‘Survivor 50’ Finale Preview: Winner Predictions With JC! | The Pod Has Spoken

[MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Welcome back to the podcast, Spoken, our finale preview episode with the one and only, JC himself, Jason Concepcion. I think-- Did I do OK? Yeah, you did great. I looked in the Philippines for a while. I'm assuming that the last name is a Filipino. It is Filipino. Yeah. Spanish, by the way, of the Philippines, by the way. My last name is Apostle, which is Spanish for APOSTOL. But it's also a very common last name in the Philippines. And they always were perplexed by my last name, which used to be Apostolopolis, cut down when my great, great, grandfather came to the US. There's a Greek? It's Greek. Yeah, Apostolopolis was Greek. They chopped it down to Apostle, which then became a Filipino last name. And when I went to the Philippines as a Mormon missionary, no one could understand me. I didn't make sense to them. Yeah. So-- Apostolopolis, city of the Apostles? I don't know. I don't know what happened. Does that what that means? Are do you speak Greek? I believe that is what that means, but I believe that for the Greek speakers, yeah. Well, let us know in the chat, because I think a lot of our audience actually-- It's Greek. It's Greek. But now we're pulling. We've got the Filipinos, Greeks, everyone's here. Jason, what have you thought of season 50? We got this cast announcement over a year ago. And now we're seeing it all come into play. Pleasantly surprised, disappointed. Give us all of your feelings. I would say overall, net positive. I'm overall feeling quite positive about this season. I think when the cast was announced, and when the kind of roll out of all the different people that were going to be involved, and it seemed like it was going to be very twist heavy, I was definitely more negative about it. But I think though I have quibbles and some of them serious, I think overall it's been an entertaining season. And that some of those quibbles I could probably also chalk up to, even just old now. And maybe people like all the twists. And maybe people really like the cameos. I don't know. I need to see the data on that. I don't particularly love it. I'd love a more pure game and let the players play. But I think overall, the mix of players, the overall strategy and entertainment value has been pretty great. Yeah, I don't disagree. I think even when we were looking at the cast and we're poo-pooing on it, because it wasn't a true celebration of the era, like we were originally led to believe. But I always put the little asterisk on it that with a few wackadoos, the season is going to be entertaining. The masses are going to be entertained. Whether or not it's exactly what we were promised that could be different, and I mean, who knows what powers have need something from-- we see this boomerang idol, Billie Eilish boomerang idol. She doesn't seem to care about it. Then she has a movie coming out on Paramount with Paramount. So now I'm assuming, oh, maybe this wasn't necessarily a production call. This was a we're the parent company network, and we need to get some stuff. A marketing call. I think you're right about that. So did Billie Eilish need like her movie-- just her name, not even her movie, for-- I'm not watching it because the boomerang idol. I'm not watching it just because-- Why do you know I get a little bit helps? They're using James Cameron to market the movie. The fact that he directed it. So they're squeezing every drop of juice out of that. So who's to blame for what? Who knows? That's the thing. What are some of your major quibbles that you still hold on to? I mean, I think that-- Well, let me start here, because we have seen what is perhaps the last appearance of the iconic the legendary Surrey fields. Although I thought that last time, and certainly the way that she was talked off, it seemed like that was the last time as well. I guess my quibble would be that, particular to her, we never got to see her in a non-all-star game type context where, you know, it's like, listen, Boston Rob Legend. His win kind of feels like it was 10 target dummies in Boston Rob. You know? [LAUGHTER] And no disrespect to him. A win is a win. But like-- You know, like last five or six tribbles was like, people refusing to make deals across numbers that were heavily stacked against them for reasons that are just like confusing. Like, I guess you don't want to play. And Surrey never had that kind of lane open. It was always people who came in knowing, watch out for Surrey, and got to get her out at some point, because she's too good. And, you know, when Rick said to her in this episode, like, you're too good, nobody can win, setting next to you. That's the truth. That's the truth. And so I guess my one quibble would be never getting to see her in that type of context where it was like-- Trader season one. Trader season one, an incredible win. There you go, you know? And it really that kind of format highlighted her masterful abilities, maybe the best ever that we've seen in our ability to connect with people, manipulate them without them feeling manipulated. And so I guess that would be my one quibble is. Man, I wish we saw Surrey in a-- - Surrey versus-- - Surrey in commercial season. - Surrey versus 19 Super Megasurrey fans. - Right, something like that. Or like, you know, Surrey and two others, and then new commerce, which is captain. And you know, it's something that we've seen in the past. Yeah, that we never got to see. So I wish that's a part of the quibble. - Surrey, Stephanie, and 18 target dummies. - Surrey, Stephanie, and Surrey, Stephanie, and 18 Surrey fans, just in the air. Just Stephanie getting got by Surrey, like, almost over, I need two hands to count how many times now Surrey's got the best to Stephanie in a reality TV show. So it's, I think it's a story. I think if the Stephanie's best move forward in her career would be to just latch onto that and be like, "If Surrey gets to call me too, I'll show up." - Yeah, I'll show up, and I'll follow on the sword. So that Surrey can, you know, get me again. All right, well, let's go through this player by player. We have five players left in the game. And no particular order. Let's start with Rizzo. Can Rizzo win? What does he need to do to win? And outline that for us. - I think it's an uphill battle, as Aubrey said, who's gonna wanna give this kid $2 million? That said, I do believe that there is a Atticus Finch style monologue path to a victory for Rizzo. - It's called a Mockingbird Gabb. - Yes. - Damn, dude. - He's got the gift of Gabb. What is he so very entertaining with it? His, and he's got like a gambler's nerve. This is the second time in a row now that he's just squeezing the life out of that idol when others would have played it. And so I think he has a lot of good