Susie Wolff: Managing Director of F1 Academy

Thank you to NutriFull for sponsoring today's episode. Have you ever noticed that when something feels off in your life, your stress, your sleep, your nutrition, it shows up everywhere? The same thing happens with your hair, and if you've ever dealt with thinning, shedding, or hair that just doesn't feel quite like it used to, you know it's not just about what you see in the mirror. It's the way it quietly chips away at your confidence. Well, NutriFull Hair Growth Nutri-Suitables can help because they support hair growth from within, and the change shows up everywhere else too. NutriFull takes a whole body approach targeting key root causes that can hold back hair growth like stress, hormones, and nutrition, and they're clinically tested hair growth supplements deliver real results like visibly thicker, fuller hair that can grow longer. Those hair growth supplements are physician formulated with drug-free ingredients to help you grow stronger hair that looks thicker and fuller. They also offer multiple targeted formulas designed for different life stages, from postpartum to parimenopause, because your hair needs aren't one size fits all. Get hair that changes everything with NutriFull. For a limited time, NutriFull is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to NutriFull.com and enter the promo code "Second Life." That's "nutriFull.com" spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L. "Promo Code Second Life." That's "nutriFull.com promo code Second Life." Hi everyone, I'm Hillary Kerr, the co-founder and chief content officer of Who What Wear, and this is Second Life, a podcast spotlighting women who have truly inspiring careers. We're talking about their work journeys, what they've learned from the process of setting aside their doubts or fears, and what happens when they embark on their Second Life. Today on the show, I'm speaking with F1 Academy's Managing Director, Susie Volfe. Susie began cart racing when she was just eight years old, and with her sights set on F1, she eventually transitioned into professional racing in 2001. She briefly got a seat in British Formula 3 before moving on to DTM, the German Touring Car Series for seven years. Susie finally made it to F1 when she joined Williams Racing as a development driver in 2012 and committed full-time to the F1 team in 2013. In 2014, she became the first woman in 22 years to take part in an F1 race weekend at the British Grand Prix. After retiring from professional racing in 2015, she co-founded the nonprofit Dare to Be Different and transitioned to the business side of racing, becoming team principal and later CEO of Venturi Racing. And, in 2023, she was made Managing Director of F1 Academy, a women's only racing series. Susie also recently added author to her resume with her debut book, Driven, all about how she made the leap from the driver's seat to the boardroom. I am so excited for you to hear her story. Now, on Second Life, it's Susie Volfe. Susie, you ready to go? Let's do this! Okay, great. So, we always like to start this podcast at the beginning. So, what did you study in school and much more importantly? What did you want to be when you grew up? Well, since the age of 13, when I was taken to watch a Formula 3 race at Dunington Park, I wanted to be a racing driver. I had this dream in my head that I could make it to Formula One. Never once occurred to me that there weren't any women in Formula One. That was my big dream. At the age of 18, I was ranked 15th in the world, Championships of CARTing, but everyone told me, "When you need a plan B, you need to go and study because being a racing driver is a great dream, but what are you really going to do?" So I went to Edmund University to study international business. I only lasted one year and then I left to pursue my dream of becoming a racing driver. I love that. So, when I was doing research, I read that you started GoCart Racing at age 8. Tell me a little bit about how you first found yourself doing this or how that interest was initially sparked in what you loved about it. Well I think there's no way an eight-year-old picks a sport and decides to become really good at it because you realize so much on your appearance to take you places and to see things and certainly to even get to a car track. You need a family that's willing to bring it there. I really liked that because my mum met my dad when she went to buy her first motorbike from his shop and my grandfather raced motorcross bikes. My dad was obviously into bikes. I had a motorbike from the age of two and Hillary, I was just that annoying little girl that hated losing. I love it. I loved speed. I loved the adrenaline and I had an older brother who was only 15 months older than me and when I look back now, my parents and how thankful I am, they never differentiated between selling daughters. So I never once thought that I was doing anything unusual for a girl and I wasn't your stereotypical tomboy. I asked for pink sideboards for my go cards. I loved Barbie. But that's what really introduced me to the sport. I think people underestimate the age of eight, you're not thinking about a career or the future. You're just doing what you love in the moment and how grateful I am that I've found the thing I love doing at such an early age and had the environment and the family support that allowed me to follow through. So for anyone who doesn't follow the sport or isn't as involved, can you talk to me a little bit about some of the skills that both you had perhaps innately and then also needed to develop as a kid because there are certain things of like being comfortable with speed or being interested in adrenaline but also the balance and sense of time and place. Talk to me about the physicality of it and then also the mental skills that you need to develop to be a successful driver. Well, I think the most important thing for people to realize, especially parents, I went on to become a racing driver and obviously made it to Formula One in the end. The first time I got in a go card, I was not an obvious talent. I wasn't that fast. I was scared to make matters worse when I was getting past, I was kind of getting push when they were overtaking and I remember coming into the pits and saying to my dad, "I really don't like it out there." I mean, that's scary. And he said, "Okay, Tuts and Tuts was his nickname for me." He said, "We've got two options now. We put the car back in the truck and we head home." Or, "You go back out there. Try and go faster." And when they hit you, you're just going to hit them back twice as hard. So I think, Hillary, you can guess which option I went for. Yes, yes, I have a sense. And I think I was very competitive. So then as soon as I started, I thought, "Okay, I pushed myself. I was happy to push myself." And that competitive spirit really drove me. And on top of that, I was a very determined little girl. So I think those character traits were what really propelled me in the sport. But I definitely wasn't a natural talent at the beginning and my parents had patience. I think they really only thought we were doing it for fun anyway. But I look back and I think it's a really good lesson for me and the parent now because children don't have an incredible ability in the first moment of trying something. But I think the fact that my character fitted it and that I really enjoyed it was what led me to want to do it more and more and then become quite addicted to it. And that's such an interesting point. It's not the skill set right off the bat. It's the passion. Definitely. So all of this led to a fair amount of very early success. By the age of 13, you were named British woman, Cart Racing Driver of the Year, which is wild. And by 18, you were named Best Female Cart Driver in the world after competing at the Junior World Carding Championships, which all of this sounds phenomenal. But I also read that this award made you rethink how you're being perceived in your sport. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Well, I'm not really proud of any of those awards because they were all about being the top female and the truth was, Hillary, there weren't many women competing. And I wasn't there to be the top female. You know, I was in a sport that we wore a helmet when we competed, so you didn't see who the driver was or the gender of the driver. And what I love about sport is it's so objective. It's black and white. The stopwatch never lies. Your results don't lie. So I think from that perspective, it meant that, okay, I just had to focus on the performance because the performance would never lie. But I never said, I don't know path to prove what a woman could do in sport. I simply wanted to be the best. And I remember at the World Championships, I'd finished 15th overall, which okay, it wasn't a podium, but it was still quite a solid result. Yeah. And when I was called up on to the stage for the top female, I thought, did I even see another girl in the competition? Best of one. Yeah. But I think it was a moment I realized that my journey was going to be probably different than I anticipated. That makes sense. Okay. So you had mentioned that you'd spent a brief amount of time in university. Talk to me about the decision that you made when you realized, like, I'm not going to keep on with this business degree. I'm going to race professionally because I'm always interested in the amount of time it takes between the thought entering your head and then the decision actually being made. Because sometimes that can build over a long period of time. Sometimes it's like the thought comes, the action comes. So what was that process like for you? Well, I'd only go into university because of other people's expectations. of me. I knew I wanted to be a racing driver. That was my dream and my goal since I was 13. But it's incredible how other people's opinions and assumptions and expectations on you push you on a path which actually isn't the path you want to be on. And I had completed my first year of university. I was trying to race at the same time with study. I wasn't really doing either very well. And I remember going back to start my second year and I was sitting in a big economic lecture and I had that moment where I thought, "What am I doing here? I am just a sheep that's following the flock. I'm here because everyone tells me I should be here. I don't want to be here. I want to be chasing my dream of being the best racing driver I can be." So I walked out. I like to say I contemplated life. The truth was I was building up the courage to call home. Right? And my dad answered and I said, "I want to leave university. I want to focus on my racing." And he said, "Okay, two, two, two, back and pack your stuff up. I'll come and click two in the morning and by then you have to have a plan." That's amazing. Amazing. And one week later I was driving down to Silverstone, which is the home of the British Grand Prix in Formula One. I bought the local paper, rented a room and I had loaded these house. Got a job as the marshal on the track, the one that waves the flags and spent every minute of every day trying to be the best racing driver I could be. And that's when the results really came. So I would say it wasn't a light bulb moment but it was a strong instinct and I'm a big believer in trusting your gut instinct because sometimes we just allow other people's expectations always to send us off on a path but only we really know what's right path for us and sometimes you just need to be brave enough to follow your own path and not the trodden path that everyone else has followed. In some ways it's got to have been so scary because here all of these people around you who are older than you and who know more than you are telling you this one thing but then to be able at such a young age to tap into that inner voice, I mean that's really remarkable. I think that was the big part of how I was brought up. First of all the feeling that I know I could call home. Yeah. And secondly my parents were very supportive. I think my mom was slightly disappointed that she didn't get her graduation picture. But on the other side I think that very strong family foundation and knowing that I had that to fall back on if everything went wrong that played a big part in me being bold enough to take that decision. Well I am going to remember that going forward in how I parent we want them to feel radically accepted so that they can actually listen to their intuition. I have no idea what training is like or what the schedule is like or what you're working on. Any of that can you walk me through what a training day back then looked like for you? Well the great thing is because I started racing so young my body kind of transformed with me as I grew older but when I made it into DTM which is German touring cars and then Formula One it's a lot of GeForce going through your bodies. So one of the areas I really had to work on was my neck and I knew a lot of people thought that a woman couldn't be competed in Formula One because of physicality and I also didn't know because women have 30% less muscle than men but I knew how I needed to feel in a race car that I was in control and that I was never suffering from not being able to turn the steering wheel but it was intense training. It was a very strict training regime and when I got to Formula One I had to build up my neck a lot so much so that I had a couple of times people saying to me what do you do to get a neck like that? I mean it's huge and when I stopped I actually within I think three months had lost nearly four centimeters circumference because the little neck muscles they're quite small so they build up quickly but they go down quickly so I became really you know heavily build up but if you look at Formula One drivers they're not big muscle guys because if you can actually be small and quite compact it's advantageous in the cars. Because you're lighter and therefore can go faster? Well not because you're lighter because you have to have ballast in the car anyway so it equals out but the smaller you are the more the engineers have space to play with in the car and they can move the ballast around to help the performance of the car. Interesting so my dad's a former military jet pilot so at 14s. I had the good fortune of working with the Le Mans team with Bentley once upon a time ago and going on that racetrack and I remember feeling like the amount of core strength that it takes to withstand those G forces feels intense was it a lot of core work as well in addition to knack or was it really like that was the one area where you felt like this is where the training needs to focus. No you're absolutely right you know I think G force until you've really experienced it and I always say think of being on a really fast roller coaster and trying to cold your head straight but the G force going through your body's immense so you're absolutely right it's the core it's the back and then on top of that we had to hit the brake pedal really hard so my left leg is my much stronger leg than my right because the right only did the accelerator so although there's a new on seas you had to deal with in training. I would never have thought about that piece of it that's so interesting okay so back to 2001 is that when you left and decided to embark on a professional career after you left university yep okay so you rent the room you have this job you start working through things did you have a six month goal a year long goal did you have a clear path were you figuring it out as you went what was your mentality like at this point in time and what was the plan. I'm very goal driven so I knew exactly where I wanted to be in