Sustainable Farming Practices Within Palestine

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome to the first episode of Palestine in between. A podcast made in collaboration with Columbia University's Center for Palestine Studies, Lift of Volumes, Lita Montsour, and myself, your host, Cherisade. This podcast is part of a larger program under the same name that explores contemporary Palestinian cultures and yearnings across generations in Palestine and its diaspora. Over the next couple episodes we'll be discussing land and food politics within Palestine, or specifically the criminalization of food and its production within Palestine, and the autonomous practices that exist in its legislation, occupation, and ongoing colonialism. In this episode I'll be speaking with Raya Ziyada, she's a co-founder of Manjala, grassroots agricultural and cultural initiative that raises awareness around ecological, sustainable agriculture through organizing agricultural community activities throughout Palestine. In the second half of the episode I'll be speaking with Yara Dawani, one of the farmers at Umsleamount Farm, the first CSA established within Palestine. Throughout this episode you'll hear both my guests as well as myself refer to Area C. For background, Area C is one of three administrative divisions of the occupied West Bank that were created under the Oslo Accords in 1995. These three divisions include Area A, B, and C. Area A operates with full civil and security control by the Palestinian Authority. Area B operates with Palestinian civil control and joint Israeli and Palestinian security control. An Area C which is home to more than 300,000 Palestinians and contains the illegal Israeli settlements, operates under full Israeli civil and security control. For context, over 60% of the occupied West Bank is considered Area C, where Israel retains near exclusive control, including over law enforcement, planning, and construction. Since 2000, according to Harats, Israel has rejected over 98% of Palestinian building permit requests within the occupied West Bank's Area C, effectively halting Palestinian development. This is just one of the many barriers Palestinian residents and farmers within Area C face that we'll explore throughout this episode. A key aspect of colonization has always been to erode food sovereignty, but many such as our guest today are working to reclaim it. In a country where colonialism has affected everything from access to natural resources as basic as water, to the intentional destruction of native plants and seeds, food sovereignty is a fundamental and highly effective mechanism of resistance. With this, I'd like to introduce our first guest, Raya Ziyada of Menjla. Raya, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what Menjla is? So my name is Raya Ziyada. I live in Ramallah. I'm originally a refugee from the south of Qudai Palestine from a village called Difaluj, which used to be an agricultural land. And now there's a settlement built on it. The co-founder of Manjla, Manjla is under the agricultural and cultural initiative that works in Palestine in different places in Palestine. What was the spark behind the creation of Manjla? The idea started when we realized that there is a necessity to reestablish a connection with the soil and with the land, especially for the between the land and the youth. And the main initiative was started in 2017 to do this connection or reconnection with the land and the soil. So we thought like what can we do to motivate youth and children to go back to this place, which is very important and basic place in developing and shaping our belonging and identity to the place, out of the space. And we looked at this initiative as a woman that started this initiative that agriculture and land is a philosophical concept, can be a philosophical concept that based on liberatory agriculture or agriculture for liberation and as a way of daily practice. So we wanted to go online with our colleagues and comrades who work also on agriculture and agriculture to start this movement in Palestine that depends on production and food sovereignty, which is the most important thing to reach, to be able to produce our own food and to liberate ourself from the dependency on the occupiers economy. And that was the flame or the trigger when we wanted to start this initiative. The first trial I would say or experience for us was starting the first Palestinian agricultural or agricultural camp in Palestine in 2017, which targeted youth from different Palestinian cities. And we started this agricultural camp on the top of mountains in a village called Ankenia, which is REC. And it's far away from all aspects of the busy life, no lights, no phones. So we had to go back to the basic to be in direct touch with the soil. And that was the best place to start learning and sharing the knowledge that youth about agro-collegy from conceptual and practical way. Like learning, for instance, how to do compost, or to do different types of compost. And adding to that, talking about not only about practices, dialogue practices of agriculture, but connecting this with politics, with the global warming, with where we are today. Other than that, it was also important for us to go to the heart of the city, not only to go outside of the city, to go to the city where there's the concrete. And there's neil of realism, there's capitalism that covers the shapes of green in the city. And it became gray. So we had this idea of starting Gorilla gardening. And we did a pilot and it was very interesting to turn neglected piece of land into a lively garden. And many people were interested, and the neighbors actually were interested in helping. So it was a very interesting experience. So we were trying to interfere in different spaces and to experiment. And we were looking for what to do and to apply these methods, other places. And also taking into consideration that in Palestine, we have an issue with the space. We have limited space. And even with the spaces for agriculture, we don't have that much access to it. For instance, the area C is around 63 to 65 percent of the West Bank. And these are the agricultural lands. So the idea is if we don't have the access to go to these places, what other alternatives we can play with does not mean that we have to give up, of course, on our rights to these lands, but also to play and to think in creative ways, how can we survive. In addition to that, one of the most important things I think that we focus on is collaborating with other existing initiatives. For instance, in 2018, Manjala, alongside the Palestinian ecological forum, we started planning and thinking of starting a popular campaign, a public campaign for reviving dead water springs. And this is a very important issue because we do suffer from the lack of water in Palestine, especially the villages due to the theft of the water resources by the illegal Israeli colonies in the West Bank. And we chose a village near Ramallah called Mazara on Mubani to be a certain example or a pilot for a water harvesting as an attempt to give life back to this dead water space. So the idea was how can we increase the biodiversity, how can we build whales and the interesting part of this pilot or this experience was the interaction with the villagers, not only the villagers in Masar al-Bani, but the youth who came from this rounding village. And the idea started developing in a very organic and natural way these youth, they started implementing the same methods and techniques in the village nearby, which is a aurora. So it was very interesting to see that the spirit, that the youth of Palestine, when they get in touch or encounter simple experiences with the land, we can see amazing results, especially that now we're talking about high unemployment