arguments. And if you push away the fact that he's a kid, if he had the same game and he was 29, 30, 35, I think you look at him as a front runner to win. So I think he can make an argument that, hey, put that aside, look at what I've done, point to his resume, look at my alliances, and the way I cut bait with three at the right time, played various factions against each other, was trustworthy, but let out information when necessary. And I think he can make that case. Does it sway people? I look at that jury and I think, again, I think that he has a hill to climb, but I think it's possible. And I think there's enough animosity there, maybe with some of the other people who are currently in it, that if he gets the right mix, maybe it's less of a hill climb. - Well, let's go through it. Like come up with the ideal run in the finale for Rizzo to win it all. - So you need to make fire and win if that's an option. - I think he needs to make fire and win. I think it's good. to be, I think it's got to be like Tiffany and Joe or for Joe and Jonathan, maybe Joe and Jonathan. I think Aubrey is a no. It's a hard problem and probably a hard no with her resume as a player overall and the way she's played this season. What else does he need to do? Does he does he have to make fire? Is that like, can he get to the end with Joe and Jonathan and not make fire? I think it wouldn't hurt. I think to show that like, Hey, I'll do it. I can do it. I'm not afraid. That's almost more important is not necessarily making it or not making it, but showing you're not afraid to make it. I think Brazil making it is very important because historically, he is not good at those things and so to step in and be like, I did that. You literally lost in fires. First people know that and he can tell people that and that counts for something, but I think people can see he's not good at challenges. He's not good around camp. Like for him to step in and take that risk and then also win is he gets bonus points for that in my opinion if I'm on the jury. Yeah. I think that Rizzo has held on to this idol for too long because now he's up against, it's the last tribal council that he can play it. So of course, no one's going to vote for him. And if he gets up there and he does play it, it's like, he uses the idol with such a whimper. Like it goes out on such a, just like, no vote, whatever, no. Yeah. Yeah. But just like, I guess I got to play this Jeff, you know, and handed to him and then there's no votes for him. And it's just sort of like, yeah, you had an idol and you held on to it. And I guess there's there that's somewhat impressive. But in some ways it's like, eh, whatever. So if you would have played it on three, well, you can't, he can't he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't believe Billy. Yeah, I can't believe Billy came up with all that shit. I mean, just in general, the way that some of these, I mean, you know, uh, Christian got jobbed hard job. Yeah, totally. Like the way some of these twists have just absolutely boxed folks in. Yeah. Yeah. The period, like, you know, like it is tough. It's tough for me. I mean, we could have been a lot worse with some of the other twists that ended up going, okay. Like, yes, sorry on that tribal split. She could have literally been on a tribe that everybody had an advantage about her again. Yeah. Uh, yeah. You could argue that that it was the Aussie boot that really killed Sury and that in that sense she was still affected. Sorry to correct. No, correct. You're right. And she could have been even more affected. Had she found herself with different numbers during that swap, um, as I guess could anybody, but, uh, it seems like the beast, uh, what Mr. Beast, that one could have been horrible to just flipping a coin to exit. Yeah. Like that could have been real bad. It ended up being really great. But like, you're going to take a gamble like that. I guess it is Mr. Beast E to do that. So maybe whatever, but Sury flipping a coin and losing and going home, like, we would have been in an uproar. How many times do we think Mr. Beast would have had to come on to the show this season until he actually gets to give him another million dollars. Would it be like every episode and then everybody keeps going home? I think he just bounces. You just bounce, dude. Just be like, there's a lot out there and then you'd be like, sorry, we didn't, we didn't use you. I'm going to go spend there somewhere else. Ciao. Uh, okay. I, I agree with that. Uh, Ashley, Riley, Rizzo. Well, I have another thing to say about Rizzo. That's a question. Rizzo. Yeah. Well, he, he is 25 years old. Like he's not, like, everyone's like, he's a baby. He's a kid. He, he reads a lot younger. Yes. He reads even younger because do you know who the second youngest person on this cast was Tiffany? No. I'm pretty sure it's not Tiffany. No, it's not Tiffany. It was, it was D. It was D. She, she was 28 this season and she was 26 when she won. And at no point where you ever like, Oh, like in her winning season, you weren't like, D's a kid. They're never going to vote for a kid. She went to the end which is forever. She went to the end, but, but like, was that ever a discussion event? No, right? Like, was it ever like these, these two young, like, she's not going to get respect. Like, I feel like Rizzo has this issue of like, it's not just his age. Like, it's not just the age. It's the whole way that he kind of presents and which I actually love Rizzo. So I say this with like all the love. I feel like love is watching these two seasons. But it's like, we hate to have to be that big of a goofball and call yourself the Riz guide and like, spell your name and talk in the third person and stuff. And then also be like, people at the end are going to respect me enough to give me one million now two million dollars. And I'm going to put that to a million in a row of our IRA and then let it accumulate for my generational wealth for the kids down that like, we're not getting that speech from him at the end of it all. That's right. The man that makes the legend, the IRA God. Compound interests spell that. I agree. There is something too youthful about the way he presents himself and interacts with people that are older than him that is is is off putting in the sense. It's not off put. Like, I would have fun chit chatting with him. We're going to have fun with him next week at the finale. I have no doubt he's going to be hilarious. But to be like, this kid knows what to do with two million dollars is is hard for people. I think there is a way. I think Jason, you said it. I think if he gets to the end with Joe and Jonathan, then he has a fighting chance. If he puts himself in fire somehow when he is not known for that talent, I think that's bonus points for him that could go a long way. If he does not win, I would love to