win and the great thing in sport and racing it's a very clear ladder up to Formula One you look like a pyramid so you know where you are you know where you need to get to so it's all quite structured from that sense and I am a very structured and disciplined person so that fitted me really well and I knew exactly which team I needed to get into and I was the one that was super-sized with all of my engineering notes all of my track maps everything was color coordinated you know in racing it's all about the marginal games the preparation and the attention to detail and that can be exhausting at times but it's also a big part of who I am anyway so that's a part of the sport that I was really able to dive into and relish and that really fitted my character. What would a prep day look like ahead of a race? Well a lot of people presume that racing is very much down to individual it's not a team sport but the truth is it's very much a team sport you need to spend a lot of time with your engineer because your engineer and the car if they are not with you on the journey you have no chance of success on track so you spend a lot of time with your team you spend a lot of time with your engineer preparing the race again you spend just as I was finishing a lot of time in simulators because the sport was really leaning into simulation at that point so that by the time you arrive at the racetrack you feel like you've already done a hundred laps that you're already prepared because you've done the visualization you've done the training you've done the work with your engineer and then it's just a case of really going through the motions when you get to the track and dealing with whatever the track throws up or the weather throws up but everything is really thought through down to the last detail. Talk to me about the simulators how close does that experience get to the actual race? Well I'm showing my age here because when I was in Formula One they were just starting to become a thing whereas now it's incredible how the technology has really developed and you will find no young driver that isn't preparing for a race weekend in a simulator and it's incredible just how close it is to the real thing we've actually had a couple of instances in the sport of people only driving simulators then getting put into a race car and being incredibly quick. Wow. So I think it's showing that the technology is really close obviously there's elements that are very difficult to simulate and that is things like the weather and the wind and the track temperature but I mean there's a lot of very smart people that work on trying to get them as close to the real thing as possible and they're doing a very good job. Ah that's so cool. So you started moving up through the ranks professionally reaching podiums getting nominated for the British young driver of the year award there's not the word female in there and eventually getting a C in Formula 3. So I have to assume that people's expectations of you also grew or perhaps the expectations you had on yourself as you were having success. How did that pressure impact you or having already sort of thrown off expectations in terms of university did that allow you to just focus on what your own expectations were? It was always a very high-pressure environment when you're going out to compete. I think there's nobody that doesn't feel pressure. I think the really good ones know how to channel the pressure that it becomes actually something positive. I always say it's like a superpower. I love now when I get the adrenaline kind of surging through my body. It's a great feeling but I think at the beginning at that age the only person that had the high expectations was myself and the person that put the most pressure on me was myself and I also sometimes feel sorry for that young girl when I look back because I was very hard on myself and I think sometimes my own self-worth was wrapped up in how good my race results were whereas actually I try and tell the next generation now in a fun academy you are good no matter what your results are because you can control everything when you're out on track. You can only ever give your best and on certain days your best will be enough and on other days it won't be enough but pick yourself back up and learn from your mistakes, learn from the weaknesses but certainly it's a journey and I think the more success you have then you get more confidence and then more confidence you know that translates into performance and it's all really kind of momentum and when that momentum builds that's when you can feel the real possibility to achieve great things. We are also hard on ourselves but I love that you're trying to reframe it for the next generation and make it a lot. more balanced. That sounds wonderful. I'm trying. That's all you can do, right? So then a few years in in 2005, you had a setback when you broke your ankle and couldn't race in the upcoming season. Tell me a little bit about that time and like what does one do when they're sidelined in that way? I don't know the physicality of it. Can you walk me through that piece? Well, I had so much momentum in my career at that point. I was ready to make the move up into Formula 3. That dream I'd had is a 13-year-old going to watch that Formula 3 race and the pyramid is quite simple for those who don't know motor sports, Formula 3, Formula 2, Formula 1. So I was getting close to my dream and I ended up having an accident and breaking my ankle in eight places and I would love to tell you it was a high speed crash, something glamorous, but I was out buying milk for my grandma and I slipped on ice. No! Yeah. Wait, which ankle left or right? Left, the breaking ankle. Oh no. Literally the breaking ankle. The breaking ankle literally. Yeah. When you fell, did you immediately know that you had done something serious? I am immediately new. Yeah. And then some people picked me up and my foot was just dangling from the wrong direction. So it was a bad one. And what followed was without a doubt one of the toughest periods of my life. It's incredible. I think I'd compartmentalised and it's only now, last year, I obviously wrote my memoir and I was forced to go back to that time. And that was difficult because it was a really, really tough time and I fell into a bit of a black hole because I lost my race license, I lost my sponsor, I lost my seat in the F3 team and I didn't really know how I was going to literally get back on my feet. But again, yeah, this gut instinct that I wasn't going to give up because I got this far and I often think back now, whatever I had given up just then just before I ended up getting my big break. So I think for anyone going through a tough moment for anyone that's sometimes doubting, just trust your gut instinct. It's not always that you push through and always have to make it to the end. I had to change goals of mine because I haven't made them happen. But I very much trusted my instinct then to say, I'm going to keep going and thankfully I got an opportunity to get back in a race car and start testing. And just six months after that accident, well actually after I recovered and I was back in a car, I was signed as a work space service bench driver and that was my big break, not just for my career, but for my whole life. It changed the trajectory of everything and how close I was to that not happening is sometimes scary to think about. It's interesting how one break that was bad led to a break that was good. Exactly. Also, it's interesting because this is now the second time you're talking about tuning into those instincts and the importance of that. And I think about that all the time, especially for women, I feel like oftentimes I have an instinct for something and I sometimes have not valued that instinct because on some level, the instinct feels female. It feels not grounded necessarily