SYSK Gets Weird Playlist: The Creepy Legacy of the Hotel Cecil

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The Hotel Cecil is probably best known as the site for the very sad death of Elisa Lam in 2013. Or maybe you know it as a setting in American Horror Story. It turns out that Elisa was just one in an unusually long, long line of deaths that took place in the Cecil, which seems to have had way more than its fair share of tragedy since it was built in 1924. I'll leave it to you to get to the bottom of what's up with the Hotel Cecil. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant over there, and. Jerry's hanging around in the sun here, lurking like an unseen spirit in a haunted hotel. And this is Stuff You Should Know. Yeah. Can we do a couple of quick announcements? Yeah, sure. Without singing that announcement song? Did we have an announcement song ever? Well, not us, but it, like, summer camp. Okay. You never did that? No. Yeah, well, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna sing it now, then. I kind of want to hear it now. No, no, no, no, no. Was it like, announcements, announcements, it's announcements time? Sort of, almost. Yeah, that's close enough. Trigger warning for this one, first announcement, because there's some grisly stuff in here. I guess that's all we need to say. Okay. And then also, we've been remiss in that we haven't mentioned the fact that there's a Stuff You Should Know board game out. Yeah, it's not grisly at all. No. No, it's very family-friendly, in fact. It's one of the highest honors that's ever been bestowed upon us in Stuff You Should Know, Chuck, because out of the blue, out of nowhere, about a year and a half ago, maybe? Yeah. Trivial Pursuit. The makers of Trivial Pursuit got in touch with us and said, we want to do a Stuff You Should Know Trivial Pursuit game. And they did. It wasn't a practical joke. The fine people at Hasbro, who, I gotta say, I mean, we've worked with a lot of outside companies for various projects, and boy, Hasbro is about as tight and buttoned up and awesome as any company we've ever worked with. Right, but also, like, super friendly, super fun, super nice. They're amazing. And not in, like, that creepy everybody's trying to be nice way. Like, they're all just, like, a genuinely pleasant group to work with. But yes, they are super buttoned up as well. Very rare. They make games. Yeah, they make games. They all seem like they make games for a living, which would mean that you have a pretty cool job. And developing the game with them was fun. And the questions are based on real Stuff You Should Know episodes. And it is not just Trivial Pursuit. It is co-branded, so it is not, do not expect to get the Trivial Pursuit game with the little pieces of pie. No, no. Just want to be clear. They said, we want to make up a brand new game for this. Brand new game. And they did. They made up a game. And this is the Stuff You Should Know Trivial Pursuit game. That's right. And you can get it wherever you get games. I recommend your local, little indie toy gaming store if they have it. But otherwise, we would love the support. You got a weirdo in your town who dresses up in wizard clothes and goes to work? Go buy your game there. Yeah, great Christmas gift, by the way. Yeah, for sure. Also, why just stop there? It's great for dads, grads, moms, proms, everything. I think it's like 20 bucks, right? Yeah, it's like really, really reasonably priced if you ask me. $20. 20 bucks. All right. $2.20 is in your wallet. You could buy our book and the game at the same time. So we did the TV show. We did a book. We do a podcast. Don't forget our YouTube series. Oh, sure. Who can? And now Chuck. And now the game. It's amazing. And now the Hotel Cecil. Yes, on to the show. So I'm glad you did that little trigger warning because there is some grizzly bears and grizzly stuff in here. But there's also, I think, some like fact settings, some fact straightening that, you know, we should do from the outset because one of the things that people who get into the Elisa Lam story, which we'll talk about in a little bit, quickly find that there are all manner of internet, urban legends and myths and conspiracy theories surrounding it. And, you know, I think that's a good thing. And I think that's a good thing. But none of those seem to be true. It's pretty annoying, actually. Yeah, it is very annoying. It's just so internet-y, too. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, this goes on a lot these days, but it seems like this one may be more so than even others because the bizarre nature of one part of this story and, I don't know, I found myself slightly annoyed. I am, too. In the exact same way that I'm annoyed by people who believe that the couple from The Conjuring were, like, you know, legit in real life. Right. Sure. But at the same time, it goes even further than that. I think I ran across a couple of articles that I really think struck home what's genuinely annoying and even disrespectful about that is that, like, Elisa Lam died because she had serious mental illness that had been diagnosed and she wasn't managing properly with the medications that she was on. And that happens a lot. And she died because of it. And so to say that she was, you know, possessed by evil spirits or that there were, you know, ghosts at the Cecil or even that she was murdered by an unknown suspect, it really disrespects the reality of the situation, which is, you know, sad enough as it is. But at the same time, Chuck, there's one more thing I have to caveat all this with. It's understandable the impulse to bring in, you know, restless spirits and, you know, just conspiracy theories. It's understandable in this particular situation because of the setting. Yeah. And I guess, you know, the first part of this show will be about the setting, which is the Hotel Cecil in downtown Los Angeles, which is not open right now. It may be open in the future. I think they were doing a, this thing was open in the 1920s during the height of the Depression. And it's a very large hotel, 19 floors. 