see him back for a third season. He'll be back. No. No. I want to see him back for a third season, but not before he's aged like 30, at least. Like I want to see years. Like a little bit more mature, Rizzo, like where we get like an arc where it's like, Oh, okay. He's grown up. I want to get in. I want to get away with the risk. God and people still call him like, that's what I want. I want it to be 50 saying Riz God and everybody rolling their eyes being like, Oh my gosh, dude. Oh, when all the Gen Z slang becomes like super dated and cringe. Yeah. That's what we want. That's what we want. The coach of his generation. Yes, he's generation. Ashley, you think you think Riz God has a chance at winning? Can you win? No, I don't think so. No, not whatsoever. No, I don't think that they vote for him to win. And it is just because of his youthful vibe. I think even when he hits 35, 50, 60, 70, he's still going to give that vibe, which is great. It's a great way to live his life. But I think for this season where it seems like everyone's running on storyline and just accolades from all over survivor seasons because they don't know Riz God's like past. And because he doesn't technically have a big past with survivor, in comparison to Seri who's been on for like five times, you know? Yeah. I just don't think that they could unless he would have, because at the very beginning of the season, he did show the fun Rizzo. You know what I mean? And I think by the time coach was booted out, he was giving people advice and being quiet and calm and showing the real Rizzo, I think it was just a little too late. And now everybody thinks he's too immature to spend the $2 million, but he'll spend the $2 million million in the exact same way that coach would spend the $2 million. I'm sure. So I just buy some old muscle cars. Yeah. And feathers. And jewellery. Yeah. I think that's accurate. I think it's a shame because Rizzo, he has a great resume. I think he has a fairly decent resume getting to the end here, but I do also believe that stating his case is going to be very difficult. Let's go to Joe. JC, can Joe win? Man, I think there's a very slim path, maybe slightly larger than Rizzo's. Larger than Rizzo's? Slightly depending on, again, his ability to connect with the jury, I think it would hinge on his personal story. And I think it would hinge on challenge beastliness. It would not hinge on spelling a hard Achilles heel that he has as we've seen now over two seasons. And it would definitely not hinge on anything like, you know, gameplay. I think it would be like, I played this game the right way I came in here as the person I am outside this game. And I remain that way. And that's how I play. related and if that narrative can connect with a jury, maybe he's got a shot, I think it's a very, very long shot. Okay. Dream run for him here in the finale. What's he got to do? You know, he got to sit next to, does he have to, he has to win out? I think he's got to win out and I think he's got to sit with Jonathan Tiff or Riz. Okay. Yeah. Riley? No, I think that's, I think that's pretty much great. I would think, I feel like Rizzo maybe has a slightly larger path, but I agree broadly that Joe, you know, both both the paths for these players are pretty narrow at this point. I think Joe winning out and then probably Joe putting himself in fire too, especially as the firefighter. Yeah. I don't think, I don't think that adds, I will give him a little bit, but I don't think he's getting the edge that Rizzo would get for making fire. Joe, everybody's like, yeah, of course he can make fire. He's a big, strong guy who's good at challenges, he's good at all the survivor stuff. He's probably fine at fire. It's almost like, I think it depends on who he goes to fire with. Yeah. Like, give himself a challenge. Okay. That adds more bonus points, but like if he's like, Rizzo, me and you make in fire that I don't think he's getting points for that, he might even get docked for that. You would have to correctly read like, who is basically winning in the eyes of the jury, right? If it's like, oh, Tiffany is about to steamroll the jury or Aubrey or, I don't imagine it would be Jonathan or Rizzo. But if it's something like that and he's like, I just have to take this person out myself, then I think he gets a lot of credit. If it's just like, hey, I'm just going to go up against Rizzo, just because then just because he's the easiest to beat. Yeah. No, I don't think that gets him that much credit. Unfortunately, can Joe win? Uh, yeah, he could. I'm not expecting him to get too many votes this time around, but I think in a perfect situation, I think he really could. Like if he was able to win immunity one more time and then orchestrate, okay, now I'm going to make it super impossible for him, but orchestrate a really big boot, like if he got Aubrey out or something, like someone who everyone really likes and, you know, would get more votes than him. And then during fire, he puts himself into fire, right? And then he beats Jonathan in fire. Okay. And then he goes against, uh, Tiff and Rizzo. Rizzo. Then I think that he would be able to get the votes. Okay. I was going to say, Joe, is there no chance at winning against any of these finalists? That's my, that was my opinion going in. Ashley, maybe you've swayed me a little bit, like maybe it's doable. My only whole poking would be that Aubrey's probably going to be the target anyways is Joe going to ever figure out a way where he's going to be the one that gets to take credit for that. Uh, because everybody would be just like, yep, of course, that's what we got to do. So I think that he's going to have a very hard time putting a stamp on these final moves as they will just make sense to the majority based on who wins the challenge. Uh, and I really think that I think he's the one in this five that everybody should take to the end. I think that's right. Yeah. That's for sure. Yeah. There are only a handful of players who went to Final Travel Council their first two seasons. I believe it's only Amanda, Russell, Michelle, and then it would be Joe. Is there anybody else who Natalie Anderson? Oh, yeah, Natalie Anderson, but you don't go back to back. Yes. Well, but she got voted out too in that in Winners of War, but I mean, yes, she was the Final Travel Council. But she got a little bit different, a little bit different. I guess Sandra is the big obvious mission that I missed there. Wow. But, you know, so if Joe makes it to Final Travel, he's like an interesting addition to that group, I feel like it, like, I wonder what it will be like if he does make it to Final Travel, um, after, you know, he was a one vote finalist his first season. And then if he makes it again and is a zero vote finalist or a one or two vote finalist or something like that, again, like, I don't know what