in data or it doesn't feel like there's necessarily an apparatus to support it. Something in me just knows. And the older I've gotten, the more I've realized like every single time I've had that internal voice and ignored it, it's been the wrong choice. The information is coming from my lived experience, from my understanding of the market, of all of these different things. And if we can tap into that inner voice, that instinct and trust it, it feels like the sky's the limit, not just women, but for anyone. If you can really hone and listen to that inner voice, it can change everything. I'm with you, hello, there's also been moments, probably more my business career because you're right when you've got your own career in your hands. You kind of have to only trust yourself. And I always say, well, if you don't believe in yourself, how should other people believe in you? You have to be your own biggest champion. But I've also had instances where I might instinct to say one thing, but people around me have said, no, no, this or the data shown something different. But I think it is being empowered to follow your instinct because we're in a day and age now where there's so much information, there's so many choices, there's so much content that I think it's even more important now than before of really trusting your instinct and not being thrown off a different path because of outside expectations or outside noise. Right. Okay, so let's talk about Mercedes-Benz. So here we are, you went through rehab and then six months after healing yourself, the fact that you were in a car again, that just feels insane to me. So walk me through how the bad break led to the good break in 2006 with Mercedes. I was testing in another series called World Series, where I know and was very much trying to get a budget and a seat for the following season. But then got called to compete in this one off German touring car test. And a lot of you kind of said to me, you must be so nervous on that day because it was everything writing on it. But the truth is, when you've got nothing, you've got nothing to lose. So I just gave it all I had and didn't worry too much about the outcome, just worried about doing a good job on the day. And that led to me being offered. It was a one year contract that I ended up staying for seven seasons. It was actually my choice to leave because it was that one opportunity that just really changed the course of my life. And I grabbed the opportunity with both hands, the first race, the big boss said to me, listen, you've got the chance for a great career for us, but you need to learn German and learn it fast. That's what our culture is. And within three months, I was having conversations in German and with the six months I was fluent. That is not an easy language to learn. Well, I was lucky I had a little bit for school because I ended up moving over to Germany to really immerse myself to Switzerland, the German speaking part. And I remember after three months of German lessons, he said, you're moving to Switzerland, well, you're going to be fluent in three months. And I said, never. I mean, I was walking around with a dictionary, but he was right because putting yourself and immersing yourself and forcing yourself to speak at every single day, that's what made it easier and then living so close to Stuttgart where the Mercedes-Benz headquarters were. I just immersed myself in the culture and that really was the changing point in my life. And certainly moving abroad, when you move into a new environment, when you really challenge yourself, that's when you grow the most. And it's not comfortable. It's not comfortable at all. But I look back and I think my goodness, in those months, that's where I transformed. So I think sometimes forcing yourself out of your comfort zone is really important. So as you mentioned, this is a job that really changed your life in no small part because this is the first major paycheck, right? You're going to laugh at this story, but Hillary, it was transformational in that I suddenly had a Mercedes-Benz in my driveway and when it first arrived, I kept looking at the window in disbelief that it was my car. And the first thing I did when the first paycheck arrived, I drove to the nearest cash machine just to look at my balance. I'd never seen so much money in an account. And it was a huge transformation. I thank my lucky start to this day because that really was my big break. So talk to me about what happened next. It's one thing to get a job. It's another thing to keep a job and to grow in a job and to thrive in a job. You said you were there for seven years. What was that like? What were you doing on a daily basis? Take me back to that time. Well, it was really a journey because I hadn't raised the year previously because I broke my ankle. So I was a little bit out of my dips. It was a sink or swim moment. That's why it was only a one-year contract. But I had great people around me and I showed them that I was willing to work hard. I showed them I wasn't a diva that I wanted to earn my spot there. And in that first year, I just managed to do enough to show them that I deserve to be there. But I was very much trying to balance this kind of tight rope of wanting to be taken seriously in a male dominated space. So I just felt I couldn't be too feminine or how should I dress when I was invited to a big conference to speak from I say these bends. And it was definitely challenging in that I wanted to be taken seriously. But I needed to stay true to who I was and I wasn't just a tomboy. So those years took quite some adjustment of really finding my feet. And in my third year in the series, I got told that I would be driving a pink car because my sponsor wanted to paint it pink. You can imagine blonde racing driver, female and a pink racing car. And I had always shied away from pink because I had my pink sideboards and my go-kai, I had my little pink race suit. And I realized I saw it as a sign of weakness, this femininity, this idea that I was a little girl. But it was that pink car and all these little girls turning up at the racetrack to see this pink car. They'd also brought me to the realization that representation matters. Why is it pink or Barbie that gets seen as something that isn't acceptable in the world of racing? In the end, I was feminine, but I was also fierce. So it started to be this kind of battle of saying, well, I am who I am and I'm not going to shy away from it anymore. If that means I drive a pink car and I have little girls who love that pink car, then I'm going to have a pink car. And obviously now in my role of the F1 Academy, I have much more ability to really break down that narrative and show people that it's not a man's world anymore and it's not that pink doesn't belong in racing, it's not that femininity doesn't have its place in racing. We can have both. I love that. So talk to me about the decision to leave. What was the calculus that you were doing in your head at that time? Well, I just got married and felt very secure, but also very comfortable. That's not when you're growing then. No, it's not when you're growing exactly. And I guess at some point I thought, well, my dream was always for me to want and this is the moment where it just was that instinct that made me again that said there's something else you used to do more. really funny because I remember people saying, well, if you're going to leave what are you going to do? And I said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I just know that it's not this. And that blind belief that I had to go, because I also didn't have the amount of success that I had wanted in the series, I had zero doubt that it was the right thing to go. And when everyone said, well, what are you going to do next? I knew that I had to close that door before the next one would open. And I wasn't