700 rooms. And in the 1920s, it was sort of like a big deal for downtown Los Angeles. It was near a major rail station and it was kind of just what LA needed. And it was kind of fancy schmancy for the time. And over the years, you know, we'll talk a little bit about the downfall. But at the time of Elisa Lamb's stay, they had carved out three floors and built a separate lobby entrance to try and in an effort to rebrand this hotel as something called Stay on Main. And that they had three kind of floors that were a little bit redone cosmetically, a little bit of a nicer lobby that was, you know, sort of away from, you know, some of the situations that we're going to detail here in a second. But they did all share a common elevator and Elisa Lamb was staying in the Stay on Main section. Stayed on Main. But that's just to point out the fact that the hotel was going to eventually, supposedly undergo a massive renovation and that it was all sort of put on hold because of COVID. And I think now it's just being sat on with some of the long-term tenants that are protected to stay there. Yeah, I think there's like 30. But there's, like you said, 700 rooms. Sure. But you said it, that the Cecil Hotel, which is very much down at the heels now, started life in a, much different way where it was meant to be like a pretty nice hotel designed for middle-class travelers to LA. And that situation next to the rail station was a big draw for it. It was definitely a feather in its cap. And I saw it's in the Beaux-Arts style. It's not incredibly pretty from the outside, but the inside lobby is still pretty neat looking. Lots of terrazzo tile and columns, and there's fake Roman statuary and a big clock over the check-in desk. It's really pretty and a really 1920s original style still, although it's just kind of got this drab air that's kind of fallen over it over the years. Yeah. And that is in large part because, like you said, there are a lot of unhoned people there today. A lot back then, the area called Skid Row of downtown Los Angeles is kind of right there. I used to drive through that area sometimes when I lived in LA when we would go downtown to eat sushi or if we, you know, back then when I lived there, downtown was not as much of a destination unless you were going to Staples Center or something. But it's made a real resurgence since I've left and kind of trying to build downtown back up. But Skid Row is still an issue. And there, you know, like you said, there are people there that work with unhomed folks that are really trying their best to take care of the area. And I think that's a really big part of it. And the fact that that hotel is right there, just sort of looming large is a bit of a thumb in the eye. Yeah. And I get the impression that the area that's now Skid Row in Los Angeles had had at least since the 1880s kind of had an unusual reputation. It wasn't always, you know, for people down on their luck or anything like that. But, you know, it was a little more low rent than other parts of Los Angeles. Like there was just a mishmash of all sorts of different people. It seemed like alive. And the Cecil was kind of built at the outskirts of that between what would become Skid Row and then one of the nicest parts of L.A. at the time, Bunker Hill. And everything was hunky dory for the Cecil when it first opened in either 1924 or 1927, depending on who you ask. I could not confirm one way or the other because both dates have kind of taken off so much. But when the stock market crashed, that area that was just kind of colorful and a little bit low rent that it quickly became Skid Row as we understand it, beginning around the Great Depression. And not only did the proximity to Skid Row kind of like lower the Cecil star rating, when the tenants started, the hotel guests started to dry up, they had to lower their rates and start catering to people of less means. And so the hotel just kind of stopped taking care of itself little by little, starting around the Great Depression and continuing on through World War II. Yeah. And, you know, it kind of became a last resort kind of destination for people with addiction problems, people in the sex working industry. And, you know, it got that reputation and pretty soon got a reputation for all kinds of bad things happening there. There have been no less than 15 or 16. I mean, there's been a lot of bad things happening there. There's been a lot of bad things happening there. There's been a lot of bad things happening at the Cecil. Many people took their own lives there. Quite a few. I mean, if you read down the laundry list, it's like quite a few people ingested poison. Quite a few people jumped or maybe were pushed out windows. There have been some murders by gun. There have been murders by strangulation. There have been sexual assaults. This one sad case of a woman who gave birth to a baby. And was suffering from some sort of mental illness. Evidently thought her baby was born not alive and went to throw the baby out the window. And it turns out the baby was alive and then died. She was found not guilty. I think temporary insanity was the plea there. And just weird kind of tragic, awful things happening over the years time and time again at the Hotel Cecil. Yeah. Like another, frequently referred to incident was where a woman named Pauline Otten, she jumped from I think like the ninth or 10th floor to take her own life and landed on a guy who was a passerby who happened to just be walking unluckily beneath the Cecil at that moment on the sidewalk and was struck by Pauline. And they were both killed. And like that doesn't usually happen very often. Like that's a pretty remarkable thing. And I know that that like the most I could find was I think 18 incidents. But it seems like those are just ones that have been documented. There