Take It Blak podcast - EPISODE 26 High Ground

SPS Audio is supported by advertising. SPS is Australia's most trusted multi-lingual broadcaster. Our listeners are loyal, highly engaged and have supported countless local businesses. We offer advertising packages for businesses of all sizes. Our experienced sales team will guide you through the process of owning a great campaign. Bring your own ad or have our production team make you something in one of our 68 languages. Start the conversation with your new audience today. Email [email protected] You're a Doomerang. Hello and welcome to Take It Black. I'm Ray Johnston and in this episode I sat down with the co-creators of the new film High Ground. Set in 1919, World War One sniper Travis is now a policeman in the vast and remote landscape of Northern Australia. Travis loses control of an operation, resulting in the massacre of an Indigenous tribe. With his superior officer's intent on burying the truth, Travis leaves disgusted before being forced back 12 years later in the hunt for outlaw Baywara, an Aboriginal warrior attacking new settlers. Recruiting good juck as his tracker, Travis realizes this young mission-raised Indigenous man is the only known massacre survivor. When the truths of Travis's past actions are suddenly revealed, it is Travis who becomes the hunter. Here are co-creators Steven Maxwell-Johnson and Woodyana Marica, speaking with me about High Ground. Take it Black. So I wanted to start by asking how the two of you first met. Ah, well. Sleeping. Sleeping. Dress it around, working up here. Okay, well look, it's really through Yothing Indy. It's on, yeah. So I made a lot of the Yothing Indy video clips, including Treaty, and it's through my association with Yothing Indy that Woodyana and I met. And we've kind of pretty well been working together for a long time, and known each other for a long time, that's over three years. So yeah, it's been a good working relationship. You act well together? Yeah, we do. It's a kind of both ways of learning thing and lots of ways too. We do. Hey, you want to film clips? What precisely he wants? And he was talking and that I want this, and then I'll be flying this camera all over. Because he flies that camera up and down even science back to the front, to flip it, you know? Yeah. This man is just something he can fly around, follow the reaction. Nice. So that's how we're too communicated and unknown, that we could be maybe one day, except because of Amanda and the Yothing Indy project that we were doing, film clips. And how long have you been working on high ground together? That's been a while? It has, really, up to here. Yeah, for look easily, you know, 25 years. So if I had to your boy, really, he wanted to tell a story of the resistance and that early history of what took place on country here in Australia. Unfortunately, perhaps fortunately, I don't think audiences were ready back then for something perhaps this confronting. It's been some great films made since your boy, obviously, as well. And I think the conversation has opened up and I think that the timing now for a story like this is good timing. Good timing and a bad ab, but I understand through connecting to the land, you know, and telling that we are powerful and rich, and that we can describe by our who we are, and us always will, will be always, you know. And you think audiences now are more ready to hear that message and really take it on board and listen. Yeah, perhaps so. Yeah, indeed, indeed, it is the people that didn't understand when I'm standing before the meeting. I stood my ground, this is me, I swear, this is my land, was, will be, you know. Yeah, I stood there. I don't, that's that I cannot be told by my action and I and I contact. And you worked as a producer and an actor, obviously, in the movie, but also as the senior cultural adviser. What did that involve? What did you do in that role? Oh, wow. I was really my last stories like that, but through the acting and the role, wanted to teach and tell the other other people that are doing the same thing. But not in and in through the leader guidance of leadership, you know. Yeah. So this could be in this film, there's a leadership there, you know, instead of telling, telling. We are so jealous, but young people are already brainwashed in through their miserable life and mistakes that they take and drugs and alcohol, you know. Yeah. And that being so clear to hold that precious memory or precious knowledge. So it's a beautiful thing working with Woody Arna, he's obviously a incredibly powerful songman known across Arnhem Land, and he's about bringing East and West together too. So we've worked right across that country and there's connections there through the songs and the stories. And, you know, Woody Arna was able to bring all of that together with the family. So there's years and years and years of sitting down and consulting and talking and singing and considering, you know, many aspects because, you know, there is things to change as you move across country in different places and there's different things to be considered. So it was quite an intense process, you know, bringing all of those factors together, different languages, different clans, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, and