Takeaways From This Year's Draft and What Teams Did With Their Picks

[Music] Regressing to the mean since 2015. It's the hockey pdocast with your host Dmitri Phillip Ovech. Welcome to the hockey pdocast. My name is Dmitri Phillip Ovech and joining me is my good buddy Scott Wheeler Scott what's going on man. We're wrapping up I'm going to do this show with you. I'm in Chicago. We just finished up our draft show and I've got a flight home looking forward to the Canada as we record this looking forward to the Canada game later this afternoon and then we're into free agent. See you know under the 2027 draft here shortly. We certainly are I'm expecting those 27 rankings from you right after the weekend is over. So on Saturday we had our pal Jack Fraser on we broke down all the trades. We saw during draft week and the immediate roster impact coming out of those deals today. You and I are going to focus on the actual draft itself some of the picks the teams made the weightings position themselves for the future with the young talent they added to the organizations and just some of our biggest takeaways. I feel like we've got to start with the sharks coming out of this draft. It really felt like a culmination of everything they've kind of been building together not only addressing their last real kind of lingering organizational weakness on the right side of their blue line but then also netting a top tier prospect of the caliber of Ivar Stenberg and you know it's a team that finished what just four points out of a playoffs. Last year we're really in that race until the final week they entered the lottery with like 5.2% odds of actually getting the second overall pick and there's a lot of discussion throughout this process about which direction they go right I think there was a sentiment just take the best player available and that was Ivar Stenberg on Stenberg on everyone's board since this is probably going to be the last time you're picking this high during the the Macklen celebration of the years and then there was kind of this competing argument of using this opportunity to bolster the rights out of your blue line take a chase read and really kind of address that and don't look back. That discussion or decision was made easier for them after they traded William Eclan on Tuesday to clear up that spot for Stenberg and then add the the night overall pick which they would use on a defenseman. I'm curious for your take on before that Eclan deal kind of where you landed on that discussion in terms of like how the sharks should orient their process and how they should go about this with a really big decision given the stakes of you know you got to nail this because we're not going to have a pick this good for a long time. Well I've kind of had it as a two-player tier throughout this process and that never wavered. I do seven lists in advance of every draft class. It was the same two guys in a tier of their own the two wingers had kind of distinguished themselves for me. So I wasn't in the camp necessarily that believed that they had prior to acquiring the ninth overall pick that they had to chase a defenseman. I think if it's close you some of those things are considerations. It didn't feel as close for me as it did as it seemed to for the scouts and executives that I've spoken with over the course of this year. I've spoken with people in advance of this year's draft who had killed a malholtra one who had Carson Carl's one who had Diva Stenberg Gavin McKenna one who had earlier in the year had Keaton Verhoff one chase read one late in the year. That was that that was really dominated frankly the conversation. I think Gavin's play kind of put it to bed over the course of the season but I never got there. I never got to the belief that you could take a chase read first or second overall or you could take a Carson Carl's first or second overall. It would have been I think you're filling in some logical gaps there to come to that conclusion. Evar has just accomplished so much more than those kids and I think it's just undeniable what he represents as a player. I think he's going to be a star player in the league and they get the best of both worlds by leveraging Eclin to acquire the ninth overall pick and by moving up to take Ryan Lynn at the end of the first round. I felt like they were the sort of quote we always do winners and losers and I hate sort of categorizing it that harshly but that's the way that we do it at the athletic and they felt like the winners to me before day two had even begun because of what the three players they acquired on day one is going to represent for the organization long term. Ryan Lynn's been my guy all year. Ryan Lynn was 10th on my list. He's the one player in this class that I've stuck my neck out on a little bit. Keaton Verhoff represents a potential stud defenseman as well and now you look at the San Jose sharks and I think they should be the envy of the league in terms of what they've accomplished that the way that they've execute that Mike Greer has executed this rebuild but the next step is always the hardest and we've seen it go south we've seen Jack Ikeleef Buffalo we've seen the the pressure points now on Austin Matthews and Toronto on Conor McDavid and Edmonton that it the rebuilds the easy part acquiring picks is the easy part and there's a lot of work that goes into making sure that you get a Michael Nisa right and Evarstenberg right. Macklin Celebrenny was a layup but the rest I think they've executed really nicely I like Will Smith there's just so much there now and the one thing it felt like they needed was another defenseman other than Sam Dickinson that you can say you can rest on your laurels and say okay this kid's going to be a top four defenseman for us now we have I think if you're if you're the San Jose sharks now you can say now we have three of those guys in Ryan Lynn in Sam Dickinson and in Keaton Verhoff you need one of those guys to become a true number one I'm not sure that any of those three players become that but you've got the foundation you've got the firepower up front they drafted Joshua Ravensburg and one of the best goalie prospects in the game a year ago Yaroslav Askerov is a young netminder it's just it's in front of them now like I think they've positioned themselves this weekend to potentially win in a Stanley Cup in in the medium term at least. Well the league certainly validated that sentiment you shared earlier based on how the first six picks went right with Chase Reed following to seventh to the crack and everyone going to talk more about that. A second yeah after they took Stemberg I think the board felt really nicely for them with Verhoff falling into their lap at nine and it would have been crazy like imagine telling someone at various points throughout this past year that the sharks would have been able to come out of this class with both Stemberg and Verhoff incredibly impressive and then to your point they use 27-62 and 120 to purposefully move up to 21st overall and take Ryan Linn use another top right handed prospect and I think a player like you said you had him 10th on your board I think very clearly could be an argument to like just grade him much closer to 10 than 20 and so scooping him up at 21 is nice and the reason why I say it was purposeful is I do think that you know the penguins were sitting at 22 and I imagine they probably would have just taken Ryan Linn if he had gotten past that slot and so they kind of swooped in and stole him from them and you know the penguins I thought pivoted nicely using 22 and 39 to reunite the Ruck twins and it worked out for them but for the sharks I think to swoop in the way they did there and sort of time it out perfectly it just played out really really nicely for my career. Yes and I think first of all I can say that now that we're through this process the Pittsburgh penguin did like Ryan Linn I heard that he wasn't getting past them in advance of the draft so I do think that whether Mike Greer knew that or not and he probably did that he wasn't going to be there if they