T.I. & CeeLo Green on Atlanta’s Rap Legacy, Dungeon Family & the New Gnarls Barkley

this is expeditiously i am tip ti harry uh-huh now the following experience is not a test the conversations and stories expressed on this podcast are meant to be an expression of purpose and truth this show properly entitled expeditiously is a free exchange of ideas and opinions no judgment no preconceived beliefs no fear you're encouraged to share your thoughts and ask any question as long as it's done with respect and that's through true love and respect for others that we will change the world and speak truth to power one show at a time now without further ado this is expeditiously i'm tip ti harry they say welcome y'all this is expeditiously i'm your host tip harry today on expeditiously we have someone who's more than just a superstar he's the true architect of sound you feel what i'm saying one of the voices that helped define the atlanta music scene as we know it today all right he's a storyteller a soul explorer and an artist who's never been afraid to follow his own path with 13 major awards including five grammys he has changed the landscape of music tremendously as a part of goody mob alongside the dungeon family he put atlanta on the musical map he helped craft a sound that was soulfully gritty honest and unapologetically southern music that reflected the city the culture and the struggles of atlanta uh and then there's barclay all right the collaboration with danger mouse that gave us crazy a song that didn't just become a hit but changed the way the world thought about genre production and the power of southern creativity through it all he's inspired countless artists to embrace atlanta's unique blend of soul hip-hop and innovation he helped make the city a hub for experimentation authenticity and musical excellence please welcome a man whose voice vision and influence continues to shape atlanta and the world my og silo green what's happening baby my pleasure what's up hey man what's happening with you how you doing i'm blessed man hey man i'm blessed hey man i'm surprised you ain't put your polo on today man i almost did it too i swore i did but hey that nip in the air man oh yeah yeah you need yeah you're gonna need a bubble you're gonna need a bubble coat man yeah triple down um you have one of those instantly recognizable voices when was it uh when was it like noticeable to you that your voice was so stand out um it's hard to really pinpoint a time um or i don't know i don't know because my my earliest you know inspirations were you know like these older men um whether it was these older male artists it was jackie wilson it was um you know otis redding and shit like that so like um if anything i think first and foremost you you have to become a fan of something shamelessly a fan of something you know what i mean um to where it becomes selfless you know and with that i had no gauge on who i was um let me let me let me um go here for a minute will smith said something there's a show that used to be on tv called um the actress guild you know you're familiar with that yes and um he said something that was really poignant to me and it's i kind of live by it now he said um he got into acting because at a point in everyone's growth and development we have a stage of identity crisis you know and so he got into acting because at that point uh of self-discovery he would have rather been anybody else besides himself because who was he you know what i'm saying right uh and so i likened that to my logic you know um as it pertained to uh music and i'm like um i didn't know i just i i knew that i could sing but what i was most more certain about then was i knew i could sing along right you know what i'm saying so just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know what i mean and then i'm just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know what i'm saying and so i'm just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know what i'm saying and so i'm just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know what i'm saying and so i'm just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know what i'm saying and so i'm just mimicking these people their voices were my voices just mimicking these people their voices were my voices you know me and as i thought that they were great i still thought that i could be great at some later point in time that's what so and it's it's funny that you point out uh you know singing as as a primary source of of your showcase of talent because when when i first heard about you you know what i'm saying it was on the mic yes in a different form um when i first heard about you you know what i'm saying it was on the mic yes in a different form um when i first heard about you you know what i'm saying it was on the mic yes in a different form um when i first heard about you you know what i'm saying it was on the mic yes in a different form um which came first for you was it singing or rapping which came first for you was it singing or rapping uh singing for me um uh singing for me um uh singing for me um because i grew up in the church both my because i grew up in the church both my because i grew up in the church both my mother and father were ministers mother and father were ministers mother and father were ministers okay um so i spent an awful lot of time okay um so i spent an awful lot of time okay um so i spent an awful lot of time in church in church in church and i loved gospel music so i loved you and i loved gospel music so i loved you and i loved gospel music so i loved you know artists like the whinings okay you know artists like the whinings okay you artists like the whinings okay you know i was really into the wine bbscc know i was really into the wine bbscc know i was really into the wine bbscc everybody bbcc as a matter of fact my everybody bbcc as a matter of fact my everybody bbcc as a matter of fact my mother used to be friends with um mother used to be friends with um mother used to be friends with um uh bb's uh first wife uh bb's uh first wife uh bb's uh first wife and she was a wedding director and and she was a wedding director and and she was a wedding director and coordinator she used to own a store coordinator she used to own a store coordinator she used to own a store called elegant bridal in greenbrier mall called elegant bridal in greenbrier mall called elegant bridal in greenbrier mall okay i remember yeah that's what she did okay i remember yeah that's what she did okay i remember yeah that's what she did and so i remember i was taking a road and so i remember i was taking a road and so i remember i was taking a road trip up to gary indiana and pop whiners trip up to gary indiana and pop whiners trip up to gary indiana and pop whiners they had a barbershop in the back of a they had a barbershop in the back of a they had a barbershop in the back of a record store that they owned as a family record store that they owned as a family record store that they owned as a family and so yeah pop minus cut my hair uh i and so yeah pop minus cut my hair uh i and so yeah pop minus cut my hair uh i drew a picture because back then i was of the Winans, and shouts out to all of them. I talk to Marvin, and I talk to, my bad, I'm sorry, it's Marvin. But I talk to Carvin a lot, rest in peace Ronald, and of course Michael too. Right on, man. But yeah, I always