seems to be quite a bit more. There was a Netflix series, I think a four part series on this recently. And they interviewed a woman who had spent 10 years managing the Cecil. And she said that her name is Amy Price. She said that under her 10 year tenure, at least 80 people died that she knows of. And you can kind of imagine like, like, you know, you could find newspaper write ups from like the 20s and 30s and 40s when somebody jumps out a window and definitely when somebody jumps out a window and lands on a hapless pedestrian, like that's definitely going to be documented and make news. But if somebody on Skid Row overdoses and dies in this hotel, you know, is that going to be documented? So it's possible that there are a lot more people who have died. You have died at the Cecil under from unnatural causes over the years than than just those 17 or 18. Did you watch all of that documentary? No, I haven't seen it actually. Yeah. Okay. Have you seen it? Yeah, you know, I feel terrible because the director was is the great Joe Berlinger who actually had on movie crush in one of my favorite episodes where we kind of just talked about documentary filmmaking. He's a legend. He did the Paradise Lost film. He did the Paradise Lost series. He did that documentary on Metallica when they're all in therapy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's just he's just sort of the legend in the genre. And he's the Ted Bundy tapes recently. That's like, yeah, he did that. And then he directed the movie version with what's his face? Zac Efron. With who? I said Ryan Gosling. Oh, close. Another super handsome hunk. And that was a good movie. But this wasn't so great. I didn't love it. It felt kind of overlong. And a little salacious. And like, yeah, that's the impression I had from reading about it. Yeah. So I was disappointed. But Joe is a great filmmaker and a good guy. So I feel kind of bad. I think that's a fair caveat. A great filmmaker and a good guy can still make a hunk of poop. Yeah, it wasn't a hunk of poop. It was all right. Okay. But maybe let's take a break and I'll email Joe and tell him I'm sorry I had to time. All right. And we'll be right back. Moving days going great. Until the couch won't fit through the door. Tilted. It is tilted. So I post a task on AirTasker, set my budget, and choose a local tasker to help. Suddenly, the couch is inside the new place, the TV's mounted, and my drone has been retrieved from my neighbor's tree. Big tasks. Small tasks. Even the. Weird ones. Go to AirTasker.com or download the app. AirTasker. Get anything done. Warning. The following song has been rated dangerously catchy and may not be suitable for grown-ups. One, two, three, four. Knock, knock, knocking at the door. Five, six, who is it? It's Callie and Elliot. Lingo Kids. If it gets stuck in Mom's head, that's not our problem. Lingo Kids. Everything kids love. Download now for free. Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls. Join me, Colin Moore. Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find the Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts. So, okay, we're, so we're, the Cecil Hotel starts to get a pretty, pretty, not a great reputation, even around town. I read an article on kcet.org, which I guess is a PBS station in SoCal. And they said that local residents started to refer to the, the Cecil as the suicide. That was the name of the hotel for people around there. And it just, it just kind of like, it just kept going. Like every time, you know, maybe a couple of years would pass without some high profile death in the hotel. And then it would happen again. And it would just reaffirm everybody's ideas that there was, that place just wasn't quite right. Right. Right. Right. Right. There was something wrong. with it, almost like it was a magical Yeah, I mean, I think most major cities have had at least one of these hotels that just sort of is inexpensive, maybe in the wrong part of town, and has a reputation sometimes for lurid activities and checking in and not checking out. And this was L.A.'s, and L.A. for sure had more than one. Sure. It did not help their reputation in the 1980s when Richard Ramirez, a.k.a. the Night Stalker and one of the more sensational serial killers in American history, he stayed there for a while and lived there and apparently brought body parts back to the Cecil Hotel. I said Cecil like I'm British. Cecil Hotel from some of his victims to ingest there, and that's certainly like super creepy. Wait, did you say ingest? I hadn't come across that. Did he eat that victim's eyeballs? I think so. Wow. And other, he wasn't like, I don't think he was Dahmer level, but he was known to eat some body parts. He has a, there's a great documentary on his case too. It's super disturbing. Yeah, that's on Netflix as well, I think, if I'm not mistaken. But one thing I hadn't realized before that I ran across when I was researching some of his stuff was how, how he was caught is just absolutely triumphant. It was a mob of people in a neighborhood. In East L.A. Yeah, it was great. He was spotted. He saw himself on the front page of the newspaper and just instinctively started running, tried to carjack a woman, hit her, was seen hitting her. And an older man basically ran over and helped the woman, pulled Richard Ramirez out of his car. And the woman. Whose car it was, husband came over and started beating him. And he tried to get away and just an increasingly large mob chased him and would beat him and he'd get away some more and they'd chase him down and catch him again. And they finally pinned him down and waited for the cops to come. That's how he was caught. It's the best. It's so great. Caveat that, I'm not down with mob justice, but a group of people finding a serial killer on the street and like subduing him, I'm way okay with that. No, I totally am. In this particular instance, like I'm. I'm all fine with that, that kind of justice for sure. Yeah, it