T.I. & Jazze Pha: 25 Years of Hits, Hustle & Southern Hip-Hop History

This is Expeditionally, I Am Till T.I.A. Uh-huh, now the following experience is not a test, the conversations and stories expressed on this podcast are meant to be an expression of purpose and truth. This show, properly entitled Expeditionally, is a free exchange of ideas and opinions, no judgment, no preconceived beliefs, no fear. You're encouraged to share your thoughts and ask any question as long as it's done with respect. And ask through true love and respect for others that we would change the world and speak truth to power, once you're at a time. Now without further ado, this is Expeditionally, I'm Till T.I.A.A. Hey, what's happening, man? Welcome to Expeditionally, I'm your host, Till Perry. Now today, man, we have a very special gift, man, you know what I mean? A true partner, man, one of my musical mentors, someone who really needs no introduction, if you know anything about the sound of the sound. If you dig it on saying, he's a Grammy-nominated producer, songwriter, artist, and one of the architects behind some of the biggest records and biggest artists to come out to sound. His work has earned him major industry recognition, including Grammy-nomination, multiple award-winning records. We got Sierra's goodies. We got E-40 on the list, Snoop Dogg, C-Lo green, ludicrous outcat, yours truly, cash money. You know what I mean? So many more, man, I'm talking about he has been in the room with some serious history with being made. But tonight, man, we're going to go beyond the hits in the accolade. I want to talk to the man behind the music, the partner that I know I want to introduce him to y'all. The stories, the relationships, the sacrifices, the wins, the eels, and the moments that shape the person behind the producer. This is somebody I've known, worked with, and been able to call a friend for over 25 years, man. We've shed a lot of history. He's been making hits, collecting plaques, and helping shape the culture for decades. Please welcome my brother, the legendary Jazz and Fizzle. What's happening, man? Oh, boy, that was nice, man. That was nice right there. What's happening? It's so eloquently spoken as you, you know. Hey, man. What's happening with you? Oh, man, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful day outside, man. It is. A beautiful day in the air. You know what I'm saying? Been raining, like a damn rain forest around here. That's real? That's a good day though. It's been, man, the sun and the night since I've been here. You've probably been in, for real, somewhere where, you look a little bronzy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You probably, somewhere where it's the most sun, a different sun. The golf course being good. Yeah, hello. Yeah. So tell us about, tell us about your, your, your beginning in music, which is pretty much from birth, correct? Yeah. A lot of people don't know it, man, but you know, your pops, Jane Alexander was the founder member of the Barcaes. Barcaes. And played like, uh, uh, when, when, when, when you hear that, uh, nah, nah, nah, that kind of, yeah, and Jay Z, uh, got to, got to, not, that's my daddy. Oh, okay. Also, when you hear, when you hear, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, boom. Okay. You know, chef, yeah, here, son of chef, all of that, you know, he was a very big on session playing for everybody in stacks. Okay. The Barcaes was kind of like the, the house band and stacks. So they played behind everybody from Rufus Thomas, uh, David Porter and all of those guys. Yeah. Some of the greatest writers of all time. Yeah. Definitely, man. Yeah. I mean, um, that, that, that kind of usher you into into the music industry. Absolutely. Absolutely. Being around it. I mean, you know, just a, you know, if pops was like, well, my mom and daddy separated that, you know, when I was four years old. Right. So mom, she had people in, on the west coast, and was in the music as well. And so she had some, some, uh, some action on the west. And my grandmother lived on the west in California. Right. Oh, so that's where you get, uh, you know, that, the, the, you have an older vernacular. You have a little wayco. It's a wayco vibe to a lot of your shit. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where you get that from. Right. Because I lived in Inglewood. You know, I'm saying, so, uh, writer, get four minutes from the form. You know, I mean, as a baby. So I was right there. And my mom was also in the music business and saying background with people like the gap band DJ Rogers. That's my mom singing on, on that record, when you hear, uh, that common, the common record that, uh, uh, sorry. Okay. That, uh, that, you know, I don't fuck with you. That, uh, okay. Yeah. I'm sitting in the background with DJ Rogers. Okay. So, you know, the alkalines, it's all over the place. So all of that being said, so you couldn't have did nothing else but music. Come on. Yeah. What was your, what was the first thing you think that your, your, your father or your mother taught you a bad music? You know what? I think it was being the fly on the wall that did it, that did it mostly because I was there. So you're there from what you saw? Yeah. They knew from just right car rides and everything that sounds I make with my mouth, where now the sounds that I make on beats. Okay. Well, similar. They were evolving from there. Right. Um, so them just knowing how inclined I was musically and intuitive I was to the music, you know, they were like, we're going to just have them around it. So how did they nurture that gift? Because you know, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of parents, they, they'll see that, you know, a child has a talent, but standing on a push, you know, the, the structure of the system. Yeah. I was more on the, on the side of kind of showing me kind of like the characteristics of the game. Like, like, let's do right here. He don't spend all his money. Right there. He going, you know what I mean? And my pop was a leader. So me following him, you know, I was, you know, able to lead gang. Absolutely. Just being right there. You know, and really seeing a lot of things, what to and what not to do. Now, a lot of the fundamentals came from other guys that were around the game. Right. And I began to kind of blaze my own trail. Did you ever want to be anything else? No, never. You never had another dream. For real. I mean, nothing, nothing worth, you know what I mean method. Uh-uh. I was a rougher before. You was a rougher man. Me too. Why are you? Yeah. What? Did you like? I did the role, the role tar, tar, tar, tar and the touch with you on the West Coast. So we did. We did house in the town, you know, what y'all see on top of Taco Bell? Yeah, yeah, Taco Bell ain't got this shit in there. Yeah, you too. Yeah. I mean, you can't worry about them. Them fans is, uh, them fans is a kind of clean house. Yes, yes, like clay. Yeah, it's clean. I'm paying this person. Yeah, that's all. Yeah. So, um, I would. I think those are like those like like lifetime roofs. Yeah. Like when you put them on for his own. Yeah, it was very. You know, the neighborhoods were very rich, you know, I'm saying, you know, I mean, I never done a residential roof. Really? Yeah, we used to do like Wal-Mart's shit like that. That was them big accounts for you, for your guys. Wherever, uh, wherever, you know them, when them hurricanes and tornadoes and shit, you know, say, we, you know, running the town and my mama, uh, her old boyfriend, her name was slim. And that what he used to do, he used to go chase down tragedies and go, you know, saying, they got the rebuild. He got me up there probably back about three full times. About three full times. I didn't work. I don't work on the roof long at all. Actually, I got a phone call. I was really on the roof. Yeah, we didn't have a cell phone back then. It was, you know, my former name by the name of Prince Freeman. Okay. It was like my guy. He lived in my building. Right. And, um, he, he, he, he hit me up and said, man, your pops on the phone. He say he need to talk to you. So I go down and I talk to him on the phone. And he says, Hey, man, you say you want to do music? I got a guy by the name of Terry Stark. He's a wreck. He's a mega jam records. He got a little company called mega jam records and Memphis. So calling me back to Memphis. I'm in California. Okay. So they calling me back to Memphis. I'm a 17 years old. I just graduated. Okay. You know, I graduated a year early. I graduated a year early because I was in Cali with my mom. And my mom, you know, me and my brother was just acting bad. You know, I'm saying, my brother was heavy into the, to the, to the, uh, to the gang thing. You know, I'm saying, and, um, he, you know, he had me around some time. And then I haven't been around. Y'all wouldn't even know hustling type. Yeah. But it was just so easy. It was a crack error. So I'm around there. Like seeing everybody with the new feelers. And, you know what I mean? So I'm gonna get me a little, you know, yeah. Yeah. So my boy was telling me how easy will you stand over here? You just hand it out. Yeah. That what they say it for to go to jail. Right. And I got. I get to the ribos. It's a ribos. You know, in the town. I didn't get that far. I just got to make a congratulations. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't make it to the camp. But I didn't get called in school. They, they, they called me. Yeah. Damn. And some little bit and a lot of money. You know, I was around the campus. I was just flashing. He like, man, I think he's, you know, so. So, you know, good thing it happened. Cause, you know, everybody, as soon as I got out of the school just ended up just going all kind of which way is dead and jailing locked up and all kind of shit. But, but, um, so, mom was like, I can't do no with these boys. I need James. I need you to kick in. Yeah. So send me back to Memphis. So when I went to school, I was 16 and I was turning 17, I believe. And I went mute because I was just pissed off about being in Memphis. What you mean by mute? I wasn't speaking. Wait a minute. You tell me there's a period of your life where you refuse to talk. You have a small period where they started talking about school. When they were talking about putting me in class, so you would talk to my brother for me. I would talk to my brother. But I wouldn't talk to my daddy. I wouldn't talk to them. I don't let you go through with this. Man, it was kind of new to my papa because he had been away for me so long. He wasn't really at that point where he just, you know what I mean? Because it was kind of like, you know, like, what's wrong with him. How long did this go on? It wasn't that long. It was during, it was right when we were about to register a week or most. Register for school because my plan was okay. They didn't, when they were getting the slow play. Listen, when they were looking at the transcript, no, no, no, no, no, no. When they were looking at the transcripts, they didn't, they, I had went to so many, bro. I went to 13 different schools because my mom was always over here over there over here. She doing something with Natalie Coz. She doing something with Irwin and Fire, and then when all of them, she was a background singer guru. Right. So we had to go to school wherever, you know, wherever was that, you know, it was in its own. So the credits were all over the place, so you can really tell what grade I was in. So I told my brother to tell him that I'm in the 12th grade, so they put me in the 12th grade. Wow. Man, it's funny how shit you do work back then. Right. I put me in the 12th grade. Just straight up. Because I had a plan. I said, look, I read the 12th grade, I graduate and I'm going back to California. And that's what I did. Yeah. And you went from now to the Tilla album. Well, before the Tilla album, I had a group, I had a group called the Falk of Hollywood. You know what, man. I see you. That's what KP saw. I seen you dancing with a box. Yeah. I never knew. I never knew. Before that I was trying to escape it. Yeah, man. I was trying to go there. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Hey man, you're a skinny female, man, yeah, yeah. Slim fans up, thin, thin, thin, thin, yeah. And then, oh, fuck 'em, man, yeah. Everybody ain't seen that, I'ma make sure I find it, pull it up, and she ain't gonna do it. - Man, T-Pain, T-Pain made the thing a little viral. He said, "Aw, you know, he's a, yeah, now I got you now." I was like, "Wait, what, what you got?" Oh, oh, just wait, did you get, have you been on Twitter? You know, have you been on Twitter? Are you gonna love it? - Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but this one, that's-- - That's how long you've been, that's how long you've been kicking yourself. - Failing was the name, that's my first name, and I was like, my artist name was Failing. - Your artist name was Failing. Now, Failing, you was named Failing in honor of Failing Jones, right? - Failing, yeah, Failing Jones. - The Barcai's member who, he passed in, and life was taken in the plane crash, that also claimed the life of Oldies Red. - Yes. - Yeah. - And you was named after him. - Failing Jones. - Right on. And so, your first rap name was Failing. - Yes, sir. - So you was a rapper, I was singing. - I was singing that rapper. - You were singing that rapper, yeah? - Okay, okay, what year was this? - '92. - '92. - Yeah. - Okay, cool. So you was on some-- - I was over there on "The Literacy." - You was on some father, MC. - A little bit, you know what I'm saying. - I was more conscious. - Okay. - I was a little more conscious, yeah. - You know what I'm saying? I was around the black medallions and all that. - Okay, yeah. - Yeah, but it was like in between. It was like, you know, the polka dots and all of that, you know what I mean? - Okay, I thought it was, I would think it'd day in a day. Like, you know what I'm saying? - Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it. So it goes from that to, so when that, when that, how old were you when you signed your first record deal? - 18. - You were 18 years old. - The very next year? - Signed your first record deal. And who was like in charge of making sure that you kept your business in order? - At first, it was my pop. - Okay. - You know, of course, 'cause he's the only person that I really knew that was hands-on with some music business type vibes. You know, and then we start bumper heads, you know, when it came to this. - When he wanted to tell you the right thing to do. - I ain't gonna say all that. - Okay. - It was the money man. - It was the money. - It was the money, okay. - Yeah, man, damn. - Yeah, you know, really happens. - Yeah, happens, happens. You know? - So after that, so you came into a game that you've been introduced to by your pops and your moms and you have an opportunity to actually exist in this game and the only person that you know to go to your pops supposed to be leading, guiding and directing you. But you fall out with him by some paper. - Yeah. - And you're still in the game. So now where you go, who you go to then? - I had it as a young lady. Her name was Carolyn Miller. She had a rest in peace, Carolyn. She passed away a few years ago. But she had a company called Soft Touch. - Okay. - And I met these guys. They was dancing with Candy Man. You remember Candy Man? - I do remember Candy Man. - Candy Man. - Ooh, I love this. - Whatever. - Yeah, I remember that. - He had the record. - That's early night. - Yeah, man. So we actually lived. They actually lived on the same street as my pop live. And I was living with my pops. So me and my pops, you know, we fell out. - After you fell out, you were still living with her. - No, I moved out the house and moved in with them. So we had a apartment together, we had three bedrooms. Three of us had a three bedroom. So we was just off the chain. They was like, you know-- - They were Memphis. - Yeah, they had the curls, you know what I'm saying? Back with the fade on the side, you know. - Like-- - They had wrapped like, like, they were ruffin' them. Like, yeah, it was, you know, meant real Memphis playles. So we were called the Funkaholics. Also with my boy, Slice T, who was a producer as well. - Okay. - So we did the Funkaholics. We started a group called the Funkaholics. - Okay. - And that's who KPS saw us out on the road. I had seen KP, I had seen Rico Wade recipes. Rico Wade and all of them, man. And all of them out on the road. And I was like, I talked to Ty Day. Ty Day was always around Memphis. He was like, man, I know you love Atlanta. You know, 'cause my daddy's to take me to the Jack the Rapper. And he also had a girlfriend and Atlanta at the time. - Okay. And I loved to hang out with them and her kids. And I was like, man, I love Atlanta. Every time I go to Atlanta, I just feel a certain kind of way. So I talked to Ty Day. He was like, man, I ain't no money. I was, you know, just love something to make it, make it. But, and I was never working. By the way, I was just always-- - Well, he was a professional artist. - Yeah, but I was hustling. But I wasn't successful, though. - That's a big deal. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's a big deal. - That let money be gone. - It does. - We're gone. - They have a tendency to get the fuck on. - Oh, boy. 'Cause when you get it, boy, you want to get everything you said you were going to get. - Yeah, man. And it be gone. - So tell me, so how did the Funkaholics transition into, you know, you working with, you know, Paul G and everybody else on the next thing. - So what happened was, like when I was saying, I was talking to Todd Day, and Todd Day was like, man, you love Memphis, I'm like, man, what you need? I was like, man, you give me a cup of juice. I'm like, man, he gave me like, I think 13, 14,000. I mean, the 9,000 honey. - Oh, shit. (laughs) - 100. - Oh, shit. - Between four, grown four, you know what I'm saying? To go get a hotel, dry that line up, we was at the Castle Gate. The Castle Gate was right there with an old Walmart that closed right there. It was literally right there, the one that closed. - Oh, I know what you're talking about. - On How Meal. - Oh, okay. - Right there with a Wayfair, isn't it? - Yeah. - There was a old hotel called the Castle Gate. And we were there, and we were there for a while, and we was running out of money, we was down to the last. And my manager Carolyn, she goes, I know MCBree. I said, you know MCBree. I'll take me to MCBree right now. So he was at Kayla Studios over there off of Marietta Street. I don't know if they, I know it's not still open, but it was right over there. - Down the street from the back of the town. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - So we go to Kayla, and him and Hurrah, DJ Hurrah, was in there doing a song called, you know, What's the definition of a real MC? So he and the Booth, I'm seeing, that's my first time really seeing an artist and on the mic just like off the top of the dome. Like doing a record. - Right. - I'm like, wait, he doing it, record like that? - Right. - Oh, like, okay. So he comes out to Booth, he say, yeah, yeah. Carolina tell me that you got beats. I was like, yeah, yeah, I got beats. So Bree was like, play one, you know what I'm saying? I played one, he said, you made that, I was like, yeah. I said, play the next one. I'm on a dad machine. So I go, I'm going to play the next one. He said, what you want for that? (laughing) So Carolyn's standing right there, I just look at her. Then he played another one. He said, now I need that one right now. I need that one right now. What about 5,000? I looked at her, I'm like, so he like, he said, so what y'all going to do? What y'all doing from here? Like, what y'all, what y'all staying? Like, do we look at each other? Like, 'cause we about to be on the street. We about to literally go back to Memphis 'cause we ain't got no money. - Yeah. - He looked at his boy named Jabri, rapper. He said, yeah. He pulled his Jeep keys out. He said, "Jabrie, go over there and that room across from my room, clean it out and get it ready for them too." So they could stay in that room right there in his house, my dude, such a big room house. His wife is pregnant with a new baby. I don't think she might have just came. - How old y'all is that, 18, 19? - Who me? - You, yeah, you. - When I came to Bri? - Yeah. - About 20, 22, 22. - 23. - So like that, yeah, so. So, I moved in, I moved in with Bri here. - Did you get the $5,000? - Yeah, of course. - Okay, now we got the bread. - Okay, cool. - We was on it popping, man. - So you got the $5,000? - Yeah, I'm paying you ain't got the pain over it. - No way, God damn. - No way. - You're the big lead. - And that boy Bri cooked too. - Yeah, okay. - Okay. - Yeah, that boy Bri was cooked, man, he was, and so he had everybody would come see. She hooked it up, too short, met the man, red man, key sweat, Eric Sermon. - Yeah, so it put you in the mix. - Yes, put me in the mix. - Yeah. - Key man, Eric Sermon. - Okay. - Eric Sermon came, and Eric's low-yield chassis. Yo, man. I don't think a lot of motherfuckers really, really give the amount of credit and significance to the place, but I guess the magnum of culture that existed when Eric Sermon, Eric Sermon Realms shot were right there on P-Stree. Bro, that Realms shot that Eric Sermon had on P-Stree, bro. You can ride by there and see anybody at any time. - Yeah, man. - Ooh, I mean, ooh, will you say that, boy? I got to you, I was like, boy, I met some real, real, dope cats down there. - I was like, I broke bad look, you know what I'm saying? I would ride by and see, you know what I'm saying? - Yeah. - That's such a thing. - Right. - That Realms shot, man. - Yeah. - And shit was really like, you know, that shit was like a cornerstone. It was a cornerstone to the culture. - Yeah. - Like, it's kind of like what a North and the South America went, motherfucker from New York will come down. That's kind of like one of the first stops they were made. - Yes, sir. - Yeah, I mean. - R.P. Field Taylor too, man, Philip, man. Big G's brother. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, man, that was my brother. Those were my brothers. - Right on, man. - Shit, man, okay, so now you got connected, you in the game, tell me, what did you, what did you, a piece of advice that you got from your father that you didn't appreciate? - Mm-hmm. - So you got in the game by yourself and kind of saw what he would tell me. - All these things. - Connected you doing it. - All these neat roads you're hanging around ain't your friends. - Okay. - Connected you in, you're doing it by yourself. You ain't got no safety net. You on your own. I'm sure some of the things that y'all talked about helped to be reoccurring in your life at that time. - I didn't want them to tell me to do my taxes 'cause I thought all the money was mine. (laughing) - Yeah, that a dude. - That's a real awakening world. - Yeah, that a dude. - When you get to the garnishment level. Ooh, wait. - Damn. Oh, damn. - I'm glad I came up out of that. - Yeah, man, pretty good. - Yeah, yeah, man. - So how you get to Tony Draper Nill? - Tony Draper. - 'Cause that would not hurt about you. - I got the phone call. - Uh-huh. - I'm in Atlanta. So Carolyn, my manager, she was something else. She was something else. She was, she was, she was a swindler. (laughing) - Well, like a little bit. - Hey, man, something tells me at the time you weren't hard to swindle, man. (laughing) - Anybody follow with a dream, you y'all. - All right. - You ain't got no money, no zero success, yeah. - Right. - Put all the potential. - Yeah, all the potentials. - Everybody, yeah, come here. You know, everybody, come like this. - You just want to see your name on some. - Yeah. - That's what house we rented. - Who? - We rented. We rented, it was around the time, around the Olympics or something like that. I think it was. It was like, oh, there's gonna be a big lick. 'Cause everybody's gonna come and stay here for the Olympics, that's what I'm talking about. So it's a good thing for us to do this. We can rent it out to them, right? So she talked me into renting this house. - By the way, that's every Atlanta nigga playing for every Super Bowl. - And they don't have. - FIFA, never. It's never what they think it's gonna be. - No, 'cause those people ain't open to top like that. They would stay, they it would be 16 of them in the two men. - I'm talking about Brea, it could be a big-ass fight. It could be a goddamn, you know, it could be a Super Bowl. - You ain't a star. - As soon as they announced it, oh shit. Let me go ahead and dead it all up. - And they ain't not doing knock it off. - They not doing that. - It was like, man, I been sitting here 16 hours. (laughing) - Ain't nobody telling everybody. - All the motherfuckers that had that plan, it'd probably be about a thousand, let's go 10,000 motherfuckers that had that plan. Maybe two of them actually. - They wouldn't let you know. - How messed up we are in America, though. About the American dollar, how much, little regard we have for the dollar. - Why you say that? - Because they put theirs together. - They put together. - Oh man, I ain't never seen, walked out of soccer game and see damn near 90 to 95% of the people get on murder. - Yeah, we'll see. - They want nobody in the streets. - Well, okay, so check this out. So I agree with you. I just think that it has less to do with the power of the dollar and more to do with our ability to get along with each other and bring a community under one hand. - Yeah, that's part of it, too. - I think we have a lot more pride and a lot more, you know what I'm saying? Like we feel like we pull to have hours and they get theirs. Which, you know, that's a truth to that. But you could get a lot more done if you share in the bills. - Yeah, but I say that in the light of, we always more concerned about how it looks. - That's true. - But they're more concerned about how we gonna get it done. - Yeah. - How can we get it done? - Yeah. - That's true. - I get that. - All right, so now he, anyway, so you really, who helps? We were in the Bobby and Whitney's house. - Gat damn. (all laughing) - Of all the houses there were there. - Well, hey, with no money, I ain't got no money. - So why did he have to do this? - So I'm making beats, you're okay. So of course, you know, the money coming through her, and then I get my part. And so I'm thinking I'm still getting $75,000. I couldn't find out, I'm getting $15,000. - You get $15,000? - No, $15,000. - Got it, got it. - I'm getting $15,000, but I'm working through her counting in her people. And I'm like, oh, okay, I found out. So you know, you'd be out to dinner somewhere and then say, I'm like, yeah, you know, you have something to talk loud. You're like, yeah, you can get $15,000. You're part of the women, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, okay, I got to store this in my head. Like, come here, let me talk to you for a minute. - Yeah. - Then I went back to her and I ended up firing her. - Damn, but you ain't get the money back though. - You ain't get the money back, they were shaved at the time. - She was so good to me, man. - Okay. - I just kinda, I just, you know. - Yeah, you know what I'm saying, that's right. - You pay for your lesson. - Yeah, you're gonna lose the big game. - Yeah, you know what I'm saying? - You don't pay for your lesson. You're a championship, 'cause you're never, you're like, you're like, you don't remember without the blue note, you're never gonna, you never go play that. Yeah, so basically, Tila called me, Tila called me on the phone. I'm over there, I'm like, you know, I'm