Susan Collins, political ninja

Today, explain producer Denise Gera wanted to make a show about Susan Collins. But today, explain her son, Rama Swarm was like. Boorig. But then Denise said. She's like a ninja. Susan Collins is not Denise's beat, though, so we asked Alex Cites walled from Maine's mid-coast villager. He's writing about her race, which couldn't decide the balance of the United States Senate. Ninja would not be the first thing that comes to mind when I think about Susan Collins, but actually pretty good comparison, she's quiet. She is flexible, she's quick, she can do things that seem impossible, she's lasted a lot longer than any Republican in New England or a blue state, like her. Susan Collins is a ninja. On the 2000th episode of today, explain from Vox. I'm Anna Garten, and each week on Happy Hour, I invite new and old friends for a drink and a fun conversation and my kitchen table in New York City. On this week's episode, I'm joined by Julia Louis-Dreyfus. 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The first thing you need to know about Susan Collins is that she isn't supposed to be here right now. Yeah, when she first ran in 1996, she pledged to only serve two terms in the center, if elected. Regardless of whether term limits constitutional amendment passes or not, 12 years is long enough to be in public service, make a contribution, and then come home and let someone else take your place. Main is a state that likes term limits. There are term limits in the state legislature. We like these kind of election reforms, good government reforms. We have public financing of campaigns, we have ranked choice voting, and part of Susan Collins' initial appeal was that she promised to only serve a limited amount of time. And then return to Maine. That's obviously not what's happened, but she defends that decision stridently. And she says, I wonder estimated how much seniority experience and knowledge matters in the Senate. So I need to be reelected. You need to send me back so that I can leverage the seniority that I have accrued to do what Maine needs. It's such a classic, but I've heard of that since Joe Biden. I've been doing this a long time, and I honestly, God, have never more optimistic about America's future if we stick together. Watching her, it does feel a bit like watching a politician or a debate from another era that's not quite bygone because she's still there, and she might win again. But she is a legislator, an appropriator, and she views that job very seriously. She takes it very seriously. And it's worked for her so far. And I do think there are a lot of people in Maine who still respect that and still want that, but it's a dwindling number. And every time she's up for re-election, the question is, has that number now dropped below the threshold that she needs to win? Okay, well, let's talk about what she's delivered for Maynors in her almost 30 years in office. Even though back in the 90s, she said she'd only run for two terms, which is 12. As she approaches maybe another six, what is she accomplished and what has kept her in office? Well, it might surprise a lot of people to hear, but one of the few things that Republicans and Democrats in Maine will agree on is that Susan Collins has delivered a lot for the state. You can go on her website and see a map of projects that she's helped fund as Chair of the Appropriations Committee, which is where the money actually gets spent down to the line item of individual projects. And this map is just covered in red dots. You can look around at all the towns around me, and there's a culvert here, a library there, a museum here, a historical society. And I talk to these people, and these are small, struggling institutions that are funded through a combination of donations and taxpayer dollars and property taxes are going up. No one wants to spend money on these things. And then it's like mana from heaven when a federal grant that Susan Collins helps secure just falls out of the sky and all of a sudden the roof of the historical society is fixed. Or the Fire Department gets that new fire truck that was going to be a quarter of the entire town's annual budget. Or we have a little transportation museum at the airport in Alashead, and she got this whole STEM education center that would never have been funded. So people really do feel tangible impacts of what she's done, project she's funded, and they remember that. She's been around so long she's accrued a lot of goodwill and personal relationships through this work. I was talking to somebody who was saying that their mother is a liberal, a feminist, is horrified by the DOBS decision, but is still going to vote for Susan Collins because she's the vice chair of the local library and Collins saved the library, and so she feels obligated to vote for her. That's amazing. I'm mad about DOBS and the overturning of Roby Wade, but she did hook up the libraries. Exactly. I mean, it's old school, retail, transactional, you know, even patronage, politics, but it's tangible and it's a thing that is felt in people's lives in a big way. And I think that's kind of what this whole election is coming down to. If the median main voter is going to the polls thinking who is best for Maine, I think Susan Collins wins. You mentioned DOBS, and I think a lot of people associate Susan Collins somehow with this decision that, you know, she certainly didn't author. And this isn't the only vote in recent memory where Susan Collins has certainly alienated Democrats, but even perhaps some moderates in Maine who would typically vote for her, right? Absolutely. I