8: T.J. Versus The City Of Chicago

>> Hello? >> Hey, Donnie, can you hear me? >> Yes, I can, how you doing, Frank? >> Donnie Ballard is TJ's brother-in-law. He and TJ were close. Donnie would stop by TJ's house when he was getting ready to go to court and is lawsuit against the city and the detective who put him away from murder. >> You know, me and my wife would go there and hit me on these clothes. I mean, you know, we talked about certain things like man, I can't believe he did that. >> Donnie says TJ seemed happy after he was released from prison. But that changed. >> When the bitterness I saw coming out was after the federal trial for the lawsuit. A lot of things were dredged up. I feel. And I believe back a lot of memories. And a lot of things came to light. It weren't known before. >> He didn't know the full story until the lawsuit. >> Correct. >> TJ and his lawyers were claiming that the police set him up for the murder of Eric Moro in 1993. Therefore, TJ deserved millions for all the years he spent in prison. For three weeks, TJ watched as all the details of his murder case played out in front of him. He had a front row seat as witnesses relived the investigation that changed his life. >> What are you claiming the police did wrong? >> I think they just framed me for a murder. >> Now a judge had already found TJ innocent of the murder. And he couldn't be tried again in criminal court. That's double jeopardy. But in the civil trial, the city said TJ was guilty of the murder. And he should never have been exonerated. If the city could convince the jury of that, he wouldn't get any money. In the city's mind, they were retrying TJ for murder. TJ sat through the court. TJ sat through that. And I made him angry. From WBEZ Chicago, I'm Frank Maine. And this is motive. TJ versus the city of Chicago. TJ's central argument in his civil case was this. In order to convict him of murder, the police, specifically one Chicago police detective, named Jerome Bogucky, fabricated evidence by pressuring witnesses. Bogucky conducted a sloppy investigation to quickly solve a murder. And Bogucky ignored evidence that pointed to another suspect. Facing off in court, were two of the best Chicago lawyers the money could buy. >> I don't think there's any evidence that Detective Bogucky did anything wrong. And I never did. >> Attorney Andy Hale led the defense of the city and the police. On TJ side, attorney John Lovie. >> We've picked cases where we believe the person's innocent, where we believe that the person's rights have been violated and an injustices occurred. >> Right away, Lovie knew that TJ had a solid case. >> So it seems pretty obvious to all of us that something went very, very awry here. You know, at every stage, the defense in the city could have acknowledged that. They fought the exoneration. They fought the civil suit. They contended right through a long trial where TJ really was guilty. And it's BS. >> Do you believe TJ was guilty of Eric Moro's murder? >> For the police, Andy Hale. >> You know, after looking at all the evidence again, the more compelling case, in my opinion, is that TJ Jimenez was the shooter. I think by far. >> This thing is complicated and there's so many names that's kind of like a Russian novel. That's all due my best here. Eric Moro is murdered at 6.25 pm. Detective Jerome Bugucki is assigned to the case. To start with, Detective Bugucki is two promising witnesses to interview. One is a boy named Larry Tooful, who was with the victim when he was shot. You might remember him. The other witness is a man named Phil Torres. Phil Torres knew TJ from the neighborhood, and he supposedly saw the shooting from a third floor window. In the first interviews with the police, both Larry and Phil will give Bugucki vague descriptions of the shooter, and they don't mention TJ. But then, later that night, at 1 a.m., Phil Torres calls Bugucki and says the shooter was TJ. Torres becomes one of the most important witnesses in TJ's murder trial. >> All right, sir. If you'd state and spell your name for the record, please. >> Phil Torres, B-H-I-L-L-O-I-P-D-O-R-R-E-S. This is a killer story. >> Yes. >> This is a video deposition of Phil Torres, taking almost two decades after the shooting, and it is nutty. >> All right, how old are you, sir? >> 48. >> What do you do for living? >> I'm disability. >> What do you do with your time? >> Hello. >> Good-hi. >> All right, let's bring you back to 1993. What were you doing then? >> Good-hi. >> All right, by the way, sir, are you? >> I just sat in mind today. >> No, no. >> Tell us why. >> Say, good-hi. >> Lovie asks Torres if they should do the deposition another day. Torres says he's always high. Torres has a pack of marbles and a can of coke on the table in front of him. He can barely sit up straight. When his head isn't on the desk, he glairs at Lovie. As the questions go on, Torres gets angrier and angrier. At one point, he pulls the clip on Mike off his shirt and he threatens to walk out. >> How many times are going to keep doing this? >> All right, if you were. >> Well, sir, if you leave, and it's your option to leave, but the