught him, you know, according to prosecutors, Keith had caught him stealing. So he was really getting, you know, frustrated with the situation. And Paul was living above his means with his other woman, his daughters, all of his fancy cars. And, you know, he, he wasn't bringing in enough money to cover all that. I think you labeled it right when you called it a story like Cane Enable. Yeah. It was very akin to that, you know, this, this, this deep jealousy. I did have one question and I wonder if you could answer this for me. I, I wondered why Keith texted Paul in the middle of the night to say, Hey, looks like my generator's out. I'm going to go outside and fix it. Yeah. Well, they're already talking. So what we learned was that Keith was like the businessman. Paul was the tech. Paul was the techie. The, the guy who took care of everything for Keith, you know, Paul's the guy who fixes everything. So probably, you know, Paul had a feeling that he would come out there and, you know, sure enough, you know, he, it was a trap, right? He, he led his brother outside to a trap, which is so scary that he was lying and waiting, you know, of course. Let's talk a little bit about. So of course, he's arrested. He's charged and it goes to trial. Let's talk about the trial. Specifically, I want to talk about Paul's defense attorney, Monica, Monica, Mastellone. Yeah. Yeah. Monica Mastellone. It, I've got to say one when she, when you, I think you had an in a tease at the end of act five of, there's a third brother. I thought, right? Maybe it was a third brother. I mean, I was all over the place with this episode. Let's call it what it is. Monica had a very difficult case to defend very. I mean, the evidence was really stacked against Paul. So, you know, I think she did a good job for what she had to work with, but that was, that's one you can call an uphill battle. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It sounded like I want to ask you about Paul's family throughout all of this. It seemed like they were standing back. I mean, they wouldn't do interviews. They, they, they weren't interested. But yeah, the daughters testified for him. The family showed up to court. I don't know how much, but they definitely were trying to help them. So, but yeah, they wouldn't, they wouldn't speak to us. Well, one family member we did hear from, and this is our extra sound. We also heard from Jennifer's mother, who spoke at Paul's sentencing hearing. Tell us a little bit about her, and then we can listen to what she had to say. Yeah. I mean, the family also declined to do interviews. Jennifer's family. What I know from their testimony in the courtroom is just how gutted they are, how devastated they are, how, how does the family move on from something this horrific? Well, let's listen to what she had to say in court. Jennifer, my daughter, was a beautiful person. She was warm, vibrant, caring, wife, daughter, sister, friend, and most of all, a wonderful mother. Keith was a loving and devoted father, husband, son, and brother. He had a brilliant mind, and his success was only because of his incredibly hard work and dogiveness. He was the son I never had, a true loving son, a man who would be there to help anyone in need. Jennifer and Keith had the same birthday, and sadly now, she had the same day of passing. My grandson, Jesse, I wish I could have seen him grow up. He had a mind like his father's, so smart, deeply interested in history. A kind is hard. He had a better everyone. Sophia, my beautiful granddaughter. So young, she loved to dance, sing, play with makeup. She put on makeup better than I did. She was a joyful, spirited and kind like a mother. Jesse would be graduating now and going to college in the fall. Sophia, high school, lives stolen. There's not an hour in the day. I do not think of them. And to think of them is to think about this terrible thing. How their last moments were terrifying, painful and horrific. How each of them looked at their uncle Paul. As he killed them, killing them in front of each other like an animal. Wow, that's hard to hear, right? I mean, wow. Yeah. But at the same time, she's so well-spoken, she hit every point as hard as it is to hear. That was like so powerful. I mean, she really drove it home. She did. I think watching them, they had to look into the face of their uncle as he slaughtered the family and then ultimately then that's unbelievable. We had someone saying that in one of the interviews and I said, I don't really want to include that. And sometimes you just make that editorial choice because it was just, it's almost too painful. and maybe that's the wrong call, I don't know. - But you know what, I think that, and I had this experience recently with a story that involved kids too. I thought about you as I watched this piece because obviously we're both mothers. And there is something about doing these stories where children are involved, where children are harmed. - It's the worst. - That is just so hard. - It is so hard. - It's so hard. - It really is the worst. It's like, oh, I'm on the verge of tears right now. - Yeah. - I think that you handled it so well though. I mean, both talking with the friends who had had to deal with such a tragedy so young in honoring the kids, Jesse and Sophia, I think that you handled it so beautifully, and it's not easy. - Well, they, I understand. - They made it easy for me. 'Cause they were so lovely. Cassie or producer wanted to remind me of something, and this will lighten the mood for a moment here for all of us. - Okay. - We'll take it, please. - We do these long interviews, and we are constantly interrupted by weed whackers, lawn mowers, planes, trucks backing up, trains, people with bad mufflers going by, talking, clanking. I mean, literally, you name it. - Holy sirens. - It's so hard. - Whatever. - Yeah. - And we were doing an interview, and I guess it was with JP, the former mayor, and we kept getting interrupted by chickens. Because every time they would lay an egg, they, that's what the owners told us of the facility that whenever they lay an egg, they start clucking or whatever. And so I was like, that's a new one. I was like, the chicken. - Was there just a chicken farm right there? - It was some type of, like, barn setting. Yeah, and the chickens were like out back. And so, yeah, it was kind of funny. 