allowed him to sort of linger. I'm excited for for Ryan Linn you know I got to see him a bit here in Vancouver and I think going to University of Denver and working with David Carl is really going to benefit him and I imagine he's going to be one of these guys where a year from now it's going to be a stock up situation and you're going to be wondering how he fell to 21 I think how they got that pick in general is fascinating to consider right because sort of the process of cobbling together value along the way the way Mike Greer did where he gets paid initially by the red wings to take on Jake Wallman and looking at it in hindsight like a defenseman being owed $3.4 million for two years is nothing in today's game essentially but they get paid a second to do so they get 50 games a very productive 50 games out of Wallman and they get 32 points in that time for them they sent him deadminton for this 26 first and the oilers wind up losing and around one to the ducks that pick winds up being 20th they moved down from 20 to 27 and bank another prime aged right child defenseman and Michael Kesslering who I think is going to be interesting for them this year while they wait for some of these guys and then they move back up to take Ryan Linn and so really tidy piece of business by Mike Greer to kind of put that all together and sort of work his way up and down the board and get the guys you wanted and I don't think and through through this process I have felt about Ryan Linn the way that I did about Denta Matejak who went to your point closer to 10 at I believe Matejak went 12th overall. Matejak had 14 goals 33 points played 19 20 minutes a night one of the only under 21 under 22 D in the league last year that didn't have to be sheltered like I think that's I think that's a very realistic path they had comparable production comparable size comparable tool kit in terms of the smarts the way they think the game the competitiveness the hockey Canada pedigree the the WHO track record coming up I think that's that's the path and that I think teams have worried a lot with the 511 type that you could also get Ty Smith or Victor Soderstrom or Eric Brandt Ström. Like there have really hangola. There have been a lot of players in that mold in that range of the first round that haven't worked out over the course of the last six, seven, eight drafts. And I think that has I mean we're we're a year removed from no sub six foot defenseman getting picked in the entire draft. Different story this year with Ryan Lynn with Tommy Blile with Axel Olipson. But the league seemed to be the pendulum has seemed to swing towards the highly mobile two way size athletes, especially on the back end. And Lynn didn't always represent that. But I think when the competitive is high end enough, when the skill level is high end enough, when the defending is high end enough, Ryan Lynn is one of the most polished detailed defenders in this draft class, I think you can get there. And I think the ceiling if the bear if the bear scenario is Ty Smith, I think the ceiling is also Josh Morrissey, right? Like that's so making that calculus is a difficult calculus for these guys to make. And it's difficult to go to your GM and say that we're going to come out of the first round after a year of being a poor team and finishing in the top 15 in the draft. And we're going to come out of the draft with a 5 11 defenseman. Like that is it I think a difficult cell for some people. But I have felt throughout this process like Ryan was an except if that's the rule like Ryan was going to be an exception. David Carl, you mentioned Denver has a history of developing the 5 11 6 foot defenseman. Obviously, Zeeves is the big case study in that. But Eric Polkamp is just signed with the San Jose Sharks coincidently, the organization that drafts Ryan Lynn. They've they've just done a really nice job with that player type. And I think he's going to spend two or three years in college and emerge and play in the league and have a 15 year career. Like I think that's the kind of player we're talking about with Lynn. Really impressive restraint by you Scott, not including Julius Hanca in the in the list of defensemen you rattled off there. Just to avoid re reigniting the Hanca Wars of yesterday year. I want to end with this on the sharks and I want to move on to some other teams. I was watching your guys live stream of the round one of the draft that you did with with Cory Braunman and Chris Peters and Max Boltman. And it was great. And I recommend people still go check that out. But when you guys were talking about Stemberg, you were sort of discussing the sharks for group and you kind of made the point of coaches really liking pairs upfront in terms of guys who build chemistry together. And then you can sort of figure out the pieces around them. And it's pretty clear that what we've seen from celebrating and Smith earlier in their careers, they've got that you've got this potential now for me. Science, Stemberg, you've got some really nice complimentary wingers to mix in there. We saw Cherner, Shaft playing on the top line with Smith and Celebrity. And he looked great in those 20 or so games. I love what I saw from Colin Graf here. And if that is the top six graph being the veteran elder statesman of the bunch at 24 years old is pretty remarkable. And then you've got a fun sort of veteran line of Wembroke, DeFoli and Sherwood. I imagine that's how we're going to see it at least out of the gate. Right. And one of the added bonuses of taking Stemberg as opposed to some of those other defensemen in the consideration is his proximity to immediate impact, right? For its team, it's going to be trying to make the playoffs next year and then build off of this previous season his ability to step in and immediately contribute. And there's a lot of details in his game that I think really kind of got people enamored with him as a prospect that might not even necessarily reflect on the score sheet, but he certainly has been incredibly productive in a pro league overseas. So he's got that in his bag as well. But I guess I'm curious in terms of what that realistic immediate projection is in terms of the fit and sort of what that's going to look like in San Jose right away from year one. I think from a pure projection for next year standpoint, a pure readiness standpoint, he's the most NHL ready prospect in this class. Gavin is going to have more peaks and valleys to his rookie season in the NHL. I think Gavin will benefit from being insulated by Austin Matthews and potentially William Neuander or John Tverres will see who they match him up with. There's a little bit less insulation if in the top six that you've you've just outlined. There's a little less insulation there in terms of entering into an organization that skews extremely young. But Stemberg is ready for that. And I think we saw it at men's world. I mean, we saw it all year in the SHL. You sort of alluded to it historic SHL season, not just a very good SHL season, a season that put him in the conversation with names like Nazlan, Forsberg, the sedeness and all time great SHL season, a significantly better season at men's worlds at the world, juniors and at the SHL level, then Leo Carlson, who is an immediate impact guy in the league, right? So now not saying Leo Carlson's a six three center. It's a different, it's a different player. But that's he's he's ready. He's up and under sticks. He's strong on pucks. There are elements to his game that are going to help him not have those peaks and valleys, not rely on the power play every game. We'll see who they pair him with. I think your your your point on pairs is is a cogent one like they they have to figure that out. Will Smith and that one celebrating clearly have built him chemistry. I would guess that that means that Michael Misa and Eva are Stenberg are in eventual pair together. I don't know whether that will happen immediately. Misa finished really strong last year. If Misa starts strong, I think you let them you let your horses run and you let them figure it out. I