wanted to sing. I always wanted to sing. When I got into emceeing, the first emcee I remember hearing from Atlanta was Mojo. That before my time. Yeah, Mojo. And we talk now, and I got the privilege of keeping contact with him, man. And he's real cool. Kujo from Goody Mop actually has a record out with him and Shadi, two of our first- And that's Shadi I know. Our legend, yeah. He was way before Shadi, so we was kids when Mojo was out. We had a record called Let Mojo Handle It. Let Mojo Handle It. You know what I'm saying? Yo, so do you remember the Sans Souci? So these would be Transmute Live. You know, broadcast. I'm not, if I'm saying Souci, I think it was on- Hell nah. That was on Ashby. Yeah, it did. This was 82. I was two. Yeah, okay. So I was young, too, so we were right behind each other. But yeah, those were the first shows before the Fresh Party and stuff like that. But we'll get into that later. Yeah, man. As emceeing, how did you approach it different from your vocal ability? I never thought that I was a good emcee, to be totally honest. What? Yeah, no. I always considered myself to be a writer. So all of my first rhymes was like story raps, because I was really into Slick Rick. Who else did me like that? Kara S1, X-Clan, and shit like that. So I just wrote these little vignettes. Or little scripts, like playwrights. Okay. And that was my thing. And if anybody had the time or attention to listen, you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? I could do them. And KP's sitting over there. He's one of the first people to recognize me as an emcee. Right on. And that's when we're getting to the Dungeon Family part of the story. But I never thought I was a good emcee, because I didn't feel like I had a tone. But it turns out that I have a unique speaking voice, too. I've been told that. I've had people recognize me. Yeah. They recognize me. I'm talking in just whatever public place at the airport, sitting there or whatever, and somebody be like, yo, some white person, somebody just unassuming, be like, I knew I knew that voice. That's crazy, ain't it? Yeah, it's crazy. So growing up in Atlanta, you and I, we had accents, but I didn't think we, I thought we had to play in those voices. It just seemed like it was normal. Yeah, it seems like it was just normal. Yeah. It was when New York came on the scene that I thought they had an accent. When I went down. When I went down to New York, that's when people kind of, you know, again, made me aware of how unique our speech pattern and even the cadence of our conversation is. Right. But yeah, initially, I didn't think nothing of it. Yeah. And you mentioned Dungeon Family, man, which is a phenomenal segue. Now, I know, you know, anybody from Atlanta, around Atlanta, anybody from the South, anybody even tapped in to our culture for. Many generations now already know who the Dungeon Family is. Yes. But for the slow people in the back, can you please explain who the Dungeon Family is and how they came about? Dungeon Family established in Atlanta, Georgia, is a large collective comprised of, you know, many poets, perspectives, hustlers, you know what I'm saying, like musicians. You know, et cetera. And I don't know how we all found each other besides something very faithful. And that's contingent upon what actually did transpire over time, and now we speak about it in retrospect. But again, it was just one of those things where I knew the guys from Goody Mob. They were upperclassmen. They graduated with my sister. I would hear campaigns about them in the street doing their music independently, and I was up and coming. My mans, Killer B and J.D., hustlers out the neighborhood that was trying to get into management, they overheard me rhyming at someone's house. OG Glenn Cook is back home now. Welcome home, King. Okay, now. Welcome home. But he used to always throw these parties. If you wasn't doing nothing, you could just pull up over his house and bring a case of beer with you. You feel me? It would just be a party over there. I remember one time. I was battling. Well, it wasn't even really a battle, but it was like a cipher. I recognized Cujo from some of the yearbook pictures and stuff like that. People don't know, man. Cujo was like most attractive in high school. So he was voted most attractive. So, you know, shit like that. So my sister loved Cujo. Ooh, Willie Knight. So I recognized him. He said Willie Knight. That's his name. Willie Knight. Willie Knight time. That sounds like a motherfucker. That sounds like the phone. For sure, yeah. We got to give OG Cujo some propers on that, man. But anyway, he was the first one that we. You know, Cujo, he grew up two streets over from me. Really? Church Street. Okay, yeah, for sure. He grew up on Church Street. I'm center here. It's like two streets down. Okay, then. Mm-hmm. You know, I used to live over there on Old Knoll. Yeah, Old Knoll. I think Ken told me. Yeah, me and Ken lived together. What's up with PK? Yeah, right on. What's up with PK? So, you know, the West Side experience is going to offer any human being a variety of flavor. You're going to have flavor, man. You're just going to have to have it, man. Anybody that grew up on the West Side. I'm going to say Atlanta, period. But I'm going to be specifically speaking about the West Side just because it's just an undeniable energy that comes. And it radiates from that place. Thanks. Where was the first place that you had to go where you could feed, you know, you could radiate your energy and you can feed off of other people's energy radiating? In a performance kind of capacity? Yeah, legit. I mean, you ain't even got to be performing. It could be a pool hall. It could be the skating rink. It could be, you know what I mean? Okay, so for me, it was a Westmountain record. It was a recreation center. Okay. And we called it The Wreck for short. So this was like, this was like checkpoint, you know what I mean? Like, you know, for everybody, West Side, Southwest Side, you know what I mean? To come and congregate either, you know, whoever was cutting school. So you could always catch somebody parked up there, you know, matching or joining something in the park or something like that. Or after the big high school rivalries after, let's say, Mays High. And Dub, you know, so they'd be like, let's meet at The Wreck. And it'd be a big, a big brawl. So as a kid, my life was kind of like the movie Fresh, you know that movie? So like, I was just able to kind of. Play jazz? I never did play jazz. Like, but in terms of just. You had a stupid dope move. Yeah, stupid dope move. Okay. Okay. Yeah, no, so, but my man, Kobe Connelly and James Connelly, their house was directly across the street from The Wreck. So it's been a couple of nights. We just sit there and just watch the whole brawl go down. So a lot of my upbringing kind of like reminds me of movies like The Outsiders and stuff like that. So it was innocent for the time. No gunplay and shit like that yet. Man, you know, thinking about the Dungeon Family and the part that it played in Atlanta's foundational structure. In the room, I already understand that history was being made. I think some people did more than others. You know, when I first came to the dungeon, all I wanted to do was belong, you know what I mean? And be an asset to it, you know what I mean? Like, I wanted to defend it because I know that this group of guys had some really great intentions, you know what I mean? And so there's a. A vulnerability, you know what I'm saying? Like about striving and trying to accomplish a goal, you know what I mean? Like amidst all these distractions and monkey wrenches and potholes and snares and shit like that being thrown at you, you know what I mean? And then just trying to survive, trying to eat, literally trying to survive in the process, you know what I mean? And endure. So as a crew, I was like, I know I can rap, you know what I'm saying? Like I know they've acknowledged. They've acknowledged me as such, and I can do this, I can do that. But I want to defend us, you know what I mean? So before anything. And I feel you. Yeah, exactly. So I was like, for Big and Dre, for an example, I'm like, anybody fuck with them, you know what I'm saying? You feel me? Like anybody fuck with any of us, you know what I mean? Like that's got to be my department to deal with, you know what I'm saying? You feel me? So it's. Secretary of Defense. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And KP can attest to that, you know what I'm saying? You feel me? But it just comes from love, you know what I'm saying? That's right. It just comes from a lot of love and a lot of loss and a lot of longing, because they were the brothers, they were the family that I didn't have growing up, you know what I'm saying? You know, man, I feel like, you know, I'm honorary, unofficial, you know what I'm saying, Dungeon Family, because y'all were the first to embrace me and offer me a chance to stand in some light that wasn't mine. For sure. You guys were the first to take me on the road, put me on the bus, let me freestyle, you know what I'm saying, with Big Les and Joe Clapp. We were in Washington. Actually, no, we was in L.A. I always say Washington. Because they from Washington, so usually they would be him and Washington. That's right. They was remote with us, that's right. They came to L.A. for the Source Awards, so yeah, we was in L.A. I know this because that was my very first trip. I heard you mention it a couple of times, and I was like, yeah, that's a true story. Yeah. And y'all didn't have to do that, bruh. Y'all didn't have to do that. And I'm talking about, I was coming from out of nowhere. And y'all were already on top. Y'all was really dominating shit at the time. Tell me, what was it that made you or you all say, hey man, we need to rock with him? Well, for me, it was simple. Like you had on a pair of Cartier's, similar to the ones you're wearing now. You feel me? I said, okay. I said, okay. He's got taste. Like, you feel me? Like, you feel me? Because that was a, you know what I mean? That was a rarity at that time. Niggas wasn't getting that kind of money. Made to pay $400, $500, $700 for some glasses. You feel me? But I said, I knew about it. You had them on. I said, okay, let me hear them out. And then KP was standing with you, too. So I'm like, yeah, I trust him, too. Yeah. That's what's up, man. And I truly do. I really, I can't thank y'all enough, man. And you spit. You spit. Man. Well, you know what I'm saying? I do my best, bro. I mean, because y'all, just like you said at a time, before you had your voice or knew who your voice was, knew what your voice was, you compared it to your favorite. For sure. Y'all were my favorites. When I was just, you know, writing in my notebooks, you know, I would compare. I would compare my shit to your verse on Get Up, Get Out, Get Some. I'd compare my shit to Big Verse, Big Verse on ATLNs, Me and You, Yo Mama, you know what I mean? I'd compare myself to 3,000 verse, Southern Player Listed. Like, I would just compare, I'd compare myself to Tupac. Like, I just had rap battles. I'd press play and listen to y'all shit. Then I'd stop and I'd do my shit. And if my interest level declined when I was doing my shit, then I'd erase that shit and I'd go back at it. So, you guys set my bar of acceptance for my own performance. Y'all kind of like, okay, if this shit ain't here, then that shit, I don't want to hear it. I think that's always been the general practice of those who, you know, who come from Atlanta, you know, is to. Be inclusive and acknowledge, you know what I'm saying? Like, what was, you know, what was good, what was great, what had potential, you know what I'm saying? You feel me? Like, and we wanted everything that was to come after us to be an extension of, you know what I mean? Like, to be inspired to go in either direction you so desire, you know what I'm saying? Because we could cover really all of the grounds, you know, we could run the gamut. I mean, so that was what a lot of the campaign and what the pageantry, the costuming and all that kind of stuff, you know what I mean? Like, we was granted, you know what I mean? Like, that gift from our fairy godfather, you know what I'm saying? Like, George Clinton, you know what I'm saying? Like, he told us that, you know what I'm saying, it was all right. He showed us it was all right. was all right you know what I mean and so I felt like we could be you know the next incarnation of a thing you know what I'm saying like because um to talk to him and to really decode the lyric he was really you know what I'm saying like putting some some messaging in there you know what I mean like that too but to talk to him like he was a very sensible you know what I'm saying like elder statesman so he was a pleasure to be around and to talk to you know what I mean like uh but then when they when they got to uh got to go and get going you know I mean open up the windows or something that's right hey listen let me ask you this uh do a lot do people know that you were almost the third member of outcast not if they ain't heard greg street show shouts out to big zach man he actually shouted that out um in the greg streets intro that's been running for the last 20 years man silo it was so outcast were gonna be three members and you were gonna be the third member how did that work okay so and this was only just a flash in the pan suggestion we they you know put it in the pot and um what what brought the suggestion about because um I think things were gelling I think of course uh you know outcast had come to the table as themselves um you know and I still remember the first time I went over to the dungeon um and I remember the first time I went over to the dungeon um and I remember the first time I went over to the dungeon um they had gone out to get some um they had gone out to get some food or something like that it was it was rico food or something like that it was it was rico food or something like that it was it was rico uh lonely or rica no lonely or rico man big uh lonely or rica no lonely or rico man big uh lonely or rica no lonely or rico man big brother man you sound like godfather brother man you sound like godfather brother man you sound like godfather um I think they want to get some food from um I think they want to get some food from um I think they want to get some food from somewhere so I went on the run go get somewhere so I went on the run go get somewhere so I went on the run go get some swishes or anything like that some swishes or anything like that that something like that swissa sweets you know i mean so they come back in the door he's like jay was like that's my nigga silo man like with the story of rap and i remember like it was verbatim man because