mean, she's alienated, especially Democrats, but moderates on a ton of things. The one big, beautiful bill has been, which I always feel ridiculous saying that name, but that is actually what it's called. That was a huge one because Susan Collins has also positioned herself as a champion of Medicaid, you know, rare in their Republican party and expanding Medicaid. She fought with the former Republican governor of Maine who didn't want to expand Medicaid, but she voted to help advance the one big, beautiful bill, which cut Medicaid. And she says that she did vote for it in a procedural motion, even though she voted against it ultimately, but she did the earlier in favor vote so that she could insert a provision to get some money for rural health care, which is another great example of how she kind of tries to triangulate this stuff. She'll take one vote for it, one vote against it, and she can point to whichever vote is most expedient to the audience that she's talking to. That's maybe the cynical view of looking at the more higher-minded view is she says, well, you want me in these rooms talking to Donald Trump, talking to Republicans because I can insert this extra amendment to get more money for rural health care. They never would have let a Democrat in that room in the first place. So, you know, maybe I didn't like this overall bill, but because I was there, because I was a Republican, because I was willing to play ball with them, I was able to add this little thing to make something that she would agree was bad, slightly less bad. It's funny, you know, when we talk about these big votes, like the big beautiful bill or or Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court or whatever it might be, where Susan Collins alienates Democrats and and progressives and certainly some mayners who wish you were someone else. Are they just missing the fact that Susan Collins is a Republican? No. These Democratic mayners, Liberal mayners who have been voting for Susan Collins, they know very well that she's a Republican. They're not missing that. They like the idea of voting for a Republican who's the right kind of Republican. She's the end of an era. Like, when she leaves, if she leaves, that's kind of it for this brand of politics that used to be huge and influential, not just in New England. across the country. I mean, these were politicians who were majority leaders in the Senate. They ran for president. These were major voices on the national stage. These kind of moderate statesmen, competent, institutionalist, Yankee Republicans. The main Republican Party today looks nothing like Susan Collins. The up-and-coming Republican leaders look much more like Donald Trump or any other national Republican figure de jour than they do like Susan Collins. And whether you love her, hate her or feel indifferent, it's a major historic kind of watershed end of an era whenever she does finally leave. Donald Trump, the third candidate in this main Senate race when today explained returns. Support for the show comes from found running a business is a lot like being a duck. Wow, I didn't know that. You have to move along the surface smoothly, almost effortlessly, to the outside observer, but under the water you're working hard paddling away, dealing with headache after headache. That's especially true when it comes to managing your finances. Luckily, they're found. Also, someone's trying to eat you all the time. Maybe not so. I added that bit. Found provides business banking with built-in software to handle your bookkeeping, invoicing contractor payments and more. That means no switching between multiple systems for banking and nobody wants to do that. Or bookkeeping or invoices in contractor payments. 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You can sign up now for chime. It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and chime card provided by Chime's bank partners, qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to chime.com/disclosures for details. This is more from today's plain comes from Vanta. Vanta says his AI adoption grows so do your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits and vendors keep piling on but your team probably isn't getting any bigger while most compliance tools promise automation you might actually end up stuck doing all the work by hand, chasing screenshots, validating controls, playing catch up when audit season comes around. Vanta works differently, their agentec trust platform is built to scale with you, rather than slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests, across more than 400 integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year round, you can cut your audit prepped by 82% I'm told, plus you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools like Claude or cursor. You can join the more than 16,000 fast growing companies like Ramp, Writer and Harvey who save time and resources while scaling fast with Vanta. Learn more at vanta.com/explains spelled V-A-N-T-A.com/explained. I was successful in getting concrete, pulp and road salt removed from today explained. My name is Dan Marica, I'm a reporter with The Washington Post and I am the anchor of our flagship political newsletter, The Early Brief. Great. And where are you right now? I'm currently in the parking lot of an M&T bank in Bitiford, Maine, I've been talking to voters for most of the day and I am covering a Troy Jackson event later in the day and speaking with him. Tell me how this race got to be so fascinating because I don't think Maine is typically like the hub of our most exciting politics in