wonder about where Tyler Tafoli and some of these other guys may be fit in there. But it's it. I mean, imagining the power play of the future, like there's just so much for them to tinker and toy with now that gets you excited. And I think in terms of a realistic expectation, you I don't like, I don't think a 50 point season is out of the question. And that's kind of been the the call their barometer has kind of been 60 points to win at 50 points to get on to the ballot. Like that's kind of been the new standard. Obviously you have the outlier season. You have Matt Barzelle going for 70 points. But typically it's been kind of that 50 to 60 point range that gets guys into the mix. I would not be surprised if he gets into that range as an 18 year old rookie in the late next year. I'm really excited to see how it plays out. And I will as a parting shot on the shark's tail. So it took a guy 200 and first overall who seven foot one and that rocks. So a lot to love there. All right. I want to talk Sabers with you because I feel like the first real plot twist the draft, a top the draft board, right? We had McKenna one, Stemberg two, my whole three. I don't think there were necessarily any surprises there was the Sabers going and taking Daxon Rudolph, particularly not necessarily a surprise in terms of his draft stock because everyone had him in the top 10. I think it was a wide array of opinions on how you kind of sort those guys. And depending on who you talk to, I think there was a compelling case for any of those four or five guys. Essentially they sort of identified him and picked him, especially in light of how heavily rumored it was that once they really kind of just took candy from a baby with the black ox and got this pick from them in the biometrade, how they were potentially exploring leveraging it to land an impact player, whether it was a hell of buck or a mad you knives or any number of guys that you want to include there, they wind up making the pick take Daxon Rudolph. How surprising did you kind of find that because I think some people were probably like, whoa, I didn't see that kind of especially with Chase Reed here, that would have been especially, you know, with the mobility and the way the Sharps play in their top four, that would have made a lot of sense. But I do think like a six with three right shot defenseman with as interesting and offensive skill set as Rudolph showed last year when you kind of think about it that way, it starts to make a lot more sense. Yeah, it was mildly surprising. It wasn't stop me in my tracks shocking. It wasn't Ben Kindle a year ago, for example. Like it and frankly, we didn't get that moment in this first round. I was a little surprised by where Jonas Lagerberg, Hoen went at the end of the first round after missing his draft year due to ACL ready construction, but there were teams that had him there. There were teams that had Jackson cover there. I heard Jackson covers name as a late first round guy dating back to the middle, sort of the midpoint of this season. Rudolph was the disruptor though in the the true chalk top nine order that if you were to pull 10 NHL scouts, this is the likely order that they would have spit back at you. And in saying that when I did my scout poll at the athletic, I interviewed I surveyed 13 scouts on the defenseman. And one of the questions I asked this year in my poll was give me of the group of five top defenseman, give me your one and give me your five. And I was interested to see what the results came back. And all five players were the five for somebody. So all five of the defenseman were the five for somebody. And only three were the one for somebody. Two of them were as expected. Chase Reed had the most votes at eight out of 13. Carson Carl's had four out of 13. And then there was the lone vote at number one for Jackson Rudolph. And I think that was a signal. There was also a second scout who said that he had Jackson Rudolph very close to chase Reed. And that was kind of the signal that this was possible for him. It didn't any longer feel possible for Keaton Verhoff to be the first pick. It didn't feel like Albert Smith's was going to be the first of those defenseman taken. But it felt like it was probably going to be Reed. And if it wasn't Reed, it was going to be Carl's or Rudolph because there was belief. I think his playoffs in print. Albert really cemented him not just firmly in that group, but at the front of that group for some people. He made a ton of plays this year. He was the MVP of that team in a way that the other great players in the CHL weren't this year. You look around the league. The Rucks got to play with Bryce Pickford and you go down the list. That team was, that Prince Albert Raiders team was driven entirely by Daxon Rudolph. He was their leading scorer as a defenseman. He played 25-30 minutes a night for them. The Nick, the way that people sort of felt about him as the fifth guy. He was the player who also got the most fifth place votes. But the reason that people were maybe a little reluctant on him was that the feet are average. He's got a little bit of an awkward stance. His knees knock a little bit. And then he's not the hard, he doesn't have that hardness element that Carson Carls or Melbrett Smiths have. And yet the offense from an offensive standpoint, you can make a compelling case that he is the most likely guy to point, to run PP1 for an NHL team, to be that piece of the puzzle. Obviously, he's going to have to navigate like Bo and Byram did. The fact that Rasmus Dalline is there, but Rasmus Dalline isn't going to be there forever. And I think he fits in really nicely. And I think it's again, maybe a little surprise that he was the first of the five in the end to go, but it felt very fluid. So I admittedly don't watch these guys nearly as much as you were, you know, Cam Robbins and Chris Peters do a sort of swoop in after the Stanley Cup finals done and absorb as much tape as I possibly can to prepare myself for it. I did get to see Dexter Rudolph live here in Langley at the top prospects game in February. And I was blown away watching just how Evan Bouchard coded. He looked to me in terms of like, I don't think he bent his knees a single time and was casually gliding around and yet was involved in so many scoring chances. I think wind up scoring the overtime winner in that game. And you could see just the, you know, kind of the manipulation and sort of vision that he has that I think got people to fall in love with him and clearly the Sabers as well. Sport logic had him first among all CHL defensemen in successful completions with passing to the slot. And I think a lot of those elements are going to be a very nice fit for the way the Sabers play. And you can kind of copy pace what we said about Randland in terms of going to the University of Denver next year. And I think benefiting from that as well. I do think, you know, regardless of whether you think they should have taken another defenseman from a game theory perspective, I appreciate what they did here in terms of viewing this pick that they got as kind of this luxury item that was gifted to them and using it as an opportunity to really take a home run cut at adding a genuine blue chipper into your organization that's going to come in and be a cheap contributor in a couple years when some of their younger players are starting to get paid. And I much prefer that to sort of taking a, let's say kind of safer route in terms of like taking a guy who maybe projects more safely, but doesn't have nearly the same upside. And I think Daxi Rudolph clearly has that upside for everything we just said about him. I also do wonder a little bit about Redeemer Canal in everything that's happening there. Redeem did not have a great post draft season. Obviously the ninth overall picked to them a year ago. There was talk of them in the lead up to this year's draft of them actually flipping. Number four, again, obviously, number four was involved in conversations about Connor Hellibuk. We don't know how far those actually progressed and whether