was a badge of honor for East L.A. because the entire city of Los Angeles was, I mean, it was a scary situation there in the 80s. Yeah, I can imagine. That's where Cheech Marin was born, according to that one song of his. That's right. Yeah. So the Night Stalker, he was not the only serial killer that checked in there. He actually inspired just a few years after he was convicted in, I think, 1989. I think like in 92, maybe 93, there was another serial killer named Jack Unterweger, who was Austrian, who had already been convicted, I think, when he was like 19 or early 20s of killing a woman by strangling her with her own bra and went to prison. He was very, very smart, very charming. He used this to basically get early parole. He convinced the public that he was. He actually reformed and apparently was held up as like a great example of how, you know, the prison system could rehabilitate someone. And it was just a complete false fabrication. He was basically posed as a true crime journalist, like he reinvented himself as that, went to L.A. and other parts. He went to Europe, traveled through Europe a little bit, too, but also ended up in L.A. to do research on his true crime novels. Went along on Rodney. Died along with the LAPD and ended up using that to scout victims. He killed three sex workers. And the whole time he was staying at the Cecil Hotel, and they think probably as an homage to Richard Ramirez or at least a connection to him, you know? Yeah. So that, I mean, at this point, like the reputation for the hotel, it's not the kind of thing that is going to appear online, you know, 15 years ago. When young people like Elisa Lam are searching for an inexpensive place to stay. And sadly, that's exactly what happened, was a Canadian traveler, she was 20, 21 years old, was on her way kind of up the West Coast traveling by herself. Her parents were a little unnerved by her traveling by herself. So she was, you know, asked to check in every day, which she was doing. And at the time, it was, you know, they had kind of dorm style rooms, kind of youth hostels. Hostel style rooms where you had bunk beds and a shared bathroom. And so you could stay there. It was a traveler's hotel. And if you, you know, I hate to say it, but if you didn't know much about L.A., you may end up at the Hotel Cecil because you could stay there for like 75 bucks a night or something like that. Yeah, from what I could tell, Stay on Main did a really good job of making their, you know, using their website to their advantage and making it seem like this is a really hip happening spot. And I mean, they. In some ways, they were kind of like just a little ahead of their time because apparently that area around Skid Row in downtown L.A. is like the hippest spot to live in now again. But at the time, it was still really, really Skid Row-y, basically. And. It could be, you know, it could be dangerous. Yeah, and I think it still is, but I think it's just becoming more and more gentrified and it's becoming, I guess, less dangerous in that sense. But at the time when Elisa Lam showed up in 2000. In 2013, it was, you know, it was a dangerous place to be, but this particular spot was just full of, you know, especially European kids on basically budget holidays staying in L.A., basically in hostels. And I know originally she was put into a room with a couple other girls that I think were traveling together, but she was traveling alone. So it was very hostile and not hostile with an E. Well, yeah, there's an E, but it's in a different place than you'd expect. Yes. Youth hostile-y. It was very youth hostile-y, like she was put in a room with other people at first. Yeah, L.A. didn't have a lot of that. I remember there was a youth hostel in Venice that, for some reason, I always wanted to stay there when I lived in L.A. I was like, I'm going to go down and stay in that hostel one night because the beach was so. The beach was really far when you lived on the east side and you kind of never went over there much unless someone came to town and wanted to go. Oh, that makes sense. Sure. So, and, you know, I was broke back then, so it could have been like a little staycation. Did you ever do it? Nah. No. It's one of those things you think about late night and then you wake up the next day and you're like, nah. You blew all your money on Taco Bell instead? Oh, man, I miss Taco Bell. Do you? I don't. I mean, I didn't need it that much, but like I haven't had it in years. I've had too much, I think, was my problem. Oh, okay. Is that the deal? By the way, side note, speaking of weird late night foods, we had a guy on our front door camera the other day come in the middle of the night and leave a package. And we were like, what is this? We went out the next day and it was a bag full of crystals. Wow. And I think it was a delivery, like a door dash or something. Oh, crystals. I thought you meant like amethysts or quartz. No, no, no. I mean, tiny square sliders. Yeah, he had the wrong answer. I think so. Either that or your daughter has mastered the telephone by now. It was really weird. And of course, the first thing I did was feel terrible that someone's late night munchies didn't get satisfied. Did you eat them the next morning just as a homage? Oh, God, no. No, no, no. No? You don't like crystals? Or was it because it was sitting there overnight? Both. I never was into crystal for some reason. Man, I like crystals. It was the thing. I just was. I don't know why. I don't know why. I think I was just a Waffle House guy. I'm fine with Waffle House, too. The big problem with crystals, though, Chuck, I'll tell you, is their fries are probably the worst fries of any fast food. They're the most bland. Somehow, if you just bit into a raw potato, it would be less bland and tasteless than if you ate a crystals fry. Yeah. I don't know how to do it. And if you're from the other places in the country, White Castle is sort of an. Analog to crystal. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, this is not an episode of the Doughboys. This is stuff you should know. And back to Elisa Lam. She was supposed to be there for about, I think, four days and check out on February 1st and did not get in touch with her parents like she had been doing each day. She had been seen shopping for books at a nearby bookstore and then bought some books. And this is one of the things in the documentary, like, you know, they didn't really have any footage of her with any other people inside the hotel before her disappearance. Well, she was also reported to be constantly by herself, too, by people who saw her. Yeah. I mean, she was traveling alone. So that makes sense. But she did get handed off. There were two gentlemen that handed off a kind of a large-ish box to her. Oh, yeah? On camera in front of the hotel. And, of course, the Internet sleuths are like, who are these guys? What was in the box? And apparently in the box were these books that she got because she had spoken with a book reader. seller about like the size of them and boy i don't even know if i can carry these and i think had them delivered to the hotel or whatever so kind of nothing to see here and another example of how annoying this case can be with people online speculating like wrong stuff yeah yeah can be a little annoying for sure but yeah so she was she was alone traveling alone i think she started out in san diego or at least her last stop had been san diego her next stop was going to be santa cruz and yeah her parents have been like okay you need to call us every single day and she had been pretty faithfully until that february 1st came and went with no call and i believe they pretty much immediately contacted the hotel and the lapd and said hey you know our daughter hasn't checked in can you see what's going on i don't know if they did it on february 1st or not but in pretty short order the lapd determined that she she was just gone she wasn't she was nowhere to be found and that there was some suspiciousness going on for sure yeah i mean they did a thorough inspection they went to her room uh they had found that the hotel had gathered all her stuff and bagged it and was holding it in storage which was regular protocol when someone doesn't check out and just leave stuff nothing shady going on there they checked around the hotel uh in the alleyways and sidewalks they checked up on the roof they didn't find anything and uh things got really strange and i guess we should take another ad break here but things got really strange when the hotel sent them footage from inside the elevator of the cecil hotel and we'll get to that right after this it's 95 degrees and your air conditioner suddenly starts making a very weird noise that's when you post your task on airtasker find local help for repairs yard work errands and more without losing your cool go to airtasker.com or download the app airtasker get anything done warning the following song has been rated dangerously catchy and may not be suitable for grown-ups one two three four one two three four knock knock knocking at the door knock knock knocking at the door five six who is it five six who is it it's carrie ann's and it's lingo kids only suitable for kids if it gets stuck in mom's head that's not our problem everything kids love download now for free welcome to the haunted library have you come in search of a tale this podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place from gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls join me colin morgan with new episodes twice a week find the haunted library wherever you get your podcasts all right chuck so elisa lamb is now known to be missing she left her stuff behind at the cecil hotel and she didn't check out she didn't call her parents as she usually does and she's officially a missing person um within a couple of days i think maybe february 6th the police held a press conference and explained what was going on to the public um and uh basically asked for everybody's help and if anyone had any info you know where did she go uh where is she how is she doing is she okay um and i guess i don't i didn't see anything about any get any crazy leads or anything like that i don't know if i can find any leads i don't know if i can find any leads i it doesn't seem to have really kind of captured the public's interest at first and i saw there's this guy named josh dean who's written written uh several uh articles on on the elisa lamb disappearance and um i believe one of the one of the ones that he wrote kind of pinpoints why there wasn't a huge public interest in the first like week or even two of her case um it was because christopher dorner had gone to the police station and he was like oh my god i'm going to go to the on his rampage against the lapd basically declared war on the lapd and was killed in i think the mountains of san bernardino in a standoff like right when elisa lamb went missing so not only were was the public's attention on this especially in la the lapd's attention was definitely on that as well um so elisa lamb was kind of like this faint little chirp in this huge maelstrom at the time faint chirping and maelstrom it's the best i can think of could come up with on short it's amazing are you kidding me oh thanks you just made that up yeah yeah i did you like it yeah but i just have a feeling that next time i'm in your house it's going to be like that's gonna be carved into your desk or something right it's on a t-shirt and right that you put you make momo wear that t-shirt every day that's right uh yeah and you know the other big reason was until this footage actually came out of the elevator uh car then you know that's when um that's when the public's attention really caught hold that changed everything yeah i mean there's no way around it it's it's a very sort of unsettling and i remember when this happened uh before any of the facts of the case were kind of