this is a really important story to tell, but it's a difficult one as well. It's really hard. So I suppose all of that comes together to make sure that it's being told in in the proper way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a lot of, a lot of detail. A lot of detail. A lot of things had to be made right across in different places, appropriately. There's objects in the film. I'll get a secret and yeah, with the, you know, difficult things that were covering in the movie, you know, it must have been, must have been tough to be on set as well for some of those scenes. How, how did you make sure that you were looking after yourself and how did the other actors make sure that they were looking after themselves afterwards to feel or cry? While we, we had this, um, uh, cabin. Good bed. Good bed. And I would, um, grow to, uh, costume by, yeah, yeah, yeah, right there. The crew would, the crew was just right there. Yeah, great. And missing, missing paid, you know, or paid or whatever it was, it was just spot on right there. Yeah, just just for them to be able to make it the same as what as before there, you know. Yeah. And there was this incredible energy to making the film because you know, a lot of people had never had an experience like that. So to suddenly be immersed not only, you know, within the office living culture left on the planet, also the beautiful country, and all the prejudica with it. And it's very powerful. The sound, the sound effects, they never think. Yeah. I mean, everyone was on this journey, you know, and there was this commitment there, this passion to tell the story. And, um, that's incredible energy. And I think everyone in a sense was on a journey with the story in their own way. And I think that's all reflected in so many different ways with what we were able to achieve. Yeah, and telling the story that it happened on that country, on that country must have been a really special feeling as well. Yeah. Yeah. I was growing up, I was growing up and because of my father, I only told me on campus stories, you know, his story tells us he's been told he's been told. But on his journey that he was growing up and then with my grandfather, his father, and then the big happened while they were over in top of the Anumland. And then south of Anumland, in place with Garnam, that's when, um, the, uh, the, um, massacre happened. You know, on his real, his time, you know, but he was lucky. They were up in one of the uncle who was survivor of the, um, massacre. He was crippled when he sneaked away while the shooting was going, he sneaked away and breed through the straw. So that was his story. That was his story. Wow. Happened right across the river. Yeah. People families would hide away. Hiding away. Like that. Like that. So, um, you know, yeah, a lot of inspiration, a lot of inspiration were different. But this one, probably one powerful knowledge that everyone had in Queensland and down south of West and Anumland, you know, we could hear that these survivors had a way to escape. And they, they are survivors, you know, and then still we are, um, um, uh, servant land, servant people that we're still there. Nothing has changed. We're still a cultural and powerful people that, you know, right, of course, even wagerie. That's it. How did country respond to you being there in filming with a lot of animals around? I heard you had to deal with all the crocodiles. Most, most of the, um, and, and invited people or the, um, assets of the land doesn't just walk up, you know, but through the, uh, blood, blood, love, sweat going and calling out, calling out the scout man and calling out to the place, to the whole area. She responds that we didn't have any, uh, accident, whatever, there. Not at all. For seven weeks. Wow. Yeah. Great. Hot day. Yeah. The various plans. Yeah. You know, the different language groups. You know, and that's where we were and what we were doing each day. And that was all very special. And, um, you know, of course we had to have safety measures in place, you know, shooters on set, we're in every winter, because there's some, you know, extremely big crocodiles. That's where they live. That's their place. Yeah. And, um, snakes and, yeah, the, the horses. Yeah. The horses freed data a couple of times and bolted, you know, scared of the snake and the grass. Yeah. However, as Winianna says, there was a, there was a, uh, uh, it's like we were very welcome. We were welcomed and we were kind of looked after on the journey. Um, and it was like we're all killing this story. It was good. Very special. Yeah. The essence of the land. Because the essence of the land and our essence will be shared to the other essence right across. That's that we are one from other earth and people of the earth that we are presenting this for the whole Australia and the whole, um, the world. First time, it's, it's, it's northern. It's that of Western, northern action. It's the northern instead of Western. I love that. And yeah, you did show this around the world. It was at Berlin Film Festival. Yeah. How did the audiences there respond to it? Oh, they were just saying, it was different, kind of different, you know? Yeah. And in there, the Scarp Man and the land are just, they