the sabers were ever actually sort of strongly considering what the Winnipeg Jets were looking for there. But I do wonder about Murkha now. Like I think if they want to leverage something to fill some of what's been lost in the immediate term by Alex Tux departure, by Bo Byram's departure, I think a player like Murkha might be one of those pieces. And they're going to count. And I think rightfully so, I think they're in the right headspace by expecting that Consta Haleinius, Noah Ostland, Zach Benson, the return of Yuri Kulik, they're expecting some forward momentum, some positive development growth from those guys. And I think that's built into them maybe insulating some of what they've lost. But it does feel like they still have, there's another domino to fall there and they're not going to sit tight here. I don't think. And then they kept that 20th overall pick as well, which I think people were a little bit surprised by, especially after they made the fourth overall pick, because I think people viewed that as an opportunity to maybe add another winger, but they took you lamarose of and it struck me just what an absolute unit he is. And particularly at the age where he's turning 18 in August, he was one of the youngest NCAA players and played a big role on his team. You got any, any notes on him on the way out here? Well, I know they told him another thing that I can kind of report post draft here, but they told him at the combine that if he was there, they were taking him. He was truly their guy that's not post draft posturing about him being their guy. They had informed him that he was their guy. I think they felt with Haleinius and Ostland and Benson and all of these guys in that sort of 5/11 range. I think they felt that they needed to prioritize size a little bit with that pick. It is a save, like it's a butt. He's going to be a third line center in the league. That's the profile. Too late detail. He is a physical specimen. He's an excellent athlete performed incredibly well at the combine. I didn't love where they got him, but there were other teams and I sort of hinted at some of them in my mock draft, my final mock draft. There were teams in that early 20s range immediately after the 20th overall pick there that were prepared to take more of. It wasn't like they were on an island and thinking that there was real value, even if he is a third line center, that there was real value there. There were questions about the offense. I know teams challenged him on his offense at the combine and whether he was going to be able to produce in line with being a first round pick, but very, very smart player was excellent in the first half of last season at Miami and then really hit a bit of a wall. He was their first line center early. He was their leading scorer early. I think at year's end he finished seventh on the team and scoring. There was a 15-game stretch there where I think he had a couple of assists and just plateaued a little bit. A very, very likeable player who on the whole had a very respectable freshman year and full credit to Miami bringing him in early instead of allowing him to go back to play it in the U.S.HL. I think that was the right path for him and I think it helped his stock the way he looked in college. All right. So the Sabers take Rudolph four and kind of kickstart this run of defense. Min Albert Smith goes fifth in that show, Jack. I did on Saturday. We talked a lot about the acquisition of Durafteeb as well. On night one of the draft and I think both pretty clearly signal they don't necessarily want to do this long tear down rebuild and one of the appeals of Smith's prospect I really like is his relative proximity to NHL contribution compared to some of these other guys and then we see Carson Carl's go sixth and that drops Chase Reed all the way to seventh. It's the first offenseman, the crack and have ever taken in their short history in the first round I believe and they desperately needed a W after getting dunked on for 48 straight hours after Robertson became the latest star player to turn down their mountain of money and it was a really nice run out for them and you know we just talked off the top about how I think read it at second overall or even thirds that a conox was a very serious consideration and so to get him at seven I think is a nice piece of business for the crack and then something to be excited about. Yeah and that he he is the piece that they have yet to have since inception as an organization they have used every single one of their first round picks prior to this weekend on four words it's Shane Wright it's Mattie Ben Hears it's Jacob Bryan it's Berkeley Catten the Catten one came as a big surprise to people not because Catten didn't belong in the top 10 in his class but because that was a draft class like this one that was full of defenseman right like you had immediately after Catten you had Zboyem go you had Sam Dickinson go at Carter Yakumchuk went just prior there was that was an opera that was one of the opportunities that people had circled and people around the league that year had said look they have the crack him have to take a defenseman here and then they didn't and then last year they take Jacob Bryan and this year it felt like okay that one of those guys is going to get to them and I know that Chase Read was their guy um he was the the guy that they'd circled I think we never got to see the Toronto Maple Leafsport but I know that the Leafs were also high on Chase Read so really the draft order could have dictated a number of different pathways for some of these kids but the the pathway that landed for Seattle landed just right for them and to your point they desperately needed that I think he'll be a great fit for them long term he goes and he spent probably two years at Michigan State I'd be surprised if he's one and done I tend to believe that frankly all of these defenseman should be spending more time we saw how hard it was last year for a lot of the young D in the league um your your checks already been traded right Simon Nematch has now been traded it took Luke Hughes and frankly I think it's still taking Luke Hughes a long time outside of Matthew Schaefer there hasn't been a lot of these kids struggle or need to be sheltered Zane correct was sheltered Zeev Boyam played a lot but probably should have been sheltered more than he was uh Sam Dickinson sheltered right these are all high and D and that's after they've spent two years post draft somewhere to take you back to your point about Evar Stenberg in the immediacy of the San Jose Sharks. just waiting two years on some of these defensemen to go to college. Now it can take two or three years once they're past college in the NHL to figure it out and make a meaningful impact. And in the meantime, some of these forwards have had three or four years of impact on an ELC. So I think that's a part of the calculus in terms of why some of the forwards went the way that they did why the first three picks in the class were forwards. But it's it's a huge coup, I think it would chase read was my number one ranked defenseman. He was third on my list. The offense, I think is real. The skating is real. The defending has come a long way. I think the reservation that some had around read is that despite some of the highlights and some of the sort of quality of his playmaking and his skating and his shot, the point total is for an older birthday for a late '07 weren't necessarily there in the way that they were there for to your earlier point for Evan Bouchard or for Zane Perrek. Like you just didn't have that kind of OHL pop in the in the in the offense for an older player in particular. But I think it's coming. I think he's going to run their power play long term. I have real belief in the offense nonetheless. Yeah, I had that in my nose because I know there are certain people that were maybe a little cautious about that because the highlight real is very impressive. The mobility is absurd. I think there's a lot of belief he's going to be able to run a top-hour play and yet despite all of