fired with a manager. He's like, man, we in Memphis, working on my album, and I'm signing, I'm signing the Swine House. - Okay. - Said, man, I want you to do my album, you're a slice T. I want you to do everything I want you to do. Sliced to do it. - The Swine House at the time was one of the biggest independent record labels that we had seen. It was Dem, Master P. Rappalat, and Cameron. - Well, Master P wasn't, and Master P hadn't couldn't, I mean, it was, it wasn't like, no limit tank as a unit, but P would do, you know what I'm saying. - Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. - So now you leave Atlanta and go back to Memphis. But whatever happened with the records, I didn't move, I just went out there for a minute. You know what I'm saying, I went out there to work with Teema. - Okay. - So I went out there to work with Teema. - But what happened with the records that you did with Breed and all those, you know what I'm saying? The Bobby and Whitney records, you know what I'm saying. - Well, no, we had about moderate success. - What's the biggest record from that period that you can remember? - From that period. - Yeah. - Okay, I don't know. - Did you ever get on one of Breed albums? - I was on most of 'em. - Okay. - I mean, we didn't even have no hits. (laughing) - I mean, the truth is the truth. I mean, I don't know what I'm just saying. - We didn't, but it was important at the time. - We were on a couple of 'em. I only did like two or three albums with 'em. And it wasn't that the records weren't hits. He just, Breed was taking the bread and just really like, like he'd take the promotional money. - Yeah. - And he do's, I'm best with the promotional money. So Breed was just, he wasn't, he didn't have any guidance. - And he wasn't listening to nobody. - He was doing it his way. - He was, yeah, definitely, yeah. - Well, probably anything that we did was too short, which, that came later. - Okay, what's your foot? - After the teelo. - Okay, that deal. - Well, I'm just trying to figure out. - It's good. - It's stuff like Call Me, with Big and a, with, you know, Lil' Kim, with Big, with you, or later. - Yeah, that's later, so that, but that came from Breed too. - Okay, now what about the tees of, when you got, when you went to Teelo's first teelo, so I'll go out with Teelo. We working and we just come up with this record. And I'm going to go to the club. Yeah, show enough. Show enough is the name of the record. Thus the name of my record label later on. Show enough was like, I mean, it's one of them things where it was like, OK, I got to beat. And we listened to the beat. And I'm like, OK, this beat is hard. So we vibe-less on the writing. I'm like, all right, Ben. Let's go to the studio club. They were the peer passion and something like that. So we go to the strip club. And we, you know, we got, we like, well, we want to bring some inspiration on back to the lab. So we get up with you pretty much. Yeah, you feel me? Yeah, you do. So we get everybody back to the studio. So Taylor coming in, but he got a whole 'nother vibe now. He, you know, he's very macaroni-tory now. So he, hey, that boy looked at me and said, hey, beat wasn't even playing. He said, boy, it was molding the clubs, y'all know. Yeah, it is in the club. And he was, I said, boy, what did you say? OK. So they had that game, man. Yeah. And it, you know, we both are in the vibe. I'm like, play the beat. That sound. That's what the nigga would say, too. So he'd be walking the door. Hey, man, I said, near. Play that beat right there. He played it. Who did beat me? [MUMBLING] I said, roll it back. Boom. First thing I said. Holes in the club, so enough. I said, everybody start-- you know, that's when everybody start making drinks, walking around, rolling up. And I was like, up. We got some. We got some negative vibe right there. And that was it. I thought, sent the record to ball and g. They were fixated on another record that he had on the album with the Rundeeam C sample. He said, da, da, da, da, da, da, the rock box sample. OK. So he did something called, I think it was Twisted. And they had heard the beat, and they wanted to get on that, because you know, they were going to DMC fans, where they made this two of them the whole vibe. So they were like, maybe we want to get on that record. I'm like, man, listen. I really need y'all. Add plus I produced the record. So I had to produce the other record. I said, I need y'all to get on this record. So it's kind of like a little political thing behind the scene. But then they end up getting on the record. They was like, I think they were lukewarm on the record. Boy, when that thing hit the street. Yeah. Bro, that record got blew up so fast, and that we had to literally-- I had to literally move to Houston. That's how many shows we had in Houston. And it made me understand why Houston Records got so much money. Man, it takes the biggest of motherfuckers. What? It takes the biggest of motherfuckers, man. You could-- because you can do an album out there, Mix Tape. And once you hit all the cities and all the clubs-- Yeah. --and I noticed that they-- They-- the East Side don't go to the West Side. The West Side don't go to the South Side. And everybody, when you come over, they're like, oh, you must've got a show over here. Every time they see it, they're like, oh, y'all. Nick is territorial. Oh, definitely. But it was very familiar to me, because the West Coast is like that. What you doing over here? You must've got the girl mama. You're a man. You lost. You got your lost. Yeah, so from that era, now you actually getting tasted of the road life, you getting show money and shit like that. So you had always introduced yourself as a producer. Now you were kind of becoming more expected to have a hook with your beat. Side artists? Yeah. So how did you adapt to that expectation? I think it was just over time, man. It was just over time just going. I'm just start going. Yeah. I think the next big splash was Noontime. Yeah. Noontime. But we met, of course. Yeah. You know, over there with Noontime, over there on Walker Street. Is that Walker Street? It was Walker Street. Oh, OK. Yeah, Walker Street. Noontime was over there. That's what we did that-- let me see. Yeah, Luke, we did that over there. And get-- no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We did that over there with a damn man right up there. Off-bank here, bro. Right up there off-bank here, but we'll have a meal split with folks off and go-- Goddamn it-- with a loft set. Yeah, right over there, Mary Outta. I'm positive. Yeah. Where you bust that lift and go the might will still-- I know, we was on the way. King Plow. You know, King Plow-- it is now the King Plow. Yeah. 9.57. Yes. That's where we met. Yeah. But wait a minute. I'm listening. Did we? Yeah. That's what we met. OK. And as far as in the studio, we might have known each other. Right. Why you was stealing that building, but by the time I came, it actually got to turn into work with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was over there. I think we was on the way to a club or something. And we did that record right on the way to the club. We was all gathered up. Everybody had the whole crew was in there. And let me see you get it, Luke. And we did that during a dip. Yeah. I don't know what that was. But then in the studio, let's start getting into it. I was like, oh, shit. Yeah, yeah. But you never know. We had a-- I remember back before, even before then, man. We used to always run into each other and patchwork. Yeah. Absolutely. You was kind of saying one of the first, like, more fuckers who I could call and come and kick it with, that actually would put in that record. Yeah. So I'm talking about producers, actually. I mean, I think that when you had got that, I'm fucking-- you had a mint green jacket. Mint green jacket. Yeah, me too. When you got that, motherfucker, you had gas on your chin. Oh, yeah. It was fun. You was in every club, nigga. It was fun. They opened the doors, you ain't there, motherfucker. You ain't there, me too. Yeah. They were at that red can go. They probably had to return it, John. The fussy, motherfucker. It was somebody-- who had to tell you to return that? Man, shit, man. The streets, those eventually, you know, you know what I'm saying? But you know, but before, nigga-- Hey, man, before nigga getting away, he got enough money to, you know, to afford a watch or a chain or a shit, man, you invest in certain items of clothes and accessories. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, shit, man. I had some shades. I had motherfucking the hat, you know. I didn't know before I had any money out of music. Yeah. And I told myself I wasn't going to go back to the dope. I was making it work for the hustle, for the re-up. Yeah. But now, I wouldn't be selling no dope at this time. You wouldn't, you wouldn't? Oh, OK. By the time I met you, I walked away from the game. Yeah, you started believing in it. I mean, I-- you didn't know that show signs, you know what I mean? That's great, man. You got to follow the sign. So, I-- wait, man, before you could do that, though. What's up? Lap dance, man. What's that? What is that record? Lap dance. That was the first record I heard. Now, you tell 'em about VIP. VIP? Yeah. You say it's something about Lap dance in the song, though. I did, we'll talk about the strip club. OK. Yeah, yeah. I don't know why I feel like Lap dance. But yeah, I remember, yeah, that was-- that was like on my demo. My partner Brit. My partner Brit song, the hook on the-- Was that-- that was Tunk on the beat, wasn't Tunk on the beat? Absolutely. I think Tunk might have played me that song. Because I think, round the time, who was the first person to introduce you? Was it Jason? Could have been Jason. I mean, I feel like when I was up there-- What about you, Jason? And I was probably with Jason. And we met up there. I think that you would actually let me sit in your sessions, though. Oh, yeah, because you were so cool. A lot of people were like, I was like, this name right here. When I heard you rap, when I heard you rap, it's like, I was like, man, never heard nobody that sound like this name. I was like, you were so cool. But I think that the people that didn't mind having me in their sessions allowed me to learn a lot about song structure, about production, about how they incorporate live instrumentation to enhance the sound. You was making beats, too? Yeah, yeah. You had your keyboard. What keyboard was that you was on? The triton. The triton was on the triton. So you see what's in there? No, no, no, no, I had an MP2. I had an MP2. Yeah, you did it didn't you? Yeah, yeah. It was a 2000. It was right after the 60s. Right after the 60s, the 62s. The 62s? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The 62s. I had one of them. All right, and all along John. Yeah, I did. I lost all my goddamn zip drives and everything. And get away from them. Yeah, then I was like, man, fuck this. Mine's still in a box. Yeah, man. You still in the shoe box. You still got it. Got 'em. It's real out of sight. I don't. And you know what you gave me? You gave me a lot of sounds, too. Oh, yeah? Yeah. You gave me you, too. That mean I like you. Yeah, absolutely, you, too. Some people ask for them. They're like, somebody asked for something. Really? For real, ask you for some sound. I got you, though. I like it. Yeah, man. I think when you, too, mellow and Reese for PA. Yeah. I just got like, you know, a collection of sound. Yeah. I mean, mellow and Reese has somebody. Yeah, they have. Incredible. They sound crazy. Yeah. The snare was out of their word. Like, especially mellow, mellow really gave me, like, a few dope sounds. Yeah. And I still remember this day. You outweighed the sound of your own. And I think that your ladies and gentlemen produce a tag in one of the most recognizable. What did that come from? Ladies and gentlemen, you know what? They can't. They can't. Yep. That came from, that's West Coast. It was, that was, you know, like just popping my pee. That's like-- That's oh man, look at oh giving them some news. They can use elbow. Yeah, you know, it's not like mobada Yeah, it's baby. Yeah, it's a baby area. Yeah, I was in the 40, you know, I'm saying e 40. I was a big fan of 40 You know saying so, you know Yeah, so that's what the ladies and gentlemen came from but ladies and gentlemen came from I was watching James Brown on something I was watching Documenter and something like that and I noticed that Jimmy Carson or somebody like that Introduced him was David Letterman. I'm not sure who it was that introduced him right. Yeah, and it was showing an old footage And he introduced him, but he had another person that came out and introduced him You know what I'm saying? He was like ladies and gentlemen It's star-time. He said, you know, there are eight wonders of the world. You know several wonders of the world You about to witness the eighth hmm, so time you know hot mr. You Dave's column, you know, mr. Dada Mike all of that. So there's a James Brown was a bad boy fucking what chain family and I was so interested like what I what I grabbed was ladies and gentlemen And then I was here and then I think right after that in sequence I see Mike Tyson fight and they get ladies and gentlemen Boy, that's so captivating ladies and gentlemen. Yeah, and then I just started singing coming up as everybody. Yeah You know, but it came because I was like Bro, I got to find the tag because like I think the only two people that was tagging records back then like when I first started tag I was like on a big scale was Teddy Riley Yep, yep, okay, you know, I'm saying like a lad, man, but but you knew it was Teddy though Cuz Teddy was everywhere right Teddy was on like probably at one point in time and this is hey They was like in 60 to 70% of all the records that were