were just two, um, he cops that they loved it very, very much, you know, of the scenery of the how the camera took them through. And there's of course, there's a really interesting connection as well because of the history and the persecution that took place in that part of the world. Yeah. I'm drawing the war and, um, you know, it was, uh, you know, there's definitely a crossover with history and what happened here with the massacres and the, the killings and I mean, obviously, you know, there's those kind of sensitivities of storytelling as well. So, um, you know, there was a, the story was wonderfully received. And I think people were very, very moved by the horror of, of it all, to be honest. And then obviously it was screened in Ireland as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How was the audience response there and how was it different to in Berlin? Well, they knew everyone. Everyone's related. And even if they didn't know, we're claiming someone. And the language, of course, you know, a lot of subtext going on. And, um, no, it was beautifully received. Lots of laughs, lots of dogs fighting. And during the screen, but, um, no, it's a beautiful experience. I mean, it really is such a ownership there. I mean, it really is, um, a film from the heart of that place. And, and all of the families and, um, you know, makes it very proud to be able to take it back there. And, and that was, it's really, it's first screening in Australia. So, yeah. And for a lot of the actors in the film, it was their first time on screen. So, their family would have been there, seeing them for the first time. And that would have been a proud moment. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So, this film, you, you see, Jacob, actually, says something really beautiful, didn't he? And Berlin, he said his grandmother nearly had heart attack. Oh, yeah. When, um, she saw, yeah. No, no. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. After, after, after Berlin. That's when was it? Yeah. And we do say in the film, kind of, both perspectives of this war. And I wanted to know, you know, whose story is it that's at the center of this film? Because you do say both sides. Sure. Look, we, we, we ultimately, you know, the protagonist, we say as good look, the young, the young man. And, you know, it's his, it's a story about him. He's a, he's a, he's a density and reconnecting with his roots and his culture. Um, you know, it's a story about missed opportunities. I think every character within the film is on that journey within the moon, so it's, it's, um, exciting in all of those ways. Um, but the story is driven by gook, he's the one making things happen, which is a, uh, a fresh perspective. Um, that we felt we were coming from. And, you know, Chris, the writer of myself and William, and Munder Roy and families right across, you know, we really sat down and tried to think how, what, what, what is the most effective and powerful way that we could tell a story. So it is a fiction and so it's history. Um, but it was about allowing ourselves to be inspired by many events and many, so many, many events and many characters right across Australia, really, to, to sort of try and come up with ultimately what the story became. Yeah. And, and obviously there, there is still a sympathy there for some of the, the white fellas in this film. Sure. How do you make sure that there aren't elements of, you know, white savior in the movie? Well, I mean, that looked away. There's always good and bad. There's always both sides. What liked to hope is we found a balance. You know, there were people who, who were learning and trying and having their experience in this completely amazing course of our history, really. I mean, the confusion and the treachery and the things that were going on, adding country, the distances involved, the lack of communication, the things that people did or didn't do or didn't know what to do or didn't understand and the confusion was it, it was all around. And we hope that we've captured real characters in a, a really difficult situation, um, who are confused, who are making the right and the wrong choices in all sorts of different ways on both sides. Yeah. Um, so it's, uh, you know, we, we hope we've caught some of that complexity, um, with what we've done. And, um, I don't think it's, it's, it's just as simple as being this or that would like to think it's a, a really good mix of, of, of different elements. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. It has been 20 years since your last film came out. No, 20 years. That's a long time. How has your approach to storytelling changed in that time as a director? That's a good question. Um, I don't know if you, yeah, approach, I don't know so much if my, the approach has changed. It's just, um, you, you grow older and wiser. And I think the way that you become immersed in your understanding of, of other people, including yourself and probably most importantly, uh, changes and evolves. And, um, you know, this has been such a long journey. Um, I got to a point where it wasn't about, uh, this film, when are we going to make this film? It's like this will happen when it happens. Um, that it will find its own time and its own life. Um, so there's