at all scared of what would be next because I had such a strong instinct that that part of my life and that journey was over. And then towards the end of that year, I met Sir Frank Williams and he offered me a test in his moment of one, because it was only ever supposed to be 25 laps. But again, when that little sniff of opportunity presents itself, I grabbed it with both hands. But I also looked back now with perspective and think it was brave at the time because I wasn't such a comfortable position. I was doing well financially, but it was that feeling that I had stopped growing and that I had more that I could achieve and do. Sir, talk to me about that next gig. Can you walk our audience through being a development driver? Well, the interesting thing was that when I tested the Williams car, it was only ever supposed to be 20 laps at Silverstone. But I did well at the test and the amount of media interest that it created because there was a young female driver back in a modern day Formula One car. There was a lot of question marks would it be physically fitting up to drive the car? Could I drive the car? And there were also questions that I didn't know, but I was willing to at least try because it was my dream to drive. And it was in November of the year. They were all set for the following season. And the team made up the role of development driver, which is a common role now in Formula One teams because it's basically the driver that does all the development work in the background. So all of the aerodynamical straight line tests, which actually don't happen anymore because they're all done in the simulator, all of the tire tests, all of the testing in the background, which the racing drivers don't have time for is what the development and test driver does. So that was a role they created for me. That's amazing. So in 2014, you became the first woman in 22 years to take part in an F1 race weekend. What was that experience like? It was a really special moment. You know, I remember there was so much anticipation around me doing the FP1 sessions. I wasn't taking part in the race. It was only the first practice session, but even that was still a big thing. And I remember arriving at the track with my husband who at that time was already running Mercedes Formula One team and having a lot of success. And we entered the paddock together. And I stopped outside Williams, which was my team and said, "Well, I'm going to head into my team." And he said, "Well, the next time I see you, you're going to be out on track in an F1 car." And I said, "Yeah." And I was waiting for the words of wisdom, the big kind of good luck. And he just looked at me and said, "Don't be shit." Now he's Austrian. He knows exactly how to rev me up in the right way. And I looked at him and I said, "I'll show you. I will show you that I will not be shit." So by the time I jumped in the car, I was very motivated to just get out there and prove what I could do. So then a year later, you decided to retire. It was a few years later. I was offered another contract to stay on, but I knew I wasn't going to make it into a race seat. By that time, I'd spent probably too long on the sidelines. Again, Hillary, I was comfortable. Oh, no. Oh, I know. Me comfortable. That's dangerous. The worst. But I guess by that time I was in my early 30s and as a sports person, you always know that there's a technical knock. And I wanted to be controlled my own destiny and not wait until I just wasn't offered a contract anymore. And I was also really conscious of wanting to be successful, whatever I chose to do next, not just be known as an ex-racing driver. So the decision was pretty easy to say, "I'm going to hang up my helmet." The reality was a lot tougher because I suddenly had a massive loss of identity and realized that I was no longer waking up with a clear goal every day because for so long, I'd known just so precisely what I wanted to achieve and where I wanted to get to and what I had to do. Whereas in the one hand, I was incredibly lucky to have a white sheet of paper to start again, but in the other hand, it was hugely daunting. Who was? What did I want to be if I wasn't a racing driver? So those were some difficult months and on top of that, I became a mother for the first time. Nothing like a small world shift. But that was kind of the first time I took a real break in my career and enjoyed those months and loved being a mother, but quickly also realized that I had to do something. I had too much fire in me to simply not chase some kind of challenge. But it took a while to find out what that would be. And I also was very conscious that any time spent away from my son and my husband, it had to mean something. It had to be worth it. So it took me a while to find my feet again. Talk to me about finding your feet again. How did you start thinking through your new path and how long did it take to come to the idea of co-founding dare to be different? Well, dare to be different was an initiative that I set up with the governing body of UK Motorsport to very much give something back to the sport. I had only ever done one interview in my whole career where I wasn't asked about being a woman. And I really wanted to show the next generation that regardless of your gender, there are opportunities in the sport. It's not a man's world anymore. Still thinking about all those little girls who are showing up. Yeah. And the little boys. Like it's for both. It's for both. Exactly. So that was an initiative that I felt very strongly about that someone had to do something. But in terms of what I would do next, it was difficult because my husband was still in Formula One. So I was pretty sure I didn't want to work in the sport because I didn't want to work for him for the sake of our marriage. I don't want to work against him for the sake of our marriage. So I was really looking at different things in my own fashion and wellness. But nothing really felt right. And I think a lot of women will be able to resonate with the fact that when you are a wife and a mother, you put your own needs second. And somehow it felt that I had to hang on to who I was. You know, I wasn't ambitious driven person. And that couldn't suddenly just disappear because I was busy looking after everybody else as much as that also brought me joy. And I remember when I was going through those difficult months, you know, I had some people saying, "You have postnatal depression. It's fine." And I was like, "How dare you? I'm going through a tough moment of readjustment of trying to figure out my career and how quick people are to put a label on you and to tell you what these feelings are." And I think I was just lost. And also to assume that it's like birth related. Like, yes, my identity here is shifting. But, oh, yes, my larger independent identity is also changing at the same time, which by the way, that feels so intense. Yeah. And I think for anyone going through that time, don't let other people tell you what you're feeling. You know, and it's a huge adjustment in your life. But that feeling of being lost, that's what I was going through. But I was very sure that it was that feeling and not a kind of fundamental darkness or a black cloud that was over me. But it was challenging all the same. And on the one hand, I was so grateful to be a mother. And I didn't take that for granted. But in the other hand, felt that I couldn't just let go of myself completely and no longer have anything for myself. And then I got a call from a gentleman who had asked me to drive for him some years previously. And he had a formerly E-Team, which was all a electric series. And to cut a long story short, it felt right. It was a series that my husband wasn't participating in. And it felt like a challenge that I could take on. It was a team that was racing at the back because he'd had health problems. So