those awesome skills, it didn't necessarily coalesce into production in the OHL that was as eye-popping as you'd hope for a player. That talent that I think there's a fair conversation to be had about like some of the problems with using just raw points as a parameter for a defenseman's offensive ability. A lot of it is situational and there's ways to drive offense, especially in NHL without necessarily registering points yourself. And so I'm not as worried about that for him, but it was interesting hearing that from previous people in the league and then him falling to seven. The OHL importantly, I think the context matters that the OHL was a stronger league than say the WHO was this year as well. They have benefited the most of the three leagues from the counterflow of American kids into the CHL. I think the quality of the competition that Chase Reed played against was different than the quality of competition that on many nights, Dex and Rudolph or Carson Carls were playing against two. And I do wonder roles reversed. Like put Chase Reed in Prince George or Prince Albert, put one of those kids in the suit. I bet you the production is close to flipped. You go from point per game to one point two points per game. And I think that's important context. Very fair. Before we move too far away from this kind of top tier pros, I do want to talk about McKenna a little bit with you. Obviously went first overall and the Leafs started the vestibodies by taking them. They wound up making 10 picks overall and registered very high in your post draft rankings on a focus on McKenna. Those specifically from a year one impact, right? We'll just get things going to be very interesting. The skill is off the charts. And I imagine we'll see a lot of that on the power play. I think the discussion about sort of how they're going to use him and this idea that he's going to be a minor replacement to play with Matthews is an interesting one to me because I think that stylistically makes a lot of sense. I think that's probably going to require Jim Hiller to deviate pretty dramatically from the way Craig Bruebe was using Matthews last year where he was 99% title. I think in quality of competition and was just tasked with so many defensive responsibilities because he didn't really have anyone else to absorb that in an effective way. And so I imagine you're going to want to try to stay away from that a little bit to make his emergence of the league easier, but he is going to a spot where he doesn't have to necessarily be the guy immediately. And that's pretty rare for a first overall pick is generally if you're picking first. It's because you torn it down and you don't have anyone there to build around. And so it is a bit of a unique spot for him to step into. Yes. And I've used I used it on our show, but I view him analogous to the way that I view Jack Hughes when Jack Hughes entered the league. Jack had a very difficult and you'll remember, but Jack had a very difficult rookie year. And I think he finished with something like 28 points in his rookie season. I don't think the New Jersey Devils of that time and the Toronto Maple Leafs of that time are created equal though. And so I think there was a path where that was the kind of year that sort of 30 point year where it was really hard for Gavin. I think if he ends up in a different organization and some of the other organizations that that were drafting, frankly, at the top of this year's draft, including Vancouver, I think it would have been very hard for him to take on some of the tougher matchups to be a consistent play driver at five on five. He's always going to get his cookies on the power play. He makes an immediate difference on an NHL power play, any NHL power play. I think he will help elevate the Leafs power play and I'm fascinated to see what they what that looks like. I got the sense from Jim Hiller's introductory press conference that he wants Austin Matthews on the flank. And frankly, I'm not sure that that's the best use of William Nylander and Gavin McKenna who I think should also be on the two flanks. So they're going to have to navigate that. You've got a net front guy and John Tveris who has mastered that role. You've got Matthew Nies who's value you want to keep high on who is excellent in that role as well. There aren't enough jobs. You've added Darren Raddish at the point at the top of the umbrella. There's six players I think for five PP1 jobs. And I think you want Gavin in in that role rather than on PP2 just so he can feel good about himself on the nights where it's hard for him at five on five. There are going to be some nights at five on five that are hard for him. He struggled frankly at five on five in large stretches of his college season and he's going to get pushed off pucks. There are going to be times where Leafs fans don't like that he has one hand on his stick into a board battle. He's that his play away from the puck is going to be I think a net negative over the course of his NHL career. It's about can the offense be so high end? And frankly it's been a net negative for Nick Kutrovic times for Patrick Kane times. And those are the players at his true ceiling that people think of when they think about Gavin McKenna. So the offense is going to have to be good. And I think it could take him some time for the offense to be good. But he will benefit if it's with Austin Matthews if it's with John Tveris. One of those two guys is going to be his center likely all year. And I'm sure they'll try him with both. But it that helps him in a way that he would not have had that insulation in Vancouver in the early years kind of thing. This Atlantic division is shaping up to be one hell of a gone with a. But last year I think they want to finishing with five of the top nine teams by point percentage. Now that included the the Bruins and I don't necessarily think anyone's expecting a repeat of that. Although I did like the the Paturac ad for them. But you are adding this Panthers team getting healthy and adding Brady Kuchuck and they've jumped up to I think co favorites for the Stanley Cup odds for next season. And so you could argue that all these teams I mean we'll still see what the lightning do to replace radish and maybe John Carlson's rights going to Carolina complicate that a little bit. But assuming they spend their money you could make an argument that pretty much all these teams have improved and were only a couple weeks into the offseason. Yeah I think you look at the Atlantic as things stand right now and six of the eight teams in the Atlantic division I think are real playoff caliber teams. The Leafs are going to be better. The Florida Panthers are going to be better. The Ottawa Senators if they get goal tending and that's the age old question with the Ottawa Senators. But the Ottawa Senators if they get a good goal tending should be in the mix. The Montreal Canadians aren't going anywhere that I don't think to Tampa Bay Lightning are going anywhere. I don't think the Buffalo Sabers are going anywhere. And I think the Bruins are going to be in tough. I think the Red Wings are going to be in tough. But those other six teams fancy themselves as playoff teams. And I don't blame them frankly. I think they should all be pursuing the playoffs. It's a bear. It's the best division in the league. It's the deepest one through eight division in the league. I think it's deeper than even it was when when the Leafs and the Bruins and the Lightning and the Panthers were four of the best teams in the league simultaneously. Because now you've got five or six teams that are legit teams. And the Leafs have the most to prove out of that group. I think everybody just expects that the Florida Panthers are going to be the Florida Panthers again because of the way Barkov looked at men's worlds and because of the addition of Brady. And they've got to figure out who their goal is. But I think the Panthers assuming they stay healthy with that veteran group should be an excellent five on five teams should be able to drive play on most nights should be a very good