a huge learning process, amazing journey. I mean, you know, having this fellow by my side is an incredibly a beautiful exchange of many things. And, um, we learn off each other. We bounce off each other creatively. Yeah. And, um, you know, Chris is in the mix. He's incredible writer as, uh, as our families and right across the animal and really in the process. So was there anyone putting pressure on to make this movie happen quicker? Always everyone kind of on the journey of it all happened when it happens. Um, maybe a little bit of the start I was keen to, to try and get it out because, you know, you thought, whoa, now's a good time. Now's a good time. But we shouldn't get that away because, um, when's a good time? Yeah. Um, you know, really. I mean, um, this year apparently is the worst time. I think post co it's actually perfect. Um, and let's, you know, we hope that it, um, creates good discussion and reignites. Uh, some of the important things need to consider about industry. Yeah. What, what is it about post COVID that makes this a good time? Or about a time, do you think? Well, I think we've all had time to reconfigure and rethink what it means to be human and who we all are in this world. Um, what do you know? What do you think? I reckon it was, uh, right timing that film has came out and to connect, uh, because of the changing of the date, uh, reckon, it's completely changed it. And, uh, I was, um, the movie and, um, uh, other stuff that would change a bit in the industry. You know, we've been, our essence that we're essence, our spiritual, um, uh, people that worked with us, uh, along by and waiting for the times, this time of, uh, to happen. Um, so what are you hoping that audiences walk away from this film with, you know, conversations, knowledge, powerful knowledge, powerful knowledge, conversation that they would carry. It was that some of them heard when they were small, that the movie would explain everything. Yeah. What happened now? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I, I, we do hope that, um, people are moved. Um, and people will rethink, um, our history. I hope people are entertained. I, I think, I hope people are immersed in the film for what it is. It's a great story and it's an untold story. It's an important story. Yes. Um, a lot of work was put into trying create something that was a wonderful experience. So you're not told to think in any particular way, you go away from the film and you're affected in the ways that you're, you're affected and you make your own decisions and choices about what that is. Um, it was a very deliberate action to not politicize it, to not be polemic on indigenous affairs, to, um, go for story, go for action to create something that was exciting and immersive and really took, takes an audience on a journey to a place in a time that perhaps hasn't been realised in this way before. And there's a beauty in it as well because you, you're saying such a beautiful part of the world and the filming of that as well must have been an experience that's a lot of drone shots were used, I'm guessing. Yeah, and allowed to film in country that hasn't been filmed on before and all those permissions and, you know, the, um, the respect that goes with that and the, the storytelling that comes out of that as well and the way that kind of impacts us as filmmakers, just been on that country and how it's, you know, how we, we see it and interpret it and fly with it and move with it. And, um, yes, been an incredible journey. Is there anything that you'd love people to know about this film, any part of making it or, or anything else in regards to it? I, I just want to tell them that I, I, I, I swear in the, the meeting that I swear into the silver that it, my, when some point being, I, I, I, I, I was then, I stand who I am. I tell, express on that, without no subtitles, not nothing, that I'm, I, I am who I am. I was who, I was here. I was worse and will be that, that I stood in bed for it, that I am who, I am, you know, that was powerful saying that gave me goosebumps. I'm like, yes, but I felt that. And the, and, and, and, um, um, the delivery, you know, it's a special, it means of the mother earth, the creator, the woman who gave us our life with the children, the, the way, uh, delivery, it represents the wound of the woman. And, and, and, and, uh, alliances as well, means a land and the wound and the alliances of, um, other clients that, uh, touch to the, each day, then have a alliances through who you can come in only, precisely people, you know, clients, um, leave this, and special, connect to the sun and the Father's Sky and the mother earth creation. It's a really special thing these audiences are getting to be able to learn this. And it was his family's, my, my family's, uh, that, um, um, special objects. Thank you to you and your family for sharing it with everyone. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And I do have one final question. One of the, one of the themes that's touched on in the film is anger and what we do with that anger. And I wanted to ask your feelings on it. Do we lose ourselves to anger or is it all we have? How do we move forward? Do we lose our anger? Do we lose ourselves to our anger? Does it consume us and take away who we are? Or do we need it to fuel us to be who we need to be? Yeah. Yeah. Fix me. Solve this for me. Well, the very question is a dilemma, isn't it? Yeah. There's two sides to that. And, um, you know, it's like the, the, the, you know, looking back on history, you know, Pembleboy and the actually some of these great freedom photos. There was a time where there was this, uh, different ideas on how to deal with the situation. Yeah. You know, old man, our story is about trying to think about Makarata and to create a dialogue and an intelligence to deal with this situation, whereas others just wanted to fight and be strong. And, um, I don't think, uh, it's about right or wrong. I think it's, uh, a human, it's been human and how each person is in that moment. And I mean, our film, we explore that. And, uh, you know, that's for the other anger, uh, the anger, Makarata, the real life, it could be, it could be wrong from some of the tribes of years. I was right. And spearing and spears flying in. And only, only experienced people that could be in or the person who, who, who, who's, uh, one now, um, murdered somebody. Um, no, no. Um, murdered. You know, he killed, you know, that man is going to be, is going to be there and dodging the spear. If he knows to dodge, because this, old spears flying in and to hate him or get him, they got to move around and be self-defense. You know, that's how, uh, well, that's how we, um, put up up there and, uh, on the only way. If it's that, dodge, it's every, every, every, every spear, it is life. The Makarata is going to be, at the end, end of the day, to be, to consult with you. At least, that year, the, uh, dodge, old spears. No, it's Makarata. Makarata here. At the end, you can be dancing, you can present on Kurodal, or myself is, um, King Brown, my total and my mother clan would be Baru clan, you know, uh, Kurodal people, and Sha people, and Barakura, we, all this nation over there, you know. We're, we're, so at the end, by this Makarata, Shabunos, and then the spearhead would spear the person on the thigh, hitting that, uh, that much, the bone, just a flesh. That's Makarata, private system, and, and, and to, uh, like in, in a bigger, bigger ways, big of a, uh, terrible happen to, clan to clan of fighting over a land and, and connecting the creation and whatever, what have that, um, uh, payback resolution, resolution problem balance, balance, the installed balance, it's been, um, stated in the Uluru statement, all the heart, um, as a powerful concept, um, it's a very big concept with many parts to it, um, and, uh, land rights, yeah, over these, we have lost, and what else? All the fight that we hear, you know, and recently the, uh, by satanry, and, uh, whatever, this Makarata, this, it's talks about the creation, and what's happened back there, within us, is happening to the big, uh, uh, scale and big aperture, yeah, that we should have Makarata, stabbing, stabbing government, this government, our government, you know, it's not, it's not poor, or whatever, no, it's a system, it's a system of law, you know, yeah, yeah, and it's, it's a beautiful, uh, connection that Whitiana has to this whole process, his, his, his father was involved in the ritual practitioner that hangs in parliament house to this day, the very first document, so to speak, that was handed over to say, we're actually here, and, uh, surprise, matters, and, um, you know, there's a beautiful connection that kind of folds back with this, um, fella here, and, um, Emily, and, you know, everybody, so it's, uh, all of that, uh, is there for us to, uh, be inspired by, yeah, as filmmakers and co-creators, it's good. Well, it's an incredible film you've made, thank you so much for making it, for all the hard work that's gone into it over all these years, and thank you for sitting down to have a yarn with me about it today, it's been wonderful, thank you. Right, thank you very much, yeah, hopefully, um, you know, people get up and go and have a look, it's, it very much is a movie, you need to see it in the cinema, it's a mercy, it's big, it's a big country, it's a big story, and, um, I'd really encourage people to try and have that cinematic experience. Yeah, if you can get out and get to the movies, we haven't been able to go to the movies, oh yeah, so get into the cinema, and I, yeah, I, I can imagine that it must sound amazing in a cinema as well, I've watched it from home, and I've got a good speaker, but not as a good as in the cinema, and you just hear all the birds and, and the song and everything, it's just incredible, and my dog loved it as well, she was like, what's that? Yeah, I'm like, it's all right, girl, you can sit down, but yeah, thanks, thanks again, thanks for, thanks for joining me today. Thank you. High ground is out now at selected cinemas. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to leave us a rating and subscribe to take it black wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ray Johnston, who are you? See you later, and remember to take it black. SBS is Australia's most trusted multi-lingual broadcaster. Our listeners are loyal, highly engaged, and have supported countless local businesses. Start the conversation with your new audience today, email [email protected].