Swampdaw reflects on his career, emphasizing personal connections and artistic authenticity in music. He recounts a tense but memorable experience producing Simon Burr, who resented his choice to invest in studio musicians over reusing old material. Despite the conflict, Swampdaw highlights Simon’s complex nature as both a man of faith and a volatile individual. He contrasts two songs with racial and emotional differences, illustrating how music can mirror societal divides. His admiration for Wilson Pickett stems from his raw emotional energy and lived experience, while John Pran is praised as a deeply honest songwriter whose lyrics reflect real life. Raised on country music, Swampdaw values its emotional depth and storytelling, especially themes of loss and struggle. He recalls a legendary producer whose "walls of sound" were intuitive rather than technically perfect, underscoring the balance between artistry and chance in music. A new track co-created with a collaborator from the *Blackgrass* album is seen as authentic and promising, reflecting his ongoing commitment to meaningful, grounded music. The conversation closes with gratitude and a sense of personal and artistic fulfillment.
- Before we start the music, just introduce yourself. - I'm Swampdaw. - You ready? - Let's try it and see. - Win your baby. (upbeat music) - Simon Burr. - Who's Simon Burr? - Simon was a great singer. - He hated me. I produced him. - He hated you. - Yeah. - Why did he hate you? - We split the money properly. - Ah. - He just wanted to use a lot of old track for a new album. - Yeah. - I spent the money on studio musicians. - They're kind of shit and he was mad at the end when we only had to divide up 25 grand. - He was a man of God, right? - He was a lot of things. He owned a funeral home and it was all round entrepreneur. - Last time I saw him, he came up to me. I was on a phone booth. - He drove up there and came into the phone booth and pushed me in. - He said, "If I wasn't a man of God, I'd whip your fucking ass." I said, "Don't do that." (laughing) - One for one. Good start. ♪ Don't make her she's all I've got ♪ - I produced and wrote this. This is John the paycheck. - But I wrote it. - Well, here, this is the other one. ♪ Don't take her she's all I've got ♪ - That's Freddie North. - Freddie North. What's the difference between those two? - One's black, one's white. (laughing) - Sometimes it's that simple. - It is. - He had Don Beaver, Johnny had the country version. - The country version was bigger, right? - Yeah, 'cause it was cut by so many artists. It's about 40 artists. - Yeah. - But before it was either of those who was just a song. - Right. - Two for two. ♪ Wait till the midnight hour ♪ - Midnight hour Wilson Pickett. - What's up with Wilson Pickett? - He did a couple of my songs. He did, it's still good. - Still good. ♪ Still good ♪ ♪ Midnight hour ♪ ♪ It's good ♪ - What do you think it was that made him, him? - Hey, man, he was exciting. - Yeah. - This song, bitch, don't stay. ♪ I don't know how to hold ya ♪ ♪ Hold ya, I don't know how to hold ya ♪ - He was crazy, I understand. - He was crazy. - Yeah, he was crazy, you know. He shot up a hotel rooms and all that kind of shit. He was considered a lunatic, but I thought he was great. Still good. ♪ And a whole lot of feeling when my soul ♪ - Yeah, I just did this on my new album, John Pran. - Why'd you do that? - I vow to never make another Swap Dog album without a John Pran song in it. - Yeah, so what is it about John Pran that speaks to you? - We became friends in 1968. I thought at that time, he was a hell of a writer and he turned out to be one of the greatest writers in the world. - What do you think it is that makes him such a great writer? - Everything he writes is basically about his life. - Yeah. - It's almost like the better rappers. They rap about what they truly know and have experienced. - It's really experienced, yeah. - And that's what John Pran did. ♪ And there's a whole lot that is on ♪ ♪ Where all the money goes ♪ ♪ In Jesus Christ, that the man that has the foes ♪ - I'm part of his reason for being on Atlantic Records. Now, I'm on his list. ♪ And since I've been to the world of freedom ♪ - Here at U.S. Bond, quarter to three produced by Frank Wheeler, who told me I couldn't sing mother fuckers. I was trying to get on the gram, which is the label. And he saw me in can. He took time to walk over to me and said, "Well, I don't know why you keep track." (laughs) He was funny. He's even funny, you're now. (laughs) - You like country music? - Yeah, I love it. I'm raised. ♪ It'll be over my dead body ♪ ♪ I think it's low rather than live ♪ ♪ While you can ♪ - Great voice. - Yeah, yeah, she was magnificent. I think she's great. And she did. She's all I got also. He's all I got is what she did. - Some of the best country stuff, there's a sorrowfulness. - That's what it's about. - Yeah. - You know, about your grandma going to jail and all that kind of shit. (laughs) - What do you mean you were raised on it? - You were listening to country music on the radio? - I'm from Virginia, that's basically all we heard. - Every station was the country station. - Yeah, damn, yeah. I love country music. Of course, I just love music, period. I played maybe a country for three or four days straight. I do the same thing with some good blues. You record, say that you shit, I like. (laughs) ♪ I don't wanna lose ♪ Floor, edit floor. - What are you hearing? - He's a good writer. He hit him one when he did knock on