rate amongst the Palestinian youth. The unemployment rate in Palestine now is reaching to 45%, 60% of them are youth. Youth who are left with no much choices, no work, no clear political agenda. So that from here comes the importance of engaging in agriculture because also it's very political. You bring up such an important point when you mention water scarcity within Palestine, something I'm not sure a lot of people are aware of. Could you tell me just a little bit more about the work that Manjala has done around spring revivals and what that looked like? So mainly these many springs dried out, you put the depth of the water, especially the water that goes to the underground. And by the Oslo agreement, there's a limit to how far we can dig for whales. The other problem is that in areas you have to get a permit from this railing. And most of the times they don't give the Palestinian permits. So there is a serious problem. So the idea is how can we use the water that comes from the sky? There's rain. So the idea is how can we preserve the rain that comes all along our lands? These techniques and these methods that we use can, for instance, work in mountains or in valleys. So usually the water after the rain washes away all the soil. So that's one of the main reasons for drought. That's one of the main reasons why we lose the soil. So the idea works that we have to slow and understand the movement of the water. So we build whales in a shape of a half a moon to slow the movement of the water. And adding to that, if we have a green coverage like shops and we just throw different seats to the ground and trees, this also would slow down the movement of the water, which means that we are slowing the drought or we're stopping the drought, we're stopping the soil erosion that is happening in the mountains and the valleys. We are trying to save the water instead of going to the sea that we're not even allowed to go to. So we try to slow down the movement of the water and the water goes down deep in the soil. So we preserve the water inside the soil. And of course it stays for months. And time by time, year after year, if we keep doing the same process, there's a possibility to revive the dead springs. So we're trying to come with alternatives if these resources are under continuous theft by the Israeli colonies in the West Bank. So we have to be creative. We have also to use all methods. For instance, we have what we call an Arabic senescent, which are the natural old techniques of protecting the soil and the stopping soil erosion in Palestine. We have these terraces, which we call Arabic senescent, since thousands and thousands of years. For instance, if we go to Bethlehem, we go to a small village called Batir. It's magical if you go see the watering system there and the terraces there, the terraces there are 6,000 years old and still functioning today. So this is like briefly the technique that we we try to use in collecting water, doing water harvest and reviving the dead waters springs. The other sector that we try to work with or to target is the RD kids and the children. So we try to engage with activities with them by mixing some or adding some cultural and art aspects to it. For instance, we do something called the Bugsoten where the kids learn more about the diversity and get in touch with the insects and learn more about them. Or we try to teach them agro-ecological techniques. So when a kid takes the seed and put the seed in the soil and the kid sees the plant growing, this already builds a connection between the kid and the soil because they can see that there is a connection, there is a relationship that they can go to there. The most important thing also is not the practice but also again the philosophy, the history, the tradition of it. When we tell the kids that the first seed that was planted in the womb of the earth was done by a Palestinian hands, a woman, Tukba, and that was one of the theories that the agricultural revolution started in Palestine and Tukba which is in the west of Ramallah. They found caves there that belong to the Natuvi area. I'm not sure if it's the right word in English but in Arabic it's not the Natuvi area. They found agricultural tools that were 10,000 years before Christ. It's important to reconnect with our identity, to reconnect with our history. So when we tell that story to the kids, we tell them that this seed that intentionally was planted was done by a Palestinian woman. Also, like sharing these stories with the kids, I think also motivates them to have a closer connection with the soil and the closer connection to their agriculture heritage. Furthermore, in the coming period, we're trying to target different locations and different spaces. We are going to start the first agricultural farm, small farm in Al-Walajah, which is in the area seen in Bethlehem and also under the threat of the the continuation of the illegal colonid area. They're expanding and taking more lands. And in Al-Walajah, it's amazing how each place in Palestine has a very significant story with the soil and with the trees. For instance, in Al-Walajah, we have a tree. And all of the trees, it's the oldest in the world. It's 6,000 years old. Despite Palestine's rich agricultural heritage, throughout this conversation, it's been pretty evident that Palestinian farmers face some very unique challenges, some that are faced throughout Palestine, and some that are pretty specific to Area C. I mean, you've spoken on the inability to get permits to build on your property and the inability to dig water wells. What are some of the other specific challenges you see that farmers within Area C face? For instance, the farmers in the Area C, one of the basic things that you might need, or do you need in Palestine, especially that we are suffering from drought in many areas, having a water well would tend a lot, for instance, that's basic. Farmers are not allowed to dig their wells. Farmers are not allowed to do any types of construction that might be needed in an agriculture land. And adding to that the continuous harassment by the Israeli settlers, for instance, Burin, which is enablers in the West Bank. In that area, it's continuously targeted by the Israeli settlers there. I don't know if you heard about what we called in Palestine. and sign the massacre of the trees that happened during the past months. Like we're talking about 10,000 trees that were aborted and burned. And from '67, from '48 till today, two million Palestinian trees were murdered by the Israeli occupiers. So the area scene or the villagers, the farmers in the area, see, are in continuous struggle to protect their trees, to protect their lands. The other problem that, for instance, the people in Al-Walajian, which is in Bethlehem, suffer from is usually the Israeli colonies. They opened the sewage water and they directed directly towards the agricultural lands which kills all the corpse, which kills all the vegetables, the trees, other than the diseases that it spreads. For another example on that in Gaza, also this is a serious problem where the agricultural lands, usually they get sprayed by chemicals using helicopters, Israeli helicopters they go and they spray chemicals over these lands, which kill the soil, not only the vegetables, because also they target the soil. And once you target the soil and the soil dies, it needs years and years to revive it. Another problem that faced the farmers and the peasants in the area, see, it's, for instance, now in Jericho, they use money of these farms to produce products that goes to Israeli food production or manufacturers. So now we have this problem of cucumber and thousands of tons are being used for monoculture production for the Israeli. And by time, year after year, this also harmed the soil and which means that