out i remember looking at this video and it is very unsettling and it does appear to be very creepy and that a young woman gets on an elevator um very kind of casually presses all the center buttons on all the floors i think they determined she was on the elevator and she was on the floor and she was on the floor and she was on the floor on the 14th floor and sort of pressed all the floors uh on the way down uh elevator doesn't do anything the doors don't shut she moves to the back corner and sort of standing there she goes and she's she looks outside of the elevator both ways a couple of times in the hallway and then kind of retreats back quickly um at one point she steps out into the hallway and appears to be gesturing towards somebody or she's at least making hand gestures to the right down the hallway yeah and they're unusual hand gestures they're not like the normal hand gestures you might make they're not at all subtle or casual or almost even like um like you know the you you might not even realize you're using your hands when you're talking sometimes like these are these are more gesticulations than just mere gestures you know what i mean yeah and you know there's there's no doubt and eventually she kind of leaves around to the left and exits to the left and the door stays open for a while before it shuts um but there's no getting around the fact that it having known nothing and knowing that this person disappeared uh this young woman and then you see this it seems very suspicious um and creepy i don't think admittedly creepy i think it looks i don't even think it looks that creepy it looks to me like that she is trying to get away from someone and is afraid someone has followed her or is gesturing at a person who she feels threatened by it's what it looks like to me i know other people online or talk about other worldly spirits and she's con like you said earlier she's conjuring uh spirits with her hands like i just i that never occurred to me it just looked like she might be in some kind of peril and was trying to get away from someone right um but that's creepy in and of itself you know yeah i just mean not creepy i'm like a supernatural like yeah what's going on here no i think the thing that really when it really turns creepy to me is when she turns around and hides in the corner of the elevator like she's she's hiding and then the second part that's that's genuinely creepy is when she like leans out and like looks both ways and then kind of jumps back into the elevator it's yeah just i mean it's really hard not to kind of put yourself in her shoes and she's clearly frightened at that yeah i mean to see somebody frightened like that uh it's that's creepy and you're and you're waiting on someone to enter the elevator but that never happens um and with the internet's sleuthing you couldn't really make out the time code very well and so all the people online are like well why can't you make out the time code and the time stamps like what would degrade that and not the rest of it and and then they they think they're right and then they think they decoded it and there's almost a full minute missing and the hotel cecil edited out a portion clearly and before they sent it to the cops and and they interviewed the woman and that you're talking about the manager and she was like no of course we didn't edit anything out like we were horrified by this disappearance and just sent him everything we had right plus i'm sure also that most of the employees that stay on main know exactly how to edit video out before handing things over to the cops anyway well it is la that's true that is a good point actually but i don't buy it i think it was it is what it was which was uh a person in an elevator who had some uh was having some mental issues and you know we'll get to that in a second um and i i think you know it's sort of like uh the easiest explanation of the video at least to me it seems to be the the most accurate all right uh that that's what i buy that's how i buy it too um that was so that video was released on february 13th and now all of a sudden the public is taking notice um she becomes an internet meme like almost overnight um with people like watching and analyzing that video like you were saying and yet they still can't find her No one has any idea where she is. two weeks now since she went missing, this video is out there that the entire internet is on the case now. And it wasn't until a couple of days, I think two days after the video came out, Chuck, that one of the guys, one of the custodians of the Cecil Hotel of Stay on Main, I should say, was asked to go check on the water supply on the roof because the Cecil Hotel used gravity-fed water. They had four 1,000-gallon tanks on the top of the roof. And when you opened the tap, the water would come pouring down from those tanks into your room and out the faucet. And some of the tenants, I don't know if it was just the hotel or some long-term tenants, but they were complaining that the water pressure had suddenly gotten really low and that the water that was coming out had a strange odor. And so they dispatched the custodian to the roof. And he went and checked. And I think as he was approaching the main water tank, I think tank number one, he noticed that the hatch was open and in very short order made the grisly discovery of Elisa Lam's body. Yeah. He was kind of like the super. He was a maintenance guy. His name is Santiago Lopez. And he's in the documentary, too. I don't think he saw the hatch because the hatch is on top of the tank. But he went to go and he said it was a routine thing, if there was any kind of water issue, was to climb the ladder to the tanks and go look and see what was going on because there's probably a clog or something. And he saw her body naked about a foot below the water, just sort of suspended there. And when they interviewed this guy in the documentary, it's really sad. He was sort of at the center of