that will be like for him, which I did want to talk about that because that's unique. That's come up in my brain a few times. Does that mean the person is good at survivor or really bad at survivor? Yeah, that's what I'm kind of getting at. Yeah. It's an interesting mix for Joe. I think in particular, I think he's got to, if he comes back again, or even at the end of the season, he's got to say something like, you know, what I learned, you know, I learned this season, I learned that you have to. There's a way to play the game and that the game is not life. You've got to hear something like that that you heard from people when they came back first, second chance or game changes or whatever. Yeah. The thing is, I don't think you'll ever hear that from Joe. Even if you did hear it, I think he would sink back into whatever he's doing. But I also think that his style of gameplay does get him deep in the game, gets him to the merge. And then at the merge, everybody realizes like, I don't know if he's going to get any votes in the end. So now people are just letting him skate through and letting his paranoia get to him and letting the people agitate him and him get in these arguments and whatever. And so I think that like in Rizzo, could easily be one of these characters too, where you're like, is he amazing at the game? Or is he so non-threatening that people just let him exist? I think Rizzo is much more intentional in the way that he gets to the end. We've seen it now over two seasons that he's very astute and his ability to read the game is, you know, miles better than Joe's. Joe has no idea what's going on around him at any given time. That said, I do agree with you. You're going to get blocked. You're going to get blocked on social media. I'm sorry. I mean, Joe does not read the game well, compared to me. But I do agree with you that I think that there is a perception of weakness from Rizzo that allows, that helps his ability to get deeper into the game. And that is the case too over multiple seasons. I do think like to Riley's point, he's a big move away. You got to have a move that you sign and that's the final piece for him that I think would make him a real front runner. He just doesn't have that. Yeah. You have to take the ball by the horns at one point where you, your game depended on that moment. Yeah. You really only have to do it once, like in the modern game. It's a lot of like, you know, people sort of flying under the radar and then if they fly for too long, then eventually you can, you know, you can kind of get him and it's, yeah, you really only need like one big move. You don't have to like control the game from beginning to end. Next player up, Aubrey. You got the leader in the clubhouse, I mean, I agree. She's dominated the last several episodes. There's conversations about that online, about the edit of her being this dominant because we see the edit shows her kind of in the mix of the conversations, but how many did she actually drive? I don't disagree with you, Jason. I think she's navigating beautifully from the bottom, from the middle. She's adjusted. She's pulled people in. She's pushed people out. So you believe she truly is the front runner. I mean, she has that kind of very confusing and I need to know more about what happened rivalry with Genevieve early that seemed based on like they saw each other beach and just hated the way you think there's Genevieve's new haircut. Yeah, I didn't just didn't like her, you know, but like won that and then, you know, navigated this really interesting early game where it almost seemed like she didn't want to be there, but then like steals herself and has, I think, played to your point from a middle position, keeping herself there really, really well and is more and more tightening her grip around the game. And the question is, and I think you put your finger on it is, everybody's got to know that it's got to be her next, like we need to figure out a way to get her out. Can she leap that last hurdle if she does? If she's there at the end, it's, it's, can she make the speech right? You know, it's a, it's a one foot pot, I think, for her at that point, considering how many times she's been on the makeup of the jury and the way she's played, I think she's, again, I think she's the favorite to win it. I think you're right about all of that. I honestly, I think her not winning the next challenge and still getting through is going to be more powerful than if she won the challenge. I think if she, like either way, she's going to get some points there. I think the jury is going to reward scars in history. That's going to be a big factor in their votes. And this list, she's the only one. with real history. Yeah, everyone else is new era. Yeah, she's the only one left to write who's not playing in her second season, just playing deathworth. Correct. And so I think that that will also be powerful. I think one thing that's strong with Aubrey here as I'm taking a step back is those people in the middle. A lot of times they don't win enough loyalty from the people they put on the jury for the jury to then reward them the money. I think Aubrey has been doing a good job of being in the middle, forging personal relationships, and then those people that go on the jury, it wasn't necessarily her fault or she could, you know, she doesn't have all the blood on her hands. And I think that that's a hard balance to find when you're playing the middle is like, how do I win the loyalty of the jury? And I didn't show them loyalty in the game. And I think she's done well where she hasn't really pissed anyone off as they exit. And so I think that that, again, I think it's a balance, I don't know if it's something she's doing intentional or if that's just her personality. But yeah, I think she's a front runner. Masterful jury management send off conversation with Suri where she's like, you know, we got to stop meeting like this, that whole thing, and then me writing her name, but being like, you were a legend. And what of a greatest ever to it? Like just, she's, she understands that she's close and she's, I think, trying to address that exact thing that you're talking about. Little better than how Ozzy did it being like, I'm so close, I can't wait to do this. I want this. And you probably don't. So just a heads up. Yeah. And that never goes well, that's, and it's, that's a tell is old as time, like so many people do that where they're just like, hey, the writing's on the wall for you. But if I could just get your jury vote, that'd be great. Ashley, thoughts on Aubrey? Can she not win? If she gets to the end, is there a way she doesn't win? Only if someone can take everything that she's ever done and take credit for it before she does. You know what I'm saying? If she's, she's about to talk and then Tiff goes, no, I did that. I did that. Maybe