you need years to revive it, which means that not only the land is being used for the Israelis, but also we are not producing our own food. And also it means that for years we will not be able to use the soil. So the challenges are many. Like I can't think of many, many aspects of the farmers suffered from an area say that it's uncommon in any other place of the world that difficulties, the challenges that the farmers do face in the area see in Palestine yet, still till today, the main producers for food for Palestinians. With all these challenges, they are the main source for our food, the Palestinian food, I mean, because we have high-pandas-rated producers as well. Due to the occupation, of course, it's not the choice. So if you see, adding to these challenges, there is persistence, there is an amazing spirit that these farmers have. I know a farmer, a woman, a pizzerent, she's amazing, she's an old woman from Burin, her name is Duha. She has olive trees inside the settlement. They stole her parts of her land. She insists on going, risking her life to go and to harvest her trees every year, she goes. Every year they try to get her lands, every year they burn her trees. And I see her. And I see how amazing she is, she goes, risking her life. And she tells me, these trees are my daughters. These trees are mine. This land is for me, for my grandfather, for my grandfather, and I will keep protecting and keep my relationship with my grandmother. So for me, as a Palestinian and as a human, I see these pizzerent farmers, the most important protectors for Palestinians and for Palestine and for Palestinian us. As we're speaking on the challenges that farmers within area see face, also some challenges that farmers throughout Palestine face, I want to get back to the idea of agro-ecology and sustainable farming, something that's at the heart of Manjala's work. It's also something that can be seen as a path to food sovereignty as well. Can you tell me a little bit about agro-ecology and de-fill as a farming practice? It can lead to food sovereignty for Palestinians? So agro-ecology, it's important to talk about the Palestinian-agro-ecological forum, the space for all Palestinians who have an relationship with the agro-ecology. Whether they were producers, consumers, researchers, journalists, anyone interested they are, like this forum is open for them on this platform. And when we talk about agro-ecology, agro-ecology goes in line directly with the food sovereignty. And when we talk about agro-ecology, we talk about a clean production with no chemicals, that is the basic thing about that. And we try to come up with two things that fight drought and solutions of agricultural practices that revive the soil and techniques that will help the farmers overcome their challenges or the challenges that we face due to the global warming or due to the Israeli occupation. For instance, we come up with the methods that might be a bit challenging to spread it at the beginning when we say there's no tiling for the soil, which is a very major thing in agriculture in our heads. And so when we introduce methods at the beginning, we face those challenges. But we managed to put or to set up examples how agro-ecology and methods and techniques actually do benefit the farmers by producing more by using less water resources. And one of the main important and influential people in Palestine is Sa'id Dharar, who has been working on spreading to Palestine since more than 20 years. And greatly-- and I'm happy to say that now we see more people who are interested in agro-ecology. And we started seeing new youth initiatives appearing and wanting to learn. And we have a few examples of your perspectives that appeared in the past four, five years. And this knowledge also has spread to them. And now they are using agro-ecological techniques, which means that there's more production. There's more profit. There's healthier food that we produce with no chemicals. And at the same time, these techniques do help by the soil, by fixing the soil in areas. Another important aspect of agro-ecology that it believes in the community supported agriculture and spreading the whole idea of community supported agriculture. And one of these examples are the most successful examples you can say today is Umselaiman Farm in Belaian. And there were previous attempts to start the community-based agricultural farms, which depends mainly on building a direct relationship between the consumers and the farmers. And this channel on opening this direct channel is very important because it means that we overcome all the problems that the farm face, something that we already talked about, the challenges that the farmers face to be able to sell the food. So we try to not overcome obstacles that we face in Palestine as an occupied nation, but also agro-ecology and the Palestinian Agricological Forum adapts techniques and methods and philosophies that are needed, not only in Palestine, but are needed now every place and every spot in the world. But you know, as we're speaking on agro-ecology as a practice and also as a solution to some of the challenges farmers with in Palestine face, also as a potential path to food sovereignty. What are some of the ways you were seeing farmers revive some of these ancestral agricultural practices? And what are some of the more important practices you think we should be reviving? The most important practices that our ancestors used to do, which is saving the native seeds. And I think that is the most important thing that we should do or revive now. Because the native seed has knowledge to what it needs, what things that it needs from the soil. And by protecting our native seeds, it means that we are protecting the future generation. And now with the whole genetic modified seeds, it's very, very dangerous. It means that a company can control the future of humanity. When we talk about Monsanto, which was bought by buyer, German company. So they try to control our seeds. Our ancestors, our grandmothers and our grandfathers, they used to save these seeds and exchange it. So these were very, very, very important things to preserve our food and to preserve our future. And the other thing, and this is something that we're trying to work on through the Palestinian ecological forum, through a Muslim informed, through Sharak, which is another initiative. In Palestine for preserving the Palestinian and the country very much. And there's Vivian Sunsouw as well. So there are like very, very important and interesting initiatives that are trying to preserve the native of the Palestinian seeds. The other practice is that we're trying to revive for still there, but not as used to be, which is something called El Aune. El Aune is based on volunteering and it's based on helping each other. For instance, if my neighbor has a land that needs harvesting for their tomato and cucumber, and I have the olives. So I would go help them. The whole village would go and help each other from one land to the other. And with these are very beautiful practices because not only they help each other, they eat together, they sing together. There are many floccularic songs for the harvest season for different harvest seasons. So if you look deeper into it, you can see how much our culture was dependent on the harvest on the agricultural production. So they were like social exchanging, exchanging happening between Palestinians during it was the most beautiful part of the year, the harvest seasons. And many human relationships were built on that many knowledge, many different kinds of exchanges that this the lands has. The lands have provided the space for these important exchanges. So if you look for instance, nowadays at the olive harvest, we can see some of these old practices. For instance, today if we go