judge is going to make you come back if you leave, sir, because then we got to do it again. Why don't we just get it over with? >> The lawyer's negotiated time limit with Torres. Lovie and Hale would each get 15 minutes of questions, with five minutes each for follow-ups. >> All right, when you were first interviewed by the police, you told them you didn't know who shot Eric Morrow. Wasn't that true, sir? >> Yeah. >> All right. It was at the truth that you didn't know who shot Eric Morrow. >> I believe it was TJ, okay. >> Did you ever claim to anybody to be a hundred percent certain about who committed this crime? >> I don't know. I think your 15 minutes is up. Max. >> Attorney Andy Hale's turn. >> Who mentioned the name TJ? You were the police. >> I'm sorry, I must have. >> Right. And did you testify at the criminal trial that TJ was the person you saw shoot Eric? >> I believe so, yeah. >> And was that truthful testimony? >> Yeah. >> Yes? >> Yeah. >> Lovie's turn. >> All right. Did you never claim to be certain who shot anybody? Did you see it? >> Objection. I asked an answer. >> Did you, sir? >> No. >> I did my examination of him. Then the defense lawyer got up there. And really was aggressive with him. And by the end of his exam he was saying what the defense lawyer said. He's like, yeah, I saw TJ. And then I went up and did my recross. I was like, well, wait a minute. He said that. And he's like, you know what? You're right. And it went back and forth for like eight rounds. And it got just ridiculous. >> The police came to his house sometime after one I am. And at some point they beat him down. And he said, that's not true. And that's just a complete lie and a fabrication. That's not true. >> This video deposition was played at TJ's Civil Trial. >> And what we argued to the jury was, yeah, it was annoying to watch that. These lawyers argue back and forth. But this illustrated before your eyes that this guy would say whatever it took to get out of the room. He did it to get out of his deposition room. He's like agreeing with everybody. >> The police kept telling you. >> Objection. >> We have other people. >> My sister told me it was Tuesday. >> All right. And the police told you other people were saying it was TJ. And then you finally said, finally, it was TJ. That's what happened, isn't it, sir? >> Yeah, okay, yeah. >> All right, whatever, let's go. I'm done. Okay, I'll spin more than. >> I have one question. Because yeah, if you ask questions then I'm going to ask. >> No, man, that's what they keep going. >> That's what they keep going. Tina Elder was a woman who claimed she saw the shooting on the street. She testified that she didn't know TJ at the time, but she did know the victim, Eric Mora. The morning after the murder, TJ is arrested and taken to the police station. I remember some officers coming to get me, and handcuffed me and took me to a line-up. After Tina Elder arrives at the police station, she's brought to the line-up room. Quote, "The police placed me at a desk. On the desk was a photo of Eric and a photo of Thaddeus Jimenez. I did not see and was not showing any other photos. I looked at both photos prior to viewing the line-up." Then, on the other side of a large one-way mirror, TJ and some other kids stood side by side. "They were called us by name. Jimenez is standing right here. This guy is standing right there." Tina picked out TJ, the kid she saw on the Polarade photo on the desk. Attorney John Lovie. "Showing people photographs, altars, eyewitness memory." "People can be steered to an identification without even realizing they're being steered. And not just children or unsviscated people, but everybody can be steered." In his civil trial, TJ got to look at a police photo of himself as a kid. It was like the Polarade that had been supposedly placed in front of Tina Elder. TJ's brother-in-law, Donnie Ballard. "No one actually knew that Bugatti left a picture of TJ sitting on the table, and kind of an eyewitness." "I mean, how much more corrupt is that? That's not wrong. That's not bad police work." For TJ, John Lovie. "For a long time, our criminal justice system and others, frankly, have relied on people pointing a finger at somebody and saying, 'I saw that guy as evidence, even powerful evidence.'" You know, persuades, juries, courts convict based on that. Turns out, not so reliable. At the civil trial, Detective Bugatti testified that he had no idea that a photo of TJ was on the desk. Within 24 hours of the shooting, Detective Bugatti has his witness statements from Phil Torres, Larry Tufel, and Tina Elder. He solves the murder. TJ did it. Less than a day. Job done. Bugatti's job is to solve cases. For TJ, John Lovie. He can put this one in the wind column. He can give this to the state's attorney. It's a murder. It's unsolved. Bugatti gets involved. It's solved. If you're a police officer and you're Detective, that's how you get scored. But then Bugatti gets a surprise. Well, a week later, the case broke open. The case broke open because the tape emerged. A tape of someone else confessing to the murder. The original Nosferatu is getting a second