the team was losing a lot of money. It was racing around at the back. But it was a challenge that I felt was right. And don't get me wrong. In those first few months, I had a few moments of thinking, what have I got myself into here? But again, despite the first few months being incredibly tough. And when I see pictures of myself at that time, I just look permanently exhausted. But they were definitely months right. They're an incredible amount more on the business side of the sport. In this role, it was more about team management versus racing the car, correct? I was no longer a race driver. So I was running a team and I'd taken equity in the team. So I own 30% of the team. That's a shift. What did you know about management at that point in time? Obviously, you had been a part of a team, but did you have the team management experience or how did you get upskilled in that? Well, I'd watched my husband be very successful in Formula One. I would grown up watching both my parents have their own businesses. I obviously had that one year international business. But more than anything, it was an industry understood so well. I had lived in that sport since age of eight. I knew all the good people. I knew people I were rated. And I very quickly surrounded myself with great people. And quite often in motorsport, the quickest way to get performance is to approach people from teams that are winning because they bring all their know-how. So I think my first six months were very much building the team out and bringing in energy and that the team believed that we were capable that the drivers were good enough. And I think I was also quite open of being honest that I didn't have all the answers. Ah, I didn't pretend that I knew everything. I was the first in meeting to say, okay, I don't understand that, but I'm going to go away and read it and come back. And then I will understand it. But I think because I had such an understanding of the sport, I could sniff bullshit from a myeloy. So that was helpful. What parts were more challenging or surprisingly difficult? Were you like, oh, wow, I did not foresee that being as hard as it was. Well, I started there to be different. So it was running on its own. But I remember going to my first round table as a team principal. And the first question was, what qualifies you for this job? Oh, fair enough. That could be asked to anyone. The second question was, did your husband get you the job? That was a bit below the belt. He had nothing to do with it. And the third question was, will you just become a mother and how are you going to manage all the logistics and travel related to your job? So the questions were rude sexes, sexes. Exactly. And that was the moment, Hillary, in that situation, that fuels me rather than tempers me. And that's when I thought, okay, I've got a job on my hands here, but I am going to make this work. And I think what came quite easily was the people side of the business. I knew who I wanted on my team. I knew that I had to empower them. And I wasn't scared to bring in the best of the best. And to bring them on the journey, I had to fight to get them because it was a team that wasn't running at the front. But the people side of it and creating that energy and momentum, that's what I'd known throughout my risk. And I knew how important that was. What was challenging, first and foremost, was the legal side. We had a mountain of bad contracts. We had to get out of it. So I got the best counsel I could find who turned out to be a woman, actually. And we just methodically had to work out, okay, what can we get out of? How can we navigate ourselves into a better position, both technically, but also financially and commercially? And that took a bit longer. But those were key learnings, which I'm happy I learned on the job when that I went through. And then when the success came, we won our first Grand Prix in Hong Kong six months later. Suddenly, the commercial interest picked up. We got our first sponsor. And then it was just incredible how the momentum built. Then suddenly the following season, we won six races. The following season, we really won the title. We were title favorites. And this energy in the team and the self belief and this confidence just really built. And it was a wonderful journey of learning. But it was also nice to be on the team side as opposed to the person in the car. Right. I mean, that is like incredible momentum. That must have been very rewarding and feel phenomenal to see that build over the four seasons, right? It was. We lost out in the world championship in our last year. And I was ready to go for it the following year and when. But my business partner decided he wanted to exit. There was a lot of interest in the championship at that point. But it was definitely such a good learning. Also that the team wasn't good at the beginning. That's where you learn when the moments are the hardest, when the performance isn't there. And that turnaround was definitely tougher times. I don't want anyone to think it was all rosy. There were sleepless nights where I didn't know how we were going to make it work. But there were also really rewarding moments where we were the underdogs and suddenly we started winning and people just looked, it doesn't treat it as in a different way. That is extremely rewarding. Or at least it sounds like it was and very exciting. Talk to me about leaving the team and what you did next. Well, my business partner tasked me with sailing the team and because I'd put my heart into that team and had a lot of loyalty to the team that we built. I wanted to go into a safe pair of hands. So we found a very passionate American investor who took over the running of the team and I had kind of made it clear that I wouldn't be staying on because it was really in his hands and he was very hands on anyway and had his own vision for where the team should be. So it was all very natural and it felt like the right thing to do. And I was moving on with my business partner. He wanted to go into the space industry which for me felt like the right thing to do something outside of motorsport and new technology. It interested me. It was something very different. And then of course I got the call from Stephanie Dominic Ali regarding this idea of an all female series run by F1 called F1 Academy. And that was the curve ball that really sent my path onto a different trajectory. And I was so far along in my space project that I didn't really feel that I could make that you turn. But there was my husband that kind of said, well listen, you're passionate about showing that this sport has a place for women of creating opportunity for women. You are a driver, you've gone through it, you've run a team, you know the industry. Who better? If you don't do it, who will? Yeah. And that's what led me to the role now. And again, it was also one of those roles at the beginning that was a bit like a one of I got myself into here. Yep. That's how you know it's good. And that's how you know it's good. But four years in and it's a great team of people at F1 Academy, we have to give a lot of credit to F1 because they put the investment in. It's not just a box taking exercise. It really is something that's having a positive impact on the sport. And all 10 Formula 1 teams have a female driver, have their delivery in F1 Academy. We have 18 young drivers supporting F1 on seven grown pre weekends. You know, I always think I was lucky to get some amazing opportunities in my career. And I feel very proud to be a part of helping the next generation get their own opportunities. So for anyone who doesn't know or hasn't seen the Netflix series, can you talk a little bit about how drivers are selected? We basically want to have the best 18 young female drivers in the world, which means we are looking at every corner of the globe. And the differentiating