to the olive harvest, the whole family would go, everyone would be singing together. There is some sort of festivity. It's like a wedding, you know, like the olive harvest for Palestinians. So these are practices that we try to preserve as well from our ancestors and practices and the Palestinian agriculture and heritage. The other practice is something we called the Bal, Israel Baniy, which is the Bal agriculture, which is the production that is depending on the rain only the rain. So you don't water it. So we have tomato that is based is only growing by the water of the rain. And the world ban comes from the God of fertility and rain, his his a can of night God. And we can see how even our old gods were very, very, very related to agriculture. So that's why till today we use the same name. We say a bal, or we use bal referring to the God of fertility because the tomato, for instance, would only be watered from the rain from the God of the of rain. So this is another thing that we try to preserve and there's a very famous village near Ramallah called the Darbal Mut. And farmers there which which are mainly women, they are still preserving this old ancestral method of farming. As we're speaking on reviving ancestral practices, I sort of want to go back to the foundation of farming and something that's an often overlooked political landscape. And that being the importance of soil. We talked briefly before the interview started about soil as a political notion globally, but also within Palestine. How do you personally see soil as political within Palestine? So for instance targeting lands for monoculture, that is a way of it. And destroying the agriculture land, that's another way, for instance, like if we see how around all the Israeli, Israeli colonies, we see how they throw their sewage on the soil to kill it. For instance, for Palestinians, in general, there's a very important value for the soil. Because it's a it's a significant symbol of our connection to the land. For instance, I remember meeting Palestinian refugees and Palestinians in exile. And it's funny how each time I ask these refugees, what do you want from Palestine? And it was always the same answer, bring us soil. It's very powerful if we look at it how this sense of belonging is connected to the soil of their land Palestine. And usually like when we think about politics, definitely soil is not the first thing that comes to mind, but at the end of the day, it is. The main thing when we talk about politics and when we talk about people under occupation, we're talking about land. And we see how there is a systematic systematic techniques are used against Palestinian soil, whether it was through throwing the sewage that comes from the legal Israelis colonies. And in the last time on the Palestinian soil, in order to do harm it and to kill it. Or whether it's through the capitalist, monocultural companies that use our soil for monocultural production. And bring up such an important point. Soil is not necessarily the first thing that comes to mind as political for many people, including myself, despite it being the very foundation of life. Just to switch gears a little, we've spoken briefly about the numerous challenges that farmers within Palestine face. But thankfully, there are also some very beautiful and very successful farms and examples within Palestine. You spoke earlier about Umselman farm. Can you speak a little more on success as you've seen with farms throughout Palestine despite the many challenges they face? Some of the successful farms, there are few youth farms that started as cooperatives and villages around Ramallah. And there's one also inside the city by also started by youngsters. So these cooperatives, I think I see them as successful examples. One also a very successful example was mushroom farm called Amorro that started a few years ago. And unfortunately, this farm was growing under Israeli military occupation that imposed on them unfair and unjust and post restrictions that had at the beginning they had to scale back. And then they needed support to continue and they had many attempts and then they started finding methods and ways to survive even though they were not able to cover the high cost to the restrictions of the occupation. And then I don't know like unfortunately like the Israeli authorities says began to stall their compost imports, which have to go through the Israeli ports. This is the only way way in and for containers, for instance, of compost where. stored at the Ashdood seaport with an average of 50 days each time, costing a really huge amount of money that reached to hundreds of thousands of dollars. And that became very evident and clear that they were targeting the farm because when the mushroom farm started a few months after, 60% of the Israeli mushroom was out of the West Bank. So we're saying a huge loss for the Israeli mushroom farms, which means that there has to be a direct connection between having this dependency on the mushrooms of Amoroo. Yes. So they had, and again, we talked about how any farm also they have the support from their government. And like if you want to compare what happened to Amoroo, why they having the support and the subsidy from the Israeli government, why the production of Amoroo was told and the losses accumulated. And of course they had tried to solve the problem to talk to the court authorities through lawyers with no answers. And they tried to come up with the solutions, but unfortunately the reality of the occupation and their practices, the unjust practices of it ended up with the farm to be shut down and with the owners now they have loans to pay to the bank. The owners of money that was paid to the Israeli authorities. We're now entering the second half of the episode where I'll be speaking with Yara Dwani. She's one of the managers and farmers at Umselaiman Farm. It's a CSA that's based in the billy in Avalid, it's in the occupied West Bank, specifically Area C. Yara, can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself and what you do? My name is Yara Dwani. I'm from Jerusalem. And I've been managing and farming at Umselaiman Farm for the last three years. And how did Umselaiman Farm start? So it started actually in 2016 by two guys, one from Gaza, Ahmed Abu Jayaab and one from Jerusalem, Mohab al-Alamy. We still work together. And they met each other by coincidence and they were talking about the situation in Palestine, the farming, the economic side, the unemployment, the youth. And the Muhammad had some background in organic farming. Um, Mohab didn't at the time and they decided to start a CSA farm, community supported agriculture farm, but they didn't have the land for it. So they started looking for a land that they can rent out or use and they met the owner of the land Abu Al-Alamansur, who's from Billaeen, a very humble and nice guy and he offered them the land actually for free to use and to regenerate and to do a project that is good for the community, for the youth, for Palestine. And they started, they started from zero and no fun policy, only working both of them on the land. They started with only eight members getting vegetables from the farm and slowly they were able to expand. Just for some background for our listeners, the farm is located in Billaeen. It's a village that's become recognized globally as a symbol of resistance because of the ongoing weekly protests and the documentary film Five Broken Cameras, as well as its successes in challenging the construction of the wall amongst other things. Yara, how does Umselman fit into this narrative? In many different ways, but most importantly is that the land of Umselman is situated in the land that was liberated, like the Israelis took 60% of the land and by the struggle of the people from the village, they