being released. You know, I'm saying. So Then then you had Later on you had Rodney Rodney Jerkens. Okay. I'm like don't you know, it's in that you he was really stepping Okay, so you know, I was like, you know all those things just all everything else just came with it. Yeah, so now You've done so many records With so many people What would you name is like your Your biggest collaboration Man Sierra one two step. Okay, yeah, okay Now and did you just you discover Sierra then you oh, yes, well, I didn't discover her TA did TA Anthony T. Okay, you know, so cuz I let it do you of course. Yeah, you know, that's that's what was the whole thing You she wanted to get her to you know to the masses, so I was right next door right next door at dark okay, and when it was dark with Dallas Austin Dallas gave me a little cubby hole to work in okay, I had actually left over there at the old noontime and me and noony had kind of Veered off from being noontime and everybody else kind of doing other things and man Well, wait a minute. Wait. We'll talk enough about noontime and the stars. Yeah in the legendary talent that it produced right Noontime for one man is a place where I could always go. Yeah, I didn't have a session and patchwork and you know I got to always pull up a noontime Sit up there in the front with me easy play video game Smoke me where I can move around going jazzy session. See what he had going on Yeah, Brian Micacock being the right also going Going there with Polo in the pollo, you know, it's a polo Motown Um, it was just a bunch of players in the building man, okay, so you got jazzy fey out of there You got polo to done. Yeah, you got cutie cut till out of there You got uh Got john say 10 the bishops, Teddy bishops. Yeah, you know, I mean like Ryan Glover Wranglover, okay, well, yeah, you know, Ryan Glover will own the network television. Yeah, of course Chris Hicks, but they were Chris Hicks as well. Yeah, noony and Terry Terry Okay, who are Terry, which Terry Terry Terry Terry Terry Charles Ross. Okay, got you are the he manages Jason Joshua now Amazing you see what I am man. Everybody doing new time man produced the whole lot of legends man Yeah, a whole lot of legends. Yeah, and I don't think you know people in the music being you know, you know at least us We don't I don't see it being spoken about yeah as much as it should be so shout out the new time noony, maize Me easy. Yeah, Anthony Big love of Dan Everybody the whole game and appreciate all them appreciate y'all for you know to have received me so early in My journey come on man had to do it. Yeah, I so so you went from new town you say you were working there doing it at dark Yes, sir. We were working that we were already working at dark and noony was like Pro you got I'm like I think I was going through a thing where I was like having like issues getting placements, right? And everybody was like starting to get in their own bag where everybody's having producers They over here they a con got his old crew, you know other people had their own crews. So He said man, you gotta get your artists So TA got got this girl group. You're gonna bring them by so brought up throughout the girl group Forgot to know the girl group Anyway, Sierra was a member of the girl group. Mm-hmm. So she was she was like He was like tell me which one you think is a superstar. I was like her right there That's the one on the left you know when in the middle day. I always think it's to be on say or whatever Yeah, that happened to be the danger that was over the group get it You know what I'm saying? But she was the star CC was the star and she was just dead. She is just thing about her I was like she the one. He's like that's that's what I thought Cuz TA got that eye and he was like man He's like I'm like I think she's dope. I'm gonna. Let's see. You know I'm saying so she hung out with me the next three four days Mm-hmm in the studio we cutting that all she would do is like when I play music she just dance and she was so young I was like look you can't be dancing like that round. He grown man Cuz she was then you know girls. Yeah, they adapt to what they adapt to they dance. She was dancing so sexy Like man look you need to get over here sit down somewhere and let's do some music come on You know what I'm saying? So we got in we got in this thing. Yeah, you used to could do that Well, you used to could do that. Yeah, like a man a man quit. I'm doing all that shit man right? I know they never do but the but I'm saying there's no society would say man We're trying to quit trying to control her let her let her be free and my own expression And I man now you know understand you don't see what I'm seeing. Right. Yeah, I mean sit your mother. No, right Right, I come my eyes over there and the boys you don't say they like me. Hey boy. Yeah, you supposed to be looking like that Down you know we're so so we we over there. We working we over there working I think Angie stone was I was literally like working on Angie stone simultaneously in another room Cuz dark so you know I'm saying she didn't book out that side So I think right in the beginning she was over there. So first we we started on some records first four records That we did We're literally on the album. They just such a such a chemistry that we had and we was like, you know We got to a point where we like okay, we let these records. We gonna go to we gonna go to let's go to Miami Let's go to Miami and work. We want to hit factory criteria. Mm-hmm. So we went there We go through the gates. I see this These you know how they got the little name tags where were you park? Mm-hmm. Where everybody park? So they got about three name tags and I have Lil Wayne or so I like that one of them said missy Elliot. Mm-hmm. I said oh So we over here on the side, so I'm always look I'm looking you know I'm what I go to studio. I'm in the studio, but I know the missus when I was huge fan of missy Right, so I'm looking out looking out boom. I see the gate opening and it's a it's a Ninja Turtle Green Lambo pulling in. I said that's how I wait right here. I said that's how I wait right here Listen, I said that's her missy been one of our fucker who have every every call you can name. I look the season said come on That said missy pulling up come on. Come on. We gonna we gonna get a record for missy Boom so missy meta, you know, I think at that time we had goodies out. Okay, we had dropped goodies Well, we didn't have a second single. Mm-hmm, you know, and um, so We we oh fun fact My oh good is y'all here. We both have we have a version No, thank you. Y'all asked me to get on it and I did yeah, you know, I'm saying so I did a verse for my goodies before it In that came out, so I'm pulled to be on there very yeah, what happened was I went to jail It wasn't your phone. I would of course. I thought around man. I got locked up man and the time when it came time to shoot the video I wasn't around the shoot the video So y'all put the homie on the p the Pablo Who's also having a huge huge moment at the time? Yeah, I put the homie on there and you know the record became I set there and watch that shit Man, I was tear. I was sick in my fucking stomach. Oh my god I'm saying knowing how big that motherfucker record would go. I knew it when I heard it though. - Oh man, to this day, they still play that version when I walk in and do it a lot of time. - For real. - Hell yeah. - Oh yeah, that's one of them ones. - Yeah, yeah it is. - I played with, I performed that joint. - Yeah, yeah man. - So you met Miss Ellie then we had, so Missy's first thought was a Sierra. - They hit it off immediately. Like, so you know, Missy, you know, she liked to play. They hang out, they were talking, and then they went to the studio and I was like, go and go on with them. - Right. - So I'm thinking I'm gonna get a record right then. - Right. - Then get a record, you know what I'm saying? So that's cool. So we were making a relationship. We made a connection, get back to Atlanta. I hit Missy up, you know. She was like, "Hey, I'm working, I'm working, I'm working." She hit me out the blue one day and said, "Simmie some music." And I was like, she said, "I got up tempo stuff, all up tempo." Everything was one 25, one 30 BPMs up tempo 'cause I needed, I said, "I just wanna stay on the dance floor." - Yeah, exactly. So I sent these records. She sent me back a CD, right? And it said, "When I loaded it up, "I had to do Bentley." You know what I'm saying? So, you know, you had to do that. - I had to do that, I had to do that, man. - I did, because I didn't know how to get the CD out. - You know, it was in the mirror, it was in the glove box. - Yeah. - The mirror had the little, you know. - So it was in the glove box. - So I didn't know how to get it out. That's another part to it. So I put it in there and said, "24 minutes." I'm like, "Why is the record, why is the record 24 minutes?" So I loaded it up, loaded it up. It starts off, "No shit, jazzy fight, sir." She to me mixed tape of all of the records that I sent her. I said, "I'm like five beats." The second one was one two step. - Okay. - One two step was not exactly the one two step that you hear today. It was like one two step, right, and left. The hook. Now I was like, "The rest of it was as he is." This beat is automatic, it's the sonic. Now, the fucking first, when you say my name, you know, it's over. Jazzy made it. Oh, oh, oh, no, we can make this a hit. This is the one. Don't tell me this is the one. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, and tell me this is it. I like this one. Look, all right, now you know we made it. (laughing) I like this one. Look, I played it for a right. She said, "Yeah, but the hook, I like it exactly." I know that. So listen to this record right here. So I played her soul sonic force. You know, so it gets to that part where the rocker don't stop it. They rock it, don't stop taking it to how you're working. You know, just out there got an idea with a doppler. So she walks in, she made a call, and I'm starting to see a dancer showin' up 'cause she always wanna, you know, A.B. with the dancers, and can y'all dance to this? Can you y'all do this, can you y'all do this? Now, let's wait a minute. Let's take some time to point out the juxtaposition of Memphis, Tila, strippers for the vibe. For the vibes. Missy, Atlanta, and she came with the actual dancer dancers, like the motherfuckers who gonna be on stage. Oh, yeah. Okay, I've never seen that one now. That's a new one. Yeah. So she came with the motherfuckers who actually go Corey who gonna have to dance to this sheet for real. Yeah. I ain't seen that one. That's a cool one. So they, they pullin' up, you know what I'm sayin'? The jam, and, you know, she was like, I got an idea. I said, yeah, it kind of need to be simple. Kind of borderline corny a little bit. I ain't never heard of anybody say that. Not corny, but cheesy, like-- I just ain't never heard. I mean, you know what I'm sayin'? 'Cause what you said, when I hear everybody want to step-- That shit don't even sound corny, or-- No, no, no. That shit just sound, but it's simple enough. But she said, she said like this. She went, rock it, don't stop it. Everybody get on the floor. Genius. I was like, ooh. Genius. She got that from rock it, don't stop it. Yeah. So that's African-Rambada. Long live African-Rambada. He, I had a callin'. I called my pop, I said pop. Don't you call African-Rambada number, 'cause I mean, I got to talk to him about this record, you know what I'm sayin'? 'Cause I'm using, like, the sound, the whole, everything of one to step is African-Rambada. Right. So I call African-Rambada. And he like, yeah, I'm blood, you can use the record. You know James, he called me, you know James? Look, my people call you. You gonna show up on him? I was like, yeah, sir. It's like bed. I was like, what's your name? He's like, oh, I already sent it to you, lawyer. He said, they sent me, send it to me. I was like, what? He said, yeah, I already had the paperwork. I just wanted to see if he's gonna call me. I said, what if I hadn't called you? He said, I'd have charged you. Bro, he gave me that record for 40. Relationships go a long way, man. Hey, man. And it's the biggest record in my career. Damn, that's hard. Ooh. That's hard. You know what, another period that I wanna go to, which I feel like was a significant period, 'cause you got a lot of dope air records that really, you know, we've still at the test of time on here. The cash money period. So I remember seeing you, when you just told me, hey, man, working with Cam running now, you know what I'm saying? That's what I'm saying. Right in the back, in the big room, in past work. Yeah, the whole thing. The whole thing? The whole thing? Well, I think I had a session on the small side. Well, that was because-- Oh, okay. Excuse me. That was the rust. Okay, you tell me. Excuse me. Everybody can't do what you do. No, no, no, no. Let's see. We ain't gonna cross over that, because-- What's your name? We really rocked with you, don't? Man, I ain't-- Happily. That was real always. Well, I was like, oh, no, Tim, coming in. Yeah, it was-- If you-- If we were-- When we were in that phase of what cash money, nobody was in that studio session. And let's me, many fresh, or babysitter, they could come. Right. Period. Right. Because Curtis was tired of telling people, no. And he was-- You know, he was getting hate, man. Yeah. So he was like, yo, it's on him. Excuse me. Yeah, I like the building down, man. We like it, man. Yeah, about a year and a half. About a year and a half. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah, so you told me, like, man, man, I got to do-- I'm gonna do a 100 records for Cam, man. I said, what? Yes. A 100 records. It was actually a 50 song deal. But I ended up doing more than that. Yeah. He knew what he was doing. Yeah, that's all it. But you know, it was crazy how the deal was, right? He was like-- Shout out to Greg Streep, by the way. Greg Streep is the one who brought cash money to me. He literally brought cash money right over there to the King Plough. Right. And put them right there in my presence. So now tell me about, you know, how you wrap your mind around the opportunity of doing 50 or 100 records in the same place. One record at a time. But it's so-- It's so-- It so doesn't feel like that. It doesn't feel like one place because it's-- You got all these cash. You do have a lot. - Right, really at the time. - Right, right. - Gives us in and out. Wayne. - Yeah. - Matt 10. - Yeah, Matt 10 came through a little bit. At the end towards the end, fresh was always there. - It was really big time was in Wayne. - Yeah. - They were the biggest focus, right? - Yeah, it was. - Yeah. - What were your first record you did during the cash money era? - Hmm, first one. Might've been the big timeers. - Okay, which one? - Might've been the big timeers. - I worked on a lot of that stuff, Matt came. It's hard to remember which record it was. - You remember the hits? - Which were, I mean, 'cause I mean, Go DJ is definitely-- - That's fresh. - That's fresh. But what was the other one that you did? The one, Matt. - Pretty late to go on, do that dance. - Nice. - And some way more flat. - That's Wayne. - That's Wayne. - I know that's Wayne. - That's Wayne. - But what's the name of the song? - The song was called, okay. The song was called "Earthquake" in the beginning. - Okay. - It was called "Earthquake," but they named it "Shine" later on. - Okay. - None of us ever labeled the record "Shine." It was just called "Earthquake" because of the simple fact that baby and them was seeing the truck listing to the label so they could get the money. We were still working on the album. - Okay. - So when the truck listing, when the album came out, "Shine" was in the place of "Earthquake." "Earthquake" was a whole 'nother song. - Okay. - But that's a fun fact right away. 'Cause "Earthquake" was never the name of the song. - The name of the song is "Shine." - Yeah. - I don't know if we're talking about the same. - Yeah. ♪ I'm way more fly than you ♪ - That's right. ♪ Take your dime from you ♪ - Yeah. Now she won't spend down there with me. ♪ All night with you ♪ - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - That was an incredible, that was an incredible collaboration, man. - Yeah, man. So I was pulling up. I had just, here I go again, I was happy. I had the new 745, you know what I'm saying? I got some cash money, you know what I'm saying? Cash money, man. - That's right. - Yeah, that's all right. So I pulled up that gate, you know what I'm saying? Open up the gate, open up the gate. So I pulled in, so you know what a feeling it is to pull up on the cash money boy, the car kings. It's something that they don't have. - So what was that? - It was the 745, remember the white one I had? - I had a white one, a white 745, you know? So I pulled up, I was like the first one out the crew, the heavy. So I pulled up in the back. And I'm playing, uh, I, I'm so in love with you, play out green. I'm playing out green. And Wayne and, and fresh was standing outside. Okay. There was standing in the back. That back door back there. Right. And he said, nigga, what the way you sheen, he said the way you sheen pass. I seen you when you came pass and then you sheen in the past, you know, Wayne, what is the word? I said, he said, I seen you, nigga, I came out to the back and see that joint. He said, nigga, we need to do that song right now. That's the feeling. He said, that's the feeling. I was like, man, fresh wasn't there. Cook that thing up, boy. So that's you. So you and fresh have actually worked on the same beat. Yeah, of course. Okay. Yeah. That's all it. That's fresh on the beat on that beat. Okay. I wrote this record. Okay. Got it. Me and Wayne actually. Okay. Shit, man. That time period, it's so many of them, them records that we listen to now. I can listen to it. Like, okay, that's adjacent. Yeah. Pretty letting go and do that dance. Man, how did you develop that sound? Well, you think that sound came from that sound comes from man. Just a comment. Man, if you really listen to show enough, right? It sounds like the bar case. It really sounds like a derivative, okay, if you will, other bar case, meaning the phone. And, you know, I'm saying the soul, there's a record that literally has some of those licks in it. I don't say which one because I don't want them to come to the record point. Do it. Do it. Right. Man, one thing I was thinking about, right? Uh-huh. I was thinking about, I never asked you how you felt when we did, let's get away. Right. Uh-huh. We had two versions. Mm-hmm. Nothing else that we hear. Okay. So, the first time I heard the new version, well, well, which was the original version that we couldn't get clear. Right. The first time I heard that it was back to that version, was at the video shoot when I pressed play. Yeah. Do you remember how I was like, man, I don't really remember. So the first, so we, so we, so we, we had an interpolation that we couldn't clear. So we changed. Right. Right. Right. But then what I think happened was at that period of time, I was completely independent. Yeah. Because you know, I went through that, that, that period, well, I was a free agent, leaving the face. Mm-hmm. And so I had 24 working and I was really just a free agent during my own thing. So at the time when I was doing my own thing, yeah, I did not have the means of cleaning that record. Then, you know what I'm saying? I did my joint venture with the landed records and I, you know, had access to a broader machine which made cleaning that record, you know, a lot more easier than ever being before. So that's, that's how that happened. So I, it felt nice. I didn't feel really nothing. I just didn't know that you didn't know. Oh, well, I didn't know that it was back to that version because we had made our way around. Okay. You and me. And people loved that version. So some telling me that you like the other, you had, you had, it wasn't about that. It wasn't about that. Okay. People loved that version and we owned it. Ah, so you said. We did not give up in the old shit. Ah, yeah. You feel me? Yeah. But that's the older me, like, I felt like that back then. I was like, you know, why is we giving this to Rita Franklin? Yeah. I don't live with Rita Franklin. Yeah. You know, man. You know what, now that I'm thinking about it, get what? Rita Franklin, I believe, was an Atlantic artist. Yeah. If I'm not. And it was so, yeah. So they probably wouldn't even happen right now. Yeah. They wanted it. Well, I was so excited to judge you. Right. You know, they said shoot the video on my hair, man. I said, let's go. Yeah, I was like, and then I was like, I was, I was, I think I was talking to Jason. I was like, 'cause I didn't want you to, 'cause I don't know how it is, you know, being on set and, you know, you got stuff you're thinking about. I'm talking to Jason. Like, man, why did you go back to that version? Man, take my money. Man, look, now the bigger thing, the biggest thing, which is a great fact to point out, and I, I would have appreciated, but it was too late by then. Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't going to find that fight. It was too late by then. But what was a bigger, a bigger, I guess, a darker cloud over my head was this was my last video that I was going to be, I was going to be able to shoot before I had to go turn myself in again. I'm going to jail. I'm going to jail. You know what, jail really fuck my, you know what I mean, look, like, they was in my business, you know. Yeah, of course. Yeah, it was in my business, man. I pray, man. Pray God, you know, due to the grace and the mercy of God, I've made it to where I am right now. Still doing what I love. Man. And, you know, still changed the standard of living for my family. Man. But forever, however, I just think about had I not had those, you know, those hiatuses. Right. Man, what the fuck. It wouldn't be the season in that it is, though, wouldn't it. It's a certain thing. It's a certain thing, too. You know, everybody don't have old bank. You feel me? But you can't replicate old bank. But some people go get their game from college. Some people go to the military. I feel like a lot of the, a lot of my, my wisdom, a lot of my awareness, a lot of the things that I counted, my antennas. Yeah. I think I got that shit from prison, you know. And you got leadership skills, too, so you know who and, you know, you can, you know, the maneuver your way in. Man, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that, that could have been, you know, I'm saying the clout that were hanging over my head. I would really do your training. Jump myself right quick, because I know I feel like I'm gonna go sit there. Yeah. And we had, we had a hell of a time, man. There we go. Okay. Oh, wow. Some of the faces I've been looking like, oh, she's, though. Oh, no. Okay. All right. She wasn't my deal, but, okay. I was so, I was so perfect. I was so perfect. I'm gonna tell you the deal was, like I was just actually getting serious in my relationship. Not just like it was the beginning. And then you tell my, I'm serious on the beginning. You wasn't serious. But now I'm telling, I'm, you know, getting serious in my relationship. Oh, yeah, okay. To me. Right. Right. And I remember, you know, that was the time, well, she said she wanted to go. Right. You can. Yeah. And I, I, I, I kind of, I, I, I, I peel, though, I peel, though, and I was 10, didn't bring the, yeah. Especially when that month came out. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was it. That was it. Yeah, man. It didn't. I didn't read the room on that one. But you know, you know, you know, who, most of the night face, who? - Yeah, you did that face. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Abraham, we had a time, man. - Okay, we gonna move on. But like I said, into the grace and the mercy of God, man. I got past all of them. - A lot of grace and mercy in the face. - Yeah, grace and behavior on the grace and mercy. - A lot of grace. - Yeah. - Man, what were your first thoughts of like a young T.A. when you, you know what I'm saying? When you meet a motherfucker that you got now introduced to from nowhere. You don't know this kid from nowhere. What were the first like thing that you thought? - You said the perfect things when you said this young arrogant. - Oh, you don't comp us, arrogant son of a bitch. - But I loved it. - That people think that that kind of came with, you know, me being a fluent and having opportunism. I was dead, broke, the same with the same energy. - No, I didn't think, I didn't think. - You know what I'm saying, no, no, no, I'm talking about us. - That's what I loved about it. That was the whole sauce. I was like, oh, this nigga, he gonna be all right. That's why I wanted you to round. 'Cause like if we had someone we can put you in there. Let's get him in there. - Right on. I believe that. - I always appreciate it. I always appreciate it. - And you know the knowledge and the wisdom that came at the rooms that you were gracious enough to have me. - Oh man, I appreciate it. - Hey man, you're doing it a thousand times. - Yeah. - You wanna talk about it? - What you making? - What you making? - The jeezie. - What you talking about? - The bang. - Oh yeah, that was a big one. - Come on now. - That was a big one. - I forgot you did. - Come on. - Don't you? - 'Cause you ain't got no old boys. - No! - But you know what I didn't put my, you put my voice on there. - Yeah. - Because I felt like jeezie had his own thing. - Yeah. - A lot of people didn't know I signed jeezie. - No, I didn't even know that. - You didn't know that, no, no. - You didn't know jeezie was on my label? - Fuck no. - Jeezie was on show, no. - I didn't know that. - I'm gonna send you a clip. - I had no idea. - But if you noticed, he was in the passenger seat with me for a reason and goodies video. - Okay. - Jeezie is in the passenger seat. Jody Breeze is in the back seat. - Okay. - I mean, I was in jail. - Now, let's go. Now, you got a show now, so you can, you know what I mean? - Yeah, yeah. - You go to stay fresh. All the player do is stay fresh. - Okay. - You go and have it, we got on white dicky suits. - Uh-huh. - That peaches me. (laughs) - Yeah. - You can do it. - Shout out to peaches, Jeez, baby. - Yeah, they been alone. - Hey, Jeez, baby, don't dicky suits. What's going on? Everybody had them boys. She was racking up. Yeah, so we all had on the white dicky suits. I like the show enough crew. Everybody. - Okay. - Everybody was in that video. Lo, it was there. - Oh, Lo, it's another, another legendary piece of talent that came from the show now. - Yeah, yeah. We're Jasper and all of them. - Hey, man. Okay. So, how did you find Jeez's sign them in there? - Well, what happened was, Gizzy came over here again, over at dark. - Okay. - I was at dark. He came over and he brought me eight CDs. First of all, I met him, I met him at a function over in a P-Mart, and then he walked up, I've seen him standing out. And I've seen him several times, and I was like, "What'd you do?" He's like, "I rap." He's like, "I like you, don't." (laughing) So you had a chain on, you know what I'm saying? He had the good diamonds, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, we know the difference, you know what I'm saying? It's like, "Ah, you know, I said, man, "I'm gonna come by and never pull up on you, man. "Come to the studio and show you what I got." So I'm like, "This thing got his own shit." You know what I'm saying? He's like, "Yeah, man, I got a quarter third. "Did I just met?" So he had eight CDs, he brought me. The same CD, and it wrapped in plastic. It was, come