a lot of this. And he was like, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't with interviews. And he was speaking through, I guess not through a translator, but through subtitles. But he was clearly, you know, still very upset about this. And it scarred him to see this woman floating in the tank. And he knew immediately who it was and called down to the hotel manager who we've been talking about and said, you know, she's up here in the tank. And, you know, the cops came, they found her clothes, which were determined to be the same clothes she was wearing in the elevator video, kind of at the bottom of the tank, they had sunk. And, you know, immediately, the new mystery is not what's going on in this video, although, you know, that played a part because they were still trying to figure that out as far as foul play goes, but was how she made it in here and, and why she made it in there. Yeah, because she, she, it was like the hatch is not easy to get in or out of. They had to like cut her out. Out of the, they had to cut a hole in the bottom of the tank so they could access it, right? They couldn't just pull her back out of that hatch. So that's kind of weird in and of itself. She's also nude. That also kind of added to the mystery of the whole thing. And then also the, you know, the coroner, when, when he made his, his toxicology report available, he basically said it was, he wasn't able to make any conclusive, find any conclusive results because there wasn't enough blood. Blood to take a sample from, you know, she had just kind of permeated the water in that her blood had. And it wasn't, you just couldn't like take a water sample and be like, oh yeah, there's no, you know, there's no drugs in here or anything like that. So all of that combined really kind of just, just took that mystery, you know, that people had been primed to start thinking about with that video and then just blew it through the roof. The, the, the water being, you know, going to other people's taps in the hotel and, you know, Lisa Lamb basically being a part of that water really kind of solidified her legendary status or the legendary status of her mystery. I think in people's imagination, anybody who comes across that case can't help but like let the mind wander in that respect. Oh, for sure. I mean, the idea of drinking water and bathing in water with a decomposing body, I mean, the body had, was in a pretty, pretty rough state of decomposition at that point. Uh, they did do obviously in the autopsy, they didn't find any signs of foul play. There were no, uh, obviously no, uh, like obvious wounds. There were no internal, uh, wounds. There was no strangulation. Um, they, they pretty much said this doesn't look like foul play at all. Um, the one, one of the mysteries was how she got up there because you, um, if you want to go just through the regular staircase to the rooftop and this is not a rooftop. You know, it doesn't have like a rooftop hangout area or whatever, although people, you know, there was plenty of graffiti and beer bottles and drug needles. And so people would make their way up there. But, uh, if you go through the regular door, it's one of the, um, alarm doors, which would trigger downstairs and all throughout the lobby. Um, that never came on and you have to have a key to disable it, but there is a fire escape, uh, entry with a ladder basically for the last, like for the last story, it's a little precarious. Yeah, but she, she could have just simply gone out the window to the fire escape and climbed up the ladder and then up the ladder to the tanks. It's not, you know, it's a little, um, it would be a little bit of a scary trip up that ladder, I think. Yeah. But, uh, considering what happened, she, she clearly was, uh, was not in a good place mentally. So I think that's completely believable. That journalist, Josh Dean, um, went in, I think 2015 to see the Cecil himself. He had, uh, gotten obsessed with the, the, um, case. So he went in and kind of investigated it in person. And, um, he quickly found that open window was still open. Uh, and the, the fire escape was easily accessible. And, um, in the, uh, I think one of his articles is called American Horror Story, which is a reference to, um, what I think the hotel season of American Horror Story was based on or inspired by Elisa Lam's disappearance. Um, but there's a picture that he took of that ladder leading from the fire escape on the fifth, 15th or 14th floor up to the roof. And all you see is up, like you just see the ladder and then above it is sky. But after reading about it, your imagination just thinks of like the 15 stories behind you. Like as you're, you know, as you're looking up this ladder, it's one of the most unsettling pictures I've ever seen. If you read the text, uh, you know, that's around it. Um, but he said by his judgment, uh, an average person could easily make it up that ladder, especially if you don't look down. Yeah. He said, if you're carrying a body or another person, you could not do it. He said it just would be too difficult. And, uh, you know, it's, it's one of those straight up vertical ladders on the side of the building. Yeah. But if you were in a manic state, as a lot of people believe, uh, Elisa Lam was, um, you could probably make it up that ladder pretty quickly and you wouldn't even necessarily consider looking down. All of a sudden you'd be on the roof. And after you were on the roof, it would be a fairly easy proposition to get into one of those tanks, especially, I think she weighed about 115 pounds and was about five feet, four inches. So it was possible for her to get into one of those tanks through that hatch. But, um, either she was too scared to come out conceivably, or she couldn't get out when she wanted to get out and tired of treading water because the water would have been deep and drowned after a while. Yeah. I mean, they did, uh, I think the police dogs did pick up her scent near that