team. The Leafs are kind of the X factor among that group of eight I think. But if the Leafs are good, if the Leafs look closer to the way that they looked for the decade prior to last season, the Atlantic division is as strong as any division we've seen in the last few years. We got about 10 more minutes here. I want to rapid fire through as many other teams as we can while I go here. I want to quickly do the ducks who make the McTab is trade and wind up getting two firsts. They take Clep off 50 nor Mark 28 and then they wind up getting on day two. Mathis Preston at 50 and he was by my count like early 30s on most people's boards. I think it was 30 third on your specifically. Clep off though is incredibly interesting to me because wildly productive in the OHL. Probably one of the most fun tapes of any player in this class. I think I deeply enjoyed studying him. Now I do wonder about how that's going to translate eventually to the NHL. There was some stuff where he's kind of skating around on the outside holding onto the puck and then eventually either makes a play because he's so skilled or there's an opening for him and he takes advantage of it and I love that. Saginaw too. Saginaw loves those rotations on the perimeter. That is more difficult. I mean that's generally reserved for the top couple players in the world that can actually pull that off sustainably like a lot of offense in today's game is much more Quick movement of the puck and passing and kind of creating and probing that way as opposed to An individual point guard essentially just kind of surveying the field and and waiting for something to happen But I do love the idea that the ducks here You know kind of tried to strengthen a strength essentially I think we all love their young forward group and how deeply skilled it is and some of the stuff guys like Sennaka and even Short Terri was a bit older can do with the puck and just adding another guy with that level of ability is Very exciting to me and so I do like what they did there despite having some Concerns about what that's gonna look like especially early in his NHL career. Yeah, I am a big big fan of the approach That verbi can that group took like take the players out of it I like the idea of operating from a position of strength and still swinging on skill like they have Among the better young cores in the league and their priority was still not to add around the edges Not to prioritize the big projectable third line guy. It was to take some swings I I don't think clop off at the range that they actually took him is is much more of a risk reward swing than any of the players who were available The prominent names in the class were gone outside of maybe Ethan Belches But the other swings are the are where I think you can you can find value and every team has to do that over the course of a contending window You have to find a Matthew Nies in the second round You have to find now that the temp belighting of your were spoiled by finding two of those guys in the second round in Kutraven point But you have to find one of those guys and it moves the needle and frankly I don't I don't think Igor Cherni-Shav is going to be that level of a player But Igor Cherni finding an Igor Cherni-Shav in the in the second round changes things I think a little bit more than people realize for the San Jose sharks as well because it just gives you that extra body that you weren't counting on With where you were drafting and not just an extra body but an extra playmaking body And I think you could potentially get that out of Marcus Nordmark or Matt this Preston two of the most polarizing players in the class Nordmark in particular like Nordmark is an extremely the most frustrating player in the game This draft for just about everybody moments of settle fishness the body language is terrible Criticism is about the way he is as a teammate the way he uses his line mates his effort level In consistency like that plagued him and it was deserved frankly But the skill level is high-end and I've I did a feature on him earlier in the years spoke with people in Jurgarden People in Jurgarden his own coaches were frustrated with him and willing to vocalize that which is pretty rare when they talk about their own guys with the media Especially in a draft year they cut him up pretty harshly in that story and yet they also were the first people to say Look we're Jurgarden. We've had Anton Frontel here. We've had Vigo Bjork here. This kid is every from a pure talent standpoint Is every bit as talented as those players when I did my player survey this year He was a kid that all of the sweet said I asked him who's the most talented player? You've played against him played with or against in this draft class It it was Nordmark for them. It was Nordmark for people who weren't for some of the players who weren't Swedish So I like it like I like the willingness to take that guy Maybe he's Edward Shale right like Edward Shale was kind of that same player her for the Seattle Kraken taken in the same range Sometimes those guys bust, but you can afford if you're if you're The Anaheim ducks you can afford to bust and frankly that Nathan to view to use the ducks isn't as an analogy Nathan Goshe who they took a few years prior to be that fourth line athletic big strong checker is also going to bust and not become that for them So there's risk in all of the players in that range and I like the calculus on a player like Nordmark I like it similarly on Preston people weren't as harsh on Preston But criticisms of inconsistency and and his off-puck play and his defensive habits have also been Lingeried around Preston here and he didn't produce this year like people thought he was going to produce people Frankly expected Preston to kind of have the club off season right to have that 90 point year to be a premium offensive guy And yet another guy who you ask Gavin McKenna you ask the rock twins you ask all those kids who's the most talent purely talented Purely skilled player in this class. They all say Preston right so the the skill is there. They're Preston can fly. He's one of the best skaters. I do worry a little bit about Nordmark's feet But Preston can fly he can shoot it There are tools there and now it's about okay now those kids have to just keep producing So that some of their flaws can be overlooked long-term at the NHL level by a coach Hurricanes man. I every year I say I think to myself they can't keep getting away with it And then they do it all over again And other teams indulge them and facilitate what they're trying to do and they pull it off So effectively they start this draft 31st overall they trade down three times while on the clock They turn that 31st pick into 51 61 68 and 125 They use the first pick of that Group to take a six-four defender who you had I think 31st On your board they wind up trading the 192 picked to the docks for John Carlson's negotiating rights, which I think is really interesting not only giving them a couple Days to try to sign him but particularly steal him away from Tampa who everyone had kind of penciled in Him going to which really would be um, you know killing two birds with one stone with another You know legitimate rival I think in the east for them and so um once again even though they started with the last pick of the first round I guess the senators technically did But turning 31 to that volume and then coming away with some interesting pieces Was I think great work by them yet again then they do this every year Yeah, the Carolina Hurricanes and my board have aligned like they have aligned more with my board over the years Than any other organization for whatever reason they just seem to pick guys that I like They don't always work out. They're a team that is willing like they like the ducks did frankly that is willing to take some risks To take offense in all seven in all seven rounds to prioritize Taking guys who can be play high in your lineup I don't think they care at all about getting the depth guy through the draft I think they understand that those guys are readily