it's like it just burned in my soul just that day to be to me like to and first to come back to them because i remember we was going to school at frank mclaren alternative school in college park on main street both me and jay yeah to the open campus absolutely it was open campus then you know so both me and jay was dropped time yeah both me and jay was dropouts so you feel me um um i finally was just given my my honorary diploma on my 50th birthday last year that's all right but i never went back to school neither did he i think he did get his gd though okay but we had known each other since elementary school a lot of people don't know that either we went to uh we were part of the um the urban what they call that the black busing system so they were coming to get urban use and busting us out to the suburbs go to school yeah okay so um i was living minority to the majority yeah the official name of that for sure and i was living in um king's ridge at the time okay king reed you feel me real real real man you know um and so yeah that's that's what we met initially and i gotta shout out they won't let me in there they won't let me in there because dr jones would uh i was going to bunch middle school yeah and then um dr jones from bunch he hated me what he ain't like dr jones did not like me so but then they transferred him over to there and that when i was supposed to go he was like no man there were like man listen man there was a school that was the most like the nightclub man man everybody all the other schools wanted to just go and hang out at there oh for sure there was a it was a playground because they kind of had that um i don't know what you would call the energy no man it just felt like the mall man yeah they colors was red and black the the pampas yeah you know what i'm saying so yeah falcons color yeah exactly that's how that's how i've been feeling like this exactly yeah you know um but yeah definitely grew up right next door to theral and all of that um and um so yeah we went to elementary school together man so we've been brothers and friends for a long long long time and to answer your question man uh it was just an idea you know me um because we we were all the same age me big and and dray are the youngest out of the dungeon family all of us had 50 and i'm saying like you know guys are you know a few years older and and all of that but that's that's probably what made sense about it then but just my honest opinion now it would have been too much and so you feel like it would have been it would have been like three wheels you know i'm saying you feel me um yeah everybody hear me right now um yeah that would have been overkill this is like that's no i can't it's an album i would have loved to have heard we got but and we had a lot of people that were like oh my god i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know we had a really good chemistry too so whether whether it was get up get out whether it was um slum beautiful whether it was uh in due time you know any of those any of those great records is it always seemed as if it could have been a natural thing to do man it's wonderful and shouts out to big and dray absolutely still wait still waiting on on whenever they feel like you know getting getting it getting into it man with another out care l i'm gonna speak it into existence claim that i feel like at least one more coming um now let's talk about let's talk about uh your your your brothers uh in arms of goody mob and your first album classic yeah instant classic it was classic immediately now i'm gonna tell you i knew it was classic when it first came out soul food um i stood in line at greenbrow mall peppermint music at y'all insta bro yeah and bought y'all and bought y'all album and got it signed that's hard as hell yeah that's hard to say it's probably the only insta line i've ever stood in line for too we did that one at peppermint in greenbrow mall i think we did still standing at super sound over there with yeah man i think i was at both good shit yeah man so um soul food was was such an important album because it really felt like nourishment for the spirit yes um how in the in the production of this album how did all members go into it like ensuring the outcome would feel as such that's a good question again um i feel like the hierarchy of done family ray murray sleepy brown um guard rico wade rest in peace they had a foresight um and a sense um you know of how to structure you know they knew about like again okay let me give you a perfect example um get up get out we spoke on that that song was almost like eight minutes long you know what i'm saying so me personally we i didn't have any con concept of time and structure structure radio format none of that stuff so um you do have those those individuals who are hardwired to be executives or executive producers and that's exactly what they were so like you know um what you hear from us as mcs um and as artists it's just the raw footage of a thing so like you know but then they they give oscars for editing as well that's right you know what i'm saying so you know we one thing we could do is is keep it raw you know what i mean and that's what i think what was what was charming uh and effective about goody mob as it compares to outcast coming out of the same collective uh outcast was almost ideal i mean like you know it was um perfect right you know i'm saying like perfect format um uh for the embarkment i'm saying like of establishing it in a task yeah and we needed that so you feel me like and that was that cross and that weight and that pressure was was put on their shoulders to accomplish that feat for us all you know what i'm saying and then we could come in you know like with some of the social conscience and other other um traditions southern traditions that are rooted you know i'm saying in the city i will i will i will most famed and celebrated civil rights activists are right from here that's right i'm saying so you know we wanted to carry on in that legacy as well so we weren't intentional about you know saying like those few things that make up of the whole thing did the risk that y'all were taking at the time feel risky then the musical risks the the controversial statements that were being made in regular everything that y'all said on self-therapy that shit came to me yes so i'll tell you for the most part for me it felt like an out-of-body experience i felt like i was being um my my steps were being taken and you know what i'm saying like if if i could have had an opinion about it then uh i would have said that you know we were more of a contradiction so more hypocrisy almost because we were not those people in real life you know what i'm saying like like like what you tell me y'all would eat pig feet like a white woman i ain't gonna go that far you know what i'm saying like man buy me them skins and you know like me and my me and my love european princess would like to enjoy no some hog mobs please no so not not to say we weren't becoming those people right so like we were right in that um mid-metamorphosis as you say there you go we were cocooned at the dungeon and we was going to we were to become something beautiful them something like you know um so no like uh and we were still living and surviving some of us was working jobs and so some of us had committed ourselves to the craft um some of us are straddled fence