just maybe she won't be able to recover. And then she, but I think Aubrey has just, she's been doing such a good job. It's really strange how we were kind of introduced to her this season. I feel like she was just this big grump. Yeah. And she's still a grump. I guess. When you're on top and still in the game for $2 million, yeah, your grump is going to improve a little bit. It was weird. I don't remember what episode it was either. I don't know. They didn't show her a lot other than when she was angry at Genevieve and then when Genevieve was gone, then we didn't see her at all. And then suddenly she came back and then she's talking to everybody and she's eating weird things and having fun and she's a psycho. And so I just wish that we would have got a little bit more of that in the beginning. I think that in the end, I think that that will help her because she has a chip on her shoulder about survivor. She has her scars in her wounds. She feels good and bad about the show in general as most multi-time players feel. And I think she's probably the only one this season that came in with a real chip on her shoulder about the show in general and had some reservations. Everyone else was just excited and happy to be there and I think she was the one that was just like, you know, it's been a journey and it's not always cupcakes and roses. And I think past returning seasons, there were more people with chips on their shoulders. I even got accused by Lynn Spillman for having too big of a chip on my shoulder in round three and that I need to let go of it. And I was like, you don't even know what the fuck I've been through Lynn, like you have an idea. But like, yeah, stop. So I think in general, they steered away from casting people like that this season, but Aubrey got through and maybe it gave her a little bit of extra fighting power to edge. Yeah. A little bit of an edge. I mean, she's definitely the front runner, I feel. I'm just reading some of the edit. I felt like especially this past episode where she was referencing Co-wrong and how she went to the end with Michelle and that loss, Haunter and her, you know, she's, she's really focused on the goal of making sure she sits next to the right people at the end. You know, they've, they've done fake outs, they've done weird editing stuff before, especially in this 90 minute era. But that's-- You think Erica's winning? Erica, Erica might come in and win. That was the 60 minute era. We're in the 90 minute era now. 90 minute era now. But it's, no, that, that's the felt very like on the nose to me. Like if I'm looking at the edit a little bit, I'm like, I see Aubrey's winner at it. We kind of talked about this last night, but like, you know, when Jonathan licked the rice, I was like, oh, I don't know if Jonathan's winning now. I don't know if you leave the licking the rice in if he's your winner. I think if I'm on the jury and somebody comes back and he's like, he stuck his bare tongue into the communal rice. He's like, hold up. Wait, what? And then you're like, we, I don't know if we can vote for him. Like, I can't. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Aubrey doesn't have any moments like that. I feel like I mean, she was a grump early on and whatnot, but now it has been every confessional is about her end game and her laser focus on that final travel council on who she's going to sit next to and how she's going to get rid of the threats. You know, it feels like the story of a winner to me. But she still has to get there. I mean, I don't know. She's not exactly a challenge beast and if they see that, maybe she's that person that goes out fifth and whoever gets her out, you know, and gets the credit for that, maybe they then leap into the driver's seat here and become the winner. So, I don't know, there's a lot of survivor left to play. There is. That's the thing. I mean, we talked to Rick on exit interviews and he was like, everybody would have voted for me, but there's still game left. Like there's a lot of game left to burn bridges, to piss off the jury, to wow the jury. Like it can go either direction, but so many players are like, I would have won it. I'd just gotten to the end. It's like, you would have to make three more moves, which means at least three people are pissed and how pissed are they and how well do you navigate that? JC, we got Tiffany up next. Thoughts on Tiffany. Can she win? How does she do it? I think it's somewhere between Riz and Joe in terms of odds. I think if there is a kind of Erica shadow puppet master narrative that she can pull together and to Ashley's point, talk first and say, I did this, I did this, I did this before anybody can rebut, I think if she can hit that, just right, there's a slim chance. But I think it's slim and it would involve Aubrey getting knocked out in this final tribal. I believe that she is second to Aubrey in favorites to win. I think Aubrey's clear frontrunner has the clearest path, the easiest is not the word because maybe she's a bigger target at this point. But if she gets to the end, she is the clearest to win in my eyes. Tiffany being second to Aubrey as the clearest victor from this final five. If she can get to the end without Aubrey, I think she wins. I do think that Aubrey in the end will be able to steal them, not steal the moves but take credit. I think Tiffany will have a hard time taking credit for some of that. Also if you put people on the jury that actually believe that they did that move and you're taking credit for it, that's very bad, that's like even worse. That's worse than stealing, trying to steal it from a finalist because the finalist is just a he said, she said game, but if a jury member is like, no, that was my move. The whole jury's pissed. They're like, you're taking credit for a move that we're not even in it for the like that's tricky. I think she needs to steer away from that and just lean on the fact that she's been a target. She's won challenges. She played from the bottom. She was on the outs a lot. She always found her way. People that were close to her constantly exited the game. She figured out a way to stay put. I think that as long as she goes with that and gets rid of Aubrey, she has the best likelihood of winning. Yeah, she's got to get rid of Aubrey. She could also argue too that I knew who should have been going home and nobody. I correctly identified targets throughout this end run. Did they go no, but I knew who they were unlike others. Right. Tiffany, is your winner pick? She is. And I have said everything about her positively, of course, because she's amazing. I have a bit of a challenge beast, but yeah, I feel like when it comes to TIFF versus Aubrey, it would make the f***. final vote a little more difficult, would it split up more of the votes if they don't have like, if they have Jonathan on the, on the