factor with F1 Academy is because the sport has quite a high financial barrier to entry. We fund over 80% of the driver's budget. So actually, we're just creating the opportunity for them and the platform to show what they can do and hope that the best and most talented move onwards and upwards in the ladder. So we have a rookie tryout. The F1 teams pick their drivers. We have our partners, cars who always look for the most talented. We have many different nationalities. And we have some great racing out-and-track. Are there any certain traits or tells or skills that you recognize immediately as being the sign of someone that has the raw goods that we can turn them into something? Or do they still surprise you? I try not to be judgmental because I think between the ages of 16 and 19 people can develop at different rates. So I'm always very conscious of giving the opportunity and seeing how the young person develops and grows and progresses. Because for me, sometimes the rate of development is more important than the raw speed at the beginning. Interesting. Because if someone has the tenacity to get through and to keep pushing, they are sometimes going to be more successful than the one that just has the raw speed at the beginning but doesn't have the tenacity to follow through. So we take in all the different elements. We do introduce with the drivers. We try to understand what their character traits are so that we can help them become the best racing drivers. They can go on to be successful in this board. So psychological insights and then customizing training based on that? Yeah, and we're lucky that we have the five best junior teams running the cars in F1 Academy. So they've worked with some of the best Formula One drivers there are. They know what it takes to build a good racing driver. So they are very tuned into creating an environment where these young drivers can excel. I mean, we can never take the pressure away. The performance pressure will always be there, but we just try to give them the best chance to success. And hopefully fewer sexist questions. Yeah, definitely working hard on that one. Yeah. So one of the things that I love about what you're doing is the way that you're championing partnerships with brands like Hello Kitty and Charlotte Tilbury. And again, continuing to make that statement, that femininity has a place in racing. Talk to me a little bit about some of the other ways that you're breaking down that barrier or other areas where you're interested in changing things or other successes that you might have had. Well, I think on track, we're very aware that the next generation needs to see a place for themselves in the sport. And what we touched on at the beginning, you know, a little 9, 10, 11, or 12 year old, she can't drive herself to a car track. So we need the parents to also understand that it's not carts for a little boy and horse riding for a little girl. There are opportunities for those little girls that would have a passion for the sport. So it's about building up that talent pipeline, changing the perceptions and making sure that we have just have a wider talent pool of drivers. Pipeline is everything. And the more we get racing, the more chance we have a finding the most talented. And it's in our role to get our champions who are the best of the best and try and help them also succeed onwards and upwards. You know, you touched upon those brand partnerships that we have. They are such important pillars in as challenging perceptions because they allow us to reach new audiences. They allow us to show that racing and girls in racing is cool. It has its place. So we've achieved a lot in a short space of time, but still very ambitious for what we can do long term. Do you have any dream partners that you haven't closed yet? There's one partnership that we're working on now that I would love to go over the line, but we just closed Sephora. We obviously have Gatorade. We have American Express. Very grateful because those partners came on board when we weren't an established series, but they saw the potential. They saw the impact we could have in the sport and they realized that they could help build something. And by them coming to the table and saying we support you, it just allowed us to get so much more traction more quickly. So for the brand out there, don't think that your impact when you choose to back, women's sport, it plays a huge role. And I think that's positive for any women's sport, regardless of what it is because there's so much growth potential. There's so much positive impact we can have in the next generation who see themselves in sports where they maybe didn't before, but that takes investment and that takes brands that are willing to stand up for what they believe in. And sometimes that's not always the most obvious on paper, but when they give their name and their power to something, it can be transformational. I mean, from a brand point of view, I would think that it would be a very smart decision because it can have so much of a bigger impact long term, which again, if the goal is making smart business decisions, this is where I'd put my money. Thank you, Helene. We're also a lot cheaper than Formula One. So you know why do you get more bang for your buck? Exactly. And that is literally the definition of a good business decision. So when you look back at But all of the things that you've done, what is the most rewarding part of getting to move this industry forward? And what is the most rewarding part about working with these young drivers? The most rewarding part is seeing the impact you have on young women and that goes not just from the drivers that we have in our cars, but the little girls that I see coming to race tracks who have a different perception of the sport. Through our legal partnership, they build a little life on Academy car for little girls to build and the little driver has long hair and the amount of positive messages that get over social media from parents who say, "My little girl, now watch this for me, the one," because she understands that it's a sport not just for her brother or her dad, but it's a sport that she can see herself represented in. So those little moments that my team and I see on a daily basis are really what keeps us going in the knowledge that we are having positive impact. And in the same respect, there's just so much more we have to do. We have to keep going. We have to keep creating that awareness. We have to keep growing the series that it sits on a very strong foundation that becomes financially sustainable in the mid to long term. So lots achieved, but still lots to do. So you have a memoir that's coming out on April 28th called Driven. Talk to me about why you wanted to write this book at this moment in your career. And by the way, it's fantastic. Oh, thank you, Hillary. It was so funny because I had this idea that I wanted to have a children's book which had a little girl driver that could challenge the perceptions for little girls that they couldn't see themselves represented. And when I met with some of the big publishing houses, they all said, we can do that, but the first thing you have to do, you need to write down your story. Ah. And at the time, I said, I have no capacity to write a book. But I went back to Scotland to do some Netflix filming of all things for our show. And I met my brother for a coffee and he was always creative one of the family. He's a film director. And we were catching up and I sort of have really loved to this book, but they said, I need to write a book first. And he said, that's so interesting. Because if you would write a book, you could do it like this and you could structure it like this. And I remember those moments and I sat there and I suddenly thought, I am going to write this book and I'm going to write it with you. So we got the deal done and