doing you know street shit you know how they go you know how they go you know what i mean so um it was just these different variables you know i mean like and we just braved all of those elements and you know we wanted something better you know i wanted to do i know i can say i wanted to do things that musically that we could grow old with you know like i had always planned to have uh an illustrious career if you will i mean like so yeah if this is could be a great place to start i'm saying you feel me right well i think we should finish the way we started yeah man i think i've heard i have heard from from close close members uh that that that the dungeon at its origins was a clubhouse for outlaws for sure for sure a play a safe place for outlaws to be creative that's a that's a that's a fact and that's a bar yeah i agree i'm one of them i'm one of them i found some place to hide i found shelter yeah it was shelter man she was the boys club i appreciate y'all i appreciate y'all contribution uh and thank you for everything that you've done now shifting gears for a minute because outside of dungeon family goody mob outcast uh organized outside of that you have an entirely uh another universe that that that you that you have have been the architect of with narls barkley how did this uh come about well I could always i could always do it didn't sound like i had always enjoyed other musics besides rap and r b you know what i mean um i grew up in the mtv era uh i uh i was uh affected positively by those you know those events you know saying uh and those icons at that time whether it was you know duran duran whether it was you know quiet riot death effort you know something like culture club you know what i mean um i got into that you know what i'm saying um and there was a time when that's kind of really all that we had so you you had records that kind of like they were country crossover uh and now they've become uh global and world renown but it seems like it has some roots in hip-hop like that's right one record that that is um the embodiment sonically is jack and diane by john cougar mellon camp don't you know that record i do not um little diddy by jack and diane two american kids growing up in the heartland yeah i think i do know right now yeah yeah i know the melody so it sounded like a hip-hop record when the clap was playing i was like yeah i know the melody so it sounded like a hip-hop record when the clap was playing yeah i know the melody so it sounded like a hip-hop record when the clap was playing yeah i know the melody so it sounded like a hip-hop record when the clap the clap okay yeah okay so to me the clap was always everybody in unison let me like the clap didn't have a color to it and so like it had inclusion that's right you know as a sound so if that every time that clap hit it may be like it's like the word inclusion flash across my mind everybody involved i remember y'all did that i think uh y'all y'all y'all y'all uh y'all y'all lowered the beat down to just to clap and andre finish thought process out process yeah and it's like we were they were all like we all rallied around him like go you know something like we changed them on we ruled them on like go you know what i'm saying like and um everybody was uh really excited you know i mean like if ever he wanted to do something and volunteered himself to do something so you know he heard that and felt compelled like hey man i got something for this you know i mean and back then we were recording the two-inch tape and that's about that was the length of the track so we had to keep him going you know i'm saying like you know so that's how that came that's hard man but yeah just to answer your question man um i always thought of myself as a writer and a musician you know what i mean um and i never would have imagined that my musical career would be would be become a hybrid theory to showcase all of those you know what i mean those variables you know i mean like uh a variable compound you know like in you know which is the one person i'm saying like that embodies them all and like but i i wanted to be the best that i could i'm saying i wanted to be honest you know what i mean so what you just hear is honesty and obedience i mean like i just follow the instinct you know i mean no matter how bizarre or unique or you know it it seems you know i mean like i i trust i trust it because it's worked for me and so i'm like you you see the end result of that trust and that obedience like you mean like i've been able to do some amazing things you know i mean like um some almost impossible things so maybe maybe someone would even would not have even fathomed them themselves like but now they're birthed and they belong i'm saying like you know um they're counted and they are a continuance of the work of dungeon family i mean like that home front that school for exceptional youth i'm saying like rico wave being our doctor xavier that's a great that's a great analogy yeah um now but but but what about the the relationship with danger mouse like because you could have done this with anyone not to say it would have had the same result right but the your your success has given you the the the options to align with many different you know super producers yeah what made danger mouse the clear choice i tried to make a long story short i uh i crossed his path in athens georgia we the dungeon family were doing a show at uga and i'm not sure what it was and i remember just start pouring down raining and it was an outside show on their football field and we had to cut the show short i bought my way back to the bus this image like this person figment i mean like you know uh walks up on me with the have you seen this movie the unbreakables with uh bruce willis and sam jackson the rain thing that he's wearing he he had on one of those it's like a rain jacket yeah and it was stormy raining and like i couldn't see his face but a hand appears he gives me a cd damn and uh at the time sounds like the reaper man yeah for for sure it was it was kind of it was you know i was a little annoyed by it because it was it's raining you know what i'm saying we're trying to get out of the way so to be totally honest i didn't pay i didn't pay no attention i never listened to it and they know who the it was oh so you didn't know that with him no okay so then my man i don't know what it was about athens georgia is a special place for me too because when i did my solo career my my first solo shows were in athens georgia a young up-and-coming promoter named trey trey's a cool white boy let me say you feel me um his parents you know owned car lots in athens georgia and he wanted to get in promotion because he just loved hip-hop and she liked that all of music right so he had a love for me reached out to me and did my first couple of shows there that's hard so yeah silo's uh solo career uh happens to house one of the dopest records that i ever did on collaboration me silo and jazzy faye called you the one that's a fact that's a bad that's a fact that was a bad that's a we should have shot a video we damn sure and i'm gonna tell people why we didn't too why because like um um the face fold folded and we ended up taking that uh oh no arister folded and then they moved my deal over to jive records and they and that was it was my last album on arister and they were like do you want to continue with this