bench with them, how many votes are going to get split up from Tiffany? I feel like Tiffany's issue is that she is a, she's, I would vote for her immediately, but some people are still on the iffy if there's Aubrey, if there's Jonathan. So she has to get rid of one of them and then take the credit for that immediately, but like you said, she can't take the credit too much because like Jonathan thinks that he was involved for like most of the, the votes. So she has like a tough thing to, to fight against. I think she has a great resume though. She's, she's great at challenges. She has so many connections. She was able to navigate through, through her name being called out very many different times and everyone knows that she is a, a big challenger. She just has to make one big final move and she has to win immunity. This coming up episodes, she doesn't get booted out because she is way too powerful in this group. So she's gotta, she's just one more move. I do think some of her, you know, she builds a case off of some of the challenge wins, especially if she goes on a run here at the end. The fact that Joe is the target. Yes, where she's the target and she's going up against guys who, who we know are big challenge threats in Joe and Jonathan. That becomes very impressive for her. You know, she were able to sell, I want to challenge this past episode where everyone was conspiring against me. Right. They were trying to help each other and they couldn't be feeling consumable. I'd be going to be by myself. She has like an underdog narrative that she could really sell, especially like, I don't think she wants to say it this way necessarily, but she was kind of the most like, oh, I wasn't expecting her to get cast choice among this whole group of people. Sort of a bit of just under the radar. And I think not looked at, I mean, she probably came in with one of the lowest threat levels of anybody, but also like one of the lowest, like resumes of anyone. She went out eighth in her first season. And I think we said that is everybody else, so all the new era people who played once, they all made it further than her. She was the one who'd made it the least amount of days total out of anybody on the cast coming into the season. Yes. And so I think there's something there where it's like, you all just, I mean, you don't want to say it in this like accusatory way, but like I was underestimated. And I had to build a resume from scratch and nothing. And I had to beat people at challenges. And I had to, you know, make these different alliances and connections and whatnot. I think she could make a powerful case of, yeah, it's, yeah. I think that's also why we started seeing this episode where it was like, oh, she actually is a big threat to win. Right. And people started targeting her and would have been interesting. If she hadn't won, if she hadn't won the immunity, would she have gone home? Would Syri still be in the game? That's crazy to me. I mean, it seemed like it. Aubrey was like crying or if anyone immunity. And even Joe was like, whatever plan you have, you can rest assured that that person will win immunity. So we got a little bit of that. And that does make me think that like, okay, like that's great. That's so strong of Syri. If Tiffany would have exited first and they both would have been up for votes, like mind boggling. Very funny, very funny moment when Syri was to Riz was like, well, what if she wins? Oh, don't worry about it. Wait, don't worry about it. Why? Oh, she knew immediately. Yeah, we talked to her ex-appressant. She yeah, clocked it immediately. Okay. Jason, our final finalist here, Jonathan, can he win? What's he going to do? I think he's got a chance. And maybe not as big as a chance as Tiffany's, but comparable. And I think to Ashley's point, he's got some support on that jury. Yeah, Chrissy, coach, Colby, maybe, Colby, maybe. Colby's not on the jury. Oh, Colby's not on the jury. Yeah, sorry. Sorry. Maybe. Sorry, buddy. Maybe Stephanie, but like, yeah. But the first two for sure, I think you have to think would be amenable to Jonathan. And I think he could make a case that something like I engineered the Aussie blind side was heavily involved in that. I was targeting Syri. I'm the biggest guy challenged threat in the game and have managed to slip through post merge without any votes against me. I think when you add to that, the kind of challenge beast immunity case, he's more his like strategic focus this season, which has been a new part of his game. It's ability to reach out. He talked to everybody on the beach. I think he's got a shot. And I think I and even more dangerous to me is to Ashley's point, like, who's going to vote for him? When you bring him, if you decide to bring him, what's that going to do to the vote count? I think that's something you need to think about. You know, the other competitors are going to need to think about because I think he's got maybe to sure votes if he's there. Yeah. When you're looking at who to take to the end or who you want in the end or who you want to eliminate next year at this final five, you're looking at the jury and you're saying, who has whose votes? And whoever has the most, that's who you target. So you look at each jury member, you say, who are they voting for? Who are they voting for? It's all speculative, but you can kind of see it a little bit or try to figure it out. And so he may be one of those people that people are looking at being like, he has a number of votes on the jury already, taking to the end could be dangerous. But I agree. I think he has a shot to win it. I think one thing with Jonathan that I find interesting is people also don't take him serious, much like Rizzo, but for different reasons. He's not getting ready. He's not getting praises. He's not getting punch calls in his punch card every time that he's part of a move. People, and I don't know if that's his demeanor. I don't know if it's his, their perception of him from the last time he played, but for whatever reason, he's going to have a hard time convincing that jury that he deserves credit for the things he's doing. And so I think that will be his challenge sitting at the end there, but I do think if he gets to the end, he's getting some votes for sure. He's not a lower case go getting dragged to the end, Riley. Yeah, I completely agree with that. I think that Jonathan is playing an underrated, it's not a perfect game, but an underrated strategic game. And that if he, if he like weighed about a hundred pounds less and had a different voice from a different part of the country, I think that'd be much more apparent to people. I think it would be like, oh, he's made some moves. He's like New Jersey accent, New Jersey accent to like a hundred and 160 pounds. Yeah. Like a normal body type. But instead, I mean, like, I feel like people look