that Christmas holiday we started. And I think we both, after one week thought, oh my goodness, we have so much work ahead of us because we're both perfectionists. So nine drafts later by May and many, many hours together and on Zoom, we had to finish product and it was definitely therapeutic writing it because it reminded me a lot of my journey. It gave me perspective. It reminded me how tough it is for those young drivers coming through. I wanted them and the next generation to learn from my mistakes, to learn from the tenacity it had, the tough moments it had in my career. And in a way it ends on the Formula One Academy story and I think it was just the right timing to have my story told. I didn't want it to just be a motorsport book. So it really is interesting because it's my life journey as opposed to just my journey as a racing driver. It's very well done. I feel like you executed on that beautifully. No surprise. Thank you. So for this podcast, we always ask everyone the same three closing questions and the first one is about mistakes. And I think it's really important to talk about mistakes because we live in an Instagram perfect world where people share their successes but they don't always talk about the challenges and the mistakes. And I think it's so important for women to hear about that because for women to hear, I totally screwed this up and I was able to not only overcome that but then move forward and everything was fine. It helps to show people that you can be resilient and come out the other side of it. So with all of that, can you tell me about a mistake that you've made at any point in your career and what you've learned from it? Well, if people want to understand the amount of mistakes I've made, you just need to read my memoir because there isn't one that I can pinpoint as the mistake. There's been lots and there's been lots of failures way more failures than wins. But this is going to sound corny. I don't regret any of the mistakes. I don't regret any of the tough moments and the challenges because it's made me who I am today. And as much as I'm really honest about people that say, "Oh, you know, embrace the failures and make failure your friend." Failure was never my friend. You know, there's nothing worse than that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you've made a mistake or you failed. But that passage over time, I mean, it's what you learn from it and how you choose to pick yourself back up and come back. That's what's going to define you on the long term. So I mean, to pinpoint one mistake, there's way too many, but I don't get caught up in those mistakes. They are what they are. Shake yourself down and move on. So a lot of the folks who listen to this podcast are in their first lives and they know that they want to make a change in their careers, whether that's staying in the same industry, but tackling a different part of it or changing industries entirely, but they're scared. As someone who has made pivots in your own career, what advice would you give someone who's standing there thinking about trying a different aspect of their career, but just hasn't made the leap quite yet? Well, firstly, it's normal to be scared. I don't think that I was like superwoman unscared and just pivoted. Being scared is normal, but be bold. Believe in yourself and remember, what's the worst downside? You know, a mistake is just a mistake. You can turn around and change track if you've made the wrong choice, but you don't want to live your life thinking what if? What if I had said in that economic lecture hall and never chased my dream of being a racing driver, how different my life would have looked? How many regrets I would have maybe had? So be bold. Take the decision, go for it. And as long as you can live with the worst case scenario, life is a journey. It's full of adventures. It's not like one decision will be the decision of your life, but be bold. And the most important thing for me is just be your own biggest supporter. Be your own biggest champion because if you don't believe in yourself, it's difficult to make others believe in you. I also love what you said earlier about like just understanding that comfort and growth don't always go together and that's okay. Completely and you know, it's getting comfortable and uncomfortable. When you get used to it, you know that you can tackle it. Okay, it's uncomfortable, but it's okay being uncomfortable. Be comfortable, being uncomfortable. Yeah. Okay, so my last question is my favorite question, which is, if you could get into a time machine and go back in time and speak with your younger self and give your younger self some advice, what would you say? That's such a fitting question to end on because you know, when my brother and I had finished the book finally, we were talking and he spoke about that, you know, what would you want, you know, a young girl to take from this book now looking back on your journey. And I ended up writing a letter to my younger self at the end of the book because I felt so strongly that little girl who was so fierce and so brave and had so much belief in herself from such a young age, I don't want to lose that little girl. And sometimes life and other people's opinions and expectations can drag you away and set you off into doubt and different paths. But I have so much respect for that brave, fierce little girl and I always try and think back now, well, what would little Suzy have done? Because little Suzy was fearless and she chased those dreams and she didn't care what anyone thought. And I remind myself of that little girl because what did we use to dream of when we were little? We were sometimes so ambitious with our dreams and why do we sometimes lose that later in life? So I often think back to that fierce little girl and I think to myself, not what can I teach her, it's what she still has to teach me. Go out there, be bold, have the big dreams and be fierce. I love that. Well, Suzy, thank you so much. The book is phenomenal. I have enjoyed every moment of this conversation so thank you so much for joining me today. This was an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you, Hillary. That was F1 Academy's Managing Director, Suzy Vol. For more inspiring interviews with women like Suzy, head on over to SecondLivePod.com where we have so many more for you to peruse. If you like today's show, please subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review us. We love seeing you spread the word on social and now you can tag us in your posts. We are @SecondLivePod on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. We always want to know who you're interested in hearing from on the show. Send in your requests to [email protected] or you can DM us on Instagram. I'm @HillaryKirr. The show is @SecondLivePod. Our DMs are always open. I'm Hillary Kirr and you've been listening to SecondLive. This episode was produced by Hillary Kirr, Summer Hammeres and Natalie Thurman. Our production assistant is Grace Ingram. Our audio engineers are at Treehouse Recording in Los Angeles, California and our music is by Jonathan Leahy. Thanks again to NutriFull for sponsoring today's episode. If you've ever dealt with hair thinning, you know it's not just about hair. It's the constant mental math having to think about how you're styling it, what lighting you're standing in, whether you want to be in photos, whether people notice. No one wants to spend energy managing their hair instead of living in the moment. Hair growth, neutrosuticals are different because they are designed to help you address hair thinning of the root, supporting hair growth from within with a consistent routine backed by clinical testing. Showing up as your best self is so important and feeling confident in your hair means one less thing to worry about. 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