window. So that seems to be what happened. And, uh, you know, this is one of those cases where the more I read, like all I could feel was despair about this poor woman having, uh, what looked to be some sort of medication related manic episode, maybe scared, maybe thinking someone was trying to get away and, and going at great lengths, going to great lengths to maybe hide somewhere like inside of a water tank. Um, I don't know like why her clothes were off or why her clothes ended up in the tank. I'm not saying any of this makes sense, but it is something that could happen. And all I can think about is what an awful place that she must have been for something like this to have happened. Yeah. And I mean, to kind of back up the, um, the, the mental, break, um, theory, which is what I buy. That's, that's, I, that's where I put my stock. Um, she remember I said she was originally put in a room with a couple other girls. She didn't know at the stay on Maine. Well, they complained about her behaving strangely. So she was moved to her own private room. Um, apparently she went to a taping of the Conan O'Brien show and, uh, was escorted out because she was behaving strangely. And then, um, detectives also found she was on four different medications for, uh, bipolar one disorder and depression. And, um, the LAPD, uh, based on the, the, um, the prescription dates on the bottles and then the number of pills that were left and the instructions on the bottles, um, the LAPD were able to determine that she hadn't been following, um, the, the dosage recommendations or taking her pills or medication. So if you put all of that together, and then also that, um, people taking their clothes off as part of a psychotic episode. happens. It's been documented. Um, you like, there's no, there's no pieces missing on the table. Like she could have gone out on that fire escape, gone up the ladder. Like there's nothing that is, well, yeah, but then there's this really big thing that remains unexplained. Like it explains absolutely everything. And then suddenly it kind of makes all the other stuff like government mind control or ghosts or whatever seem just kind of gross, you know? Totally agree. Uh, I believe her parents brought a lawsuit against the hotel that was eventually dismissed if I'm not mistaken. And, um, it just remains a very, very sad situation and a sad case. And, and it is very annoying when you get online and everyone thinks that their spirits being conjured and, and, and all this wacky stuff is just not the case. Not the case. Indeed. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Well, that's it for the Cecil hotel and the Lisa lamb RIP. Uh, and since I said RIP, that means it's time for a listener mail. Uh, I'm going to call this follow-up to Y2K. Oh yes. Uh, and this is something that we actually had in our notes that we, I guess just kind of failed to bring up. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, you had it in your notes as well. Yeah. Yeah. The, the 2038 problem. Um, we got a lot of emails about this and, and we're not going to fully probably explain to everyone's satisfaction. How it works. But, um, Hey guys, just got done listening to the Y2K podcast, which brought back an interesting range of memories of living through that time. In case you weren't aware, there's something called the Unix Y2K problem that still exists, but it's slowly being fixed by smart people behind the scenes. Thank goodness. The majority of computers in the world run Unix based operating systems, not windows or Mac OS. And unless these systems are patched at 314 on January 19th, 2020, we're going to be able to fix it. So if you're interested in that, I'd love to hear from you. And if you're interested in that, I'd love to hear from you. Uh, their clocks will roll over to think it's midnight, January 1st, 1970. Yes. Uh, the cause is basically the same in the early versions of the OS only had so much memory allocated to time representations, but more modern versions now have this fixed and hence computers aren't susceptible once they're updated or upgraded. Although not all systems can be easily updated. Uh, and that is from a bunch of people, but specifically from a PhD, Alan, the chalker. That's great. Thanks, Alan. And everybody who wrote in, I was like, Oh man, I meant to include that. But apparently Unix, um, represents time as the number of seconds from the epoch date, which is, uh, some date in 1970. And then eventually it's going to have more seconds than it can represent in the number of digits. So it'll just roll back over like he was saying, which is pretty neat. Unix. Pretty cool. But, and also I'm glad to hear that there are smart people working on that because we got 17. You guys take it easy. Take a weekend, you know? Sure. Go, uh, go sit in your house and social distance from everybody. That's right. We all, we also got a lot of emails just from people that, uh, some people whose parents helped rewrite code or we're heading up projects, rewriting code. And it was, it was pretty cool. We got a lot of, a lot of emails about that one. He struck a chord. Yeah, it was a good idea, Chuck. Um, well, if you want to get in touch with us, like Alan and everybody else did, you can send us an email. Summer me. Let's host people outside more reality. The patio furniture is still in the box. The AC just started making a weird noise and the pool flamingo still needs to be inflated. So I open air tasker, post the task, set my budget and pick a tasker to help. Suddenly the furniture's assembled. The AC is fixed and the flamingos floating, which means I am too. Go to air tasker.com or download the app air tasker. Get anything done. Warning. The following song has been rated dangerously catchy and may not be suitable for grownups. 1, 2, 3, 4. 1, 2, 3, 4. 5, 6, who is it? 5, 6, who is it? Lingo Kids. Only suitable for kids. Lingo Kids. Join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Guaranteed human.