at him and they're just like, ah, he's just like the big muscle head. And that maybe was true his first season. I don't think it's been true this season. And while I don't think he's played a totally perfect game, I think he's sometimes been a little bit too, like grading with certain people and kind of like pushes himself around a little like some of the social game. He could like saw like a sand down some of the edges a little bit. I do think it's, it's actually like a pretty impressive game. And he just still doesn't get quite as much credit as maybe he deserves just because of similar to Rizzo, like you're saying, it's like just a way that he comes across an appearance and demeanor or whatever that puts a certain idea of who this person is in people's heads that, you know, I think he deserves a little more credit than that. But yeah, as far as could he win, um, yeah, he definitely could win if he sits next to the right people here and engineers then game correctly. We, I agree. I think he has some votes on the jury already. You're saying sit next to the right people, but you're not going to tell us who you're going to make me ask who, who does he have to sit next to? Well, let's start with Joe, who I think we've been pretty, pretty down on Joe the most guaranteed. We haven't been down on Joe is a nice guy. He invited me to his party last year. Yes. Joe, we look, I'm sure we'll get along great. We're going to see you next week. But I do believe, do you, is between the four of us, is Joe getting to the end just because he's Joe, is that? Yes, Ashley says, yes, he's definitely in the end. I think so. You'd bet your full portfolio on Joe getting to the final tribal council. But I'm not that my full part, fully on anything. 10x for 10x. For $2, I vote for, I'm going to say Joe's definitely going to make it to the end. Joe's a finalist. because he made it this far and it's interesting how he did it because everyone constantly was saying how he was knowing them and yes like you said before Joe's a very sweet guy and everything he's just not the best survivor player so how does that equate to him getting this far because he is Joe and who he is as a person and who he is as a survivor player or two different things so people want to keep him around because he's cool but they also want to keep him around because he's not that he's not going to get the votes that he got in the finals. He's just very predictable. That's I think the most accurate way to say it. Joe remains who Joe is and therefore you can pretty much tell what Joe is going to do the things Joe is not going to like what things you can tell Joe that will trigger him and what things you can involve him in that he will be, you know, an enthusiastic part of. Right. Right. We talked to Devons for exit present. He said that at one point early in the season he went to Joe and said I want to work with you and I will be honorable to you. Let me do the dirty work for both of us. I will be dishonorable for us both so you don't have to be dishonorable and I will be honorable towards you and Joe did not like that. He did not like that at all. So, no. Okay. Who else does Jonathan need to sit by? It's Joe and who else for? I think you'll let me off the hook. I thought you had enough crosstalk here that I was going to slide back. No, slide back. We're circle. I mean, probably Tiffany over Aubrey, I do wonder some of these players that like, gosh, I wish we still had like so and so around. Maybe like an Emily or somebody who felt like still there. Oh, yeah. Could be Rizzo. That's right. I think Jonathan's clearest path is with Joe. If it's Jonathan Rizzo, Joe, then I think that I think Jonathan actually probably wins that. Yeah. But it's also Rizzo's clearest path to victory too. Like that three sub in the end without Aubrey or Tiffany in my opinion, our Rizzo and Jonathan's best chance at winning. In that setup, do we? I think if Rizzo frames it right, he had some good connections with coach. And of course, three, I do wonder if if Rizzo gets enough votes to tip things in that format because I think coach, I think coach may be amenable to the kid. I think so too. I also think but is he more amenable to that than to Jonathan who was an honorable integrity guy because I do also believe you go back to Ponderosa. There are going to be some louder voices. There are going to be some more respected voices on that jury. Coach is maybe going to be one of those first certain demographic of Jury there. And I believe Surrey will have a lot of input on the jury. And so I think that like who are those people voting for and how much influence will they have on other people. But I do think I think Rizzo versus Jonathan with Joe is Rizzo and Jonathan's best chance at winning this game. Yeah, I agree. I think if Surrey is a strong advocate for Rizzo, that could pump up his chances. If he really says, you know, we were we were a locked step. He kind of saved my bacon in the mid game. I think if that happens, maybe you see Rizzo's chances improve and perhaps dramatically improve. I agree with that. I think I think that's accurate. And I also think that that I think that's something that maybe people in the game understand, but fans and listeners of our podcasts don't fully understand. You need a strong advocate that is respected on the jury to get jury votes. I know when I won blood versus water, there was a lot of discourse of if I was too big of an asshole to give a million dollars to and the consensus was I played far and away the best game. And if you don't want to look like a chump, you should vote for Tyson because he did steer this game and got to the end even when people wanted him out. And so I think if you have someone in your corner like that, then I think that's so powerful. And maybe it's not even it's not even talked about. It might not even be on people's minds. But I think like if I've got someone who's everyone loves, who loves me, get them on the jury. Get them on the jury. Like that's in these returning seasons, even more so because you've got even deeper friendships and bonds and connections with people. If you can get somebody that you absolutely adore or that absolutely adores you on the jury and they are respected voice in the survivor community, that's 50% of your work is done. So do you think, I mean, obviously this person, I don't think carries the weight of Suri because nobody does. But the opposite of this for Rizzo was the way that he got Aussie out and kind of fumbled that like, oh, you said too much. I'll explain later. Exchange at tribal council. Is that going to have Aussie being like, do not give it to this kid who's a snake and whatever else on the jury? And famously, Aussie does admit credit for coach not winning South Pacific. Right. He's always in the jury. Yeah, before, not to take anything away from Sophie