wood. I mean, he just, I got a couple of hours back. And I don't know anything about him, intimate, whatever. I know he's just a parent holding his own 'cause he's still working. You think that that's a lot of what it comes down to in the music business is like, it's an art form, but it's also commerce. - I've risen near the top and gone back and got near the top and went back. Never went above the top. (upbeat music) - I held a bass drop, but that feels like the did this. You can just hear that sound right away. - His full walls of sound. (laughs) There's same thing coming all over every wall, but hey, it worked. - What happened to that? - What happened to him? - To that sound. - Well, it was his sound and nobody knew how he was getting it. I don't know if he truly knew how how he was getting it. He just lucked up all some shit. - I got one for you. ♪ You know I am a lot ♪ - Oh yeah. I cut this also 'cause she was on my last album. As a Tom, how'd you get to know her? - On this blackgrass album that I did, the co-producer Brian Olson. He introduced 'cause he wanted her to be on the album. And after I heard it, I wanted her to be on the album. ♪ If you don't ♪ ♪ I believe I believe it ♪ ♪ I believe it's all I'm gone ♪ ♪ Three, four, five, six, seven ♪ - How does it sound? - Sounds like me. I think it's gonna be a hit. - I think so too. - So what's the plan today? The rest of the day? - I don't know. - What do you like to eat when you're here? - My time for liking food at New York was before you'd born. - You haven't been around at all. - Since 1991. - Your mother knew you were out here talking to strangers. - We're not strangers anymore. (laughs) - Well, congratulations on the new album. - And I thank you, man. - I thank you. You don't have to search anymore. Just get on the home.
Podcast Summary
Key Points:
Swampdaw shares a personal anecdote about producing Simon Burr, who disliked his approach due to spending money on studio musicians instead of using old tracks.
Simon Burr, a singer and funeral home owner, was eccentric and confrontational, once pushing Swampdaw into a phone booth and threatening violence.
Swampdaw highlights two songs with contrasting themes—“Don’t Make Her” (black) and “Don’t Take Her” (white)—showing how race and perspective shape musical expression.
He praises Wilson Pickett’s raw, emotional style, noting his chaotic lifestyle but undeniable talent and influence.
John Pran is celebrated as a deeply authentic songwriter whose work reflects personal life experiences, a quality Swampdaw values in great music.
Swampdaw reflects on his roots in country music from Virginia, emphasizing its emotional depth and sorrowful storytelling.
He recalls the iconic "full walls of sound" style of a producer he admired, attributing it to luck and intuition rather than technical mastery.
A new song featuring a collaborator from the *Blackgrass* album is described as authentic and potentially a hit, reflecting his ongoing commitment to meaningful music.
Summary:
Swampdaw reflects on his career, emphasizing personal connections and artistic authenticity in music. He recounts a tense but memorable experience producing Simon Burr, who resented his choice to invest in studio musicians over reusing old material. Despite the conflict, Swampdaw highlights Simon’s complex nature as both a man of faith and a volatile individual.
He contrasts two songs with racial and emotional differences, illustrating how music can mirror societal divides. His admiration for Wilson Pickett stems from his raw emotional energy and lived experience, while John Pran is praised as a deeply honest songwriter whose lyrics reflect real life. Raised on country music, Swampdaw values its emotional depth and storytelling, especially themes of loss and struggle.
He recalls a legendary producer whose "walls of sound" were intuitive rather than technically perfect, underscoring the balance between artistry and chance in music. A new track co-created with a collaborator from the *Blackgrass* album is seen as authentic and promising, reflecting his ongoing commitment to meaningful, grounded music. The conversation closes with gratitude and a sense of personal and artistic fulfillment.
FAQs
Simon Burr was a great singer that Swampdaw produced. He disliked Swampdaw because he wanted to use old tracks for his album, while Swampdaw spent money on studio musicians, leading to a disagreement over the distribution of funds.
The two songs are by different artists — one is by John the Paycheck (black) and the other by Freddie North (white). The difference is simple: one is black, one is white, highlighting how race can influence music and perception.
Swampdaw believes John Pran is one of the greatest writers in the world because everything he writes is rooted in his personal life experiences, much like experienced rappers who write about what they truly know.
Wilson Pickett was exciting and energetic, known for his raw emotion and stage presence. Despite being labeled a 'lunatic' for wild behavior, Swampdaw believes his music, like 'Midnight Hour,' still has a powerful and heartfelt feel.
Swampdaw was raised in Virginia, where every radio station played country music. This early exposure shaped his love for the genre, and he continues to appreciate its emotional depth and storytelling.
Swampdaw believes music is both an art form and a form of commerce. The best music comes from personal experience and authenticity, not just commercial appeal.
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