the United States. Given this cycle was going to be interesting no matter what Susan Collins is, I believe the only Republican senator who was running for reelection in a state that Kamala Harris won in 2024 this cycle. So no matter what, this was going to be a fascinating race. But since the outset, it has really defined, I think, these midterm elections. The rise of Graham Platner, the Oysterman turned politician really hinted at the kind of the populist anti-establishment fervor that was in the Democratic base. We have watched this state become essentially unlivable for working class people. That fervor was so strong that it prevented the sitting incumbent Democratic governor from winning the primary here in Maine to challenge Susan Collins. I think that said a lot about the Democratic Party. Obviously Graham Platner's campaign then flamed out and he ended his campaign because of the allegations of sexual assault against him. We are suspending campaign operations. This is incredibly difficult because I know that some will think it's an admission of guilt and it most certainly has not. But then you have the Collins angle of it and she is really kind of the, I would say the poster candidate for a Republican who in this election where Donald Trump's approval rating is so low, she's having to basically suspend political gravity above him in a state that really does not approve of the job that he's done as president. And we've been talking a bit about her relationship with the president and I want to ask him more about it. But before we do, I just want to ground this conversation a bit in how voters in Maine feel about him right now because I know you've been talking to voters a bunch including literally today. And what is the vibe out there are, are people mad moderating their feelings? What? There's a lot of anger for the president here. Maine is in a unique position where it's been on the receiving end of a lot of what those people who are mad at Trump would say, you know, harm that he has caused this state. It's a border state. It borders Canada. There's a ton of cross border relationships. And so his attacks on Canada, his suggestion that it's going to be the 51st state. They'll end up being the 51st state because it's the only way it works. It has really hurt the state of Maine because it's hurt tourism in the state. Many Canadians come down south from there, from their perch to vacation in Maine. And there's been a drop in tourism because of those Canadian fight with Canada. The tariffs have hurt Maine because so much of the wood and the lumber that is grown and cut here in Maine is actually shipped up north to Canada to be processed. And then what it is processed as is shipped back across the United States. So the tariffs have been incredibly harmful for the state. And then you have ice. I'm in Bidaford. There was a shooting of an individual here in Bidaford. Protesters in Maine are demanding answers after local officials say an immigration agent shot and killed a man in his car. I don't know what he did, but he didn't deserve to be executed in the street. That has been an issue in this race as well. So there's a lot of anger at the president. And it's very easy to feel that when you're talking to voters. I actually just spoke with a voter who voted for Troy Jackson dropped his ballot in an early voting box. And I just asked him what did you vote for? Who did you vote for? Why did you vote? And he got visibly emotional when he started talking about the Trump administration and how scared he was for the future of democracy and that that was why he was voting for Troy Jackson. I've also talked to voters who supported Susan Collins just six years ago in the middle of the end of the first Trump administration. They voted for her back then and they feel like the last six years have made it impossible for them to vote for her again. And then on the other side, you have people who are hardcore diehard Trump supporters. And they actually think that Susan Collins has been too hard on the president. So she's in a really tough spot politically where on her left, there are a lot of voters, and some who voted for her recently are furious, frankly. her who don't think she stands up to the president enough. And then on her right, there are voters who think she does too much, that she stands up to the president too much. And I think that really encapsulates the difficult position she's in politically. It's funny to think about these two figures representing the same political party, because Wally might agree on a few issues here and there. They couldn't represent more different brands of republicanism, I figure, from maybe a bygone time, and of course, our present day. What is the truth of how much Susan Collins sides with Donald Trump? So she has sided with the president at times. She has voted against the president at times. I was struck in the debate on Thursday. I think she said, I have worked with five presidents. I've only supported the campaign of one of those five George Bush. I was just in Kenna Bunk, which is right next to Kenna Bunk Port, which is a historical location for the Bush family. They have a large home at Walker Point. There is some relationship between the Bush family obviously and Maine that makes sense that Susan Collins really does kind of line up more with the Bush style republican party than she does the Trump style republican party. What's her actual relationship with the president like? And surely he's well aware that she was one of the few republicans who voted to impeach him over the January 6th insurrection. Does that get in