album do you want to start on fresh yeah or you can or you can if it was streaming at the time yeah we're gonna kill them man we the man that was a bad y'all should go look it up i was going back to the memphis area a couple of weeks a couple of weekends man they was loving that record dog oh they reckon and you were such a i i felt a little too early though man because you came you know i got it did it first straight down no no hiccups one take hey man it was always such an honor and a privilege man to just work alongside y'all i don't think we've done enough work together with the relationship that we had and you know what i mean i just don't think we've done enough work together but i know y'all got y'all going on i'm steady just trying to live up to the cosine y'all co-signed me early you did that so i'm just you know i'm steady grinding pushing pulling you know what i'm saying lifting uh just trying to make sure that everybody else knows that when y'all said he the one you were right yeah i mean for sure you did that and then some and i'm i'm so proud of you man i appreciate you i appreciate you likewise and i i get such pleasure just you know reminiscing on those times that that evening that particular uh um recording session and you were just so stylish and so cool and so confident i said man like i like him i like lot though you know i'm saying man kill that do you recall because i'm telling this story i'm working on my last album now and i'm telling the story uh about when i put everybody to the side and asked how y'all feel about me calling myself the king of the south right uh do you recall that conversation of course when what do you what do you think of what did you think then uh and and and what have you thought on the ride i think you have represented yourself you know i'm saying uh remarkably and even up until present day in these current events you know i'm saying you feel like i still am proud of you i mean like you feel me like and we won't get into it if you don't wish to let's say you feel me like you know i'm just saying for those for those that know you know you don't say you feel me like and it's of no consequence it has nothing to do with the opposite end let's say you feel me like it just has to do with your resilience and i'm saying like heart and soul you know i mean like and strength you know i mean like so i like it come from y'all i know you know i'm saying like and i'm just saying yeah and i'm like officially if you don't mind me saying i'm like that's one of mine that's that's how i feel about it you're right and to be honest with you because if there was no one else like for instance like if man like if i didn't have a celo a kp big dre timo crew joe if i didn't have a doug or searod uh og clay lonely og clay uh a big feel a cap if i didn't have nobody to make proud or to fight for i wouldn't fight as hard for sure you feel what i'm saying if it was just me i could probably let some go all right man you know you know but i'm not feeling oh hell no you ain't feeling no no i ain't going for that not not on my watch not to let the people who believed in me look stupid absolutely i can't go for that one i can't i just can't go for that one and listen so that's it and that's all so even even the the the class that it took you know what i mean like for you to sit down with each and every one of you and i'm for you to sit down with each and every one from from scarface on down and on back up i mean um to have that when they go ahead that conversation i thought i thought that that was tasteful i thought that was respectful and respectable you know i'm saying you feel me like and even in that you know um that gesturing i said okay that's strong in terms of character i mean like you know um and okay you know what i'm saying like you know i couldn't i i couldn't have and i wouldn't have because i'd never considered myself to be the king right you know what i mean like and i had thought about this if this was to come up in conversation i'm like man who would i have wanted to be you know and i'm like damn like so i'd be feeling like i want to be a character like gandalf you know like a yellow the watcher i just wanted to just watch you know what i'm saying like you feel me like you know man i want to have rafiki yeah i want to have some goddamn some some some some wisdoms and some parables those are called griot yeah griot um i learned that word from um a group i used to with from the west coast freestyle fellowship the name of that album was inner city griot you know so you feel me um i don't know so yeah a little hip-hop uh history for y'all man and i never really you know even when i was having my hardships where i was you know i don't want to say defending i say earning when i was earning my crown you know or you know having it be challenged overcoming the challenges that are so that were associated with the crown i never went around saying hey man they didn't already said it's cool i just went on and handled it the way we handled it and i think you know and probably probably the last four five years is the first time that i actually just kind of let people know that i already kind of got approval before i just jumped jumped all the way out there you said that the one time in the record and that was it you know something like that information it's like you know it's a perpetual motion always play the record there it is yeah yeah music is the best way to deal with absolutely i'm way more poignant in my in my in my in my art than i am in conversation me too you know i curse too much i don't look man i had to i had to learn how to communicate yeah you know man i don't have no formal education about you know that's what i i kind of think i learned how to communicate too i did it going to court you know what i'm saying talking my way into a bond and and you know i mean that's real though or talking my way like you know my probation i was saying why should i not violate you well first of all man that's that on-the-job training right there yeah man no man you don't say you learn as you go you know what i mean um um to the point of where like uh the the time that i spent in in england you know i remember doing some some radio uh interviews there and they were like see where you're from again and something like that and i was like i'm from atlanta yeah oh you're the first one i heard put the t on now but that but i had to do it because what another peeve of mine is to have to repeat myself you know what i'm saying like and they weren't understanding me and i said let me straight my up but that's that's what that's what tip came from for sure every time i say tip you know what i'm saying people are like chuck yeah what are you saying yeah you know so that's how you know tip which later became ti and i got i i took a fix to it you feel me like when can't you hear yeah um i said well i'm i said we're in england man so therefore i'm speaking proper english you know what i mean yeah the queen's language yeah exactly so you know that's what that was but other than that man once i get comfortable you might not be able to understand the thing i'm saying i sound like james brown after a while you know uh so and and i'm i'm happy to be doing this with you too man because you know i had grown uncomfortable man with even doing press and any of that well i don't i don't i don't enjoy it much either man but what i