life, with a live score by Circuit AU featuring Alan Sparhawk at the Studebaker Theatre. Saturday, October 17th, learn more at WBEZ.org/events. On a secret recording, a teenager supposedly won Carlos Torres confesses to the murder. Torres was a 14-year-old from the neighborhood. On the tape, the boy is talking to a grown-up in Spanish. Here's a translation read by an actor. When I fired the shot, I ran. You just fired one? It was one when he hit me here. Hit me close to the nose, and so then I had to do it. On the tape, Juan Carlos Torres goes on to mention that TJ's been arrested for the murder. Then they pinned the blame on another one that I don't know, and they pinned the blame on the other gangboy. And he's in jail, so they think he's the one that did that. Where did this tape come from? Here's a fact. Whoever committed the murder was accompanied by another boy, Victor Romo, age 12. After the shooting, Victor ran home and told his dad about what happened, and that the shooter was his friend, Juan Carlos Torres. Victor was in his school for several days. He said he had the chickenpox. Meanwhile, Victor's dad was freaking out. He was afraid his son was going to end up being accused of pulling the trigger. So Victor's dad said he did a bit of his own detective work. He says he found Juan Carlos Torres, and secretly recorded him, confessing to the murder. Back in 1993, with TJ sitting in jail, what did Detective Bogucki do with this new potential evidence? Actually, very little. He went to Juan Carlos Torres' house and asked if he committed the murder. Torres said no. Bogucki asked if he ever talked to Victor Romo's dad. Torres again said no. Bogucki never brought him in for an interview, and never checked out his alibi. Do you think Jerome Bogucki's lack of a complete investigation is a central theme in this case, that he was lazy or more than that? The way that I think makes the most sense is tunnel vision. For TJ, John Lobby. He's not an evil guy. He didn't wake up that morning and say I think I'll frame a 13-year-old per murder. But you can't fall in love with your first hypothesis, and then only accept the evidence that supports it and disregard the evidence that doesn't support it. Now, there's a lot of debate about whether this tape is genuine. During the civil trial, TJ's lawyer, John Lobby, called the tape a confession to a murder. Andy Hale, the attorney for the police, argued that the tape was just an elaborate fake created by a desperate father. Think about it. The confession? The bombshell confession? We had an audio expert who debunked that. Victor's dad testified that he secretly taped one Carlos Torres with a recorder in his pocket in a restaurant. Hale's audio expert said that's impossible. He said if it was in a pocket of a jacket, it'd be so muffled, the sound quality would be horrible. He said if it's in a restaurant, you'd hear shuffling of utensils, people eating, waiters going by, we debunked that whole thing. Whether or not this tape is genuine, TJ's lawyers say that Detective Bugucky should have at least tried to investigate it. When this new evidence came in, then it wasn't TJ, and in fact it was somebody else. It was, in a sense, too late for him, because then he would have had to acknowledge, well geez, then how did I push these other people into saying somebody did it if they didn't do it. In January of 2012, at TJ's civil trial, Detective Bugucky's murder investigation was picked apart from every angle. But one of the most powerful moments in court came from a man who wanted forgiveness for saying that his friend committed the murder. Well, I got to court on time, my aunt bringing me over there. She was like, she wasn't by real aunt, she was her friend and the family. She knew my aunt, they worked together, and she was a good friend. Larry Tufel hadn't seen TJ in person since they were kids. You know, he had his suit on. He looked good. I haven't seen him, he got big, you know, from being inside. We were both little skin and kids when we were gang bangers, you know, just little punks and stuff. TJ's attorney, John Lovie. We were examining Larry, another lawyer was doing it not myself, and he had a whole bunch of questions. And Larry was sort of getting agitated. He was getting ruffled on the stand, and he just sort of lost patience with the question. Just sort of looked at TJ. Larry says, quote, "I knew you were innocent the whole time, but I didn't forget you. I had to fix it. And I wanted you to be free the whole time. I'm sorry man, I always knew you were innocent." It wasn't rehearsed, it wasn't anything but authentic in genuine, and I remember the lawyer and our team had more questions. He wanted to finish his outline and we're basically like tugging on his coat, like sit down. There's nothing else to say. Larry says TJ was in tears. He was crying. You know, he forgave me, you know. I was surprised because I would hate myself. It was that happen to me. I'd be angry, you know. Andy Hale, the attorney for the police, doesn't buy Larry's performance. TJ's not mad, right? And maybe TJ's not mad because he actually knows he did it. Hey, sorry