'Cause, you know, it's like added to the list, a new sound disruptor, chickens. That is hilarious. You know, I've got to say, we do interviews in some interesting places. Well, no, this was a well-tolled episode. I really appreciate it. And thank you for this conversation. This was a good one. - It was a tough one. But yeah, always, always like having these conversations with you, Blaine. - Agreed. - Thank you. - Coming up next, we're going to answer some of your questions on social media. Hello, everyone again. Blaine had to go off on a shoot. So, we are here with the incredibly talented and hardworking producer of this episode, Cassandra Marshall. - Wow. - And, Cassandra. - Hey, Andrea. - Or Cassie, I'd like to call you. - Yes. - So, you are here to help us with our social media section. All right, let's start with, this is from Flutey Fan. She says Keith was shot in the head and still ran outside. That's quite a feat. But, I don't, do we think that was in the house? Probably not, right? - No, I can understand why viewer might be confused at that point. It's sort of the way the investigators felt. I mean, they get to the house. They see them out there. They see shot. There's a fire going on. But what they learn in the next couple of days and weeks is they find the shell casings out in the yard. And so, in that moment, they didn't know that. Later, they, based on that evidence, conclude that he was shot at multiple times out in the yard. And then later, they sort of get access to his electronic equipment, Keith's, and learn that the electricity had gone out in the house. And so, he got an alert about that. And he went outside to check the generator, the backup generator, which was near the area where he was found. And so, they feel pretty confidently that he was lured out there by the electricity being cut off. And then shot. Yeah, that, I mean, that was all, they believe, part of the diabolical plan by Paul. Exactly. OK, so this is from Southern Beach girl. She said, I can't even imagine how heartless you have to be to stab little kids. I mean, that was probably like the number one comment, right? Is, how can someone do this? Right, everybody we spoke to in an interview was just heartbroken and said that this was probably one of the most heartbreaking and difficult cases they worked because of that element of the kids being involved. And especially being the niece and nephew that to everybody's experience, they were quite close. You know, that he had a close relationship with them. It wasn't like they were, the whole family were estranged. Not that that would justify it in any way whatsoever. But it did add a layer of disbelief and just sort of like, you know, being sick to your stomach when you think about their last moments and knowing that it's at the hands of their uncle. Nothing about this case makes sense. This is from Kaitlyn or STRYX Owl. Don't they say don't mix business with family? Well, I mean-- Yes, it did have horrible consequences in this case. But I mean, I think we all know that there's tons of family businesses out there that are successful without any kind of problems whatsoever. And from what I heard in my reporting and at trial, this business relationship worked very well for a very long time. You know, these were issues that they had coming to a boiling point in the last year. So you never know what push-- I mean, we cover stories all the time that we don't understand which is people over the edge. And that's the problem is when you try to understand things. You know, you're going to beat your head against the wall because there's no understanding. You know, family businesses, sure. They probably have all kinds of drama. I'm assuming, you know, for people. But they said that these brothers fought all the time. That was sort of the nature of their relationship. But then they would make up very quickly, which is why for example, remember the fact that even though Keith was arguing with Paul and about to cut him off, when the electricity goes out, who does he call? Text first, or text, text, text, Paul. Yeah, right. And the defense used that as part of their defense. That this was something they did, but they always made up quickly. OK, so Sergeant Marty, defense lawyers really have to compartmentalize their work, huh? Cognitive dissonance. I mean, this was a public defender. And I mean, all defense attorneys have this sort of like, you know, oath or duty to defend their client to the best of their ability. And public defenders especially do not get to choose their cases. So you work with what you have. And this defense attorney was very articulate with us. You know, I think we both sort of felt-- she felt that it was her duty. It was a calling. She was passionate about it, doing the best that she could. And she also talked about how Paul's wife and friends were supporting him throughout this process. So I mean, I think she did what-- She was supposed to do-- She did her job. And that's what makes our country different from a lot of countries around the world. We have a pretty amazing justice system. It's not perfect by any means, but it's-- you know, they're there for a reason. Yes. All right, well that's it for talking Dateline. Thank you so much. I want to say, well, I'm supposed to say Cassandra, but I'm going to say Cassie. Thank you. Thank you for coming on and answering. Thanks for having me. Our amazing viewers' questions and listeners. And thank you all as well for listening. Remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can DM us your audio or video on our socials at DatelineMBC or leave us a voicemail at 2-1-2 4-1-3-5-2-5-2 for a chance to be featured right here. And you can watch the video version of Talking Dateline on Peacock or YouTube or subscribe to the NBC News app. We'll see you Friday for an all-new Dateline on NBC.