have found uh is that with you know the internet and with such how can i say let's just call it running gun journalism being done right um it's so much access to ignorance out there absolutely it must be balanced with with some logic yeah yeah and some sense i agree you know i mean i mean it ain't got to be you know 100 square green and all the way black and white how you how your teachers serve it to you but you need some knowledge man we all do you know what i'm saying i still need knowledge and most of you is in far more need than i am so that's why i think it's important and for conversations like these because you know people might just be watching this to entertain themselves but when they step away from it they can't help but take something with them agreed you know what i mean um as a songwriter which you said that that's how you started in your own mind do your songs usually start with lyrics melody or emotion um all three all three all three um i just found it recently when i was going through the storage and i was looking into some some boxes old cds pictures and shit like that and i found an old notebook of mine so when you say lyric i might just have a idea for a song so like it just might be the title for it so i remember i had started a new notebook and i never end up writing these songs i'll probably end up freestyling them later or rolling down somewhere else a spur of the moment without it didn't have the notebook on me but there was a time we carried our notebooks it was like a real studious approach you know it was a formal approach i mean like because we were you know in the you know acquiring formal musical education it's like a professor's notes absolutely absolutely you know what i'm saying so um yeah so it will it will come from lyrics so sometimes i might i hear a track and then i've gotten really good at just getting in front of the mic and just you know letting it flow and letting it let it go so i'm better with that i'm not as good at that as i used to be see i can't tell i'm not a good idea i mean no no it'll come now it'll come it's like you know you keep turning that cadillac yeah i'm saying once you get there you get it going for sure you know what i'm saying once you get it going it's gonna ride that's a fact but it just don't it don't just it ain't like just just the first turn no more it used to be first turn i would act you know um you know i mean now it's like you got come on baby come on baby oh yeah yeah and um now i think you know it just and another thing though another thing early on and it could be a reason why it takes me a little longer early on i were okay with whatever the i said you feel i'm saying I just say some wild shit, and I just be all right with it. Now I'm a bit more conscious of the words I choose. For sure. And the manner in which I choose to present them. Because I say this jokingly, but dead serious. In my stand-up, I was like, man, you know, I appreciate my white fan, but trap music was for us. And had I known so many white people were listening, I'd have chose my words more carefully. Because ain't nothing like performing in front of 60,000 white folk. And money, ho, cars, and clothes. Real shit. That's all my, what did you say? Because that ain't all we know. Exactly. So performing that amongst us feels one way. But performing it outside of the community, it doesn't feel the same. And I'm a bit more. Mindful and knowledgeable of that now, you know what I'm saying? Hold on, hold on, hold on, let me go back, let me go back. Now I can change that word right there. That ain't got to be there, you know what I'm saying? Absolutely, man. Sometimes we can be culturally biased into ourselves, you know what I'm saying? You feel me? Like, you know, colorblind, you know, even worse. And, you know, but music business, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, that's another language. So we got to be bilingual, you know what I'm saying? Business is a whole other language. Now, now, now. Now, your second group, Nas Barkley, is that in any way paying homage to Charles Barkley? Okay, so let me, Brian Burton, Danger Mouse, producer of Nas Barkley, my partner in crime. He's from Atlanta. He went to Redan, so he's an Eastsider. Eastsider. And I just want people to know. I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Yeah, he's from Atlanta. That's hard. So I know I didn't get a chance to finish telling you about how we met. But my man Trey. You told me you threw a CD. I threw a CD away. You told me you threw a CD like they did my boy on Goddamn Hustle and Flow. Yeah. Like they did O.D. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Threw a CD, man. DJ the hell out of this old man. Please tell me that shit fell out your pocket, man. Okay. Yo, I just had the pleasure of sitting and talking. I just had the pleasure of sitting and talking. I flew a flight with Terrence the other day, man. Man, hey, he is a brilliant individual. That's the word I was just about to use to describe him, man. Brilliant. Man, that nigga's so goddamn smart. He's too smart to be an entertainer. For sure. I impressed him, though, because I knew a lot of his work and I was able to quote him. You do astrophysics? No, man, but I saw his thesis, you know what I mean? I forgot what university he was at when he was speaking. Okay. And I was like, wow. I was totally impressed. I'd love to have you on the show, by the way. Yeah, I'm totally impressed. He's a good guy, for sure. And solid, too. Super solid. So, long story short, my man Trey, he said, I want to hook you up with a friend of mine. So, it ends up being Dangerous. He said, we met one time. He said, you probably didn't listen to the CD, man. So, he knew the whole situation. Okay. I said, you right. So, he said, but. He said, but. That little nigga going to get it to you. For sure. Man, I ain't listening to shit. He said, so. He was like, man, I want you to get on the record. So, he was working with another artist named Gemini. He called himself Danger Monster Gemini. They had a record. So, I did a remix to a song for him called What You're Sitting On. And then, you know, we concluded that session by him asking, hey, man, before you go, do you mind if I play you a couple of open tracks? And I was like, cool. He played me about four or five, six things, which, you know, a few of them ended up becoming Saint Elsewhere, the Nas Barkley debut album. So, I was. It reminded me of the controlled chaos, you know what I mean? Like, you know, within myself. Like, you know, because I think as artists, you know, we've always been artists. We just. You know, we haven't always had the outlet. Like, the construct. You know? So, you're going to either do one or two things. You're going to either explode or implode. You feel me? So, I had these other things I wanted to address, you know, and express. And these were. I felt like this was right. So, I've always been my own. I had a sense of an account for my A&R. And I knew what I really liked. I'm like, I really like this. Right. As unique and strange and one of a kind as it is, I never heard nothing quite like it. Right. So, I didn't really know what to compare it to. So, but anyway. So, I went in with him. We went in on a shoestring budget. We did Nas Barkley, Saint Elsewhere, Saint Elsewhere out of pocket. And he was coming on the scene. He put out a mixtape called The Grey Album. And it