shot with me. - Okay, I remember that CD. - It's soft and hard. - Okay. - He had a little giant on one side, or everybody, pass the tray, or everybody, all the features on one side, on the soft, and on the heart, he had all street records. So I go, and I want them easy, slim, everybody. Five of y'all them, all them. Earl and all of them, and noony. So I'm listening, what y'all think? You know I like them, you know what y'all thought? He was dope. - Right. - Everybody's like, "Hey, everybody has something different "that he said." Oh, this thing's a real street nigga now. No, he's a real street nigga. I tell you, no, for real. No, and then hump, mill hump. - Yes. - Hump, hump, and now Joe. Now Joe, nah, nah. Nah, niggas on, you know, and E from fat cats. Nah, nah, nah, nah. Niggas ain't no, you know, E, he get emotional. He's like, "Hey, nah, niggas, talk about this." And this, little, little, little, little, little. - Yeah. - It's real street nigga, shit. I was like, so, so you, I like, okay. - Then you said it. - I, I, I, I fell in love with the authenticity of it. - Yeah, you know, that, that, that, that. - Yeah, it was that, you know what I'm saying? So I said, okay, back. We gonna reach out, we gonna, we gonna holler a shake, and we gonna go and get us a meet with L.A. - Okay. So, me and me. - How was shake involved at the time? - Shake was, you know, he was in R for, for, for L.A. - No, for L.A. Reid. - Okay, so, he was, he was out at a hit call. - I'm trying to figure out when, you know, you, you pass the, the CDs from when he gave you the eight CDs and everybody liked it. How did you meet with, with young and say, "Hey, I like what I heard, and I wanna say." - He came to the studio. - Okay. - And he came to the studio. He broke, he came to the studio and, and like, I called him. - I called him. - And I was, and he met back up with me, and we, we just chopped it up, and I was like, man, look. We, we got, we playing this for shake. - Yeah. - Shake came, shake met him. He loved it. You know what I'm saying, man, let's set up a meet. - Okay. - So it was me. We met up in New York, met up in New York. I think it was at a time when L.A. had a makeshift office. He was, and he was just getting in the Diff Jam office. So he wasn't fully received by everybody, like that. 'Cause you had Diff set next door. - Right. - Okay, had it on a photo. Like, what L.A. gonna do? - Yeah. So, L.A. was right here on the corner in the makeshift office. Getting his office prepared. Jim Jones was right here getting his hair cut. Like, you gotta wait, set, and everything up in Diff Jam. He got the cape on, getting the hair cut. So we walked in, it's setting the scene. So, so I walked in. Me, me, Big Zack had did some records with you. And they were to the side. He had a record buzzing on the street. It was a record with him and Bun B. - Okay. - The record it was, we getting money over here. - What did you do with the new Pippin? - Yeah. - So, in his mind-- - When he was gonna get the fuck going with it. - Yeah. - So, in his mind, he was gonna play this record and get a deal with L.A. I was like, I don't know L.A. for doing single deals, but I'm gonna keep that low. 'Cause they was kind of moving in their own cylinders already. So, fast forward when L.A. sitting there and he got the old blackberry, when he hits that blackberry, he's summoning everybody in the room. He's already pre-prepped them to know if this nigga jamming I'll need y'all to walk in and support me. - Okay. So, it's just me, him, and Karen Quack at the time. - All right, Karen Quack. That's usually to get me my chicks. - Yeah, absolutely. - One time for Karen Quack, how you doing? - Yeah. - He was Quack. - Hey, so Quack, so he didn't send out the message when he heard the "Burn B" record. So, she said, "Hey, shake, text me." He said, "Play the other records." So, I looked over at Jesus and I don't think they was, Jesus is like trying to sell the record, but, you know, that's another thing, but anyway. So, L.A. didn't move, there's a street record. You know, L.A. is not a street record type of guy. - Right. - I had a record that showed the stats of how much it was being played down there and all of the-- - It wasn't, it didn't have, no. They might have had that, but-- - Okay. - If L.A. don't like it, he don't care. He didn't really care. Now, he wanted, he wants to believe in the record. - So, what would the record that y'all played? - There was a record called, we call it Dave Chappelle, and it was "I'm Rich Bitch." - Okay. - Two cars in a truck. "I'm Rich Bitch." Hit the club, tear it up. - I ain't never heard that one. - You're on YouTube, it's on the, it's okay. - So, played the record. Dave Chappelle was on fire at the time. L.A. was like, "Boom!" (laughing) Kevin Lowes walked in, Tina Davis, "Scaned Dollar" from DJ Clue, Steve Bottles. - Okay. - Somebody else. Of course it was New Deal on my side. - Them like-- - They're Avengers. - Yeah, they're here. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Fucking divisions. - Yeah, you threw the roof. - Yeah, threw the roof. - Yeah. - So, me, Noonie, Big Zack, or with Jeannie, where you got Jeannie, you got Coach K, and then you had Kinky B. - Okay. - Them three corporate thugs. - Okay. - They all in the building. They sitting on the couch right there. - Okay. - You know, in shape. So, it's up. - So okay. - So he's like, "Okay, L.A. says back like this, "He was like, "All right, roll that back to the top. "Let me see it." (laughing) You all look like, "Let you see it." I said it. He said, "Man, listen bro." This is, this is what it is. I stood up, I broke, I cut you not. - Let me see your craze is here. About it. (laughing) - Let me see your craze. It got a craze, it got a craze, it got a craze, it got a craze. - He wanted to see the song. He wanted to see you. - I'm staying with you. - He wanted to see you before the song. - With no content. Let me see it. - Yeah, yeah, that's the thing, yeah, that's the thing. - That's a song, buddy. - Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. So they played the song from the top and didn't work. (laughing) So they played the song, they played the song. - Outrage, man. - Everybody went crazy. - Right. - They're like signing him. He like, listen. - And he let you do the role. - He's like, it's like 2pm in the afternoon. - I'm not finna let y'all in here run around New York City. - That's the movie. - You know, with this right here. - Mm-hmm. - I think one of those deciding factors as well that, I mean, kind of put a little more cement on the thing. Jim Jones comes walking in, got the cape on. He had half done up, right? He said, hey, he pointed at LA. He said, hey, don't fuck that up. That's it. (laughing) That's it. - Right. - That's it. Hey, hey, homie. How let me when y'all get done? - Yeah. - How let me, you know what I'm saying? He walked out. - Yeah. - LA was like, he looked like, hey, man, I just didn't get it walked in this office. I don't get it. - Right. - He was like, I'm like, man, I'm too lazy to walk in this office. - Hey, you ain't happening. I felt like then, he said, I gotta sign him now. - Yeah. - I got to. I gotta had his due. He was like, man, what y'all wanna eat? What y'all wanna eat? We ordered some food. Got down a wooded on the phone. Got my people on the phone. John's to lend it all in folk. - Yeah. And made a deal. - Okay, so after the deal, we're made. I'm saying, high in the hill. If you said, jeezie, did you not stay all the way through the rest of the career? - Well, it was a, it was a, it was a touchy situation kind of 'cause they were burnt. Of course, they were moving as a, their own entity. - Yeah. - And it was a few things going on behind the scenes. I don't even wanna talk about, but I mean, we split, I'm a complete, you know what I'm saying? And it was cool. It was cool. - I never knew that you had a hand in a jeez. - No one didn't like it, my decision to do it, but now I didn't. - Noonie, man, noonie something else. What are the last time you saying, oh noonie. - It's been a minute, I'll talk to him now. - Yeah, man, noonie's, noonie's a great, great mentor, great mentor. So after that, who would you call like a jazzy fade artist that you feel like you've had a hand in a career from beginning up to now? - Who's a product that's show enough? - What you mean? - Like a product that's show enough that you actually have had from the beginning. - I was really never a record company guy. - Okay, got it. - I was more so into the record company thing 'cause everybody else was doing it. - Yeah, yeah. They were like, man, you got to have a label. I was like, I got a label. I never really, if you look at show enough like the, like we were just, we just had success. - A production company. - Yeah, we're a production company. We were just had success. We had cherish, we had, we had block entertainment. - Okay. - Block entertainment came from show enough. - So boys in the hood. - Yeah, boys in the hood. Also, Polo came from show enough. - Okay. - Polo, I signed Polo when he was 17 years old. - Mm. - So before Jim Crow. - I signed him as an artist. - Before Jim Crow. - I made Jim Crow. Jim Crowe come together because they had one song together. They had a song called "We Make Them Hosey" and I said, "Who are the other guys on the record?" - Right. - And I love that record so much. We was at patchwork's on Tim Street. I mean, yeah, you know, meh on the corner up there. So when he played the record, I was like, "Who are these guys?" - Right. - And he said it was Motown and Cutty. - Okay. - And I was like, "Can y'all do this together?" He's like, "Man, yeah." So they made the group, they came up with a name of the group and we did that. Took a man a scope. Unless you have the illustrious polar gun career, which to me, I mean. - Well, you know, Polo Ashley, man, he became, you know, I guess when did we find out that Polo did beast the way he do? Did he do that? Did he do something? - I knew because his sister was making beast, is where Riri. - Do it! - Do it, remember the song? - I do remember the song. I didn't know she did it. - Yeah, she did that. - That was like her biggest record, I think. I don't want to, yeah, but she would be out on that basement and he would get on the drum machine and just like you, he'd be right there next to me, but he was like, "Oh, like next to me all the time." - Right. - Learning how to put the sounds down and like, I'd be going out to the club. He'd be like, "Man, can I just, can you keep the sounds up?" "Let me, you know what I'm saying?" And I'd come back and like, "What?" "Okay, you did that." Like, "Oh, yeah." He started, and he just started. You know, he's soaking a lot of game, you know what I'm saying? You know some of how we wanted to ask you, bro, with your upbeat, like overtly positive energy. - Yeah. - Have you ever found it difficult to remain that positive and upbeat in the industry? - Of course. - Like, like what would the time that you really had to overcome the environment, to remain as positive as you are? - I don't think it's just one particular situation. I think it's just times when people take your kindness, you know, for weakness, because it's far from that. I mean, you kind of know my backdrop. Well, as far as like some of my guys, you know what I'm saying? So, but I never stood on like, I never wanted to put my guys in the line of fire, you know what I'm saying? So I'm gonna call, that I don't call these names out. 'Cause they got situations behind the scenes as well. I always wanted my guys to be with me. I don't want my guys to be behind the wall. So, a lot of people, since I didn't put that on the front street, a lot of people didn't think it existed. But it very well existed. It was a reason why I could move around the streets like I could, you know what I'm saying? But I think it was when people took my kindness for weakness and especially in the industry. - Man, I think that a lot of time, man, when you present yourself, when you treat people the way you want to be treated, you dig them saying, and you know, you kind of polite and speak to people, manners and kind of, you know what I mean? Yeah, they think that means something else. They do think that means something else. It's getting different now, but at that time, it really, you really, if you weren't like frowning, scowling, and you know what I'm saying? And leading with a real heavy hand sense of aggression. And yeah, you would be kind of taking, taking for sweet, you know what I mean? I understand that and tell you show them something. Yeah. Speaking to showing them something, man, you impressed us with me at least last year, when you went on a weight loss journey, where you lost over a hundred pounds, eating watermelon. Well, it wasn't over a hundred, it was already at 90. I mean, come on, man. Come on, man. I'm out of game, about 15 back. I'm back on my thing, though, but yeah. So what did you learn about the watermelon dad? Man, what did you actually eat only watermelon? No, no, I didn't. I ate a lot of watermelon. I saw this guy on Instagram. Man, what come on, can't you remember this man's name? Yeah, I believe that's terrible. So you saw some bad old Instagram? Yeah, I sent him on Instagram and he was like, on the watermelon truck, you know what I'm saying? Well, he went on the truck, but he was like, talking about this watermelon, you know what I'm saying? And bro, he was just like, man, the watermelon does this man and he's showing up before and after, before and after pictures. And man, it was just like amazing. I was like, let me try, I like watermelon. Right. Let me try watermelon. How long did you, how long did you, did you stay on that, on that journey? Like 100 some days. 100 some days. Yep. Watermelon. I was even. What? Watermelon and fruits and vegetables mostly. Okay. Like fish. And I wouldn't eat it in a minute and fast and, you know, saying like, like, probably like in the afternoons early afternoons. Okay. So she, would you, would you recommend that, that regiment for somebody else who's trying, who's trying to lose weight? Yeah, long as they don't have diabetes or something like that because there is sugar and watermelons. Okay. And then eating it or, or as a reflux. Okay. Got it. I noticed that some people that were doing that were having an issue with, with, with as a reflux. Do you, um, so, so how do you, so how do you, if you're not doing that, if you're not doing that for you, for your, for your regiment, how do you still maintain, you know, for, uh, uh, uh, uh, health and weight for yourself now without that. Well, I, you know, man, just like anything, man, you get on it and then you, then you get into a, uh, a place where, where you feel it, like, it went out of season. Mm hmm. Watermelon go out of season. I didn't, in fact, that out of my head. Right. Then you have to re-adapt to all the foods. And so during that time, and when you're getting weight back, you know, it's end because you know, you ain't got the watermelon. Got it. It's a daily, like the watermelon has been as good. I don't know what it, what it was. If he's a bush, you got to go, you got to, you got to, got to find good. We got to look for water, man. I like, we used to look for good weed back there. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You got to find a source. Right. And they got to be seeded. Yeah. Yeah. So the seeded watermelon is, is the real watermelon. And if you got a season of the month, we could say they got it. It's probably some bush. Yeah. Oh, man. They probably, they probably some. Like, yeah, so, man, I'm coming home with five, six watermelons and only two of them good. That's a crazy ratio. Now, what about, what about what you do when you ain't in the studio? What kind of, what kind of time you be on when you ain't actually focusing on music? Um, man, hang out, go to the movies, go, go, um, go on like dates. Oh, you date. I love something. Okay. Okay. I love it. Good old dinner date. Yeah, man. Because, you know, I said back in the day, it wasn't no dating. You know, I'm saying, it was just, you know, meeting. Where are the pants? It was meeting and treating. You ain't wearing no dating. Yeah. Back in the day. Yeah. So you evolved. Yeah. Okay. That's what's up. It was a meeting and treating back in the day too. Yeah. I did that. Yeah. Let me ask you, who's your favorite producer to work with? My favorite producer to work with. Uh-huh. Probably, um, one of my favorite guys probably Casey to produce it right now. That's with me right now. But like notably, like, um, drummer boy. Dope. Drummer boy. Drummer boy. Drummer boy. One of my favorites, man. Drummer boy. And same Wayne. Right on. And then same Wayne worked with me on the Taylor album. Okay. He actually worked with me on some of the Taylor. He didn't work on show enough, but he actually, um, worked on some of that. That album. Yeah. And he taught me a lot about production. Drummer boy. Hard-ass. Yeah, man. Drummer. Drummer's one of my favorite people. Period. Yeah, drummers. Drummer silent. We got some work we put in there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or the Bertha trap music. Yeah. You can't get away from from them. Uh-huh. What about when you work with Kanye? How was it like producing for someone else, another producer? Um, I mean Kanye, just like everybody else. I mean Kanye is a music lover, first of all. Right. And very, um, seasoned. So he, man, he had a lot. He had a lot of, um, both of y'all got y'all ways of production. Yeah. No doubt. But you know, we're working with so many superstars and so many entities. Uh-huh. You know, you, once you get in the room with, with, you know, certain people, man, Tony Braxton's. Right. All these people like that and a liaison. Like all kinds of different attitudes. Yeah. You work with a Leo? What? Wait a minute. I wasn't around. You didn't know a Leo? I worked with a Leo? Nah, man. Wow. I did. I don't want to. I don't want to be. Be without you. I had no idea. And can I come over? Yeah. Come over. Matter of fact, we did both of those records the same day. For real? Yeah. Me and John T. Austin. John T. Austin. And Brian Michael Cox. Okay. Dottie Scance as well. Okay. I don't want to. Yeah. Damn. And Kevin Hicks. Chris's brother played that was. No guitars you heard all over the one time. Right. That's Kevin Hicks. That's Chris's older brother. Okay. So shit, man. So you getting the role. You have a bump here. I would imagine. Sometimes you're going to have to kind of bump here. It's what a producer, man. Yeah. When he think this way of the best. And you like now telling you this to sound. Like, you know, how do you work through those moments? Man, listen. Sometimes, sometimes you just have to, you have to. Back down. And, and, and just let them see. what the vibe is, and then I'll be like, okay, what if we try this? You try that, mute that, let me show you something, because what I do, I get in the headphones. All right, but I get in the headphones, boom, because I ain't never going to say, I don't like something if I can't fix it. Okay. So I began to find the remedy first. Right. I want to find an answer to the problem before I go and start saying, I don't like something. It's like, oh, so because that's just like, you know, you looking for something that's going to do what you're not doing. It's going to add to the sauce, but whatever. In some cases, I mean, some people don't really, you know, understand, but you know, it's like a co-producer. Got it. Now, now, I think it's been, now I want to make sure I got this shit right. I want to make sure I got this shit right. You inducted it to the Memphis music hall of fame. Yeah. And your father's also the Memphis music hall of fame. There's only one other father, son, combo that's ever inducted in the music hall of fame. Which was? I forgot. You got that. I will find it. We'll find it. All right. So how does that feel? Was you and your dad able to share that moment together? Oh, man. Yeah. He actually announced me. He inducted me. He inducted me. That's all right. Yeah. That was dope. That was dope. That's cold. That's well as a mixed emotion because, you know, my mom was there. Okay. So, you know, it was like, you know, it was dope. Yeah. Shit, man. Well, I mean, that's, you know, that's a pretty fucking dope bad career coming from a motherfucker who, who just, you know, saying we're trying to come up with some money to get down, get a, get a hotel for a week or so. Yeah. I mean, mission. That's what the mission was to get here. That's a pretty solid evolution. You really know how it was going to look. We just going to take the trip. I just want to enjoy it. I'm enjoying the journey. I enjoy the journey. Tell me what you think of the difference here, man. The bigger difference that you could tell the difference between then and now. I think now, I think it's more DIY. You know what I'm saying is doing yourself, like, you know, far as like giving up to that point. It's like not so much. I got to find somebody who knows somebody. I can go straight to the consumer. I can go straight to somebody through shock value on Instagram or wherever on TikTok or wherever I can go. I can go straight into the main thing. Okay. And I can, you can go even direct to consumer. You know what I'm saying or whatever. I think that that's the difference back then. It was more, you know, it was like you, you know, like you just say, you was driving by the rim shop. Why ain't you stopping? Man, I wasn't driving. I was passing you back. Now I'm saying, like this is where I was. I was a little bit. Yeah. I'll be forgetting how to win the A different further goes down. You know, you know, you know, I was a little bit man. I was in the studio, boy, when they was like, don't touch that. I'm like, over here. No, but no, that's jazzy. He know. Yeah. He know he been on the on the board. I was on the board, boy, when he was like, four people on the board. And they were like, okay, let's fade this thing. We're fading. We're doing man and phase on a stutter. Man. Yeah. So many stories, man. I got a lot of, yeah, but we could do a couple of these. Yeah, but I want to know about the turn. I want to know how you and Pup see ended up bumping here about the same, about the same, about the same, bro. Funny thing. And how they turn it to, how they turn it to a friendship. That's crazy because I met her. I met the girl that we've got into it about at the rim shop. And I'm going to bring it all the way back to the rim shop. L'Ole Pimpsi, man. L'Ole Pimps, man, Pimps. Oh my god. I let that do so. Me and Pimps, I went to the old patchworks on the one I was on Testree. So I mean, I mean, Pimps is there. He working with a client. So he's there. And the girl that I was we both had in in in a comment, her car was a cat like a latte. One of old school like a latte. A latte, man. A latte. It's a latte. It's an eighth different. There's a latte. It's an old thing. So it was old. So you know, I know, you didn't know that, buddy. You didn't want it. But, but, uh, it was, but it was nice. It was nice. You know, I'm saying, you know, it was clean. It was clean. It was nice. Really nice. She had got it from somebody, but it was nice. A brother was a cousin was in the game or something. He was a hustler. So, and, uh, that I think that's probably how they met, you know, I'm saying. So, um, I pulled up and I see the car outside before I see, uh, Pimps, right? So I'm like, what are you actually doing here? Right? So I'm not asking the questions. I want, and I don't really know Pimps that well. Now, I'm just really kind of, like you just now started to be around Atlanta. And I'm like, I hear that they moved out here, whatever. So I'm going in and just say, what's up to him? I'm on my way somewhere already. So, when I come in and stop, you know, they got to have the little room break room where he rapping. He and then rapping. Boom. So he got on, uh, um, I think did that want to make it? Now, I was like, it had to be hot outside. But anyway, so he and that rapping, he freestyled. And so his freestyle consisted of everything that was going on with him and the bro, uh, man, here's her mix. Then they're going, baby, running Cadillac drama. I was like, Oh, that thing. I'm talking to the same girl. It's like some real live usher and I can't at least get going. So how close were you? How close were you and the young lady? We was just, we was just, I want an off. Okay. We were just, she was just a vibe of mine. Hey, great, you know, friends or whatever, whatever, whatever. But I knew she was, you know, she was, she was liable. So she wasn't expected to be exclusive to it. No, no, no. But you know, it wasn't about, it was, it was more so him. He was like, so I was wrong in the beginning because, no, let me tell you, let me tell you what happened, don't tell. Let me tell you what happened. I didn't have time to tell him what was going on. It wasn't the right time. I didn't know him well enough to have that conversation right then. Right. He had people around him. I don't know, no, no, no, no. I don't think that's a real conversation to really behave. Amos Plier. No, you know what I'm saying? I mean, but look, I'm gonna tell you what happened now. So, so I had, I had a phone call and I had to leave. I wanted to tell him, but I couldn't tell him right now. So I'm like, I wanted to tell him. And, you know, I wanted to tell him. I want to tell him what I like. I really like Pimp. I really like really, but it was serious. I didn't know. I see you understand. I didn't know who he was. I didn't really know him as a man. Right. I don't know, you know what I'm saying? And I was trying to gain a relationship with him. Right. So she could go. I didn't care about that. I care more about the relationship because I'm about music. I wouldn't buy no, no bro. Yeah, I'm a real place. I feel like even more so a lady want to share that exact share that, you know, for me. It ain't even that big for me. If she chose that, it's, I'm a real place. She chose, she made a choice. Right. She let that man ride in the car. It's just a ride. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. She made a new ride. I'm rocking with you. And you, you got, you, you're driving your car. I thought you said it wasn't a series. It wasn't a series, - Okay, okay, okay. - It ain't never that serious if she make a choice. - That's right. - She gone. - I'm sorry, I like Angie. - She can go. - No, no, but she can go. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, look. I love this story, though, this is one of my favorites, actually. - Okay. - And I, um, so I leave, so, Greg, G, he hooked it up. - Okay. - I think it might've been V or something like that. They pull up. They pulls up to, you know, got it, come see Pimp Pimper Town. Boom, oh, hey. Well, I see it on, I see Jazz Hill girl on Carl Sack. - Uh-huh. Pimp call it. (burps) - Jazz it tape, nigga, ain't nigga. Man, what call the niggas, you man? You know I was talking about the brown man. (imitating music) Ain't nigga, ain't fight, go with this shit, man. Whatever, whatever. - Yeah, whatever, throw it here, hang up on me. Try calling back in as it phone. I think one time he said, nigga, don't be calling my phone. Whatever, okay. Boom, so. His first in line, like, behind him was brother Hashim. Rest in peace, brother Hashim. - Hold up, hold up, hold up. - He was with the nation, so he was always, you know, protecting, you know, the nation around, bunning, bunning Pimp. - Okay. - So when he was here, brother Hashim was his guy. You know, brother was close to the minister and everybody like that, brother Hashim would be around it. So, man, Hashim, talk it. I say, yeah, man, he, you know, he upset about it. You know, yeah, y'all should have a conversation, man. Y'all coming together. And I like, I said, is he willing to talk? I was like, you know what I'm saying? So we met at the car wash in Buckhead on peace tree. And so- - The one that used to be next to Kaya. - Nah, the one across the street from the publics. - Okay, yeah. - Buckhead and McDonald's and publics right here. - Yeah, it's a car wash right there. And we met Big Slam was with me. - Okay. - But I had big slam in the cut 'cause he got there. (laughing) [LAUGHTER] Make it look like I'm by myself. Man, I am, man. I am, man. Hey, you took the wrong nigga to, man. I mean, man, not the nigga to go, but you just go sit down and talk about something. Uh-oh. But not not, man. I would have real with him. And if it was going to be that, then it was going to be that. Man, I don't think, but you know what I'm saying. But you know, because the conversation was heavy. So I had to leave him on when he cut. So you know, he's sitting in my other people getting a car wash. So it's a car wash. So, you know, we out in public, what can go on in a car wash? So he pulls up, he jump out, and he looked around, saw that I was by myself. You know what I was alone? All his defenses dropped. I can see his whole spirit. Just go with something else. He's like, man. So we talked about it somehow. I was just like, hey, man, listen, bro. If you mess with the bro, cool. I ain't going to talk to him no more. You going to take him. Somehow the conversation got to that, and that was it. That was it. And then we became close like brothers. Yeah, man. After that, I always said, this is something that I got in my notes that I had no idea about y'all. I've never heard, I've never heard the story up until the day. So a lot of things, you gotta save 'em for certain time. Somebody presented it to me in my real life. Oh, yeah, they know. Yeah, they're real things else, they know. But what I will say here, bro, I think that it's important, it is a very important key. Especially to youngsters out there to know, hey, man, don't wrap your emotions up in no woman. And less you is 100% willing to marry that woman. Don't wrap no hunt because women out here, man, they looking for theirs, just like you looking for yours. So if you run into one, and me and my partners, not to say that y'all have to adopt this, but me and my partner, we have a rule. You have one among all the women you deal with, there's one, there's off limits. That mean, if I know you and I fuck with you and I'm rocking with you, the one girl that you have, there's off limits, I ain't talking to you, ain't looking at 'em, none of that. Types here. But all the mother, man, don't come, come ask me about that. How your, how is your one doing? Are you happy, y'all still together? There's still your one, man, come on, man. Don't come talking to me about these other ones, man. Right. The mother one, man, I'm Lucy's, man. Lucy, Lucy's, man, you know what I'm saying? Don't you do that. You got one, if you love it, better hold the hand. Hold the hand, man. Walk into my hold the hand, get matching t-shirts, I'm gonna fucking know y'all together, man. Hey, shit, you got one, you got one, you got one, I fuck with you, that one that you got, I'm gonna treat that one, like my sister, nuffin, crawling over the line like that, exactly. And the rest of 'em, they're manning for the world. You the, for this crease? So in his defense though, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, or hurt another nigga gonna end up doing a bunch of time and she gonna end up with another nigga. Yeah, everybody ain't playing me, but you know, everybody's playing, you know what I'm saying? I was a real player, though, all around me. I was living with cool ace, man. Cool Maka Asa, you know what I'm, I was with cool ace, man. Come on, man, I was surrounded by him. Hey, man, well, I appreciate you, man, I really do and I don't know if there's enough people who tell you, man, how much we appreciate your contributions to the culture. And not enough people know about how much you've contributed to the culture. You feel what I'm saying? So really, man, I really do appreciate you, man. Let me ask you, if everything you built disappeared tomorrow, the records, the money, the reputation, what would still make you feel like your life was meaningful? My relationship with that. Because I feel like there's nothing that he can get me back to or through, you know what I'm saying? I was raised in the church. I was, thus we have, you know, Javinda wanted to trap stars, the gospel group. It's not really a gospel group, but we do inspirational music. And we just on the Stellar's this past Sunday. Okay. I mean, I don't know what it's going to air, but, you know, Stellar Worsen, check out our performance by the way, but to be able to tell me about a, like, a contemporary, gospel group. Yeah, she loves it. She loves it. Yeah, she loves it. Yeah. She, she, she spoke very highly of it. Yeah, man. Javinda Warren gas money. Uh, Jazzy Faith, man, that's the trap stars, man, that's the nucleus of it. But we, you know, everybody traps stars, man, you know what I'm saying? Tell them revolving around purpose. That's the trap. Okay, man. And how did you, how did you meet them? Uh, man, I met Javinda back 20 years ago, okay, sheep dog. Long live sheep dog, man, another real, another big old player, and a game, come on, and a horse. Oh, sheep dog was, he was a real, he really loved a legend. Yeah, real, real, real. Put down some real. I'm saying, you know, sheep dog, man, you know, back from 40 street and all of them guys and you don't quay walk on it. Yeah. So he had, he had Javinda one, and they, they, you know, uh, were actually roommates at the time. Okay. And he was like, you know, just behind him 100,000%. You know, sheep, do everybody. So he invited me out to come see Javinda perform at, um, the old, uh, was it 1150 at the time? Then it became opera. Well, on, on Crescent. Okay, yeah. So he, uh, brought me out and see Vaughn performing. Man, he was just, he was amazing to me, but have, so how did that, how did you put a song for me? How did that go, you know, from, from him being a solo artist to the evolution of having the trap start? Well, it was just, I mean, over time, just over time, just trying different things. He had two deals with, uh, Dev Jam. Right. Uh, that, you know, so excited or whatever, and then the next thing, you know, he was just, you know, he just started getting inspirational in his speaking. Mm. And then he was always a performer and an artist developer, you know what I mean? Also writing with Tricky Stewart and all of those guys, um, man, and then just round the dream. He's one brought the, brought the dream to the tricky. Mm. Yeah, Vaughn did that. Okay. Yeah, he brought, he brought the dream to Tricky. Okay. Uh, what you with that? He was over that red zone. Well, that's a Vaughn question. Mm. But, um, yeah. So, you know, we became best friends, you know, man. And he also manages me now. So, uh, yeah. He just tied me. He had a manager. Wait a minute. So you got a manager. This is also your artist. He's not my artist. Okay. So he's just happens to be an artist. Okay. In trap style. Yep. Okay. And so trap style is relation to Jazzy Fate. And we, we just partners. Partners. Yeah, like production partners. Got it. Okay. And we, we, we, we, brothers though. I got it. So we just, just something that we like, you know, we just started doing it. Mm hmm. And it just came out like that. We got to record now. 10X, my blessings. Okay. It's out right now. Forming the thing. Uh, had Johnny Guille on the stage with his, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, that Stella, you got to check it out. Okay. That performance here. We had like 35 dancers. That, that, that, why you need that many? That ain't me, that's your fault. Yeah. Got you. That's the whole number conversation. Well, man, ain't number some, ain't number some blessings. Uh, and, and, and, you know, just congratulations and, man, ain't number some love and respect. Thank you. For all of the things that you've done. Absolutely. Uh, for the game throughout throughout your time, throughout your journey. Um, thank you for everything you've done on behalf of myself. Man. Oh man. That goes without saying. I mean, you know, um, to who much is giving much is required. And I think that you, you, you've done some, you've done it. You always had a given heart. And one thing that I really respected about you is your, and the thing that, that helped me a lot. And you probably didn't know was your fatherhood. Because I didn't really know, you know, I learned from different people. But you were one of the people that were like, you know, we were like minded. And we were like in a, in a, in a similar space, you know, far as with the creativity and stuff. And, and, and even with, with some of the other things. Um, the way you fathered them kids, man, and the way you even fathered some other, some of these other kids that people don't know that you probably, you know what I'm saying? You got a lot of folk that, that, that look at you like a father figure, you know what I'm saying? Because you, you, you run, you run that, you run that ship. And, and, and commend you on that. And, and, and, you know, I also usher in these kids to be great, you know what I'm saying? Right on. Shout out to all of them, because I'm working with most of them. That's what's up, yeah. We jamming. That what I'm saying. But, but the, you know, the institution of culture that you've represented from the time, you know, you've been allowed to be in the game. To win, you know, you had a chance to do whatever you wanted to do with the game. Up until right now where you were in the game and, you know, to maintain that, that, that leadership. Uh, and, and that mentor ship. Yes, sir. It's just incredible. and I appreciate it. - Man. - I ate. - Thank you. - Oh, I gotta let her know. - I love her for sure. - For once original. - Okay. - For once original. - For once original, you gotta close them. - Yes sir. - They make my sad. - Yes sir. - For real. - Yes sir, I got some for you. - Okay. - I got some for once original. - Yes sir. - So how do you get, how do you get, for once original outfit? - Instagram. - Go on Instagram. Go on Instagram. And when it's online, for once original.com. - Okay. - Yeah. - I bet. - Just like that, like for once the snowman. - And oh yeah, you F.O. You F.O. Chevy is the watermelon man. I had to look at my phone when you woke up. (laughing) He gonna be like, "Man you what on earth? You ain't shoving me out." - You F.O. Chevy. - You F.O. Chevy man. 'Cause I gotta shout out to him. - Yeah man. 'Cause you know that, that, that. - Is it also the source of watermelon that what you go get it to? - Then you can get it to. You can get it from him. He got him. If he can't get it, he'll point you to it. He ain't no hater. He ain't no hater. (laughing) - Hey man. - Right here, it's maliciously bro, we have something we call the word of the day. - Okay. - Now the word of the day is the word that is chosen, you know, to represent either the conversation or the artist of the episode. - Okay. - And today, Jazzy Faye. - Uh-oh. - Jazzy Fenzel. - Oh boy. - Today, the word that we have chosen for this episode is trellotitious. - Trellotitious. - Trellotitious. - Not trellotitious. - No, not trellotitious. - Okay. - Trellotitious. - Uh. - Hand it down from generation to generation, especially through tradition. - Hmm. - Jazzy Faye's trellotitious connection to music is evident in the way he carries full with the sound, traditions, and lessons passed down through generations of his family. - Oh. - Trellotitious. - That's cold. - Yeah. - Trellotitious. - Hey, man. - That's mean and vicious. - You feel what I'm saying? - Yeah, I'm talking about picking up with you. - Yeah, man. - Give me any folks from news they can use. - Hey, man. I'm giving them some fly they can try. - No, I'm talking about me. - Hey, man. - Yeah. - It was a goldfish, man. - Let me know what you do with it for we through. - Oh, man. - Yeah. - All right, now. All right, now. Come on, now. - Oh. - Yeah. - Hey, man. - Hey, man. - If you get them enough clues, maybe they can get to the blues. - Yeah, man. - Yeah. - And we gotta put, we gotta, you know what I'm saying? We gotta put them down with some own music from the trap star. - Yes. - People, man, putting that shit out there, man. Because the world appreciates it. - It's tip done. - Tip is done for the moment. - Oh, for the moment. - I mean, what I'm saying is tip done. - It's a MJ on some solo shit. - You gotta studio, bro. I ain't gonna stop working. - First on some solo shit. This is the institution of course. It is for other people who coming through. I feel like right now, bro. I'll do projects like me and Drow working on a project together. - Don't. - I mean, PSC project. - I mean, I gotta be, I gotta be. I don't even think I've been on a PSC project. - Well, come on in. - I gotta, I'm gonna lock in. I'm gonna be really intentional about this. - Yeah. - Because I really, you know what I'm saying? I really need to express my opinion, man. - Come on with it. - How about you, man? Drop me off a pack and I make sure it get where it need to be. - I, you know, I like to be there, man. - Well, come on, pull up. - Man, pull up. - Rock 'em in, baby. - Anytime, man. - Yeah, man. We appreciate your game. We appreciate your talent. All of your legendary skills that you put out there for the world to appreciate and receive. Thank you for that game. - I appreciate you, man. I'm proud of you, don't. Man, everything that you've been doing, everything that you're becoming. You know what I mean, man. It's motivation. - Man, love motivation, man. - Love motivation, man. - I'm your son. - Oh, boy. - And this is bit expedition. - This is expedition. - I am til ti head. (upbeat music)