man, you know. Hey, we're cool. There's only 16 years of my life. We're good. I felt so fucking good. I felt like I had the weight of the world on my shoulders. I could finally put it down for once. Get on with my life. You know, be free from all this. And that is true, man. The truth will set you free, man. What do you think of Larry Tooful? I think he was a young scared kid. TJ's mother, Vicki, doesn't hold any grudges against Larry. She feels differently about Detective Bugucki. I still want to punch him. I still do. While TJ was in prison, Vicki would call Detective Bugucki twice a year. On her son's birthday, now in the anniversary of the day that TJ was arrested. In court, Vicki was warned by TJ's lawyers, not to say anything to Bugucki. I was shaking so bad in the bench that my sister Ladi was sitting next to me. She goes, "What the hell is wrong with you?" I go, "I know. I just can't. I can't let this SOB get one more inch of my son." Vicki claims that one point in court, she watched Detective Bugucki stand up and walk out of the room. She casually followed him. Bugucki went into the men's room when he came out. Vicky was waiting. He said, "Thought you'd seen the last of me, hum or the fucker." Detective Bugaki took the stand. John Lovie, the attorney for TJ, pummeled him with questions. The testimony ended with this. Lovie, if you could recommend all over again, whether TJ should be prosecuted for the murder of Eric Moro, knowing what you've seen so far, would you do it again? Bugaki, it would have to be looked at again, would have to be looked at again. But if all the witnesses said what they said in the beginning and had the demeanor that they did, as was in 1993, I would have to say yes. Lovie, are you saying you would or you wouldn't? Bugaki, I don't know. That's what I would say. During TJ's testimony in court, he and his lawyers spent hours talking about what it was like to grow up in prison. John Lovie. Some of my clients are not articulate about describing how shitty prison is. And TJ is. I thought he was a very engaging person. For the police, Andy Hale. When he got up on the witness stand, he was somebody that the jury could relate to. And I was impressed with him. That's just the way he was. He got up there and told it like it was. He's an authentic person. I think the jury saw the authenticity. I was kind of sad to listen to it, and a little bit makes a little bit angry. This is the head juror from TJ's civil trial. Her name is Deborah. She asked that I not use her last name. The thing that sticks out most in Deborah's mind more than seven years after being in that courtroom was TJ's testimony about prison. I don't even remember how old he was when he got arrested. You remember? Oh, it's disgusting. How can they do that to him? It was terrible. It was terrible to listen to that. It's very difficult to overcome the sympathy that comes from that. All I can say is, look, if they committed the murder, prison is where they go, and prison is prison. But according to Deborah, the city's arguments that TJ really was guilty of murder were irrelevant. The jurors had made up their minds from day one. I felt like he was already tried and convicted and exonerated. So I didn't need that confirmation that he didn't do it. You know what I mean? We were just basically there to see whether or not he deserved the money. I told Andy Hale that Deborah and the jurors never really considered his evidence that TJ was guilty. It's painful to hear that. I laugh, but it's not a funny matter, but this is the difficulty with defending these cases. Here are a few facts that the jury knew from the beginning. Another judge had cleared TJ of the murder. TJ had something called a certificate of innocence from the state. Not only that, but Juan Carlos Torres had been charged with Eric Moro's murder. And he was awaiting his day in court. So the jury hears that. Now, it does not mean that the jury has to assume TJ him innocent. But I get it when they hear that evidence, they conclude, hey, if he's innocent, then I guess we're just considering damages. How long did you deliberate? I know it's a few hours. A couple of hours. We all kind of were on the same page, so it really wasn't that dramatic. There was 12 of us and we all agreed, so that should say something. I kind of knew he was going to get it. TJ's mom, Vicki. I kept looking at the jurors to say, make sure you're paying attention. Not like the criminal trials. Pay attention. And then there was a guy in front of us. I guess he was a journalist too. And he had one of those tablets you write on. And I see him write 25. 