were able to get back 30% and this 30% they call it "deliberated land" where the settlement is supposed to be if they didn't take it back. So it's very close to the wall, 100 meters facing a big, big settlement. It's in Aressee. So it also resembles a lot of what we can do with the land in Aressee, which is 62% of the land in the West Bank and mainly agriculture land. Even though where the farm is not an agriculture land is very rocky, it was very hard to do agriculture. So the choice of the land wasn't because it's good for agriculture. It doesn't have water, also. It was a very symbolic to actually motivate other farmers, other young people to start regenerating land and produce not only take back the land, but also be productive in the land. You know, as we're speaking about regenerating land within Palestine, does Berlin have any kind of agricultural history? I try to ask the people from the village about the history because it's important when you want to start a farm. I know that they used to grow wheat, for example, but also the land has been neglected for many years, even the olive trees. With no taking care of the land, the land stopped being productive anyway. It becomes a kind of wild but not an positive way for the land itself. Adding to that, a lot of grazing was done in that area, uncontrolled grazing, which resulted to land like soil erosion and the vanishing of the wild plants and the cover of the soil. It's a very rocky area. So you don't have top soil, you don't have fertility, you don't have three years. Regarding the water, it's called "Belain" because it's "Balain". It's "Balain". So it doesn't have a spring, it's no spring. So it's a very dry area. We have water from, like we pay for the water, we buy it, but originally there is no humidity in the soil, let's say. You've given us a little bit of a background on the agricultural history of the area, but can you give us a visual of what life is like in Balain, specifically reaching the farm and what it's like on the farm? So the farm is, let's say it's at the end of the village, like first you enter the village, you have the traditional mousque, many markets, pharmacy, grocery places, and then on your way to heading towards the wall, you will start seeing landscape, some greenhouses, also some farms, parks for the children also, and then you start seeing the wall, which is very close to all these lands, going around the land, and you start seeing the buildings of the settlement, Modain Al-Eith, one of the biggest settlements in Israel, if we're talking about the number of people living there, the population, and it's huge and it doesn't stop, like you see almost 180 degrees of buildings, non-stop. And yeah, and basically you can see how it's stopping the Palestinian communities to spread, like the whole idea of the wall, and the settlement is to stop the spreading of the Palestinian communities or villages or places to live, let's say. And when you're going to gross recent markets within Balain, what kind of produce are you seeing? Are you seeing many local Palestinian options? It's really hard to, like I've been through this before trying to know which products are local and which are not, because even me, I don't always have everything at the farm, and I need to buy, and I prefer not to buy Israeli products. So it's really hard to know, I know that there are some products that come from Palestinian farmers, like tomatoes, cucumbers, but there are so many products that come from Israel, especially fruits, I would say. And like mushroom, you don't have Palestinian mushrooms at the moment in the market, so this is one of the things that you know for sure, it's Israeli. Recently we have potato, and you can see the label, Palestinian potato. Carrots, we still don't have artichokes with potato. Like there are something that you know for sure, it's not Palestinian, but the traditional crop during the season, let's say it's probably Palestinian coming from local market. - Farmer. - I want to sort of transition to a topic that's at the root of Umsley-Mens work and that's the CSA model of farming. Umsley-Mens being the first CSA within Palestine. Having seen how the farm operates firsthand, what are some of the challenges you find the CSA model solves for Palestinian farmers? - I would say that most of the farmers around the world face the same problems. Of course, you have some more problems because we have an Israeli occupation and it's more complex. But in general, farmers, let's say in Palestine, first of all, they have problems getting money in advance. If you want to start planting in advance, you need to get the seeds, you need to get workers, you need to get tools, pay for water, whatever. And if you don't have the money yet because you didn't start selling it, then it would be very difficult to start. Second of all, marketing, like the farmers usually are too busy to think about where are they going to market. There are vegetables or go and stand in a market or if the markets can allow this quantity which products are you selling? So it's very tiring and frustrating to every time, every week to think where I'm going to go and sell my vegetables to whom is it going to be sold all of it or there's too many maybe in the market of the same products. And yeah, so the CSA brings solution to these problems. You have like for us at the farm, we say, okay, we're starting the season. We're opening up for membership. So people sign up, they register, they pay money in advance for a whole season, for three months in return for a weekly basket of what we have at the farm, okay? And that's really empowering the farmer because first of all, you have this community around you, you have this base and if anything goes wrong, you know that there are people who believe in your farm, your project, they know you're a person, there is communication, you know that whatever you plan, that will go to these people, you don't have to worry every week about where to go with your products, you have the money in advance and also you plan based on how many people you have. So if I, you know, I have 30 families, I don't plan for 10 or for 50. I plan more or less for 30 families. Also, I think it's really good for consumers themselves. We like to call them members, not consumers, but they feel that they are part of something, they can come to the farm to volunteer or to just spend time. They also, we have this group that people share recipes and they talk, what's this plant, what do I do with it, how to use it. So it's a really nice thing to be part of, we also deliver the baskets to a succachinic cultural center and people come and take it. So there's this task in your weekly routine that you go and take the basket and you figure out what you're gonna do. And also it changed the consumer behavior towards foods. Like it's a process, like we have members since five years already and you can really see the difference in how people are consuming. Like they don't get to choose what comes in the basket, for example, and this is something that most of the time people complain about. Like I don't want this, I want that, I want more of this and less of that and we tell them you cannot choose. And I think it changed something in the mind of the people that okay, what do I do with the products, like they have to use it during the week, and they have to know that some of the things might not be tasteful but it's really healthy. So they learn also that to take care of their body, some people come and ask me why I don't have tomato in December. And so they learn that tomato zucchini is not seasonal. So if you're eating it, probably it's coming from greenhouses, chemicals, controlled environment and that's not healthy for you to eat unseasonal products. If they ask me why I don't have, I don't know, cauliflower