available in trade that they're readily available for cheap and free agency That they're they trust that their pro team can go out and find those guys in free agency or find them as a child players as college free agents And so they they take some swings and I've always respected that about them and it produces Seth Jarvis and it produces Players who are maybe a little different they've they haven't shied away from taking the really really short kids They haven't shied away from taking some really big kids. They haven't shied. They certainly take a lot of Russians There's just there's less risk aversion there in their approach and I think it pays dividends obviously the trading back is A meme at this point and you just come to expect it We were kind of giving them a hard time in our studio because they were the team that spent the most time on the clock There I think they wait they like to wait out the clock and wait for a potential call to come They're not the team that's submitting their pick 10 seconds after their their name is called um But it it I appreciate it. I respected and even if the results have kind of been mixed over the years They they find get they find enough guys to justify the approach the team that um kicked off that trade down chain reaction for them was the predators and they slayed back in to the end of the first round They took why I call in 10th which I think is really interesting in terms of a a home run cut at a guy who could just be Bar more skilled in that draft slot and then They take Tommy Blile with that 31st pick and I think everyone is is really excited about that especially adding it to the system They already have they took Cameron Reed last year. I believe Tanner Melendike previously just a bunch of skating juice and very mobile modern Defencement there they've made eight first round picks in the past four drafts now I hope for their sake and christmas farland sake that the hit rate is better than the previous era of predators drafting because You look at that list from 2016 to 21 and you know fabro told been in Tomasino Asgrove who who has panned out but they traded and then spechkov and luru who they just traded to to Colorado and They're stocked with a ton of draft capital moving forward. I think they have double digit picks in both 27 and 28 already despite Not really trading any of their premium veterans yet. So I think that'll only Increased but I thought it was a nice approach from christmas farland in his first draft running this team and I'm intrigued by both players And especially why I call in because these guys who grow as much as he did This late in the process while kind of retaining the skill they had at a smaller frame I'm always fascinated to see kind of how that's going to pan out and hopefully he is able to stay healthy Along the way because I know that comes with its own set of challenges But I think for an organization that's constantly like struggled to find these truly elite offensive forwards. I think it was a very reasonable swing for them to take there I agree and I think it was a necessary swing What is the one thing that has defined the history of the national predators right? It's that they've never had an all due respect to filip for asberg They've never had the premium skill guy. They've never had the game breaker up front They've had that on the back end in roman Yoshi and she Weber and pk suban and you go down the list But they've never had and pec arena and pec arena and net they've never had that forward And I'm not saying why it colon will become that But that's the kind of swing that why it colon represents and frankly It's the kind of swing that riker Lee represented a year ago riker Lee and why it colon are two of the six or seven most gifted [BLANK_AUDIO] young players in the sport with the puck in their hands. That doesn't mean they're going to be among these six or seven most productive young players necessarily. They have each of them have warts in their games, colon plays too much one on one. Rikers feet have been in it. Have been a minor concern at times for people, but from a pure skill playmaking pull you out of your seat. Make a play standpoint. Those guys make as many one on one plays as any young players and frankly I include like Gavin McKenna and you've our standberg and those types in that mix from a pure skill standpoint. That's that's the air that they're breathing in. And I just like it whether it pans out or not. I like it and he's an excellent skater so the difference between Colin who goes in the top 10 and Rikers Lee who goes in the 20s is that Colin does it in a very pacy way. He does it on the move. He does it making guys myths mislaterally on cuts and he's got great edges and he can round corners. He's got good speed. He's six foot one like there now after being five foot five a year and a half ago. So there's a I like that and I didn't like the decision to take Brady Martin a year ago. I know for a fact that they were deciding between Brady Martin and Porter Marton. I think in hindsight, we can all already say that they took the wrong player there. But I've liked what they've done around that Brady Martin pick here over the last couple of drafts. I was high on right for a year ago. I like what Tommy Blyell represents. There is certainly to your point. A theme there with with those three kids. Molen Dyke had a tough year last year too. Like Molen Dyke's value is lower today than it was a year ago after spending last year in the HL. But Cameron Reed just won Memorial Cup as a captain of the Kitchen arrangers. He's now going to Michigan and will be a big part of Michigan. Although I do think Landon Dupont's present there sort of takes some of the off some of the offensive opportunity away from Cameron Reed. He'll be a returning on the Canadian World Junior team. And Blyell will be a big part of the American World Junior team and a really, really interesting player for them long term. And all three of those kids are excellent excellent skaters. It took a lot of restraint for me not to just start the show with Beagle Bjork because I part of me wanted to but I think you know my thoughts on a well documented at this point. I do think you know similar to what I said about the crack and getting chase read at seven. I think a much needed W for the jets with everything going on around them to get such a likable player and someone who I think everyone is just excited to track and watch and is going to be something to legitimately build around. I thought, especially once you got into like, let's say even the fourth overall pick. I thought there was a reasonable case to just take. And even if you thought it was a bit high because of how unique of a player he is and how I think he's going to have a relatively immediate impact as well. And so I love that. I don't know if you had any kind of novel notes on on Bjork that we haven't talked about already. But I know it's just the pick in general. Yeah, me and Drance have kind of joked about it all year, but he's he, Lynn was my guy, but Vigo was maybe my second guy and and Drance and I were aligned on that. Drance fans. He's himself a bit of a prospect head and we we've spent a lot of time talking about Vigo. I think the world of Vigo. First of all, the kid is awesome. He's a delight. And I don't say that about all of the kids who tend to be stars coming up. And then the player is just a grot. Like he's a he's a five nine grinder and he wins battles and he's strong. And on top of that has the skill and the smarts and the IQ at among the highest grades in this class as well. But it's just the way he plays. It's how involved he is in everything. He just understands how to play the game. It's there is such a thing as sort of hockey know how. And it's a hard thing to identify. It's a lot easier to identify the white Collins with the hands that pull you out of your seats or Colin Potter or a year ago with the way he skates over more with the way he skated in his draft year. Those guys have elements that pop and you say, okay, that's going to work in the NHL. The