25 million dollars. It was one of the single biggest payouts for a wrongful conviction in history. And I know that was one of the concerns of one of the jurors was, you know, what he's going to do with the money. And I personally felt that it really wasn't none of our business because he earned it tenfold in my opinion. Once the verdict was right, he stood up. He mouthed. Thank you to all of us. His mom was crying to thank you, but they took us right into the back. I mean, I would have liked to have shook his hand or gave him a hug and told him to take care of himself or something. But I didn't have the opportunity to so. After the jury was let out, there was one more thing to do. TJ could have got more money. You could have asked for punitive damages from Detective Bugucki. Bugucki's house, his car, his bank account. It could have all been TJ's. But TJ agreed to forego all that. If Detective Bugucki in that courtroom, in that moment would apologize to him. And we hadn't negotiated the terms of the apology. Now, keep in mind Bugucki had sat through three weeks of trial. He had a front row seat to this. He saw the score. He knew he had screwed up. He knew TJ had suffered. He listened to TJ describe what this had done to his life. He listened to TJ's family describe what this has done to TJ's life. He knew he had done something that was really bad. Here's the apology from the court record. Lovie, do you want to apologize to Mr. Jimenez? And I will leave this one to you. Do you want to apologize? Bugucki, yes. Lovie, please, in your own words, whatever you want to say. Bugucki, I'm sorry if you have been wronged. People have choices. He could have given a genuine apology. He chose not to. He had negotiated. He had given a apology, so he gave a fake apology. After the non-apology, court is adjourned. There's nothing harder than taking a verdict like that. Andy Hale, we went back to City Hall to have a discussion about the verdict. Oh, yeah, we literally went from court and walked to City Hall. Was it a tough meeting? Yes. He saw it, but he may have gotten a million, maybe two million. He wasn't looking to get $25 million. It just happened. TJ won big. That day, he was smiling. But according to his brother-in-law, Donnie Ballard, the trial was never about the money for TJ. He didn't feel that was his money. His whole thing was to prove that Detective Bugucki was in the wrong, which meant CPD was in the wrong. But it all traces back to that one person, Detective Bugucki. Who are you? Who are you, Detective Bugucki? That's what I would like to ask him to his face. Who? The fuck are you? Andy Hale, the attorney for the police, reached the now retired Detective Bugucki on our behalf to see if he'd talk with us. He declined. One more thing. A year passes. One Carlos Torres goes on trial for murder. Many of the same witnesses from TJ's Civil Trial file into criminal court to provide testimony on whether Torres was a man who shot and killed Eric Morrow. It doesn't go well for the prosecutors. In his ruling, the judge says, quote, "There are too many lies for this court, for me, to say that beyond a reasonable doubt, one Carlos Torres shot and killed Eric Morrow." There's a finding of not guilty of all charges. In your heart, who do you think did this? Do you think Juan Carlos Torres got away with murder? Or what, what do you think? I don't know. Sometimes I do. Sometimes I don't. The victim's mother, Mary Morrow. And I still don't. I still don't know. So did Eric ever get justice? I don't think so. I felt so sorry for Eric's mother. You know, how do you think she feels after all this bullshit? Larry Tufel was Eric Morrow's friend. After originally saying it was TJ who killed him, today's positive that it was Juan Carlos Torres. I can't believe this guy's free right now. I really wouldn't mind killing them myself, but I'm not that kind of person, but I think I would have someone's anger. I probably wouldn't be able to stop punching his ass until he's fucking dead. I tracked down where Juan Carlos Torres was working. I wasn't able to talk to him, but I reached him online. He wrote, quote, "Remember, I was barely 14. If this doesn't benefit me, I don't have reason to talk. The courts already have my side of the story. I went to trial, I was found innocent of all charges. I understand it is your job. Thanks." As of right now, no one is in prison for pulling the trigger on the night that Eric Morrow was killed. You know, all I know is that we're all gonna die one day and none of this shit's gonna matter. And we're all gonna be standing up in front of God and we're gonna have to explain for what we did in life. If there is a God and there's a lot of fucking people in trouble, that's all I got to say. Next time on Motive, life comes down, you know, it's a super high and then it wears off and then you're still a damaged 13 year old that lost this whole life and doesn't know how to cope. We try to talk to them and say, "Teacher, you could do anything in this world you want. Move anywhere you want." I told them to get out of Chicago. We begged him to get out of Chicago. One is nice to have, one is really nice to have, makes a lot of problems go away, but it also creates a lot of problems. If you want to support this podcast, please leave us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, it really helps. Motive is a production of WBEZ Chicago based on original reporting from the Chicago Sun Times. I'm Frank Maine. The producer is Colin McNulty, the executive producer is Kevin Dawson, our engineer is Shelley Stephens, special thanks to listeners whose financial support of WBEZ made this podcast possible.