every week or every day, you explain that these crops take so long, they say four months, they take a lot of resources. So it's really based a lot on communication and trust between the former and the consumer. And if one season, one of the crops go bad, maybe from the seeds, from the climate, you just explain it to the members and you don't have to worry about it because there's this sharing of risk between them. And that's why I think it's a really great model. It has, you need to really be good at planning the season because you need to make sure that every week you have certain products for a certain number of people. But once you get that, it makes your life easier as a farmer and you don't have to worry about many things to usually worry about. And you don't also, like what's good about CSA, that you cut all the middlemen in between. Like there is no grocery shop, there is no delivery. There's us and the people who eat. And I think that also doesn't take away our rights as farmers or there's not someone who is in control economically and just force us to pay what he thinks we should pay, sell. Sorry. So yeah, I think it has many different advantages. And me, even me, if I have an extra crop and the season hasn't started yet, I go crazy. I don't know what to do with the crop and I don't want to throw it away. I don't want to give it to any grocery shop and be mixed with the chemical and the crop that's full of pesticides. So with the time I became more and more convinced that it makes life easier for farmers and for consumers. Have you noticed more interest in CSAs in Palestine since Omslamen has been established? - No, I think, like I've seen in the last years a movement growing, but mainly in the city, actually, unfortunately, but excuse me. The farms around us, first of all, they're not many. And second of all, it's mainly greenhouses, tomatoes and cucumbers around the year with pesticides. Even though the farmers come to visit us and we have good relationship with them, but I think it takes some time to really be convinced. And we try to work with one of the farmers. We give him money and seeds and told them, okay, plan this for us and we'll pay you an advance. And every Sunday, get me what you have. And it was good, but it didn't continue the seasons following that. But I would say there is a growing movement mainly in the city, because I don't know, maybe people in the city are tired of the city, maybe because they're more privileged, maybe, because they have this longing for the land. People in the village are mainly going to university, getting higher degrees, getting jobs, doctors, architects. Because I think they suffered as a farming community and they lost maybe land and knowledge and the interest. And working in the land is really, really physically challenging. It's not like, why would someone be eight hours in the sun in the winter working? So you really need to see the value of it personally. And as a whole for Palestine, for the community to be convinced to do it. But the community in Inramallah has started to come to the farm, come to the workshops, come to volunteer. There are some operatives starting here and there, small operatives. So I think it's growing. And but you also need to remember that we don't get any support from the government, from the Palestinian Authority. Usually in every country you have a lot of subsidies for the farmers because it's not logical that the farmer has to regenerate land and get all the equipment and be sustainable. So we are saying that we are completely alone and it's really hard to start from zero. People also the price of the land here, it's really expensive. So unless you already have the land from your family or you can run a rent out land, it's really difficult to buy land for young people who are not rich, let's say. I know, I'm seeing men started out as a farm that wasn't dependent on any outside funding. But how do farmers within Palestine generally receive funding for their farms? Is it through any kind of government subsidies or funding of any kind from the people? PA or foreign NGOs or bank financing of their own savings, what do you generally see? So I think like farmers around they get support from let's say the Minister of Agriculture, but in very specific projects like implementing a greenhouse or digging a well, which is good, but it's still not enough, I think, because you need to also be more diverse and you need to also follow up with the farmers like trainings or they really know the need of the farmer, each farmer. So I think they get their aid from sometimes a project like the Minister of Agriculture or and big NGOs, but that's not sustainable because it can stop at any time and you're already damaging the land by using pesticides so it doesn't matter how much money you put into it at the end, it will die and it cannot produce anymore for you, but I need to clarify the no fund policy for a Muslim man. It started as a no fund policy because they were trying to build a self-sufficient model starting from zero and also against all these EU-USA funds. So it was important to start with no funds, but after two years or two years and a half when I actually started getting involved, we discussed about making it okay to take funds for the purpose of education. So if we need to do courses, workshops, training or do Arabic curriculum for the natural farming techniques and to be very specific, take from local NGOs, private donors, let's say, and conditions. So I think it's really, really important to see it as not black and white. Okay, we can say no to funds, but at the end, funds are in the country. Most of the people work with NGOs, most of the money is coming from outside and it's not our fault. We live in a very specific circumstances. I think what is important is not to say no to funds is to know where to take the fund from in which circumstances, what conditions, if you just take the funds and do what they want you to do without regards to what you want to do in the project, then of course not. And now, I always think of that when we talk about the funds, like the landlord gave us the land for free. This is a fund, some sort of fund. One year ago, we had an accident, the tent at the farm that burned, we lost all the seeds and equipment, and in one week, one post on Facebook, we were able to recover all the, all the what we lost. And this is a kind of fund. So I think it's really important to not be like very narrow-minded and say, yeah, no fund. It's great if you can do it with no fund, it's really great. But if you're talking about regenerating lands from scratch, bringing machines, buying soil, having a well-dicked, then yeah, you need to actually be clever about when to take it, how to use it, and be very clear what you want to use it on and not having someone to tell you what to use it for. So now, five years later, we take funds, but not like we made sure that the CSA itself to be self-sufficient. So the basket covered the course of the CSA, because we wanted to be a model that every farmer can implement it. But the farm has became more than just a CSA. You know, we have a seed library, we do workshops, training, internship. So we can just stick around with the CSA and say no funds, but we can also expand and do something useful with the money and take it from people who want to be part of these kind of projects, Palestinians who have money and they want to donate. I don't see any bad in that or anything wrong. So I think it's really important to reach a level of being selective with funds. And also remember that some things you might not consider it as funds, it is funds. So yeah, I think I had to make clear my opinion about funds. It's a big cut topic now. I had seen some of the plans for the future development of Omslayman through the crowdfunding campaign actually, the one that's active right now. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about what the plans are for the future of Omslayman? So yeah, as well as the CSA, we're also trying to like this year we will add some animals to the farm. We were actually doing a crowdfunding campaign to do that and to expand our production. So we're going to have chickens and bees and maybe goats in the future to also make it a complete cycle and to make it available for our members to have organic eggs and honey and milk or cheese. So yeah, we are keeping, we want to also make more products available in the basket. Maybe bread one day, honey eggs, not to have to go to 10 different places to buy your things that you need for the house. Regarding the education, we started training for five months, two years ago, for five Palestinians, three months, sorry. It was like every, it was three days a week intensive to learn how to start the season from 8 to 10. It was really interesting and something for the first time we did. But then we had to slow down a bit because we needed to focus on producing and then we had the natural building course like we built a workshop area with some people from Palestine, from all over the country. And that was for the first time having people from Haifa, from places I've never heard of as Palestinian, from Jerusalem and it was really nice to have this bridge bringing Palestinians all together no matter where you are from. And we had an internship this year for two months for a Palestinian from Haifa who's joining our team this year. It's just going to start working with us. But what we try to do is not have formal education. So it's based a lot on how self-education, a lot of experimenting also. You help us out at the farm, you work with us and then you get to a level that you can manage your own farm at some point. And that comes with the practicing observation, talking, explaining. But I prefer that the person learn by themselves from their observation and ask question if they have. But what we're trying to do is to have an Arabic curriculum on the internet because most of the people are not reading so much these days. So we're planning to do videos like educational videos, how to plan this, how to prune that. We're going to have four workshops in February every Saturday. It's open for everyone. And already 35 people signed up and we have to actually choose because it cannot take more than 15. So it's the first time we open for workshops in a really long time because of Corona. And obviously from what I see the change is that people are really in need of these sort of activities and workshops. Like people are really bored of the routine of the lockdown, no traveling, just paying the days in the city. And what's from what I saw the number of people who want to attend that there is a really big need in doing something different, something in the land, outside, outdoor with other people. So you also try to see when is a good time to bring people to the farm because you also need to focus a lot on the on being with the team during the daily maintenance and the planning and the farming. But once we feel that okay we're stable, we accomplished a lot in the season, we are ready to take more people. But yeah, I think mainly I can consider also education is what we do with our members, is also education. And what we do with our visitors when they come, they ask questions about the farm, the people from the village. So it's really in different ways. I wouldn't say it's just courses or workshops. It's not formal, but when we do workshops we also explain a lot of things that are needed to understand the plants and the farming how it works. What do you think the importance of providing these educational workshops is like both within the community and I mean the community are large with them Palestine. I think it's important because education is, it's result into action at the end, like the action that we do usually come from education, usually come from something we learned or unlearned. And me personally, I got into agriculture because I want to take a course for 10 days permaculture course. And it changed my whole life, my whole thinking what I do in my life, I used to work in an NGO. So I think it could be a door to a lot of really big changes in the community because it's all about education. Like, and you need to try to give an alternative model of education, not the one that you see in schools and universities because obviously that failed. And we need to think of alternative ways of learning and also learning within nature, like nature is the biggest teacher for us. And we are so separated from it. So how can we bring education, nature, also traditions, culture, seeds together in one place? I think the form is one of these places because you have the village, the community from the village also in workshops, people from the village come Palestinians from other places that usually they don't meet Palestinians from different places in Palestine meet each other. So I think it's really important because it changes behavior, it motivates you, it makes you learn more about yourself, the place where you live, the community you're part of, and it opens up your mind. Let's say. Well, we're speaking about learning and changing attitudes towards agriculture. I wanted to speak with you about heirloom seeds. Preservation of seeds has been something that's been important for generations of farmers worldwide and something that's become increasingly difficult with the prevalence of GMO seeds. I know Omslay Mountain maintains their own seed collection. Can you speak on the importance of collecting heirloom seeds within Palestine? So yeah, I think it's really important to save your own seeds because you have a lot of power by having your own seeds and in many countries if you want to control the farmers and the diet and the consumption, you control the seeds like Monsanto, like many companies. So I think not only because you have a power when you have your own seeds and freedom, you can plant whatever you want whenever you want, knowing the crop that you are planting, but also it's very important to know that the seeds adapt to the soil, to the climate, to the water, to everything. So if you use the same seeds again and again and it will become stronger, it will create its own immunity adaptation. But if we use seeds from abroad, you don't know the source of the seed, the environment where it grew, you also risk your season and your crop. So at Omslay Mountain, we've been trying to save seeds since we started, so we plant crops and really part of it to give us seeds for the next season. At the same time, we're not able to get an amount of her loom local seeds enough for production. So and the source in the country, either the her loom, which is not so many and diversity, even though Vivian is doing an amazing job on that, but we still need more and more seeds to be able to do big seasons. The other source in Palestine is Israeli seeds and we don't want that. So we try to get her loom seeds from companies that we trust or organization, usually abroad, just to make sure it's organic and it's not GMO. And at the same time, we try to save local her loom seeds. So by, I don't know, some years later maybe we have our seeds from the farm, we have self-sufficiency from seeds. So but now we have the mix because we want to make sure that we have a good season and a clean season. Also, like we what we try to do at the farm is to produce crops that you don't really find in the Palestinian market because we want to also support the BTS, we want people to soak buying Israeli products. And that could be a challenge in finding seeds. Like we plant artichoke, we plant different kinds of carrots, lettuce, really a lot of different