the way of their relationship? I mean, I think he's very well aware when somebody breaks with him. I would have to imagine he's aware of that. I was actually told by a republican early in the campaign that when they were looking out at the map that President Trump demands loyalty from people that he supports from republicans. But this person actually said that there are rules for republicans and that there are rules for Susan Collins and that republicans were willing to kind of give her some leeway, which is actually an acknowledgement that they know the bind that she is and they know that she's running for a re-election in a blue state and a state that the president lost and a state that is very hostile right now to the president. It was a fascinating comment that there are maybe rules for republicans who are running across the country that maybe Susan Collins doesn't exactly have to adhere to those rules. Affordability is a huge issue in Maine, right? And Donald Trump hasn't exactly helped. Yeah, and she has that I think has really heightened the competitiveness of this race. The Civil Rights is always going to be competitive, but the fact that gas prices are where that where it's at, the fact that we're going into winter, you know, it's starting to get cold up here. You can't see it outside the car, but it's pretty gloomy. It's going to start getting really cold in Maine. Home heating oil prices are above $6 a gallon to huge issue. I think about 80% of homes that are heated by home heating oil are in the northeast. A large portion of them probably in Maine in New Hampshire, two states with Senate races in November. It's been a huge issue up here. With temperatures dropping in the Iran War sending oil prices through the roof, one state that's home to a critical Senate race is sounding the alarm. Pain at the pump and pain at home too. It's getting to be heard from a lot of people. The Trump administration has actually tried to get rid of a low income program to help with home heating oil that helps a lot of folks in Maine. You've seen Republicans from the Gubernatorial candidate to congressional candidates break with the president on that because they know it's a huge issue. So when you talk about affordability, yes, we're talking about, you know, the price of beef, the price of groceries, the price of gas, but there's also these localized issues in a state like Maine in particular. And I think home heating oil actually could be a really fascinating underappreciated issue in this race, especially when you think about, you know, if you grew up or live in Arizona or Nevada or California, like you're not thinking about the oil that you need to heat your home, that could be a real issue here in a state like Maine. I guess another question I have for you in closing is just, you know, this was a political survivor if if nothing else. And this is no. As you say, and as our prior guest said, Alex, like this is someone who repeatedly for decades delivered for Maynors and for sure seems like she was pretty conservative, not just in her, you know, voting record, but in her style and her demeanor in Washington and back home in Maine, for all of it to come crashing down because of essentially who the president was as she reached her, you know, whatever 30 something year in Congress. Is that a bit of a sad ending to this political story for her? Do you think she'd maybe have regrets about how she approached Donald Trump? Yeah, I mean, it's certainly possible. And you've seen other senators who have bucked the president and drawn his eye or have then retired and not run for reelection. I'm thinking of, you know, Tom Tillis, for example, it in North Carolina. I think there is this fascinating case study in how the party has changed, how the Republican party has changed when you look at Susan Collins and you look at Donald Trump. Someone like Susan Collins in a earlier iteration of the Republican party would have had a lot of success, I think, would have probably stayed on side the Republican party in a way that she just hasn't done under Trump. She represents a definitely a different kind of era of the Republican party. And also, I think there was a time when bringing home the bacon to a small state really worked politically. I'm thinking about Harry Reid, for example, he represented in Nevada. In 2010, he faced a really difficult reelection campaign and his entire campaign was, you know, bringing home the bacon to Nevada, a similarly small state. And he won reelection in 2010. I think if Susan Collins wins reelection in 2026, I think it'll prove that there's still a lot of goodwill for politicians who can deliver purely money, you know, funding projects for states like Maine, states like Nevada, smaller states that maybe don't get the kind of national attention that others do. If she does lose, I think a lot of it will be put at the feet of President Trump. I'll be fascinated to talk to her if she does lose, because I do think she will have a lot to say that she probably hasn't said yet. But I think that's an if, and I think we have two more weeks to find that out. Dan America, Washington Post, earlier, it was Alex Citeswald from the mid-coast villager in Maine, shout-outs to the weeklies, shout-outs to Abisheye Artsy and Dustin DeSoto for making the show, shout-outs to Denise Guerra for the idea, shout-outs, Amin al-Assadhi for the edits, Gabriel Dunnetop for the fact checks, and Bridger Dunnigan and David Tadashore for the mix. I'm Sean Rommis for Amin, shout-outs to you for listening to this episode of Today Explained All 2,000 or anything in-between. you