who is a friend of the podcast here. But I do believe that Aussie would try to poison the jury against Rizzo. And I do believe that Suri would be like, no, take a pause, take a step back Aussie. I don't know if she would be powerful enough to convince Aussie to vote for Rizzo. But I think she would stop Aussie from poisoning the jury against Rizzo heavily. So yeah, but you never know. And I get both sides. Like, I've been in Aussie's position was like, fuck those guys, dude, fuck them. They didn't need to do that in that moment. Like, why would they? And then the jury members like, yeah, no, you're right. That's stupid. And then like, that's just you like, I don't know. There's a lot to it. It's like, you're you're trying on the jury if you have beef with someone you're just trying to take it away from them. And it's like, I get that. And so like, I don't want to fault anybody for any feelings they're having after getting eliminated from the game. So it goes both ways. Okay. Jason, looking at this list of people, let's make some predictions. This is called Riley's Reads, but I'm just leading into it because we did this last week too. But we're gonna do it again with Jason here. What do you have for your prediction? Who's winning the next challenge? Who's winning the immunity out of these five is going to be safe? Is it going to be the, is it going to be the, what do we think it's going to be? The ball, the ball on the panel. We voted on it. Yeah, we voted on it. I think I voted on the Plinco ball one. Plinco ball? Plinco ball. Not the spiny one. The emotion, the emotion. And then I forget with the third, I voted emotion, but then it asked for my email so that I didn't end up voting. Okay, so I think, I think Jonathan will go home next. Okay. So he doesn't win the challenge. Who do you think wins the challenge? I don't think he wins the challenge. I think I think it's going to be Tiff who wins the challenge. Okay. And that will sign her ticket going forward. That is my prediction. Okay. And then, so that happens. And then Jonathan's out, I think who wins the challenge and who makes fire, if fire making is a thing, which I'm kind of feeling like it's going to be, but it could not. Well, Rizzo, of course, will have his, he already played his idol. It's gone now. I think it's going to be Rizzo versus Joe fire. And our final will be Aubrey Tiffany Joe. Okay. I can see that. I, I don't know why, but as we've been talking, I'm just like, I imagine Aubrey, I think she just won some final immunities or close to final immunities and feeling like for some reason, she wins this next immunity. But my hope would be that Rizzo, oh, Rizzo can't win it and play his idol on somebody else. That would be, that would be powerful. I mean, it'd be kind of, you give the necklace to somebody else. Oh, yeah, that's what he should do. I mean, that's my, that's a great move. That is a great move. Rizzo. And then, yes, I guess like, if he wins his first challenge ever, he wins his first challenge ever, gives the necklace to protect, plays his idol. Damn, that's good. Or doesn't play his idol, keeps it as a souvenir knowing that it's just going to be wasted because nobody's going to vote for him anyways. So he's kind of just like, this is perfect. I'm going to keep it. It's extra, I think it keeps his idol in this moment as a souvenir. It's more powerful for the jury to watch that than to actually play it and get no votes against him. I feel like he's got to control a vote. The only problem would be in this scenario, he would be doing it just for like the move. There's not like a person there where it's like, oh, yeah, I can see why Rizzo, he's been super tall. and so on. So I think he protects Joe to get him to the end, give the necklace to Joe. And then, you know, play his idol and whatever else it makes Joe look like an even lower case or goat. It does. And it also Joe can win challenges. So maybe it wins Joe over enough to take Rizzo to the end. If that is the case, the next round, there's strategy to it. We finally talked ourselves into Rizzo's winning end game here. Yeah, the winning end game for Rizzo. I agree. If he, if he plays it right without tipping his hand at all, gives the necklace to somebody Joe would be great. Flipped controls the vote that way. I mean, that's a move that you can sign your name on. Yes. And keeps the idol as a souvenir and lets everyone know it afterwards. Or how about how about it doesn't even play it like he's actually I buried it. I buried it somewhere on the island for future cast members to find. Yeah, a part of survivor history is in the islands are now. Yeah. When it comes back for survivor 60 ago, and I'll dig up that idol. It's still active. A lot of years later, multi like generational play, where it's just like, yeah, okay. And go out and play, but I'm going to hide all my idols. And then when I come back for a seventh time, I'm going to find them and use them. And if he does find it and doesn't use it and gets voted out, then it boomerings over to Genevieve. Yes, finally for her to play. Finally pays off. Yes. Okay. Well, I think we pretty much described the most exciting things that could possibly happen in the finale. So set your expectations accordingly for what you actually see on screen. Jason, where can people find you if they want to hear more of your voice? And what have you got going on? Listen to or watch, wait a second podcast right here at the rear. If you like conspiracy stuff and strange news, check it out on YouTube or on Spotify. I've got another podcast called X-ray vision where we talk about nerd stuff. Check it out. Conspiracy theories. What you talk about most recently? Honduras gate, which is the alleged conspiracy to destabilize certain Latin American regimes that involves the recent pardon of the former president of Honduras who was going to jail for a long, long time on cocaine charges, and then was mysteriously pardoned. Okay. Of course. I will listen. Jason, I'm going to actually download it right now. And everyone go ahead and you can follow Jason on social medias on Spotify, YouTube. He's everywhere. He's everywhere all at once. Thanks. Thanks so much for having me on. This was so fun. Yeah, it was fun for us to finally our past crossed. I wondered when it's Jason. I've been here five years. I wondered when we were going to finally get you on this thing. So now you can have any time any time. I'm back in the fold. I'm happy to come on any time. I love on survivor. We'll be back next week with Jason. Thank you, Riley and Ashley. And we will see you on finale night. Thank you all for tuning in, like, subscribe, whatever, share with your friends, or do none of it, whatever you want to do. We don't want to really be too aggressive, but we do want to show off to our friends that were cool. So any little bit helps. Till then, see ya.