harder thing to truly be sure about. And I think that's why it took people at the NHL level some time to get on board. As much as they eventually frankly all did with Vigo. It just is a hard thing to project the guys who just get it and who just figure things out on the ice. And that's what Vigo is going to be and the jets desperately needed a center. I think they wanted one of Caleb or Vigo and they got they got one of those two guys. Obviously. I'll ask you guys. I wanted to quickly talk about just because I thought the fits were were very logical for the organizations are going to or one. Belch is going to Utah with them trading up from 19 to get him just getting a six foot five freak with that skill level is very on brand for Bill Armstrong and then the flames getting carls at six and they take jack hexal at 30 as well. I'm just kind of especially with acquiring that it's already having peric there. I think an important diversification of skills, not that Carl's own offensive ability, especially the shooters is anything to scoff at. But I think certainly the defensive acumen and physicality and some of the snarl that people fell in love with you're in the process is going to be a really nice fit there. And so I thought both were were very logical selections for the teams that took them and what they're stepping into. I thought he was a hand to glove fit like Carl's from a pure fit standpoint felt like the most natural natural fit of any of the players, frankly, in the top nine or 10 picks. Calgary, I know desperately wanted him to be there and weren't sure at through parts of this process if he was going to be there. But you look at the right side of their blue line now and you look at the way that they've drafted in recent years, frankly, they've prioritized the offensive lean guys and not again, not to sit to your point, not to say the Carl's doesn't have that. He absolutely does. He's going to point in the NHL. I'm confident in that. But Simon Nemitz, same per rep, even per stavitch, who was a really positive story for them last year. Henry Mewd's who missed most of last year due to his own knee surgery, but was off to a great start and his natural offensive guy at Michigan. That's what the right side of their blue line looks like. And so now you add this lefty who is just has some natural meanness to his game. Defends very well is an elite skater. That's that's an exciting fit like it will see which of of Nehmech and and Zane sort of truly emerges as the true offense guy there. One of those guys is going to become. I think a true sort of offensive defenseman in the league like a 50 60 point offensive defenseman type. And then you think about pairing one of those guys on a pairing long term with the Carson Carl's who's a lefty and it just makes a lot of sense and to your point on belches. Great fit there for Utah. They have an embarrassment of riches. I think they're extremely well positioned here moving forward. They're bringing in T. J. G inland Caleb Daneway a at the NHL or a cell level next year. I think there's probably only room for one of those guys on the NHL team in the top six. I would guess that it's T. He's the only leg up in that we see Caleb spend some time in the NHL next season. But they've I mean, Denille boots interesting like they just have a little bit of everything we know that length on the back end has been the priority there with all of their guys. Simmichevs obviously the the case study in that but Maverick Lamarou you go through the list there they're an interesting collection of talent now they've got in coolie. It size has been the priority there but in coolie and teach they also have the premium skill guys and frankly even gunner to a certain degree. So there's there's a lot to work with there. I'm interested to see what they do with it and they have now after acquiring Sebastian Kosa. And with Michael Rabel representing one of the better goalie prospects in the sport they have two really young goalies, which is kind of something that as an organization dating back to the Arizona and even Phoenix days. They've they've also lacked and now they have two excellent young goalies that they can work with and hopefully one of those guys hits for them. And the last thing I wanted to ask you about is throughout this process in your conversations you had with teams and kind of how they were approaching this. I think one of the themes we saw this year was teams may be viewing first rounders as currency to improve in a more timely fashion. We saw a high volume of these picks moved. I think only 13 of the top 31 picks were actually taken by the original team that held that pick now some of them were you know trade down kind of moving around the board and still ultimately picking in the first. But we saw a ton of transactions there and I'm just kind of curious if you view it as a one off because of this years class or a potential sort of paradigm shift in the way teams are going to operate. You know with the cap kind of skyrocketing not necessarily like I think you'll see contributors are always going to be incredibly valuable but everyone kind of have in more room to acquire present day contributors and being able to slot them in and trying to do so and you know picks being the easiest way to accomplish it because the UFA market is I think is going to be time and time again. Not a very fruitful way to add in back players. Yes and I think that last part is the most important part here I think it has less to do all of the movement this year actually has less to do with the draft class and more to do with the free agent class. I think every team that doesn't win is not going to ever be comfortable with the status quo of their lineup and so and because they're. They don't feel that they can move the status quo of their lineup with any of the remaining free agents I just think there's a desperation around the lead for change and everybody's got cap space so there's more flexibility. Then we've seen from a cap standpoint in a long long time I think that the rising cap will actually be good for player movement that way. obviously and I think that's going to persist here. We're not going to have 15, 16, 17 teams at the cap anymore. I think we're going to see more and more teams frankly well below the cap and that just gives everybody flexibility. I think cap space is going to become less of a leverage point for teams to leverage in deals and so what is the leverage point? The leverage point is picks and I think we're going hopefully going to see more picks moving forward here now. All right, well great stuff buddy. Throughout this entire process this weekend in particular, I'm going to give you a chance to promote some of that stuff. Let the listeners know what they can look forward to where they can check it out, all that good stuff. Yeah, no, all of my draft grades for all 32 teams I appreciate it are now out at the athletic. If you missed draft night, if you haven't been sort of following on the prospects or if you're a sicko who wants to argue with me about them, all are welcome to enjoy the coverage. Now we turn the page to Landon DuPont and Nazar Privlov in 2027 and the Hulinkogrettsky cups around the corner and the World Junior Summer Showcases around the corner and we're right back into it. There really isn't the the law in the prospect calendar with some of these summer events and with the World Juniors at Christmas time. I don't really have that sort of natural break where I just get to screw off for a month in the summer, but it beats working as they say. So looking forward to getting right back at it with 2027 and really nailing those players down. All right, buddy. We'll keep up the great work and enjoy a little bit of a break here and then get right back after it. We will as well. We'll be back on Monday. We'll have some shows leading up to free agency to get you set up for that and then the big show is as usual every year, breaking down all the signings on July 1st. That is all from us for today. Thank you for subscribing and for listening to the Hockey PDO Cast.