things that usually you don't find. And for that reason, you need to get seeds that are not present in the library of the Ministry of Agriculture. So you get it for the first time and you try to propagate them yourself and have self-sufficiency in the future from seeds. You mentioned the importance of growing crops that you don't usually see within the Palestinian agricultural market. We've been speaking broadly about some of the challenges that Palestinian farmers face that dramatically affect the selection you might see within the market. As a farmer who's farming in areas see, can you speak on some of the challenges that are specific to farmers within areas see? Mainly you have the general challenges that you face in any farm in areas which is not having control over your resources like water, like building a small farmhouse for accommodation or even a greenhouse or even a fence. So that's the normal challenges. Some people face the assaults of the settlers that we don't have this problem because there is a wall. That's true, if it's a good thing or not. But that keeps them away from us. But we have the weekly protests from the village to the wall, the Palestinians, and then the soldiers throw some etyrgas bombs and that could create fire also in the area, especially in the summer. You have the risk of getting the structure demolished at any point. Like at the farm we have three greenhouses, we have a room for accommodation and chat. So you risk on a daily basis having them to come and demolish it. And I think it's very empowering for me to be in a place like that because each day you kind of challenge the reality. And at the end of the day if nothing bad goes like happened, you have hope that you are really doing a change. But I always talk about something that affect me that I don't hear it usually from Palestinian, which is the visual side of it. Like seeing the ugly settlement and the wall on a daily basis and the sound effect, like they are constantly constantly drilling in the land building. So you don't have any moment of relaxation because you always hear this rapid speed buildings going up. And then the next day you see one building that is there. And my colleague Anna said the farm always say that yeah, but it's also motivating. Like when he sees this, like he tell me always if there's no settlement, I won't be able to work. Like I don't motivate myself. Like seeing this for some people it could be really have a negative effect, but I agree that also like you can really see the difference in what they do with the land and what we do with the land. And you can kind of feel who's the owners of the land. Like how can you, how do you take care of the land and what do you do that how do you manage the resources tells you a lot about the people living in the land. So yeah, I think it's a very complex, like the first time I went to the farm, I was just, it was very overwhelming for me. I didn't go back for six months, like the first time I visited. I was coming back from Spain. I was living in a very nice island and beautiful colors. And then I came back to reality, let's say. And I couldn't handle it. It was just too big and it was like a big monster that will come and eat us one day. And then you go and by the time you are there every day, you actually start to focus more on the inside of the farm and not look on the what's behind. I could really start appreciating the beauty, the details of the farm itself, the people who come there, the energy, the colors, the transformation, the hard work. And you just, it becomes like a wallpaper. It becomes like just, it doesn't affect you anymore the way it did when I first got to the farm. And I think it's really amazing to see this transformation because I see the look on people's face when they visit the farm for the first time. And I usually don't ask volunteers to work in the first day because they're just really overwhelmed. So like first day, just take it easy and yeah and then you really start getting into the details of the place itself and what you are creating with other people. And you've mentioned this risk of demolition and that's we go back to the very beginning where this is due to the inability to get permits. Yeah exactly it's a it's something that you never get actually especially in areas. But when we first started at the farm we got an order to stop building and we didn't of course because we don't like to be told what to do and we just continued like because for us it's like it's our land and we're just doing our job and we just like don't tell us that you cannot build and if they want to demolish like in come and demolish and we'll build again and I think that's the spirit that we need like to to not just take things for granted. Yeah I cannot build okay I'm not going to build okay no I cannot cross okay that's not cross I think it's really important to also challenge the reality and the situation and we need the room we need to build a room because we have volunteers we sleep at the farm we live at the farm in some months so we need to it's a way to be there also it's important for the farm and yeah you just have to trust that things will work out somehow and yeah until now thank god we haven't faced any demolition so far and yeah hopefully it never happens but in case it happens I think we just continue what we do. Yara thank you so much for being a part of this podcast are there any final thoughts you'd like to leave with our listeners. I would like to add that the farm is not a place only to work and produce I think many of the people who come to the farm come not because they like farming like even my colleague and us for work full time for now one year now he liked the spirit and he liked the alternative way of what the what how it could be that we live in Palestine how you can bring a group of people and work together and eat together and share this experience together and be productive all the time we're producing if not knowledge we're producing products or trees or biomass so I think it's really important to think of it not only as a farm but also a space of learning and sharing and living in an alternative way and I think considering the situation in Palestine we need these spaces and we need these support system where young people can feel that they are useful that they make they are change makers and that they are actually leading their decision and they're like by themselves without having to respond to any let's say any official authority and I think that's really really empowering for us the people who are part of the farm and during the pandemic we were maybe one of the few projects that didn't stop and that gave me a lot of power also to see that I don't have to worry about my job or my salary or my work because the farm doesn't stop like in any situation we're able to be there on a daily basis in really bad winter or very hot summer or situation like the pandemic we are really there present which protect the land and which also protect us as people working in the land because yeah it's it's really a way of living and I'm not saying that all projects should be farms but all projects should have this model self-sufficient economy a group of people sharing the passion the motivation and not only having to go there just because it's work like you need to also learn through what you do in life and enjoy it and that wraps up episode one of Palestine in between I wanted to thank both of our guests Raya Ziyada and Yara Dawani for sharing their knowledge and experiences with us today I also want to thank our listeners for tuning into this episode and we hope you'll be back for the next one this podcast was meeting collaboration with the Center for Palestine Studies at Columbia University, Lift of Volumes, Lena Montsour, and myself your host, Cherisod.