was a mashup between The Beatles. I remember that. And The Black Album. And The Black Album, yes. The White Album and The Black Album, right? I remember that. And me being a songwriter, I had just also written and produced Don't Ya for the Pussycat Dolls. So, people that know that. I didn't know you wrote that. I did. I want to be able to say that on your platform, too. So, you wrote Don't Ya for the Pussycat Dolls. Well, remember, this was. So, around this time, this was going back to the situation we were talking about. Folded. My deal was at Jive. I had the option to either continue working that project, start a new one, or walk away. And I said, I think I'm going to try free agency for a little while. And then when Don't Ya happened for me, I said, well, shit. I think I'll just write. I'll just write and produce. Any more songs? I did a song called Tony that people may know for Solange, my first solo album. And I co-wrote another record on that album called Sandcastle Disco. Got it. I wrote for Jennifer. I'm losing. What's her name, man? From Dreamgirls. Dreamgirls. You're talking about Jennifer Hudson? Jennifer Hudson, yeah. Sorry, Queen. I'm sorry. But I wrote a song for her called All Dressed in Love for the Sex in the City soundtrack. I remember All Dressed in Love. All Dressed Up in Love. Yeah. Okay. And I wrote a song called. That's a romantic song. Yeah. I wrote a song called Pretty Please for Estelle. You know, so I was doing a bunch of writing. Dope. And I figured that's what I would do before I wanted to get back in the artist bag. Because, again, I could kind of take it and leave it, to be honest. You too. I don't got to be famous. I feel the same way. But I don't want to be, you know what I'm saying, like, complicit, you know what I'm saying, like, with a talent and with a gift and with a purpose, you know what I'm saying? You want to be able to use all your gifts. I do. I do. I feel the same way. I just. Oh. I hate to jump around as much as I do, but. Don't worry about it. You just reminded me of Jazzy Jeff saying. I just recently heard him say on a post to die empty. If you're an artist, you know what I'm saying? Like, you got things that you're going to try to sell that you think are sellable or viable, you know, that you want to give away or things that you want to try to release, you know, contingent upon, you know, whatever platform or whatever. Project that's associated with. He said, but get all of that shit out. Get it out. Get it out. So, I'm on it. But anyway, so, I'm on that. I live by that. That's one of the things that I say, okay, I fuck with that. That's how I feel, too. So, even if I got to give it away, you know, it could be, you know, some shit that I don't have no plans for. I just want people to hear stuff that, you know what I'm saying, that exists. Let's talk a little bit about genre bending. Okay. Narrows didn't fit. Neatly into hip-hop, soul, pop, none of the pre-existing genres that existed at the time. How would you describe the Norris Barkley sound? Being that it was able to divide, defy genre, you know, I don't really feel like it fits anywhere but in one class. And that would just be all. Because it's a hybrid theory of things that, you know, you hear in passing, things that stick to the bone, things that, you know, touch a soul, you know what I mean? And also, you know, as contributors, we also want to put some paint where it ain't and do something that hasn't necessarily been done. And so, I believe that, you know, fate rewards faith. And if I have an inclination. If I have an inclination to do something, you know, that's probability right there. That's right. Yeah. Because, or else, I'm like, I would not have fathomed it, even as a notion. Yes. So, I'm like, let me try it. Fate favors the brave. Absolutely. And, you know, we can all deal with these odds, man, the win, lose, or draw. Like, I'm always willing to win, lose, or draw by art. That's real. Yeah. I heard Crazy almost didn't make it on the album. What changed your mind? And why was it not a. Instant consideration. So, to go back, he was having that success with the Grey album. I was having writer's success. And he had also just produced Feel Good Inc. for the Gorillaz. Okay. So, we did this record out of pocket. And, you know, again, nothing to compare it to. So, I really didn't think much of it. We were just exercising. That's it. You feel me? Or experimenting. And I'm down to do that. Um, I was also working on an album at the same time with Jazzy Faye called Happy Hour that never came out I remember y'all great album shout out to Jazzy I know y'all still got them records we do I might want to hear some you got a hymn too it's hot man you know what I'm saying I know y'all niggas boogie and goddamn jerking like a you already know man we was popping man big love what they called it you know what I'm saying a lot of big loving going on but so with that the shit okay so we do Crazy and it was later in interviews when I heard Danger Mouse say okay we didn't really think much of Crazy he said because how I recorded it I just did it in one take and I'm like alright what else we got because we're just trying to be productive with the time you know what I mean so at the time it's not trying to create a hit it's about how many renderings can we make you know what I'm saying like for a day okay we got two or three three and a half okay that's cool let's go again tomorrow so anyway he said that he heard the record and out of the things we had done thus far it sounded more like a single or something significant but he didn't really know how to place it either so I think they may have misquoted it a little bit okay you know because this song gets leaked and it goes viral you know and this number one in Europe you know what I mean like for a while for seven weeks before we even do a deal you know what I mean so this was it's got a Guinness World Record for being the the first record first and only record to go to number one due to digital downloads alone so yeah it's just it's got another Guinness World Record for being played on the most radio formats that record was even played on talk radio damn so I don't know what it is about this record man you know what I'm saying honestly everybody accepts that they might be a little crazy for sure you know what I'm saying it says everything that everybody thinks about themselves at least once a day you know what I mean I agree with that you know what I'm saying like and that's what it was and so so no I think that record was always going to make it I don't know what we would have done without it maybe something else you know may have because a couple of records didn't make the cut at the end of the day because we couldn't clear samples and shit like that so we did a couple of records um in the mastering sessions because we got the got the the callback okay this record can't go so for example this record called Boogie Monster I did that in the mastering session for the album just kind of winged it real quick but that's another fan favorite that's brilliant multi-layered artistic expression I'm glad I could explain that what I want to do now I'm going to take a little pause in the discussion because you got your son with you I want to take some time and introduce him to the show cool while they set his mic up I'm going to step back for sure this is Expeditiously I am Tip T.I. Harry